Bunny Farting
sha...@wantree.com.au
Dear Fellow Bunny Lovers,
We have a 6 months' old female English butterfly and she's not
neutered. She's an absolute delight and she's a very happy bunny with
the run of the whole house. The only problem we have with her is she
farts a lot and it's a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the
smell and will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
We've read once in this newsgroup that it could be a digestion
problem. We keep her on a strict diet of unlimited rabbit pellets,
hay, carrots and resitricted vegies. Could it be because she runs in
the garden a lot and may be eating weeds? What can we do...it's a real
problem especially since she lives in my room. She only goes back to
her cage if she has diarrhea. She's a real spoilt brat.
Edmund & Sharon
& Hazel (I'm the queen of the house!!)
Jeffrey Allen
sha...@wantree.com.au wrote:
> The only problem we have with her is she farts a lot and it's
> a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the smell and
> will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
My bunny got over her farting problem when I switched her to
a different brand of rabbit pellets. If only I could come up
with a solution that would work for my roommate ...
--Sean
Catherine E. Carow, Ph.D.
Hi Sharon,
sha...@wantree.com.au wrote:
>Dear Fellow Bunny Lovers,
>
>We have a 6 months' old female English butterfly and she's not
>neutered. She's an absolute delight and she's a very happy bunny with
>the run of the whole house. The only problem we have with her is she
>farts a lot and it's a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the
>smell and will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
>
>We've read once in this newsgroup that it could be a digestion
>problem. We keep her on a strict diet of unlimited rabbit pellets,
>hay, carrots and resitricted vegies. Could it be because she runs in
>the garden a lot and may be eating weeds? What can we do...it's a real
>problem especially since she lives in my room. She only goes back to
>her cage if she has diarrhea. She's a real spoilt brat.
From what you have said about your bunny being a "stinker" it sounds
like she may have a cecal overproduction problem. Feeding an unlimited
amount of rabbit pellets *is not* a strict diet. Pellets are high in
fat and many digestive/cecal overproduction problems in bunnies can be
alleviated by cutting back on the amount of pellets fed. My 6 lb.
mini-lop gets only 1/4 c. of pellets/day for example, along with as much
hay as he wants to eat (timothy, *not* alfalfa, which is too high in
calcium for buns). Feeding more hay is OK, becuase it has far less fat,
yet still has a good amount of fiber/protein. Try cutting back on
pellets and giving more hay and see how that works. If this doesn't
help, it's likely that she may be sensitive to whatever she is getting
in your garden...some bunnies are sensitive to greens and in general,
new greens should be offered to a bunny one at a time so that this can
be monitored. Also, some weeds (foxglove/morning glory/nightshade) can
be very poisonous, too. Keep an eye out for these where your bunny is
running. If cutting back on the pellets does not seem to help and you
know that she hasn't eaten any greens outside, *she should see an
experienced rabbit vet*.
Access to fresh greens/veggies should not be restricted if your bunny
can tolerate them well. Mine get 1-2 c. per day along with the hay and
pellets. For a list of what veggies can be fed/how much to feed, check
the HRS website at http://www.rabbit.org/
Hope this info. is helpful,
Catherine
cec...@u.washington.edu
William Rieske
It's the diet your feeding her that's causing the flatuance problem. She
should only have at max 1/4 c of pellet food a day..unlimited hay, and
about 1/2 c of fresh high fiber/low water content veggies (per 5 pounds
body weight). And the fact that she runs around in the garden could be a
problem too..not because it's causing her to fart but becaause it's very
likely there are poisonious plants that she could consume..
you need to restrict her diet a little more and keep her in the house and
make sure she gets pleanty of exercise.
Roxanne
k2ra...@imperium.net
sha...@wantree.com.au wrote:
>We have a 6 months' old female English butterfly and she's not
>neutered. She's an absolute delight and she's a very happy bunny with
>the run of the whole house. The only problem we have with her is she
>farts a lot and it's a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the
>smell and will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
If it truly is gas (and not the smelly scent glands) you can use
pediatric Phazyme (or other brand that contains the ingredient
simethicone) to give the bunny to help break up the gas. It is very
safe, over-the-counter, and only works in the digestive system, is not
absorbed into the bloodstream so will not cause any reaction with
other drugs/substances.
