15 Point Plan for Reform of America's Dysfunctional Political System
Sean
============
The Core Issues behind America's modern dysfunctional Political System
and
A simple 15 Point Plan for Reform and Repairing the system back to working
order.
2009-11-22
=====
Introduction
Bret, and many others on these newsgroups are *issues focused* activists,
which is fine.
Today's flavor is heath care for Bret, and why he sees that the GOP is the
primary cause of the problem today. Of course this is not actually true, and
any well balanced and objective and rationally informed reading of History
would, imo, show this with distinct clarity.
The underlying core issue is really the TWO *corrupt political parties* in
America, both of them and their supporters across the board. It is about how
these two special interest political groups have allowed the *corruption* of
the entire political processes in the USA over recent decades.
Both are snakes in the grass, both speak with forked tongues .. to put an
emotional spin onto it, despite any self-deluded *good intentions*.The road
to hell is paved with good intentions ... so says Satan at the greet and
meet door. But Politicians in other nations are not necessarily any better
as individuals over time, but the key difference that comes into play here
is the established *political systems* themselves and how they operate on a
daily basis within the body politic of different nations, which includes the
maturity and integrity of the media as the Fourth Estate as well.
But one needs to be alert and recognize the difference between a
dysfunctional biased and manipulating media circus as being a primary
causative agent for the spreading of deceptive news reports and analysis,
against the reality that it is the Political System itself in America that
is the cause of the pathetic level of public debate and low standard of news
services and gathering in the USA
Heath Care which is the flavor of the moment, and every other issue from the
two con-current Wars in the middle east, the unilateral support for Israel
no matter what for 60 years, to the existence and practices within
Guantanamo Bay, and the acceptance of the irrational sophist arguments that
attempt to justify Secret Renditions and Torture in the name of Freedom and
Liberty is a direct outcome of the corrupted Political System of the USA and
everything that works overtly and covertly to sustains that as a Status Quo.
The almost fanatical and mythical belief in the American version of the
two-party system is at the core of this conscious deceit upon the American
people, and the rest of the world as well.There are many ways to fix it, but
the first key ingredient is of course a healthy dose of Integrity mixed with
Reason. You remember, the Enlightenment period that produced the likes of
Jefferson, Washington, Madison and all the others of that age?
It was about enlightened Reason, free and open dialogue amongst men of means
be it land, business, banking, intelligence, or plain common sense. Well it
was actually UN-common then , but today one would have thought that it would
be a little more common today, but sadly it is not. The state of play has
been seriously taken back towards the dark Ages, and not been handled like
the Founding fathers imagined was the future for a Progressive Liberal
Democracy.
So I have done a bit of long-term research and have put together this little
summary which captures the ideas and work of many many experts in the fields
of Human Psychology, Political Science, Economics, the Humanities, and
Constitutional Law. What I have found is many imaginative, creative and
actually quite rational changes within the institutional structures and
processes of the American Democratic system that would include such things
as the following - though not necessarily them specifically .. one needs to
arrive at a holistic approach where all parts of the *machine* work together
in harmony to produce the desired outcomes.
The facts on the ground clearly suggest that for some time something has
seriously run off the rails of the Democratic train in America .... but it
is the *attitudinal changes* required in the current beliefs of what is -
where the true work remains to be done. The following are but mere ideas
generators, examples of extracting oneself fro the mental boxes that have
been fed all the people since they were on their mothers knees. There is a
severe disconnect between the beliefs and the reality, and this is what is
the cause of all the Brets and all the tea parties and political "opinion
makers" .... but if the basics are not seen for what they are .. then all
this spin and outspokenness and drama is all a waste of time which will
achieve nothing much better than a civil war, or similar fracturing of the
American psyche as a distinct group of people supposedly holding the
relatively the very same CORE VALUES - when today they obviously do not!
====
The 15 Point Plan
There are actually some very simple practical things that occur now, which
is the very reason why the Political process of Government actually does NOT
work very well in the USA today. And it has nothing to do with one's
position of being to the left or the right, an anarchist or a libertarian.
Some example integrated changes and POLITICAL REFORM that need to be taken
which would actually improve the situation permanently over the long term,
and achieve outcomes hitherto not ever believed possible, and for the
Benefit of the entire nation today and throughout this century would include
the following not new and already proven ideas :
1) Elections to be held once every 4 years, and not 2.
2) The entire House of Representatives to be up for election each 4 year
election cycle. This ensures the entire lot of them in the House are forced
back to the polls and the people to be re-elected or kicked out as
individuals by their own Local constituents. iow set 4 year terms for each
member.
3) Each HoR's Electorate to be no larger than 100,000 people of voting
ge - whether they are registered voters or not. This is the community that
each Representative is responsible to REPRESENT. HoR's members are supposed
to Represent ALL the people who live in their electorate, whether they Vote
or not, registered or not. This IS THEIR KEY responsibility here, and it is
on their shoulders to make sure they Vote accordingly.
3a) A proportional Voting system to be applied, so that no Rep can be
elected to office wihtout having the first or second preference of at least
50% of the actual voters on the day. This means that if the GOP gains 45%
of the primary vote, but the Democrats 38%, and the Greens 14% together gain
52% of the vote, then the Democrat is elected to Office because 52% of the
voters do NOT want the GOP party to represent them.
4) A Fed. Govt funded but a totally arms-length from Congress fully
Independent Organization - an Electoral Commission sworn to uphold their
responsibilities to the People and not the Political parties to be
responsible for setting these Electorates, and to be funded to be able to
actually DO the work required.
5) This Electoral Commission is to be SOLELY responsible for the organizing
of Voter Registrations - and the running of all Elections with NO political
party involvement bar allowing independent "observers" to view the Election
processes are free and fair.
6) The Senate is the biggest bottle neck. It to be expanded to at least 6
Senators elected from each State ie 300 all up. [ yes you need a bigger
building - it is not 1865 anymore ]
7) Senators are to be elected for a fixed 8 year term, and then need to go
back to the people for re-election.
8) Half the Senate is up for election every 4 years .... similar to how it
works now, but the details and affects WILL be different than now for other
reasons.
9) Senators are to be elected also under a Proportional Voting system
similar to most other modern Democracies, and not a "first past the post
system". See the Australian Senate as one example that works better than the
current US electoral system does.
10) Therefore 3 Senators to be elected at each 4 year cycle -- and by
implementing a proportional system it will BREAK the BACK of the two party
Monopoly in the Senate, and therefore their control over the entire system
as well. So, in a GOP state, you will end up with 2 GOP guys and either one
Democrat or Independent also getting a gig at DC.
10a) so over time ... one will find that NEITHER the GOP, nor the DEMOCRATS
will be able to hold a clear majority in the Senate - EVER. Together they
can come to a bi-partisan agreement and get laws passed in the senate, but
they will not be able to do it alone. But more than this .. the Democrats
can go to the Independents, the Greens, and others who will enter the
senate over time, to seek support for their Legislation without ANY recourse
to the ideologically opposed GOP, and Vice-Versa.
10b) On top of this, rather than having 100% of the senators being
represented by either the GOP or the Democrats ... the Senate will be More
Representative of the beliefs, ideals and values of ALL people across the
nation which are now and have been forever IGNORED by the Two Party system
.. Why? because they COULD ignore it.
10c) And even more than this ... by changing the system the American people
will begin to HEAR about a much broader range of ideas and solutions to the
nations problems without the GOP/Dems controlling the entire PUBLIC DEBATE
about what is true, what is real, and what people really want -- eg for over
30 years history tells me that the clear majority of people of the US have
been crying out for a reformed health care system that serves the needs of
The People and which includes a Universal health care cover component. But
for 30 years the GOP/Dem have been avoiding this issue completely, instead
preferring to prevaricate and drive the system into a ditch relative to ALL
other Civilized nations on the planet.
11) ALL Laws to be passed in BOTH Houses of Congress on a purely simple
Majority of Votes. No more this archane irrational 60% requirement which is
anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-good Governance --- and merely another
deceptive tool for control by special interest groups ie the Political
parties and their Lobbyist/Funders.
12) The removal of the restriction against individuals from serving more
than two terms as President - this is a GROSS infringement on the liberty of
the individual running for office, and the people who WOULD vote for them if
they were up for office. This current situation was put in place by partisan
operatives for THEIR OWN benefit it has nothing to do with the fear of a
president becoming a Dictator at all .... if the system works, if the
Congress works and fulfills IT's responsibilities [ which it abandoned
entirely during GW Bush's time], then NO President can ever become a
Dictator.
IOW it was a LIE, and they changed the Constitution without any recourse to
The People.
13) The removal of the restriction that a president running for office MUST
be an American Born Citizen -- this too is anti-democratic, and another
GROSS infringement on the Liberty of individuals. The current condition was
imposed in 1789 due to the then *state of the world* in particular the fear
of the Founding fathers that their nation could be influenced by powerfully
rich Monarchists and others from Europe which may undermine their *fledgling
Democracy*. It is NO longer the case, and therefore THIS restriction should
be removed outright. A nation needs it's BEST person for the position .. to
continue in the current course places the USA back into the era of the Birth
Right of Kings .. but in reverse. It is just as UNJUST, insidious and
irrationally based.
14) The current GOP/DEM system means that they have total control over the
rules and administration of what individuals and parties need to go through
in order to put up people to run in the House, the Senate and for the
Presidency. These control mechanisms have been HIJACKED to cause the
restriction of the entry of new participants into the POLITICAL Process of
the USA. The reasoning has always been a lie to maintain their own power
base, and control. The processes need to be rationally based, and shifted to
the Electoral Commission - a group of Public Servants sworn to abide by that
org .. and not be beholding to partisan self-interests. NO Political party
can be allowed to be a "cog" in the Electoral processes whatsoever, bar
handing someone a Voter Registration card, or a How to Vote advert. That's
it.
