Mick McCarthy not Irish, says Keane shock
Robert Henderson
crap player and a crap manager.
" The only reason I have any dealings with you is that, somehow, you
are the manger of my country and you are not even Irish. You can stick
it up your b******s." Dublin Evening Herald reporting, supposedly
verbatim, Roy Keane's words in front of the entire Irish squad which
caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
Irish, having played for the Republic through his ancestry, a fantasy
Celt as it were. He is just one in a long line of Englishmen to have
played for Ireland. The present squad includes these Englishmen:
McAteer, Reid, Holland, Connolly, Dean Keilly (goal), Finnan, Kelly
(goal).
The fantasy Celt is beginning to undermine not only the Irish team, but
the other Celtic sides, Scotland, Wales and NI. These are increasing
full of Englishmen. For example, Scotland have Sultan, Elliott, Matteo,
Hutchinson, Alexander and Stockdale.
The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
sides. Qualification should be through parents plus substantial
residence in the country for which the person plays during childhood.
The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
he had Irish ancestry. RH
--
Robert Henderson
phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
Zer0
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>variety.
Just as Sven Goran Erikson is Swedish. In business, it's called
globalisation.
And, let's face it: football is business.
Zer0
abelard
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
typed:
>The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
>are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
>a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
>sides.
now remind me....where have i seen that view expressed before....
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service now active
logic, power, ethics, education, etc ~400,000 doc calls yearly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for I walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that I a big stick.
good people do nothing I trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Muiris Mag Ualghairg
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> The fantasy Celt is beginning to undermine not only the Irish team, but
> the other Celtic sides, Scotland, Wales and NI. These are increasing
> full of Englishmen. For example, Scotland have Sultan, Elliott, Matteo,
> Hutchinson, Alexander and Stockdale.
>
> The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
> are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
> a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
> sides.
You fail to realise that he is Irish - that's how Ireland's laws regard
anybody who has an Irish grandparent. Nowadays the foreign born children of
a person born in Ireland is automtically a citizen of Ireland (from the
point of birth). Their children have to be registered with the state to
ensure their citizenship (a way of keeping tabs on who is and isn't a
citizen). When Mick McCarthy was born he will have been born a full citizen
of Ireland. He may be English as well but it doesn't stop him being Irish.
I wonder where Mr Keane's own children were born (as he lives in England)
and whether he would consider them to be Irish - which I am sure that he
would do.
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 07/05/02
Robert Henderson
<abe...@abelard.org> writes
>On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:05:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>
> typed:
>
>>The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
>>are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
>>a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
>>sides.
>
>now remind me....where have i seen that view expressed before....
>
>
Robert Henderson
Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> The fantasy Celt is beginning to undermine not only the Irish team, but
>> the other Celtic sides, Scotland, Wales and NI. These are increasing
>> full of Englishmen. For example, Scotland have Sultan, Elliott, Matteo,
>> Hutchinson, Alexander and Stockdale.
>>
>> The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
>> are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
>> a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
>> sides.
>
>You fail to realise that he is Irish - that's how Ireland's laws regard
>anybody who has an Irish grandparent.
I am well aware of the legal position. That is not the point,
Nationality is about more than legal right it is about emotional
commitment and cultural imprinting. RH
>Nowadays the foreign born children of
>a person born in Ireland is automtically a citizen of Ireland (from the
>point of birth). Their children have to be registered with the state to
>ensure their citizenship (a way of keeping tabs on who is and isn't a
>citizen). When Mick McCarthy was born he will have been born a full citizen
>of Ireland. He may be English as well but it doesn't stop him being Irish.
>
>I wonder where Mr Keane's own children were born (as he lives in England)
>and whether he would consider them to be Irish - which I am sure that he
>would do.
>
But would Irishmen? RH
>
>---
>
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.362 / Virus Database: 199 - Release Date: 07/05/02
>
>
--
Francis Kane
> McAteer, Reid, Holland, Connolly, Dean Keilly (goal), Finnan, Kelly
> (goal).
Glad you consider Reid English given your usual tripe on non-whites.
>
Andy
> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> he had Irish ancestry.
As usual you can't even get your facts right, it was Tony Cascarino,
stuart...@nospam.hotmail.com
>The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
>Irish, having played for the Republic through his ancestry, a fantasy
>Celt as it were. He is just one in a long line of Englishmen to have
>played for Ireland. The present squad includes these Englishmen:
>McAteer, Reid, Holland, Connolly, Dean Keilly (goal), Finnan, Kelly
>(goal).
WRONG again I see. McCarthy's father is Irish.
There goes your whole post.
Stu
W Cormack
"Francis Kane" <francis_wi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:acoarc$r4g$1...@news1.xs4all.nl...
> The present squad includes these Englishmen:
> > McAteer, Reid, Holland, Connolly, Dean Keilly (goal), Finnan, Kelly
> > (goal).
>
> Glad you consider Reid English given your usual tripe on non-whites.
Ah, I wonder how Boob the Bigot will answer that one?
>
> >
> Andy
> > Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> > he had Irish ancestry.
>
> As usual you can't even get your facts right, it was Tony Cascarino,
You mean Cantscorino as he was known when he played in Scotland?
Joe
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>"Who the f**k do you think you are, having meetings about me? You were a
>crap player and a crap manager.
>
>" The only reason I have any dealings with you is that, somehow, you
>are the manger of my country and you are not even Irish. You can stick
>it up your b******s." Dublin Evening Herald reporting, supposedly
>verbatim, Roy Keane's words in front of the entire Irish squad which
>caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>
The insults are flowing back and forth following this Keane affair.
In the story below, one Irish columnist over reacts to a little Daily
Mail rib tickling. It's all very amusing.
Paddy-bashing paper in tune with own thuggish fans
The Irish Independent, Sat, May 25 '02
http://tinyurl.com/7n2
Joe
abelard
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
typed:
>In article <a03veu4q7p6cd5p6d...@4ax.com>, abelard
><abe...@abelard.org> writes
>>On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:05:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
>><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>>
>> typed:
>>
>>>The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
>>>are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
>>>a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
>>>sides.
>>
>>now remind me....where have i seen that view expressed before....
>From any sane commentator.
i'm sure it wasn't that....
does it follow that any 'commentator' who believes in such
a proposition is sane?
> Insufficient memory causing you problems?
not so's you'd notice....
regards.
Robert Henderson
<abe...@abelard.org> writes
>
>>From any sane commentator.
>
>i'm sure it wasn't that....
>
>does it follow that any 'commentator' who believes in such
> a proposition is sane?
>
No, it follows that any sane commentator holding that view is sane. RH
>> Insufficient memory causing you problems?
>
>not so's you'd notice....
>
>regards.
