Density + LRT = less crime
Baxter
Kohr Harlan, KOIN News 6
PORTLAND -- Business owners and neighbors in north Portland say life in
their neighborhood is looking up -- and the crime statistics prove it.
north PortlandIn north Portland this year, robbery is down 16 percent, rape
is down 13 percent and homicide is down 33 percent from a year ago.
Louie Corteese has watched life improve along North Lombard through his
restaurant window for the last 18 years. Corteese loves his food. He
expanded Nicola's Pizza and Pasta five years ago. He's one of a growing
number of thriving businesses in north Portland. He thinks the commercial
renaissance has chased away the drab surroundings and dope dealers of 15
years ago.
"I just think there's more foot traffic. There's more people out later.
There's not as many empty buildings as there were back then. It's not as
inviting for them to loiter."
Down the street, longtime Veterinarian Pete Davis says the St. Johns area is
in an upswing that's being fueled by new, younger professional homeowners.
"The crime is down. A lot of the old places are being remodeled and new
businesses are coming in. It is really much better," he said.
Resident Cheri McLaughlin points to the opening of a New Seasons grocery
store and revamped Fred Meyer as signs that positive commercial activity is
crowding out criminal activity.
"When you have that kind of a feel with MAX coming in up Interstate, it
changes your expectation of the place that you live," McLaughlin said.
http://www.koin.com/news.asp?ID=4859
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george conklin
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:11kelni...@corp.supernews.com...
> North Portland Crime Down, Neighborhood Looking Up
> Kohr Harlan, KOIN News 6
>
> PORTLAND -- Business owners and neighbors in north Portland say life in
> their neighborhood is looking up -- and the crime statistics prove it.
>
>
Crime is down all over the country. Your comments prove nothing. Crime
is still less in rural than urban areas, and less in suburban than cities.
Grow up Baxter.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> North Portland Crime Down, Neighborhood Looking Up
> Kohr Harlan, KOIN News 6
>
> PORTLAND -- Business owners and neighbors in north Portland say life in
> their neighborhood is looking up -- and the crime statistics prove it.
>
> north PortlandIn north Portland this year, robbery is down 16 percent, rape
> is down 13 percent and homicide is down 33 percent from a year ago.
And they are proud, proud that they have fewer murders, rapes and
robberies! They should be ashamed, ashamed that they have so many
murders rapes and robberies!
Property Crime Rates for 2002 (per 100k people, generally defined as
burglary, theft, and car theft):
Portland: 7,127
Thousand Oaks: 1,693
Violent Crime Rates for 2002 (per 100k people, generally defined as
murder, manslaughter, robbery, rape and agg assault):
Portland: 829
Thousand Oaks: 131
Crimes Against Humanity (expressed in the number of city planners):
Portland: 109
See all the crimes or choose your favorite crime:
http://www.gis.ci.portland.or.us/maps/police/
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-0DF8B9.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
I notice you don't post any links that would actually lead to your numbers.
Could this be part of the reason?
"Violent Crime increased approximately 27%"
http://www.ci.thousand-oaks.ca.us/city_hall/depts/police/crime_analysis.asp
You also don't indicate how many people are in Thousand Oaks. I selected a
point along the InterstateMAX line and found that in the last year there
were -zero- murders -- while Thousand Oaks had 1. Comparing the two areas,
TO had 50% more rapes/sexual assaults, etc.
Frankly, Cote, you're even becoming incompetent at your cherry-picking.
Baxter
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"george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
news:cLO1f.11782$q1....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
More meth labs in rural areas than in urban -- and meth is increasing, not
decreasing. Time for YOU to wake up.
Mark
> Crimes Against Humanity (expressed in the number of city planners):
> Portland: 109
I always thought that was expressed in politicians per 100K population.
Mark
george conklin
Once gain you are proving your ignorance Baxter.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
What an illiterate, ill informed, uneducated analysis. The page you
reference includes as the last line on the chart the 1,693 property
crime rate. Perhaps you will now retract your claim that my data are
inaccurate since you just confirmed some? Hardly, this isn't about the
quality of the data but rather your inability to accept the data purely
because it doesn't fit in your worldview.
Oh, and one reason why "violent crime" has gone up so much in T.O. is
because of a thing called prosecution inflation. The only statistically
valid change 2002-03 was "aggravated assault." What an officer in North
Portland wouldn't even log gets blown up into "aggravated assault" when
the Deputies in T.O. show up.
>
> You also don't indicate how many people are in Thousand Oaks.
Not necessary. Crime rates are reported as per 1000 population to make
such comparisons possible. I picked T.O. because the data are easily
accessible as even you discovered and it is the closest reporting agency
to my location.
> I selected a
> point along the InterstateMAX line and found that in the last year there
> were -zero- murders -- while Thousand Oaks had 1. Comparing the two areas,
> TO had 50% more rapes/sexual assaults, etc.
This from someone who just accused me of "cherry-picking" below? Come
on Leroy, even you can do better. I posted the crime map:
http://www.gis.ci.portland.or.us/maps/police/
And when I use it, I find lots of murders.
Interstate and N Liberty
N Michigan and N Skidmore
>
> Frankly, Cote, you're even becoming incompetent at your cherry-picking.
Frankly isn't in your vocabulary. You just keep getting nastier the
more you lose on these issues. Go back and look at the murders along
Interstate Ave where you claim "none" and when you're done get back and
in addition to your admitting error maybe you can start acting like a
decent human being. Pardon any who don't hold their breath.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-9D39DD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
>
> Oh, and one reason why "violent crime" has gone up so much in T.O. is
> because of a thing called prosecution inflation. The only statistically
> valid change 2002-03 was "aggravated assault." What an officer in North
> Portland wouldn't even log gets blown up into "aggravated assault" when
> the Deputies in T.O. show up.
Now we know you're pulling shit from your ass.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-9D39DD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> >
> > You also don't indicate how many people are in Thousand Oaks.
>
> Not necessary. Crime rates are reported as per 1000 population to make
> such comparisons possible. I picked T.O. because the data are easily
> accessible as even you discovered and it is the closest reporting agency
> to my location.
Knowing the total population is entirely necessary. The statistics become
completely distorted if the sample is too small.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote:
>
> > Oh, and one reason why "violent crime" has gone up so much in T.O. is
> > because of a thing called prosecution inflation. The only statistically
> > valid change 2002-03 was "aggravated assault." What an officer in North
> > Portland wouldn't even log gets blown up into "aggravated assault" when
> > the Deputies in T.O. show up.
>
> Now we know you're pulling shit from your ass.
So what are you pulling from yours, Leroy? Gerbils?
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-9D39DD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11kfu8m...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> >
> > You also don't indicate how many people are in Thousand Oaks.
>
> Not necessary. Crime rates are reported as per 1000 population to make
> such comparisons possible. I picked T.O. because the data are easily
> accessible as even you discovered and it is the closest reporting agency
> to my location.
Is TO a retirement community?
Actually, when we start looking for a real comparison, we find (for
instance) that Ventura County has a population of about a third of Portland,
and 24 murders for 2002
(http://www.fedstats.gov/mapstats/crime/county/06111.html) while Portland (3
times larger) had 20 murders for 2002
(http://portlandor.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm).
Better luck next time.
Baxter
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"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4348490B...@comcast.net...
No, Kozels - and then I flush them down the toilet.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh, and one reason why "violent crime" has gone up so much in T.O. is
> > > > because of a thing called prosecution inflation. The only statistically
> > > > valid change 2002-03 was "aggravated assault." What an officer in North
> > > > Portland wouldn't even log gets blown up into "aggravated assault" when
> > > > the Deputies in T.O. show up.
