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Vysotsky, Empathy and Self-Esteem
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Ilya Shambat
Feb 8, 2024, 9:47:29 AMFeb 8
to
In a song called "Ships," the Soviet Union's greatest songwriter Vladimir Vysotsky stated, "I have no trust in fate, in myself even less faith." This statement poses a profound challenge to much contemporary thought in psychology.
According to contemporary psychology, self-faith (or self-esteem) is a prerequisite for a successful existence. According to this thought, Vysotsky should have been a complete loser. And yet he was one of the most successful singers and songwriters in all of history. How can this be?
Well it turns out that there is a very obvious reason why this can be. Self-faith and self-esteem are far from the only powers out there. Vystosky has been described by many people as being "the soul of Russia." What does this mean?
What this means in real-world terms is that he felt what the people of Russia were feeling and giving these feelings expression. People love those who articulate what they themselves feel, especially the feelings that they themselves either don't know how to, or are not allowed to, express. People love an empath, especially a vocal empath. So that even someone like Eminem, who expresses the ugliest of feelings, gets a huge following by tapping into what people are feeling and expressing it for them.
With Vysotsky, the feelings that he was expressing ranged across the board of Russian people. He had songs about people fighting in Second World War; about prisoners; about drunks; about punks; even about mental patients. And because of the vast emotional effort that he had put into feeling and then expressing what others were feeling, his own feelings were so enmeshed with those of others that, even when he was only expressing himself - as he did in "Ships" - his feelings still spoke to those of his audience.
In the West, the artists are taught to express their own feelings. This advice, I have found, is counterproductive. It gets the artistic types accused of self-absorption even as it fails to develop their ability to speak to the rest of the world. The vast success of Vysotsky, and the lack of interest that many people in the West have for the arts, show just how counter-productive this stance has been.
But there is something even more profound in this matter. Faith is by definition in things that are outside of what it is that believes. When one is in touch with something that is more profound than one's self - as was Vysotsky with the feelings of Russian people - then one does not need to have faith in oneself; indeed one does not need to have faith period. One is already in touch with a vast and powerful presence that extends far beyond oneself. And that is a source of far greater wisdom and far greater power than is self-belief.
Instead of teaching people to look within, it is far more effective to teach them to look outside of themselves - at other people, at nature, at other cultures than their own. The success of Vysotsky far exceeds that of any self-esteeming yuppie, and there is a very good reason for that. He was in touch with something much deeper than his immediate self, and he put words to it. And it is for this reason that his songs are still being listened to all over Russia over 30 years after his death.
Ilya Shambat
https://sites.google.com/site/ilyashambatthought
According to contemporary psychology, self-faith (or self-esteem) is a prerequisite for a successful existence. According to this thought, Vysotsky should have been a complete loser. And yet he was one of the most successful singers and songwriters in all of history. How can this be?
Well it turns out that there is a very obvious reason why this can be. Self-faith and self-esteem are far from the only powers out there. Vystosky has been described by many people as being "the soul of Russia." What does this mean?
What this means in real-world terms is that he felt what the people of Russia were feeling and giving these feelings expression. People love those who articulate what they themselves feel, especially the feelings that they themselves either don't know how to, or are not allowed to, express. People love an empath, especially a vocal empath. So that even someone like Eminem, who expresses the ugliest of feelings, gets a huge following by tapping into what people are feeling and expressing it for them.
With Vysotsky, the feelings that he was expressing ranged across the board of Russian people. He had songs about people fighting in Second World War; about prisoners; about drunks; about punks; even about mental patients. And because of the vast emotional effort that he had put into feeling and then expressing what others were feeling, his own feelings were so enmeshed with those of others that, even when he was only expressing himself - as he did in "Ships" - his feelings still spoke to those of his audience.
In the West, the artists are taught to express their own feelings. This advice, I have found, is counterproductive. It gets the artistic types accused of self-absorption even as it fails to develop their ability to speak to the rest of the world. The vast success of Vysotsky, and the lack of interest that many people in the West have for the arts, show just how counter-productive this stance has been.
But there is something even more profound in this matter. Faith is by definition in things that are outside of what it is that believes. When one is in touch with something that is more profound than one's self - as was Vysotsky with the feelings of Russian people - then one does not need to have faith in oneself; indeed one does not need to have faith period. One is already in touch with a vast and powerful presence that extends far beyond oneself. And that is a source of far greater wisdom and far greater power than is self-belief.
Instead of teaching people to look within, it is far more effective to teach them to look outside of themselves - at other people, at nature, at other cultures than their own. The success of Vysotsky far exceeds that of any self-esteeming yuppie, and there is a very good reason for that. He was in touch with something much deeper than his immediate self, and he put words to it. And it is for this reason that his songs are still being listened to all over Russia over 30 years after his death.
