Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
Doug Bashford
U.S. ally compared Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi
war crimes on Sunday
===================
Security Council condemned Israel's "excessive" use of force.
===================
Israel Attacks Gaza
Voice of America - 3 hours ago
Fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants in Gaza has
killed more than 100 Palestinians and two Israeli soldiers since
Wednesday.
Israel intensified operations against Gaza's Hamas
rulers in response to rocket attacks on southern Israel that have
killed one Israeli and wounded several others in recent days.
=================== Since Wednesday ??
Why is the Mainstream Media is backpaging this story?
It's not like America isn't interested in Israel.
Bet yer bippy this will be hot tomorrow morning from 6:00 AM:
www.kpfa.org/listen/
Easy dial-up listening KPFA's Live mp3 stream
Listener Sponsored Free Speech Radio
KPFA, 94.1 FM in Berkeley, is the first community supported radio
station in the USA ... Listen Online ·
6:00 am DEMOCRACY NOW!
7:00 am MORNING SHOW <--- 2 hours
9:00 am DEMOCRACY NOW!
===================
Saudi compares Israel Gaza offensive to Nazi crimes
Reuters - 11 hours ago
March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. ally Saudi Arabia compared Israel's
offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi war crimes on Sunday and
called on the international community to stop what it called the
"mass killings" of Palestinians.
Israeli forces killed 61 people in Hamas-ruled Gaza on Saturday,
the bloodiest day for Palestinians since an uprising against
Israeli occupation began in 2000. Almost half the dead were
civilians, including children.
The U.N. Security Council on Sunday urged Israel and the
Palestinians to cease all violence in Gaza after it condemned
Israel's "excessive" use of force.
"Saudi Arabia, which condemns the Israeli war crimes against the
Palestinian people and the threats of Israeli officials to
transform Gaza into an inferno, sees that Israel is simulating
through these actions the Nazi war crimes," the Saudi official
news agency SPA reported.
"Therefore, Saudi Arabia urges the international community,
peace-sponsoring countries and the international Quartet to work
to curb the Israeli military machine and stop it from carrying
out mass killings and destruction against the Palestinian people
and their properties." The Saudi statement appeared to refer to a
warning by Israel's deputy defence minister that Gazans risked a
"shoah" -- a Hebrew word for holocaust -- if rocket fire into
Israel did not stop. Aides later said he meant disaster and not
holocaust.
"Saudi Arabia watches with utmost concern what is happening in
Gaza; the killing of children, women and elderly, the destruction
of houses over their owners' heads, the intimidation at the hands
of Israel's military machine," SPA said. "The kingdom strongly
condemns these actions that go against international law and
humanitarian norms ... and contradict what Israel says about its
desire for peace."
Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said on Sunday Israel needed
to prepare for a possible escalation in Gaza. The Jewish state,
which lost two soldiers in Saturday's fighting, has pushed deep
into Gaza in an effort to stop Palestinian militants from firing
rockets into southern Israel. The offensive was launched after a
rocket killed an Israeli on Wednesday.
Saudi Arabia, a major Arab power broker which attended a
U.S.-sponsored peace conference in Annapolis in November, renewed
calls for a comprehensive Middle East peace deal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL02388572
===========
Students rally against Israel Gaza offensive - 9 hours ago
The students burned US and Israeli flags and shouted slogans
calling for Arab governments to get Israel to stop its attacks
on the population of the Gaza ...
==================
6:00 am DEMOCRACY NOW!
7:00 am MORNING SHOW <---
9:00 am DEMOCRACY NOW!
The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.
Doug Bashford
about:
Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
FactsOfIsrael.com: Boycott against National Public Radio (NPR)
due ...
Boycott against National Public Radio (NPR) due to its
anti-Israel bias. The Jerusalem Post ( www.jpost.com) makes
the excellent point that anyone supporting ...
www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000382.html - 46k -
--------
WBUR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since 2001, WBUR has lost more than $1 million in contributions
due to a boycott ...who say NPR's coverage of the Middle East
tilts against Israel.[1] ....
This group, CAMERA, has demonstrated outside National Public
Radio (NPR) stations in 33 cities in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBUR - 47k - --------
j. - NPR reacts to charges of anti-Israel bias in coverage
"If there's a boycott, then it's too late," he said. NPR's
outreach to the Jewish ... their funding because of what they saw
as an anti-Israel bias in NPR. ...
www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/18438/edition_id/369/format/html/displaystory.html
- 27k - --------
Dhimmi Watch: Evangelical Lutheran Church in America considers
..
"US Lutherans consider Israel boycott," by Haviv Rettig for the
Jerusalem Post: ..... palestinian rubbish [npr] and palestinian
broadcasting Systems [pbs]. ...
www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/017798.php - 67k -
--------
Israel News: Palestinian cause: a liberal non-dilemma
Today there are many such fools and knaves, broadcasting on NPR
and the BBC and the ... Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and
Cultural Boycott of Israel ...
www.zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2007/07/palestinian-cause-liberal-non-dilemma.html
- 50k -
Pro-Israeli lobby is silencing dissent:
On the contrary, the pro-Israel lobby, joined by the Israeli
government, ... associated with CAMERA organized a boycott of
local NPR affiliate WBUR. ...
http://sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=node/view/5079 - 81k -
==============
FactsOfIsrael.com News, Comments and Links
Boycott against National Public Radio (NPR) due to its
anti-Israel bias Comment
The Jerusalem Post (www.jpost.com) makes the excellent point that
anyone supporting Israel's war against Palestinian terrorism
should not help NPR (National Public Radio):
Although CAMERA, the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East
Reporting in America, has not initiated or sponsored boycott
campaigns against any national or regional newspapers, there has
been a call to suspend financial support for one media outlet
until its harmful anti-Israel bias ends.
That institution is National Public Radio. [...]
Are Jewish listeners under obligation to provide both the
involuntary support to NPR entailed in their taxes allotted to
the network and additional donations in response to the constant
entreaties by station managers and NPR officials?
Are Jewish listeners duty-bound to send checks to help
finance programming in which grave allegations are routinely
leveled at Israel without a single Israeli given the right of
response?
I had been a staunch supporter of NPR for years, donating money
2-3 times a year - like thousands of people across the nation, I
strongly condemn NPR's anti-Israel bias and their intrinsic
support of Palestinian terror.
Please do not participate in NPR's pledge drives and contact your
local representatives - urge them to cut any government funding
assigned to NPR. Here are a few additional examples of NPR's
anti-Israel bias:
The deliberate killing of unarmed civilians is terrorism
Stop supporting National Public Radio (NPR)
National Public Radio supports Palestinian terrorism
NPR proud of Palestinians that murdered 11 Israeli athletes in
the Olympic games of Munich, 1972
I copy the full article below.
David Hartung
> March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. ally Saudi Arabia compared Israel's
> offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi war crimes on Sunday and
> called on the international community to stop what it called the
> "mass killings" of Palestinians.
Sometimes I think that it is time for the USA to do the same thing to
Saudi Arabia that we have done to Iraq, and to actually do what the left
is accusing us if, take over the oil fields, and use them for our benefit.
Obviously The above is hyperbole, to a certain extent, but Saudi Arabia
is really beginning to try my patience.
SlackJaw
>
> U.S. ally compared Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi
> war crimes on Sunday
> ===================
> Security Council condemned Israel's "excessive" use of force.
> ===================
> Israel Attacks Gaza
> Voice of America - 3 hours ago
> Fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants in Gaza has
> killed more than 100 Palestinians and two Israeli soldiers since
> Wednesday.
What a tradgety - those poor two soliders.
Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
--
-
A Republican is someone who works all day so you don't have to.
pg
>
> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
Amen to that !!
V-for-Vendicar
"David Hartung" <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote
> Sometimes I think that it is time for the USA to do the same thing to
> Saudi Arabia that we have done to Iraq, and to actually do what the left
> is accusing us if, take over the oil fields, and use them for our benefit.