> > >
> > > Now we know you're pulling shit from your ass.
> >
> > So what are you pulling from yours, Leroy? Gerbils?
>
> No, Kozels - and then I flush them down the toilet.
Leroy's main problem is that he has an untreated RCI --
http://rectcraninversion.tripod.com/
Mark
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-9D39DD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
>> In article <11kfu8m...@corp.supernews.com>,
>>
>> >
>> > You also don't indicate how many people are in Thousand Oaks.
>>
>> Not necessary. Crime rates are reported as per 1000 population to make
>> such comparisons possible. I picked T.O. because the data are easily
>> accessible as even you discovered and it is the closest reporting agency
>> to my location.
>
> Is TO a retirement community?
>
> Actually, when we start looking for a real comparison, we find (for
> instance) that Ventura County has a population of about a third of
> Portland, and 24 murders for 2002
Road rage?
Mark
george conklin
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4348490B...@comcast.net...
Criminal gerbils, no doubt.
Jerry Rioux
753,197 vs 529,121 according to the 2000 Census. However, Ventura
County is the smallest suburban county in Greater Los Angeles sprawl,
and not a city or metro area in its own right.
Baxter
City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
depending on what all areas are included.
Bottom line is the fact that Cote was trying to compare two areas -vastly-
different in terms of population and type.
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"Jerry Rioux" <jerry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0uqik1hk4nsbmspk2...@4ax.com...
george conklin
You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
rates. Your propaganda a failure.
Sancho Panza
> City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
> depending on what all areas are included.
Be a man for once. Own up to the reality that your statement was deceptive:
Jerry Rioux
crime and 2) light rail can spur gentrification.
Those both make sense to me.
Del Paso Heights in Sacramento also had an upsurge when light rail
went through.
Lots of upscale development is also occuring near BART stations in the
Bay Area.
Jerry
Jerry Rioux
If there were no people, there would be no crime!
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 22:01:02 GMT, "george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu>
wrote:
>
>"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>news:11kj02g...@corp.supernews.com...
>> There's lots of ambiguity - the crime stats for Portland may be "Portland,
>> City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
>> depending on what all areas are included.
>>
>> Bottom line is the fact that Cote was trying to compare two areas -vastly-
>> different in terms of population and type.
>>
RJ
<jerry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>It sounds like the real stories are that 1) gentrification reduces
>crime and 2) light rail can spur gentrification.
In many cities, gentrification has been described as racist because it
displaces minorities.
RJ
Baxter
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"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4349932f$0$141$ad36...@news.netcarrier.net...
Check the Census Bureau for Portland-Salem CSMA and compare against Ventura
County -- and then do your own "owning up".
Baxter
a bit of crime - it just doesn't get reported to the "law".
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"Jerry Rioux" <jerry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d8jk19npe9k76gq9...@4ax.com...
Baxter
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"george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
news:yqg2f.12118$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:11kj02g...@corp.supernews.com...
> > There's lots of ambiguity - the crime stats for Portland may be
"Portland,
> > City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
> > depending on what all areas are included.
> >
> > Bottom line is the fact that Cote was trying to compare two
areas -vastly-
> > different in terms of population and type.
> >
>> > "Jerry Rioux" <jerry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:0uqik1hk4nsbmspk2...@4ax.com...
> >> Actually, Ventura County has more people than the City of Portland -
> >> 753,197 vs 529,121 according to the 2000 Census. However, Ventura
> >> County is the smallest suburban county in Greater Los Angeles sprawl,
> >> and not a city or metro area in its own right.
>
> You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
> are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
> rates. Your propaganda a failure.
>
You keep making that assertion, yet you never provide any proof of your
claim. Meantime, there are tons of examples of places where high density
results in -less- crime, and low density has high crime.
Sancho Panza
Oh, now you want to include Salem. In that case, include Salem and the rest
of the CSMA in your discussions about transportation financing and usage.
Talk about weasling and waffling and slip-sliding. Pick whatever set of
something suits and don't describe the ever-shifting but secret parameters.
Really forthright, huh!
Sancho Panza
> City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
> depending on what all areas are included.
>
> Bottom line is the fact that Cote was trying to compare two areas -vastly-
> different in terms of population and type.
Yup, Ventura has certainly got to be less lily white than Portland,
America's purest holier-than-thou whitest city.
Robert Cote
"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:11kjlt7...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4349932f$0$141$ad36...@news.netcarrier.net...
> > >
> > > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> > > news:11kj02g...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > There's lots of ambiguity - the crime stats for Portland may be
> > "Portland,
> > > > City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
> > > > depending on what all areas are included.
> > >
> > > Be a man for once. Own up to the reality that your statement was
> > deceptive:
> > >
> > > "Ventura County has a population of about a third of Portland"
> >
> > Check the Census Bureau for Portland-Salem CSMA and compare against
> > Ventura County -- and then do your own "owning up".
>
> Oh, now you want to include Salem. In that case, include Salem and the rest
> of the CSMA in your discussions about transportation financing and usage.
> Talk about weasling and waffling and slip-sliding. Pick whatever set of
> something suits and don't describe the ever-shifting but secret parameters.
> Really forthright, huh!
Baxter is the appropriate example of the entire planning class. All
conclusion and no data.
John Mara
> You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
> are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
> rates. Your propaganda a failure.
Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year. In
2005 there were murders in the Berkshire County, Massachusetts towns of
Stockbridge (pop. 2275), Becket (pop. 1755) and Washington (pop. 544).
The murder rates in these towns are: Washington 184/100,000, Becket
57/100,000 and Stockbridge 44/100,000.
Washington and Becket are totally rural. Stockbridge is a toursit trap
with a cute little Main Street made famous in a Norman Rockwell painting.
Washington and Becket have no transit. Stockbridge has hourly local bus
service and a bus a few times a day to New York.
John Mara
Scott M. Kozel
>
> george conklin wrote:
>
> > You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
> > are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
> > rates. Your propaganda a failure.
>
> Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year.
So can large cities. 2,750 in Manhattan on 9-11-2001.
John Mara
But 2,750/8,000,000 X 100,000 gives a murder rate of 34/100,000, still
lower than the examples I gave.
John Mara
Robert Cote
John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Per DAY John, per DAY. An example of Baxter's problem. It isn't a
statistically valid operation. Neither is the 0, 0, 1, 0, 2 murders in
Thousand Oaks in recent years. When the numbers are very large or very
small it requires longer time spans to even out sparse data. This is
also why the very long times and very large number of events makes the
density:crime correlate so very solid.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> > Scott M. Kozel wrote:
> > > John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> george conklin wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
> > >>>are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
> > >>>rates. Your propaganda a failure.
> > >>
> > >>Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year.
> > >
> > > So can large cities. 2,750 in Manhattan on 9-11-2001.
> >
> > But 2,750/8,000,000 X 100,000 gives a murder rate of 34/100,000, still
> > lower than the examples I gave.
>
> statistically valid operation. Neither is the 0, 0, 1, 0, 2 murders in
> Thousand Oaks in recent years. When the numbers are very large or very
> small it requires longer time spans to even out sparse data. This is
> also why the very long times and very large number of events makes the
> density:crime correlate so very solid.
Manhattan doesn't have 8 million population, and if he wants to compile
an annual figure, then he needs to include all the other murders that
occurred throughout 2001.
