A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
Gandalf Grey
A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
by Glenn Greenwald
There are few things that make political coverage more unbearable -- and
more distorting -- than The David Brooks Syndrome: the extremely patronizing
and ill-informed pretense, shared by media and right-wing elites alike, that
they can study the Little Common Person like a zoo animal, and then
translate and give voice to their simple-minded, good-hearted,
salt-of-the-earth perspectives. Rarely has this mentality been so
transparent as in the wake of the Biden-Palin debate, as pundits and
right-wing polemicists like Brooks, Peggy Noonan and Rich "Starbursts" Lowry
rushed forward to proclaim giddily that Regular Americans would love Sarah
Palin and this love could even help McCain win, despite -- or, really,
because of -- her vapid, content-free telegenic presence.
Actual empirical evidence -- called "polling data" -- has almost uniformly
demonstrated how false these condescending pats on the head are, as every
single poll conducted thus far (at least that I'm aware of) found that
Americans believed that Biden won and is the far more serious candidate for
office, and huge numbers continue to have profound doubts about Palin's
fitness for office. And the first tracking poll to report a full post-debate
day of polling -- the Research 2000 poll for Daily Kos -- finds Obama with a
13-point lead, his largest ever. This joint right-wing/pundit claim that
Americans would swoon in the face of Palin's empty chatter, self-conscious
folksiness and chronic, seizure-like winking says much more about those
making the claim than it does about their Regular People subjects.
As polling data conclusively demonstrates, the mindset of the voting public
is infinitely more rational and substance-based than the pundits and the
Right fantasize when they lyrically praise the Regular American -- at least
it is in this time of perceived (and actual crisis). What's happening in
this country, and in this election, is rather simple and easy to see: (1)
the country is in total shambles -- possibly far worse than what people even
realize; (2) we have lived for the last eight years under virtually absolute
GOP rule; (3) the public knows this; (4) the Republican President and his
party are therefore intensely -- historically -- unpopular; and (5) the
voting public doesn't want to continue living under the rule of the same
faction and same political party that has driven the country into the
ground. Having Sarah Palin drop her gerund endings and desperately trotting
out the standard, tired GOP attack ads to depict Obama as a radical,
fist-pumping, America-hating, unhinged socialist -- when everyone can see
with their own eyes that he isn't -- won't change any of that.
That the Right believes in the fundamental stupidity of the American voter
while simultaneously pretending to revere and speak for them them is
reflected in their belief that they can successfully blame the financial
crisis and the country's woes generally on Democrats, who -- while hardly
covering themselves with glory -- haven't had any meaningful power in this
country for as long as one can remember. Ponder how stupid you must think
Americans are to believe that you can blame the financial crisis on the 2004
statements of House Democrats about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when that was
a time when the GOP controlled all branches of the Government and nothing
could have been more inconsequential than what Barney Frank or Maxine
Waters, languishing in the minority in Tom DeLay's tyrannical House, said or
did about anything.
In sum, Americans hate the way the country has been ruled, the economic
crisis is making them hate that more by the minute, and the country has been
dominated by Republican rule for the last eight years -- at least. It's just
this simple:
And the reality is even more imbalanced than that graph illustrates: between
(1) the tiny margins the Democrats have had when controlling the Senate, (2)
the true functional majority of "GOP + Blue Dogs" in the House, and (3)
Democratic complicity and fear, it is GOP policy which ends up prevailing in
virtually every instance of alleged "bipartisanship" even during those tiny
slivers of ostensible Democratic control.
The overarching reality of the country is that we've lived under
unchallenged Republican rule and the country has virtually collapsed on
every level. No matter how dumb Rich Lowry and David Brooks fantasize The
Regular People to be, those facts are far too glaring to suppress.
Copyright ©2008 Salon Media Group, Inc.
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NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
available to advance understanding of
political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
"A little patience and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their
spells dissolve, and the people recovering their true sight, restore their
government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are
suffering deeply in spirit,
and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public
debt. But if the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have
patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning
back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at
stake."
-Thomas Jefferson
House of Pancakes
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OvudnWBRYr0R2XfV...@earthlink.com...
Yet;
"It's a dangerous road, but we have no choice," a top McCain strategist told
the Daily News. "If we keep talking about the economic crisis, we're going
to lose."
Read the whole story here.
number6
> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
Things sort of went into the toilet though ... when the Democrats took
over Congress ...
bval...@aol.com
> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
fine until they grabbed the majority.
House of Pancakes
<bval...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep. Coma? No,
they were busy setting up this bullshit for Bush and his base.
GW Chimpzilla's Eye-Rack Neocon Utopia
AWOL Bush vetoed every Democratic bill.
--
There are only two kinds of Republicans: Millionaires and fools.
Tazmanian Devil
"number6" <snum...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9740ce26-7b94-432b...@h60g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
The toilet is where you rightwing feces belong, and 2006 was nothing--this
election we flush.
Tazmanian Devil
"House of Pancakes" <J...@wh.net> wrote in message
news:1zsGk.1827$W06....@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
Use Your Head
> > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> > fine until they grabbed the majority.
What fantasy land do you Right Wing Weasels live in?
We've had 2 years of Democrat control of congress, 12 years of
Republican control of congress before that, and 8 years of a
Republican president, yet you try to blame it on the Democrats.
And ya know, all of those mortages that are failing now were taken out
when you Right Wing Weasels were in charge of the Senate, the House
and the White House.
The way you crybabies try to point fingers is amazing. It takes a
certain kind of person to be a Republican today.
bval...@aol.com
> <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> .
> The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> fine until they grabbed the majority.
> And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep.
Nope. The Democrats, when warned about the coming disaster, folded
their hands and basically said "there's no problem"
bval...@aol.com
> > > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> > > fine until they grabbed the majority.
>
> What fantasy land do you Right Wing Weasels live in?
> We've had 2 years of Democrat control of congress,>
And everything fell apart. Oil prices have spiked, and housing prices
crashed.
.
>12 years of
> Republican control of congress before that, and 8 years of a
> Republican president, yet you try to blame it on the Democrats.
Because things were fine during those times.
> And ya know, all of those mortages that are failing now were taken out
> when you Right Wing Weasels were in charge of the Senate, the House
> and the White House.
.
Actually, no. This crisis was caused by political correctness being
forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.
Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an
embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992,
a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie
increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income
borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in
particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority
gains."
Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on
banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's
secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated
Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of
Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low-
to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.
Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage
applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks
were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-
worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child
named "Caylee."
Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks
treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income
sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.
When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches,
political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.
In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to
the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed
the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as
one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration,
saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest
level ever recorded."
Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the
Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail
the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't
get out of their loans by selling their houses.
A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-
backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-
bomb and now it's gone off.
In Bush's first year in office, the White House chief economist, N.
Gregory Mankiw, warned that the government's "implicit subsidy" of
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, combined with loans to unqualified
borrowers, was creating a huge risk for the entire financial system.
Rep. Barney Frank denounced Mankiw, saying he had no "concern about
housing." How dare you oppose suicidal loans to people who can't repay
them! The New York Times reported that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were
"under heavy assault by the Republicans," but these entities still had
"important political allies" in the Democrats.
Now, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, middle-class
taxpayers are going to be forced to bail out the Democrats' two most
important constituent groups: rich Wall Street bankers and welfare
recipients.
.
> The way you crybabies try to point fingers is amazing.
.
Yes, how dare we point out how the Democrats fucked over the economy?
.
> It takes a
> certain kind of person to be a Republican today.
