Re: Atheism takes you straight to hell

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 02:10:39 +0200
Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
> <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >You know something's bullshit when they have to
> >threaten you to make you buy it.
>
> Who is threatening? The Vedas are just explaining to you the result of
> your different activities. If you think you will not have to suffer
> for the wanton slaughter of other living entities by the culture you
> are a mindless product of, you are in for a grim surprise. That's not
> a threat, that's a promise.

With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for emphasizing
"consequences" too.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"To you, she's beautiful. To me, there's only my wife and son."
-- Vito Corleone (while watching an Italian opera)

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:58:03 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for emphasizing
>"consequences" too.

So is the Law. You have to follow the law, otherwise... why don't you
whine about that?

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5869462333689831330

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/K6y-GNCHgow - Buddha Bar
http://youtu.be/Ucvk5t2Inyk - Friction
http://youtu.be/sVUgoBaq71Q - I am your soul
http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
http://youtu.be/DC5OHr-Pm4I - Jahnava
http://youtu.be/y9KqLPCWR1E - Krishnart

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
http://www.facebook.com/groups/138462029613179/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq-n0bbhpaA - George
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QIX5h8y1w&feature - TOVP

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 11:26:16 +0200
Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:58:03 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> >With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for
> >emphasizing "consequences" too.
>
> So is the Law. You have to follow the law, otherwise... why don't you
> whine about that?

The law is impartial and focused on justice. The mafia has different
priorities that are comparable to religion, and both types of
organizations have well-earned reputations for believing that they are
"above the law," hence it is they who would make far better candidates
for "whining about it."

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I prefer laws that were written for today's society, not for a bunch
of amoral sheep herders who lived in the Middle East some 2,000 years
ago..."
-- Uncle Vic (May 3, 2012)

[Smiler]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:58:03 -0700, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess wrote:

> On Sun, 12 May 2013 02:10:39 +0200
> Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 May 2013 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
>> <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >You know something's bullshit when they have to threaten you to make
>> >you buy it.
>>
>> Who is threatening? The Vedas are just explaining to you the result of
>> your different activities. If you think you will not have to suffer for
>> the wanton slaughter of other living entities by the culture you are a
>> mindless product of, you are in for a grim surprise. That's not a
>> threat, that's a promise.
>
> With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for emphasizing
> "consequences" too.

"Nice soul you've got there. Be a pity if something nasty happened to it..."

--
Smiler,

The godless one. a.a.# 2279

All gods are tailored to order. They're made to

exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 02:06:42 +0100
Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:58:03 -0700, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 May 2013 02:10:39 +0200
> > Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 May 2013 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
> >> <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >You know something's bullshit when they have to threaten you to
> >> >make you buy it.
> >>
> >> Who is threatening? The Vedas are just explaining to you the
> >> result of your different activities. If you think you will not
> >> have to suffer for the wanton slaughter of other living entities
> >> by the culture you are a mindless product of, you are in for a
> >> grim surprise. That's not a threat, that's a promise.
> >
> > With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for
> > emphasizing "consequences" too.
>
> "Nice soul you've got there. Be a pity if something nasty happened to
> it..."

An overweight demon named Bruno could seem suddenly more intimidating.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"The art of acting consists in keeping people from coughing."
-- Ralph Richardson

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:20:16 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>The law is impartial and focused on justice.

So is the law of karma, that dictates you will either suffer or enjoy
according to your activities.

>The mafia has different
>priorities that are comparable to religion, and both types of
>organizations have well-earned reputations for believing that they are
>"above the law," hence it is they who would make far better candidates
>for "whining about it."

The modern state-law is not based on justice, it's based on money -
whether you can afford a good lawyer.

The Vishnu-dhutas say:

One who chants the holy name of the Lord is immediately freed from the
reactions of unlimited sins, even if he chants indirectly [to indicate
something else], jokingly, for musical entertainment, or even
neglectfully. This is accepted by all the learned scholars of the
scriptures.

-- Srimad Bhagavatam, 6.2.14

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 22:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net> wrote:
> On May 13, 3:22 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 13, 7:20 pm, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, 12 May 2013 16:49:51 -0700 (PDT), Richo
> > > <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Superstitious nonsense.
> > > >
> > > > "piety" is not a virtue.
> > >
> > > Because you say so?
> >
> > Because I have thought about what the word means.
> > Piety is an outward demonstration of your devotion to some deity or
> > faith - its a signal to your fellow beings that says "I am one of
> > you!" - so for example politicians in the USA make very sure to talk
> > about God in their speeches.
> > If they don't they will not be elected - or at least none ever has
> > been.
>
> <Cough> Pete Stark <cough>
>
> But apart from that, you're correct. At least in 'Merica. In Europe
> and Asia, atheists get elected to public office all the time.

In a country where freedom from religion is constitutionally protected,
it's ironic that this happens. It's as if religion has a stronger
influence on politics despite best intentions directed toward the
separation of church and state.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"In a revolution one wins or dies, if it is a real one."
-- Commander Ernesto "Che" Guevara

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 10:50:25 +0200
Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:20:16 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

> > On Mon, 13 May 2013 11:26:16 +0200
> > Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:58:03 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the

> >> non-existent atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> >>

> >> >With regards to threats, the mafia is far better-known for
> >> >emphasizing "consequences" too.
> >>
> >> So is the Law. You have to follow the law, otherwise... why don't
> >> you whine about that?
> >

> >The law is impartial and focused on justice.
>
> So is the law of karma, that dictates you will either suffer or enjoy
> according to your activities.

Where is this "law of karma" officially documented? Who are the police
who enforce it? Who are the judges appointed to rendering verdicts
within its confines? Can the general public attend the courts that
render verdicts to observe that the process is, indeed, impartial?

> >The mafia has different
> >priorities that are comparable to religion, and both types of
> >organizations have well-earned reputations for believing that they
> >are "above the law," hence it is they who would make far better
> >candidates for "whining about it."
>
> The modern state-law is not based on justice, it's based on money -
> whether you can afford a good lawyer.

That's a non-sequitur because that characteristic is a by-product of
the active political environment. For the most-part, the laws (at
least in countries like Canada) actually are based on justice.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Ours is a people's democratic dictatorship, led by the working class
and based on the worker-peasant alliance."
-- Mao Ze Dong

[Jahnu]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:08:41 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>Where is this "law of karma" officially documented?

In the Bhagavad Gita.

>Who are the police
>who enforce it?

Paramatma or the Supersoul - the aspect of God in the hearts of all
living entities.

Krishna says:

Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is
the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and
permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul. (Bg 13.23)

>Who are the judges appointed to rendering verdicts
>within its confines?

The demigods.

>Can the general public attend the courts that
>render verdicts to observe that the process is, indeed, impartial?

Yes, it's called the court of life.

>That's a non-sequitur because that characteristic is a by-product of
>the active political environment. For the most-part, the laws (at
>least in countries like Canada) actually are based on justice.

Theoretically, ideally, of course, it is. But practical life tells a
different story. You can escape the state-law, you can commit a crime
and never be brought to justice, but you cannot escape the law of
karma which dictates your destiny.

Krishna says:

Work done as a sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed; otherwise work
causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti,
perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way
you will always remain free from bondage. (Bg 3.9)

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 07:34:30 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:08:41 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
>atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>>Where is this "law of karma" officially documented?
>
>In the Bhagavad Gita.
>
>>Who are the police
>>who enforce it?
>
>Paramatma or the Supersoul - the aspect of God in the hearts of all
>living entities.
>
>Krishna says:
>
>Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is
>the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and
>permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul. (Bg 13.23)
>

and which lord god is that.. there are just so damn many it is so damn
hard to keep up
is it the jewish god or the hindu god or allah or maybe jesus or any
one of the 10 or so christian gods theres the cathloic and baptist
protostant pentacostal aww hell so many to just keep up with at least
they all have at least one thing in common they all know how to keep
the dumb ass fish on thier line

>>Who are the judges appointed to rendering verdicts
>>within its confines?
>
>The demigods.

oh damn there is more?

do you theists realize just how damn stupid you makes yourselves look
every time you say god or even think about worship or even prayer to a
god. any god real or imaginary.

Dont you know that if there really was a god and it had enough
intelligence to create life that it would NEVER want anyone to worship
it BECAUSE of dumbasses like you all that start wars and kill murder
and maime innocent people all in the name of you god? I mean just how
fucking stupid are all of you?

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 02:58:59 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>and which lord god is that.. there are just so damn many it is so damn
>hard to keep up
>is it the jewish god or the hindu god or allah or maybe jesus or any
>one of the 10 or so christian gods theres the cathloic and baptist
>protostant pentacostal aww hell so many to just keep up with at least
>they all have at least one thing in common they all know how to keep
>the dumb ass fish on thier line

There are, of course, different versions and conceptions of the
Supreme Person.

<blither-blather>

When you speak to people in general about God and religion, one
question that keeps coming up is - all religions are the same
nonsense, how do you know the God of your religion is better than any
other religion's God?

But it's a simple question to answer. First you read the Bible. Then
you read the Koran, and then you read Bhagavad Gita. These 3 books are
like the revealed scriptures of the world-religions, so they should
give you a pretty good answer.

When you have finished reading, you ponder the situation and ask
yourself - which of these books touch me the most profoundly, which of
them is closest to what you'd expect to hear from a God?

Can there be any doubt as to the answer?

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Geeta. It was the first of
books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which
in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same
questions which exercise us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

[Alex W]

It's not surprising when you think about it. Separate
church and state, and voters want to see their politicians
explicitly and expressly religious so that their faith may
be heard in the corridors of power. In countries with a
state church, this is simply not seen as necessary.

The other consideration, of course, is that unlike North
America, in Europe and Asia we still have the reminders of
sectarian warfare all around us. Voters know what may
happen when religion gets to work the levers of power.

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e959p85koqpt26e8o...@4ax.com...

> There are, of course, different versions and conceptions of the
> Supreme Person.
>
> <blither-blather>

Yes jahnu, blither-blather appears to be the thread that unites all
religions, simply posit the existence of an invisible sky pixie, back up
that contention with lots and lots of blither-blather, and voila, you've got
yourself a religion. Next step is to watch them kill each other for not
agreeing on whose magic pixie is more magical.

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 06:43:16 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>Yes jahnu, blither-blather appears to be the thread that unites all
>religions, simply posit the existence of an invisible sky pixie, back up
>that contention with lots and lots of blither-blather, and voila, you've got
>yourself a religion. Next step is to watch them kill each other for not
>agreeing on whose magic pixie is more magical.

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Geeta. It was the first of
books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which
in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same
questions which exercise us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"The marvel of the Bhagavad Geeta is its truly beautiful revelation of
life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion." -
Herman Hesse

"The Bhagavad Geeta is the most systematic statement of spiritual
evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear
and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of
humanity." - Aldous Huxley

"The reader is nowhere raised into and sustained in a bigger, purer or
rarer region of thought than in the Bhagavad Gita"
- Henry David Thoreau

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." - Henry David Thoreau

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 13:31:44 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip crap>

>"The reader is nowhere raised into and sustained in a bigger, purer or
>rarer region of thought than in the Bhagavad Gita"
> - Henry David Thoreau

<more crap>

>http://youtu.be/sVUgoBaq71Q - I am your soul
>http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
>http://youtu.be/DC5OHr-Pm4I - Jahnava

<and more crap>

let me refer to my original post

do you theists realize just how damn stupid you makes yourselves look
every time you say god or even think about worship or even prayer to a
god. any god real or imaginary.

Dont you know that if there really was a god and it had enough
intelligence to create life that it would NEVER want anyone to worship
it BECAUSE of dumbasses like you all that start wars and kill murder
and maime innocent people all in the name of you god? I mean just how
fucking stupid are all of you?

I mean cmon how much of an idiot are you? all three of those books
were written by humans edited censored snipped and cut by other humans
for hundreds or even thousands of years. so I say again...
ARE YOU A FUCKING IDIOT?
think man think use your brain

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 06:39:16 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>let me refer to my original post
>do you theists realize just how damn stupid you makes yourselves look
>every time you say god or even think about worship or even prayer to a
>god. any god real or imaginary.

You are arguing from you own incredulity. Bravo :)

>Dont you know that if there really was a god and it had enough
>intelligence to create life that it would NEVER want anyone to worship
>it BECAUSE of dumbasses like you all that start wars and kill murder
>and maime innocent people all in the name of you god? I mean just how
>fucking stupid are all of you?

The only one stupid here is youi. You have to be exceptionally
brain-dead to be an atheist, atheism relying as it is on totally blind
belief.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

"Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of
a universal negative." G.K. Chesterton

>I mean cmon how much of an idiot are you? all three of those books
>were written by humans edited censored snipped and cut by other humans
>for hundreds or even thousands of years. so I say again...
>ARE YOU A FUCKING IDIOT?
>think man think use your brain

Like you are doing? hahaha :)

The difference between you and me is that I have a working brain. I
know who God is. You are merely some dumbass brainwashed Mickey Mouse
clone - a product of the most harmful, destructive, ignorant and
coarse culture to ever grace the planet.

---but, but the Coca-cola culture gave us cars, computers and
mobilesphones, what do you mean? wah wah wah...


Who decided that technological expertise is the best method to measure
our ability to understand the reality we live in? Those who are
influential in defining peoples' realities - the producers,
scientists, advertising, the media, politicians, etc. -- have made
technological advancement the barometer of human progress, claiming
that the advancement of technology is a most noble pursuit for the
human race, that it has made the world a better place to live in.

As proof, they list all the consumer gadgets we use and are dependent
Upon - CD players, computers, cameras, cell-phones, televisions, DVDs,
cars, and so on - and say that the intelligence to build these things
shows that we have advanced our understanding of nature and how she
works far beyond our ability in the middle ages.

But is this proposition correct? To build a CD player, one certainly
requires advanced knowledge of physics and chemistry, but these two
elements contribute to only a small part of the reality we perceive. A
far greater portion of reality consists of our conscious experience of
it -- something most people have forgotten. The unsuspecting public
does not realize that they are the observers of reality, and that such
observation is conditioned by the culture they grew up in. They take
it for granted that what they experience is reality, and that this
reality is best described in physical and chemical terms.

Modern science is very useful for making technology, and when we live
in a world where the masses are kept in awe and reverence of
technological wonders, science is of course a most important
undertaking. But the jubilation of the modern people over the newest
technology is not different from the gaping wonder with which people
in the middle ages looked upon sorcerers and magicians firing off
sulphur and gun powder. The magicians did this to dupe their audience
and secure their comfortable hold on society. In the middle ages the
regents of society kept people in ignorance so they were easy to
control and manipulate, and today modern controllers use the exact
same means to enslave people in ignorance. In the global culture the
slaves have just been upgraded to a middle class who owns their own
house and car. But they still slave their lives away in boring jobs
and are marred by the same endless worries and miseries, people have
always suffered from. They are still being ground down by taxation,
victims of greedy politicians, exactly like it's always been.

