The coming hunger
Jason
and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
This week, food riots paralyzed Haiti, with angry marchers outside the
president's palace shouting "We are hungry!" Five people were killed in the
chaos.
In Egypt, a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed this week in two days of
violence over food shortages. Last month, a two-week protest at
government-subsidized bakeries ended with the deaths of 10 Egyptians in
clashes with police.
Rice is the staple food of 4 billion people. But the prices for it,
along with corn, wheat and other basics, has surged by 40 per cent to 80
per cent in the last three years and caused panicked uprisings in some
of the poorest countries on Earth, from Cameroon to Bolivia.
The situation has deteriorated so swiftly that some experts predict the
effects of a global food crisis are going to bite more quickly than
climate change.
According to the World Bank, 33 countries are now vulnerable to social
unrest and political instability because of food insecurity - and that
has implications for all the rest. Major rice producers like China,
Cambodia and Vietnam are already battening down, curbing exports to
ensure supplies for their own populations. The Philippines, whose
population has grown from 60 million to almost 90 million in 17 years,
is warning rice hoarders they'll be charged with economic sabotage.
Why is it happening? Was Malthus right when he said the world would
eventually be too populated to feed itself?
The United Nations already provides food for 73 million people in 78
countries worldwide. But the planet is getting hungrier. At least 4
million more people are being added to the list, most of them living in
high-density, Third World cities.
The new face of hunger - and thirst - is overwhelmingly urban.
It takes 1,000 tonnes of water to produce one tonne of food, but water
scarcity is affecting supplies. And, as Lester Brown, president of Earth
Policy Institute in Washington, has cautioned: "A future of water
shortages will be a future of food shortages."
The current crisis was ignited by a number of elements coming together
in deadly tandem. Analysts say the most important one - the jump in
global fuel prices - has triggered a chain reaction in the entire
food-production system, from seed planting right through to the delivery
process.
http://www.thestar.com/article/413769
Sir Frederick
1. I need to lose weight anyway.
2. But sex feels so good.
If it isn't death by starvation it will be death by paradigm shift.
Jerry Okamura
solution to the problem. If you know of a problem, or you believe there is
a problem and you have no solution to the problem, how do you solve the
problem?
"Jason" <jasonp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fu2393$j2h$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Justin Case
"Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:k06904lsff8ugsesn...@4ax.com...
The liberals cure is to divert even more food for alternate fuel. Yes,
millions more will starve and food prices will rise by 25% but we we'll each
save $6.50 per month on fuel.
al Guacamole
Disturbing story. Looks like govts need to work together on this.
Bert Hyman
news:aa7fab79-4dc4-402d...@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
> Disturbing story. Looks like govts need to work together on this.
>
As usual, governments are looked to to provide a fix for a problem
they created, while not actually stopping the practices that created
the problem in the first place.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@iphouse.com
John Galt
"al Guacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
news:aa7fab79-4dc4-402d...@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 1:10 am, "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
Bjorn Lonborg appears to have been right, for certain.
JG
Vid...@tcq.net
> a...@lava.net (al Guacamole) wrote innews:aa7fab79-4dc4-402d...@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Disturbing story. Looks like govts need to work together on this.
>
> As usual, governments are looked to to provide a fix for a problem
> they created, while not actually stopping the practices that created
> the problem in the first place.
>
> --
as usual bert misses the real problem. millions of small farmers in
the third world have been forced off of their traditional lands by
free trade agreements, and into ghettos where they are further
exploited for cheap labor by the private sector. so they can no longer
support themselves food wise.
johnny@.
> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
> Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
>
There is plenty of food just like there is plenty of gas. The problem
is, people don't make enough money to pay for it.
We are going to have the same situation in the United States, all the
decent pay jobs are being lost to Mexico, while millions of illegal
Mexicans sneak across the border to lower wages even more.
Daryl Hunt
"John Galt" <whoisj...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:bz6Nj.32515$pm2....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> "al Guacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:aa7fab79-4dc4-402d...@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 1:10 am, "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
>> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
>> The current crisis was ignited by a number of elements coming together
>> in deadly tandem. Analysts say the most important one - the jump in
>> global fuel prices - has triggered a chain reaction in the entire
>> food-production system, from seed planting right through to the delivery
>> process.
>>
>> http://www.thestar.com/article/413769
>
> Disturbing story. Looks like govts need to work together on this.
Up until about a hundred years ago, when these things happened, Governments
did step in. They took that surplus of population into war against the
other countries surplus population. This sounds terrible but dying in war
was much more humane than slowly dying of starvation. It still is but we
now frown on wars by the same countries that have done this for thousands of
years for exactly the same reasons.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
John Galt
"Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote in message
news:2d14f$480546d7$66...@news.teranews.com...
True enough. However, it should be added that the most developed nations
don't have nearly the number of children they had back then, either.
Bottom line, though, is that we're in a pickle.
JG
Daryl Hunt
Actually, they have more. In Africa, one of the problems is that they
population has exceeded the means of the farming. The same can be said for
many areas including much of Asia. Although China seems to have backed off,
they do have many times the number of people than they did during the City
State days. But they seem to be scaling back. Not so for countries like
India who are expanding in population.
The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I spent
quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a factor
and there is some or little done about it.
The Haves should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen in the
US. And if you look at most countries with extreme hunger in it you will
find that the moneys are there to help cushion the starvation but it's
stolen by officials and placed into making their lavish livelyhood more
"Bareble". But this has how it's always been. The only thing missing is
what to do with the excess hungry people. I am quite proud of the French in
the 19th century who reacted negatively to the phrase, "Let them eat Cake".
al Guacamole
> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I spent
> quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
> starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
> places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a factor
> and there is some or little done about it.
I didn't realise that we had fed so many people in the last 100 years?
But we do need to also address hunger in this country through our
govt.
> The Haves should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen in the
> US. And if you look at most countries with extreme hunger in it you will
> find that the moneys are there to help cushion the starvation but it's
> stolen by officials and placed into making their lavish livelyhood more
> "Bareble". But this has how it's always been. The only thing missing is
> what to do with the excess hungry people. I am quite proud of the French in
> the 19th century who reacted negatively to the phrase, "Let them eat Cake".
No only in the US but also even in Africa. It would do wonders for the
African economy if farmers in poverty could be paid more for their
food.
johnny@.
The late South African economist William Hutt, in his book "The
Economics of the Colour Bar," argued that one of the supreme tragedies
of the human condition is that those who have been the victims of
injustices or oppression "can often be observed to be inflicting not
dissimilar injustices upon other races."
In 1893, with the military backing of the British government, Cecil
Rhodes (namesake for the Rhodes Scholarship) confiscated land that had
been settled and owned by the Ndebele and Matabele peoples. He
established what was known as Rhodesia, a country that became the jewel
of Africa, with its mining and agricultural riches. In a word, Rhodesia,
now Zimbabwe, became a net food exporter and the "bread basket" for
wheat and corn for its own people and most of East Africa. By the 1960s,
Rhodesia's per capita income and education were one of Africa's highest.
In 1980, Robert Mugabe, a Marxist-socialist, became its leader. As Hutt
might have predicted, Mugabe began his oppression of other peoples.
Starting in 1983, he used his North Korean-trained Fifth Brigade to
brutally massacre thousands of Ndebele civilians, a brutality that
included hacking to death and disembowelment. Later in the '80s, Mugabe
started attacking the rule of law, harassing and suppressing Zimbabwe's
free press and news media, and arresting dissenters. Opposition party
leaders are now imprisoned and faced with kangaroo-court trials. Just
recently, Mugabe ensured his president-for-life status by openly rigging
national elections.
Zimbabwe has come full circle. Mugabe has created a disaster for both
black and white Zimbabweans in the name of reparations and land
redistribution. He has outdone the injustices of Cecil Rhodes, who by
the way, was an avowed racist. Members of his ZANU-PF party have torched
at least 10 million acres of cropland and prevented millions of others
from being farmed. Per capita income, $380 a year, is about half of what
it was just five years earlier. On top of that, inflation has reached
125 percent and is climbing.
Soon we'll see pictures of emaciated children flashing across our
television screens and calls for food assistance. The U.N. Food and
Agriculture Organization and the World Food Programme estimate that
millions of Zimbabweans face imminent starvation. The politically
correct cause of Zimbabwe's looming famine is drought. Yes, it's true
that drought has been a problem, but Mugabe's politics is a better
explanation of why millions of his countrymen face starvation.
One naturally asks where the Congressional Black Caucus, NAACP and other
civil rights organizations – who in the 1960s were demonstrating and
calling for the end of English rule – are. There's a deafening silence,
the same silence when Africa's black tyrants elsewhere on the continent
commit brutalities making those committed by former colonial masters
pale in comparison. Their positions don't differ from one that holds
that blacks are exempted from the civilized standards of conduct
demanded from whites. Or might it be that America's civil-rights
establishment feels that brutalization of blacks by blacks doesn't hurt
as much?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29127
Jason
The Deniliquin mill in Australia, the largest rice mill in the Southern
Hemisphere, once processed enough grain to satisfy the daily needs of 20
million people. But six long years of drought have taken a toll, reducing
Australia's rice crop by 98 percent and leading to the mothballing of the
mill last December.
