{:-])))

[Michaela Mackenzie]

had to start anew...

Michaela wrote:
> {:-]))) wrote:

>> Previously, here, in a.p.t.,
>> Lin Yutang got flack for his being
>> a Christian in some manner.

>> I, prejudicially, disregarded him.

>> Now, howEver, it appears to me,
>> even, oddly, with his translation
>> incorporating God in places, his work,
>> which bounces the Zz off the TTC,
>> is a wonderful encapsulation!

>> Taoism brings me much joy
>> in heart, mind and spirit. Bliss in ways
>> beyond words able to speak or write.
>> - at present

>how wonderful to type in APT and come across your name and notice how readily you admit that even you can can be closeminded when caught 'off-guard'.

>Hi :)

Hi!

Back then I took a stand.
Mostly just for the hell of it.

Me: Oh!

I'd entered this grove with a syncretistic mind.

Me: don't know what syncretistic means and it's late again... (that's
the excuse...)

It was, and still is, easy for me to sea
how waves are not other than
a notion of an ocean.

me: hmm yes...

How words can point.
Lin uses the word, God, in places
where in the text it probably has Tian, or T'ien,
which now-a-daze might be translated
more as Heaven than as God.

me: i can't or won't even try to tell the difference between that
which is called god or holy spirit
or jesus or universe or energy or or or... sometimes i point at one of
them and say 'there it is...'
and when called upon to say more, i find i've lost the point.

aside: i asked a xtian and a moslem lady if they had any idea what an
angel was last week. we're still
going to get back to that one...

God, as a word, carries baggage.

me: yes. it's just a word for... the source?

As it was pointed out how Tao differs from God
with respect and regard to having any will, desire,
morality, intent, mind, etc., I jumped on the band wagon
against those who would equate Tao, or Heaven, with God.

me: i can't imagine god having will. i think perhaps it's just easier
to say things like 'god is jealous'
when we actually [might] mean to say: all that is is god and if we
don't accept this we'll continue to be lost
and looking for [more?].
i seem to remember hearing you use the word bifurcations and i've
kind of latched on
to that. is there any way to 'unbifurcate'? that might be wonderful!

For purposes of Tao Chia, or Daojia, I still would.
For mystical unity purposes or other forms of perennial philosophy,
it can be good to weave words to point to a similar idea.

Jesus said he is the Way, Tao.
People here have said they, or you, are Tao.
They might have meant the same thing, or not.

Granting folks poetic license to say what they say
without saying anything in return can be fine,
but it tends to curtail much conversation.

me: :-)

To simply agree, cuz I know what they mean,
like-wise tends to end a discussion.

By finding points on which to disagree, Tao-b'all
can be a game of bouncing noodles off the walls.

me: 'tis fun and gives me something to chew on; so i too can feel i am
contributing to this 'place' :)

I often reflect upon the Universe
and wonder how much smarts it really has.

From among my Taoist views, with and without smarts
arise mutually. The Universe, from that angle, is both
Way with smarts and Way without smarts.

It knows, without knowing, prehaps,
how to put the Moon in front of the Sun to astonish me,
how to grow life into singular and multi-trillion cellular life,
and maybe everything that goes through my head. Or not.

me: Alan Watts made me aware that i actually grow my own hair.
how do i do i?

In looking at the wonder of clouds,
I have wondered if God puts every water droplet there,
where it dances around with other droplets, on purpose.

me: that we cannot know, right? but i don't think it's about purpose.
it's about leaving god and coming out to play. eventually the playdate
ends
and we need to be back in time for supper.

I tend to think not.
For God to be so cruel as to give a "sign" to Abraham
that his off-spring will be enslaved, for many first-born
to be destroyed, simply to show everyone that God is God,
tends to be outside my ability to accept.

me: no. i think i need to recap on my bible but i don't imagine god
is trying to show everyone anything... to me it's just another way of
saying
we just need to find our inner self [that which is god] if we are to
find any peace.

for inside of all of us is all that is [god]. we never left god.
we're just dreaming.