Have you noticed any particular food that bothers her more? One of my
bunnies cannot tolerate broccoli without gas and diarrhea.
Kristi
Bean, Cinnamon & Pebble
Jeff Carter
> Dear Fellow Bunny Lovers,
>
> We have a 6 months' old female English butterfly and she's not
> neutered. She's an absolute delight and she's a very happy bunny with
> the run of the whole house. The only problem we have with her is she
> farts a lot and it's a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the
> smell and will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
>
> We've read once in this newsgroup that it could be a digestion
> problem. We keep her on a strict diet of unlimited rabbit pellets,
> hay, carrots and resitricted vegies. Could it be because she runs in
> the garden a lot and may be eating weeds? What can we do...it's a real
> problem especially since she lives in my room. She only goes back to
> her cage if she has diarrhea. She's a real spoilt brat.
>
> Edmund & Sharon
> & Hazel (I'm the queen of the house!!)
I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
suppervised. I have been raising and breeding rabbits commercialy for the
pet industry for the past ten years and I have seen to many bunnies hurt
and even die due to being left loose when people are not home. In regards
to your problem, part of it may be that you are overfeeding. once a
rabbit is over 4-6 months old, depending on size, they should be limited
in the amount fed. I'm not fammiliar with the breed of English Butterfly,
it is not a breed that we have here in the US, however, the most that a
large breed (mature weight of over 8 puonds) should be fed is no more then
8 ounces a day.
Jeff Carter
I do not mean to sound bad, however, rabbits do NOT need fresh veggies.
An ocasional carrot here and there is fine, but if giving veggitables on a
daily bases you greatly reduce the animals lifespan. You also have a much
higher chance of it getting a case of fatal diarea. And unless you grow
all the veggies yourself you have a high chance of posioning your pet.
Jeff
JAC's Exotic Ani-Mall
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
>
> I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
> bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
> suppervised.
With proper bunny proofing it is perfectly safe to allow a rabbit to run
free in a home.
--
Lisa Denkinger
Whadda Group Communications
http://www.whadda.com
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
>
>
> I do not mean to sound bad, however, rabbits do NOT need fresh veggies.
> An ocasional carrot here and there is fine, but if giving veggitables on a
> daily bases you greatly reduce the animals lifespan. You also have a much
> higher chance of it getting a case of fatal diarea. And unless you grow
> all the veggies yourself you have a high chance of posioning your pet.
According to some of the very best companion rabbit vets, rabbits do
indeed require clean, fresh vegetables as part of a well balanced diet.
I think this may a relatively new (within the past 10 years) dicovery.
Please check out http://www.webcom.com/hrs/dietcare/dietcarehome.html
for some wonderful diet information prepared by one of the most
well-respected companion rabbit vets in the U.S.
Erika Linden Green
In article <328F74...@whadda.com>, Jeff Carter wrote:
> > I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
> > bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
> > suppervised.
What!?!? Cruel?
Tell that to my two rabbs, bunny dancing all over my hut. Sure, they're in
their (spacious) cage when I'm not home, but when I'm around, they have
free reign. They also force me to be neat and make sure all cords are off
the floor.
Rabbits NEED to romp. They're rabbits, it's what they do. It's especially
hilarious to see them slipping around on the hardwood floor. At first they
couldn't navigate it at all, but now they're developed a specialized form
of Hardwood Floor Navigation. Highly evolved animals, my two little
Dutchs...The especially like darting onto slippery rugs and messing them
up. They've seemed to discover that my bed is NOT a place to pee, rather
it is MY nest.
Erika, and the master/mistress of the house, Thor and Albrecht.
Coleah
In article <jeff-17119...@wizzard.tiac.net>, je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter) says:
>I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
>bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
>pet industry for the past ten years and I have seen to many bunnies hurt
>and even die due to being left loose when people are not home.
Please share what dangers to bunnies have caused them injury and death.
This would help us to protect them in additions ways.
My Priscilla sleeps most of the day whether we are home or not, but I
don't want to miss something I should be more aware of than I am now.
