Bush Cuts SS Benefits by 1/3!
chud...@ix.netcom.com
Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
at the polls this November!
Roger Shouse
>In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
>Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
Ok, this ought to be good!
> Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
>which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
>on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
>interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
That's a total hoot. Bush's plan calls for allowing individuals to invest up
to 2% of their SS contribution in private accounts. There is no provision for
cutting SS taxes. Workers don't lose anything. In fact, they gain from being
able to tap in to higher returns on their own money.
> Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
>next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
Another hoot.
> Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
>at the polls this November!
Have fun trying. So far, the public loves Bush's plan. So do several leading
Democrat Senators!
tcompute
control over my own money and screw the left wing Nazi wacko. (who use it to
buy votes)
VOTE Libertarian!
"Roger Shouse" <rc...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:rcs8.2544...@psu.edu...
Frank Hurst
chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote in message <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com>...
>In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
>Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
>which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
>on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
>interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
>next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
>
>at the polls this November!
And this has to do with talk.politics.guns....How?
chud...@ix.netcom.com
ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
that money shortage gonna be made up from?
If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
Roger Shouse wrote:
>
> In article <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com> chud...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> >In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> >Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
> Ok, this ought to be good!
>
> > Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
> >which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> >on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> >interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
> That's a total hoot. Bush's plan calls for allowing individuals to invest up
> to 2% of their SS contribution in private accounts. There is no provision for
> cutting SS taxes. Workers don't lose anything. In fact, they gain from being
> able to tap in to higher returns on their own money.
>
> > Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
> >next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
>
> Another hoot.
>
> > Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
> >at the polls this November!
>
Jeff Schwartz
<chud...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3922E4...@ix.netcom.com...
> OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
> ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
> that money shortage gonna be made up from?
>
> If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
> at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
>
> Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
>
Okay, Sparky, its like this:
I'm 32 years old. Last year, I made about $92k. I paid taxes, FICA, the
whole deal.
You think I'm actually gonna see any return on that in 40 years - which puts
me at 72, which as the keep raising the age you can take out of SS is where
I'd have a chance to see it.
Either "Yes, SS is still running" in which case my kids are going to be
paying a hell of a lot more than 6.2% into SS to pay for all the still
living baby boomers or
"No, SS rules have changed, you have to be 99 to apply for bennies", in
which case I'm relaxing on the beach with my 401k and IRA.
Maybe, just maybe, with the 1/3rd law, they'll let people open those up at
70, even if the other 2/3rd are still unavailable.
SS is a ponzi scheme, a setup that if tried in the private sector would be
prosecuted under racketeering, RICO, and extortion laws. SS is bad, and the
sooner it dawns on the average person that they're being ripped off, the
sooner the US will have a chance to turn things around.
On the other hand, nobody ever votes "no" on what they think is a free ride,
so I may as well forget that pipe dream.
"Money shortage made up" - gimme a break ... I keep hearing about this huge
SS surplus, how El Jeffe Clinton has saved us all with it. Now you're
saying we need to put every penny in , so that it'll break even. Which is
true, Sparky?
Ah, heck. Anybody as silly as you must be a troll...
*PLONK*
bob
chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
Call it "risky"! Call it "risky"! Call it "risky"!
Bob
Bill Bonde
tcompute wrote:
> Take SS and shove it up your ass! I don't want it or need it. Give me
> control over my own money and screw the left wing Nazi wacko. (who use it to
> buy votes)
> VOTE Libertarian!
I don't suppose you are much for incrementally working toward change. This
modificaiton of SS will help move in the direction you want. Or you can let Gore
win and go the other way.
Bill Bonde
chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
> ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
> that money shortage gonna be made up from?
>
The total that can be invested is 2% of the total money invested and not just the
direct contribution from the employee.
> If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
> at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
>
You obviusly don't have any idea what you are talking about. How can you claim 2%
is 1/3 of 12%?
> Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
>
No, you set that record.
> Roger Shouse wrote:
> >
> > In article <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com> chud...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> >
> > >In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> > >Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
> >
Superdave the Wonderchemist
: In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
: Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
: Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
: which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
: on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
: interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
Hey dodohead, it is 2 points out of 12.4%, not 6.2%, that's just under
1/6. Besides all the money IS YOURS!!! It can even be passed on to your
family when you bite the big one. It will also NOT cause any reduction in
current payouts.
: Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
: next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
You are not making any sense.
: Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
: at the polls this November!
Do you have evidence GWB took bribes? That is Constitutional grounds for
impeachment and removal of a President. As such it should be instantly
investigated. If you find any evidence, post it here and send a copy to
the FEC, one to the FBI, and one to the IRS.
