Mysticism - Seeing - Quotations by Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick
Buddhist Monk
Lenz
"From where the average man stands,
Sorcery is nonsense.
And he is right,
Not because this is an absolute fact,
But because the average man
Lacks the energy to deal with sorcery."
- Don Juan Matus
The Power of Silence - Carlos Castaneda
Main Page:
www.ramaquotes.com
Mysticism - Seeing:
www.ramaquotes.com/html/seeing.html
Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz:
Inner seeing has nothing to do with physical vision; it's the
perception of life directly.
The hindrances to being psychic are a general dullness that develops
from living in the material world, and being a material girl.
Seeing occurs, of course, through stopping thought. Thought is the fog.
When thought stops in meditation, at any point, when there's no
thought, we see the other shore.
A person who has power has an open mind. Their mind is open and they
can see on other levels. Seeing is a quality that comes to a person who
has personal power.
If you are psychic you will become much more aware of the beauty of
life. If you are psychic, when you look at a rose, you will see and
feel the essence of the rose.
To be psychic is to see without the senses and to keep the thoughts and
emotions of others out of your awareness.
What does it mean to be psychic? Essentially it means to feel, rather
than think all the time.
Music is largely psychic. It is a feeling. It is not logical. It is a
feeling. Art, life, why we live -- feelings.
Within silence all things are contained. What appears to our eyes to be
life is but a thin curtain, a gauze penumbra, which stultifies our
vision, which prevents us from seeing the truth
Seeing occurs, of course, through stopping thought. Thought is the fog.
When thought stops in meditation, at any point, when there's no
thought, we see the other shore.
The psychic world is a dimensional plane that you can gain access to.
It is a dimension of feeling and clear seeing.
Psychic development is a necessary skill in leading a successful and
happy life. Your intellectual processes and your senses don't give you
enough information to distinguish the real from the unreal.
If you are psychic, you can see into the minds of others. You can use
that opening to aid somebody. Sometimes someone's trying to tell you
something and they don't even know what it is.
If you are psychic you can perceive that someone may love you and they
can't show it. Someone may seek to harm you and they mask it.
When you develop your psychic vision after some meditation, you will be
able to see the subtle physical of others, or perhaps yourself. At
first you will see it as an aura; eventually you can see the whole
subtle physical.
Everything that you see before you with your physical eyes is an
illusion. In other words, you are not seeing correctly. Life is made up
of light. But if you are only looking through the senses, it seems
solid and physical.
As a seer, I naturally can see the evolutionary potential of a being.
But the potential will not necessarily be actualized. A particular
being will not necessarily realize their full height.
The universe is a giant mind. Some people have the ability to tap into
that mind, we call them psychic. Others don't; we call them dull; but
they have potential.
Psychic awareness leads to a true perception not only of events, but
just of life itself. It is its own raison d'etre.
The psychic perception is a feeling as opposed to a thinking. Not a
feeling that is engendered through emotion necessarily. It comes from
the psychic plane of intuition, which is another stage of our mind.
The way to develop your psychic ability is by learning to create a
shield between yourself and the sensorial and vibratory bombardment
that we experience in the modern world.
In the psychic process we are trying to eliminate everyone else from
our minds, their effects, their energies, their influences. "To thine
own self be true and it must follow as the night the day, thou cans't
be false to any man."
Build a shield between yourself and the descriptions of the world that
everyone else has.
A continuous perception is taking place deep within the mind. It is
hard to hear that signal because it is blurred over by your own
thoughts, desires, and fears. It is blurred over by your emotional
swings. You become dull.
Most people make their choices predicated upon a feeling because
analysis really isn't that good a tool.
At a university they had the freshman class make the same predictions
that some of the well-known psychics do every year, and they found the
freshman class did better.
Everyone is psychic. Being psychic is not a particular talent.
Everybody has a left foot. Some people may just walk with that foot,
some people may drag it, and some may learn to dance with it.
They get you when you're young. When you are a kid, you are
conditioned. You are taught language, customs, and right and wrong. You
are filled with fears. This conditioning interferes with your psychic
perception.
There is something very fragile about the beginning stages of psychic
development. Eventually, one becomes very strong, and the cushioning
isn't as necessary. It is still logical because we live in an abrasive
world.
As a sensitive person, when you put yourself around other people, you
feel their desires, you feel their angers, and you feel their
frustrations. You begin to believe that these desires, angers, and
frustrations are yours.
