We don't have to live in a post-industrial society
Robert Henderson
Letter sent to Telegraph
Sir,
Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
extractive industries.
The idea that this is impossible and we are locked forever in what Mr
Warner lazily calls "a post-industrial, service-based economy" is
demonstrably untrue. He might as well say the Germany could not have
re-industrialised after the war or that countries can no longer
industrialise from scratch. To make the switch, all that Britain needs
is a government with the will to embrace a judicious protectionism to
protect British industry, especially strategic industries, and an end
to mass immigration. The former will allow industries to survive and the
latter will see many unemployed Britons able to get work.
It is worth adding that financial services only represents a small part
of the British economy (estimates vary between 7-12%)and the amount of
tax paid by the City is minute when compared with the overall tax take,
�32.5 billion out of a total tax take of approximately �550 bn((Open
Europe 28 7 2009 Government reveals City firms contributed �32.5bn in
tax revenue in a year). Nor would Britain lose the large majority of its
financial service sector if stricter rules are imposed on banks. We
would lose the "chancer" side of financial services but retain the sound
"boring" parts.
Yours sincerely,
Robert Henderson
Telegraph
We can't afford to drive the City away
It's the High-street banks which have cost us billions - not
international financiers, says Jeremy Warner.
�
By Jeremy Warner
Published: 6:20PM GMT 18 Dec 2009
Comments 56 | Comment on this article
Andy Haldane, the Bank of England's head of financial stability, is no
doubt a decent and well-meaning chap. He should, however, be ashamed of
his remarks this week to the effect that allowing the City to migrate
overseas might be a price worth paying for a more stable financial
system.
This might indeed be a reasonable point of view if it were true that the
mass of high-value-added professional services and
international-money-market activities that make up the backbone of the
City were to blame for the estimated �850 billion British taxpayers
have been forced to provide to support the payments system. Plainly, it
is unacceptable for taxpayers to be carrying such a burden. It also
seems unlikely that the country could afford another such bail-out.
But to think that the City is the problem, and that to encourage its
exodus provides the solution, is to misunderstand the nature of the
banking crisis and its causes. What's more, deliberately to drive high
finance from our shores without any obvious plan for what might replace
this dynamo of wealth and tax seems an almost wantonly destructive act
of "year zero" economic vandalism, which the country will spend decades
regretting....
. By lumping all finance together and blaming the bankers
for underlying errors in economic policy that have been disguised by the
boom - unaffordable public spending among them - the politicians and
their footsoldiers in supervision threaten to undermine one of Britain's
most important industries and sources of tax revenue. Supporters of this
bizarrely destructive policy gaze starry-eyed into the future and
proclaim that once finance is killed off, Britain will return to the
inventiveness and enterprise of our forefathers, and that the country
will be reborn as the manufacturing powerhouse of old. Oh please. Many
of the City's brightest and best are not Brits, but talented foreigners
attracted to London by its wealth of opportunity. Their departure is our
loss. As for alternative sources of wealth, employment and tax
generation, there is scant evidence of the hoped-for renaissance in
manufacturing, or indeed anything else that might act as a substitute.
For better or worse, Britain's future is as a post-industrial,
service-based economy. We took that route a long time ago and cannot
turn back the clock. Please let's stop dumping on an industry where we
have key advantages over others before it is too late.
--
Robert Henderson
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
abelard
<phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Letter sent to Telegraph
>
>Sir,
>
>Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>extractive industries.
>
>The idea that this is impossible and we are locked forever in what Mr
>Warner lazily calls "a post-industrial, service-based economy" is
>demonstrably untrue.
it's also demonstrably economically illiterate...
the vast part of the economy remain even not, internal
trading
the problems in the uk have very little to do with 'recession'
and everything to do with 17 years of socialism aggravated
by 'new' labour incompetence
rest unread as it is doubtless still more of the leftist scribbler's
myth making
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smurf
To make the switch, all that Britain needs
> is a government with the will to embrace a judicious protectionism to
> protect British industry, especially strategic industries, and an end
> to mass immigration. The former will allow industries to survive and
> the latter will see many unemployed Britons able to get work.
>
All hail the Austen Allegro. Who, do you think we would be selling the
products we make to, if we put up protective barriers?
DVH
"Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xtKtViaV...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>
> Letter sent to Telegraph
>
> Sir,
>
> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
> extractive industries.
That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
This obsession with making things is weird. We're now at a stage where it's
the Chinese who kill themselves in factory explosions while the UK has moved
to warm offices where nobody so much as breaks a fingernail. But the
dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of production lines and
mining. Arbeit macht frei.
Robert Henderson
writes
The domestic manufacturing sector would be much stronger because of
increased domestic consumption and that would allow development of
products which would sell throughout the world. RH
Lou Ravi
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:07:33 +0000, Robert Henderson
> <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Letter sent to Telegraph
>>
>> Sir,
>>
>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing
>> and extractive industries.