--
--"The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours
spent in fishing." -- Babylonian proverb
-Superdave The Wonderchemist Ph.D. Candidate (end of slavery in sight)
Theoretical Quantum Chemist (fun, eh?)
NDSU Fargo, ND (read middle of nowhere)
Disclaimer:
I speak for no one but myself unless I am wrong, then I speak
on behalf of someone else. (read whatever)
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ยง227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
THE GENERALISSIMO
>From: chud...@ix.netcom.com
>Date: 5/17/00 10:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com>
>In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
>Federal program ever
Yea a plan where you pay in hundreds of thousands of dollars for 40 years and
get back less than 1/4 of the amount that would have been there if you just put
it in CD's is more successful that the student loan program that has allowed
hundreds of thousands of students go to college.
"I did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski in any way, shape, or form"
Clintons affidavit to the court that prompted his lawyer to respond in a letter
to the court: "I can no longer vouch for the veracity of my clients statements"
Rick Wilson
thw...@prairie.NoDak.edu (Superdave the Wonderchemist) wrote:
> chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> : In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> : Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
> : Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
> : which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> : on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> : interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
> Hey dodohead, it is 2 points out of 12.4%, not 6.2%, that's just under
> 1/6. Besides all the money IS YOURS!!! It can even be passed on to
your
> family when you bite the big one. It will also NOT cause any
reduction in
> current payouts.
So you believe that the system can continue to pay out the same amount
of money even though it'll be taking in less under Bush's plan?
-Rick Wilson
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Superdave the Wonderchemist
: tcompute wrote:
I am for any positive move. We cannot get everything in one bite, but we
can do it incrementally just like the liberals. In fact, incrementalism
works and it works well. If I cannot enjoy the blessings of liberty for
my self, I certainly hope to work that my posterity can.
As for me, I do not expect to get anything from SS, since it will only be
solvent until the year before I am eligible. This is why I invest in my
future. I do not expect anybody on any of these NG's to be making
anything less than I do as a grad student, so all you whiners can shut up
and go away. I'd make more at McDonald's down the road right now.
Bama Brian
ever?
Bwahaha! ROFLMAO! Bwahaha!
The current Social Security system is nothing but a federally sponsored
Ponzi scheme. It's one of those chain letters gone berserk, with gangsters
with guns coming to take away your money if you don't pay up. It's been
used to fund every pork barrel project for the last fifty years; that's why
it will broke one day.
The only reason Social Security has any money at all is because both the
percentage ripped from your pay check, and the maximum amount that can be
taken have both been raised, and raised, and raised over the years.
Tell you what, chudecek, go do your own calculations of compound interest
and see what the difference would be if you were allowed to put your SS
money in an account that paid only 7% for your entire working life.
Or can you not handle compounded interest calculations?
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
NRA Life
GOA Life
Libertarian
Voting for the lesser of two evils is STILL voting for an evil.
Vote Libertarian. You'll be glad you did.
<chud...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3922D7...@ix.netcom.com...
> In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
> Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
> which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
> Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
> next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
>
Gajr
Moronic as RoseAssholes. Can't you Liberal Democratic children get a new toy to
play with. The screaming lie fear tactic is old news and no one buys it
anymore. Maybe you should take a course in landscape painting to use up your
time. Thanks and have a real nice day. Bye Bye Now.
Gajr
Harold
>OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
>ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
>that money shortage gonna be made up from?
Same place it will come from now, taxes.
>
> If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
>at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
This is not a mortgage, it is welfare.
>
> Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
I would ordinarily agree, but I think you have moved into first place
with your effort here.
Regards, Harold
----
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look
upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
--- Mahatma Gandhi "Gandhi, An Autobiography", page 446
CaptainKK
chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
> ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
> that money shortage gonna be made up from?
>
> If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
> at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
>
> Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
Bush's plan is risky and has plenty of flaws but don't prove yourself ignorant in
front of the whole world.
First, the 6.2% you pay out of your pocket is matched by an equal amount that your
employer sends in and will deduct from your pension later so your 1/3 is really
1/6.
Second current payments exceed current benefits so some amount of that will not be
missed as the government just won't buy so many of the special bonds that cannot be
traded by anyone other than SSA and the US Treasury. Third, there is already a huge
pile of those special bonds sitting in a vault somewhere that represents all the
extra money that has been paid in since '82 or so. That means that no additional
dollars are needed EXCEPT that the US treasury will have to exchnge those special
bonds for real money now instead of later. How can they do that? The surplus.
Bush's proposal actually takes money out of gevernment control and puts it into
private hands.
