Atlanta Newspaper Article About Nader/Greens
James Ogle
The following copy ran in the Q & A regular column April 9, 1996 in the
Atlanta
Journal Constitution, largest newspaper in southern U.S.A.:
Question: Ralph Nader is involved with the Green Party and his name is
mentioned in articles as being on some ballots in presidential
primaries. What is the Green Party? Will Nader be on the ballot in the
November election?
Answer: The Green Party USA, headquartered in Chicago, has blossomed
from single -issue battles such as nuclear power plant safety and returnable
bottle referendums to become a growing political force as the voice of the
American anti-nuclear and environmental movement. Greens, as they're
known, have become a potent force worldwide, with members serving in the
parliaments of Germany, Belgium, Finland, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland
and Green parties operating under various names everywhere from Canada to
Australia. Basic tenets are ecology consciousness, non-violence and
decentralization, said Randy Toler, national director of the Green Party
USA. Nader has declared that the Republican and Democratic Parties are
becoming alike, "so I'm going to do my part to initiate and help the
Green Party develop an alternative political movement." Nader is on the
ballot as the Green candidate in at least five states. In a recent
C-SPAN interview, he said he is "probably" going to take his candidacy
all the way to Nov. 5th.
Atlanta Journal Constitution
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA Parliament Email: usa...@netcom.com Usenet: alt.politics.elections
FEC ID# C00304766 Phone: (800) 369-USA-1 Prime Minister: John Renna
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Ladasky
and James Ogle, rejected by the California Green Party in 1994, does all
he can to promote Randy.
Incidentally, James Ogle is also the winner of the March 1996
Usenet Kook of the Month award.
Atlanta residents should phone their newspaper immediately, and
set the record straight.
--
Unique ID : Ladasky, John Joseph Jr.
Title : BA Biochemistry, U.C. Berkeley, 1989 (Ph.D. perhaps 1998???)
Location : Stanford University, Dept. of Structural Biology, Fairchild D-105
Keywords : immunology, music, running, Green
Cris Moore
Luckily, he said something coherent to the press this time.
If you're interested in the Green Party, contact the national Clearingouse
at gp...@igc.apc.org, or (607) 756-4211.
- Cris Moore, New Mexico Green Party
p.s. another Green just got elected --- to the City Council of
Bisbee, Arizona!
James Ogle
John Ladasky (lad...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Fascinating, poorly-researched article. Randy Toler is a fraud,
: and James Ogle, rejected by the California Green Party in 1994, does all
: he can to promote Randy.
John, you didn't do your math. The majority of Greens voted against
NOTA, yet NOTA won. In my campaign, I was promoting preference voting,
and though I spent 1/5000 of what supporters on NOTA spent, I received
1/3 of the votes. Of course, part of that $15,000. came from Bill
Press, chairman of the (un)Democratic Party. Regradless, had the
Greens supported my promotion of PrV in '94, then we'd have come along
a lot further - and the majority of voting Greens would have been
represented in the runoff afterall.
The California Green Party made a bad investment in backing NOTA ...
and they've continued their course of circumventing the democratic
process by having Nader uncontested in the recent primary vote.
Everybody knows that Toler announced his interest in the US Prez
primary - so why not have a contest?
And let the record show that I favor a debate, while Ladasky does
not. He favors name-calling, and he favors circumvention of
the democratic process.
--James
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA Parliament Email: usa...@netcom.com Usenet: alt.politics.elections
FEC ID# C00304766 Phone: (800) 369-USA-1 Prime Minister: Daniel Brockman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Swing
>
>The following copy ran in the Q & A regular column April 9, 1996 in the
>Atlanta
>Journal Constitution, largest newspaper in southern U.S.A.:
>
>Question: Ralph Nader is involved with the Green Party and his name is
>mentioned in articles as being on some ballots in presidential
>primaries. What is the Green Party? Will Nader be on the ballot in the
>November election?
>
>Answer: The Green Party USA, headquartered in Chicago, has blossomed
>decentralization, said Randy Toler, national director of the Green Party
>USA. Nader has declared that the Republican and Democratic Parties are
The Green Party USA is not based in Chicago and Randy Toler is not a
member, representative, leader, or candidate of the Green Party USA.
Randy Toler is a fraud.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote for James Ogle, perpetrator of the notorious USA Parliament fraud
and winner of the March '96 Usenet Kook of the Month Award, for the April
'96 Golden Killfile Award! E-mail your vote with the words, "I vote for
James Ogle for the Golden Killfile Award" to Matthew Legare at
<mle...@wetware.com> or post a message to that effect on alt.usenet.kooks.
Help Ogle build up his resume as one of the nuttiest kooks on the internet!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following text was e-mailed to me by Hank Chapot of the Green Party USA.
This information has been posted previously on the internet.
Gary Swing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a compilation of most of my information on Randall Toler (FYI)
Hank Chapot in Oakland
THE STRANGE CASE OF RANDY TOLER
by Hank Chapot
A week before the Nov. 94 election, in a report on 3rd parties, Pacifica
Network News ran a tape of the "National Director for the Greens, Randall
Toler". He said "we've got a good race out in New Mexico. We've got a
candidate, named Roberto Monadragon (sic) and he is a former Lietenant
governor...We do have Candidates running in Hawaii...we're running a total
of four legislative races. Also, in California, there's quite a slate,
weve' got a Lieutenant Governor and a Treasurer Candidate, Margaret Garcia,
and the Lt. Governor candidate is Daniel Moses". The reporter goes on to
say that Toler hopes the party will be strong enough in 1996 to put someone
up for President.
The thing is, this person has no relationship with any of these political
campaigns and another reporter didn't do his homework.
Who is the Greens National Director? He can't even get the names or races
right (Margaret ran for Secretary of State), but he knowingly takes credit
for work he had no part of. Ever hear of him? He is the leader of the
Green Party of America, or National Director of the National Green Party,
or the USA Green party, , or the International Green Party, or the American
Green Party. He's used Green Party of Canada on his letterhead.
And He's back.
It's time to tell the story of Randy Toler again, because with so many new
Greens, hardly any of you have even heard of him.
I first met Toler in August 1991, at a Green Party of California
organizing meeting in Santa Cruz, California. The meeting was coupled with
an Eco-fair at a community center. Randal appeared in a suit and tie, a
camera crew from a local TV station in tow. He tried to hold a press
conference with us a backdrop. He had been in southern California during
the registration drive, irritating the local Greens, crashing their events.
At his press conference, he was quickly outnumbered, the press conference
was disrupted, and he was hounded out by a few activists who sort of over
reacted. At least the reporter got a few good quotes from GPOC activists.
