BT Charge cards.
Not Authenticated
Does Anyone know the fromula to generate valid BT charge card
numbers??
Maybe theres a program out there to do this, but if there is, I
sure as hell can't find it on the net.
Thanx for your time and patience with my seemingly stupid questions,
Jack.
P.S. As usual, this e-mail addresss ain't real, so please post answeres
here. thanx again.
Darkcyde
Not Authenticated wrote:
>
> Does Anyone know the fromula to generate valid BT charge card
> numbers??
> Maybe theres a program out there to do this, but if there is, I
> sure as hell can't find it on the net.
>
Don't be silly.
RappaT
well, coolect millions of chargecard numbers and you might find a system
in them and you'd be able to make yer own ones. but why do you need to
make 'em if ya already got millions of 'em then?
silly question. silly answer
Numen
I think people are being a bit unfair on the chap. It's not actualy as
silly as it might
seem (although it isn't the most sensible of questions either).
If it's possible for a French guy to crack a 128bit (I think) Netscape
encryptions
key, then it is possible to work out a verification pattern within a
realy quite
small smaple of charge cards (like maybe a dozen).
I understand (though poorly) that genetic algorithms are particularly good
at this. And
I've also read a book on neural networks and pattern recognition in C++.
Now
while most of the book went over my head (my math just isn't strong
enough).
Pattern recognition of the sort the above chap is suggesting is possible
for
a mature programmer, it doesn't appear to be genius level stuff.
Of course this is ignoring the fact that someone somewhere knows this
pattern, and that they don't tell anyone. It's also presumming that it
hasn't simply been
published in a journal or something.
From my browsing through P/H material, and resources on the net the
patterns of
several charge / credit cards seem to be know to the P / H community.
Just my thoughts.
-Numen
-tol...@dircon.co.uk
On 11 June 1996, RappaT wrote...
jw...@delphi.com
Darkcyde <happy...@bagleys.co.uk> writes:
>> Does Anyone know the fromula to generate valid BT charge card
>> numbers??
>> Maybe theres a program out there to do this, but if there is, I
>> sure as hell can't find it on the net.
>>
>
>Don't be silly.
Squidge
I would just like to state that Numen did this, not me :-
: If it's possible for a French guy to crack a 128bit (I think) Netscape
: encryptions
First of all, I think this was actually 40 bit (rc40?). It was
crippleware, as required by ITAR and the US Government.
: key, then it is possible to work out a verification pattern within a
: realy quite
: small smaple of charge cards (like maybe a dozen).
Did you ever do science at school ? or logic ? Obviously not. I have no
idea how you can infer from somebody breaking RC40, that somebody can
calculate chargecard numbers.
What if the numbers are just allocated sequentially (perhaps starting on
some arbitrary number). Dead easy to guess, but what if some real-time
check is made to see if the account exists ?
Squidge - Having just written 1200 lines of Ada in 4 hours :(
--
"don't mess"
squidge - The Guild
trma...@comp.brad.ac.uk
Andy
On 14 Jun 1996 00:26:33 GMT, Numen <tol...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>If you can find out what the pattern is then at least you can
>produce potentialy valid numbers, and eliminate a potentialy huge number of
>invalid ones.
What makes you think there is a pattern? It can be safely
assumed that there is no connection between valid
numbers and the PIN, and so how would you test these
valid numbers you might have found? Try 9999 PIN's for
each number?
I think the amount of time and effort that is involved in
this task would be better spent elsewhere if free calls are
your aim.
Andy.
Numen
First off, this is speculative, I'm not claiming to be an expert at
anything. I find a
dialougue to be more productive than a budding flame war.
As I understand it when something is encrypted, it follows a pattern ie. a
no brainer
encryption ROT 13, the pattern is a rotation of the characters by 13.
I also believe that many card numbers have a verification pattern as a
first line of
defence. If you can find out what the pattern is then at least you can
produce
potentialy valid numbers, and eliminate a potentialy huge number of
invalid
ones.
My point being that I was considering patterns is the assignment of
digits, whether
binary or decimal. I was not thinking of a program that is going to
magicaly
guess a valid in use card number. I am also not talking about any other
verification methods that may be employed. I feel this to be a reasonably
logical train of thought.
I was also replying to an initial post, and hoping to point out that it is
possible to miss
valueable considerations, by simply deriding the poster. Is there a
patern emerging here :)
I have talked to a friend who is currently comming to the end of a PHD,
largely
involving Genetic Algorithyms, for Rolls Royce. Establishing algorithyms
between engine parameters and test results.