Ten thousand miles separate the mill's hushed rows of oversized silos and
sheds - beige, gray and now empty - from the riotous streets of
Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but a widening global crisis unites them.
The collapse of Australia's rice production is one of several factors
contributing to a doubling of rice prices in the last three months -
increases that have led the world's largest exporters to restrict exports
severely, spurred panicked hoarding in Hong Kong and the Philippines, and
set off violent protests in countries including Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia,
Haiti, Indonesia, Italy, Ivory Coast, Mauritania, the Philippines, Thailand,
Uzbekistan and Yemen.
Drought affects every agricultural industry based here, not just rice - from
sheepherding, the other mainstay in this dusty land, to the cultivation of
wine grapes, the fastest-growing crop here, with that expansion often coming
at the expense of rice.
The drought's effect on rice has produced the greatest impact on the rest of
the world, so far. It is one factor contributing to skyrocketing prices, and
many scientists believe it is among the earliest signs that a warming planet
is starting to affect food production.
While a link between short-term changes in weather and long-term climate
change is not certain, the unusually severe drought is consistent with what
climatologists predict will be a problem of increasing frequency.
<johnny@.> wrote in message
news:mpvNj.8648$DY1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> civil rights organizations - who in the 1960s were demonstrating and
> calling for the end of English rule - are. There's a deafening silence,
John Galt
DEVELOPED nation birthrates have dropped to replacement levels or below, and
as standards of living rise in other nations, birthrates fall. That's why
world population is expected to peak mid-century, then start to drop off.
< In Africa, one of the problems is that they
> population has exceeded the means of the farming. The same can be said
> for many areas including much of Asia. Although China seems to have
> backed off, they do have many times the number of people than they did
> during the City State days. But they seem to be scaling back. Not so for
> countries like India who are expanding in population.
>
> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I spent
> quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
> starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
> places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a
> factor and there is some or little done about it.
Define "factor."
There's no doubt that starvation exists everywhere. There's not much in the
US. The biggest health problem of the poor is obesity-induced diabetes.
JG
Daryl Hunt
>
> "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote in message
> news:8dd08$48064777$24...@news.teranews.com...
>>>
>>
>> Actually, they have more.
>
> DEVELOPED nation birthrates have dropped to replacement levels or below,
> and as standards of living rise in other nations, birthrates fall. That's
> why world population is expected to peak mid-century, then start to drop
> off.
Ah, developed nations. Let's forget about the "Developing" and the
"Undeveloped" Nations that make up over half the worlds population.
>
>
> < In Africa, one of the problems is that they
>> population has exceeded the means of the farming. The same can be said
>> for many areas including much of Asia. Although China seems to have
>> backed off, they do have many times the number of people than they did
>> during the City State days. But they seem to be scaling back. Not so
>> for countries like India who are expanding in population.
>>
>> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
>> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I spent
>> quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
>> starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
>> places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a
>> factor and there is some or little done about it.
>
> Define "factor."
>
> There's no doubt that starvation exists everywhere. There's not much in
> the US. The biggest health problem of the poor is obesity-induced
> diabetes.
Guess you don't understand the process of slowly starving to death. The
Body gets hungry, real hungry and finds it needs to store food when it
becomes available. It robs it from other parts of the body for that storage
or the starving person eats until they are stuffed. This is why the bloated
bellies are what you are calling "Obesity" induced diabetes may occur
although I haven't heard of it happening. But it definately could.
John Galt
>
> "John Galt" <whoisj...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> news:DbGNj.64704$Uf4....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>> "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote in message
>> news:8dd08$48064777$24...@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, though, is that we're in a pickle.
>>>
>>> Actually, they have more.
>>
>> DEVELOPED nation birthrates have dropped to replacement levels or below,
>> and as standards of living rise in other nations, birthrates fall. That's
>> why world population is expected to peak mid-century, then start to drop
>> off.
>
> Ah, developed nations. Let's forget about the "Developing" and the
> "Undeveloped" Nations that make up over half the worlds population.
No, let's not. Rather, let's remember that I was responding to a pointed
comment you made about past governments controlling population by waging
war, and remembering that the context of my response was simply to point out
that many of the countries that used to engage in said activity no longer
need to do so for that reason.
>
>>
>>
>> < In Africa, one of the problems is that they
>>> population has exceeded the means of the farming. The same can be said
>>> for many areas including much of Asia. Although China seems to have
>>> backed off, they do have many times the number of people than they did
>>> during the City State days. But they seem to be scaling back. Not so
>>> for countries like India who are expanding in population.
>>>
>>> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
>>> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I
>>> spent quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
>>> starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
>>> places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a
>>> factor and there is some or little done about it.
>>
>> Define "factor."
>>
>> There's no doubt that starvation exists everywhere. There's not much in
>> the US. The biggest health problem of the poor is obesity-induced
>> diabetes.
>
> Guess you don't understand the process of slowly starving to death.
I understand it well. It's actually possible to starve while having plenty
to eat, you may not be aware. HOWEVER, we are still at the point of me
asking you to defend your rather irresponsible implication that starvation
is a major problem in the US. I've spent a good deal of time teaching in
some of the poorest areas of certain major US cities, and I can tell you
categorically that the number of kids in such schools that actually have a
HUNGER problem can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
JG
Jerry Okamura
and throw it into the mix. As we speak, policy makers in the United States
are pushing for the increase production of ethanol. In order to produce
ethanol, you have to grow something. That requires water.
On the issue of the claim that if global warming occurs, there will be less
water. That part I do not understand. Water is basically trapped and does
not "escape" into space. So, where does this water go, if it is not falling
back to earth from time to time?
Jason
beginning of the 19th century. Since then, the world's population has grown
exponentially to over 6.5 billion. We now add about 75 people every 30
seconds.
The world uses 2.1 trillion cubic meters of water every year--the equivalent
of draining Lake Superior--the largest lake in the world--twice! That's 17.5
million gallons of water every second. To put that in perspective--we use
41,000 gallons of oil every second
Water is unevenly distributed across the populated regions of the world,
. North Americans use 1,280 cubic meters
. Europeans and Australians use 694 cubic meters
. Asians use 535 cubic meters
. South Americans use 311 cubic meters
. Africans use 186 cubic meters
Boiled down to its simplest implications, this scenario shows 1) that we
only have enough fresh water capacity to support about half of world demand
and 2) nearly 25% of the world's population (1.5 billion) lack adequate
water for drinking and sanitation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potable_water#Access_to_drinking_water
As of the year 2006 (and pre-existing for at least three decades), there is
a substantial shortfall in availability of potable water in less developed
countries, primarily arising from industrial contamination and pollution. As
of the year 2000, 25 percent of the populations of lesser developed
countries did not have access to safe drinking water Implications for
disease propagation are significant. Some 1.8million million people die
every year from drinking unsafe water.
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:48079348$0$9554$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Daryl Hunt
>
> "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote in message
> news:49804$48076149$92...@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "John Galt" <whoisj...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>> news:DbGNj.64704$Uf4....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote in message
>>> news:8dd08$48064777$24...@news.teranews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line, though, is that we're in a pickle.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, they have more.
>>>
>>> DEVELOPED nation birthrates have dropped to replacement levels or below,
>>> and as standards of living rise in other nations, birthrates fall.
>>> That's why world population is expected to peak mid-century, then start
>>> to drop off.
>>
>> Ah, developed nations. Let's forget about the "Developing" and the
>> "Undeveloped" Nations that make up over half the worlds population.
>
> No, let's not. Rather, let's remember that I was responding to a pointed
> comment you made about past governments controlling population by waging
> war, and remembering that the context of my response was simply to point
> out that many of the countries that used to engage in said activity no
> longer need to do so for that reason.
And many "Un" and "Under" developed nations still try it but the "Civilized"
world keeps it to a dull roar. Or at least tries to.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> < In Africa, one of the problems is that they
>>>> population has exceeded the means of the farming. The same can be said
>>>> for many areas including much of Asia. Although China seems to have
>>>> backed off, they do have many times the number of people than they did
>>>> during the City State days. But they seem to be scaling back. Not so
>>>> for countries like India who are expanding in population.
>>>>
>>>> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
>>>> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I
>>>> spent quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is
>>>> still starvation there and little or some is being done about it.
>>>> There are places in most major cities where starvation or near
>>>> starvation is a factor and there is some or little done about it.
>>>
>>> Define "factor."
>>>
>>> There's no doubt that starvation exists everywhere. There's not much in
>>> the US. The biggest health problem of the poor is obesity-induced
>>> diabetes.
>>
>> Guess you don't understand the process of slowly starving to death.