.
It's called an adult.
Blackwater
The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
fsds...@yahoo.com
Maybe you should read this...
http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/traiger_hinckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-7-08.pdf
Gandalf Grey
"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:48ea7712...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
I'm afraid for you that it is, old buddy.
Your party is toast. And YES, Blackwater, you are a GOP.
>
GO'Pukes DOWn 777
Dems "took over" nothing, they don't have a veto-proof majority power, that
WILL CHANGE in about a month ~ : ))) ... ... ...
--
At the RNC incest is PRIORITY-1 because that's how the GO'Pukes got started,
all the way back to the Virgin Birth ;)
Blackwater
Hmmm ... my registration card says "Lib" .... :-)
Anyway, DNC is *not* the opposite of GOP. The two
parties are SO much alike they're often called
'Republicrats'. They're corrupted by the same
people, and dedicated to the same people too -
themselves.
If you want a chance of FIXING things - well, some
of them anyway - the FIRST act has to be purging
the current congress and senate as thoroughly as
possible. Conveniently, there's a big election in
just a few weeks ...
Yes, the new guys risk becoming as corrupted as the
old guys BUT - there's a window of opportunity, a
period where they're NOT very corrupted or beholdin'.
There are maybe half a dozen tweaks to make that will
make American politics a lot more bearable - first
and foremost being that any 'donation' to a public
official is called 'bribery' and everyone gets arrested.
It IS possible to somewhat reduce the influence of Big
Money on DC politics - not "eliminate" of course - but
usefully reduce. Big Money would have to go through a
much more contorted process to get its way - and that
means more exposure, and opportunities to get caught.
But NONE of this is possible with the existing crop
of 'representatives'. WAY too corrupted, WAY too
vested in the status quo, WAY too many backroom deals
made and secrets kept.
So, "change" ... it's really up to *US*. None of our
'reps' are actually gonna provide much.
Spread the word.
Gandalf Grey
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:47:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>>news:48ea7712...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>>>
>>> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>>
>>I'm afraid for you that it is, old buddy.
>>
>>Your party is toast. And YES, Blackwater, you are a GOP.
>
> Hmmm ... my registration card says "Lib" .... :-)
>
> Anyway, DNC is *not* the opposite of GOP. The two
> parties are SO much alike they're often called
> 'Republicrats'.
Only by republicans trying to muddy the waters when they know they're going
down in an election year.
Republicans like you.
Kevin Cunningham
And you repugs had years to fix the problems. If you had fixed the
problems there wouldn't be a complete breakdown of the financial
system. You lost because of your morality, ethics and economics.
That's kinda the big three. Throw in your profound failures in
foreign policy and that about covers everything.
Blackwater
<vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>news:48ea815a...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:47:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>>>news:48ea7712...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>>>>
>>>> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>>>
>>>I'm afraid for you that it is, old buddy.
>>>
>>>Your party is toast. And YES, Blackwater, you are a GOP.
>>
>> Hmmm ... my registration card says "Lib" .... :-)
>>
>> Anyway, DNC is *not* the opposite of GOP. The two
>> parties are SO much alike they're often called
>> 'Republicrats'.
>
>Only by republicans trying to muddy the waters when they know they're going
>down in an election year.
>
>Republicans like you.
Ah ... so it's all an illusion ... the Dems are actually
*special* ... above realpolitik ...............
What HAVE you been smokin ???
Gandalf Grey
False analogy. The Dems not being the GOPs is not equivalent to the Dems
being "above realpolitik.." anymore than the GOP being the GOP "because"
it's not above realpolitik. Realpolitik is a tertiary term you're dragging
in to again distort the issue.
If you want to argue, then argue, but don't blow rhetorical smoke at me.
Blackwater
<vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
Translation from libspeak : "You GOT me !". :-)
Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
Ain't much. They take their bribes from pretty much the
same people. Serve themselves first and The People last,
just like Republicans. They're deep into every problem
we've got, side by side with their GOP bretheren.
Oh wait, I remember ONE difference ... when the GOP said
Fannie/Freddie needed serious regulatin' a few years ago,
the Dems said "No ! Everything's fine ! Hands Off !".
I'll refer you to :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
for evidence of that claim.
Gee ... I wonder who was getting the biggest 'donations'
from the lending industry ?
The big dif between Republican and Democratic pols ? They
blame DIFFERNET PEOPLE for all our woes - hoping we won't
notice that it's THEY THEMSELVES who are actually responsible.
Rex B
Actually, the poop started hitting the fan about 2005, which is why
the Democrats won congress in 2006.
The problem was that Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 to 2005
- 11 years, and during this time, their big agenda was deregulation.
They deregulated the utilities, the telephone companies, the cable
companies, the cell phone companies, the insurance companies,
corporate pensions, and the financial services industry, including
brokers, banks, short selling, and home equity loans and lines of
credit. Realtors weren't terribly well regulated in the first place,
but further deregulation meant what few watchdogs were there, were
gone.
On top of that, even known perpetrators were given "blanket amnesty"
by the Bush administration, who did to companies like Citibank and
Prudential the same kinds of things that were done in the Microsoft
DOJ scandal. The Compliance officers appointed by Janet Reno were
replaced by more "Business Friendly" compliance officers and they were
put into the Marketing department, where they got bonuses for hitting
revenue and profit targets. So of course, all of the complaints about
unethical practices such as telling people to take out a home equity
loan to buy mutual funds, were simply dismissed as "without merit"
keeping the presiding judges from being able to "Legislate from the
Bench" as Bush and Republicans would call it.
McCain and his top economic advisor, Phill Gramm were big proponents
of deregulation. And McCain PRESIDED over the Armed Services
committee over all the years when Haliburton and Black-water were
getting all those "No Bid" contracts. It's rather ironic that McCain
didn't raise a peep, and even today won't bash Bush for these very
tactics, but rather refers to them in very general terms as if it was
the Democrats who were making all these no-bid contracts and other
"sweetheart deals".
Even today, we have Bush going to bat for Citibank against Wachovia
investors, trying to force Wachovia into accepting 1/7th the price
Wells-Fargo is willing to pay, so that Citibank can buy the Wachovia
deposits and instruments at "mark to market" rates, of $1 a share,
then use the new formula suggested by the SEC, which would value the
same assets at about $20 a share. Some pretty creative accounting,
and Citibank is a big contributor to McCain and Gramm.
The Republicans like to put the blame on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,
blaming them for buying up all these "trash mortgages", when it was
Citibank and their Primerica Mortgage brokers (along with Citibank
Mortgage brokers) who were pushing not only low-income families into
sub-prime and variable rate mortgages prior to the 2004 elections and
the 2006 elections, so that Bush could take credit for the increase in
home ownership, but they also tried to steer, corner, and coerce
middle-class and upper-middle class families into taking variable rate
and sub-prime mortgages so that the Realtors could artificially
inflate home prices and home mortgages prior to the 2004 and 2006
elections.
So George W Bush threw a great big party, and had home-owners hock
their houses to pay for it, so that he could fund the war in Iraq and
so that states and municipalities could increase property taxes
(Republicans do like to shift power to local governments), by simply
raising property value assessments.
As a result, seniors and other fixed-income recipients ended up having
to borrow to pay their property tax bills.
The Republicans also passed a whole bunch of new creative financing
options, including Zero down payment loans (2003), and Interest Only
Mortgages (2005), and sub-prime mortgages. All of which had some
Democratic support, because it was supposed to help the poor afford
homes rehabilitated by Habitat for Humanity and similar community
organizations.