--
Blewyn
news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> he had Irish ancestry. RH
I look forward with eagerness to the implementation of any solution you may
have to this 'problem', and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
in the Welsh team. ;-)
Blewyn
Robert Henderson
asebtinternet.com> writes
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>
>> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
>> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
>> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
>> he had Irish ancestry. RH
>
>I look forward with eagerness to the implementation of any solution you may
>have to this 'problem',
A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
> and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
>in the Welsh team. ;-)
>
Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
RH
>Blewyn
Tom Whipple
Zer0
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
Erm.....it's close to the border? ;)
Zer0
Robert Henderson
<tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>Your solution?
>
>
A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
Tom Whipple
> In article <acqol8$pe$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Tom Whipple
> <tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
> >Your solution?
> >
> >
> A change to the FIFA qualification rules.
Yes, what change?
Blewyn
> In article <acqbsa$k83$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Blewyn <blewyn@nospample
> asebtinternet.com> writes
> >"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> >
> >> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
> >> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
> >> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> >> he had Irish ancestry. RH
> >
> >I look forward with eagerness to the implementation of any solution you
may
> >have to this 'problem',
>
> A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
> complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
>
> > and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
> >in the Welsh team. ;-)
> >
>
> Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
> RH
Er..because he's Welsh ?
Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
Blewyn
blue
Robert Henderson wrote:
> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>
> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
> Irish,
As far as I know McCarthy is Irish like Cliff Richard is English.
Roy seems to be highly strung because of the tension
of the forth coming world cup. Perhaps he felt he was
carrying the team. It probably didn't help that Man U has
spoilt him some what, so that when certain things are not
as good as he's used to he blows his top. Though he
doesn't seem the sort for a good ol belly laugh and
probably has some manic issues.
A good footballer should be able to cope with the tension
and not have an eight minute slanging match at your
manager which disturbed him and the players, that is not
being a good footballer. It is the manager who has to
protect all his players, the opposition and the public from
a bully and if he thinks he's out of control then he has to walk.
stuart...@nospam.hotmail.com
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <acqol8$pe$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Tom Whipple
><tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>>Your solution?
>>
>>
>A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
>complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
MICK MCARTHY'S FATHER IS IRISH.
Stu
stuart...@nospam.hotmail.com
>
>
>Robert Henderson wrote:
>
>> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>>
>> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
>> Irish,
>
>As far as I know McCarthy is Irish like Cliff Richard is English.
MICK MCARTHY'S FATHER IS IRISH.
Stu
Robert Henderson
asebtinternet.com> writes
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:oPqAfrAk...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <acqbsa$k83$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Blewyn <blewyn@nospample
>> asebtinternet.com> writes
>> >"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> >
>> >> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
>> >> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
>> >> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
>> >> he had Irish ancestry. RH
>> >
>> >I look forward with eagerness to the implementation of any solution you
>may
>> >have to this 'problem',
>>
>> A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
>> complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
>>
>> > and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
>> >in the Welsh team. ;-)
>> >
>>
>> Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
>> RH
>
>Er..because he's Welsh ?
>
Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
is obviously English. RH
>Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
No. But if they are born there and are accepted as English by the
English, they are English. RH
Robert Henderson
<tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:5ryEWhAG...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <acqol8$pe$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Tom Whipple
>> <tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>> >Your solution?
>> >
>> >
>> A change to the FIFA qualification rules.
>
>Yes, what change?
>
There could be several. Parents. Qualification through upbringing in the
country for which the person plays. No dual nationality allowed, ie the
person wishing to play for a country must hold the nationality of that
country and no other. RH
Robert Henderson
writes
>
>
>Robert Henderson wrote:
>
>> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>>
>> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
>> Irish,
>
>As far as I know McCarthy is Irish like Cliff Richard is English.
>
Er...I don't follow your logic. Harry Webb is English. RH
>Roy seems to be highly strung because of the tension
>of the forth coming world cup.
Damn all to do with that. He is just a spoilt child. RH
> Perhaps he felt he was
>carrying the team. It probably didn't help that Man U has
>spoilt him some what, so that when certain things are not
>as good as he's used to he blows his top. Though he
>doesn't seem the sort for a good ol belly laugh and
>probably has some manic issues.
>
>A good footballer should be able to cope with the tension
>and not have an eight minute slanging match at your
>manager which disturbed him and the players, that is not
>being a good footballer. It is the manager who has to
>protect all his players, the opposition and the public from
>a bully and if he thinks he's out of control then he has to walk.
>
Quite. It is noticeable that about the only person defending Keane is
Eamon Dumphy, his biographer. RH
W Cormack
> In article <3CF14237...@ntlworld.com>, blue <bl...@ntlworld.com>
> writes
> >
> >
> >Robert Henderson wrote:
> >
> >> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
> >>
> >> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
> >> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
> >> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
> >> Irish,
> >
> >As far as I know McCarthy is Irish like Cliff Richard is English.
> >
>
> Er...I don't follow your logic. Harry Webb is English. RH
Not born in England.
Emas Refugee
> In article <a03veu4q7p6cd5p6d...@4ax.com>, abelard
> <abe...@abelard.org> writes
> >On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:05:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
> ><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> typed:
> >
> >>a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
> >>sides.
> >
> >now remind me....where have i seen that view expressed before....
> >
> From any sane commentator. Insufficient memory causing you problems?
Oh dear, Bob, I think abelard was making a subtle reference to a
German political movement of the mid-twentieth century. One of their
more controversial ideas was based on the notion of a single
grandparent.
Of course it was subtle and naturally you missed it completely.
Emas Refugee
> In article <L%MH8.3419$Uk6.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Muiris
> Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
> >
> >anybody who has an Irish grandparent.
>
> I am well aware of the legal position. That is not the point,
That's one way of looking at it. The other is that nation states are
political entities and nationality lies within their gift.
> Nationality is about more than legal right it is about emotional
> commitment and cultural imprinting. RH
Of course these are objective factors that can be readily assessed to
determine if the individual is indeed of a particular nationality.
Blewyn
Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
> >Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
>
> No. But if they are born there
So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to English
parents ? Are they English ?
> and are accepted as English by the
> English, they are English. RH
Who decides who's acceptable by the English ? You ? Do you all have a vote
on each person as they arrive ?
Blewyn
Robert Henderson
<w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <acslt5$t01$1...@helle.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
><w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>
>>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:evNNniA7...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>> In article <3CF14237...@ntlworld.com>, blue <bl...@ntlworld.com>
>>> writes
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Robert Henderson wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>>> >>
>>> >> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>>> >> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>>> >> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
>>> >> Irish,
>>> >
>>> >As far as I know McCarthy is Irish like Cliff Richard is English.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Er...I don't follow your logic. Harry Webb is English. RH
>>
>>Not born in England.
