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Fred M. McNeill
Apr 26, 2012, 2:22:43 PM4/26/12
to
'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
even so called natural death, even suicides,
Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
are becoming detrimental.
Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
stories must be accommodated.
--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Phone: 858 206-3517
Poway, California, USA
Email mmcn...@fuzzysys.com
***********************************************
"Sure you can trust the Government, ask any Indian."
Ben Stein :“Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that
requires every citizen to prove they are insured....
but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”
**************************************
In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
even so called natural death, even suicides,
Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
are becoming detrimental.
Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
stories must be accommodated.
--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Phone: 858 206-3517
Poway, California, USA
Email mmcn...@fuzzysys.com
***********************************************
"Sure you can trust the Government, ask any Indian."
Ben Stein :“Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that
requires every citizen to prove they are insured....
but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”
**************************************
Dare
Apr 26, 2012, 3:27:02 PM4/26/12
to
"Fred M. McNeill" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message news:g54jp75pq693cgh54...@4ax.com...
Would they suffer depression like Marvin, Douglas Adams' depressed robot?
perhaps even be suicidal?
I hope not.
(Marvin did seem to find "God's Final Message to His Creation" acceptable.
That message was, "We apologise for the inconvenience."
I'm not sure I find it sufficient....doubt they care, though! :-) )
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
Will AI's help us('original' humans) model this new "human-ness"?
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
Would they suffer depression like Marvin, Douglas Adams' depressed robot?
perhaps even be suicidal?
I hope not.
(Marvin did seem to find "God's Final Message to His Creation" acceptable.
That message was, "We apologise for the inconvenience."
I'm not sure I find it sufficient....doubt they care, though! :-) )
tooly
Apr 27, 2012, 5:51:45 PM4/27/12
to
On Apr 26, 2:22 pm, Fred M. McNeill <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
> --
>
> Frederick Martin McNeill
> Phone: 858 206-3517
> Poway, California, USA
> Email mmcne...@fuzzysys.com
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
> --
>
> Frederick Martin McNeill
> Phone: 858 206-3517
> Poway, California, USA
> ***********************************************
> "Sure you can trust the Government, ask any Indian."
> Ben Stein :“Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that
> requires every citizen to prove they are insured....
> but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”
> **************************************
But Sir, you always lead us to water but never let us drink!! Pray
> "Sure you can trust the Government, ask any Indian."
> Ben Stein :“Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that
> requires every citizen to prove they are insured....
> but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”
> **************************************
tell, do you have an offering, a 'model' that might
work in the new era? That accomodates neuroscience, cosmology, and
ties into our 'old stories' as well?
And I also keep asking, What story would work with you? What would
"YOU" believe in; that is, would absorb your consciousness, and you
'become' that virtual reality [to whatever that story might be]? It's
"that" story that we NEED to know; the one that will satisfy the
intellectuals, the scientists, the engineers, for it is out of their
hand that we ALL must feed now.
Just saying 'Houston, We have a problem', does not provide a solution
to the problem. And Carl Sagan was adroit at destroying our illusions
[as most scientists and engineers are], but they never offer anything
to replace the void they create. They usually are just so PROUD of
their own prowess in the world you see, their intellect, their MASTERY
of the human brain and find their OWN significanse in that power
[which in the end becomes and empty void too I think].
Neuroscience and Sagan's cosmos still leaves us wholly 'reduced' to
the materials we are built upon, while erradicating whatever those
materials go to make up in their entirety. Thusly, consicousness
become a matter of nerve endings, and life itself only a matter of
biochemical tumbleweeds blowing around in specific niches of elemental
fit. The OBJECTIVE does NOT satisfy the 'essence' of the Subjective
in other words. Any stories we embrace, MUST provide some sustenance
at that subjective self...to become at least marginally DESCRIPTIVE of
the experience.
But, keep on working. I'm sure you will figure it out eventually.