But Republicans encouraged banks to extend all these options, as well
as generous home equity lines of credit (HELOC) and even home equity
loans for "future value" based on the assumption that housing prices
would continue to skyrocket.
In effect, the Republicans told the Banks "Burn the rule-book, there
are no rules, lend as much as you can, as fast as you can, so that
nobody is hurting while we spend $1 trillion/year in Iraq during Shock
and Awe, and $1 billion/day during the Surge.
So the banks did everything they could to put homeowners "in hoc up to
their eyeballs", and then stripped away regulations for debt
management - allowing "credit councilors" to tell people to pay THEM a
"low monthly rate" while they pocketed the "commission" trashed the
"client's" credit ratings, and tried to force the creditors to settle
for lower interest rates and/or smaller settlements, and when that
failed, helping the "client" file for bankruptcy.
And the Republican House and Senate revised the bankruptcy laws so
that homes, personal property, and even retirement savings, were no
longer protected from seizure when a person became legally
"insolvant".
And it was the Republicans who not only deregulated health insurance
companies, but also limited their liability and made them immune from
malpractice lawsuits. Furthermore, the Republicans passed laws that
permitted insurance companies to deny payments for life-saving
procedures, effectively conspiring to kill their insured clients. And
to deny payments for emergency live-saving services, leaving the
survivor of a heart attack, stroke, or other life-threatening
condition saddled with massive debt, forced to either draw from 401K
funds, IRA funds, or declare bankruptcy. Finally, they made it
possible and legal for doctors and hospitals to re-bill the clients
with NEW charges after they declared bankruptcy, meaning that they
could be harassed or garnished for years, because the "hidden charges"
weren't covered under the original bankruptcy.
And then there was the deregulation of health care providers that lets
the hospital emergency room bring in 20 different doctors to do
"triage" examinations and charge as much as $300 per examination, even
before the person is put into a bed. And if you loose consciousness,
then there is no limit to the number of doctors who can charge for
"Examination and Evaluation" - much of it while waiting for an MRI
machine or CAT scan machine to become available - in 8-10 hours.
And of course McCain has already publicly declared that he would like
to FURTHER deregulate the health care industry and the insurance
industry. I guess they want to let doctors force you to cash out your
401K funds, or get first rights to your life insurance payments.
And then there are the hospitals who figure out how much life
insurance you have, and put you on artificial life support and bill
you until the bill is substantially larger than the life insurance,
then they finally pull the plug - leaving the widow destitute.
And there are the Nursing homes that feed their residents doctor
prescribed barbituates, valium, antidepressant, thorazine, haldol and
even "cocktails" of some combination of these, keeping the "residents"
sedated so that they are mindless vegetables, unable to move, and then
all they have to do is change their diapers once a day, and make sure
that any visitors make an appointment for a visit so that they can
drop the dosage a bit, and clean up any diaper rash. Some hospitals
are even giving patients electric shock therapy to wipe their memories
- so that they can't tell children or ministers about their abuse.
But the Republicans want to FURTHER DEREGULATE these practices so that
when the baby boomers hit the nursing homes, they can be put into
"veggie mode" as quickly as possible, and kept alive just long enough
to drain all of their assets and life insurance, then they can "pull
the plug".
But the Republicans want to FURTHER DEREGULATE the entire health care
system.
I suspect McCain would also like to deregulate the Life Insurance
companies as well, allowing them to disqualify "preixisting
conditions" and encouraging life insurance agents to tell people to
cash in their universal life policies and replace it with Term Life
policies (which can exclude conditions that are prexisiting to each
RENEWAL), or perhaps they will allow Universal Life insurance policies
to buy TERM policies, and automatically exclude any conditions
diagnosed during the previous term. Heck, maybe the Republicans will
even let them renew every YEAR or every MONTH, which pretty much
guarantees that the insurance companies can collect the whole face
amount, and not have to pay out a dime.
At the moment, there are laws to prevent such things, but McCain would
like to "deregulate" that.
Leo Sgouros
I can play that game too...
> I'll refer you to :
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
>
> for evidence of that claim.
>
> Gee ... I wonder who was getting the biggest 'donations'
> from the lending industry ?
>
> The big dif between Republican and Democratic pols ? They
> blame DIFFERNET PEOPLE for all our woes - hoping we won't
> notice that it's THEY THEMSELVES who are actually responsible.
>
...but both sides are of the same coin.So what is to be done besides voting
all the scumbags out?I certainly dont see voting for a third part president
is realistic, so it has to be one or the other main bum.
Stanley in Illinois: "Lou, if God wanted man to vote, he would have given us
a candidate." That has to be one of my favorite. Let me repeat that: "Lou,
if God wanted man to vote, he would have given us a candidate."
From CNN
Gandalf Grey
TRANSLATION: Gandalf nailed me on an obvious rhetorical dodge and now I'm
forced to declare victory without even engaging the enemy.
Explain to us all how DEM=GOP equates to DEM and GOP both deal in
realpolitik.
If you can't do that, you've got no argument and you can't do that because
it's an obvious non sequitur. It's equivalent to saying that Medicine and
Law are exactly the same thing because they both occasionally use latin
terms.
>
> Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
No, no, my little artless dodger, YOU were the one who asserted they're the
same. It's up to you to demonstrate that there is no point by point
difference between the two parties.
> Ain't much.
Then your argument fails on its face.
bval...@aol.com
> On Oct 6, 4:15 pm, "bvall...@aol.com" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 6, 11:13 am, "House of Pancakes" <J...@wh.net> wrote:> <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> > > .
> > > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> > > fine until they grabbed the majority.
> > .
> > > And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep.
>
> > .
> > Nope. The Democrats, when warned about the coming disaster, folded
> > their hands and basically said "there's no problem"
>
> > Coma? No,
> And you repugs had years to fix the problems.
We tried.
September 23, 2008 - 0:49 ET
For many years the President and his Administration have not only
warned of the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at a housing
government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) but also put forward thoughtful
plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would
encounter such difficulties. President Bush publicly called for GSE
reform 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately,
these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to
reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the
legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were
problems.
2001
April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because
"financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in
financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic
activity."
2002
May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance
principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility
to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO,
5/29/02)
2003
January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for
the previous three years.
February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO)
releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an
implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has
provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence,
unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial
sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae,
Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)
September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges
OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.
September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House
Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact
"legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise
the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored
enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy
requirements.
October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.
November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw
explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower
the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce
systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the
regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and
minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind
down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At
The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And
Leadership, 11/6/03)
2004
February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed
by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required
capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator:
"The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness
regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to
meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a
new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg.
83)
February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the
financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the
Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing
GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-
Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times,
2/24/04)
June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk
posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a
world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored
enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing
financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision
to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the
Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory
supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and
the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House
Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
Testimony, 6/16/04)
2005
April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform,
saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this
Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by
the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure
that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of
funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-
measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial
system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House
Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)
2007
July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities
collapse.
August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform
package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first
when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them
reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will
consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference,
The White House, 8/9/07)
September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in
August – up 115 percent from the year before.
September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent
from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale
price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.
December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass
legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide
liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners,
and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've
called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent
regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important
housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this
year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United
States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George
W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)
2008
January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.
January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in
value.
February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of
reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is
essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public
mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE
Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs,
2/7/08)
March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move
forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to
continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies
to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their
mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club
Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)
April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed
legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are]
constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing
market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their
homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White
House, 4/14/08)
May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass
legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation
deteriorates further.