Well that was certianly the NeoCon plan. But like everything else Bush
puts his hands to, it was a complete and utter failure that will cost
AmeriKKKa close to 5 trillion dollars by the time it is all accounted for.
So long suckers....
V-for-Vendicar
"Doug Bashford" <pla...@always.edu> wrote
> U.S. ally compared Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi
> war crimes on Sunday
Clearly.
Fortunately, Israel will soon be wiped of the map of the middle east.
3AMphonecalls
Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
PLo, hamas, and hezbollah to stop terrorist activities against Israel?
They have been doing it for years, and when Israel acts to defend
itself, Israelis get blamed. The many peace processes have usually
ended with Israel giving up the land that they had to pacify the
terrorists. Experts say that those groups will not stop until Israel is
gone. The agreements that started with Israel giving up the golan
heights and the west bank and some of the other parts of their land,
were wrong. Our Presidents and others who brokered the agreements for
Israel to give up their land were wrong because that is not what the
terrorists want. They want it all. We cannot have a President who
does not help defend Israel. We cannot have any more agreements that
means Israel gives up their land. They have been going it alone for
many years now, and I expect they will defend themselves no matter what
the rest of stupid world thinks. Viva Israel!
David Hartung
> In message news:GuydnQxc4ZUfylba...@comcast.com, SlackJaw is
>
>> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
>
>
>> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
>
> Resolutions?
Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
Answer?
None.
David Hartung
So, you wish to finish what Hitler began?
3975 Dead
Aren't you the same clown who says the US was right to invade Iraq
because Saddam "defied the UN"?
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News...@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essay...@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, John Q. Public said about:
Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
> In message news:GuydnQxc4ZUfylba...@comcast.com, SlackJaw is
> alleged to have said:
>
> > Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
>
> Please produce evidence that those killed were terrorists.
>
> > Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
>
> How would that be? By lying about its nukes or by defying hundreds of UN
> Resolutions?
But didn't we supposedly invade Iraq for defying a UN Resolution?
Yer not suggesting moral relativity, are you?
Doug Bashford
David Hartung said about:
>
> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
Uhm...it created Israel?
Doug Bashford
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0600, David Hartung said
> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
Since Israel has the second richest lobby and is the
most feared lobby in America...Hmmm...none I guess.
The number One most powerfull is the insurance
industry (AARP). (follow the money)
Google Results about 326,000 for
"most powerful" lobby OR lobbiests OR feared.
http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22most+powerful%22+lobby+OR+lobbiests+OR++feared&btnG=Search
first 3 hits:
National Capital Insiders Vote AIPAC, Israel's American Lobby ...
The second most powerful lobby in America certainly is powerful
enough to dominate U.S. Middle East policy. In fact, if
presidents and congressmen wanted to ...
www.washington-report.org/backissues/0198/9801065.htm - 20k -
The Israel Lobby
AIPAC is widely regarded as the most powerful foreign-policy
lobby in Washington. Its 60000 members shower millions of dollars
on hundreds of members of ...
www.thenation.com/doc/20020610/massing - 36k -
WASHINGTON'S POWER 25 WHICH PRESSURE GROUPS ARE BEST AT ...
... most powerful interest groups can barely be found inside the
Beltway. ... of Independent Business, better known as the
small-business lobby (No. ...
money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1997/12/08/234927/index.htm
- 44k -
Isn't being American great!?
But vote anyway, it feelsgood.
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 3AMphonecalls
said about:
Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>
> Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
> PLo, hamas, and hezbollah to stop terrorist activities against Israel?
> They have been doing it for years, and when Israel acts to defend
> itself, Israelis get blamed. The many peace processes have usually
> ended with Israel giving up the land that they had to pacify the
> terrorists.
You mean they "had to give up land" that they were
in illegal possesion of?
Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
territories? Clue. Find a map.
Map of Israel, districts, numbered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Israel_districts_numbered.png
> Experts say that those groups will not stop until Israel is
> gone.
Picture this. Idi Amin comes and takes over America's
East Coast and deports most the Americans and cuts off
food supply roads and generally makes life Hell, then starts
importing his own countymen and starts building illegal
settlements. Do you think the rest of America will
sing Idi Amin Happy Birthday as long as he remains?
I'm talking about Israel's post 1967 occupation.
> The agreements that started with Israel giving up the golan
> heights and the west bank and some of the other parts of their land,
> were wrong.
Huh!? Do you ever get any outside news?
> Our Presidents and others who brokered the agreements for
> Israel to give up their land
WHO's land!!??? You DO own a map, right?
You DO know that the occupied territories are not Israel, right!?
West Bank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The West Bank , also referred to as "Judea and Samaria", is
a landlocked territory on the west bank of the Jordan River in
the Middle East. Since 1967 most of the West Bank has been
under Israeli occupation.
During the Ottoman period, the West Bank formed part of the
Emirate of Transjordan, along with the East Bank or
Oultrejordain. After the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire in
1922, both sides of the Jordan formed the British Mandate of
Palestine.
...In 1948 ...the West Bank was captured and annexed by Jordan.
The 1949 Armistice Agreements defined its interim boundary. From
1948 until 1967, the area was under Jordanian rule. Jordan did
not officially relinquish its claim to the area until 1988. It
was captured by Israel [1][2] during the Six-Day War. With the
exception of East Jerusalem it was not annexed by Israel. Most
of the residents are Palestinians, although large numbers of
Israeli settlements have also been built in the region.
Origin of the name West Bank
The region did not have a separate existence until 1948–9, when
it was defined by the Armistice Agreement between Israel and
Jordan. The name "West Bank" was apparently first used by
Jordanians at the time of their annexation of the region, and has
become the most common name used in English and related
languages. The term literally means 'the West bank of the river
Jordan'; the Kingdom of Jordan being on the 'East bank' of this
same river Jordan.
Map of Israel region
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationIsrael.svg
> were wrong because that is not what the
> terrorists want. They want it all. We cannot have a President who
> does not help defend Israel. We cannot have any more agreements that
> means Israel gives up their land. They have been going it alone for
> many years now, and I expect they will defend themselves no matter what
> the rest of stupid world thinks. Viva Israel!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_strip
Gaza Strip
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is about 41 kilometers (25 mi) long, and between 6 and 12
kilometers (4–7.5 mi) wide, with a total area of 360 square
kilometers (139 sq mi).
The territory takes its name from Gaza, its main city. It has
about 1.4 million Palestinian (or Gazan) residents.[1]
The Gaza Strip is not recognized internationally as part of any
sovereign country. It is claimed by the Palestinian National
Authority as part of the Palestinian territories, though
following the June 2007 battle of Gaza, actual control of the
area is in the hands of the de facto government dominated by
Hamas.
Israel, which occupied the Gaza Strip from 1967-2005, still
controls the strip's airspace, territorial water and offshore
maritime access, as well as its side of the Gaza-Israeli border.
Israel also controls the population registry, entry of
foreigners, imports and exports as well as the tax
system[citation needed].
David Hartung
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0600, David Hartung
> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> John Q. Public wrote:
>>> In message news:GuydnQxc4ZUfylba...@comcast.com, SlackJaw is
>>> alleged to have said:
>>>
>>>> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
>>> Please produce evidence that those killed were terrorists.
>>>
>>>> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
>>> How would that be? By lying about its nukes or by defying hundreds of UN
>>> Resolutions?
>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>
>> Answer?
>>
>> None.
>
> Aren't you the same clown who says the US was right to invade Iraq
> because Saddam "defied the UN"?
No.
I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the 1991
Gulf War.
David Hartung
> David Hartung said about:
> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>
>
>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>
> Uhm...it created Israel?
The people of Israel.
David Hartung
> in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 3AMphonecalls
> said about:
>> Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
>> PLo, hamas, and hezbollah to stop terrorist activities against Israel?
>> They have been doing it for years, and when Israel acts to defend
>> itself, Israelis get blamed. The many peace processes have usually
>> ended with Israel giving up the land that they had to pacify the
>> terrorists.
>
> You mean they "had to give up land" that they were
> in illegal possesion of?
Illegal possesion?