But our tanks are running on empty and we need that STORY. You've
mastered our will to annihilate illusions, and now need to be
'refilled' as it were [well, at least I'm running on empty; gotta
impress Zerk that there is no WE, ha; and that bag of pennies I have
on my nightstand is made up of a single coin too]. "WE" don't even
exist...but to a MUCH deeper level than Zerkon argues. I mean, our
consciousness itself must only be NERVES vibrating, reverberating back
to make us SEEM to THINK we exist.
I think, therefore, I am...uh uh...no longer. Science and neurology
has us done to oscilloscope patterns, to AI conduits, to masses of low
level electrical discharge over synapses...and it just the complexity
that winds up making us BELIEVE "WE" even exist...when...even our very
sense of self, must be understood as only another illusion.
WE don't even exist, ha.
Ah...but then, there's that PAIN to deal with. Nerve endings have
other functions it would seem, not just consciousness, but also as
WHIPS to keep us in line and anchored in HELL.
TruthSlave
Apr 28, 2012, 8:53:18 AM4/28/12
to
Fred M. McNeill wrote:
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
New models, or new stories?
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
> It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
The new stories might start with our battle with evil, each
as the guardian of a tiny part of a greater whole, each with
a task of containing the smallest part of this whole, least
it escapes to grow and grow.
If one seeks a new model, then one could see the individual
and thus the species, as energy conversion engines. servants
of the machines. Engines with a potential which always needs
to be in harmony with its environment. Giving as much as it
takes. Not taking more than it can sustain.
Or we are deception machines, deceiving as we are deceived,
lying as we are lied to. Always expecting the truth as no one
would ever lie to us. Evolving our perception to best navigate
our environment. Or devolving our perception according to what
we accept and share or impose. Only the most perceptive survives
nature.
Note self-deception might reduce conflict between the individual
or the species, and his environment, but it can only be a short
term answer and goes against the rest of nature.
Nature when it is left to its own devices favors an evolved
perception, man though aided by his technologies, seems
destined to stagnate in the name of control, as he seeks to
manage his truthful perception.
> ---
Zerkon
Apr 28, 2012, 12:35:14 PM4/28/12
to
In article <g54jp75pq693cgh54...@4ax.com>,
mmcn...@fuzzysys.com says...
life.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
>
a 'new model' would be to stop wallowing in and pandering to ungrounded
despair.
mmcn...@fuzzysys.com says...
> 'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
> In that context,
In that context your 'humans' are no different than any other form of
> In that context,
life.
>
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
> even so called natural death, even suicides,
> Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
>
> Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
> A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
> stories must be accommodated.
>
despair.
M Purcell
Apr 28, 2012, 2:13:27 PM4/28/12
to
Rationality is a story for the irrational.
Fred M. McNeill
Apr 28, 2012, 5:31:56 PM4/28/12
to
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:22:43 -0700, Fred M. McNeill <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
>'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
>In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
>It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
>As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
>even so called natural death, even suicides,
>Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
>are becoming detrimental.
>
>Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
>A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
>stories must be accommodated.
Try 'death by paradigm shift'. Next!
>'Humans' are finite physical and information structures.
>In that context, "rational" is perhaps a cultural story.
>It may not actually exist, except in a 'virtual' sense.
>
>As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death by ignorance',
>even so called natural death, even suicides,
>Ignorance must be removed. 'Human' condition constraints
>are becoming detrimental.
>
>Time for some new models of what it is and means to be 'human'.
>A new paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology and the 'old'
>stories must be accommodated.
Jack McKinney
Apr 28, 2012, 5:30:04 PM4/28/12
to
OnThu, Apr 26, 2012, 11:22am (CDT-2) From: mmcn...@fuzzysys.com
greater portion of what you are can be considered as being your higher
self, or even your own personal god... This personal god is
indestructible, immortal, and relatively speaking, all knowing...
The game plan of this higher self is relatively speaking....SIMPLE.
It is attempting to raise a portion of its self (or what you consider
your self to be, in other words YOU) up to its level of being... and
once you have mastered that trick, you will then create lesser versions
of yourself, and attempt to brings those lesser version up to your new
and improved status....