The headline was "local greens see red".
Greens have been organizing in the United States for more than ten years.
Through the years, Toler has crashed our meetings, used the media to get
more than a few lines of print and sent out tons of faxes. He has a
collection of news clippings that he uses to establish himself. He has been
on CNN, CBS and other networks as the leader of the Greens. Tolers is
red-baiting and charging secret homosexual agendas within the American
green movement. He has stated in print that the Green Party is being taken
over by "Lesbians, Zionists, Homosexuals and Yippees". He claims to
represent a conservative faction of the greens but there is NO EVIDENCE
that he represents anyone other than himself (and recently James Ogle of
California). He always appears alone and travels the country selling
himself as the leader of the Greens. He is currently in Aurora Illinois
(spring, 95), alleges he is running for Mayor, is giving the current Mayor
a hard time and getting press coverage.
Now he thinks he will just run for President of an ecofeminist, radical
deconstructionist , politically decentralized group called the Green Party?
Charlene Spretnak mentions Toler in her book, GREEN POLITICS (1984), where
she suggests he is a one-man conceptual art piece. He claimed in the
Chicago tribune that Huey Johnson, former State Resource Director for
Governor Jerry Brown, had promised to raise half a million dollars for a
Presidential bid. However, Mr. Johnson, who lives in Marin, told me that he
does not know Mr. Toler and wouldn't commit to a sum like that. In the same
article, Toler claimed he was organized in 80 congressional districts in
thirty-five states, and that they would field candidates in Cook County,
from Alderman to U. of Illinois Trustee. However, his green party has never
produced a candidate. (The Greens have fielded over two hundred candidates
in 16 states since 1989). In 1983, he held a news conference in Wash D.C.,
said the greens supported Mondale- claiming twenty thousand members in
Southern California (a number repeated for years). He said he would join
other left groups to bring 400 delegates to the 1984 Democratic convention.
The most egregious examples occurred in the mid eighties when he claimed to
be affiliated with Petra Kelly, using reprints of her articles in his
newsletters and calling her a supporter. He did a cut and paste job in one
of his newsletters that made it look like she was on his board of
directors. According to a Green who helped coordinate Petra's American
tour, she was furious at this and denounced Toler publicly.
In 1990, he held a "national convention" in L.A., after which he claimed
eighty participants and representation of 15 environmental organization.
NOT!
Two local greens who attended said including themselves, there were about a
dozen persons in attendance. Most of the groups Toler contacted cancelled
after they queried Mike Feinstein, longtime green activist in Santa Monica,
about the invitation.
In 1991, Toler took credit in his newsletter for the first ballot qualified
Green Party in the USA, Alaska, and claimed that Governor Pete Wilson's
campaign was seeking his endorsement. That same year, he explained to the
LA Times that he was not affiliated with the California Green Party but was
actually a registered Republican, though he continued to claim 21,000
members of the USA Green Party in Southern California.
Another claim made by Toler while in Southern California was that he
started the anti-malathion spraying protests in 1989. More ominously, radio
station KFWB in Los Angeles related the story that Toler was planning to
send Kites and Balloons up to interfere with the aircraft conducting the
spraying (as a Green). This is the complete opposite of nonviolence. While
in Newport Beach, he believes that he unsuccessfully sued the Police
Department in small claims court, alleging that they were harrassing him
and keeping potential donors from a Green Party fundraising event at his
house (LA Times).
After Santa Cruz, the California Green Party's next encounter with Toler
was in January 1992. He had failed to qualify to run in a 1992 republican
primary in Southern California. Now Randy wanted to be on our ballot for
President. We had declared victory in registering 110,000 Californians as
Greens, and were meeting in Sacramento. The friday before our meeting, in
another part of Sacramento at the Secretary of State' building, Toler held
a press conference saying we were keeping him off the ballot. (Actually,
Judge Ford had not ruled on our Open/Closed and NOTA ballot access bylaws
Toler complained about, Filing papers were still available, but he didn't
file). Though sparsely attended, Joe Hoffman and myself, (I was media
director for the Party a.t.t.), and a few media representatives were there.
As Toler made his case, it became evident that contrary to past claims of
thousands of members, he had downsized his number to hundreds, if not tens
of persons in his organization. As usual, he was unaccompanied. One
reporter from a local paper asked him how he could claim to represent the
Green Party if he only had a few members and they (the GPOC) had just
turned in the 110,000 voter registration cards. Toler had no answer. The
reporter closed his notepad and walked out in the middle of the press
conference. The TV crew folded their camera before he was finished. I
grabbed a copy of Tolers press packet which he uses to legitimize himself.
The next day, print and journal reporters, CNN, CBS, Brazilian TV and
others were covering the phenomenon of a new Green Party in the USA. Toler
appeared at the check-in table, and made a b-line for the cameras. A few
Greens freaked. Seven women from the crowd created a nonviolent blockade to
surround him and elbow him out of the glare of the cameras. He wouldn't
behave. We ended up calling security and having him escorted off the
premises. He had threatened to sue us, but disappeared within weeks. I
thought it would be the last of Randall Toler but in 1992, he tried to
crash the Greens meeting in Minnesota.
Recently, Randal was claiming to be a candidate for Mayor in Aurora,
Illinois, getting press as the "Director" of The Green Party. The Mayor of
Aurora called him a "troublemaker" in a recent article. Talk to Chris Julka
at the Aurora Beacon (708.844.5886) for a journalists response to Toler. He
has published the fact that he plans to run for President in 1996 in the
Tranet journal, and now on the Internet, but emphatically stated to me
that he wouldn't be running for President in 96. Randy claims to be
planning a national convention for the Green Party to coincide with the
Democrat convention in 1996. His PAC is now called "Green Party USAPAC".
(no record at last FEC request).
We have made countermoves. I have copies of a number of press releases
greens have sent out to disavow any connection to Toler. European Green
Parties have periodically reported recieving faxes from Toler and we have
periodically faxed back information. Los Angeles Greens had a running
"battle of the press releases" with Randy for months. In 1990, the Green
Party Organizing Committee in California challenged Tolers use of the name
Green Party and sent him a letter threatening to sue him for fundraising as
"Green Party". At the time, he had registered a PAC called "Delegates to
the Green Party", which raised no money in the 1990-92 cycle (FEC report).
This past October, in the Sacramento Bee, Toler is quoted demanding an
investigation of the "Friends of Noboby" (Joe Hoffman's NOTA campaign).
