Dumb Indians....smart Indira Ghandi
Me, ...again!
We have a number of Indians on these NGs who don't understand how India
cheats at attracting business to India, or they are lying, or they are
being dishonest, or all of the above.
Indian propagandists (Kamal Prasad is among the worst, but not the only
one) who have never had anything good to say about the USA, white people,
or America since they came on the newsgroups (go check it yourself if you
don't believe me), have been bitching and moaning about all kinds of
non-issues. Here are a few misrepresentations by Kamal Prasad (et.al.):
American printed paper money is no good, only gold (when the whole world,
including India, runs on printed paper money)
America lives on a false pile of wealth (when the rest of the world
operates with a balance between assets, debt, and net worth
plus standard of living, all based on the same capitalist
economics).
America: biggest debtor (when all countries have debt, including India,
which last time I looked, was 12th from the top in debt which
is pretty poor for a poor country). Don't forget Japan, second
richest country, and second biggest debtor (check it yourself
if you don't believe me. Kamal has never acknowledged this)
The inflated "strong dollar"? Kamal really hits on this all the time, but
refuses to acknowledge that India has been devaluing the Rupee
for at least 50 years, and devaluing for the purpose--not of
free trade--of attracting by hyjack foreign business. China, also,
devalued the renminbi, twice and greatly, in the early 1990s, also
to attract business from foreign countries, and so they are a curency
manipulator, too, and in violation of WTO rules.
I looked up the Indian Rupee to USD exchange rate in an Almanac I have in
my personal library. Going back 30-35 years, India continuously
and slowly devalued its Rupee over all of that period up to now
where the exchange rate is about 46-48 Rs per USD. Another
history book I have from about 1940s-50s said that the exchange
rate was about 4 Rs per USD.
Thanking these dumb Indians who made me mad enough to read Indian history
and world economics to educate myself so it is easy to detect their lies
and misrepresentations, now I have a new revelation for all of you. The
latest book I read was "A New History of India" 3rd edition, by Stanley
Wolpert (1989, Oxford University Press, 493 pp), and I read it cover to
cover, and made a lot of notes.
Here it is, on page 379, a quote:
"In June 1966, however, when Mrs. Gandi announced the devaluation of
India's Rupee from 4.76 to 7.50 to the US dollar, leaders of India's
opposition parties all interpreted the act as an official confession of
the failure of Indian economic planning...." and after the next sentence
is this sentence:"Mrs. Gandi insisted that devaluation was required to
increase the sale of Indian exports to earn more foreign exchange [i.e.
foreign currency]. 'No nation has acheived economic growth or any kind of
independence, political or economic, without going through hell and fire.'
she informed India's press."
All you guys who don't understand how 3rd world countries can use cheap
currency to suck jobs and money out of first world countries ...you need
to read easy to find economics books that discuss this. They are not hard
to find, and currency manipulation by devaluation is known as a "beggar
thy neighbor policy" and can also be found in some economics books.
Together with Western/US IT technology, falling on India like a free gift
from the gods on a silver platter, it was a scheme to rob the US of its
jobs and take money out of our system.
Kamal and his Indian buddies, who have still posted nothing but negative
opionions about America/USA/and "whites,"--and blaming the
USA/America/"whites" for all the problems in the world-- are hypocrits,
liars, and propagandistic racists. Just find me any example where they
appreciated anything the USA did, Americans did, or that "white" people
did.
And, as far their other big complaint in which all of us "white" guys
killed American Indians and stole their lands (from 500-200 years ago),
I'll invite all of you people to read some Indian history and learn about
3,000 years of India Indians killing other India Indians and stealing
each other's lands, 3,000 years of caste discrimination, Sati (women
burned alive when the husband dies), Thuggee (ritual murder in India),
infanticide, corruption, and child slave labor which exists today (Google
that yourselves), and serious ethnic violence and intollerance.
And, while you are at it, read about the mass wars in China, Mongol
Empire, SE Asia, and Imperial Japan (in 1920s-30s) which are not "white"
people, and read about the wars among the "red man" among Aztecs (who
were also cannibals), Maya, Toltecs, and the Incas _before_ Columbus
made the first visit to "the new lands."
morris croy
>
> Kamal and his Indian buddies, who have still posted nothing but negative
> opionions about America/USA/and "whites,"--and blaming the
> USA/America/"whites" for all the problems in the world-- are hypocrits,
> liars, and propagandistic racists.
In practice some individuals are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lying,
propaganda, etc ... as long as they themselves are greatly benefiting
from it. Accusations of hypocrisy and lying are completely
ineffective against such individuals. They just keep on going on
their merrily way, regardless of what the truth is.
Me, ...again!
That's fine. They have been pissing and shitting on the USA, Americans,
and white people for 5-10 years now. I'm kinda getting tired of it.
kamal
> We have a number of Indians on these NGs who don't understand how India
> cheats at attracting business to India, or they are lying, or they are
> being dishonest, or all of the above.
>
> Indian propagandists (Kamal Prasad is among the worst, but not the only
thanks for the honor.
> one) who have never had anything good to say about the USA, white people,
> or America since they came on the newsgroups (go check it yourself if you
> don't believe me), have been bitching and moaning about all kinds of
> non-issues. Here are a few misrepresentations by Kamal Prasad (et.al.):
>
> American printed paper money is no good, only gold (when the whole world,
> including India, runs on printed paper money)
>
ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
influenced.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refer=currency
the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
> America lives on a false pile of wealth (when the rest of the world
> operates with a balance between assets, debt, and net worth
> plus standard of living, all based on the same capitalist
> economics).
>
don't have a problem if it was a real pile of wealth.
> America: biggest debtor (when all countries have debt, including India,
> which last time I looked, was 12th from the top in debt which
> is pretty poor for a poor country). Don't forget Japan, second
> richest country, and second biggest debtor (check it yourself
> if you don't believe me. Kamal has never acknowledged this)
>
yep -its an economy in decay -just like yours. All economies go
through a life cycle of birth., growth, midlife and death.
> The inflated "strong dollar"? Kamal really hits on this all the time, but
> refuses to acknowledge that India has been devaluing the Rupee
> for at least 50 years, and devaluing for the purpose--not of
> free trade--of attracting by hyjack foreign business. China, also,
> devalued the renminbi, twice and greatly, in the early 1990s, also
> to attract business from foreign countries, and so they are a curency
> manipulator, too, and in violation of WTO rules.
>
> I looked up the Indian Rupee to USD exchange rate in an Almanac I have in
> my personal library. Going back 30-35 years, India continuously
> and slowly devalued its Rupee over all of that period up to now
> where the exchange rate is about 46-48 Rs per USD. Another
> history book I have from about 1940s-50s said that the exchange
> rate was about 4 Rs per USD.
>
and what was India exporting 35 yrs back? To my knowldge, neither did
it export much nor did it get any outsourced work before 1991. Even
today, India exports v little compared to s.e. asian countries to the
USA/ We are not much of an export oriented economy.
umm lets see, here is what I would like to congratulate americans for
inventing:-
the light bulb,
the computer,
electricity
the telephone
hollywood
porn
regards
-kamal
Me, ...again!
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Dec 25, 10:52 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> We have a number of Indians on these NGs who don't understand how India
>> cheats at attracting business to India, or they are lying, or they are
>> being dishonest, or all of the above.
>>
>> Indian propagandists (Kamal Prasad is among the worst, but not the only
>
> thanks for the honor.
Dishonor.
>> one) who have never had anything good to say about the USA, white people,
>> or America since they came on the newsgroups (go check it yourself if you
>> don't believe me), have been bitching and moaning about all kinds of
>> non-issues. Here are a few misrepresentations by Kamal Prasad (et.al.):
>>
>> American printed paper money is no good, only gold (when the whole world,
>> including India, runs on printed paper money)
>>
> ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
> influenced.
>
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refer=currency
Bloomberg, another "marketing" outfit trying to sell things on the side.
Hardly an unbiased source, itself.
> the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
> is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
The very fact that you have yet to name any countries on the planet that
do not print money means that I probably know more about currency than
you.
>> America lives on a false pile of wealth (when the rest of the world
>> operates with a balance between assets, debt, and net worth
>> plus standard of living, all based on the same capitalist
>> economics).
>>
> don't have a problem if it was a real pile of wealth.
The fact is that 99% of the world runs on that wealth.
When are you going to start that island, somewhere, where only gold is
accepted?
>> America: biggest debtor (when all countries have debt, including India,
>> which last time I looked, was 12th from the top in debt which
>> is pretty poor for a poor country). Don't forget Japan, second
>> richest country, and second biggest debtor (check it yourself
>> if you don't believe me. Kamal has never acknowledged this)
>>
> yep -its an economy in decay -just like yours. All economies go
> through a life cycle of birth., growth, midlife and death.
Then, according to you, the whole planet is in decay? You are deluding
yourself.
>> The inflated "strong dollar"? Kamal really hits on this all the time, but
>> refuses to acknowledge that India has been devaluing the Rupee
>> for at least 50 years, and devaluing for the purpose--not of
>> free trade--of attracting by hyjack foreign business. China, also,
>> devalued the renminbi, twice and greatly, in the early 1990s, also
>> to attract business from foreign countries, and so they are a curency
>> manipulator, too, and in violation of WTO rules.
>>
>> I looked up the Indian Rupee to USD exchange rate in an Almanac I have in
>> my personal library. Going back 30-35 years, India continuously
>> and slowly devalued its Rupee over all of that period up to now
>> where the exchange rate is about 46-48 Rs per USD. Another
>> history book I have from about 1940s-50s said that the exchange
>> rate was about 4 Rs per USD.
>>
> and what was India exporting 35 yrs back?
Oh, you want me to go back to the book, copy out the paragraphs which cite
the exports out of India so you can be lazy and have me do all the work?
In your dreams. But, India did have a lot of exports, I'll tell you that,
Mr. "Not-An-Expert-On-Anything," otherwise known as Kamal Prasad.
To my knowldge, neither did
> it export much nor did it get any outsourced work before 1991.
All, by the way, as a free gift on a silver platter to India and Indians.
Even
> today, India exports v little compared to s.e. asian countries to the
> USA/ We are not much of an export oriented economy.
That's not my problem.
Oh, how nice of you to--after at least five years--bring yourself,
finally, to list a _few_ of the many good things that came out of the
USA/Americans/"whites"......
> the light bulb,
> the computer,
you forgot the Internet
> electricity
> the telephone
> hollywood
> porn
And, what came out of India in the last 3,000 years:
Sati (when husband dies, wife gets burned to death in flames),
Caste discrimination (1/4 of the population as "untouchables"),
Infanticide (sellective killing of kids, and female kids)
Thuggee (ritual murder)
3,000 years of brutal wars, bloodshed, ethnic strife, killing
...and a far overpopulated biggest country that can't even make enough
jobs for its own people
Bollywood.