Ilya Shambat
https://sites.google.com/site/ilyashambatthought
oldernow
Feb 8, 2024, 2:54:31 PMFeb 8
to
On 2024-02-08, Ilya Shambat <ibsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Instead of teaching people to look within, it is far more
> effective to teach them to look outside of themselves -
> at other people, at nature, at other cultures than their
> own. The success of Vysotsky far exceeds that of any
> self-esteeming yuppie, and there is a very good reason for
> that. He was in touch with something much deeper than his
> immediate self, and he put words to it. And it is for this
> reason that his songs are still being listened to all over
> Russia over 30 years after his death.
The "yuppie" kind of "look within" is purely conceptual, merely
> Instead of teaching people to look within, it is far more
> effective to teach them to look outside of themselves -
> at other people, at nature, at other cultures than their
> own. The success of Vysotsky far exceeds that of any
> self-esteeming yuppie, and there is a very good reason for
> that. He was in touch with something much deeper than his
> immediate self, and he put words to it. And it is for this
> reason that his songs are still being listened to all over
> Russia over 30 years after his death.
examining beliefs about the individual/person one allegedly is.
There's a deeper look within than that, which I prefer to call
looking "behind the within", which is essentially awareness looking
at itself. In addition to other things, said looking undermines the
notion of the individual/person, effectively ending what seems/feels
to be a slavery/bondage to said notion.
--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com
D
Feb 9, 2024, 4:59:24 AMFeb 9
to
transpersonal psychology?
I wonder if therapy is ever so slightly again catching up to it with
psychedelic therapy.
A colleague of mine tried psylocybin and reported feeling closer
connected to life and more harmonious, spiritual.
Going back to the 70s (I think) alcoholics were cured with LSD.
So are these mushrooms and substances able to open the window without
investing time and effort in meditation, silence, fasting etc.?
And usually short cuts come with a price (just look at steroids for
instance, great results, but heavy price) what is the price paid for the
fast track to spirituality with psilocybin?
Best regards,
Daniel
Arindam Banerjee
Feb 9, 2024, 8:17:04 AMFeb 9
to
On Friday 9 February 2024 at 01:47:29 UTC+11, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> In a song called "Ships," the Soviet Union's greatest songwriter Vladimir Vysotsky stated, "I have no trust in fate, in myself even less faith." This statement poses a profound challenge to much contemporary thought in psychology.
Silly.
> In a song called "Ships," the Soviet Union's greatest songwriter Vladimir Vysotsky stated, "I have no trust in fate, in myself even less faith." This statement poses a profound challenge to much contemporary thought in psychology.
>
> According to contemporary psychology, self-faith (or self-esteem) is a prerequisite for a successful existence. According to this thought, Vysotsky should have been a complete loser. And yet he was one of the most successful singers and songwriters in all of history. How can this be?
Usually mediocre and loud people are very successful, especially if they can rake up some controversy.
> According to contemporary psychology, self-faith (or self-esteem) is a prerequisite for a successful existence. According to this thought, Vysotsky should have been a complete loser. And yet he was one of the most successful singers and songwriters in all of history. How can this be?
>
> Well it turns out that there is a very obvious reason why this can be. Self-faith and self-esteem are far from the only powers out there. Vystosky has been described by many people as being "the soul of Russia." What does this mean?
Those "many" people may want a soulless chap to be labelled such, to deny Russia has any soul, or innate spirit that is unique in its way.
> Well it turns out that there is a very obvious reason why this can be. Self-faith and self-esteem are far from the only powers out there. Vystosky has been described by many people as being "the soul of Russia." What does this mean?
>
Arindam Banerjee
Feb 9, 2024, 8:23:55 AMFeb 9
to
> news:890e65ea.03072...@posting.google.com...
> > The song of my heart is Alyona;
> > For, the love of my life is Alyona.
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > The love of my life is Alyona.
> >
> > The green of her eye's the ocean
> > That's forever mystery -
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > She's forever mystery.
> >
> > The salt of my life is Alyona.
> > The spring of my life is Alyona.
> > The birds they cry Alyona
> > O'er the surf that foams out her name.
> >
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > What have you done to me?
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > How you inspire me!
> >
> > I'll search, search for Alyona
> > Though she is ever with me!
> > For the blood of my veins is Alyona
> > And the air I breathe is she.
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > The air I breathe is she.
> >
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > She's the universe to me.
> > Alyona Alyona Alyona
> > She's forever mystery.
> >
> > Arindam Banerjee
> > Melbourne, July 2003
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