November 1st, I posted a short description of the PACIFICA piece on the
internet and Randall called (He seems to have all our phone numbers). He
wouldn't answer my fundamental question, what gave him the right to take
credit for the campaigns in New Mexico, California and Hawai'i? The closest
he came to answering was to say that he was acting like all politicians. He
still maintains that he is a faction of the Green Party. He again repeated
his claim that homosexuals had taken over the Greens and were secret about
their agenda. This week he sent me a letter, filled with more clippings
and more anti-gay rhetoric. He suggests that he has gotten more good press
as a Green than anyone except Petra Kelley. It's not true, I have hundreds
of clippings about people I know as greens, and Toler isn't one of them.
The PACIFICA reporter Mark Bevis got a lot of calls for the report, to his
credit, Bevis had tried to call the Greens/GPUSA, but their 800 number was
not working. Someone directed him to Toler, who seized the opportunity to
claim credit for NM, CA, and HI. Pacifica got the message; both the
national news and local Berkeley affiliate -KPFA- issued disclaimers of
Toler or any "National Director" (an office that does not exist), the
following day.
# # #
Randall seems to have discovered the internet, here is a posting from
11/20/94, posted by James Ogle, who lost our Gubernatorial primary to NOTA
in June. Tolers running mate for 96?
For Immidiate (sic) Release November 20, 1994
Remarks by Randy Toler of the Green Party USA on the 1996 United States
Presidential Election
The Environmentalist Party Headquarters
James Ogle, Secretary Post Office Box 4215 Monterey, California 93942
RANDY TOLER: "I am encouraging more Greens to run, besides myself,
for the Office of the President of the United States of America.
My platform calls for creating jobs without pollution and without
any new taxes. I am calling on Greens to provide REAL solutions
to the task of running a national economy. The export of environ-
mental technologies would create jobs at home and help the environ-
ment abroad. As one of the original founders of the Green Party,
I am committed to the Green Party running a presidential candidate
for the United States."
"I am calling on Greens to gather in Chicago in 1996 as part
of a 'National Green Alliance Project' to force Clinton and Gore
to address Green concerns at the 1996 Democratic National Convention."
For further information, contact the Green Party USA at (708) 898-5122
or (708) 936-2136.
Greens presidential candidate Randy Toler is encouraging more
Greens to run for ellective (sic) offices besides himself.
end of message
# # #
>From my research of his press clippings, Toler has lived and claimed his
green credentials to the media in Newark NJ, Orange County CA, Aurora IL,
Washinton D.C. and Chicago, where he claims he ran for Mayor in 1988. He
currently resides in an "efficiency apartment" in Aurora, Il, organizing
the "Aurora Citizens Association, the main opposition movement in Aurora",
according to Toler. He answers his phone, "Green Party!". If fundraising as
the Green Party USA, he is breaking the law.
As the greens grow, he will continue to ride our coattails, until he self
destructs on his own contradictions.
These are the published lies of Randy Toler:
1. That he had anything to do with the '94 Green campaigns in California,
New Mexico or Hawai'i
2.that he has 21,000 members in Southern California
3.That he was a Presidential candidate in 1992.
4.That he had any connection to Petra Kelly
5.That he was gonna sue the Green Party of California in 92.
6.That he would get an FPPC investigation of the "Friends of Nobody" in 94.
7.That Huey Johnson was going to raise 500,000 dollars for his presidential bid.
(I spoke to Mr Johnson).
8.That he invented the Green Party.
9.That he started the anti-malathion protests in Southern California in 89.
10. That he is running for Mayor of Aurora Illinois.
11.That he has gotten more positive press than any Green since Petra Kelly.
13. That he has "a very close relationship with the Hispanic community".
14. That "Gays, Lesbians, Zionists and Yippees are making the Greens fringe
and meaningless".
15. that 50,000 people showed up at his Earth Day press conference in 1993.
16.That the "Aurora Citizens Association" will become the main opposition
movement in Aurora.
Sources:
Sacramento Bee 10/11/94
Aurora Beacon, Illinois 2/12/94, 9/23/94
FEC reports
Pacifica Network News 10/30&31/94
Chicago Tribune 12/17/84
Newark Star Ledger 9/8/83
NY Times 12/10/89
Orange County Register mid January 1992
LA Times ?
The Beacon News 101 So. River Street aurora, Illinois 60506-6099
Saturday, February 18, 1995
Title: MAYORAL HOPEFUL SETS SIGHTS ON PRESIDENCY
subtitle: One-man show: Self-proclaimed leader of the Green party USA hopes
to unseat Clinton
By: Chris Julka- Beacon News Staff
Aurora - A political activist who recently arrived here from California
still hopes to be the next Mayor of Aurora - provided he is not elected
president first.
Little more than one year after declaring his bid to oust Mayor David
Pierce, Randy Toler now says he also is after Bill Clinton's job.
"The reason I am running is that I feel that the Clinton administration
has not been paying enough attention to the environment," said Toler, who
claims to be a leader of the Green Party USA, an environmentalist group.
"The Green movement has reached the point where it can express itself
politically at the national level," he said.
Toler said he has a chance of appearing on the ballot as a presidential
candidate in several states where the Green Party is recognized as a
legitimate political party and has greatly reduced requirements for
signatures. If he does not win the presidency in 1996, he said, he will
always have the consolation of running for Aurora mayor in 1997.
"It's a win-win situation," Toler said. If I lose at the national level,
I can win at the local level. The Greens stress local politics. I think
this will enhance my reputation as a regional politician. It will mean
visibility."
The 38-year-old computer salesman has succeeded in attaining visibility
already, having been identified as a leader, founder or spokesman for the
American Green movement by a number of newspapers, including the New York
Times, the Washington Times, the Chicago Tribune, and the Los Angeles
Times. He also has appeared on a variety of radio and television
broadcasts, including C-SPAN.
But Toler is by no means universally acclaimed by members of the Green
Party. The movement has won a number of local elections in several states,
including California, where Toler lived slightly more than a year ago.
But Toler has never appeared on a ballot as a Green Party candidate and
in fact holds no stature within the party, said Hank Chapot of Oakland
Calif., who identified himself as a member of the Green Party's Alameda
County Central Committee.
"I think Randy is a bit deluded," said Chapot. "You can say anything. You
can say you are the King of France. Randy never was and will not be a
candidate for the Green Party."
Toler dismissed Chapot as a one-man issue of gay rights. "He intends to
make those who oppose his view appear not to be part of the Green Party,"
he said." I think the Green party is broader than that... There is an
ideological battle for the heart and soul of the Green Party nationwide. We
are in the moderate faction, and there is another faction which is fringe.
They are the radical feminists, lesbians and animal-rights activists."
