EBONICS - LATEST DIRTY TRICK ON BLACK PEOPLE
BobJ.
The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
Language as an official language for students in the public school
system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
of proper EBONICS:
a. She ain't got no class. - This is a proper sentence in Ebonics.
b. I axed** you a question. - Another example
**guessing at the Ebonics spelling for the English word "ask".
c. Dat Tosha coat. - No Tosha is not a coat, nor did someone name a
jacket Tosha, she owns the one referred to in this Ebonics sentence.
The term EBONICS is a combination of the words EBONY and PHONICS and
the program is intended to raise the self-esteem of the students in
Oakland. This was in response to chronically low test scores on
reading and math skills.
News footage showed classrooms and teachers in full native African
dress, this was the result of the last program to raise self-esteem.
They thought if the surroundings were more like those in Africa the
kids would do better, they were wrong. Since kids in Africa don't
seem to be known for their academic prowess I am surprised this is the
mark we are shooting for?
We had EBONIC's when I was a kid, my dad called it gutter talk, we
called it street talk, and the teachers didn't care what it was
called, they corrected it with a passion. In Oakland a teacher may no
longer correct a kids English, they may axed them to "code-switch" to
regular English so that they may be understood.
Hey here's a novel idea, get rid of all the loser administrators, hire
some real teachers and really give the kids an education. Passing
tests will raise their self esteem more then having a teacher ignore
improper english.
I think this is just another dirty trick by the liberal-elite to
perpetuate black illiteracy in a truly systematic way. How can anyone
think that this won't harm these kids? The answer is they can't, this
means that this is intentional.
The Feds and State have both said that they don't recognize Ebonics
for purposes of multi-lingual funding, what Oakland administrators
have applied for. Oakland officials said that they will have to divert
funds from other classes to fund the program.
Another problem cropped up, it turns out you can't give a test on
Ebonics, it has not been defined, no rules set for syntax or grammar.
It is hard to say if someone is speaking proper Ebonics or not.
Written Ebonics is even more difficult to deal with, apparently there
are no text books yet published in Ebonics, at least not
intentionally.
The real shame is that these kids already have enough things to deal
with, broken homes, drugs, poverty, and violence, now the educators
are throwing in the towel. A good education is the ONLY chance of the
kids escaping from these conditions.
BobJ.
Terry C. Shannon
b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>
>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>of proper EBONICS:
>
>a. She ain't got no class. - This is a proper sentence in Ebonics.
>
>b. I axed** you a question. - Another example
> **guessing at the Ebonics spelling for the English word "ask".
>
>c. Dat Tosha coat. - No Tosha is not a coat, nor did someone name a
>jacket Tosha, she owns the one referred to in this Ebonics sentence.
>
>The term EBONICS is a combination of the words EBONY and PHONICS and
>the program is intended to raise the self-esteem of the students in
>Oakland. This was in response to chronically low test scores on
>reading and math skills.
>
>News footage showed classrooms and teachers in full native African
>dress, this was the result of the last program to raise self-esteem.
>They thought if the surroundings were more like those in Africa the
>kids would do better, they were wrong. Since kids in Africa don't
>seem to be known for their academic prowess I am surprised this is the
>mark we are shooting for?
>
Tell me you are joking. Please!
Sam A. Kersh
b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>
>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>.......deletions..............................
>..............n the towel. A good education is the ONLY chance of the
>kids escaping from these conditions.
>
>BobJ.
>
>
More proof that the "liberal" esablishment thinks blacks and other
minorities are too stupid to learn.... (or work)---
God save us from "do-gooders."
Sam A. Kersh
sa...@i-link.net
NRA Life Member
TSRA, JPFO
===============================================================
To hell with the "big stick," carry a Colt.
Me
Matt Fuller
"Terry C. Shannon" <sha...@world.std.com> wrote:
>b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>>
>>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>>of proper EBONICS:
>>
>
>Tell me you are joking. Please!
>
>
No, it's true!
sig_...@aur.alcatel.com
In article <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net>,
BobJ. <b...@ezon.com> wrote:
>
>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>of proper EBONICS:
>
>
>We had EBONIC's when I was a kid, my dad called it gutter talk, we
>called it street talk, and the teachers didn't care what it was
>called, they corrected it with a passion. In Oakland a teacher may no
>longer correct a kids English, they may axed them to "code-switch" to
>regular English so that they may be understood.
>
>
>I think this is just another dirty trick by the liberal-elite to
>perpetuate black illiteracy in a truly systematic way. How can anyone
>think that this won't harm these kids? The answer is they can't, this
>means that this is intentional.
>
[ Further nonsense deleted ]
>
>BobJ.
>
>
>
When I was a kid and someone told an untruth, either by commision
or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
-------- Snip -----------
From Correspondent Don Knapp
OAKLAND, California (CNN) -- The school
board for the Oakland school system
Wednesday night voted unanimously to
recognize Black English, or "Ebonics," as a
second language, and the primary language of
its African-American students.
It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal funds for
bilingual education.
The move means that teachers will be trained to recognize when students are
using Black English, and will translate it into standard English, like they do with
Hispanic students or others for whom English is a second language.
"If that is the only way to receive funds to
get the necessary tools for our children to
learn standard English," parent Dale
Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
"My key concern is I want my child to learn
standard English and whatever it takes to
do that, we have to, I guess, play the game
with them."
-------- Snip ------
The whole point of the "Ebonics" training is to teach kids
standard English, a fact you conveniently forgot to add to your
post. I say, let's see if it works. Clearly, what is happening
now is NOT working.
John...
--
John McLendon - V:919.850.5367 F:919.850.6670
Alcatel Network Systems mclejc@
2912 Wake Forest Rd. Raleigh, NC 27609 aur.alcatel.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold Brashears
sig_...@aur.alcatel.com wrote:
>In article <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net>,
>BobJ. <b...@ezon.com> wrote:
>>
>>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>>of proper EBONICS:
[edited]
>When I was a kid and someone told an untruth, either by commision
>or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
Unfortunately, or not, you never pointed out the lie you said he
committed.
>-------- Snip -----------
>
>From Correspondent Don Knapp
>
>OAKLAND, California (CNN) -- The school
>board for the Oakland school system
>Wednesday night voted unanimously to
>recognize Black English, or "Ebonics," as a
>second language, and the primary language of
>its African-American students.
>
>It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal funds for
>bilingual education.
This is the obvious "nut" of it right here. I saw the story, and it
is pretty clear that the board is trying to get additional funds from
either the state or federal government, by claiming these are
bilingual kids.
>The move means that teachers will be trained to recognize when students are
>using Black English, and will translate it into standard English, like they do with
>Hispanic students or others for whom English is a second language.
Unfortunately, ESL is a miserable failure, from the accounts I have
seen. It is supposed to last only a few years, but many kids seem to
have problems getting out. In addition, kids who do not even speak
Spanish are sometimes put into ESL, simply because they have Hispanic
surnames.
> "If that is the only way to receive funds to
> get the necessary tools for our children to
> learn standard English," parent Dale
> Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
> "My key concern is I want my child to learn
> standard English and whatever it takes to
> do that, we have to, I guess, play the game
> with them."
Interestingly enough, they also had the superintendent on the report
aired over NBC this morning. The superintendent did not support the
vote by the board.
>-------- Snip ------
>
>The whole point of the "Ebonics" training is to teach kids
>standard English, a fact you conveniently forgot to add to your
>post. I say, let's see if it works. Clearly, what is happening
>now is NOT working.
I say, you pay for it if you think it will work. Wonderful how you,
in North Carolina, want the people in California to pay for something
simply so that you can "see if it will work"!
The reason kids all over California rank at the bottom of reading, not
just Black kids, is because the California schools trotted off on a
ten year experiment in "whole learning", which encourages kids to
guess at words meanings and spellings! All, no doubt "to see if it
will work"!
>John McLendon - V:919.850.5367 F:919.850.6670
>Alcatel Network Systems mclejc@
>2912 Wake Forest Rd. Raleigh, NC 27609 aur.alcatel.com
Regards, Harold
----
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachments
by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding."
---Louis Brandeis, US Supreme Court Justice, 1916 - 1939.
richard stout
> >>
> >>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
> >>Language as an official language for students in the public school
> >>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
> >>of proper EBONICS:
> >>
> >
> >Tell me you are joking. Please!
> >
> >
>
> No, it's true!
Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
Todd Evans
> In article <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net>,
> BobJ. <b...@ezon.com> wrote:
> >
> >The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
> >Language as an official language for students in the public school
> >system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
> >of proper EBONICS:
> >
> [ Nonsense deleted ]
> >
> >We had EBONIC's when I was a kid, my dad called it gutter talk, we
> >called it street talk, and the teachers didn't care what it was
> >called, they corrected it with a passion. In Oakland a teacher may no
> >longer correct a kids English, they may axed them to "code-switch" to
> >regular English so that they may be understood.
> >
> [ More nonsense deleted ]
> >
> >I think this is just another dirty trick by the liberal-elite to
> >perpetuate black illiteracy in a truly systematic way. How can anyone
> >think that this won't harm these kids? The answer is they can't, this
> >means that this is intentional.
> >
>
> [ Further nonsense deleted ]
>
> >
> >BobJ.
> >
> >
> >
>
> When I was a kid and someone told an untruth, either by commision
> or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
>
> -------- Snip -----------
>
> From Correspondent Don Knapp
>
> OAKLAND, California (CNN) -- The school
> board for the Oakland school system
> Wednesday night voted unanimously to
> recognize Black English, or "Ebonics," as a
> second language, and the primary language of
> its African-American students.
>
> It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal
funds for
> bilingual education.
>
> The move means that teachers will be trained to recognize when students are
> using Black English, and will translate it into standard English, like
they do with
> Hispanic students or others for whom English is a second language.
>
> "If that is the only way to receive funds to
> get the necessary tools for our children to
> learn standard English," parent Dale
> Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
> "My key concern is I want my child to learn
> standard English and whatever it takes to
> do that, we have to, I guess, play the game
> with them."
>
> -------- Snip ------
>
> The whole point of the "Ebonics" training is to teach kids
> standard English, a fact you conveniently forgot to add to your
> post. I say, let's see if it works. Clearly, what is happening
> now is NOT working.
>
> John...
>
>
> --
> John McLendon - V:919.850.5367 F:919.850.6670
> Alcatel Network Systems mclejc@
> 2912 Wake Forest Rd. Raleigh, NC 27609 aur.alcatel.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
What the HECK is Ebonics!!? Show me the Ebonics dictionary! How can a
teacher tell if a child is speaking in Ebonics or if they're just using
gutter talk? Will the teachers correct the children's poor Ebonics!?
Recognizing poor grammar as anything other than poor grammar can only
further degrade the awful situation our schools are in. Between
television and the idiocy and ignorance going on in our schools we are
raising generation after generation of more and more ignorant children who
feel good about themselves but can barely read or do simple math.