>
> I understand it well. It's actually possible to starve while having plenty
> to eat, you may not be aware. HOWEVER, we are still at the point of me
> asking you to defend your rather irresponsible implication that starvation
> is a major problem in the US. I've spent a good deal of time teaching in
> some of the poorest areas of certain major US cities, and I can tell you
> categorically that the number of kids in such schools that actually have a
> HUNGER problem can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
I suggest you visit the 4 corners region where there are a few "Under"
nourished "Native" Americans. Most Nations are doing just fine but a couple
or three have a real starvation problem and depend heavily on the
Generousity of others just to get by. Not all "Indians" have those nifty
Casinos and not all are on land that are actually water plentiful and able
to raise decent food. Yes, it is part by choice, they could leave their
homes and lose whatever little stripend they recieve from some 19th century
agreement but that is tantamount to leaving ones country to go to another.
As for counting on one hand the Hunger Problems in the Inner Cities, even
one finger is too many.
star...@yahoo.com
> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
> Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
Absolutely. Since we've basically financed war after conflict after
invasion, we've basically made it clear that there is no value to
human life nor to sustain it.
> This week, food riots paralyzed Haiti, with angry marchers outside the
> president's palace shouting "We are hungry!" Five people were killed in the
> chaos.
>
> In Egypt, a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed this week in two days of
> violence over food shortages. Last month, a two-week protest at
> government-subsidized bakeries ended with the deaths of 10 Egyptians in
> clashes with police.
Welcome to your future, America. Food riots by the fall in LA??
> Rice is the staple food of 4 billion people. But the prices for it,
> along with corn, wheat and other basics, has surged by 40 per cent to 80
> per cent in the last three years and caused panicked uprisings in some
> of the poorest countries on Earth, from Cameroon to Bolivia.
>
> The situation has deteriorated so swiftly that some experts predict the
> effects of a global food crisis are going to bite more quickly than
> climate change.
Mainly because this will be fairly close to immediate -- with the only
real solutions either to reverse the madness we have done to ourselves
as a political planet, or force massive population extermination. It
will be one or the other -- choose.
> According to the World Bank, 33 countries are now vulnerable to social
> unrest and political instability because of food insecurity - and that
> has implications for all the rest. Major rice producers like China,
> Cambodia and Vietnam are already battening down, curbing exports to
> ensure supplies for their own populations. The Philippines, whose
> population has grown from 60 million to almost 90 million in 17 years,
> is warning rice hoarders they'll be charged with economic sabotage.
One has to think that the United States' day to be put on that list is
coming very very soon.
> Why is it happening? Was Malthus right when he said the world would
> eventually be too populated to feed itself?
Yep.
Mike
John Galt
That would nto suprise me in the least. We're not discussing if there is NO
hunger, we're discussing if there is a major problem with it in the US.
> Most Nations are doing just fine but a couple or three have a real
> starvation problem and depend heavily on the Generousity of others just to
> get by. Not all "Indians" have those nifty Casinos and not all are on
> land that are actually water plentiful and able to raise decent food.
> Yes, it is part by choice, they could leave their homes and lose whatever
> little stripend they recieve from some 19th century agreement but that is
> tantamount to leaving ones country to go to another.
>
> As for counting on one hand the Hunger Problems in the Inner Cities, even
> one finger is too many.
No, you need one. There's pretty consistently one kid who only eats at
school.
JG
*us*
>On the issue of the claim that if global warming occurs, there will be less
>water. That part I do not understand ...
That's a drop in the ocean of what you don't understand, Jerry.
Jerry Okamura
atmosphere. It does not just disappear. It evaporates, and then condenses
in the atomoshere to come back down to earth in the form or rain or snow.
"* US *" wrote in message news:62nf04lv04c02ck3q...@4ax.com...
Jerry Okamura
<star...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e931c657-b7dd-4895...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 4:10 am, "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
> Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
Absolutely. Since we've basically financed war after conflict after
invasion, we've basically made it clear that there is no value to
human life nor to sustain it.
Wars can be beneficial. Wars reduce the population by the number of people
who die in a war. Fewer people, means fewer people that need to be fed.
> This week, food riots paralyzed Haiti, with angry marchers outside the
> president's palace shouting "We are hungry!" Five people were killed in
> the
> chaos.
>
> In Egypt, a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed this week in two days of
> violence over food shortages. Last month, a two-week protest at
> government-subsidized bakeries ended with the deaths of 10 Egyptians in
> clashes with police.
Welcome to your future, America. Food riots by the fall in LA??
No. In the United States, we produce more food that our population needs to
survive.
> Rice is the staple food of 4 billion people. But the prices for it,
> along with corn, wheat and other basics, has surged by 40 per cent to 80
> per cent in the last three years and caused panicked uprisings in some
> of the poorest countries on Earth, from Cameroon to Bolivia.
>
> The situation has deteriorated so swiftly that some experts predict the
> effects of a global food crisis are going to bite more quickly than
> climate change.
Mainly because this will be fairly close to immediate -- with the only
real solutions either to reverse the madness we have done to ourselves
as a political planet, or force massive population extermination. It
will be one or the other -- choose.
It may come to past that we do reach some sort of "tipping point". But
people have been making such a prediction for an awful long time now, and
yet we continue to see the population of the world increase.
> According to the World Bank, 33 countries are now vulnerable to social
> unrest and political instability because of food insecurity - and that
> has implications for all the rest. Major rice producers like China,
> Cambodia and Vietnam are already battening down, curbing exports to
> ensure supplies for their own populations. The Philippines, whose
> population has grown from 60 million to almost 90 million in 17 years,
> is warning rice hoarders they'll be charged with economic sabotage.
One has to think that the United States' day to be put on that list is
coming very very soon.
That day is a a long way away. The United States still produces more food
that its population needs to survive.
Fran
> "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
In the case of Australia, the rain belt is moving south towards the
Antarctic, and falling into the Great Southern Ocean. There is also
increased precipitation at the poles. The water doesn't disappear,
obviously, but it does wind up in places that are less useful for
argiculture.
In terms of human utility, there is, as you imply, just as much and as
little water as there was about 4.5 billion years ago, but where it
is, and in what form, matters given that we all need it. In theory,
one could extract it from the sea and ship it wherever it was needed,
but of course both desalinating water and then transporting it is not
cheap in either energy or infrastructure, so it's obviously a lot
better if the hydrosphere does us the favour of depositing optimal
amounts of potable water where (and when) it would do the most good.
The record on that has always been patchy and so we humans have chosen
the locations that bets fit the patterns, but with changing rainfall
and a densely populated planet and much hungrier and thirstier
population, the room to manoeuvre is plainly much narrower.
Fran
*us*
>... implication that starvation
>is a major problem in the US ...
Malnourishment certainly is.
John Galt
"Fran" <Fran...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af0caeec-e504-40c1...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Fran
**
[JG] Thanks. All interesting information.
I was hanging out with colleagues in Vegas (no water) last week, and we were
talking about the regional differences in water supply in the US. Obviously
SW US, most of California, and Nevada with is (or would be, without
automated watering) a desert, or at least arid. I'm from upstate New York
and live on the Gulf Coast, have lived in New Jersey and Minnesota -- all
areas that have no shortage of H20. One guy was from New Hampshire -- more
water than you know what to do with, but you just can't ship this stuff
across the country (well, you can -- private industry is pretty good at
moving huge amounts of oil around via pipeline).
Perhaps one day such will have to occur for water. I wouldn't want to ship
water to Vegas so they can have lush lawns, golf courses, and to feed the
fountain in front of the Bellagio, but if I was convinced that they were
being reasonably responsible and the water would be properly used, no
problem.
JG
Fran
> "Fran" <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote in message
If you have existing robust infrastructure, then obviously, the costs
decline, but water is such heavy stuff that it's just enromously
costly to move and obviously, the smaller the vessels through which
you need to moive it to deliver if effectively, the more costly it all
becomes. Storing it is also costly, especially if you want to avoid
evaporation and contamination at the same time.
During the last 100 years in the west, people have not placed a high
value on water -- the phrase 'using it like water' comes to mind --
and so we've tended to be pretty wasteful of it.
> Perhaps one day such will have to occur for water. I wouldn't want to ship
> water to Vegas so they can have lush lawns, golf courses, and to feed the
> fountain in front of the Bellagio, but if I was convinced that they were
> being reasonably responsible and the water would be properly used, no
> problem.
>
Shipping water to places so they can have lush lawns or golf courses
or feed fountains wouldn't be 'reasonably responsible' in my opinion,
but if those wanting to use it this way were willing to pay the full
and true environmental cost of doing this, I wouldn't have an
objection.
I'd be in favour of *everyone* doing this, while seeking of course to
make maximal use of waste and recycled water resources, encouraging
the use of grey water through sub-surface irrigation and so forth.
Fran
John Galt
Fran
[JG] Agreed. When I was a kid, we lived on a street that had a creek running
through the back downstream from a sewage plant. Not clean. We (and everyone
else on the street) had pumps that took water from the creek and dumped it
on the lawn. Not potable, but the lawns and trees loved it.