>>
>>
>Irrelevant. It is parentage and upbringing which count. RH
So you accept that Michael Owen is Welsh?
Emas Refugee
> In article <L%MH8.3419$Uk6.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Muiris
> Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
> >I wonder where Mr Keane's own children were born (as he lives in England)
> >and whether he would consider them to be Irish - which I am sure that he
> >would do.
>
> But would Irishmen? RH
I rather think that would depend on whether they were as bigotted as
you.
Of course you would have to check that the Irishmen in question were
really Irishmen as defined by the Henderson criterion. As this seems
to boil down to asking other Irishment here is something of a fatal
recursion in your test and it can be discarded as unworkable.
Robert Henderson
Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
>Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<AelarUAGG6
>78E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <a03veu4q7p6cd5p6d...@4ax.com>, abelard
>> <abe...@abelard.org> writes
>> >On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:05:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
>> ><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> typed:
>> >
>> >>Allowing qualification through
>> >>a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
>> >>sides.
>> >
>> >now remind me....where have i seen that view expressed before....
>> >
>> From any sane commentator. Insufficient memory causing you problems?
>
>Oh dear, Bob, I think abelard was making a subtle reference to a
>German political movement of the mid-twentieth century. One of their
>more controversial ideas was based on the notion of a single
>grandparent.
>
I was continuing my commentary on the problems Abelard experiences as an
ancient valve operated computer.
Of course it was subtle and naturally you missed it completely. RH
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>
>> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
>> is obviously English. RH
>
>Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
>and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
>
>> >Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
>>
>> No. But if they are born there
>
>So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to English
>parents ? Are they English ?
>
Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do not
become Chinese. RH
>> and are accepted as English by the
>> English, they are English. RH
>
>Who decides who's acceptable by the English ?
The English. RH
> You ? Do you all have a vote
>on each person as they arrive ?
The English indicate their acceptance or otherwise by their behaviour
towards each person. RH
Robert Henderson
>78E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <L%MH8.3419$Uk6.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Muiris
>> Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>> >
>> >You fail to realise that he is Irish - that's how Ireland's laws regard
>> >anybody who has an Irish grandparent.
>>
>> I am well aware of the legal position. That is not the point,
>
>That's one way of looking at it. The other is that nation states are
>political entities and nationality lies within their gift.
>
A state can give legal nationality to who it likes, it does not mean
that those given the legal nationality are accepted by the natives as
nationals. RH
>> Nationality is about more than legal right it is about emotional
>> commitment and cultural imprinting. RH
>
>Of course these are objective factors that can be readily assessed to
>determine if the individual is indeed of a particular nationality.
--
W Cormack
> In article <acsu26$n5s$2...@news0.ifb.net>, Blewyn <blewyn@SPAM-ME-
> NOTbtinternet.com> writes
> >
> >> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
> >> is obviously English. RH
> >
> >Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
> >and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
> >
> Who would want to be Welsh when they could be English? RH
>
> >> >Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
> >>
> >> No. But if they are born there
> >
> >So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to
English
> >parents ? Are they English ?
> >
> Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do not
> become Chinese. RH
Ah now we see Boob's bigotry unmasked. I assume that you will extend your
argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians who settle in England and also to
their descendants?
>
> >> and are accepted as English by the
> >> English, they are English. RH
> >
> >Who decides who's acceptable by the English ?
>
> The English. RH
Who are the English?
>
> > You ? Do you all have a vote
> >on each person as they arrive ?
>
> The English indicate their acceptance or otherwise by their behaviour
> towards each person. RH
And thankfully their attitude to immigrants is not repulsive racism. Unlike
yours.
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>
>>Irrelevant. It is parentage and upbringing which count. RH
>
>So you accept that Michael Owen is Welsh?
No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
upbringing and is accepted as English by the English. RH
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3cf2131a...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Joseph Hutcheon
><j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>>
>>>Irrelevant. It is parentage and upbringing which count. RH
>>
>>So you accept that Michael Owen is Welsh?
>
>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>upbringing
He was imbued with an English personality (whatever that may be) by
his Welsh parents?
>and is accepted as English by the English. RH
I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
it played football as well as Michael Owen.
Robert Henderson
<w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:JFzoNVAC...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <acsu26$n5s$2...@news0.ifb.net>, Blewyn <blewyn@SPAM-ME-
>> NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>> >
>> >> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
>> >> is obviously English. RH
>> >
>> >Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
>> >and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
>> >
>> Who would want to be Welsh when they could be English? RH
>>
>> >> >Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
>> >>
>> >> No. But if they are born there
>> >
>> >So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to
>English
>> >parents ? Are they English ?
>> >
>> Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do not
>> become Chinese. RH
>
>Ah now we see Boob's bigotry unmasked. I assume that you will extend your
>argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians who settle in England and also to
>their descendants?
>
>>
>> >> and are accepted as English by the
>> >> English, they are English. RH
>> >
>> >Who decides who's acceptable by the English ?
>>
>> The English. RH
>
>Who are the English?
>
We are the English. RH
>>
>> > You ? Do you all have a vote
>> >on each person as they arrive ?
>>
>> The English indicate their acceptance or otherwise by their behaviour
>> towards each person. RH
>
>And thankfully their attitude to immigrants is not repulsive racism.
No, it is race realism. RH
> Unlike
>yours.
>
>
Just like mine. RH
Robert Henderson
>78E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <L%MH8.3419$Uk6.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Muiris
>> Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>
>> >I wonder where Mr Keane's own children were born (as he lives in England)
>> >and whether he would consider them to be Irish - which I am sure that he
>> >would do.
>>
>> But would Irishmen? RH
>
>I rather think that would depend on whether they were as bigotted as
>you.
No, it would depend on whether they took them for Irish. the only true
test of nationality is whether one is accepted without question as being
part of the nation. If Keane's children are Irish, they should be able
to go to Ireland without anyone knowing who they are and be taken as
Irish. That is the only true test. RH
>
>Of course you would have to check that the Irishmen in question were
>really Irishmen as defined by the Henderson criterion. As this seems
>to boil down to asking other Irishment here is something of a fatal
>recursion in your test and it can be discarded as unworkable.
--
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>
>>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>>upbringing
>
>He was imbued with an English personality (whatever that may be) by
>his Welsh parents?
Well, that begs the question of how Welsh his parents are. Would they be
Welsh in the Ryan Giggs sense, a man who speaks with a pronounced
Mancunian accent? No matter, even if they are as Welsh as sheep, the
defining factor is the general ambience of Owen's upbringing and the
influence of his peers.
As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
from? RH
>
>>and is accepted as English by the English. RH
>
>I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
>it played football as well as Michael Owen.
Owen is a very obvious Englishman. RH
W Cormack
Who are "we"? Is that the Royal "we", Boob?