Toler said he is responding to a "Draft Toler for President" movement
launched by James Ogle who ran unsuccessfully for California Green Party
gubernatorial nomination in April 1994.
Ogle stated that he also is backing another man for President, Mike
Bogatirev, "founder and president of the Environmentalist Party" -- in
order to bring about electoral reform. "I'm just active because elections
are not fair" he said.
Ogle, 37, who said he works in an artists' cooperative in Monterey, could
identify only three members of the "Draft Toler for President" initiative.
Toler said that he hopes his presidential bid will give him status as a
"regional politician."
note:
last fall, Randy sent me his recent press clippings. I called the reporter
who had written about him, Chris Julka, who called back a few weeks later,
wanting my reaction to Toler's announcement for president. This article
(written in February), arrived in the mail June 12th .
hc
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
Dear Mr Ogle:
This is exactly the kind of post that is welcome on APG. All you need to
do is cut this garbage:
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: USA Parliament Email: usa...@netcom.com Usenet: alt.politics.elections
: FEC ID# C00304766 Phone: (800) 369-USA-1 Prime Minister: John Renna
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
..and you might begin to ameliorate your victory as "Usenet Kook of the
Month", which you so deservedly won.
RL
Cameron Spitzer
>
>John Ladasky (lad...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>: Fascinating, poorly-researched article. Randy Toler is a fraud,
>: and James Ogle, rejected by the California Green Party in 1994, does all
>: he can to promote Randy.
>
>John, you didn't do your math. The majority of Greens voted against
James Ogle has asked why I think he's not playing with a full deck.
The preceding claim demonstrates that he's unable to face the
reality of his defeat by Binding None of the Above.
People who deny reality that's as easily verifiable as the
result of the '94 Green Primary in California are not in good
mental health. A clear majority of voters in that race voted for
None of the Above or for the candidate who ran to use his ballot statement
to urge a vote for None of the Above. NotA itself got almost 50%, more than
twice as much as any candidate. That's not an opinion, it's historical
fact. You can call the Secretary of State in Sacramento and verify it.
And every time James Ogle denies that fact in public, somebody reminds
him of it. Yet he keeps denying the reality.
>I received 1/3 of the votes.
Speaking of not doing the math, Ogle got 17% of the votes.
That's about 1/6. In the counties where Friends of Nobody campaigned,
he got about 11%.
>And let the record show that I favor a debate, while Ladasky does
>not. [...]
Actually, the Greens have offered to debate Ogle and Toler
many times. I've offered to post Toler's position papers.
We've invited them to our gatherings. They decline.
Toler promised to send me his newsletter, for free, when he started
publishing it again, and that was a lie, too.
James Ogle
: The following text was e-mailed to me by Hank Chapot of the Green
Party ...
Just because Hank Chapot is close friends with Greg Jan and Jim Lindsay,
does not give him any special rights to distribute the lies and exaggerations
shown in his story. In fact, Randy Toler WAS elected to the Green Party's
committee, as a leader, in the USA Parliament election. Chapot, Jan and
Lindsay are anti-parliamentarians, and therefore are not interested in the
only national democratically legitimate election in the US today - the
USA Parliament election. Toler on the other hand, supports this
parliamentary committee all the way - so let's put up another election -
and decide by votes.
--James
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA Parliament Email: usa...@netcom.com Usenet: alt.politics.elections
FEC ID# C00304766 Phone: (800) 369-USA-1 Prime Minister: Daniel Brockman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: John Ladasky (lad...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: : Fascinating, poorly-researched article. Randy Toler is a fraud,
: : and James Ogle, rejected by the California Green Party in 1994, does all
: : he can to promote Randy.
: John, you didn't do your math. The majority of Greens voted against
: NOTA, yet NOTA won. In my campaign, I was promoting preference voting,
: and though I spent 1/5000 of what supporters on NOTA spent, I received
: 1/3 of the votes.
For the unitiated, Mr Ogle is referring to his humiliating defeat by
"None of the Above" in the California Green Party primary for governor.
Another candidate ran on the slogan "vote for NOTA" -- combined they got
something like 83% of the vote.
: Everybody knows that Toler announced his interest in the US Prez
: primary - so why not have a contest?
Because Toler had humiliated himself by lying on national public radio
that he was the "elected leader" of the Green Party. This and other
stunts made him persona non grata in the greens, which is a difficult
thing to accomplish. You and Toler are the only ones in 10 years, to my
knowledge, to have received this honour.
: And let the record show that I favor a debate, while Ladasky does
: not. He favors name-calling, and he favors circumvention of
: the democratic process.
He favours honesty and preventing you from spreading disinformation.
RL
James Ogle
: Another candidate ran on the slogan "vote for NOTA" -- combined they got
: something like 83% of the vote.
Richard, you can't add either, eh? Combined, it's 67%.
Name ballot designation percent of vote amount spent
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTA 46% $15,000.
John Selawsky teacher, educator 21%
James Ogle artist 17% $30.
John Lewallen small businessman 16% ~$2,000.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: Basic tenets are ecology consciousness, non-violence and
: decentralization, said Randy Toler, national director of the Green Party
: USA.
: Atlanta Journal Constitution
If Randy Toler and Ogle are still able to get this kind of falsehood into
the press without correction, then there really is something wrong with
the Greens in the USA. Has the NY office hired a press person to support
the Nader campaign and establish a direct channel to the media? Sure hope
so. Otherwise, lies like these (that the Green Party is headquartered in
Chicago, that Toler is "director") will appear more and more frequently in
the run-up to the elections in November.
At first I only skimmed Ogle's post, saw the credit for the Atlanta paper
at the bottom, and figured old kookster was just reprinting standard Nader
fare from the mainstream press. Even congratulated him for not plugging
"USA-Par". Haste makes mistakes. Imagine the new Green voter reading an
article like this .. what will she retain? Toler...Chicago...who knows?
We should inform Nader's press guy...Feinstien? Cameron .. do you have a
contact?
RL
James Ogle
Tony Miller (Democrat) got more ink out of NOTA then anyone else. I
was never interviewed by any reporter during my campaign, other than two
small weekly newspapers, while Miller basked in NOTA publicity. One
example is the 11/5/95 article about the election in the _San Jose
Mercury News_, where Miller was interviewed extensively about NOTA.
Yet my name was never mentioned, and I had just been defeated by NOTA
the day before. Personally, I believe that PrV (my campaign platform)
is a much better reform than NOTA. It was unfortunate that I was never
given a chance to say that to the public.