Follow your own advice and learn how Israel came to possess the West
Bank and Gaza.
> Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
> territories? Clue. Find a map.
Israel, by right of conquest.
> Picture this. Idi Amin comes and takes over America's
> East Coast and deports most the Americans and cuts off
> food supply roads and generally makes life Hell, then starts
> importing his own countymen and starts building illegal
> settlements. Do you think the rest of America will
> sing Idi Amin Happy Birthday as long as he remains?
>
> I'm talking about Israel's post 1967 occupation.
You appear to have no idea what you are talking about.
> You DO know that the occupied territories are not Israel, right!?
Depends on how you look at it. Jordan has ceded the West Bank and Egypt
has ceded Gaza to Israel. This would seem to indicate that the two
territories are owned by Israel.
Kevin Cunningham
Gee, Davey, I would 'a thought you'd get heart burn when you found out
that most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis and that we gave the
Saudis a free ticket home. Their Bush's pals.
And your president, Maximum Leader Bush, knew that and attacked Iraq
any way. Now why did he attack Iraq? Got the countries confused?
Mitchell Holman
news:nNGdncQHi8JeaVba...@comcast.com:
> Doug Bashford wrote:
>> in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 3AMphonecalls
>> said about:
>
>>> Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
>>> PLo, hamas, and hezbollah to stop terrorist activities against Israel?
>>> They have been doing it for years, and when Israel acts to defend
>>> itself, Israelis get blamed. The many peace processes have usually
>>> ended with Israel giving up the land that they had to pacify the
>>> terrorists.
>>
>> You mean they "had to give up land" that they were
>> in illegal possesion of?
>
> Illegal possesion?
>
> Follow your own advice and learn how Israel came to possess the West
> Bank and Gaza.
>
>> Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
>> territories? Clue. Find a map.
>
> Israel, by right of conquest.
>
"Right of Conquest".
By that standard China has a "right" to Tibet,
Vietnam has a "right" to Cambodia, the USSR had
a "right" to Afghanistan and Germany had a "right"
to virtually all of Europe.
Sheesh...........
Mitchell Holman
Saddam's treaty obligations were to the UN, not the US.
Should the US now invade Israel over the UN sanctions
that IT is in violation of?
Mitchell Holman
Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time
out from bashing the UN and claiming we are not
bound by it to state that we were compelled by UN
resolutions to launch an unprovoked war against Iraq.
3975 Dead
<d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
Well, that's a cute little dance, Davy.
WHO did Saddam supposedly "obligate himself" to in 1991?
3975 Dead
Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
Kevin Cunningham
> 3975 Dead wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0600, David Hartung
> > <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> John Q. Public wrote:
> >>> alleged to have said:
>
> >>>> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
> >>> Please produce evidence that those killed were terrorists.
>
> >>>> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
> >>> How would that be? By lying about its nukes or by defying hundreds of UN
> >>> Resolutions?
> >> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>
> >> Answer?
>
> >> None.
>
> > Aren't you the same clown who says the US was right to invade Iraq
> > because Saddam "defied the UN"?
>
> No.
>
> I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the 1991
> Gulf War.
And we lost 4,000 brave men and women for that? I'm not impressed,
try again.
Kevin Cunningham
The Israelis have repeatedly crushed the West Bank and Gaza. There is
no education since no one has any money, I don't know how families
live there. This was done deliberately to destroy various Palestinian
groups which led to other, more violent Palestinian groups coming into
existence.
Look, if you back a person into a corner the only way they can get out
is to come directly at you. The Israelis have very successfully
backed the Palestinians into a corner and now the only way out is
directly at Israel. The Palestinians need a cause for hope, not
another reason to become a martyr.
What Israel needs is a competent government, a build up of Palestine,
both the Gaza strip and the West Bank and then substantive
negotiations. The Palestinians and the rest of the world will view
any negotiations now as abject surrender.
David Hartung
> On Mar 2, 8:28 pm, David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>> March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. ally Saudi Arabia compared Israel's
>>> offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi war crimes on Sunday and
>>> called on the international community to stop what it called the
>>> "mass killings" of Palestinians.
>> Sometimes I think that it is time for the USA to do the same thing to
>> Saudi Arabia that we have done to Iraq, and to actually do what the left
>> is accusing us if, take over the oil fields, and use them for our benefit.
>>
>> Obviously The above is hyperbole, to a certain extent, but Saudi Arabia
>> is really beginning to try my patience.
>
> Gee, Davey, I would 'a thought you'd get heart burn when you found out
> that most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis and that we gave the
> Saudis a free ticket home. Their Bush's pals.
I try very hard to deal in fact, you might try it sometime.
We did not give any bombers a free ticket home.
I am well aware that most of the 911 terrorists were Saudi, but as I
keep pointing out, there is a difference between the actions of
individuals and the actions of a state.
Al Qaeda is not am arm of the Saudi government, and their leader has
been disavowed by the Saudis and has had his citizenship stripped from him.
The comments I refer to above are statements by the Saudi government.
Saudi Arabia has never been an ally of Israel and their statements are
not surprising. That doesn't mean that I like it.
David Hartung
> In message news:TrCdnQ2uuKQebVba...@comcast.com, David
> Hartung is alleged to have said:
>> I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
>> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the 1991
>> Gulf War.
>
> As opposed to Israel which has refused to do that which it was obligated to
> do.
Exactly what obligations does Israel have?
David Hartung
Saddam's obligations were the result of our action, and were to us, as
much as to anyone else. it was our military which was engaged in the
"containment" which youare so proud of. The decision was our to make.
David Hartung
>> I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
>> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the 1991
>> Gulf War.
>
> Well, that's a cute little dance, Davy.
>
> WHO did Saddam supposedly "obligate himself" to in 1991?
Us.
David Hartung
What impresses you is of little importance to me.
David Hartung
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:59 -0600, David Hartung
> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>> David Hartung said about:
>>> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>
>>>
>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>> The people of Israel.
>
> Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
Which does not give the UN sovereign authority over Israel.
David Hartung
> In message news:tvOdnb0rzv3151ba...@comcast.com, David
>
> Answer:
>
> None.
Over the course of the years, both Jordan and Egypt ceded the West Bank
and Gaza to Israel. I would say that this gives them authority.
David Hartung
> David Hartung <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:nNGdncQHi8JeaVba...@comcast.com:
>
>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>> in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 3AMphonecalls
>>> said about:
>>>> Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
>>>> PLo, hamas, and hezbollah to stop terrorist activities against Israel?
>>>> They have been doing it for years, and when Israel acts to defend
>>>> itself, Israelis get blamed. The many peace processes have usually
>>>> ended with Israel giving up the land that they had to pacify the
>>>> terrorists.
>>> You mean they "had to give up land" that they were
>>> in illegal possesion of?
>> Illegal possesion?
>>
>> Follow your own advice and learn how Israel came to possess the West
>> Bank and Gaza.
>>
>>> Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
>>> territories? Clue. Find a map.
>> Israel, by right of conquest.
>>
>
>
> "Right of Conquest".
Right of conquest backed up by treaties in which Jordan and Israel ceded
the West bank and Gaza to Israel.
David Hartung
> What Israel needs is a competent government, a build up of Palestine,
> both the Gaza strip and the West Bank and then substantive
> negotiations. The Palestinians and the rest of the world will view
> any negotiations now as abject surrender.
Yes, Israel needs a government which will stand up to the rest of the
world, tell the terrorists that they can either work with the Israelis
or be destroyed. These terrorists have been trying to destroy Israel
since before Israel became a nation. Why on earth should Israel
"negotiate" with them?
Wolfie
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:59 -0600, David Hartung
> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>> David Hartung said about:
>>> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>
>>>
>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>> The people of Israel.
>
> Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
I think it's time for Jews everywhere, including Israel, to
decide what they stand for. Racist, Genocidal violence against
their impoverished neighbor, or, peace and prosperity for
all. Those standing for the latter need to speak up and
take control of their country before someone else has to
do it for them.
--
Wolfie
3975 Dead
No nation under UN treaty has a "right of conquest".