Robert Cote
John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> george conklin wrote:
>
> > You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't like
> > are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density = higher crime
> > rates. Your propaganda a failure.
>
> Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year. In
> 2005 there were murders in the Berkshire County, Massachusetts towns of
> Stockbridge (pop. 2275), Becket (pop. 1755) and Washington (pop. 544).
> The murder rates in these towns are: Washington 184/100,000, Becket
> 57/100,000 and Stockbridge 44/100,000.
Washington, MA had a homicide? Was it actually a resident or, as I
suspect, a bar fight at "you know where?" [The name escapes me as I
never left with as many brain cells as with which I arrived.]
Robert Cote
"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
Careful Leroy, Bill Bennett just stepped in this one.
Martin Edwards
And brings in those pesky back to the land types with their pesky goats.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
Martin Edwards
Rockabye Sweet Baby James.
Robert Cote
Martin Edwards <big_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> John Mara wrote:
> > george conklin wrote:
> >
> >> You continue to be gerbil-irrelevant. When the variables you don't
> >> like are controlled, urbanization = higher crime rates. Density =
> >> higher crime rates. Your propaganda a failure.
> >
> >
> > Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year. In
> > 2005 there were murders in the Berkshire County, Massachusetts towns of
> > Stockbridge (pop. 2275), Becket (pop. 1755) and Washington (pop. 544).
> > The murder rates in these towns are: Washington 184/100,000, Becket
> > 57/100,000 and Stockbridge 44/100,000.
> >
> > Washington and Becket are totally rural. Stockbridge is a toursit trap
> > with a cute little Main Street made famous in a Norman Rockwell painting.
> >
> > Washington and Becket have no transit. Stockbridge has hourly local bus
> > service and a bus a few times a day to New York.
> >
> > John Mara
>
> Rockabye Sweet Baby James.
"Silly continental," Washington, Massachusetts is where Arlo Guthrie
lives. Rock/folk history is still history. For shame. ;-)
John Mara
> Washington, MA had a homicide? Was it actually a resident or, as I
> suspect, a bar fight at "you know where?" [The name escapes me as I
> never left with as many brain cells as with which I arrived.]
The victim was from Pittsfield. He disappeared about July 4. His truck
was found in the October Mountain State Forest. His body was found in
the October Mountain State Forest later.
The place you are talking about was "Woody's" at one time. I think it
burned down quite a while ago.
John Mara
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-BD3147.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Or maybe you need to be careful - the InterstateMAX corridor is among the
most ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area.
Robert Cote
John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Look, I was there I admit, but, but.... ;-)
Seriously, on the crime issue this is what I suspected, just like the
recent "explosion" of Thousand Oaks murders, a matter or jurisdiction
and not origin.
[Yes, it was Woody's but I didn't want to date myself.]
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-BD3147.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article <434a69f7$0$140$ad36...@news.netcarrier.net>,
> > "Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> > > news:11kj02g...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > There's lots of ambiguity - the crime stats for Portland may be
> "Portland,
> > > > City of" or they may be "Portland Metro Area". Portland Metro varies
> > > > depending on what all areas are included.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line is the fact that Cote was trying to compare two
> > > > areas -vastly- different in terms of population and type.
> > >
> > > Yup, Ventura has certainly got to be less lily white than Portland,
> > > America's purest holier-than-thou whitest city.
> >
> > Careful Leroy, Bill Bennett just stepped in this one.
>
> Or maybe you need to be careful - the InterstateMAX corridor is among the
> most ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area.
You mean a minority family has moved in since the 200 Census and doubled
the ethnic population? Read the sarcastic anti-claim; "Ventura has
certainly got to be less lily white than Portland." You are showing
yourself to be a pathetic racist and ignorant to even go near the issue
on your part.
Dik T. Winter
> In article <xEx2f.33931$Xl2....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
> John Mara <john...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>Small towns can have incredibly high murder rates in any given year.
> > >
> > > So can large cities. 2,750 in Manhattan on 9-11-2001.
> >
> > But 2,750/8,000,000 X 100,000 gives a murder rate of 34/100,000, still
> > lower than the examples I gave.
>
A pretty violent society. In the Netherlands, 16,000,000 inhabitants,
204 murders in the whole year 2004 (201 in 2003). That comes down to
(approximately) 1.3/100,000.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-32CEF1.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Projecting again, Robert?
At least a third of the motels along Interstate Ave are owned by Indians or
Pakistani's. Russell St station is in the heart of the historic Black Jazz
Club scene. Killingsworth station is another center of Black culture, with
Vietnamese, Chinese and Japanese close by.
Within a half-mile of me, I have a Japanese restaurant, a Chinese
restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican food-trailer,
a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in African food, an
Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned (and operated) by Chinese, a
Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian bakery, a black-owned vet, and many more.
Portland may be mostly white, but the InterstateMAX corridor is not.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-32CEF1.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article <11km5ll...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Or maybe you need to be careful - the InterstateMAX corridor is among
> > > the
> > > most ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area.
> >
> > You mean a minority family has moved in since the 200 Census and doubled
> > the ethnic population? Read the sarcastic anti-claim; "Ventura has
> > certainly got to be less lily white than Portland." You are showing
> > yourself to be a pathetic racist and ignorant to even go near the issue
> > on your part.
>
> At least a third of the motels along Interstate Ave are owned by Indians or
> Pakistani's.
Source? Nevermind, everyonew knows you are lying.
> Russell St station is in the heart of the historic Black Jazz
> Club scene. Killingsworth station is another center of Black culture, with
> Vietnamese, Chinese and Japanese close by.
>
> Within a half-mile of me, I have a Japanese restaurant, a Chinese
> restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican food-trailer,
> a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in African food, an
> Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned (and operated) by Chinese, a
> Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian bakery, a black-owned vet, and many more.
And? Anecdote does nothing to refute the documented, complete and
irrefutable Census data.
>
> Portland may be mostly white, but the InterstateMAX corridor is not.
Yeah, yeah, "mostly" white. Lily white is more like it. Good to see
you are still maintaining segregation in order to get so many minorities
in one corridor. Add segregationist to racist and ignorant.
George Conklin
"Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> wrote in message
news:Io7BB...@cwi.nl...
The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-BB1CE1.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> >
> > Within a half-mile of me, I have a Japanese restaurant, a Chinese
> > restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican
food-trailer,
> > a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in African food, an
> > Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned (and operated) by
Chinese, a
> > Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian bakery, a black-owned vet, and many
more.
>
> And? Anecdote does nothing to refute the documented, complete and
> irrefutable Census data.
There is no Census data that is so fine-grained as to detail the
racial/ethnic breakdown of just the InterstateMAX corridor (certainly YOU
have no access to any such breakdown.)
Dik T. Winter
> Dik T. Winter schrieb:
> > > > > So can large cities. 2,750 in Manhattan on 9-11-2001.
> > > Per DAY John, per DAY.
> >
> > A pretty violent society. In the Netherlands, 16,000,000 inhabitants,
> > 204 murders in the whole year 2004 (201 in 2003). That comes down to
> > (approximately) 1.3/100,000.
>
Yup, missed that.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-BB1CE1.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > >
> > > Within a half-mile of me, I have a Japanese restaurant, a Chinese
> > > restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican
> > > food-trailer, a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in
> > > African food, an Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned
> > > (and operated) by Chinese, a Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian
> > > bakery, a black-owned vet, and many more.
> >
> > And? Anecdote does nothing to refute the documented, complete and
> > irrefutable Census data.
