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Re: Guth Venus / Brad Guth and the geothermal planet (5 Gold Star Rating *****)
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Brad Guth
Oct 25, 2011, 9:37:23 PM10/25/11
to
On Oct 25, 4:37 pm, William Mook <mokmedi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> The homes are sold and done. 500 Watts works just fine for these
> homes. That's the whole point! haha...
>
> Beyond being under-ground which insulates from both cold and heat and
> maintains a comfortable 72F year-round with very little energy. Go
> back and look at the table I provided. You can see that in a typical
> home 60% of the energy it used to heat and cool the home. Here, that
> energy isn't needed because the house is underground. Beyond that,
> these homes contain;
>
> Staber washing machines www.staber.com
> Sunfrost refrigerators www.sunfrost.com
> Clivus Multrum composting toilets
> Compact fluorescent light bulbs
> Long-lasting energy efficent windows
>
> You asked for an example of any hydrogen I've made. This is one
> example. These homes were designed to be superior in every way but
> use only 40% of the energy typical for these homes. They could
> certainly use more if they wished, since the solar and wind systems
> are fully capable of supporting it.
>
> What do we do with extra hydrogen? The extra hydrogen runs the Rocky
> Mountain Institute's hypercars which are loaned to the group.
Does "Rocky Mountain Institute" actually know about any of this
Mokenergy stuff or anything about William Mook representing himself as
their official agent and expertise wizard?
So how much Mokenergy hydrogen is currently supplied to these highly
energy efficient but otherwise inactive homes of that mostly earthen
configuration?
BTW; because I don't much like having to live with only spot lighting
via LEDs and otherwise I'd need some continuous ventilation plus the
use of a few other appliances, so perhaps if the highly insulated home
were not more than 1000 sf and I lived alone so that I didn't have to
shower or do laundry more than once a month, as well as having no
outside yard or gardens to take care of, I'd likely still require
almost 500 watts just to do that little and run a good PC with it's
24" color LCD screen.
Not one soul that works for DoE has anything but purely subjective
knowledge (sort of like yourself) about how much all-inclusive energy
an active family home actually requires. Obviously we can all manage
to hunker down or do without and suck-it-up if that's the only option.
BTW again; apparently you don't even know how much energy it takes for
making a kg of ice per day. Ever heard of laundry or cooking/baking/
canning/freezing/refrigeration/dish-washing or how about making at
least two pots of coffee per day, and please don't forget about
recharging my all-electric car that needs to provide a 150 mile range
at least once a week, all because of my having to live out in those
earthen worthy hills that are a good 50 miles from the nearest city.
Perhaps in a highly sophisticated highrise condo with only the best
geothermal heat-exchanging that's all self-sufficient from deep wells,
solar, wind and your cheap hydrogen is where the all-inclusive energy
per active person might average 500 watts, or half that if the person
is essentially inactive and thus unproductive.
Meanwhile, how many hundred thousand (including its property and
everything necessary) are these little earthen homes of 500 sf or less
selling for?
Are we talking $1000/sf including all appliances, its property, well
and septic?
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
> Brad,
>
> The homes are sold and done. 500 Watts works just fine for these
> homes. That's the whole point! haha...
>
> Beyond being under-ground which insulates from both cold and heat and
> maintains a comfortable 72F year-round with very little energy. Go
> back and look at the table I provided. You can see that in a typical
> home 60% of the energy it used to heat and cool the home. Here, that
> energy isn't needed because the house is underground. Beyond that,
> these homes contain;
>
> Staber washing machines www.staber.com
> Sunfrost refrigerators www.sunfrost.com
> Clivus Multrum composting toilets
> Compact fluorescent light bulbs
> Long-lasting energy efficent windows
>
> You asked for an example of any hydrogen I've made. This is one
> example. These homes were designed to be superior in every way but
> use only 40% of the energy typical for these homes. They could
> certainly use more if they wished, since the solar and wind systems
> are fully capable of supporting it.
>
> What do we do with extra hydrogen? The extra hydrogen runs the Rocky
> Mountain Institute's hypercars which are loaned to the group.
Does "Rocky Mountain Institute" actually know about any of this
Mokenergy stuff or anything about William Mook representing himself as
their official agent and expertise wizard?
So how much Mokenergy hydrogen is currently supplied to these highly
energy efficient but otherwise inactive homes of that mostly earthen
configuration?