There is no basis for saying that advanced knowledge of mathematics
and physics enables a person to better understand the reality he lives
in any more than the cave dweller of some 2000 years ago who
worshipped nature and various gods. If modern society were based on a
proper understanding of reality, why is it ruining nature and her
inhabitants, who are sustainers of life? It is atheism that keeps the
consciousness on this lower scale of conscious evolution and blocks a
human being from becoming self realized. Self realization simply means
to realize oneself as separate from matter, without which there is no
question of God-realization.

No amount of technological expertise can aid us in that. Despite the
so-called advancement of modern society the human being is till not
able to transcend his mental conditioning. The proof is that modern
society does not produce people with evolved consciousness. Rather, we
see the exact opposite taking place - in proportion to the advancement
of technology, people have become more and more base and animalistic.

So why aren't the principles of recognizing the self -- which is the
basis of all understanding and learning -- not being taught in the
modern educational institutions? Because society, as it exists, is not
equipped to facilitate self-realized human beings. What need does a
self realized person have of the plethora of useless products that are
produced by the few conglomerates that control world consumerism? Such
enlightenment would indeed negate the necessity for the technological
advancement upon which the world's finances now rely. That is why, in
the current global culture, a deliberate campaign exists to transform
people into atheists. In such a culture, religion has been replaced
with politics. Instead of voting for a particular religion, one now
votes for politicians, who are mostly hired by those multinationals
with the biggest checkbooks -- all in the name of serving the people,
of course. The modern Coca-cola and Disney culture has
already made the whole world into one big marketplace - a worldwide
altar where technology is worshipped as the new opium of the masses.

Being fed endless propaganda from Hollywood -- where technology is
being depicted as the saving grace for all of life's problems -- and
living in an environment where they are constantly bombarded by
cell-phone and computer emissions (EMF), we quickly forget that
technology, despite assurances to the contrary, cannot save us from
the onslaughts of nature. Time and time again, technology comes up
short in the fight against nature; the new priests of society, now
clad in white coats instead of black, fail to comprehend how the
mechanisms of nature work. And how could they? They also
suffer from the misunderstanding that everything is dead matter, and
are restricted by the assumption that their knowledge of physical laws
can explain everything.

Yet more important than the understanding of how matter works is to
understand how consciousness, false ego, intelligence and mind work.
These make up a much greater part of the reality we perceive. As long
as we fail to understand the difference between matter and
consciousness, we cannot even be said to have evolved beyond animal
consciousness. That's why atheism is dangerous - it keeps the
consciousness trapped in a one-dimensional world of matter. It keeps
the living being from its rare mission in the human life form, which
is to study consciousness. It cultivates a perception of life where
the consciousness cannot see itself - a deception where the
consciousness in its absorption in matter forgets itself.

"Materialism is the philosophy of the subject that forgets
to take account of itself." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Have a look at my art -

http://youtu.be/K6y-GNCHgow - Buddha Bar
http://youtu.be/Ucvk5t2Inyk - Friction

http://youtu.be/sVUgoBaq71Q - I am your soul
http://youtu.be/2uRbsf9Vzg8 - Sudder street
http://youtu.be/DC5OHr-Pm4I - Jahnava

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 07:34:30 +0200
Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:08:41 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> >Where is this "law of karma" officially documented?
>
> In the Bhagavad Gita.

So it's a local law somewhere. Here in Canada we abide by Canadian law
because we're obviously in a different jurisdiction.

> >Who are the police
> >who enforce it?
>
> Paramatma or the Supersoul - the aspect of God in the hearts of all
> living entities.

Where is their administration office or operations facility located?

> Krishna says:
>
> Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is
> the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and
> permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul. (Bg 13.23)

That's obviously an anecdote. Is there any real evidence that the
police have actually enforced the Law of Karma?

> >Who are the judges appointed to rendering verdicts
> >within its confines?
>
> The demigods.

So where can one watch these judges who hold the title "demigod" as
they render verdicts?

> >Can the general public attend the courts that
> >render verdicts to observe that the process is, indeed, impartial?
>
> Yes, it's called the court of life.

So what is the physical address of this facility that bares the name
"Court of Life?"

> >That's a non-sequitur because that characteristic is a by-product of
> >the active political environment. For the most-part, the laws (at
> >least in countries like Canada) actually are based on justice.
>
> Theoretically, ideally, of course, it is. But practical life tells a
> different story. You can escape the state-law, you can commit a crime
> and never be brought to justice, but you cannot escape the law of
> karma which dictates your destiny.

Actually the RCMP have an amazing track record in this regard too that
the idiom "the Mountie always gets his man" became world-famous.

The funny thing about laws, though, is that prisoners do sometimes find
means of escape, and so anyone who claims that their facility (or
computer system, etc.) is 100% secure is almost certainly wrong if not
just reflecting on a perfect track record from the past.

When it is necessary to enforce a set of laws, it's an indication that
there is a threat of those laws being violated, which also means that
the risk of someone escaping the punishments therein also exists since
it is logical to assume that those who violate the laws probably don't
agree that the laws are justified -- this speaks to motive for
prisoners.

Laws restrict freedoms, and anyone who is restricted by laws is, in a
sense, a prisoner of them regardless of whether they're justified, and
freedom from those restrictions is desired by every prisoner (otherwise
they're just willing slaves).

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Justice is incidental to law and order."
-- J. Edgar Hoover

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Maybe some of those artifacts need to be built in North America.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or
how, but what is extraordinarily important is this; who will count the
votes, and how."
-- Joseph Stalin (on democracy)

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 14:03:22 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 May 2013 06:39:16 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>let me refer to my original post
>>do you theists realize just how damn stupid you makes yourselves look
>>every time you say god or even think about worship or even prayer to a
>>god. any god real or imaginary.
>
>You are arguing from you own incredulity. Bravo :)

are you being serious? do you really want to post this? ok then lets
do this

>
>>Dont you know that if there really was a god and it had enough
>>intelligence to create life that it would NEVER want anyone to worship
>>it BECAUSE of dumbasses like you all that start wars and kill murder
>>and maime innocent people all in the name of you god? I mean just how
>>fucking stupid are all of you?
>
>The only one stupid here is youi. You have to be exceptionally
>brain-dead to be an atheist, atheism relying as it is on totally blind
>belief.

Blind belief? just how many times have you seen god ? oh goodness this
is too easy

>
>"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
>they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton
>
>"Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of
>a universal negative." G.K. Chesterton

this is the definition of dogma..
a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
which is exacctly why athesists are atheists THERE IS NO PROOF OF GOD
. Atheists or anti theists like myself require proof it is you who are
a child of dogma not the atheists

>
>>I mean cmon how much of an idiot are you? all three of those books
>>were written by humans edited censored snipped and cut by other humans
>>for hundreds or even thousands of years. so I say again...
>>ARE YOU A FUCKING IDIOT?
>>think man think use your brain
>
>Like you are doing? hahaha :)

well in fact yes

>
>The difference between you and me is that I have a working brain. I
>know who God is. You are merely some dumbass brainwashed Mickey Mouse
>clone - a product of the most harmful, destructive, ignorant and
>coarse culture to ever grace the planet.

as I said before have you met god? I mean for real you can not know
someone until you meet them. so let me ask you this.. how many
atheists do you know that became a suicide bomber or decided to crash
a plane into a bulding? How many atheists do you know that ever
started a war? if you are not sure the answer would be 0
now how many deaths and wars can be attributed to god? let me help you
out.. ALMOST ALL OF THEM...

>
>---but, but the Coca-cola culture gave us cars, computers and
>mobilesphones, what do you mean? wah wah wah...
>
>
>Who decided that technological expertise is the best method to measure
>our ability to understand the reality we live in? Those who are

uhh the people that actually stayed in school and recieved an
education

<snip rest of crap I sure the hell was not going to read that dumb ass
bs I mean how many lines of data does it take to explain absoultely
nothing>

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 14:57:58 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Blind belief? just how many times have you seen god ? oh goodness this
>is too easy

I see God eavry day.

>uhh the people that actually stayed in school and recieved an
>education

And you did that? hahaha :) Can you prove it?

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5863737145733662418

[Jahnu]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 12:22:33 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>So it's a local law somewhere.

Nope. Bhagavad Gita describes eternal, universal laws. Every living
entities are under the law of karma.

>Here in Canada we abide by Canadian law
>because we're obviously in a different jurisdiction.

As I said, you can escape the juristiction of the state-law, but there
is no escaping the law of karma.

>Where is their administration office or operations facility located?

With Yamaraja, the god of death and punishment. Some say his planet is
pluto.

>That's obviously an anecdote. Is there any real evidence that the
>police have actually enforced the Law of Karma?

The police enforces worldly law. The demigods, especially Yamaraja,
enforces the law of karma.

>So where can one watch these judges who hold the title "demigod" as
>they render verdicts?

In the Vedic scriptures. The enforcement takes place in higher
dimensions, so you wouldn't expect to be able to watch it from your
limited 3-dimensional angle.

>So what is the physical address of this facility that bares the name
>"Court of Life?"

The physical address is the planet of Yamaraja, which I have heard is
the planet Pluto.

>Actually the RCMP have an amazing track record in this regard too that
>the idiom "the Mountie always gets his man" became world-famous.

Whatever, it is as I say.

>Laws restrict freedoms, and anyone who is restricted by laws is, in a
>sense, a prisoner of them regardless of whether they're justified, and
>freedom from those restrictions is desired by every prisoner (otherwise
>they're just willing slaves).

Your freedom is already restrcited from your birth. Your very body is
a restriction placed on your real self, the soul. First and foremost
you are retricted by birth, death, old age and disease.

In a nutshell it can be stated that the better karma the less
restriction and the worse karma the more restriction, but you are
always restricted by your body, no matter how good your karma.

Actually, the soul, being an atomic fragment of God's consciousness,
is originally completely free to enjoy eternity, knowledge and bliss,
but it fell down into the prison house of the material world due to
envy of Krishna. Krishna is so kind that He comes again and again or
sends His representatives to entice us back to the plane of eternity.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5863342259016489922

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:17:34 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 May 2013 14:57:58 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Blind belief? just how many times have you seen god ? oh goodness this
>>is too easy
>
>I see God eavry day.

Oh good god not only are you uneducated you are freakin wacko

and just to let you know you dont see god ever. I mean seriously do
you have to lie to yourself so much in order to keep a belief that you
are not even sure about? Lying to yourself is bad it is just real bad.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:34:14 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:


>With Yamaraja, the god of death and punishment. Some say his planet is
>pluto.
>

dude pluto is no longer a planet

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:34:14 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Nope. Bhagavad Gita describes eternal, universal laws. Every living
>entities are under the law of karma.

And you have a mountain of circular logic to prove.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Immortalist]

On May 15, 10:34 pm, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:08:41 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
>

> atheist goddess" <godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> >Where is this "law of karma" officially documented?
>
> In the Bhagavad Gita.
>
> >Who are the police
> >who enforce it?
>
> Paramatma or the Supersoul - the aspect of God in the hearts of all
> living entities.
>

Because something is told in a story or written down and the herd
believes this or that doesnt make it any truer or falser. So why
should I believe those tribalisms? Doesn't make sense, you say because
they say and then prove what they say by what they say. Deluded mo fo
like some naive Christian.

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 13:38:32 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Oh good god not only are you uneducated you are freakin wacko
>
>and just to let you know you dont see god ever. I mean seriously do
>you have to lie to yourself so much in order to keep a belief that you
>are not even sure about? Lying to yourself is bad it is just real bad.

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be
understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen
directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My
understanding. (Bg 11.54)

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5868151261674923474

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 13:40:10 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>dude pluto is no longer a planet

dude, the only thing you know about PLuto and the rest of the universe
is what a bunch of idiots in white coats told you :)

---but, but, but I read it myself in Illustrated Science, what are you
talking about, you brain-dead cult member? I know shit, I seen it on
TV, wah wah...

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5860559355288579730

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 14:05:36 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

> And you have a mountain of circular logic to prove.

I don't have to prove anything, bozo, especially not to you. The last
thing you want is proof against your idiotic, dogmatic worldview.

But I'll predict the future for you, just watch my mystical power :)

- you'll get sick, old and die...

--but, but, so will you, wah wah, wah

Krishna says:

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never
return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because
they have attained the highest perfection. (Bg 8.15)

Atheists on AA always bitch and moan about proof. Apparently, they
don't have the wits to realize that their own belief system - ie.
that the ultimate cause is purely material - is completely unfounded,
blind belief. Why don't atheists demand proof of that?

But this is the double-standard one is forced to accept as an atheist.
Stone-hard and cold facts are required to give credibility to the
opposition, but when it comes to one's own belief the same demands are
suddenly not required.

And I give you scientific proof - that if you maintain an
atheistic mentality, you will experience a lot more suffering and
frustration in life than if you accept to connect with Krishna. That
is a test anyone can perform and verify that Krishna conciousness
brings greater happiness in life and atheism brings greater misery and
suffering in life. It's as simple as that.

---but, but suffering is not so bad. Without suffering there can't be
happiness.

What you don't understand is that life in the material world is
basically one of suffering and frustration. It is so, because Krishna
has designed it that way. The reason Krishna has designed it that way,
is because if things were perfect in the material world, the fallen,
lost souls would not want to go back to the spiritual world and enjoy
with Krishna. They would want to stay in the material world and enjoy
the body. Actually, this is what most people want, anyway - stay in
the material world and enjoy their senses. Krishna is even so kind,
that a soul in the body of a worm in stool, thinks he is enjoying.
Even the souls living under the most hellish conditions think they are
enjoying.

So the human form of life is a chance for the soul to get rid of all
suffering. A clever person will ask the question, why do I suffer? and
try to get rid of it. The human form of life is a chance for the soul
to get rid of all suffering. Atheism bars the human being from this
opportunity. Atheism just conditions the soul to suffering. Therefore
atheism is evil - Krishna says:

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all
are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But
one who attains to My abode, O son of KuntI, never takes birth again.
(Bg. 8.16)

Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity;
approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness;
self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification;
absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old
age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children,
wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant
events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a
solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting
the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the
Absolute Truth�all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this
whatever there may be is ignorance. (Bg.13. 8-12)

Note. that the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and
disease is one of the symptoms of knowledge. Most people on AA are
intelligent enough to understand they are suffering. Only animals
don't understand they are suffering. In the human form of life the
soul is given sufficient intelligence by nature to understand he is
suffering. Whether you will admit it here, is another matter. But who
cares, if you say you don't suffer, you are either lying or too
animalistic to even comprehend your own suffering.