Thanks Jeff,
Coleah
=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=
*Coleah*
Vancouver, WA
http://www.pacifier.com/~coleah
=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=v=
Jeff Carter
I would be interested in finding out who the "most well-respected
companion rabbit vets in the U.S." is. I would also ask if the studies
were based on a high quality rabbit food or a "pet store" brand of feed.
Also has this vet done any studdies in large scale rabbit fasillities?
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
>
>
> It is never possible to tottaly bunny proof a home. It also is mentaly
> and emotionaly cruel to give a rabbit the run of a house. If the pet has
> a cage it has a space that is his/her own. This gives the rabbit a
> feeling of safty and comfort.
I agree that it *can* be dangerous to allow a rabbit to have free run in
an area not properly set up for that purpose, I don't this can be
emphasized enough. However, I have to disagree with your statement that
bunny proofing is "never possible". I would think one would need to
actually look at the home in question to determine how safe it is. If
I'm missing something, please enlighten me.
I also fail to see why it would be considered to be "mentally and
emotionally cruel" to allow a rabbit a home's worth of space to
explore. Please share with the group why you feel this why.
Finally, I think most animals will choose favorite areas no matter where
they are. A rabbit retreat could be as simple as a cardboard box or a
cool hiding place under a table, it doesn't have to be a cage.
Lisa Denkinger
I wrote:
> > According to some of the very best companion rabbit vets, rabbits do
> > indeed require clean, fresh vegetables as part of a well balanced diet.
> > I think this may a relatively new (within the past 10 years) dicovery.
> > Please check out http://www.webcom.com/hrs/dietcare/dietcarehome.html
> > for some wonderful diet information prepared by one of the most
> > well-respected companion rabbit vets in the U.S.
Jeff Carter wrote:
> I would be interested in finding out who the "most well-respected
> companion rabbit vets in the U.S." is.
I referred to "*one* of the most respected companion vets in the U.S. I
doubt anyone could claim the title of "most respected..."
Here's a short list of some very well know companion rabbit vets,
including the vet in question, who've worked extensive with rabbits.
Many of these doctors have published both books and articles on rabbits
care:
Dr. Susan Brown, Midwest Bird & Exotic Animals Hosp.,Illinois(author of
the care info. on the web page I recommended.)
Dr. Barbara Deeb, Allpet Veterinary Clinic of Shoreline-Seatle
Washington
Dr. Carolyn Harvey, VCA Bay Area Pet Hospital, Oakland California
Dr. Jeff Jenkins, Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital, Mission Valley
California
These are just a few excellent rabbit vets who recommend vegetables as
part of a good rabbit diet. This, and my personal experience, is why I
firmly believe that feeding veggies will not kill rabbits.
>I would also ask if the studies
>were based on a high quality rabbit food or a "pet store" brand of feed.
I believe that these vets recommend only limited quanitities of high
fiber and low protein pellets for rabbits who eat pellets. In some
cases, specialized diets don't even include pellets.
> Also has this vet done any studdies in large scale rabbit fasillities?
These vets have extensive rabbit practices, but I'm not sure if they
work much with rabbitries or the like. Individuals and families who are
hoping for long and healthy lives for their beloved pets are the people
these diet recommendations were meant for. I would imagine, however,
that feeding fresh greens at large scale rabbit facilities would require
a lot of work and money. If my facts are straight, these facilities
aren't as concerned with longevity as they are with other goals.
You might note that the title of this newsgroup is alt.pets.rabbits and
most of the discussion revolves around companion rabbits rather than
rabbits in commercial settings.
Jeff Carter
> Jeff Carter wrote:
>
> >
> > I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
> > bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
> > suppervised.
>
> With proper bunny proofing it is perfectly safe to allow a rabbit to run
> free in a home.
>
> --
> Lisa Denkinger
>
> Whadda Group Communications
> http://www.whadda.com
It is never possible to tottaly bunny proof a home. It also is mentaly
and emotionaly cruel to give a rabbit the run of a house. If the pet has
a cage it has a space that is his/her own. This gives the rabbit a
feeling of safty and comfort.