Of course., that would require an alternative duplicate water supply system
in every district in the US. Expensive. I used to live in India, and beleive
me, you don't want the two supplies mixing together.
OTOH, I agree that the problem can be largely solved by pricing. Despite an
abundance of water, the district I am in just adopted a three-tiered pricing
system for water. Use under X, you pay X; use over X, you pay a premium
above X, and use like 2X, you pay 2X per gallon. Use the water if you're so
inclined, but it encourages people to move towards less lawn and more
Southwestern, low-water landscapes.
JG
Daryl Hunt
One hungry belly should be taken care of. Two hungry bellies should be
crime. Hunger in the US just shouldn't happen and it takes very little to
take care of. Jobs is the answer and if a Parent is not feeding their
children, do they really need to have those children? Why I am not a large
proponent of the Social Service getting involved in the families private
lives, when hunger is involved, that's no longer the "Right" of the Parent
but becomes the "Right" of the Child.
>
>> Most Nations are doing just fine but a couple or three have a real
>> starvation problem and depend heavily on the Generousity of others just
>> to get by. Not all "Indians" have those nifty Casinos and not all are on
>> land that are actually water plentiful and able to raise decent food.
>> Yes, it is part by choice, they could leave their homes and lose whatever
>> little stripend they recieve from some 19th century agreement but that is
>> tantamount to leaving ones country to go to another.
>>
>> As for counting on one hand the Hunger Problems in the Inner Cities, even
>> one finger is too many.
>
> No, you need one. There's pretty consistently one kid who only eats at
> school.
Yes, the school lunch program. That is only a symptom showing there IS a
problem. It isn't a fix. It's just a bandaid.
Daryl Hunt
"* US *" wrote in message news:pjtf041crdbe8rn7j...@4ax.com...
Yes, getting the wrong foods made available has always been a problem. Not
enough Fruits, Veggies, Proteins, vitamins, etc.. When all you have
avialable is what is cheap and plentiful, there is a reason it's cheap and
plentiful. Jobs are still the answer. And not the kind of job where
Minimum Wage gets you Minimum People but real jobs that pays a Living Wage.
Many of the jobs that were done by teenagers for extra money in the 60s and
back are not being filled with Bread Winners needing an income to feed
themselves and their families. Ah, the next social problem.
Justin Case
Yep.
Mike
What the hell are you responding to? The food shortages have nothing to do
with our military conflicts. Australia's very large rice growing industry
has all but been eliminated because of a long draught. The rice crop of our
southern states has been greatly reduced because of weather as has much of
the rice growing capability of other rice growing countries. The problem is
essentially because of left wing nut jobs advocating use of food for fuel.
Only stupid people (read left wing nutjobs) would even dream about using a
food staple to supplement fuel. Left wing nutjobs are responsible for the
present food shortages and soon will bare the fault of elimination of
personal freedoms within this country. Your next and worst disaster is
going to be the buying and selling of carbon credits and the fault lies with
the left wing socialists. It is the left wing environmentalists who
advocate vastly reducing the world population to sustain their vision of
nirvana. Of course, it will be a select few of the very enlightened who
will tell the rest of the common people how to live.
Justin Case
Regardless of the prosperity and charity of a culture, there will always be
those who are hungry. Yes, some children are hungry because their families
are in need but how many families are really in need? Do they carry a cell
phone? Have an MP3? Have cable TV at home? Air conditioning?
Justin Case
>
> <star...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e931c657-b7dd-4895...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 4:10 am, "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
>> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
>> Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
>
> Absolutely. Since we've basically financed war after conflict after
> invasion, we've basically made it clear that there is no value to
> human life nor to sustain it.
Your response is irrelevent to the post.
>
> Wars can be beneficial. Wars reduce the population by the number of
> people who die in a war. Fewer people, means fewer people that need to be
> fed.
>
>> This week, food riots paralyzed Haiti, with angry marchers outside the
>> president's palace shouting "We are hungry!" Five people were killed in
>> the
>> chaos.
>>
>> In Egypt, a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed this week in two days of
>> violence over food shortages. Last month, a two-week protest at
>> government-subsidized bakeries ended with the deaths of 10 Egyptians in
>> clashes with police.
>
> Welcome to your future, America. Food riots by the fall in LA??
What part of the US is Egypt?
>
> No. In the United States, we produce more food that our population needs
> to survive.
Except rice produced in Souther states was greatly reduced because of
weather, same as other rice producing countries. India has restricted rice
exports so, by your reasooning, India is responsible for starvation in other
countries.
>
>> Rice is the staple food of 4 billion people. But the prices for it,
>> along with corn, wheat and other basics, has surged by 40 per cent to 80
>> per cent in the last three years and caused panicked uprisings in some
>> of the poorest countries on Earth, from Cameroon to Bolivia.
>>
>> The situation has deteriorated so swiftly that some experts predict the
>> effects of a global food crisis are going to bite more quickly than
>> climate change.
>
> Mainly because this will be fairly close to immediate -- with the only
> real solutions either to reverse the madness we have done to ourselves
> as a political planet, or force massive population extermination. It
> will be one or the other -- choose.
>
> It may come to past that we do reach some sort of "tipping point". But
> people have been making such a prediction for an awful long time now, and
> yet we continue to see the population of the world increase.
>
>> According to the World Bank, 33 countries are now vulnerable to social
>> unrest and political instability because of food insecurity - and that
>> has implications for all the rest. Major rice producers like China,
>> Cambodia and Vietnam are already battening down, curbing exports to
>> ensure supplies for their own populations. The Philippines, whose
>> population has grown from 60 million to almost 90 million in 17 years,
>> is warning rice hoarders they'll be charged with economic sabotage.
>
> One has to think that the United States' day to be put on that list is
> coming very very soon.
All the more reason to control immigration into this country and to take
strong action against those who are here illegally.
>
> That day is a a long way away. The United States still produces more food
> that its population needs to survive.
And we still assist the rest of the world.
>
>
*us*
>As I understand the science of water...
You don't really understand, Jerry.
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Nov/17-201047.html
*us*
You're right, of course.
We'll also need to start replenishing the soils and
quit using hazmat for fertilizer.
Fruits and vegetables aren't as nourishing today
as they were decades ago.
Jerry Okamura
"* US *" wrote in message news:opdm04p72ed4aoujk...@4ax.com...
*us*
>There is nothing ...
You can't see much where you store your head, Jerry.
Daryl Hunt
>
> "Justin Case" <Thin...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:KsaOj.2186$I55...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> program. Bling-bling, new Nikes, NFL and NBA jerseys, uniforms, and
> parkas......
>
> JG
This is why I have to question if the parents of those kids really should
have those kids. That brings up another problem. What do we do with them
after we take them from their crappy parents? Yet another problem rises
it's ugly head.
Jerry Okamura
"* US *" wrote in message news:kk6n04h5s8c59u0sv...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 06:40:57 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>There is nothing ...
>
> You can't see much where you store your head, Jerry.
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:21:36 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>As I understand the science of water...
>
> You don't really understand, Jerry.
>
> http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Nov/17-201047.html
Your reference did not say there would be a reduction of water. It said
their may be a reduction of water from other sources that the ocean....
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:13:30 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On the issue of the claim that if global warming occurs, there will be
>>less
>>water. That part I do not understand ...
>
> That's a drop in the ocean of what you don't understand, Jerry.
Huh? The global warming people have said that sea levels will rise, not
drop. A rise in the sea levels means more water in the sea....
Daryl Hunt
"* US *" wrote in message news:hiem041hre3kvsucd...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:55:39 -0600, "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"* US *" wrote in message
>>news:pjtf041crdbe8rn7j...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:28:23 -0500, "John Galt"
>>> <whoisj...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>... implication that starvation
>>>>is a major problem in the US ...
>>>
>>> Malnourishment certainly is.
>>
>>Yes, getting the wrong foods made available has always been a problem.
>>Not
>>enough Fruits, Veggies, Proteins, vitamins, etc.. When all you have
>>avialable is what is cheap and plentiful, there is a reason it's cheap and
>>plentiful. Jobs are still the answer. And not the kind of job where
>>Minimum Wage gets you Minimum People but real jobs that pays a Living
>>Wage.
>>Many of the jobs that were done by teenagers for extra money in the 60s
>>and
>>back are not being filled with Bread Winners needing an income to feed
>>themselves and their families. Ah, the next social problem.
>
> You're right, of course.
wow, that makes two of us in that agreement.
>
> We'll also need to start replenishing the soils and
> quit using hazmat for fertilizer.
Not going to happen and maintain low costs at the Supermarket. Check out
the prices on the foods specifically labeled "Organically Grown". Are you
ready so remove all the "UN" organically grown products from the market at
this time? Are you ready to subsidize those "Orgainally Grown" Farmers to
encourage them to grow more and to keep the costs at the Supermarket low so
all can afford to eat? Ah, yet another Social Economic Problem jumps up and
bites us.
>
> Fruits and vegetables aren't as nourishing today
> as they were decades ago.
