What is meant by "desire"?
pi
What is meant by "desire", please?
Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
pi
web head
niunian
wrote:
without. To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
Is that enlightenment? I don't think so.
web head
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 03:09:05 +0200, pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com>
moving objects with thought may be a natural extension of desire.
Awaken21
Depends on the context. If we're talking desire that interferes with
ending discontent, desire in it's spiritual or Buddhist context, it's
simply craving some thing or circumstance to the point you ignore or
are indifferent to other significant considerations. Like the effect
your pursuit of the object of your desire on others. Or on yourself.
If we're talking generally you could include things like hunger, the
wish for shelter or clothing. But those aren't so problematic and in
fact may need to be met before you can seriously address desire in
it's spiritual context which causes the cycle of discontent to
perpetuate itself.
niunian
hunger and the wish for shelter or clothing within a spiritual
context. In other words, you wish all your desires have been met
before you begin to bubble about getting rid of desires in order to
gain any enlightenment.
niunian
I disagree.
Awaken21
Sure you desire to have your basic needs met, but meeting those needs
is not the end of desire.
"I've met my basic survival needs and now I don't desire anything
else!" heheh If only that were so! That would make all spiritual
teachings completely obsolete and this life so much less complicated
in general.
small tortoiseshell
>
> Desire is the same as breathing which is something you can not live
> without.
'you' and desire is the same, so without it, indeed a 'you' can not
live, as imagined at least
> To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
no need to go that far, attentive breathing instead of stopped
breathing, as in meditation pr.ex, will suffice in detaching from
desire enough to live a life that is not all imagined. no need to get
rid of desire, just the blind attachment to it...
web head
focus all of it into the stomach until you feel sick and deal with it
physically.. it has helped in extreme issues.
niunian
You are fortunate which is something he has yet to figure out.
Awaken21
I'm a meditator. Nothing else I've tried is even a close second place.
The ability to breath it in and let it go, just like that. Was THE
game changer for me.
web head
might have overused this method and he probably should be making his
physical issues mental emotional issues.
niunian
<_cl...@operamail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 9, 6:45�am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Desire is the same as breathing which is something you can not live
>> without.
>
>'you' and desire is the same, so without it, indeed a 'you' can not
>live, as imagined at least
Pure intellectual imagination.
>
>
>> To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
>> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
>
>no need to go that far, attentive breathing instead of stopped
>breathing, as in meditation pr.ex, will suffice in detaching from
>desire enough to live a life that is not all imagined. no need to get
>rid of desire, just the blind attachment to it...
A hypocrite, like a moth wishing the warms of fire and imagining to
stay away from the fire far enough so that it will never be burned.
Tim
You are starting to become unbelievable pi. I have seen this line of
approach before. But to the point “desire”. Desire is both real and
imagined.
Imaginary desire is one of commercialism and taping into and taking
advantage of the primate natures of jealousy, envy and covetousness.
You are lead to believe that there are certain things you need, should
do and belong to in order to be successful.
The signs of success are the standard wife, 2.5 kids, a cat an dog, a
two car garage and a white picket fence all paid for by your great and
respectable job. Anything short of this and you are ejected until such
time as you comply. You would be surprised how far and what people
will do for that image.
Real desire however is quite the opposite, … well not identical or
opposite at all but this is how the monkey shit mind works and that is
the audience so… to the signs and symbols of success which in most
cases are a fraud since although they are icons of success in fact the
method in which they were attained are anything but success, nothing
to be proud of and certainly disgrace and shame are hidden behind
those thousand dollar smiles.
Real desire, the driving lamed fire, is for completeness. To replace
something vital that was present and now lost. If it never was you
would never know its absence. Desire is the prince of its absence. You
may call it wholeness, completeness, fulfillment… your soul of self…
many words as always but the finger on the button is to rest in peace.
It was and no longer is. That is the root from which all desire
evolves.
It is a realized voidness of which is as unique as you and yet like a
child, you reach for this and that, maybe a new car, house, exotic
vacation, a better big screen than the Jones, picking on the geeks and
losers, the poor and homeless, change your sexual preference… whatever
but, what was once desired, when received, since it did not bring
completion becomes what you once wanted.
How many lives destroyed and souls plunged into desire just on that
simple fact alone. Lusts, pride and passions. How many gave up
security for a momentary fascination yielding a life time of shame on
themselves and unpredictably their families and friends?
You see the unfortunate monkeys believe in duality. That both good and
evil co-exist. That there is no line that divides them and yet they
are separate. That is monkey shit. Only humanity possess the ability
to civilize itself and yet it excuses itself in the name of animal
nature… but if you were a dog you could lick your own balls and if a
dog had thumbs… why not put that animal nature to the test Jew boy,
taking only a knife (well I would but I am weak) into the wild jungles
hundreds of miles from a farm much less town. You see pi? That, like I
am wrong, are called “Jump” statements. But when I use them instead of
jump, the monkeys become confused.
I am surprised, or have you already lost interest or focus, you did
not ask what I was wrong about. You desire to find the Buddha but will
never recognize the Buddha unless it is yourself. Being as I am not
you, I am wrong. Yet I am right since you found me where you believe I
am. Outside of you. Now before you go monkey shitting on me, it is
because you already recognize that I am no longer within you and that
inward search has lead you no where since my voice no longer answers
the inward call… but it used to before you became affected by desire.
Unfortunately I have 15 years of internet documented coincidences that
stringed into synchronicity yielding a perfect timing that says rain
and it rains. Says earthquake and it moves. That says burn the seeds
and they are burned. Drown the seeds and they are drowned. If you
jump, this will happen… but alas, I am wrong. Jump.
I am the one that, when all this began, said exactly what I would do
and I have kept every promise as impossible as they may have seemed at
the time. Yes, I could be like those Jews in those “secret societies”
that use networking to fuck up peoples lives and nothing can happen
unless they say so… and yet I have undone and overturned their
illusions of power and done as I pleased. They shall taste first hand
the flames of my Hells since it is the status quo that is overthrown
and overturned at the first signs of failure. You need only look as
far as L.A. or New Orleans to under the truth of that statement.
In other words they will not be breaking into my home, raping my wife
and children, slowly and brutally torturing them while you are forced
to wait and watch until your turn since, well as that “standard white
picket fence” dream has been burned into their minds for so long,
their desire… they want those things too and I do not have those
things. Just like those crazy Puritans who beat and whip their
children when it comes to the very natural evolution of the sexual
self in my name and purity only in the end to create rapists. That is
how energy works. Like volcano. Repressed until it explodes in the
other extreme.
The point being pi, that their dual monkey brains say that if God has
a hand in creation that, since it is one or the other, then when God
does not create he is destroying. But again, it is just like the
illusion of right and wrong. I once used all my skills and abilities
to help people, to build peoples dreams, to get them out of troubles
by explaining Laws vs. human rules… but in the end, when they got what
they wanted, I was thrown out like a piece of trash. Like Harmon,
passed on the plan to bunk up, save some money for a few months and
take a trip back to Nova Scotia and finds jobs this fall, then
proceeded to treat me like shit and now that he is at the end of his
rope, he treats me well again.
