100 trillion Bactarias living on our body. Just like we live on Earth.
Sanny
Earth.
So are we a Planet Just like Earth with Trillions of Bactarias living
on us? Are these Bactarias controlling out Brains? Are we a Spacship
controlled by Bactarias?
---- copy paste ------
As soon as we are born, bacteria move in. They stake claims in our
digestive and respiratory tracts, our teeth, our skin. They establish
increasingly complex communities, like a forest that gradually takes
over a clearing. By the time we’re a few years old, these communities
have matured, and we carry them with us, more or less, for our entire
lives. Our bodies harbor 100 trillion bacterial cells, outnumbering
our human cells 10 to one. It’s easy to ignore this astonishing fact.
Bacteria are tiny in comparison to human cells; they contribute just a
few pounds to our weight and remain invisible to us.
It’s also been easy for science to overlook their role in our bodies
and our health. Researchers have largely concerned themselves with
bacteria’s negative role as pathogens: The devastating effects of a
handful of infectious organisms have always seemed more urgent than
what has been considered a benign and relatively unimportant
relationship with “good” bacteria. In the intestine, the bacterial hub
of the body that teems with trillions of microbes, they have
traditionally been called “commensal” organisms — literally, eating at
the same table. The moniker suggests that while we’ve known for
decades that gut bacteria help digestion and prevent infections, they
are little more than ever-present dinner guests.
But there’s a growing consensus among scientists that the relationship
between us and our microbes is much more of a two-way street. With new
technologies that allow scientists to better identify and study the
organisms that live in and on us, we’ve become aware that bacteria,
though tiny, are powerful chemical factories that fundamentally affect
how the human body functions. They are not simply random squatters,
but organized communities that evolve with us and are passed down from
generation to generation. Through research that has blurred the
boundary between medical and environmental microbiology, we’re
beginning to understand that because the human body constitutes their
environment, these microbial communities have been forced to adapt to
changes in our diets, health, and lifestyle choices. Yet they, in
turn, are also part of our environments, and our bodies have adapted
to them. Our dinner guests, it seems, have shaped the very path of
human evolution.
In October, researchers in several countries launched the
International Human Microbiome Consortium, an effort to characterize
the role of microbes in the human body. Just over a year ago, the
National Institutes of Health also launched its own Human Microbiome
Project. These new efforts represent a formal recognition of
bacteria’s far-reaching influence, including their contributions to
human health and certain illnesses. “This could be the basis of a
whole new way of looking at disease,” said microbiologist Margaret
McFall-Ngai at the 108th General Meeting of the American Society for
Microbiology in Boston last June. But the emerging science of human-
microbe symbiosis has an even greater implication. “Human beings are
not really individuals; they’re communities of organisms,” says McFall-
Ngai. It’s not just that our bodies serve as a habitat for other
organisms; it’s also that we function with them as a collective. As
the profound interrelationship between humans and microbes becomes
more apparent, the distinction between host and hosted has become both
less clear and less important — together we operate as a constantly
evolving man-microbe kibbutz. Which raises a startling implication: If
being Homo sapiens through and through implied a certain authority
over our corporeal selves, we are now forced to relinquish some of
that control to our inner-dwelling microbes. Ironically, the human
ingenuity that drives us to understand more about ourselves is
revealing that we’re much less “human” than we once thought.
To find a biological answer to the question “Who are we?” we might
look to the human genome. Certainly, when the Human Genome Project
first produced a draft of the 3 billion-base-pair sequence, it was
touted as a blueprint for human life. Less than a decade later,
however, most experts recognize that our genomes capture only a part
of who we are. Researchers have become aware, for example, of the
influence of epigenetic phenomena — imprinting, maternal effects, and
gene silencing, among others — in determining how genetic material is
ultimately expressed. Now comes the notion that the genomes of
microbes within us must also be considered. Our bodies are, after all,
composites of human and bacterial cells, with microbes together
contributing at least 1,000 times more genes to the whole. As we
discover more and more roles that microbes play, it has become
impossible to ignore the contribution of bacteria to the pool of genes
we define as ourselves. Indeed, several scientists have begun to refer
to the human body as a “superorganism” whose complexity extends far
beyond what is encoded in a single genome.
The physiology of a superorganism would likely look very different
from traditional human physiology. There has been a great deal of
research into the dynamics of communities among plants, insect
colonies, and even in human society. What new insights could we gain
by applying some of that knowledge to the workings of communities in
our own bodies? Certain body functions could be the result of
negotiations between several partners, and diseases the result of
small changes in group dynamics — or of a breakdown in communication
between symbiotic partners.
Recently, for instance, evidence has surfaced that obesity may well
include a microbial component. In ongoing work that is part of the
Human Microbiome Project, researchers in Jeffrey Gordon’s lab at the
Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis showed that lean
and obese mice have different proportions of microbes in their
digestive systems. Bacteria in the plumper rodents, it seemed, were
better able to extract energy from food, because when these bacteria
were transferred into lean mice, the mice gained weight. The same is
apparently true for humans: In December Gordon’s team published
findings that lean and obese twins — whether identical or fraternal —
harbor strikingly different bacterial communities. And these bacteria,
they discovered, are not just helping to process food directly; they
actually influence whether that energy is ultimately stored as fat in
the body.
Even confined in their designated body parts, microbes exert their
effects by churning out chemical signals for our cells to receive.
Jeremy Nicholson, a chemist at Imperial College of London, has become
a champion of the idea that the extent of this microbial signaling
goes vastly underappreciated. Nicholson had been looking at the
metabolites in human blood and urine with the hope of developing
personalized drugs when he found that our bodily fluids are filled
with metabolites produced by our intestinal bacteria. He now believes
that the influence of gut microbes ranges from the ways in which we
metabolize drugs and food to the subtle workings of our brain
chemistry.