Until this is fixed, and recognized for what it is *a tyranny of power by
the elite over the people* [ no different than Monarchist Europe in the
18th/19th Centuries that America rejected out of hand in 1776, then nothing
will ever change bar the now current direction of the nation .......being
into a ditch and a total breakdown of civil society.
and lastly ...
15) Any changes to the US Constitution are to be Voted upon By Referendum by
the entire body politic of the nation ... ie The People by a Yes/No Vote. A
majority of the Voters across the nation PLUS a majority of voters in over
60% of the individual States and territories must vote YES for the change to
be effective [ to ensure regional self-interest is balanced out , and that
populated States/regions can't control the outcome ] .. Such Votes on
Constitutional changes shall be put to the people Via the Congress, and be
ratified by Congress and signed into law by the then President who CANNOT
REFUSE the will of the People on such foundational matters. NO State
legislature, or Governor has a say in this whatsoever ... the entire people
of the nation decides.
=========
SUMMARY Thoughts ...
Well that pretty much covers the basics, the simple bits to be adjusted and
Reformed .... fix all the above, and Health Care will almost FIX ITSELF ..
and you will NEVER ever get another Idiot like GW Bush as President, nor
uneducated irrational incompetents like Sarah Palin being chosen to run for
Vice-president.
Therefore it will be a guaranteed Win_Win for everyone except the current
Powers that Be ... who have given you the Global Financial Crisis, 60% of GM
owned by the Government, an unsustainable Foreign Debt knocking on the door
of Default and National bankruptcy, 15% plus unemployment, the largest group
and the most extensive fraudulent Businessmen in the world bar none, a
minimum 15% of Home Mortgages in default heading towards 30% if things don't
turn around, as well as all the wasted human lives and resources and the
non-stop destruction of other nations from being engaged in clearly
unnecessary and endless Wars since WWII was won --- whilst they suck all
your tax dollars, be you rich poor or middle class, to waste it for no real
or sustainable benefit whatsoever.
There is another way however, but it would still require the implementation
of the points mentioned above already as well ...
This other alternative is, of course, to take note of the realities of the
former USSR and realize that America has become un-Governable as it is due
to it's sheer size and population .. which is complicated from the non-stop
competing interests and values of Individuals across the land. The original
Bond has been broken, but no on e wants to face this reality, this truth so
to speak.
Some common sense would show that the break-up of America into 3 or 4 new
separate independent Sovereign Nations is a distinct positive alternative
worth considering by mature down-to-earth competent heads in depth. Several
Independent nation sates, operating within a shared/agreed Economic Zone -
Common market type arrangement such that it more closely reflected the
realities on the ground of the different [ usually un-compromising ] ethical
and moral Values of each region of the USA.
Such as the North East, the West Coast, the Deep South, and Central North
regions being able to set their own "moral and economic" agendas and
Lifestyles. may the best alternative then reign supreme, or may they all
find that life is better, and all Win from such a drastic Reform.
It's a simple as re-visiting such global decisions like abortion, and
deciding again what the people wish. No Abortion in the South or Central ...
but Abortion covered by a Universal Public heath care system in the West and
the North East. Texas can go fort it and then teach Creationism as a Science
Subject in Schools .. and if any Right Wing Bible Bashing Christian-Zionist
isn't happy where they are then they can simply jump in the Humvee and drive
out of California to the United States of Deep South America ... and
everyone will be a lot happier, with hardly anything left to endlessly ARGUE
ABOUT until hell freezes over!
See? Personally, it is very clear to me that the rest of the world and not
just myself are very sick to death of hearing about these endless arguments
that you Americans appear to be completely unable to ever find agreement on
and put it to rest.
It would have been a lot easier though and less expensive if the South had
won the Civil War, or the North had never bothered to fight it, and just
accept the hugely DIVERGENT values were entirely different- are STILL
different too, ... as different as the American Colonies values were from
the powers that be in Monarchist Europe in 1776.
But that's is another story.
Anyway, that's my summary of some very competent and knowledgeable experts
including PH D's and the like ... of course I totally expect that very very
little of it will find fertile soil inside the borders of America. And if
that is the case, then I have no problem with that. It is for Americans to
decide ... of course. I just doubt that they have much of a chance of making
the best choices, especially IF the recent History of the last half a
century, is anything to go on.
Cheers Sean
Mason C
>Posted from alt.philosophy
>============
>The Core Issues behind America's modern dysfunctional Political System
Hilary Clinton's health plan, the current 2000 page health plan, and this
15-point voluminous proposal have one thing in common: volume.
I propose a one-line solution:
Amendment to the Bill of Rights:
"Money is not speech and is not protected by the free-speech amendment."
The Supreme Court's immoral declaration that money is speech is the reason
it is impossible to stop the corruption of government by money.
Sean
"Mason C" <maso...@XXXfrontal-lobe.info> wrote in message
news:6bhhg5pudibhi5oru...@4ax.com...
Agreed .. though to me it is the same bone but different horse ..
[emphasis ]
How exactly to you propose chnaging the Bill of Rights without FIRST
implenmting something as wide-ranging as the 15 point plan [ whatever the
specificis that you may prefer above what I humbly suggested as a starting
point for discussion ..
another way to put your pov, which i agree with is to emphsaise the pouint
that non-human entities such as Corporations have NO RIGHTS to participate
in the Political Process IN ANY FORM WHATSOEVER.
That the only "entities" that in reality do possess any RIGHTS under the US
Constitution is as clearly articulated in the Declaration of Independence
namely ::
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, "
On this basis, I see no need to adjust the Bill of Rights, but a recognition
that Corporations, banks, and every other organisation in the Land including
Polital parties .. have absolutely NO RIGHTS under the current Constituion
... bar falling into line with Contract law, and abiding by ALL laws written
by The People's representitives, and that these representatives have NO
POWER to declare a non-entuity as having any powers that go beyond that of
every single Indiivudal person in the entire land irrerspective of their
position in society, or their financial wealth.
See ....????
All that is a missing is the WILL to enforce this Truth, and to stop lying
about it and manipuklating the people that somehow thier pursuit of
happiness depends on the success or failure of the likes of Goldman Sachs or
GM, or the GOP ... for all are utterly irrelvant and side issues of no great
import to life on earth.
thx for your comments .. much appreciated.
PS
regarding your point about "voluminous proposals" ......... it took the
founding fathers of America from 1776 untill 1789 to write a Constituion and
have it accepted. if you stopped for a few minutes and only looked at the
writings of Publius you will get an immedite picture that there IS no other
way of doing it .. but by getting down and getting your hands dirty and
getting into the *voluminous* aspects of running a natio of 305 million
individual Souls ... I recommend that this 'talking points " mentality, of
seeking *one-liner solutions* to what are intricate human realites is a key
part of the problem ... shoudl thanks the enlightened men who create Amercia
for not being so god-damned LAZY and simple-minded.
imho, of course. Your mileage may well vary .... but it does appear
sefl-evident to me that this is a national Affliction more widespread and
dangerous than Swine Flu, or Terrorists, or Global Warming .. or the 3
combined.
<vbg>
Michael Gordge
> The underlying core issue is really the TWO *corrupt political parties*...
Ewe stupid commie, how the fuck does one corrupt that which is
already, has always been, and always will be corrupt and evil, i.e.
socialism?
MG
Mason C
>Posted from alt.philosophy
>============
>The Core Issues behind America's modern dysfunctional Political System
>
>and
>
>A simple 15 Point Plan for Reform and Repairing the system back to working
>order.
>
>2009-11-22
Hilary Clinton's health plan, the current 2000 page health plan, and this
15-point voluminous proposal have two things in common: volume and
they'll never happen.
I propose a one-line solution, a simple amendment to the Bill of Rights:
"Money is not speech and is not protected by the free-speech amendment."
The Supreme Court's immoral declaration that money is speech is the reason
it is impossible to stop the corruption of government by money.
Someone made a good suggestion: Corporations are not people and have
no rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Good idea.
jos boersema
[...]
> So I have done a bit of long-term research and have put together this little
> summary which captures the ideas and work of many many experts in the fields
> of Human Psychology, Political Science, Economics, the Humanities, and
> Constitutional Law. What I have found is many imaginative, creative and
> actually quite rational changes within the institutional structures and
> processes of the American Democratic system that would include such things
> as the following - though not necessarily them specifically .. one needs to
> arrive at a holistic approach where all parts of the *machine* work together
> in harmony to produce the desired outcomes.
How about this: http://www.davidwe.nl ?
That's my work, and it aims specifically to solve all the problems you
mention, really solve them for the long term. That requires a good
understanding of economics, so if you want to understand it you will
need to learn economics too. For example why free trade is good (you
may already know) but why free finance is bad (and that most people do
not know), etc.
My plan could be called a 4 poin plan, by the way. Or a 9 point plan.
Or a 239 point plan (increasing order of precision).
> The facts on the ground clearly suggest that for some time something has
> seriously run off the rails of the Democratic train in America .... but it
> is the *attitudinal changes* required in the current beliefs of what is -
> where the true work remains to be done. The following are but mere ideas
> generators, examples of extracting oneself fro the mental boxes that have
> been fed all the people since they were on their mothers knees. There is a
> severe disconnect between the beliefs and the reality, and this is what is
> the cause of all the Brets and all the tea parties and political "opinion
> makers" .... but if the basics are not seen for what they are .. then all
> this spin and outspokenness and drama is all a waste of time which will
> achieve nothing much better than a civil war, or similar fracturing of the
> American psyche as a distinct group of people supposedly holding the
> relatively the very same CORE VALUES - when today they obviously do not!
>
>====
>
> The 15 Point Plan
>
> There are actually some very simple practical things that occur now, which
> is the very reason why the Political process of Government actually does NOT
> work very well in the USA today. And it has nothing to do with one's
> position of being to the left or the right, an anarchist or a libertarian.
>
> Some example integrated changes and POLITICAL REFORM that need to be taken
> which would actually improve the situation permanently over the long term,
> and achieve outcomes hitherto not ever believed possible, and for the
> Benefit of the entire nation today and throughout this century would include
> the following not new and already proven ideas :
Yeah ? Hmm.... On a 15 point program, you turn the USA around ?
