How best to stop siblings breeding
Marco
George Wood wrote:
> They are brother & sister! When bought we all thought they were both
> female - just shows how wrong the experts even can be.
Yep, beware of so called experts. :)
> Now they are approaching 12 months old aand nearing sexual maturity
> I'd like the groups opinions on the best way to stop them inbredding (
> a very bad thing IMHO).
Very bad thing indeed...
> Is it possible to have the female sterilised or is it a dangerous
> operation?
It is possible, but it's too risky a procedure and hardly ever performed.
The only case that I personally know of was of an amazon that was a
chronic egg layer.
> Your thoughts and comments please.
Well, the most effective thing you can do is keep to separate them... if
you see them getting too 'friendly' just put them in separate cages, side
by side to keep each other company.
Aside from that, and if you decide to keep them housed together, do not
provide a nest box, minimize stimuli that might get them 'in the mood' and
toss any eggs that she might lay.
Good luck with Magoo and Dotty... hopefully you won't have to deal with
them trying to breed.
Marco
Vicki Robinson
<Now they are approaching 12 months old aand nearing sexual maturity
<I'd like the groups opinions on the best way to stop them inbredding (
<a very bad thing IMHO).
We have a large cage with two unrelated birds, and their four
children. The single male "baby" has been assiduously courting one of
his sisters, and she seems inclined to reciprocate. We haven't done
anything to discourage mating. We won't, as Marco suggests, provide
nesting site or do anything to encourage egg-laying, but if it occurs,
we'll just remove the eggs and replace them with fake eggs. (They
sell fakes in well-equipped bird stores, they're indistinguishable
from the real thing.) The birds will take care of them until they get
bored, and we won't have to worry about inbred babies.
It's not mating you need to worry about, it's breeding, and it's as
simple as removing any fertile eggs.
Vicki
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Tviokh
<Georg...@highrise.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Is it possible to have the female sterilised or is it a dangerous
>operation?
Ever thought about keeping them in seperate cages?
To me, that'd be the easiest solution to stop inbreeding.
Yes it's a dangerous operation and isn't something any reputable vet
would do unless the bird's life was at risk if the operation weren't
performed(it's usually done on chronic egg layers after other ways of
stopping them from laying have failed).
Tviokh
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Tviokh
>It's not mating you need to worry about, it's breeding, and it's as
>simple as removing any fertile eggs.
Removing eggs before the hen is done sitting will only cause her to
lay more eggs to replace them. If she does this enough, she can wind
up with serious health problems, some of which can be deadly.
If you decide to keep them caged together, your best bet is to either
shake or boil the eggs, put them back, and let her sit until she
abandons them.
EH
Even without the nestbox they could get sexually active. Mine where
sexually active for a long time before she laid eggs. My female also
lay her first egg without a nestbox. If she does you can replace the
eggs with fake once. I have been to many pet stores and looked for
the fake eggs but none of the stores I went to had them.
Anyway I send for a catalog and they have the fake eggs. If anyone
is looking for them here is the address:
Feeding Tech
1900 S Anderson Street # 11
Elwood, IN 46036
On 11 Nov 2001 14:14:10 GMT, vjr...@xcski.com (Vicki Robinson) wrote:
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Vicki Robinson
<On 11 Nov 2001 14:14:10 GMT, vjr...@xcski.com (Vicki Robinson) wrote:
<
<>It's not mating you need to worry about, it's breeding, and it's as
<>simple as removing any fertile eggs.
<
<Removing eggs before the hen is done sitting will only cause her to
<lay more eggs to replace them. If she does this enough, she can wind
<up with serious health problems, some of which can be deadly.
<
Which is, of course, why I said to replace them with fake eggs sold by
bird stores. They are, as I said, indistinguishable from real eggs,
the birds buy them as real, so they happily sit on them until they
don't hatch.
I agree that you don't just remove the eggs. That's why I said to
replace them with fakes.
Suzzie
sizes of fake bird eggs out of many different materials. It's probably
easier and cheaper to get them there.
> If she does you can replace the
> eggs with fake once. I have been to many pet stores and looked for
> the fake eggs but none of the stores I went to had them.
> Anyway I send for a catalog and they have the fake eggs. If anyone
> is looking for them here is the address:
>
> Feeding Tech
> 1900 S Anderson Street # 11
> Elwood, IN 46036
>
--
Suzzie
http://Suzzie.tripod.com
http://www.geocities.com/suzzie526/
Vicki Robinson
<craft stores (ie jo anns, michaels, hobby lobby) sell many different
<sizes of fake bird eggs out of many different materials. It's probably
<easier and cheaper to get them there.