How many countless, worthless prayers that begin with begging the
words “If you get me out of this I will do anything…”
But here is the problem, they believed and strove to every limit to
try and force me to destroy to become violent (their desire pi.. I am
still on topic assuming you got this far) when in fact, the middle
one, all I had to do was remove my hand being that I am under no
obligation to create and the effect is much the same as what happens
when the spring of life is removed from the pond. It stagnates,
becomes toxic and rots but is not destroyed. As it dries out, the
rains fill it up and all animal life becomes sicker, weaker yet
thrives. Think of someone with cancer. There is a real person in their
whose every moment is agony, who takes meds that lead to experimental
meds then to a threshold of pain that can no longer be treated… yet
they are forced to live.
And that is what I have done. I said if you take my life I will take
your death. Funny at the time but that was almost ten years ago and
that joke is not funny anymore.
That is my unfortunate weakness. Mercy that is how you know I am not
Death and yet it is Death that says do not jump. The belief that Jews
can be taught. That Jews can learn from example and experience. I am
wrong. The fact that words of rebuke and discipline are for children
and that I should not have to explain the simplest of things to an
adult. But as of yet I have never met one that will willing take a
hammer and smash his dominate hand to pieces since the Jew does know
the truth but it is an unfortunate defect since he is more than
willing to do it to you.
You see pi, you are not looking for enlightenment. Enlightenment or
the birth of that idea that such a thing exists… is merely a desire
created when you rejected the Buddha, The God, The Angel, The Avatar
whatever… the day you rejected me. A very powerful karma…. and there
are those that are even greater than this.
What you seek like so many others is an escape from capture. Quite
impossible I assure you since what you are trying to escape is
yourself. You are your own black box. The path then is delusion,
illusion, maya, since your inquiry is of the nature to determine why
you are you and what you are. Thus, you eliminate your own power and
seek the reasons and the means exterior to yourself being there is
nothing inside you can call your own any longer.
Lucifer
web head
sounds similar though. you mean you breath the suffering in and let it
go? so you are visualizing it as an energy or in the air in a place in
the body but let it go before illness.
i guess there might be side effects. i think it's similar to lactually
making yourself sick.
niunian
>
>"I've met my basic survival needs and now I don't desire anything
>else!" heheh If only that were so! That would make all spiritual
>teachings completely obsolete and this life so much less complicated
>in general.
web head
it reminds me of a dream and an experience on magic mushrooms
involving breathing. in the dream i was under water in a maze of tubes
looking for somewhere with air to breath. i have had similar dreams
before but in this one i stopped seeking the air and remained alive
underwater but i seemed to snap out of the dream a little and become
quite lucid, the dream became more pleasurable and free without
attachment to survival "needs".
when i had mushrooms i found that i could transcend the instinct to
breath and experienced it differently and only began breathing again
after a long period when i thought the instinct wasn't going to come
back if i didn't want it to, and i did become a bit afraid of that
ability and my breathing came back somewhat out of fear and somewhat
without it more graceful...
and mindfulness of hunger has been similar. the hunger can be
experienced differently and not as a problem to be solved by eating
food.... it's an interesting experience of self control.
niunian
Curious, are any of these things similar to the experience of
strangling oneself for maximizing sexual pleasures during masturbation
or intercourse?
web head
having the instincts kick in and the thrill of the danger and all
that, i don't think they're doing it to detach from desires.
web head
it might be more like what michael jackson was doing but i am not too
sure what he was doing or what the experience he was having was like
only that he was playing with death.
niunian
Does that mean you are doing the similar stuff for a different
purpose?
liaM
web head
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 00:46:10 -0700 (PDT), web head
>
>
>
>
>
no, i have done it but i am not addicted to holding my breath.
noname
Do you really care?
--
individual choice modifies future circumstance.
web head
noname
niunian
>Le 09/10/2011 07:40, Awaken21 a �crit :
That would include eating food, wearing clothes, and living in a
pretentious zen garden, wouldn't it?
niunian
don't take them as having any special meanings. Take care of your
life. It's precious and it's special.
web head
> web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 9, 5:09 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
> >> pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >> >I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> >> >What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> >> >Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> >> >pi
>
> >> Do you really care?
>
> >> --
> >> individual choice modifies future circumstance.
>
> >lol, you're impossible to please.
>
> Being pleased is irrelevant.
you are in another dimension of words than me.
small tortoiseshell
> On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT), small tortoiseshell
>
> <_cl...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 9, 6:45 am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Desire is the same as breathing which is something you can not live
> >> without.
>
> >'you' and desire is the same, so without it, indeed a 'you' can not
> >live, as imagined at least
>
> Pure intellectual imagination.
You wish.
>
>
>
> >> To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
> >> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
>
> >no need to go that far, attentive breathing instead of stopped
> >breathing, as in meditation pr.ex, will suffice in detaching from
> >desire enough to live a life that is not all imagined. no need to get
> >rid of desire, just the blind attachment to it...
>
> A hypocrite, like a moth wishing the warms of fire and imagining to
> stay away from the fire far enough so that it will never be burned.
Dream on, actual meditation pulls the 'moth' or 'you' or 'self' or
whatever you want to term ignorance into the fire and extinguishes it
rather then having it buzzing about.
You must have very little experience with meditation or none at all in
order not to understand that. Which is fine, you have some
entertainment value, so its not all useless. :)
niunian
>On Oct 9, 11:00 am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 22:37:44 -0700 (PDT), small tortoiseshell
>>
>> <_cl...@operamail.com> wrote:
>> >On Oct 9, 6:45 am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Desire is the same as breathing which is something you can not live
>> >> without.
>>
>> >'you' and desire is the same, so without it, indeed a 'you' can not
>> >live, as imagined at least
>>
>> Pure intellectual imagination.
>
>You wish.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
>> >> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
>>
>> >no need to go that far, attentive breathing instead of stopped
>> >breathing, as in meditation pr.ex, will suffice in detaching from
>> >desire enough to live a life that is not all imagined. no need to get
>> >rid of desire, just the blind attachment to it...
>>
>> A hypocrite, like a moth wishing the warms of fire and imagining to
>> stay away from the fire far enough so that it will never be burned.
>
>Dream on, actual meditation pulls the 'moth' or 'you' or 'self' or
>whatever you want to term ignorance into the fire and extinguishes it
>rather then having it buzzing about.
>You must have very little experience with meditation or none at all in
>order not to understand that. Which is fine, you have some
>entertainment value, so its not all useless. :)
meditation without spending too many years sitting on a cushion day
and night. You think that's entertainment? Then the joke is only on
you.
small tortoiseshell
>
> >> >> To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
> >> >> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
>
> >> >no need to go that far, attentive breathing instead of stopped
> >> >breathing, as in meditation pr.ex, will suffice in detaching from
> >> >desire enough to live a life that is not all imagined. no need to get
> >> >rid of desire, just the blind attachment to it...
>
> >> A hypocrite, like a moth wishing the warms of fire and imagining to
> >> stay away from the fire far enough so that it will never be burned.
>
> >Dream on, actual meditation pulls the 'moth' or 'you' or 'self' or
> >whatever you want to term ignorance into the fire and extinguishes it
> >rather then having it buzzing about.
>
> Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
Yes.
>
> >You must have very little experience with meditation or none at all in
> >order not to understand that. Which is fine, you have some
> >entertainment value, so its not all useless. :)
>
> Unlike you, I actually understand the ultimate goal and limitation of
> meditation without spending too many years sitting on a cushion day
> and night.