Huh, Our Apples are exactly as nutritionous today as when I was a kid. And
I hanven't been a kid for more than a few decades.
John Galt
Can't go there. Fascism, and all that.
Besides, a lot of those parents are good parents. It's not their fault that
they government wants to feed their kids, and they still make enough to
afford all that stuff.
Consider it government subsidized bling-bling. If you feed the kids of
families all the way up to the lower middle class, then they don't have to
spend as much on groceries, and they can afford the Nikes.
JG
Daryl Hunt
So, we all feed those kids and those kids and parents dress better than we
do and drive better cars. This is better than what again?
I feel that the programs should be continued but let's take a case by case
look at things. If that kid sidles up to that feed trough and he clearly is
dressed above what should be a standard of acceptance, let the kid eat. But
bill the parents for that meal. If the parent doesn't like the deal, three
things happen: they stop squandering what little money they have on those
frivolous items that they can ill afford, start actually feeding their kids
breakfast or continue with the program and help finance the meals.
John Galt
It's not better than anything, but try to cut the program in this country
and all you'd hear from the leftists is how you want to starve children. So,
the politicians who would want to means-test the program more accurately
stay away. It's a third rail.
>
> I feel that the programs should be continued but let's take a case by case
> look at things. If that kid sidles up to that feed trough and he clearly
> is dressed above what should be a standard of acceptance, let the kid eat.
> But bill the parents for that meal. If the parent doesn't like the deal,
> three things happen: they stop squandering what little money they have on
> those frivolous items that they can ill afford, start actually feeding
> their kids breakfast or continue with the program and help finance the
> meals.
There's no question that there's better ways to do it.
JG
*us*
>...a reduction of water...
Why do you imagine something so stupid?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 06:40:57 -1000, "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>There is nothing ...
You can't see much where you store your head, Jerry.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:21:36 -1000, "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>As I understand the science of water...
You don't really understand, Jerry.
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Nov/17-201047.html
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:13:30 -1000, "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
*us*
>"* US *" wrote in message news:hiem041hre3kvsucd...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:55:39 -0600, "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote:
>>>"* US *" wrote in message news:pjtf041crdbe8rn7j...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:28:23 -0500, "John Galt" <whoisj...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>>>>>... implication that starvation
>>>>>is a major problem in the US ...
>>>> Malnourishment certainly is.
>>>Yes, getting the wrong foods made available has always been a problem.
>>>Not enough Fruits, Veggies, Proteins, vitamins, etc.. When all you have
>>>avialable is what is cheap and plentiful, there is a reason it's cheap and
>>>plentiful. Jobs are still the answer. And not the kind of job where
>>>Minimum Wage gets you Minimum People but real jobs that pays a Living Wage.
>>>Many of the jobs that were done by teenagers for extra money in the 60s and
>>>back are no[w] being filled with Bread Winners needing an income to feed
>>>themselves and their families. Ah, the next social problem.
>> You're right, of course.
>
>wow, that makes two of us in that agreement.
There are others.
>> We'll also need to start replenishing the soils and
>> quit using hazmat for fertilizer.
>
>Not going to happen and maintain low costs at the Supermarket.
Unsustainable methods will actually drive those higher.
Priced a farm tank full of diesel lately?
http://www.sare.org/publications/organic/organic07.htm
>Check out
>the prices on the foods specifically labeled "Organically Grown". Are you
>ready [t]o remove all the "UN" organically grown products from the market at
>this time?
Why would that be relevant to the fact
that 'cheaper' unhealthy food costs more
than sustainable healthful crops longterm?
>Are you ready to subsidize those "Orgainally Grown" Farmers to
>encourage them to grow more and to keep the costs at the Supermarket low so
>all can afford to eat?
People can afford to eat if their jobs aren't
outsourced and the production of butter
isn't replaced by that of bullets.
> Ah, yet another Social Economic Problem jumps up and
>bites us.
Speak for yourself. I'm doing the biting, not
being bitten, myself.
>> Fruits and vegetables aren't as nourishing today
>> as they were decades ago.
>
>Huh, Our Apples are exactly as nutritionous today as when I was a kid. And
On what would anyone base such a claim?
"Vital vitamins and minerals have dramatically declined in
some of our most popular foods, including potatoes, tomatoes,
bananas and apples, the analysis reveals."
http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Lack-Yesterdays-Nutrition6jul02.htm
You should look up more information on that
subject, as the fact remains that our fruits and
vegetables aren't as nourishing today as they
were decades ago.
"Some of the differences in vitamin and mineral content
were enormous-a 50% drop in the amount of calcium in
broccoli, for example. Watercress down 88% in iron content;
cauliflower down 40% in vitamin C content-all since 1975."
"...the produce we grow in the United States has lower levels
of several vitamins and minerals today than it did 50 to 60
years ago..."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/25/HOG3BHSDPG1.DTL
>I hanven't been a kid for more than a few decades.
"A similar analysis comparing British nutrient data from 1930 and 1980
indicates reductions of essential minerals in both fruits and vegetables.
According to the report, published in the British Food Journal (1997,
vol 99, no. 6, pp 207-211), average calcium content has declined 19
percent; iron, 22 percent; and potassium, 14 percent in the 20 vegetables
compared. The report's author, Anne-Marie Mayer, now at Cornell
University, says, "Changes in agricultural practice during this time
could have contributed to the decline鞠or instance, soil compaction,
use of agricultural chemicals, disruption of soil life, or lack of
organic matter."
Jason
essentially adding two Chinas to the number of people alive today. Those
billions will be seeking food, water and other resources on a planet where,
scientists say, humans are already shaping climate and the web of life.
At the present population of 6.5 billion, we have already passed two
important finite resource thresholds. Production of conventional crude
peaked in May, 2005,
at 74 million barrels a day. Since then, the world has met rising
consumption - now at about 88-million
barrels a day - by cutting inventories, tapping natural gas liquids that
typically are included in crude production figures and using better refinery
efficiencies
There is enough fresh water for only 3.5 billion people. .According to the
United Nations' World Health Organization (WHO) more than one billion people
in low and middle-income countries lack access to safe water for drinking,
personal hygiene and domestic use. These numbers represent more than 20
percent of the world's people. In addition, close to 3 billion people did
not have access to adequate sanitation facilities. The lack of water and the
lack of hygiene is one of the biggest problems that many poor countries have
encountered in progressing their way of living. The problem has reached such
endemic proportions that 2.2 million deaths per annum occur from unsanitary
water - ninety percent of these are children under the age of five
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potable_water#Access_to_drinking_water
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4804eb43$0$9546$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Interesting story that describes a problem. But no where did I find a
> solution to the problem. If you know of a problem, or you believe there
> is a problem and you have no solution to the problem, how do you solve the
> problem?
>
>
> "Jason" <jasonp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fu2393$j2h$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Riots over rising grain prices are ripping through the developing world
>> and the United Nations warns there's worse to come. Was Malthus right?
>> Are we getting too numerous to feed ourselves?
>>
>> This week, food riots paralyzed Haiti, with angry marchers outside the
>> president's palace shouting "We are hungry!" Five people were killed in
>> the
>> chaos.
>>
>> In Egypt, a 15-year-old boy was shot and killed this week in two days of
>> violence over food shortages. Last month, a two-week protest at
>> government-subsidized bakeries ended with the deaths of 10 Egyptians in
>> clashes with police.
>>
>> Rice is the staple food of 4 billion people. But the prices for it,
>> along with corn, wheat and other basics, has surged by 40 per cent to 80
>> per cent in the last three years and caused panicked uprisings in some
>> of the poorest countries on Earth, from Cameroon to Bolivia.
>>
>> The situation has deteriorated so swiftly that some experts predict the
>> effects of a global food crisis are going to bite more quickly than
>> climate change.
>>
>> According to the World Bank, 33 countries are now vulnerable to social
>> unrest and political instability because of food insecurity - and that
>> has implications for all the rest. Major rice producers like China,
>> Cambodia and Vietnam are already battening down, curbing exports to
>> ensure supplies for their own populations. The Philippines, whose
>> population has grown from 60 million to almost 90 million in 17 years,
>> is warning rice hoarders they'll be charged with economic sabotage.
>>
>> Why is it happening? Was Malthus right when he said the world would
>> eventually be too populated to feed itself?
>>
>> The United Nations already provides food for 73 million people in 78
>> countries worldwide. But the planet is getting hungrier. At least 4
>> million more people are being added to the list, most of them living in
>> high-density, Third World cities.
>>
>> The new face of hunger - and thirst - is overwhelmingly urban.
>>
>> It takes 1,000 tonnes of water to produce one tonne of food, but water
>> scarcity is affecting supplies. And, as Lester Brown, president of Earth
>> Policy Institute in Washington, has cautioned: "A future of water
>> shortages will be a future of food shortages."
>>
>> The current crisis was ignited by a number of elements coming together
>> in deadly tandem. Analysts say the most important one - the jump in
>> global fuel prices - has triggered a chain reaction in the entire
>> food-production system, from seed planting right through to the delivery
>> process.