* "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments
and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I
have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing
Administration that will help more families stay in their homes,
reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their
housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free
bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush,
Radio Address, 5/3/08)
* "[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay
in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making
progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That
reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President
George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White
House, 5/19/08)
* Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal
Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure
they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies
to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President
George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)
June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the
President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to
address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At
Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development,
Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)
July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform
of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the
institutions are failing.
GW Chimpzilla's Eye-Rack Neocon Utopia
> On Oct 6, 2:55 pm, Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 4:15 pm, "bvall...@aol.com" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 6, 11:13 am, "House of Pancakes" <J...@wh.net> wrote:>
>> > <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > >news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
>> > > On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:>
>> > > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>>
>> > > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>>
>> > > .
>> > > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
>> > > fine until they grabbed the majority.
>> > .
>> > > And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep.
>>
>> > .
>> > Nope. The Democrats, when warned about the coming disaster, folded
>> > their hands and basically said "there's no problem"
>>
>> > Coma? No,
> .
>> And you repugs had years to fix the problems.
> .
> We tried.
The Republicans are so pathetic they failed in Afghanistan, they failed in Iraq,
they failed to regulate the sales of boutique mortgage-backed derivatives, they
failed to regulate the issuance of credit-default swaps.
The number and cost of failed subprime mortgages is tiny compared to the
trillions of dollars in failed mortgage-backed derivatives and credit-default
swaps.
>
[pap snipped]
timeOday
> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
I'll admit right now, I'm so eager to punish the neocons it's hard to be
rational about Obama. But for the moment, he is the ONLY alternative.
Clam Bake
<vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
> No, no, my little artless dodger, YOU were the one who asserted they're the
> same. It's up to you to demonstrate that there is no point by point
> difference between the two parties.
But he has a point. We've all heard a lot of Bush and republican
bashing but absolutely, positively NOTHING about what the democrats
will do differently or better. Nothing at all. So let's hear their
plans.
bushhelpscorporationsdestroyamerica
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:52:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>
THEIR PLANS ARE DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY AND THAT IS ALL I NEED TO HEAR
insane...@yahoo.com
> On Oct 6, 1:01 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> over Congress ...
Nonsense, dumbass, unless you think that the deaths of more than 4,000
of our service people isn't when things went into the toilet. You
rightards hate our troops.
Gandalf Grey
"Clam Bake" <iluv...@spamme.com> wrote in message
news:e99le459l38lr8dmm...@4ax.com...
That's crap. Obama has talked constantly about specific plans and specific
areas of difference. McCain has promised changed but hasn't pointed out one
area where he'll be any different from Bush.
insane...@yahoo.com
> On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> fine until they grabbed the majority.
Let's recap, shall we, dumbass?
- Rightards controlled Congress for 12 of the past 14 years
- Rightards had the White House for 20 of the past 28 years
- Rightards COMPLETELY controlled the gov for 6 of the past 8 years
You sissies drop responsibility faster than Sara Palin's daughter
drops her panties. Sad.
insane...@yahoo.com
> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
badly as the GOP has. Never!
James Of Tucson
> What fantasy land do you Right Wing Weasels live in?
> We've had 2 years of Democrat control of congress
Nobody controls Congress without 290 House seats and 67 Senate seats.
Gandalf Grey
<insane...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:89d6eee4-0926-46d5...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
==============================================
GOP minions like Blackwater are earnestly hoping that people will forget
that little fact.
insane...@yahoo.com
> <insane.mcc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
They sure do run from responsibility, don't they? Fucking pussies.
snipe
> On Oct 6, 9:16 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <insane.mcc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-
e385a2...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
>>
>> > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>>
>> > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>>
>> well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
>> badly as the GOP has. Never!
>> ==============================================
>>
>> GOP minions like Blackwater are earnestly hoping that people will
>> forget that little fact.
>
> They sure do run from responsibility, don't they? Fucking pussies.
Fucking hypocrites is what they are. They're always running off at the
mouth about how everyone else should take personal responsibility, but
when *they* screw up they always try to blame it on someone else.
Harold Burton
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles under librul rule.
Snicker.
Harold Burton
<89d6eee4-0926-46d5...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
insane...@yahoo.com wrote:
Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
Gandalf Grey
<insane...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d551ca4-15b5-4747...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
============================================
You can always tell when the repubs are set to lose: they suddenly forget
that they're republicans and start being proud of being "real
conservatives."
Gandalf Grey
"snipe" <windo...@windowsuks.invalid> wrote in message
news:DbWdnX41m480VHfV...@supernews.com...
Republicans are noted for denying what they are when the shit hits the fan.
Chris Mathews caught it perfectly when he noted that the republicans are now
like a losing team trying to put on different uniforms in the middle of the
game.
Gandalf Grey
"Harold Turdton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-668E...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfV...@earthlink.com>,
> "Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>>
>> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
>
> Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles
Have some cheese with your whine, Turdboy?
bval...@aol.com
<g...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> bvall...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 2:55 pm, Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 6, 4:15 pm, "bvall...@aol.com" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Oct 6, 11:13 am, "House of Pancakes" <J...@wh.net> wrote:>
> >> > <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >> > >news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> >> > > On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:>
> >> > > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> >> > > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> >> > > .
> >> > > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> >> > > fine until they grabbed the majority.
> >> > .
> >> > > And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep.
>
> >> > .
> >> > Nope. The Democrats, when warned about the coming disaster, folded
> >> > their hands and basically said "there's no problem"
>
> >> > Coma? No,
> > .
> >> And you repugs had years to fix the problems.
> > .
> > We tried.
>
> The Republicans are so pathetic they failed in Afghanistan,
Except that we're still running the place, while the Taliban hides in
caves.
.
> they failed in Iraq,>
.
Even Obama admits that the surge was a huge success.
.
> they failed to regulate the sales of boutique mortgage-backed derivatives, they
> failed to regulate the issuance of credit-default swaps.
Seventeen. That's how many times, according to this White House
statement (hat tip Gateway Pundit), that the Bush administration has
called for tighter regulation of the government-sponsored enterprises
(GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Congress has cooperated only once.
In spring 2007, as House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney
Frank likes to point out, the House did pass a bill in response. The
Senate did not act until 2008; Senate Banking Committee Chairman
Christopher Dodd spent most of 2007 camped out in Iowa running for
president. The legislation passed by Congress in 2008 enabled Treasury
Secretary Henry Paulson to put Fannie and Freddie into federal
conservatorship this summer when they failed. But it didn't prevent
them from spewing a huge amount of toxic waste, in the form of
subprime and Alt-A mortgages, into our financial institutions from
2004 to 2007. As Stephen Spruiell points out in The Corner on National
Review Online, Fannie and Freddie spewed out $1 trillion worth (face
value) of subprime mortgages between 2005 and 2007. That's a whole lot
of toxic waste. For more detail, consult the items referred to in my
previous blogpost on this subject (most of the comments seem to have
been disputes about the plot line of the movie It's a Wonderful Life,
which I should think could be settled by consulting a reference work).
Much if not all of that could have been prevented by a bill
cosponsored by John McCain and supported by all the Republicans and
opposed by all the Democrats in the Senate Banking Committee in 2005.
That bill, which the Democrats stopped from passing, would have
prohibited the GSEs from speculating on the mortgage-based securities
they packaged. The GSEs' mission allegedly justifying their quasi-
governmental status was to package or securitize such mortgages, but
the lion's share of their profits—which determined top executives'
bonuses—came from speculation.
