NOT A FUCKING TRIVIA GROUP
Moonshadao
There are bullshit threads in which people are
perpetuating nothing but bullshit.
This is a Taoist Philosophy newsgroup.
Perhaps a discussion of Taoist Philosophy
is appropreate.
Qbits and physics, tolerance of points of view,
the matrix, religious bullshit like jesus or tod,
shamanism, all these things and other bullshit just
aren't the topic are they?
Jason Haynes
"Moonshadao" <Moons...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ECA2D...@aol.com...
I take it you mean stuff like....
Q. Who would win in a fight between the Hulk and the Thing ?
Which should be posted in alt.comics.jack-kirby and not
alt.philosophy.taoism
kamerm
true, they're not the topic, though they're starting points to get on topic
what say you get the ball rolling and post
in an interesting, discussion producing manner
something on topic?
you've enough te to do the job...
-k
Moonshadao
>
> what say you get the ball rolling
Ok, lets take TTC 19.
Nineteen (Feng and English)
"Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
Anyone here think that they have a grip on this one?
"Give up kindness, renounce morality,
And men will rediscover fillial piety and love."
Do any of you 'jesus' freaks understand what is being said?
"Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
And bandits and theives will disappear."
How many of you think you are 'business men'?
"These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in
themselves.
It is more important
To see the simplicity,"
Simple is as simple does.
Does anyone?
"To realize one's true nature,"
What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
"To cast off selfishness
And temper desire."
Is there anyone here that feels this way?
Do you live Dao?
stealth...@-remove-yahoo.com
Oho! <grin>
Part of the problem with things like Matrix, etc. is deciding whether
they are Zen in popular culture (that is to say Taoism with Buddhism
and a whack) or Taoism in popular culture? That is, are the concepts
original Tao or Tao filtered through Buddhism? Is a Taoist concept
somehow tainted by being adopted by something else?
physics is probably on topic ala Dancing Wu Li Masters
religion is on topic as in Celestial Masters, or derived practices
(QiGong, Taijiquan, etc.)
Shamanism and whether it influenced the texts or just the later
religious Taoism is on topic, for that matter too.
The deciding point, seems to me is whether one is discussing
stuff ----> to -----> get -----> here=<Taoism>
or whether on is discussing
Taoism ----> to -----> get -----> here=<Stuff>
or
stuff ----> to -----> get -----> here=<stuff>
FWIW
LaoWombat
remove "remove" to email
Jaybuzin0000
>kamerm wrote:
>>
>
>> what say you get the ball rolling
>
>Ok, lets take TTC 19.
okay.
>Nineteen (Feng and English)
>
>"Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
>And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
'Ho-shang Kung says, "Get rid of the works
of wisdom and reason and return to the primeval.
The symbols and letters created by the Five Emperors
were not as effective in ruling the kingdom
as the simply knots used earlier by the Three Sovereigns."'
>Anyone here think that they have a grip on this one?
oars have ores.
gnarly shade provided
by uselessness.
>"Give up kindness, renounce morality,
>And men will rediscover fillial piety and love."
>
>Do any of you 'jesus' freaks understand what is being said?
'Chiao Hung says, "The ways of the world
become daily more artificial. Hence we have names
like wisdom and reason, kindness and justice,
cleverness and profit. Those who understand the Tao
see how artificial they are and how inappropriate
they are to rule the world. They aren't as good
as getting people to focus their attention on the undyed
and the uncarved. By wearing the undyed and
holding the uncarved, our self-interest and desires
wane. The undyed and the uncarved refer
to our original nature."'
>"Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
>And bandits and theives will disappear."
>
>How many of you think you are 'business men'?
reminds me of a Jimi song.
>"These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in
>themselves.
>It is more important
>To see the simplicity,"
>
>Simple is as simple does.
>Does anyone?
eye dew
>"To realize one's true nature,"
>
>What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
sittinging h'ears
at present, a gift, bliss.
without drugs nor alchohol.
but coffee is said to be a chemical.
>"To cast off selfishness
>And temper desire."
>
>Is there anyone here that feels this way?
sure.
>Do you live Dao?
tis been said t'hat: I am Dao.
Moonshadao
>
Bullshit snipped...
>
> The deciding point, seems to me is whether one is discussing
>
> stuff ----> to -----> get -----> here=<Taoism>
>
> or whether on is discussing
>
> Taoism ----> to -----> get -----> here=<Stuff>
> or
> stuff ----> to -----> get -----> here=<stuff>
It is discussions of stuff to get to stuff.
There is no Taoism involved.
It's just pure bullshit dougie.
kamerm
wrong (but arguing about it would be so :-)
A Wayfarer
Don't get me wrong, I sometimes enjoy talking about popular movies and
speculative scientific-philosophy, and all, but . . .
"Many people are ignorant and do not recognize their original nature. .
People destroy themselves and willingly live in suffering. . . Of
all beings, humans possess the spark of intelligence. We are capable of
embodying heaven and earth. Heaven and earth are manifested in the sun
and moon, and the motion of the sun and moon is manifested in yin and
yang, in waning and waxing. When yang wanes, yin waxes. In the
ordinary person, when yang dissipates entirely and yin dominates, the
human becomes a ghost. In the sage, yang rises and yin diminishes.