Porn? How many Indian wives are getting AIDS/HIV from their husbands who
go to brothels? Recent article says very high occurrence.
Now, how about inventions?
Old Pif
>
> umm lets see, here is what I would like to congratulate americans for
> inventing:-
>
> the light bulb,
> the computer,
> electricity
> the telephone
> hollywood
> porn
>
Porn is the European thing.
Me, ...again!
They had it in ancient India, too. Temples where they worshipped sex.
I have a book on this, too.
Old Pif
I guess it is different. I mean worship and selling ...
Me, ...again!
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
> On Dec 26, 5:29 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
>>> On Dec 26, 9:21 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> umm lets see, here is what I would like to congratulate americans for
>>>> inventing:-
>>
>>>> the light bulb,
>>>> the computer,
>>>> electricity
>>>> the telephone
>>>> hollywood
>>>> porn
>>
>>> Porn is the European thing.
>>
>> They had it in ancient India, too. Temples where they worshipped sex.
>>
>> I have a book on this, too.
>>
>
> I guess it is different. I mean worship and selling ...
>
Well, the way the temples were supported was that it was the duty of young
women to donate their "services" to the temple, which in turn "sold" those
services to men who made "donations" of money to the temple, and that is
how that religion kept its priests and temple maintenance in gravy.
Something like this also happened in places from Egypt , through the
arab/mesopotamia world, and on over into India, maybe China, too.
They also auctioned off women for marriage, too. If a woman was pretty,
then she was sold for profit/income. Once they got down to ugly women,
then they started paying out money to get a man to take her. The uglier
the woman, the more they had to pay to get a man to take her.
Pretty mercenary, but even thousands of years ago, that's the way it
worked in some places.
Tambi Dude
> ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
> influenced.
>
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refe...
>
> the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
> is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
yesterday I was in Garden State Mall at Westfield NJ. Gosh, the entire
Mall
was jampacked. It took me 20 min of waiting to get a parking slot. The
mall
inside reminded me of one of indian train stations. Everybody was
buying
things at cheap price. All thanks to high value dollar. From
electronics
to toys, americans can buy it at cheap price.
Cheap currency seem to benefit americans more than Chinese and
Indians.
Each and every american, even those who job is not outsourced, seem to
love buying things at cheap price coming from asian countries.
Straydog is a congenital liar and a dishonest person. He will never
talk
about the enormous benefit of high value dollar to the american public
in maintaining their std of living which they think is their
birthright.
kamal
> On Dec 26, 9:21 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
> > influenced.
>
> >http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refe...
>
> > the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
> > is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
>
> yesterday I was in Garden State Mall at Westfield NJ. Gosh, the entire
> Mall
> was jampacked. It took me 20 min of waiting to get a parking slot. The
> mall
> inside reminded me of one of indian train stations. Everybody was
> buying
> things at cheap price. All thanks to high value dollar. From
> electronics
> to toys, americans can buy it at cheap price.
>
> Cheap currency seem to benefit americans more than Chinese and
> Indians.
> Each and every american, even those who job is not outsourced, seem to
you must mean -those whose jobs have been outsourced. By default,
those whose jobs have not been/cannot be -outsourced will definately
want an even stronger currency to increase their std of living.
> love buying things at cheap price coming from asian countries.
>
yes -a strong currency benefits by definition those who have it in
their pockets. But if someone loses his job, it cannot possibly
benefit that person coz he won't anyways have that strong currency in
his pockets till he lands another job
> Straydog is a congenital liar and a dishonest person. He will never
among other things -yes.
> talk
> about the enormous benefit of high value dollar to the american public
> in maintaining their std of living which they think is their
> birthright.
they will lose that birthright once creditors know for sure that this
debtor nation isn't going to be able to repay either their past or
future debts. The debt clock is very much for real.
regards
-kamal
morris croy
> they will lose that birthright once creditors know for sure that this
> debtor nation isn't going to be able to repay either their past or
> future debts. The debt clock is very much for real.
That birthright has already been gone for 30+ years. Just ask any
unionized worker who has ever been laid off.
Tambi Dude
Well many americans do not consider their jobs to be well deserving.
Just read postings from Straydog (now known as Me .. Again) who
has proudly claimed that GM and Ford can be tossed to hell. He
doesn't realize that others (like me) can say the same about american
IT workers.
Fact is no americans care about others as long as he is benefiting.
When they are getting a netbook for $228 (all coming from cheap
currencies), they won't think a minute whether any american is
in a hot dog stand because of their choice).
Human beings are selfish by nature. Everyone thinks about self
interest and if that means not caring a f**k for others, then so be
it.
morris croy
>
> Fact is no americans care about others as long as he is benefiting.
The same can be said about anybody else anywhere in the world,
regardless of whether the system is capitalist, communist, democratic,
totalitarian, tribal, feudal, monarchy, etc ... This is the case even
when there's a death penalty.
Tambi Dude
yes you are right.
Me, ...again!
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, Tambi Dude wrote:
> On Dec 26, 9:21 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
>> influenced.
>>
>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refe...
>>
>> the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
>> is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
>
> yesterday I was in Garden State Mall at Westfield NJ. Gosh, the entire
> Mall
> was jampacked. It took me 20 min of waiting to get a parking slot. The
> mall
> inside reminded me of one of indian train stations. Everybody was
> buying
> things at cheap price. All thanks to high value dollar. From
> electronics
> to toys, americans can buy it at cheap price.
>
> Cheap currency seem to benefit americans more than Chinese and
> Indians.
If it were not for strong dollar and cheap Rupees/renminbi, millions of
Indians and Chinese would be out of work, and India would still be like in
1970s.
> Each and every american, even those who job is not outsourced, seem to
> love buying things at cheap price coming from asian countries.
As long as there are the 85-90% still employed, they will buy.
> Straydog is a congenital liar and a dishonest person. He will never
> talk
> about the enormous benefit of high value dollar to the american public
> in maintaining their std of living which they think is their
> birthright.
Tambi Dude is the big liar, who refuses to acknowledge tons of data I've
posted that India (as well as China) continuously devalued their currency
to suck money and jobs out of the USA.
Tambi Dude and other propagandistic Indians only want to steal jobs from
the USA and give to themselves.
>
Me, ...again!
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Dec 27, 8:55 pm, Tambi Dude <tambid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 26, 9:21 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ok -read this from your fellow american whom I could not have
>>> influenced.
>>
>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=a1d6vDJU7gOg&refe...
>>
>>> the link also pointed to a book "currency for dummies" -which i think
>>> is well-suited to you, and a majority of americans on this ng.
>>
>> yesterday I was in Garden State Mall at Westfield NJ. Gosh, the entire
>> Mall
>> was jampacked. It took me 20 min of waiting to get a parking slot. The
>> mall
>> inside reminded me of one of indian train stations. Everybody was
>> buying
>> things at cheap price. All thanks to high value dollar. From
>> electronics
>> to toys, americans can buy it at cheap price.
>>
>> Cheap currency seem to benefit americans more than Chinese and
>> Indians.
>> Each and every american, even those who job is not outsourced, seem to
>
> you must mean -those whose jobs have been outsourced. By default,
> those whose jobs have not been/cannot be -outsourced will definately
> want an even stronger currency to increase their std of living.
You're still forgetting that India and China already weakened their
currency over all these years to suck jobs out of the USA to give to
themselves. India's/China's "entitlement" to wage economic warfare on the
USA!
>> love buying things at cheap price coming from asian countries.
>>
> yes -a strong currency benefits by definition those who have it in
> their pockets.
And, provides lots of jobs for countries that are unable to make jobs
without the help of the USA/west/whites.
But if someone loses his job, it cannot possibly
> benefit that person coz he won't anyways have that strong currency in
> his pockets till he lands another job
What a brilliant deduction.
>> Straydog is a congenital liar and a dishonest person. He will never
>
> among other things -yes.
Kamal and Dude are propagandists, too dishonest to admit the cheating the
Indians and India do to steal jobs.
>> talk
>> about the enormous benefit of high value dollar to the american public
>> in maintaining their std of living which they think is their
>> birthright.
>
> they will lose that birthright once creditors know for sure that this
> debtor nation isn't going to be able to repay either their past or
> future debts. The debt clock is very much for real.
Maybe a day will come when tarriffs will go back on imports and level the
playing field.
> regards
> -kamal
>
>
Me, ...again!
And, ask millions of Indians if they ever might thank US CEOs and the
Reserve Bank of India for all the help they got in getting a US job
transfered to them.
morris croy
> And, ask millions of Indians if they ever might thank US CEOs and the
> Reserve Bank of India for all the help they got in getting a US job
> transfered to them.
Maybe one day they'll reincorporate in Antarctica.
Me, ...again!
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, morris croy wrote:
I think before that, India will become the "Mexico" of Asia and China will
become the "America" of Asia.
Then, try to imagine how Japan is going to feel about China in another ten
years. China might eat Japan, too. Formosa/Taiwan will just be a desert or
appetizer, then.
kamal
I wasn't referring to job security as a birth right. You need to look
at the economies of other countries to understand what I am saying. An
engineer working in the US has a higher std of living for the same
kind of work done by someone in 3rd world countries. The folks on this
NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
-without delivering higher productivity. If that is indeed true, then
you will need something else besides worker productivity to finance
that higher std of living. That something else is the funny money
printed by the US fed which gets you trade-able goods/services from
other countries. If and when exporters to the US stop accepting funny
money, your first world std of living (aka your birthright) will come
down crashing.
Hope that explains.
regards
-kamal
Old Pif
>
> The folks on this
> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
> -without delivering higher productivity.
>
You don't need to guess what the folk thinks. Just ask.
kamal
I do know that this is what you think. I also know that all of you
would like to use the race card to do away with competition in the
labour market.
regards
-kamal
sopr...@godfather.com
kamal says...
>I wasn't referring to job security as a birth right. You need to look
>at the economies of other countries to understand what I am saying. An
>engineer working in the US has a higher std of living for the same
>kind of work done by someone in 3rd world countries. The folks on this
>NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
>-without delivering higher productivity. If that is indeed true, then
>you will need something else besides worker productivity to finance
>that higher std of living. That something else is the funny money
>printed by the US fed which gets you trade-able goods/services from
>other countries. If and when exporters to the US stop accepting funny
>money, your first world std of living (aka your birthright) will come
>down crashing.
Very well put. The same has been told by Bill Gates in a different
language. Per him, Microsoft does not believe in luck of womb.
He specifically quoted that he does not believe a smart person
born in india to a life of poverty whereas a not so smart person
born in USA can take everything for granted as his entitlement.
That's why his Microsoft does not make any distinction between
nationalities.
Old Pif
> In article <66e4d12c-1653-4dd8-9811-2c049a208...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
In my whole life I have never seen or heard of working American
talking about any entitlements.