>
> There is no Census data that is so fine-grained as to detail the
> racial/ethnic breakdown of just the InterstateMAX corridor (certainly YOU
> have no access to any such breakdown.)
What happened to; "The InterstateMAX corridor is among the most
ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area."?
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-4EE9F7.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
That's what I said. I have personal experience with the area. You have
nothing except your blind ideology.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican
> > > > > food-trailer, a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in
> > > > > African food, an Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned
> > > > > (and operated) by Chinese, a Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian
> > > > > bakery, a black-owned vet, and many more.
> > > >
> > > > And? Anecdote does nothing to refute the documented, complete and
> > > > irrefutable Census data.
> > >
> > > There is no Census data that is so fine-grained as to detail the
> > > racial/ethnic breakdown of just the InterstateMAX corridor (certainly
> > > YOU have no access to any such breakdown.)
> >
> > What happened to; "The InterstateMAX corridor is among the most
> > ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area."?
>
> That's what I said. I have personal experience with the area. You have
> nothing except your blind ideology.
Ohhhhh, we are supposed to believe you and not the census. What exactly
in the last decade have you done to earn this trust?
The Census allows through the American Fact Finder to map out at the 3
digit zip code level, the congressional level and metropolitan level
ethnicity and guess what Leroy. The Interstate corridor does not show
up as any different from the rest of the region. But that's okay,
Leader Leroy says it so so it must be so. So what is it about you that
anyone should trust you more than the census? Perhaps your ranking
Ventura County and Portland populations? Snigger.
Martin Edwards
>
> The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
> situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
> cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
>
>
by American standards?
Robert Cote
Martin Edwards <big_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> George Conklin wrote:
> >
> > The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
> > situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
> > cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
> >
> >
> Very true. Is it not also the case that New York is *not* very violent
> by American standards?
Yes and no. Less violent compared to other large metropoli but still
high crime compared to other cities. NYC adopted several good policies
including "broken windows" and "early" intervention but also benefitted
from unprecedented demographic shifts and massive law enforcement
expenditures. Each of which are on the FBI UCR list of crime rate
indicators.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-8CF35F.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11kq97f...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > > > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Within a half-mile of me, I have a Japanese restaurant, a
Chinese
> > > > > > restaurant, a Thai restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican
> > > > > > food-trailer, a Pad-Thai food trailer, a grocery specializing in
> > > > > > African food, an Ethiopian food store, a convenience store owned
> > > > > > (and operated) by Chinese, a Black-owned BBQ, a -small- Italian
> > > > > > bakery, a black-owned vet, and many more.
> > > > >
> > > > > And? Anecdote does nothing to refute the documented, complete and
> > > > > irrefutable Census data.
> > > >
> > > > There is no Census data that is so fine-grained as to detail the
> > > > racial/ethnic breakdown of just the InterstateMAX corridor
(certainly
> > > > YOU have no access to any such breakdown.)
> > >
> > > What happened to; "The InterstateMAX corridor is among the most
> > > ethnically (and racially) diverse in the Portland metro area."?
> >
> > That's what I said. I have personal experience with the area. You have
> > nothing except your blind ideology.
>
> Ohhhhh, we are supposed to believe you and not the census.
You don't have any Census numbers.
>What exactly
> in the last decade have you done to earn this trust?
>
> The Census allows through the American Fact Finder to map out at the 3
> digit zip code level, the congressional level and metropolitan level
> ethnicity and guess what Leroy. The Interstate corridor does not show
> up as any different from the rest of the region.
The InterstateMAX corridor does not map to any zip code.
> But that's okay,
> Leader Leroy says it so so it must be so. So what is it about you that
> anyone should trust you more than the census? Perhaps your ranking
> Ventura County and Portland populations? Snigger.
Interesting that you didn't specify the zip code or the statistics you're
supposedly referring to. Could that be because you don't have any and are
just blustering?
You don't want to believe me? Fine:
------------
In May 2004, TriMet opened the 5.5-mile Interstate MAX light rail alignment.
Interstate MAX was built along a struggling but busy commercial street that
runs through one of the most racially diverse and lowest income
neighbourhoods in Portland.
http://www.iap2.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=56&printpage=true
TriMet will celebrate the opening with festivities at its train stations,
celebrating the diverse North Portland neighborhoods along the line.
http://www.apta.com/passenger_transport/thisweek/040426_5.cfm
“It’s going to be an interesting and fun street for Portland, racially
diverse and full of artists and musicians,” said Philip Stanton, owner of
the Mississippi Pizza Pub, 3552 N. Mississippi Ave.
The new Interstate MAX line is three blocks away, and neighbors hope that
the low rents will attract more young artists who will help continue the
revival.
http://www.thetribonline.net/archview.cgi?id=16457
Has the effort been a success? The city hasn’t succeeded entirely in making
sure that gentrification doesn’t drive out existing residents. Yes, crime
and drugs are down while optimism is up. But the area still deals with
undercurrents of racial and class mistrust in one of Oregon’s poorest and
most diverse neighborhoods. Changes are happening quickly. People walk to
the shops by day; at night, live music can be found at the Mississippi Pizza
Pub where crowds and the music spill out onto the sidewalk on warm evenings.
The new Interstate MAX line is three blocks away, and neighbors hope that
the low rents will attract more young artists who will help continue the
revival.
http://www.movingtoportland.net/living_north.htm
George Conklin
"Martin Edwards" <big_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dijf3k$qmg$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> George Conklin wrote:
> >
> > The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
> > situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
> > cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
> >
> >
> Very true. Is it not also the case that New York is *not* very violent
> by American standards?
>
you get to Canada, you begin to find rates which almost resemble Europe, but
not quite. But, overall, size and density raise homicide rates.
Internationally we found that density raises rates with many levels of
controls introduced.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-8CF35F.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Let's see - Ockley Green Middle School is -right-on- the InterstateMAX line.
The diversity of the student body should closely reflect the diversity of
the neighborhood.
----------
enrollment for 2004-2005
-----
American Indian - 2.6%
European American - 23.1%
African American - 41.8%
Asian American - 10.1%
Hispanic American - 22.3%
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts/mis/enroll/current/ockley_green.pdf
--------
Here's your chance, Cote - prove me and the school wrong. Prove that 23.1%
is the same as "Lily white". Prove that enrollment at Ockley Green is
radically different than the surrounding neighborhood.
'Course, it's much more fun to watch you make a fool of yourself - do
continue your bluster and bullshit.
Robert Cote
Should it? Why should this essential premise be accepted as FAct?
>
> http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts/mis/enroll/current/ockley_green.pdf
> Here's your chance, Cote - prove me and the school wrong. Prove that 23.1%
> is the same as "Lily white". Prove that enrollment at Ockley Green is
> radically different than the surrounding neighborhood.
I couldn't even -demonstrate- that a particular school is reflective of
any location even accepting (no) your claims of proximity (no) and
similarity (no). Just because you don't understand statistics or
believe the maps so easily generated on American Fact Finder doesn't
mean I have to jump into your fantasy concoctions and drag you out.
>
> 'Course, it's much more fun to watch you make a fool of yourself - do
> continue your bluster and bullshit.
Mirror Leroy, mirror. Your unethical snipping to remove your ignorant,
segregationist, racist comments don't magically turn the tables on those
who expose you for what you are.
Now, with that out of the way we can talk about why Ockley Green is
seeing such dramatic demographic shifts especially in light of the
extreme contraction of Portland school enrollment. Radical and
unsustainable planning practices are driving those with choice out of
the system. Not that you can accept that or even remain civil in your
reply but the audience knows the difference.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
Wrong. What you meant to say was that the IMAX corridor doesn't map to
a 5 digit zip code. It does map to a single 3 digit zip code however.