So anyone who is serious about becoming free from suffering must
surrender to Krishna and God's laws. These laws are explained in the
Vedas.

And anyone who maintains an atheistic mentality will suffer
repeatedly. That's the proof that atheism is bad for you. And anyone
who chants Krishna's name on a regular basis will experience great joy
and happiness in life. That's proof that Krishna is good for you. It's
as simple as that.

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 16:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Because something is told in a story or written down and the herd
>believes this or that doesnt make it any truer or falser. So why
>should I believe those tribalisms?

What's it got to do with me, what you believe? I don't give a shit
what you believe. What I say is only relevant to people who reflect
over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the
eternal plane. So that excludes you...

>Doesn't make sense, you say because
>they say and then prove what they say by what they say. Deluded mo fo
>like some naive Christian.

---but, but I seen it on TV, and I read newspapers. I know shit, I
don't need some old book to tell me what is right and wrong. I live in
an enlightened world. I seen it on TV. I'm enlightened, I know shit...
https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5861362136673043394

Have a look at my art -

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:85tdp81el23tocggp...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 17 May 2013 16:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
> <reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Because something is told in a story or written down and the herd
>>believes this or that doesnt make it any truer or falser. So why
>>should I believe those tribalisms?
>
> What's it got to do with me, what you believe? I don't give a shit
> what you believe. What I say is only relevant to people who reflect
> over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the
> eternal plane. So that excludes you...

It's got to do with you because you always come here desperately trying to
convert people to your expired belief system. You do give a shit or you
wouldn't keep coming back to get your ass stomped. What you say is relevant
to people who shirk life, who want to avoid it, people who swallow "eternal
plane" bull shit. That is you.

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 02:58:02 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>It's got to do with you because you always come here desperately trying to
>convert people to your expired belief system.

What makes you think I come here to covert you? Hare Krishna is only
for the intelligent people, which excludes you. I'm simply here to
kick your scrawny, pimply atheist ass :)... and at the same time offer
a solution to serious seekers of the Absolute Truth. Again, that
excludes you. But one day you will thank me for having subjected you
to the sound of the holy names.

>You do give a shit or you
>wouldn't keep coming back to get your ass stomped.

Is that how it looks to you? Not much happening in the
brain-department, eh? :)

>What you say is relevant
>to people who shirk life, who want to avoid it, people who swallow "eternal
>plane" bull shit. That is you.

What I say is relevant to people who want to end all suffering and
get out of the ocean of birth and death. Feel free to ignore me...

The Vishnu-dhutas say:

One who chants the holy name of the Lord is immediately freed from the
reactions of unlimited sins, even if he chants indirectly [to indicate
something else], jokingly, for musical entertainment, or even
neglectfully. This is accepted by all the learned scholars of the
scriptures.

-- Srimad Bhagavatam, 6.2.14

[Immortalist]

On May 17, 8:34 pm, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 16:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
>

> <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Because something is told in a story or written down and the herd
> >believes this or that doesnt make it any truer or falser. So why
> >should I believe those tribalisms?
>
> What's it got to do with me, what you believe? I don't give a shit
> what you believe. What I say is only relevant to people who reflect
> over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the
> eternal plane. So that excludes you...
>

You claim that what you say is only relevant to people who reflect

over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the

eternal plane and then went on mumbling about some stupid shit that
excludes me, but you forgot to provide any reason why anyone should
believe that? Are we to just take your word and accept it? Maybe you
should learn a little philosophy before you come play with us. Then
again you might actually knowmsomemphilosophy but are hiding that act
real good, convinced me you don't know any at all, bravo.

> >Doesn't make sense, you say because
> >they say and then prove what they say by what they say. Deluded mo fo
> >like some naive Christian.
>
> ---but, but I seen it on TV, and I read newspapers. I know shit, I
> don't need some old book to tell me what is right and wrong. I live in

> an enlightened world. I seen it on TV. I'm enlightened, I know shit...https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#586136213667...

>
> Have a look at my art -
>

[Immortalist]

On May 17, 11:58 pm, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
> "Jahnu" <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Ah forget that chump, he got the nerve to publish his words in a
philosophy group and he appears to not even know a lick of philosophy.
He argues for Hinduism but doesn't even understand how that philosophy
works. Here we are, us good atheists, having to teach these religious
ass wipe losers how to talk about their own life way, sick.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/hindu-ph/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_philosophy

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>You claim that what you say is only relevant to people who reflect
>over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the
>eternal plane and then went on mumbling about some stupid shit that
>excludes me, but you forgot to provide any reason why anyone should
>believe that?

You must have me confused with someone who gives a shit what you
believe. Didn't you hear what I just said? What I have to say is only
relevant for people who want to end all suffering and get out of the
ocean of birth and death. IOW it's for people who are interested in
finding out the real meaning of human life. That excludes you.

>Are we to just take your word and accept it?

Nope, you'll have first hand experience of the fact that life is full
of suffering. Or talk to the meat-industry, they'll tell you all about
it... or maybe they won't.

>Maybe you
>should learn a little philosophy before you come play with us. Then
>again you might actually knowmsomemphilosophy but are hiding that act
>real good, convinced me you don't know any at all, bravo.

Krishna says:

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never
return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because
they have attained the highest perfection. (Bg 8.15)

Have a look at my art -

[Ken]

The Vishnu-dhutas say: "Jahnu is SO full of shit, he stinks even
worse than the Ganges River

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:g4oep893bk59dpafc...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 02:58:02 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>>It's got to do with you because you always come here desperately trying to
>>convert people to your expired belief system.
>
> What makes you think I come here to covert you?

The fact that you're a brain dead theist hanging out in alt.atheism.

>Hare Krishna is only
> for the intelligent people, which excludes you. I'm simply here to
> kick your scrawny, pimply atheist ass :)... and at the same time offer
> a solution to serious seekers of the Absolute Truth. Again, that
> excludes you. But one day you will thank me for having subjected you
> to the sound of the holy names.

Intelligent people don't believe in magic pixies. Hare is a magic pixie. So
you better rethink your fat ass position, because you are in no position to
enlighten anyone, you are simply suffering from delusions of grandeur. I'll
thank you to take your krishna crap and stay out of alt.atheism, after
subjecting me to your endless stream of bullshit.

>
>>You do give a shit or you
>>wouldn't keep coming back to get your ass stomped.
>
> Is that how it looks to you? Not much happening in the
> brain-department, eh? :)

That's the consensus here, you're brain dead and rely on some dusty old
bullshit, you cut and paste it and pretend that that makes you intelligent.
You're wrong.

>
>>What you say is relevant
>>to people who shirk life, who want to avoid it, people who swallow
>>"eternal
>>plane" bull shit. That is you.
>
> What I say is relevant to people who want to end all suffering and
> get out of the ocean of birth and death. Feel free to ignore me...

You don't want to end suffering you liar, you are rude and pompous, you are
just too stupid to realize it. You're just another wanker with a jesus
pose, another loser wannabe.

Have a look at yourself, fool:

http://tinyurl.com/cjoya5o

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:31:29 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>The fact that you're a brain dead theist hanging out in alt.atheism.

The Hare Krishna mission has two goals. One is to fight materialism,
humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,
that when you conduct an ideological war against the most prevalent
reality-view of the times, you are not going to be popular. But if we
have a little historical awareness, we know that the truth-sayers in
any society have always been a hate minority.

The second part of the Hare Krishna mission is to offer the method by
which to know God as He is. The Vedic process is an elaborate system
of knowlede, but it all begins with the chanting of the name of the
Supreme Lord.

Please note, that this is not a sectarian process. We don't say that
Jehovah, Allah, or Buddha are wrong. We say that one should chant
Their names. In Hare Krishna we chant the Hare Krishna mantra, but we
don't say it is wrong to recite the names of God in other traditions.
The principle is to chant God's name. The specific name is a detail,
It is a universal, recognized process. In the standard prayer of the
Church it says, hallowed be thy name. In the Bible it urges one to
praise the name of the Lord from sun-rise to sun-set. The rosary has
the same amount of beads as the mala, or prayer-beads used in Hare
Krishna - 108. Muslems also use a mala or prayer beads. So to chant
the names of the Lord is the recommended process for this age in all
religions to connect with the Supreme Lord.

In the Upanishads it is stated that the Hare Krishna mantra is the
only function in this present age of Kali. That is not to be
understood in a sectarian way. It is to be understood, that the only
authorized process of religion or yoga for this age, is to chant the
holy names of the Lord - Krishna, Jehovah, Allah, or whatever. It is
the only process that will work for this age.

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

"The above mantra consisting of 32 words and 16 syllables is the only
thing that can protect against the evil influence of Kali. After
searching through all the Vedas we will find no more sublime method of
religion."

(Kali-santarana Upanishad)

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:50ffp8tq8vkknnc81...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:31:29 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>>The fact that you're a brain dead theist hanging out in alt.atheism.
>
> The Hare Krishna mission has two goals. One is to fight materialism,

You're stuck in a material world, with your material computer that you use
to cut and paste posts and "art".

> humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,
> that when you conduct an ideological war against the most prevalent
> reality-view of the times, you are not going to be popular. But if we
> have a little historical awareness, we know that the truth-sayers in
> any society have always been a hate minority.

You "truth-sayers" are a dime a dozen, trouble is you all talk a different
"truth". Probability is that you are all taking nonsense.

>
> The second part of the Hare Krishna mission is to offer the method by
> which to know God as He is. The Vedic process is an elaborate system
> of knowlede, but it all begins with the chanting of the name of the
> Supreme Lord.

Nope, it's a system of faith, just like all the rest, based on human hopes,
fears, and aspirations.

>
> Please note, that this is not a sectarian process.

Bollocks.

<unjustified blather snipped>

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:40 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>Nope, it's a system of faith, just like all the rest, based on human hopes,
>fears, and aspirations.

Wrong. Hare Krishna presents a scientific process of knowledge.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt. (Bg 7.1)

[Tim]

"Jahnu" <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:66jfp85ngqudkn5hv...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:40 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>>Nope, it's a system of faith, just like all the rest, based on human
>>hopes,
>>fears, and aspirations.
>
> Wrong. Hare Krishna presents a scientific process of knowledge.

LOL! You have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance of science and complete
lack of knowledge, you might be bull shitting yourself, but you aren't
fooling me.

>
> Krishna says:
>
> Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
> of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
> doubt. (Bg 7.1)

Tim says:

That's got nothing to do with science or knowledge, imbecile.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 13:20:26 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>What makes you think I come here to covert you? Hare Krishna is only
>for the intelligent people, which excludes you. I'm simply here to
>kick your scrawny, pimply atheist ass :)... and at the same time offer
>a solution to serious seekers of the Absolute Truth. Again, that
>excludes you. But one day you will thank me for having subjected you
>to the sound of the holy names.
>

OMFG you did not just say it is for intelligent people did you? ya
know I wont even go there.. That is just so ludicris

>>You do give a shit or you
>>wouldn't keep coming back to get your ass stomped.
>
>Is that how it looks to you? Not much happening in the
>brain-department, eh? :)

That is sure as hell what it looks like to me hell I stomped your ass
in a previous thread

>
>>What you say is relevant
>>to people who shirk life, who want to avoid it, people who swallow "eternal
>>plane" bull shit. That is you.
>
>What I say is relevant to people who want to end all suffering and
>get out of the ocean of birth and death. Feel free to ignore me...

are you preaching mass suicide? that is the only way to end all
suffering


<snip preaching crap>

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 19:37:13 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:31:29 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>>The fact that you're a brain dead theist hanging out in alt.atheism.
>
>The Hare Krishna mission has two goals. One is to fight materialism,
>humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,

no it has one goal and that is to make money and that is done by
introducing yet another false god into this world

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:40 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:

>> humanism and atheism in all their different aspects. It is obvious,
>> that when you conduct an ideological war against the most prevalent
>> reality-view of the times, you are not going to be popular. But if we
>> have a little historical awareness, we know that the truth-sayers in
>> any society have always been a hate minority.
>
>You "truth-sayers" are a dime a dozen, trouble is you all talk a different
>"truth". Probability is that you are all taking nonsense.

no he is for sure 100 % full of shit. He doesnt even know what he is
preaching is a lie and that makes it all that much worse. But I guess
it is not his fault that his parents lied to him for so many years or
that his life was so bad that the only choice he had to bring him out
of his eternal depression was to believe in something that does not
exist.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 20:50:15 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:19:40 -0400, "Tim" <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
>>Nope, it's a system of faith, just like all the rest, based on human hopes,
>>fears, and aspirations.
>
>Wrong. Hare Krishna presents a scientific process of knowledge.
>
>Krishna says:
>
>Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
>of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
>doubt. (Bg 7.1)
>

Dude what the hell are you ranting about? That makes no sense to the
topic of the post. yoga is not science fool

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 15:40:28 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:


>You must have me confused with someone who gives a shit what you
>believe. Didn't you hear what I just said? What I have to say is only
>relevant for people who want to end all suffering and get out of the
>ocean of birth and death. IOW it's for people who are interested in
>finding out the real meaning of human life. That excludes you.

Then why do you post to these groups? <alt.atheism,alt.philosophy> I
mean besides the fact that you hope that maybe someone will listen to
you believe you and send you money.
Let me ask you one simple question and if you can answer it with
anykind of sense then I will leave you alone. The question is
ARE YOU A FUCKING IDIOT?

>Nope, you'll have first hand experience of the fact that life is full
>of suffering. Or talk to the meat-industry, they'll tell you all about
>it... or maybe they won't.

people live people die people struggle people strife no matter what
you are preaching <Unless it is mass suicide> then there will always
be suffering. Idiot...

>Krishna says:
>
>After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never
>return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because
>they have attained the highest perfection. (Bg 8.15)

Does this guy open up his book of fairy tales and just decide to
plagerise something randomly that has nothing to do with anything
relevant with anything in this universe. I mean even though the bible
is another fairy tale at least it has a basic primise and story you
can kinda follow.

[Immortalist]

On May 18, 6:40 am, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
>

> <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >You claim that what you say is only relevant to people who reflect
> >over life, people who want to end all suffering and go back to the
> >eternal plane and then went on mumbling about some stupid shit that
> >excludes me, but you forgot to provide any reason why anyone should
> >believe that?
>
> You must have me confused with someone who gives a shit what you
> believe. Didn't you hear what I just said? What I have to say is only
> relevant for people who want to end all suffering and get out of the
> ocean of birth and death. IOW it's for people who are interested in
> finding out the real meaning of human life. That excludes you.
>

You forgot to provide any evidence for your insane predictions about
what I believe or not.

Again, why should anyone believe that horse shit you preach about
Hindu religion?