I notice that you failed to address the other question I asked you. So I'll
ask it again:
You said "Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do
not become Chinese. RH"
To which I asked:
I assume that you will extend your argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians
who settle in England and also to their descendants?
> >>
> >> > You ? Do you all have a vote
> >> >on each person as they arrive ?
> >>
> >> The English indicate their acceptance or otherwise by their behaviour
> >> towards each person. RH
> >
> >And thankfully their attitude to immigrants is not repulsive racism.
>
> No, it is race realism. RH
The vast majority of the English are a tolerant and welcoming people. You,
however, are in the tiny minority.
> > Unlike
> >yours.
> >
> >
> Just like mine. RH
No. You are a bigot. Unlike the majority.
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
>with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
>from? RH
It's not 'very pronounced', it's a Wales/Cheshire borders 'plastic
scally' accent. Robbie Fowler's got a 'very pronounced Scouse
accent', but Owen certainly hasn't..
Robert Henderson
<w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>Who are "we"? Is that the Royal "we", Boob?
>
No, the English "We". RH
>I notice that you failed to address the other question I asked you. So I'll
>ask it again:
>
>You said "Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do
>not become Chinese. RH"
>
>To which I asked:
>
>I assume that you will extend your argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians
>who settle in England and also to their descendants?
I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
gerald.copp
"Robert Henderson" wrote:
You spewed over the wall Scotch broth, when you can find Prince Obeleski's
English grandparents and the English grandparents of all those Afrikaans
Oxbridge scholars who played rugby for England, then please write back and
we can talk about Mike Catt, Dorian West, Steve Bates, Dewi Morris, Keiron
Bracken, Chris Oti, VictorUbogu, Steve Ojomo, Rory Underwood, Tony
Underwood, Jamie Salmon, Simon Halliday, Nigel Redman, Alan Lamb, Caddick,
Croft, Simon Jones, Jeff Jones, Nasser Hussein, Mike Denness, Tony
Lewis -even Lord Hawke!
in message news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> "Who the f**k do you think you are, having meetings about me? You were a
> crap player and a crap manager.
>
> " The only reason I have any dealings with you is that, somehow, you
> are the manger of my country and you are not even Irish. You can stick
> it up your b******s." Dublin Evening Herald reporting, supposedly
> verbatim, Roy Keane's words in front of the entire Irish squad which
> caused Mick McCarthy to send him home.
>
> The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
> course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
> variety. However, the liberal bigot creed is that McCarthy is in fact
> Irish, having played for the Republic through his ancestry, a fantasy
> Celt as it were. He is just one in a long line of Englishmen to have
> played for Ireland. The present squad includes these Englishmen:
> McAteer, Reid, Holland, Connolly, Dean Keilly (goal), Finnan, Kelly
> (goal).
>
> The fantasy Celt is beginning to undermine not only the Irish team, but
> the other Celtic sides, Scotland, Wales and NI. These are increasing
> full of Englishmen. For example, Scotland have Sultan, Elliott, Matteo,
> Hutchinson, Alexander and Stockdale.
>
> The whole point of national sides is that they are full of people who
> are true nationals in the emotion sense. Allowing qualification through
> a single grandparent is making a mockery of the very idea of national
> sides. Qualification should be through parents plus substantial
> residence in the country for which the person plays during childhood.
>
> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> he had Irish ancestry. RH
W Cormack
> In article <acthn4$k4j$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
> <w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >Who are "we"? Is that the Royal "we", Boob?
> >
>
> No, the English "We". RH
A fine body of people of which you are not representative.
>
> >I notice that you failed to address the other question I asked you. So
I'll
> >ask it again:
> >
> >You said "Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they
do
> >not become Chinese. RH"
> >
> >To which I asked:
> >
> >I assume that you will extend your argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians
> >who settle in England and also to their descendants?
>
> I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you are
a racist.
gerald.copp
> In article <acthn4$k4j$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
> <w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >Who are "we"? Is that the Royal "we", Boob?
> >
>
> No, the English "We". RH
>
> >I notice that you failed to address the other question I asked you. So
I'll
> >ask it again:
> >
> >You said "Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they
do
> >not become Chinese. RH"
> >
> >To which I asked:
> >
> >I assume that you will extend your argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians
> >who settle in England and also to their descendants?
>
> I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position
Don't you mean Matthew Ap Harris, the well-know Welsh whatever he is?
gerald.copp
> In article <acqbsa$k83$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Blewyn <blewyn@nospample
> asebtinternet.com> writes
> >
> >> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie Jones
> >> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and Andy
> >> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely that
> >> he had Irish ancestry. RH
> >
may
> >have to this 'problem',
>
> A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
> complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
>
> > and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
> >in the Welsh team. ;-)
> >
>
> Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
You daft Scotch faggot and peas, he did play for Wales and all his scoring
records beat those of the likes of Ian Rush and Gary Speed.
gerald.copp
"Robert Henderson" wrote:
> It is parentage and upbringing which count. RH
So we're back to the Welsh parentage, Welsh up-bringing (not to mention
Welsh caps and Welsh scoring records) of Michael Owen, then?
W Cormack
"gerald.copp" <gerald.copp@localhost> wrote in message
news:9RuI8.1179$2O2.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Tut tut. Scottish. Not Scotch please. he may have doubts about himself -
he doesn't know if he's a doctor or a nurse but he definitely isn't a bottle
of whisky!
W Cormack
"gerald.copp" <gerald.copp@localhost> wrote in message
Robert Henderson
<w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
>> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
>> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
>
>I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you are
>a racist.
So, Matthew Parris and Brown Alibi are racists? RH
Robert Henderson
gerald.copp <gerald.copp@localhost.?> writes
>
>> Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
>
>You daft Scotch faggot and peas, he did play for Wales
When? RH
>and all his scoring
>records beat those of the likes of Ian Rush and Gary Speed.
Two fantasy Welshmen with broad Wirral accents. RH
Emas Refugee
> A state can give legal nationality to who it likes, it does not mean
> that those given the legal nationality are accepted by the natives as
> nationals. RH
So what? If a few (And despite what you might like to think, Bob, they
are a very few) bigots don't accept people who have a right to live
and work in a particular place then that's their problem. If they
cause trouble then it is they who should be punished.
Emas Refugee
> In article <98f13f40.02052...@posting.google.com>, Emas
> Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<FO2bfIALE6
> >78E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> >> In article <L%MH8.3419$Uk6.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Muiris
> >> Mag Ualghairg <mui...@ntlworld.com> writes
>
> >> >I wonder where Mr Keane's own children were born (as he lives in England)
> >> >and whether he would consider them to be Irish - which I am sure that he
> >> >would do.
> >>
> >> But would Irishmen? RH
> >
> >I rather think that would depend on whether they were as bigotted as
> >you.