The problems with Bush's plan have to do with what happens a few years from now
when the pile of bonds is gone and benefits are exceeding revenues. Will he raise
taxes or lower benefits? And how will he do it?
Ken
>
>
> Roger Shouse wrote:
> >
> > In article <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com> chud...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> >
> > >In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> > >Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
> >
> > Ok, this ought to be good!
> >
> > > Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
> > >which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> > >on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> > >interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
> >
> > That's a total hoot. Bush's plan calls for allowing individuals to invest up
> > to 2% of their SS contribution in private accounts. There is no provision for
> > cutting SS taxes. Workers don't lose anything. In fact, they gain from being
> > able to tap in to higher returns on their own money.
> >
> > > Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
> > >next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
> >
> > Another hoot.
> >
> > > Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
> > >at the polls this November!
> >
Matt Nichols
>OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
>ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
>that money shortage gonna be made up from?
>
> If you pay a third less on your mortgage, and use that money
>at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
>
> Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth.
Wasn't Republicans who set up the damn Ponzi scheme in the first
place. Set a cut-off date, and phase out SS completely over the next
20 years or so. In the mean time, withdraw all SS funds from the
General Fund and invest them through professional investment firms,
cutting as much government out of the loop as possible.
Cut other programs to pay off the national debt, then institute a
hiring freeze and reduce all government program budgets by 2/3 and
allow the deadwood to retire out. Then cut off all government pension
programs for *everyone*, and make all government employees "at will"
employees, able to be laid off as necessary to keep the budget in
check.
Reduce Congress to a part-time job and reform FCC regulations so that
political air and print costs are "donated" equally by each licensee
to each registered candidate, and only allow political contributions
to a general political fund that is split evenly among all official
candidates to spend as they see fit (presumably on mass mailing and TV
commercial production, if they want fancy stuff). Make political
contributions to parties illegal, or make party-funded advertising
illegal. Require candidates to conduct at least 4 open debates with
each other as a condition of running for office.
-Matt
Dan Day
>OK Dum-Dum. When individuals are permitted NOT to contribute
>ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
>that money shortage gonna be made up from?
Tell you what, just as soon as Democratic politicians
start saying, "you know, I'd like a way to take money
out of my stock portfolio and shovel it into
my Social Security contributions instead", *THEN* I'll
buy your nonsense.
Until then, you make me laugh.
--
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the
plain Meaning of Words!"
--Samuel Adams (1722-1803), letter to John Pitts, January 21, 1776
rose...@idt.net
>Yea a plan where you pay in hundreds of thousands of dollars for 40 years and
>get back less than 1/4 of the amount that would have been there if you just put
>it in CD's
Is called social security, NOT a "how to become a millionaire" scheme to
benefit the wealthy
rose...@idt.net
Thanks for this post, you dumb bastard
Maybe the dumbissimo will "explain" to you what he said by sending you
pictures.
You sure the fuck couldn't understand plain english
Rich Tyndall
> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
years old
won't ever see a dime of the SS money they paid in to the "general fund
pool"..
Maybe you never heard of the "Boomers". There are just too many of us. With
the cost of staying-alive medicine and elder care going up about 20% a year,
the system will go bust and be shut down by 2011. I hope everyone between
30 and 55 has a fat 401-K /IRA account. That will enable you to eat until
you get sick.. After you get sick, that's all she wrote. We now have a
massive system (AKA care-givers) for harvesting money from old folks when
they get sick. I've seem them at work. You just can't believe how fast they
can burn through two or three hundred thousand dollars.
(And the care they 'give' looks a heck of a lot like abuse and neglect in
many cases).
Sorry about the rant.
Rich<>
Frank Ney
Paul <nos...@nospam.net> to write:
>I wish Social Security was DESTROYED and replaced with PRIVATE ACCOUNTS
>using my would be SS "contributions". That way the DEMOCRATS wont RAID
>my SS trust fund and spend it on handouts to pander for votes.
Like that would make it safe. There was a proposal about five years ago,
championed by democraps, to require all retirement and investment funds to
put 15% of their holdings into Section 8 projects.
Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B LPWV NRA(L) ProvNRA GOA CCRKBA JPFO
--
"God, protect me from politicians who are determined to be seen doing
something, no matter how poorly reasoned and counter-productive."
Just Say No to Gestapo Tactics http://www.freespeech.org/justsayno
Abuses by the BATF http://www.hamnet.net/~n4zhg/batfabus.html
L. Neil Smith for President! http://www.lns2000.org
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Stung Unnuts
chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
> which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
> next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
It is pretty amazing, isn't it?