First thing you need is disunite the USA empire, if you don't do that,
don't even bother.
> 1) Elections to be held once every 4 years, and not 2.
Useless. Extremely useless in fact and even counter productive.
> 2) The entire House of Representatives to be up for election each 4 year
> election cycle. This ensures the entire lot of them in the House are forced
> back to the polls and the people to be re-elected or kicked out as
> individuals by their own Local constituents. iow set 4 year terms for each
> member.
Agreed (it's in my system also, though every 5 years, and you can
constantly rotate away a delegate for a new one -- but my model is
very different then what you are used to).
> 3) Each HoR's Electorate to be no larger than 100,000 people of voting
> ge - whether they are registered voters or not. This is the community that
> each Representative is responsible to REPRESENT. HoR's members are supposed
> to Represent ALL the people who live in their electorate, whether they Vote
> or not, registered or not. This IS THEIR KEY responsibility here, and it is
> on their shoulders to make sure they Vote accordingly.
It sounds practically like you are stealing ideas from me, and then
mangling them up a bit. I assume you are unaware of my ideas though.
Anyway: in my model people group not in groups of 100.000, but 50.
The idea is that they can know their representative intimately, and
replace him/her any moment. The problem of an excess of delegates is
handled sufficiently, see the model. Delegates combine in local
governments with 50 or more. They can again group in sections, 50
sections each electing one reprentative from between themselves. Those
twice elected councils govern cities, counties and one just like it
is elected to national Government. This is all worked out in tight
detail (http://www.socialism.nl). This representative model is combined
with a dynamic Referendum law, where not-voted-votes are filled in by
the representatives.
Point: my model is not a vague stab at things, I'm billing it at as
'proposal' but it really is a complete solution that is to work for
sure.
> 3a) A proportional Voting system to be applied, so that no Rep can be
> elected to office wihtout having the first or second preference of at least
> 50% of the actual voters on the day. This means that if the GOP gains 45%
> of the primary vote, but the Democrats 38%, and the Greens 14% together gain
> 52% of the vote, then the Democrat is elected to Office because 52% of the
> voters do NOT want the GOP party to represent them.
Retaining the cesspools that political parties are ?
In my model there aren't political parties, although you can still have
them because voter-groups (50 persons or - a little - more) can elect
anyone. That affords every group of 2 people or even 1 to form a
"political party" and offer to be elected by some voter group. That
affords very very very small political parties to immediately gain
representation. The whole question of political parties becomes casual
and unimportant.
It is, perhaps, useful to notice though, that once delegates are elected
that have combined into clubs, that in my opinion the proceedings of
those clubs belong under the constitutional demand of public government.
Meaning they can not have meetings behind closed doors the public is
unaware off. Otherwise, the freedom to combine is a basic right.
> 4) A Fed. Govt funded but a totally arms-length from Congress fully
> Independent Organization - an Electoral Commission sworn to uphold their
> responsibilities to the People and not the Political parties to be
> responsible for setting these Electorates, and to be funded to be able to
> actually DO the work required.
Useless. First you need to do away with the federation, it can only
fail. Under my model except the size reduction: it will almost certainly
also fail. It can only fail if it is that big, and it is also not
necessary to combine that big. The human brain can abtract a lot and
so on, but at some point the problems are better handled in a more
localized nearby manner. If you are born in Alaska, what business do you
have deciding on how building permits are to be granted in Florida ?
Aren't there people able to think for themselves in Florida ? Aren't
they supposed to have their own sovereign life there as a nation ?
Americans have to let go of their empire and imperial way of thinking.
Swearing accomplishes next to nothing, imho. Provide some means of
legal redress for voters at the courts, that's better. That bites.
> 5) This Electoral Commission is to be SOLELY responsible for the organizing
> of Voter Registrations - and the running of all Elections with NO political
> party involvement bar allowing independent "observers" to view the Election
> processes are free and fair.
In my model there is a national (NOTICE that 'national' means a group of
about 10 to 30 million people!!!) ... there is a national 'electoral
committee' which sets election dates by sovereign decision, it can also
make the Government fall any moment.
I like the Government to hang not just by one thin thread, but by a
series of thin threads connected to each other vertically :). A delegate
can fall from top Government any second of the day, by its voter group,
by its delegates section, by the Electoral Committee ordering new
elections, ... Don't let them get too comfy :). No, let them constantly
have the feeling they're hanging from a long thin thread. All they are
to have going for them is their honorable record and competent work,
that's to be the only chance they have to continue on the job. Even that
doesn't work though, because there is also to be casual rotating in and
out of delegates. Contrary to what Americans might believe, governing
really isn't that difficult at all. Look how destructive governments
often are to a nation, still many nations battle on despite their
governments.
> 6) The Senate is the biggest bottle neck. It to be expanded to at least 6
> Senators elected from each State ie 300 all up. [ yes you need a bigger
> building - it is not 1865 anymore ]
Not the way imho.
IF you want to restore the USA Constitution, if I where you i'd do it
by trying to do mini USA Constitutional models in each state or small
collection of small states. So the USA would become a patch-work of
a good number of sovereign nations. Each with their own currency, their
own everything, completely sovereign. Provided you do something about
your economic model, there is a serious chance it will work, imho.
I estimate that it will probably have a better then 60% success rate
(wild guess of course).
> 7) Senators are to be elected for a fixed 8 year term, and then need to go
> back to the people for re-election.
Far too long. Is there a way to get rid of one any moment ?
> 8) Half the Senate is up for election every 4 years .... similar to how it
> works now, but the details and affects WILL be different than now for other
> reasons.
>
> 9) Senators are to be elected also under a Proportional Voting system
> similar to most other modern Democracies, and not a "first past the post
> system". See the Australian Senate as one example that works better than the
> current US electoral system does.
>
> 10) Therefore 3 Senators to be elected at each 4 year cycle -- and by
> implementing a proportional system it will BREAK the BACK of the two party
> Monopoly in the Senate, and therefore their control over the entire system
> as well. So, in a GOP state, you will end up with 2 GOP guys and either one
> Democrat or Independent also getting a gig at DC.
You want to break the back of the powers that be in your nation:
http://www.socialism.nl That's the way, not merely the government power,
but also the finance and industrial powers. Who do you think owns the
government ? It's not the people. In my model the GOP and Democrats
will probably seaze to exist altogether, drowned into irrelevance.
> 10a) so over time ... one will find that NEITHER the GOP, nor the DEMOCRATS
> will be able to hold a clear majority in the Senate - EVER. Together they
> can come to a bi-partisan agreement and get laws passed in the senate, but
> they will not be able to do it alone. But more than this .. the Democrats
> can go to the Independents, the Greens, and others who will enter the
> senate over time, to seek support for their Legislation without ANY recourse
> to the ideologically opposed GOP, and Vice-Versa.
If you want small parties to have more relevance, you might want to
look into the parliamentary model of the neo-Roman system as used by
some European nations. In that model a government needs support from
a majority of the parliament. They can achieve this support depending
on their seats, a small party can just make the difference and thereby
become politically relevant.
However, that too is a neo-Roman model and it neither really functions.
Considder the essence of the neo-Roman factions models:
- the people divide into factions
- the factions fight for votes
- the winner(s) may rule, sometimes needing to cooperate for majorities.
No, it is not cute, it is insane. Better the civil war though, granted.
Why does there always occur this left/rigth schism, a pro-capital
anti-labor versus anti-capital pro-labor division ? Because that is
the essential schism that occurs in a free trade society that allows
free business investment. The money will always be at war with the
wages. Thus such an economic model produces two clases: finance & power,
and labor and the rest. Then if you throw a factions model in the
Government, they both tend to take a sector of the power. If you put
a singular system over it, either one or the other will rule, but in
actual practice such a non-democratic power will tend to align itself
with the power side of the two classes, and that's finance and business
ownership. Power cuddles up to power.
Solution of that issue is not a state organization issue, but an
economic issue. If you forget to solve that, in your changed model
you will simply find it reproduced and the old battles continue.
Solution: investment must be licensed by the common good, and most/all
businesses must transition from tirany to democracy also, just like
the state. A more human society. Then the power-class is simply gone,
the people who where in it are still there, but they have no power
anymore to abuse other people (which they have to, in order to win
the financial competition). So they have to join labor and work, and
be happy people.
> 10b) On top of this, rather than having 100% of the senators being
> represented by either the GOP or the Democrats ... the Senate will be More
> Representative of the beliefs, ideals and values of ALL people across the
> nation which are now and have been forever IGNORED by the Two Party system
> .. Why? because they COULD ignore it.
It is true that 'winner takes all' is a very bad variation of the
neo-Roman model, because the big ones soak up all the votes. The
two big parties constantly gain each others protest votes and strategic
votes ("have to vote on one already big, or it won't win.") Then the
two "contending" parties both become corrupt, and they start to play
against the voters.
> 10c) And even more than this ... by changing the system the American people
> will begin to HEAR about a much broader range of ideas and solutions to the
> nations problems without the GOP/Dems controlling the entire PUBLIC DEBATE
> about what is true, what is real, and what people really want -- eg for over
> 30 years history tells me that the clear majority of people of the US have
> been crying out for a reformed health care system that serves the needs of
> The People and which includes a Universal health care cover component. But
> for 30 years the GOP/Dem have been avoiding this issue completely, instead
> preferring to prevaricate and drive the system into a ditch relative to ALL
> other Civilized nations on the planet.
This seems to be an issue of media and finance. The media is set up,
funded, by finance, and lives from perks for news stories given to it
by those in power, and advertizing under the control of the business
tirants.
It is the finance power also which markets the GOP and the Democrats.
So it is ultimately not the GOP or Democrats who set the agenda, it is
finance influencing both the GOP, the Democrats, and the media. In the
end it is all corrupt, one big ball of corruption. Note that finance has
great power over the economy, they can use that power to make the
national Government do what they want. If the national government
misbehaves on the dictates of finance or crosses its designs, then the
finance power for example can start to cause havoc with its money in the
economy. The national government might understand, but the media won't
explain it to the public, who will blame the national government.