That's why both America and Israel both strenuously avoid the word
"occupation", because that would be admitting they are outlaw nations.
Which they are.
3975 Dead
<d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>3975 Dead wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:01 -0600, David Hartung
>> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
>>> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the 1991
>>> Gulf War.
>>
>> Well, that's a cute little dance, Davy.
>>
>> WHO did Saddam supposedly "obligate himself" to in 1991?
>
>Us.
Nope.
Try again.
3975 Dead
<d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>3975 Dead wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:59 -0600, David Hartung
>> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>> David Hartung said about:
>>>> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>> The people of Israel.
>>
>> Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
>
>Which does not give the UN sovereign authority over Israel.
Gosh, nobody said it did, chuckles.
But it has the authority to declare Israel outlaw for ghettoizing and
slaughtering a whole race of people.
Baldin Lee Pramer
> Doug Bashford wrote:
> > Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
> > territories? Clue. Find a map.
>
> Israel, by right of conquest.
So if the Chinese took part of the US, you would be OK with it. Right
of conquest and all. Same goes for when I chase you out of your home
and settle in. No, you can't have your house back. I took it fair and
square. Right of conquest. And hand over your wallet. If I can take
it, it's mine.
Friend, you are bankrupting yourself morally just to try to save face
from a bad decision you made earlier in the argument. Just change
tactics. It's a lot easier to admit you were wrong and begin arguing
along a new line.
BLP
David Hartung
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:04:42 -0600, David Hartung
> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> 3975 Dead wrote:
>>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:59 -0600, David Hartung
>>> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>> David Hartung said about:
>>>>> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>>> The people of Israel.
>>> Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
>> Which does not give the UN sovereign authority over Israel.
>
> Gosh, nobody said it did, chuckles.
You seem to.
> But it has the authority to declare Israel outlaw for ghettoizing and
> slaughtering a whole race of people.
I see, and what about the 60 plus years of attacks by Palestinian Arabs
on the people of Israel? Israel has always wanted to live in peace with
it's neighbors, but the neighbors seem to wan nothing more than to drive
the Israelis out.
David Hartung
Not even when the territory taken was taken in a defensive war?
David Hartung
Perhaps I chose my words poorly, but the fact remains that when Israel
took the West Bank and Gaza, it was in a defensive war. The people they
took the territory from were the aggressors. When the peace treaties
were signed, the aggressor countries ceded these territories to Israel.
Jeffrey Turner
> Doug Bashford wrote:
>
>> David Hartung said about: Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>
>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>
>>
>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>
>
> The people of Israel.
Which people of Israel? The UN created Israel.
--Jeff
--
"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without
formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to
deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree
odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government
whether Nazi or Communist."
- Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943
Jeffrey Turner
> V-for-Vendicar wrote:
>
>> "Doug Bashford" <pla...@always.edu> wrote
>>
>>> U.S. ally compared Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi
>>> war crimes on Sunday
>>
>> Clearly.
>>
>> Fortunately, Israel will soon be wiped of the map of the middle east.
>
> So, you wish to finish what Hitler began?
Israel wasn't created until after Hitler was dead.
3975 Dead
<d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
Really? That's going to be news to the 70 other countries that
participated in Operation Desert Storm.
David Hartung
Who instigated and led the campaign?
David Hartung
> David Hartung wrote:
>
>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>
>>> David Hartung said about: Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>
>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>
>>>
>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>
>>
>> The people of Israel.
>
> Which people of Israel? The UN created Israel.
The UN vote called for, or authorized(if you prefer) the partition of
Palestine. It was the Israeli people who created and fought for the
nation of Israel.
Clay
Whenever this discussion begins, is in progress and/or is becoming
hostile... some question(s) should be asked:
1) Was the creation of Israel moral, necessary, legal... etc?
2) Does Israel have a right to exist or does Mahmood Ahmedinajad have
the moral high ground?
My answers:
1) YES / YES / YES... etc.
2) YES / NO
-C-
Gary DeWaay
David Hartung
> On Mar 3, 11:18 am, David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 6:52 am, David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>> Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
>>>>> territories? Clue. Find a map.
>>>> Israel, by right of conquest.
>>> So if the Chinese took part of the US, you would be OK with it. Right
>>> of conquest and all. Same goes for when I chase you out of your home
>>> and settle in. No, you can't have your house back. I took it fair and
>>> square. Right of conquest. And hand over your wallet. If I can take
>>> it, it's mine.
>>> Friend, you are bankrupting yourself morally just to try to save face
>>> from a bad decision you made earlier in the argument. Just change
>>> tactics. It's a lot easier to admit you were wrong and begin arguing
>>> along a new line.
>> Perhaps I chose my words poorly, but the fact remains that when Israel
>> took the West Bank and Gaza, it was in a defensive war. The people they
>> took the territory from were the aggressors. When the peace treaties
>> were signed, the aggressor countries ceded these territories to Israel.
>
> Whenever this discussion begins, is in progress and/or is becoming
> hostile... some question(s) should be asked:
>
> 1) Was the creation of Israel moral, necessary, legal... etc?
Moral? I am not certain. The partition of Palestine was not done with
the support of the Palestinian Arabs.
Unnecessary? Again, I am not certain. The Allies supported the creation
of the Jewish state primarily as a means to assuage their consciences
for not doing more to prevent Hitler from trying to exterminate the
Jewish race. Other than this, there was no compelling reason outside of
the desires of some Jews, to create a Jewish State.
Legal? Absolutely. The UN was asked by the governing authority in
Palestine (Britain) to resolve the issue.
> 2) Does Israel have a right to exist or does Mahmood Ahmedinajad have
> the moral high ground?
Yes, Israel has the moral right to exist, and they have the moral right
to defend themselves from a group of people who wish to see them destroyed.
No Ahmedinajad does not have the moral high ground.
3975 Dead
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On 03 Mar 2008, John Q. Public said
about:
Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
> David Hartung is alleged to have said:
......snip
> > Exactly what obligations does Israel have?
>
> It is a signatory to UN 242 & 338. So let's start there.
ok
google Results about 457,000 for
UN Israel 242 338
United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242/338
ADVOCATING FOR ISRAEL
United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 were
passed (respectively) in the aftermaths of the 1967 and 1973
Arab-Israeli wars.
Resolution 242 (reaffirmed in 338), was designed to provide
the framework for peace negotiations based on a "land-for-peace"
formula and has become the foundation of all subsequent peace
treaties in the region. The resolutions called for the
withdrawal of Israeli forces "from territories of recent
conflict," an Arab "termination of all claims or states of
belligerency," and a recognition of the State of Israel and its
"right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries
free from threats or acts of force." The resolution also called
for "achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem." ...
www.adl.org/israel/advocacy/glossary/un_security_council.asp -
21k - ---------
Anti-Israel Bias at the U.N.: Resolutions 242 and 338
As 242 and 338 call for Israel's "withdrawal from territories,"
and not "the" territories as part of a peace agreement, it is
understood by Israel and the ...
www.adl.org/international/Israel_un_resolutions.asp?m_flipmode=3
- 31k - ---------
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
- Wikipedia, the ...
November 22, 1967 [.......many snips]
Interpretation
Broadly speaking, Israel interprets Resolution 242 as
calling for withdrawal from territories as part of a negotiated
peace and full diplomatic recognition. The extent of withdrawal
would come as a result of comprehensive negotiations that led to
durable peace.
Initially, most of the Arab world rejected Resolution
242. Today, the general Arab position is that the Resolution
calls for Israel to withdraw from all the territory it occupied
during the Six-Day War as a precondition to the start of peace
negotiations.
Both parties point to the wording of the resolution to
back their claims.
Supporters of the "Israeli viewpoint" focus on the operative
phrase calling for "secure and recognized boundaries" and note
that the resolution calls for a withdrawal "from territories"
rather than "from the territories." This finds support from
the resolution's drafters, this means Israel need not withdraw
from all territory. Further, the United Nations had never
recognized the West Bank as [de jure] Jordanian territory nor the
Gaza Strip as Egyptian territory and could not enforce their
claims to sovereignty.