Think about this;
Every day, the average e-mail recipient gets at least 10 spam e-mails a
day. Three are for porn, two are trying to get you to win a million
dollars, and the rest are promising you another million for "just
sending e-mail." Every day, we are bombarded by assholes who swear that
you can place tiny little classified ads, or buy a dozen homes with no
money down and bad credit and become a millionaire. There are also all
kinds of pleas asking you to buy this stock or that, just because it
has the letter "e" on it, or the word "tech" in the name.
Every damn day, it seems, we hear of someone falling for some scam, in
which they are told to call a 900 number for $500 a minute to collect a
$10,000 grand prize, and Publishers Clearing House actually lost a
lawsuit, in which idiots actually believed they had already won $10
million, and made purchases, so that they could collect it.
It is in this atmosphere that the Bushbaby is asking the general public
to tke 1/3 of their Social Security taxes and invest them. I can
already see the organized crime folks licking their chops on this one.
>
> Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
> at the polls this November!
Yeah, and while we're at it, let's get Gore to promise to register
every fucking gun in the country, and license every gun owner.
Biff
--
Is that your dick, or are you about to shoot me??
Stung Unnuts
rc...@psu.edu (Roger Shouse) wrote:
> In article <3922D7...@ix.netcom.com> chud...@ix.netcom.com
writes:
>
> >Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
>
> >which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> >on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> >interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
>
invest up
> to 2% of their SS contribution in private accounts.
No, that's two percentage POINTS. Or, about one-third. You should start
paying attention.
> There is no provision for
> cutting SS taxes.
So, taking 1/3 of the taxes that people would normally be paying off
the table doesn't constitute a cut. That's some fucking right winger
logic!
> Workers don't lose anything. In fact, they gain from being
> able to tap in to higher returns on their own money.
>
Yeah, and we all know that there is no risk in the stock market. Just
today, I heard that "losers outnumbered gainers" in the market. What
are we going to do when, say 20% of the people who engage in htis
deception lose the money they invested? Are we going to make it up with
higher taxes on everyone else? Of course we will. Why is the current
FICA tax so high right now? Because of inflation. Because inflation
increased more than the tax collections. Now, you're taking one-third
of the taxes off the table, and then allowing the individuals to invest
them, hoping that no one will make a bad investment. That's just plain
stupid, even for rightwing scum. Even if the market goes up, on
average, some people lose. Now, what will he put into place for those
who lose?
> > Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
> >next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
>
> Another hoot.
We have Woodsy Owl here. Lots of feathers, but a brain the size of a
pea.
>
> > Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
> >at the polls this November!
>
> Have fun trying. So far, the public loves Bush's plan. So do several
leading
> Democrat Senators!
Fuck 'em. When push comes to shove, and the truth comes out, people
will wise up. Just as the right wing shitheads couldn't use Medicare
money for a tax hike, no one's going to sit still for this scheme.
TCarr13397
>
>
>>Yea a plan where you pay in hundreds of thousands of dollars for 40 years
>and
>>get back less than 1/4 of the amount that would have been there if you just
>put
>>it in CD's
>Is called social security, NOT a "how to become a millionaire" scheme to
>benefit the wealthy
>
Stay to your strong suit..Name calling
You are out of your league when you attempt to actually discuss a topic like
SS
Return on your SS "investment" is around 2%. IF the government allowed you
to invest even a portion of your tax dollars in a no risk t- bill you would get
5-6%
Compounded (I know thats a big word for you, but llok it up in your real
dictionary) that would yield hundreds of thousands of dollars for median ( not
rich) wage earners.
Now follow your usual MO and run away
T.Carr
TCarr13397
>In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
>Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
How do you define "success" did algore tell you that SS was the most
successful program?
Bush promised no change to current and near term retirees.
>Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
>which goes to pay current beneficiaries
Did you coinviently "forget" the matching contribution that your employer
makes?
> AND to buy EXISTING bonds
>on the open market
That was 1 option Bush suggested that individuals could pursue
>( which retires public debt
Wrong. It only transfers the debt from SS to a private bondholder
> Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
>next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
Proof? Since you dont seem to recognize the employer SS contribution, its
doubtful that your 1 trillion claim will stand
> Let's smash the illiterate
What ivy league college did YOU graduate from?
>bribetaking,
That is a serious accusation. IF evidence exists to support your allegation,
Bush could be impeached and convicted.
If not, you are aware of the penalties for slander?
>SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
>at the polls this November!
Post your "analysis". Using the typical democrat scare tactics isnt going to
work this time.
A majority of voters under 55 support the Bush proposal.