If this trend (the dumbing down of America's children) was accidental you
would think that occasionally their would occur some error in favor of
reason.
Todd Evans
tev...@primenet.com
See www.jbs.org now!
Jym Dyer
=o= Fascinating as this subject is, it shouldn't be posted
to talk.environment or talk.politics.guns. Please keep
followups on-topic, and not cross-posted to talk.environment
or talk.politics.guns.
<_Jym_>
BobJ.
>Tell me you are joking. Please!
I wish I could Terry, unfortunately it's not a joke, it's reality in
the 90's. None of the network news programs showed anyone disputing
it, just administrators lamenting on how good it will be.
The independent TV news stations interviewed parents and could not
find a single parent that thought it was a good idea, and not a single
black student that had ever heard of Ebonics.
Several folks interviewed said that they had to put their kids in
private schools because of all the "nonesense" the Oakland schools
teach. They said they want their children to have a chance in America
and that the Oakland school system was not getting the job done.
BobJ.
Chuck Hensey
Sam A. Kersh wrote:
> More proof that the "liberal" esablishment thinks blacks and other
> minorities are too stupid to learn.... (or work)---
Sam
As an educator in North Carolina, I find it simply _fascinating_ that
you are blaming so called Liberals for the idea of Ebonics, since no one
that I know, Liberal, Conservative, or otherwise thinks this is a good
idea. Why don't you show some proof that these horrible "Liberals" are
behind this idea as opposed to some local, African-American groups in
the Oakland area. Or are you showing off some more "Limbaughesk"
reasoning? (Hint, I'm not a liberal, but I'm tired of people who call
all educators who try something new "Liberals" when something is
suggested that they don't like!)
C. Hensey
Eric Williams
In a previous post, sig_...@aur.alcatel.com wrote:
: -------- Snip -----------
: From Correspondent Don Knapp
: -------- Snip ------
Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
classroom scores, I think the proposal has two goals:
To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
average a 1.9 GPA.)
To suck as much money from the government teat as possible by
claiming a need for yet another costly special education and
teacher training program where no need existed before.
--
Eric Williams | wd6...@netcom.com | WD6CMU@WD6CMU.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM
Dost Thou know that the ages will pass, and humanity will proclaim by
the lips of their sages that there is no crime, and therefore no sin;
there is only hunger? In the end they will lay their freedom at our
feet, and say to us, "Make us your slaves, but feed us!" They will
understand themselves at last, that freedom and bread enough for all
are inconceivable together.
-- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov
Joe Long
sig_...@aur.alcatel.com wrote:
>When I was a kid and someone told an untruth, either by commision
>or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
<snip>
>It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal funds for
>bilingual education.
<snip>
> "If that is the only way to receive funds to
> get the necessary tools for our children to
> learn standard English," parent Dale
> Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
Yeah, there's the reality, all right. Another scam to get somebody else
to pay for their overpriced school bureaucracy. And, once again, it's
the students who get shafted ("Ebonics" indeed. Will the math teacher
say, when a kid writes 2 + 2 = 5, "That's OK, son, if you believe it's
five, why then it's five."?).
--
Steve Brinich
[Followups trimmed]
> OAKLAND, California (CNN) -- The school
> board for the Oakland school system
> Wednesday night voted unanimously to
> recognize Black English, or "Ebonics," as a
> second language, and the primary language of
> its African-American students.
>
> It's expected that the school district will now seek
> state and federal funds for bilingual education.
Imagine my surprise.
If they needed money, they should have tried a more respectable
fundraising technique, such as posting "MAKE MONEY FAST".
--
Steve Brinich ste...@access.digex.net If the government wants us
PGP:89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E to respect the law
http://www.access.digex.net/~steve-b it should set a better example
ebonicman
In article <tevans-2012...@news.primenet.com>, tev...@primenet.com
says...
>
>What the HECK is Ebonics!!? Show me the Ebonics dictionary! How can a
>teacher tell if a child is speaking in Ebonics or if they're just using
>gutter talk? Will the teachers correct the children's poor Ebonics!?
>
>Recognizing poor grammar as anything other than poor grammar can only
>further degrade the awful situation our schools are in. Between
>television and the idiocy and ignorance going on in our schools we are
>raising generation after generation of more and more ignorant children who
>feel good about themselves but can barely read or do simple math.
>
>If this trend (the dumbing down of America's children) was accidental you
>would think that occasionally their would occur some error in favor of
>reason.
>
While this is clearly a serious issue...
{
Heard a there's a new learning program coming out
called 'Hooked on Ebonics'. This should do the job.
Next we'll see someone pushing for Natl Ebonics Day
and then the launch of the 'Ebonics News Network'.
}
Ebonicman
ebonicman
J. Lewin
b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>BobJ.
Hi guys,
If you Black Folk think that you are on the short end, you should come
in and see what whitie does to whitie. Ever heard of the thief that
lives and breathes and talks in your head from 3,000 miles away? Have
any Blacks ever got together and taken another Black, while he is
sleeping? White man has done that to white man here in America.
Be kewl, brothers.
Jeff Blunt
Todd Evans wrote:
>
> In article <59eur6$l...@aurns1.aur.alcatel.com>, sig_...@aur.alcatel.com wrote:
>
> > In article <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net>,
> > BobJ. <b...@ezon.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
> > >Language as an official language for students in the public school
> > >system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
> > >of proper EBONICS:
> > >
> > [ Nonsense deleted ]
> > >
> > >We had EBONIC's when I was a kid, my dad called it gutter talk, we
> > >called it street talk, and the teachers didn't care what it was
> > >called, they corrected it with a passion. In Oakland a teacher may no
> > >longer correct a kids English, they may axed them to "code-switch" to
> > >regular English so that they may be understood.
> > >
> > [ More nonsense deleted ]
> > >
> > >I think this is just another dirty trick by the liberal-elite to
> > >perpetuate black illiteracy in a truly systematic way. How can anyone
> > >think that this won't harm these kids? The answer is they can't, this
> > >means that this is intentional.
> > >
> >
> > [ Further nonsense deleted ]
> >
> > >
> > >BobJ.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
> >
> >
> > From Correspondent Don Knapp
> >
> > board for the Oakland school system
> > Wednesday night voted unanimously to
> > recognize Black English, or "Ebonics," as a
> > second language, and the primary language of
> > its African-American students.
> >
> > It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal
> funds for
> > bilingual education.
> >
> > using Black English, and will translate it into standard English, like
> they do with
> > Hispanic students or others for whom English is a second language.
> >
> > get the necessary tools for our children to
> > learn standard English," parent Dale
> > Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
> > do that, we have to, I guess, play the game
> > with them."
> >
> > -------- Snip ------
> >
> > The whole point of the "Ebonics" training is to teach kids
> > standard English, a fact you conveniently forgot to add to your
> > post. I say, let's see if it works. Clearly, what is happening
> > now is NOT working.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > John McLendon - V:919.850.5367 F:919.850.6670
> > Alcatel Network Systems mclejc@
> > 2912 Wake Forest Rd. Raleigh, NC 27609 aur.alcatel.com
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> teacher tell if a child is speaking in Ebonics or if they're just using
> gutter talk? Will the teachers correct the children's poor Ebonics!?
>
> Recognizing poor grammar as anything other than poor grammar can only
> further degrade the awful situation our schools are in. Between
> television and the idiocy and ignorance going on in our schools we are
> raising generation after generation of more and more ignorant children who
> feel good about themselves but can barely read or do simple math.
>
> If this trend (the dumbing down of America's children) was accidental you
> would think that occasionally their would occur some error in favor of
> reason.
>
Hey, this could be a bonus for white students. If schools and
universities start giving course credit for non-native "Ebonics"
speakers, a lot of white kids could get an easy "A". How tough can it be
to go from English to "Ebonics"? I think most of us could say "axed"
instead of "asked".
Chuck Prime
,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
m
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.mis
:
c,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journali
sm
References: <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net> <59eur6$l...@aurns1.aur.alcatel.com> <tevans-2012...@news.primenet.com>
Distribution: world
Todd Evans (tev...@primenet.com) wrote:
:
: television and the idiocy and ignorance going on in our schools we are
: raising generation after generation of more and more ignorant children who
: feel good about themselves but can barely read or do simple math.
People who "feel good about themselves," i.e.: who have genuine
self-esteem, do not take drugs. They do not join gangs. They do not
identify themselves with racial collectives. They do not murder each
other over fashion disputes. And they do not whimper that such actions
are justified because "you don't understand me."
: If this trend (the dumbing down of America's children) was accidental you
: would think that occasionally their would occur some error in favor of
: reason.
We have a 'bingo.'
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BobJ.
On 20 Dec 1996 21:01:26 GMT, sig_...@aur.alcatel.com wrote:
>In article <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net>,
>BobJ. <b...@ezon.com> wrote:
>[ Nonsense deleted ]
>[ More nonsense deleted ]
>[ Further nonsense deleted ]
>>
>>BobJ.
>>
>When I was a kid and someone told an untruth, either by commision
>or ommision, we called it a lie. Here's the reality!
You have failed to identify any lies, the goal of the program is not
to teach English, that is a side effect, the goal is to raise the
self-esteem of the children in hopes that it raises their desire to
learn English and other subjects. A bunch of liberal bs.
>
>It's expected that the school district will now seek state and federal funds for
>bilingual education.
ahhhh, here is the real meat on this one....
>
>The move means that teachers will be trained to recognize when students are
>using Black English, and will translate it into standard English, like they do with
>Hispanic students or others for whom English is a second language.
Most teachers are already trained to translate street talk to English,
the objective is to position the student so that the rest of the world
does not have to spend a lifetime trying to translate. The only job
Ebonics will qualify you for is a Job in the Oakland school district
or one at an establishment with pictures on the cash register. Can you
say "Would you like fries with your order?", in Ebonics? This is
likely to be the career for a Ebonics expert.
>
> "If that is the only way to receive funds to
> get the necessary tools for our children to
> learn standard English," parent Dale
> Spencer said, she is in favor of the vote.
> "My key concern is I want my child to learn
> standard English and whatever it takes to
> do that, we have to, I guess, play the game
> with them."
>
So you admit it is a fraud, and you condone these people getting
federal funding based on fraudulent reasons? Let me axed you this, why
do you think administrators that would lie to the federal government
for funding, would use the funding as intended?
We spent millions on converting the classrooms to an African motif a
few years ago in Oakland, with the same goal in mind as Ebonics, to
raise self esteem. It did not work and things got worse.
I found it interesting that this was one of the paragraphs you decided
to chop as "deleted nonesense" :
>> "Hey here's a novel idea, get rid of all the loser administrators,
>> hire some real teachers and really give the kids an education.