> >Are we to just take your word and accept it?
>
> Nope, you'll have first hand experience of the fact that life is full
> of suffering. Or talk to the meat-industry, they'll tell you all about
> it... or maybe they won't.
>

If the world is full of suffering how does that justify what Krishna
said? You need to learn some logic idiot you don't make no sense.

> >Maybe you
> >should learn a little philosophy before you come play with us. Then
> >again you might actually knowmsomemphilosophy but are hiding that act
> >real good, convinced me you don't know any at all, bravo.
>
> Krishna says:
>

Why should anyone believe what Krishna said? Any reason at all?

> After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never
> return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because
> they have attained the highest perfection. (Bg 8.15)
>
> Have a look at my art -
>

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 15:56:29 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 13:20:26 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What makes you think I come here to covert you? Hare Krishna is only
>>for the intelligent people, which excludes you. I'm simply here to
>>kick your scrawny, pimply atheist ass :)... and at the same time offer
>>a solution to serious seekers of the Absolute Truth. Again, that
>>excludes you. But one day you will thank me for having subjected you
>>to the sound of the holy names.
>>
>OMFG you did not just say it is for intelligent people did you? ya
>know I wont even go there.. That is just so ludicris

He just admitted that he is a psychopath.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <khqfp85d95boam2nl...@4ax.com>,

bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 13:20:26 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What makes you think I come here to covert you? Hare Krishna is only
> >for the intelligent people, which excludes you. I'm simply here to
> >kick your scrawny, pimply atheist ass :)... and at the same time offer
> >a solution to serious seekers of the Absolute Truth. Again, that
> >excludes you. But one day you will thank me for having subjected you
> >to the sound of the holy names.
> >
> OMFG you did not just say it is for intelligent people did you? ya
> know I wont even go there.. That is just so ludicris

Ludicrous.

Ludicris is a rapper.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:03:42 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Dude what the hell are you ranting about? That makes no sense to the
>topic of the post. yoga is not science fool

Yoga is the science of connecting with God.

Krishna says:

Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O
Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and
among logicians I am the conclusive truth. (Bg 10.32)

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt. (Bg 7.1)

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 15:58:56 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>no it has one goal and that is to make money and that is done by
>introducing yet another false god into this world

Because you say so? hahaha :)

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5862110607154152834

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 18:27:18 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>Ludicrous.
>
>Ludicris is a rapper.

What can you expect from a piece of trailer-park trash like that? :)

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5859297251504637186

[Jahnu]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:50:29 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>You forgot to provide any evidence for your insane predictions about
>what I believe or not.

So pray tell me, what do you believe?

>Again, why should anyone believe that horse shit you preach about
>Hindu religion?

I told you, what I preach is only relevant to sincere seekers of the
Absolute Truth.

>Why should anyone believe what Krishna said? Any reason at all?

Because they are interested in knowing God? Because Krishna delivers
the most profound, scientific and detailed explanation of reality
known to mankind?

Krishna says:

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall
deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. (1Bg 18.66)

Have a look at my art -

[Immortalist]

On May 19, 4:03 am, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:50:29 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
>

> <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >You forgot to provide any evidence for your insane predictions about
> >what I believe or not.
>
> So pray tell me, what do you believe?
>

Interesting comment. I pass.

> >Again, why should anyone believe that horse shit you preach about
> >Hindu religion?
>
> I told you, what I preach is only relevant to sincere seekers of the
> Absolute Truth.
>
> >Why should anyone believe what Krishna said? Any reason at all?
>
> Because they are interested in knowing God? Because Krishna delivers
> the most profound, scientific and detailed explanation of reality
> known to mankind?
>
> Krishna says:
>
> Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall
> deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. (1Bg 18.66)
>
> Have a look at my art -
>

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 06:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Interesting comment. I pass.

No wonder you are embarrassed to state your belief, coward.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5863342250068962658

Have a look at my art -

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 12:55:02 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:03:42 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Dude what the hell are you ranting about? That makes no sense to the
>>topic of the post. yoga is not science fool
>
>Yoga is the science of connecting with God.

There are no god(s), so your statement is false.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Father Haskell]

On May 19, 6:55 am, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yoga is the science of connecting with God.

Please kick him forcefully and heartily in the balls if
you succeed.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 12:55:02 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:03:42 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Dude what the hell are you ranting about? That makes no sense to the
>>topic of the post. yoga is not science fool
>
>Yoga is the science of connecting with God.

Damn who lied to you? Damn you are seriously fucked up. Alls I can
say is I am sorry for what has happed to you in the past.

>
>Krishna says:
>
>Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O
>Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and
>among logicians I am the conclusive truth. (Bg 10.32)
>
>Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
>of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
>doubt. (Bg 7.1)

You keep posting the krishna but I can assuredly tell you what exactly
the krishna says.
The krishna says nothing at all. zip zilch noda nil....

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:03:13 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Again, why should anyone believe that horse shit you preach about
>>Hindu religion?
>
>I told you, what I preach is only relevant to sincere seekers of the
>Absolute Truth.
>

ok genius tell me why you are posting to the ,alt.atheism group then.
I mean someone who has found god through exercise must be incredibly
smart.

>>Why should anyone believe what Krishna said? Any reason at all?
>
>Because they are interested in knowing God? Because Krishna delivers
>the most profound, scientific and detailed explanation of reality
>known to mankind?

Dude Snow White chances are is more accurate than your krishna

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 12:55:02 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:03:42 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Dude what the hell are you ranting about? That makes no sense to the
>>topic of the post. yoga is not science fool
>
>Yoga is the science of connecting with God.

Through exercise. nuff said

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:19:33 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

> There are no god(s), so your statement is false.

I'm sure in the Mickey Mouse world you are stuck in, there are no
gods. In the real world God exists.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton

"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only
proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful
Being." - Isaac Newton

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 14:29:07 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Through exercise. nuff said

You mean, your fat and ugly trailer-park-trash mom didn't tell you
what yoga means? :)

The word yoga has the same meaning as the word religion. The latin
word religion means to re-connect, and the Sanskrit word yoga means to
connect. Thus the words yoga and religion mean the same.

Modern people, especially uneducated red-necks like yourself, think
yoga simply means exercise, but the real meaning of yoga is to
connect. The English word yoke has the same meaning. Anyway, let me
tell you about yoga.

ASTANGA YOGA AND KUNDALINI RISING

The path of the classical yoga system described in the Vedic tradition
is long and severe. This system is called astanga yoga, or the
eightfold yoga system, and was conceived by the ancient sage,
Patanjali. It is a scientific, psychic method to gradually raise the
consciousness to higher levels of awareness, culminating in Samadhi,
which is the stage where the self, realizing its own true nature,
leaves its mortal shell and enters its liberated state. The eight
progressive steps of the astanga yoga system are called yama, niyama,
asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, and samadhi, and in the
following I will loosely describe each one, and then contrast it to
bhakti-yoga.

The first two principles, yama and niyama, are the do's and the
don'ts, and they are applicable not only in yoga but in all conditions
of life, for regardless of whether one aims at success in material or
spiritual life the key-word is renunciation. No one can have their
wishes fulfilled or reach their life's goal without being to some
degree renounced. Our practical lives confirm this. I remember as a
child I had a friend who would save up his pocket money. Instead of
spending it all on sweets and cinema trips, like the rest of us would
invariably do, he would hold back and eventually had saved up enough
money to buy a stereo equipment. I was most impressed by this. As far
as I was concerned it was an almost unfathomable feat, because I could
never save my money. I always spent everything I had at once.

Later in life this same friend went on to make a successful career and
become a doctor. While his friends were out partying and having fun,
he would remain at home to study and prepare for exams. I realized
then, that if one wants to obtain success in the long run, he will
have to renounce many short-term pleasures. To work towards a better
position in adult life one has to forego many of the immediate
pleasures one is often pushed to pursue in youthful life. In other
words, one has to be renounced. One has to be able to control one's
senses. Without sense control there is no possibility of success
neither in material nor spiritual life.

To control the senses is the preliminary aim of any genuine yoga
system, and in astanga yoga this is accomplished in a very diligent
and systematic way. Yama, the first step, refers to the things one
should avoid that would hinder attainment of the goal. Niyama, the
second step, refers to the beneficial undertakings one has to undergo
to reach the higher goal, Niyama, which constitutes the positive
things to be done like daily meditations, rituals, and exercise,
contributes to attaining the ultimate goal of yoga, which is union
with the Supreme. And yama is the things one must avoid as
unbeneficial for one's advancement on the path of yoga. Illicit sex,
TV, movies, intoxication, and certain foodstuffs like meat, fish and
eggs, pollute the consciousness and distract the attention away from
the self and places it instead on the bodily demands and other
externals.

One of the crucial things that a yogi must avoid at all costs in
astanga yoga is sex. It is not possible to advance in this system
unless one practices complete abstinence. In ordinary mundane life
pleasures are mostly pursued outside of ourselves. We search for
happiness in the body or mind by connecting the senses with objects
outside of ourselves like things or other bodies, or we seek mental
gratification in the form of name, fame, distinction, and power. The
astanga yoga system, however, gives entrance to the deeper pleasures
that lies within the soul. But before one can access this hidden
pleasure one has to restrain the senses from their engagement in the
external world. In other words, in the yoga system, the happiness
sought after is not the happiness that arises from sense
gratification. Sense gratification is not considered genuine
happiness, because it invariably leads to suffering.

"An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti,
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does
not delight in them."
(Bg 5.22)

This brings us to the next and third step - asana, also known to most
westerners as Hatha-yoga. This is the discipline that prepares the
body to remain in different postures for long periods of time. The
side-effects of this discipline is a healthy and a slim body, but the
real purpose is to gradually train up the body to enable it to remain
in the same position for hours or days and eventually even months and
years. Before one can sit in the lotus position for hours and days
without shifting and being uncomfortable, there is for instance no
possibility of a successful rising of the kundalini. The concept of
kundalini we will come back to later, as it is an integral part of the
astanga yoga system.

After the yogi has trained the body to master the asanas or the
hatha-yoga system, which will take years and years of practice, he
will begin to work on his breathing. This next step is called
pranayama. The aim of pranayama is, simply speaking, to gradually
lower the breathing cycle. It is said in the Vedic tradition that the
life span of all living entities is measured out in number of breaths.
By lowering the breathing cycle the yogi can, according to how
accomplished he becomes in this discipline, prolong his life span
significantly with years or even decades or centuries. This is
necessary as it takes a long time to become adept in the different
disciplines of the astanga yoga system.

There is a story in the Srimad Bhagavatam of a kshatriya prince named
Dhruva Maharaja who went to the forest and took to this practice in
order to meet Vishnu. He was practicing yoga very determinedly
minimizing his food intake, so that at one point he was eating only
leaves. Then he was standing on one leg and practicing pranayama,
gradually lowering his breathing cycle to the point of inhaling and
exhaling only once in 6 months. To ordinary folks this may seem
fantastic, but considering that Maha-Vishnu is breathing in and out
once, as He is exhaling and then inhaling all the universes, over a
period of 311.04 trillion years (which is the total lifespan of the
universe), it is an insignificant span of time. As always Krishna
reigns supreme and shows the way, even in pranayama. If a yogi should
ever become proud of his ability to maintain his breathing cycle at
extremely long spans of time, he may refer to Maha-vishnu's breathing
cycle of 311.04 trillion years, and have his pride curbed.

The aim of pranayama, however, is not to prolong one's lifespan. The
real aim is to be able to sit in trance and meditate, first on the
life airs and chakras, then on the inner self and finally on the
Supersoul within the heart. By gradually extending the breathing cycle
one can subdue the actions of the body and mind. When the mind becomes
still one can turn it from being engaged in the external world to
being focused within. We all know the expression, take a deep breath,
to calm the mind. It actually works. After the yogi has mastered his
breathing by being able to offer the outgoing breath into the
incoming, he is ready to proceed to the next step in the astanga yoga
process called pratyahara - the stage where the senses are being
withdrawn from all external engagements.

What happens at that point is that the awareness of the self, who is
usually observing the physical world through the senses, is being
diverted to the inner world of the mind. The senses which are absorbed
in the objects and relationships of the physical world are being
forced to retract and instead focus on the inner, psychic world. The
world of the mind is very fine and subtle. Some people call it the
astral plane. In pratyahara the consciousness of the self goes from
being absorbed in the external physical plane to being absorbed in the
internal psychic plane. Transcendental to or above both these planes
is the plane of pure consciousness, and it is towards that the yogi is
striving.

Through further hard practice, when the yogi is able to maintain the
focus of his consciousness on the inner world of the mind, he
progresses to the state of dharana. This is the state where the senses
have been completely withdrawn from the physical world and is totally
fixed on the inner, subtle world of the mind. On this platform all
sensual engagements have ceased, and one is only perceiving the mind.

There is no more any sound, touch, form, taste or smell. Any awareness
of the external world has ceased to exist. When one can maintain this
state of inner focus it is called dharana. It is not until one reaches
the dharana state, ie. Is able to maintain complete inner focus and
has ceased all awareness of the external world, that dhyana, or
meditation arises. In the modern world we use the word meditation
cheaply to describe almost any kind of mental state. Some people even
think that to just sit down and relax and let the mind wander is
meditation, or if they are a little more advanced they think that
focusing on a flame or a ring on the wall for five minutes is
meditation, but we should note that in the classical yoga system
described in the Vedic tradition meditation does not take place before
one is able to completely cease all external sensual engagements and
focus the consciousness on the self. Then and only then can one
progress to the state of dhyana or meditation.

Now the yogi begins to meditate. It is then that he discovers his
soul. The soul is the real observer within, and now the soul finally
observes its own self as an illuminating particle of consciousness.
The yogi now understands that this is his real self, and further more,
besides himself situated in his heart, he sees the Supersoul, Sri
Krishna Who lives in the heart of all living entities. Sometimes due
to insufficient knowledge or pride the yogi will mistake the Supersoul
for his own self, thus thinking that he, the yogi, is the Supreme
self. If he makes that mistake he will not reach Vaikuntha but will go
no further than impersonal Brahman.

Thus when the yogi discovers God in his heart he can either maintain a
humble position and surrender to Him, or he can reach any goal he
desires within his mind up to liberation from the material world. This
is the final test of the yogi - he can either become a god, or merge
with Brahman, or he can become God's servant. What ever he chooses at
that point he will attain. This state is called Samadhi, the final
goal of his meditation. It is then the yogi is ready to leave his
body. Some people call this the rising of the kundalini. At this point
the yogi with violent force pushes his soul out through the top of his
cranium, and whatever his consciousness is fixed on at precisely that
moment, that is where the soul will go. The energy that is released at
this point is so immense that the body combusts into fire.