Americans, as all people, seem to have forgotten that there is a
tremendous other branch of Government active in all nations: finance.
Business finance (loans and shares/stocks).
> 11) ALL Laws to be passed in BOTH Houses of Congress on a purely simple
> Majority of Votes. No more this archane irrational 60% requirement which is
> anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-good Governance --- and merely another
> deceptive tool for control by special interest groups ie the Political
> parties and their Lobbyist/Funders.
I doubt that would help, likely it wouldn't. It is not illogical to have
a 60% requirenment, because you don't want to risk a law being installed
and repealed on a whim when the majority hangs around 50%.
> 12) The removal of the restriction against individuals from serving more
> than two terms as President - this is a GROSS infringement on the liberty of
> the individual running for office, and the people who WOULD vote for them if
> they were up for office. This current situation was put in place by partisan
> operatives for THEIR OWN benefit it has nothing to do with the fear of a
> president becoming a Dictator at all .... if the system works, if the
> Congress works and fulfills IT's responsibilities [ which it abandoned
> entirely during GW Bush's time], then NO President can ever become a
> Dictator.
> IOW it was a LIE, and they changed the Constitution without any recourse to
> The People.
I'm not a fan of a 2 term law either, because when you finally find a
good guy, you're losing that guy by force of law.
> 13) The removal of the restriction that a president running for office MUST
> be an American Born Citizen -- this too is anti-democratic, and another
> GROSS infringement on the Liberty of individuals. The current condition was
> imposed in 1789 due to the then *state of the world* in particular the fear
> of the Founding fathers that their nation could be influenced by powerfully
> rich Monarchists and others from Europe which may undermine their *fledgling
> Democracy*. It is NO longer the case, and therefore THIS restriction should
> be removed outright. A nation needs it's BEST person for the position .. to
> continue in the current course places the USA back into the era of the Birth
> Right of Kings .. but in reverse. It is just as UNJUST, insidious and
> irrationally based.
I don't think it is that relevant either way.
I merged the USA bill of Rights into my Constitution proposal:
http://www.jhwh.be/post/002/merged/usa-BillOfRights-merged-constitution-.txt
Here the original:
http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/constitution-short.html
Hopefully the USA people would like to vote, or ... vote with their
feet: http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/sheet3.txt in peaceful tea / coffee
drinking 'revolution' (resurection of the People.)
>=========
>
> SUMMARY Thoughts ...
>
> Well that pretty much covers the basics, the simple bits to be adjusted and
> Reformed .... fix all the above, and Health Care will almost FIX ITSELF ..
No. Your changes will practically change nothing, I don' think it would
even have a marginal impact. The only thing that it would accomplish is
strike fear in the hearts of the criminal elites, because if you can get
that passed, who knows what you'll get passed next. Power is apparently
shifting back to the public, and people are thinking about things.
*That* may change everything, but your system-changes, say if they could
be done right now on the flick of a wrist without any effort, i think
they would make zero impact.
Still ... the more people are thinking about the fundamentals of the
system, that's the way forward. Only question is: what should it be
right now, what's the scheme most likely to yield results.
Your Referendum proposal is a good one though, that may help some.
Provided you can ensure no electronic voting. Also the yes/no vote
i find that far too limited. It is not hard to manipulate it then.
But you could boot more and better changes in using that. So that
is great. My political party scheme also starts with making a Referendum
law (3.1.b) in the constitution.
> and you will NEVER ever get another Idiot like GW Bush as President, nor
> uneducated irrational incompetents like Sarah Palin being chosen to run for
> Vice-president.
No ? You surely will, it's just the same. Same parties, same economic
issues, same problems. Same mass-voting ...
> Therefore it will be a guaranteed Win_Win for everyone except the current
> Powers that Be ... who have given you the Global Financial Crisis, 60% of GM
> owned by the Government, an unsustainable Foreign Debt knocking on the door
> of Default and National bankruptcy, 15% plus unemployment, the largest group
> and the most extensive fraudulent Businessmen in the world bar none, a
> minimum 15% of Home Mortgages in default heading towards 30% if things don't
> turn around, as well as all the wasted human lives and resources and the
> non-stop destruction of other nations from being engaged in clearly
> unnecessary and endless Wars since WWII was won --- whilst they suck all
> your tax dollars, be you rich poor or middle class, to waste it for no real
> or sustainable benefit whatsoever.
>
> There is another way however, but it would still require the implementation
> of the points mentioned above already as well ...
>
> This other alternative is, of course, to take note of the realities of the
> former USSR and realize that America has become un-Governable as it is due
> to it's sheer size and population ..
Correct.
> which is complicated from the non-stop
> competing interests and values of Individuals across the land. The original
> Bond has been broken, but no on e wants to face this reality, this truth so
> to speak.
>
> Some common sense would show that the break-up of America into 3 or 4 new
> separate independent Sovereign Nations is a distinct positive alternative
> worth considering by mature down-to-earth competent heads in depth.
! Exactly!
> Several
> Independent nation sates, operating within a shared/agreed Economic Zone -
> Common market type arrangement such that it more closely reflected the
> realities on the ground of the different [ usually un-compromising ] ethical
> and moral Values of each region of the USA.
>
> Such as the North East, the West Coast, the Deep South, and Central North
> regions being able to set their own "moral and economic" agendas and
> Lifestyles. may the best alternative then reign supreme, or may they all
> find that life is better, and all Win from such a drastic Reform.
Something like that. I think best nation size is between 10 to 30
million. 30 million is the current world average (ignoring the EU).
I find that quite large to be honest (but that may be due because I'm
Dutch, which is 17 million roughly).
Also give the North American indians all the land they want, and move
out of their way. You can then have new brother nations, and they can
help you maybe, show you. That's the greatest asset you have on your
whole continent.
> It's a simple as re-visiting such global decisions like abortion, and
> deciding again what the people wish. No Abortion in the South or Central ...
> but Abortion covered by a Universal Public heath care system in the West and
> the North East. Texas can go fort it and then teach Creationism as a Science
> Subject in Schools .. and if any Right Wing Bible Bashing Christian-Zionist
> isn't happy where they are then they can simply jump in the Humvee and drive
> out of California to the United States of Deep South America ... and
> everyone will be a lot happier, with hardly anything left to endlessly ARGUE
> ABOUT until hell freezes over!
If and only if that immigrant is allowed to stay there. Because the
nations would be absolutely sovereign. They can talk to each other,
just like they can talk to Mexico, Cuba or Norway, or Lakotah, or
Hopi or Mohawk nations (if they emerge as I hope they will and they
should). The MINUTE you are going to combine into some 'common work
group for study' or some 'common meeting place for north america'
you are on the path to the empire again. Because that work-group will
taste the imperial power and want more and more, and evil people may
come to its aide and build it up and up. Very very careful with that
combining thing, protect national sovereignty. Dump the dollar, each
nations its own free currency.
> See? Personally, it is very clear to me that the rest of the world and not
> just myself are very sick to death of hearing about these endless arguments
> that you Americans appear to be completely unable to ever find agreement on
> and put it to rest.
That's the first time I hear that :). You think we here in Holland agree
with each other ? No. That's not bad, people can have different
opinions.
> It would have been a lot easier though and less expensive if the South had
> won the Civil War, or the North had never bothered to fight it, and just
> accept the hugely DIVERGENT values were entirely different- are STILL
> different too, ... as different as the American Colonies values were from
> the powers that be in Monarchist Europe in 1776.
It was a good win against slavery in the end.
> But that's is another story.
>
> Anyway, that's my summary of some very competent and knowledgeable experts
> including PH D's and the like ... of course I totally expect that very very
> little of it will find fertile soil inside the borders of America. And if
> that is the case, then I have no problem with that. It is for Americans to
> decide ... of course. I just doubt that they have much of a chance of making
> the best choices, especially IF the recent History of the last half a
> century, is anything to go on.
Please study my proposal ? It is extremely big and not always easy to
understand maybe.
http://www.socialism.nl/gov.html
http://www.socialism.nl/nonprint <-- Maybe that helps, some ppl find it
easier to watch video/listen then to read.
Don't get distracted by the word "socialism," i'm not an american it
means something else to me then it might to you. Socialism seems to
mean anti-social in America, a nice example of Orwellian word mangling.
It's a free-trade system, even doing away with income tax and other
taxes. Everyone pays the same tax amount / month, but it does have
a maximum on private wealth at 30 x average wealth (which is HIGH).
That to protect the nation from the rich, to protect freedom from the
rich. The rich are always looking to exploit people, ending up destroying
the freedom and happiness of other people.
My proposals are far to big to discuss easily, please study. I'm *NOT*
a PhD either, so not corrupted with nonsense from the bought and sold
universities :).
--
jos boersema
> summary which captures the ideas and work of many many experts in the fields
> of Human Psychology, Political Science, Economics, the Humanities, and
> Constitutional Law. What I have found is many imaginative, creative and
> actually quite rational changes within the institutional structures and
> processes of the American Democratic system that would include such things
> as the following - though not necessarily them specifically .. one needs to
> arrive at a holistic approach where all parts of the *machine* work together
> in harmony to produce the desired outcomes.
How about this: http://www.davidwe.nl ?
That's my work, and it aims specifically to solve all the problems you
mention, really solve them for the long term. That requires a good
understanding of economics, so if you want to understand it you will
need to learn economics too. For example why free trade is good (you
may already know) but why free finance is bad (and that most people do
not know), etc.
My plan could be called a 4 poin plan, by the way. Or a 9 point plan.
Or a 239 point plan (increasing order of precision).