Doing what your guy proposes(??) is a risky scheme
T.Carr
Lvis
permitted NOT to contribute
ONE THIRD of their 6.2% Retiremewnt FICA, just gfrom WHERE is
that money shortage gonna be made up from?
at the racetrack, what happens to your mortgage debt??
Republicans are the DUMBEST people on God's Green Earth."
carl, YOU must be counting YOURSELF as a Republican because YOU are dumber
than a bucket of shit. GW is proposing 2% of the TOTAL 15.4% collections,
you ignorant asswipe, NOT 2% of taxable wages.
Geeesh, what an ignorant douchebag. 2% may not be that much with respect to
the individual, but it amounts to some serious dollars at the national level
and YOUR
socialist gawds are not about to allow any of their power to be given back
to the citizens.
2% is a good starting point and BTW, nobody said shit about blowing it at
the racetrack, YOU lying liberal bedwetting loser. How the hell is anyone
supposed to carry on an intelligent discussion with someone as stupid as YOU
and so prone to lying?
Lvis.
Michael Zarlenga
: In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
: Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
: Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
: which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
: on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
: interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
The "retirement contribution" for each worker into FICA
is 12.4%, not 6.2%.
--
-- Mike Zarlenga
Million Mom March motto:
"It's better to be a victim than to be armed."
kingsman
use that to pay for the shortfall, thus making our non Social Security taxes
cover the shortfalls in Social security.
Like that makes any sense.
"Michael Zarlenga" <zarl...@conan.ids.net> wrote in message
news:DBMU4.111567$vN5.14...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
Superdave the Wonderchemist
: >>>>> Superdave the Wonderchemist writes:
: Superdave> chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: >> In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
: >> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
: >> Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
: >> which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
: >> on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
: >> interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
: Superdave> Hey dodohead, it is 2 points out of 12.4%, not 6.2%, that's just under
: 1> 6. Besides all the money IS YOURS!!! It can even be passed on to your
: Superdave> family when you bite the big one. It will also NOT cause any reduction in
: Superdave> current payouts.
: What does it do to future benefits of those that choose
: to invest this sliver of the money?
That is an obvious lead question, Andrew. You can't fool me, I know how
to teach.
Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll answer.
You get a -1.5% annual rate of return (adjusted for inflation estimates
and based on current estimates from the trustees) on 10.4% of your
income and a 7% rate of return (based on historical performance of the
US stock market over the past 200 years) on 2% of your income.
This is a good math question. After 40 years of working, which one wins?
BTW you get the regular government SS bennies from the 10.4%, and you get
to keep the returns from the 2% for yourself or even will it to your
spouse or children, just like a 401(k).
bob
rose...@idt.net wrote:
> gis...@cs.comYOMAMA (THE GENERALISSIMO) wrote:
>
> >Yea a plan where you pay in hundreds of thousands of dollars for 40 years and
> >get back less than 1/4 of the amount that would have been there if you just put
> >it in CD's
> Is called social security, NOT a "how to become a millionaire" scheme to
> benefit the wealthy
I see. Then we can count on you to tell the elderly in this country to stop whining
for more benefits/colas/etc since this isn't supposed to be making them wealthy,
right?
Bob
Harold
wrote:
[deleted]
>The problems with Bush's plan have to do with what happens a few years from now
>when the pile of bonds is gone and benefits are exceeding revenues. Will he raise
>taxes or lower benefits? And how will he do it?
What we will have to do then anyway, pay it out of taxes.
Regards, Harold
----------
"I am for Socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing
the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I
seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied
class, and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism
is the goal."
----Roger Baldwin, quoted by Peggy Lamson, in "Roger Baldwin:
Founder of the American Civil Liberties Union," Houghton Mifflin,
1976.
Harold
>chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
[deleted]
>> Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
>> next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
>>
>> Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
>> at the polls this November!
>
>I wish Social Security was DESTROYED and replaced with PRIVATE ACCOUNTS
>using my would be SS "contributions". That way the DEMOCRATS wont RAID
>my SS trust fund and spend it on handouts to pander for votes. Even If
>I buy US TReasury bonds instead of stocks, I'll get 6%+ return per year
>instead of the measly 2%.
>
>I wish I bought IBM stock with SS funds 10 years ago.
As someone already pointed out, if we ever have a Democrat President
and a Democrat Congress, you would not be able to control your own
401K or Keogh accounts. There was a Democrat proposal to set up a
government bureaucracy which would decide "socially beneficial"
investments.