Supporters of the "Palestinian viewpoint" focus on the
preambulatory phrase emphasizing the "inadmissibility of the
acquisition of territory by war," and note that certain, albeit
unofficial, translations of the resolution include the word "the"
in the phrase "from the territories." For instance, if one
translates the phrase from its official English into French, the
definite article "the" will be necessarily added.
Supporters of the Israeli viewpoint note that this phrase would
also apply to Israeli territory in the Jordan Valley captured by
Syria in 1948, which Israel recaptured during the Six Day War.
Syria believes that 242 requires that Israel return that
territory to Syria. Furthermore, the second part of that same
sentence in the preamble recognizes the need of existing states
to live in security.
"Land for peace"
Main article: see Land for peace
The resolution's most important feature is the "land for
peace" formula, calling for Israeli withdrawal from "territories"
it had occupied in 1967 in exchange for peace with its neighbors.
This was an important advance at the time, considering the fact
that there were no peace treaties between any Arab state and
Israel until the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty signed in 1979. "Land
for peace" served as the basis of the 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace
Treaty, in which Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula (Egypt
withdrew its claims to the Gaza Strip). Jordan withdrew its
claims for the West Bank shortly after the beginning of the First
Intifada, and has signed the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace in
1994, that demarcated the Jordan River as the border line.
Throughout the 1990s, there were Israeli-Syrian negotiations
regarding a normalization of relations and an Israeli withdrawal
from the Golan Heights but a peace treaty failed to materialize,
mainly due to the Syrian desire to recover and retain 25 square
kilometers of Israeli territory in the Jordan River Valley seized
in 1948 and occupied until 1967. As the United Nations
recognizes only the 1948 borders, there is little support for the
Syrian position outside the Arab bloc nor in resolving the Golan
Heights issue.
The resolution advocates a "just settlement of the refugee
problem" which applies to both the Arab and Jewish refugees of
the Middle East. French President de Gaulle stressed this
principle in his press conference of November 27, 1967 and
assured them "a dignified and fair future" in his letter of
January 9, 1968 to David Ben-Gurion. The UN resolution doesn't
specifically mention the Palestinians, who were not represented
in the debate. However, it did serve as a basis for
Israeli-Palestinian negotiations (Palestinians being represented
by the PLO) that led to the Oslo Accords. The Accords' main
premise, the eventual creation of Palestinian autonomy in some of
the territories captured during the Six-Day War, in return for
Palestinian recognition of Israel is obviously reminiscent of the
"Land for Peace" principle.
Semantic dispute
The interpretation of the resolution has been
controversial, in particular the meaning of Operative Clause
1(i):
Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied
in the recent conflict.
In simple terms, the semantic argument is about whether Israel's
obligations under the resolution include the requirement that her
armed forces withdraw from all the territories captured in 1967
or whether these obligations could be satisfied in the event of a
negotiated withdrawal from some part or parts of the territories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242
- 86k - ---------
United Nations Security Council Resolution 338 - Wikipedia, the
..
Arab-Israeli conflict · UN Security Council Resolution 242 ...
Text of Security Council Resolution 338 at domino.un.org; Charter
of the United Nations ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_338
- 27k - ---------
The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.
Baldin Lee Pramer
> Perhaps I chose my words poorly, but the fact remains that when Israel
> took the West Bank and Gaza, it was in a defensive war. The people they
> took the territory from were the aggressors. When the peace treaties
> were signed, the aggressor countries ceded these territories to Israel.
Now that makes sense as an argument.
BLP
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, John Q. Public said about:
> Hartung is alleged to have said:
> > Exactly what obligations does Israel have?
>
> It is a signatory to UN 242 & 338. So let's start there.
wikipedia
United Nations Security Council Resolution 338
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_338
The three-line United Nations Security Council Resolution 338
(S/RES/338), approved on October 22, 1973, called for a cease
fire in the Yom Kippur War in accordance with a joint proposal by
the United States and the Soviet Union. The resolution stipulated
a cease fire to take effect within 12 hours, no later than 6:52PM
of that day.
The resolution states in full (emphasis in original),
*The Security Council*
1. *Calls upon* all parties to the present fighting to cease
all firing and terminate all military activity immediately, no
later than 12 hours after the moment of the adoption of this
decision, in the positions they now occupy;
2. *Calls upon* the parties concerned to start immediately
after the cease-fire the implementation of Security Council
Resolution 242 (1967) in all of its parts;
3. *Decides that,* immediately and concurrently with the
cease-fire, negotiations shall start between the parties
concerned under appropriate auspices aimed at establishing a just
and durable peace in the Middle East. [4]
[end resolution]
The "appropriate auspices" was interpreted to mean American or
Soviet rather than UN auspices. This third article helped to
establish the framework for the Geneva Conference (1973) held in
December of 1973.
The importance of resolution 338 in the Arab-Israeli conflict
stems from the word "decides" in article 3 (also appearing in its
immediate sequels SC 339-341). Article 25 of the United Nations
Charter says that UN members "agree to accept and carry out the
decisions of the Security Council".
It is generally accepted that Security Council resolutions
adopted in the exercise of its primary responsibility for the
maintenance of international peace in accordance with the UN
Charter are binding upon the member states.[1][2]
Scholars applying this doctrine on the resolution assert that
the use of the word "decide" makes it a "decision" of the
Council, thus invoking the binding nature of article 25.[3]
The legal force added to Resolution 242 by this resolution is
the reason for the otherwise puzzling fact that SC 242 and the
otherwise seemingly superfluous and superannuated Resolution 338
are always referred to together in legal documents relating to
the conflict.
Some scholars have advanced the position that the resolution was
passed as a non-binding Chapter VI recommendation.[4][5]
Other commentators assert that it probably was passed as a
binding Chapter VII resolution.[6] The resolution contains
reference to neither Chapter VI nor Chapter VII.
The resolution was passed at the 1747th UNSC meeting by 14 to
none, with one member, the People's Republic of China, not
participating in the vote. The continued fighting despite the
terms called for by the resolution, brought Resolution 339 which
resulted in a cease fire.
Arab-Israeli peace diplomacy and treaties
...........snip - end wiki
Already Palistine is saying this latest incusion has
strenthened the position of Hamas, and the cynics say
this was intentional, to booby trap peace. This is
consistant with historical claims.
It's human nature that it has indeed strenthened the
internal political position of Hamas.
In a HUGE display of BushCo hypocrisy, it almost forced
elections on them, they freely elected Hamas because
they had been the only aproximation of government
infrastructure and humanitary aid to the region, but
instantly BushCo turned against them.
Man-on-the-street opinion:
Yesterday it was reported (via sound bite) on KPFA that
the formula was kill 100 Palistinians for every Israeli.
One key question I have not found asked, much less answered
is, What is Hamas's reasoning for their rocket attacks?
(insert YOUR biased, unsupported reply here ->___ )
==========Headlines
U.S. ally compared Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi
war crimes on Sunday
===================
Security Council condemned Israel's "excessive" use of force.
David Hartung
> In message news:kaidnfHy--2ejlHa...@comcast.com, David
> Hartung is alleged to have said:
>
>>> In message news:TrCdnQ2uuKQebVba...@comcast.com, David
>>> Hartung is alleged to have said:
>>>> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the
>>>> 1991 Gulf War.
>>> obligated to do.
>> Exactly what obligations does Israel have?
>
> It is a signatory to UN 242 & 338. So let's start there.
I was not aware that members "signed" Security Council resolutions.
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 05:56:09 -0800 (PST), Kevin Cunningham said
about:
Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
> On Mar 2, 8:28 pm, David Hartung wrote:
> > Doug Bashford wrote:
> > > March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. ally Saudi Arabia compared Israel's
> > > offensive in the Gaza Strip to Nazi war crimes on Sunday and
> > > called on the international community to stop what it called the
> > > "mass killings" of Palestinians.