> The facts on the ground clearly suggest that for some time something has
> seriously run off the rails of the Democratic train in America .... but it
> is the *attitudinal changes* required in the current beliefs of what is -
> where the true work remains to be done. The following are but mere ideas
> generators, examples of extracting oneself fro the mental boxes that have
> been fed all the people since they were on their mothers knees. There is a
> severe disconnect between the beliefs and the reality, and this is what is
> the cause of all the Brets and all the tea parties and political "opinion
> makers" .... but if the basics are not seen for what they are .. then all
> this spin and outspokenness and drama is all a waste of time which will
> achieve nothing much better than a civil war, or similar fracturing of the
> American psyche as a distinct group of people supposedly holding the
> relatively the very same CORE VALUES - when today they obviously do not!
>
>====
>
> The 15 Point Plan
>
> There are actually some very simple practical things that occur now, which
> is the very reason why the Political process of Government actually does NOT
> work very well in the USA today. And it has nothing to do with one's
> position of being to the left or the right, an anarchist or a libertarian.
>
> Some example integrated changes and POLITICAL REFORM that need to be taken
> which would actually improve the situation permanently over the long term,
> and achieve outcomes hitherto not ever believed possible, and for the
> Benefit of the entire nation today and throughout this century would include
> the following not new and already proven ideas :
Yeah ? Hmm.... On a 15 point program, you turn the USA around ?
First thing you need is disunite the USA empire, if you don't do that,
don't even bother.
> 1) Elections to be held once every 4 years, and not 2.
Useless. Extremely useless in fact and even counter productive.
> 2) The entire House of Representatives to be up for election each 4 year
> election cycle. This ensures the entire lot of them in the House are forced
> back to the polls and the people to be re-elected or kicked out as
> individuals by their own Local constituents. iow set 4 year terms for each
> member.
Agreed (it's in my system also, though every 5 years, and you can
constantly rotate away a delegate for a new one -- but my model is
very different then what you are used to).
> 3) Each HoR's Electorate to be no larger than 100,000 people of voting
> ge - whether they are registered voters or not. This is the community that
> each Representative is responsible to REPRESENT. HoR's members are supposed
> to Represent ALL the people who live in their electorate, whether they Vote
> or not, registered or not. This IS THEIR KEY responsibility here, and it is
> on their shoulders to make sure they Vote accordingly.
It sounds practically like you are stealing ideas from me, and then
mangling them up a bit. I assume you are unaware of my ideas though.
Anyway: in my model people group not in groups of 100.000, but 50.
The idea is that they can know their representative intimately, and
replace him/her any moment. The problem of an excess of delegates is
handled sufficiently, see the model. Delegates combine in local
governments with 50 or more. They can again group in sections, 50
sections each electing one reprentative from between themselves. Those
twice elected councils govern cities, counties and one just like it
is elected to national Government. This is all worked out in tight
detail (http://www.socialism.nl). This representative model is combined
with a dynamic Referendum law, where not-voted-votes are filled in by
the representatives.
Point: my model is not a vague stab at things, I'm billing it at as
'proposal' but it really is a complete solution that is to work for
sure.
> 3a) A proportional Voting system to be applied, so that no Rep can be
> elected to office wihtout having the first or second preference of at least
> 50% of the actual voters on the day. This means that if the GOP gains 45%
> of the primary vote, but the Democrats 38%, and the Greens 14% together gain
> 52% of the vote, then the Democrat is elected to Office because 52% of the
> voters do NOT want the GOP party to represent them.
Retaining the cesspools that political parties are ?
In my model there aren't political parties, although you can still have
them because voter-groups (50 persons or - a little - more) can elect
anyone. That affords every group of 2 people or even 1 to form a
"political party" and offer to be elected by some voter group. That
affords very very very small political parties to immediately gain
representation. The whole question of political parties becomes casual
and unimportant.
It is, perhaps, useful to notice though, that once delegates are elected
that have combined into clubs, that in my opinion the proceedings of
those clubs belong under the constitutional demand of public government.
Meaning they can not have meetings behind closed doors the public is
unaware off. Otherwise, the freedom to combine is a basic right.
> 4) A Fed. Govt funded but a totally arms-length from Congress fully
> Independent Organization - an Electoral Commission sworn to uphold their
> responsibilities to the People and not the Political parties to be
> responsible for setting these Electorates, and to be funded to be able to
> actually DO the work required.
Useless. First you need to do away with the federation, it can only
fail. Under my model except the size reduction: it will almost certainly
also fail. It can only fail if it is that big, and it is also not
necessary to combine that big. The human brain can abtract a lot and
so on, but at some point the problems are better handled in a more
localized nearby manner. If you are born in Alaska, what business do you
have deciding on how building permits are to be granted in Florida ?
Aren't there people able to think for themselves in Florida ? Aren't
they supposed to have their own sovereign life there as a nation ?
Americans have to let go of their empire and imperial way of thinking.
Swearing accomplishes next to nothing, imho. Provide some means of
legal redress for voters at the courts, that's better. That bites.
> 5) This Electoral Commission is to be SOLELY responsible for the organizing
> of Voter Registrations - and the running of all Elections with NO political
> party involvement bar allowing independent "observers" to view the Election
> processes are free and fair.
In my model there is a national (NOTICE that 'national' means a group of
about 10 to 30 million people!!!) ... there is a national 'electoral
committee' which sets election dates by sovereign decision, it can also
make the Government fall any moment.
I like the Government to hang not just by one thin thread, but by a
series of thin threads connected to each other vertically :). A delegate
can fall from top Government any second of the day, by its voter group,
by its delegates section, by the Electoral Committee ordering new
elections, ... Don't let them get too comfy :). No, let them constantly
have the feeling they're hanging from a long thin thread. All they are
to have going for them is their honorable record and competent work,
that's to be the only chance they have to continue on the job. Even that
doesn't work though, because there is also to be casual rotating in and
out of delegates. Contrary to what Americans might believe, governing
really isn't that difficult at all. Look how destructive governments
often are to a nation, still many nations battle on despite their
governments.
> 6) The Senate is the biggest bottle neck. It to be expanded to at least 6
> Senators elected from each State ie 300 all up. [ yes you need a bigger
> building - it is not 1865 anymore ]
Not the way imho.
IF you want to restore the USA Constitution, if I where you i'd do it
by trying to do mini USA Constitutional models in each state or small
collection of small states. So the USA would become a patch-work of
a good number of sovereign nations. Each with their own currency, their
own everything, completely sovereign. Provided you do something about
your economic model, there is a serious chance it will work, imho.
I estimate that it will probably have a better then 60% success rate
(wild guess of course).
> 7) Senators are to be elected for a fixed 8 year term, and then need to go
> back to the people for re-election.
Far too long. Is there a way to get rid of one any moment ?
> 8) Half the Senate is up for election every 4 years .... similar to how it
> works now, but the details and affects WILL be different than now for other
> reasons.
>
> 9) Senators are to be elected also under a Proportional Voting system
> similar to most other modern Democracies, and not a "first past the post
> system". See the Australian Senate as one example that works better than the
> current US electoral system does.
>
> 10) Therefore 3 Senators to be elected at each 4 year cycle -- and by
> implementing a proportional system it will BREAK the BACK of the two party
> Monopoly in the Senate, and therefore their control over the entire system
> as well. So, in a GOP state, you will end up with 2 GOP guys and either one
> Democrat or Independent also getting a gig at DC.
You want to break the back of the powers that be in your nation:
http://www.socialism.nl That's the way, not merely the government power,
but also the finance and industrial powers. Who do you think owns the
government ? It's not the people. In my model the GOP and Democrats
will probably seaze to exist altogether, drowned into irrelevance.
> 10a) so over time ... one will find that NEITHER the GOP, nor the DEMOCRATS
> will be able to hold a clear majority in the Senate - EVER. Together they
> can come to a bi-partisan agreement and get laws passed in the senate, but
> they will not be able to do it alone. But more than this .. the Democrats
> can go to the Independents, the Greens, and others who will enter the
> senate over time, to seek support for their Legislation without ANY recourse
> to the ideologically opposed GOP, and Vice-Versa.
If you want small parties to have more relevance, you might want to
> 10b) On top of this, rather than having 100% of the senators being
> represented by either the GOP or the Democrats ... the Senate will be More
> Representative of the beliefs, ideals and values of ALL people across the
> nation which are now and have been forever IGNORED by the Two Party system
> .. Why? because they COULD ignore it.
It is true that 'winner takes all' is a very bad variation of the
neo-Roman model, because the big ones soak up all the votes. The
two big parties constantly gain each others protest votes and strategic
votes ("have to vote on one already big, or it won't win.") Then the
two "contending" parties both become corrupt, and they start to play
against the voters.
> 10c) And even more than this ... by changing the system the American people
> will begin to HEAR about a much broader range of ideas and solutions to the
> nations problems without the GOP/Dems controlling the entire PUBLIC DEBATE
> about what is true, what is real, and what people really want -- eg for over
> 30 years history tells me that the clear majority of people of the US have
> been crying out for a reformed health care system that serves the needs of
> The People and which includes a Universal health care cover component. But
> for 30 years the GOP/Dem have been avoiding this issue completely, instead
> preferring to prevaricate and drive the system into a ditch relative to ALL
> other Civilized nations on the planet.
This seems to be an issue of media and finance. The media is set up,
funded, by finance, and lives from perks for news stories given to it
by those in power, and advertizing under the control of the business
tirants.
It is the finance power also which markets the GOP and the Democrats.
So it is ultimately not the GOP or Democrats who set the agenda, it is
finance influencing both the GOP, the Democrats, and the media. In the
end it is all corrupt, one big ball of corruption. Note that finance has
great power over the economy, they can use that power to make the
national Government do what they want. If the national government
misbehaves on the dictates of finance or crosses its designs, then the
finance power for example can start to cause havoc with its money in the
economy. The national government might understand, but the media won't
explain it to the public, who will blame the national government.
Americans, as all people, seem to have forgotten that there is a
tremendous other branch of Government active in all nations: finance.
Business finance (loans and shares/stocks).