John McCain has shied away from making this an issue, for reasons my
U.S. News colleague Jim Pethokoukis speculates on. This National
Republican Congressional Committee Web ad makes the point McCain has
been avoiding. Jim Geraghty of the Campaign Spot blog at National
Review Online seems exasperated by the McCain campaign's failure to
exploit this issue. Excerpts:
Why can't John McCain and Sarah Palin make the points about how
the crisis was built illustrated in the "Burning Down the House" (with
the revised music) YouTube video? Could McCain please, please bring up
some of this in Tuesday's debate?
Don't the American people deserve to know that Democrat Barney
Frank, then ranking member and now chairman of the House Financial
Services Committee, said, "I want to roll the dice a little bit more
in this situation towards subsidized housing"? Isn't the fact that the
ranking Democrat in charge of oversight of Fannie Mae was in a sexual
relationship with a high-ranking Fannie Mae executive a glaring
conflict of interest? Isn't it worth noting that Democratic Rep.
Maxine Waters insisted, "we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and
in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr.
Frank Raines"? Shouldn't the American people know that Democratic Rep.
Gregory Meeks insist that "there's been nothing that was indicated
that's wrong with Fannie Mae"?
If nothing else, shouldn't we salute Democratic Rep. Artur Davis
for saying, "Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to
appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their
efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I
should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004.
Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to
Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong."
I talked with Artur Davis in the Speaker's Lobby Friday during the
vote on the financial bailout/rescue package. He reiterated what he
said here, and he also makes the fair point that Republicans made some
mistakes too. As for the reference Geraghty makes to the fact that
Barney Frank's partner Herb Moses worked at Fannie Mae, I think we
should keep in mind the fact that Frank and Moses broke up in 1988 and
that Moses quit working at Fannie Mae at about the same time. As far
as I'm concerned, that's ancient history.
Any other softballs that you'd like knocked out of the park?
insane...@yahoo.com
> In article
> <89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-e385a2678...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
> > > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> > > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
> > well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
> > badly as the GOP has. Never!
>
> Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
Apples and oranges, dumbass. Only a rightard would point to other
countries to excuse the way THEY fucked this country up so bad!
insane...@yahoo.com
> "snipe" <windowss...@windowsuks.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:DbWdnX41m480VHfV...@supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:22:22 -0700, insane.mccain wrote:
>
> >> On Oct 6, 9:16 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> <insane.mcc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>> news:89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-
> >>> On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
>
> >>> > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> >>> > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
> >>> well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
> >>> badly as the GOP has. Never!
> >>> ==============================================
>
> >>> GOP minions like Blackwater are earnestly hoping that people will
> >>> forget that little fact.
>
> >> They sure do run from responsibility, don't they? Fucking pussies.
>
> > Fucking hypocrites is what they are. They're always running off at the
> > mouth about how everyone else should take personal responsibility, but
> > when *they* screw up they always try to blame it on someone else.
>
> Republicans are noted for denying what they are when the shit hits the fan.
> Chris Mathews caught it perfectly when he noted that the republicans are now
> like a losing team trying to put on different uniforms in the middle of the
> game.
They're still wearing the brown shirts underneath.
nys999
@news.east.earthlink.net:
> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
>
Doesn't count. Because GOP is the acronym for Greedy Old Pervert party.
You lose, Karl.
nys999
news:48ea8e0f...@news.east.earthlink.net:
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:13:48 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>>news:48ea8b2f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:52:47 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:48ea815a...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:47:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>>>>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:48ea7712...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>> Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm afraid for you that it is, old buddy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your party is toast. And YES, Blackwater, you are a GOP.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm ... my registration card says "Lib" .... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, DNC is *not* the opposite of GOP. The two
>>>>> parties are SO much alike they're often called
>>>>> 'Republicrats'.
>>>>
>>>>Only by republicans trying to muddy the waters when they know
>>>>they're going
>>>>down in an election year.
>>>>
>>>>Republicans like you.
>>>
>>> Ah ... so it's all an illusion ... the Dems are actually
>>> *special* ... above realpolitik ...............
>>
>>False analogy. The Dems not being the GOPs is not equivalent to the
>>Dems being "above realpolitik.." anymore than the GOP being the GOP
>>"because" it's not above realpolitik. Realpolitik is a tertiary term
>>you're dragging in to again distort the issue.
>>
>>If you want to argue, then argue, but don't blow rhetorical smoke at
>>me.
>
>
> Translation from libspeak : "You GOT me !". :-)
Translation from Rove-speak: Pretend I had a response
>
> Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
> Ain't much. They take their bribes from pretty much the
> same people. Serve themselves first and The People last,
> just like Republicans. They're deep into every problem
> we've got, side by side with their GOP bretheren.
>
> Oh wait, I remember ONE difference ... when the GOP said
> Fannie/Freddie needed serious regulatin' a few years ago,
> the Dems said "No ! Everything's fine ! Hands Off !".
Ummm, yeah, U-betcha...why? Cuz Bushian regulators said everything was
fine.
Come back when you have real counter-arguments, not typical Rove-speak.
Winston Smith, American Patriot
>
> <insane...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4d551ca4-15b5-4747...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.
> .. On Oct 6, 9:16 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <insane.mcc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:89d6eee4-0926-46d5...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com.
>> .. On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
>>
>> > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>>
>> > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>>
>> well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
>> badly as the GOP has. Never!
>> ==============================================
>>
>> GOP minions like Blackwater are earnestly hoping that people will
>> forget that little fact.
>
> They sure do run from responsibility, don't they? Fucking pussies.
Buck-passing really began with Reagan, and was elevated to an art form by
an idiot who actually hoped to emulate an average president (Reagan) whose
own administration was FILLED WITH SCANDAL!! Bush at least emulated
Reagan with respect to scandal.
> ============================================
>
> You can always tell when the repubs are set to lose: they suddenly
> forget that they're republicans and start being proud of being "real
> conservatives."
Especially the "reformers" who come from backwoods places like Alaska, you
know, non-midwestern places with midwestern values.
--
The real danger to the future of humanity is the preference
for surrendering to fear, superstition, and faith
in absolutist belief systems, and so to submit to these
willingly and to the control of those demagogues who
make use of these, rather than preferring
to reason with one's own mind.
nobody
Utopia <g...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>number6 wrote:
>
>> On Oct 6, 1:01 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>>>
>>> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>>>
>>
>> Things sort of went into the toilet though ... when the Democrats took
>> over Congress ...
>
>AWOL Bush vetoed every Democratic bill.
And which vetoed bills would have prevented the current crisis?
Kevin Cunningham
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:13:48 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
> >news:48ea8b2f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> >> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:52:47 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
> >> <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:48ea815a...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> >>>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:47:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
> >>>> <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:48ea7712...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>
> >>>>>> The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
>
> >>>>>Your party is toast. And YES, Blackwater, you are a GOP.
>
> >>>> Hmmm ... my registration card says "Lib" .... :-)
>
> >>>> Anyway, DNC is *not* the opposite of GOP. The two
> >>>> parties are SO much alike they're often called
> >>>> 'Republicrats'.
>
> >>>Only by republicans trying to muddy the waters when they know they're
> >>>going
> >>>down in an election year.
>
> >>>Republicans like you.
>
> >> Ah ... so it's all an illusion ... the Dems are actually
> >> *special* ... above realpolitik ...............