The tremendous population increase has made meditation and psychic
perception, things that come naturally to spiritually evolved people,
difficult to practice and participate in.
The psychic plane is clouded over by emotions and thoughts and the
general dullness and malaise that develops in our contemporary world
through the social conditioning that most individuals experience in the
modern era.
If you have more personal power and you are in higher states of mind,
then naturally you can see things and adhere to them or avoid them.
Personal power is really the issue.
When I'm in the second attention, when I stop looking through eyes that
have been formed for me by others, I see something else. I see power.
You should be drawing awareness from a deeper part of your being. Your
deeper mind has everything already. It knows everything already. It has
all the answers.
It is always wise, particularly in the beginning, to balance your new
intuitive and psychic understandings with good old common sense. A good
psychic perception follows your common sense.
Emotions are there to enjoy life; but they are not used in
self-reflection because they inhibit a proper reflection. They gunk us
up.
Continually reorder the mind and the mental structures, the ability to
think in prescribed ways, to analyze in prescribed ways, and to stop
thought for periods of time.
Being psychic does not necessarily mean seeing an event that has not
yet occurred. It is rather seeing the inner nature of something.
Psychic development is not a fanatical, freaky study, predicting the
future, talking to UFOs, and being able to find out curious facts that
are basically irrelevant to one's time in life.
At a university they had the freshman class make the same predictions
that some of the well-known psychics do every year, and they found the
freshman class did better.
It is very hard to perceive the future on a regular basis simply
because the future changes.
A person who is psychic is following a line of probability to see a
probable future; but it can change. Another causal fact will interfere
and that future won't happen.
Everything is a state of mind. Astral travel is the ability to wander
through different states of mind and develop psychic perceptions.
It is possible to contact higher beings who are not in the body. But
the being you really want to contact is you.
The psychic does not have much to do with channeling. All you are doing
is getting information from a source that may or may not be accurate
and may or may not have underlying motives.
Be happy and free. Be able to see psychically and understand what is
going on in the universe, what your luminosity is about, how to reorder
your luminous fibers.
- Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz
Thank you for your religious tolerance in advance.
mutated...@web.com
writers who are overly verbose linkers of spirtual catch phrases. I
recommend people to seek enlightenment, but going through a stage of
attending to cosmic snake-oilers is probably not the most direct route.
It's likely that Ph D really does this time signify "Piled Higher and
Deeper" and we aint talking piles of books.
(My friends call me Muty)
Muty
Taoist Buddhist Monk
I'm sorry our quotations are not really up to the Taoist newsgroup
standards. I just thought it would be fun to discuss some of them and
maybe talk about Taoism, my Taoist brother. Maybe you could shed some
light on areas of Taoism that aren't covered by our quotations. I
would enjoy that, good friend.
Please accept my appologies for not offering you more inspiring quotes;
we chose these quotes from our Zen Master's lectures, maybe we made
poor choices. Thank you for the course correction.
*Bows*
Love & Hugs,
Curly
Julian
{:-])))
>Muty:
>
>I'm sorry our quotations are not really up to the Taoist newsgroup
>standards. I just thought it would be fun to discuss some of them and
>maybe talk about Taoism, my Taoist brother. Maybe you could shed some
>light on areas of Taoism that aren't covered by our quotations. I
>would enjoy that, good friend.
I'm not sure Muty is in the grove.
He cud be a NewAge dude.
At any rate, it might be fun
if you did pick a quote or two
that you feel pertain to Taoism
in some way. By doing so it would
open a door to discuss how they
relate to Taoism and Taoism
could be talked about.
>Please accept my appologies for not offering you more inspiring quotes;
>we chose these quotes from our Zen Master's lectures, maybe we made
>poor choices. Thank you for the course correction.
Netiquette is usually
taken for granted
but not always.
>*Bows*
Cheers.
>Love & Hugs,
Passing bottomless
>Curly
-around the campfire
mutated...@web.com
really want a something Taoist, here is the bit I love.
The way that can be spoken of is not the constant way,
The name that can be named is not the constant way.
The nameless was the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named was the mother of the myriad creatures.
Hence always rid yourself of desires in order to observe its secrets
But allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its
manifestations
These two are the same but diverge in name as they issue forth
Being the same they are called mysteries.
Mystery upon mystery -
The gateway of the manifold secrets
Or if you want the bigger picture, you could just follow this link
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.09/lenz.html
and then find yourself a proper teacher with a lineage rather than
someone who was very clever but not very wise.