Usually, this crap is coming either from CEOs as justification for
importing cheap labor or moving business abroad or from tribal
propagandists as Kamal in support of superiority claims.
sopr...@godfather.com
Old Pif says...
>
>In my whole life I have never seen or heard of working American
>talking about any entitlements.
Straydog and many other disgruntled mediocre americans feel they are
entitled to a job more than an immigrant.
>Usually, this crap is coming either from CEOs as justification for
>importing cheap labor or moving business abroad or from tribal
>propagandists as Kamal in support of superiority claims.
Usually this defence comes from mediocre americans who just don't
want any competition.
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Dec 27, 9:59 pm, morris croy <morrisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 11:08 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> they will lose that birthright once creditors know for sure that this
>>> debtor nation isn't going to be able to repay either their past or
>>> future debts. The debt clock is very much for real.
>>
>> That birthright has already been gone for 30+ years. Just ask any
>> unionized worker who has ever been laid off.
>
> I wasn't referring to job security as a birth right. You need to look
> at the economies of other countries to understand what I am saying. An
> engineer working in the US has a higher std of living for the same
> kind of work done by someone in 3rd world countries.
This is wrong. What the problem is: is the exchange rates and what is
available in the 3rd world.
The folks on this
> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
> -without delivering higher productivity.
No, the "productivity" you are confused about is that the WORK can be
exported to cheap currency countries.
If WORK were paid for on an equitable basis, then there would be no
"productivity" difference.
If that is indeed true, then
> you will need something else besides worker productivity to finance
> that higher std of living.
What is also a problem is that India and China, both cheat on their
currency manipulation and more and more people are beginning to recognize
this.
That something else is the funny money
> printed by the US fed which gets you trade-able goods/services from
> other countries.
You still have not answered my question: name a country that does not use
printed currency.
If and when exporters to the US stop accepting funny
> money,
When that happens, THEY are going to be in trouble.
your first world std of living (aka your birthright) will come
> down crashing.
I just don't see that ever happening.
> Hope that explains.
All propaganda.
> regards
> -kamal
>
>
Me, ...again!
Kamal seems to think he is the king of all economists and the god of all
truth.
Me, ...again!
Actually, it has been YOU, for at least the last five years, doing nothing
but complain, constantly, about "whites" killing American Indians and
stealing their land and saying nothing about India's 3,000 years of caste
discrimination, Sati (burning wives when husbands die), child slave labor
which exists even today, Thuggee (ritual murder of India Indians by India
Indians), and 3,000 years of bloody wars, ethnic strife, and massive
corruption.
You're a hypocrit.
> regards
> -kamal
>
Old Pif
He is too superior to ask questions. And why to ask if he knows all
the answers.
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> In article <66e4d12c-1653-4dd8...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> kamal says...
>
>> I wasn't referring to job security as a birth right. You need to look
>> at the economies of other countries to understand what I am saying. An
>> engineer working in the US has a higher std of living for the same
>> kind of work done by someone in 3rd world countries. The folks on this
>> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
>> -without delivering higher productivity. If that is indeed true, then
>> you will need something else besides worker productivity to finance
>> that higher std of living. That something else is the funny money
>> printed by the US fed which gets you trade-able goods/services from
>> other countries. If and when exporters to the US stop accepting funny
>> money, your first world std of living (aka your birthright) will come
>> down crashing.
>
> Very well put. The same has been told by Bill Gates in a different
> language. Per him, Microsoft does not believe in luck of womb.
Microsoft/BillGates DOES believe in class warfare, as defined as: if you
are rich and powerful, then you are "entitled" to ride on the backs of
underlings.
> He specifically quoted that he does not believe a smart person
> born in india to a life of poverty whereas a not so smart person
> born in USA can take everything for granted as his entitlement.
And, yet, "He" considered himself "entitled" to make his fortune by
establishing a monopoly, as well as his "entitlement" to rip off
underlings, defraud competitors, and destroy competion in any way, shape,
or form.
> That's why his Microsoft does not make any distinction between
> nationalities.
Microsoft is a big parasite.
And, you lied, too. Microsoft makes a big distinction when it comes to
finding cheap labor, associated with exploitable immigrants or cheap
currency countries, like India, which cheats on its currency.
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
Well, I've talked with some guys who were in strong unions and they knew
they had a good deal.
But, at the executive level, doctors and lawyers, all those guys think
they are entitled to as much money as they can squeeze out of clients and
customers.
Of course, all these Indians in IT are a new experience for me. I've never
met an immigrant group or ethnic group as arrogant, egotistical, and
entitled to their "benefits" as "desireable" by corporations because they
are exploitable and are entitled to disrupt US/American culture.
> Usually, this crap is coming either from CEOs
Yes
as justification for
> importing cheap labor
Yes
or moving business abroad or from tribal
> propagandists as Kamal in support of superiority claims.
Kamal is either confused, or trying to make propaganda claims. They might
even be paying him as a shill to spread ideas favorable to India/Indians
and unfavorable to US people.
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> In article <b6a20a66-e83c-42be...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
> Old Pif says...
>
>>
>> In my whole life I have never seen or heard of working American
>> talking about any entitlements.
>
> Straydog and many other disgruntled mediocre americans feel they are
> entitled to a job more than an immigrant.
The hypocrasy here is that Indians thought that India belonged to the
Indians, the native people, and not the British who set up Imperial rule.
Now, these Indians think they are entitled (along with the entitlements of
CEOs) to rob from Americans their own jobs.
>> Usually, this crap is coming either from CEOs as justification for
>> importing cheap labor or moving business abroad or from tribal
>> propagandists as Kamal in support of superiority claims.
>
> Usually this defence comes from mediocre americans who just don't
> want any competition.
And, what about mediocre (or less) Indians?
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
> On Dec 28, 4:32 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 5:17 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The folks on this
>>>> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
>>>> -without delivering higher productivity.
>>
>>> You don't need to guess what the folk thinks. Just ask.
>>
>> Kamal seems to think he is the king of all economists and the god of all
>> truth.
>>
>
> He is too superior
You mean he places himself on the highest pedestal?
to ask questions. And why to ask if he knows all
> the answers.
He does not have all the answers, but he has a lot of interpretations
based on his own analysis which is not aimed at truth but a response
favorable to a particular line of thinking which is a kind of
self-fullfilling prophecy: show American culture/society/economics as
defective and India Indian culture/society/economics as perfect and
natural (i.e. "obey the power structure" which probably comes from caste
psychology: you stay where you are born in the caste level, and let the
cows shit in the street because they were born with that priviledge, just
liek CEOs are born with priviledge and underlings are nothing).
The troubles show up when he refuses to answer questions such as: if paper
money is worthless, how come at least 99% of the world is very comfortable
with it? And, when is he going to admit or confess that currency
devaluation (or tarriff setting, etc), is a known method of economic
warfare (and China, India, and other countries are practicing this as a
business model to _use_ the USA as cash cow)?
Oh, I have seen all kinds of advertisements in The Economist, WSJ, etc.,
where some 3rd world country is offering, basically, big bribes to get US
companies to set up a factory in their contry. Everything from cheap
currency, favorable laws (i.e. no regulation), tax breaks, subsidies, etc.
And, then there is the whole offshoring consultant business. They are a
bunch of whores and parasites. It makes me sick.
What is needed is for Americans to wake up and work for themselves instead
of work for foreigners. Big investment flows are NOT going into US
facilites, but foreign facilities, and taking jobs with them. How much of
our economy is supporting billions of people in OTHER countries instead of
US people?
Kamal has the story twisted around. I am not fooled by his propaganda.
Old Pif
>
> And, what about mediocre (or less) Indians?
>
There are no such. All are superior.
sopr...@godfather.com
line (=20)
In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.09...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
says...
>What is needed is for Americans to wake up and work for themselves instead
> work for foreigners. Big investment flows are NOT going into US
>facilites, but foreign facilities, and taking jobs with them. How much of
>our economy is supporting billions of people in OTHER countries instead of
>US people?
As usual the dishonest Art Sowers spoke again. Art will never talk about
that the decision to move jobs out of US was taken by US corporate and
Henry Kissinger in 1970s for many benefits to corporate USA and to
some extent even american public. Here are they listed:-
Favors Corp USA Favors Americans
No environment laws to worry about Yes
No environment degradation to worry
about Yes Yes
No labor laws Yes
Price of items very cheap Yes Yes
because of all reasons mentioned
above
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
Sounds like a joke to me.
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> what newsreader you use. It seems to put funny characters at the end of each
> line (=20)
>
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.09...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
> says...
>
>> What is needed is for Americans to wake up and work for themselves instead
>> work for foreigners. Big investment flows are NOT going into US
>> facilites, but foreign facilities, and taking jobs with them. How much of
>> our economy is supporting billions of people in OTHER countries instead of
>> US people?
>
> As usual the dishonest Art Sowers spoke again. Art will never talk about
> that the decision to move jobs out of US was taken by US corporate
This is exactly what I said above. "Big investment flows are NOT going
into US facilities, but foreign facilities..."
Talk about dishonest, you not only can't read but you can't think, either.
and
> Henry Kissinger in 1970s for many benefits to corporate USA and to
> some extent even american public. Here are they listed:-
>
> Favors Corp USA Favors Americans
>
> No environment laws to worry about Yes
>
> No environment degradation to worry
> about Yes Yes
>
> No labor laws Yes
>
> Price of items very cheap Yes Yes
> because of all reasons mentioned
> above
>
You listed all the unimportant factors, and left out the important one:
cheap currency, by currency manipulators. No lie, anyone can look this up,
and I've posted the data many times.
Old Pif
Rephrasing the classics we can say that all Indians are superior but
some (Kamal for sure) are more superior than the others.
kamal
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 6:46 pm, Old Pif <old...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 28, 5:17 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> The folks on this
> >>> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
> >>> -without delivering higher productivity.
>
> >> You don't need to guess what the folk thinks. Just ask.
>
> > I do know that this is what you think. I also know that all of you
> > would like to use the race card to do away with competition in the
> > labour market.
>
you firmly believe that jobs or the industry belongs to you because
the people who invented computers were whites?"
> Actually, it has been YOU, for at least the last five years, doing nothing
> but complain, constantly, about "whites" killing American Indians and
yes -they did just that. Reason I pointed that out is to convince you
that neither do jobs belong to the country -nor does the land which
they claim to be theirs truly belong to the american public. You
didn't have to build it from scratch as much as you inherited it by
default.
> stealing their land and saying nothing about India's 3,000 years of caste
> discrimination, Sati (burning wives when husbands die), child slave labor
> which exists even today, Thuggee (ritual murder of India Indians by India
> Indians), and 3,000 years of bloody wars, ethnic strife, and massive
> corruption.
>
yes -but if they aren't doing it to you -what's your problem? We don't
owe you an explanation on how we live.