>> Passing tests will raise their self esteem more then having a
>> teacher ignore improper english."
This is what several pilots have done, including a very successful
program in Detroit. They went back to basics, no African garb and no
Ebonics. These programs improved test scores within a single year. The
trick?
1. Hire good teachers and protect them.
2. Streamline administrators to an absolute minimum.
3. Sit administrators in the schools they administer.
4. Get the community involved, tell parents what the plan is.
5. Set firm, measurable goals, make sure the kids understand them.
6. Employ tough love on campus, but deal with the added emotional
problems these kids are likely to have.
7. Keep the class size manageable for the type of kids you have.
8. Provide safe, clean, and proctored study hall rooms after hours and
on weekends. Keeping in mind that many kids don't have a suitable
study area at home.
9. Allow no feel-good, do-gooder liberals on your campus to help you
out, stick to the program.
10. Flunk students that fail. I know that this sounds simple, but we
have, especially in troubled schools, stopped flunking failures. This
is a major disincentive to the other students.
>
>The whole point of the "Ebonics" training is to teach kids
>standard English, a fact you conveniently forgot to add to your
>post. I say, let's see if it works. Clearly, what is happening
>now is NOT working.
>
That is not that stated purpose of Ebonics, the stated reason is to
raise self-esteem and to de-fraud the federal and state government out
of more money.
I agree what we are doing is not working, Ebonics is not the answer
and we have the tests to prove that. English as a Second Language has
failed miserably for all other languages why should it fare any better
on improper English?
Of all the problems America's black have had to deal with, language
has never been one of them, but no, you want to heap on a "second"
language because life is just not challenging enough with drugs,
violence, broken homes, and teen pregnancy...
John, it's time to stop experimenting on these kids and educate them.
Teaching the skills necessary to be successful and competitive in
America, not Africa, and not in the getto's, but mainstream America!
BobJ.
PS. Like, too bad dude, that we didn't adopt valley speak, like when
it was totally rad. Like - DUDE, you want fries with that...and dats
da botum lyin.
David Owens
We can always count on the indigenous black American as an endless source of
amusement. Certainly any statements made by Al Sharpton or Jesse (yo momma)
Jackson, or Mike Jackson, for that matter, or any of the selected morons on
the OJ Simpson jury, or that most resounding professional Negro of all,
Johnnie Cock-ran, are endless resources.
Now, just in time for Christmas, we have black phonics. How delicious!. Yo,
mofo! Clo de do, ho!
Momma, who be my daddy?
Michael Zarlenga
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
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References: <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net> <E2q1D...@world.std.com> <59el58$k...@home.lmi.org> <32BB20...@magpage.com>
Organization: IDS World Network Internet Access Service, (401) 884-9002 GUEST [telnet ids.net]
Distribution:
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richard stout (sto...@magpage.com) wrote:
: Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
The funds aren't for poor people, they're for the fat-assed bureau-
crats in the Oakland public school district who need tune-ups on their
BMWs.
They'll get the money, no doubt, or else Jesse and Al will scream
bloody murder about how the white man is holding the black man down
and forcing him to learn "White English," and, 10 years from now,
the kids coming out of the Oakland public schools will STILL be ter-
ribly undereducated.
The winners are the bureaucrats; the losers are, as usual, the kids.
--
-- Mike Zarlenga
finger zarl...@conan.ids.net for PGP public key
(my favorite new web site : www.clark.net/silhan)
John Webster
In article <59fr0f$1...@kirin.wwa.com>,
ebon...@wuzusae.com (ebonicman) wrote:
>In article <tevans-2012...@news.primenet.com>, tev...@primenet.com
>says...
>
>>
(snip for brevity)
> Heard a there's a new learning program coming out
> called 'Hooked on Ebonics'. This should do the job.
>
> Next we'll see someone pushing for Natl Ebonics Day
>
> and then the launch of the 'Ebonics News Network'.
Now THAT would be must-see TV! Or should I say "Now that BE must-see TV!"
"Hey yo, wassup homeys? This be the news...like, you know, here whats
happenin'...some muthafuckers at the bank downtown??? They FUCKED UP some
guards and robbed the muthafuckin' place, like, you know..."
John Webster
>}
>
> Ebonicman
Stephen Lajoie
In article <E2q1D...@world.std.com>,[snip]
>Tell me you are joking. Please!
He isn't joking. It made the front page of the Seattle Post Intelligencer.
I think its funny as all hell. If I were black, I'd be screaming bloody
murder.
For years, the native africans fought against the arparthide government
for the right to speak standard english. They knew that the teaching of
the africaner language was tool of the white government to oppress them.
In quebec, the francophones are trying to get French to be the ONLY
language. And with damn good reason.
South east asian refugees in this country have taught their kids English
so well, you can't even detect an accent or flaw in grammer.
Then you look at American spanish speakers and blacks. They get
"bilingual" education. Why? It's not because the whites, in general, want
to exploit them, but because their own LEADERS want to exploit them.
People in their own community want to make them dependent upon the leaders
for legal services and all interactions with the rest of the world.
--
Steve La Joie | "I think the biggest weapon of the totalitarian state
laj...@eskimo.com | is the oppression of the individual by economic means.
| In this manner, the people are made to fall in line
| with the principles of the government" A. Einstein
Joe Long
dto...@cogent.net (David Owens) wrote:
>We can always count on the indigenous black American as an endless source of
>amusement.
<racist tripe snipped>
We can always count on some ignorant redneck to make an ass of himself.
hesp...@netcom.com
Sam A. Kersh (sa...@i-link.net) wrote:
: More proof that the "liberal" esablishment thinks blacks and other
: minorities are too stupid to learn.... (or work)---
: God save us from "do-gooders."
Well they have to feel superior to *someone*....
#%^>
E*
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
| "No hay mal que por bien no venga." -- Gloria Estefan |
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
hesp...@netcom.com
Eric Williams (wd6...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
: classroom scores, I think the proposal has two goals:
: To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
: for an abysmal education program....
: To suck as much money from the government teat as possible....
Two more nails struck squarely on the head.
Bright Blessings,
Hesperos, M.P.
-->Word Warrior<--
richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
generate productivity from oppression, eh?
Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
_____________________________________________________________________________
|Respectfully, Sheila ~~~Word Warrior~~~ gr...@pipeline.com|
|Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:|
| This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up|
| on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.|
| *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-->Word Warrior<--
wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
>classroom scores,
Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>I think the proposal has two goals:
> To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
> for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
> average a 1.9 GPA.)
How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
> To suck as much money from the government teat as possible by
> claiming a need for yet another costly special education and
> teacher training program where no need existed before.
At one time no need existed for rocket science,
and drawing the necessary from that, ain't.
What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
Nystatin
I'm not a big fan of the conservatives ... but this EBONICS stuff is the
ultimate insult to black people... it just perpetuates the stereotypes of
illiterate blacks.....
Brad McCabe
b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>of proper EBONICS:
>The real shame is that these kids already have enough things to deal
>with, broken homes, drugs, poverty, and violence, now the educators
>are throwing in the towel. A good education is the ONLY chance of the
>kids escaping from these conditions.
If I didn't know better I would think that this was a plot by some
white power group to keep blacks in "their place" by denying them a
decent education.
Pat Ryan
Wes Pruden has the solution in a recent Washington Times column-
"Everyone declare that they have some Negro blood and are considering
themselves members of the Negor race! This will solve all racial
problems in ine fell swoop!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
Spark The Heretic
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>
> wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>
> >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
> >classroom scores,
>
> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
What used to be called bad grammar is now an official "language"? I do
find that interesting. While I do not argue against diversity, can we at
least keep diversity in the bounds of logic, and away from becoming the
pet political projects of benighted liberals?
When I first heard of Ebonics, it immediately reminded me of the movie
"Airplane" where this little old lady came up to help the doctor speak
to an ailing passenger from Harlem and said "Excuse me sir, but I'm
fluent in 'Jive', maybe can I help..." Then proceeds to speak the
"language" of Jive to the sick passenger.
> >I think the proposal has two goals:
> > To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
> > for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
> > average a 1.9 GPA.)
>
> How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
>
Point taken. But is creating a new dialect of English the way to
alleviate the problems of that home life?
>
> What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
> be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
Or in improving math and science education in public schools, restoring
buildings within the inner city, or in college scholarships, or....
--
| TJ "Spark" Miller jr.
n Formerly of the 37th TFW, USAF. _\/^\/_
___[(_)]___Now residing in the heart of the Ozarks.___/[]/_\[]\___
o O o * * *
____________________________________________________
"My center gives way, my right is pushed back, situation excellent;
I am attacking." -Ferdinand Foch
____________________________________________________
"War is the realm of chance. No other human activity gives it
greater scope; no other has such incessant and varied dealings with
this intruder. Chance makes everything more uncertain and
interferes with the whole course of events"
-Karl Von Clausewitz
Steve Brinich
[Followups trimmed]
>Word Warrior wrote:
> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
"Productivity"?!?
What do you think will happen when these students show up at
job interviews speaking "Ebonics" rather than standard English?
Anonymous
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:52:16 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
)
)>Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
)
)The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
)generate productivity from oppression, eh?
)
)Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
)in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
)future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
Uh oh - the argue bot has executed its "startLongThread" function.
Notice how noone was really defending this whole Ebonics thing and
then it just happens to come along and say something like this? It
did a search of its reply database and calculated the response most
likely to start a long, tiresome thread in which it spouts off idiotic
catchphrases like "Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless."
Just ignore it people, it's clearly trolling.
Vicki D Payne
In <59hfla$5...@camel1.mindspring.com> ko...@pipeline.com (Brad McCabe)
writes:
>b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>
>
>>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>>of proper EBONICS:
>
>>The real shame is that these kids already have enough things to deal
>>with, broken homes, drugs, poverty, and violence, now the educators
>>are throwing in the towel. A good education is the ONLY chance of the
>>kids escaping from these conditions.
>
>If I didn't know better I would think that this was a plot by some
>white power group to keep blacks in "their place" by denying them a
>decent education.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
they bi-lengual? (sp)
G. Mark Stewart
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
m
References: <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net> <59eur6$l...@aurns1.aur.alcatel.com> <wd6cmuE2...@netcom.com> <59hbab$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>
Organization: Sun Valley SoftWare
Distribution:
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-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
: wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
: >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
: >classroom scores,
: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
Another bullshit generalization.
"Hey, half of the population is dead!"
"But it's VARIETY! The average person is seriously ill!"
About as simplistic a statement as "all discrimination is bad"
and "AA is discrimination, so it's bad".
I thought evolution gave us a brain big enough to handle pesky details
like these fallacies, but apparently it's given us greater powers of
rationalization and defensiveness.
Identity Withheld
So, you feel it is okay to support teaching a bastardized version of the
english language? To teach poor grammar and incorrect syntax is going to
help these people in later years?