--James
James Ogle (joo...@netcom.com) wrote:
Gary Swing
Follow-ups have been set to alt.usenet.kooks, the only newsgroup in which
March'96 Usenet Kook of the Month James Ogle's delusional ravings belong.
Vote for pathological liar James Ogle for the Golden Killfile Award --
the lifetime achievement award for the nuttiest kooks on the internet.
Email your vote to Matthew Legare at <mle...@wetware.com>. The text of
the message should state, "I vote for James Ogle for the Golden Killfile
Award." Then add joo...@netcom.com to your own killfile and ignore his
perpetual USA Parliament scam/spam.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <joogleDp...@netcom.com> joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle) writes:
>Gary Swing (gws...@ouray.cudenver.edu) wrote:
>: The following text was e-mailed to me by Hank Chapot of the Green
> Party ...
>
>Just because Hank Chapot is close friends with Greg Jan and Jim Lindsay,
>does not give him any special rights to distribute the lies and exaggerations
>shown in his story.
Hank Chapot was the media director for the Green Party and part of his work
was to document and expose the lies of Randy Toler.
> In fact, Randy Toler WAS elected to the Green Party's
>committee, as a leader, in the USA Parliament election.
Your fraudulent mock election is not a nominating forum for the Green
Party or the Labor Party or any other REAL party. You do not elect
representatives or leaders of the Green Party and Toler is not a member,
candidate, representative, or leader of the real Green Party USA.
> Chapot, Jan and Lindsay are anti-parliamentarians, and therefore are
I don't know where any of them stand on "parliamentary" government. That
is a very different thing from proportional representation voting
systems, although you continually blur the distinction between the two
(or fail to recognize the distinction at all.) Chapot supports
proportional representation and I would presume that Jan does too, as do
most of the people who have been continually exposing your campaign of
lies and deceit over the past several months. Lindsay is an organizer for
Northern Californians for Proportional Representation doing real work to
promote real systems of proportional representation, as opposed to your
parliament sham which hybridizes party list voting with proxy voting and
presidential prefernce polls, combined with corrupt administration by a
delusion cyberspace dictator. Lindsay asked you to either cease your
campaign of harassment against the Green Party or leave Northern
Californians for Proportional Representation. You chose to leave his
group and continue your campaign of lies and deceit.
>not interested in the
>only national democratically legitimate election in the US today - the
>USA Parliament election.
blah, blah, blah....
> Toler on the other hand, supports this parliamentary committee all the
> way -
Sure, because it advances his fraud.
> so let's put up another election - and decide by votes.
We already did that last month and out of all the millions of internet
users on thousands of newsgroups, YOU won the unique distinction of being
democratically elected as the March '96 Usenet Kook of the Month.
Another democratically legitimate election is being conducted this month
to induct you into the Usenet Kook hall of fame with the April '96 GOLDEN
KILLFILE AWARD -- a truly distinctive dishonor. Email your votes *TODAY*
for James Ogle for the GOLDEN KILLFILE AWARD to Matthew Legare at
<mle...@wetware.com>. Help Ogle earn the ignominy he so richly deserves.
Gary Swing
USA Parliament Nominee for President
Toler and Ogle are Frauds Party
John Ladasky
Month, March 1996. Run along, James.
John Ladasky
>: The following text was e-mailed to me by Hank Chapot of the Green
> Party ...
>
>Just because Hank Chapot is close friends with Greg Jan and Jim Lindsay,
>does not give him any special rights to distribute the lies and exaggerations
>committee, as a leader, in the USA Parliament election. Chapot, Jan and
>Lindsay are anti-parliamentarians, and therefore are not interested in the
>only national democratically legitimate election in the US today - the
>parliamentary committee all the way - so let's put up another election -
>and decide by votes.
O.K., James.
You think Randy Toler is a good representative for the Greens?
Fine. You also seem to be in touch with him on a fairly regular basis.
Why don't you invite him to post some of his viewpoints on alt.politics.
greens and respond to some of our questions? I'm willing to be convinced
that he's a wonderful guy, if he tells me so himself. I'll tell you what.
I'll *even* vote for him in a "USA Parliament" "election" if I like him!
But sight-unseen, which is how most candidates run in your "elec-
tion," I will stand by my current opinion of Randy Toler as hostile to
the values of the Green Party. At least two people whom I know personally
have had contact with Mr. Toler and did not come away impressed.
By the way, what is your basis for disparaging Greg Jan, Hank
Chapot, or Jim Lindsay? Answer me in email, please -- don't clutter up
Usenet.
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: ... I just wanted to add that acting California Secretary of State
: Tony Miller (Democrat) got more ink out of NOTA then anyone else. I
: was never interviewed by any reporter during my campaign, other than two
: small weekly newspapers, while Miller basked in NOTA publicity.
You weren't interviewed because most reporters are aware of your
reputation for self-promotion and outright lies.
Gary Swing
Vote for James Ogle, perpetrator of the notorious USA Parliament fraud,
for the April 1996 GOLDEN KILLFILE AWARD. This is the lifetime
achievement award to recognize the nuttiest kooks on the internet. Email
your vote to Matthew Legare at <mle...@wetware.com>; then add
joo...@netcom.com to your own killfile.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never trust anything posted by James Ogle.
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: : Another candidate ran on the slogan "vote for NOTA" -- combined they got
: : something like 83% of the vote.
Usenet Kook of the month (joo...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Richard, you can't add either, eh? Combined, it's 67%.
: Name ballot designation percent of vote amount spent
: -------------------------------------------------------------------
: NOTA 46% $15,000.
: John Selawsky teacher, educator 21%
: James Ogle artist 17% $30.
: John Lewallen small businessman 16% ~$2,000.
: -------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's see:
Total vote: 100%
Kook candidate: 17%
______________________
Total ant-Kook vote: 83%
RL
John Ladasky
>... I just wanted to add that acting California Secretary of State
>Tony Miller (Democrat) got more ink out of NOTA then anyone else. I
>was never interviewed by any reporter during my campaign, other than two
>small weekly newspapers
Two points:
The California Secretary of State's office was contesting the right
of the Green Party to have None of the Above (NOTA) in their elections by-
laws in a lawsuit. Of course he was an appropriate person to interview.
His party affiliation is irrelevant -- he was California's presiding elec-
tions officer.
John Selawsky received more votes than James Ogle in the primary.
If they were going to interview a candidate, wouldn't he have been a more
appropriate choice? By the way, Selawsky was a candidate solely to place
a statement in the primary ballot to support NOTA!
>: NOTA 46% $15,000.
>: John Selawsky teacher, educator 21%
>: James Ogle artist 17% $30.