>>
>> http://www.thestar.com/article/413769
>>
>>
>
Jerry Okamura
personal insults?
"* US *" wrote in message news:cbjn04dq79v80bcsp...@4ax.com...
Jerry Okamura
Jason
people are willing to pay for fresh water (made from ocean water), it
certainly can be had.
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:480cd7ff$0$12914$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Jerry Okamura
option. And they may not have a choice, if the population on the island
keeps increasing. They are struggling to provide enough water now, with the
demands and needs of a growing population and the demands of agriculture
(and since the State wants the agricultural sector to start producing
ethanol, that does not help the problem it seems to me, it just makes it a
bigger problem). It also seems to me, that one viable alternative, is not
too feasible on this island, that is the build more reservoirs, I do not
know where they would put it, where they could take advantage of the annual
rainfalll on the island to fill that resourvoir, which would be large enough
to meet the growing demand.
"Jason" <jasonp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fuiutt$fjv$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Jason
as specialized, expensive infrastructure, making it very costly compared to
the use of fresh water from rivers or groundwater.
See Tampa Bay utility
http://media.cleantech.com/2369/tampa-bay-desalination-plant-rises-again
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:480d26e2$0$12933$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Al Nakba
We should stop using grain for fuel, start drilling in the US, and
makev the asslifting sheetheads "an offer they can't refuse". It's
just that simple..
Al Nakba
> al Guacamole wroteX-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 16, 8:37 am, "Daryl Hunt" <dh...@nospami70west.com> wrote:
>
> >> The US can't feed the world anymore like it did for about 100 years.
> >> Starvation is a fact even in the US and that we need to address. I spent
> >> quite a bit of time near the 4 corners in the 50s. There is still
> >> starvation there and little or some is being done about it. There are
> >> places in most major cities where starvation or near starvation is a factor
> >> and there is some or little done about it.
>
> > But we do need to also address hunger in this country through our
> > govt.
>
> >> The Haves should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen in the
> >> US. And if you look at most countries with extreme hunger in it you will
> >> find that the moneys are there to help cushion the starvation but it's
> >> stolen by officials and placed into making their lavish livelyhood more
> >> "Bareble". But this has how it's always been. The only thing missing is
> >> what to do with the excess hungry people. I am quite proud of the French in
> >> the 19th century who reacted negatively to the phrase, "Let them eat Cake".
>
> > No only in the US but also even in Africa. It would do wonders for the
> > African economy if farmers in poverty could be paid more for their
> > food.
>
> The late South African economist William Hutt, in his book "The
> Economics of the Colour Bar," argued that one of the supreme tragedies
> of the human condition is that those who have been the victims of
> injustices or oppression "can often be observed to be inflicting not
> dissimilar injustices upon other races."
>
> In 1893, with the military backing of the British government, Cecil
> Rhodes (namesake for the Rhodes Scholarship) confiscated land that had
> been settled and owned by the Ndebele and Matabele peoples. He
> established what was known as Rhodesia, a country that became the jewel
> of Africa, with its mining and agricultural riches. In a word, Rhodesia,
> now Zimbabwe, became a net food exporter and the "bread basket" for
> wheat and corn for its own people and most of East Africa. By the 1960s,
> Rhodesia's per capita income and education were one of Africa's highest.
>
> In 1980, Robert Mugabe, a Marxist-socialist, became its leader. As Hutt
> might have predicted, Mugabe began his oppression of other peoples.
> Starting in 1983, he used his North Korean-trained Fifth Brigade to
> brutally massacre thousands of Ndebele civilians, a brutality that
> included hacking to death and disembowelment. Later in the '80s, Mugabe
> started attacking the rule of law, harassing and suppressing Zimbabwe's
> free press and news media, and arresting dissenters. Opposition party
> leaders are now imprisoned and faced with kangaroo-court trials. Just
> recently, Mugabe ensured his president-for-life status by openly rigging
> national elections.
>
> Zimbabwe has come full circle. Mugabe has created a disaster for both
> black and white Zimbabweans in the name of reparations and land
> redistribution. He has outdone the injustices of Cecil Rhodes, who by
> the way, was an avowed racist. Members of his ZANU-PF party have torched
> at least 10 million acres of cropland and prevented millions of others
> from being farmed. Per capita income, $380 a year, is about half of what
> it was just five years earlier. On top of that, inflation has reached
> 125 percent and is climbing.
>
> Soon we'll see pictures of emaciated children flashing across our
> television screens and calls for food assistance. The U.N. Food and
> Agriculture Organization and the World Food Programme estimate that
> millions of Zimbabweans face imminent starvation. The politically
> correct cause of Zimbabwe's looming famine is drought. Yes, it's true
> that drought has been a problem, but Mugabe's politics is a better
> explanation of why millions of his countrymen face starvation.
>
> One naturally asks where the Congressional Black Caucus, NAACP and other
> civil rights organizations – who in the 1960s were demonstrating and
> calling for the end of English rule – are. There's a deafening silence,
> the same silence when Africa's black tyrants elsewhere on the continent
> commit brutalities making those committed by former colonial masters
> pale in comparison. Their positions don't differ from one that holds
> that blacks are exempted from the civilized standards of conduct
> demanded from whites. Or might it be that America's civil-rights
> establishment feels that brutalization of blacks by blacks doesn't hurt
> as much?
>
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29127- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
they can't handle the truth..
*us*
>...resorting to
>personal insults
You insult yourself, and others, when you
play with your little straw men rather than
discuss the issues logically, Jerry.
Jerry Okamura
"* US *" wrote in message news:scir04tj6ame7i6d3...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:06:32 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>...resorting to
>>personal insults
>
> You insult yourself, and others, when you
> play with your little straw men rather than
> discuss the issues logically, Jerry.
>
Jerry Okamura
more important, having water or not having water.
"Jason" <jasonp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fujd6o$pfo$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
*us*
>Calling ...
You're merely trying to call names rather
than be honest, Jerry.
Nobody made the claims you tried to
suggest. That was dishonest of you.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:06:32 -1000, "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>...resorting to
>personal insults
You insult yourself, and others, when you
play with your little straw men rather than
discuss the issues logically, Jerry.
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:55:09 -1000, "Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Jason
The biggest threat to universal access to clean water and adequate
sanitation is not mother nature but corporate globalization. Privatization
of water is being aggressively exported to the developing world under the
rubric of poverty reduction and debt relief strategies, free trade and
economic development.
How would the people of Hawaii react to a privatization plan for water
rather than a desalination facility? Six countries in South America have
already gone this route.
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:480e12e6$0$3387$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Jerry Okamura
>
> The biggest threat to universal access to clean water and adequate
> sanitation is not mother nature but corporate globalization. Privatization
> of water is being aggressively exported to the developing world under the
> rubric of poverty reduction and debt relief strategies, free trade and
> economic development.
>
> How would the people of Hawaii react to a privatization plan for water
> rather than a desalination facility? Six countries in South America have
> already gone this route.
>
it, as long as we can get the water we need at that lower cost. But I may
also be willing to pay more for the water, if I can get the water. As
things stand now, our government control water system, keeps sending me
nasty letters, and sometimes even charging me more "if" they believe I have
used too much water in any given period of time (and that comes with a stiff
penalty in cost). So, 'if" someone can get me the water that I can use
without getting dinged when someone "thinks" I used too much water, I would
be happy as a clam. One of my pet peeves with the county, is my wife and I
have headed their request to reduce our use of water a long time ago, and we
have not changed that reduction in useage very much since. But, whenever
the country is running short on water, they send me a nasty letter asking me
to reduce our use of water, when we have already done so, and have not
increased our use of water.
Jason
boards and computer screens of America's great grain exchanges. At first, it
seemed like little more than a bout of bad weather.
n Chicago, Minneapolis and Kansas City, traders watched from the pits early
last summer as wheat prices spiked amid mediocre harvests in the United
States and Europe and signs of prolonged drought in Australia. But within a
few weeks, the traders discerned an ominous snowball effect -- one that
would eventually bring down a prime minister in Haiti, make more children in
Mauritania go to bed hungry, even cause American executives at Sam's Club to
restrict sales of large bags of rice.
As prices rose, major grain producers including Argentina and Ukraine,
battling inflation caused in part by soaring oil bills, were moving to bar
exports on a range of crops to control costs at home. It meant less supply
on world markets even as global demand entered a fundamentally new phase.
Already, corn prices had been climbing for months on the back of booming
government-subsidized ethanol programs. Soybeans were facing pressure from
surging demand in China. But as supplies in the pipelines of global trade
shrank, prices for corn, soybeans, wheat, oats, rice and other grains began
shooting through the roof.
continued at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/26/ST2008042602333.html?hpid=topnews
"Jason" <jasonp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fu6903$dds$2...@registered.motzarella.org...
> http://www.nytimes.com/services/xml/rss/userland/Business.xml
>
> The Deniliquin mill in Australia, the largest rice mill in the Southern
> Hemisphere, once processed enough grain to satisfy the daily needs of 20
> million people. But six long years of drought have taken a toll, reducing
> Australia's rice crop by 98 percent and leading to the mothballing of the
> mill last December.