> You're a hypocrit.
>
thanks for the compliment.
regards
-kamal
>
>
> > regards
> > -kamal
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
> On Dec 28, 11:49 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, Old Pif wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 5:14 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> And, what about mediocre (or less) Indians?
>>
>>> There are no such. All are superior.
>>
>> Sounds like a joke to me.
>>
>
> Rephrasing the classics we can say that all Indians are superior but
> some (Kamal for sure) are more superior than the others.
>
Right out of "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.
Also sounds like CEO-talk, too. "Everyone born equal....but some are more
equal than others"!
Me, ...again!
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Dec 29, 2:35 am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
>>> On Dec 28, 6:46 pm, Old Pif <old...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 28, 5:17 am, kamal <kama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The folks on this
>>>>> NG seem to think it is their birthright have that higher std of living
>>>>> -without delivering higher productivity.
>>
>>>> You don't need to guess what the folk thinks. Just ask.
>>
>>> I do know that this is what you think. I also know that all of you
>>> would like to use the race card to do away with competition in the
>>> labour market.
>>
> best way to find out is to ask all of the americans on this NG -"do
> you firmly believe that jobs or the industry belongs to you because
> the people who invented computers were whites?"
Best question all these guys can ask themselves: You pay your taxes which
the govt is entitled to demand, behave yourself according to laws your
govt is entitled to make, buy from merchants who consider themselves
entitled to require payment with money for what you buy, serve in the
armed forces which the govt maintains since it is entitled to "defend" the
country.....and ...OK...where do I get "my turn" in all of this,
especially when I'm ready, willing, and able to work?
>> Actually, it has been YOU, for at least the last five years, doing nothing
>> but complain, constantly, about "whites" killing American Indians and
>
> yes -they did just that. Reason I pointed that out is to convince you
> that neither do jobs belong to the country
The American Indians did NOT give Americans a high standard of living, did
not have a high standard of living when my ancestors came here, and did
not HELP Americans get their high standard of living. It was Americans who
built this country into what it is. It was a partnership between employers
and employees, at least up until the last 10-20 years.
I've asked you this before, too: How about if someone steals your car that
you worked and paid for? Or, maybe lets ask you: maybe you don't own your
car that you worked and paid for. Any theif can come and get it for free.
Just tell me that Americans who built America, with a lot of work and
nothing from American Indians, don't deserve the products of their work.
-nor does the land which
> they claim to be theirs truly belong to the american public. You
> didn't have to build it from scratch
Yes, we did.
as much as you inherited it by
> default.
All of New York City, and everything else here was not here before our
ancestors came.
>> stealing their land and saying nothing about India's 3,000 years of caste
>> discrimination, Sati (burning wives when husbands die), child slave labor
>> which exists even today, Thuggee (ritual murder of India Indians by India
>> Indians), and 3,000 years of bloody wars, ethnic strife, and massive
>> corruption.
>>
> yes -but if they aren't doing it to you -what's your problem?
I've explained this to you at least 200 times. MY problem is that YOU keep
bitching about how the white man killed the American Indians and stole
their lands, and I'm saying anything white people did back long ago is not
worse than what India Indians did, over 3,000+ years to other India
Indians.
We don't
> owe you an explanation on how we live.
Then, I don't owe you an explaination for actions carried out on US soil
150 to 350 years ago, either. But, you still keep bitching about it.
>> You're a hypocrit.
>>
> thanks for the compliment.
You're still a hypocrit. And, just to let you know, its not a compliment.
> regards
> -kamal
>
>>
>>
>>> regards
>>> -kamal
>
>
Tambi Dude
> Then, I don't owe you an explaination for actions carried out on US soil
> 150 to 350 years ago, either. But, you still keep bitching about it.
neither any indian who takes away a job from a american, either via
outsourcing
to bangalore or on site via H1B is answerable to any american. Now I
think I and
others have told this 2000 times in this forum.
You can take this up with your law makers, corporations. Fine by me.
The trouble is
that you can't ask them because they will fart on your face as their
reply.
So you find the easy guys to take your anger. INDIANS. Somewhat
equivalent
of this is to take the anger on the 800 support guys for a bad
product.
ps:
Well I thought a lot about it. If this is a little annoyance for
living in this country
and earning well for a satisfying job, then heck I don't mind. Does it
matter if
some bitter americans keep ranting and raving about H1B or
outsourcing.
tata. May this be my 2010 resolution to not even read this forum, let
alone
post.
Kamal: You seem to be a very smart man. Why are you wasting your time
debating with this old bitter man who has no other past time in life
except
usenet.
Me, ...again!
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009, Tambi Dude wrote:
> On Dec 29, 6:59 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>
>> Then, I don't owe you an explaination for actions carried out on US soil
>> 150 to 350 years ago, either. But, you still keep bitching about it.
>
> neither any indian who takes away a job from a american, either via
> outsourcing
> to bangalore or on site via H1B is answerable to any american.
Wrong. What happened 150-350 years ago is water over the dam, what
happens/happened this year, last year, and in recent years Americans have
a right to bitch about.
Now I
> think I and
> others have told this 2000 times in this forum.
You're just trying to escape from the fact that if YOU steal a job from an
American, then don't get the idea he's going to love you for it.
> You can take this up with your law makers, corporations. Fine by me.
> The trouble is
> that you can't ask them because they will fart on your face as their
> reply.
Well, I notice that the quotas for H1bs haven't gone up much, if at all,
and a lot of illegal aliens are being rounded up and deported.
> So you find the easy guys to take your anger. INDIANS. Somewhat
> equivalent
> of this is to take the anger on the 800 support guys for a bad
> product.
And, why not. Especially if they don't know their ass from a hole in the
ground.
> ps:
>
> Well I thought a lot about it. If this is a little annoyance for
> living in this country
> and earning well for a satisfying job, then heck I don't mind. Does it
> matter if
> some bitter americans keep ranting and raving about H1B or
> outsourcing.
Oh, if if bothers you, then you can go back to where you came from.
Oh, wasn't it you that was saying life is so bad in the USA because even
with your high salary, you can't hire some cheap Indian servants?
I notice you are not moving back to India to get those cheap servants!
Maybe there is something here that is better than home?
> tata. May this be my 2010 resolution to not even read this forum, let
> alone
> post.
You threatened to do this many months ago, yet you still come around.
> Kamal: You seem to be a very smart man.
That is because Tambi Dude is less smart.
Why are you wasting your time
> debating with this old bitter man who has no other past time in life
> except
> usenet.
Oh, it is great entertainment. I get hysterical laughter reading such
hilarious explanations (Kamalnomics) coming from Kamal.
Kamal's Konfusion and Kontradictions.
Sounds like a good tltle for another FAQ.
>
>
Old Pif
>
> You can take this up with your law makers, corporations. Fine by me.
> The trouble is that you can't ask them because they will fart on your face as their
> reply.
> So you find the easy guys to take your anger. INDIANS. Somewhat
> equivalent of this is to take the anger on the 800 support guys for a bad
> product.
>
Who can be angered on cheap insignificant dispensable item?
Me, ...again!
Hey, Old Pif...
Have you ever met an immigrant/foreigner ethnic group as arrogant as these
Indians? I have met all kinds of people, Hispanics, West Europeans, East
Europeans, Koreans, Japanese, Russians, and Chinese. And, they are all
polite, considerate, and act like normal human beings.
These Indians here....all arrogant, feel _entitled_ to anything they want.
But, to them, nobody else is entitled to anything, eh?
This reminds me when I was a kid staying in my grandfather's/grandmother's
house on a visit (they were poor farmers). They had almost nothing.
Outhouse, no toilet. And, when we all went to sleep at night, and turned
out the lights. Then all the hungry mice woke up and ran around behind the
walls making lots of noise. Headed for the pantry. I seemed to hear the
little voices
"Oh, we are here to help you. We will eat just the crumbs
of food off the floor. Too much bother for you to sweep up.
Save you some work."
And, when we woke up the next day, all those hungry little mice, got into
lots of food containers over night and ate up half of the food.
I wonder if they have mice in India?
sopr...@godfather.com
says...
>
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
stop using MIME you moron.
>Wrong. What happened 150-350 years ago is water over the dam, what
>happens/happened this year, last year, and in recent years Americans have
>a right to bitch about.
shouldn't the bitching be against companies and law makers.
So many 50+ yr Americans lose their job to 20 something fresh out
of college because companies want to save money. Do they take their
anger on the 20+ youth.
Many times companies move jobs from a high cost state like MA to a
low cost state like TN. Do they take their anger on the residents
of TN.
Many times companies outsource some of their non core departments
to some other US based company. Do they take out their anger?
In all of these cases, the individual who got shafted is no different
from an individual who got bangalored. Both lost their job which
they perceive as management greed. The only difference is that
in this case the replacement is also american born citizen either
in the same location or in some other location.
But should it matter to a person who lost his job at a time when
he needs money badly.
Fiction below:-
Management to Art Sowers: We are sorry but we have to eliminate your
position. Today is your last day.
Art Sowers: May I ask who is my replacement.
Management: John Smith of Pasadena, CA. He will work from home at
1/3 of your salary.
Art Sowers: That's OK. I am neck deep in debt, but I lost a job to
a fellow american living in his mom's basement. That's really OK.
I would have been angry if my replacement was Sanjay Singh from
India.
Life is a bitch. Accept that and move on.
Me, ...again!
Fake "soprano" who is really an Indian.....said below.
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.09...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
> says...
>
>>
>> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
>> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> stop using MIME you moron.
Why? Is your puny, weak, incompetant newsreader a poc?
>> Wrong. What happened 150-350 years ago is water over the dam, what
>> happens/happened this year, last year, and in recent years Americans have
>> a right to bitch about.
>
> shouldn't the bitching be against companies and law makers.
I have always directed my blame at the CEO robber-barrons. The law makers
are mostly in the pockets of big business, anyway.
As for Indians, I'll tell you again: it is Indian arrogance that comes
from Indian egos, and Kamal's inflated self-importance in which he, and
the rest of you Indians (unlike any other foreigner or ethnic group I have
ever met in my life), who come across with "superior attitudes" and your
own attitudes of "entitlement" which may come from your cultural-based
caste birthright which also makes hypocrits out of you.
> So many 50+ yr Americans lose their job to 20 something fresh out
> of college because companies want to save money. Do they take their
> anger on the 20+ youth.
Age discrimination has been around much longer than the laws (and
enforcements) which only went on the books some 50-60 years ago. At least
there is a trend in corporations to be careful about sellective layoffs,
or try to avoid them.
> Many times companies move jobs from a high cost state like MA to a
> low cost state like TN. Do they take their anger on the residents
> of TN.