BTW; because I don't much like having to live with only spot lighting
via LEDs and otherwise I'd need some continuous ventilation plus the
use of a few other appliances, so perhaps if the highly insulated home
were not more than 1000 sf and I lived alone so that I didn't have to
shower or do laundry more than once a month, as well as having no
outside yard or gardens to take care of, I'd likely still require
almost 500 watts just to do that little and run a good PC with it's
24" color LCD screen.
Not one soul that works for DoE has anything but purely subjective
knowledge (sort of like yourself) about how much all-inclusive energy
an active family home actually requires. Obviously we can all manage
to hunker down or do without and suck-it-up if that's the only option.
BTW again; apparently you don't even know how much energy it takes for
making a kg of ice per day. Ever heard of laundry or cooking/baking/
canning/freezing/refrigeration/dish-washing or how about making at
least two pots of coffee per day, and please don't forget about
recharging my all-electric car that needs to provide a 150 mile range
at least once a week, all because of my having to live out in those
earthen worthy hills that are a good 50 miles from the nearest city.
Perhaps in a highly sophisticated highrise condo with only the best
geothermal heat-exchanging that's all self-sufficient from deep wells,
solar, wind and your cheap hydrogen is where the all-inclusive energy
per active person might average 500 watts, or half that if the person
is essentially inactive and thus unproductive.
Meanwhile, how many hundred thousand (including its property and
everything necessary) are these little earthen homes of 500 sf or less
selling for?
Are we talking $1000/sf including all appliances, its property, well
and septic?
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
William Mook
Oct 27, 2011, 2:14:26 AM10/27/11
to
On Oct 25, 9:37 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So how much Mokenergy hydrogen is currently supplied to these highly
> energy efficient but otherwise inactive homes of that mostly earthen
> configuration?
I mentioned that figure previously.
> BTW; because I don't much like having to live with only spot lighting
> via LEDs and otherwise I'd need some continuous ventilation plus the
> use of a few other appliances,
You keep re-stating the same error. haha -
What is it with you Brad? I gave you a detailed break-down of what
the average US home uses from the DOE/EIA. The average home uses
energy at a rate of about 1,250 watts.
60% of that is for heating and cooling (in an electric home) Building
underground removes that. All you've got to do is control heat
exchange when you circulate air through the home.
This reduces the rate of energy use for the balance of all appliances
- to 500 Watts.
That's the basis of designing the system for 500 Watts.
Beyond this savings major appliances liked refrigeration - were
selected to be 1/8th the figure given in the DOE data I provided
previously.
> so perhaps if the highly insulated home
> were not more than 1000 sf and I lived alone so that I didn't have to
> shower or do laundry more than once a month, as well as having no
> outside yard or gardens to take care of, I'd likely still require
> almost 500 watts just to do that little and run a good PC with it's
> 24" color LCD screen.
haha - Brad, what is it about subtraction that baffles you? The
average home uses energy at an average rate of 1,250 Watts. Peak
power rating 20,000 Watts. haha - 60% of that or 750 Watts is used
for heating and cooling. This leaves 500 Watts for everything else.
That's the average, the peak drops to 10,000 Watts mostly to cover
current draw when refrigeration compressors start up.
Now when you build a home underground, and you don' t have to heat and
cool it - 60% goes bye bye.
The ground is at a constant 52F and the air temperature is maintained
at 72F. An air/air heat exchanger exchanges heat between outgoing and
incoming air.
http://www.smarthome.com/3033A/HE100-Air-to-Air-Exchanger/p.aspx
Appliances put off heat which is vented through this exchanger in the
winter. Vented directly in the summer.
So, the 500 Watts is an average. The peak is at 10,000 Watts. So,
when the Sony KDL-52XBR9 is switched on, it draws 300 Watts peak when
its first switched on, and averages 180 Watts.
But most normal people don't watch TV more than a few hours a day. I
watch it even less. 2.4 hours per day divided by 24 hours is an
average of 18 Watts in this case.
Never watch the television
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfTReNLDWg4
>
> Not one soul that works for DoE has anything but purely subjective
> knowledge (sort of like yourself) about how much all-inclusive energy
> an active family home actually requires.
So, now you are saying the 1,250 Watts average power usage and 20,000
Watts peak usage, is not reported properly by the DOE?
lol.
Brad, you need to learn to understand the difference between peak
power usage - 10,000 Watts in the underground house - and the average
power level - 500 Watts.
> Obviously we can all manage
> to hunker down or do without and suck-it-up if that's the only option.
The goal of the design, which was achieved, was to make use of all the
means possible to reduce energy use without any loss of services or
quality of life.
> BTW again; apparently you don't even know how much energy it takes for
> making a kg of ice per day.