When yin dissipates totally and pure yang dominates, the human becomes
an immortal. . . If you cultivate yourself and rid yourself of
impurities, then you will become an immortal. . . It depends on whether
you have the will and discipline." (_Cultivating Stillness_, Eva Wong
translator)
Now, isn't that as interesting as "The Matrix"?
stealth...@-remove-yahoo.com
Well, lessee
I could say...
then he could say....
then I would say...
then Jay would say...
Tell you what, let's not, and say we did. ;-)
Ory
> Qbits and physics, tolerance of points of view,
> the matrix, religious bullshit like jesus or tod,
> shamanism, all these things and other bullshit just
> aren't the topic are they?
I was going to consider why _some_ of those things maybe are not so off
topic as to require your seemingly endless, blatently insulting and
hostile-sounding diatribes (which are not themselves mentioned in any book
on Taoism *I've* ever read) but if you want to work out what things like
'philosophy' and 'taoism' (and 'alt' to a lesser degree) mean then I'm sure
you've more time than me to do so. You certainly seem to have a great deal
more patience.
But I suppose that ultimately, you are 100% right and I just can't cope with
my guilt over the fact that I've strayed from the heavily signposted Route
To Discussing Taoist Philosophy. :/
Maybe we can rename the group
"tao.posting.quotes.from.TCC.and.discussing.why.we.understand.them.better.th
an.anyone.else." Might clear things up. Or maybe a group motto. "If it's not
in a book about Taoism, don't post it!"
Ory
Yeah; I actually *do* think I know where you're coming from on this - I just
think your answer to the problem is fundamentally wrong.
innocent bystander
I see you're referring to my post among others. I asked a question and i wanted to hear some answers
from a taoist perspective. Hopefully a dialogue may evolve and turn into something acceptable to
you.
By the way, how would you categorize your contributions here?
--
Listening to silence
Solvlad
Moonshadao, hoping that somebody gives a shit, stated:
excuse while I laugh the living shit out of myself : D
Solvlad
"Moonshadao" >
> Ok, lets take TTC 19.
>
> Nineteen (Feng and English)
>
> "Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
> And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
>
> Anyone here think that they have a grip on this one?
no and I wouldn't want to...
>
> "Give up kindness, renounce morality,
> And men will rediscover fillial piety and love."
>
> Do any of you 'jesus' freaks understand what is being said?
jesus-freaks are brain-washed...they don't "understand", they "believe"
> "Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
> And bandits and theives will disappear."
>
> How many of you think you are 'business men'?
"business men" are pathetic mercantile assholes
>
> "These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in
> themselves.
> It is more important
> To see the simplicity,"
>
> Simple is as simple does.
> Does anyone?
>
> "To realize one's true nature,"
>
> What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
I don't give a calcificated horse crap on what my "true nature" is, but I
guess I live it anyway
>
> "To cast off selfishness
> And temper desire."
>
> Is there anyone here that feels this way?
only dumb retarded jesus-freaks and the likes of them try to "temper desire"
> Do you live Dao?
>
there is no Dao...
there never was...
never will be...
Teresita
>
>there is no Dao...
>there never was...
>never will be...
When the superior man hears of D'oh he immediately immediately embraces D'oh.
When ordinary people hear of D'oh, they accept partly and partly they doubt.
When fools listen to D'oh, they laugh at D'oh. If they don't laugh, then it's
not the real D'oh. (The D'oh of Homer S.)
Michael A. Clem
Moonshadao wrote:
Let us discuss taoism, then. There's the tao, and then there's
everything else--not-tao, that is. Limiting ourselves to discussing the
tao, we find ourselves saying one thing:
tao
Tao
Dao
dao
Dey-oH!
No, no: dao!
Oops! dao.
Okay, everybody go home. That's all there is to say about it...
Don't have a coronary, man!
small tortoiseshell
>
> "To realize one's true nature,"
>
> What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
as long as you ask yourself what 'true' nature is, you dont live it.
>
> "To cast off selfishness
> And temper desire."
>
> Is there anyone here that feels this way?
as long as you are looking for selfishness to cast away and desire to
temper, one will be busy doing that for as long as it takes, no longer
probably.
>
> Do you live Dao?
do a tree?
Moonshadao
>
> Moonshadao
>
> >
> > "To realize one's true nature,"
> >
> > What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
>
> as long as you ask yourself what 'true' nature is, you dont live it.
I don't ask myself. I ask you.
> >
> > "To cast off selfishness
> > And temper desire."
> >
> > Is there anyone here that feels this way?
>
> as long as you are looking for selfishness to cast away and desire to
> temper, one will be busy doing that for as long as it takes, no longer
> probably.
> >
Did it say to look for it, or just do it?
> > Do you live Dao?
>
> do a tree?
Does a tree shit in the bears?
Moonshadao
> there is no Dao...
> there never was...
> never will be...
But do you live it?
Moonshadao
Forty-One
" The wise student hears of the Tao and practices it dilligently
The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again.
The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is.