>>
>> The idea that this is impossible and we are locked forever in what Mr
>> Warner lazily calls "a post-industrial, service-based economy" is
>> demonstrably untrue.
>
> it's also demonstrably economically illiterate...
> the vast part of the economy remain even not, internal
> trading
Speaka da inglish?
> rest unread as it is doubtless still more of the leftist scribbler's
> myth making
Well snip it then fuckwit.
abelard
<j.mu...@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
>abelard wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:07:33 +0000, Robert Henderson
>> <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Letter sent to Telegraph
>>>
>>> Sir,
>>>
>>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing
>>> and extractive industries.
>>>
>>> The idea that this is impossible and we are locked forever in what Mr
>>> Warner lazily calls "a post-industrial, service-based economy" is
>>> demonstrably untrue.
>>
>> it's also demonstrably economically illiterate...
>> the vast part of the economy remain even not, internal
>> trading
>
>Speaka da inglish?
notta whana rush anddone edit
i notices it but as it's hatstand and he won unerstan anyways
i didnat bother
but for you
>> the vast part of the economy remains, as it is internal
>> trading....not export exchanges
approx
>> rest unread as it is doubtless still more of the leftist scribbler's
>> myth making
>
>Well snip it then fuckwit.
i leved it justin kase....imm just two polite
some idiot may clime some in the deetriteus is meningful
Maria
> Robert Henderson wrote:
> To make the switch, all that Britain needs
>> is a government with the will to embrace a judicious protectionism to
>> protect British industry, especially strategic industries, and an end
>> to mass immigration. The former will allow industries to survive and
>> the latter will see many unemployed Britons able to get work.
>>
>
> All hail the Austen Allegro. Who,
To be fair, that was a car produced by a nationalised 'business'.
Fords and Vauxhalls were eternally popular - still are, and Honda moved
production here because we are good at making cars (if not that great at
designing them).
Maria
> "Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:xtKtViaV...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> Letter sent to Telegraph
>>
>> Sir,
>>
>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>> extractive industries.
>
> That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
>
> This obsession with making things is weird. We're now at a stage where it's
> the Chinese who kill themselves in factory explosions while the UK has moved
> to warm offices where nobody so much as breaks a fingernail.
But offices in themselves produce nothing much, unless they are
technical offices or something.
>But the
> dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of production lines and
> mining. Arbeit macht frei.
>
>
What are people like my husband going to do without production lines?
DVH
"Maria" <falli...@holeinshoe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9fGdnX3UaoE5YN3W...@bt.com...
> DVH wrote:
>> "Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:xtKtViaV...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>> Letter sent to Telegraph
>>>
>>> Sir,
>>>
>>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>>> extractive industries.
>>
>> That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
>>
>> This obsession with making things is weird. We're now at a stage where
>> it's the Chinese who kill themselves in factory explosions while the UK
>> has moved to warm offices where nobody so much as breaks a fingernail.
>
> But offices in themselves produce nothing much, unless they are technical
> offices or something.
They produce hot air.
If somebody's willing to pay for that hot air, why complain?
>
>>But the dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of production
>>lines and mining. Arbeit macht frei.
> What are people like my husband going to do without production lines?
I wouldn't know. If you can speak and walk, you have transferable skills.
Maria
> "Maria" <falli...@holeinshoe.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9fGdnX3UaoE5YN3W...@bt.com...
>> DVH wrote:
>>> "Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:xtKtViaV...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>>> Letter sent to Telegraph
>>>>
>>>> Sir,
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>>>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>>>> extractive industries.
>>> That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
>>>
>>> This obsession with making things is weird. We're now at a stage where
>>> it's the Chinese who kill themselves in factory explosions while the UK
>>> has moved to warm offices where nobody so much as breaks a fingernail.
>> But offices in themselves produce nothing much, unless they are technical
>> offices or something.
>
> They produce hot air.
In more ways than one!
>
> If somebody's willing to pay for that hot air, why complain?
It can only last so long without something to back it up...
>
>>> But the dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of production
>>> lines and mining. Arbeit macht frei.
>> What are people like my husband going to do without production lines?
>
> I wouldn't know. If you can speak and walk, you have transferable skills.
>
>
You haven't met my husband!
There are two types of people in my experience - those like myself who
are dynamic and always wanting to learn or try something new, and those
who grow up and settle into a pattern, always reluctant to move on and
preferring security. IMHO the majority of the people are the latter,
which might explain why whips and terrible punishments have figured
quite often in the world of work...
Maria
NB and people like him are often quite contented because they have
everything they need, while people like me are not...