Its all included in the list I posted previously. What do you think
'refrigeration' means? lol.
> Ever heard of laundry or cooking/baking/
> canning/freezing/refrigeration/dish-washing or how about making at
> least two pots of coffee per day,
That's all included in the list I posted previously.
> and please don't forget about
> recharging my all-electric car that needs to provide a 150 mile range
> at least once a week,
There is a separate system that takes excess power and makes hydrogen
to recharge the high pressure hydrogen tanks. These operate a
conventional thermal engine.
> all because of my having to live out in those
> earthen worthy hills that are a good 50 miles from the nearest city.
Only 8 miles from the nearest gas station. The car runs on both
hydrogen and diesel.
> Perhaps in a highly sophisticated highrise condo with only the best
> geothermal heat-exchanging that's all self-sufficient from deep wells,
> solar, wind and your cheap hydrogen is where the all-inclusive energy
> per active person might average 500 watts, or half that if the person
> is essentially inactive and thus unproductive.
You don't seem to understand that a family can consume 20,000 Watts
for a few minutes a day, 6,000 watts for a few hours a day, and 300
Watts for most the day, when they're at school, work, or sleeping -
and average 1,250 Watts.
Similarly, you seem especially dense when attempting to understand
that when you build a house underground, you don't need to heat and
cool it the same way. So, you can consume 10,000 Watts a few minutes
a day, 3,000 watts for a few hours a day, and 100 Watts for most of
the day, when you're at school, at work or sleeping, and average 500
Watts.
> Meanwhile, how many hundred thousand (including its property and
> everything necessary) are these little earthen homes of 500 sf or less
> selling for?
Talk to Malcolm Wells to get current pricing. The cost per square
foot is actually less than conventional construction.
> Are we talking $1000/sf including all appliances, its property, well
> and septic?
The composting toilets are made in Switzerland and that's a whole
topic all by itself.
> On Oct 25, 4:37 pm,WilliamMook<mokmedi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Brad,
>
> > The homes are sold and done. 500 Watts works just fine for these
> > homes. That's the whole point! haha...
>
> > Beyond being under-ground which insulates from both cold and heat and
> > maintains a comfortable 72F year-round with very little energy. Go
> > back and look at the table I provided. You can see that in a typical
> > home 60% of the energy it used to heat and cool the home. Here, that
> > energy isn't needed because the house is underground. Beyond that,
> > these homes contain;
>
> > Staber washing machines www.staber.com
> > Sunfrost refrigerators www.sunfrost.com
> > Clivus Multrum composting toilets
> > Compact fluorescent light bulbs
> > Long-lasting energy efficent windows
>
> > You asked for an example of any hydrogen I've made. This is one
> > example. These homes were designed to be superior in every way but
> > use only 40% of the energy typical for these homes. They could
> > certainly use more if they wished, since the solar and wind systems
> > are fully capable of supporting it.
>
> > What do we do with extra hydrogen? The extra hydrogen runs the Rocky
> > Mountain Institute's hypercars which are loaned to the group.
>
> Does "Rocky Mountain Institute" actually know about any of this
> Mokenergy stuff or anything aboutWilliamMookrepresenting himself as
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Brad,
>
> > The homes are sold and done. 500 Watts works just fine for these
> > homes. That's the whole point! haha...
>
> > Beyond being under-ground which insulates from both cold and heat and
> > maintains a comfortable 72F year-round with very little energy. Go
> > back and look at the table I provided. You can see that in a typical
> > home 60% of the energy it used to heat and cool the home. Here, that
> > energy isn't needed because the house is underground. Beyond that,
> > these homes contain;
>
> > Staber washing machines www.staber.com
> > Sunfrost refrigerators www.sunfrost.com
> > Clivus Multrum composting toilets
> > Compact fluorescent light bulbs
> > Long-lasting energy efficent windows
>
> > You asked for an example of any hydrogen I've made. This is one
> > example. These homes were designed to be superior in every way but
> > use only 40% of the energy typical for these homes. They could
> > certainly use more if they wished, since the solar and wind systems
> > are fully capable of supporting it.
>
> > What do we do with extra hydrogen? The extra hydrogen runs the Rocky
> > Mountain Institute's hypercars which are loaned to the group.
>
> Does "Rocky Mountain Institute" actually know about any of this
> their official agent and expertise wizard?
Well, we see why you're not a practicing attorney! lol.
> So how much Mokenergy hydrogen is currently supplied to these highly
> energy efficient but otherwise inactive homes of that mostly earthen
> configuration?