Scientists originally expected that the communication between animals
and their symbiotic bacteria would form its own molecular language.
But McFall-Ngai, an expert on animal-microbe symbiosis, says that she
and other scientists have instead found beneficial relationships
involving some of the same chemical messages that had been discovered
previously in pathogens. Many bacterial products that had been termed
“virulence factors” or “toxins” turn out to not be inherently
offensive signals; they are just part of the conversation between
microbe and host. The difference between our interaction with harmful
and helpful bacteria, she says, is not so much like separate languages
as it is a change in tone: “It’s the difference between an argument
and a civil conversation.” We are in constant communication with our
microbes, and the messages are broadcast throughout the human body.
The first study of a microbial community living on the human body was
made back in 1683, when Antony van Leeuwenhoek wrote a letter to the
Royal Society including his observations through the microscope of his
own dental plaque, in which he described seeing “many very little
living animalcules, very prettily a-moving.” But despite this very
early interest in the microbe communities on the body, over the next
three centuries, microbiologists focused mainly on “isolating”
bacteria: removing them from their natural contexts and growing them
in culture dishes in the lab. This approach was the only way to
observe and understand bacterial cells in great detail. But it also
created huge gaps in knowledge about bacterial life. It focused on the
fraction of microorganisms that can be grown in culture, and it
overlooked the highly complex and diverse ways in which they actually
live together — an approach akin to studying humans by confining them
in prison cells while ignoring the cities and communities that make up
their natural habitat.
This narrow view of microorganisms began to change when new genetic
sequencing technologies — which fished the genes directly out of water
or soil samples — made it possible to collect information about
microorganisms without having to isolate them. These studies revealed
an incredible amount of genetic abundance and diversity; the microbial
world was a far bigger and denser landscape than anyone had previously
known. A further leap in technology has been the ability to sequence
large numbers of genes rapidly. Even without “seeing” the organisms
themselves, scientists can now sequence tens or hundreds of thousands
of genetic fragments from an environmental sample. The resulting
science of metagenomics eschews traditional ideas about studying the
natural history of a particular organism in favor of a global view of
the genes that exist in a community.
Using these new metagenomic methods, environmental microbiologists
have delved into uncharted territories — acidic lakes, deep-ocean
hydrothermal vents, and frozen tundra, to name but a few — to see what
life might exist there. Gradually, some have applied the new tools to
explore the “environments” of humans and other animals, with recent
surveys, for instance, of the bacterial communities in various
microclimates of the human body, from rear molars to intestines to
nasal passages. And with these studies and the launch of the Human
Microbiome Project, the fields of medical and environmental
microbiology have begun to merge. The resulting hybrid discipline
embraces the complexity of a larger system; it’s integrative rather
than reductive, and it supports the gathering view that our bodies,
and the bodies of other animals, are ecosystems, and that health and
disease may depend on complex changes in the ecology of host and
microbes.
In 2007, Cornell University microbiologist Ruth Ley coauthored a paper
arguing that human microbiome studies could bridge the divide between
biomedical and environmental microbiology. Like Jeffrey Gordon, her
coauthor and mentor, Ley studies bacteria in the human gut. But while
Gordon, Ley, and their fellow microbial sleuths might have hoped for a
core set of organisms that would define the human microbiome, so far
the reality is proving far more complicated. While only a few major
groups of the world’s bacteria live in the human body, within these
groups are countless bacterial species that vary greatly from person
to person. “The more people look at it, it seems like an endlessly
diverse system,” says Ley. The landscape of the body presents a wide
range of habitats. In the nutrient-rich land of the intestines,
communities appear to be fairly stable over time, while early
indications show the harsher environment of the skin attracting
itinerant communities that come and go. Communities can be as
localized as the neighborhoods of a city; the inner elbow contains a
different group of residents than the forearm.
Furthermore, in contrast to habitats such as the deep sea, where
emigration and immigration are rare events, many microbial communities
associated with humans are affected by constant interactions with
microorganisms coming in from the environment. Microbes in the gut,
for instance, encounter bacteria that ride in on the food we consume.
These visitors introduce a huge, unpredictable component that makes
any determination of a core microbiome all the more difficult. In
order to develop well-framed research questions, it’s crucial that
microbiologist learn how to differentiate between co-evolved species
and these itinerant “tourists.”
What we do know, however, is that our own personal microbiomes tend to
be partly inherited — most of us pick up bacteria from our mothers and
other family members early in life — and partly shaped by lifestyle.
Ley, who has surveyed the gut bacteria of several species, says that
diet is an important factor in determining the communities that live
in an organism. Even with our processed foods and sterilized kitchens,
Ley says, humans are not radically different from other animals that
share our eating habits.
The individuality of each person’s microbiome might complicate the
project of studying human-microbe relationships, but it also presents
opportunities — for instance, the possibility that medical treatments
could be tailored to a person’s particular microbiota. Much like a
genetic profile, a person’s microbiome can be seen as a sort of
natural identification tag. As David Relman, a microbiologist at
Stanford University, puts it, “It’s a biometric — a signature of who
you are and your life experience.” With support from the Human
Microbiome Project, Relman is currently developing novel microfluidic
devices that can isolate and sequence the genomes of individual
bacterial cells. (Extracting genetic information from a complex sample
normally mixes together hundreds if not thousands of unique species,
so this single-microbe technology could well revolutionize the speed
and scope of the entire field of metagenomics.) Personal microbiome
information will also have implications for practical concerns, such
as how we deploy antibiotics. Might those antibiotics we down at the
first sign of an upset stomach be waging an unjustified civil war?