Hence it is said:
The bright path seems dim;
Going forward seems like retreat;
The easy way seems hard;
The highest virtue seems empty;
Great purity seems sullied;
A wealth of Virtue seems inadequate;
The strength of Virtue seems frail;
Real Virtue seems unreal;
The perfect square has no corners;
Great talents ripen late;
The higest notes are hard to hear;
The greatest form has no shape.
The Tao is hidden and without name.
The Tao alone nourishes and brings everything to fulfillment. "
Tao Te Ching, translation by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English.
Moonshadao
>
> Moonshadao, hoping that somebody gives a shit, stated:
>
Wrong.
Moonshadao, not caring in the least if somebody gives a shit.
Just stating.
Shit gets said and other shit changes direction.
Jaybuzin0000
>I could say...
>then he could say....
>then I would say...
>then Jay would say...
hey, yo, aye; just got some new
big-sized floppy shoes!
{8-])))
Master Bozo
Jaybuzin0000
>When yin dissipates totally and pure yang dominates, the human becomes
>an immortal. . .
sew t'hats wh'at happened.
tanks!
>Now, isn't that as interesting as "The Matrix"?
at least!
{8-])))
BraveNewWhirl
> kamerm wrote:
> >
>
> > what say you get the ball rolling
>
> Ok, lets take TTC 19.
>
> Nineteen (Feng and English)
>
> "Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
> And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
>
Try something a little easier. Name 5 horrid professions from a Taoism perspective.
Nick Argall
Please stop posting your off-topic notifications of posts which you believe
to be off-topic.
The topic of this group is Taoist Philosophy, not discussions of whether a
given post is off-topic or not.
--
Nick
Nick Argall
Not really.
The thing that interests me is application of taoist philosophy, and/or
translation of it into other forms.
Although the point about the importance of yang is quite important, and one
that is recently reflected in my experience. I've been ill for quite some
time. I went swimming on Monday, and exerted myself for several hours,
putting more exercise into that day than I had done in the previous week.
My energy levels improved quite a bit since, although the increase in aches
and pains was definitely uncomfortable.
--
Nick
Nick Argall
> Maybe we can rename the group
> "tao.posting.quotes.from.TCC.and.discussing.why.we.understand.them.better.th
> an.anyone.else." Might clear things up. Or maybe a group motto. "If it's not
> in a book about Taoism, don't post it!"
Actually, Rick really wants to discuss historical links between ancient
Chinese shamanic practices and the emergence of the documented system
called Taoism. Perhaps if someone created alt.taoism.history it would
help.
--
Nick
Solvlad
"Teresita"
> >
> >there is no Dao...
> >there never was...
> >never will be...
>
> When the superior man hears of D'oh he immediately immediately embraces
D'oh.
> When ordinary people hear of D'oh, they accept partly and partly they
doubt.
> When fools listen to D'oh, they laugh at D'oh. If they don't laugh, then
it's
> not the real D'oh. (The D'oh of Homer S.)
>
actually it's more like:
"those that do not laugh cannot follow"
if you're not a fool, then that's exactly what you are ...
Solvlad
"Moonshadao"
only to the extent that a word which is just a delusion of an ignorant mind,
can be "lived"
to limit Tao to a word or to the state of "existence" is folly...
I don't live the Tao...
If I would, then "that" Tao (which I live) would be just a weird name for a
life philosophy..
Solvlad
I guess it is Tao that lives me...
Solvlad
small tortoiseshell wishes to know if anyone would care to :
> do a tree?
no thanks...(i'm straight...)
Moonshadao
>
> The topic of this group is Taoist Philosophy
So when are you going to get anywhere near the topic?
Moonshadao
> Rick really wants to discuss historical links between ancient
> Chinese shamanic practices and the emergence of the documented system
> called Taoism. Perhaps if someone created alt.taoism.history it would
> help.
My 'interests' and the topic of this group
do not need to be the same. I do not seek
discussion of historical links, check google to verify.
I have only mentioned my 'interests' once this year and only
as a BTW.
A Wayfarer
In his May 21 post to this thread,Nick Argall keystroked:
In this newsgroup- alt.philosophy. taoism- a post of a direct quote from
a translation from the taoist canon is "not really" as interesting to
him as discussing "The Matrix." Nick, have you checked out
alt.fan.Keanu-Reeves? It might be more interesting to you.
He also reveals that he has been sick lately, and is interested in "the
application of taoist philosophy." As it turns out, that's the central
focus of _Cultivating Stillness_- discussing and describing powerful
Taoist procedures for working with the body's internal energy to attain
health and longevity.
Nick, I wish you the best of health, and sincerely encourage you to
continue your interest in the application of taoist philosophy,
especially in the areas of health and longevity. The book I quoted in
my post- the authorship is attributed to Lao Tsu- should be
"interesting" to you.
flotsam
"Moonshadao" <Moons...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ECA3F...@aol.com...
> kamerm wrote:
> >
>
> > what say you get the ball rolling
>
> Ok, lets take TTC 19.
>
> Nineteen (Feng and English)
>
> "Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
> And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
>
>
for it is troublesome and somewhat contagious
> "Give up kindness, renounce morality,
> And men will rediscover fillial piety and love."
>
men will naturally have respect for each other,
when the ego is not there making a morality show
> Do any of you 'jesus' freaks understand what is being said?