They are too far away, but I still see no sympathy from you for the people
whose misfortune had nothing to do with their abilities and all to do
with some executive who played with his spreadsheet, screwed a bunch of
people, and maybe got a little bonus for himself, and the CEO got an even
bigger raise for approving the change.
> Many times companies outsource some of their non core departments
> to some other US based company. Do they take out their anger?
Sometimes it is anger, sometimes it is great regret, and in the end it
causes much disruption in families. Divorces, child abuse, even suicides
take place.
> In all of these cases, the individual who got shafted is no different
> from an individual who got bangalored.
This is not quite a good picture. Besides the unfair treatment, in the
second case, the job goes outside the country instead of somewhere else
_in_ the country. It is a fact that the Indian Rupee has been devalued
over the last 50 years and specifically for the purpose of sucking jobs
and money out of foreign countries, including the USA.
To me, India is not the problem that China is. But, since we have nothing
but arrogant Indians on these NGs, then I must direct my comments at them.
Economists (at least capitalist-favoring ones) talk about trade balance
and what we have is definitely not trade balance and these matters are
regularly discussed in many articles. I have nothing against India/China
growing their own economies, but not at the expense of US people and the
gross benefit of US CEOs (and Indian CEOs are making money off this, too).
Both lost their job which
> they perceive as management greed. The only difference is that
> in this case the replacement is also american born citizen either
> in the same location or in some other location.
> But should it matter to a person who lost his job at a time when
> he needs money badly.
In the end, the problem is taking money out of the pockets of underlings
and the underlings have no control over that. So I am against that
scenario. But, that sceneario has been around for hundreds to thousands of
years: underlings get screwed. So, we have a minimum wage law which is
easy to bypass, and what we need is a better "living wage law" which
business does not want because the managers/owners/executives might have
to give up their bonuses and raises.
> Fiction below:-
>
> Management to Art Sowers: We are sorry but we have to eliminate your
> position. Today is your last day.
>
> Art Sowers: May I ask who is my replacement.
>
> Management: John Smith of Pasadena, CA. He will work from home at
> 1/3 of your salary.
> Art Sowers: That's OK. I am neck deep in debt, but I lost a job to
> a fellow american living in his mom's basement. That's really OK.
> I would have been angry if my replacement was Sanjay Singh from
> India.
Yeah, all of the above is fiction, just like you said it was fiction.
> Life is a bitch. Accept that and move on.
I am happily retired, own my house, both cars, living with the same wife
for over 25 years, and my Social Security and pensions (three pensions
including wife's pension, and her own Social Security), and I have zero
debt, so I am just fine. To all the Indians who are promoting some kind of
propaganda: you will be hearing from me in the future just as much as in
the past. I am tired of hearing "Americans are lazy" and "American
standards of living are too high" and "How many American Indians did
Americans kill..." and etc., because Indians from India have a poor
history, too, but they don't want to talk about that. Just defects in
American history.
Life is a bitch, but I'm not going to remain silent about economic
injustices, and certainly not going to agree with the US corporate goal of
cheating large numbers of Americans for the purpose of benefitting a small
number of executives and stockholders who usually have far more money than
they deserve.
Old Pif
>
> Hey, Old Pif...
>
> Have you ever met an immigrant/foreigner ethnic group as arrogant as these
> Indians?
>
No, never. It is astonishing. I grew with idea that they over there
peacefully do Kama Sutra, love each other and the world. It would be
interesting to correlate that arrogance with something in their
culture and history. Occasionally I meet quite normal people from
India and I would like as the first cut to accumulate statistics of
normality across their caste system. I was told that it is possible to
establish the caste from the person name. Do you know how to learn
that?
> I wonder if they have mice in India?
I don't believe so. Only the rats left. Mouse is easier to catch and
they have eaten them long ago.
kamal
> Fake "soprano" who is really an Indian.....said below.
>
>
> > In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.0912292045270.82...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
> > says...
>
> >> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> >> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> > stop using MIME you moron.
>
> Why? Is your puny, weak, incompetant newsreader a poc?
>
text.
> >> Wrong. What happened 150-350 years ago is water over the dam, what
> >> happens/happened this year, last year, and in recent years Americans have
> >> a right to bitch about.
>
> > shouldn't the bitching be against companies and law makers.
>
> I have always directed my blame at the CEO robber-barrons. The law makers
No -read your own posts again, You mentioned that India is a dirt-
poor country that is sucking jobs out of the country. If you had to
blame CEOs, you would say that the CEOs are taking away jobs and
sending them to India and other 3rd world countries.
> are mostly in the pockets of big business, anyway.
>
yes -that is what capitalism is. You have the best government money
can buy:-).
> As for Indians, I'll tell you again: it is Indian arrogance that comes
> from Indian egos, and Kamal's inflated self-importance in which he, and
where did I consider myself superior/important? I can point to at
least one post lately in which i said that I have come across quite a
few americans who were as good as myself or better than me when I was
in the US or when I interacted with them remotely. Just to let you
know, I haven't achieved much in my career besides being a direct
contributor. There are numerous other americans as well as Indians who
have achieved a lot more than myself and I don't expect to catch up
with them in this lifetime.
> the rest of you Indians (unlike any other foreigner or ethnic group I have
> ever met in my life), who come across with "superior attitudes" and your
> own attitudes of "entitlement" which may come from your cultural-based
> caste birthright which also makes hypocrits out of you.
>
My american employer(s) don't give a damn about caste or religion.
They hire(d) because we are cheaper to hire than people in the US.
> > So many 50+ yr Americans lose their job to 20 something fresh out
> > of college because companies want to save money. Do they take their
> > anger on the 20+ youth.
>
> Age discrimination has been around much longer than the laws (and
> enforcements) which only went on the books some 50-60 years ago. At least
> there is a trend in corporations to be careful about sellective layoffs,
> or try to avoid them.
>
another bait and switch. 50+ yr olds lose their job because they are
costlier to get the same work done as compared to a 20 yr old. If the
50+ yr old cannot deliver a lot more productivity than the 20 yr old,
either he needs to take a pay cut or needs to improve on his
productivity.
> > Many times companies move jobs from a high cost state like MA to a
> > low cost state like TN. Do they take their anger on the residents
> > of TN.
>
> They are too far away, but I still see no sympathy from you for the people
we are even farther away than the distance between MA and TN.
> whose misfortune had nothing to do with their abilities and all to do
> with some executive who played with his spreadsheet, screwed a bunch of
> people, and maybe got a little bonus for himself, and the CEO got an even
> bigger raise for approving the change.
>
you are missing the point. How will the exec screw these guys if their
labour is priced correctly i.e. they are delivering the best possible
value for money?
> > Many times companies outsource some of their non core departments
> > to some other US based company. Do they take out their anger?
>
> Sometimes it is anger, sometimes it is great regret, and in the end it
> causes much disruption in families. Divorces, child abuse, even suicides
> take place.
>
lots of people commit suicide on job loss. The question was whether it
looks like the company that outsourced actually owed these guys a job?
> > In all of these cases, the individual who got shafted is no different
> > from an individual who got bangalored.
>
> This is not quite a good picture. Besides the unfair treatment, in the
> second case, the job goes outside the country instead of somewhere else
so? The guy outside could end up fueling employment inside the US by
buying stuff made in USA.
> _in_ the country. It is a fact that the Indian Rupee has been devalued
> over the last 50 years and specifically for the purpose of sucking jobs
> and money out of foreign countries, including the USA.
>
I asked you innumerable times -point me to the jobs that were sucked
out 35+ yrs back by devaluing the Indian rupee. If you don't have an
answer -let me tell you, no jobs were sucked out prior to 1991 because
Indian govt did not give authorization to foreign companies to setup
shop in India. Assuming that we are sucking out by devaluing the
currency, you can petition your lawmakers to get India to strengthen
its currency. I can assure you it will not happen because the US govt
as well as business owners (not to mention the well-to-do upper middle
class) do want a strong dollar to improve their std of living.
> To me, India is not the problem that China is. But, since we have nothing
> but arrogant Indians on these NGs, then I must direct my comments at them.
>
there is a lot of mud-slinging going on and its not a one-way thing.
My statements may well be hard to digest -but they are factually
correct.
> Economists (at least capitalist-favoring ones) talk about trade balance
> and what we have is definitely not trade balance and these matters are
> regularly discussed in many articles. I have nothing against India/China
> growing their own economies, but not at the expense of US people and the
> gross benefit of US CEOs (and Indian CEOs are making money off this, too).
>
think again -what exactly is it about you that you can actually do to
finance the growth of 2.5 billion people? Trade-able goods/services
provided to american consumers in return for US dollars are a credit
to the american economy. The dollars given to them are not real wealth
but instruments of debt. The more dollars they hold, the more indebted
you are to those ungrateful wretches and the higher the interest (in
the form of interest bearing T-bills) that you need to pay back.
> Both lost their job which
>
> > they perceive as management greed. The only difference is that
> > in this case the replacement is also american born citizen either
> > in the same location or in some other location.
> > But should it matter to a person who lost his job at a time when
> > he needs money badly.
>
> In the end, the problem is taking money out of the pockets of underlings
> and the underlings have no control over that. So I am against that
> scenario. But, that sceneario has been around for hundreds to thousands of
> years: underlings get screwed. So, we have a minimum wage law which is
> easy to bypass, and what we need is a better "living wage law" which
> business does not want because the managers/owners/executives might have
> to give up their bonuses and raises.
>
so who is preventing you from enacting a living wage law or why do you
think someone in India will have something against that? IMO -if
american computer engineers opt for a living wage which is the
national median salary of $40000 per annum, they won't have to fear
H1Bs coz the INS mandated min wage for H1Bs is $37000 per annum. No
employer will want to bring in H1B replacements for cost reasons
alone, as local manpower itself will be the best deal in the market. I
believe that such a situation already exists to a great extent.
> > Fiction below:-
>
> > Management to Art Sowers: We are sorry but we have to eliminate your
> > position. Today is your last day.
>
> > Art Sowers: May I ask who is my replacement.
>
> > Management: John Smith of Pasadena, CA. He will work from home at
> > 1/3 of your salary.
> > Art Sowers: That's OK. I am neck deep in debt, but I lost a job to
> > a fellow american living in his mom's basement. That's really OK.
> > I would have been angry if my replacement was Sanjay Singh from
> > India.
>
> Yeah, all of the above is fiction, just like you said it was fiction.
>
no -it looks like you would have actually responded that way.
> > Life is a bitch. Accept that and move on.