Saracene
> In message <7qbl3hF19...@mid.individual.net>, Smurf <sm...@smurf.com>
> writes
>
> >Robert Henderson wrote:
> > To make the switch, all that Britain needs
> >> is a government with the will to embrace a judicious protectionism to
> >> protect British industry, especially strategic industries, and an end
> >> to mass immigration. The former will allow industries to survive and
> >> the latter will see many unemployed Britons able to get work.
>
> >All hail the Austen Allegro. Who, do you think we would be selling the
> >products we make to, if we put up protective barriers?
>
> The domestic manufacturing sector would be much stronger because of
> increased domestic consumption and that would allow development of
> products which would sell throughout the world. RH
>
> --
Robert Peffers
"Saracene" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb7af64c-3e61-4dd1...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
the MOD representative in an electronics factory. Some of the people on that
shop floor were very well qualified. Mind you it was not mass production but
one of prototype stuff.
--
Auld Bob
Robert Henderson
writes
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>> extractive industries.
>
>That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
>
>This obsession with making things is weird.
Only to those who worship the god Market. RH
>We're now at a stage where it's the Chinese who kill themselves in
>factory explosions while the UK has moved to warm offices where nobody
>so much as breaks a fingernail.
And how long do you think that will sustain us for? RH
>But the dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of
>production lines and mining. Arbeit macht frei.
>
--
abelard
still you did get in your story of the olden days...
even though by your own admission it was totally irrelevant
story of your life mister piffler
abelard
<phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <rI10n.44036$pV.3...@newsfe23.ams2>, DVH <d...@vhvhvhvh.com>
>writes
>>> Jeremy Warner asks "If the City flees, what will take its place?" (18
>>> December). The answer is simple: we can re-build our manufacturing and
>>> extractive industries.
>>
>>That's right, send everyone down the pit again.
>>
>>This obsession with making things is weird.
>Only to those who worship the god Market. RH
does your claim apply to producing a single track or book
that sells millions
or design work for new engine parts?
or floating a loan for billions?
>>We're now at a stage where it's the Chinese who kill themselves in
>>factory explosions while the UK has moved to warm offices where nobody
>>so much as breaks a fingernail.
>And how long do you think that will sustain us for? RH
you seem to be asking silly/dubious questions
can you produce enough food and housing seem more relevant....
you can build houses from the mud/earth....
and hydroponics is steadily developing...
what is you fetish with 'manufacturing'?
or is your fetish more around 'exports'
regards
>>But the dinosaurs want to return us to some Fordist heaven of
>>production lines and mining. Arbeit macht frei.
>>
--
Lou Ravi
I thought they had, judging by many posts here.
Robert Henderson
<falli...@holeinshoe.co.uk> writes
>You haven't met my husband!
>There are two types of people in my experience - those like myself who
>are dynamic and always wanting to learn or try something new, and those
>who grow up and settle into a pattern, always reluctant to move on and
>preferring security. IMHO the majority of the people are the latter,
>which might explain why whips and terrible punishments have figured
>quite often in the world of work...
Such differences in personality are an essential part of the working of
a social animal. In the case of humans, a society could not exist if
everyone was a chief and no one an Indian. Moreover, most must be
Indians in a sophisticated because such a society rests on large-scale
co-operative effort. RH
Robert Peffers
"abelard" <abel...@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:d8r3k5d28h926k5va...@4ax.com...
assumes that using graduate Electronics Engineers on a shop floor producing
one-off cutting edge electronic equipments for the defence industry is, "Ye
olde days". Quite obviously the poor dear is rather confused. Mind you those
people were able to cope with English grammar and logical thought processes.
--
Auld Bob
jo...@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk
(Original note vanished so regenerated)
Warner's pretentious 'post-industrial economy' or the 'tertiary
economic sector', as Nulab and rubbish economists know it, follows
from ....
1) Dig the coal to smelt the steel.
2) Use the steel to make things and drive a two century industrial
revolution.
3) Sit back, polish our fingernails and offer advice to each other.
Not so.
Item #3 is anathema to Darwin, entropy, the laws of physics and the
very nature of the universe.
#3 in isolation can only function if *all* our services and expertise
are sold to foreigners. If not we run a zero-sum game, as indeed is
partly happening at this time.
Yes. Making things ourselves is difficult, expensive, generates low
profit margins and can be dirty and dangerous. The payback is that
wealth is created within our own borders and via due process can then
profitably support some (what are essentially parasitic) service
activities.
More apt is Überlebenskampf !
abelard
<peff...@btinternet.com> wrote:
i see you've now tried to find another excuse to sneak in
some tosh about your glory days in the 16th century...
why not just join a fiction group piffler...and relax
they' be impressed i'm certain sure
do the 'graduate electronics engineers' you were 'using' get the
dog in the end?