Where do the massive quantities of antibiotics we feed to our
livestock ultimately end up, and do they disrupt delicate ecological
balances? We have lived with microbes for our entire evolutionary
history; how has the widespread use of chemicals that kill them
changed those long-forged evolutionary relationships?
Few people are more familiar with life’s interdependence and the
blurriness of its distinctions than microbiologists. The recent
metagenomic studies have revealed a daunting amount of diversity in
microbial life, with none of the clear divisions we’re used to in the
“macro” world. Among bacteria, the entire concept of species breaks
down; it’s difficult for scientists to even categorize what they are
seeing. Microbes offer a picture of life that is fluid and ever
changing.
To come to terms with this diversity, microbiologists are today
relinquishing the desire to name names. When studying a community,
they no longer focus on developing a roster of who is there; instead,
they ask what kinds of genes are present and what their functions are.
In the human microbiome, which species we harbor may be less important
than what they are doing.
William Karasov, a physiologist and ecologist at University of
Wisconsin–Madison, believes that the consequences of this new approach
will be profound. “We’ve all been trained to think of ourselves as
human,” he says. Bacteria have been considered only as the source of
infections, or as something benign living in the body. But now, he
says, it appears that “we are so interconnected with our microbes that
anything studied before could have a microbial component that we
hadn’t thought about.” It will take a major cultural shift, says
Karasov, for nonmicrobiologists who study the human body to begin to
take microorganisms seriously as a part of the system.
Equally challenging, though in a different respect, will be changing
long-held ideas about ourselves as independent individuals. How do we
make sense of this suddenly crowded self? David Relman suggests that
how well you come to terms with symbiosis “depends on how comfortable
you are with not being alone.” A body that is a habitat and a
continuously evolving system is not something most of us consider; the
sense of a singular, continuous self is a prerequisite for sanity, at
least in Western psychology. A symbiotic perspective depends on a
willingness to see yourself as the product of evolutionary timescales.
After all, our cells carry an ancient stamp of symbiosis in the form
of mitochondria. These energy-producing organelles are the vestiges
of
symbiotic bacteria that migrated into cells long ago. Even those parts
of us we consider human are part bacterial. “In some ways, we’re an
amalgam and a continuously evolving collective,” Relman says.
He also believes that we might have something to gain by embracing our
bacterial side. Bacteria are often dismissed as simpler, less
sophisticated, and less worthy of our consideration. “We put a lot of
weight on a life form’s ability to think independently,” Relman says,
but microbes have achieved fantastic evolutionary success by operating
on a very different principle. Microbial communities are filled with
examples of self-sacrifice for the benefit of the larger colony. They
form physically close communities in which some cells exist solely to
provide structural support or protection for others. This
“intertwining of fate,” as Relman puts it, is something that humans
could consider more seriously in the dynamics of their own societies,
instead of focusing so keenly on individual identity and success.
Perhaps we could learn a lesson in fluidity from our symbionts.
Science is always challenging us to let go of treasured categories and
divisions. The theory of evolution, for instance, forced us to see
species as points along a shared history, rather than as fixed
identities. Symbiosis goes a step further by showing us how species
are linked by more than history; they are living together in a
continuous, interconnected now.
When scientists in 1977 first discovered life in the deep-sea
hydrothermal vents, including gigantic tubeworms living in scalding-
hot water filled with hydrogen sulfide, they could not explain it.
Until then, all life was thought to derive its energy from the sun,
but this habitat was far from any light. Then scientists found that
the worms harbored symbiotic bacteria, which fed on hydrogen sulfide,
turning this poison into something usable by other life forms. The
discovery underscored the fact that life as we know it is built upon
microbes, whether we look in the deepest oceans or our own intestines.
We once had the luxury of ignoring the diminutive members of our
bodies and other ecosystems. Now the blinders are off.
------ copy paste ------
Bye
Sanny
Enjoy & Chat: http://www.GetClub.com
Sir Frederick
Thus they can grow up being cognizant of all the
little bugs around. As it is, the folk lore ignores them.
Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
hanson
in-"Sanny" <softt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
100 trillion Bactarias living on out body.
Just like humans live on Earth.
So are we a Planet Just like Earth with Trillions of
Bactarias living on us? Are these Bactarias controlling
out Brains? Are we a Spacship controlled by Bactarias?
>---- copy paste crap of in-Sanny snipped ------
>
hanson wrote:
in-Sannym, listen:
== Nature is self-similar over all domains and all scales.==
Your example is just a self-discovery by yourself that is
very often quoted and has been around since Koch.
Thanks for the laughs, though... ahahaha... ahahahanson
hanson
... FIRST, show proof that you had your nuts cut
before you made any offspring,.. because only
then does your "enough, already" message
carry any weight... BUT I suspect that you are
like the Green Shits and the Commies, singing:
"Do as I say not as I do"... Now go & fuck yourself,
and thanks for the laughs.... ahahahanson
Kilovolts
Google-posting fuckwit. With a hotmail address fuckwit.
Sanny
This is not my message I copy pasted from somewhere and it has been
prooved correct by Scientists and biological experts.
Bye
Sanny
Enjoy & Chat : http://www.GetClub.com
Do what I say not what I do. I am a bad guy but I want others to be
good.
Marris Horan
> >Our bodies harbor 100 trillion bacterial cells, outnumbering
> >our human cells 10 to one...
>
> Google-posting fuckwit. With a hotmail address fuckwit.
>This is not my message I copy pasted from somewhere and it has been
>prooved correct by Scientists and biological experts.
>Bye
>Sanny
Then stop posting here, you plagiarizing imbecile.
And learn to spell "proved", you blithering moron.
Another useless Google-poster!
Immortalist
Are you trying to say something like one doesn't need to know all that
just to live a long healthy and happy life?