> 11) ALL Laws to be passed in BOTH Houses of Congress on a purely simple
> Majority of Votes. No more this archane irrational 60% requirement which is
> anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-good Governance --- and merely another
> deceptive tool for control by special interest groups ie the Political
> parties and their Lobbyist/Funders.
I doubt that would help, likely it wouldn't. It is not illogical to have
a 60% requirenment, because you don't want to risk a law being installed
and repealed on a whim when the majority hangs around 50%.
> 12) The removal of the restriction against individuals from serving more
> than two terms as President - this is a GROSS infringement on the liberty of
> the individual running for office, and the people who WOULD vote for them if
> they were up for office. This current situation was put in place by partisan
> operatives for THEIR OWN benefit it has nothing to do with the fear of a
> president becoming a Dictator at all .... if the system works, if the
> Congress works and fulfills IT's responsibilities [ which it abandoned
> entirely during GW Bush's time], then NO President can ever become a
> Dictator.
> IOW it was a LIE, and they changed the Constitution without any recourse to
> The People.
I'm not a fan of a 2 term law either, because when you finally find a
good guy, you're losing that guy by force of law.
> 13) The removal of the restriction that a president running for office MUST
> be an American Born Citizen -- this too is anti-democratic, and another
> GROSS infringement on the Liberty of individuals. The current condition was
> imposed in 1789 due to the then *state of the world* in particular the fear
> of the Founding fathers that their nation could be influenced by powerfully
> rich Monarchists and others from Europe which may undermine their *fledgling
> Democracy*. It is NO longer the case, and therefore THIS restriction should
> be removed outright. A nation needs it's BEST person for the position .. to
> continue in the current course places the USA back into the era of the Birth
> Right of Kings .. but in reverse. It is just as UNJUST, insidious and
> irrationally based.
I don't think it is that relevant either way.
> 14) The current GOP/DEM system means that they have total control over the
I merged the USA bill of Rights into my Constitution proposal:
http://www.jhwh.be/post/002/merged/usa-BillOfRights-merged-constitution-.txt
Here the original:
http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/constitution-short.html
Hopefully the USA people would like to vote, or ... vote with their
feet: http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/sheet3.txt in peaceful tea / coffee
drinking 'revolution' (resurection of the People.)
>=========
>
> SUMMARY Thoughts ...
>
> Well that pretty much covers the basics, the simple bits to be adjusted and
> Reformed .... fix all the above, and Health Care will almost FIX ITSELF ..
No. Your changes will practically change nothing, I don' think it would
even have a marginal impact. The only thing that it would accomplish is
strike fear in the hearts of the criminal elites, because if you can get
that passed, who knows what you'll get passed next. Power is apparently
shifting back to the public, and people are thinking about things.
*That* may change everything, but your system-changes, say if they could
be done right now on the flick of a wrist without any effort, i think
they would make zero impact.
Still ... the more people are thinking about the fundamentals of the
system, that's the way forward. Only question is: what should it be
right now, what's the scheme most likely to yield results.
Your Referendum proposal is a good one though, that may help some.
Provided you can ensure no electronic voting. Also the yes/no vote
i find that far too limited. It is not hard to manipulate it then.
But you could boot more and better changes in using that. So that
is great. My political party scheme also starts with making a Referendum
law (3.1.b) in the constitution.
> and you will NEVER ever get another Idiot like GW Bush as President, nor
> uneducated irrational incompetents like Sarah Palin being chosen to run for
> Vice-president.
No ? You surely will, it's just the same. Same parties, same economic
issues, same problems. Same mass-voting ...
> Therefore it will be a guaranteed Win_Win for everyone except the current
> Powers that Be ... who have given you the Global Financial Crisis, 60% of GM
> owned by the Government, an unsustainable Foreign Debt knocking on the door
> of Default and National bankruptcy, 15% plus unemployment, the largest group
> and the most extensive fraudulent Businessmen in the world bar none, a
> minimum 15% of Home Mortgages in default heading towards 30% if things don't
> turn around, as well as all the wasted human lives and resources and the
> non-stop destruction of other nations from being engaged in clearly
> unnecessary and endless Wars since WWII was won --- whilst they suck all
> your tax dollars, be you rich poor or middle class, to waste it for no real
> or sustainable benefit whatsoever.
>
> There is another way however, but it would still require the implementation
> of the points mentioned above already as well ...
>
> This other alternative is, of course, to take note of the realities of the
> former USSR and realize that America has become un-Governable as it is due
> to it's sheer size and population ..
Correct.
> which is complicated from the non-stop
> competing interests and values of Individuals across the land. The original
> Bond has been broken, but no on e wants to face this reality, this truth so
> to speak.
>
> Some common sense would show that the break-up of America into 3 or 4 new
> separate independent Sovereign Nations is a distinct positive alternative
> worth considering by mature down-to-earth competent heads in depth.
! Exactly!
> Several
> Independent nation sates, operating within a shared/agreed Economic Zone -
> Common market type arrangement such that it more closely reflected the
> realities on the ground of the different [ usually un-compromising ] ethical
> and moral Values of each region of the USA.
>
> Such as the North East, the West Coast, the Deep South, and Central North
> regions being able to set their own "moral and economic" agendas and
> Lifestyles. may the best alternative then reign supreme, or may they all
> find that life is better, and all Win from such a drastic Reform.
Something like that. I think best nation size is between 10 to 30
million. 30 million is the current world average (ignoring the EU).
I find that quite large to be honest (but that may be due because I'm
Dutch, which is 17 million roughly).
Also give the North American indians all the land they want, and move
out of their way. You can then have new brother nations, and they can
help you maybe, show you. That's the greatest asset you have on your
whole continent.
> It's a simple as re-visiting such global decisions like abortion, and
> deciding again what the people wish. No Abortion in the South or Central ...
> but Abortion covered by a Universal Public heath care system in the West and
> the North East. Texas can go fort it and then teach Creationism as a Science
> Subject in Schools .. and if any Right Wing Bible Bashing Christian-Zionist
> isn't happy where they are then they can simply jump in the Humvee and drive
> out of California to the United States of Deep South America ... and
> everyone will be a lot happier, with hardly anything left to endlessly ARGUE
> ABOUT until hell freezes over!
If and only if that immigrant is allowed to stay there. Because the
nations would be absolutely sovereign. They can talk to each other,
just like they can talk to Mexico, Cuba or Norway, or Lakotah, or
Hopi or Mohawk nations (if they emerge as I hope they will and they
should). The MINUTE you are going to combine into some 'common work
group for study' or some 'common meeting place for north america'
you are on the path to the empire again. Because that work-group will
taste the imperial power and want more and more, and evil people may
come to its aide and build it up and up. Very very careful with that
combining thing, protect national sovereignty. Dump the dollar, each
nations its own free currency.
> See? Personally, it is very clear to me that the rest of the world and not
> just myself are very sick to death of hearing about these endless arguments
> that you Americans appear to be completely unable to ever find agreement on
> and put it to rest.
That's the first time I hear that :). You think we here in Holland agree
with each other ? No. That's not bad, people can have different
opinions.
> It would have been a lot easier though and less expensive if the South had
> won the Civil War, or the North had never bothered to fight it, and just
> accept the hugely DIVERGENT values were entirely different- are STILL
> different too, ... as different as the American Colonies values were from
> the powers that be in Monarchist Europe in 1776.
It was a good win against slavery in the end.
> But that's is another story.
>
> Anyway, that's my summary of some very competent and knowledgeable experts
> including PH D's and the like ... of course I totally expect that very very
> little of it will find fertile soil inside the borders of America. And if
> that is the case, then I have no problem with that. It is for Americans to
> decide ... of course. I just doubt that they have much of a chance of making
> the best choices, especially IF the recent History of the last half a
> century, is anything to go on.
Please study my proposal ? It is extremely big and not always easy to
Sean
"Mason C" <maso...@XXXfrontal-lobe.info> wrote in message
> Someone made a good suggestion: Corporations are not people and have
> no rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Good idea.
Much more thna a good idea mate, it is actually TRUE as well.
It's just that someone one day spun it that they DID have rights, and
justified it using an argument based upon Fallacies -- but no one noticed,
or rather, no one in Power who cared, noticed. :-)
Patriot Games
From: "Sean" <he...@home.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.108.73
211.30.108.73 = Sydney, Australia.
America's Political system is none of your business, Aussie Faggot.
robert bowman
> The almost fanatical and mythical belief in the American version of the
> two-party system is at the core of this conscious deceit upon the American
> people, and the rest of the world as well.There are many ways to fix it,
> but the first key ingredient is of course a healthy dose of Integrity
> mixed with Reason. You remember, the Enlightenment period that produced
> the likes of Jefferson, Washington, Madison and all the others of that
> age?
I was skimming Russel Kirk's biography of John Randolph yesterday. Judging
from some of Randolph's speeches, that age was little better than the
present.
Michael Gordge
> For example why free trade is good (you
> may already know)
He's as left wing as you are Nazi, therefore he has no idea what free
trade means and neither do you.
MG
Sean
"Patriot Games" <Pat...@America.Com> wrote in message
news:antig59e9fcv17e6o...@4ax.com...
Then please feel free to GFY needle dick
martin
> Posted from alt.philosophy
Your ideas about terms are interesting. Constitutional amendents -
would you really want a swarm of third-worlders, etc, voting on
anything much less a Constitutional amendment?
I
Sean
"robert bowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:7mtem4F...@mid.individual.net...
Interesting point .... maybe he has reincarnated as Glenn Beck or Anne
Coulter? Anything is possible. :)
Sean
"martin" <martin.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a93bb38-c335-45db...@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
==============
They are not my ideas necessarily, I simply expressed them in my own words.
Such things have been around for decades regarding the USA. It's nothing
new.
as to 3rd worlders -- You have no idea why the rest of the world considers
the average American ignorant and arrogant and obnoxious and racist bigots
and full of their own self-importance now do you?