> > Sometimes I think that it is time for the USA to do the same thing to
> > Saudi Arabia that we have done to Iraq, and to actually do what the left
> > is accusing us if, take over the oil fields, and use them for our benefit.
You betcha. ...get the REAL terrorists, and
do some good old fashoned looting in righteous indignation.
If BushCo had done that, it would be Republicanna for 30 years.
Too bad you Republicans had to beat off and shoot our wad
in Iraq instead. Now we are helpless.
Along with that, we should cut off aid to Israel
until a Palestinian state is established, and
deploy a huge UN peacekeeping force there.
Cram it down their throat if need be.
And make foriegn interest lobbying illegal.
Then, just fer fun, on 4th of July, at midnight,
nuke the moon! Ya baby! Bring back America, Superpower!
America the Good.
> >
> > Obviously The above is hyperbole, to a certain extent, but Saudi Arabia
> > is really beginning to try my patience.
>
> Gee, Davey, I would 'a thought you'd get heart burn when you found out
> that most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis and that we gave the
> Saudis a free ticket home. Their Bush's pals.
>
> And your president, Maximum Leader Bush, knew that and attacked Iraq
> any way. Now why did he attack Iraq? Got the countries confused?
Ya really have to wonder what kind of values Repubs
have to re-elect Bush. My best explanation is: subhuman.
They have been Limbaughtomized.
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008, David Hartung said about:
Here's how wrong you Republicans were about almost everything:
Results 1 - 50 of 159 from Jan 1, 2002 to Mar 1, 2004 for Iraq
OR saddam UN OR resolution author:Hartung
and:
========insert
18. David Hartung
View profile
More options Aug 23 2003, 9:35 am
Newsgroups: alt.society.liberalism, talk.politics.misc,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: "David Hartung" <dhart...@quixnet.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:34:10 -0500
Local: Sat, Aug 23 2003 9:34 am
Subject: Re: #Annan: UN won't back Iraq resolution
....big snip
> > Whatever the motivation was for our invasion of Iraq, there is no
> > evidenced that it had anything to do with either the Holy War On
> > Terrorism or the oddly vanished WMD.
> He's obviously driven by pure emotion and fear. When people get to that
> point, you can't reason with them.
David Hartung wrote:
No Sir, unlike you, I am motivated by a desire to secure the
future security of our nation. Iraq was as supporter of
terrorism, they were developing WMD
====end insert
yep.
"When people get to that
point, you can't reason with them."
That's why Republicanism is.
> >>>
> >>> Saddam's treaty obligations were to the UN, not the US.
> >> Saddam's obligations were the result of our action, and were to us, as
> >> much as to anyone else. it was our military which was engaged in the
> >> "containment" which youare so proud of. The decision was our to make.
> >
> > Really? That's going to be news to the 70 other countries that
> > participated in Operation Desert Storm.
>
> Who instigated and led the campaign?
Doesn't matter. The UN was in charge.
That's why we pulled back when we did.
That was OUR obligation.
So to ignore that fact, you start counting beans.
...like who has more, gets free rights from God.
We made an agreement.
I'm starting to wonder if you even believe
in honor and obligation.
You might wanna think that over.
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
In <jpadnVShGssV_1Ha...@comcast.com>
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:40:30 -0600, David Hartung said about:
From Wikipedia:
The importance of resolution 338 in the Arab-Israeli conflict
stems from the word "decides" in article 3 (also appearing in its
immediate sequels SC 339-341). Article 25 of the United Nations
Charter says that UN members "agree to accept and carry out the
decisions of the Security Council".
It is generally accepted that Security Council resolutions
adopted in the exercise of its primary responsibility for the
maintenance of international peace in accordance with the UN
Charter are binding upon the member states.[1][2]
Only a few paths lead to Honor,
but any of a million, lead to dishonor.
Mitchell Holman
news:Xns9A56792738...@66.250.146.128:
> In message news:kaidnfDy--32jlHa...@comcast.com, David
> Hartung is alleged to have said:
>
>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> David Hartung <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote in
>>> news:TrCdnQ2uuKQebVba...@comcast.com:
>>>
>>>> 3975 Dead wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0600, David Hartung
>>>>> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Q. Public wrote:
>>>>>>> In message news:GuydnQxc4ZUfylba...@comcast.com,
>>>>>>> SlackJaw is alleged to have said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the
>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>> Please produce evidence that those killed were terrorists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
>>>>>>> How would that be? By lying about its nukes or by defying
>>>>>>> hundreds of UN Resolutions?
>>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Answer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None.
>>>>> Aren't you the same clown who says the US was right to invade Iraq
>>>>> because Saddam "defied the UN"?
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> I said that the USA was right to invade Iraq because Iraq Saddam had
>>>> refused to do that which he had obligated himself to do after the
>>>> 1991 Gulf War.
>>>
>>>
>>> Saddam's treaty obligations were to the UN, not the US.
>>
>> Saddam's obligations were the result of our action, and were to us
>
> Cite? Didn't think so.
Hartung only demand cites, he doesn't provide them.
Mitchell Holman
"If you believe the claim to be incorrect,
you are welcome to disprove it."
David Hartung, Sept 8, 2007, responding to a
request for proof for one of his claims.
Mitchell Holman
2MiVHanZ2dn...@comcast.com:
> John Q. Public wrote:
>> In message news:tvOdnb0rzv3151ba...@comcast.com, David
>> Hartung is alleged to have said:
>>
>>> John Q. Public wrote:
>>>> In message news:GuydnQxc4ZUfylba...@comcast.com, SlackJaw
>>>> is alleged to have said:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, at leadt there's 100 fewer Muslim Arab terrorists in the world.
>>>> Please produce evidence that those killed were terrorists.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to Israel for making the world a little safer.
>>>> How would that be? By lying about its nukes or by defying hundreds of
>>>> UN Resolutions?
>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>
>> Exactly what authority does Israel have over Palestinian territories?
>>
>> Answer:
>>
>> None.
>
> Over the course of the years, both Jordan and Egypt ceded the West Bank
> and Gaza to Israel.
Proof?
Doug Bashford
David Hartung said:
> 3975 Dead wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:04:42 -0600, David Hartung
> > <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> 3975 Dead wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:34:59 -0600, David Hartung
> >>> <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
> >>>>> David Hartung said about:
> >>>>> Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
> >>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
> >>>> The people of Israel.
> >>> Israel is a signator to the UN Treaty.
> >> Which does not give the UN sovereign authority over Israel.
> >
> > Gosh, nobody said it did, chuckles.
>
> You seem to.
>
> > But it has the authority to declare Israel outlaw for ghettoizing and
> > slaughtering a whole race of people.
David Hartung said:
> I see, and what about the 60 plus years of attacks by Palestinian Arabs
> on the people of Israel? Israel has always wanted to live in peace with
> it's neighbors, but the neighbors seem to wan nothing more than to drive
> the Israelis out.
Wouldn't it be nice if courage and honor were
cost-free? Then EVERYBODY would be brave
and honorable! (- especially Republicans!)
David Hartung
I see.
Mitchell Holman
Earth to Hartung. The West Bank was seized in the 1967
War - that was STARTED BY ISRAEL.
It was taken BY the aggressors, not FROM the aggressors.
Mitchell Holman
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>> David Hartung wrote:
>>
>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>
>>>> David Hartung said about: Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>>
>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>>
>>>
>>> The people of Israel.
>>
>> Which people of Israel? The UN created Israel.
>
> The UN vote called for, or authorized(if you prefer) the partition of
> Palestine.
When did the people who actually LIVED in Palestine get
to vote on how their land was partitioned?
David Hartung
Seems as if my memory is faulty:
http://www.mideastweb.org/campdavid.htm
Now, I have admitted my error. When will you admit that the conduct of
Hamas is reprehensible, and call for them to cease their attacks on
Israeli civilians?
When will you admit that Israel has a right to defend themselves?
Gary DeWaay
> >
> > Perhaps I chose my words poorly, but the fact remains that when Israel
> > took the West Bank and Gaza, it was in a defensive war. The people they
> > took the territory from were the aggressors.