>
much of what jesus said was similar,
however this is a dao ng.
> "Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
> And bandits and theives will disappear."
>
> How many of you think you are 'business men'?
>
unfortunately the whole world admires these things,
> "These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in
> themselves.
> It is more important
> To see the simplicity,"
>
> Simple is as simple does.
> Does anyone?
>
> "To realize one's true nature,"
>
> What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
>
> "To cast off selfishness
> And temper desire."
>
> Is there anyone here that feels this way?
>
> Do you live Dao?
>
tempering desire is difficult
Teresita
>
>
>I guess it is Tao that lives me...
Only for people who make Tao their personal Lord and Savior.
Teresita
>Actually, Rick really wants to discuss historical links between ancient
>Chinese shamanic practices and the emergence of the documented system
>called Taoism. Perhaps if someone created alt.taoism.history it would
>help.
alt.irony.anal.taoists
Jaybuzin0000
>n*a wrote:
>In this newsgroup- alt.philosophy. taoism- a post of a direct quote from
>a translation from the taoist canon is "not really" as interesting to
>him as discussing "The Matrix." Nick, have you checked out
>alt.fan.Keanu-Reeves? It might be more interesting to you.
he's, like, a most excellent dude, imbo.
>Nick, I wish you the best of health,
the CT has quite a few stories about
cripples, hunchbacks, no-lips, goiter, and
Virtue; fwiw. Seams lotsa t'hats don't matter
much bouts health, wealth, etc..
>and sincerely encourage you to
>continue your interest in the application of taoist philosophy,
at the hub
is One alive ore dead? healthy oar sick?
-passinging of bottomless
bever'ages in a bamboo grove
Jaybuzin0000
>rick may have wondered:
>> Do you live Dao?
>>
>tempering desire is difficult
knot, really.
-simply h'eat, One up.
-p'lunge into a fire, too cool!
-repeat un, til end is n'ear.
kamerm
news:20030521110653...@mb-m03.news.cs.com...
yes, the self-defeating futility of raw desire
can make a most abject lesson ;-)
-k
Solvlad
"Teresita"
> >I guess it is Tao that lives me...
>
> Only for people who make Tao their personal Lord and Savior.
>
why would I need a saviour ?
I don't feel like being saved from anything...
why would I need A Lord ?
every little thing in this world is my lord...(and I am their master...
: ) )
flotsam
"Solvlad" <solom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bag6jg$t3697$1...@ID-161476.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Teresita"
> > >I guess it is Tao that lives me...
> >
> > Only for people who make Tao their personal Lord and Savior.
> >
>
> why would I need a saviour ?
you have sinned and therefore must be saved
> I don't feel like being saved from anything...
sorry you will be saved whether you like it or not
>
> why would I need A Lord ?
> every little thing in this world is my lord...(and I am their master...
> : ) )
>
>
there you go sinning again
Nick Argall
I'm following your example, and trying not to go anywhere near it :)
--
Nick
Nick Argall
> He also reveals that he has been sick lately, and is interested in "the
> application of taoist philosophy." As it turns out, that's the central
> focus of _Cultivating Stillness_- discussing and describing powerful
> Taoist procedures for working with the body's internal energy to attain
> health and longevity.
>
> Nick, I wish you the best of health, and sincerely encourage you to
> continue your interest in the application of taoist philosophy,
> especially in the areas of health and longevity. The book I quoted in
> my post- the authorship is attributed to Lao Tsu- should be
> "interesting" to you.
Thanks. Do you know if it exists online?
--
Nick
small tortoiseshell
> small tortoiseshell wishes to know if anyone would care to :
>
> > do a tree?
>
> no thanks...(i'm straight...)
what makes you think trees are homosexual?
Teresita
_cl...@operamail.com says...
Fruit trees, at any rate.
small tortoiseshell
> >
> >What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
>
> sittinging h'ears
> at present, a gift, bliss.
> without drugs nor alchohol.
> but coffee is said to be a chemical.
yes, 'dont feed the plants'
>
> >"To cast off selfishness
> >And temper desire."
> >
> >Is there anyone here that feels this way?
>
> sure.
>
> >Do you live Dao?
>
> tis been said t'hat: I am Dao.
should suffice with 'I am ", dao or not, so spoke the tree I asked,
they know a lot about dao without knowing it,
Jaybuzin0000
>jay'd written sum stuff:
>>rick mites have wondered:
>> >Do you live Dao?
>>
>> tis been said t'hat: I am Dao.
>
>should suffice with 'I am ",
ah, ye ole "shoulds" eh.
aye, oughts too to two aswell, jah-mon.
t'hen again, th'airs wu, and wu-chi.
how can One be an hub? oar nothing atall?
>dao or not, so spoke the tree I asked,
>they know a lot about dao without knowing it,
eyes herds of beastiality.
knots quite sure of plantsiality tho.
is yu intimate width teh tree(s)?
wei-wu-wei?
-jest curious
in terms of sharing dna, etc..
BraveNewWhirl
Interesting how everyone in this here grove heads for cover when
someone suggests a tangible demonstration. Now just what should we
make of that? Hmmmmmm
innocent bystander
news:c4bc811a.0305...@posting.google.com
[...]