>
> >False analogy. The Dems not being the GOPs is not equivalent to the Dems
> >being "above realpolitik.." anymore than the GOP being the GOP "because"
> >it's not above realpolitik. Realpolitik is a tertiary term you're dragging
> >in to again distort the issue.
>
> >If you want to argue, then argue, but don't blow rhetorical smoke at me.
>
> Translation from libspeak : "You GOT me !". :-)
>
> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
> Ain't much. They take their bribes from pretty much the
> same people. Serve themselves first and The People last,
> just like Republicans. They're deep into every problem
> we've got, side by side with their GOP bretheren.
>
> Oh wait, I remember ONE difference ... when the GOP said
> Fannie/Freddie needed serious regulatin' a few years ago,
> the Dems said "No ! Everything's fine ! Hands Off !".
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
>
> for evidence of that claim.
>
> Gee ... I wonder who was getting the biggest 'donations'
> from the lending industry ?
>
> The big dif between Republican and Democratic pols ? They
> blame DIFFERNET PEOPLE for all our woes - hoping we won't
> notice that it's THEY THEMSELVES who are actually responsible.
Sorry, Charlie, the repugs love closeted homos while one of their
political games is that homos are bad people, evil in fact. Repugs
have played the abortion card for decades yet never done any thing
about it even when they held absolute power. The repugs are making
vain attempts right now to say that they wanted to reform Fannie and
Freddie, well, you had absolute power and did nothing with it. And
then the feces hit the air movement facility and you had to
nationalize a brokerage house, Fannie and Freddie and AIG Insurance.
Way to go, open market fan.
Kevin Cunningham
Poor widdle BV! He still thinks the surge was a success. Were
getting kicked out of Iraq and he thinks we won. If its a success why
not go to Iraq and just walk around, all by yourself, no weapons, no
armor. Wanna try?
Now go take a time out.
Kevin Cunningham
> In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn...@earthlink.com>,
> "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles under librul rule.
>
> Snicker.
Hey, idiot, how little you know. In France you have paid for health
care, functional road and bridges, art, culture, and a relatively good
economy. Oh, not that this impacts you, and very competent schools.
This hold true through out the EU. For instance in Denmark you get
free schooling for as long as you want. No problems in Denmark.
If we get the flu, as were about to, idiot, the Europeans will get a
small cold.
Blackwater
<hanar...@archangels.mil> wrote:
>"Blackwater" <b...@barrk.net> wrote in message
>news:48ea8e0f...@news.east.earthlink.net...
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKGyhiE7SE
>
>I can play that game too...
Not very well.
One candidate making a general statement is NOT
equal to a room full of reps discussing an issue
in-depth.
The in-depth debate clearly shows that the GOP was
worried and wanted to act - wheras Dems said "No !
Dirt-poor immigrants might not be able to get loans
for that mansion they deserve !!!".
>> I'll refer you to :
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
>>
>> for evidence of that claim.
>>
>> Gee ... I wonder who was getting the biggest 'donations'
>> from the lending industry ?
>>
>> The big dif between Republican and Democratic pols ? They
>> blame DIFFERNET PEOPLE for all our woes - hoping we won't
>> notice that it's THEY THEMSELVES who are actually responsible.
>>
>
>...but both sides are of the same coin.
Ah ... NOW you're beginning to get a hint :-)
Same rusty corrupted old coin - 'Dem' and 'GOP' barely
mean anything anymore (if ever).
>So what is to be done besides voting
>all the scumbags out ?
Nothing.
The ball is in OUR park, so to speak. The managers of
the system are too corrupt, too vested in the status-quo,
to really fix anything. Ergo, they've gotta go - and we
need to accept the short-term downsides to that in order
to realize the greater long-term good.
>I certainly dont see voting for a third part president
>is realistic, so it has to be one or the other main bum.
Too late for the presidential race - it's locked in.
Maybe next time.
I don't think we need to go 3rd-party so much as we need
a shock treatment. You can vote GOP or DNC ... just vote
for someone who's NOT an incumbent.
It takes a certain amount of TIME for pols to become
corrupted, vested and get their closets well-stocked
with skeletons. The PLAN should be to create a window
of opportunity ... a large majority of new boys with
a mandate to immediately fix what's most broken.
Neither the usual 'interests' or the respective party
machines are gonna be able to control them. It will take
years for the new bosses to become as bad as the old -
but we'll have our anti-corruption and economic management
laws by then.
I suppose the goal is "secure capitalism". Not 'socialism'
per-se nor laizzez-faire ... but mechanisms to address what
we know can go seriously WRONG with capitalism. The idea
is to preserve as much of the benifits of capitalism but
keep key points stable enough to avoid severe boom/bust
cycles in the future.
The solution isn't gonna be a book of static regs - writ
and put on a shelf - but a more DYNAMIC regulatory body
that can detect and control NEW ways that things are going
to hell. Fixes made after the '29 depression dealt with
THOSE ways things could go to hell - but couldn't cope
with the NEW ways businesses, bankers and citizens found
to really screw things up.
I've suggested the FDA as an example (albeit imperfect) of
a "dynamic" regulatory body. They didn't quit inventing
medicines in 1945, so a panel of experts IS required to
deal with every new thing. When 'dot.com' crazes phase
into real-estate and sub-prime crazes - SOMEONE with
authority needs to step in and say "Party's OVER Kids"
before real damage is done.
As for regulating pols ... all 'donations' MUST be
deemed the same as BRIBES. That's cash, cash-equivalents,
property, favors for relatives ... pretty much anything
except dinner and a movie. Some kind of federal campaign
fund will be needed of course ... x-million for 'worthy'
candidates (watch out for 'worthy' being manipulated
however) and that's that.
>Stanley in Illinois: "Lou, if God wanted man to vote, he would have given us
>a candidate." That has to be one of my favorite. Let me repeat that: "Lou,
>if God wanted man to vote, he would have given us a candidate."
That's pretty damned good. :-)
Blackwater
<vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Clam Bake" <iluv...@spamme.com> wrote in message
>news:e99le459l38lr8dmm...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:52:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
>>> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
>>
>>> No, no, my little artless dodger, YOU were the one who asserted they're
>>> the
>>> same. It's up to you to demonstrate that there is no point by point
>>> difference between the two parties.
>>
>> But he has a point. We've all heard a lot of Bush and republican
>> bashing but absolutely, positively NOTHING about what the democrats
>> will do differently or better. Nothing at all. So let's hear their
>> plans.
>
>That's crap. Obama has talked constantly about specific plans
??? Obama ??? Specific plans ????
Doesn't happen. :-)
Often SOUNDS as if it does ... but, on analysis ...
Oh, and he'd have to convince his corrupted do-nothing
congress to go along with his big 'plans' .....
>and specific
>areas of difference. McCain has promised changed but hasn't pointed out one
>area where he'll be any different from Bush.
Nope. Pretty much the same - except he will HAVE to
do something about the economic debacle instead of
worry about foreign wars. The real war is HERE now.
If America crumbles from within, our enemies have
indeed won and it makes no DIFFERENCE what happens
in Afghanistan.
Oh well, anyone sane KNEW a 'debt economy' was just
a pyramid scheme that simply could not last forever.
It had to break sometime - and that time is now. All
the imaginary money, debts banks ASSUMED would be
paid eventually, has turned to smoke. We'll have to
rebuild using REAL money instead - and that's a good
thing.
We'll also need to FLUSH the damned congress and
senate as much as possible ... because so long as
they're full of the same old corrupted twits we
won't see ANYTHING done to protect OUR interests.