> Ten thousand miles separate the mill's hushed rows of oversized silos and
> sheds - beige, gray and now empty - from the riotous streets of
> Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but a widening global crisis unites them.
>
> The collapse of Australia's rice production is one of several factors
> contributing to a doubling of rice prices in the last three months -
> increases that have led the world's largest exporters to restrict exports
> severely, spurred panicked hoarding in Hong Kong and the Philippines, and
> set off violent protests in countries including Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia,
> Haiti, Indonesia, Italy, Ivory Coast, Mauritania, the Philippines,
> Thailand,
> Uzbekistan and Yemen.
>
> Drought affects every agricultural industry based here, not just rice -
> from
> sheepherding, the other mainstay in this dusty land, to the cultivation of
> wine grapes, the fastest-growing crop here, with that expansion often
> coming
> at the expense of rice.
>
> The drought's effect on rice has produced the greatest impact on the rest
> of
> the world, so far. It is one factor contributing to skyrocketing prices,
> and
> many scientists believe it is among the earliest signs that a warming
> planet
> is starting to affect food production.
>
> While a link between short-term changes in weather and long-term climate
> change is not certain, the unusually severe drought is consistent with
> what
> climatologists predict will be a problem of increasing frequency.
>
> <johnny@.> wrote in message
> news:mpvNj.8648$DY1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> civil rights organizations - who in the 1960s were demonstrating and
>> calling for the end of English rule - are. There's a deafening silence,
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> The globe's worst food crisis in a generation emerged as a blip on
> the big boards and computer screens of America's great grain
> exchanges. At first, it seemed like little more than a bout of bad
> weather.
And it is only going to get worse if the green scum insist on bio fuels.
RickyBobby
> The globe's worst food crisis in a generation emerged as a blip on the big
> boards and computer screens of America's great grain exchanges. At first,
> it seemed like little more than a bout of bad weather.
>
> n Chicago, Minneapolis and Kansas City, traders watched from the pits
> early last summer as wheat prices spiked amid mediocre harvests in the
> United States and Europe and signs of prolonged drought in Australia. But
> within a few weeks, the traders discerned an ominous snowball effect --
> one that would eventually bring down a prime minister in Haiti, make more
> children in Mauritania go to bed hungry, even cause American executives at
> Sam's Club to restrict sales of large bags of rice.
> As prices rose, major grain producers including Argentina and Ukraine,
> battling inflation caused in part by soaring oil bills, were moving to bar
> exports on a range of crops to control costs at home. It meant less supply
> on world markets even as global demand entered a fundamentally new phase.
> Already, corn prices had been climbing for months on the back of booming
> government-subsidized ethanol programs. Soybeans were facing pressure from
> surging demand in China. But as supplies in the pipelines of global trade
> shrank, prices for corn, soybeans, wheat, oats, rice and other grains
> began shooting through the roof.
>
>
>
It is very simple. Oil for food. Let the oil exporting nations commit oil
to an international pool and let the grain exporting nations contribute
grain.
And I do not want to hear another fucking word about biofuels being a
culprit. People who grow crops can sell them or feed them to livestock or
use them for biofuel or do anything else imaginable with them. They
absolutely do not have to send them to Africa for free.
Let Africa start sending out oil for free and maybe, just maybe, they will
get some grain shipments for free.
It is time to start looking into population control. Letting people simply
starve would be a good first step.
Richard Eich
You first? (I thought so.)
--
Taxes are not "punishment for success". Nor are they "theft". Taxes
are a royalty paid commensurate to the economic benefit obtained from
a shared socio-economic system.
"Those who gain the benefit should also bear the disadvantage."
- Common Law maxim
California Poppy
>
> And I do not want to hear another fucking word about biofuels being a
> culprit. �People who grow crops can sell them or feed them to livestock or
> use them for biofuel or do anything else imaginable with them. �They
> absolutely do not have to send them to Africa for free.
>
> Let Africa start sending out oil for free and maybe, just maybe, they will
> get some grain shipments for free.
>
> It is time to start looking into population control. �Letting people simply
> starve would be a good first step.
The idea of permitting people to starve was first mentioned in a book
in the 1960's called "Starving Nations". It mentioned a ruler of a
country which wouldn't pernit food in without birth control in place.
We now have much better birth control so why are these unwanted,
unplanned babies still coming into the world?
California Poppy
>
>So, 'if" someone can get me the water that I can use
> without getting dinged when someone "thinks" I used too much water, I would
> be happy as a clam. �One of my pet peeves with the county, is my wife and I
> have headed their request to reduce our use of water a long time ago, and we
> have not changed that reduction in useage very much since. �But, whenever
> the country is running short on water, they send me a nasty letter asking me
> to reduce our use of water, when we have already done so, and have not
> increased our use of water.
I don't think those letters are directed to you personally, Jerry.
They are probably just computer generated whenever there is a water
shortage.
RickyBobby
"California Poppy" <GoldenSt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ab3153e5-3114-49ff...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
I have all the respect possible for people having children. I just do not
think it is the responsibility of the USA to feed them.
David Johnston
wrote:
>
>"California Poppy" <GoldenSt...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:ab3153e5-3114-49ff...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 27, 11:12?am, "RickyBobby" <nasca...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> And I do not want to hear another fucking word about biofuels being a
>> culprit. ?People who grow crops can sell them or feed them to livestock or
>> use them for biofuel or do anything else imaginable with them. ?They
>> absolutely do not have to send them to Africa for free.
>>
>> Let Africa start sending out oil for free and maybe, just maybe, they will
>> get some grain shipments for free.
>>
>> It is time to start looking into population control. ?Letting people
>> simply
>> starve would be a good first step.
>
>The idea of permitting people to starve was first mentioned in a book
>in the 1960's called "Starving Nations". It mentioned a ruler of a
>country which wouldn't pernit food in without birth control in place.
>We now have much better birth control so why are these unwanted,
>unplanned babies still coming into the world?
>
Well actually birth rates have gone down a great deal in nations where
they can afford to have only one child.
RickyBobby
"David Johnston" <da...@block.net> wrote in message
news:iaga14td0vht0trv5...@4ax.com...
Bullshit. Those third worlders have having kids as fast as they can and you
full well know it.
Nut cutting time is here. If those third world goat herders want some
barges full of grain they had better talk their masters into send the USA
some tankers full of crude.
No tickee, no washee.
star...@yahoo.com
> Wars can be beneficial. Wars reduce the population by the number of people
> who die in a war. Fewer people, means fewer people that need to be fed.
Exactly what the War Criminal in Chief wants to do with this one.
> No. In the United States, we produce more food that our population needs to
> survive.
Bullshit. Unless you really want to try to reduce the price of food
to make it not worth even creating.
> It may come to past that we do reach some sort of "tipping point". But
> people have been making such a prediction for an awful long time now, and
> yet we continue to see the population of the world increase.
Yeah - without any real reason why it should.
Mike
RickyBobby
<star...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1746db12-4d32-4971...@y18g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
It will. And it may even start decreasing this very year. There are a lot
of starving niggers in Africa and no way to get food to them even if there
was food to be got.
Jean Smith
"RickyBobby" <nasc...@cox.net> wrote:
The third world is not the place where folks don't need to world about
enough children surviving to care for them in their dotage.
>
> Nut cutting time is here. If those third world goat herders want some
> barges full of grain they had better talk their masters into send the USA
> some tankers full of crude.
We need to stop suppressing the cost of food with subsidies.
>
> No tickee, no washee.
--
'Burgh http://www.aviary.org/csrv/webcam_cath.php http://www.wqed.org/birdblog/
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/04/14/2/continued-discussion-about-
the-pennsylvania-primary http://www.io.com/~cjburke/clinton/clinatoz.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89764370
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> I have all the respect possible for people having children. I just
> do not think it is the responsibility of the USA to feed them.
What does it have to do with the USA, when you already have food
rationing (rice in Sam's Club, etc.) in place.
RickyBobby
"Polly the Parrot" <flatula...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:20080428195...@linux-k6os.site...
It has nothing at all to do with the USA. Let those third worlders starve
and die.
Jason
crisis.
The UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said the first task was to feed the
millions who were now going hungry because of soaring food prices.
The task force, chaired by Mr Ban, will be made up of the heads of UN
agencies and the World Bank.
The UN believes 100 million people are going short of food, and the World
Food Programme says it will need an extra $755m (£380m) this year.
"RickyBobby" <nasc...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ZypRj.926$152...@newsfe12.phx...
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> The United Nations is to set up a task force to tackle the global
> food crisis.
This will be the next scam.
First Global Warming - debunked.
Now starvation.
Anything to rake in a quid from the suckers, no doubt.
atec77
al Guacamole
wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:02:38 -0400 "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The United Nations is to set up a task force to tackle the global
> > food crisis.
>
> This will be the next scam.
>
> First Global Warming - debunked.