His opinion is that that establishing patterns is number assignment goes
into the
realms of Genetic Programming, rather than GA, but that it is definately
doable.
And as for "I would just like to state that Numen did this, not me", gosh,
I feel so lame.
I'm crushed. Comming from an Ada guru, I just must be an arsehole.
On 13 June 1996, Squidge wrote...
DreamShadow
In article: <4pp6d0$8...@columbia.acc.brad.ac.uk> trma...@comp.brad.ac.uk (Squidge) writes:
::
:: I would just like to state that Numen did this, not me :-
:: : If it's possible for a French guy to crack a 128bit (I think) Netscape
:: Squidge - Having just written 1200 lines of Ada in 4 hours :(
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thats what you get for codeing in Ada though isn't it :)
:: squidge - The Guild
:: trma...@comp.brad.ac.uk
-:DreamshadoW:-
-=:Little by little we cross the line:=-
-=:Fast is the descent, and easy is the way:=-
jw...@delphi.com
Squidge <trma...@comp.brad.ac.uk> writes:
>Did you ever do science at school ? or logic ? Obviously not. I have no
>idea how you can infer from somebody breaking RC40, that somebody can
>calculate chargecard numbers.
generated cards is askingg for trouble. MCI suffered huge levels
of fraud around August '94 when 'certain patterns on certain cards'
were found. This also affected AT&T in the early 80's. Nowadays the
major companies will usually let their customer pick the pin or
generate the last 4 digits totally at random. Thaats not to
say that there isn't a multitude of companies left using cards that
are generated on mathematics alone. Besides, rather than going to
all that trouble, why not ask someone for their card number instead?.
If asked in the right way, most people will happily divulge their
number. As for the realms of code breaking - Who can say? Do you
REALLY know what kind of power US government computers have?.. Maybe
their technology is 50 years ahead of what we know and they're not
saying..
Robbie Longworth
an...@andyland.demon.co.uk (Andy) wrote:
> I think the amount of time and effort that is involved in
> this task would be better spent elsewhere if free calls are
> your aim.
To get the numbers all you need to do is shoulder surf at a busy
railway station or something.. Im not saying do it though that would
be naughty..
---
Robbie Longworth (Preston UK)
[eb...@dial.pipex.com]
Toxic
In article <31c5b2e7...@158.43.128.9>, Robbie Longworth (eb...@dial.pipex.com) writes:
>an...@andyland.demon.co.uk (Andy) wrote:
>
>> I think the amount of time and effort that is involved in
>> this task would be better spent elsewhere if free calls are
>> your aim.
>
>To get the numbers all you need to do is shoulder surf at a busy
>railway station or something.. Im not saying do it though that would
>be naughty..
>
>---
Wouldn't it be splendid if an anoymous user with spoofed
packets was to post some of those numbers here ?
:-)
Again, I'm not saying 'Do It', just 'That would be COOL' !
Cheers !
Toxic..
~~~~
________ ____ __ ___ __ _____
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http://www.aeinc.com/web/Toxic/index.htm |/___ PHREAK !!
~/_/~~~~~~~~\____/~~~/___/|___/~~~/_/~~~~\____/ UK2600
Chase
In article <RTDO0e...@delphi.com>, jw...@delphi.com wrote:
> Over the years companies have learned that having non-random
> generated cards is askingg for trouble. MCI suffered huge levels
> of fraud around August '94 when 'certain patterns on certain cards'
ahh, the happy days of having thousands of calling cards waiting in
yer inbox :) pity the poor fools who bought them and then got caught
out when MCI killed them all in one go :)
Problem with that little mistake was the cards had being set up
weird, they'd work fine from the UK, but if you tried to use them
from the states they wouldn't.......
> were found. This also affected AT&T in the early 80's. Nowadays the
> major companies will usually let their customer pick the pin or
> generate the last 4 digits totally at random. Thaats not to
> say that there isn't a multitude of companies left using cards that
> are generated on mathematics alone.
heh, who needs mathematics when there's still plenty using ACN + PIN
cheers
Chase
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Chase
In article <4...@ppse.win-uk.net>, ppie...@ppse.win-uk.net (Toxic) wrote:
>
> Wouldn't it be splendid if an anoymous user with spoofed
> packets was to post some of those numbers here ?
>
what on earth has packet spoofing got to do with faking news and BT
charge cards ?
>
> Again, I'm not saying 'Do It', just 'That would be COOL' !
>
no, the cards would be cancled within a few hours, in fact it would
be just plain stupid.