Jeff
k2ra...@imperium.net
je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter) wrote:
>I would like to comment that it is very dangerous and cruel to give a
>bunny the run of a house. Even house pets should be caged when not
>suppervised. I have been raising and breeding rabbits commercialy for the
>pet industry for the past ten years and I have seen to many bunnies hurt
>and even die due to being left loose when people are not home.
This doesn't have to be the case if the house is bunny proofed - cords
covered, etc. I keep my bunnies confined to a bunny proofed portion
of our house when we are not home and they do just fine.
Kristi
k2ra...@imperium.net
je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter) wrote:
>I do not mean to sound bad, however, rabbits do NOT need fresh veggies.
>An ocasional carrot here and there is fine, but if giving veggitables on a
>daily bases you greatly reduce the animals lifespan.
Many prominent rabbit vets now recommend veggies as part of a balanced
diet for rabbits. My 3 get them daily along with unlimited hay and a
small amount of pellets and they are happy, active and healthy. Each
bunny can react differently to certain veggies, though. If you're
starting in veggies, do it gradually. I have one bunny who cannot
tolerate broccoli, it gives him gas & diarrhea.
>You also have a much
>higher chance of it getting a case of fatal diarea.
Yes, this is true in young bunnies. Veggies should be introduced
slowly after the bunny is about 4 months old.
>And unless you grow
>all the veggies yourself you have a high chance of posioning your pet.
We grow our own and buy organic when we can. When organic isn't
available and it's winter in our garden, we soak everything and wash
each piece to help with any pesticides that may have been used.
Jeff Carter
> I agree that it *can* be dangerous to allow a rabbit to have free run in
> an area not properly set up for that purpose, I don't this can be
> emphasized enough. However, I have to disagree with your statement that
> bunny proofing is "never possible". I would think one would need to
> actually look at the home in question to determine how safe it is. If
> I'm missing something, please enlighten me.
>
I agree that some rooms may be bunny proofed. I still do not believe that
an entire house can be though. I very simple reason is that any time that
you have painted or stianed wood furnature in a room it is not bunny
proof. The reason is that rabbits need to chew to keep there ever growing
teeth at a proper length. Therefor there is always the posibilaty of the
rabbit chewing the furnature and ingesting the toxic wood. Even if they
do not actualy eat the wood they are still getting the toxic paint. That
is just one obviouse reason.
> I also fail to see why it would be considered to be "mentally and
> emotionally cruel" to allow a rabbit a home's worth of space to
> explore. Please share with the group why you feel this why.
>
Rabbits are not "explorers" by nature. In the wild the rabbit keeps to a
very small area. When they are exposed to go out of that space it
frightens them and takes away there scence of security. This causes a
great deal of stressto the rabbit. This is why generation after
generation of rabbits will use the same den, simply put they are to scared
to find a new one. By leaving a rabbit to "explore" a house is very
stressing as the rabbit does not have the security of a den.
Jeff Carter
Thank you for the information. I will in all honesty be conntacting the
vets to see what research there recomendations are based on. I'm always
looking for new dietary information to pass on to my clients. I am very
open minded to new practices as long as they are based on ligitiamte
research.
> > Also has this vet done any studdies in large scale rabbit fasillities?
>
> These vets have extensive rabbit practices, but I'm not sure if they
> work much with rabbitries or the like. Individuals and families who are
> hoping for long and healthy lives for their beloved pets are the people
> these diet recommendations were meant for. I would imagine, however,
> that feeding fresh greens at large scale rabbit facilities would require
> a lot of work and money. If my facts are straight, these facilities
> aren't as concerned with longevity as they are with other goals.
>
No offence but I am very tired of hearing how rabbit breeders have no
concern for there animals and "aren't as concerned with longevity as they
are with other goals". This is absolutly absurd. If one thinks aboute it
logicly the healthy the rabbit is the better for the producer. They are
going to have larger litters, and have a longer breeding life. When their
breeding life is expanded then you do not need to keep as many replacement
animals to raise up. Terefor you sell more and you feed less. I know
this from personal experiance. I own a medium sized rabbitry (up to 100
breeding does). I raise them strictly for the show and pet market. I
currantly have a Mini Rex doe in my heard that is 7 years old. she is
only 3 pounds 8 ounces and is still having 5 to 6 babbies per litter.