>
> Now starvation.
>
> Anything to rake in a quid from the suckers, no doubt.
Would you like to wait til starving people start walking accross our
borders to survive? It's already happening in other countries....
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> > Anything to rake in a quid from the suckers, no doubt.
>
> Would you like to wait til starving people start walking accross our
> borders to survive? It's already happening in other countries....
And how do you propose to stop that?
Jerry Okamura
> The United Nations is to set up a task force to tackle the global food
> crisis.
>
> The UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said the first task was to feed the
> millions who were now going hungry because of soaring food prices.
>
> The task force, chaired by Mr Ban, will be made up of the heads of UN
> agencies and the World Bank.
>
> The UN believes 100 million people are going short of food, and the World
> Food Programme says it will need an extra $755m (£380m) this year.
>
this problem and maybe "some more" more money from other countries....
Jerry Okamura
"al Guacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
news:a71ebbe5-4253-4551...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
How many countries in Africa can they "walk to" that is any better than the
country they are living in now? Where do the people living in places like
Bangladesh go do?
Jean Smith
Feed them where they are.
Polly the Parrot
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> How many countries in Africa can they "walk to" that is any better
> than the country they are living in now? Where do the people living
> in places like Bangladesh go do?
Except they aren't starving in Bangladesh.
Get your facts correct, please.
Polly the Parrot
<go_te...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > And how do you propose to stop that?
>
> Feed them where they are.
Noble thought; just wondering, how much will be lost along the way to
corruption?
Mani Deli
<GoldenSt...@aol.com> wrote:
>The idea of permitting people to starve was first mentioned in a book
>in the 1960's called "Starving Nations". It mentioned a ruler of a
>country which wouldn't pernit food in without birth control in place.
>We now have much better birth control so why are these unwanted,
>unplanned babies still coming into the world?
Religion!
Jerry Okamura
From the CIA Factbook....Bangladesh remains a poor, overpopulated, and
inefficiently-governed nation. Although more than half of GDP is generated
through the service sector, nearly two-thirds of Bangladeshis are employed
in the agriculture sector, with rice as the single-most-important product.
Garment exports and remittances from Bangladeshis working overseas, mainly
in the Middle East and East Asia, fuel economic growth.
"Polly the Parrot" <flatula...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:20080430055...@linux-k6os.site...
Polly the Parrot
<okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> From the CIA Factbook....Bangladesh remains a poor, overpopulated,
> and inefficiently-governed nation. Although more than half of GDP is
> generated through the service sector, nearly two-thirds of
> Bangladeshis are employed in the agriculture sector, with rice as the
> single-most-important product. Garment exports and remittances from
> Bangladeshis working overseas, mainly in the Middle East and East
> Asia, fuel economic growth.
Nothing here about starving in Bangladesh that I can see.
And further to this - I (unfortunately) travel to Bangladesh regularly
on business - haven't seen any starving beggars (but lots of beggars)
yet.
Compared to say Calcutta in India, Bangladesh is a paradise. Compared
to the west, is not of course.
al Guacamole
wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:46:26 -1000 "Jerry Okamura"
>
There have been some PBS shows on Yunus the microlender who says that
they have reduced poverty in half in the last few years. He hopes that
it will be gone in about 5-8 years. Jerry hasn't done the research to
really know what's going on in Bengladesh.
al Guacamole
> "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
No... We have been willing to ship tons of excess grain at no cost to
us in the past.
Jason
Bangladesh: Hidden Hunger
http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/f1d5a4bde28f6f04c289d107266b0fdd.htm
Skyrocketing oil prices have driven up the cost of food worldwide, but their
impact has been particularly dire in Bangladesh, where almost half of the
145 million people live on less than one dollar a day.
Bangladesh had a bad year in natural disaster in 2007. With a prolonged
flood and the devastation of cyclone Sidr left its own rice production much
lower than usual. There is a new government which did not have the
experience in predicting the shortage and piling up sufficient stock
although they were warned. Now the shortage in supply is effecting more on
price. The government controlled food distribution centers were abolished
some years ago with the pressure of World Bank and IMF. Now with no such
wide scale distribution arm the government is not being able to keep the
prices down with a small number of rationing booths.
"al Guacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
news:d78dcfa6-1ed4-4272...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
al Guacamole
> Bangladesh: Hidden Hunger
>
> http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/f1d5a4bde28f6f04c289d107266b0f...
>
> Skyrocketing oil prices have driven up the cost of food worldwide, but their
> impact has been particularly dire in Bangladesh, where almost half of the
> 145 million people live on less than one dollar a day.
>
> Bangladesh had a bad year in natural disaster in 2007. With a prolonged
> flood and the devastation of cyclone Sidr left its own rice production much
> lower than usual. There is a new government which did not have the
> experience in predicting the shortage and piling up sufficient stock
> although they were warned. Now the shortage in supply is effecting more on
> price. The government controlled food distribution centers were abolished
> some years ago with the pressure of World Bank and IMF. Now with no such
> wide scale distribution arm the government is not being able to keep the
> prices down with a small number of rationing booths.
Well that's why the supply should be made available form the world
wide community at prices that they can afford. Money is not the
problem if prices do not go up.
Jerry Okamura
I am well aware of the "micro loan" program. It has "helped" some people,
it has not "help" all the people. A successful program is one that helps
"most of the people" or better yet, "all" of the people.
Jerry Okamura
Doesn't solve the problem. I may help alieviate part of the problem, but it
does not solve the problem.
Jerry Okamura
First, the "us" was the United States, not the UN, because the US has the
surplus. And NO, it is never at "no cost to us". A farmer or the guy who
"bought" the products from the farmer did not "give away" what they bought,
they got paid by the government of the United States.
Stan Pierce
"Jerry Okamura" <okamu...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:481a08ae$0$20191$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
>> news:fv6vta$3sh$1...@registered.motzarella.org...> The United Nations is to
>> set up a task force to tackle the global food
>> > crisis.
>>
It's not a food crisis, it's a population crisis and the UN has nothing to
say about reducing the numbers. Starvation has always worked and it's
costless.
Only the white European knows how to overcome starvation. Look after the
white European...problem solved. Next.
al Guacamole
> "alGuacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
>
> news:14d9d77d-43b6-4a53...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 29, 1:31 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jason" <jasonpatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:fv6vta$3sh$1...@registered.motzarella.org...> The United Nations is to
> > set up a task force to tackle the global food
> > > crisis.
>
> > > The UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said the first task was to feed
> > > the
> > > millions who were now going hungry because of soaring food prices.
>
> > > The task force, chaired by Mr Ban, will be made up of the heads of UN
> > > agencies and the World Bank.
>
> > > The UN believes 100 million people are going short of food, and the
> > > World
> > > Food Programme says it will need an extra $755m (£380m) this year.
>
> > Translation: The UN wants even more money from the United States, to solve
> > this problem and maybe "some more" more money from other countries....
>
> No... We have been willing to ship tons of excess grain at no cost to
> us in the past.
>
> First, the "us" was the United States, not the UN, because the US has the
> surplus. And NO, it is never at "no cost to us".
It's so cheap that we have to give it away to save our farmers. It's
not a question of expense. Politics is the real cost here.
al Guacamole
> "alGuacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
> [Jerry.... ]
> Doesn't solve the problem. I may help alieviate part of the problem, but it
> does not solve the problem.
Sure it does... The only part that's left unsolved is the global
warming situation. More droughts in the future....
al Guacamole
> "alGuacamole" <a...@lava.net> wrote in message
>
> news:d78dcfa6-1ed4-4272...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 30, 7:07 am, Polly the Parrot <flatulantdi...@deadspam.com>
> wrote:
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>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:46:26 -1000 "Jerry Okamura"
>
> > <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > > From the CIA Factbook....Bangladesh remains a poor, overpopulated,
> > > and inefficiently-governed nation. Although more than half of GDP is
> > > generated through the service sector, nearly two-thirds of
> > > Bangladeshis are employed in the agriculture sector, with rice as the
> > > single-most-important product. Garment exports and remittances from
> > > Bangladeshis working overseas, mainly in the Middle East and East
> > > Asia, fuel economic growth.
>
> > Nothing here about starving in Bangladesh that I can see.
>
> > And further to this - I (unfortunately) travel to Bangladesh regularly
> > on business - haven't seen any starving beggars (but lots of beggars)
> > yet.
>
> > Compared to say Calcutta in India, Bangladesh is a paradise. Compared
> > to the west, is not of course.
>
> There have been some PBS shows on Yunus the microlender who says that
> they have reduced poverty in half in the last few years. He hopes that
> it will be gone in about 5-8 years. Jerry hasn't done the research to
> really know what's going on in Bengladesh.
> [Jerry...]
> I am well aware of the "micro loan" program. It has "helped" some people,
> it has not "help" all the people. A successful program is one that helps
> "most of the people" or better yet, "all" of the people.
It's not for the wealthy or the middle class, but definitely it works
for the poor. Nothing wrong with that. A successful program is one
that really works and microlending does that.