And as another poster has written, do keep your hand on your wallet.
(My friends call me Muty)
Muty
Off Topic Safety Tip:
And do be careful of your curlies if you're dancing bottomless around
the campfire. Come to that, never encourage a topless woman to make
hot soup.
{:-])))
>Off Topic Safety Tip:
>And do be careful of your curlies if you're dancing bottomless around
>the campfire. Come to that, never encourage a topless woman to make
>hot soup.
After beginning
to wonder bout
who s'ports w'hat why
wear and how, it o curs
a gr'ant may dew a trick.
A Pear Ent li
Dennis Merzel has been
given $165,000 by the Lenz folk
to fast-track self-realization.
Gerry Wick has been
given $31,250 to help publish
books involving emptiness.
http://www.fredericklenzfoundation.org/grants.asp
A suggested donation for a day workshop
at Dennis' place was $135.00, $90 for members.
It well, ribbit, cud be food
furry thoughts how people find
enlightenment. Sum individuals may
feel books and workshops are worth
every penny and mulch m'ore.
Just because a dude killed himself
or got himself killed by others
may not detract from the teaching,
e.g. Jesus and his movement.
Cults are curious too.
It was said that who so ever
is not willing to forsake family
and all else can't go far, or a long
those lines, you get the drift,
c.f, Christianity - the early daze.
When I set foot on 'the path',
one of the first pieces of information
which arrived stated that the truth
is free of charge, and anyone
who charges doesn't have it.
For me, it set a stage
and eye remains in the wings.
Never-the-less, the Zz costs money
and aye, bought two at present.
Course One is free online
and may be at a library, n'ear wu.
There may be lots of good stuff
in the writings of Lenz and Wick
and Dennis may share fruits
from his particular tree.
I still
am unsure
how those things pertain
to Dao-ism, and Dao Jia
in particular.
-a round de
campfire in a bamboo grove
shazi
>Muty wrote:
>>Off Topic Safety Tip:
>>And do be careful of your curlies if you're dancing bottomless around
>>the campfire. Come to that, never encourage a topless woman to make
>>hot soup.
thx muty...good advice!
>After beginning
>to wonder bout
>who s'ports w'hat why
>wear and how, it o curs
>a gr'ant may dew a trick.
>
>A Pear Ent li
>Dennis Merzel has been
>given $165,000 by the Lenz folk
>to fast-track self-realization.
>
>Gerry Wick has been
>given $31,250 to help publish
>books involving emptiness.
>
>http://www.fredericklenzfoundation.org/grants.asp
>
>A suggested donation for a day workshop
>at Dennis' place was $135.00, $90 for members.
jay, you're doing research!
good finds...
>It well, ribbit, cud be food
>furry thoughts how people find
>enlightenment. Sum individuals may
>feel books and workshops are worth
>every penny and mulch m'ore.
sometimes the price of a book
covers the cost of publication.
sometimes way more.
most authors in the field
of daojia and academic text analysis
don't really make diddlysquat
from publication.
for example, henricks publishes.
it costs money for his works.
not much. but not only is it
worth the price, imo, but
prehaps without the price
and the fact that the publisher
makes money on making them,
we wouldn't have access to such
information.
>Just because a dude killed himself
>or got himself killed by others
>may not detract from the teaching,
>e.g. Jesus and his movement.
fair enough.
but self-destruction
based upon delusional paranoia
seems distinctly inconsistent
with daojia/o, rujia, hinduism, buddhism,
all things lenzorama preached.
buddhist groups distanced himself.
otoh, jesus, paul, peter, socrates, others,
had many of the characteristics of cult leaders
and in some cases,
committed ancient equivalences of
'suicide by cop'. prehaps.
>Cults are curious too.
>It was said that who so ever
>is not willing to forsake family
>and all else can't go far, or a long
>those lines, you get the drift,
>c.f, Christianity - the early daze.
strangely consistent, true?
>When I set foot on 'the path',
>one of the first pieces of information
>which arrived stated that the truth
>is free of charge, and anyone
>who charges doesn't have it.
sagehood can be a craft
a well defined tradition in daojiao
divination for a price
dancing at funerals for a fee
joining up for five bushels
pay up and you can receive your transmission.
pay by money
pay by servitude
pay by obsessive following
pay to play.