>
> I am happily retired, own my house, both cars, living with the same wife
> for over 25 years, and my Social Security and pensions (three pensions
> including wife's pension, and her own Social Security), and I have zero
> debt, so I am just fine. To all the Indians who are promoting some kind of
> propaganda: you will be hearing from me in the future just as much as in
> the past. I am tired of hearing "Americans are lazy" and "American
> standards of living are too high" and "How many American Indians did
ok -lets get this straightened up. Whether americans are lazy or
expecting too much is their problem. My statements were contesting the
basis of your argument that either the country belongs to you or jobs
belong to the american public. Since the land you claim belongs to you
was stolen from native americans, you have no right to say that people
coming into your country should render any services (as in be held
captive) in return for being allowed inside or to settle down. In
order for jobs to belong to you or to be taken away from americans,
they will need to identify what finances their jobs? is it national
wealth or private equity? if it is private equity -they have no legal
rights over it and hence no legal rights over jobs created by private
equity. All said and done, americans have a problem with somebody else
improving his/her prospects by working for it and not because
something was taken away from them by these hard working folks (be
they captive workers in the US or sweatshop workers in 3rd world
countries).
> Americans kill..." and etc., because Indians from India have a poor
> history, too, but they don't want to talk about that. Just defects in
> American history.
>
We actually have a rich history -but unfortunately, human life is not
held in high esteem in our land mass.
> Life is a bitch, but I'm not going to remain silent about economic
> injustices, and certainly not going to agree with the US corporate goal of
> cheating large numbers of Americans for the purpose of benefitting a small
> number of executives and stockholders who usually have far more money than
> they deserve.
they are indeed interested in making a quick buck or improving their
bottom line -but if you ask them to indulge in altruism -there is a
good chance that they will close down their shop. You need
nationalisation of industries or communism to provide jobs to workers
without an eye on return on investment. That is what civil servants
have in hand and that is what proved to be unviable in India.
regards
-kamal
sopr...@godfather.com
says...
>
>Life is a bitch, but I'm not going to remain silent about economic
>injustices, and certainly not going to agree with the US corporate goal of
>cheating large numbers of Americans for the purpose of benefitting a small
>number of executives and stockholders who usually have far more money than
>they deserve.
You must be a bigger idiot than I have so far concluded about you, if you
actually think that your rants here is going to make even an iota of a
difference to anything. What a delusionary moron?
sopr...@godfather.com
kamal says...
>so who is preventing you from enacting a living wage law or why do you
>think someone in India will have something against that? IMO -if
>american computer engineers opt for a living wage which is the
>national median salary of $40000 per annum, they won't have to fear
>H1Bs coz the INS mandated min wage for H1Bs is $37000 per annum. No
>employer will want to bring in H1B replacements for cost reasons
>alone, as local manpower itself will be the best deal in the market. I
>believe that such a situation already exists to a great extent.
Yes. Many americans are really dense or take it as their entitlement
that they deserve XXX salary, even if no one wants to hire them at
that. They would bitch about immigrants working for cheaper salary.
So what stopped them from working at cheaper salary, or do they
think unemployment dole is actually a better option.
Me, ...again!
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Dec 30, 10:20 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> Fake "soprano" who is really an Indian.....said below.
>>
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 sopra...@godfather.com wrote:
>>
>>> In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.0912292045270.82...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
>>> says...
>>
>>>> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
>>>> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>>
>>> stop using MIME you moron.
>>
>> Why? Is your puny, weak, incompetant newsreader a poc?
>>
> or maybe because some people do not want to see anything but ascii
> text.
>
>>>> Wrong. What happened 150-350 years ago is water over the dam, what
>>>> happens/happened this year, last year, and in recent years Americans have
>>>> a right to bitch about.
>>
>>> shouldn't the bitching be against companies and law makers.
>>
>> I have always directed my blame at the CEO robber-barrons. The law makers
>
> No -read your own posts again, You mentioned that India is a dirt-
> poor country that is sucking jobs out of the country.
Sorry, my mistake. I also blame both the strong dollar policy AND the
weak/cheap India currency. Together with the CEO robber -barrons, and
Reserve Bank of India which has been continually devaluing Indian
currency, that is the majority of the problem.
If you had to
> blame CEOs, you would say that the CEOs are taking away jobs and
> sending them to India and other 3rd world countries.
In the end, it is India that is benefiting in the long run from raining
jobs into India. The CEOs are relatively few, but obscenely overpaid.
>> are mostly in the pockets of big business, anyway.
>>
> yes -that is what capitalism is. You have the best government money
> can buy:-).
Yes, I agree. It makes me sick.
>> As for Indians, I'll tell you again: it is Indian arrogance that comes
>> from Indian egos, and Kamal's inflated self-importance in which he, and
>
> where did I consider myself superior/important? I can point to at
> least one post lately in which i said that I have come across quite a
> few americans who were as good as myself or better than me when I was
> in the US or when I interacted with them remotely. Just to let you
> know, I haven't achieved much in my career besides being a direct
> contributor.
Then I wish you luck and start planing for retirement resources before you
wake up and find you have not enough money.
There are numerous other americans as well as Indians who
> have achieved a lot more than myself and I don't expect to catch up
> with them in this lifetime.
Fine, OK.
>> the rest of you Indians (unlike any other foreigner or ethnic group I have
>> ever met in my life), who come across with "superior attitudes" and your
>> own attitudes of "entitlement" which may come from your cultural-based
>> caste birthright which also makes hypocrits out of you.
>>
>
> My american employer(s) don't give a damn about caste or religion.
I already know this. It is too bad they don't give a damn about the
_freedom_ given to them by this country to make expandable business with
minimum corruption, bribes, payoffs, and so they don't think they should
give back anything, because of their greedy-selfish stupidity.
> They hire(d) because we are cheaper to hire than people in the US.
But they still feel "entitled" to charge what the market will bear, too.
>>> So many 50+ yr Americans lose their job to 20 something fresh out
>>> of college because companies want to save money. Do they take their
>>> anger on the 20+ youth.
>>
>> Age discrimination has been around much longer than the laws (and
>> enforcements) which only went on the books some 50-60 years ago. At least
>> there is a trend in corporations to be careful about sellective layoffs,
>> or try to avoid them.
>>
>
> another bait and switch. 50+ yr olds lose their job because they are
> costlier to get the same work done as compared to a 20 yr old.
Only if the 50+ year old has been in the same company getting pay
increments and they would rather fire the guy and get another warm body
at _entry level_ wages. The same company does not consider work experience
as worth anything, and so quality goes down because entry level guys take
years to gain experience. Also, entry level guys are too ignorant to
recognize stupid management low intelligence.
If the
> 50+ yr old cannot deliver a lot more productivity than the 20 yr old,
> either he needs to take a pay cut or needs to improve on his
> productivity.
So, what you have said is that it is OK to just dump people as they get
older and forget them. Trouble is, companies need to sell products to as
many as possible, not just shrink customer base from 20-50 year olds down
to 20-29 year olds.
And, I can take you to many business places near me where they have mostly
older people, not younger people. Must be a reason or two. Can you guess
(Mr. Know-it-all, YOU)?
>
>>> Many times companies move jobs from a high cost state like MA to a
>>> low cost state like TN. Do they take their anger on the residents
>>> of TN.
>>
>> They are too far away, but I still see no sympathy from you for the people
>
> we are even farther away than the distance between MA and TN.
At least I can say I am sorry for any Asians making still today, $1-2/day,
and that is some 1.5-2 billion. Capitalism and globalization did not help
them.
>> whose misfortune had nothing to do with their abilities and all to do
>> with some executive who played with his spreadsheet, screwed a bunch of
>> people, and maybe got a little bonus for himself, and the CEO got an even
>> bigger raise for approving the change.
>>
>
> you are missing the point. How will the exec screw these guys if their
> labour is priced correctly i.e. they are delivering the best possible
> value for money?
You really mean: i) the highest net profit, and ii) the executives will
get raises and bonuses even if the company does worse (and that is a fact
in most cases, too, so why are the executives _entitled_ to preferential
treatment, and the underlings still get laid off?).
"Priced correctly" is a buzzword for "cheapest." In other words, screw the
underlings.
>>> Many times companies outsource some of their non core departments
>>> to some other US based company. Do they take out their anger?
>>
>> Sometimes it is anger, sometimes it is great regret, and in the end it
>> causes much disruption in families. Divorces, child abuse, even suicides
>> take place.
>>
> lots of people commit suicide on job loss. The question was whether it
> looks like the company that outsourced actually owed these guys a job?
My view is whether the country owes the company the right to do damage to
the society in the country AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE COMPANY IS SUCKING
MONEY OUT OF THE SOCIETY IN THE COUNTRY.
>>> In all of these cases, the individual who got shafted is no different
>>> from an individual who got bangalored.
>>
>> This is not quite a good picture. Besides the unfair treatment, in the
>> second case, the job goes outside the country instead of somewhere else
>
> so? The guy outside could end up fueling employment inside the US by
> buying stuff made in USA.
Hypothetical and invalid when stuff made in the USA is too expensive to
buy because the exchange rate makes imports much more expensive.
>> _in_ the country. It is a fact that the Indian Rupee has been devalued
>> over the last 50 years and specifically for the purpose of sucking jobs
>> and money out of foreign countries, including the USA.
>>
> I asked you innumerable times -point me to the jobs that were sucked
> out 35+ yrs back by devaluing the Indian rupee.
35 years ago, there was no internet and no way to move work to India. But,
starting 10-15 years ago this kept increasing. Point you to the jobs?
There have been many articles in the trade computer journals that added up
millions of jobs out of USA to India. Are you seriously trying to tell me
you can't see this or you can't use Google to find out or do you expect
me to find some references? If I spend some time, I can dig them out.
Before India, millions more went to Japan. But that is a more complicated
case than exchange rates.
And, now, since China became WTO member in 2001, and its massive
devaluation of the renminbi in early 1990s (this is easy to find, too, and
I have saved the newspaper clippings), lots of US businesses closed.
If you don't have an
> answer -let me tell you, no jobs were sucked out prior to 1991 because
> Indian govt did not give authorization to foreign companies to setup
> shop in India.
Lets go back to the History of India book I quoted from....
-------------
I looked up the Indian Rupee to USD exchange rate in an Almanac I have in
my personal library. Going back 30-35 years, India continuously
and slowly devalued its Rupee over all of that period up to now
where the exchange rate is about 46-48 Rs per USD. Another
history book I have from about 1940s-50s said that the exchange
rate was about 4 Rs per USD.
Thanking these dumb Indians who made me mad enough to read Indian history
and world economics to educate myself so it is easy to detect their lies
and misrepresentations, now I have a new revelation for all of you. The
latest book I read was "A New History of India" 3rd edition, by Stanley
Wolpert (1989, Oxford University Press, 493 pp), and I read it cover to
cover, and made a lot of notes.
Here it is, on page 379, a quote:
"In June 1966, however, when Mrs. Gandi announced the devaluation of
India's Rupee from 4.76 to 7.50 to the US dollar, leaders of India's
opposition parties all interpreted the act as an official confession of
the failure of Indian economic planning...." and after the next sentence
is this sentence:"Mrs. Gandi insisted that devaluation was required to
increase the sale of Indian exports to earn more foreign exchange [i.e.
foreign currency]. 'No nation has acheived economic growth or any kind of
independence, political or economic, without going through hell and fire.'
she informed India's press."