> Try something a little easier. Name 5 horrid professions from a
> Taoism perspective.
Ok i wanna try.
Politician
Military
Scientist
(Practically any authority figure i guess)
I'm out of ideas now. Anyone else?
--
Listening to silence
flotsam
ok ummm,
1) bureaucrat
2) tax collector
3) banker
4) clergy
5) bombardier
kamerm
news:c4bc811a.03052...@posting.google.com...
it's not the profession
it's how you do it
a thief can have tao
a great thief must have tao
cf: http://users.compaqnet.be/cn111132/chuang-tzu/10.htm
-k
Jaybuzin0000
>bw wrote:
>>Name 5 horrid professions from a
>> Taoism perspective.
>
>Ok i wanna try.
>
>Politician
>Military
>Scientist
>
>(Practically any authority figure i guess)
>
>I'm out of ideas now. Anyone else?
Politician popped into my mind first too.
As kamerm noted,
it isn't professions that are necessarily horrid.
Executives and legislators tend to be folk who
might have a difficult time putting daojia into practice
simply due to the nature of their tasks.
Professional do-gooders,
those who are out to make the world better
thru conscious, intentional, planned effort
might be people who contrast with types
of realms in which taoism drifts, fur sums.
Taoism points.
Exactly to what it points
is subject to much debate.
Does it point to a bunch of whats?
Does it point to a single constant what?
Does it point to hows, or a single how?
As young adults,
we used to wish for jobs
as smoke testers in a pot factory.
How horrid might t'hat be?
-loads of bunk
may make One's head hurt.
small tortoiseshell
thanks, a huge apple-tree made of dried apple slices with branches
and the whole lot just glued itself to my neurons, and theres a
strawberry tree there as well... ah, hungry. Thanks, I will now go and
eat strawberry with cream and a little honey on top. In a white
porcelainbowl with one skyblue ring around the rim.
all fruit,
small tortoiseshell
> small turtleshell dude wrote:
> >jay'd written sum stuff:
> >>rick mites have wondered:
>
> >> >Do you live Dao?
> >>
> >> tis been said t'hat: I am Dao.
> >
> >should suffice with 'I am ",
>
> ah, ye ole "shoulds" eh.
just pour the meaning out of the word,
> aye, oughts too to two aswell, jah-mon.
>
> t'hen again, th'airs wu, and wu-chi.
> how can One be an hub? oar nothing atall?
because there is no 'space' or time, only One whirling.
>
> >dao or not, so spoke the tree I asked,
> >they know a lot about dao without knowing it,
>
> eyes herds of beastiality.
moore fruit...
> knots quite sure of plantsiality tho.
they start bowing to eachother, knowing it will take decades before
their first kiss will be, but they enjoy every second of it...
>
> is yu intimate width teh tree(s)?
> wei-wu-wei?
I dont know what you mean, but they give me images and stories...
>
> -jest curious
> in terms of sharing dna, etc..
ah, not neccessary, one can jump the species-grid with some focus.
flotsam
"small tortoiseshell" <_cl...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:8aae3013.03052...@posting.google.com...
yummy
your passion for food is disturbing
get a grip
small tortoiseshell
I will cast off the desire for the appletree, but the strawberrytree I
will cling to until it submit to my will and we jam together. And even
if Lao tzu himself told me it is not wise to cling to strawberry
trees, I would still do it. I'm loosing it...
small tortoiseshell
> "Moonshadao" <Moons...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:3ECA3F...@aol.com...
> > kamerm wrote:
> > >
>
> > > what say you get the ball rolling
> >
> > Ok, lets take TTC 19.
> >
> > Nineteen (Feng and English)
> >
> > "Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
> > And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
> >
> > Anyone here think that they have a grip on this one?
> >
> yes stifle the ego and loftiness,
> for it is troublesome and somewhat contagious
the stiffling or the ego? maybe both... whats not troublesome only
trouble knows I guess,
>
> > "Give up kindness, renounce morality,
> > And men will rediscover fillial piety and love."
> >
> men will naturally have respect for each other,
> when the ego is not there making a morality show
yes, and strangely enough it leads to kindness and compassion...
>
> > Do any of you 'jesus' freaks understand what is being said?
> >
> much of what jesus said was similar,
> however this is a dao ng.
dao U.L.T.D (unlimited)
>
> > "Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
> > And bandits and theives will disappear."
> >
> > How many of you think you are 'business men'?
> >
> unfortunately the whole world admires these things,
>
> > "These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in
> > themselves.
> > It is more important
> > To see the simplicity,"
> >
> > Simple is as simple does.
> > Does anyone?
> >
> > "To realize one's true nature,"
> >
> > What is your 'true' nature, do you live it?
> >
> > "To cast off selfishness
> > And temper desire."
> >
> > Is there anyone here that feels this way?
> >
> > Do you live Dao?
> >
> tempering desire is difficult
what is the purpose of doing that?
MDHJWH
> yummy
> your passion for food is disturbing
> get a grip
Your passion for gripping is showing.
Ayn Marx
flotsam
life is short
i love blueberries
flotsam
"MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:808df0f8.03052...@posting.google.com...
your insight is astounding
flotsam
"small tortoiseshell" <_cl...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:8aae3013.03052...@posting.google.com...
what is the purpose of anything?
potts
> This is not a fucking trivia newsgroup.