>: John Lewallen small businessman 16% ~$2,000.
--
James Ogle
(Republican) beat Tony Miller (Democrat), who then contested NOTA.
Your comments are therefore completely out of context, just as your
header was. Also, Selawsky was not a legit candidate ... the words
published by him were not even his own. Originally, Joe hoffman had 4-5
such stooges that were to run for NOTA.
I stand by my claim that PR is a far more superior reform than NOTA.
--James
John Ladasky (lad...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Two points:
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: >In fact, Randy Toler WAS elected to the Green Party's
: >committee, as a leader, in the USA Parliament election.
everyone knows the USA-PAR is meaningless, Mr Secretary. It has been shown
to be fraudulent on dozens of occassions, and every independent
participant left in disgust months ago after you cooked votes and rewrote
rules to suit your personal agenda.
There is no "USA-PArliament" election, unless you consider *two votes*
(yours and Toler's) a democratically legitimate way to choose a "leader".
Your USA-Par ruse has no bearing on Green politics, and the Green Party
does not participate in it. The Green Party involves thousands of
activists around the contry: the USA-PAR involves exactly three people,
not counting the nine or ten who joined at one point with the expressed
purpose of *shutting the fraud down*.
You are dishonest, plain and simple, trying to play with a few
attractive political ideas to win yourself recognition you do not
deserve.
You're also a kook.
RL
John Ladasky
March 1996 Usenet Kook of the Month
James Ogle <joo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>John. NOTA was not contested until AFTER the election.
Incorrect. The lawsuit was begun under the previous Secretary of
State, March Fong Eu. This dragged on for a while.
>Bill Jones
>(Republican) beat Tony Miller (Democrat), who then contested NOTA.
>Your comments are therefore completely out of context, just as your
>header was. Also, Selawsky was not a legit candidate ... the words
>published by him were not even his own.
Prove it. And even if someone else wrote those words, how do
you know that they did not express Selawsky's wishes? After all, he
agreed to run. And how does employing a writer render a candidate
illegitimate? And he *still* got more votes than you.
>Originally, Joe hoffman had 4-5 such stooges that were to run for NOTA.
I say, the more, the merrier! But clearly, only one "stooge"
was needed.
>I stand by my claim that PR is a far more superior reform than NOTA.
Greens support PR in general elections. But we *are* partisans,
and we want the name Green to continue to stand for something. Excessive
PR *within* a political party, especially a small one with minority views,
renders it vulnerable to "raiding" by folks (like James Ogle) whose effect
would be to turn all political parties they touch into factions of the
Plain Vanilla Party. So much for diversity engendered by PR elections.
I stand by my claim that the Green Party of California is a much
better organization today than it would have been if James Ogle had run
for governor.
Cameron Spitzer
Mr Richard Ethan Latker <pris...@news.hk.super.net> wrote:
>Usenet Kook of the Month <James Ogle> wrote:
>
>: >In fact, Randy Toler WAS elected to the Green Party's
>: >committee, as a leader, in the USA Parliament election.
>
>(yours and Toler's) a democratically legitimate way to choose a "leader".
In James Ogle's fantasy world, the Toler-Ogle Green Party
is as real as the Green Parties that exist in over sixty nations --
and the USA Parliament is just as real as the US' Electoral College.
Toler was elected "Leader" of the Green Party of the USA Parliament,
which exists in James' imagination.
>You are dishonest, plain and simple,
[...]
James is no more dishonest than a double amputee is physically
handicapped. He doesn't know that what he does is misleading,
because he can't distinguish his fantasy from reality.
Perhaps Toler has the same mental illness: his claims (of being
"National Director of the Green Party") to national
media would then be equally innocent.
Perhaps Toler will speak up for himself in this forum someday
instead of letting Ogle speak for him.
Cameron
James Ogle
: In James Ogle's fantasy world, the Toler-Ogle Green Party
: is as real as the Green Parties that exist in over sixty nations --
: and the USA Parliament is just as real as the US' Electoral College.
More real. Because in the USA Parliament election, every vote counts.
: James is no more dishonest than a double amputee is physically
: handicapped. He doesn't know that what he does is misleading,
Cameron, you are the one that is misleading - you try to make US
winner-take-all elections as legitimate - and you try to make
the California Green Party legitimate - but the USA Parliament
elections are the only legitimate elections worth voting in.
: Perhaps Toler has the same mental illness ...
Then you write-off the only national democratically legitimate elections
in the US as a project of the mentally ill.
Why do you spend your time doing this? Are you crazy?
--James
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
: : In James Ogle's fantasy world, the Toler-Ogle Green Party
: : is as real as the Green Parties that exist in over sixty nations --
: : and the USA Parliament is just as real as the US' Electoral College.
The Usenet Kook of the Month, March 1996 (joo...@netcom.com) responded:
: More real. Because in the USA Parliament election, every vote counts.
Counts for what? Playing into your delusions of grandeur? Your election
is meaningless, and has lost its utility even as an exercise in
alternative voting because you *cheat*. You don't just overestimate its
importance, you manipulate the rules to get results you require. How
pathetic.
Cameron:
: : James is no more dishonest than a double amputee is physically
: : handicapped. He doesn't know that what he does is misleading,
Kook:
: Cameron, you are the one that is misleading - you try to make US
: winner-take-all elections as legitimate - and you try to make
: the California Green Party legitimate - but the USA Parliament
: elections are the only legitimate elections worth voting in.
Legitimate? What a laugh. You hold votes every few weeks, which you always
manage to win yourself. You count the votes yourself. You write (and
rewrite) the rules yourself. The only verifiable people to actively
participate in USA PAR were dedicated to shutting it down. The one
independent observor of the process resigned in disgust after you abused
his trust. Meanwhile, USA PAR has never engaged in real activities of any
kind.
Any fool can figure out that you are lying about the constituency of
USA-PAR. No one has *ever* posted on behalf of you or USA-PAR. No one.
You're a self-aggrandising pest wasting our bandwidth, plain and simple.
Cameron:
: : Perhaps Toler has the same mental illness ...
Kook:
: Then you write-off the only national democratically legitimate elections
: in the US as a project of the mentally ill?
It is obviously a "project of the mentally ill". You were elected Usenet
Kook of the Month for a reason, Mr Secretary, the only election you've
*ever* won. USA-Par is a meaningless institution, obviously, but it's
become apparent that you *really* believe otherwise. That's called a
*delusion*. Maybe you really believe you are the "Presidential Candidate
of the Labor Party". Maybe you really believe you are the "elected
Secretary of the only democratically legitmate election in the US". But
the reality, sadly, is that you are a lone kook with a computer, incapable
of organising breakfast much less a political organisation, and the world
is passing you by.