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Sec. 227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is
subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US.
E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
-->Word Warrior<-- <gr...@pipeline.com> wrote in article
<59hba6$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>...
> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>
> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>
> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>
> Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
> in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
> future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
Michael Zarlenga
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
m
References: <32ba356...@Concord01.news.internex.net> <59eur6$l...@aurns1.aur.alcatel.com> <wd6cmuE2...@netcom.com> <59hbab$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net> <32BC47...@nwark.com>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Spark The Heretic (tjmi...@nwark.com) wrote:
: When I first heard of Ebonics, it immediately reminded me of the movie
: "Airplane" where this little old lady came up to help the doctor speak
: to an ailing passenger from Harlem and said "Excuse me sir, but I'm
: fluent in 'Jive', maybe can I help..." Then proceeds to speak the
: "language" of Jive to the sick passenger.
The little old lady was the actress who played Beaver's mom in Leave
it to Beaver. Best translation : "Sheeeeeit!" ... "Golly."
: Or in improving math and science education in public schools, restoring
: buildings within the inner city, or in college scholarships, or....
That's secondary to bureaucrats in the public school system getting
to line their pockets with more taxpayer money. That's the REAL rea-
son for this whole issue ... to get more free money from the taxp-
payers for the bureaucrats.
Joseph R. Darancette
ko...@pipeline.com (Brad McCabe) wrote:
>b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>>of proper EBONICS:
>>The real shame is that these kids already have enough things to deal
>>with, broken homes, drugs, poverty, and violence, now the educators
>>are throwing in the towel. A good education is the ONLY chance of the
>>kids escaping from these conditions.
>If I didn't know better I would think that this was a plot by some
>white power group to keep blacks in "their place" by denying them a
>decent education.
White power freaks aren't needed when you have greedy power hungry
"black leaders" who want to keep their own people down for their own
profit.
***************************************************************
Joseph R. Darancette
<dar...@primenet.com>
http://www.primenet.com/~daranc/ctci/
The year was 2081,and everybody was finally equal.They
weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal
in every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else.
Nobody was better looking anybody else. Nobody was stronger
or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to
the 211th, 212th and 213th Amendments to the Constution,
and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United
States Handicapper General.
-- Kurt Vonnegut
****************************************************************
AnonyMouse
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
We are diverse enough without language barriers.
Language can be a unifying force, adding strength to a community.
>
> >I think the proposal has two goals:
> > To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
> > for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
> > average a 1.9 GPA.)
>
> How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
A poor home life is not always a guarantee of poor grades. Many people
(notably immigrants) have come from poor families and, through
education, become successful. General failure of a whole class of people
to obtain any measureable success is a damning statement about the
entire community in which they live. The people of a community are
responsible for the type of people that live in a community. Poverty
breeds crime, but being poor is no crime.
>
> What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
> be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
Peace comes through strength, strength comes from armament.
> _____________________________________________________________________________
Eric Engelmann
AnonyMouse wrote:
> A poor home life is not always a guarantee of poor grades. Many people
> (notably immigrants) have come from poor families and, through
> education, become successful. General failure of a whole class of people
> to obtain any measureable success is a damning statement about the
> entire community in which they live. The people of a community are
> responsible for the type of people that live in a community. Poverty
> breeds crime, but being poor is no crime.
example. It would be more correct to assert that CRIME breeds POVERTY,
including both petty crime and the crimes of corrupt government.
AnonyMouse
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>
>
> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>
> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
Oppression of what? By whom? What productivity?
Reminds me that in some cultures the upper class does have their own
seperate dialects.
I can foresee that the special dialect of the upper class will not be
Ebonics.
I do see a whole class of people with even less in common with
mainstream culture than they possessed before.
Ken Wessels
In article <59hba6$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>, Shot on Site wrote:
> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>
> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>
> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>
> Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
> in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
> future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
Really, it is dishonest to act like Blacks are still officially
"oppressed". This is not true. The income level and employment level of
Blacks in general is high. The myth that the riots ocurred becasue of slum
living conditions was a convenient and long held belief.
Blacks in government and academia now talk of their own seperate
"country". The dispute is with "white America" but it is not related to a
current "oppression".
--
visit me @ http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html
AnonyMouse
> what about "Valley Girls"? do they speak a different language? are
> they bi-lengual? (sp)
>
Why yes, Vicki, they are. Now isn't that special?
I think i'll have a write-in initiative for lipstick entitlements.
AnonyMouse
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>
Personal attacks aren't facts.
We stand at the beginning of a dialectic caste system, and Sheila closes
her eye.
>
> >I can foresee that the special dialect of the upper class will not be
> >Ebonics.
>
> That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
Ebonics is oppressive. Ebonics hinders inculturation by recognizing the
validity of a poor substitute. There is no acceptable substitute for
reading and writing standard English. Ebonics is not taught in schools
now - but it may be someday, draining resources away from educating the
poor in english skills.
(Blech! Didn't ever imagine having to defend English class!)
>
> >I do see a whole class of people with even less in common with
> >mainstream culture than they possessed before.
>
> You don't see at all.
>
> We all stand to benefit when education is made available
> to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
Yes - but Ebonics is not education, Ebonics is pandering to ignorance.
How will Ebonics make contributors of the black/poor community?
I looked it up on the net - I see no substance to Ebonics.
What does Ebonics offer the black community?
AnonyMouse
Sheila wrote:
> strength comes from generosity.
>
A very nice thought, but incorrect.
Strength does not come from generosity. Personal character sponsors
generosity, which is why sheila is so confused. Often strong people are
of good character, and thus generous.
Peace comes from strength - that is the lesson of history.
Do not forget the disaster of "Appeasement" (Ref. WWII).
History is clear - if you want peace, peace comes through strength.
Sheila should read more.
AnonyMouse
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>
> Facts aren't personal attacks.
>
> Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>
>
> Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>
> Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>
> Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>
> >(Blech! Didn't ever imagine having to defend English class!)
>
> You certainly don't do that.
> Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
> Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
>
> >I looked it up on the net - I see no substance to Ebonics.
>
> Irrelevant.
>
> >What does Ebonics offer the black community?
>
> Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
Can anyone in ROM offer a reasonable explanation of what benefits might
be derived from Ebonics?
Sheila is incoherent on this subject and I am interested.
What does Ebonics do for the black community?
How will the black community benefit?
Thanks in advance,
AnonyMouse
Joan Broneske
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
> >: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
> >Another bullshit generalization.
>
> False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
> greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
Which Psychology/Sociology book did you get that one out of?
Snip, Snip,
>
> I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
> point where I understand that anything which offers new
> information and encouragement to those not normally
> finding it in schools is worth more than will be
> spent on it no matter how much that is.
And which "garden-variety reason" points out that Ebonics "offers new information and
encouragement to those not finding it in schools"? Just what kind of encouragement does
saying that blacks have a genetic reason for slaughtering the English language? Because
it gives them an excuse to talk the way they do?
Schools need to concentrate more on the basics and actually teaching children things
they need to know, instead of all this experimental socialist bullshit.
I see you are also quite free with other people's money, too.
--
/ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@
,,/ Joan Broneske :#:
/(-\ uni...@calweb.com |
,__'/`- http://www.calweb.com/~unicorn/index.html |
/()__) (_)
// \\ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@ --<-@
'' ''
Joan Broneske
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
> Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
>
> You aren't reminded of anywhere near enough fact.
> Snip...
>
> That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
> You don't see at all.
Your "one line wonders" are all very charming, but they don't say jack shit.
>
> We all stand to benefit when education is made available
> to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
And just what members of society is education not made available too?
Let's see...Elementary school education is mandatory--Public school is available to all.
High School education is also available to all (Public School), why, even College and
University education is available to all!! If you are poor or of a certain ethnic
background, you can get your education paid for or a scholarship! Why even welfare will
pay for you to go to a private University, and of course, there are always student
loans. So, what was that again about education not being AVAILABLE?
V. Cicero
I's be knowin dat dis Ebbionics shit be bringin hopes to all da
Bros and Sistars that bes in need. Damn straight bout time
honkey be knowin we be bisexual. Now we bes speakin too langwitch
just like da Messicans so we be gettin mo bread fro honkey.
Welcome to 21st century America where the standards are no standards.
AnonyMouse
-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
> You missed more than your share: you're incoherent.
Ohmigod. I taught Sheila a new word.
Sorry, everybody!
- AnonyMouse
b. paplham
Did someone buy you a thesaurus for your birthday?
--
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
G. Orwell
b. paplham
bpap...@mail.idt.net
b. paplham
<snip>...
> Were you planning to offer anything of valid concern or just
> blather about that which you attempt to read but fail?^^^^
<snip>...
Should read "You be planning to offer......." The Minneapolis Star and
Tribune reported that "You be" is an example of a difference between
"standard" english and ebonics. It can replace "You are" in a statement,
and "Are you" or "Were you" in a question. Good stuff to remember for
your next job interview.
Joseph R. Darancette
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>>A poor home life is not always a guarantee of poor grades.
>Irrelevant.
>> Many people
>>(notably immigrants) have come from poor families and, through
>>education, become successful.
>Irrelevant.
>> General failure of a whole class of people
>>to obtain any measureable success is a damning statement about the
>>entire community in which they live.
>Irrelevant.
I will give you something that is relevant.
1. The verbal section of the SAT test will not be in Eubonic.
2. Employment interviews and questionairs are not in Eubonics.
Theft of opportunity is still theft.
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>|Respectfully, Sheila ~~~Word Warrior~~~ gr...@pipeline.com|
>|Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:|
>| This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up|
>| on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.|
>| *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*|
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AnonyMouse
Steve Brinich wrote:
>
> [Followups trimmed]
> "Productivity"?!?
>
> What do you think will happen when these students show up at
> job interviews speaking "Ebonics" rather than standard English?
>
Don't worry. AA mandates that employers hire some of them anyway.
Uh oh. Now I'm worried.
- AnonyMouse
Homer
Steve Brinich wrote:
>
> [Followups trimmed]
>
>
> > The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
> > generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>
>
> What do you think will happen when these students show up at
> job interviews speaking "Ebonics" rather than standard English?
>
> Steve Brinich ste...@access.digex.net If the government wants us
> PGP:89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E to respect the law
> http://www.access.digex.net/~steve-b it should set a better example
How many high school students from Oakland will even get into college?
Are they going to give the SAT's in eubonics? Are they going to teach
college recruiters eubonics? Are they going to get billingual pay?
J. Kendrick McPeters
dar...@primenet.com (Joseph R. Darancette) wrote:
>I will give you something that is relevant.
>1. The verbal section of the SAT test will not be in Eubonic.
Why not just follow the AA "logic" to the extreme, and have one test
in standard English for whites and asians, one in Spanish for
hispanics, and one in "Ebonics" for the blacks? What could be more
fair for all concerned?