>For me, it set a stage
>and eye remains in the wings.
>Never-the-less, the Zz costs money
>and aye, bought two at present.
>Course One is free online
>and may be at a library, n'ear wu.
true enough.
>There may be lots of good stuff
>in the writings of Lenz and Wick
>and Dennis may share fruits
>from his particular tree.
but deconstructing the teachings
with a sceptical eye
there seems to be a formula:
infuse new-age with material desire
stir in some buddhist/daoist bullshit
and voila! instant happiness.
pseudowisdom.
>I still
>am unsure
>how those things pertain
>to Dao-ism, and Dao Jia
>in particular.
only to the extent that lenzorama's
methods are a form of five bushels.
five bushels of what?
>-a round de
>campfire in a bamboo grove
u better watch your curlies, tho.
-shazi
{:-])))
>jz wrote:
>most authors in the field
>of daojia and academic text analysis
>don't really make diddlysquat
>from publication.
Gerry's stuff seems to be inexpensive.
I wonder about making money
and\or living well due to people
appreciating what one provides.
Watts considered himself
to be a sort of philosopher\entertainer.
He never got rich and supposedly died
due in part to much drinking. To me,
that makes no difference in how I
thoroughly enjoy his lectures and books.
Other entertainers are paid a great deal.
And all cuz folks like to be entertained.
I find self-realization\enlightenment and
all types of New Age stuff entertaining
but I'm too cheap to spend much on it.
I wonder if Lenz spoke of Zz.
For me, Zz is tops.
>>Just because a dude killed himself
>>or got himself killed by others
>>may not detract from the teaching,
>>e.g. Jesus and his movement.
>
>fair enough.
>but self-destruction
>based upon delusional paranoia
>seems distinctly inconsistent
>with daojia/o, rujia, hinduism, buddhism,
Jesus could have been said
to have been delusional and paranoid.
Of course he may not have been
in accord with daojia either.
But what of De?
If it's your p'art to play a martyr
or a drunkard or a druggie then
does that exclude you from being
any kind of Daoist? Just wondering.
>all things lenzorama preached.
>buddhist groups distanced himself.
Apparently not all buddhist groups.
And maybe not everything he taught.
I haven't been reading the quotes
and can only wonder how much daojia
or the rest of the stuff he spoke of.
So far, Curly and friends have not
impressed me in the slightest degree
to actually read what Lenz wrote.
Posting a bunch of quotes
that appear to be out of context
strikes me as having nothing
to do with Daoism. It would take
more of a discussion of the dude
and of what he wrote to entice me.
>otoh, jesus, paul, peter, socrates, others,
>had many of the characteristics of cult leaders
>and in some cases,
>committed ancient equivalences of
>'suicide by cop'. prehaps.
The fact that a person isn't perfect
or doesn't measure up in some respects
to a standard we might hold, does that
exclude everything the person said?
I always appreciated Jung and associate
synchronicity with him. It seems however
that he had what could be called a flaw
or flaws that fly in the face of him being
a role model in some ways. This does not,
imo, take away from synchronicity.
From what I've read of the ancient Greeks,
some would have been executed today
given their propensity for 'immoral' activities
and this culture being such as it is.
What judgements are not encultured?
>>Cults are curious too.
>>It was said that who so ever
>>is not willing to forsake family
>>and all else can't go far, or a long
>>those lines, you get the drift,
>>c.f, Christianity - the early daze.
>
>strangely consistent, true?
Yes.
Plus the idea of a commercial
enterprise may not be in keeping
with what some consider good taste.
The Lenz folk may have lots of bread
which they invest as suits their fancy.
Does commercialism exclude spirituality?
It's possible that the spammers are being
paid to do what they love to do. And so far
he or they have chosen not to actually
discuss the merits of any particular quote.
There might be some Daoism in there
but it remains to be seen if any or how much.
>>When I set foot on 'the path',
>>one of the first pieces of information
>>which arrived stated that the truth
>>is free of charge, and anyone
>>who charges doesn't have it.
>
>sagehood can be a craft
>a well defined tradition in daojiao
>divination for a price
>dancing at funerals for a fee
>joining up for five bushels
>pay up and you can receive your transmission.
>pay by money
>pay by servitude
>pay by obsessive following
>pay to play.
Mick Jagger once sang something
about how every cop is a criminal
and all the sinners saints. I wonder
if he was a Daoist. Gnarly!