Immortalist
Oh, right on man, if I feel like a million bucks, I can spend some of
it similarly?
BradGuth
> 100 trillion Bactarias living on out body. Just like humans live on
> Earth.
>
and environmentally essential than any biological maco realm that
includes us humans.
Sanny, The one significant species that Eden/Earth could do much
better without, is the human species. The sooner humans evacuate
Eden, the better off for most of everything else that was surviving
for millions upon millions of years as is before the human species
ever came along.
~ BG
Lofty Goat
> 100 trillion Bactarias living on out body. Just like humans live on
> Earth.
Yes, the prokaryotes in us are about as numerous as our own eukaryotes.
(The prokaryotes are a *lot* smaller.) Without them we'd die.
But... people corresponding on physics or astronomy groups don't really
care. If you were to post this sort of thing on a microbiology or human
physiology forum then the people reading it might actually be interested.
-- RLW
BradGuth
And you think the usual brown-nosed clowns of "a microbiology or human
physiology forum" would be less biased and/or willing to
constructively seek and share knowledge?
~ BG
andy everett
Yes! Let us fuck the Earth to the death of us all.
Androcles
"andy everett" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6oOGl.1042$N5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
as many.
Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
Ahmed Ouahi, Architect
You stupid you do want only to kill
And the hell is the others
The way they do sterilizes women
And they go to the others
--
Ahmed Ouahi, Architect
Best Regards!
"Androcles" <Headm...@Hogwarts.physics> kirjoitti
viestissä:qPQGl.44431$6C1....@newsfe23.ams2...
BradGuth
> "andy everett" <vze2q...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6oOGl.1042$N5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>
>
> > hanson wrote:
>
> >> "Sir Frederick" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> >> Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>
> >> hanson wrote:
> >> ... FIRST, show proof that you had your nuts cut
> >> before you made any offspring,.. because only
> >> then does your "enough, already" message carry any weight... BUT I
> >> suspect that you are
> >> like the Green Shits and the Commies, singing:
> >> "Do as I say not as I do"... Now go & fuck yourself,
> >> and thanks for the laughs.... ahahahanson
>
> > Yes! Let us fuck the Earth to the death of us all.
>
> The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
> the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
> twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
> as many.
> Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
Make it a 50/50 deal with the devil, by creating as much green/
renewable energy as possible, thereby making the quality of life
better and therefore reducing the need of any war economy or breeding
of large families in order to out-survive the next family on the
block.
Earth needs 100 TW, 75% of which needs to be green/renewable, 20%
thorium and 5% other.
~ BG
hanson
>>
"Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>>
hanson wrote:
... FIRST, show proof that you had your nuts cut
before you made any offspring,.. because only
then does your "enough, already" message carry
any weight... BUT I suspect that you are
like the Green Shits and the Commies, singing:
"Do as I say not as I do"... Now go & fuck yourself,
and thanks for the laughs.... ahahahanson
>
Yes! Let us fuck the Earth to the death of us all.
>
ahahahaha.... What is this "us all" shit?... It is only
YOU & unemployable class 3 enviros, like yourself
who suck on and fuck with the public through.. and
believe that this will save the Earth and "us all" ...
ahahaha...
... and that is so because you, Andy, are damaged
goods ever since you became a class 3 enviro.
Read here, in your Green Bible, why that is so:
>
http://tinyurl.com/6rqe22
>
Till you move up into class 1 or 2, you will be fucking
yourself, Andy, you sorry sod...AHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Thanks for the laughs... ahahahanson
BradGuth
Perhaps lord hanson has his/her "Bloodlines of power" that makes them
extra special, just like the Zionist Nazis and our Skull and Bones
were special folks that you don't want to mess with or get in their
way.
~ BG
mollybmolly
the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
as many.
Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
This part of the thread interests me. Would be glad to hear some
thoughts on this part. Do you not think it possible that we will have
a significant dieback of our species? Or will we "fix" our way out of
the problem by colonizing other planets or using technology to create
new biospheres for our use.
Too_Many_Tools
> "andy everett" <vze2q...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6oOGl.1042$N5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>
>
> > hanson wrote:
>
> >> "Sir Frederick" <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> >> Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>
> >> hanson wrote:
> >> ... FIRST, show proof that you had your nuts cut
> >> before you made any offspring,.. because only
> >> then does your "enough, already" message carry any weight... BUT I
> >> suspect that you are
> >> like the Green Shits and the Commies, singing:
> >> "Do as I say not as I do"... Now go & fuck yourself,
> >> and thanks for the laughs.... ahahahanson
>
> > Yes! Let us fuck the Earth to the death of us all.
>
> The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
> the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
> twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
> as many.
> Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
The problem will solve itself.
As a member of that species, you just won't like the solution.
TMT
Androcles
"mollybmolly" <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9add6199-e7b0-4bc6...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
> the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
> twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
> as many.
> Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
>
> This part of the thread interests me. Would be glad to hear some
> thoughts on this part. Do you not think it possible that we will have
> a significant dieback of our species? Or will we "fix" our way out of
> the problem by colonizing other planets or using technology to create
> new biospheres for our use.
Colonise other planets? You don't understand doubling. If we colonised
Mars because Earth is full then Mars would be full in 33 years, then we
have to find two more planets. That's no solution.
No, what is going to happen (and it has already begin) is mass starvation
and war as ethnic/political groups fight each other for resources. The
resource needed most is food (wheat and rice), and that requires land.
Land doesn't double.
Get used to the idea that mankind (not individuals) is a greedy swarm with
the intelligence of a locust. It takes just one leader (Hitler, Caesar,
Stalin,
Roosevelt, Churchill, Attila, Hirohito, the Pope) to mobilise the mob and
when the mob is hungry they'll find that leader. Man will exterminate
himself because he went forth and multiplied and didn't know when to
stop.