PLEASE STOP CLASSIFYING BREEDERS AS BAD GUYS.
Rose Fitzpatrick
Jeffrey Allen wrote:
>
> sha...@wantree.com.au wrote:
> > The only problem we have with her is she farts a lot and it's
> > a real stinker. Even she herself cannot stand the smell and
> > will stamp her little feet, grunts and run off.
>
My bunny, Grover used to fart to show me how much he loved me. Before I
had him neutered, he would charge around my feet and nip my ankles to
get my attention. I didn't want to reward him with attention for this
kind of behavior, so I would do my best to ignore him. But his next step
was to start grunting and farting as he raced around my feet. It always
made me laugh.
Grover doesn't fart anymore, but he is still as affectionate as ever. He
circles my feet in the morning and tugs on my bath robe or unties my
shoe to get my attention: much better!
Rose
Grover and Theo's mom)
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
> I agree that some rooms may be bunny proofed. I still do not believe that
> an entire house can be though. I very simple reason is that any time that
> you have painted or stianed wood furnature in a room it is not bunny
> proof. The reason is that rabbits need to chew to keep there ever growing
> teeth at a proper length. Therefor there is always the posibilaty of the
> rabbit chewing the furnature and ingesting the toxic wood. Even if they
> do not actualy eat the wood they are still getting the toxic paint. That
> is just one obviouse reason.
You make a good point. People need to be aware of what type of things
there rabbits are likely to have contact with. However, not all woods
and paints are toxic. Also, many rabbits don't chew baseboards,
especially if appealing, safe chewables are available. I've even heard
of people attaching bunny-safe woods to their real baseboards.
Here's an example of a similar concern: I know of many situations where
rabbits have injured themselves by catching toenails in cages. A wound
like this could become infected or worse. Reacting to this information
by warning people that cages are absolutely unsafe would be extreme at
best. My point is that a home can be just as safe as another
environment if the people involved are responsible. It seems to me that
we're splitting hairs (hares?? hee hee!) here. I believe that the
decision and responsibility belongs to the caretakers.
> Rabbits are not "explorers" by nature. In the wild the rabbit keeps to a
> very small area. When they are exposed to go out of that space it
> frightens them and takes away there scence of security. This causes a
> great deal of stressto the rabbit. This is why generation after
> generation of rabbits will use the same den, simply put they are to scared
> to find a new one. By leaving a rabbit to "explore" a house is very
> stressing as the rabbit does not have the security of a den.
I have a couple of thoughts on this. First, I've seen many rabbits who
liked to explore. I also don't see how allowing a rabbit to run free in
a home is *forcing* them to expand their territory to fill the availalbe
space. The wild rabbits you refer to certainly have far more space
available than they use.
You're definitely right about fact that rabbits enjoy being inside and
under things they feel are theirs. Allowing free run doesn't mean
people can't also have an open cage or cardboard box or whatever, that a
rabbit can use as a den. Sometimes, it's a space under a table that's a
rabbit's choice for a hideout. I don't think these types of options
would cause a rabbit undue stress.
I want to thank you for speaking up because it's important to warn
people of possible risks. I also think the vast majority of these risks
can be controlled if not eliminated.
I think I'm done with this topic for now. Please feel free to reply. I
don't think I have much left to say, but I suppose I may be suprised.
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
> No offence but I am very tired of hearing how rabbit breeders have no
> concern for there animals and "aren't as concerned with longevity as they
> are with other goals". This is absolutly absurd. If one thinks aboute it
> logicly the healthy the rabbit is the better for the producer. They are
> going to have larger litters, and have a longer breeding life. When their
> breeding life is expanded then you do not need to keep as many replacement
> animals to raise up. Terefor you sell more and you feed less. I know
> this from personal experiance. I own a medium sized rabbitry (up to 100
> breeding does). I raise them strictly for the show and pet market. I
> currantly have a Mini Rex doe in my heard that is 7 years old. she is
> only 3 pounds 8 ounces and is still having 5 to 6 babbies per litter.