>
> > But that's okay,
> > Leader Leroy says it so so it must be so. So what is it about you that
> > anyone should trust you more than the census? Perhaps your ranking
> > Ventura County and Portland populations? Snigger.
>
> Interesting that you didn't specify the zip code or the statistics you're
> supposedly referring to.
No one asked. More precisely no one of consequence asked. Everyone who
matters knows I don't make these comments out of whole cloth.
> Could that be because you don't have any and are
> just blustering?
No, it just means your doubts are of no consequence.
>
> You don't want to believe me?
I'd like nothing better than to be able to believe you. That would save
volumes as once you became believable you'd stop spouting nonsense and
insult.
Amazing how -hard- they -push- the diversity angle? Any speculation?
Sancho Panza
That is quite a chart. Amid losing overall almost half its students since
1995, it should be noted that "European Americans" declined from 348, or
47.5%, to 89, or 23.1%. That decline of 250 far outstrips the others. Even
"African Americans" declined, from 213 to 161. And, anyway, how do they
decide who goes in what category?
No wonder why the Portlanders are so leery about providing source material.
It almost always reports a different picture from the one that they are
trying to put forward.
Robert Cote
"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
Sancho, kudos for your excellent analysis. I only interrupt to make
additional points not disagree.
> That is quite a chart. Amid losing overall almost half its students since
> 1995, it should be noted that "European Americans"
Notice that did you? Wow, what a category. Certainly nothing any
reliable demographer would accept.
> declined from 348, or
> 47.5%, to 89, or 23.1%. That decline of 250 far outstrips the others. Even
> "African Americans" declined, from 213 to 161.
How about that? A cratering of enrollment in such a small school must
by definition disproportionately impact specific groups for mathematical
reasons and not statistically valid reasons. 733 to 385 in 10 years!
This is nothing more than another nail in the coffin of NURB.
> And, anyway, how do they
> decide who goes in what category?
Don't go there. Portland is proud of their ethnic diversity and any
implication of fudging to make the diversity numbers pencil out will
only make you appear to be less than tolerant.
>
> No wonder why the Portlanders are so leery about providing source material.
It isn't just demographics, they are ashamed of nearly every enumerable
social criterion available. In FAct I'd be interested in which numbers
Portlanders are proud of over the last 10 or 20 years. Not that any
will volunteer the data.
> It almost always reports a different picture from the one that they are
> trying to put forward.
Yes, classic NURBist revisionism.
Baxter
--
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-FA040E.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11kqs90...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> >
> > Let's see - Ockley Green Middle School is -right-on- the InterstateMAX
line.
> > The diversity of the student body should closely reflect the diversity
of
> > the neighborhood.
>
> Should it? Why should this essential premise be accepted as FAct?
>
> >
> > http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts/mis/enroll/current/ockley_green.pdf
>
> > Here's your chance, Cote - prove me and the school wrong. Prove that
23.1%
> > is the same as "Lily white". Prove that enrollment at Ockley Green is
> > radically different than the surrounding neighborhood.
>
> I couldn't even -demonstrate- that a particular school is reflective of
> any location even accepting (no) your claims of proximity (no) and
> similarity (no). Just because you don't understand statistics or
> believe the maps so easily generated on American Fact Finder doesn't
> mean I have to jump into your fantasy concoctions and drag you out.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
It's a good thing this is amUsenet - else you'd owe a ton for all the
keyboards killed by your bullshit.
Robert Cote
> > >
> > > Let's see - Ockley Green Middle School is -right-on- the
> > > InterstateMAX line. The diversity of the student body should
> > > closely reflect the diversity of the neighborhood.
> >
> > Should it? Why should this essential premise be accepted as FAct?
> >
> > >
> > > http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts/mis/enroll/current/ockley_green.pdf
> >
> > > Here's your chance, Cote - prove me and the school wrong. Prove
> > > that 23.1% is the same as "Lily white". Prove that enrollment at
> > > Ockley Green is radically different than the surrounding
> > > neighborhood.
> >
> > I couldn't even -demonstrate- that a particular school is reflective of
> > any location even accepting (no) your claims of proximity (no) and
> > similarity (no). Just because you don't understand statistics or
> > believe the maps so easily generated on American Fact Finder doesn't
> > mean I have to jump into your fantasy concoctions and drag you out.
>
> BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
> It's a good thing this is amUsenet - else you'd owe a ton for all the
> keyboards killed by your bullshit.
No one cares how easily amused you may be. You can't just throw out any
old claim and pretend it is FAct unless someone proves it wrong to your
satisfaction. You've lost the bubble and are in a spin. Move on.
Oh wait. We already moved on and left you behind. Now that the above
has been dealt with the reasons behind the demographics are some three
posts beyond your original errors repeated above. Try to keep up with
the class Baxter.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-64EEBD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11kqphl...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> >
> > The InterstateMAX corridor does not map to any zip code.
>
> Wrong. What you meant to say was that the IMAX corridor doesn't map to
> a 5 digit zip code. It does map to a single 3 digit zip code however.
Again - nope. InterstateMAX does not map to a 3-digit zip. A good portion,
if not most, of the YL lies in 97217. Zip 97217, however, encompases a lot
of area that is not that close to InterstateMAX. If your Census data for
97217 doesn't show a heavy African-American presence, then your data is
entirely wrong.
> >
> > Interesting that you didn't specify the zip code or the statistics
you're
> > supposedly referring to.
>
> No one asked. More precisely no one of consequence asked. Everyone who
> matters knows I don't make these comments out of whole cloth.
Oh, but you do. In fact, you probably couldn't show where InterstateMAX was
if a map was placed in front of you. You know nothing about Portland - your
ideology has entrenched your ignorance.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-64EEBD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article <11kqphl...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The InterstateMAX corridor does not map to any zip code.
> >
> > Wrong. What you meant to say was that the IMAX corridor doesn't map to
> > a 5 digit zip code. It does map to a single 3 digit zip code however.
>
> Again - nope.
Wahhh. Is not! Is too! I'm gonna tell mom! Pathetic child.
Dik T. Winter
> George Conklin wrote:
> > The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
> > situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
> > cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
> >
> Very true. Is it not also the case that New York is *not* very violent
> by American standards?
From <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1424319,00.html?:
New York零 murder rate per person: 6.9 per 100,000, making it
the safest large city in America
London零 murder rate per person: 2.4 per 100,000
Robert Cote
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-64EEBD.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > Everyone who
> > matters knows I don't make these comments out of whole cloth.
>
> Oh, but you do. In fact, you probably couldn't show where
> InterstateMAX was if a map was placed in front of you. You know
> nothing about Portland - your ideology has entrenched your ignorance.
That's what I just said. Everyone who matters knows I don't make these
comments out of whole cloth. Thank you for distinguishing yourself from
those who matter.
Baxter
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"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dik1u...@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> That is quite a chart. Amid losing overall almost half its students since
> 1995, it should be noted that "European Americans" declined from 348, or
> 47.5%, to 89, or 23.1%. That decline of 250 far outstrips the others. Even
> "African Americans" declined, from 213 to 161. And, anyway, how do they
> decide who goes in what category?
>
Likely quite temporary. Beach Elementary, which feeds Ockley Green, shows
substantial increases in enrollment.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/news-c/school_reorg_0405/Beach.pdf
Beach School is also near InterstateMAX, and shows more than 70% minority.