>2. Employment interviews and questionairs are not in Eubonics.
Again, the fedgov could simply mandate that all companies interview
blacks in their "genetically determined" Ebonics. Seems like a
logical extension of the whole idea of mandated preferences.
>Theft of opportunity is still theft.
No, no, no! Only greedy white capitalistic exploiters engage in
theft. When the education bureaucrats decide to do something to
"help" minorities, you can rest assured it will work as planned and do
many great and wonderful things. They are the experts, are they not?
---Kendrick
-->Word Warrior<--
Spark The Heretic <tjmi...@nwark.com> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>> >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
>> >classroom scores,
>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>What used to be called bad grammar is now an official "language"?
No. An independent dialect is being acknowledged as such: big difference.
>I do
>find that interesting. While I do not argue against diversity, can we at
>least keep diversity in the bounds of logic, and away from becoming the
>pet political projects of benighted liberals?
The more resources and efforts applied to the improved service to
disadvantaged students in the educational system the better.
>When I first heard of Ebonics, it immediately reminded me of the movie
>"Airplane" where this little old lady came up to help the doctor speak
>to an ailing passenger from Harlem and said "Excuse me sir, but I'm
>fluent in 'Jive', maybe can I help..." Then proceeds to speak the
>"language" of Jive to the sick passenger.
So what?
What should we do about the language of racist prejudice?
What would your version of Christ say about those welcoming
young students in their own tongues?
>> >I think the proposal has two goals:
>> > To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
>> > for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
>> > average a 1.9 GPA.)
>> How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
>Point taken. But is creating a new dialect of English the way to
>alleviate the problems of that home life?
Acknowledging and accommodating it is not 'creating' it.
>> What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
>> be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
>Or in improving math and science education in public schools, restoring
>buildings within the inner city, or in college scholarships, or....
The coodination of language skills will better prepare
these young people for further study in math and science.
The cost is a miniscule fraction of what's spent on
pointless military posturing and yet represents a
solid investment in the future for us all.
-->Word Warrior<--
zarl...@conan.ids.net (Michael Zarlenga) wrote:
>That's secondary to bureaucrats in the public school system getting
>to line their pockets with more taxpayer money. That's the REAL rea-
>son for this whole issue ... to get more free money from the taxp-
>payers for the bureaucrats.
Your substantiation for that would be _?_
-->Word Warrior<--
wannabe som...@somewhere.com (Anonymous Asshole) wrote:
>Uh oh - the argue bot has executed its "startLongThread" function.
You'd be able to keep it short and sweet indeed if you'd simply
deal fact and not fallacy, wannabe.
>Notice how noone was really defending this whole Ebonics thing and
>then it just happens to come along and say something like this?
False: I've seen some excellent posts in support, which are in
fact the most detailed and informative of them.
(What nameless cowardly poltroons miss does not constitute any
real objective lack except for that within the skulls of such.)
> It
>did a search of its reply database and calculated the response most
>likely to start a long, tiresome thread in which it spouts off idiotic
>catchphrases like "Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless."
Irrelevant.
It is a shame you can't do any better for all that effort.
You poor thing.
>Just ignore it people, it's clearly trolling.
Get a point any time, asshole.
It's too bad they didn't find a way to reach you in school,
but there might not be anything possible for those so stupid
as you show yourself to be.
-->Word Warrior<--
gm...@grayfox.svs.com (G. Mark Stewart) wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
>: wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>: >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
>: >classroom scores,
>: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>Another bullshit generalization.
False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
>"Hey, half of the population is dead!"
>"But it's VARIETY! The average person is seriously ill!"
The disease has rotted your brain!
>About as simplistic a statement as "all discrimination is bad"
>and "AA is discrimination, so it's bad".
No, it's actually too complex a statement for some,
but entirely applicable.
>I thought evolution gave us a brain big enough to handle pesky details
>like these fallacies, but apparently it's given us greater powers of
>rationalization and defensiveness.
Speak for yourself.
I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
point where I understand that anything which offers new
information and encouragement to those not normally
finding it in schools is worth more than will be
spent on it no matter how much that is.
-->Word Warrior<--
"Identity Withheld" <dont...@me.mail> wrote:
>So, you feel it is okay to support teaching a bastardized version of the
>english language?
If it weren't, I'd be telling thee what an asshole
thou art in an even more archaic form than this, forsooth.
>To teach poor grammar and incorrect syntax is going to
>help these people in later years?
You are unfamiliar with the program. Get informed
and make a real point about it if you can.
>-->Word Warrior<-- <gr...@pipeline.com> wrote in article
><59hba6$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>...
>> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>>
>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>>
>> Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
>> in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
>> future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
-->Word Warrior<--
AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>Oppression of what? By whom? What productivity?
Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
>Reminds me that in some cultures the upper class does have their own
>seperate dialects.
You aren't reminded of anywhere near enough fact.
>I can foresee that the special dialect of the upper class will not be
>Ebonics.
That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
>I do see a whole class of people with even less in common with
>mainstream culture than they possessed before.
You don't see at all.
We all stand to benefit when education is made available
to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
-->Word Warrior<--
Steve Brinich <ste...@access.digex.net> wrote:
>[Followups trimmed]
>>Word Warrior wrote:
>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
> "Productivity"?!?
> What do you think will happen when these students show up at
>job interviews speaking "Ebonics" rather than standard English?
Perhaps you imagined that the program would cause such results.
It could simply be your lack of information on it, but one would
think you'd become better informed before spouting off.
-->Word Warrior<--
AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>We are diverse enough without language barriers.
Ebonics bridges a barrier, it doesn't build one.
>Language can be a unifying force, adding strength to a community.
Multilingual people have their thinking broadened thereby.
>> >I think the proposal has two goals:
>> > To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
>> > for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
>> > average a 1.9 GPA.)
>> How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
>A poor home life is not always a guarantee of poor grades.
Irrelevant.
> Many people
>(notably immigrants) have come from poor families and, through
>education, become successful.
Irrelevant.
> General failure of a whole class of people
>to obtain any measureable success is a damning statement about the
>entire community in which they live.
Irrelevant.
The oppression applied by others remains
a non-negligible effect which you've ignored
and misrepresented with a racist fallacy above.
> The people of a community are
>responsible for the type of people that live in a community. Poverty
>breeds crime, but being poor is no crime.
Irrelevant.
>> What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
>> be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
>Peace comes through strength, strength comes from armament.
False: strength comes from generosity.
-->Word Warrior<--
AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>>
>>Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
>Personal attacks aren't facts.
Facts aren't personal attacks.
>We stand at the beginning of a dialectic caste system, and Sheila closes
>her eye.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>> >I can foresee that the special dialect of the upper class will not be
>> >Ebonics.
>> That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
>Ebonics is oppressive.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
> Ebonics hinders inculturation by recognizing the
>validity of a poor substitute.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
> There is no acceptable substitute for
>reading and writing standard English. Ebonics is not taught in schools
>now - but it may be someday, draining resources away from educating the
>poor in english skills.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>(Blech! Didn't ever imagine having to defend English class!)
You certainly don't do that.
>> >I do see a whole class of people with even less in common with
>> >mainstream culture than they possessed before.
>> You don't see at all.
>> We all stand to benefit when education is made available
>> to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
>Yes - but Ebonics is not education, Ebonics is pandering to ignorance.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>How will Ebonics make contributors of the black/poor community?
Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
>I looked it up on the net - I see no substance to Ebonics.
Irrelevant.
>What does Ebonics offer the black community?
Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
Don't jump to conclusions in the meantime, eh?
G. Mark Stewart
: >Word Warrior wrote:
: > The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
: > generate productivity from oppression, eh?
: "Productivity"?!?
: What do you think will happen when these students show up at
: job interviews speaking "Ebonics" rather than standard English?
They'll get hired as Ebonics Professors.
Sorta' like a degree in phys. ed..
-->Word Warrior<--
ca...@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote:
>In article <59hba6$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>, Shot on Site wrote:
>> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>>
>> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>>
>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>>
>> Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
>> in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
>> future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
> Really, it is dishonest to act like Blacks are still officially
>"oppressed".
False: the reality is that racism hasn't disappeared,
and the people of nonwhite skin suffer discrimination
as a measurable result of that.
>This is not true.
Your substantiation for this would be _?_
> The income level and employment level of
>Blacks in general is high.
Your substantiation for this would be _?_
>The myth that the riots ocurred becasue of slum
>living conditions was a convenient and long held belief.
Your substantiation for this would be _?_
> Blacks in government and academia now talk of their own seperate
>"country".
Your substantiation for this would be _?_
>The dispute is with "white America" but it is not related to a
>current "oppression".
Your substantiation for this would be _?_
(Hint: you substantiate none of your claims, but they
can all be proven wrong.)
BobJ.
>zarl...@conan.ids.net (Michael Zarlenga) wrote:
>
>>That's secondary to bureaucrats in the public school system getting
>>to line their pockets with more taxpayer money. That's the REAL rea-
>>son for this whole issue ... to get more free money from the taxp-
>>payers for the bureaucrats.
>
>Your substantiation for that would be _?_
That was a stated objective in the SF Chronicle, New York Times, ABC,
NBC, CBS, and CNN news stories on the Ebonics. One parent said, we
don't care what have to say to get the money, we need the money and if
Ebonic will do dat, then it be fine.
BobJ.
G. Mark Stewart
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
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-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
: gm...@grayfox.svs.com (G. Mark Stewart) wrote:
: >-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
: >: wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
: >: >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
: >: >classroom scores,
: >: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
: >Another bullshit generalization.
: False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
: greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
That's a very nice prescription for regression therapy as well as
symptomatic of drug abuse, and whichever one you're claiming, you can
wait until you come out of it to address the issue.
: >"Hey, half of the population is dead!"
: >"But it's VARIETY! The average person is seriously ill!"
: The disease has rotted your brain!
Amusing that you don't understand the analogy after claiming the value
of lateral thought processes. Unless of course you were bullshitting
in an area you're ignorant of, but I would never accuse you of that,
Sheila. Explicitly.
: >About as simplistic a statement as "all discrimination is bad"
: >and "AA is discrimination, so it's bad".
: No, it's actually too complex a statement for some,
: but entirely applicable.
: >I thought evolution gave us a brain big enough to handle pesky details
: >like these fallacies, but apparently it's given us greater powers of
: >rationalization and defensiveness.
: Speak for yourself.
: I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
And substantially rich in fertilizer.
You're a silly person, Sheila.
If you were in any more over your head, you'd be upside down.
-->Word Warrior<--
Asshole AnonyMousefucker <stan...@pacbell.net> blathers on:
[edit job fucked up in fear of context by loser Mousefucker]
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> Facts aren't personal attacks.
Diversity engenders creativity. To educate empowers
greater future capacity to teach in this ambience.