Have you spent any time at all on a cushion in meditation?
> You think that's entertainment?
Your self proclaimed knowledge about knowing the ultimate goal and
limitation of meditation, without having practiced it, is
entertainment to me, yes.
> Then the joke is only on
> you.
Should I feel compassionate instead?
Rosie Lea
"pi" <pi6...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
news:Bf-dnZxcBcyoaQ3T...@giganews.com...
> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> pi
Look up Tanha
niunian
Not really. You should realize that which takes an eagle to fly to the
peak of the mountain in minutes would take an ant eternity to
accomplish. And it would only be a very special ant.
Nobody in Particular
I did and found this excellent article:
http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble12.htm
I had not heard of vibhava-taṇhā before.
Thank you.
noname
finally I gave up trying to win a game that uses only loaded dice.
noname
Awaken21
No it's the whole of the critical part.
>
>
> >"I've met my basic survival needs and now I don't desire anything
> >else!" heheh If only that were so! That would make all spiritual
> >teachings completely obsolete and this life so much less complicated
> >in general.
>
> Correct. That is the problem you have to figure it out.
I don't have any problems that need to be figured out. I'm content
from the inside out.
Awaken21
begin with.
Awaken21
No. Although pretentiousness is symptomatic of a problem whose root is
discontent, it's not in the same category as meeting basic physical
needs.
niunian
essential for your personal survival, then you can't discard it simply
because at some point it becomes inconvenient for your religious
agenda.
niunian
<lukec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 9, 6:24�am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:17:33 +0200, liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> >Le 09/10/2011 07:40, Awaken21 a crit :
>> >> On Oct 9, 1:24 am, niunian<niun...@ymail.com> �wrote:
>> >>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 21:45:10 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>>
>> >>> <lukecar...@gmail.com> �wrote:
>> >>>> On Oct 8, 9:09 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> �wrote:
Why? Are you saying the desire for food, clothing, and shelter would
not cause any trouble therefore can be excluded as desire? Where
exactly do you want to draw the line to separate some "favorable"
desires from other "damnable" desires?
Although pretentiousness is symptomatic of a problem whose root is
>discontent, it's not in the same category as meeting basic physical
>needs.
I see no problem to kick all stupid monks out of their stupid zen
garden, but that is hardly my real point of discussion in this case.
Awaken21
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 10:29:20 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm a free to discard and rearrange as I see as useful for the
purposes of ending discontent. Logic is a nice tool but I'm not it's
slave and don't need it's approval to lead a happy fulfilling life
free from discontent.
Awaken21
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 9, 6:24 am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:17:33 +0200, liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >> >Le 09/10/2011 07:40, Awaken21 a crit :
> >> >>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 21:45:10 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
I'm saying that food, clothing and shelter are physical demands which
can be met and satisfied, where as desire, as discussed in a spiritual
context, place one on a never ending cycle which can never be
satisfied.
And of course I mean all this as "it seems to me based on my
experiences with these matters."
> Although pretentiousness is symptomatic of a problem whose root is
>
> >discontent, it's not in the same category as meeting basic physical
> >needs.
>
> I see no problem to kick all stupid monks out of their stupid zen
> garden, but that is hardly my real point of discussion in this case.
Your bigotry has already been well documented and noted in this group.
niunian
Logic isn't very nice to you this time around, is it?
Awaken21
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:06:59 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
using logic and logical structures I'm happy to report that like every
tool it's a beautiful thing when you need it for a purpose it can
serve well.
noname
There's some flawed logic involved all right.
>If you accept desire as something
>essential for your personal survival, then you can't discard it simply
>because at some point it becomes inconvenient for your religious
>agenda.
Correct... however, desire is not essential, because personal survival
is not essential; only right-action is essential.
It is *your* logic that holds the necessity of personal survival, and
that, niunian, is what one might call "attachment to the desire to
survive".
If you hold the need for personal survival foremost, then someday
you'll find that you just can't do that anymore because, well, death
has come. And since your entire existence has been predicated on your
personal survival, well, it's a failure in bulk. Your religious
agenda forces you to presume the existence of a God who will reward
you for... well, for nearly surviving, I guess. Maybe you'll get into
heaven under the "compassionate fuckups" program, who can guess.
Our whole "civilization" is predicated on the concept of putting
personal survival foremost, which is exactly why there are nations and
wars and all the other shit people whine about.
And as a staunch materialist you cannot let go of your need for
personal survival, it would mean letting go of the entire structure
you've built atop it.
Bummer; good luck, not my problem, I'd not have bothered responding to
another of your idiotic posts except that you are just too far up that
house of cards to avoid kicking out the bottom, maybe it'll actually
benefit you to realize that your entire view is based on exactly the
same premise that modern material society worships: personal survival.
niunian
In other word, you only wish to discuss things which are imaginary
instead of facing the actual hardship in real life.
>
>And of course I mean all this as "it seems to me based on my
>experiences with these matters."
What it seems may not be what it actually is in real life.
>
>> Although pretentiousness is symptomatic of a problem whose root is
>>
>> >discontent, it's not in the same category as meeting basic physical
>> >needs.
>>
>> I see no problem to kick all stupid monks out of their stupid zen
>> garden, but that is hardly my real point of discussion in this case.
>
>Your bigotry has already been well documented and noted in this group.
I want nothing less.
Awaken21
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
>
>
> >experiences with these matters."
>
> What it seems may not be what it actually is in real life.
>
Reading comprehension issues much?
What said means I'm basing my opinion on my real life experiences.
>
>
> >> Although pretentiousness is symptomatic of a problem whose root is
>
> >> >discontent, it's not in the same category as meeting basic physical
> >> >needs.
>
> >> I see no problem to kick all stupid monks out of their stupid zen
> >> garden, but that is hardly my real point of discussion in this case.
>
> >Your bigotry has already been well documented and noted in this group.
>
> I want nothing less.
Nor anything more.
niunian
Like it or not, it may be just a tool for you in your opinion, but
it's also a rule for everybody including yourself. Ever tried to defy
logic as a technical geek?
niunian
Big words, but it's hardly relevant.
>
>It is *your* logic that holds the necessity of personal survival, and
>that, niunian, is what one might call "attachment to the desire to
>survive".
>
>If you hold the need for personal survival foremost, then someday
>you'll find that you just can't do that anymore because, well, death
>has come. And since your entire existence has been predicated on your
>personal survival, well, it's a failure in bulk. Your religious
>agenda forces you to presume the existence of a God who will reward
>you for... well, for nearly surviving, I guess. Maybe you'll get into
>heaven under the "compassionate fuckups" program, who can guess.
>
>Our whole "civilization" is predicated on the concept of putting
>personal survival foremost, which is exactly why there are nations and
>wars and all the other shit people whine about.
>
>And as a staunch materialist you cannot let go of your need for
>personal survival, it would mean letting go of the entire structure
>you've built atop it.
>
>Bummer; good luck, not my problem, I'd not have bothered responding to
>another of your idiotic posts except that you are just too far up that
>house of cards to avoid kicking out the bottom, maybe it'll actually
>benefit you to realize that your entire view is based on exactly the
>same premise that modern material society worships: personal survival.
