The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous
Dionysus
HEAD: HEALTHCARE
I got this e-mail today from a friend who got it by way of "Forward".
Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis.
See what you think of his letter.
Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it
around to our other representatives.
Stephen Fraser
July 23, 2009
Senator Bayh,
As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill
before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the
brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician
relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration
patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a
healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees
that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently
making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.
I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following
troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe
that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow
citizens.
Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all
employers that self insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides
what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
Benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
illegal or otherwise
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a
National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your banks
accounts for elective funds transfer.
Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families
in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC
plans in the Exchange.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The
Govt will ration your Healthcare!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services.
Example - Translation: illegal aliens.
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN &
Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP
members - your Health care WILL be rationed.
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No !
"judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The
Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public
option plan. NO CHOICE!
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND
their families.
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not
provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't
provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC
according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual
taxes. (Americans will pay)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access
to ALL Americans finances /personal records.
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that!
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have,
you'll all be paid the same!
Page 25! 3 Line 1 0-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession,
judgment etc. Literally value of humans.
Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC
industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven
wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer
patients - welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems
preventable re-admissions.
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that
results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors
what/how much they can own!
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating
hospitals cannot expand.
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based
measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.
Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.
Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureau cracy - Tele-health Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?
Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life patients.
Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills,
durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The
Govt has a say in how your life ends.
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used
frequently as patients health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for
end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end
of life order.
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will
have at end of life!
Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations.
Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly
payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which
means they will insert Govt into your marriage.
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those services.
Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform
patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills
you and your colleagues are debating.
Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the
country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything
in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.
Respectfully,
Stephen E Fraser MD
***************
And you bedazzled bro-zos and ho-zos in thrall of B.O., The Lyin' Prick
actually support this?!?! How astoundingly stupid of you.
"A society in which you're free to choose your cable package, your iTunes
downloads, and who ululates the best on American Idol but in which the
government takes care of peripheral stuff like your body is a society no
longer truly free."-- Mark Steyn
"Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, 'as an imperative to do
everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others"
(Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).' "--Dr.
Ezekiel Emanuel, brother to Rahm Emanuel and advisor to Obama
Dionysus
zzbu...@netscape.net
Well, that's why only idiot govt people even work on the moron
bill.
The people with brains still work on self-assembling robots, self-
replicating machines,
electronic books, distributed processing software, hdtv, home
broadband, on-line banking,
on-line publishing, cruise missiles, drones, phalanx, gps,
biodiesel, solar energy,
gas turbines, and :UAVs.
Lamont Cranston
> FROM FREE REPUBLIC
You're a FREEPER? ROTFLMAO!
Stephen
the anonymous writer of this email had actually read the bill, he or
she would know better.
Here are the facts. Anyone can verify them by reading the bill at
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text
Actual itemized contents of the Health Care Reform Bill:
"Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!"
TRUTH: This is not an "audit," it's a study. Moreover, the bill states
(pp. 22-23) that the report will "include any recommendations the
Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide
incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or create
adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-
insured employers." This is almost directly the opposite of the
email's claim.
"Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!"
TRUTH: Page 29 continues to define the "essential benefits package"
and discusses limits on what Americans will have to spend on health
care under this minimum standard. In no way does this section
stipulate the rationing of care.
"Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and
benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals
process)"
TRUTH: Page 30 begins to describe the Health Benefits Advisory
Committee which establishes certain minimum standards for health
insurance plans. In no way does this committee deny treatments and
benefits to Americans with health insurance.
"Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health
benefits for you. You will have no choice. None."
TRUTH: Page 42 begins to describe the Health Choices Commissioner's
duties. The idea that this person will decide what benefits Americans
receive is patently false, given that most Americans will keep their
current plans under reform, and Americans within the exchange will
have the choice of purchasing many different kinds of health plans.
Rather, the Commissioner will establish minimum standards to protect
Americans.
"Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with
free healthcare services."
TRUTH: Pages 50-51 contain a provision stating that discrimination
will not be allowed in the provision of health care services. Nowhere
does the bill state that non-US citizens will be provided free health
care services. The bill prohibits federal dollars from being used for
undocumented immigrants.
"Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard."
TRUTH: Page 58, in the context of a discussion of administrative
standards, mentions that "determination of an individual's financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible,
prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a
specific service with a specific physician at a specific
facility...may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan
beneficiary identification card." In no way does the bill state that
such a card would be national, or that it would be issued to every
person, or that it would, in fact, be used at all.
"Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to
all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer."
TRUTH: Page 59 continues the discussion of administrative standards,
and authorizes electronic transfers of money within the government. In
no way does this provision grant the government access to individual
bank accounts.
"Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community
organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)"
TRUTH: Here's what page 65 says: "Not later than 90 days after the
date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human
Services shall establish a temporary reinsurance program to provide
reimbursement to assist participating employment-based plans with the
cost of providing health benefits to retirees and to eligible spouses,
surviving spouses and dependents of such retirees." No mention is made
of unions or community organizations.
"Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government
rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange."
TRUTH: That's true! Plans have to have a minimum standard of benefits,
bat can offer other plans as well. But that's fair, isn't it? Private
insurers can continue to operate outside the exchange if they wish -
should the government establish no standards for the exchange? In that
case, how could reform end insurance industry abuses and help to
control costs?
"Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the
Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private
plans)"
TRUTH: This section says is that if private health care plans want to
operate in the Exchange, they must provide a basic benefit package.
"Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services;
translation: illegal aliens"
TRUTH: Some American citizens are more comfortable speaking a language
other than English, especially in a sensitive situation like a
consultation with their doctor. This provision in no way opens the
door for coverage of undocumented workers.
"Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up
individuals for Government-run Health Care plan."
TRUTH: Page 95 makes no mention of ACORN and Americorps; all it says
is that the Commissioner can conduct outreach to vulnerable
populations, making them aware of their options.
"Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled:
you have no choice in the matter."
TRUTH: People who are eligible for Medicaid will not have to face the
burdens of paperwork and other bureaucratic struggles. Far from
depriving people of choice, this measure will ensure coverage.
"Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No
'judicial review' is permitted against the government monopoly. Put
simply, private insurers will be crushed."
TRUTH: This section describes rate-setting under the public health
insurance plan option, which will compete with private insurers, who
can set their own rates. Because of inherent advantages like their
established administrative and provider frameworks, private insurance
companies will not be "crushed" by government competition.
"Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages."
TRUTH: The government will negotiate rates with providers under the
public health insurance plan option. However, private insurers will
continue to pay their own rates.
"Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-
run public plan. No alternatives."
TRUTH: This is simply not true. Employers with more than 20 employees
aren't even eligible to participate in the exchange, let alone the
public plan, until several years after the exchange launches in 2013.
Moreover, no employer will be forced to participate in the public
plan.
"Page 146: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees
AND their families."
TRUTH: Employers are required to pay some benefits for part-time
employees on a basis proportional to what they pay for full-time
employees. No language on this page or the next stipulates coverage
for the families of part-time employees.
"Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not
offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll"
TRUTH: The payroll penalty applies to employers with payroll over
$500,000 who do not provide insurance to their employees. The
percentage for employers with payroll from $500,000 - $750,000 is 6%.
Employers do not have to offer the public option to avoid this
penalty, they can offer private insurance if they wish.
"Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does
not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll"
TRUTH: This is false, see above.
"Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare
(according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income."
TRUTH: Pages 167-173 detail what "acceptable health care" means
(basically, insurance coverage) and also allow for many different
kinds of exceptions to this rule.
"Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes
(Americans will pay for them)."
TRUTH: Non-resident aliens do not have to pay the penalty for not
having health insurance, nor will the receive federal assistance,
because they are not required to purchase health insurance. They are
not exempted from individual taxes generally.
"Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy
will have access to ALL American financial and personal records."
TRUTH: This is a gross overstatement. For the purposes of determining
affordability credits for Americans who need financial assistance in
purchasing health insurance, employees of the Health Choices
Administration will have access to tax information that the federal
government already keeps. As is clearly stated on page 196, "Return
information... may be used by officers and employees of the Health
Choices Administration or such State-based health insurance exchange,
as the case may be, only for the purposes of, and to the extent
necessary in, establishing and verifying the appropriate amount of any
affordability credit described in subtitle C of title II of the
America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 and providing for the
repayment of any such credit which was in excess of such appropriate
amount.''
"Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as
tax." Yes, it really says that."
TRUTH: This quote is taken out of context, and is in fact referring to
a calculation used in the bill. Full context of quote: "'(4) NOT
TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES.-The tax
imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this
chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under
this chapter or for purposes of section 55.''
"Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors
and the poor most affected."
TRUTH: This section has nothing whatsoever to do with reducing
services. It makes much needed changes to the way in which physician
reimbursement is recalculated every year. The bill will, in fact,
create much more opportunity for seniors and the poor to receive
necessary care.
"Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be
paid the same (thanks, AMA!)"
TRUTH: Page 241 does not say this. Nowhere does it say this. It
does say that physicians will be grouped into certain categories
regardless of specialty. These categories merely determine if the
physician is engaged in primarily therapeutic or preventative care.
"Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional
judgment, etc."
TRUTH: There is no good response to this assertion as it appears to
have been made up completely. The section deals with 'misvalued codes'
meaning that the government is potentially not paying an acceptable
rate for a specific service. This will allow the government to, for
example, pay more for services that require more payment, such as high-
overhead procedures. The author of these criticisms separately
attacks the bill for paying the same rate to all doctors, then attacks
again for paying different rates.
"Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private
healthcare industries."
TRUTH: This section amends the Social Security Act to include
productivity measures. There is no mandate or control of anything.
This merely updates the way in which doctors and hospitals are paid
through Medicare.
"Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven
wheelchairs."
TRUTH: This is simply not true. This slightly amends existing
guidelines for payments for medical equipment, in this case power-
driven wheelchairs. This section introduces no 'regulations' that are
not in the Social Security Act.
"Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of
rationing!"
TRUTH: Overusage of the hot-button word "rationing" is a way to
deflect attention away from the actual language of the bill and incite
unjustified fear. This section only compares costs incurred by cancer
hospitals to costs incurred by similar hospitals, and adjusts payments
to reduce the possibility of fraud and abuse.
"Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems
preventable re-admissions."
TRUTH: This is almost correct. The section is one of the first
efforts at targeting excessive readmissions. Excessive readmissions
are physically and emotionally damaging to patients, while
simultaneously putting them, and the health care system, in far more
financial risk than is necessary. The American Hospital Association
recommended reduced payments for avoidable readmission in testimony to
Congress.
"Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission
that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the
government."
TRUTH: This is patently false. The section is about possible methods
that the Secretary of Health and Human services might consider in
order to address the growing problem of patient readmission. This
section does not, in any way, create a penalty, nor does it even
mandate policy. It merely provides examples of recourses that might
be considered.
"Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing
in healthcare companies!"
TRUTH: This provision only limits Doctor's investments in health care
facilities that they refer patients to The effort to limit self-
referral has been ongoing for many years as an effort to reduce fraud
and abuse. This is, essentially, the medical community equivalent of
insider trading. Limiting this incentive works to put the patient's
health above all other considerations. Doctors remain free to engage
in investment opportunities in areas that don't create a significant
conflict of interest.
"Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand
without government approval."
TRUTH: This section regulates physicians' investment in hospitals to
make sure that physicians are not unfairly benefiting from their power
to refer patients to hospitals they have a stake in. The section does
not prohibit hospital expansion.
"Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on 'community' input: in other
words, yet another payoff for ACORN."
TRUTH: In the ongoing effort to demonize community-based groups such
as ACORN, every instance of the word "community" has become associated
with that group's efforts. In reality, this provision allows for
anyone to provide input. This includes homeowners, religious leaders,
neighborhood groups, and others. There are no payoffs. There is no
money exchanged in any way.
"Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based
measures: i.e., rationing."
TRUTH: This provision is included in order to allow the government to
base payments on practices that work. Nowhere does it say health care
will be rationed. The attempt to isolate what works and what does not
work in Medicare Advantage plans only benefits the health care system
in general.
"Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage
Plans, HMOs, etc."
TRUTH: The government can disqualify some Medicare Advantage Plans
from receiving some additional payments, but only if those plans are
not meeting necessary requirements.
"Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS
individuals."
TRUTH: This section only deals with how to handle special needs
individuals who need to enroll outside of the open enrollment period.
Almost every type of plan operates with open enrollment periods. This
section does not create more restrictions.
"Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare
by phone)."
TRUTH: This section merely expands existing Telehealth programs,
which supplement but do not replace other health coverage, and provide
a vital resource to Americans in rural and remote areas.
"Page 425-430: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior
Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?; Government will instruct and
consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc.
Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time; Government
provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death;
Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment;
government dictates how your life ends; Advance Care Planning Consult
will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates.
This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the
GOVERNMENT; Government will decide what level of treatments you may
have at end-of-life."
TRUTH: All of these hysterical claims have been debunked elsewhere.
HR3200 provides for the reimbursement of a voluntary session of end-of-
life counseling with your physician once every five years. This in no
way means the government will make decisions for patients or encourage
doctor-assisted suicide. Counseling simply makes patients and their
families aware of their options.
"Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for
ACORN."
TRUTH: ACORN is not a Community-Based Medical Home.
"Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for
ACORN."
TRUTH: This is clearly still referring to community health groups, not
ACORN.
"Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy.
Government intervenes in your marriage."
TRUTH: Covering marriage and family therapy, as many private insurance
plans do, does not mean that the government "intervenes in your
marriage." The types of individuals who are recognized as therapists
are clearly defined on page 491; in brief, professionals only, not
bureaucrats.
"Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining,
creating and rationing those services."
TRUTH: This section expands government coverage for mental health
services under various government programs, and ensures that all
mental health services will be offered by qualified professionals.
On Jul 28, 1:38 pm, "Dionysus" <no.surren...@never.net> wrote:
> FROM FREE REPUBLIC
>
> HEAD: HEALTHCARE
>
> I got this e-mail today from a friend who got it by way of "Forward".
>
> Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis.
>
> See what you think of his letter.
>
> Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it
> around to our other representatives.
>
> Stephen Fraser
>
> July 23, 2009
>
> Senator Bayh,
>
> As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill
> before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the
> brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician
> relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration
> patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a
> healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees
> that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently
> making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.
[text of letter deleted for space]
Lamont Cranston
> The contents of the message I am replying to are patently
> false. If
> the anonymous writer of this email had actually read the
> bill, he or
> she would know better.
He doesn't read anything.
Thanks for the facts.
swiggy
"Stephen" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:db4f62fc-1a8d-4c2b...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
-------------------------------------------
Thanks for bringing the facts of the bill into light. Too many people either have
investments in the insurance companies, investments in the medical community, or
are just plain stupid. I use opencongress a lot and will take a long look at the
bill because too many uninformed people couldn't even say who the sponsors of it
are.
Michael Sabot
I will take just your first statement on Page 22 where you say this is
not an audit as the Doctor says.
The exact text on that page is: line 9 sub section C
"9 (C) The financial solvency and capital reserve levels of employers
that self-insure by employer size."
In order to report this and determin capital reserve levels, you must
know all assets and libilities to determine capital reserve
requirements. The only way to due this is with an audit. They do it
with banks all the time.
The Doctor was correct in his statement.
Lamont Cranston
> And you Sir are wrong in your statements and the Doctor
> is correct.
> I will take just your first statement on Page 22 where you
> say this is
> not an audit as the Doctor says.
>
> The exact text on that page is: line 9 sub section C
>
> "9 (C) The financial solvency and capital reserve levels
> of employers
> that self-insure by employer size."
>
> In order to report this and determin capital reserve
> levels, you must
> know all assets and libilities to determine capital
> reserve
> requirements. The only way to due this is with an audit.
> They do it
> with banks all the time.
Wrong. A simple balance sheet provides the same
information.
>
> The Doctor was correct in his statement.
He was not.
Michael Coburn
> And you Sir are wrong in your statements and the Doctor is correct. I
> will take just your first statement on Page 22 where you say this is not
> an audit as the Doctor says.
Fortunately, we have access to the bill. But those who wish to discuss
the bill should refer to section and paragraph. The use of page numbers
is inappropriate because the pagination of HTML is not terribly obvious.
I assume that the use of the page numbers are really only a subterfuge; a
way of claiming a knowledge of reference without actually providing it.
This is typical of rightarded liars. The reality is never to be
acknowledged. All that is important is the belief sacred belief of the
rightarded that government and people in general or evil.
--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
Lamont Cranston
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:37:22 -0700, Michael Sabot wrote:
>
>> And you Sir are wrong in your statements and the Doctor
>> is correct.
>> I will take just your first statement on Page 22 where
>> you say this
>> is not an audit as the Doctor says.
>
> Fortunately, we have access to the bill. But those who
> wish to
> discuss the bill should refer to section and paragraph.
> The use of
> page numbers is inappropriate because the pagination of
> HTML is not
> terribly obvious.
The bill is in PDF format.
Mike Sabot
wrote:
All pages are marked and lined, I referred to the page in the PDF file
and the line number.
And I repeat
To determine solvency and capital reserve levels requires one to know
all the assets, liabilities, cash on hand, and expected liabilities
and then calculate the required reserve to cover the expected
liabilities plus an amount to cover worst case scenario.
Banks have this done all the time, they just did it for the TARP
funds. And it’s called an audit. I believe the doctor was correct
in his statement. If a company must provide it's balance sheet, plus
expected liabilities plus someone determining worst case scenario.
This is audit.
Mike Sabot
Per Wikipedia see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audit for the def.