Shrikeback
Actually, corporations are groups of people, just as are
political parties. Nevertheless, it has indeed been decided
that corporations don't have full First Amendment rights,
that was part of the nerfing of the McCain-Feingold Fascist
Campaign Speech Reform Act by the Supreme Court: to
allow the restrictions of Free Speech against corporations,
which is what led to the rise of the Swiftboat-style organizations,
which are not corporations, and therefore allow groups of
individuals access to free speech. The McCain-Feingold
Fascist Speech Repression Act was nerfed so it only
applied to corporations (and, even then, not media corporations),
because there had to be a loophole, or we may as well all
book the next flight to Belarus.
Shrikeback
> I propose a one-line solution:
>
> Amendment to the Bill of Rights:
>
> "Money is not speech and is not protected by the free-speech amendment."
Actually, here's a better one:
"Congress shall make no law. Period."
Shrikeback
> Posted from alt.philosophy
> ============
> The Core Issues behind America's modern dysfunctional Political System
>
> and
>
> A simple 15 Point Plan for Reform and Repairing the system back to working
> order.
Funny how 15 Points winds up with a bunch of sub-points, so
it may as well be 1000 Points of Light.
> 2009-11-22
>
> =====
>
> Introduction
>
> Bret, and many others on these newsgroups are *issues focused* activists,
> which is fine.
You have no idea what's going on. Bret doesn't give a rat's
ass about "issues." All he cares about is his Party. And
he hates what he calls small Parties. You should have
read his denunciations of the "Greenola" Party. I actually
stole that, "Greenola," parody from him. It's the best one
he's come up with, really.
> Today's flavor is heath care for Bret, and why he sees that the GOP is the
> primary cause of the problem today.
Again, he doesn't care about "health care" either. After all, if we
look
at the Health Care Deform bill, it's primarily about cutting Medicare,
and raising taxes. Implicit in it is an assumption that Medicare is
not sustainable.
> The underlying core issue is really the TWO *corrupt political parties* in
> America, both of them and their supporters across the board.
Why would proliferating the number of parties, so there are ten
thousand different bat shit perspectives represented by corrupt
apparatchiks help? You small party guys.
<Snippage for the sake of the reader.>
> 10c) And even more than this ... by changing the system the American people
> will begin to HEAR about a much broader range of ideas and solutions to the
> nations problems without the GOP/Dems controlling the entire PUBLIC DEBATE
> about what is true, what is real, and what people really want --
Guess what? The American People have given unto us all the
Internets, on which a myriad views can be expressed and consumed
simultaneously?
Want to get the Anarchist perspective? Want the Commie persepctive?
There's the peoplescube.com. Want the antisemitic perspective?
There's Sean. Yammering about the mainstream media not giving
enough validity to every batshit perspective imaginable is about as
relevant to the twenty-first century as Pamela Anderson's saggy bags
of silicone are appealing.
> eg for over
> 30 years history tells me that the clear majority of people of the US have
> been crying out for a reformed health care system that serves the needs of
> The People and which includes a Universal health care cover component.
Kreskin here things he's reading the Zeitgeist's mind, when
he watches a YouTube vid of some progressive giving a speech
in Berkeley.
> But
> for 30 years the GOP/Dem have been avoiding this issue completely, instead
> preferring to prevaricate and ...
No, for 15 years, the issue was buried because HillaryCare (and
the obviously inevitable Mother of All Layoffs which would result)
was frightening enough to scare the populace away from the idea
for a long time to come. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are just now
innoculating Americans again against trusting political machiners
to do any reform at all.
"One layoff is a tragedy. A million is just a statistic."
-Joe Biden
"If the Constitution causes you problems, no Constitution,
no problem!"
-Sean
Sean
so thanks for nothing ... why you are responding to my post as if mine was a
PR stunt for the Democrats, or for Bret, is beyond me, [ actually it isn't
I;m lying these are just your own personal issues bubbling up to the
surface ] not because I am slow but because it utterly misses the point of
my specific criticisms AGAINST the Democratic Party, and that things like
Clinton/Hilary tried on with health care in 1993 was a complete joke.
That you miss this despite how overt it actually was .. says a lot about
yourself and your own inability to comprehend the bleeding obvious such as
the MAJORITY of Amercians have been calling for health care reform for 30+
years so they could access a decent cost-effective system that was equitable
.... just like the MAJORITY of Aussies and the UK, and Spain and every other
western nation bar the USA were dead set against invading Iraq in 2003 but
they did it anyway.
But never let the truth get in the way of a good beat up right? :)
NICE QUOTE this one ...
Sean
>
> NICE QUOTE this one ...
> "If the Constitution causes you problems, no Constitution,
> no problem!"
> -Sean
>
Do you actually understand what that quote means yet, within the context
that it was given?
I expect not, but anytime you're up to articulating what you believe it
means -- then go for it!
John Stafford
<52b479e2-6ba5-420c...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Shrikeback <shrik...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You have no idea what's going on. Bret doesn't give a rat's
> ass about "issues."
In fact, Bret only tosses out stinky bait as he trolls for bottom
dwellers. Don't go there. Ignore him.
jos boersema
All the political/economic systems are all our business, we all
need to take an interest in all nations, it is in our mutual interest.
Particularly America is everyone's business now, because America is
a criminal state which commits international robbery and violent
attacks on other nations, and spreads is detrimental cultural influence
over the whole world for the sake of its financial/economic warfare
and geostrategic games. They attack us, therefore if we can alter their
state/economic system we can perhaps stop them from attacking us by
their people locking up the guilty and mapping out a new future.
There is another way forward: having the USA deteriorate so badly,
that it will need to devote all military resources to opresse its
own people thereby releasing the rest of the world from its evil
grip. Military dictatorship, Pinochet style, shock and awe, Iraq
style, for which they are all morally guilty (at least in part), so
they still need to experience what a 'Pinochet state' is to learn not
to do that again, not again to stand by when they meddle in other
nations that way. The former is of course the better way out, which is
what we're working on isn't it. Correct the problem through a better
state/economic model, thus having the troops be recalled globally
and the torture centers and schools in the USA closed.
Mister Patriot thinks he is untouchable ? But they forgot they can
be conquered very easily by their own Government. Then look them
squirm and regret they didn't bother about their Constitution.
Bret Cahill
too complicated. In U. S. national politics you compete against three
word mono syllable slogans:
"War on drugs"
"Tough on crime"
"Make my day"
"Stay the course"
Occasionaly you get 4 or 5 syllables but it's always just 3 words:
"No new taxes"
"War on terror"
"Liberal on crime"
Obama needs to take one theme that exposes the GOP as frauds and beat
the living crap out of them with it.
Bret Cahill
Shrikeback
> I was wondering ..
>
>
>
> > NICE QUOTE this one ...
> > "If the Constitution causes you problems, no Constitution,
> > no problem!"
> > -Sean
>
> Do you actually understand what that quote means yet, within the context
> that it was given?
Heh. The context is now. It's parody, not an actual
quote.
> I expect not, but anytime you're up to articulating what you believe it
> means -- then go for it!
Well, it's based on a quote attributed to Stalin in a work of
fiction:
"If a person causes you a problem, no person, no problem!"
"Billions in deficits are a tragedy, a trillion dollar
deficit is just a statistic."
-Joe Biden
Bret Cahill
> > ============
> > The Core Issues behind America's modern dysfunctional Political System
>
> > and
>
> > A simple 15 Point Plan for Reform and Repairing the system back to working
> > order.
>
> Funny how 15 Points winds up with a bunch of sub-points, so
> it may as well be 1000 Points of Light.
>
> > 2009-11-22
>
> > =====
>
> > Introduction
>
> > Bret, and many others on these newsgroups are *issues focused* activists,
> > which is fine.
>
> You have no idea what's going on. Bret doesn't give a rat's
> ass about "issues."
Sure I do:
> All he cares about is his Party.
Have any rightards ripped Dumbya as much as I have ripped Al "the
Priss" Gore or John "I'm a 'Nam Vet! Boom! I'm In the White House!"
Kerry?
I got Robert "Working People Don't Have Free Speech" Reich kicked out
of Harvard.
They'll kick him out of Berkeley when they find out why he was kicked
out of Harvard..
To be sure I support the Democratic Party generally but that is
because the Dems create high tax economic booms which get us out of
GOP tax cut recessions.
As Truman said, "if you want to live like a Republican then vote for a
Democrat."
. . .
> Again, he doesn't care about "health care" either.
Even Lance Armstrong could have a heart condition.
Just because I'm the greatest political scientist since Montesquieu
doesn't mean I don't occasionally need health care.
Bret Cahill
Patriot Games
>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.philosophy.]
>On 2009-11-22, Sean <he...@home.net> wrote:
>> "Patriot Games" <Pat...@America.Com> wrote in message
>> news:antig59e9fcv17e6o...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:26:50 +1100, "Sean" <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>> From: "Sean" <he...@home.net>
>>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.108.73
>>> 211.30.108.73 = Sydney, Australia.
>>> America's Political system is none of your business, Aussie Faggot.
From: jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.163.197.44
83.163.197.44 = Amsterdam, Netherlands.
>Particularly America is everyone's business now
America is none of your business, Faggot.
>Mister Patriot thinks he is untouchable?
Yes, I am.
>But they forgot they can
>be conquered very easily by their own Government.
UNLIKE YOU we are a free people.
jos boersema
> On 23 Nov 2009 13:28:11 GMT, jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.philosophy.]
>>On 2009-11-22, Sean <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>> "Patriot Games" <Pat...@America.Com> wrote in message
>>> news:antig59e9fcv17e6o...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:26:50 +1100, "Sean" <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>>> From: "Sean" <he...@home.net>
>>>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.108.73
>>>> 211.30.108.73 = Sydney, Australia.
>>>> America's Political system is none of your business, Aussie Faggot.
>>All the political/economic systems are all our business
>
> From: jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.163.197.44
> 83.163.197.44 = Amsterdam, Netherlands.
>
>>Particularly America is everyone's business now
>
> America is none of your business, Faggot.
I make it my business. What is my business is none of your business, tho.