Gandalf Grey
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:27:33 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Clam Bake" <iluv...@spamme.com> wrote in message
>>news:e99le459l38lr8dmm...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:52:14 -0700, "Gandalf Grey"
>>> <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Put away the rhetoric and pretentions for a moment and
>>>> tell me what Dems DO that's so different from Repubicans.
>>>
>>>> No, no, my little artless dodger, YOU were the one who asserted they're
>>>> the
>>>> same. It's up to you to demonstrate that there is no point by point
>>>> difference between the two parties.
>>>
>>> But he has a point. We've all heard a lot of Bush and republican
>>> bashing but absolutely, positively NOTHING about what the democrats
>>> will do differently or better. Nothing at all. So let's hear their
>>> plans.
>>
>>That's crap. Obama has talked constantly about specific plans
>
> ??? Obama ??? Specific plans ????
BZZZZT!!!! No Sale. Another dodge just puts you back on your face.
Again. Demonstrate that there is no point by point difference between the
two parties.
That's what you have to demonstrate at this point. And you're not going to
be able to do it.
bval...@aol.com
> > Even Obama admits that the surge was a huge success.
.
> Poor widdle BV! He still thinks the surge was a success.
So does Obama, Caroline.
WBY...@ireland.com
>Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
>The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
You're right - the opposite is honest.
WB Yeats
Harold Burton
<b535c538-6e3b-4361...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
insane...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Oct 6, 10:54 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-e385a2678...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
> > > > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
> >
> > > > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
> >
> > > well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
> > > badly as the GOP has. Never!
> >
> > Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
>
> Apples and oranges, dumbass.
Apples and apples, dumbass.
Harold Burton
<4b688a23-d553-4815...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 10:53 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn...@earthlink.com>,
> > "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
> >
> > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
> >
> > Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles under librul rule.
> >
> > Snicker.
>
> Hey, idiot, how little you know. In France you have paid for health
> care, functional road and bridges, art, culture, and a relatively good
> economy....
Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Relatively good compared to what?
Gandalf Grey
Two different continents isn't apples and apples, Turdboy.
Have some cheese with your whine?
Harold Burton
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Harold Turdton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hal.i.burton-668E...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfV...@earthlink.com>,
> > "Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
> >>
> >> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
> >
> >
> > Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles
>
> Have some cheese with your whine, Turdboy?
What whine?
Gandalf Grey
Relatively good compared to the meltdown your boy Bush has brought to
America, Turdboy.
Have some cheese with your whine?
Gandalf Grey
How are those sour grapes tasting, Turdboy?
4787 Dead
America's.
Kevin Cunningham
Show us were and when the evil dems encouraged "Dirt-poor
immigrants..." to get loans. Tell us which banks gave loans to
people with no money and "Dirt-poor immigrant....". Oh, and quote the
law that let dems do all this hiddeous stuff. And which lending firms
were dem.
You claim to be a Libertarian, actually your a repug who has already
left the sinking ship.
Kevin Cunningham
trans: I'm in favor of a dictatorship led by me!
Kevin Cunningham
The US, idiot. Take a look at the stock market today.
To bad, moron, every thing you repugs supported has proved to be
wrong. Your repug administration has nationalized a brokerage,
Fannie, Freddie and AIG. Wow, now that's a free market!
Harold Burton
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Two different continents...
...doesn't change the fact that conservatives in the US aren't fucking
things up any more than libruls in Europe are.
But please....continue your partisan whining.
Snicker.
Harold Burton
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Harold Turdton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hal.i.burton-A033...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > In article <C_KdnfmUO4q6T3fV...@earthlink.com>,
> > "Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Harold Turdton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:hal.i.burton-668E...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfV...@earthlink.com>,
> >> > "Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
> >> >>
> >> >> A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles
> >>
> >> Have some cheese with your whine, Turdboy?
> >
> >
> > What whine?
>
> How are those sour grapes tasting...
You're in a position to tell us.
Snicker.
Harold Burton
<f8d4a935-0dd8-4f1a...@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Oct 7, 4:12 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4b688a23-d553-4815-8918-83be79916...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 6, 10:53 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn...@earthlink.com>,
> > > > "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
> >
> > > > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
> >
> > > > Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles under librul rule.
> >
> > > > Snicker.
> >
> > > Hey, idiot, how little you know. In France you have paid for health
> > > care, functional road and bridges, art, culture, and a relatively good
> > > economy....
> >
> > Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Relatively good compared to what?
> The US...
Hahahahahahaha, now THAT's funny.
Harold Burton
4787 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
Hahahahahahah. Now THAT's funny!
Snicker.
Harold Burton
"Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
> America...
...except it's not so, but please, continue your partisan whining.
Snicker.
Gandalf Grey
> In article <38SdnQqnud4IX3bV...@earthlink.com>,
> "Gandalf Grey" <vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Harold Turdton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hal.i.burton-48C6...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>> > In article
>> > <b535c538-6e3b-4361...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>> > insane...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Oct 6, 10:54 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > In article
>> >> > <89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-e385a2678...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >
>> >> > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> > > On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
>> >> > > > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>> >> >
>> >> > > > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>> >> >
>> >> > > well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up
>> >> > > as
>> >> > > badly as the GOP has. Never!
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
>> >>
>> >> Apples and oranges, dumbass.
>> >
>> >
>> > Apples and apples, dumbass.
>>
>> Two different continents...
>
>
>
> ...doesn't change the fact
Of course it does, moron.
Have some cheese with your whine, Turdboy?
Gandalf Grey
to laugh at you, Turdboy.
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-4308...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
America catches cold...the world get pneumonia.
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-AE1F...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
Out of touch...just a like McCain
Gandalf Grey
except nothing, Turdboy.
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-E326...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
Out of touch...just like McCain
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-1696...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
Like McCain...out of touch
4787 Dead
Where do you think the financial crisis came FROM, Harry?
4787 Dead
<hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <qvhne4hdb1abar2mn...@4ax.com>,
> 4787 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:12:13 -0400, Harold Burton
>> <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><4b688a23-d553-4815...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>> > Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Oct 6, 10:53 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > In article <OvudnWBRYr0R2XfVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn...@earthlink.com>,
>> >> > "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>> >> >
>> >> > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe, but better off than Europe in shambles under librul rule.
>> >> >
>> >> > Snicker.
>> >>
>> >> Hey, idiot, how little you know. In France you have paid for health
>> >> care, functional road and bridges, art, culture, and a relatively good
>> >> economy....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Relatively good compared to what?
>>
>> America's.
>
>
>Hahahahahahah. Now THAT's funny!
Never been abroad, have you?
>
>
>Snicker.
i_hate...@yahoo.com
> On Oct 6, 1:01 pm, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> over Congress ...
Only because GWBush stopped critical legislation with vetoes, and not
enough Republicans were willing to cross the aisle. Don't ever forget
it was the 109th congress - both houses ruled by republicans, under
Bush - that was correctly called the 'do nothing congress'. That all
will change after the 2008 election.
Both houses of Congress will be Democratic majority and Obama will be
in the White House. Oh, it's not going to be pretty, by any means,
because some very choices will have to be made. Particularly to
address how the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations are REALLY going to
be paid for - that has been "on the credit card" for the most part,
and to determine how this corporate welfare bailout will be paid for.
Enjoy your coming 12, 16, or 20 years out of power, Repugs, you earned
it by your blind faith in your unworthy hero GWBush.
i_hate...@yahoo.com
> On Oct 6, 11:13 am, "House of Pancakes" <J...@wh.net> wrote:> <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:b886a3a5-feac-491a...@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 6, 10:01 am, "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:> Published on Saturday, October 4, 2008 by Salon.com
>
> > > A Country in Shambles, Under GOP Rule
>
> > The problem is that the Democrats control both houses. We were doing
> > fine until they grabbed the majority.