> There are bullshit threads in which people are
> perpetuating nothing but bullshit.
>
> This is a Taoist Philosophy newsgroup.
> Perhaps a discussion of Taoist Philosophy
> is appropreate.
>
> Qbits and physics, tolerance of points of view,
> the matrix, religious bullshit like jesus or tod,
> shamanism, all these things and other bullshit just
> aren't the topic are they?
>
Does that mean Tao is not "related ' to everything else? Rgds Ken
potts
"A Wayfarer" <A_Way...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:2414-3EC...@storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> Don't get me wrong, I sometimes enjoy talking about popular movies and
> speculative scientific-philosophy, and all, but . . .
>
> "Many people are ignorant and do not recognize their original nature. .
> People destroy themselves and willingly live in suffering. . . Of
> all beings, humans possess the spark of intelligence. We are capable of
> embodying heaven and earth. Heaven and earth are manifested in the sun
> and moon, and the motion of the sun and moon is manifested in yin and
> yang, in waning and waxing. When yang wanes, yin waxes. In the
> ordinary person, when yang dissipates entirely and yin dominates, the
> human becomes a ghost. In the sage, yang rises and yin diminishes.
> When yin dissipates totally and pure yang dominates, the human becomes
> an immortal. . . If you cultivate yourself and rid yourself of
> impurities, then you will become an immortal. . . It depends on whether
> you have the will and discipline." (_Cultivating Stillness_, Eva Wong
> translator)
>
> Now, isn't that as interesting as "The Matrix"?
>
Just curious . Why would anyone want to become an immortal? Rgds Ken
Nick Argall
Obviously, it's my pretentious fakery at work, but every time I think up a
candidate for such a list, it turns out to have a redeeming feature.
Perhaps:
Horror movie writer
Horror movie actor
Horror movie director
Horror novellist
Horror movie special-effects artist
(But is horror such a horrible thing? Is it horrid? Reading the
non-fiction work of Stephen King, he seems to be one of the sanest people I
know of.)
--
Nick
Jaybuzin0000
>Just curious . Why would anyone want to become an immortal?
Cuz, mortality can be the death of people?
Some corporeal type folks may fear a loss
of t'hat which is held dear, two t'hems-elves.
Not realizing an aspect of their being not-corporeal,
dissolution does not present its'elf as a solution.
what ale's One
mites differ from 'others'
-just guessinging a round
{8-])))
small tortoiseshell
is everything desire?
flotsam
are you a sperm cell?
a wayfarer
In his May 24 post to this thread, potts keystrokes that he's "just
curious":
Why would anyone want to become an immortal? As I once heard the Dalai
Lama (I know he's not really a taoist) observe, "That's a good
question."
I would say that it's not really a question of "wanting to become an
immortal," so much as it is a process of coming to know, express and
"identify with" that part of yourself that was you before you took your
first breath on Earth. Some people call it: your Original Self, your
True Self, your True Nature, and other names.
According to some literature in the taoist canon, that part of your
"self" can continue to exist after the coporeal aspect of what you
consider to be your "self" has ceased functioning. Again, according to
some literature in the taoist canon, coming to realize your True Self is
the most worthy way we can use our time on Earth.
flotsam
actually, based on what i have read,
and on my own limited experience,
i gather it works something like this,
dao is the ever-present, unchanging,
constant, truth behind all realities.
before our poet jaybuz steps in,
i should add that it is neither noun,
nor verb, to classify as such, is
clowning around.
dao lords over everything,
including heaven and earth.
everything manifest, the 10k things,
are a product of will and desire.
back to heaven is where we go,
when we die.
we are heaven incarnate.
before our grove-cleaner rick
steps in, i should add that dao
is not realizing itself, dao is the
subtle truth behind all realizations.
but of course, that is only what i think,
at this time.
flotsam
"a wayfarer" <A_Way...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5448-3EC...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net...
the true self is the one self,
coming to know one's true self,
one comes to know the great self.
through manifestation one comes
to know one's true self which is
the one great self, the great wazu self.
Teresita
Yet insane people are not horrid. Syd Barrett, the original leader of Pink
Floyd, was a couple fries short of a Happy Meal, but he did some lovely and
whimsical songs.
Teresita
A_Way...@webtv.net says...
>According to some literature in the taoist canon, that part of your
>"self" can continue to exist after the coporeal aspect of what you
>consider to be your "self" has ceased functioning. Again, according to
>some literature in the taoist canon, coming to realize your True Self is
>the most worthy way we can use our time on Earth.
Well, since the individual cells in your body have a shorter lifespan than your
whole body, the cells are born and get on, they ride for a while, then get off
and die, but your Self keeps going until there are no more cells that want to
ride anymore. And since busses have a longer lifespan than humans, the humans
are born and get on, ride for a while, then get off and die, but the Bus keeps
going until there are no more humans that want to ride anymore. And since mass
transit systems have a longer lifespan than busses, they are manufactured and
come online, provide service for a while, then get off and break down, but the
System keeps going until there are no more busses that can provide service
anymore...