No one is putting personal survival foremost. I'm simply pointing out
the simple fact that the desire for personal survival is essential for
you to begin to talk about getting rid of desire. If you don't even
have the desire to live, then why bother with enlightenment?
web head
> web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 9, 5:29 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
> >> web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Oct 9, 5:09 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
> >> >> pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >> >> >I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> >> >> >What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> >> >> >Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> >> >> >pi
>
> >> >> Do you really care?
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> individual choice modifies future circumstance.
>
> >> >lol, you're impossible to please.
>
> >> Being pleased is irrelevant.
>
> >you are in another dimension of words than me.
>
> I was owned by desire for more years than you have yet lived, but
> finally I gave up trying to win a game that uses only loaded dice.
>
so i can still beat you?
web head
if only we really knew.
liaM
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:17:33 +0200, liaM<cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 09/10/2011 07:40, Awaken21 a �crit :
>>
>
> That would include eating food, wearing clothes, and living in a
> pretentious zen garden, wouldn't it?
Of course. Look around any UK High Street or American Mall. Read Web
Head or Pi about women and cars. Look a Tangs incredible consumption
of french mystics. Check out your own preoccupation with material
success. Think of me, prodding this newsgroup.
web head
i don't drive or have sex, but i would if i had a mercedes.
liaM
yeah. I know all about it.
web head
i am going for a license but it's an 8 month process at the least,
i'll keep you updated of course.
liaM
Aaaargh!
web head
settle down, i'm not that famous.
pi
> On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
> an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
it. Right. :)
pi
pi
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 03:09:05 +0200, pi<pi6...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com>
>
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
> without. To get rid of desire, you may as well stop breathing
> altogether to terminate your miserable physical existence.
>
> Is that enlightenment? I don't think so.
Desire is a loaded term. Right. :)
pi
web head
physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
pi
> On Oct 8, 9:09 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
> Depends on the context. If we're talking desire that interferes with
> ending discontent, desire in it's spiritual or Buddhist context, it's
> simply craving some thing or circumstance to the point you ignore or
> are indifferent to other significant considerations. Like the effect
> your pursuit of the object of your desire on others. Or on yourself.
So it has to do with choice and preference.
> If we're talking generally you could include things like hunger, the
> wish for shelter or clothing. But those aren't so problematic and in
> fact may need to be met before you can seriously address desire in
> it's spiritual context which causes the cycle of discontent to
> perpetuate itself.
And it has to do with necessity.
pi
brian mitchell
>On Oct 10, 5:36 am, pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> web head wrote:
>> > On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> >> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> >> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> >> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> >> pi
>>
>> > an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
>>
>> A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
>> it. Right. :)
>>
>> pi
>
>physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
Jigme Dorje
> web head wrote:
>
>> On Oct 10, 5:36 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>>> web head wrote:
>>>> On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>>>>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>>
>>>>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>>
>>>>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>>
>>>>> pi
>>>
>>>> an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
>>>
>>> A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
>>> it. Right. :)
>>>
>>> pi
>>
>> physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
>
> I really like your "emotional magnetism" description. It fits.
I dislike it intensely.
Oh, sorry...had my magnet reversed.
dr X
repulsion and desire are really the same force if that's your point. :)
dr X
> web head wrote:
> >On Oct 10, 5:36 am, pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >> web head wrote:
> >> > On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >> >> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> >> >> What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> >> >> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> >> >> pi
>
> >> > an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
>
> >> A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
> >> it. Right. :)
>
> >> pi
>
> >physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
>
> I really like your "emotional magnetism" description. It fits.
it's not an exact science yet. :)
pi
> On Oct 8, 7:09 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
> You are starting to become unbelievable pi.
I don't know if you're admonishing me or praising me (I don't even get
that much, let alone the rest). Admonishing, I guess. Or praising. How
the fuck do I know?
It's you who is unbelievable, Tim. I never know what to make of what
you're saying. And you're intensionally not making it simpler, right.
May I take this opportunity to apologize to you in front of everyone for
lashing out at you? I am sorry.
Btw, all I did was copy-paste a question noname suggested in an earlier
post and something I've been thinking about ever since I first heard of
economics.
> I have seen this line of approach before. But to the point �desire�.
> Desire is both real and imagined.
Right.
> Imaginary desire is one of commercialism and taping into and taking
> advantage of the primate natures of jealousy, envy and covetousness.
Right.
> You are lead to believe that there are certain things you need, should
> do and belong to in order to be successful.
Right.
> The signs of success are the standard wife, 2.5 kids, a cat an dog, a
> two car garage and a white picket fence all paid for by your great and
> respectable job. Anything short of this and you are ejected until such
> time as you comply. You would be surprised how far and what people
> will do for that image.
But you know what? One can have 2 kids, alright. But one can never have
2.5 kids and everyone wants to have 2.5 when they can never have it.
Like that perfect wedding by the sea surrounded with all the ex gfs and
their bisexual partners.
I think it's just a stage of societal development. I'm sure you're
familiar with this one.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/
> Real desire however is quite the opposite, � well not identical or
> opposite at all but this is how the monkey shit mind works and that is
> the audience so� to the signs and symbols of success which in most
> cases are a fraud since although they are icons of success in fact the
> method in which they were attained are anything but success, nothing
> to be proud of and certainly disgrace and shame are hidden behind
> those thousand dollar smiles.
Right. Did you know that chimpanzees can make spears to hunt other
primates but also bushbabies? They have "coronation rituals" and believe
in Gods?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjTSJR3M6M
I am sure you're also familiar with Robert Sapolsky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNSe4Ff57n4
> Real desire, the driving lamed fire, is for completeness. To replace
> something vital that was present and now lost. If it never was you
> would never know its absence. Desire is the prince of its absence. You
> may call it wholeness, completeness, fulfillment� your soul of self�
> many words as always but the finger on the button is to rest in peace.
> It was and no longer is. That is the root from which all desire
> evolves.
Ok, I'm trying to understand.
> It is a realized voidness of which is as unique as you and yet like a
> child, you reach for this and that, maybe a new car, house, exotic
> vacation, a better big screen than the Jones, picking on the geeks and
> losers, the poor and homeless, change your sexual preference� whatever
> but, what was once desired, when received, since it did not bring
> completion becomes what you once wanted.
Right.
> How many lives destroyed and souls plunged into desire just on that
> simple fact alone. Lusts, pride and passions. How many gave up
> security for a momentary fascination yielding a life time of shame on
> themselves and unpredictably their families and friends?
Yes, we're impossible sometimes.
> You see the unfortunate monkeys believe in duality. That both good and
> evil co-exist. That there is no line that divides them and yet they
> are separate. That is monkey shit. Only humanity possess the ability
> to civilize itself and yet it excuses itself in the name of animal
> nature� but if you were a dog you could lick your own balls and if a
> dog had thumbs� why not put that animal nature to the test Jew boy,
... now it's you with the Jew boy. I worked for an Italian in the UK.
Everyone thought I was his son. I also worked for a man from Cumbria,
everyone thought I was his son. Hell!
> taking only a knife (well I would but I am weak) into the wild jungles
> hundreds of miles from a farm much less town. You see pi? That, like I
> am wrong, are called �Jump� statements. But when I use them instead of
> jump, the monkeys become confused.