Are you trying to deny me my freedom of thought & speech ?
>>Mister Patriot thinks he is untouchable?
>
> Yes, I am.
Mister untouchable ... I would laugh if I wasn't so worried for you.
>>But they forgot they can
>>be conquered very easily by their own Government.
>
> UNLIKE YOU we are a free people.
Unlike YOU, we don't mistake the slogan 'freedom' with the real article.
Unlike YOU, we know 'freedom' isn't enough to remain free.
You need a people that care for each other, brothers and sisters.
Not bowing down for tirants, whether in Government, religion, or
.... IN BUSINESS, you traitorous whores to power. Why do you bowe
down for that industrial scum ? Those lords of business and finance
you worship ? Why do you grovel at their feet ? Why is your strike
rate so low ? Why are all your unions even more corrupt then anywhere
else ?
You thought a slogan made you free, but now that you may need to put
work to your ideals, all that comes out are more slogans. You
American, you need to rise for revolution and you know it.
I see two possible ways to do revolution:
- war
- peace
That is: combine fighting units and organize a civil war, or get people
to support a state such as mine, and rise up in peaceful combination
erecting the new state with cup of tea and coffee in hand, making a
joke, making friends with neigbors, troops, and policemen alike.
Oh my, why are you so blind ? Don't you see Obama is sending all those
troops to Afghanistan to train for opression at home ? Urban warfare ?
Occupation troops ? Heavy CIA involvements against 'insurgants' ? Sounds
like a massive training op, that whole post 9/11 war scenario. Corrupt
the troops, break down their morality, where possible make them hate
the USA, turn down veterans for help, turn the veterans into anger
against the USA public. Then maybe they make a chance of turning the
USA army against its own people. Will never happen ?! Didn't your CIA
manage to turn the Chillean army against its own people ?
I hope it will never happen, but belief either way is no excuse not to
start doing something about the whole USA 'issue.' Your president is
clearly violating the Constitution, why is he not in jail (for "signing
statements") ?
If you don't defend your freedom, you don't have it. If you can't
enforce your Constitution, you have none. What did your founding fathers
themselves say. You don't act, you know you should. You don't know how.
And i'm not blaming you because it's not the old days anymore, where
you'd combine some guns and stormed a bunch of scum in city hall and
had a grandiose shoot out. Doesn't work like that with hundreds of
millions of people. So, do my system instead ? Work to spread its
mechanics ?
Ready build the USA Bill of Rights into my system, at presedence:
http://www.socialism.nl/post/002/merged/usa-BillOfRights-merged-constitution-.txt
You want to hang on to your Bill of Rights ? May as well turn over
into my proposals. What change do you have with Washington ?
With Groningen, you can have it all. Democracy, freedom, democracy,
republic, peace, have it all.
I thought Americans like things big. Then think big.
--
http://www.socialism.nl
Michael Gordge
> I thought Americans like things big. Then think big.
> --http://www.socialism.....................
Hey dopey, socialist indoctrination is not called thinking.
MG
Michael Gordge
> we all
> need to take an interest in all nations,
Ewe fucking nauseating arrogant ignorant commie cockhead, on here ewe
speak for you and no-one else but you, ewe fucking got that?
MG
Bret Cahill
>
> > > NICE QUOTE this one ...
> > > "If the Constitution causes you problems, no Constitution,
> > > no problem!"
> > > -Sean
>
> > Do you actually understand what that quote means yet, within the context
> > that it was given?
>
> Heh.
Heh heh
Heh heh heh.
> The context is now.
The time is here.
> It's parody,
Will this work in an excitin' Hollywood action movie?
Bret Cahill
Sean
"Bret Cahill" <BretC...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:769d6991-47ee-43f7...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
Heh heh
Heh heh heh.
> The context is now.
The time is here.
> It's parody,
Bret Cahill
================================
LMAO -- as per usual
Thx :-)
Bret Cahill
>
> > > I was wondering ..
>
> > > > NICE QUOTE this one ...
> > > > "If the Constitution causes you problems, no Constitution,
> > > > no problem!"
> > > > -Sean
>
> > > Do you actually understand what that quote means yet, within the context
> > > that it was given?
>
> > Heh.
>
> Heh heh
>
> Heh heh heh.
>
> > The context is now.
>
> The time is here.
>
> > It's parody,
>
> Will this work in an excitin' Hollywood action movie?
>
> Bret Cahill
>
> ================================
>
> LMAO -- as per usual
To fully understand American rightardism you need to visit a Southern
state or two for a couple of weeks and sign up for a temp. job.
I thought I understood why Perot was so upset with free speech and, to
be sure, I was basically correct.
But it wasn't until I got to Texas that I _really_ understood.
Maybe you'll need a month or so.
Bret Cahill
Sean
Bret Cahill
=======================
HA .. you're way behind the Times bret .. worked 6 months in FLORIDA at the
same time that Clinton was going thru the Impeachment Trial ....... I got to
meet people from sharing Limosines with Millionaires to chatting with
destitute homeless Blacks and hispanics ... I got the good oil ... I saw it
all mate ... plus had a great run by car up I95 all the way To DC and back
to SOUTH Florida .. do you know SOUTH Florida, it si like no where else in
the USA - it operates it own specially designed version of the CABAL ....
and i know exactly why Bush won that State in 2000 --- have not seen
anything like since I was living in Sodum and Gormorrah long long ago. :)
Yeah I'm an aussie, but I am no idiot and have been around, so to speak
:-))
When I speak, and don't quote others, I am speaking from direct personal
experience, which is WHY I totally get where you are coming from ... been
there, done that , bought the T-Shirt ..
Sean
counts ] was a Retired Hospital Administrator from New York City.
Another a semi-retired NASDAQ Day Trader .... he was buying Yahoo whn it was
about $600 [?] a share ... yeah he lost his shirt, home and probably his
lovely young ex-model wife as well
Another operated a Financial Loan business from his home office - he was 89
and still he didn't have enough Money or anything better to do with his Life
than WORK ...
I wa doing some business business round Boca Raton, palm beach, miami and
the keys ... met some pretty interesting characters, that now remind me of
being in a Tarantino movie. LOL
ok .. enough of me ... one day there will be a book, but the names and
places and times will be changed to protect the innocent -- ie ME !!!!
cu round mate! Gakd I am here and NOT there I can tell you ...
"Sean" <he...@home.net> wrote in message
news:4b0b522f$0$1784$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Bret Cahill
South Florida isn't really the South.
> do you know SOUTH Florida, it si like no where else in
> the USA - it operates it own specially designed version of the CABAL ....
> and i know exactly why Bush won that State in 2000 --- have not seen
> anything like since I was living in Sodum and Gormorrah long long ago. :)
>
> Yeah I'm an aussie, but I am no idiot and have been around, so to speak
> :-))
>
> When I speak, and don't quote others, I am speaking from direct personal
> experience, which is WHY I totally get where you are coming from ... been
> there, done that , bought the T-Shirt ..
The scams in S. Florida may have drowned out the Repugliar scam.
That wouldn't happen in Texas.
Bret Cahill
Michael Gordge
> I.... I.... I....... i........ I........... I'm....... I...... I......... I....... I.............
Ewe fucking leftist cockhead, no-one gives a flying fuck about you.
MG
jos boersema
> On Nov 24, 5:47�am, jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> I thought Americans like things big. Then think big.
>
> Hey dopey, socialist indoctrination is not called thinking.
A slogan; you thought that up all by yourselve ?
Patriot Games
>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.philosophy.]
>On 2009-11-23, Patriot Games <Pat...@America.Com> wrote:
>> On 23 Nov 2009 13:28:11 GMT, jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>["Followup-To:" header set to alt.philosophy.]
>>>On 2009-11-22, Sean <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>>> "Patriot Games" <Pat...@America.Com> wrote in message
>>>> news:antig59e9fcv17e6o...@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:26:50 +1100, "Sean" <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>>>> From: "Sean" <he...@home.net>
>>>>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.108.73
>>>>> 211.30.108.73 = Sydney, Australia.
>>>>> America's Political system is none of your business, Aussie Faggot.
>>>All the political/economic systems are all our business
>> From: jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl>
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.163.197.44
>> 83.163.197.44 = Amsterdam, Netherlands.
>>>Particularly America is everyone's business now
>> America is none of your business, Faggot.
>I make it my business.
Too late, Faggot, YOU have been exposed...
>Are you trying to deny me my freedom of thought & speech?
You have NO SUCH freedoms in America.
>>>But they forgot they can
>>>be conquered very easily by their own Government.
>> UNLIKE YOU we are a free people.
>Unlike YOU, we don't mistake the slogan 'freedom' with the real article.
>Unlike YOU, we know 'freedom' isn't enough to remain free.
Yes, we know all about how you dropped your pants and spread your
asshole for the Nazis...
"At the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939, the Netherlands
declared itself neutral..."
"On May 14 the Germans... demanded the surrender of the city of
Rotterdam, threatening to bomb the city. A surrender was agreed upon
with Dutch and German forces..."
"...due to miscommunication between German negotiators on the ground
and the Luftwaffe units assigned to carry out the bombings, the city
was bombed by error.
"After this bombardment, the German military command threatened to
bomb the city of Utrecht as well if the Netherlands did not surrender.
The Dutch army laid down arms at 1900 hrs on 14 May, and formally
capitulated on May 15, with the exception of the forces in Zeeland.
They resisted for a few more days, until the bombardment of Middelburg
on May 17, which forced the Zeeland forces to surrender as well."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Netherlands_(1939-1945)#German_invasion
>You need a people that care for each other, brothers and sisters.
We do fine on our own.
>Not bowing down for tirants, whether in Government, religion, or
>.... IN BUSINESS, you traitorous whores to power.
See above. Your ENTIRE NATION bowed to the Nazis.
>I see two possible ways to do revolution:
YOU ARE WORLD SURRENDER PUSSIES.
N O T H I N G you say has ANY meaning.
You grandparents and parents STILL WEAR NAZI COCK in their ASS!