>BTW, ask Gore how his retirement is funded, betcha he has a 401K or IRA
>or Roth invested in stocks and/or mutual funds. WANNA
>BET?????????????????????/
He is independently wealthy, the beneficiary of a blind trust set up
many years ago
Harold
wrote:
[deleted]
> Superdave> BTW you get the regular government SS bennies from the 10.4%, and you get
> Superdave> to keep the returns from the 2% for yourself or even will it to your
> Superdave> spouse or children, just like a 401(k).
>
>So the answer to my question is that the SS benefits are
>pro-rated. It seemed to me that some had been indicating
>that the benefits would be unchanged, so that everyone would
>invest.
I think this is an incremental plan, even though that is not stated.
In other words, as public confidence and acceptance is generated for
the 2% investment, the amount would be increased.
The turning of the American public into capitalists does not warm the
heart of everyone.
RJMartin
> In his bizarre plan to DESTROY Social Security ( the most succesful
> Federal program ever ) W Bush will SLASH your benefits by over 1/3!!
>
> Why? Because he removes 1/3 of your 6.2% Retirement contribution,
> which goes to pay current beneficiaries AND to buy EXISTING bonds
> on the open market ( which retires public debt and also has the
> interest accrue in the SS Trust Fund, which becomes REAL ).
"1/3 of your 6.2%"???? Excuse me but 12.4% is being 'contributed' (a most
foul term), 6.2% out of our paychecks, another 6.2% not included in our
paychecks but stripped away from our employers because we work there.
>
> Bush also takes ONE TRILLION out of these two areas over the
> next ten years to pay transition costs of his Voodoo Two scheme.
Typical experience for moderate wage earner investing an amount equivalent
to Social [In]Security:
age----salary-------------------5%-----------10%----------------15%
16-----$300.00--------------$36.00----------$36.00------------$36.00
17-----$2,745.83----------$367.30---------$369.10----------$370.90
18-----$5,191.67--------$1,008.67-------$1,029.01-------$1,049.54
19-----$7,637.50--------$1,975.60-------$2,048.41-------$2,123.47
20-----$10,083.33-------$3,284.38-------$3,463.25-------$3,651.99
21-----$12,529.17-------$4,952.10-------$5,313.08-------$5,703.28
22-----$14,975.00-------$6,996.70-------$7,641.39--------$8,355.78
23-----$17,420.83-------$9,437.04------$10,496.02------$11,699.64
24-----$19,866.67------$12,292.89------$13,929.63------$15,838.59
25-----$22,312.50------$15,585.03------$18,000.09------$20,891.88
26-----$24,758.33------$19,335.28------$22,771.10------$26,996.66
27-----$27,204.17------$23,566.55------$28,312.71------$34,310.66
28-----$29,650.00------$28,302.88------$34,701.98------$43,015.25
29-----$32,095.83------$33,569.52------$42,023.68------$53,319.04
30-----$34,541.67------$39,393.00------$50,371.04------$65,461.90
31-----$36,987.50------$45,801.15------$59,846.65------$79,719.68
32-----$39,433.33------$52,823.20------$70,563.31------$96,409.64
33-----$41,879.17------$60,489.86------$82,645.14-----$115,896.58
34-----$44,325.00------$68,833.36------$96,228.66-----$138,600.07
35-----$46,770.83------$77,887.52-----$111,464.02-----$165,002.58
36-----$49,216.67------$87,687.90-----$128,516.43-----$195,658.97
37-----$51,662.50------$98,271.80-----$147,567.57-----$231,207.31
38-----$54,108.33-----$109,678.39-----$168,817.33-----$272,381.41
39-----$56,554.17-----$121,948.81-----$192,485.56-----$320,025.12
40-----$59,000.00-----$135,126.25-----$218,814.11-----$375,108.89
Amount credited by SSA------------$78,000 in report sent by them. Compare
that to the $135,000 if invested at only 5%. For comparison, the stock
market average over that time is ~12%.
Now tell me how great and secure Social Security is.
In other words, you could retire at age 40 and live moderately off the
interest if it wasn't for the worthless SS system.
> Let's smash the illiterate, bribetaking, SS-DESTROYING Idiot Bush
> at the polls this November!
How about you get smashed that night and forget to vote.
RJMartin
news:8fum4v$d1t$1...@news.tamu.edu...
>
> And this has to do with talk.politics.guns....How?
>
Nothing yet, but should the gun-grabbers prevail I wouldn't count on SS
surviving the outcome.
Frank Hurst
prevail, what with the 2nd Revolutionary war and all.
--
_______________________________________________
Randy Douglas wrote:
I don't know what you people are talking about... as usual...
chud...@ix.netcom.com
72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
Social Security benefits.