On another of my many hands
of cards played on a rounded square table,
assuming nobody was really hurt, then everything is okay.
Just like in the movies. It was all a fantastic drama.

me: see. you had it all along :)

In the beginning there was Tao.
And Tao became flesh.
Etcetera.

me: but is it flesh or just a dream? do we know when we're dreaming?
i seem to be one of those who don't.
Others claim to know when they are dreaming. I am not sure. I am not
them.

>- Michaela

>(if that was lousy english grammar, i apologise, really tired. falling asleep)

I just woke up and got lots of energy.
While energy can neither be created nor destroyed,
its transformations transform me in many ways.
Some more fantastic than others!

me: i'm smiling. i always smile when i read your posts :)


Good to see you again.

:D

- Michaela

[{:-])))]

Michaela wrote:
>had to start anew...
>
>Michaela wrote:
>> {:-]))) wrote:
>
>>> Previously, here, in a.p.t.,
>>> Lin Yutang got flack for his being
>>> a Christian in some manner.
>
>>> I, prejudicially, disregarded him.
>
>>> Now, howEver, it appears to me,
>>> even, oddly, with his translation
>>> incorporating God in places, his work,
>>> which bounces the Zz off the TTC,
>>> is a wonderful encapsulation!
>
>>> Taoism brings me much joy
>>> in heart, mind and spirit. Bliss in ways
>>> beyond words able to speak or write.
>>> - at present
>
>>how wonderful to type in APT and come across your name and notice how readily you admit that even you can can be closeminded when caught 'off-guard'.
>
>>Hi :)
>
>Hi!
>
>Back then I took a stand.
>Mostly just for the hell of it.
>
>Me: Oh!
>

> {:-])))

>I'd entered this grove with a syncretistic mind.
>
>Me: don't know what syncretistic means and it's late again... (that's
>the excuse...)

It means a sort of hogde-podge mixture
of a blend of lots of stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism

> {:-])))

>It was, and still is, easy for me to sea
>how waves are not other than
>a notion of an ocean.
>
>me: hmm yes...
>

> {:-])))

>How words can point.
>Lin uses the word, God, in places
>where in the text it probably has Tian, or T'ien,
>which now-a-daze might be translated
>more as Heaven than as God.
>
>me: i can't or won't even try to tell the difference between that
>which is called god or holy spirit
>or jesus or universe or energy or or or... sometimes i point at one of
>them and say 'there it is...'
>and when called upon to say more, i find i've lost the point.
>
>aside: i asked a xtian and a moslem lady if they had any idea what an
>angel was last week. we're still
>going to get back to that one...

In my mind an angel is a messenger.
Sometimes they guard and/or protect.

> {:-])))

>God, as a word, carries baggage.
>
>me: yes. it's just a word for... the source?

Probably definitely.
But not just any old source.
Different from the Big Bang.
God is a source with a will.
With an intent to create.
A Creator with a mind.
Different from Tao.

> {:-])))

>As it was pointed out how Tao differs from God
>with respect and regard to having any will, desire,
>morality, intent, mind, etc., I jumped on the band wagon
>against those who would equate Tao, or Heaven, with God.
>
>me: i can't imagine god having will. i think perhaps it's just easier
>to say things like 'god is jealous'

Right. Where as Tao isn't.
The Universe isn't. Nature isn't.

>when we actually [might] mean to say: all that is is god and if we
>don't accept this we'll continue to be lost
>and looking for [more?].

The idea that all that is, is God,
leans toward pan-theism. Christians, Muslims
and Jews don't usually go that far in their ways
of thinking and believing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

Accepting the paradigm as true, or as having
some truth within it, might help one to not be lost,
at times. It helps me, sometimes. But not always.

> i seem to remember hearing you use the word bifurcations and i've
>kind of latched on
>to that. is there any way to 'unbifurcate'? that might be wonderful!

I think that's where Taoism goes. Yes.
Less and less is the Way. TTC 48 for example.

http://terebess.hu/english/tao/gia.html#Kap48

Taking the view, as you said above: all that is is god;
is a step toward oneness. When one identifies with all that is,
then there is no separation between things. No carving.

There may remain however, an idea or thought
of being one with all. This in itself is still a dualistic state.

Forgetting about being one with all, one might actually be
one with all.

Taoism might prescribe sitting and forgetting.
Tso-wang or zuowang.