Might be interesting to find out the minority percentage of schools in
Cote's neighborhood. Likely then we'd find the "lily white" he's talking
about.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-71BCE5.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Translation: Cote & friends walked off the cliff.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-922436.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Translation: Cote got caught without any data to support his claim - which
he now realizes was stupid.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-768464.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
Actually, the only ones that matter to Cote are the ones who agree with
him - and even they know he makes claims without any real numbers to back
him up.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dik1u...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> >
> > That is quite a chart. Amid losing overall almost half its students since
> > 1995, it should be noted that "European Americans" declined from 348, or
> > 47.5%, to 89, or 23.1%. That decline of 250 far outstrips the others. Even
> > "African Americans" declined, from 213 to 161. And, anyway, how do they
> > decide who goes in what category?
> >
> Likely quite temporary.
You sick pathetic excuse. Grow up, FAce the FActs. You are in total
denial of the obvious impacts of the Portland Experiment.
...
> Might be interesting to find out the minority percentage of schools in
> Cote's neighborhood. Likely then we'd find the "lily white" he's talking
> about.
Nope but you don't believe that just because I say it. Then agan you
won't believe it even if I prove it so why bother? Seriously, why
should anyone produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record
of denial? What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar. FAct is you
cannot set the bar because you are already under it yourself. Pathetic,
no not you, you are too far gone. Pathetic that everyone reading either
newsgroup lacks the courage from the other side to say enough already.
George Conklin
FEWER children to educate near or in one of their target areas. Planners
are violent anti-child anyway, and define 'vibrant' as nightclubs and all
night cruising. People who retire at night with their families are
ridiculed as being boring.
Baxter
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"George Conklin" <georgec...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lEi3f.386$hY6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> >
> I am not sure that any planners would object to any plan which resulted
in
> FEWER children to educate near or in one of their target areas. Planners
> are violent anti-child anyway, and define 'vibrant' as nightclubs and all
> night cruising. People who retire at night with their families are
> ridiculed as being boring.
>
No such "planners" exist. It's just your fetid paranoia.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-133B25.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11krbaa...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
> > "Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:dik1u...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> > >
> > > That is quite a chart. Amid losing overall almost half its students
since
> > > 1995, it should be noted that "European Americans" declined from 348,
or
> > > 47.5%, to 89, or 23.1%. That decline of 250 far outstrips the others.
Even
> > > "African Americans" declined, from 213 to 161. And, anyway, how do
they
> > > decide who goes in what category?
> > >
> > Likely quite temporary.
>
> You sick pathetic excuse. Grow up, FAce the FActs. You are in total
> denial of the obvious impacts of the Portland Experiment.
I thought the discussion was about whether the InterstateMAX corridor was
diverse. 'Course having your nose shoved into that cowpie I can see why you
want to change the subject.
>
> ...
> > Might be interesting to find out the minority percentage of schools in
> > Cote's neighborhood. Likely then we'd find the "lily white" he's
talking
> > about.
>
> Nope but you don't believe that just because I say it. Then agan you
> won't believe it even if I prove it so why bother? Seriously, why
> should anyone produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record
> of denial? What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar. FAct is you
> cannot set the bar because you are already under it yourself. Pathetic,
> no not you, you are too far gone. Pathetic that everyone reading either
> newsgroup lacks the courage from the other side to say enough already.
Translation: It's Cote's neighborhood that's "lily white". Else he could
easily provide a URL that showed otherwise.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-133B25.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > Nope but you don't believe that just because I say it. Then agan you
> > won't believe it even if I prove it so why bother? Seriously, why
> > should anyone produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record
> > of denial? What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar. FAct is you
> > cannot set the bar because you are already under it yourself. Pathetic,
> > no not you, you are too far gone. Pathetic that everyone reading either
> > newsgroup lacks the courage from the other side to say enough already.
>
> Translation: It's Cote's neighborhood that's "lily white". Else he could
> easily provide a URL that showed otherwise.
Nope, I'm stringing you along just like all the other times to make your
inevitable humiliation all the sweeter. Seriously, why should anyone
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-68C045.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11krf0a...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
> > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > news:tsch-133B25.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
>
> > > Nope but you don't believe that just because I say it. Then agan you
> > > won't believe it even if I prove it so why bother? Seriously, why
> > > should anyone produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken
record
> > > of denial? What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar. FAct is
you
> > > cannot set the bar because you are already under it yourself.
Pathetic,
> > > no not you, you are too far gone. Pathetic that everyone reading
either
> > > newsgroup lacks the courage from the other side to say enough already.
> >
> > Translation: It's Cote's neighborhood that's "lily white". Else he
could
> > easily provide a URL that showed otherwise.
>
> Nope, I'm stringing you along just like all the other times to make your
> inevitable humiliation all the sweeter.
According to Wikipedia, Multnomah County is ~79% white -- and Ventura
County is ~70% white. For a rock-caster, you're living in a glass house.
Still, regardless of the overall Multnomah County stats, the InterstateMAX
corridor is much different -- and appears to be in the 25-35% white range.
Then, of course, Cote starts talking about ghettos - as if he knew anything
about mixed neighborhoods.
>Seriously, why should anyone
> produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record of denial?
> What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar.
Are you denying your denials? It would appear so. And then you wonder why
we're laughing at you.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote:
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > won't believe it even if I prove it so why bother? Seriously, why
> > > > should anyone produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record
> > > > of denial? What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar. FAct is you
> > > > cannot set the bar because you are already under it yourself. Pathetic,
> > > > no not you, you are too far gone. Pathetic that everyone reading either
> > > > newsgroup lacks the courage from the other side to say enough already.
> > >
> > > Translation: It's Cote's neighborhood that's "lily white". Else he could
> > > easily provide a URL that showed otherwise.
> >
> > Nope, I'm stringing you along just like all the other times to make your
> > inevitable humiliation all the sweeter.
>
> According to Wikipedia, Multnomah County is ~79% white -- and Ventura
> County is ~70% white. For a rock-caster, you're living in a glass house.
Wikipedia is an "open encyclopedia", meaning that anyone can post
material there, even emUsenet trolls can post there.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> news:tsch-68C045.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > In article <11krf0a...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
> According to Wikipedia, Multnomah County is ~79% white -- and Ventura
> County is ~70% white. For a rock-caster, you're living in a glass house.
Just shows that you cannot always trust Wikipedia. Less than 40%.
Interesting that you've finally gone back to county v county after all
your recent errors about county v city. You know, all the claims you
keep snipping from replies rather than admit error.
>
> Still, regardless of the overall Multnomah County stats, the InterstateMAX
> corridor is much different -- and appears to be in the 25-35% white range.
I thought you said no data was available. Now you spout numbers as if
they were available. If the 25-35% were true it means that IMAX is a
ghetto and the rest of the city has no minority component at all having
all be relocated to your hypothetical corridor.
>
> Then, of course, Cote starts talking about ghettos - as if he knew anything
> about mixed neighborhoods.
Look up the definition. It is clearly not what you think.
>
> > Seriously, why should anyone
> > produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record of denial?
> > What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar.
>
> Are you denying your denials? It would appear so. And then you wonder why
> we're laughing at you.
"We?" Who is this we? You've shown yourself in this exchange to be a
lying, segregationist, racist with no consideration for the FActs. Who
is this we that is siding with that type of behavior?
Robert Cote
And apparently even lower forms can cite it as a source as long as the
inaccurate information suits their agenda.