I do believe that this fits bill
swiggy
news:5700fa29-4b06-4f5e...@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
And I repeat
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps, due to business practices of many businesses, large and small, taking
advantage of loopholes and "good old boy" networks (think Bernie Madoff) the
businesses should be audited.
Look at where you money went in the last couple of years.
SWIGGY
Mike Sabot
It went where all money spent the Government goes, down the drain.
Mason C
>
>It went where all money spent the Government goes, down the drain.
Fortunately this brain disease is not infectious, except possibly its Alabama
version which seem have spread over much of the South, up to Kansas.
Calling it "ignoranceitis" doesn't do it justice. Can you suggest a name?
( "Republican" exaggerates it. )
Day Brown
denial. Not that the Blue states are not pretty bad off also. But in the
South, if a kid does not get a sugar cereal for breakfast, its corn
grits. In the North, if its not sugar cereal, its oatmeal.
Now, the way agribusiness grows maize, it has none of the trace minerals
left, they were leached out of the soil long ago, which has only been
dosed with Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potash. [that's a period] But maize
does have traces of petrochemicals, which unfortunately, in the absence
of trace minerals especially, get taken up by the neurotransmitters
trying to lay down new neural pathways during learning in childhood
mental development. Organo phosphates result in the pathways either not
being laid down at all, or in the wrong place.
But oats, which is grown all the way up to the Yukon, the cold winters
kill a lotta the bugs, the crop does not require the same high levels of
fertilizers, and the small grains resist drought by sending down deeper
roots. Which still bring up trace minerals. Besides which, the quality
and amount of protein in oats is at least a few times better than maize.
I was born on a MN farm in 1939; we grew a lotta both corn and oats. We
fed the horses oats cause we wanted strong smart horses, and we fed the
pigs corn cause we wanted lotsa bacon, and nobody wants a smart pig.
If what I wanted was stupid kids, I'd raise them on soulfood. The sugar
cereals, junkfood and soda are just as bad. Look up the effects of high
fructose corn syrup, which is ubiquitous in all of that, for a clue.
Its worth noting, that the boomers were the last generation to be raised
on food grown on family farms by what we now call 'organic' methods.
Boomer parents have thrown lotsa money at the schools, followed the
advice of innumerable social gurus and wondered why nothing worked. You
wont read about it in the news, much less hear about it on Faux news
because of the devastating impact it would have on ad revenue from the
vendor of all this shit that is poisoning the minds of children.
Its also why so many here cant compose a rational paragraph, and must
rely on lame one liners, flaming, or clipping bullshit.
DgsWilson
It went where all money spent the Government goes, down the drain.
interest on the national debt.
I can't imagine anybody reading that bill. I'm not reading it. I
looked at it and could find only sections (maybe pdf is different) - I
really don't care what's in it. Nothing that comes from congress is
going to be the best idea. Doesn't matter whose team colors you where.
The U.S. corporate/military/govt./banking complex has lost it's
collective mind and works only to seize the remaining resources around
the globe. No good policies will come out of that ideal. Period.
My view, where our government is concerned, will always be - don't do
anything - then we replace it - with individuals, chosen by the
people, from the people. www.dgswilson.com
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
> FROM FREE REPUBLIC
>
> HEAD: HEALTHCARE
>
> I got this e-mail today from a friend who got it by way of "Forward".
>
> Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis.
>
> See what you think of his letter.
>
> Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it
> around to our other representatives.
>
> Stephen Fraser
>
> July 23, 2009
>
> Senator Bayh,
>
> As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill
> before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the
> brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician
> relationship.
So he's telling us that under our current system there is no one
inserting themselves into the doctor-patient relationship?
When you go to your doctor and he orders anything other than simple
tests, he must wait for approval from your insurance company.
Do you believe that your doctor calls another doc at the insurance
company and they consult about your case? If you believe that, I have
some oceanfront property in Arizona you'd be interested in.
Here's what happens:
-- One of the secretaries in your doc's office calls or fills out an
online form and sends it to your insurance company.
-- At the insurance company, a CLERK takes the info and runs a cost-
benefit analysis -- a computer application that figures how much you
have paid them, how much they have paid out for you, and what your
impact is on their profits.
-- If it's PROFITABLE, they approve the procedure. If it's NOT
PROFITABLE, you are refused.
Health care ALREADY IS RATIONED, fool -- but the rationing is done on
the basis of profits and how paying for your care will affect the
company's bottom line and the CEO's bonus.
The guvmint-run system will be based on effectiveness of treatment as
determined by experience with patients.