I want to point out that I've *never* said that breeders have no concern
for their animals. I may not be particularly fond of the practice, but
that isn't even the issue here. This conversation is on the topic of
diet. I've chosen to engage in this dialog because I believe that your
original comments on vegetables being fatal weren't accurate.
About my comments on a breeder's concern for longevity, I was under the
impression that the vast majority of the rabbits who ever inhabit a
rabbitry leave the facility within the first couple of years. Am I
wrong?
Also, I know of many companion rabbits who have lived to be 10, 12 etc.
I've not met but have heard of rabbits who've lived to be 18-20. These
are the types of ages I was referring to. Your situation is quite
different from that of the average pet rabbit owner and that was all I
was trying to point out. I struggled with the wording I chose in an
attempt not to be judgemental but factual.
As for your statement that you raise rabbits strictly for the show and
pet market I believe you recently posted a message to the contrary:
**WARNING: Particularly sensitive readers may want to skip this quote.**
------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: bunny wont breed
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:58:57 -0500
From: je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter)
Organization: JAC's Exotic Ani-Mall
Newsgroups: alt.pets.rabbits
References: 1 , 2 , 3
I agree fully. Not only do I breed rabbits for meat I also will butcher
and eat my show/breeder rabbits that are to old or stop producing.
Jeff
-------------------------------------------------
Please try to respect the intelligence and memories of the people on
this list. I would also ask that everyone on the list try to stick to
discussing pet rabbits here. I doubt that I'm the only one who feels
this way.
I believe you made the more recent statement on breeding only for show &
pets because you feel I'm beating up on you. Please let me clarify. I'm
not trying to be nasty or judgemental. I know I'm not going to change
your feelings about breeding nor will you change mine.
This is a plea to everyone on the list: Let's just try to keep things
civil and stick to discussing issues related to proper care. I truly
believe that there are things we discuss on this list which result in
rabbits receiving better care.
Jennifer Royce
je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter) wrote:
>Rabbits are not "explorers" by nature. In the wild the rabbit keeps to a
>very small area. When they are exposed to go out of that space it
>frightens them and takes away there scence of security. This causes a
>great deal of stressto the rabbit. This is why generation after
>generation of rabbits will use the same den, simply put they are to scared
>to find a new one. By leaving a rabbit to "explore" a house is very
>stressing as the rabbit does not have the security of a den.
That must be why my rabbits leap and dance across my living room all
evening and bang on the cage door when I forget to let them out to
play on time!
I feed them in their cage. I don't physically take them out of their
cage - I just open the door. They have no real reason to come out,
but they do, and they do happily.
Wild rabbits have a lot of things to fear, and justifyably so. But my
buns have learned that they are safe here and play without care,
stress, or worry in my home.
They are allowed only in the living room, which is rabbit proofed, and
only when I am home. Otherwise they're in a big 2 level 3'x3' cage.
Nobun has access to the bedroom because I don't want to even try to
rabbit-proof the computer. :)
Jen and Bailey and Zoe
Alan W. Bostick
In article <3290B7...@triryche.com> Rose Fitzpatrick <ro...@triryche.com> writes:
>From: Rose Fitzpatrick <ro...@triryche.com>
>Subject: Re: Bunny Farting
>Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:20:53 -0500
So that's what our Lucy is doing! She only does it if she seems to want
attention. She also stamps her feet too!
Cindi
Jeff Carter
> About my comments on a breeder's concern for longevity, I was under the
> impression that the vast majority of the rabbits who ever inhabit a
> rabbitry leave the facility within the first couple of years. Am I
> wrong?
>
Alot depends on if you are referring to a commercial meat producer or a
show/pet breeder. In eather case logic prevals that a magority of the
animals must be sold to keep the business in opperation. However, at the
same time the producer must hold back breeding stock. The animals sold
for butcher are sold at aboute 12 weeks. The pet producer sells at 4 to 8
weeks old. The show producer will not sell depending on the breed untill 4
months or older. The average breeding life a rabbit it a meat operation
is 4-5 years and a doe is 3-4 years. Show/pet producers have a much
longer breeing life and many of these breeders place a rabbit in a loving
home when they stop pruducing.
> Also, I know of many companion rabbits who have lived to be 10, 12 etc.