----------
The book, as I remember it, did report an increase in exports from India
in the years after Gandi devalued the Rupee. It was not high tech stuff,
but ag products and other local productions.
============
Assuming that we are sucking out by devaluing the
> currency, you can petition your lawmakers to get India to strengthen
> its currency.
I know the US and Europe has asked China to let the renminbi rise, and
China has said "screw you" as an answer.
Quite frankly, I think there is actually more world sympathy for India
because of its poverty and no one would openly make this suggestion.
However, India is also not interested in "free trade" either, but only
interested in max exports for money. Not whether it is fair or not,
either.
I can assure you it will not happen because the US govt
> as well as business owners (not to mention the well-to-do upper middle
> class) do want a strong dollar to improve their std of living.
At some point there is a conflict between business short term interests
and overall long term interests for the overall good of the USA. So far,
this country has helped Japan, SE Asia, Tigers, India, China over the last
50 years and it is draining the USA.
The strong dollar has both advantages and disadvantages. It is beyond the
scope of this post for me to list all of them. And, in your case, it would
be a waste of my time.
>> To me, India is not the problem that China is. But, since we have nothing
>> but arrogant Indians on these NGs, then I must direct my comments at them.
>>
> there is a lot of mud-slinging going on and its not a one-way thing.
> My statements may well be hard to digest -but they are factually
> correct.
We are in disagreement and your "facts" are nothing but a sellective
interpretation of the overall situation.
>> Economists (at least capitalist-favoring ones) talk about trade balance
>> and what we have is definitely not trade balance and these matters are
>> regularly discussed in many articles. I have nothing against India/China
>> growing their own economies, but not at the expense of US people and the
>> gross benefit of US CEOs (and Indian CEOs are making money off this, too).
>>
>
> think again -what exactly is it about you that you can actually do to
> finance the growth of 2.5 billion people?
Why don't you think? If one poor person in Asia making $1-2/day and my
income is $75/day, then I can easily spare $1-2 to pay that guy to do
something. With our trade deficit at $20-30 billion per month, just
calculate how many people that supports. Even it is $10/day, those
billions going out supports many more than the 300+ million Americans.
Trade-able goods/services
> provided to american consumers in return for US dollars are a credit
> to the american economy. The dollars given to them are not real wealth
> but instruments of debt. The more dollars they hold, the more indebted
> you are to those ungrateful wretches and the higher the interest (in
> the form of interest bearing T-bills) that you need to pay back.
They should be happy to be invested in the safest securities in the world,
plus the stable govt, plus the interest.
>> Both lost their job which
>>
>>> they perceive as management greed. The only difference is that
>>> in this case the replacement is also american born citizen either
>>> in the same location or in some other location.
>>> But should it matter to a person who lost his job at a time when
>>> he needs money badly.
>>
>> In the end, the problem is taking money out of the pockets of underlings
>> and the underlings have no control over that. So I am against that
>> scenario. But, that sceneario has been around for hundreds to thousands of
>> years: underlings get screwed. So, we have a minimum wage law which is
>> easy to bypass, and what we need is a better "living wage law" which
>> business does not want because the managers/owners/executives might have
>> to give up their bonuses and raises.
>>
>
> so who is preventing you from enacting a living wage law
Its not that simple. Politicians are in favor of this, but the lobbyists
from the companies fight this very hard every time it comes up, and the
corporations have more money.
or why do you
> think someone in India will have something against that?
Hah, I've seen a lot of articles in the media promoting all the reasons
for expanding H1b visas, opening the doors, etc., always by foreigners and
always by companies "crying" for the "shortage" of workers when they are
simultaneously laying off all their staff. What hypocrits. They just want
cheaper labor. Then, there are the Indian companies who want to export
Indians to the USA, on H1bs, pay them less, then undercut US companies to
get the contracts. I have several articles, I think I can find one for
sure, where the Indian government refused to make progress on trade talks
unless it got more H1bs.
That's a short list.
IMO -if
> american computer engineers opt for a living wage which is the
> national median salary of $40000 per annum, they won't have to fear
> H1Bs coz the INS mandated min wage for H1Bs is $37000 per annum.
Fine, I'd like to see executives make no more than $80,000 and CEOs no
more than $120,000 per year, and keep the "line staff" at $40,000/year.
Then, I'll be quiet.
And, forget the INS min wage for H1Bs because I've heard a lot are getting
much less. Its also a ripoff for the Indians, too.
No
> employer will want to bring in H1B replacements for cost reasons
> alone, as local manpower itself will be the best deal in the market. I
> believe that such a situation already exists to a great extent.
In my neighborhood we have a lot of Russians, east Europeans, former SR,
all in restaurants as waitstaff, and grocery stores as cashiers, etc.
>>> Fiction below:-
>>
>>> Management to Art Sowers: We are sorry but we have to eliminate your
>>> position. Today is your last day.
>>
>>> Art Sowers: May I ask who is my replacement.
>>
>>> Management: John Smith of Pasadena, CA. He will work from home at
>>> 1/3 of your salary.
>>> Art Sowers: That's OK. I am neck deep in debt, but I lost a job to
>>> a fellow american living in his mom's basement. That's really OK.
>>> I would have been angry if my replacement was Sanjay Singh from
>>> India.
>>
>> Yeah, all of the above is fiction, just like you said it was fiction.
>>
> no -it looks like you would have actually responded that way.
Well, then, you guessed wrong.
>>> Life is a bitch. Accept that and move on.
>>
>> I am happily retired, own my house, both cars, living with the same wife
>> for over 25 years, and my Social Security and pensions (three pensions
>> including wife's pension, and her own Social Security), and I have zero
>> debt, so I am just fine. To all the Indians who are promoting some kind of
>> propaganda: you will be hearing from me in the future just as much as in
>> the past. I am tired of hearing "Americans are lazy" and "American
>> standards of living are too high" and "How many American Indians did
>
> ok -lets get this straightened up. Whether americans are lazy or
> expecting too much is their problem. My statements were contesting the
> basis of your argument that either the country belongs to you or jobs
> belong to the american public.
In the last century many international infrastructures have been set up.
The United Nations (1950s?), at least 300 international business
regulatory agencies (I read the book on this) 1950s-2000s, and vastly more
efficient internatinal banking (also starting in the 1970s) which now
makes it possible to move $billions around the world in seconds, and so we
don't have imperialism or colonialism any more. India belongs to Indians,
and all the other countries belong to their people. No, when companies
come to the USA, they should hire Americans. US companies who want to
_sell_ to Americans should also _hire_ Americans. Not this bullshit where
_sell_ to US, but hire _cheap_ labor someplace else.
Since the land you claim belongs to you
> was stolen from native americans,
Look, the Native Americans were not organized, were not perceived to have
"human rights" as started to come into existence in 1800s, did not have
anything, and I hardly think the land was stolen since there were so _few_
of them and they did not have law, books, writing, or concepts of
"ownership" and the land was so open and unocupied, AND what ever happened
200+ years ago was BEYOND MY CONTROL, then YOUR attempt to throw a "guilt
trip" on me is a kangaroo court.
And, you're a hypocrit since Indians --when they fought the British to get
India's independence--decided that India belongs to Indians and not the
British. And that means anything in India belongs to Indians, just as I
say _anything_ (including the jobs in America) belong to Americans.
Otherwise, I'll say: OK, let the British come back and take over India
(but I am not in favor of that).
you have no right to say that people
> coming into your country should render any services (as in be held
> captive) in return for being allowed inside or to settle down. In
> order for jobs to belong to you or to be taken away from americans,
> they will need to identify what finances their jobs?
No, this is Kamal's argument. The government _allows_ the corporations
special priviledges and the government can de-charter a corporation (if it
wants to) and it is the government that guarantees the rights of the
citizens. The corporation is a big parasite.
is it national
> wealth or private equity? if it is private equity -they have no legal
> rights over it and hence no legal rights over jobs created by private
> equity.
No, the sovereign nation comes first, otherwise you have like British
imperialism in India because India was not organized.
All said and done, americans have a problem with somebody else
> improving his/her prospects by working for it and not because
> something was taken away from them by these hard working folks (be
> they captive workers in the US or sweatshop workers in 3rd world
> countries).
As far as I'm concerned I have no problem with India improving itself and
its people, but not at USA's expense.
>> Americans kill..." and etc., because Indians from India have a poor
>> history, too, but they don't want to talk about that. Just defects in
>> American history.
>>
> We actually have a rich history -but unfortunately, human life is not
> held in high esteem in our land mass.
It's sure obvious after reading the books. Same problem in China, and SE
asia.
>> Life is a bitch, but I'm not going to remain silent about economic
>> injustices, and certainly not going to agree with the US corporate goal of
>> cheating large numbers of Americans for the purpose of benefitting a small
>> number of executives and stockholders who usually have far more money than
>> they deserve.
>
> they are indeed interested in making a quick buck or improving their
> bottom line -but if you ask them to indulge in altruism -there is a
> good chance that they will close down their shop.
This is a critical issue and very funny that guys like Bill Gates spends
decades screwing everyone he can, now spends $billions in a hobby of
"altruism". And, by the way, I've followed quite a bit of it; most of his
projects have failed, too.
You need
> nationalisation of industries or communism to provide jobs to workers
> without an eye on return on investment.
Well, there should be something better than what we have.
That is what civil servants
> have in hand and that is what proved to be unviable in India.
Again, you have to look at all sides of the question and its very
complicated.
> regards
> -kamal
>
>
Me, ...again!
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
The fact of the matter is that among our politicians are a few who do
consider China (our major problem) as cheating on trade. WTO has voted
against China in several recent cases now.
My rants _here_ are showing that YOUR _rants_ here are not absolutely true
or valid. And, my _rants_ are also showing that I am voting for my fellow
citizens and NOT letting YOUR _rants_ scare me away.
I think a lot of things are going to be changing in the near future and it
is because more people--as shown in recent poles--are thinking that
globalization is not benefitting Americans.
If YOU want to fantasize that what I'm doing is delusional, then you're
welcome to continue to fantasize. I think your mindset comes from typical
Indian psychology of caste "entitlement" birthright, so if you are high
enough, you can feel like hot shit. And, if you are low enough, nobody
in the world can save you, so you give up.
Me, ...again!
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> In article <7babf926-35f5-464e...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> kamal says...
>
>> so who is preventing you from enacting a living wage law or why do you
>> think someone in India will have something against that? IMO -if
>> american computer engineers opt for a living wage which is the
>> national median salary of $40000 per annum, they won't have to fear
>> H1Bs coz the INS mandated min wage for H1Bs is $37000 per annum. No
>> employer will want to bring in H1B replacements for cost reasons
>> alone, as local manpower itself will be the best deal in the market. I
>> believe that such a situation already exists to a great extent.