Every Xmas you'll see an appeal, give money to this little darling living
in third world poverty so that she can have a better life, and in 15 years
she'll have four little darlings of her own, all with hungry mouths wanting
a better life. You can pity them now, or pity your own offspring 100 years
from now when they invade your country. Britain is not keeping out
Asians, the USA is not keeping out Mexicans, Germany is not keeping
out Turks. Of course you'll be dead by then and so will I, but we did
"the right thing" by providing food and medicine to those in need of
it and creating a massive problem for our grandchildren and theirs.
What do soldiers do in victory? Rape the women, they can't control
their hormones. One individual might be ok, but collectively man is all
wild animal, driven by greed and totally insane.
I don't have any answers, it's what will happen because it must and you
will not change human nature.
mollybmolly
> "mollybmolly" <mollyb.mo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
You will scoff but read up a little on ecofeminism. It speaks to
patriarchy and the role of ego. One could argue that evolution will
act on humans to foster coperation, collaboration, partnership and
despite die backs our species will persevere. Some ethics would help
along the way. You may be right but the audacity of hope persists. At
least in some of us.
Androcles
===============================================
You hope all you want to, I'm looking at simple mathematics.
After the war there'll be some survivors, the cycle will start again,
but civilization as we know it will have collapsed. Enjoy the golden age
while it is here.
hanson
>
The self-anointed eco-feminist Rolly Polly "mollybmolly"
<mollyb...@gmail.com> worried and wrote:
>
"Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>>
hanson wrote:
you made any offspring because only then does your message
"enough, already" carry any weight...
Androcles mused, feared, declared and wrote:
The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
as many. Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
>
This part of the thread interests me. Would be glad to hear some
thoughts on this part. Do you not think it possible that we will have
a significant dieback of our species? Or will we "fix" our way out of
the problem by colonizing other planets or using technology to
create new biospheres for our use.
>
---------------------- The Quickie ----------------------
>
1) The JUNIORS, the up & coming generation, gives an utter fuck
about over-population & worries NOT about "diebacks" or "fixes".
For kids, the world is a bowl of cherries, even if they have no
cherries nor bowls. For them it's an adventure & then a hormone
driven existence to be enjoyed to the hilt. The more the better.
>
2) The ADULTS, the parents, the current generation in charge
of affairs, big and small, has to hustle and pay for their "sins"
do begin to worry under all the weight and burden of all kinds
of obligations that they have amassed, and hence they have
neither time nor interest in worrying about populations levels...
>
3) The ELDERS, in retirements, who had their run, do look back,
mostly in disappointment, onto their unfulfilled expectations and
their unachieved dreams. In their unenviable position, their final
curtain looming, they begin to lament that it was not their own
shortcomings or bad luck, but that it was the fact that there were
too many other folks in the race which caused them to be losers.
>
But, I like lots of people, the more the better, and AFAIAC things
are cool, now & for a long time to come, including all the up's and
the all the downs, like disasters, pandemics, famines & genocides.
One gotta take the good with the bad. Nobody promised us a
rose garden, except the cocksucking rabbis, priests, mullahs &
the enviro turds & politician, all being lying shitheads sponging
off the efforts of (1), (2) and (3) above, to fill their own wallets...
>
---------------------- The Longie ----------------------
>
There is plenty of space on Earth for the billions of people, now
and for a long time to come... to survive very comfily for all. The
current population is ~ 6 billion ~ 10^10 individuals of us, but
that's NOT a very large amount: # Tell 100 of your acquaintances
for each of them to call 100 of their (different) aquainentces,
for each of them to... #, and repeat this request only 5 times
and you have contacted, by proxy, 10^(2*5) = 10^10, 10 billion
people, the entire human population of the Earth... ahahaha...
>
Humans love to sit atop of each other with a passion. To some
paranoid fucks that seems to be a problem. But very many
folks enjoy it. Very prosperous Singapore has population density
of 7000 folks/ km^2, the fat Vatican prays together with 2000
believers / km^2.. and in contrast on the entire world's land
masses there are only residing 45 people / km^2 in average.
So, there is plenty of reservoir-space to accept drastic
population increases.... ahahahaha...
>
Don't bring up the objection that there is bad real-estate, unfit
for/as human habitat. The rich Swiss, the Austrians & Denver
folks, Tibetans & the Nepalese will disagree with you when it
comes to altitude. The Bedouins & Saudis love their very hot
and dry deserts. The Ruskies, Mongolians, Canadians and
Scandinavians love their icy worlds... All in all, there is NO
need for any fear from over-population in this regard... There
is plenty of space for every taste and every activity, except if
the Green shits interfere with their misanthropic fetishes.
>
http://www.scribd.com/doc/334421/Earth-Blue-Beauty
>
Look in there at the night sky satellites pix and see that the
earth is largely a place empty & devoid of human presence.
>
Of course we can get paranoid over and about those dangers
that we have NO control over. But what good does that do?
Nothing....except for generating of profits for the ill begotten
Green Shits who beguile the world with getting "rid" of people
in favor of the survival of some endangered fucking worm etc
... ahahahaha... It is this peculiar enviro misanthropy that is
the greatest danger to the growth & well being of humankind.
>
ahahaha.. I know you don't wanna hear the rest of the long
sermon because it will only tell you to look into the mirror which
shows you that YOU were and are an active part of the problem
that you are groaning about...ahahaha... AHAHAHAHAHA...
>
So, why should I make you even more miserable then you
already are? ... I did not make this world, I am only forced to
dance in it, and dancing in it I do, with great gusto... which
leaves me without guilt... being pure, clean and pristine like
the driven snow.... Do the same! ... If you won't, don't or can't
... it must be because you have done some crime against the
law, humanity or nature? ....... What are you guilty of?