More reality, Mr Secretary: You are 38 years old, unemployed, unskilled
and still living off of your parent's money. You are the only person in US
history to be beaten (by a huge margin) by "none of the above" in a
primary election. Your present political project is based on a mixture of
lies, half-truths and smoke & mirrors, rendering it totally ineffective.
Your attempts at business ("Global Business Systems") came crashing down
amidst allegations of fraud and incompetance, without yielding you a cent.
Your "artwork" doesn't sell. You've made a fool out of yourself on this
medium, and pissed plenty of people off in the process. You will forever
be known not as "James Ogle, presidential candidate", but "James Ogle,
Usenet Kook". And, when it comes right down to it, you're not really very
smart.
So rather than making pretensions of leadership, Mr Secretary, maybe it's
time for some long-term psychotherapy. Maybe you need to stop your little
Internet game and pull your own shit together while there's still time,
rather than pestering us.
Maybe you ought to just *GO AWAY*.
Shoo fly, shoo.
RL
Gary Swing
Vote for James Ogle, perpetrator of the notorious USA Parliament fraud,
Legare at <mle...@wetware.com>. This is a real, democratically
legitimate election, unlike the USA Parliament scam/spam.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <joogleDq...@netcom.com> March '96 Usenet Kook of the
Month joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle) writes:
>Cameron Spitzer (cam...@rahul.net) wrote:
[snip]
Ironic statement of the year by March '96 Kook of the Month James Ogle:
>Why do you spend your time doing this? Are you crazy?
Ask yourself this question James, then have yourself committed to a
mental hospital so that you can get the intensive psychiatric treatment
you need so desperately. Maybe somebody you can actually become a
functioning member of society.
James Ogle
I thought it was a very good article, the way that Randy put the Green
Party in context with other parliament governments around the world.
Sam D Fassbinder
on Thu Apr 25 13:11:06 EDT 1996 joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle) tells us:
--James
My response: The Green Party doesn't care what you think, Ogle. Have you
thought of going back to business fraud? It certainly shows much more promise
than pretending to be the Green Party or the "Labor Party" in that it 1) might
make you some money, 2) might get you institutionalized, both of which could be
of benefit to you. On the other hand, maybe I am missing some benefit you
obtain from being ridiculed on alt.politics.greens.
James Ogle
Sam D Fassbinder (sfas...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: My response: The Green Party doesn't care what you think, Ogle.
Are you the spokesman for the Green Party, Sam?
: Have you thought of going back to business fraud?
... never was involved in that. Do you have some evidence otherwise,
or do you regularly slander people with baseless accusations?
: It certainly shows much more promise ... [snip]
The USA Parliament election is based on verifiable ballots. If you
don't like the results, that's no reason to slander me with your lies.
You may not have even voted. The best way to have an effect is to
vote and/or promote the election. Slander and libel of my name
will not affect the results.
Gary Swing
March '96 Usenet Kook of the Month Award winner James Ogle writes:
>Sam D Fassbinder (sfas...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>: My response: The Green Party doesn't care what you think, Ogle.
>
>Are you the spokesman for the Green Party, Sam?
>
>: Have you thought of going back to business fraud?
>
>... never was involved in that. Do you have some evidence otherwise,
>or do you regularly slander people with baseless accusations?
>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Secretary Ogle's Kookster campaign: Choice material!
In article <4j6o5i$p...@tst.hk.super.net> Richard Latker wrote:
> ===========Vote for JAMES OGLE============
> USENET KOOK OF THE MONTH
>
>
>It turns out that USA-PAR is not James Ogle's first kooky endeavor on the
>net. Last spring, Ogle appeared as the "Founder, Owner and President" of
>Global Business Systems. He was *just as popular* with the tech community
>as he is right here on alt.politics.greens and alt.politics.elections.
>Here are some choice posts:
>
>++++++
>From: joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle)
>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 18:18:37 -0500, Thu, 13 Apr 1995 19:50:53 GMT
>Subject: PoPs-in-a-Box, Engineering Consultants Avail.
>
>Custom Internet access business equipment.
>
>PoPs-in-a-Box for as low as $15,000.
>
>Fully operating one-man Internet Provider businesses for anywhere in the
>world with total Internet access and guaranteed quality new equipment for
>about $50,000.
>
>Totally new custom Internet Provider businesses, with equipment, spread
>sheets, backbone connections, offices, etc. that can be supported by two
>employees for about $250,000., designed to grow fast and located anywhere!
>
>Many packages to choose from! Just tell us your needs!
>
>Also; Engineer consultants specializing in Internet technologies available
>for $125./hour.
>
>- - - --James
>
>::::::::::::::::::::::::::Global Business Systems::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>:: Internet Backbone Connections + PoPs-in-a-Box + Engineer Consultation ::
>:: James Ogle, Director/President + (408) 644-0448 + joo...@netcom.com ::
>::::::::::::::::::::::::::Global Business Systems::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>It gets better. Soon, poor James was getting flack from the techies for
>spamming their newgroups, and giving rather nebulous replies to specific
>questions about his product. Here is one of his replies, spammed to
>scores of newsgroups:
>
>Dear Potential Customer,
>
>I am offering a unique item, the PoP-in-a-Box, to people that are
>interested. I am a salesperson, and the sole owner/employee of my
>business. I have never made one sale through my new business, but if I do
>sell this item, then you will be very happy with the speed and the quality
>of the American workmanship.
>
>Others will offer you free consultation. I say, you get what you pay for.
>
>Others will criticize me for not understanding the very equipment that I
>represent. I say, once you spend one hour with the engineer that would
>build the system, you will realize that the knowledge is transferred *not*
>from me to you, but from *him* to you.
>
>One guy is complaining that a former corporation that I was president of
>did not refund money fast enough after he placed an order. However, I do
>not work for that company, so I am not responsible for this refund. My
>job there was to sell intra-LATA frame relay, that's what I did. As that
>company had a shift in policy to International frame-relay, they could not
>deliver to one guy. As one of two founding directors, the company is
>doing quite well and they are still in communique' with me. They said
>they will be refunding the guy's money in two payments over the next two
>weeks. Still, those were apples and these are oranges. Again, I have not
>been president of that company for several months, I am not responsible
>for their refund policy. (I am not a director and I own no stocks or
>shares in that company either)
>
>All of these other businessmen are criticizing me, for the the fact that I
>am trying to sell a product. I have not committed errors, I have only
>told the truth.
>
>Many of them are my competition.