> I've not met but have heard of rabbits who've lived to be 18-20. These
> are the types of ages I was referring to. Your situation is quite
> different from that of the average pet rabbit owner and that was all I
> was trying to point out. I struggled with the wording I chose in an
> attempt not to be judgemental but factual.
I have had animals that have lived to be over 15 years old. This is,
however, the exception and not the rule. I would like to point out that
many people that purchase rabbits for pets are looking for a "disposable"
pet. They want a pet that is not going to take up 10-20 years of their
life.
> As for your statement that you raise rabbits strictly for the show and
> pet market I believe you recently posted a message to the contrary:
> ------------------------------------------------
> Subject:
> Re: bunny wont breed
> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:58:57 -0500
> From: je...@wizzard.tiac.net (Jeff Carter)
> Organization: JAC's Exotic Ani-Mall
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.rabbits
> References: 1 , 2 , 3
>
> I agree fully. Not only do I breed rabbits for meat I also will butcher
> and eat my show/breeder rabbits that are to old or stop producing.
>
> Jeff
> -------------------------------------------------
it is funny how people can missinterpet a message. I adimit I used to
breed rabbits strictly for meat and meat sales. What I was refering to in
the above statement was that I use my Cull rabbits for my own personal
Consumption. I No longer sell rabbits for meat nor do I breed them for
meat, there are some bunnies that just do not end up being good show
animals so I eat them.
Jeff
Lisa Denkinger
Jeff Carter wrote:
> there are some bunnies that just do not end up being good show
> animals so I eat them.
Again I ask you, please try to stick to pet rabbit issues here. Many
people are quite sensitive to this issue and it really doesn't need to
be discussed here.
cjfr...@aol.com
We have a four month-old Netherland Dwarf we let romp around under
supervsion. She has chewed on the walls, the carpet, electrical cords; and
my modem cable, which needed to be replaced. It's worth it. She's getting
to be a friendly companion. And I sware she comes when I call her. Call it
conincidence, call it hysterics. I hate knowing she has to cooped up in
her cage. That's why we always set a few hours a day to let her hop
around. Sometimes she plops over and takes a nap in the middle of the
livingroom. (All that running can tire a bunny out.)
lai...@aol.com
<warning: An attempt at humor follows - read at your own risk!>
Ummm folks, I think the argument that veggies kill rabbits is pretty
moot. We can pretty well establish by examining a rabbit's dentition that
rabbits are herbivores. Rabbits didn't appear yesterday. II haven't seen
any self-service rabbit pellet fast food chains out in the wild (where, I
guess, rabbits would pay for them with those little round droppings they
seem to leave around!) And I haven't seen any rabbits stalking prey out
in the fields. So I will make a leap of faith and assume that wild
rabbits (and our domestic rabbit is of the same specieis as the European
wild rabbit) have survived and evolved by eating fresh veggies and grasses
in the field.
Pellets are for the most part processed alfalfa with other ingrediants
added that vary depending on the manufacturer of the pellets. Pellets,
like other pet foods, exist for two reasons - to provide a source of
nutrition and energy that comes reasonably close to meeting the
nutritional requirements, and for convenience.
To the average pet rabbit (and this is NOT a slam at those here who are
NOT average - and it would be WONDERFUL if all pet owners had the degree
of knowledge about their rabbit's health and nutrition that most readers
of this newsgroup have), a regular diet of pellets beats the heck out of
some of the things that people willt ry to feed them... mashed potatoes,
tuna fish, potato chips, you name it.
The ideal diet for a rabbit PROBABLY (and I say probably because it is
subject to debate) includes lots of fresh hays and grasses (maintains
gastric motility among other things) and fresh veggies. The nutritional
contents of these items can be obtained from a good quality pellet. The
rabbit STILL needs the hay.... I personally think they still need fresh
veggies although not in the quantity they might need if they weren't
getting pellets....
What do my rabbits eat? A good quality pelleted feed, fresh veggies every
day, and continuous access to hay. The veggies vary by season, by day,
and by what's on sale at the grocery store. (Sorry when parsely is $2 for
a tiny sprig we find another veggie!). Generally though we're talking
romaine lettuce, spinach, parsely, kale (unless they have to watch their
oxalates) and so on....