It is not until one has reached the state of Samadhi, in which the
consciosness is totally withdrawn from the external world, that one
can begin to raise the kundalini. What happens is that the yogi pushes
the life-airs up from the mula-chakra, the lowest chakra, gradually up
through the other chakras of the body until it reaches the heart
chakra. Here the soul is picked up from its seat there and is pushed
further up to the top chakra at the top of ones head. This pushing of
the life-airs, the prana, up through the different chakras of the body
is what constitutes a kundalini rising.

As the kundalini is rising the pressure inside the body becomes so
great that the yogi now must use the asana and pranayama techniques he
practiced and learned at an earlier stage to block all holes in body
lest the soul should escape through any one of them. In the Vedas the
body has been called the city of nine gates. There are nine holes in
the body - anus, genital, two nostrils, two ear holes, and two eyes.
Already at the asana step the yogi learns to block all these holes
from within as he raises the kundalini.

As we can see, this type of yoga is very hard to practice in the
modern age. One can only imagine what could happen if this is
practiced in an apartment in the city. One might very well burn down
the whole apartment. Therefore the yogis of yore would go to the
forest to practice astanga yoga and leave their bodies. We learn from
the Srimad Bhagavatam that when King Dhritarastha went to the forest
to leave his body in this way, he started a whole forest fire. It was
into this fire that his wife Gandhari and the mother of the Pandavas,
queen Kunti, entered together to gain release from their mortal
bodies.

Contrary to this severe practice, which is not recommended for the
people of Kali-yuga, we find the simple sublime method of chanting the
Hare Krishna maha mantra, which will yield exactly the same if not
greater results, and which can be practiced anywhere, even in an
apartment down town. In fact, a person can benefit more from chanting
the holy names of the Lord sitting in an inner city apartment than he
can gain from sitting in the Himalayas practicing astanga yoga for
100.000 years, which was the general lifespan of people in satya-yuga,
when this practice was the norm. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita
that all results that can be obtained from practicing any kind of yoga
or dharma automatically befall one who practices bhakti-yoga.


"A person who accepts the path of devotional service is not bereft of
the results derived from studying the Vedas, performing sacrifices,
undergoing austerities, giving charity or pursuing philosophical and
fruitive activities. Simply by performing devotional service, he
attains all these, and at the end he reaches the supreme eternal
abode." (Bg 8.28)

It is further stated in the Srimad Bhagavatam that the results of the
astanga yoga process practiced millions of years ago in satya-yuga can
very easily be obtained in this present age of Kali simply by chanting
the hole names of Krishna:

"Whatever result was obtained in Satya-yuga by meditating on Visnu, in
Treta-yuga by performing sacrifices, and in Dvapara-yuga by serving
the Lord's lotus feet can be obtained in Kali-yuga simply by chanting
the Hare Krsna maha-mantra." (SB 12.3.52)

In this present age of Kali people are simply too disturbed to sit
down and practice the ancient yoga system. Maybe a few yogis can still
go into the Himalyas and sit in seclusion in a mountain cave and
practice this system, but for the people in general it is not
possible, nor are there any qualified teachers who can guide a serious
student in this yoga process. The fundamental difference between the
astanga yoga system and the bhakti-yoga system is that in the first,
the yogi is trying to elevate himself by his own mental and
intellectual endeavors. In bhakti-yoga we ask Krishna to pick us up
and carry us back to Him.

Srila Prabhupada has likened it to the cat and monkey. The baby monkey
holds on to its mother by its own strength. When the female monkey
jumps around from tree to tree it happens quite often that her baby
looses its grip and falls to the ground. The baby kitten, on the other
hand, is carried to safety by its mother, depending solely on her
strength. In the same way, the bhakti-yogi depends solely on Krishna.
He knows very well he is powerless without the mercy of Krishna. The
astanga yogi is struggling to cross over the materiel ocean of
suffering by his own powers, and even then he is not guaranteed
success. But someone who surrenders to Krishna can very easily cross
over nescience.

daivi hy esa guna-mayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material
nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto
Me can easily cross beyond it." (Bg 7.14)

Krishna helps His devotee to reach the final goal, and that it
infinitely more easy and secure than manipulating the life airs and
chakras of the body to press out the soul of the top of the head at
the final moment.

[casey]

On 19 May, 04:03, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]

> Krishna delivers
> the most profound, scientific and detailed explanation of reality
> known to mankind?

Scientific? Detailed? So how come your vaisnava mob
haven't come up with anything you could patent from
this profound explanation of reality?

Or is it an alternate reality which conveniently can't
demonstrate any up to now unknown insights into
how the known world works in order demonstrate the
power of its "explanations" the way modern science
is able to demonstrate its powers of explanation?

What modern technology has the vaisnava mob
given to society to demonstrate this supposed
knowledge of reality?

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:53:27 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:19:33 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> There are no god(s), so your statement is false.
>
>I'm sure in the Mickey Mouse world you are stuck in, there are no
>gods. In the real world God exists.

It's mythology, bitch. In the real world asshole's believe in all
sorts of delusional idiocy. From dancing around in gay attire to
strapping bombs to their chest. It's unproven nonsense stupid monkeys
do.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 14:26:38 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>ok genius tell me why you are posting to the ,alt.atheism group then.
>I mean someone who has found god through exercise must be incredibly
>smart.

You mean your fat and ugly trailer-park-trash mom didn't tell you what
yoga means? Good grief...

According to the Vedic Version God has 3 main energies - the internal
potency, which manifests the eternal, spiritual world; the external
potency, which manifests the material world, and the intermediate
potency, which is the individual souls. The soul is called
tatastha-shakti, or intermediate potency because it can be under the
influence of either Krishna's internal, spiritual potency or His
external potency, the material world. The soul posseses a minute
degree of free will in that it can choose to be ruled by Krishna's
internal potency or by His external potency. The soul is never
independent like God, it is always governed.

The soul is an atomic particle of God's consciousness and cannot exist
in an independent state, much like the spark cannot exist without the
fire. The soul is always dependent. It will be ruled by Krishna either
directly through His internal potency or indirectly through His
external, material potency - Maya.

When the soul is governed by by Krishna's spiritual potency, it exists
in its original, eternal position of knowledge and bliss. When it is
governed by Krishna's material energy - Maya - the soul exists in
forgetfulness and ignorance about its real position, thinking that it
is its physical body and mind.

Bhakti-yoga, or devotion to God, is the scientific method of leading
the soul back from its present deluded condition, back to its original
position as part of Krishna's spiritual energy.

And that is also religion. The word re-ligio, from Latin, means to
re-connect. We know the word lego, which means 'I connect'. So
religion is not just some sectarian belief in God, like less
intelligent people like to assert, it is a process by which to connect
to God.

The same word in Sanskrit is yoga, which means to connect or to unite.
Again, we know that from the English word yoke, as in 'he yoked the
horse to the wagon'. So yoga or religion is the science of uniting
with God.

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:01:58 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

> It's mythology, bitch. In the real world asshole's believe in all
>sorts of delusional idiocy. From dancing around in gay attire to
>strapping bombs to their chest. It's unproven nonsense stupid monkeys
>do.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>Scientific? Detailed? So how come your vaisnava mob
>haven't come up with anything you could patent from
>this profound explanation of reality?

Patent? hahaha :) What would that prove?

Krishna says:

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the
non-existent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the
eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by
studying the nature of both. (Bg. 2.16)

So according to Krishna's definition, reality is that which is eternal
and unreality, or illusion, is that which is temporary. Note that
illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not
eternal. Someone may object - if I smash my head into a wall, the pain
I feel is very real. How can it not be real? But if seen in the light
of eternity it is not real. Illusion exists, but the reason it is not
considered real is because it is not eternal. It's like a dream. A
dream happens, but when we wake up, we understand it was not real.
Life in a material body is like that - dream-like. We'll realize that,
if not before, then at the time of death. Death will be a rude
awakening for the atheist.

So reality and illusion is defined by time. One is eternal the other
is temporary. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Anything
seen in the light of eternity will be manifested for such a short
time, that it is as if it didn't really happen.

Brahma, the god of creation, is said to live as long as the universe
lasts - which is calculated to be 311,043 trillion solar years. So if
you live for such an unfathomable length of time, then imagine what a
person's life-span on earth of, say, 80 years must look like. I don't
even live for a second from Brahma's point of view. How real would a
person be to you if he existed for only a second? Think about it.

If you take 80 years out of 311,042 trillion years it is such a
miniscule portion of time, that for all practical purposes it might as
well not have happened. But then, if you take Brahma's lifespan and
compare it to eternal time, it is just as little. However long time is
taken out of eternal time, it still amounts to nothing. The duration
of the universe will make a lifespan on earth seem completely
insignificant, and the cosmic time of millions, billions, and
trillions of years seem totally inconsequential and insignificant from
the point of view of eternal time. So from the point of view of
eternity, anything that is not eternal is but an illusory glimpse.

That's how one can understand that anything which has a beginning and
an end is illusory. Only that which is eternal is real. Now, in this
world, what is then real, someone might ask. We don't have any
experience of something that lasts forever, do we? Yes we do. The only
thing, that lasts forever is the soul - ie. consciousness. The soul is
eternal, so in the material world the only real thing is the soul,
everything else is temporary and thus illusory.

That's why self-realization, according to Vaishnava theology, means to
realize one's eternal self beyond the temporary body and mind. Krishna
gives a brilliant argument in the Bhagavad Gita to help a thoughtful
person experience his eternal self. A person's body goes through
different stages of infancy, childhood, youth, old age and finally
death. But during all these changes of the body and the mind, the self
(the inner sense of I-feeling) or the inner observer remains constant.
That's one way we can logically understand we are eternal.

The human life-form is unique in the sense that it allows the self to
understand its own eternality. So the purpose of human life is to
connect with the eternal self. If one is simply absorbed in the body
and its demands, one is wasting this valuable opportunity - an
opportunity that is only available in the human life-form. Eating,
sleeping, mating and defending, the soul can do in any life-form, but
only in the human form can the self connect with eternity, ie.
reality.

Krishna says:

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these
kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. (Bg 2.12)

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood
to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at
death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change. (Bg 2.13)

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)

[casey]

On 19 May, 22:30, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT), casey
>

> <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >Scientific? Detailed? So how come your vaisnava mob
> >haven't come up with anything you could patent from
> >this profound explanation of reality?
>
> Patent? hahaha :) What would that prove?

It would prove they had detailed knowledge of
the reality behind the world we live in. There
would be no need for an actual patent just a
paper showing how to build something like
a touch screen, a semiconductor, a laser,
and so on. You know, all those things that
would be easy for anyone with a *detailed*
knowledge of reality.

>
> Krishna says:

> So according to Krishna's definition, reality is that which is eternal
> and unreality, or illusion, is that which is temporary.

Sure. And a *detailed* understanding of that "eternal"
would enable you to have built semiconductors,
lasers, touch screens and antibiotics in the illusionary
world the rest of us know as everything physical.

> Note that
> illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not
> eternal. Someone may object - if I smash my head into a wall, the pain
> I feel is very real. How can it not be real? But if seen in the light
> of eternity it is not real. Illusion exists, but the reason it is not
> considered real is because it is not eternal.  It's like a dream.

And yet it is so real compared with actual dreams isn't it?

> A dream happens, but when we wake up, we understand it was not real.

Sure and you believe when you die you will "wake" up to
some higher reality.

> Life in a material body is like that - dream-like. We'll realize that,
> if not before, then at the time of death. Death will be a rude
> awakening for the atheist.

Not at all it would be a cool awakening if it happened.
Unfortunately while in this physical form (illusion as
you like to label it) there is no evidence or reason to
believe this other world is anything but wishful thinking.
Primitive people used to think that their dreams were
another world now we know it was just their brains
doing a virtual reality for them.

The waking up analogy isn't new and has been
reinvented many times and is really just confusing
dreams with another reality and thinking it must
in some way be the true reality. It has all the
hallmarks of a made up world always a fantasy
version of the physical world we live in.

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:57:18 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


>It would prove they had detailed knowledge of
>the reality behind the world we live in.

You don't a patent to know that. It's obvious if you study the
different explanations.

>There
>would be no need for an actual patent just a
>paper showing how to build something like
>a touch screen, a semiconductor, a laser,
>and so on. You know, all those things that
>would be easy for anyone with a *detailed*
>knowledge of reality.

Who decided that technological expertise is the best method to measure
our ability to understand the reality we live in? Those who are
influential in defining peoples' realities - the producers,
scientists, advertising, the media, politicians, etc. -- have made
technological advancement the barometer of human progress, claiming
that the advancement of technology is a most noble pursuit for the
human race, that it has made the world a better place to live in.

As proof, they list all the consumer gadgets we use and are dependent
Upon - CD players, computers, cameras, cell-phones, televisions, DVDs,
cars, and so on - and say that the intelligence to build these things
shows that we have advanced our understanding of nature and how she
works far beyond our ability in the middle ages.

But is this proposition correct? To build a CD player, one certainly
requires advanced knowledge of physics and chemistry, but these two
elements contribute to only a small part of the reality we perceive. A
far greater portion of reality consists of our conscious experience of
it -- something most people have forgotten. The unsuspecting public
does not realize that they are the observers of reality, and that such
observation is conditioned by the culture they grew up in. They take
it for granted that what they experience is reality, and that this
reality is best described in physical and chemical terms.

Modern science is very useful for making technology, and when we live
in a world where the masses are kept in awe and reverence of
technological wonders, science is of course a most important
undertaking. But the jubilation of the modern people over the newest
technology is not different from the gaping wonder with which people
in the middle ages looked upon sorcerers and magicians firing off
sulphur and gun powder. The magicians did this to dupe their audience
and secure their comfortable hold on society. In the middle ages the
regents of society kept people in ignorance so they were easy to
control and manipulate, and today modern controllers use the exact
same means to enslave people in ignorance. In the global culture the
slaves have just been upgraded to a middle class who owns their own
house and car. But they still slave their lives away in boring jobs
and are marred by the same endless worries and miseries, people have
always suffered from. They are still being ground down by taxation,
victims of greedy politicians, exactly like it's always been.

There is no basis for saying that advanced knowledge of mathematics
and physics enables a person to better understand the reality he lives
in any more than the cave dweller of some 2000 years ago who
worshipped nature and various gods. If modern society were based on a
proper understanding of reality, why is it ruining nature and her
inhabitants, who are sustainers of life? It is atheism that keeps the
consciousness on this lower scale of conscious evolution and blocks a
human being from becoming self realized. Self realization simply means
to realize oneself as separate from matter, without which there is no
question of God-realization.

No amount of technological expertise can aid us in that. Despite the
so-called advancement of modern society the human being is till not
able to transcend his mental conditioning. The proof is that modern
society does not produce people with evolved consciousness. Rather, we
see the exact opposite taking place - in proportion to the advancement
of technology, people have become more and more base and animalistic.