>
>Yes, I own a domain name. Is it a crime that I don't want to reveal it?
>I've posted it before, but I'd rather not reveal my technical support, if
>possible, as they are listed at my domain name.
>
>Are you brave enough to find out the truth? Be the first one to dive into
>the never broken water ... virgin territory ... Global Business Systems.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>James Ogle
>President, Sales (sole owner)
>Global Business Systems
>715 9th Street
>Pacific Grove, CA 93950
>(408) 644-0448
>
>+++++++++++++++
>
>But, alas, James kept getting unappreciative replies like these:
>
>April 29, 1995
>
>Mel Beckman (mbec...@mbeckman.com) wrote:
>: joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle) wrote:
>: >
>: >My business, Global Business Services, is offering complete packaged
>: >solutions including hardware, software, domain names, IP addresses,
>: >and allocation of InterNet feeds.
>: >
>: >We offer all of these services separately or together, including
>: >general consulting and market analysis.
>
>: >Minimum order on consultation is one hour.
>
>: James,
>
>: Aren't these ads a little pointless? I've asked you several times for
>: information by email, and you've given me zilch, other than a brushoff
>: that your mailbox is real full and you'll get to me eventually.
>
>: Although I am interested in your services, I think you're repeated
>: mass posts are a little tiresome, especially given that you seem to just
>: collect information and give none out. Since you can't even handle the
>: inquiries you're getting now, I wish you'd quit posting the ads!
>
>: -mel
>
>++++++++++
>
>And finally, these:
>
>From: gu...@deltanet.com (Bill Schultz)
>Date: 1995/04/30
>
>In <joogleD7...@netcom.com>, joo...@netcom.com (James Ogle) writes:
>:>John Sanger (tedd...@netcom.com) wrote:
>:>
>:>: If we carefully review Mr. Ogle's posts on this subject, we will see that
>:>: he called himself a "Director" of the VBC operation and also referred to
>:>: himself as an employee. When he said "Director" he mentioned the word
>:>: "founding" also. So I suspect that he was more than just a salesdroid at
>:>: the VBC operation or his ego wants us to believe he was.
>:>
>:>Actually, if you need to know ... I don't know why I'm bothering ...
>:>I was a founding director, with no ownership of shares.
>
>A founding director, with no ownership of shares. That screams "my
>creditors are after me and I don't dare actaully own anything."
>
>:>: As I said before this looks like a plain ole scam to me.
>:>
>:>No, it's really true. A complete set-up with two-week lead time,
>:>$15,000.
>
>Obviously, in advance. ;-)
>
>Look, I have set follow-ups to alt.internet.services, and if Mr. Ogle
>does not take his repeated sales pitches out of the comp.* newsgroups,
>I fear it will be time to try and get his netcom account cancelled.
>THEN maybe he will have to use his alleged private domain. ;-)
>++++++
>
>So friends, if you've made it this far, you'll see that *no one* on Usenet
>is more deserving of the "Kook of the month" award than Mr. James Ogle.
>Time's running out! Vote!
>
>RL
>
>Send mail to Matthew Legare, mle...@wetware.com, with "I vote for James
>Ogle KotM" in the message body.
Mr Richard Ethan Latker
Usenet Kook of the Month (joo...@netcom.com) wrote:
: ... never was involved in that. Do you have some evidence otherwise,
: or do you regularly slander people with baseless accusations?
I do. I downloaded some of your several hundred posts to scores of tech
news groups, in which you deliberately misrepresented yourself and your
non-existent "Global Business Systems" in a blatant effort to score quick
cash. at least one person was taken in, and he had to go to court to
retrieve several thousand dollars he sent you -- wasting months of his
time and ruining his business.
Through this period, you lied about how many employees you had, the
ownership structure of your "business", your level of expertise and the
"product" you were huckstering. Because you didn;t realise at the time that
your posts didn;t "vanish" after they disappeared from your server, you
contradicted yourself on several occassions and clearly lost track of
your own lies.
Say the word, kookster, and I'll post them again for all to see, along
with a statement written to me by someone you defrauded.
: The USA Parliament election is based on verifiable ballots.
No its not. You count the votes, you don't let anyone else see them, and
you don't provide contact information for anyone else supposedly involved
in your little scam. You've been caught lying on several occassions
about the participants, you've invented fictitious people whenever you
needed extra votes, and you always win the position of secretary, even
when you've obviously been "voted out".
You are untruthful, manipulative and vain. Fortunately, you are also
incompetent.
: Slander and libel of my name will not affect the results.
Nothing will, because you determine them ahead of time. No one believes
you anymore. No one.
Shoo fly, shoo.
RL
James Ogle
: : : Have you thought of going back to business fraud?
: Usenet Kook of the Month (joo...@netcom.com) wrote:
: : ... never was involved in that. Do you have some evidence otherwise,
: : or do you regularly slander people with baseless accusations?
: I do.
THis is very funny, Richard. I didn't know that Mr. Deppner went
to court on this matter ... please, keep me informed of such things.
Furthermore, I have never denied anyone from validifying the ballots
from the "First US Preferential Ballot and USA Parliament Election",
as you've written that I did below.
--James
: I downloaded some of your several hundred posts to scores of tech
: Shoo fly, shoo.
: RL
Cameron Spitzer
>: Sam D Fassbinder (sfas...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>: : : Have you thought of going back to business fraud?
>
>: Usenet Kook of the Month (joo...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: : ... never was involved in that. Do you have some evidence otherwise,
>: : or do you regularly slander people with baseless accusations?
>
>: I do.
>
>THis is very funny, Richard. I didn't know that Mr. Deppner went
>to court on this matter ... please, keep me informed of such things.
>Furthermore, I have never denied anyone from validifying the ballots
>from the "First US Preferential Ballot and USA Parliament Election",
>as you've written that I did below.
>
In James' private reality, anybody can "validify" the "ballots"
he collected during one of his "elections."
In the reality the rest of us endure, James charges a lot of
money for copies of them, with no way to verify a complete set is
being supplied, and there are no takers.
The bleat goes on.
Cameron
James Ogle
Cameron Spitzer (cam...@rahul.net) wrote:
: In James' private reality, anybody can "validify" the "ballots"
: he collected during one of his "elections."
The rules state that any nominee, or a proxy, be present.
: In the reality the rest of us endure, James charges a lot of
: money for copies of them, with no way to verify a complete set is
: being supplied, and there are no takers.
These ballots are valuable, because they can be made public in such
a way that protects the secrecy of each paper ballot, while also
enabling the registered voters to contacted for verification that
they did indeed cast a vote, without actually disclosing who they
voted for.
--James