Also, having no-mind.
Practicing xin-zhai to arrive at wu-xin.
Also spelled as hsin-chai, and wu-hsin.

http://www.daoistfoundation.org/meditation.html

In Japanese, wu is translated as mu.
And hsin (mind) is spelled shin, at times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushin

> {:-])))

>For purposes of Tao Chia, or Daojia, I still would.
>For mystical unity purposes or other forms of perennial philosophy,
>it can be good to weave words to point to a similar idea.
>
>Jesus said he is the Way, Tao.
>People here have said they, or you, are Tao.
>They might have meant the same thing, or not.
>
>Granting folks poetic license to say what they say
>without saying anything in return can be fine,
>but it tends to curtail much conversation.
>
>me: :-)
>

> {:-])))

>To simply agree, cuz I know what they mean,
>like-wise tends to end a discussion.
>
>By finding points on which to disagree, Tao-b'all
>can be a game of bouncing noodles off the walls.
>
>me: 'tis fun and gives me something to chew on; so i too can feel i am
>contributing to this 'place' :)

Meditating on the points within
this helps point me within.

Into a state as described or pointed to,
above, and perhaps below.

> {:-])))

>I often reflect upon the Universe
>and wonder how much smarts it really has.
>
>From among my Taoist views, with and without smarts
>arise mutually. The Universe, from that angle, is both
>Way with smarts and Way without smarts.
>
>It knows, without knowing, prehaps,
>how to put the Moon in front of the Sun to astonish me,
>how to grow life into singular and multi-trillion cellular life,
>and maybe everything that goes through my head. Or not.
>
>me: Alan Watts made me aware that i actually grow my own hair.
>how do i do i?

In the same Way
you shine the Sun and stars
and "do" the Universe.

You do it without doing it.
It does it of-itself. Ziran. Tzu-jan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziran

By shifting identity, one moves
without moving from plane to plains
of consciousness and Being.

> {:-])))

>In looking at the wonder of clouds,
>I have wondered if God puts every water droplet there,
>where it dances around with other droplets, on purpose.
>
>me: that we cannot know, right? but i don't think it's about purpose.
>it's about leaving god and coming out to play. eventually the playdate
>ends and we need to be back in time for supper.

Sew it would seam.
Semantics, as well, may be at play.

> {:-])))

>I tend to think not.
>For God to be so cruel as to give a "sign" to Abraham
>that his off-spring will be enslaved, for many first-born
>to be destroyed, simply to show everyone that God is God,
>tends to be outside my ability to accept.
>
>me: no. i think i need to recap on my bible but i don't imagine god
>is trying to show everyone anything... to me it's just another way of
>saying we just need to find our inner self [that which is god] if we are to
>find any peace.
>
> for inside of all of us is all that is [god]. we never left god.
>we're just dreaming.

Yes. I can agree with that.
We are dreams God is having.
Within the dreams, God at times awakens
and reminds the characters how God is God
and there is no "other" aside from God.

> {:-])))

>On another of my many hands
>of cards played on a rounded square table,
>assuming nobody was really hurt, then everything is okay.
>Just like in the movies. It was all a fantastic drama.
>
>me: see. you had it all along :)

It's a form of perennial philosophy.
Pantheism, pan-en-theism, and other forms
of mystical unionn or identity tend to arrive
at a similar, if not the same identical, place-mat.

> {:-])))

>In the beginning there was Tao.
>And Tao became flesh.
>Etcetera.
>
>me: but is it flesh or just a dream? do we know when we're dreaming?
>i seem to be one of those who don't.
>Others claim to know when they are dreaming. I am not sure. I am not
>them.

Rarely, if ever, do I awaken within a dream-dream.
In "reality" upon awakening, at times it appears
as if life is but a dream.

Experiences are experiences.
Metaphors are metaphors.

Maps and explanations may take One
far and help one to return too, from two.

>>- Michaela
>
>>(if that was lousy english grammar, i apologise, really tired. falling asleep)
>
>I just woke up and got lots of energy.
>While energy can neither be created nor destroyed,
>its transformations transform me in many ways.
>Some more fantastic than others!
>
>me: i'm smiling. i always smile when i read your posts :)

Happy to be happy.

> {:-])))