Robert Cote
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > > > Everyone who
> > > > matters knows I don't make these comments out of whole cloth.
> > >
> > > Oh, but you do. In fact, you probably couldn't show where
> > > InterstateMAX was if a map was placed in front of you. You know
> > > nothing about Portland - your ideology has entrenched your ignorance.
> >
> > That's what I just said. Everyone who matters knows I don't make these
> > comments out of whole cloth. Thank you for distinguishing yourself from
> > those who matter.
>
> Actually, the only ones that matter to Cote are the ones who agree with
> him - and even they know he makes claims without any real numbers to back
> him up.
So? Not only can you read my mind you can read everyone elses? Why
then do you ever need references to my information? Move on Baxter,
you've lost this one again. You just cannot abide anyone pointing out
any failing whatsoever about the Great Portland Experiment. It's become
and axiom of the internet. The only result is you join Portland as a
laughing stock. Make no mistake, this is about denial. Portland
retains lots of extremely desireable characteristics. It is their
pathological refusal to see the less desireable attributes that earns it
nationwide skepticism. Everyone except Portland sees the schools
problems as a consequence of public policy for but one example.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-E82D1B.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <11krlfp...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> > "Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
> > news:tsch-68C045.1...@news.isp.giganews.com...
> > > In article <11krf0a...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > > "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > According to Wikipedia, Multnomah County is ~79% white -- and Ventura
> > County is ~70% white. For a rock-caster, you're living in a glass
house.
>
> Just shows that you cannot always trust Wikipedia. Less than 40%.
> Interesting that you've finally gone back to county v county after all
> your recent errors about county v city. You know, all the claims you
> keep snipping from replies rather than admit error.
Census site agrees with Wikipedia - their numbers are almost identical.
The diversity at the county level is not relavant to your claims concerning
the YL corridor - but only serve to point up the insanity of your
bloviating.
>
> >
> > Still, regardless of the overall Multnomah County stats, the
InterstateMAX
> > corridor is much different -- and appears to be in the 25-35% white
range.
>
> I thought you said no data was available. Now you spout numbers as if
> they were available. If the 25-35% were true it means that IMAX is a
> ghetto and the rest of the city has no minority component at all having
> all be relocated to your hypothetical corridor.
Strange sort of "ghetto" where the minority is less than 50%.
>
> >
> > Then, of course, Cote starts talking about ghettos - as if he knew
anything
> > about mixed neighborhoods.
>
> Look up the definition. It is clearly not what you think.
You don't know anything about being forced to live in a particular section
either.
>
> >
> > > Seriously, why should anyone
> > > produce any data whatsoever if you have an unbroken record of denial?
> > > What does it take? Come on Leroy, set the bar.
> >
> > Are you denying your denials? It would appear so. And then you wonder
why
> > we're laughing at you.
>
> "We?" Who is this we? You've shown yourself in this exchange to be a
> lying, segregationist, racist with no consideration for the FActs. Who
> is this we that is siding with that type of behavior?
Actually, Cote, it's you that is the lying, segregationist, racist with no
consideration for the -facts-, and I'm the one who lives by choice in a
racially and ethnically mixed neighborhood.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-9C6D20.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
The Census numbers are pretty much identical to Wikipedia's.
Baxter
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"Robert Cote" <ts...@adlph.net> wrote in message
news:tsch-5BA49F.0...@news.isp.giganews.com...
I can see why you want to move on after sticking you foot in it and then
getting it all over your face.
Let me know when you're willing to admit you were spewing bullshit when you
disputed the diversity of the InterstateMAX corridor.
Martin Edwards
all night cruising, it would be surpsising if any planning got done at all.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
Martin Edwards
That's a mixed metaphor, Leroy. Shape up, willya?
Martin Edwards
> "Martin Edwards" <big_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:dijf3k$qmg$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>>George Conklin wrote:
>>
>>> The United States most closely resembles the Americas, where it is
>>>situated, and NOT Europe. In terms of homicide, the USA is really a
>>>cultural branch of Mexico and lands much further south.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Very true. Is it not also the case that New York is *not* very violent
>>by American standards?
>>
>
> you get to Canada, you begin to find rates which almost resemble Europe, but
> not quite. But, overall, size and density raise homicide rates.
> Internationally we found that density raises rates with many levels of
> controls introduced.
>
>
If Windsor is markedly lower than Detroit, that raises a few issues, I
would have thought.
George Conklin
We were comparing nations, not individual cities. Unfortunately the
planner model is to look not for overall trends and patterns, but to look at
any city anywhere which is below the regression line and then say, "In my
city we will be like X." It is just like Garrison Keillor: in his town,
all the children are above average. That is the urban planner rant: "In my
city, everything will be above average because I say so."
Bob Tiernan
It's been almost a week since this was announced
by the Portland City Council, and it's revealing
that the pro-LRT policy people and New Urbanist
supporters have been silent. That's because
the news is a great embarrassment and a great
tail-tucking.
The elistist New Urbanist establishment in
the greater Portland area (made up of
lefty politicians and developer and
engineering buddies and assorted Fat Cats)
has been bragging that their "Cascade Station"
area on 120 acres of Airport land (leased
to Bechtel for 90+ years in a sweetheart
LRT-building deal the establishment didn't
allow us to vote on) will never have
big box stores nor loads of parking spaces.
Now they're caved and are welcoming a very
large Ikea store with about 1,200 parking
spaces (oh wait, there's gonna be about 75
bicycle spaces! - oh yeah, people are gonna
ride their bike to buy and carry away a sofa!).
This was reality smacking them in the face.
From a recent Oregonian article:
"The announcement unveiled a retail coup for Portland, potentially
signaling to other retailers nationwide that Portland can support more
destination stores. The project also undoubtedly will accelerate retail
activity at the Cascade Station site, where light rail was extended in
2001 and where parks were built in anticipation of development that never
materialized."
** Never materialized becaused the city zoners
didn't want the kind of store they are now
letting in. Note that more big stores will
now be welcome, so long as one is not a Wal-Mart.
"City leaders and developers now hope the two-story, 280,000-square-foot
Ikea store will trigger development of an additional 500,000 square feet
of retail space and eventually 1 million square feet of offices at Cascade
Station."
** If they allow parking spaces they will see
realistic development. No LRT line will
ever carry enough shoppers and employees
to these places. And since 90& of commuters
drive anyway, this development will
drastically increase congestion in the
are here where Airport Way and I-205
intersect. So much for LRT being
congestion reducers!
"The news also could prompt evolution in debate about big-box retailers
and raise questions about the city's courting of some large-format
retailers such as Ikea, while residents protest others such as Wal-Mart."
** It's taken them five years to realize what others
knew in the beginning. Why are these people considered
worthy of office?
"Ikea's location will bring shoppers and energy to the Cascade Station
site, which in turn will attract other retailers, said Craig Sweitzer, a
retail broker and owner of Portland's Urban Works Real Estate."
** What they hoped for were small stores so we'd have
this fantasy land look of the way these planners
want you live. Note that the now four-year old
presence of LRT has not "triggered" this development
as the usual bragging goes. That's why the
city has been subsidizing development that they
feel needs to be here, often leading to
absurdities such as wealthy yuppies paying only
$500 per month for really expensive units.
"The lack of development at Cascade Station has been controversial
since it was zoned in 1999."
** Build LRT and they will come, said the planner
geeks. Note that this is a long range plan
for Bechtel which knws it will have the acreage
nearly a century from now. They may not have
moved fast, but for people who won't be
around when the lease is up (almost all of
us) the five years of waiting was a long time.