>
ahaha... ahahahaha... ahahahahanson
Sanny
> earth is largely a place empty & devoid of human presence.
Do you live in a desert or inside a submarine under the ocean.
You got 100 Trillion Bactarias in your body, have you ever counted
them. They are eating your brain everyday and you keep laughing
everyday.
------ Hanson Syndrome.
HaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHa
HiHiHIHi
HiHiHiHi
HaHa
HaHa
Hi
Hi
------ Hanson Syndrome.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> ----------- ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... ahahaha... -----------
>>
> The self-anointed eco-feminist Rolly Polly "mollybmolly"
> <mollyb...@gmail.com> worried and wrote:
>>
> "Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>>>
> hanson wrote:
> ... FIRST, show proof that you, Fred, had your nuts cut before you made
> any offspring because only then does your message
> "enough, already" carry any weight...
>>
> Androcles mused, feared, declared and wrote:
> The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
> the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
> twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
> as many. Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
There's a company in Arizona that uses hydroponics to grow 70,000 tonnes
of tomatoes every year from 100 hectares. Done right, we could feed a
population 10x the current size using only 10% of the land currently
being used for agriculture.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff
Androcles
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:755ro1F...@mid.individual.net...
> hanson wrote:
>> ----------- ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... ahahaha... -----------
>>>
>> The self-anointed eco-feminist Rolly Polly "mollybmolly"
>> <mollyb...@gmail.com> worried and wrote:
>>>
>> "Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
>> Also, the breeding of humans is enough, already.
>>>>
>> hanson wrote:
>> ... FIRST, show proof that you, Fred, had your nuts cut before you made
>> any offspring because only then does your message
>> "enough, already" carry any weight...
>>>
>> Androcles mused, feared, declared and wrote:
>> The greatest problem facing the human species is over-population,
>> the number is doubling every 33 years. In 33 years there will be
>> twice as many, in 66 years 4 times as many, in 100 years 8 times
>> as many. Solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
>
> There's a company in Arizona that uses hydroponics to grow 70,000 tonnes
> of tomatoes every year from 100 hectares. Done right, we could feed a
> population 10x the current size using only 10% of the land currently being
> used for agriculture.
>
not that fond of them that I want to live on them. You are quite
correct, intensive farming will be the way it will go, but it won't
solve the problem; all it will do is delay the inevitable.
Mr. and Mrs. Adam and Eve Microbe live in a Petri dish that is filled
with agar nutrient. They reproduce after one minute and die after two
minutes. Their offspring does the same, and the population doubles
every minute. The process began at 11:00 pm and at midnight the dish
is completely filled with microbes, all nutrient gone and no room to
grow more. At 12:01am all the microbes are dead, they starved.
What time was the dish half full?
Joe Six-pack guesses 11:30 pm, but he's wrong. The correct answer
is 11:59 pm, the population doubles in the last minute to fill the dish.
It is already 11:57 pm for the human race and it has nuclear weapons
to wipe itself out. What are you going to do, tell them to keep it in
their pants? That won't happen, but they will kill each other and then
thank their god for being on their side, the irrational morons. Praise
the Lawd and pass the ammunition. The Merkins live in a republic
and want Christ the King to rule over them. Fuck crazy, and the
Pope says no birth control allowed. The ONLY sane solution is
enforced sterilization as cha-cha-hanson says. Two kids, that's your
lot, slash the vas, knot the fallops. Not in 66 years, not in 33 years,
but NOW. It won't happen, man is not sane and never has been.
So let Nature take its course and die from starvation, war and
disease. It has already begun in places like Zimbabwe, with Mugabe
still running the show. Cholera! No need for it at all.
Where's your 70,000 tonnes of tomatoes every year from Zimbabwe?
Ain't gonna happen, the white farmers have been kicked out and the
blacks are clueless.
You have to solve the political problem, not the technological one.
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
those are in our gut.
Sanny
> "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bru...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:755ro1F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > hanson wrote:
> >> ----------- ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... ahahaha... -----------
>
> >> The self-anointed eco-feminist Rolly Polly "mollybmolly"
You are Right.
70% of Pakistan has gone into hands of Taliban When 100% goes Taliban
will have 20-50 Nuclear Bomb that is sufficient to wipe Iraq and
Afganistan where US is ruling.
Bye
Sanny
Enjoy & Chat: http://www.GetClub.com/
hanson
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
hanson wrote:
>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/msg/22042297495e9488
wherein it talks about the phony issues of doom raised by
the Green zits over supposed living space scarcity due to
supposed over population, neither of which is a problem.
The scares of global food production doom raised by the
Enviro turds falls also into the same category: Enviro lies.
>
Dirk wrote:
There's a company in Arizona that uses hydroponics to grow
70,000 tonnes of tomatoes every year from 100 hectares.
Done right, we could feed a population 10x the current size
using only 10% of the land currently being > used for agriculture.
>
hanson wrote:
Exactly!... and none of this nor any other innovation does
need eco-lamentations nor any enviro advice or -consent.
All these enviro dances are nothing more than euphemisms
for extorting from you permit charges, user fees, recycling fees,
enviro surtaxes and carbon head taxes etc....
>
There is nothing "green nor environmental "about this tomatoes
endeavor. (except green when tomatoes are not ripe... ahahaha)
This is simply, like all other such improvements, a need full-filled
by the enterprising minds of "DOERS" which resulted in them
making a buck, for doing it better, faster and cheaper.
>
But what is clearly a manifest and fast emerging doom is that
Environmentalism and its eco-fanaticism are more vile, vicious
and destructive than were Nazism, Zionism and Communism
and Anarchism combined.