>
> No, it would depend on whether they took them for Irish.
Which in turn depends on how bigotted you are amongst other things.
> the only true
> test of nationality is whether one is accepted without question as being
> part of the nation.
By people who are part of the nation, who in turn were accepted by
people who were part of the nation, who in turn.....
> If Keane's children are Irish, they should be able
> to go to Ireland without anyone knowing who they are and be taken as
> Irish. That is the only true test. RH
Nope, it's the *bigot's* only true test. Nationality is a politcial
construction.
Blewyn
> I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
Dear oh dear. I'm glad that most English people - the black and brown ones
included - don't think this way.
Blewyn
Blewyn
> In article <acsu26$n5s$2...@news0.ifb.net>, Blewyn <blewyn@SPAM-ME-
> NOTbtinternet.com> writes
> >
> >> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
> >> is obviously English. RH
> >
> >Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
> >and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
> >
> Who would want to be Welsh when they could be English? RH
LOL give a man enough rope....
So are you still in favour of your football reforms (ironically, I agree
completely, sport should be about national and regional competition, not
business) ?
Blewyn
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <actt60$jbm$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
><w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
>>> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
>>> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
>>
>>I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you are
>>a racist.
>
>So, Matthew Parris and Brown Alibi are racists? RH
Yep.
Blewyn
news:3cf239ff...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
> it played football as well as Michael Owen.
LOL
Blewyn
> In article <3cf239ff...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Joseph Hutcheon
> <j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
> >
> >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
> >>upbringing
Ha ha you're getting funnier and funnier RH...
> >He was imbued with an English personality (whatever that may be) by
> >his Welsh parents?
>
> Well, that begs the question of how Welsh his parents are.
How Welsh ? Are you going to bend your own proposed rules now to accommodate
good non-English players ? What'll it be, someone half English gets to play
for 45 minutes per game ?
> Would they be
> Welsh in the Ryan Giggs sense, a man who speaks with a pronounced
> Mancunian accent?
He's Welsh enough by the current rules..(the ones you want to change)..
> No matter, even if they are as Welsh as sheep,
Which ones, Welsh Mountain, Hampshire Downs, Suffolk Blackface or Texels ?
> the
> defining factor is the general ambience of Owen's upbringing and the
> influence of his peers.
Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies for
the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of thing,
not encourage it ?)
> As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
> with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
> from? RH
Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using an
Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes out)
> >>and is accepted as English by the English. RH
> >
> >I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
> >it played football as well as Michael Owen.
>
> Owen is a very obvious Englishman. RH
Hmm..is he ? What does that make Nasser Hussein ? Is he English ?
Blewyn
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3cf36096...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Joseph Hutcheon
><j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>>On Mon, 27 May 2002 20:25:59 +0100, Robert Henderson
>><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <actt60$jbm$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
>>><w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>>>I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
>>>>> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
>>>>> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
>>>>
>>>>I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you are
>>>>a racist.
>>>
>>>So, Matthew Parris and Brown Alibi are racists? RH
>>
>>Yep.
>So, you will be emailing them to tell them so? RH
Don't they read ukpm?
Marc Living
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>variety
He's better qualified (as an Irishman) than their last manager. And
half the team.
--
Marc Living (remove "bounceback" to reply)
"The first objective of any tyrant in Whitehall would be to make
Parliament utterly subservient to his will; and the next to overturn or
diminish trial by jury ..." Lord Devlin (http://www.holbornchambers.co.uk)
Zer0
"Joseph Hutcheon" <j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> wrote:
>Don't they read ukpm?
Matt Parris does on occasion.
If you're reading, Matt, how are the llamas? ;)
Zer0
W Cormack
> In article <actt60$jbm$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
> <w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
> >> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
> >> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
> >
> >I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you
are
> >a racist.
>
> So, Matthew Parris and Brown Alibi are racists? RH
No. *You* are a racist. Given that your claims have regularly been exposed
as false it is reasonable to suspect that any views you attribute to others
are also false.
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>On Tue, 28 May 2002 13:39:21 +0100, Robert Henderson
><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <3cf36096...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Joseph Hutcheon
>><j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>>>On Mon, 27 May 2002 20:25:59 +0100, Robert Henderson
>>><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <actt60$jbm$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
>>>><w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>>>>I take the Matthew Parris/ Yasmin Brown Alibi position on this, namely,
>>>>>> part of being English is being white. Asians and blacks may be British
>>>>>> but not English and, indeed, that is what they see themselves as. RH
>>>>>
>>>>>I am glad to see that you have finally had the courage to admit that you are
>>>>>a racist.
>>>>
>>>>So, Matthew Parris and Brown Alibi are racists? RH
>>>
>>>Yep.
>>So, you will be emailing them to tell them so? RH
>
>Don't they read ukpm?
Why take a chance, Joe. Get emailing. RH
Jack Sais
(in message <acsu26$n5s$2...@news0.ifb.net>):
> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:V$zPDVACT...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <acrb0e$1g3$4...@paris.btinternet.com>, Blewyn <blewyn@nospample
>> asebtinternet.com> writes
>>> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:oPqAfrAk...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>>> In article <acqbsa$k83$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Blewyn
> <blewyn@nospample
>>>> asebtinternet.com> writes
>>>>> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:+yIVwLAw$278...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The absurdity of the present situation is exemplified by Vinnie
> Jones
>>>>>> proclaiming himself Welsh (how many Welshmen think he is?) and
> Andy
>>>>>> Townsend who played 60 odd time for Ireland after claiming falsely
> that
>>>>>> he had Irish ancestry. RH
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward with eagerness to the implementation of any solution
> you
>>> may
>>>>> have to this 'problem',
>>>>
>>>> A change to the FIFA qualification rules. Failing that, a campaign of
>>>> complaint by fans against the dilution of their teams. RH
>>>>
>>>>> and the return of Michael Owen to his proper place
>>>>> in the Welsh team. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why would the Englishman Owen born in Chester, wish to play for Wales.
>>>> RH
>>>
>>> Er..because he's Welsh ?
>>>
>>
>> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
>> is obviously English. RH
>
> Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
> and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
>
>>> Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
>>
>> No. But if they are born there
>
> So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to English
> parents ? Are they English ?
>
>> and are accepted as English by the
>> English, they are English. RH
>
> Who decides who's acceptable by the English ? You ? Do you all have a vote
> on each person as they arrive ?
>
> Blewyn
>
>
It would appear that not only was Mr Owen born in England, he wants to play
for England. His choice, his nationality.