>Can anyone in ROM offer a reasonable explanation of what benefits might
>be derived from Ebonics?
You're unfamiliar with anthropology, sociology, linguistics,
or even their mere existence?
>Sheila is incoherent
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
> on this subject and I am interested.
Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
>What does Ebonics do for the black community?
Build educational inroads based upon realistic
assessments of approaches most likely to succeed
with the acceptance of the students.
>How will the black community benefit?
Education is a benefit you really ought
to give due consideration.
-->Word Warrior<--
Joan Broneske <uni...@calweb.com> snipped all context so
as to continue to ignore it and pretend to have a point:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> >Snip..
>> Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
>> Snip...
>> You aren't reminded of anywhere near enough fact.
>> Snip...
>> That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
>> Snip...
>> You don't see at all.
>Your "one line wonders" are all very charming, but they don't say jack shit.
They are accurate, if concise, your incomprehension notwithstanding.
Were you planning to offer anything of valid concern or just
blather about that which you attempt to read but fail?
Your uninformed opinions of my style are not germane
to the discussion of educational programs.
>> We all stand to benefit when education is made available
>> to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
>And just what members of society is education not made available too?
You missed more than your share: you're incoherent.
Let's pretend you said it as an educated person would have, eh?
"To which members of society is education not made available?"
Poor schooling and inadequate attention get piled on nonwhites
just like toxic waste gets piled in their neighborhoods.
You should consider getting up on current events.
>Let's see...Elementary school education is mandatory--Public school is available to all.
Availability varies more than you realize.
>High School education is also available to all (Public School), why, even College and
>University education is available to all!! If you are poor or of a certain ethnic
>background, you can get your education paid for or a scholarship! Why even welfare will
>pay for you to go to a private University, and of course, there are always student
>loans. So, what was that again about education not being AVAILABLE?
Those discouraged before preschool by degradation
in their familial traditions and circumstances
are not finding any schooling readily available
at all.
Your simplistic perspective relies on an equality
in the rest of society which is sadly lacking,
and which closes educational doors before
kindergarten.
Become informed: knowledge is power.
-->Word Warrior<--
Joan Broneske <uni...@calweb.com> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>> >: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>> >Another bullshit generalization.
>> False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
>> greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
>Which Psychology/Sociology book did you get that one out of?
Haven't picked your first one yet?
Anything in your local college bookstore will do for starters.
>Snip, Snip
You do have to get rid of that pesky context, as it only
confuses you and makes you indulge in fallacious blather
to avoid the work of comprehending what you attempt to
read on usenet.
>> I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
>> point where I understand that anything which offers new
>> information and encouragement to those not normally
>> finding it in schools is worth more than will be
>> spent on it no matter how much that is.
>And which "garden-variety reason" points out that Ebonics "offers new information and
>encouragement to those not finding it in schools"?
Connections between dialects and perspectives synthesize
new avenues for cooperation and productivity in work teams.
People who are encouraged to build language skills are more
likely to succeed as empowered, capable employees and even
better leaders and role models for those they know.
> Just what kind of encouragement does
>saying that blacks have a genetic reason for slaughtering the English language?
Oh, gawd, you don't get it.
If your language-worship held any water we'd all still
be telling dirty jokes in the same language Chaucer did,
and frankly I'm glad we have fresh idiom instead.
Language dies when you snobs try to decide
you have the patent on it.
>Because
>it gives them an excuse to talk the way they do?
Read up on it. Your ignorance is showing.
>Schools need to concentrate more on the basics and actually teaching children things
>they need to know, instead of all this experimental socialist bullshit.
They can't teach dropouts at all.
They can reach them by speaking their language, and
then teaching them other languages.
Perhaps you were unaware that such is the point.
>I see you are also quite free with other people's money, too.
You don't see very well at all.
Michael Zarlenga
Followup-To: alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalis
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AnonyMouse (stan...@pacbell.net) wrote:
: What does Ebonics do for the black community?
It keeps black children down by not pushing them to excel in the
proper use of the nation's (and most of the world's) language, but
instead encourages them to wallow in street slang.
On TV today, Ex-NYC Mayor Ed Koch said it best when he said that re-
cognizing street slang as a "language" will do nothing positive for
Okaland's black children. It won't help them get jobs or an educa-
tion, it'll just make them feel better about being unemployed.
--
-- Mike Zarlenga
finger zarl...@conan.ids.net for PGP public key
(my favorite new web site : www.clark.net/silhan)
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 02:35:19 GMT, b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
)On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:18:36 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
)Warrior<--) wrote:
)
)>zarl...@conan.ids.net (Michael Zarlenga) wrote:
)>
)>>That's secondary to bureaucrats in the public school system getting
)>>to line their pockets with more taxpayer money. That's the REAL
rea-
)>>son for this whole issue ... to get more free money from the taxp-
)>>payers for the bureaucrats.
)>
)>Your substantiation for that would be _?_
)
)That was a stated objective in the SF Chronicle, New York Times, ABC,
)NBC, CBS, and CNN news stories on the Ebonics. One parent said, we
)don't care what have to say to get the money, we need the money and
if
)Ebonic will do dat, then it be fine.
)
)BobJ.
As an eloquent poster said - "clo de do, ho". Day be cappin da flo.
Mofo be doin da butt, takin bro clo and mo-E - straight up C wit da G.
Biyaaatch.
Anonymous
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:52:20 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
)
)>Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable
improvement in
)>classroom scores,
)
)Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
)
My cat's breath smells like catfood.
)>I think the proposal has two goals:
)> To once again shift blame away from the teachers and
administrators
)> for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland
schools
)> average a 1.9 GPA.)
)
)How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the
poor?
Heyyyyy get rhythm!
)> To suck as much money from the government teat as possible by
)> claiming a need for yet another costly special education and
)> teacher training program where no need existed before.
)
)
)At one time no need existed for rocket science,
)and drawing the necessary from that, ain't.
)
)
)What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
)be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
I like Bjork - that little elf gives me wood. Her father was surely a
carpenter.
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:19:10 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)>Another bullshit generalization.
)
)False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
)greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
Oooohhhh - DEEP! Golly, you sure be intellectual.
)>"Hey, half of the population is dead!"
)>"But it's VARIETY! The average person is seriously ill!"
)
)The disease has rotted your brain!
And such excitement! You're almost as excited as I, what with the
rampant exclamation marks!
)>About as simplistic a statement as "all discrimination is bad"
)>and "AA is discrimination, so it's bad".
)
)No, it's actually too complex a statement for some,
)but entirely applicable.
You == Deep. I bet you and Hal sit around debating deep philosophical
issues all day.
)>I thought evolution gave us a brain big enough to handle pesky
details
)>like these fallacies, but apparently it's given us greater powers of
)>rationalization and defensiveness.
)
)Speak for yourself.
Amen. At least you've got the gonads to insult yourself (though I'm
not entirely sure you realize you are insulting yourself with this).
)I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
)point where I understand that anything which offers new
)information and encouragement to those not normally
)finding it in schools is worth more than will be
)spent on it no matter how much that is.
"spent on it"? Antecedent, please, idiot? What does it refer to? We
non-rocket surgeons like to know what people are referring to when
they use pronouns.
Jack
>"Identity Withheld" <dont...@me.mail> wrote:
>
>>So, you feel it is okay to support teaching a bastardized version of the
>>english language?
>
>If it weren't, I'd be telling thee what an asshole
>thou art in an even more archaic form than this, forsooth.
>
>>To teach poor grammar and incorrect syntax is going to
>>help these people in later years?
>
>You are unfamiliar with the program. Get informed
>and make a real point about it if you can.
(clipped)
I have noticed that your follow up posts in both this NG and
talk.politics.guns have the same thread in it. You ridicule the
poster and then make a comment about "getting informed and making a
real point".
Perhaps we see in others what we see in ourselves. The best of luck
to you.
Jack
David Nieporent
In article <32BB20...@magpage.com>,
richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> wrote:
>Matt Fuller wrote:
>> "Terry C. Shannon" <sha...@world.std.com> wrote:
>> >b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>> >>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>> >>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>> >>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>> >>of proper EBONICS:
>> >Tell me you are joking. Please!
>> No, it's true!
Well, not exactly. They didn't "adopt" a new language. They decided to
"recognize" black English as a second language.
>Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
Well, yes, that's the theory. The problem is that the Federal government
isn't bound by the Oakland County School Board. The Federal government
does NOT recognize "Ebonics" as a separate language. (Nor do linguists,
incidentally. It's a dialect, at most.) So they aren't going to get
federal funds, whether they call it a second language or an eggplant.
--
David M. Nieporent Deserves it? I daresay he does. Many who live
Niep...@pluto.njcc.com deserve death. And some who die deserve life. Can
Hampshire/Plainsboro, NJ you give it to them? Then be not so quick to give
FIRE PAT GILLICK!!!! the other. For not even the wise can see all ends.
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 02:09:56 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
)
)>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
)>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity
itself.
)
)>We are diverse enough without language barriers.
)
)Ebonics bridges a barrier, it doesn't build one.
My gonads smell.
)>Language can be a unifying force, adding strength to a community.
)
)Multilingual people have their thinking broadened thereby.
Cross dressers have their thinking broadened therby. Golly, you sure
do speak dat good english. You must be deep o sometin.
)>> >I think the proposal has two goals:
)>> > To once again shift blame away from the teachers and
administrators
)>> > for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland
schools
)>> > average a 1.9 GPA.)
)>> How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of
the poor?
)
)>A poor home life is not always a guarantee of poor grades.
)
)Irrelevant.
Smurfs give me a tent.
)> Many people
)>(notably immigrants) have come from poor families and, through
)>education, become successful.
)
)Irrelevant.
The silicon in my left arm makes me jealous of tin cans.
Glass is perdy.
)> General failure of a whole class of people
)>to obtain any measureable success is a damning statement about the
)>entire community in which they live.
)
)Irrelevant.
)
)The oppression applied by others remains
)a non-negligible effect which you've ignored
)and misrepresented with a racist fallacy above.
The cross section of non-represented foreigners and dignitaries
reminds me of Loni Anderson in curlers. Curl the leather suite,
non-skeptics - it is your last animal-hide.
)> The people of a community are
)>responsible for the type of people that live in a community.
Poverty
)>breeds crime, but being poor is no crime.
)
)Irrelevant.
Me like wooden tables - they don't bleed like seals.
)>> What a shame something like this diverts fundage that could
)>> be put to use in the armament industry, eh?
)
)>Peace comes through strength, strength comes from armament.
)
)False: strength comes from generosity.
Strength comes from my left gonad. Ordinarily my right one
capitulates, but the whole Grand Rapides entropy affair has made it
stand-offish of late.
BobJ.