The bogus "investment return" figures posted by the anti-SS
crowd are always speculations on the future. WRONG speculations.
If I told you SS was solvent FOR THE NEXT CENTURY, without
reducing benefits promised today by ONE PENNY, would you buy that?
Well - it is TRUE, by the simple expedient of investing 100%
of the FICA surpluses in existing Treasury bonds bought on the
open market, and placing those REAL assets into a REAL trust fund.
But of course, you can't do that is you hand the WORKER-CONTRIBUTED
surpluses to the rich, in the form of tax cuts. Like Bush
does.
Michael Zarlenga
: No, YOU tell ME what the rate of return was for someone now
: 72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
: over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
: Social Security benefits.
Ponzi schemes always screw the late comers while enriching the
early comers. It's the classic fiscal scam.
Gary Lantz
<chud...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3924A1...@ix.netcom.com...
> No, YOU tell ME what the rate of return was for someone now
> 72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
> over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
> Social Security benefits.
>
> crowd are always speculations on the future. WRONG speculations.
>
> If I told you SS was solvent FOR THE NEXT CENTURY, without
> reducing benefits promised today by ONE PENNY, would you buy that?
>
> Well - it is TRUE, by the simple expedient of investing 100%
> of the FICA surpluses in existing Treasury bonds bought on the
> open market, and placing those REAL assets into a REAL trust fund.
>
> But of course, you can't do that is you hand the WORKER-CONTRIBUTED
> surpluses to the rich, in the form of tax cuts. Like Bush
> does.
And/or the same idea is true when you have a government providing these
funds to themselves at a 2% interest. Can you imagine how solvent these
funds would be if the prime rate had been applied to these borrowings by the
government? Why you have the government only providing 2% to this Social
Security Mutual Fund is appalling . This is the largest mutual fund in the
country. Somehow the congress only sees fit to provide the rich with prime
rate interest for use of their money. The last I looked it was all the
same. When will congress start paying the Social Security funds a going
rate like somewhere between the 6.5% prime rate and the 25% rates they allow
banks to charge to the poor.
Gary Lantz
> In alt.fan.rush-limbaugh chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> : No, YOU tell ME what the rate of return was for someone now
> : 72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
> : over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
> : Social Security benefits.
>
> early comers. It's the classic fiscal scam.
>
> --
> -- Mike Zarlenga
If they had a ponzi scheme for brains, you were one of the last people in.
bob
Gary Lantz wrote:
> Why you have the government only providing 2% to this Social
> Security Mutual Fund is appalling . This is the largest mutual fund in the
> country.
"Mutual Fund"? LOL, you're a blithering idiot. Social Security is NOT a mutual
fund, you moron.
Bob
chud...@ix.netcom.com
my entitre lifetime. I am now 65.
And SS has paid the promised benefits AND MUCH MORE for all
that while. and is projected to be solven thru 2037 and longer.
You be WRONG, boy.
Michael Zarlenga wrote:
>
> In alt.fan.rush-limbaugh chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> : No, YOU tell ME what the rate of return was for someone now
> : 72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
> : over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
> : Social Security benefits.
>
> Ponzi schemes always screw the late comers while enriching the
> early comers. It's the classic fiscal scam.
>
> --
> -- Mike Zarlenga
>
chud...@ix.netcom.com
in the given example.
Paul wrote:
>
> chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > No, YOU tell ME what the rate of return was for someone now
> > 72 years old who contributed $22,000 to Social Security
> > over his working lifetime, and now receives $1050 PER MONTH in
> > Social Security benefits.
> >
>
> That's not a return, that's just a pure governement handout. I'll tell you my
> REAL return. I got my SS benefits statement
> and so far contributed over $60,000. In 30+ years from now, I *may*, because
> they include all the weasle words, e.g. Laws may change, etc, get $800 per month
> IF and only IF I continue to work for the next 30 years at the same salary level
> year after year after year.........after year.
>
> And if I croak the hour before I'm elgible for my first SS check (whoopee), my
> heirs get squat.
>
> In a 401K or IRA type account, heirs get the entire fund as assets of the
> estate. If your 72 yo $1050 a month someone dies tommorrow, he/she wont get
> squat from his principle of $22,000.
Dick D
<chud...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39262D...@ix.netcom.com...
> You forgot to tell us what the rate of return was
> in the given example.
>
>
> Paul wrote:
> >
> > chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > That's not a return, that's just a pure governement handout. I'll tell
you my
> > REAL return. I got my SS benefits statement
> > and so far contributed over $60,000. In 30+ years from now, I *may*,
because
> > they include all the weasle words, e.g. Laws may change, etc, get $800
per month
> > IF and only IF I continue to work for the next 30 years at the same
salary level
> > year after year after year.........after year.