>>For me, it set a stage
>>and eye remains in the wings.
>>Never-the-less, the Zz costs money
>>and aye, bought two at present.
>>Course One is free online
>>and may be at a library, n'ear wu.
>
>true enough.
>
>>There may be lots of good stuff
>>in the writings of Lenz and Wick
>>and Dennis may share fruits
>>from his particular tree.
>
>but deconstructing the teachings
>with a sceptical eye
>there seems to be a formula:
>infuse new-age with material desire
>stir in some buddhist/daoist bullshit
>and voila! instant happiness.
>
>pseudowisdom.
And if people get a lift from t'hats
and are willing to pay however much
they are charged, does that make it bad?
For me the quest'ion revolves
a round and round Daoism and Usenet.
Lenz may fit well in a New Age group.
I still don't get the Daoism part
unless it's to cull for recruits.
>>I still
>>am unsure
>>how those things pertain
>>to Dao-ism, and Dao Jia
>>in particular.
>
>only to the extent that lenzorama's
>methods are a form of five bushels.
>
>five bushels of what?
Some shit is better than others.
>>-a round de
>>campfire in a bamboo grove
>
>u better watch your curlies, tho.
Ever dangling a participle
the tune of a drummer marched
in the forest looking for sea turtles.
>-shazi
shazi
>shazi wrote:
>>most authors in the field
>>of daojia and academic text analysis
>>don't really make diddlysquat
>>from publication.
>I wonder about making money
>and\or living well due to people
>appreciating what one provides.
hard to say. hard to say.
seems to me that the true sage
is deep inside everyone.
that one who sells himself as a sage
roshi, zen master, etc....
i don't know. doesn't work for me.
in my hindu/yoga daze
in awe of the guru, then
seeing the reality.
everybody shits pretty much the same.
on the other hand,
one who makes music for hire
makes much more than
one who makes music for spirit
yet the effort is certainly the same.
what's that about?
>Watts considered himself
>to be a sort of philosopher\entertainer.
>He never got rich and supposedly died
>due in part to much drinking. To me,
>that makes no difference in how I
>thoroughly enjoy his lectures and books.
drinking, heart failure, well he moved on.
was watts ever a roshi?
although he taught at sf zen centre
i dont think he claimed any transmission.
cud be wrong.
>I wonder if Lenz spoke of Zz.
>For me, Zz is tops.
googling ramaquotes.com
laozi (both Lao Tzu and Lao Tse)
are only mentioned in passing,
freddyrama thought he hobnobbed
with him in a past life...
zhuangzi doesn't appear anywhere.
(no chuang either)
>But what of De?
is de some kind of fate/karma?
hadn't observed that before.
but i haven't spent much time
thinking about de.
>If it's your p'art to play a martyr
>or a drunkard or a druggie then
>does that exclude you from being
>any kind of Daoist? Just wondering.
no. witness us, for example.
i remember--vaguely--one drunken stupor
when someone was telling me how hypocritical
my life was because i was so toasted,
yet my practice said something about
not acting so.
i felt badly at the time, but later,
came to realise that drinking is what drunks do.
and some drunks have a natural talent for it,
and are incredibly miserable without.
so what is the dao of the drunk?
>I haven't been reading the quotes
>and can only wonder how much daojia
>or the rest of the stuff he spoke of.
>So far, Curly and friends have not
>impressed me in the slightest degree
>to actually read what Lenz wrote.
i decided to read some.
bored i guess.
many words, some good
many seem self-serving
drawn mostly from the new-age stuff
a bit passe.
>The fact that a person isn't perfect
>or doesn't measure up in some respects
>to a standard we might hold, does that
>exclude everything the person said?
no, of course not.
but to some, the words of the
'fully realised person' become canonical.
hence dao de *jing*
funny how zhuangzi never got
the canonical status of jing.
>I always appreciated Jung and associate
>synchronicity with him. It seems however
>that he had what could be called a flaw
>or flaws that fly in the face of him being
>a role model in some ways. This does not,
>imo, take away from synchronicity.
to me jung rocks.
didn't bill visit with him?
>Plus the idea of a commercial
>enterprise may not be in keeping
>with what some consider good taste.
one thing lenz did teach,
that i find perhaps self-serving,
but on the other hand, why not?
why should any realised person
take some sort of vow of poverty?
or be celibate?
that he made a lot of money
and had a good time with the female adepts
perhaps colors things a bit,
but on the other hand,
encouraging his followers to
get marketably smart in computer
science wasn't all bad.