"The project began as an innovative public-private partnership intended to
extend the MAX light-rail system to the airport. In exchange for a
long-term lease and the right to develop the 120 acres fronting Airport
Way, Bechtel Corp. agreed to build the line."
** It was more like Bechtel made the demands. They used
taxpayer dollars, anyway, to build the line.
"City officials and Bechtel envisioned a dense urban commercial
development that would live up to the tens of millions of dollars
invested in light rail and advance the region's goals for density
and urban infill."
** Such a plan has needed massive corporate welfare,
something the New Urbanist Left hates to acknowledge.
"Earlier this year, developers and the City Council went for a new
strategy, which would allow as many as three big-box stores far
larger than the previous floor-size restriction."
** Well, at least they recognized reality when it
smacked them in the face.
-----------------------------------
Here are some comments on this by transit and
transportation expert Michale Cunneen:
IKEA announced this morning at a press conference with Mayor Potter and
former Mayor Katz that they will be opening a 280,000-square-foot store
at CascadeStation at the airport in Spring 2007.
Fun IKEA trivia: The name IKEA is supposedly an acronym for Ingvar Kamprad
(founder), Elmtaryd (the farm Ingvar grew up on), and Agunnaryd (the
parish in southern Sweden where the farm is located). Actually, it's
modern Lap slang for "government handout for big business".
Refer to the summary I did of the City Council meeting commemnts in voting
for "Cascade Station", this "Transit-Oriented Development". Commissioner
Sten said that at first he was reluctant to vote for another auto-oriented
suburban shopping and office complex that has a light rail line running
through it but, when it was explained to him that, instead, it would be a
light rail line with another auto-oriented suburban shopping and office
complex around it, he he realized it was a great idea.
M. Cunneen
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bob T
george conklin
"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.63.05...@shell1.pacifier.net...
What the New Urbanists do not realize is that while people might take
transit to work, they always are going to use their cars for shopping. This
is true even in London and UK as a whole. The idea that people will pay
high prices and have to have their purchases delivered by mail order is
absurd. You simply cannot carry very much on transit, a fact my mother knew
well when we went shopping in NYC. Someone had to be home the following
week to get the delivery accepted.
Baxter
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"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.63.05...@shell1.pacifier.net...
>
> It's been almost a week since this was announced
> by the Portland City Council, and it's revealing
> that the pro-LRT policy people and New Urbanist
> supporters have been silent. That's because
> the news is a great embarrassment and a great
> tail-tucking.
Or that the news has nothing to do with New Urbanism.
>
> Now they're caved and are welcoming a very
> large Ikea store with about 1,200 parking
> spaces (oh wait, there's gonna be about 75
> bicycle spaces! - oh yeah, people are gonna
> ride their bike to buy and carry away a sofa!).
Interestingly enough, I was noticing on my last several trips to the Home
Depot store on Hayden Island that there was always a bicycle parked in
front. Wonder how BT would explain that?
>
>
> "The lack of development at Cascade Station has been controversial
> since it was zoned in 1999."
With BT claiming again and again about the "sweetheart deal" that Bechtel
got.
Baxter
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"george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
news:4ep7f.19762$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
> What the New Urbanists do not realize is that while people might take
> transit to work, they always are going to use their cars for shopping.
And no New Urbanist has said otherwise. George invents people and puts words
in their mouths.
James Robinson
>
> What the New Urbanists do not realize is that while people might take
> transit to work, they always are going to use their cars for shopping.
> This is true even in London and UK as a whole.
Not always. In cities with higher transit use, there are bakeries, grocery
stores and hardware stores located in or very near transit stations, and
many people pick up their daily needs on their way home from work. They
get larger items delivered.
george conklin
"Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:11lsjja...@corp.supernews.com...
You deleted the part of the original post where it stated otherwise.
"The lack of development at Cascade Station has been controversial
since it was zoned in 1999."
And why the lack?
"City officials and Bechtel envisioned a dense urban commercial
development that would live up to the tens of millions of dollars
invested in light rail and advance the region's goals for density
and urban infill."
You cut that out Baxter. Of course you did. It shows what I posted is
correct.
Then:
"Earlier this year, developers and the City Council went for a new
strategy, which would allow as many as three big-box stores far
larger than the previous floor-size restriction."
You cannot limit floor size and expect people to shop in the little stores
and then take transit.
And then this which you deleted:
Commissioner
Sten said that at first he was reluctant to vote for another auto-oriented
suburban shopping and office complex that has a light rail line running
through it but, when it was explained to him that, instead, it would be a
light rail line with another auto-oriented suburban shopping and office
complex around it, he he realized it was a great idea.
You see, Baxter, the planners came up with more unworkable ideas.
You just delete anything you don't want to hear. You have a real problem
with honesty.
george conklin
"James Robinson" <was...@212.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96FA7851D532Cwa...@216.196.97.142...
You are assuming people shop daily. This is not a USA pattern at all.
But even in UK, they take the cars shopping even if they use transit for
work. And how many people in modern cities can have the wife stay home to
take deliveries? I never had that option. I am glad you do. To make
transit work today, we need the employment patterns of 1920, not 2020.
Sancho Panza
That's not what all those Portland proponents said here a few months ago
with references to all sorts of little boutique shopping centers near
transit stops. Maybe the caving in to Ikea is changing attitudes there.
Bob Tiernan
> That's not what all those Portland proponents said here a
> few months ago with references to all sorts of little
> boutique shopping centers near transit stops. Maybe the
> caving in to Ikea is changing attitudes there.
They didn't cave in to Ikea -- they caved in to more
realistic "visions", particularly that which can be
obtained without subsidies. I'm sure that the
Portland area Mew Urbanist elitists (politicians,
politically-connected developers, etc) could
have gotten more boutique shopping areas had they
been willing to subsidize their placement, but I
think too many voters are watching out for these
corporate welfare give-aways.
Bob T
Baxter
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"george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
news:Y5t7f.1149$AS6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:11lsjja...@corp.supernews.com...
> > --
> > "george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
> > news:4ep7f.19762$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> What the New Urbanists do not realize is that while people might
take
> >> transit to work, they always are going to use their cars for shopping.
> >
> > And no New Urbanist has said otherwise. George invents people and puts
> > words
> > in their mouths.
> >
> >
>
> You deleted the part of the original post where it stated otherwise.
>
> "The lack of development at Cascade Station has been controversial
> since it was zoned in 1999."
Your "controversy" is like the "controversy" surrounding Evolution -
entirely manufactured by the anti-rail/anti-urban types. Cascade Station is
Port of Portland property - and pretty much up to them how they want to
develop it.
Baxter
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"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:435e5ec9$0$148$ad36...@news.netcarrier.net...
>
> "Baxter" <lbax02.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:11lsjja...@corp.supernews.com...
> > --
> >
> > "george conklin" <geo...@nxu.edu> wrote in message
> > news:4ep7f.19762$QE1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > What the New Urbanists do not realize is that while people might
take
> > > transit to work, they always are going to use their cars for shopping.
> >
> > And no New Urbanist has said otherwise. George invents people and puts
> words
> > in their mouths.
>
> That's not what all those Portland proponents said here a few months ago
> with references to all sorts of little boutique shopping centers near
> transit stops. Maybe the caving in to Ikea is changing attitudes there.
>
Now Sancho invents strawmen and puts words into their mouths.
Again: Cascade Station is Port of Portland property - they get to do with
it pretty much as they wish.