Does it work? Well, my rabbits took Best of Breed and Best Opposite Sex
of breed Saturday at a show. The rabbits do this regularly. One of my
little guys was the 4th place tan senior Jersey Wooly buck at the ARBA
convention.
Obviously fresh veggies aren't hurting my rabbits at least :)
And one more comment - I think most of us are here because we care about
our rabbits - whether we breed and show rabbits, have them as pets, rescue
them, or any or all of the above. Can we PLEASE stop fighting? Let's
focus on the bunnies - there are people who don't have a clue as to how to
take care of them. Let's talk about our rabbits and set an example. And
let's look for information and knowledge from all sources, filter it out
according to common sense and vet advice, and not worry so much as to
whether the source is a breeder or not. Most breeders are pet owners too
:)
bun...@aol.com
Lisa,
I agree and will try.
Ellen
lai...@aol.com
Guys, it's been made VERY clear that people find discussing eating rabbits
to be VERY offensive in this newsgroup. So why keep doing it? It just
makes people mad. This is sounding like a child who likes to say "bad"
words just for the shock value and reaction it elicits.
Think of the internet as a library, reading room, or entertainment spot.
If it says "no smoking" or "shirt and shoes required" you follow the rules
or you don't go. I don't often see anyone forcibly removed from a public
place because they weren't complying - but people comply anyway. It's
their sense of responsibility and community.
The name of this newsgroup IS Alt.Pets.Rabbits. It's pretty darned clear
that it's about pets, and it's a darned good bet that most people who love
their bunny as a pet aren't gonna like the thought of eating Thumper. I'm
a breeder. I follow the guidelines here. We can all do that.
If you don't I hope the majority of the people reading here recognize that
you speak for yourself, NOT breeders in general. I'll say it again.
Nasty posts reflect on the person POSTING the nasty message - not on the
rest of us.
If you want to discuss breeding questions, head over to ShowBunny and ask
away - that's the appropriate place.
--Lisa
(and anyone who wants to eat MY rabbits is gonna have to deal with me
first!)
sha...@wantree.com.au
Firstly, I like to thank everybody for their advise about my bunny
farting problem and I am happy to say that the advise worked. I gave
her much less pellets and more vegies and she is farting a lot less. I
am now trying to switch her to another brand of pellet and hopefully
the problem will go away entirely.
Secondly, I would like to say I agree with Lisa's point about being
able to bunny proof the house if we are responsible enough. My bunny
roams the whole house and I always make sure there is nothing to
injure her before I let her out of the room. Also I closely supervise
her whenever she is roaming around.......and so far my bunny has never
been injured.
Thirdly, I agree with Lisa's point about a bunny favourite hideout and
that they love to explore. My baby's hideout is under my desk in my
room. She will absolutely not sleep anywhere else but there. I know
she is very happy because whenever she sleeps there, she will flop
sideways onto the carpet, stretch out all four paws, head sideways on
the carpet too and sleep with her eyes close. Sometimes her mouth will
open slightly and she looks like she is drooling. Actually she looks
like she is dead until you look closely to see that she is breathing
and her nose still twitches occassionally.
Moreover, she is the most inquisitive rabbit I've ever seen.....she is
forever trying to poke her nose into any activities or thing that's
new in the house and she is forever trying to break out of the house
to explore the neighbourhood. She has already broken out a couple of
times and those time I really had to chase her like hell to get her
home. So Jeff's suggestion that the rabbit is stressed out when given
free run of the house is definitely not true, since mine thinks the
house is not enough!!
Sharon and Hazel the English Butterfly
Martin Montreuil
For what it's worth, I'd like to pass along a bit of rabbit-proofing
advice. In hardware stores they sell various sizes of clear tubing
that can be purchased fairly cheaply by the foot. You then use a
razor blade, cut it lengthwise, and wrap it around the cords. It
closes back on itself, and the bunnies can't chew through it. Well,
mine was making good progress on one, but overall, it saves a lot of
aggravation, though it's tedious work. My bunny was getting me in
trouble, as he prefers the computer wires. Now everyone is much
happier.
Jackie