>The Lenz folk may have lots of bread
>which they invest as suits their fancy.
but i think of a historical group
who found a high degree of serenity
in the footsteps of another cult leader,
by the name of Ann Lee (1736-1784)
Ann Lee thought she was the
reincarnation of Christ,
much like some of the latest
gurus or new-age cult heros.
yet Ann Lee founded a movement (shakers)
that has lasted to today, albeit in the
form of a handful of remaining shakers.
shakers were both communal as well
as highly productive in their crafts.
and their philosophy of life was
as close to teachings of daojia
as i can think of in the west.
(with the exception, perhaps, of
the celibacy thing)
what if lenz had not gone paranoid
and actually created a long-term
sustaining society? he had many
of the right ingredients. but alas,
all utopian societies fail, and
his was heirarchal and not utopian.
>Does commercialism exclude spirituality?
>It's possible that the spammers are being
>paid to do what they love to do. And so far
>he or they have chosen not to actually
>discuss the merits of any particular quote.
i don't think the spammers
actually know anything of daoism.
they're fish out of water,
as it were.
>And if people get a lift from t'hats
>and are willing to pay however much
>they are charged, does that make it bad?
bad? good? away with these!
rulers getting rich whilst
the adepts suffer at menial jobs
or even starve, that is feidao
according to daodejing.
lenz was living large
of the largess of his adepts
not at all different from the
christian powerbrokers who are
the money behind today's right.
all powerstructures abuse.
>For me the quest'ion revolves
>a round and round Daoism and Usenet.
>Lenz may fit well in a New Age group.
>I still don't get the Daoism part
>unless it's to cull for recruits.
clearly it is.
eventually the 18million
will run out.
there need to be new blood.
>Some shit is better than others.
it's all shit and it's all dao.
>Ever dangling a participle
>the tune of a drummer marched
>in the forest looking for sea turtles.
;-)
-shazi
{:-])))
>jz wrote:
>> shazi wrote:
>one who makes music for hire
>makes much more than
>one who makes music for spirit
>yet the effort is certainly the same.
>
>what's that about?
It could be an encultured humility
which goes along with a 'spiritual' path.
Materialism and spiritualism can be
seen to be mutually exclusive.
Another facet could be
a lot of individuals who are spiritually
inclined simply don't care about money
enough to rake in hoards of cash.
>was watts ever a roshi?
>although he taught at sf zen centre
>i dont think he claimed any transmission.
>cud be wrong.
My impression was that he held
himself in high esteem while also
seeing the same essence in others.
When people started hanging on his
every word, he downplayed it and
said not to put too much emphasis
on what it was he was saying.
Lots of Daoist in him, imo.
>>But what of De?
>
>is de some kind of fate/karma?
One interpretation is how de
is a particularization of dao. One's
own individual grain, as it were.
There can be virtue in being
simply how one is.
>came to realise that drinking is what drunks do.
>and some drunks have a natural talent for it,
>and are incredibly miserable without.
>so what is the dao of the drunk?
The Zz uses it as a metaphor.
When a drunk falls out of a cart ... .
>to me jung rocks.
>didn't bill visit with him?
As I recall the story,
one couldn't find a cure
and Jung told one to seek
others with the same trouble
and in so doing, spirit cures spirit.
Apparently they were acquainted.
Not sure if a face to face took place.
Jung knew Roland. Sew it w'Ents.
Spiritus contra Spiritum.
Totally profound.
Jung rocks.
>>Plus the idea of a commercial
>>enterprise may not be in keeping
>>with what some consider good taste.
>
>one thing lenz did teach,
>that i find perhaps self-serving,
>but on the other hand, why not?
>why should any realised person
>take some sort of vow of poverty?
>or be celibate?
It could be a sort of siddhi.
Ego may vex one's path.
Could be a koan in its'elf.
>what if lenz had not gone paranoid
>and actually created a long-term
>sustaining society?
It's interesting what can last
thou sands of y'ears, oar m'ore.
>>And if people get a lift from t'hats
>>and are willing to pay however much
>>they are charged, does that make it bad?
>
>bad? good? away with these!
>rulers getting rich whilst
>the adepts suffer at menial jobs
>or even starve, that is feidao
>according to daodejing.
The DDJ does seam
to indicate what bad\fei-dao is.
