Rummy admission that what we have seen may be just the tip of the iceberg

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Harry Hope

May 8, 2004, 9:53:33 AM5/8/04

"The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and
murder here."

Sen. Graham (R-S.C.)

From The Boston Herald, 5/8/04:

Rueful Rumsfeld: `Cruel' truth hurts:

Rape and murder feared in Iraq abuse

By Noelle Straub

Saturday, May 8, 2004


The Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal took an explosive turn yesterday with
the revelation that photos and graphic videotapes not yet made public
show abuses more horrific than those already seen.

Signaling the worst revelations are yet to come, Secretary of Defense
Donald Rumsfeld said the additional photos show ``acts that can only
be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.''

``There are a lot more photographs and videos that exist,'' Rumsfeld
testified before Congress.

``If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make
matters worse. That's just a fact.''

The unreleased images show American soldiers beating one prisoner
almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting
inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young
boys, according to NBC News.

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said the scandal is
``going to get worse'' and warned that the most ``disturbing''
revelations haven't yet been made public.

``The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape
and murder here,'' he said.

``We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience;
we're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges.''

In daylong sworn testimony before the House and Senate Armed Services
committees, Rumsfeld offered his ``deepest apologies'' for the
prisoner abuses.

``These events occurred on my watch,'' Rumsfeld said.

``I take full responsibility.''

Under questioning, Rumsfeld admitted that ``it's possible'' his
resignation would undo some of the damage inflicted by the scandal.

Some Democrats, including both Bay State senators, have called for
Rumsfeld to step down.

``If I felt I could not be effective I would resign in a minute,''
Rumsfeld said.

``I would not resign simply because people try to make a political
issue out of it.''

President Bush is so far standing by Rumsfeld.

In comments made public yesterday, Bush gave an interview to a third
Arab television station in which he said six times that he was
``sorry'' about the prisoner abuse.

Testifying alongside Rumsfeld, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff, defended the military response to the abuses.

He said officials acted quickly to investigate the incidents after a
soldier reported them.

``Our commanders did exactly the right thing in a timely manner,''
Myers said.

Sen. Carl Levin, (D-Mich.), the top-ranking committee Democrat, said
the incidents were not isolated but rather ``part of an organized and
conscious process to extract information.''

Levin said military intelligence officers told the soldiers guarding
Iraqis to treat them harshly to soften them up for interrogations.

But Rumsfeld denied that, insisted they were individual instances of

Army Secretary Les Brownlee said military probes of 25 prisoner deaths
found that a dozen were due to natural causes, one was justifiable
homicide, two were homicides and the others were still under

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) warned that the scandal, if not dealt with
quickly, could turn Iraq into another Vietnam.

``We risk losing public support for this conflict,'' McCain said.

``As Americans turned away from the Vietnam War, they may turn away
from this one.''

After the hearing, McCain said Rumsfeld's testimony failed to answer
basic questions, such as how high up the chain of command the fault

Lawmakers promised to pursue a series of hearings into the matter.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy [related, bio] (D-Mass.) called the scandal a
``catastrophic crisis of credibility for our nation.''

``In the Middle East and too often today, the symbol of America is not
the Statue of Liberty. It's the prisoner standing on a box wearing a
dark cape and a dark hood on his head, wires attached to his body,
afraid that he's going to be electrocuted,'' he said.


George W. Bush has turned our nation into a pile of shit.


May 8, 2004, 10:32:11 AM5/8/04
In article <>,
> Don't you think you're exaggerating, just a bit?


"Be suspicious of anybody who claims to know the truth."


May 8, 2004, 1:17:29 PM5/8/04

"Dennis" <Howdy> wrote in message

No. Look around our country and the rest of the world. Open your eyes, as
if you are looking for the first time, at what America has come to stand
for. Dennis

May 8, 2004, 2:58:53 PM5/8/04
In article <JC8nc.4072177$>,

I have my eyes wide open. What America stands for is what many other countries
want, but can't achieve. They are envious, and cover it up with hate. Also,
I do see what many other countries "stand for" and it sends chills through me.
Look at Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, The Sudan, most of Africa, Mexico,
most of South America. You want corrupion of government, lack of freedoms,
mass killing, go there. Like has been said many time "if America is so
then why do people want to live here, rather than thier own country? The
that are infecting our world only want to bring everybody under a male
theocracy. Where freedom to them is truely a dirty word.


May 8, 2004, 3:16:10 PM5/8/04

That sounds a lot like what Bush is doing with support of the Christian

"The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people."
- Bill Maher


May 8, 2004, 5:23:15 PM5/8/04
Dennis <Howdy> wrote in

Well Dennis, you folks like to mix apples and oranges don't you? Most
folks in Europe kinda like their country and their life styles. They
don't flock to our shores anymore and haven't for many years. But if it
make you feel good comparing the governments of third world countries
with ours go ahead.

It amazes me how often you folks dig a ten foot deep hole, toss in five
feet of dirt and call it a mountain. Dennis, it's still a hole. Funny how
low your expectations are as are those of your crowd. I guess it goes
well with your crowds generally low principles.

I guess you could go on and compare, our little idiot, George with
Hitler, Stalin and Idi Amin and come to another grand conclusion - George
is better. Well I guess a sharp poke in the eye is better than a bullet
to the head, but as most thinking liberals, I would prefer neither. Dennis

May 8, 2004, 5:56:45 PM5/8/04
In article <Xns94E3B0D4E3236...@>, Pat...@USARMY.COM

I guess I didn't make my point clear. It is the not the Euopeans(sp) that
so dislike us, no it is those shithole third world countries. They dislke us
so much that they just can't get here fast enough. By the same token this
is the breeding ground of terrorism. If they can't live a good life,
call ours evil, and try to blow it up.
No Geroge is an idiot, but even with Kerry things are going to stay the
same on the international level.


May 8, 2004, 7:21:43 PM5/8/04
Dennis <Howdy> wrote in

I agree to a point. We won't be in Iraq as long with Kerry. We won't be
in Iraq alone with Kerry. The third world islamic countries are not
secular for the most part. They won't ever progress unless they get rid
of their governments religious ties as the West did after the
Reformation. These born 'agin' idiots in the States are marching in lock
step into a past best forgotten. The years of rule by the church were
violent and ignorant times and I feel the catholic church would be viewed
as kind rulers when compared to our evangelical idiots here. Faith is
fine after reason, science and a palmist have been tried first. Religion
rules by fear of the unknown, superstition and goggleigoop interpreted by
church leaders to suit their agenda and their agenda is control. The
whole mess needs to be disgarded as a child disgards his toys as he

The wealth of the worlds church's exceeds that required to end world

Miles Long

May 8, 2004, 9:59:30 PM5/8/04
Dennis wrote:

And freedom at home in the US can get your ass hauled into jail if you
even try to protest outside a venue where GW is appearing.

As for why others want to live here? Well the answer is pretty obvious
to me, even with our eroded Constitutional protections, we're at least
allowed to buy more shit. I admit that there's quite a bit of global
hypocrisy out there. People in other countries decrying out culture but
craving our toys. But hey, who said it had to be rational.

And finally, we (the US) have tried every brand of world diplomacy
except one, and have met with either increased rancor, or at best benign
acceptance (from those we give dollars). Perhaps it's time for us to
try the one thing that hasn't been done, quit meddling in other people's
affairs, because, frankly, we suck at it.

Miles "Consumers Are Us" Long

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