>
>
>
> Earth to Hartung. The West Bank was seized in the 1967
> War - that was STARTED BY ISRAEL.
>
> It was taken BY the aggressors, not FROM the aggressors.
>
I think he meant they were the aggressors the same as Saddam was before we
invaded in 2003.
--
- Gary
Doug Bashford
David Hartung said:
> 3975 Dead wrote:
> >> Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>> David Hartung wrote in
> >>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
> >>>>> 3AMphonecalls said:
> >>>>>> Why doesn't the UN et. al. and the Arab world tell the Palestinians,
> >>>>> Question. Just who do you think owns the occupied
> >>>>> territories? Clue. Find a map.
> >>>> Israel, by right of conquest.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> "Right of Conquest".
> >> Right of conquest backed up by treaties in which Jordan and Israel ceded
> >> the West bank and Gaza to Israel.
Nope. Again, look at that map:
Map of Israel, districts, numbered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Israel_districts_numbered.png
Again, read that Wiki I quoted.
Yer grabbing at straws. Have you no honor?
Do you even believe in honor?
> > No nation under UN treaty has a "right of conquest".
>
> Not even when the territory taken was taken
> in a defensive war?
Not even.
Now Yer grabbing at straws to the point
of looking stupid.
You can defend yer house and shoot a burgler,
not take his car. duh
....Grabbing at straw to find the dishonorable way....
David Hartung
> David Hartung <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:H8WdnaRn2NKLrVHa...@comcast.com:
>
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>> David Hartung wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David Hartung said about: Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>>>
>>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>>>
>>>> The people of Israel.
>>> Which people of Israel? The UN created Israel.
>> The UN vote called for, or authorized(if you prefer) the partition of
>> Palestine.
>
>
> When did the people who actually LIVED in Palestine get
> to vote on how their land was partitioned?
You will have to ask the UN that question. The fact remains that Israel
has existed 60 years, and has a Jewish population numbering in the
millions. Since you obviously believe that they have no right to exist,
what do you propose we do to resolve the problem?
Mitchell Holman
_Ix5lHanZ2dn...@comcast.com:
Of course Hamas practices terrorism.
So why does the US government arm and protect the
biggest source of financing for that terrorism, Saudi
Arabia?
"Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al Faisal recently
denied publicly the Kingdom's contributions to Hamas. The
prince may be hard-pressed then to explain the tens of
millions of dollars raised and provided by Saudi Interior
Minister Prince Naif to families of Hamas suicide bombers,
and additional tens of millions of dollars that Saudi
charities such as WAMY and the IIRO sent to Hamas's fronts
in the West Bank and Gaza."
www.nationalreview.com/ comment/ehrenfeld200406010834.asp
"The documents clearly unveil that Saudi Arabia
transferred inter alia large sums of money in a
systematic and ongoing manner to families of suicide
terrorists to the Hamas organization and to persons
and entities identified with Hamas." One Saudi group,
the Saudi Committee for Support of the Palestinian
Uprising, headed by Saudi Interior Minister Prince
Nayef Bin Abdul Aziz, transferred $55.7 million,
mostly to the families of suicide bombers."
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=1729
Mitchell Holman
news:MPG.22363903f...@news.midco.net:
That was the same Saddam that Hartung says was behind
the 9/11 attacks, that way he can justify the Iraq "occupation"
as self-defense.
Mitchell Holman
"Iraq was providing support to Al-Qaida"
David Hartung, unproven claim, 5/27/06
"We have been attacked by terrorists who
were being supported by Saddam"
David Hartung, unproven claim, 5/27/06
Mitchell Holman
> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> David Hartung <d_ha...@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:H8WdnaRn2NKLrVHa...@comcast.com:
>>
>>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>> David Hartung wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> David Hartung said about: Re: Israel ATTACKS Gaza !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly what authority does the UN have over Israel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uhm...it created Israel?
>>>>>
>>>>> The people of Israel.
>>>> Which people of Israel? The UN created Israel.
>>> The UN vote called for, or authorized(if you prefer) the partition of
>>> Palestine.
>>
>>
>> When did the people who actually LIVED in Palestine get
>> to vote on how their land was partitioned?
>
> You will have to ask the UN that question. The fact remains that Israel
> has existed 60 years,
About the same length of time as the Chinese "settlement" of Tibet.
Does the length of an occupation make it justified?
> and has a Jewish population numbering in the
> millions. Since you obviously believe that they have no right to exist,
> what do you propose we do to resolve the problem?
How about the US stop being an Israeli puppet and let
the people of the region work out their own differences?
"Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the
American foreign-aid budget, even though Israel comprises
just .001 percent of the world's population and already has
one of the world's higher per capita incomes."
http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
David Hartung
yes, I can see where you might believe that, but any objective review of
the facts can lead to only one conclusion, and that is that had Israel
not attacked preemptively, they would have been attacked,
David Hartung
I see. So In order to not be considered the agressors, Israel should
have waited another tow days or so for the Arabs to attack?
David Hartung
>> and has a Jewish population numbering in the
>> millions. Since you obviously believe that they have no right to exist,
>> what do you propose we do to resolve the problem?
>
>
> How about the US stop being an Israeli puppet and let
> the people of the region work out their own differences?
While I do not accept your premise that the US is an Israeli puppet, I
am strongly in favor of allowing the countries to resolve their own
differences. Where I see a problem is that as soon as it become apparent
that Israel will emerge the undisputed winner, even if they have to
destroy the nations around them, people such as you will begin to demand
that the UN step in and impose a settlement.
On the other side of the coin, should the Arabs win, and implement the
sort of "final solution" that Hitler tried, you and those who agree with
you will allow as how the Israelis finally got what they had coming to them.
David Hartung
Once again, you excuse the terrorists.
Gary DeWaay
Yup... I was right! In bizarro-wingnut world, preemptively striking
someone is the same as defense.
I swear... they want to invade the entire world "defensively"... just
imagine if McCain actually gets elected?
--
- Gary
Gary DeWaay
Why don't we first just establish nuetrality and see what happens?
--
- Gary
Mitchell Holman
So you admit that Israel WAS the aggressor and
that you were wrong about it being a "defensive war"?
What's next - the US invasion of Iraq was also
a "defensive" war?
Opps - never mind. We already covered that.
Mitchell Holman
Just admit you were wrong about who was the
aggressor in the 1967 War so we can move on.
Mitchell Holman
Once again you excuse the financing of terrorism.
Here is the proof of that you deleted, like you always do.
Kurt Nicklas
David, don't know understand by now that Hollowman will not answer any
of your
questions?
David Hartung
> David, don't know understand by now that Hollowman will not answer any
> of your
> questions?
I know, but sometimes it is fun to rub his nose it the fact.
SlackJaw
Ever notice how anti-semitic liberals have become?
--
-
A Republican is someone who works all day so you don't have to.
3975 Dead
Hitler's attack on Poland was purely defensive! Hitler said so
himself!
>
>I swear... they want to invade the entire world "defensively"... just
>imagine if McCain actually gets elected?
Think "Benito Mussolini" and "Ethiopia".
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News...@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essay...@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
David Hartung
Often.
Mitchell Holman
pqdneTdEqvYAlHa...@comcast.com:
".....the fact remains that when Israel took the West Bank and
Gaza, it was in a defensive war."
David Hartung, Mar 3, 2008. In fact Israel STARTED the 1967 War
in which they seized the West Bank and Gaza.
Mitchell Holman
"Fuck the Jews, they didn't vote for us anyway."
GOP Sec of State James Baker (NewYorkPost, 3/6/92)
David Hartung
Chuckle.
That comment hit home?
Mitchell Holman
Proving you wrong, one post at a time............
Mitchell Holman
"The fact remains that when Israel took the West Bank and
Gaza, it was in a defensive war."