The ultimate price for these legitimized eco/enviro ideologies
may well be the collapse of our once thriving global civilization
that took the sweat, blood and tears of untold numbers of
hardworking people for 2 centuries to develop. Their efforts and
achievements are now being systematically destroyed, since
Earthday 1970, with the introduction of environmental laws.
The global collapse of the financial system was just the 1st
demonstration of the destructive consequences of Greenism
hanson
ahahahaha... ahahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA...
>
in-"Sanny" <softt...@hotmail.com> cranked himself due to
his brain-"Bactarias" that made him sing his painfully shrill Aria
"HiHiHIHi -- HiHiHiHi -- Hi Hi" and so, more then ever in-Sanny
Look in there at the night sky satellites pix and see that the
earth is largely a place empty & devoid of human presence.
>
Do you live in a desert or inside a submarine under the ocean.
You got 100 Trillion Bactarias in your body, have you ever counted
them. They are eating your brain everyday and you keep laughing
everyday.
>
------ Hanson Syndrome.
HaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHa
HiHiHIHi
HiHiHiHi
HaHa
HaHa
Hi
Hi
------ Hanson Syndrome.
>
in-Sanny, in the *** FAQ: about ahahaha.... AHAHAHA.... ***
which you should have read first, but obviously didn't, it says:
http://tinyurl.com/5uhqw7
" whenever you see someone commenting about "ahaha...
AHAHAHA" you know right off the bat that you've got a real
stupid fool & uptight mooch on your hands worth having big
time fun with".
>
.... ahahahaha... So, in-Sanny, let's have more fun, shall we?
Thanks for the laughs, in advance... ahahahaha... ahahahanson
bushhelpscorporationsdestroyamerica
> ---- AHAHA... another mooch landed on my sticky fly-paper... ----
> ahahahaha... ahahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA...
>
> his brain-"Bactarias" that made him sing his painfully shrill Aria
WAR CRIMINAL LIAR MURDERER DICK CHENEY, NEEDS TO BE TRIED FOR MURDER
AND TORTURE NOW!!!!!!!!!
hanson
----------------- ahahahaha.... ahahahahaha.... ------------
>
nameless poster "bushhelpscorporationsdestroyamerica"
<bushhelpsc...@yahoo.com>
>
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
---- AHAHA... another mooch landed on my sticky fly-paper... ----
ahahahaha... ahahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA...
>
wherein it says in this link [1]:
Look in there at the night sky satellites pix and see that the
earth is largely a place empty & devoid of human presence.
>
his brain-"Bactarias" that made him sing his painfully shrill Aria
"HiHiHIHi -- HiHiHiHi -- Hi Hi" and so, more then ever in-Sanny
>
[snipped the in-sanny crap because another one infected
with in-Sannys' "Bactarias" got stuck on the flypaper and
screamed:]
>
"bushhelpscorporationsdestroyamerica" wrote:
WAR CRIMINAL LIAR MURDERER DICK CHENEY, NEEDS
TO BE TRIED FOR MURDER AND TORTURE NOW!!!!!!!!!
>
ahahahaha... then why did you vote for Bush and Cheney?
You are might slow on the uptake, aren't you... ahahaha..
Beside now you torture yourself with your screaming
much more then Bush and Cheney will ever be.....
>
I understand though that you are so upset because you
seem to have lost your job recently, which of course is a
shame but it brings up the question, in that link above [1]
which you responded to, that asked you:
----------- What crime are you guilty of? ------------------
>
It is probably this here, but you being an unemployed class 3
enviro do not know that... it is clearly a manifest and fast
emerging fact that Environmentalism and its eco-fanaticism
Zionism and Communism and Anarchism combined.
The ultimate price for these legitimized eco/enviro ideologies
may well be the collapse of our once thriving global civilization
that took the sweat, blood and tears of untold numbers of
hardworking people for 2 centuries to develop. Their efforts and
achievements are now being systematically destroyed, since
Earthday 1970, with the introduction of environmental laws.
The global collapse of the financial system was just the 1st
>
Are you feeling better now? If not then I can't help but to
thank you for the laughs... ahahahahaha... ahahahahanson
TedKennedyMurderedHisP...@spamgourmet.com
As I understand it, we're about 15,000 years past due for an eruption
from a super volcano, and supposedly they average eruptions about
every 66,000 years or so. When the next one of those puppies comes
along, we won't be worrying about population issues, or anything else
for that matter.
TedKennedyMurderedHisP...@spamgourmet.com
Scoff? Look at humanity's history; there's plenty of proof to
demonstrate that global cooperation is not an achievable goal.
Have fun with your pipe dream.
Sam Wormley
>
> As I understand it, we're about 15,000 years past due for an eruption
> from a super volcano, and supposedly they average eruptions about
> every 66,000 years or so. When the next one of those puppies comes
> along, we won't be worrying about population issues, or anything else
> for that matter.
>
Got data?
Geode
> "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bru...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:755ro1F...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > hanson wrote:
> >> ----------- ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... ahahaha... -----------
>
> >> The self-anointed eco-feminist Rolly Polly "mollybmolly"
Some people do not think 1% a year growth of population looks too
much.
In times of Roman Empire, year 0 AD, it is estimated 320 million
people habitated this planet. Now, after 2008 years we have 6,500
million people. So the population of the planet had multlied by
20,31 It does not look much.
I the planet had sustained a growth of 1% a year during the las 2008
years, we would have now... 1.5 *(10^17) inhabitants. That is a
thousand people per squarted yard, or 100 people per squared foot,
over the whole solid surface of the planet.
I think we need to find a soon a solution to stop population growth.