I'm assuming that you're thinking of retiring at 65 and he have 30 years
left to work, that means you're somewhere around 35 and you've already put
$60 thousand into social security? You must make some amount of money.
THE GENERALISSIMO
>From: chud...@ix.netcom.com
>Date: 5/19/00 11:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <39262D...@ix.netcom.com>
>
>The RW Nutcases have been calling SS a }Ponzi Scheme" for
>my entitre lifetime. I am now 65.
>
> And SS has paid the promised benefits AND MUCH MORE for all
>that while. and is projected to be solven thru 2037 and longer.
And it will continue to for several more years. Then the people paying will be
screwed. But in the finest of AARP fashion you are saying "FUCK MY KIDS" Real
nice geezer.
"I did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski in any way, shape, or form"
Clintons affidavit to the court that prompted his lawyer to respond in a letter
to the court: "I can no longer vouch for the veracity of my clients statements"
Harold
>The RW Nutcases have been calling SS a }Ponzi Scheme" for
>my entitre lifetime. I am now 65.
> And SS has paid the promised benefits AND MUCH MORE for all
>that while. and is projected to be solven thru 2037 and longer.
That's funny. Let's look at your "logic" here.
1. People have been calling SS a ponzi scheme for a long time,.
2. You are 65 and SS is paying *you*.
Conclusion:
Its not a Ponzi scheme.
I am not surprised that the lack of logical thought escaped you.
Regards, Harold
-------
"I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground:
That 'all powers not delegated to the United States, by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States or to the people' (10th Amendment). To take a single step
beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of
Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no
longer susceptible to any definition."
-- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to George Washington,15 February, 1791
Bill Bonde
Harold wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 May 2000 02:14:08 -0400, chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >The RW Nutcases have been calling SS a }Ponzi Scheme" for
> >my entitre lifetime. I am now 65.
>
> > And SS has paid the promised benefits AND MUCH MORE for all
> >that while. and is projected to be solven thru 2037 and longer.
>
> That's funny. Let's look at your "logic" here.
>
> 1. People have been calling SS a ponzi scheme for a long time,.
>
> 2. You are 65 and SS is paying *you*.
>
> Conclusion:
>
> Its not a Ponzi scheme.
>
> I am not surprised that the lack of logical thought escaped you.
>
Wow. OK, let's recast you 'logic' with a different topic and see if it
still makes sense:
1. People have been claiming for a long time that the Sun will get very
hot and the Earth's oceans will boil away.
2. You are 65 and the Earth's oceans have not boiled away.
Conclusion:
The Sun will never get real hot and boil the Earth's oceans away, we
have nothing to fear.
Harold
wrote:
That does not follow, just as the conclusion I gave to the previous
poster does not follow.
Are you new to the thread? Or just thick?
In your life, I would say that is true. What are you going to do,
sell your ocean front land?
Regards, Harold
-------
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make
things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they
serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed
man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
----Thomas Jefferson, Literary Commonplace Book
Harold
<johnny...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Harold wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 May 2000 02:14:08 -0400, chud...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>> >The RW Nutcases have been calling SS a }Ponzi Scheme" for
>> >my entitre lifetime. I am now 65.
>>
>> > And SS has paid the promised benefits AND MUCH MORE for all
>> >that while. and is projected to be solven thru 2037 and longer.
>>
>> That's funny. Let's look at your "logic" here.
>>
>> 1. People have been calling SS a ponzi scheme for a long time,.
>>
>> 2. You are 65 and SS is paying *you*.
>>
>> Conclusion:
>>
>> Its not a Ponzi scheme.
>>
>> I am not surprised that the lack of logical thought escaped you.
>>
>> Regards, Harold
>>
>
>At first I didnt think anyone could be as stupid as you, know I now.
I guess I was not clear.
If you actually read the "logic" I posted, you would see that it does
not make any sense. It is, in a word, stupid.
I was in error to think that was an obvious point. My mistake.
Lvis
even though he didn't put anything in it. He won't be
around long if he visits Vegas.
LZ"
I'll chip in for his ticket. Who knows, maybe he'll pull a 'Kangas' while
he's there.
Lvis.
--
"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical
Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of
individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had
that freedom would use it responsibly.... [However, now] there's a lot of
irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much freedom. When
personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it."
-- President Bill Clinton, 3-22-94, MTV's "Enough is Enough"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't believe you can find any evidence of the fact that I have
changed government policy *solely* because of a contribution."
-- President Clinton, March 07, 1997