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Jack Sais
(in message <oHrANXAi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>):
> In article <actdiq$ido$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>, W Cormack
> <w.co...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>
>> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:JFzoNVAC...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>> In article <acsu26$n5s$2...@news0.ifb.net>, Blewyn <blewyn@SPAM-ME-
>>> NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>>>>
>>>>> Strange how he calls himself English, speaks with an English accent and
>>>>> is obviously English. RH
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it ? Especially when you consider that both his parents are Welsh,
>>>> and he was raised in Hawarden, Clwyd.
>>>>
>>> Who would want to be Welsh when they could be English? RH
>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying that anyone born in England is English ?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. But if they are born there
>>>>
>>>> So what about the English people born in Hong-Kong/Singapore/US to
>> English
>>>> parents ? Are they English ?
>>>>
>>> Yep, because their parentage and racial type ensures that they do not
>>> become Chinese. RH
>>
>> Ah now we see Boob's bigotry unmasked. I assume that you will extend your
>> argument to say, Pakistanis or Indians who settle in England and also to
>> their descendants?
>>
>>>
>>>>> and are accepted as English by the
>>>>> English, they are English. RH
>>>>
>>>> Who decides who's acceptable by the English ?
>>>
>>> The English. RH
>>
>> Who are the English?
>>
>
> We are the English. RH
No, sunshine, you're Henderson. "We" might apply if:
A) You're possessed, or
B) You have internal parasites.
The evidence you endlessly regurgitate here might support both options, but
*You* are *not* "the English".
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Jack Sais
(in message <Rv8O3KA$Qb88...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>):
> In article <acra09$ipd$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Tom Whipple
> <tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>>
>> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:5ryEWhAG...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>> In article <acqol8$pe$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Tom Whipple
>>> <tp...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>>>> Your solution?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> A change to the FIFA qualification rules.
>>
>> Yes, what change?
>>
>
> There could be several. Parents. Qualification through upbringing in the
> country for which the person plays. No dual nationality allowed, ie the
> person wishing to play for a country must hold the nationality of that
> country and no other. RH
Which is complicated in the UK since our nationality is British. Gives us all
four options, doesn't it...
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Jack Sais
(in message <acvo69$s4i$1...@news0.ifb.net>):
>
> Hmm..is he ? What does that make Nasser Hussein ? Is he English ?
>
> Blewyn
>
>
Don't start this revolting creep up on cricket - that's where he got the
encouragement for this nonsense in the first place with some racist shit
published in Wisden monthly many years ago about non-white players always
letting England down.
Robert Henderson
<engli...@wales.org> writes
>
>>
>> There could be several. Parents. Qualification through upbringing in the
>> country for which the person plays. No dual nationality allowed, ie the
>> person wishing to play for a country must hold the nationality of that
>> country and no other. RH
>
>
>Which is complicated in the UK since our nationality is British. Gives us all
>four options, doesn't it...
Nope. Because there are four separate territories and four separate
emotional nations. RH
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
> >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>> >>upbringing
>
>Ha ha you're getting funnier and funnier RH...
>
>> >He was imbued with an English personality (whatever that may be) by
>> >his Welsh parents?
>>
>> Well, that begs the question of how Welsh his parents are.
>
>How Welsh ? Are you going to bend your own proposed rules now to accommodate
>good non-English players ? What'll it be, someone half English gets to play
>for 45 minutes per game ?
>
>> Would they be
>> Welsh in the Ryan Giggs sense, a man who speaks with a pronounced
>> Mancunian accent?
>
>He's Welsh enough by the current rules..(the ones you want to change)..
>
>> No matter, even if they are as Welsh as sheep,
>
>Which ones, Welsh Mountain, Hampshire Downs, Suffolk Blackface or Texels ?
I don't think the Welsh are very particular about the breed. Any woolly
jumper in a storm seems to be their motto. RH
>
>> the
>> defining factor is the general ambience of Owen's upbringing and the
>> influence of his peers.
>
>Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies for
>the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of thing,
>not encourage it ?)
Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>
>> As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
>> with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
>> from? RH
>
>Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using an
>Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes out)
>
It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
>> >>and is accepted as English by the English. RH
>> >
>> >I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
>> >it played football as well as Michael Owen.
>>
>> Owen is a very obvious Englishman. RH
>
>Hmm..is he ? What does that make Nasser Hussein ? Is he English ?
Happily we have Hussein's own word for what he is, viz:
In an interview with Rob Steen published in the Daily
Telegraph 1/8/89 Hussein said 'If anyone asks about my
nationality, I'm
proud to say 'Indian', but I've never given any thought to
playing for India. In cricketing terms I'm English.'
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using an
>>Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes out)
>>
>
>It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
Nope. There are as many Hughes, Roberts and Evans in Liverpool as
there are Kellys, O'Reillys and Murphys. Granted there is a
Lancastrian element to some Scouse accents, but the guttural 'hard'
Scouse accent sounds more like Welsh than it does Lancastrian.
Robert Henderson
<black...@ntlworld.BOUNCEBACK.com> writes
>On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:05:20 +0100, Robert Henderson
><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The interesting thing here is "you are not even Irish..." He is of
>>course correct., McCarthy is a very obvious Englishman of the Yorkshire
>>variety
>
>He's better qualified (as an Irishman) than their last manager.
In what meaningful way? Both are very obvious Englishmen. RH
>And
>half the team.
>
Er...how? The English part of the team is qualified in the same way
that McCarthy was qualified. RH
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>On Wed, 29 May 2002 05:53:34 +0100, Robert Henderson
><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>>Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using an
>>>Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes out)
>>>
>>
>>It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
>
>Nope. There are as many Hughes, Roberts and Evans in Liverpool as
>there are Kellys, O'Reillys and Murphys.
And even more English names such as Fowler. RH
>Granted there is a
>Lancastrian element to some Scouse accents
No, all Scouse accents. RH
>, but the guttural 'hard'
>Scouse accent sounds more like Welsh than it does Lancastrian.
Northern "Welsh" accents are essentially English. RH
Joseph Hutcheon
<Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3cf4837e....@news.cis.dfn.de>, Joseph Hutcheon
><j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>>On Wed, 29 May 2002 05:53:34 +0100, Robert Henderson
>><Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using an
>>>>Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes out)
>>>>
>>>
>>>It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
>>
>>Nope. There are as many Hughes, Roberts and Evans in Liverpool as
>>there are Kellys, O'Reillys and Murphys.
>
>And even more English names such as Fowler. RH
>
>>Granted there is a
>>Lancastrian element to some Scouse accents
>
>No, all Scouse accents. RH
Nope. Easy to distinguish. Scousers with Lancastrian influence
pronounce book as 'bewk', those without pronounce book as 'buck'.
You're on my specialist subject here Robert. Stick to elite mischief.
>
>Northern "Welsh" accents are essentially English. RH
Rubbish.
Blewyn
> >
> >> No matter, even if they are as Welsh as sheep,
> >
> >Which ones, Welsh Mountain, Hampshire Downs, Suffolk Blackface or Texels
?