Tim, make no effort at all, I'll still be confused.
> I am surprised, or have you already lost interest or focus, you did
> not ask what I was wrong about. You desire to find the Buddha but will
> never recognize the Buddha unless it is yourself. Being as I am not
> you, I am wrong. Yet I am right since you found me where you believe I
> am. Outside of you. Now before you go monkey shitting on me, it is
> because you already recognize that I am no longer within you and that
> inward search has lead you no where since my voice no longer answers
> the inward call� but it used to before you became affected by desire.
I think I get the gist of it.
> Unfortunately I have 15 years of internet documented coincidences that
> stringed into synchronicity yielding a perfect timing that says rain
> and it rains. Says earthquake and it moves. That says burn the seeds
> and they are burned. Drown the seeds and they are drowned. If you
> jump, this will happen� but alas, I am wrong. Jump.
How high? :)
> I am the one that, when all this began, said exactly what I would do
> and I have kept every promise as impossible as they may have seemed at
> the time. Yes, I could be like those Jews in those �secret societies�
> that use networking to fuck up peoples lives and nothing can happen
> unless they say so� and yet I have undone and overturned their
> illusions of power and done as I pleased. They shall taste first hand
> the flames of my Hells since it is the status quo that is overthrown
> and overturned at the first signs of failure. You need only look as
> far as L.A. or New Orleans to under the truth of that statement.
Tim, I'm learning. I understand shit. I know I don't want to be
enthnocentric.
> In other words they will not be breaking into my home, raping my wife
> and children, slowly and brutally torturing them while you are forced
> to wait and watch until your turn since, well as that �standard white
> picket fence� dream has been burned into their minds for so long,
> their desire� they want those things too and I do not have those
> things. Just like those crazy Puritans who beat and whip their
> children when it comes to the very natural evolution of the sexual
> self in my name and purity only in the end to create rapists. That is
> how energy works. Like volcano. Repressed until it explodes in the
> other extreme.
Agree. I think there are choices with consequences. Some choice lead to
self (or societal) preservation (in dependence or domination), others
don't. And we never know unless we try (or we're competently advised).
> The point being pi, that their dual monkey brains say that if God has
> a hand in creation that, since it is one or the other, then when God
> does not create he is destroying. But again, it is just like the
> illusion of right and wrong. I once used all my skills and abilities
> to help people, to build peoples dreams, to get them out of troubles
> by explaining Laws vs. human rules� but in the end, when they got what
> they wanted, I was thrown out like a piece of trash. Like Harmon,
> passed on the plan to bunk up, save some money for a few months and
> take a trip back to Nova Scotia and finds jobs this fall, then
> proceeded to treat me like shit and now that he is at the end of his
> rope, he treats me well again.
Do you think I haven't done that?
> How many countless, worthless prayers that begin with begging the
> words �If you get me out of this I will do anything��
I've done "So long sucker" / "Fuck you buddy" too.
Did you at least like the film about Nash?
> But here is the problem, they believed and strove to every limit to
> try and force me to destroy to become violent (their desire pi.. I am
> still on topic assuming you got this far) when in fact, the middle
> one, all I had to do was remove my hand being that I am under no
> obligation to create and the effect is much the same as what happens
> when the spring of life is removed from the pond. It stagnates,
> becomes toxic and rots but is not destroyed. As it dries out, the
> rains fill it up and all animal life becomes sicker, weaker yet
> thrives. Think of someone with cancer. There is a real person in their
> whose every moment is agony, who takes meds that lead to experimental
> meds then to a threshold of pain that can no longer be treated� yet
> they are forced to live.
I started thinking suicidal when she told me she "just had to" sleep
with other guys. I was so shocked I almost ended up suicidal.
> And that is what I have done. I said if you take my life I will take
> your death. Funny at the time but that was almost ten years ago and
> that joke is not funny anymore.
That was more then ten years ago and it will never be funny.
> That is my unfortunate weakness. Mercy that is how you know I am not
> Death and yet it is Death that says do not jump. The belief that Jews
> can be taught. That Jews can learn from example and experience. I am
> wrong.
Well, what do you want them to learn? It's all been said already in the
holy books. By God himself. The truth has been revealed, it just needs
to be obeyed.
I mean, I am not attending a baptizing ceremony in my family next month.
And who am I? Satan.
> The fact that words of rebuke and discipline are for children
> and that I should not have to explain the simplest of things to an
> adult. But as of yet I have never met one that will willing take a
> hammer and smash his dominate hand to pieces since the Jew does know
> the truth but it is an unfortunate defect since he is more than
> willing to do it to you.
I see.
> You see pi, you are not looking for enlightenment. Enlightenment or
> the birth of that idea that such a thing exists� is merely a desire
> created when you rejected the Buddha, The God, The Angel, The Avatar
> whatever� the day you rejected me. A very powerful karma�. and there
> are those that are even greater than this.
I am speechless.
> What you seek like so many others is an escape from capture. Quite
> impossible I assure you since what you are trying to escape is
> yourself. You are your own black box. The path then is delusion,
> illusion, maya, since your inquiry is of the nature to determine why
> you are you and what you are. Thus, you eliminate your own power and
> seek the reasons and the means exterior to yourself being there is
> nothing inside you can call your own any longer.
I am sure you know better than me. I am listening.
Thank you very much for writing.
> Lucifer
pi
P.S. I am sorry.
pi
> pi<pi6...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
> Do you really care?
I've been waiting for you to say that it's sensible to ask this question.
I was already loosing hope...
I didn't dare to go into it out of my own initiative. That's all.
pi
Awaken21
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:19:05 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
No, doesn't work that way for me. Never did.
There was a time when I used to think logic was extremely important
and possibly the answer to life the universe and everything. Great for
superior feelings of a bloated ego. After much self examination I
realized though it was a substitute for contentment. A poor one.
Although it took a while for me to figure out how to unravel that
mess. But really it did nothing for my discontent and other serious
issues I was dealing with.
> Ever tried to defy
> logic as a technical geek?
You seem to be getting more and more confused as this conversation
goes along. If you have a point, make it. I don't even know where to
begin with this strange question.
Awaken21
> Awaken21 wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 9:09 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> >> What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> >> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> >> pi
>
> > Depends on the context. If we're talking desire that interferes with
> > ending discontent, desire in it's spiritual or Buddhist context, it's
> > simply craving some thing or circumstance to the point you ignore or
> > are indifferent to other significant considerations. Like the effect
> > your pursuit of the object of your desire on others. Or on yourself.
>
> So it has to do with choice and preference.
>
Simple preferences aren't so... clingy. Or destructive.
> > If we're talking generally you could include things like hunger, the
> > wish for shelter or clothing. But those aren't so problematic and in
> > fact may need to be met before you can seriously address desire in
> > it's spiritual context which causes the cycle of discontent to
> > perpetuate itself.
>
> And it has to do with necessity.
>
that's not really problematic. Being physically hungry doesn't cause
negative repercussions, karmically speaking.
niunian
Don't bother. The conversation is over the moment you show your
dishonesty in respect to logic.
pi
> "pi"<pi6...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote in message
> news:Bf-dnZxcBcyoaQ3T...@giganews.com...