But not only population growth. We need also to stop economic growth
or we are going to run out of oil in less than 20 o 30 years. The
trouble with the oil is not that we are consuming too much. it is
worst, we are incrementing the consumption of oil faster than 5% a
year. That means, in 14,2 years we are going to need twice the oil we
are consuming now. And in 28,4 we would be consuming four times the
present amount of oil.
There is another trouble ahead. The cheap food we got at present, that
had helps us to feed so many people, is based on cheap oil and motors
that run on fuel that is oil. We are at present wasting a lot of
precious oil to run our cars. That would be a precious oil we would
not have in a near future. So, as my math professor put it, human
population growth in a thousand years would one day be represented in
a graph as flat curve with a sudden bump up of growth due to the coal
and oil consumption, and our machines that produced bountiful harvest
and fertilizers.
Leopoldo
Geode
I remember one guy who heard me talk about "overpopulation" and he get
into the chat and said. "Overpopulation? We still got the moon and
the planets to colonize!"
My question is... do you agree with this prospective? What we would
be many people here, will we colonize the moon?
What is easier to do, to control the cumber of kids we raise, or to
send millions of people to the moon the nearby planets?
Since 0 AD (Roman Empire times) to the present, if the population of
the planet had been growing at 1% a year, we would be now a thousand
people per squared yard in this planet. I mean of the solid surface
only, not includes the seas and oceans. If you spread all those
people of the whole surface, land and oceans, you would have only 300
people per squared yard. We would be a lot more fresher and we would
be breathing easier; a less foul air, I mean.
Leopoldo
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
A few years ago I flew across Siberia.
Nothing to see out of the window for more than two hours - not a single
sign of habitation. And much of the rest of the world is like that.
--
Dirk
Androcles
"Geode" <leopoldo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:295f7693-43d8-437d...@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
=========================================
Everyone has two parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents,
16 great^2grandparents (or 16 parents^4, since 2^4 = 16)
and each generation follows the last by 25 years. Hence a new born
child today has 2^4 parents that lived 100 years ago.
200 years ago he had 2^8
300 years ago he had 2^12
400 years ago he had 2^16 = 65536
500 years ago he had 2^20 = 1,048,576, roughly the population of
any European country at the time of Columbus, all of which would
be the descendents of citizens of Rome from 1500 years earlier;
Rome established an Empire across Europe, North Africa and the
Middle East, we've inherited their alphabet.
800 years ago he had 2^32 = 4.3 billion, more than existed on the
planet. It follows that we all share a common ancestor and are cousins.
If the human population were halved we would eat half as much food
and use half as much oil.
As I said, solve that and the other problems will solve themselves.
It is great that we have medicines and food in plenty to prolong our
lives rather than see our own children get sick and die in poverty as
they did in earlier times, but logically the price has to be not to have
more than two children.
Two healthy children, voluntary vasectomy at no cost to the individual,
paid for out of taxes. Three children, all healthy, enforced vasectomy,
enforced abortion. I say healthy because a child with Downs syndrome
or leukaemia will not reproduce.
But it has to be world wide, which is why you have to solve the
political problem. It can only work if we all agree to the same SANE
laws such as agreeing to drive on the same side of the road for the
safety of others, not insane laws that say you have to wear a seat
belt for your own safety. If people want to kill themselves, let them,
they should have that much freedom of choice. It is the church-going
do-gooder brigade that want to enforce their stupid Victorian concept
of morality on the rest of us. We certainly don't need laws to prevent
abortion or embryonic stem cell research which can enhance the quality
of life, and we all ready have far too much quantity.
Androcles
==============================================
The Moon has no atmosphere because it has insufficient gravity to
hold on to one. Any humans living on the Moon will be forced to live
underground or under a roof of some kind. One can expect some
research bases and telescopes much like Antarctica has, but anything
beyond that it isn't practical. Colonizing Antarctica has the advantage
of air and water but who wants to live in the cold on Kentucky Fried
Penguin in darkness for 6 months a year? The Moon is even colder
although it is only dark for a fortnight per lunar month.
Neither is practical. It is not even practical to live on mountain tops
in Wales, Scotland or Austria unless you are a goat or sheep.
So the answer is no, because we can't and we would not want to.
==============================================
Geode
You could ask another question, why nobody is living there? Next you
can plan a fly through Anctartic, and you would not see any hamlet of
straw hut there, why? It is so nice and white place to live! Or yu
can fly over the Sahara, or over outback of Australia, or just over
the Himalayan Mountains, or the Indokush ranges, over the Goby desert
or Mongolia. Why are those places nearly empty? Are we despising the
gifts of god.
Leopoldo
TedKennedyMurderedHisP...@spamgourmet.com
Sorry, just regurgitating something heard from one of the educational
channels, which I don't bother to record with the DVR.
BradGuth
For starters, gofuckyourseldwithyourlongname. Secondly, you
understand nothing that has any meaning to anyone else.
btw, when has religion and their politics not caused multiple deaths
(millions upon millions) of the mostly innocent, and then having false-
flagged it in order to blame others?
~ BG
Sam Wormley
Some Resources -- The later agrees with what you remember from the
educational channels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervolcano
http://www.helium.com/items/1086391-super-volcanoes-the-apocalypse
BradGuth
Too bad you guys can't contribute anything as to the 2e20 N/s of tidal
radius force, that it's taking in order to hold onto our extremely
unusual Selene/moon.
~ BG
Geode
the Toba volcano in Sumatra is estimated to have blown up 75 thousand
years ago. Some theories asume that produced a winter that lasted
several years, and nearly wiped out most hominids in the planet. It
was some 20 or 25 thousand years later that modern homo sapiens get
out of Africa to disperse for all continents of the world but the
Antarctic.
The volcanic ashes from Toba covered parts of China and India. That
was what a heard in a video.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Toba
http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/originals/Weber-Toba/ch1_intro/text1.htm
Leopoldo