>
> Yes. Many americans are really dense or take it as their entitlement
And, many Indians take it as their entitlement to tell Americans they
can't have their entitlements.
> that they deserve XXX salary, even if no one wants to hire them at
> that.
Everyone was getting along fine in the USA until "globalization" came
along and showed corporations how to: i) cheat American workers and
exploit foreigners, and ii) allow CEO "entitlements" to all the money they
can rob from anyone they way.
They would bitch about immigrants working for cheaper salary.
> So what stopped them from working at cheaper salary, or do they
> think unemployment dole is actually a better option.
Salary must be enough for maintenance of standard of living.
Why don't you ask CEOs to lower their standard of living from 1,000 times
more than normal down to maybe 2-3 times higher than normal. Should be
plenty for them.
But, you're too dumb to see your own hypocrasy.
indiaBPOking
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, morris croy wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 3:28 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
> >> And, ask millions of Indians if they ever might thank US CEOs and the
> >> Reserve Bank of India for all the help they got in getting a US job
> >> transfered to them.
>
> > Maybe one day they'll reincorporate in Antarctica.
>
> I think before that, India will become the "Mexico" of Asia and China will
> become the "America" of Asia.
Before that USA is going to see massive civil unrest in all major US
cities starting with LA, California. The reason being:
1. IOU's not being honored by the banks.
2. Massive layoffs in govt. and private sector.
3. Food shortages.
4. Hyper inflation in essential goods and commodities.
Any one of these can provide the spark for massive and uncontrolled
riots.
indiaBPOking
>
> Then, try to imagine how Japan is going to feel about China in another ten
> years. China might eat Japan, too. Formosa/Taiwan will just be a desert or
> appetizer, then.
Old Pif
> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, morris croy wrote:
> > > On Dec 27, 3:28 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
> > >> And, ask millions of Indians if they ever might thank US CEOs and the
> > >> Reserve Bank of India for all the help they got in getting a US job
> > >> transfered to them.
>
> > > Maybe one day they'll reincorporate in Antarctica.
>
> > I think before that, India will become the "Mexico" of Asia and China will
> > become the "America" of Asia.
>
> Before that USA is going to see massive civil unrest in all major US
> cities starting with LA, California. The reason being:
> 1. IOU's not being honored by the banks.
> 2. Massive layoffs in govt. and private sector.
> 3. Food shortages.
> 4. Hyper inflation in essential goods and commodities.
>
> Any one of these can provide the spark for massive and uncontrolled
> riots.
>
> indiaBPOking
>
5. End of outsourcing. As a consequence of 1,2 and 4.
sopr...@godfather.com
says...
>Everyone was getting along fine in the USA until "globalization" came
>along and showed corporations how to: i) cheat American workers and
>exploit foreigners, and ii) allow CEO "entitlements" to all the money they
>can rob from anyone they way.
american auto makers were fine before Japanese car makers came to US and wrecked
the market with their vastly superior cars.
Art Sower solution: Ban all auto makers except GM and Ford.
>
> They would bitch about immigrants working for cheaper salary.
>> So what stopped them from working at cheaper salary, or do they
>> think unemployment dole is actually a better option.
>
>Salary must be enough for maintenance of standard of living.
You missed the point. If you remain unemployed, how would you
maintain your std of living any better.
Curiously this argument comes only from americans. No indian ever complains
that he lost his job to another indian or a paki or a chinese because of
lower pay the other person accepted. Curious very curious.
Me, ...again!
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, indiaBPOking wrote:
> On Dec 27, 12:54 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, morris croy wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 3:28 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com> wrote:
>>>> And, ask millions of Indians if they ever might thank US CEOs and the
>>>> Reserve Bank of India for all the help they got in getting a US job
>>>> transfered to them.
>>
>>> Maybe one day they'll reincorporate in Antarctica.
>>
>> I think before that, India will become the "Mexico" of Asia and China will
>> become the "America" of Asia.
>
> Before that USA is going to see massive civil unrest in all major US
> cities starting with LA, California. The reason being:
> 1. IOU's not being honored by the banks.
There has not been a major collapse in the banking system in the USA since
the FDIC was instituted.
> 2. Massive layoffs in govt. and private sector.
All depressions on record, in all countries, show a temporary fall in
economy to some minimum which is then followed by a recovery.
Actually, govt layoffs to date have been minimal.
> 3. Food shortages.
Based on the newspapers and my personal visits to the grocery stores, we
have as much food as we've always had: plenty.
> 4. Hyper inflation in essential goods and commodities.
From the present going back some years, our real inflation has been
minimal.
> Any one of these can provide the spark for massive and uncontrolled
> riots.
According to the reports, even crime and homicide have gone down
measurably in the last 1-2 years. Same was found during the Great
Depression.
I think your brain is defective.
Me, ...again!
Ergo, India becomes the "Mexico" of Asia.
Me, ...again!
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 fake sopr...@godfather.com, who is really an Indian,
wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.09...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
> says...
>
>> Everyone was getting along fine in the USA until "globalization" came
>> along and showed corporations how to: i) cheat American workers and
>> exploit foreigners, and ii) allow CEO "entitlements" to all the money they
>> can rob from anyone they way.
>
> american auto makers were fine before Japanese car makers came to US and wrecked
> the market with their vastly superior cars.
This was due to the enormous arrogance of Detroit auto executives. Japan
worked hard to continuously improve their cars and Detroit did not until
recently. Actually several models of Fords are now rated as good as
Toyota, the major Japanese brand.
> Art Sower solution: Ban all auto makers except GM and Ford.
GM was on a downslide for decades, and still does not come up well in
Consumer Reports. Chrysler? They might not survive.
>>
>> They would bitch about immigrants working for cheaper salary.
>>> So what stopped them from working at cheaper salary, or do they
>>> think unemployment dole is actually a better option.
>>
>> Salary must be enough for maintenance of standard of living.
>
> You missed the point. If you remain unemployed, how would you
> maintain your std of living any better.
No, that is MY point: If US corporations want to make profits in the US,
then they have to have employees to receive money to buy the products of
the US corporations.
And, also, US executives are way overpaid.
> Curiously this argument comes only from americans. No indian ever complains
> that he lost his job to another indian or a paki or a chinese because of
> lower pay the other person accepted.
Actually, there have been reports of this, too, and in the newspapers.
> Curious very curious.
You have your eyes turned off, brain not awake, also sellective hearing
and reading.
>
sopr...@godfather.com
says...
>This was due to the enormous arrogance of Detroit auto executives.
You have an excuse for everything. Fact is "everything was fine before..."
logic is flawed. And that's why I gave the jap cars in US example.
>No, that is MY point: If US corporations want to make profits in the US,
>then they have to have employees to receive money to buy the products of
>the US corporations.
In other words bait and switch is your point. I am talking about an unemployed
american IT worker who claims that his unemployment is due to bangalore or H1B.
So my retort is (this is what kamal has been saying too), if that worker is
ready to work for 40K instead of 90K, chances of him getting a job is far more.
Surely 40K is better than 0K. Yes it may hurt his ego that he is now working
for less than half of what he use to make. But isn't life a bitch.
Why would any one employ an H1B if an american is willing to work for 40K. It
makes no sense to transfer that job to India if all it cost is 40K.
I once read a report that majority of jobs going to india were in the range of
70K+. I am referring to IT jobs, not 800 call center jobs.
>And, also, US executives are way overpaid.
do you or me have any control or that? So why bother?
sopr...@godfather.com
says...
>And, also, US executives are way overpaid.
In IT many skills are overpaid purely because of demand vs supply reason.
About 12 yrs back SAP consultants were paid order of magnitude more than
a C or a Cobol programmer. All for what? It is not as if SAP consultants
are doing a life saving work or a job which requires deep knowledge of
computer science.
Me, ...again!
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 sopr...@godfather.com wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.61.09...@osmium.mv.net>, Me, ...again!
> says...
>
>> And, also, US executives are way overpaid.
>
> In IT many skills are overpaid purely because of demand vs supply reason.
To some degree, yes. However, outside of IT, many MORE skills are paid
higher for the reason that the customer is rich. For example, corporate
lawyers for the last few years are getting over $1,000 per hour. Not
because they are doing 10X more value than $100/hr lawyers, but because
the corporation is rich and the lawyer is going to look at the (rich)
corporation and tell them: "OK, we are going to cost you $ 1 mil in fees
and our work is going to get you or save you an extra $100 mil, or more,
in income, fuck you."
> About 12 yrs back SAP consultants were paid order of magnitude more than
> a C or a Cobol programmer. All for what? It is not as if SAP consultants
> are doing a life saving work or a job which requires deep knowledge of
> computer science.
SAP was doing something like CRM with all-encompasing SW packages and it
was a hot idea and so -- as I recall reading -- the demand was high.
Obviously, the seller has the market.
However, look at these examples (also true life stories). Our Medicare
program (a big cash cow for our Medical industry) pays $120 to have a
person go to a house and set up an oxygen bottle for an old person with
emphysema (or other sad lung problem, eg. brown lung, black lung, etc),
and the company finds some floozie ex-drunk, widow/divorcee, drug-rehab
woman (not immigrant, either) and pays her $7/hr for that job (it was
in a WSJ article years ago). $ 113 net profit per shot.
Shall I name more examples like this?
Or, shall I just ask why high end US CEOs get 400X what ave American gets
in pay. And, what does CEO really do? Sit in a cushy chair and ask all his
VPs: "OK, guys, we need to solve problems X,Y,Z, and by tommorrow morning
at 9 am I want your written recommendations, proposals, solutions to be on
my desk or you can hit the road, and you might be hitting the road
anyway." And, the CEO reads all the stuff and choses which music record to
play.
Same parallel to what you are talking about (at least I think I
undestand what you are saying, and I agree with it).
Or, here is another one: I had to get a simple prescription for a simple
medication for a simple condition from a specific doctor recently. It
ended up taking three visits and two blood tests involving two more
separate visits (charges to my Medicare were like $90, 60+, and 60+,
and two times $60) just for a piece of paper so I can make another visit
to drug store (who charges my Medicare and sup insurance some more money),
and the doc wants me to come back 3X per year (charges at least 3x60) plus
some more blood tests. So, I am the catalyst for the transfer of tax money
to the already very well paid docs for doing infinitesimally small
responsibility and using infinitesimally small amount of significant
medical knowledge.
I (can) call this the Medical industry's (the "doctor" class)
"entitlement" to very large compensation for very little real work, which
also means the Pharma industry's "entitlement" to as high as possible
prices (dollars) for stuff they make for pennies.
Yeah, we can have some more philosophical discussions about these
"entitlements," couldn't we? ;-)