> .
> > And what was wrong with Congress for 12 years before? Asllep.
>
> .
> Nope. The Democrats, when warned about the coming disaster, folded
> their hands and basically said "there's no problem"
>
> Coma? No,
>
>
>
> > they were busy setting up this bullshit for Bush and his base.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You choose to conveniently ignore (or forget) that gas was $1.40 a
gallon in 2002. The next year the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan
started. And, just at the point the occupations started, the US
dollar started to falter in the world market.
Also, it takes a lot of petrol to support the occupations of Iraq and
Afghanistan. Don't forget that Dick Cheney's Halliburton - the
receiver of a no-bid contract - gets a stipend for each and every
gallon of gas used for "the war effort".
You jack booted nazi thugs of the RepugliKan party just fail to
recognize these things though.
Harold Burton
<ac6ca4c1-3dcf-48bb...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
i_hate...@yahoo.com wrote:
> You jack booted nazi thugs of the RepugliKan party just fail to
> recognize these things though.
Care for some cheese with that whine?
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-80A4...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
It's the truth. McSame offers nothing new.
"That one" will be president!
Harold Burton
"Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
You certainly are:
<http://www.24hgold.com/viewarticle.aspx?langue=en&articleid=326210_Europ
ean_Government_s_Panic_Triggers_Stock_Market_Crash_Nadeem_Walayat>
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,530010,00.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/euro-s18.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7656099.stm
Snicker.
Sid9
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hal.i.burton-7951...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
"That one" is going to be president!
Snicker, my ass!
Steve
wrote:
Actually, it came from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, under the tutelage
of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, deciding that people shouldn't have to
be qualified to get a mortgage..
Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own
highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be
earned.
_Ayn Rand "ATLAS SHRUGGED"
Sid9
"Steve" <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
message
news:cnpqe45lki24ke3nh...@4ax.com...
Bullshit...it started with St. Ronnie.....except
for the eight Clinton years the Republicans had
America living on credit.
Steve
Nothing wrong with credit as long as the people who borrow can and do
pay it back.. the trouble started when Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac,
under the tutelage of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, decided that people
Kevin Cunningham
> In article <38SdnQqnud4IX3bVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdn...@earthlink.com>,
> "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Harold Turdton" <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:hal.i.burton-48C6...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > > In article
> > > <b535c538-6e3b-4361-9166-2911d6f7c...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > >> On Oct 6, 10:54 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > In article
> > >> > <89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-e385a2678...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > >> > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> > > On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
> > >> > > > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> > >> > > > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
> > >> > > well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
> > >> > > badly as the GOP has. Never!
>
> > >> > Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
>
> > >> Apples and oranges, dumbass.
>
> > > Apples and apples, dumbass.
>
> > Two different continents...
>
> ...doesn't change the fact that conservatives in the US aren't fucking
> things up any more than libruls in Europe are.
>
> But please....continue your partisan whining.
>
> Snicker.
So tell us all how disgusting is the economic system in Europe? The
Danes really have problems, woops, my bad, most Danes are middle
class. Same in Germany, France, ....oh, wait, its true in all of old
Europe.
Please keep on showing your ignorance. Its kinda like having a
dancing bear, when we want amusement we tell the bear to dance.
Kevin Cunningham
>
> i_hate_gwb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > You jack booted nazi thugs of the RepugliKan party just fail to
> > recognize these things though.
>
> Care for some cheese with that whine?
Dancing Bear (I really like that name!) tell us how your repug
government supports the free market by nationalizing AIG, Fannie,
Freddie and a brokerage house. Today the fed said they might buy
chunks of banks, nationalize them.
Gotta love these free marketeers!
Kevin Cunningham
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:56:11 -0700, 4787 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:36:57 -0400, Harold Burton
>
> >>In article <38SdnQqnud4IX3bVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdn...@earthlink.com>,
> >> "Gandalf Grey" <valino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>news:hal.i.burton-48C6...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> >>> > In article
> >>> > <b535c538-6e3b-4361-9166-2911d6f7c...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>> >> On Oct 6, 10:54 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >> > In article
> >>> >> > <89d6eee4-0926-46d5-8dc2-e385a2678...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >>> >> > insane.mcc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> >> > > On Oct 6, 4:38 pm, b...@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote:
> >>> >> > > > Aw ... how cute ... he thinks the DNC's gonna fix it all ...
>
> >>> >> > > > The opposite of GOP is *not* DNC.
>
> >>> >> > > well, one thing's for sure -- the DNC has NEVER fucked things up as
> >>> >> > > badly as the GOP has. Never!
>
> >>> >> > Maybe not, but their idols ruling the Euros have.
>
> >>> >> Apples and oranges, dumbass.
>
> >>> > Apples and apples, dumbass.
>
> >>> Two different continents...
>
> >>...doesn't change the fact that conservatives in the US aren't fucking
> >>things up any more than libruls in Europe are.
>
> >Where do you think the financial crisis came FROM, Harry?
>
> Actually, it came from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, under the tutelage
> of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, deciding that people shouldn't have to
> be qualified to get a mortgage..
>
How could that happen when you repugs held both houses of congress and
the presidency. You had absolute power and we see the results.
How bizarre, we dems were so strong even with out power that we just
took over Fannie and Freddie. Of course the virtuous repugs were in
the back ground doing there free market thing. And we can see the
free market results daily in the stock market.
Balanced View
Well the whole republican mythology revolves around victim hood, the
true patriots that could save
the country from bogeymen, but are being held back by Liberal media,
Homosexuals, spotted owls
and trees. Like Nixon, their paranoia keeps them from examining the
reasons for their downfall....
themselves
Steve
Frank has been pushing them to reduce requirements for a long time...
Don't the American people deserve to know that Democrat Barney
Frank, then ranking member and now chairman of the House Financial
Services Committee, said, "I want to roll the dice a little bit more
in this situation towards subsidized housing"? Isn't the fact that the
ranking Democrat in charge of oversight of Fannie Mae was in a sexual
relationship with a high-ranking Fannie Mae executive a glaring
conflict of interest? Isn't it worth noting that Democratic Rep.
Maxine Waters insisted, "we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and
in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr.
Frank Raines"? Shouldn't the American people know that Democratic Rep.
Gregory Meeks insist that "there's been nothing that was indicated
that's wrong with Fannie Mae"?
If nothing else, shouldn't we salute Democratic Rep. Artur Davis
for saying, "Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to
appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their
efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I
should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004.
Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to
Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong."
Lamont Cranston
George W. Bush and his neocons are socialists. Who'd a
thunk?
bval...@aol.com
> > > Even Obama admits that the surge was a huge success.
.
> > Poor widdle BV! He still thinks the surge was a success.
.
> So does Obama, Caroline.
.
(crickets)
Sid9
"Steve" <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
message
news:031se410d3c0mqjt6...@4ax.com...
Bush,jr REPUBLICAN sign a law in 2003 permitting
these abuses.
In 2003 Republicans controlled all parts of our
government.
This shit started in St. Ronnie's regime with
their philosopher Grover Norquist
Sid9
"Steve" <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
message
news:2vmre4t34kngfd7pa...@4ax.com...
More bullshit!
it takes TAXES to pay it back....bush,jrs war is
UNFUNDED and not in the budget deficit