>>For me the quest'ion revolves
>>a round and round Daoism and Usenet.
>>Lenz may fit well in a New Age group.
>>I still don't get the Daoism part
>>unless it's to cull for recruits.
>
>clearly it is.
>eventually the 18million
>will run out.
>there need to be new blood.
I guess Usenet is
as good way to reach
m'any fish.
downint...@yahoo.com
Taoist Buddhist Monk wrote:
> Muty:
>
> I'm sorry our quotations are not really up to the Taoist newsgroup
> standards.
so it's not enough to take up space on Buddhist groups, you feel the
need to irritate other groups also.
And then when you meet irritation. You can feel more holy by pointing
out - here at least you are sarcastic - what they should be doing
instead of expressing their natural reaction to being lectured to by a
neo-buddhist.
these are the steps taken by the spiritually pure
1) Lecture unasked
2) REspond to irritation by hinting at or explaining how people really
should react
3) respond to further irritation by comparing those irritated to nazis
4) at all times consider oneself the unjustly victimized relayer of the
truth
5) don't notice the amount of space you are taking up because this
might make it harder to believe 4
6) assume that people will not find the best selling author's words on
their own and that they must be bombarded with advertising. It works
for McDonald's.
7) Cling to words said by a dead man rather than responding to NOW.
shazi
>shazi wrote:
>>was watts ever a roshi?
>>although he taught at sf zen centre
>>i dont think he claimed any transmission.
>>cud be wrong.
>
>My impression was that he held
>himself in high esteem while also
>seeing the same essence in others.
>When people started hanging on his
>every word, he downplayed it and
>said not to put too much emphasis
>on what it was he was saying.
>Lots of Daoist in him, imo.
truly. he was very playful as well.
>>>But what of De?
>>
>>is de some kind of fate/karma?
>
>One interpretation is how de
>is a particularization of dao. One's
>own individual grain, as it were.
>There can be virtue in being
>simply how one is.
'particularization of dao'.
for whatever reason,
i've not given much thought to de.
perhaps its because the term 'virtue'
doesn't do well in my unvirtuosity.
if i were to name what i see de
it is the extent of ability
or power one has to be in harmony
with dao. such a thing cannot
be internally aware, for once
aware of it, it falls away.
-shazi
{:-])))
>jz wrote:
>>One interpretation is how de
>>is a particularization of dao. One's
>>own individual grain, as it were.
>>There can be virtue in being
>>simply how one is.
>
>'particularization of dao'.
>for whatever reason,
>i've not given much thought to de.
>perhaps its because the term 'virtue'
>doesn't do well in my unvirtuosity.
>
>if i were to name what i see de
>it is the extent of ability
>or power one has to be in harmony
>with dao. such a thing cannot
>be internally aware, for once
>aware of it, it falls away.
Yes. Eye seas.
De can be lost as well
as dao can be lost at times.
The image of a toboggan
run forms in my mind-sigh. There is
a groove to be in and walls to climb.
To do it smooth with the greatest
ofease is optimal de.
In the Zz is a story
about a Woman Crookback
and some proto-sage dude.
Nan-po Tzu-k'uei was asking
and she told of Pu-liang Yi.
Talent can be a virtue.
One's gifts may be one's de.
-sew two speak
stumper
Even to be good at something is losing Dao.
--
~Stumper
{:-])))
>Even to be good at something is losing Dao.
Eye knot follows.
Cook Ting lost Dao?
Hunchy? Wheelwright Pien?
Woodcarver Ching?
Please explain.
-tia
stumper
All depends on the perspective.
[Daodejing ch.38 -- Feng]
A truly good man is not aware of his goodness,
And is therefore good.
A foolish man tries to be good,
And is therefore not good.
A truly good man does nothing,
Yet leaves nothing undone.
A foolish man is always doing,
Yet much remains to be done.
When a truly kind man does something, he leaves nothing undone.
When a just man does something, he leaves a great deal to be
done.
When a disciplinarian does something and no one responds,
He rolls up his sleeves in an attempt to enforce order.
Therefore when Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is kindness.
When kindness is lost, there is justice.
When justice is lost, there ritual.
Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of
confusion.
Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of Tao.
It is the beginning of folly.
Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real and not
what is on the surface,
On the fruit and not the flower.
Therefore accept the one and reject the other.
[end of quote]
Of course,
these words are not for butchers.
Or even for scholars.
--
~Stumper