Darn you AnyMouse, now we'll have incoherent added to word worriors
other gems, like "Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless"
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:24:53 -0800, AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net>
wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>
>> You missed more than your share: you're incoherent.
>
>Ohmigod. I taught Sheila a new word.
>
>Sorry, everybody!
>
>- AnonyMouse
Ross Williams
In article <59hbab$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net> -->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>
>>Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable
> improvementin
>>classroom scores,
>
>Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
Measure it.
>>I think the proposal has two goals:
>> To once again shift blame away from the teachers and administrators
>> for an abysmal education program. (Black students in Oakland schools
>> average a 1.9 GPA.)
>
>How would teachers be responsible for the degraded home lives of the poor?
Explain the continued lack of correlation despite years of research by
people who want to find one.
-rw (Don't hate me because I'm right)
Ross Williams
In article <59ifbk$g...@earth.njcc.com> David Nieporent wrote:
>richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> wrote:
>>Matt Fuller wrote:
>>> "Terry C. Shannon" <sha...@world.std.com> wrote:
>>> >b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) wrote:
>>> >>The Oakland School System in California has just adopted a new
>>> >>Language as an official language for students in the public school
>>> >>system. The new "language" is called EBONICS, here are a few examples
>>> >>of proper EBONICS:
>>> >Tell me you are joking. Please!
>>> No, it's true!
>
>Well, not exactly. They didn't "adopt" a new language. They decided to
>"recognize" black English as a second language.
>
>>Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>
>Well, yes, that's the theory. The problem is that the Federal government
>isn't bound by the Oakland County School Board. The Federal government
>does NOT recognize "Ebonics" as a separate language. (Nor do linguists,
>incidentally. It's a dialect, at most.)
This is somewhat incorrect. The "black" dialectic English is called
"Gullah" by linguists (or *was* called Gullah until this "new" revelation in
Oakland), and is more than a dialect; it is a creole, a mixture of two or
more languages settling mostly into dictionary of one, with standard
linguistics patterns of its own. It is definitely far more than slang.
That does not, however, justify special treatment be accorded it by a school
system sworn to educate children into socially integrable individuals.
If Gullah, or Ebonics, or Eggplantese is granted status as biolingualism,
the fine folks from the bayous of Loosynanna have a much more historical
legitimacy and a primary claim to any benefits to be derived of such
recognition. Like an immediate increase of about 2.0 in old GPAs and
college admissions denied thereon.
The homey in Oaklan be havin to stan in lines.
'Course, they may be used to that.
> So they aren't going to get
>federal funds, whether they call it a second language or an eggplant.
Hopefully not.
-->Word Warrior<--
gm...@grayfox.svs.com (G. Mark Stewart) wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
>: gm...@grayfox.svs.com (G. Mark Stewart) wrote:
>: >-->Word Warrior<-- (gr...@pipeline.com) wrote:
>: >: wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>: >: >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
>: >: >classroom scores,
>: >: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>: >Another bullshit generalization.
>: False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
>: greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
>That's a very nice prescription for regression therapy
Specify.
>as well as
>symptomatic of drug abuse,
Specify.
>and whichever one you're claiming,
Non sequitur.
>you can
>wait until you come out of it to address the issue.
Fallacious.
>: >"Hey, half of the population is dead!"
>: >"But it's VARIETY! The average person is seriously ill!"
>: The disease has rotted your brain!
>Amusing that you don't understand the analogy after claiming the value
>of lateral thought processes. Unless of course you were bullshitting
>in an area you're ignorant of, but I would never accuse you of that,
>Sheila. Explicitly.
Fallacious.
>: >About as simplistic a statement as "all discrimination is bad"
>: >and "AA is discrimination, so it's bad".
>: No, it's actually too complex a statement for some,
>: but entirely applicable.
>: >I thought evolution gave us a brain big enough to handle pesky details
>: >like these fallacies, but apparently it's given us greater powers of
>: >rationalization and defensiveness.
>: Speak for yourself.
>: I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
>And substantially rich in fertilizer.
>You're a silly person, Sheila.
>If you were in any more over your head, you'd be upside down.
Fallacious.
You typed all that and never ascended into pertinence.
What a waste.
Ross Williams
In article <32bdf5b4...@Concord01.news.internex.net> BobJ. wrote:
>gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>>AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>>>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>>>We are diverse enough without language barriers.
>>Ebonics bridges a barrier, it doesn't build one.
Substantiate, please.
>That is pure speculation on your part, there is no evidence that
>Ebonics will do anything positive, yet there is considerable that
>ESL's have not worked in any language. (English as a Second Language)
There is a sociologist at Southern IL compiling massive amounts of evidence
that rampant diversity is a killer. Ironic, seeing as he's a hippie-freak,
fully committed to diversity of culture. Language barriers are not merely
positively correlated with a lower life expectancy, but a full-fledged
predictor of early death. I.e., you gotsa talk de talk of Da Man who be De
Man in your lan, otherwise it's *your* neck on the block, not Da Man's
This may is axeppible in Oaklan fo da homies. More power to 'em. Don't get
sick and need a doctor or nothin though.
>>>Language can be a unifying force, adding strength to a community.
Uh-huh. If that community is self-sustaining. Find me an inner city which
is self-sustaining and I'll concede the validity of your point.
>>Multilingual people have their thinking broadened thereby.
Demonstrate this, please.
>I would hate to see the uproar if Newt had suggested Ebonics.
It woulda been declared out-n-out racism.
>I think you pretty much make up as you go...
We've known that.
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 04:16:19 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)Joan Broneske <uni...@calweb.com> wrote:
)
)>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
)>> >: Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity
itself.
)>> >Another bullshit generalization.
)>> False: the syntheses of varied perspectives allows for
)>> greater lateral breadth in thought itself.
)>Which Psychology/Sociology book did you get that one out of?
)
)Haven't picked your first one yet?
)
)Anything in your local college bookstore will do for starters.
Japanese are comparitively short.
)>Snip, Snip
)
)You do have to get rid of that pesky context, as it only
)confuses you and makes you indulge in fallacious blather
)to avoid the work of comprehending what you attempt to
)read on usenet.
My right gonad is fallacious, you must be referring to that. I resent
that deeply - it tries. You are harming its self esteem and if you
persist it will press charges.
"In the case of the left gonad of John Doe versus Green Moldy Vagina
Mouth, we the jury find for the gonad to the tune of $40,000,000.
Pay up, biyatch.
)>> I can use plain old garden-variety reason to get to the
)>> point where I understand that anything which offers new
)>> information and encouragement to those not normally
)>> finding it in schools is worth more than will be
)>> spent on it no matter how much that is.
)>And which "garden-variety reason" points out that Ebonics "offers
new information and
)>encouragement to those not finding it in schools"?
)
)Connections between dialects and perspectives synthesize
)new avenues for cooperation and productivity in work teams.
)People who are encouraged to build language skills are more
)likely to succeed as empowered, capable employees and even
)better leaders and role models for those they know.
Mu nuts synthesize many chemicals. Suck them.
)> Just what kind of encouragement does
)>saying that blacks have a genetic reason for slaughtering the
English language?
)
)
)Oh, gawd, you don't get it.
Burp.
)If your language-worship held any water we'd all still
)be telling dirty jokes in the same language Chaucer did,
)and frankly I'm glad we have fresh idiom instead.
You = deep. Are you an English teacher at the local community
college? Seen "Dead Poets Society" _one_ too many times, have we,
baby?
)Language dies when you snobs try to decide
)you have the patent on it.
My gonad has a patent on the thrust and withdraw method. Please
advise your dog that his imitation of said effect in sessions with you
will be seen as infringement.
)>Because
)>it gives them an excuse to talk the way they do?
)
)
)Read up on it. Your ignorance is showing.
No - that's my colon.
)>Schools need to concentrate more on the basics and actually teaching
children things
)>they need to know, instead of all this experimental socialist
bullshit.
)
)
)They can't teach dropouts at all.
)
)They can reach them by speaking their language, and
)then teaching them other languages.
)
)Perhaps you were unaware that such is the point.
Clo de do, ho. You B in da way, biyatch.
)
)>I see you are also quite free with other people's money, too.
)
)
)You don't see very well at all.
The clock strikes twelve at a time statistically unlikely to be equal
to twelve.
Aaron Evans
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
>>Oppression of what? By whom? What productivity?
>
>Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
Way to substantiate your argument, "word warrior". If only I had know
earlier that for each time you stated "substantiation unspecified"
that "your ignorance is massive" was a valid answer.
---aaro...@mail.utexas.edu---------------
"Justice? Who asks for justice? We make our
own justice. We make it here... win or die".
- Dune, Herbert.
Aaron Evans
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>Personal attacks aren't facts.
>
>Facts aren't personal attacks.
Uh... substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless. For
instance, if I were to publish private information damaging the
character of a person, would those facts not be a personal attack? In
my opinion, a less than clever rhetorical ploy on your part. Are you
growing so soft that you would post a meaningless and false statement
such as above without even thinking twice?
And I ask, is any of the following constructive?
[...]
>Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
[...]
>Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
[...]
>Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
[...]
>Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
[...]
>Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Max Kennedy
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
>>Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
>The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>generate productivity from oppression, eh?
You mean, "The nerve of em taken my cash and using dat to git my ho
off crack?"
Aaron Evans
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>ca...@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote:
>> Really, it is dishonest to act like Blacks are still officially
>>"oppressed".
>
>False: the reality is that racism hasn't disappeared,
>and the people of nonwhite skin suffer discrimination
>as a measurable result of that.
And how does this contradict his statement that black colored people
are not officially oppressed? Racism does not imply, and is not
implied by, official oppression. For instance (hold your horses, the
substantiation follows...), in the U.S.A. racism exists, yet there are
no official public policies oppressing black colored people (in an
honest sense). Or would you care to point me toward those laws which
make a black colored person less than others in the eyes of
government?
>(Hint: you substantiate none of your claims, but they
>can all be proven wrong.)
Hmmm.
Aaron Evans
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
Would you care to post a cite? Or are there some of us who do not
have to substantiate every single detail?
Aaron Evans
gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word Warrior<--) wrote:
>The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
>generate productivity from oppression, eh?
Actually, the plan is to spend those tax monies collected by the
federal government (substantiation: Oakland school district declares
ebonics language to collect federal aid, newspapers say). Therefore,
these monies are more than simply yours.
The question is, what business is it of Oakland's to insist that the
monies of other parties be spent upon this policy, despite it being an
object of beneviolence? Under what constitutional authority can the
federal government spend those tax monies it has collected in such a
manner?
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:08:12 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)ca...@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote:
)>In article <59hba6$r...@taurus.bv.sgi.net>, Shot on Site wrote:
)
)>> richard stout <sto...@magpage.com> observed profoundly:
)>>
)>> >Just another way to get some federal funds for poor people.....