So why aren't the principles of recognizing the self -- which is the
basis of all understanding and learning -- not being taught in the
modern educational institutions? Because society, as it exists, is not
equipped to facilitate self-realized human beings. What need does a
self realized person have of the plethora of useless products that are
produced by the few conglomerates that control world consumerism? Such
enlightenment would indeed negate the necessity for the technological
advancement upon which the world's finances now rely. That is why, in
the current global culture, a deliberate campaign exists to transform
people into atheists. In such a culture, religion has been replaced
with politics. Instead of voting for a particular religion, one now
votes for politicians, who are mostly hired by those multinationals
with the biggest checkbooks -- all in the name of serving the people,
of course. The modern Coca-cola and Disney culture has
already made the whole world into one big marketplace - a worldwide
altar where technology is worshipped as the new opium of the masses.

Being fed endless propaganda from Hollywood -- where technology is
being depicted as the saving grace for all of life's problems -- and
living in an environment where they are constantly bombarded by
cell-phone and computer emissions (EMF), we quickly forget that
technology, despite assurances to the contrary, cannot save us from
the onslaughts of nature. Time and time again, technology comes up
short in the fight against nature; the new priests of society, now
clad in white coats instead of black, fail to comprehend how the
mechanisms of nature work. And how could they? They also
suffer from the misunderstanding that everything is dead matter, and
are restricted by the assumption that their knowledge of physical laws
can explain everything.

Yet more important than the understanding of how matter works is to
understand how consciousness, false ego, intelligence and mind work.
These make up a much greater part of the reality we perceive. As long
as we fail to understand the difference between matter and
consciousness, we cannot even be said to have evolved beyond animal
consciousness. That's why atheism is dangerous - it keeps the
consciousness trapped in a one-dimensional world of matter. It keeps
the living being from its rare mission in the human life form, which
is to study consciousness. It cultivates a perception of life where
the consciousness cannot see itself - a deception where the
consciousness in its absorption in matter forgets itself.

Every individual is duty-bound to alter their consciousness and
connect it with the whole - Sri Krishna. While Srila Prabhupada was a
nitya-siddha, he was also a social revolutionary, as was the Lord he
served: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The political correctness that
predominates in the world and passes as social etiquette should not
stop us from assisting him his mission - to silence the atheistic
class of men, and to inundate the world with Krishna Consciousness.

[casey]

On 19 May, 23:40, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:57:18 -0700 (PDT), casey

> [...]

> Who decided that technological expertise is the best method to measure
> our ability to understand the reality we live in?

That isn't relevant to your claim. Measure however you like.
But if as you claim your measure is superior you should be
able to demonstrate it with superior results not just talk.

> Those who are
> influential in defining peoples' realities - the producers,
> scientists, advertising, the media, politicians, etc. -- have made
> technological advancement the barometer of human progress, claiming
> that the advancement of technology is a most noble pursuit for the
> human race, that it has made the world a better place to live in.
>
> As proof, they list all the consumer gadgets we use and are dependent
> Upon - CD players, computers, cameras, cell-phones, televisions, DVDs,
> cars, and so on - and say that the intelligence to build these things
> shows that we have advanced our understanding of nature and how she
> works far beyond our ability in the middle ages.
>
> But is this proposition correct? To build a CD player, one certainly
> requires advanced knowledge of physics and chemistry, but these two
> elements contribute to only a small part of the reality we perceive.

So? If it is only a small part of the reality we
perceive it is still a part your detailed version
of reality and being a small part you should
able to use your vaisnava knowledge to build
a laser on that knowledge alone.

<snip for brevity>

> In the middle ages the
> regents of society kept people in ignorance so they were easy to
> control and manipulate, and today modern controllers use the exact
> same means to enslave people in ignorance.

No science doesn't enslave anyone in ignorance you
can learn it if you like.

> In the global culture the
> slaves have just been upgraded to a middle class who owns their own
> house and car. But they still slave their lives away in boring jobs
> and are marred by the same endless worries and miseries, people have
> always suffered from. They are still being ground down by taxation,
> victims of greedy politicians, exactly like it's always been.

You are straying from the issue which was your
claim that your vaisnava has a detailed knowledge
of reality.

> There is no basis for saying that advanced knowledge of mathematics
> and physics enables a person to better understand the reality he lives
> in any more than the cave dweller of some 2000 years ago who
> worshipped nature and various gods. If modern society were based on a
> proper understanding of reality, why is it ruining nature and her
> inhabitants, who are sustainers of life?

You are straying from the issue and that was not
comparing the knowledge science has discovered
with your vaisnava knowledge but the claim your
vaisnava knowledge is superior and yet you
produce nothing to demonstrate it but talk.

Science works that is why I believe it has some
handle on reality even if the ultimate nature of
reality is beyond human science.

> It is atheism that keeps the
> consciousness on this lower scale of conscious evolution and blocks a
> human being from becoming self realized. Self realization simply means
> to realize oneself as separate from matter, without which there is no
> question of God-realization.

Or self realization might simply mean to realize oneself
as something the brain does. That is why the contents
of consciousness correlates with brain states. You can
change your conscious experience by taking drugs as
an example of this.

> No amount of technological expertise can aid us in that. Despite the
> so-called advancement of modern society the human being is till not
> able to transcend his mental conditioning. The proof is that modern
> society does not produce people with evolved consciousness.

Again you are straying from the issue and that is
if your vaisnava has detailed knowledge of reality
what we call science would be a small part of
that knowledge and yet all we get is talk no lasers,
no vaccines ...

> Rather, we
> see the exact opposite taking place - in proportion to the advancement
> of technology, people have become more and more base and animalistic.

On the contrary nothing has changed. Some people such
as myself have become more refined. I don't act like an
animal unlike certain religious terrorists who apparently
cut out and eat the hearts of their enemies.

<snip unsubstantiated waffle for brevity>

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 00:40:31 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>That isn't relevant to your claim. Measure however you like.
>But if as you claim your measure is superior you should be
>able to demonstrate it with superior results not just talk.

I'm demonstrating this through my posts here. For instance, the Vedic
Version is the only reality-explanation on the planet that offers a
viable definition of reality and illusion. Anyone with a brain will
appreciate it. But since we all came here to the material world
originally to escape reality, very few of us are willing to return to
reality. The vast majority of people want to remain in the illusion
that the material world is the sole reality, and that they are the
controllers and enjoyers - exactly as predicted in the vedic Version.

King Chitracetu says:

"�In this material world there are as many living entities as there
are atoms. Among these living entities very few are human beings, and
among them, few are interested in following religious principles.'

"�O best of the brahmanas, Sukadeva Gosvami, out of many persons who
follow religious principles, only a few desire liberation from this
material world. Among many thousands who desire liberation, only one
may actually achieve liberation, giving up his material attachment to
society, friendship, love, country, home, wife and children. And among
many thousands of such liberated persons, one who can understand the
true meaning of liberation is very rare.'

"�O great sage, among many millions who are liberated and perfect in
knowledge of liberation, only one may become a devotee of Sri
Narayana, (Krsna). Such devotees, who are fully peaceful, are
extremely rare.'

--Srimad Bhagavatam 6.14. 3-5

[casey]

On 20 May, 01:26, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 00:40:31 -0700 (PDT), casey
>

> <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >That isn't relevant to your claim. Measure however you like.
> >But if as you claim your measure is superior you should be
> >able to demonstrate it with superior results not just talk.
>
> I'm demonstrating this through my posts here.

You haven't actually demonstrated anything you
have just made unsubstantiated statements about
what you believe.

> For instance, the Vedic
> Version is the only reality-explanation on the planet that offers a
> viable definition of reality and illusion.

You can find a viable definition of "reality" and
"illusion" in any dictionary.

What do you call visual, audio and tactile illusions?
Illusions in an illusion?

> Anyone with a brain will
> appreciate it. But since we all came here to the material world
> originally to escape reality, very few of us are willing to return to
> reality.

Again that is just a unsubstantiated statement.

When you think about yourself as a conscious entity
it is true you don't feel a physical object and in one
sense you aren't you are something the brain does.

The evidence for that is when your brain changes
so does your experiences. There is no verifiable
evidence of having an experience without a brain.

> The vast majority of people want to remain in the illusion
> that the material world is the sole reality, and that they are the
> controllers and enjoyers

How does anyone tell if they are dreaming or not?

> - exactly as predicted in the vedic Version.

How can it be a prediction after the fact?

I can easily "predict" that most people will not believe
in purple people eaters from the land of Nunja and
guess what, my "prediction" would (has) come true!

Unless you read the prediction before it happens
you have no way to know if it was a prediction or
just someone claiming it was predicted.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>You haven't actually demonstrated anything you
>have just made unsubstantiated statements about
>what you believe.

Whatever.

>You can find a viable definition of "reality" and
>"illusion" in any dictionary.

Nope. No viable definition is given anywhere but in the Vedic
tradition. If you disagree, let me hear your definition of reality and
illusion.

>What do you call visual, audio and tactile illusions?
>Illusions in an illusion?

The whole material world is an illusion. Not because it doesn't exist,
but because it is temporary. Everything has a beginning and an end.
That's illusion. Reality is eternal. It never ends - it is eternal
knowledge and bliss.In the material world time is experienced in past,
present and future. In the real world, in the spiritual world time is
experienced as one proplonged, eternal present.

Anyone, regardless of his beliefs and convictions, can experience that
he is a constant or eternal observer of existence.

Krishna says:

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood
to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at

death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change. (Bg. 2.13)

What Krishna is saying here, is that one's body changes all the time
from childhood, to youth, to old age. But the self or the I within,
remains constant. One's mind and intelligence change, sure. You are
are supposed to grow wiser with age. One's thoughts, feelings,
willpower, and convictions change as time progresses.

But it is the same I-feeling, who experience all these changes. It is
the same observer. The person stays the same despite the altercations
in matter.

That is the eternal soul. It is the same person, or the same soul who
sits in a child's body as the one who sits in the old man's body. The
person didn't change, in the sense that he is the same observer. His
thoughts and feelings and intelligence changed, but he remained the
same soul. In this way anyone can experience his own eternality.

It's a question of absorption - either one is absorped in matter,
which is in constant change. One is absorped in his thoughts,
feelings, and will. Or one is absorped in one's eternal self. That
means, one is absorped in observing one's thoughts, feelings, and
will. IOW one is absorped in his own consciousness.

That is a choice one has. And one's choice will be determined by the
way one is controlled by matter. When one's choice is motivated by the
desire to become FREE from matter, then one begins his spiritual
journey back home, back to Godhead.

Krishna says:

A person who is not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires - that
enter like rivers into the ocean, which is ever being filled but is
always still - can alone achieve peace, and not the man who strives to
satisfy such desires. (Bg 2.70)

A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who
lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship
and is devoid of false ego - he alone can attain real peace. (Bg 2.71)

That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which
a man is not bewildered. If one is thus situated even at the hour of
death, one can enter into the kingdom of God. (Bg 2.72)

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:28:32 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:01:58 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> It's mythology, bitch. In the real world asshole's believe in all
>>sorts of delusional idiocy. From dancing around in gay attire to
>>strapping bombs to their chest. It's unproven nonsense stupid monkeys
>>do.
>
>"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
>they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton

Do you even know who �GK Chesterton is? is was a roman catholic. His
god was totally different than yours. not to mention he had horrible
grammer to have written so many books.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:30:38 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT), casey
><jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Scientific? Detailed? So how come your vaisnava mob
>>haven't come up with anything you could patent from
>>this profound explanation of reality?
>
>Patent? hahaha :) What would that prove?
>
>Krishna says:

Noone Gives a fuck what you fairy tales have to say. what do you have
to say other than trying to promote your gay ass art

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:07:47 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Do you even know who �GK Chesterton is? is was a roman catholic. His
>god was totally different than yours. not to mention he had horrible
>grammer to have written so many books.

"The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the
fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were
not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no
basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man."

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:10:22 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Noone Gives a fuck what you fairy tales have to say. what do you have
>to say other than trying to promote your gay ass art

So you are gay, eh? :)

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5833827938359068962

[casey]

On 20 May, 02:30, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT), casey
>

> <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >You haven't actually demonstrated anything you
> >have just made unsubstantiated statements about
> >what you believe.
>
> Whatever.
>
> >You can find a viable definition of "reality" and
> >"illusion" in any dictionary.
>
> Nope. No viable definition is given anywhere but in the Vedic
> tradition. If you disagree, let me hear your definition of reality and
> illusion.

Reality:
The world or the state of things as they
actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic
or notional idea of them.

Illusion:
A false idea or belief.
A deceptive appearance or impression.

The kanizsa triangle is an illusion.
No triangle actually exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_contours

> >What do you call visual, audio and tactile illusions?
> >Illusions in an illusion?
>
> The whole material world is an illusion. Not because it doesn't exist,
> but because it is temporary. Everything has a beginning and an end.
> That's illusion.

And while it exists it is real it is not an illusion.

People do not have the illusion temporary things
don't have a beginning and end.

<snip unsubstantiated statements>

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:28:32 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:01:58 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> It's mythology, bitch. In the real world asshole's believe in all
>>sorts of delusional idiocy. From dancing around in gay attire to
>>strapping bombs to their chest. It's unproven nonsense stupid monkeys
>>do.
>
>"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
>they believe in anything." � -- �GK Chesterton

Bullshit. Your author is obviously a delusional theist brainwashed
to think there are gods.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:19:13 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

> Bullshit. Your author is obviously a delusional theist brainwashed
>to think there are gods.

Anyone with a brain will think there is God. Only a complete
brainwahed fool can get himself to think that the world created itself
out of a bunch of chemicals, against all empirical observation.

"The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man." �

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>Reality:
> The world or the state of things as they
> actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic
> or notional idea of them.

That definition is about as useful as a snowball in hell,since there
are different perceptions of the world. Who is to say whose
perception is right? As usual the Vedic Version reigns supreme. It is
the only system of knowledge that gives a concrete, scientifc

definition of reality and illusion.

>Illusion:
> A false idea or belief.

Your definition is absolutely useless. As I said, how do you know when
an idea is false?

> A deceptive appearance or impression.

You mean like the idea that one living entity transformed into another
one by gradual mutations?

In the modern culture children are brought up to believe that the
world has evolved from a heap of chemicals to the complicated world we
know today. In school children are taught that this present western
civilization is the epitome of all human learning, knowledge, progress
and understanding. In school, I remember learning about the ancients -
the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, Mesopotamia - never once did we
hear so much as a squeak about the Vedic culture, the most ancient,
advanced, glorious culture to ever grace the planet.

Our teachers neglected to tell us, that at the time when people in
Europe carried clubs and lived in caves, or in the middle-ages when
people were burned for saying that the earth is round - in the Vedic
culture they had already described advanced mathematics, and the
universe and its planets in minute detail.