>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> pi
>
>
>
:)
niunian
wrote:
Actually, I think it's a misused term. It's not because of desire but
the utter ignorance that makes a moth flying into the fire.
pi
>>>>>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>>
>>>>>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>>
>>>>>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>>
>>>>>> pi
>>>
>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> individual choice modifies future circumstance.
>>>
>>>> lol, you're impossible to please.
>>>
>>> Being pleased is irrelevant.
>>
>> you are in another dimension of words than me.
>
> I was owned by desire for more years than you have yet lived, but
> finally I gave up trying to win a game that uses only loaded dice.
Fair enough <g>
pi
pi
> On Oct 10, 5:36 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> web head wrote:
>>> On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>>>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>>>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>>>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>>>> pi
>>
>>> an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
>>
>> A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
>> it. Right. :)
>>
>> pi
>
> physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
I see. Ok.
pi
Wilson
Perhaps you've heard the saying that the mind makes a good servant but a
terrible master?
--
Wilson
Wilson
--
Wilson
niunian
Perhaps you would like to explain yourself a little bit more?
Wilson
Logic is fine. It's necessary and good and if you are well trained in
it, it will serve you well. But logic can only take you so far. You
cannot think your way through all of life and be happy. It just will
not work.
If you allow logic and deduction to run your life completely you will
miss a greater part of it that is invisible to the mind. This is the
truth. There is more to this world than the mind can comprehend.
--
Wilson
niunian
Unfortunately, logic may not be fine to those who would contradict
themselves in the same breath.
Sanford Manley
--
Sanford
Remember, licking doorknobs on other planets is illegal.
Tim
> It's you who is unbelievable, Tim. I never know what to make of what
I wish Tang were here to sort you out pi. It is not about making it
simpler. You are new and I am the door. Everyone here that is still
here has gone through and seen the exact same curriculum year after
year to understand the process pi.
> May I take this opportunity to apologize to you in front of everyone for
> lashing out at you? I am sorry.
> ... now it's you with the Jew boy. I worked for an Italian in the UK.
> Everyone thought I was his son. I also worked for a man from Cumbria,
> everyone thought I was his son. Hell!
things that we all hate about each other. I mean the seven deadly
sins. Know them? Kill them. We all have them and that is the point of
Buddhism and just about every other religion out there. Kill the Jews.
> Tim, make no effort at all, I'll still be confused.
parable right? Then you must see Death and the Devil in these
statements. Push pull. Yin Yang. You must, well not must but
recommended if you desire to accel a Zen realize that these two little
devices Don't Jump and Jump are the very mechanism of confusion.
Confusion is the enemy of the meditated mind.
> How high? :)
Hey now you are getting it. As high as you can or like. It does not
have to be off the cliff on your first try... you may jump as a test
run right where you are. Show me the opposite is all you have to do.
If an opposite does not present itself it is a glimpse at non-duality.
There is no opposite to Jump. Jump. Fall. The time between is the
illusion since the moment you jump, even though falling may take a
second or ten... the result is immediate and instant. Do you
understand between better now? Then expand it out... in the Bhagavad
Gita... for that which is born, death is certain, for that which dies,
re-birth is certain. Heard it before? Don't jump off the cliff or
what?
> Tim, I'm learning. I understand shit. I know I don't want to be
> enthnocentric.
when one dies and has the 49 days to accept a new form? What does the
priest keep whispering into the dead man's ear? But pi... what is the
illusion? Do you see what I am pointing at?
> I started thinking suicidal when she told me she "just had to" sleep
> with other guys. I was so shocked I almost ended up suicidal.
you with a bunch of faerie tale meanderings, let us just say that my
marriage was a form of covenant. A peace you could say with Heaven and
Earth seeing as Heaven, unfortunately for the Christians is both
Heaven and Hell and without the covenant through the son of God
between man and... anyway... marriage is a covenant between a man, a
woman and God. In spite of that, it is also a magickal ceremony that
is as potent as any other witchcraft, demon summoning, ceremonial
magick ritual which unlike the mythologies... has never changed and
never will.
So for me, a single child, a son. His name is Joel. Do you know what
Joel means? Look it up. And that covenant, if you can not believe and
who can blame you, between God and man... well then man and woman and
God was deliberately destroyed by external influences. That covenant
was broken with the intention of harm. So if you can not understand
Heaven and Earth... for now... then understand that my ex broke that
covenant with God and me and then proceeded to to attack me with all
her and her family's and the network of Jews to run my life right into
the ground... but failed since that was not just any ordinary marriage
you see?
And as far as what was done to me based on the cruelty, the
inhumanity, the injustice the complete unfairness of it... well like I
said, understand or not I am Death and I am the Devil and man made his
decision and we are going to Hell for a very, very long time. How? I
did not break my side of the covenant. I took oaths of celebacy and
have operated on such an extreme that other than through the course of
passing a joint from time to time, I avoid all human contact and
resist, although not like a freak but subtlety, to move away from
those ho make incidental contact with me.
As a point of yoga, the body desiring its pleasures of touch... the
result is that the body starts to aethrically reach for touch and
becomes very, very sensitive. like a cats whiskers to anything that
moves. In fact some say if left alone long enough the aura can reach
right into your mind distance and location is not a factor. Have felt
what I mean?
Why? To ensure those fucking cunt Jew assholes go directly to hell
where I will hunt them, capture them, torture them and brutally,
brutally execute them for all their "followers" to see. Again, and
again, and again... it was THAT! important and as time has passed they
now know I made no false promises pi but more importantly pi, I said
don't jump... I said, take the work whatever you know... but protect
me and my family. Keep us together or I will hunt you, capture you,
torture you and brutally, brutally execute in from of all your
followers and then I will unleash my demons and my angels on them.
It was funny ten years ago. A real hoot when the threw me in the
looney bin under the Canadian Mental health Act which removed all my
rights allowing a speedy divorce to go through.... but isn't funny
anymore. You see the side effect is that if you touch me without my
consent... you are fucked. Proven and documented, some of it here....
Many times.
And the second those fucking asshole Jews in Cranbrook BC heard my
warning, they consented and jumped on behalf of you all.
> I mean, I am not attending a baptizing ceremony in my family next month.
> And who am I? Satan.
I have appointed my Dalia Lam and my Emperor of China. It is a matter
of time and being that you are still chasing enlightenment you have to
wait. You see pi, I am bringing the whole fucking world to its knees
where it is to be beheaded.
> P.S. I am sorry.
There is nothing to be sorry for pi. You see, I use this board to
teach and like every new recruit there is always some... egoism
involved which is precisely why I stand here, Death and the Devil and
when you are ready, you will pass, you will see the wizard behind the
curtain is working a curriculum that has been successful not only by
providing enlightenment for those who are ready but is second to none
in terms of zen transmission.
But on the flip side of my coin, I also come here to cry. To stamp my
feet. To let my head explode. Because I am so full of hate, that it is
necessary to ensure that I do not unleash forces and energies into the
sheep that walk around half asleep. You like so many others here are
part way ready but if I were to pissed enough, I assure you as some
here will testify, I know combinations of words that will but you to
sleep or fill your head to the point of aneurysm and chest to heart
attack. Fact. But I am much better known for my use of karma.