)>>
)>> The nerve of them to take my tax dollars and use them to
)>> generate productivity from oppression, eh?
)>>
)>> Such anthropology is normally reserved for higher levels
)>> in the educational system, so this is laudable for their
)>> future potential to be thus brought early to our youth.
)
)> Really, it is dishonest to act like Blacks are still officially
)>"oppressed".
)
)False: the reality is that racism hasn't disappeared,
)and the people of nonwhite skin suffer discrimination
)as a measurable result of that.
My cat disappeared last night. I told my dog to "clo de do, ho!".
She didn't listen. It's all your fault.
)>This is not true.
)
)Your substantiation for this would be _?_
_?_ is my substantiation.
)> The income level and employment level of
)>Blacks in general is high.
)
)Your substantiation for this would be _?_
_?_ is my substantiation.
)>The myth that the riots ocurred becasue of slum
)>living conditions was a convenient and long held belief.
)
)Your substantiation for this would be _?_
_?_ is my substantiation.
)> Blacks in government and academia now talk of their own seperate
)>"country".
)
)Your substantiation for this would be _?_
_?_ is my substantiation.
)>The dispute is with "white America" but it is not related to a
)>current "oppression".
)
)Your substantiation for this would be _?_
)
Okay, in this case I'll admit _?_ doesn't quite make it.
I'll step on da plank and say that _%_ is my substantiation. I know
it's got some logical fallacies, but I think _#_ is a little bit
overkill, and _@_ is not kosher in this day and time.
_!_ was actually quite relevent, but I didn't think the pro _*_ among
you would accept that as a decent argumentative argument.
At least with _%_ even the _^_ among you can accept the
non-reciprocity of my stance.
_+_ you ask?
HAHAHA - don't even mention that. The anti-_-_ among you would throw
a fit.
Needless to say, _=_ wasn't even considered - as we all know that only
applies to arguments in which ___ isn't involved.
In this case, BELIEVE ME BABY! - ___ is involved.
)
)(Hint: you substantiate none of your claims, but they
)can all be proven wrong.)
Monitor too big.
Anonymous
)AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
)
)>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
)>>
)>>Your ignorance is massive and inexcuseable.
)
)>Personal attacks aren't facts.
)
)Facts aren't personal attacks.
Tres clever. You must be the rage of the Parisien drawing room.
)>We stand at the beginning of a dialectic caste system, and Sheila
closes
)>her eye.
)
)Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Penis large; frightening nonetheless.
)>> >I can foresee that the special dialect of the upper class will
not be
)>> >Ebonics.
)>> That's irrelevant, entirely, and symbolic of your ignorance.
)
)>Ebonics is oppressive.
)
)Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Donu heavy; fruity and yet salty regardless.
)> Ebonics hinders inculturation by recognizing the
)>validity of a poor substitute.
)
)Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Crotch hidden; smelly regardless.
)> There is no acceptable substitute for
)>reading and writing standard English. Ebonics is not taught in
schools
)>now - but it may be someday, draining resources away from educating
the
)>poor in english skills.
)
)Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Glass. Tee-hee.
)>(Blech! Didn't ever imagine having to defend English class!)
)
)You certainly don't do that.
My foot odor does that and much more.
)>> >I do see a whole class of people with even less in common with
)>> >mainstream culture than they possessed before.
)>> You don't see at all.
)>> We all stand to benefit when education is made available
)>> to those whom we need as contributing members of society.
)
)>Yes - but Ebonics is not education, Ebonics is pandering to
ignorance.
)
)Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless.
Urine cakes!
)>How will Ebonics make contributors of the black/poor community?
)
)Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
Me like water, water like me.
)>I looked it up on the net - I see no substance to Ebonics.
)
)Irrelevant.
SNORF! SNORF! HOGGLEBASS ET SNORT!
)>What does Ebonics offer the black community?
)
)Do your own homework and solve your ignorance problem if you can.
)
)
)Don't jump to conclusions in the meantime, eh?
He really shouldn't - it's not good on the arches. He'll be
flatfooted in no time. I'd like to see him investigate competently
for Kitty at that juncture! HAHA. I doubt it, Mister. But don't say
me no warn you. Tonto resent implication.
BobJ.
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 02:09:56 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
>AnonyMouse <stan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
>
>>We are diverse enough without language barriers.
>
>Ebonics bridges a barrier, it doesn't build one.
That is pure speculation on your part, there is no evidence that
Ebonics will do anything positive, yet there is considerable that
ESL's have not worked in any language. (English as a Second Language)
>
>>Language can be a unifying force, adding strength to a community.
>
>Multilingual people have their thinking broadened thereby.
Nice touchy-feely talk, but again there is absolutely no evidence to
substantiate that claim. Multilingual people don't test higher, are
not statistically more creative, kinder, wiser, or have any other
attribute to distinguish them from non-multilingual folks except that
they speak more than one language.
It is clear that it is more difficult to be successful in America
without a strong command of spoken and written English. The written
part is the most difficult when English is not your first language.
Ebonics will pose a true handicap in the workplace where most of your
image is based on your ability to write well. Most folks who don't
speak well, don't write well either.
I would hate to see the uproar if Newt had suggested Ebonics.
BobJ.
Anonymous
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:18:21 GMT, gr...@pipeline.com (-->Word
Warrior<--) wrote:
)Spark The Heretic <tjmi...@nwark.com> wrote:
)
)>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
)>> wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
)>> >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable
improvement in
)>> >classroom scores,
)>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity
itself.
)>What used to be called bad grammar is now an official "language"?
)
)No. An independent dialect is being acknowledged as such: big
difference.
You be an idgit.
)>I do
)>find that interesting. While I do not argue against diversity, can
we at
)>least keep diversity in the bounds of logic, and away from becoming
the
)>pet political projects of benighted liberals?
)
)The more resources and efforts applied to the improved service to
)disadvantaged students in the educational system the better.
The more time spent shining my helmet the better. Get to work.
)>When I first heard of Ebonics, it immediately reminded me of the
movie
)>"Airplane" where this little old lady came up to help the doctor
speak
)>to an ailing passenger from Harlem and said "Excuse me sir, but I'm
)>fluent in 'Jive', maybe can I help..." Then proceeds to speak the
)>"language" of Jive to the sick passenger.
)
)So what?
)
)What should we do about the language of racist prejudice?
)
)What would your version of Christ say about those welcoming
)young students in their own tongues?
He'd say "what the fuck does 'dat' mean?!?".
)
)>Point taken. But is creating a new dialect of English the way to
)>alleviate the problems of that home life?
)
)Acknowledging and accommodating it is not 'creating' it.
Acknowledge this.
)>Or in improving math and science education in public schools,
restoring
)>buildings within the inner city, or in college scholarships, or....
)
)The coodination of language skills will better prepare
)these young people for further study in math and science.
Yeah. 2 + 2 be fo.
3 * 3 be nine, like a gat.
In no time they'll be doing gangsta calculus.
Da tird derivitive of Cos X be -Cos X, biyatch.
)The cost is a miniscule fraction of what's spent on
)pointless military posturing and yet represents a
)solid investment in the future for us all.
Your great aunt was probably posturing in a porno by age 9.
Jim Murphy
b...@ezon.com (BobJ.) posted the following:
>
>Darn you AnyMouse, now we'll have incoherent added to word worriors
>other gems, like "Substantiation unspecified; fallacious regardless"
>
>
In the interest of bandwidth brevity, she should offer that
phrase as the acronym SUFR, since I truly suffer each time I read
one of her sad retorts.
Larry Hughes
>
> >> Really, it is dishonest to act like Blacks are still officially
> >
> >False: the reality is that racism hasn't disappeared,
>
> are not officially oppressed? Racism does not imply, and is not
> implied by, official oppression. For instance (hold your horses, the
> substantiation follows...), in the U.S.A. racism exists, yet there are
> no official public policies oppressing black colored people (in an
> honest sense). Or would you care to point me toward those laws which
> make a black colored person less than others in the eyes of
> government?
>
>
> Hmmm.
> "Justice? Who asks for justice? We make our
> own justice. We make it here... win or die".
This is a offense to everybody
east...@mail.bright.net
Spark The Heretic <tjmi...@nwark.com> wrote:
>-->Word Warrior<-- wrote:
>>
>> wd6...@netcom.com (Eric Williams) wrote:
>>
>> >Since bi-lingual education has shown to provide no measurable improvement in
>> >classroom scores,
>>
>> Everyone benefits from diversity as it engenders creativity itself.
.-----English Version-----
Did I hear this right?
At work we have background music where the
news comes up every half hour. I thought
I heard there was a drive on to have the
US Department of Education recognize shuck
and jive (aka RAP) as a legitimate second
language? Seems some black leaders want
blacks to be recognized as "bi-lingual"
gaining more federal money for black school
districts.
Is this true? Has anyone else heard the
same reports?
So I, in the spirit of multi-culturalism,
will attempt to translate this message,
using a nifty "Jive Translator", so that
this mesage can be read by all.
I know what you're thinking! You're
probably wondering how you can be among
the first on your block to to possess
this wonderful piece of software!
You're thinking how wonderful and
fulfilling it would be to be among the
first in your neighborhood to be better
able to communicate with the other 12%
of the US population that speaks "Jive"
as their native language. Am I right?
Well, as it was so well stated
by the wonderful and kind Rodney
King, and in the spirit of "can
everybody just get along", I'll
be glad to provide you a copy of
the Jive Translator if you'll
just drop me an E-Mail with
your request!
-----Translated To The Jive-----
Did ah' hear dis right?
At wo'k we gots' background beat where de
news comes down every half hour. Ah be
baaad... ah' dought heard dere wuz some
roll on t'gots' de US Department uh
Educashun da' dig shuck and JIBE
(nigga' speak aka RAP) as sum git
secund language? Seems sum da' brothers
wants' all brother's t'be recognized as
"bi-lin'ual" in o'da' to gain mo'e federal
bre'd fo' brother da'districts.
Is dis true? Has anyone else heard desame repo'ts?
So I, in de spirit uh multi-culturalism,gots'ta attempt t'translate
dis message,usin' some nifty "Jive Translato'", so's
dat dis mesage kin be eyeball by all.
I know whut youse dinkin'. Right On!
Youse probably wonderin' how t'be among
de fust on yo' block t'to possess dis
wonderful piece of software. Right On!
Youse dinkin' how wonderful and
fulfillin' it would be t'be among
de fust in yo' neighbo'hood t'be
betta' able to communicate wid de
oda' 58% of de US populashun dat
speaks "Jive" as deir native language.
Am ah' right?
Sheeit, as it wuz so's sheeit statedby de wonderful and kind
RodneyKin', and in de spirit uh "can't
everybody plum get along", I'll be
glad t'provide ya' some copy ofde Jive Translato' if ya''ll plum drop
me an E-Mail wid yo'
request. Right On!