JP
"BraveNewWhirl" <braven...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4bc811a.03052...@posting.google.com...
news:<c4bc811a.0305...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Try something a little easier. Name 5 horrid professions from a Taoism
perspective.
>
> Interesting how everyone in this here grove heads for cover when
> someone suggests a tangible demonstration. Now just what should we
> make of that? Hmmmmmm
Corporate lobbyist
Pimp
Drug dealer
Missionary
Attorney
Jaybuzin0000
>nick wrote:
>>of the sanest people I know of.)
>Yet insane people are not horrid.
I can't find my marbles.
-not to mention a few screws,
ore, mebbe they were bolts, hmm.
Jaybuzin0000
>a_w wrote:
[...]
>until there are no more busses that can provide service anymore...
my sister sent me a birthday card
which pictured the Dalai Lama receiving
an empty box, with which he was overjoyed
and exclaimed, "Nothing! Just what I always wanted!"
-he's lookin swell ...
bobbyhaqq
> Just curious . Why would anyone want to become an immortal? Rgds Ken
For some reason so strong that it would make men eat jade and gold,
and kill themselves with foolishness, and yet when looked at seems as
empty as vanity itself.
small tortoiseshell
try to cast off your desire as a sperm-cell, and see how far you get...
potts
"a wayfarer" <A_Way...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5448-3EC...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net...
MDHJWH
>
>
> > Just curious . Why would anyone want to become an immortal? Rgds Ken
Vanity.
a wayfarer
In their May 24 & May 25 posts to this thread, bobbyhaqq and MDHJWH
attribute the cultivation of health and longevity, as part of the
process of coming to know one's Original Self, to "vanity."
What we call "Taoism" encompasses a very diverse and divergent range of
points of view. The different Branches, Schools, and Sects can embrace
attitudes and practices that would appear to be "opposite" to each other
on everything from sex, drugs, and alcohol, to whether the initial focus
of study should be on the mind or the body. Pretty much every
present-day "taoist" that I'm aware of rejects the literal attainment of
physical immortality through the ingestion of toxic materials such as
cinnabar and lead.
I find all of the varying points of view encompassed in the literature
associated with taoism interesting, and I have quoted from a translation
of a text from the taoist canon in my posts regarding health, longevity,
and realizing our True Nature.
Can you, please, share with me the source(s) of your expressed point of
view attributing that process to "vanity?"
Thanks.
small tortoiseshell
> > > > > > Do you live Dao?
> > > > > >
> > > > > tempering desire is difficult
> > > >
> > > > what is the purpose of doing that?
> > >
> > > what is the purpose of anything?
> >
> > is everything desire?
>
> actually, based on/off what i have/havent read,
> and/or on my own/others limited/unlimited experience/apriori
> i gather it works something/nothing like this/that,
> dao is the ever/never-present/absent.
unchanging/changing,
> constant/whimsical, truth/lie behind/front all/none realities/illusions.
> before our poet jaybuz steps in,
> i should add that it is neither noun,
> nor verb, to classify as such, is
> clowning around.
> dao lords over everything/nothing,
> including/excluding heaven/earth and earth/heaven.
> everything manifest/unmanifest, the 10k things,
> are a product of will and desire/no-desire.
> back to heaven/earth is where we go,
> when we die/live.
> we are heaven/earth incarnate.
> before/infront our grove-cleaner rick
> steps in, i should add that dao
> is not realizing itself,
what do you fill the word "realize" with?
dao is the
> subtle truth/lie behind all realizations.
> but of course, that is only what i think,
> at this time.
yup:)
Moonshadao
> Again, according to
> some literature in the taoist canon, coming to realize your True Self is
> the most worthy way we can use our time on Earth.
Your 'true' self has been here on earth for a very long time
and will always be on earth, unless you have your remains shot
into space.
Moonshadao
I was talking about Taoist Philosophy and this newsgroup, not Tao.
Jaybuzin0000
Is t'hat anything like being shot on site?
asides from the dust of stars
which may be s'hot full of wholes,
One remains the light, heat, and other forms
of energy, radiation, and particles which are
unconfined by this Earthsphere.
as an individual particularization of a Whole,
one's boundaries reach to the utmost entirety
and, beyond time, beyond.
{8-])))
imMBo;
-jest passingings thru
and thru and thru
Teresita
As places go in the universe, this one ain't bad. It don't spin too fast and
make nasty weather, it don't get too much ionizing radiation through the
magnetic field, it don't get too many meteors through the atmosphere, there's
plenty of free oxygen despite the tendency of oxygen to bind itself in the
lithosphere on nastier places where other, less lucky true selves call home.
MDHJWH
> In article <3ED364...@aol.com>, Moonshadao says...
> As places go in the universe, this one ain't bad. It don't spin too fast and
> make nasty weather, it don't get too much ionizing radiation through the
> magnetic field, it don't get too many meteors through the atmosphere, there's
> plenty of free oxygen despite the tendency of oxygen to bind itself in the
> lithosphere on nastier places where other, less lucky true selves call home.
Trouble is we live here.
Ayn Marx
MDHJWH
>Snip<......................................................................>
> Can you, please, share with me the source(s) of your expressed point of
> view attributing that process to "vanity?"