Instead, children are taught to believe that before the advent of
modern science, people lived in caves in darkness and ignorance - a
disease riddled bunch who believed in myths and fairy-tales, had weird
values , who didn't know about proper cleanliness, etc. etc.. Modern
people in general think that the only legitimate way to view and
understand the world is through science.

In essence, science means empirical knowledge, ie. knowledge based on
sensory perception. But who decided that this is the best way to
gather knowledge? We get knowledge from many other sources, like
learning from authorities. That's why children go to school - to learn
from authorities. In fact, we wouldn't know much at all, if someone
hadn't taught us to begin with. We wouldn't even know that 2 and 2 is
four, hadn't somebody taught us. We might know that 4 apples is double
as many as 2 apples, but If someone hadn't taught us, we wouldn't even
know the language and the concepts to express mathematics.

Thus it is a direct observable fact that knowledge from authority is
the most important way of learning anything - exactly as predicted by
the Vedic sages, who hold that of the different methods of gathering
knowledge - pratyaksha, anumana, shabda - shabda (by sound) is the
most important. And it holds true whether the subject is spiritual or
material.

Direct sensory perception would be more or less useless if we hadn't
learned from someone how to process and make sense of the sensory
input. Even the idea, that language evolved from some ape-like
grunting to reciting Shakespeare is so ludicrous, that it's amazing
they've gotten the majority of people in the global culture to believe
in it. I mean, how do you make a whole world believe in nonsense? A
very effective propaganda-machine, indeed�

Take Einstein, for instance. If you had given Einstein a pen-drive and
told him - there are 3000 books on this stick, and pictures of your
mother as well - he would have been left completely flabbergasted and
mystified. In fact, he would have had no way of understanding the
working principles behind the pen-drive. He would be in complete
darkness, because he would have had no reference to judge his sensory
experience by. This goes to show that even the most intelligent person
in the world would be foolish to rely only on empirical knowledge.

Atheists, with their limited mental and intellectual faculties, are in
the same position as Einstein in front of a disc-drive, when trying to
understand Krishna . Now, if you give the same pen-drive to a modern
teenager - he can tell you all about what makes a pen-drive work.
Similarly, Hare Krishna can tell you everything about how God, the
body, the mind, and the world work. The reason for this is, that in
Hare Krishna the right framework for understanding the world is given.
This process of knowledge has descended into the world via the
disciplic succession going back to Krishna Himself 5000 years ago,
when He spoke Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna.

Jiva Goswami, a Hare Krsna from the 1500s, had this to say about
understanding God - the first thing you have to understand, to know
God - Krishna, is to understand that He is inconceivable.

Krishna is as far away from the materially conditioned mind of modern
man, as a computer is from, say, George Washington. You don't have the
slightest way of understanding God before and unless you accept that
God is inconceivable, that He can act in mysterious, inconceivable
ways. To maintain that every experience - the sum total of reality,
can be expressed entirely in physical, scientific terms is so
amazingly dumb that it shows the efficiency of the modern propaganda
machine.

The propaganda-machine conditions and indoctrinates everyone into
thinking that they are the enjoyers, and that they can be happy by
gratifying the bodily senses. In fact, there are no other goals in the
Coca-cola culture except growing up, getting an education, so you can
get a job in order to make money so you can spend it. There is nothing
beyond that. How hopeless is that? It may seem ok for the successful
people, who, due to their good karma, are getting their desires
fulfilled, but for the scores of people who live in poverty and
suffering, how is it beneficial to tell them that this life is the
only chance you'll ever get to have your desires fulfilled? After that
- nothing.

Or like the Church tells you - too bad, God cast you down into a life
of poverty and misery, while He casts another person down into a life
in fame and glory. It's a sick world-view, whichever way you look at
it, and it conditions people to a life of misery and disappointment.

Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg 4.34)

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

O learned Uddhava, those who fix their consciousness on Me, giving up
all material desires, share with Me a happiness that cannot possibly
be experienced by those engaged in sense gratification.

--Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.12

[Ken]

Jason, Andrew, Puke and Jahnuts are all proof of the above statement

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 08:45:35 -0700 (PDT), Ken <flak...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Jason, Andrew, Puke and me are all proof of the above statement

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5871036864537715154

[Ken]

Jason, Andrew, Puke and Jahnuts are all proof of the above statement.

Most thesits are INSANE, while the rest are simply delusional and
brainwashed

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:19:13 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:

What do these psychopaths imagine they achieve with their never-ending
stream of in-your-face stupidity?

Apart from being stupid it is deliberately rude.

I never even realised Chesterton was a religious loonie until I was
over 40 and one of these psychos started quoting him - to me he had
been the author of humorous novels like The Napoleon of Notting Hill
and The Man Who Was Thursday.

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:00:23 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:07:47 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Do you even know who �GK Chesterton is? is was a roman catholic. His
>>god was totally different than yours. not to mention he had horrible
>>grammer to have written so many books.
>
>"The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the
>fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were
>not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no
>basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man."
>� -- �GK Chesterton

now you are just getting desperate and trying harder to promote your
gay ass art

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:02:52 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:10:22 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>>Noone Gives a fuck what you fairy tales have to say. what do you have
>>to say other than trying to promote your gay ass art
>
>So you are gay, eh? :)
>

Oh that was lame I mean what is this third grade.. Lame dude so
lame... kinda like your gay ass art

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:36:59 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:19:13 -0700, kni...@baawa.com wrote:
>
>> Bullshit. Your author is obviously a delusional theist brainwashed
>>to think there are gods.
>
>Anyone with a brain will think there is God. Only a complete
>brainwahed fool can get himself to think that the world created itself
>out of a bunch of chemicals, against all empirical observation.

You can't just have a brain, you need to use it too. Thinking some
Pixie said Abracadabra and poofed the world into existence is not
using your brain.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[casey]

On 20 May, 07:45, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT), casey
>

> <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >Reality:
> > The world or the state of things as they
> > actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic
> > or notional idea of them.
>
> That definition is about as useful as a snowball in hell,since there
> are different perceptions of the world.

Science has a good handle on separating out
what actually exists from what doesn't that is
why science works. It wouldn't work if all it had
was illusions.

>  Who is to say whose
> perception is right?

The "perception" of science is based on testable
theories for they work showing that at least at a
practical level they have some handle on reality.

> As usual the Vedic Version reigns supreme. It is
> the only system of knowledge that gives a concrete, scientifc
> definition of reality and illusion.

Do you even know what a scientific definition is?

No working technology I know of makes use of
your Vedic stuff. If it is anything to do with the
stuff you write it is all unsubstantiated statements
without any application except in the imaginative
world of someone in a dream. The knowledge
is about as useful as the knowledge about the
land of Narnia.

>
> >Illusion:
> > A false idea or belief.
>
> Your definition is absolutely useless. As I said, how do you know when
> an idea is false?

Indeed how do we know? You do not address that issue
you simply claim your are not delusional. How can you
tell if you are delusional or not?

Science does try to answer those questions rather
than assuming they have the answer. You simply
snip out data that may be useful in working out how
we determine if something is an illusion or not.

The Kanizsa triangle is an illusion.
No triangle actually exists except in the brain.
How do we know this is true?

> ... in the Vedic

> culture they had already described advanced mathematics, and the
> universe and its planets in minute detail.

So why didn't your mob tell us what we would find
before our space probes sent back those pictures
of the planets and their moons?

> Modern
> people in general think that the only legitimate way to view and
> understand the world is through science.

It is not so much a legitimate way it is more a way
that actually works. You are making use of the
fruits of the way of science when you post on the
internet.

> In essence, science means empirical knowledge, ie. knowledge based on
> sensory perception.

Some knowledge may have been learnt by the species
including the knowledge used to know how to learn
from our sensory perceptions. This knowledge is hard
wired at birth and then modified by experience.

> But who decided that this is the best way to
> gather knowledge? We get knowledge from many other sources, like
> learning from authorities. That's why children go to school - to learn
> from authorities. In fact, we wouldn't know much at all, if someone
> hadn't taught us to begin with. We wouldn't even know that 2 and 2 is
> four, hadn't somebody taught us. We might know that 4 apples is double
> as many as 2 apples, but If someone hadn't taught us, we wouldn't even
> know the language and the concepts to express mathematics.

But the knowledge of authorities had to start with
someone who knew less. Most of our knowledge
about the world beyond our every day experience
was gained by individuals using the methods of
science.

Of course before science some just made stuff
up claiming they got their knowledge from a god
but there is nothing they say which couldn't have
been thought up by an individual human.

> Thus it is a direct observable fact that knowledge from authority is
> the most important way of learning anything

Most of what we know is indeed from authorities but
their knowledge comes from many generations of
accumulating knowledge found by individuals.

Authorities simply parrot what others have discovered
for themselves.

The important thing about science is that in principle
you don't have to accept what an authority says for
if you have the ability you can test it out for yourself.

> Even the idea, that language evolved from some ape-like
> grunting to reciting Shakespeare is so ludicrous,

I can't go through the evidence in this short post
but how it could have evolved is out there if you
want to google it.

> that it's amazing
> they've gotten the majority of people in the global culture to believe
> in it. I mean, how do you make a whole world believe in nonsense?

By showing it is not nonsense.

> Atheists, with their limited mental and intellectual faculties, are in
> the same position as Einstein in front of a disc-drive, when trying to
> understand Krishna . Now, if you give the same pen-drive to a modern
> teenager - he can tell you all about what makes a pen-drive work.

Do you know how a pen drive works?

> Similarly, Hare Krishna can tell you everything about how God, the
> body, the mind, and the world work.

But have no evidence that aren't talking rubbish.

I can explain how a pen drive works and you can
check it out for yourself you do not have to believe
it on my authority or say so.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:02:01 -0700 (PDT), Ken <flak...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Most athesits are INSANE, while the rest are simply delusional and
>brainwashed

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5871727064476666290

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>Science has a good handle on separating out
>what actually exists from what doesn't that is
>why science works. It wouldn't work if all it had
>was illusions.

The only thing science has a good handle on is technology. As for
understanding the world and our place in it, science is no further
than they were during the stone-age. Just because you can observe the
world through microscopes and telescopes, doesn't mean you understand
the world.

>The "perception" of science is based on testable
>theories for they work showing that at least at a
>practical level they have some handle on reality.

That's why bhakti-yoga is a scientific process, it can be tested and
verified that, as you apply yoursef to the process, you become a more
happy, wholesome and thoughtful person, your desire for
sensegratification gradually dwindles your percetption of the world
improves, because you begin to see all lving entities as parts of the
same whole. These are direct, demonstrable facts you can observe when
you begin to add Krishna to your life.

>Do you even know what a scientific definition is?

Yep, do you?

>No working technology I know of makes use of
>your Vedic stuff.

<snip>

Bharata Muni is an ancient sage who laid down the first general
theories of poetry , dance, drama, music, and aesthetics in his
treatise in Sanskrit on dramatic art known as Natya sastra,this
treatise is of an encyclopedic character,probably compiled from far
more ancient works.Most classical and dance forms of India are
influenced by the guidelines set down in this treatise.

Chess(Shataranja or AshtaPada)was invented in India.

Sushruta a physician of Ancient India is the father of surgery.

The place value system,the decimal system was developed in India in
100 BC.

Aryabhatta was the scientist who invented the digit zero.

The worlds first university was established in Takshila in 700 BC

Christopher Columbus wa attracted by India's wealth and was looking
for a route to India when he discovered America by mistake.

The art of Navigation and Navigating was born in the river Sindh 6000
over years ago.

Bhaskaracharya rightly calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit
the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart.

The value of "pi" was first calculated by Indian Mathamatician
Budhayana ,he explained the concept of what is known as the
Pythagorean Theorem.

Algebra,Trigonometry and calculus originated in India.

Quadric equations were used by Sridharacharya in the 11th century.

Until 1896,India was the only source for diamonds in the world.

The Himalayas are the highest range of mountains in the world.

The practice of yoga existed in India since time immemorial.Yoga and
meditation are practices used to attain enlightenment.

The Sumerians were the first Western Traders in India.Merchants bought
Indian spices because the value of many spices was higher in wieght
than that of the gold.

India never invaded any country in her last 10,000 years of history.

Grammer constuites one of the India's greatest contributions to the
world.

Panini, the Sanskrit grammarian,who lived between 750 and 500 BC was
the first to compose formal grammar through his Astadhyai.

Sanskrit is considered the mother of all higher languages.

Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to the humans.
Charaka,the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago.

USA based IEEE has proved that the pioneer of wireless communication
was Prof.Jagdish Bose and not Marconi.

Peppers and mangoes were first grown in India.

Jayadeva was an Indian mathematician who knew the cyclic method
chakravala the finest thing achieved in the theory of numbers before
lagrange.

Gopala was an Indian mathematician who studied the Fibonacci
numbers,more than half century before Fibonacci popularized these
numbers in Europe

[casey]

On 20 May, 22:24, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT), casey
>

> <jgkjca...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >Science has a good handle on separating out
> >what actually exists from what doesn't that is
> >why science works. It wouldn't work if all it had
> >was illusions.
>
> The only thing science has a good handle on is technology.

Which requires a good handle on how the world works.

> As for
> understanding the world and our place in it, science is no further
> than they were during the stone-age. Just because you can observe the
> world through microscopes and telescopes, doesn't mean you understand
> the world.

We understand it much better than we did before we
had the microscope and the telescope and all the
other instruments of science used to extend our
sensory input.

> >The "perception" of science is based on testable
> >theories for they work showing that at least at a
> >practical level they have some handle on reality.
>
> That's why bhakti-yoga is a scientific process, it can be tested and
> verified that, as you apply yoursef to the process, you become a more
> happy, wholesome and thoughtful person, your desire for
> sensegratification gradually dwindles your percetption of the world
> improves, because you begin to see all lving entities as parts of the
> same whole. These are direct, demonstrable facts you can observe when
> you begin to add Krishna to your life.

Well yoga or meditation may have an effect on the
brain producing all the feelings you talk about
but as for "beginning to see all living entities as parts
of the same whole" doesn't require yoga it is a fact.

[casey]

On 20 May, 22:24, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> [...]
>

In the past India may have contributed much to
human civilization, including math and science,
and will probably do so into the future but that
doesn't give credence to the mumbo jumbo it
has also produced.

India also has some human rights issues such
as the caste system and the treatment of women.
It also seems to me that religious differences is
a problem for India as it is in other countries
where each religion thinks it is the correct one
and the others are mistaken. Science doesn't
have this problem because it is self correcting.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:36:40 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>Which requires a good handle on how the world works.

Nope. It requires a good handle on how chemicals work. To know how
matter works doesn't mean you know how the world works. The world is
clearly made up of more than just matter. As long as you don't
understand how life works you are wallowing in the deepest pit of
ignorance. You may have a Ph.D or nobel price in physics, but as long
as you don't understand how consciousness works you are no better than
a pig or an ass.