>
> I don't think the Welsh are very particular about the breed. Any woolly
> jumper in a storm seems to be their motto. RH
Oh dear oh dear you sad little man.
> >> the
> >> defining factor is the general ambience of Owen's upbringing and the
> >> influence of his peers.
> >
> >Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies for
> >the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of
thing,
> >not encourage it ?)
>
> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
So you *are* a racist. Quelle surprise. We'll just have to disagree flat
out on this one then.
> >> As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
> >> with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
> >> from? RH
> >
> >Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using
an
> >Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes
out)
> >
> It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
Haha yeah right, and I'm the King of Siam.
> >> >I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
> >> >it played football as well as Michael Owen.
> >>
> >> Owen is a very obvious Englishman. RH
> >
> >Hmm..is he ? What does that make Nasser Hussein ? Is he English ?
>
> Happily we have Hussein's own word for what he is, viz:
>
> In an interview with Rob Steen published in the Daily
> Telegraph 1/8/89 Hussein said 'If anyone asks about my
> nationality, I'm
> proud to say 'Indian', but I've never given any thought to
> playing for India. In cricketing terms I'm English.'
I didn't ask Nasser Hussein whether he was English or not, I asked you. Is
Nasser Hussein English ? If he were a footballer, should he be allowed to
play for England ?
Blewyn
Blewyn
news:01HW.B919D0730...@news.freeserve.net...
> > There could be several. Parents. Qualification through upbringing in the
> > country for which the person plays. No dual nationality allowed, ie the
> > person wishing to play for a country must hold the nationality of that
> > country and no other. RH
>
>
> Which is complicated in the UK since our nationality is British.
So they keep telling us...
Blewyn
Robert Henderson
<j.hut...@jisc.ac.uk> writes
>>
>>No, all Scouse accents. RH
>
>Nope. Easy to distinguish. Scousers with Lancastrian influence
>pronounce book as 'bewk', those without pronounce book as 'buck'.
>
be to distinguish between cockneys. Scouse has graduations of intensity
of accent and vocabulary but it is a recognisable single entity. RH
>You're on my specialist subject here Robert. Stick to elite mischief.
>
>>
>>Northern "Welsh" accents are essentially English. RH
>
>Rubbish.
>
Try a trip to Wrexham and tell me how many Welsh voices you hear. RH
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:9hxlkVAO...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> >
>> >> No matter, even if they are as Welsh as sheep,
>> >
>> >Which ones, Welsh Mountain, Hampshire Downs, Suffolk Blackface or Texels
>?
>>
>> I don't think the Welsh are very particular about the breed. Any woolly
>> jumper in a storm seems to be their motto. RH
>
>Oh dear oh dear you sad little man.
>
>> >> the
>> >> defining factor is the general ambience of Owen's upbringing and the
>> >> influence of his peers.
>> >
>> >Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies for
>> >the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of
>thing,
>> >not encourage it ?)
>>
>> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>
>So you *are* a racist.
I see, no argument against. RH
>Quelle surprise.
> We'll just have to disagree flat
>out on this one then.
>
>> >> As for North Wales being Welsh, that is something a joke. Owen speaks
>> >> with a very pronounced Scouse accent. Where do you think he got that
>> >> from? RH
>> >
>> >Er...where do you think the Scouse accent comes from ? Duh ! (try using
>an
>> >Irish accent and North Welsh accent at the same time and see what comes
>out)
>> >
>> It is a Lancastrian accent modified by Irish elements. RH
>
>Haha yeah right, and I'm the King of Siam.
>
No, you are a Welsh woman who loves Wales so much she lives in England.
RH
>> >> >I think the English would accept a three-headed Martian as English if
>> >> >it played football as well as Michael Owen.
>> >>
>> >> Owen is a very obvious Englishman. RH
>> >
>> >Hmm..is he ? What does that make Nasser Hussein ? Is he English ?
>>
>> Happily we have Hussein's own word for what he is, viz:
>>
>> In an interview with Rob Steen published in the Daily
>> Telegraph 1/8/89 Hussein said 'If anyone asks about my
>> nationality, I'm
>> proud to say 'Indian', but I've never given any thought to
>> playing for India. In cricketing terms I'm English.'
>
>I didn't ask Nasser Hussein whether he was English or not, I asked you. Is
>Nasser Hussein English ?
No. By his own admission he is Indian. RH
> If he were a footballer, should he be allowed to
>play for England ?
No. RH
>
>Blewyn
Blewyn
> >> >Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies
for
> >> >the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of
> >thing,
> >> >not encourage it ?)
> >>
> >> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
> >
> >So you *are* a racist.
>
> I see, no argument against. RH
I don't need an argument against racism - it's fairly commonly accepted to
be an all-round bad thing. Like poo. (I'm quite enjoying this, can you tell
?).
> No, you are a Welsh woman who loves Wales so much she lives in England.
> RH
Eh ? I'm Welsh and I live in England (not being the xenophobic sort I find I
can get on here quite well), but what makes you think I'm a woman ?
> >I didn't ask Nasser Hussein whether he was English or not, I asked you.
Is
> >Nasser Hussein English ?
>
> No. By his own admission he is Indian. RH
>
> > If he were a footballer, should he be allowed to
> >play for England ?
>
> No. RH
Hmm...so a man who was born and raised in England can't play, but a man who
was born in England but raised in Wales, can (neither having English
ancestry, I presume). What is the criteria for allowing one to play for
England but not the other ?
Race. You sad little man.
Blewyn
Robin Carmody
news:1022597866.4691.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Maybe he can also tell us why becoming a city destroyed Derby.
Got an email read out by Jimmy Young about that, I did :).
Robin Carmody
--
Reporting for Usenet Politics from the Lab-Con knife-edge of South Dorset!
Robin Carmody
> On Mon, 27 May 2002 14:58:58 +0100, Robert Henderson wrote
> (in message <oHrANXAi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>):
>
> >>>
> >>> The English. RH
> >>
> >> Who are the English?
> >>
> >
> > We are the English. RH
>
> No, sunshine, you're Henderson. "We" might apply if:
>
> A) You're possessed, or
>
> B) You have internal parasites.
>
> The evidence you endlessly regurgitate here might support both options,
but > *You* are *not* "the English".
Basically RH thinks that anyone unlike him is not truly English, and cannot
see that this country has changed a bit in the last few decades. He thinks
of himself as a kind of absolute monarch (ie his use of the royal "we",
calling other people "subjects" etc.)
It is amusing to watch him squirming in this thread.
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>
>> I see, no argument against. RH
>
>I don't need an argument against racism - it's fairly commonly accepted to
>be an all-round bad thing. Like poo. (I'm quite enjoying this, can you tell
>?).