>
who do wish for immortality suffer the delusion of vanity, in that
they see their 'selves' as worthy of preservation.
By 'source(s)' I pressume you refer to texts? If so they are not a
source as such. Wandering around the grove is my source I suppose -
but I wouldn't like to claim that as a certainty either.
Ayn Marx
MDHJWH
> potts wrote:
snipp>
Nothing is trivial, except nothing, and even that
...................................
Ayn Marx
flotsam
"MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:808df0f8.03052...@posting.google.com...
there may be millions of places similar to earth
we happen to be here doing are thing
who knows, maybe we are also over there
Teresita
mdh...@iprimus.com.au says...
>
>Moonshadao <Moons...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3ED366...@aol.com>...
>> potts wrote:
>snipp>
>I was talking about Taoist Philosophy and this newsgroup, not Tao.
>
>Nothing is trivial, except nothing, and even that
Did you mean trivially trivial or just trivial?
MDHJWH
snip<..........
> there may be millions of places similar to earth
> we happen to be here doing are thing
> who knows, maybe we are also over there
Hope not.
Ayn Marx
flotsam
"MDHJWH"
> > there may be millions of places similar to earth
> > we happen to be here doing are thing
> > who knows, maybe we are also over there
>
> Hope not.
>
> Ayn Marx
there's got to be something good about man
mixed in with all the bad
you can't have one without the other
Jaybuzin0000
>am wrote:
>> > who knows, maybe we are also over there
>>
>> Hope not.
>there's got to be something good about man
>mixed in with all the bad
>you can't have one without the other
could be that there's neither.
one way to view situations is that they just are.
qualificat'ions imply a carving of the block.
y'our exterior is everywhere.
-fwiw
flotsam
"Jaybuzin0000" <jaybuz...@cs.comm> wrote in message
news:20030529164009...@mb-m24.news.cs.com...
could very well be
i don't see any good or bad
i just see
MDHJWH
> fs wrote:
> >am wrote:
>
> >> > who knows, maybe we are also over there
> >>
> >> Hope not.
>
> >there's got to be something good about man
> >mixed in with all the bad
> >you can't have one without the other
>
> could be that there's neither.
>
> one way to view situations is that they just are.
> qualificat'ions imply a carving of the block.
Then how did you manage to comment upon the previous statement?
Ayn Marx
Ian Beardsley
Re: Do you live Dao?
Group: alt.philosophy.taoism Date: Fri, May 23, 2003, 1:32am (PDT+9)
From: sp...@someguy.com (innocent bystander)
Try something a little easier. Name 5 horrid professions from a Taoism
perspective.
Politician
Military
Scientist
(Practically any authority figure i guess)
I'm out of ideas now. Anyone else?
--
Listening to silence
I don't know about scientist, Albert Einstien was a scientist but a real
rebel who had a real problem with authoritarian figures. Through Science
he found true freedom and perhaps even enlightment. Afterall, he said
"[Death] has no meaning as the distinction between past, present and
future are illusions if even stubborn ones." And of course many other
scientists were free spirits, like Buckminster Fuller or Ted Taylor or
Jacob Brownowski.
Ian
Jaybuzin0000
>jb wrote:
>> fs wrote:
>> >am wrote:
>>
>> >> > who knows, maybe we are also over there
>> >>
>> >> Hope not.
>>
>> >there's got to be something good about man
>> >mixed in with all the bad
>> >you can't have one without the other
>>
>> could be that there's neither.
>>
>> one way to view situations is that they just are.
>> qualificat'ions imply a carving of the block.
>
>Then how did you manage to comment upon the previous statement?
via m'eye fingers.
any statement is a carving.
those who know of such, wood p'u they say?
>Ayn Marx
Feersum
> On 22 May 2003 15:44:48 -0700, BraveNewWhirl wrote:
>
>
>>braven...@postmaster.co.uk (BraveNewWhirl) wrote in message news:<c4bc811a.0305...@posting.google.com>...
>>
>>>Moonshadao <Moons...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3ECA3F...@aol.com>...
>>>
>>>>kamerm wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>what say you get the ball rolling
>>>>
>>>>Ok, lets take TTC 19.
>>>>
>>>>Nineteen (Feng and English)
>>>>
>>>>"Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
>>>>And it will be a hundred times better for everyone."
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>someone suggests a tangible demonstration. Now just what should we
>>make of that? Hmmmmmm
>
>
> candidate for such a list, it turns out to have a redeeming feature.
>
> Perhaps:
> Horror movie writer
> Horror movie actor
> Horror movie director
> Horror novellist
> Horror movie special-effects artist
>
> (But is horror such a horrible thing? Is it horrid? Reading the
> non-fiction work of Stephen King, he seems to be one of the sanest people I
> know of.)
>
>
>
If humans didn't need a bit of blood, there wouldn't be that much of it
around.
Jaybuzin0000
>nick wrote:
[...occupations full of awe, i.e. aweful...]
>> (But is horror such a horrible thing? Is it horrid?
>If humans didn't need a bit of blood, there wouldn't be that much of it
>around.
humans might be very unnatural,
from a taoist pov, in many ways.
-strange, t'hats