> BTW; because I don't much like having to live with only spot lighting
> via LEDs and otherwise I'd need some continuous ventilation plus the
> use of a few other appliances,
What is it with you Brad? I gave you a detailed break-down of what
the average US home uses from the DOE/EIA. The average home uses
energy at a rate of about 1,250 watts.
60% of that is for heating and cooling (in an electric home) Building
underground removes that. All you've got to do is control heat
exchange when you circulate air through the home.
This reduces the rate of energy use for the balance of all appliances
- to 500 Watts.
That's the basis of designing the system for 500 Watts.
Beyond this savings major appliances liked refrigeration - were
selected to be 1/8th the figure given in the DOE data I provided
previously.
> so perhaps if the highly insulated home
> were not more than 1000 sf and I lived alone so that I didn't have to
> shower or do laundry more than once a month, as well as having no
> outside yard or gardens to take care of, I'd likely still require
> almost 500 watts just to do that little and run a good PC with it's
> 24" color LCD screen.
average home uses energy at an average rate of 1,250 Watts. Peak
power rating 20,000 Watts. haha - 60% of that or 750 Watts is used
for heating and cooling. This leaves 500 Watts for everything else.
That's the average, the peak drops to 10,000 Watts mostly to cover
current draw when refrigeration compressors start up.
Now when you build a home underground, and you don' t have to heat and
cool it - 60% goes bye bye.
The ground is at a constant 52F and the air temperature is maintained
at 72F. An air/air heat exchanger exchanges heat between outgoing and
incoming air.
http://www.smarthome.com/3033A/HE100-Air-to-Air-Exchanger/p.aspx
Appliances put off heat which is vented through this exchanger in the
winter. Vented directly in the summer.
So, the 500 Watts is an average. The peak is at 10,000 Watts. So,
when the Sony KDL-52XBR9 is switched on, it draws 300 Watts peak when
its first switched on, and averages 180 Watts.
But most normal people don't watch TV more than a few hours a day. I
watch it even less. 2.4 hours per day divided by 24 hours is an
average of 18 Watts in this case.
Never watch the television
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfTReNLDWg4
>
> Not one soul that works for DoE has anything but purely subjective
> knowledge (sort of like yourself) about how much all-inclusive energy
> an active family home actually requires.
Watts peak usage, is not reported properly by the DOE?
lol.
Brad, you need to learn to understand the difference between peak
power usage - 10,000 Watts in the underground house - and the average
power level - 500 Watts.
> Obviously we can all manage
> to hunker down or do without and suck-it-up if that's the only option.
means possible to reduce energy use without any loss of services or
quality of life.
> BTW again; apparently you don't even know how much energy it takes for
> making a kg of ice per day.
'refrigeration' means? lol.
> Ever heard of laundry or cooking/baking/
> canning/freezing/refrigeration/dish-washing or how about making at
> least two pots of coffee per day,
> and please don't forget about
> recharging my all-electric car that needs to provide a 150 mile range
> at least once a week,
to recharge the high pressure hydrogen tanks. These operate a
conventional thermal engine.
> all because of my having to live out in those
> earthen worthy hills that are a good 50 miles from the nearest city.
hydrogen and diesel.
> Perhaps in a highly sophisticated highrise condo with only the best
> geothermal heat-exchanging that's all self-sufficient from deep wells,
> solar, wind and your cheap hydrogen is where the all-inclusive energy
> per active person might average 500 watts, or half that if the person
> is essentially inactive and thus unproductive.
for a few minutes a day, 6,000 watts for a few hours a day, and 300
Watts for most the day, when they're at school, work, or sleeping -
and average 1,250 Watts.
Similarly, you seem especially dense when attempting to understand
that when you build a house underground, you don't need to heat and
cool it the same way. So, you can consume 10,000 Watts a few minutes
a day, 3,000 watts for a few hours a day, and 100 Watts for most of
the day, when you're at school, at work or sleeping, and average 500
Watts.
> Meanwhile, how many hundred thousand (including its property and
> everything necessary) are these little earthen homes of 500 sf or less
> selling for?
foot is actually less than conventional construction.
> Are we talking $1000/sf including all appliances, its property, well
> and septic?
topic all by itself.
Brad Guth
Oct 27, 2011, 9:57:33 AM10/27/11
to
for a 1000 sf home, and pay some community membership fee on top of
that?
Are these spendy homes and their larger area of property not taxable?
How flood, storm and earthquake proof are these earthen homes and
their infrastructure?
Local jobs?
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