>
I see, standard liberal bigot refusal to debate. RH
>> No, you are a Welsh woman who loves Wales so much she lives in England.
>> RH
>
>Eh ? I'm Welsh and I live in England (not being the xenophobic sort I find I
>can get on here quite well), but what makes you think I'm a woman ?
>
The name and you have never denied it when people have treated you as
female. RH
>> >I didn't ask Nasser Hussein whether he was English or not, I asked you.
>Is
>> >Nasser Hussein English ?
>>
>> No. By his own admission he is Indian. RH
>>
>> > If he were a footballer, should he be allowed to
>> >play for England ?
>>
>> No. RH
>
>Hmm...so a man who was born
>and raised in England can't play, but a man who
>was born in England but raised in Wales,
Wales my eye. England by any other name. Most of his time will have been
spent on the Wirral. RH
>can (neither having English
>ancestry, I presume). What is the criteria for allowing one to play for
>England but not the other ?
>
>Race. You sad little man.
>
>Blewyn
>
>
--
Emas Refugee
> > >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
> >> >>upbringing
> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
personality' imbued by the upbringing?
Robert Henderson
Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
>Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9hxlkVAO7F
>98E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>
>> > >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>> >> >>upbringing
>
>> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>
>So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
>personality' imbued by the upbringing?
Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
the English. RH
Blewyn
> In article <98f13f40.02053...@posting.google.com>, Emas
> Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<9hxlkVAO7F
> >98E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> >
> >> > >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
> >> >> >>upbringing
> >
> >> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
> >
> >So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
> >personality' imbued by the upbringing?
>
> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
> the English. RH
Which English ?
Joseph Hutcheon
Robert Henderson.
Blewyn
news:3cf63bb8....@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On Thu, 30 May 2002 15:45:53 +0100, "Blewyn"
> >> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
> >> the English. RH
> >
> >Which English ?
>
> Robert Henderson.
Ha ha !
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
The Welsh are easily amused. Think sheep. RH
Robert Henderson
NOTbtinternet.com> writes
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:0ki3VtAA...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <98f13f40.02053...@posting.google.com>, Emas
>> Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
>> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:<9hxlkVAO7F
>> >98E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> >
>> >> > >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>> >> >> >>upbringing
>> >
>> >> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>> >
>> >So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
>> >personality' imbued by the upbringing?
>>
>> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
>> the English. RH
>
>Which English ?
>
>
The English. RH
Emas Refugee
> In article <98f13f40.02053...@posting.google.com>, Emas
> Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9hxlkVAO7F
> >98E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> >
> >> > >>No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
> >> >> >>upbringing
>
> >> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
> >
> >So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
> >personality' imbued by the upbringing?
>
> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
> the English. RH
You can speak for all the English now?
Blewyn
> >> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
> >> the English. RH
> >
> >Which English ?
> >
> >
>
> The English. RH
English people like Nasser Hussein, Lenny Henry, Nadia Sawalha, Trevor
MacDonald...?
Blewyn
Jack Sais
(in message <1x6nQLAj...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>):
> In article <01HW.B919D0730...@news.freeserve.net>, Jack Sais
> <engli...@wales.org> writes
>>
>>>
>>> There could be several. Parents. Qualification through upbringing in the
>>> country for which the person plays. No dual nationality allowed, ie the
>>> person wishing to play for a country must hold the nationality of that
>>> country and no other. RH
>>
>>
>> Which is complicated in the UK since our nationality is British. Gives us
>> all
>> four options, doesn't it...
>
> Nope. Because there are four separate territories and four separate
> emotional nations. RH
>
>
Ah, once again you speak for all. Unsurprisingly, as you're the most
egocentric person ever to have posted on USENET. What if you live on the
England/Wales border and are of N. Irish/Scottish parentage? Obviously
there'll be no doubt about it, under your bizarre illogic...
Jack Sais
(in message <ad2ugv$b7d$1...@news0.ifb.net>):
> "Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:6ONUveA8...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>>>> Er..OK..so an Indian child raised in Delhi by an anglophile qualifies
> for
>>>>> the English team ? (I thought you wanted to cut down on this sort of
>>> thing,
>>>>> not encourage it ?)
>>>>
>>>> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>>>
>>> So you *are* a racist.
>>
>> I see, no argument against. RH
>
> I don't need an argument against racism - it's fairly commonly accepted to
> be an all-round bad thing. Like poo. (I'm quite enjoying this, can you tell
> ?).
>
Blewyn, as someone from an agricultural area you should know that poo has at
least one use :-/
>> No, you are a Welsh woman who loves Wales so much she lives in England.
>> RH
>
> Eh ? I'm Welsh and I live in England (not being the xenophobic sort I find I
> can get on here quite well), but what makes you think I'm a woman ?
>
>>> I didn't ask Nasser Hussein whether he was English or not, I asked you.
> Is
>>> Nasser Hussein English ?
>>
>> No. By his own admission he is Indian. RH
>>
>>> If he were a footballer, should he be allowed to
>>> play for England ?
>>
>> No. RH
>
> Hmm...so a man who was born and raised in England can't play, but a man who
> was born in England but raised in Wales, can (neither having English
> ancestry, I presume). What is the criteria for allowing one to play for
> England but not the other ?
>
> Race. You sad little man.
>
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Jack Sais
(in message <0ki3VtAA...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>):
> In article <98f13f40.02053...@posting.google.com>, Emas
> Refugee <ema...@lycos.co.uk> writes
>> Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:<9hxlkVAO7F
>> 98E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>>
>>>>>> No, because he has been imbued with the English personality by his
>>>>>>> upbringing
>>
>>> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>>
>> So how does the racial type (Whatever that means) trump the 'English
>> personality' imbued by the upbringing?
>
> Because of the perception of others. He would not be seen as English by
> the English. RH
>
Well I think he's English, and he contributes a lot more to England than
shite like you ever could.
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Prof Chaos
> test of nationality is whether one is accepted without question as
> being part of the nation.
Says who?
Prof Chaos
>
> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
>
So, Owen IS Welsh?
Butters
> Nope. He would be Indian. Racial type trumps upbringing. RH
So, I take it that Owen's "racial type" is Welsh as he has Welsh parents.
So, that must trump his (in your opinion) English upbringing. So, by your
own logic, Owen is not English but Welsh.
Well done. I haven't seen many people on Usenet that can so quickly argue
himself into a corner.
Robert Henderson
<engli...@wales.org> writes
>
>Ah, once again you speak for all. Unsurprisingly, as you're the most
>egocentric person ever to have posted on USENET. What if you live on the
>England/Wales border and are of N. Irish/Scottish parentage? Obviously
>there'll be no doubt about it, under your bizarre illogic...
You chose which of the four nations to support. RH