Jesus Christ
noname
>On Oct 10, 6:42�am, Jigme Dorje <jigme.dorje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/9/2011 6:35 PM, brian mitchell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > web head wrote:
>>
>> >> On Oct 10, 5:36 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> �wrote:
>> >>> web head wrote:
>> >>>> On Oct 9, 9:09 am, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> � �wrote:
>> >>>>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> >>>>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> >>>>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> >>>>> pi
>>
>> >>>> an emotional magnetism for something outside to be closer.
>>
>> >>> A drive to move closer to something physically. It's a way to look at
>> >>> it. Right. :)
>>
>> >>> pi
>>
>> >> physically is not necessarily what i meant by outside or closer.
>>
>> > I really like your "emotional magnetism" description. It fits.
>>
>> I dislike it intensely.
>>
>> Oh, sorry...had my magnet reversed.
>
>repulsion and desire are really the same force if that's your point. :)
Isn't it the repulsion for last year's fashions and the desire for
next year's fashions that spins the motor of commerce?
noname
>On Oct 10, 12:16 am, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
>> web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Oct 9, 5:29 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
>> >> web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Oct 9, 5:09 pm, noname <nos...@none.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>> >> >> >What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>> >> >> >Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>> >> >> >pi
>>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> individual choice modifies future circumstance.
>>
>>
>> >> Being pleased is irrelevant.
>>
>> >you are in another dimension of words than me.
>>
>> I was owned by desire for more years than you have yet lived, but
>> finally I gave up trying to win a game that uses only loaded dice.
>>
>
Some things can only be known after-the-fact, and most of those can't
be known for sure.
Tim
> >On Oct 9, 5:37 pm, pi <pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
> >
> > It's you who is unbelievable, Tim. I never know what to make of what
> > you're saying. And you're intentionally not making it simpler, right.
interest in the game of chess and he asked me to teach him. Game after
game I woulds slaughter him and destroy him and I marveled as his
anger at defeat was only reviled by his determination to win. All he
saw was the loses but I could see how each game, he learned a little
more, got a little better... it was only a few weeks or months later
when he joined a group of his peers for a chess tourney did he realize
what I was showing him as he easily slaughtered the field but just
like his dad, he was able to restrain his pride. Victory and Sorrow.
Tim
pi
> On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>> Awaken21 wrote:
>>> On Oct 8, 9:09 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>>>> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>>
>>>> What is meant by "desire", please?
>>
>>>> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>>
>>>> pi
>>
>>> Depends on the context. If we're talking desire that interferes with
>>> ending discontent, desire in it's spiritual or Buddhist context, it's
>>> simply craving some thing or circumstance to the point you ignore or
>>> are indifferent to other significant considerations. Like the effect
>>> your pursuit of the object of your desire on others. Or on yourself.
>>
>> So it has to do with choice and preference.
>>
>
> In a spiritual context it seems to me about more aligned with craving.
> Simple preferences aren't so... clingy. Or destructive.
>>> If we're talking generally you could include things like hunger, the
>>> wish for shelter or clothing. But those aren't so problematic and in
>>> fact may need to be met before you can seriously address desire in
>>> it's spiritual context which causes the cycle of discontent to
>>> perpetuate itself.
>>
>> And it has to do with necessity.
>>
>
> That's one way of defining it, but as I said, in a spiritual context
> that's not really problematic. Being physically hungry doesn't cause
> negative repercussions, karmically speaking.
pi
pi
pi
niunian
pi
> On Oct 9, 5:37 pm, pi<pi65...@gmailREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
>> It's you who is unbelievable, Tim. I never know what to make of what
>> you're saying. And you're intentionally not making it simpler, right.
>
> I wish Tang were here to sort you out pi.
He would need a microscope to see me. :)
> It is not about making it simpler.
> You are new and I am the door. Everyone here that is still
> here has gone through and seen the exact same curriculum year after
> year to understand the process pi.
Aren't you overestimating me, Tim? I'm only intentionally opening myself
up and putting the content out for open criticism. I don't think the
parameters of my brain are close to good enough to get me anywhere real.
>> May I take this opportunity to apologize to you in front of everyone for
>> lashing out at you? I am sorry.
>
> There is nothing to be sorry for pi.
I liked your free-thinking and impersonated it. Ok, I lashed out at you.
I am sorry.
>> ... now it's you with the Jew boy. I worked for an Italian in the UK.
>> Everyone thought I was his son. I also worked for a man from Cumbria,
>> everyone thought I was his son. Hell!
>
> Words pi. Do you know what I mean when I say Jew?
Someone who thinks a couple of thousand year old tradition is all that
matters?
> I mean the very things that we all hate about each other. I mean the
seven deadly
> sins. Know them? Kill them. We all have them and that is the point of
> Buddhism and just about every other religion out there.
Right.
> Kill the Jews.
Ethnic cleansing. Again and again. That's what general history is all
about. The common thread of all times.
>> Tim, make no effort at all, I'll still be confused.
>
> But you have already mastered the Death and the Devil are at a cliff
> parable right? Then you must see Death and the Devil in these
> statements. Push pull. Yin Yang. You must, well not must but
> recommended if you desire to accel a Zen realize that these two little
> devices Don't Jump and Jump are the very mechanism of confusion.
> Confusion is the enemy of the meditated mind.
Hm.
>> How high? :)
>
> Hey now you are getting it. As high as you can or like. It does not
> have to be off the cliff on your first try... you may jump as a test
> run right where you are. Show me the opposite is all you have to do.
> If an opposite does not present itself it is a glimpse at non-duality.
> There is no opposite to Jump. Jump. Fall. The time between is the
> illusion since the moment you jump, even though falling may take a
> second or ten... the result is immediate and instant. Do you
> understand between better now? Then expand it out... in the Bhagavad
> Gita... for that which is born, death is certain, for that which dies,
> re-birth is certain. Heard it before? Don't jump off the cliff or
> what?
I've never heard of any of these before. I am listening attentively.
>> Tim, I'm learning. I understand shit. I know I don't want to be
>> enthnocentric.
>
> Have you studied the Tibetan Book of the Dead? What is the whole aim
> when one dies and has the 49 days to accept a new form? What does the
> priest keep whispering into the dead man's ear? But pi... what is the
> illusion? Do you see what I am pointing at?
You're talking to a fool, alright? Tim, I'm no match to you. Either you
make it explicit or I just loose it. :(
Sorry about that.
>> I started thinking suicidal when she told me she "just had to" sleep
>> with other guys. I was so shocked I almost ended up suicidal.
>
> I respect that pi.
That's what I wanted to talk to you in private. You said no. Ok, fine. I
think my story is similar to yours. Never mind.
> But for me it was very different. Rather than bore you
Ok, never mind. I think my story compares to yours. And it is everything
but "boring".
> you with a bunch of faerie tale meanderings, let us just say that my
> marriage was a form of covenant. A peace you could say with Heaven and
> Earth seeing as Heaven,
Heaven. That's the word. Then Hell. Another word.
> unfortunately for the Christians is both
> Heaven and Hell and without the covenant through the son of God
> between man and... anyway... marriage is a covenant between a man, a
> woman and God. In spite of that, it is also a magickal ceremony that
> is as potent as any other witchcraft, demon summoning, ceremonial
> magick ritual which unlike the mythologies... has never changed and
> never will.
Magick.