That's what atheism does to you - it reduces you to an animal. In
Bhagavad Gita Krishna gives a detailed, scientific description of how
life works.

>We understand it much better than we did before we
>had the microscope and the telescope

On the contrary, humans have never been more base and animalistic,
depressed and unhappy as they are in the modern Coca-cola culture.

>and all the
>other instruments of science used to extend our
>sensory input.

You can extend your sensory input a million times and it will not
increase your understanding of the world. You are like an ant looking
into a telescope. Does an ant become more wise by looking through a
telescope? I think you know the answer to that.

>Well yoga or meditation may have an effect on the
>brain producing all the feelings you talk about
>but as for "beginning to see all living entities as parts
>of the same whole" doesn't require yoga it is a fact.

Krishna says:

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal
fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very
hard with the six senses, which include the mind. (Bg. 15.7)

The living entity in the material world carries his different
conceptions of life from one body to another as the air carries
aromas. Thus he takes one kind of body and again quits it to take
another. (Bg 15.8)

The living entity, thus taking another gross body, obtains a certain
type of ear, eye, tongue, nose and sense of touch, which are grouped
about the mind. He thus enjoys a particular set of sense objects. (Bg
15.9)

The foolish cannot understand how a living entity can quit his body,
nor can they understand what sort of body he enjoys under the spell of
the modes of nature. But one whose eyes are trained in knowledge can
see all this. (Bg. 15.10)

The endeavoring transcendentalists who are situated in
self-realization can see all this clearly. But those whose minds are
not developed and who are not situated in self-realization cannot see
what is taking place, though they may try to. (Bg 15.11)

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 02:24:25 -0700 (PDT), casey
<jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>In the past India may have contributed much to
>human civilization, including math and science,
>and will probably do so into the future but that
>doesn't give credence to the mumbo jumbo it
>has also produced.
>
>India also has some human rights issues such
>as the caste system and the treatment of women.
>It also seems to me that religious differences is
>a problem for India as it is in other countries
>where each religion thinks it is the correct one
>and the others are mistaken. Science doesn't
>have this problem because it is self correcting.

In both religion and science, some people are dishonest, exploitative,
incompetent and exhibit other human failings. My concern here is with
the bigger picture.

I have been a scientist for more than 40 years, having studied at
Cambridge and Harvard. I researched and taught at Cambridge
University, was a research fellow of the Royal Society, and have more
than 80 publications in peer-reviewed journals. I am strongly
pro-science. But I am more and more convinced that that the spirit of
free inquiry is being repressed within the scientific community by
fear-based conformity. Institutional science is being crippled by
dogmas and taboos. Increasingly expensive research is yielding
diminishing returns.

Bad religion is arrogant, self-righteous, dogmatic and intolerant. And
so is bad science. But unlike religious fundamentalists, scientific
fundamentalists do not realize that their opinions are based on faith.
They think they know the truth. They believe that science has already
solved the fundamental questions. The details still need working out,
but in principle the answers are known.

Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief
system. But the "scientific worldview," based on the materialist
philosophy, is enormously prestigious because science has been so
successful. Its achievements touch all our lives through technologies
like computers, jet planes, cell phones, the Internet and modern
medicine. Our intellectual world has been transformed through an
immense expansion of scientific knowledge, down into the most
microscopic particles of matter and out into the vastness of space,
with hundreds of billions of galaxies in an ever-expanding universe.

Science has been successful because it has been open to new
discoveries. By contrast, committed materialists have made science
into a kind of religion. They believe that there is no reality but
material or physical reality. Consciousness is a by-product of the
physical activity of the brain. Matter is unconscious. Nature is
mechanical. Evolution is purposeless. God exists only as an idea in
human minds, and hence in human heads.

These materialist beliefs are often taken for granted by scientists,
not because they have thought about them critically, but because they
haven't. To deviate from them is heresy, and heresy harms careers.

Since the 19th century, materialists have promised that science will
eventually explain everything in terms of physics and chemistry.
Science will prove that living organisms are complex machines, nature
is purposeless, and minds are nothing but brain activity. Believers
are sustained by the implicit faith that scientific discoveries will
justify their beliefs. The philosopher of science Karl Popper called
this stance "promissory materialism" because it depends on issuing
promissory notes for discoveries not yet made. Many promises have been
issued, but few redeemed. Materialism is now facing a credibility
crunch unimaginable in the 20th century.

As I show in my new book, "Science Set Free," unexpected problems are
disrupting the sciences from within. Many scientists prefer to think
that these problems will eventually be solved by more research along
established lines, but some, including myself, think that they are
symptoms of a deeper malaise. Science is being held back by
centuries-old assumptions that have hardened into dogmas.

Despite the confident claim in the late 20th century that genes and
molecular biology would soon explain the nature of life, the problems
of biological development remain unsolved. No one knows how plants and
animals develop from fertilized eggs. Many details have been
discovered, hundreds of genomes have been sequenced, but there is
still no proof that life and minds can be explained by physics and
chemistry alone.

The technical triumph of the Human Genome Project led to big
surprises. There are far fewer human genes than anticipated, a mere
23,000 instead of 100,000. Sea urchins have about 26,000 and rice
plants 38,000. Attempts to predict characteristics such as height have
shown that genes account for only about 5 percent of the variation
from person to person, instead of the 80 percent expected. Unbounded
confidence has given way to the "missing heritability problem."
Meanwhile, investors in genomics and biotechnology have lost many
billions of dollars. A recent report by the Harvard Business School on
the biotechnology industry revealed that "only a tiny fraction of
companies had ever made a profit" and showed how promises of
breakthroughs have failed over and over again.

Despite the brilliant technical achievements of neuroscience, like
brain scanning, there is still no proof that consciousness is merely
brain activity. Leading journals such as Behavioural and Brain
Sciences and the Journal of Consciousness Studies publish many
articles that reveal deep problems with the materialist doctrine. The
philosopher David Chalmers has called the very existence of subjective
experience the "hard problem." It is hard because it defies
explanation in terms of mechanisms. Even if we understand how eyes and
brains respond to red light, the experience of redness is not
accounted for.

In physics, too, the problems are multiplying. Since the beginning of
the 21st century, it has become apparent that known kinds of matter
and energy make up only about 4 percent of the universe. The rest
consists of "dark matter" and "dark energy." The nature of 96 percent
of physical reality is literally obscure.

Contemporary theoretical physics is dominated by superstring and M
theories, with 10 and 11 dimensions respectively, which remain
untestable. The multiverse theory, which asserts that there are
trillions of universes besides our own, is popular among cosmologists
in the absence of any experimental evidence. These are interesting
speculations, but they are not hard science. They are a shaky
foundation for the materialist claim that everything can be explained
in terms of physics.

Good science, like good religion, is a journey of discovery, a quest.
It builds on traditions from the past. But it is most effective when
it recognizes how much we do not know, when it is not arrogant but
humble.

Rupert Sheldrake, Ph.D., is a biologist and author of Science Set
Free. He was a Fellow of Clare College, Cambridge University, where he
was Director of Studies in cell biology, and was Principal Plant
Physiologist at the International Crops Resaerch Institute for the
Semi-Arid Tropics in Hyderabad, India. From 2005-2010 he was Director
of the Perrott-Warrick Project, funded from Trinity College,
Cambridge. His web site is www.sheldrake.org.

Have a look at my art -

[bil...@microsoft.com]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 07:24:55 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT), casey
><jgkj...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>The only thing science has a good handle on is technology. As for
>understanding the world and our place in it, science is no further
>than they were during the stone-age. Just because you can observe the
>world through microscopes and telescopes, doesn't mean you understand
>the world.

Do you realize what you just said means nothing. The only
understanding of the world and our place in it where we are located on
a map. I mean what exactly about the world do you want to understand?
are you trying to ask the question why are we here? That question is
so easily answered and I may be able to do it in a sentence or less if
I thought about it. The question is to you though. You are the one
accusing science of knowing nothing. Well in order to do that you must
be able to say you know everything. So obviously you understand the
world and our place in it so prove me wrong and go ahead and explain
your findings about the world that you have gotten from doing pushups
and what not.

>>The "perception" of science is based on testable
>>theories for they work showing that at least at a
>>practical level they have some handle on reality.
>
>That's why bhakti-yoga is a scientific process, it can be tested and
>verified that, as you apply yoursef to the process, you become a more
>happy, wholesome and thoughtful person, your desire for
>sensegratification gradually dwindles your percetption of the world
>improves, because you begin to see all lving entities as parts of the
>same whole. These are direct, demonstrable facts you can observe when
>you begin to add Krishna to your life.

Noone needs fairy tales added to thier life

>
>>Do you even know what a scientific definition is?
>
>Yep, do you?

uhh not so fast.. No you do not

>Aryabhatta was the scientist who invented the digit zero.

Now you have No idea what you are talking about. when that guy lived
around 500 ad there was NO digital anything. I mean OMG what you just
said is just so incredibly fucking stupid

>
>The worlds first university was established in Takshila in 700 BC

Not even close

>
>Christopher Columbus wa attracted by India's wealth and was looking
>for a route to India when he discovered America by mistake.

actually he just wanted to get some spices

>
>The art of Navigation and Navigating was born in the river Sindh 6000
>over years ago.
>
>Bhaskaracharya rightly calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit
>the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart.
>
>The value of "pi" was first calculated by Indian Mathamatician
>Budhayana ,he explained the concept of what is known as the
>Pythagorean Theorem.
>
>Algebra,Trigonometry and calculus originated in India.
>
>Quadric equations were used by Sridharacharya in the 11th century.
>
>Until 1896,India was the only source for diamonds in the world.
>
>The Himalayas are the highest range of mountains in the world.

boy someone has a low self esteem

>
>The practice of yoga existed in India since time immemorial.Yoga and
>meditation are practices used to attain enlightenment.
>
>The Sumerians were the first Western Traders in India.Merchants bought
>Indian spices because the value of many spices was higher in wieght
>than that of the gold.
>
>India never invaded any country in her last 10,000 years of history.
>
>Grammer constuites one of the India's greatest contributions to the
>world.
>
>Panini, the Sanskrit grammarian,who lived between 750 and 500 BC was
>the first to compose formal grammar through his Astadhyai.
>
>Sanskrit is considered the mother of all higher languages.
>
>Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to the humans.
>Charaka,the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago.
>
>USA based IEEE has proved that the pioneer of wireless communication
>was Prof.Jagdish Bose and not Marconi.
>
>Peppers and mangoes were first grown in India.
>
>Jayadeva was an Indian mathematician who knew the cyclic method
>chakravala the finest thing achieved in the theory of numbers before
>lagrange.
>
>Gopala was an Indian mathematician who studied the Fibonacci
>numbers,more than half century before Fibonacci popularized these
>numbers in Europe
>

>Have a look at my gay ass art -

[casey]

On 21 May, 02:49, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]

Selected response to Rupert Sheldrake quote:

> They believe that there is no reality but material
> or physical reality.

It is more a matter of that is all they have to
work with. The layman has a naïve view of what
physical actually means in science. Have you read
the Matter Myth?

> Consciousness is a by-product of the physical activity
> of the brain.

The only example we have of consciousness is the
physical activity of a human neural net (brain)
but its actual nature is unknown as we cannot
predict the quality of how it feels from what we
know about neural networks.

> Matter is unconscious.

In the same sense that matter cannot add numbers
unless it is in the form of a computer + program
matter cannot do consciousness unless in the form
of an active brain. This is an observation not
an opinion.

> Nature is mechanical.

It is not mechanical in the sense of being made
out of cogs and wheels. It is only "mechanical"
in the abstract sense of being determinate.

> Evolution is purposeless.

It creates its own purpose.

> God exists only as an idea in human minds, and
> hence in human heads.

There is no evidence of God existing anywhere else.

> Science is being held back by centuries-old
> assumptions that have hardened into dogmas.

Old assumptions have always held back new ideas
until the new ideas are accepted. Science is
self correcting unlike religious dogma.


> ... there is still no proof that life and minds

> can be explained by physics and chemistry alone.

So in the meantime we explore.

> Despite the brilliant technical achievements of
> neuroscience, like brain scanning, there is still
> no proof that consciousness is merely brain activity.

You don't need a brain scan all you have to do is
drug the brain or observe what happens when
the brain is damaged to see how it correlates with
conscious states and contents. The brain has
something to do with being conscious and we have
no example of anything else showing consciousness.

> David Chalmers has called the very existence of
> subjective experience the "hard problem." It is
> hard because it defies explanation in terms of
> mechanisms. Even if we understand how eyes and
> brains respond to red light, the experience of
> redness is not accounted for.

Yes that is a problem to be solved.

> Good science, like good religion, is a journey of
> discovery, a quest. It builds on traditions from
> the past. But it is most effective when it
> recognizes how much we do not know, when it is not
> arrogant but humble.

No problem with that view.

> Rupert Sheldrake, Ph.D., is a biologist and author of Science Set
> Free. He was a Fellow of Clare College, Cambridge University, where he
> was Director of Studies in cell biology, and was Principal Plant
> Physiologist at the International Crops Resaerch Institute for the
> Semi-Arid Tropics in Hyderabad, India. From 2005-2010 he was Director
> of the Perrott-Warrick Project, funded from Trinity College,
> Cambridge. His web site is www.sheldrake.org.

Sheldrake has been critical but doesn't demonstrate
a better way of doing things by actually doing it
a different way and coming up with better theories
or new discoveries.

[kni...@baawa.com]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 07:05:05 +0200, Jahnu <jahn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:02:01 -0700 (PDT), Ken <flak...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Most athesits are INSANE, while the rest are simply delusional and
>>brainwashed
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5871727064476666290

Some art. Cut and paste any five year could do. Confusing subject
matter. Over use of pastel colors. Too gaudy and restricted to a
single audience. No universal appeal outside of superstition.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[Immortalist]

On May 19, 9:40 am, Jahnu <jahnud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 06:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
>
> <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Interesting comment. I pass.
>
> No wonder you are embarrassed to state your belief, coward.
>

You have theories about whether I am embarrassed or not but you have
not provided any evidence. Simple enough to make claims have fun
trying to back them up.

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:57:44 -0500, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:

>Do you realize what you just said means nothing.

<blah blah>

It means nothing to you because you have nothing in your brain.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu#5867059076001038610

Have a look at my art -

[Jahnu]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 07:39:14 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanima...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>You have theories about whether I am embarrassed or not but you have
>not provided any evidence. Simple enough to make claims have fun
>trying to back them up.

Evidence? You have no interest in any evidence what so ever. Who do
you think you are fooling? Your only interest here lies in being a
cantankerous scumbag.

Krishna says:

Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among
mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the
atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me. (Bg 7.15)