And since there is no time, all said events have already been
accomplished, and all entities were saved...
For more insight see:
http://community.webtv.net/BJAK1949/MORETHANTHESUMOFITS
(Fred M. McNeill) wrote:
> 'Humans' are finite physical and
> information structures. In that context,
> "rational" is perhaps a cultural story. It
> may not actually exist, except in a
> 'virtual' sense.
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death
> by ignorance', even so called natural
> death, even suicides, Ignorance must be
> removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
> Time for some new models of what it is
> and means to be 'human'. A new
> paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology
> and the 'old' stories must be
> accommodated.
--
A human being is more than the sum of its physical parts; and that
> 'Humans' are finite physical and
> information structures. In that context,
> "rational" is perhaps a cultural story. It
> may not actually exist, except in a
> 'virtual' sense.
> As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death
> by ignorance', even so called natural
> death, even suicides, Ignorance must be
> removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> are becoming detrimental.
> Time for some new models of what it is
> and means to be 'human'. A new
> paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology
> and the 'old' stories must be
> accommodated.
--
greater portion of what you are can be considered as being your higher
self, or even your own personal god... This personal god is
indestructible, immortal, and relatively speaking, all knowing...
The game plan of this higher self is relatively speaking....SIMPLE.
It is attempting to raise a portion of its self (or what you consider
your self to be, in other words YOU) up to its level of being... and
once you have mastered that trick, you will then create lesser versions
of yourself, and attempt to brings those lesser version up to your new
and improved status....
And since there is no time, all said events have already been
accomplished, and all entities were saved...
For more insight see:
http://community.webtv.net/BJAK1949/MORETHANTHESUMOFITS
M Purcell
Apr 28, 2012, 6:39:44 PM4/28/12
to
On Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:30:04 PM UTC-7, Jack McKinney wrote:
> OnThu, Apr 26, 2012, 11:22am (CDT-2) From: mmcn...@fuzzysys.com
> (Fred M. McNeill) wrote:
>
> > 'Humans' are finite physical and
> > information structures. In that context,
> > "rational" is perhaps a cultural story. It
> > may not actually exist, except in a
> > 'virtual' sense.
>
> > As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death
> > by ignorance', even so called natural
> > death, even suicides, Ignorance must be
> > removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> > are becoming detrimental.
>
> > Time for some new models of what it is
> > and means to be 'human'. A new
> > paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology
> > and the 'old' stories must be
> > accommodated.
> --
>
> A human being is more than the sum of its physical parts; and that
> greater portion of what you are can be considered as being your higher
> self, or even your own personal god... This personal god is
> indestructible, immortal, and relatively speaking, all knowing...
I would call it a personal ideal, what we want to be.
> OnThu, Apr 26, 2012, 11:22am (CDT-2) From: mmcn...@fuzzysys.com
> (Fred M. McNeill) wrote:
>
> > 'Humans' are finite physical and
> > information structures. In that context,
> > "rational" is perhaps a cultural story. It
> > may not actually exist, except in a
> > 'virtual' sense.
>
> > As it is, 'we' all seem to die from 'death
> > by ignorance', even so called natural
> > death, even suicides, Ignorance must be
> > removed. 'Human' condition constraints
> > are becoming detrimental.
>
> > Time for some new models of what it is
> > and means to be 'human'. A new
> > paradigm. Neuroscience, cosmology
> > and the 'old' stories must be
> > accommodated.
> --
>
> A human being is more than the sum of its physical parts; and that
> greater portion of what you are can be considered as being your higher
> self, or even your own personal god... This personal god is
> indestructible, immortal, and relatively speaking, all knowing...
> The game plan of this higher self is relatively speaking....SIMPLE.
>
> It is attempting to raise a portion of its self (or what you consider
> your self to be, in other words YOU) up to its level of being... and
> once you have mastered that trick, you will then create lesser versions
> of yourself, and attempt to brings those lesser version up to your new
> and improved status....
> And since there is no time, all said events have already been
> accomplished, and all entities were saved...
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