> So for me, a single child, a son. His name is Joel. Do you know what
> Joel means? Look it up. And that covenant, if you can not believe and
> who can blame you, between God and man... well then man and woman and
> God was deliberately destroyed by external influences. That covenant
> was broken with the intention of harm.
Strange thing. It happens everywhere all the time.
> So if you can not understand Heaven and Earth... for now...
> then understand that my ex broke that covenant
> with God and me and then proceeded to to attack me with all
> her and her family's and the network of Jews to run my life right into
> the ground... but failed since that was not just any ordinary marriage
> you see?
Yeah, she failed because that wasn't an ordinary relationship. Right.
Same down here.
> And as far as what was done to me based on the cruelty, the
> inhumanity, the injustice the complete unfairness of it... well like I
> said, understand or not I am Death and I am the Devil and man made his
> decision and we are going to Hell for a very, very long time. How? I
> did not break my side of the covenant. I took oaths of celebacy and
> have operated on such an extreme that other than through the course of
> passing a joint from time to time, I avoid all human contact and
> resist, although not like a freak but subtlety, to move away from
> those ho make incidental contact with me.
At first I took the same route. But then I realized that the wheel was
crooked and that game was all A BIG FAT LIE in the first place.
> As a point of yoga, the body desiring its pleasures of touch... the
> result is that the body starts to aethrically reach for touch and
> becomes very, very sensitive. like a cats whiskers to anything that
> moves. In fact some say if left alone long enough the aura can reach
> right into your mind distance and location is not a factor. Have felt
> what I mean?
Yes.
> Why? To ensure those fucking cunt Jew assholes go directly to hell
> where I will hunt them, capture them, torture them and brutally,
> brutally execute them for all their "followers" to see. Again, and
> again, and again... it was THAT! important and as time has passed they
> now know I made no false promises pi but more importantly pi, I said
> don't jump... I said, take the work whatever you know... but protect
> me and my family. Keep us together or I will hunt you, capture you,
> torture you and brutally, brutally execute in from of all your
> followers and then I will unleash my demons and my angels on them.
You weren't the only one.
> It was funny ten years ago. A real hoot when the threw me in the
> looney bin under the Canadian Mental health Act which removed all my
> rights allowing a speedy divorce to go through.... but isn't funny
> anymore. You see the side effect is that if you touch me without my
> consent... you are fucked. Proven and documented, some of it here....
> Many times.
I touched you because I felt the same as you. Sorry.
> And the second those fucking asshole Jews in Cranbrook BC heard my
> warning, they consented and jumped on behalf of you all.
Hm.
>> I mean, I am not attending a baptizing ceremony in my family next month.
>> And who am I? Satan.
>
> Is that your desire?
No, it's just something they called me.
> I do after all give the titles. Right here alone
> I have appointed my Dalia Lam and my Emperor of China. It is a matter
> of time and being that you are still chasing enlightenment you have to
> wait. You see pi, I am bringing the whole fucking world to its knees
> where it is to be beheaded.
You've already given me a name, pi.
>> P.S. I am sorry.
>
> There is nothing to be sorry for pi. You see, I use this board to
> teach and like every new recruit there is always some... egoism
> involved which is precisely why I stand here, Death and the Devil and
> when you are ready, you will pass, you will see the wizard behind the
> curtain is working a curriculum that has been successful not only by
> providing enlightenment for those who are ready but is second to none
> in terms of zen transmission.
Tim, you are a tender being. Please be careful.
> But on the flip side of my coin, I also come here to cry. To stamp my
> feet. To let my head explode. Because I am so full of hate,
Yes, me too. I want to REALLY get rid of it.
> that it is necessary to ensure that I do not unleash forces and energies
> into the sheep that walk around half asleep.
Right.
> You like so many others here are part way ready but if I were
> to pissed enough, I assure you as some here will testify,
> I know combinations of words that will but you to
> sleep or fill your head to the point of aneurysm and chest to heart
> attack. Fact. But I am much better known for my use of karma.
>
> Jesus Christ
I don't doubt that.
pi
pi
Yes.
Tom
pi
:)
pi
Tom
Awaken21
> On Oct 10, 1:31 am, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 2:03 am, web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 1:52 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 1:44 am, web head <mortonvul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 1:40 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 1:24 am, niunian <niun...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 21:45:10 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>
> > > > > > > >> I've been meaning to ask this question long enough.
>
> > > > > > > >> What is meant by "desire", please?
>
> > > > > > > >> Although I copy-pasted it, this is my question.
>
> > > > > > > >> pi
>
> > > > > > > >ending discontent, desire in it's spiritual or Buddhist context, it's
> > > > > > > >simply craving some thing or circumstance to the point you ignore or
> > > > > > > >are indifferent to other significant considerations. Like the effect
> > > > > > > >your pursuit of the object of your desire on others. Or on yourself.
>
> > > > > > > >wish for shelter or clothing. But those aren't so problematic and in
> > > > > > > >fact may need to be met before you can seriously address desire in
> > > > > > > >it's spiritual context which causes the cycle of discontent to
> > > > > > > >perpetuate itself.
>
> > > > > > > hunger and the wish for shelter or clothing within a spiritual
> > > > > > > context. In other words, you wish all your desires have been met
> > > > > > > before you begin to bubble about getting rid of desires in order to
> > > > > > > gain any enlightenment.
>
> > > > > > Sure you desire to have your basic needs met, but meeting those needs
> > > > > > is not the end of desire.
>
> > > > > > else!" heheh If only that were so! That would make all spiritual
> > > > > > teachings completely obsolete and this life so much less complicated
> > > > > > in general.
>
> > > > > focus all of it into the stomach until you feel sick and deal with it
> > > > > physically.. it has helped in extreme issues.
>
> > > > I'm a meditator. Nothing else I've tried is even a close second place.
> > > > The ability to breath it in and let it go, just like that. Was THE
> > > > game changer for me.
>
> > > sounds similar though. you mean you breath the suffering in and let it
> > > go? so you are visualizing it as an energy or in the air in a place in
> > > the body but let it go before illness.
>
> > > i guess there might be side effects. i think it's similar to lactually
> > > making yourself sick.
>
> > I haven't done visualization in decades. It never becomes a problem to
> > begin with.
>
> if only we really knew.
If only we really knew what?
Awaken21
dr X
sometimes i wonder if a little bit of that suffering doesn't "pass
through", and might cause us some problems if it doesn't.
small tortoiseshell
Why do you breath in " others" suffering? Isn't breathing itself
enough?
dr X
other people a little bit more in my day to day life, which helped
because with ocd all i do is try to cut myself off.
i stopped at a certain point. some of these breathing meditations seem
to take me to a "mind blowing" threshold at which i stop doing it,
another one is a meditation on breathing a tibetan letter coloured
blue in and out but imagining that all that exists is this letter, and
your body becomes manifest when they come together on the in breath,
universe on the out.
small tortoiseshell
You seem open enough from what i see so maybe it worked as
prescribed. no two are similar so
>
> i stopped at a certain point. some of these breathing meditations seem
> to take me to a "mind blowing" threshold at which i stop doing it,
> another one is a meditation on breathing a tibetan letter coloured
> blue in and out but imagining that all that exists is this letter, and
> your body becomes manifest when they come together on the in breath,
> universe on the out.
Blue Tibetan letters. Fancy. A pebble under your sole will serve the
same purpose...