David Hartung, Mar 3, 2008. In fact Israel started the 1967
John Ortega
news:Xns9A56D76A...@216.196.97.131:
So the Palestinian Arabs shoot rockets into Israel every day and night for
9 months, and when Israel counter-attacks, the headline reads: "Israel
attacks Gaza!" Wow! What a propaganda driven world we live in. Even the
global press are made up of Anti-Semites!
leona...@gmail.com
On Mar 3, 10:39 pm, Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote:
> David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote in news:
> _PmdnbGwSuE8X1HanZ2dnUVZ_r_in...@comcast.com:
> > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >> "Fuck the Jews, they didn't vote for us anyway."
> >> GOP Sec of State James Baker (NewYorkPost, 3/6/92)
> > Chuckle.
>
> > That comment hit home?
>
> Proving you wrong, one post at a time............
>
** Holman, you can't prove anyone "wrong" -- you are
always, repeat always wrong yourself. It matters not
the topic
--- ---
| "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation
| of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing
| our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab
| unity. In reality today there is no difference between
| Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
| Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak
| today about the existence of a Palestinian people,
| since Arab national interests demand that we posit
| the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to
| oppose Zionism.
* PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein
leona...@gmail.com
On Mar 4, 8:24 am, Mitchell Jackass Hollowman <Noem...@comcast.com>
wrote:
> David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote innews:v_ydnet10KFTTlHa...@comcast.com:
> > John Ortega wrote:
> >> Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote in
> >>news:Xns9A56D76A...@216.196.97.131:
>
> >>> David Hartung <d_hart...@comcast.net> wrote in news:-
> >>> pqdneTdEqvYAlHanZ2dnUVZ_uLin...@comcast.com:
>
> >>> ".....the fact remains that when Israel took the West Bank and
> >>> Gaza, it was in a defensive war."
>
> >> for 9 months, and when Israel counter-attacks, the headline reads:
> >> "Israel attacks Gaza!" Wow! What a propaganda driven world we live in.
> >> Even the global press are made up of Anti-Semites!
>
>
> "On the morning of June 5, Israel launched a devastating attack
> on Arab air power, destroying about 300 Egyptian, 50 Syrian, and
> 20 Jordanian aircraft, mostly on the ground. This action, which
> virtually eliminated the Arab air forces, was immediately followed
> by ground invasions into Sinai and the Gaza Strip, Jordan, and
> finally Syria. Arab ground forces, lacking air support, were routed
> on all three fronts; by the time the UN-imposed cease-fire took
> effect in the evening of June 11, the IDF had seized the entire
> Sinai Peninsula to the east bank of the Suez Canal; the West Bank
> of Jordan, including East Jerusalem; and the Golan Heights of Syria.
> Unlike the aftermath of the 1956 War, however, the IDF did not
> withdraw from the areas it occupied in1967."
> http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/9999/6day1967.htm
** As usual Mitchell Jackass Hollowman tells only one side
of the story, perhaps because he is too stupid to
understand and not because of his innate bigotry.
** Here is the real story as told by Wikipedia except that
the Arab states had never even began peace
negoiations with Israel even after Israel gave back the
land taken in the 1965 war.
* Military Provocation By Arab Countries and Soviet
Disinformation
While Israel consistently expressed a desire to negotiate
a peace with its neighbors, there was no matching
sentiment on the Arab side. In an address to the UN
General Assembly on October 10, 1960, Foreign Minister
Golda Meir challenged Arab leaders to meet with Prime
Minister David Ben-Gurion to negotiate a peace
settlement. Nasser (Egypt) answered on October 15,
saying that Israel was trying to deceive world opinion,
and reiterating that his country would never recognize
the Jewish State. Nasser's rhetoric became increasingly
bellicose; on March 8, 1965 he said:
* We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in
sand. We shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood.
A few months later, Nasser expressed the Arabs' goal to be:
* ... the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian
people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of
the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of
Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication
of Israel.
Other Arab leaders from Syria, Jordan, and Iraq joined in
the rhetoric and preparations for war, increasing pressure
on Egypt's President Gamal Nasser, perceived as the
leader of the Arab world. Syria's attacks along the DMZ
grew more frequent in 1965 and 1966. Syria's attacks on
Israeli kibbutzim from the Golan Heights provoked a
retaliatory strike on April 7, 1967, during which Israeli
planes shot down six Syrian MiGs. Israel followed up by
re-introducing military forces to the DMZ.
At the same time, and unknown to the Israelis, the Soviet
Union mounted a disinformation campaign pushing Egypt
to join Syria against Israel. At that time, the Soviets were
providing military and economic aid to both Syria and
Egypt. On May 13, 1967 a Soviet parliamentary
delegation visited Cairo and informed the Egyptian
leaders that Israel had concentrated eleven to thirteen
brigades along the Syrian border in preparation for an
assault within a few days, with the intention of
overthrowing the revolutionary Syrian Government. This
was a complete fabrication designed by the Soviets to
destabilize the Middle East. Similar false information
may have been given to Egypt by the Soviets as early
as May 2.
The build up and aggressive intent were denied by Israel.
UN Secretary General U Thant reported that UNTSO
observers on the Syrian border:
* ... have verified the absence of troop concentrations
and absence of noteworthy military movements on
both sides of the [Syrian] line.
Nasser probably correctly interpreted the Soviet
information as an indication to him that the time was ripe
for an attack on Israel and that he had their backing. With
the United States deeply distracted by the War in
Vietnam, the Soviets had reason to think there would be
no US intervention. Nassar then abandoned his former
cautious policy and took the lead for new aggression
against Israel. Syria and Iraq eagerly joined Egypt's
preparations, increasing the momentum toward war.
On May 15, Israel's 19th Independence Day, Egyptian
troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the
Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared
for battle along the Golan Heights.
On May 16, Nassar requested the withdrawal of the UN
Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956.
Egyptian forces moved up to the UNEF lines and began
to harrass the UN positions. Without bringing the matter
to the attention of the General Assembly, as his
predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant
complied with the demand. This was a direct violation of
the conditions under which Israel had returned control of
the Sinai to Egypt after the Sinai Campaign. The UN
force was supposed to safeguard Israel from Egypt
again closing the Straits of Tiran or launching terrorist
attacks from that quarter.
Blockade of the Straits of Tiran
In 1956, the United States gave Israel assurances that it
recognized the Jewish State's right of access to the
Straits of Tiran. In 1957, at the UN, 17 maritime powers
declared that Israel had a right to transit the Strait.
Moreover, any blockade violated the Convention on the
Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was
adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea
on April 27, 1958. Nonetheless, on on the night of May
22-23, 1967 Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli
shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut
off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the
flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran.
Nasser was fully aware of the pressure he was exerting to
force Israel's hand. The day after the blockade was set up,
he said defiantly:
* The Jews threaten to make war. I reply: Welcome!
We are ready for war.
Final Blows Lead to War
There is evidence that Egypt was warned by the US and
the Soviet Union in late May 1967 that war should be
avoided, but by then the momentum to war was
unstoppable.
King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt
on May 30, 1967, under which Jordan joined the
Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its
army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian
command. He had little choice since Jordan housed
700,000 Palestinian Arabs whose rioting in November
1966 almost brought down Hussein's government. On
June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt,
Jordan and Syria. President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq
added these words to the mountain of provocation:
* The existence of Israel is an error which must be
rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the
ignominy which has been with us since 1948.
Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map.
Armed forces in the Arab countries were mobilized. Israel
was confronted by an Arab force of some 465,000 troops,
over 2,880 tanks and 810 aircraft. The armies of Kuwait,
Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops
and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.
Israeli forces had been on high alert during the three
weeks of tension which began on May 15, 1967 when it
became known that Egypt had concentrated large-scale
forces in the Sinai peninsula, an alert status Israel could
not maintain indefinitely. The country could not accept
interdiction of its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba.
Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this
successfully, Israel had to achieve surprise, not wait for
an Arab invasion, a potential catastrophic situation. On
June 4, the Cabinet authorized the Prime Minister and
the Minister of Defence to decide on appropriate steps
to defend the State of Israel.
** Nasser had to know that the blockade of the straits of
Tiran was an act of war, and his refusal to negotiate a
peace treaty after 3 prior defeats ...