That's true, but since they're not made to be rolled around and sat on
by a bird, I'd worry about their hardiness. I'd hate to have one of
hte birds end up eating part of one and getting sick. Also, the bird
store fake eggs have the right mass; craft-store eggs are likely to be
hollow and 'way too light. These guys are smart, especially about how
eggs are supposed to look and feel. The bird-store eggs were exactly
the right shape (not all bird eggs are shaped like cockatiel eggs),
mass, size and color.
Vicki
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Family and Divorce Mediation Resources
http://xcski.com/~mediator/
--
Tviokh
>Which is, of course, why I said to replace them with fake eggs sold by
>bird stores.
Oops! Sorry, I missed that last time around. :)
Tommy
separate.
Vicki Robinson
<It doesn't seem right to me, to remove fertile eggs. I would keep them
<separate.
<
It seems far worse to me to separate birds who are part of a flock,
who are used to interacting with each other. And they'd have to be
permanently separated; does one have to stay alone, or do you end up
creating two flocks? Cockatiels are social birds, they depend on each
other. It seems really mean to separate them.
A fertile egg, early on, has a couple of cells, nothing more. If it's
an inbred chick (which, by the way, isn't automatically a bad thing;
good traits can be magnified as well as bad), it may be better just to
stop it from developing from those few cells. No nervous system yet,
no pain, no consciousness.
I'd have a problem removing an egg with a fully-formed chick inside,
too. But a small red spot? Nah.
Suzzie
and materials, you can easily find tiel eggs (and no, they are not all
hollow). I've never had a problem with them.
> That's true, but since they're not made to be rolled around and sat on
> by a bird, I'd worry about their hardiness. I'd hate to have one of
> hte birds end up eating part of one and getting sick. Also, the bird
> store fake eggs have the right mass; craft-store eggs are likely to be
> hollow and 'way too light. These guys are smart, especially about how
> eggs are supposed to look and feel. The bird-store eggs were exactly
> the right shape (not all bird eggs are shaped like cockatiel eggs),
> mass, size and color.
--
Alex Clayton
birds tend to want to think about the egg as a baby, it's not. As she said
keeping the two birds separate could be a real mess, with them calling to
each other and constantly trying to get to each other.
--
for e-mail alex...@yahoo.com
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:9sok07$dt4$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
Tviokh
>It seems far worse to me to separate birds who are part of a flock,
>who are used to interacting with each other. And they'd have to be
>permanently separated; does one have to stay alone, or do you end up
>creating two flocks? Cockatiels are social birds, they depend on each
>other. It seems really mean to separate them.
Simply because they live in seperate cages doesn't mean they can't
interact.
If the cages are side by side, they can still easily see and talk to
each other.
If they're tame, they can also have supervised playtimes together.
I've had cause to seperate my budgie pair AND my cockatiel pair due to
spats and one bullying the other for whatever reason. This was
especially true for my budgie pair when they both hit puberty..the
female turned vicious towards the male.
With the 'tiels, the older male just decided one night to NAIL the
younger female for apparently no reason(if I had to guess, I'd say it
was because she was either on a perch he wanted, or was too close to a
toy he wanted). They were seperated for a week, and live together
again...he hasn't displayed that temper since that night.
As long as the birds could still see and hear each other, they were
fine.
EH
their siblings inbreed then seperating them just so the eggs can be
replaced by fake eggs. They still could be seperated next to each
other and let out for playtime together.
Lutinos for example where inbreed a long time ago and now they
recommend not to breed 2 Lutinos together because of the bald spot on
the head. Even with breeding a Lutino with another cockatiels hasn't
gotten rite of the bald spot.
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:19:05 +0000, George Wood
<Georg...@highrise.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi all, I've been lurking here readng all the 'intelligent and
>knowlegeable' comments.
>
>I forsee a problem with my pair of tiesl!
>
>They are brother & sister! When bought we all thought they were both
>female - just shows how wrong the experts even can be.
>
>Now they are approaching 12 months old aand nearing sexual maturity
>I'd like the groups opinions on the best way to stop them inbredding (
>a very bad thing IMHO).
>
>Is it possible to have the female sterilised or is it a dangerous
>operation?
>
>Your thoughts and comments please.
>
>My tiels are called Mr Magoo (formerly Maggie) a standard gray and
>Dotty - a cinnamon pearl. Both are, of course the darlings of my
>life.
>
>
>TIA.
>George Wood
>
>
>'We fly you better'
Vicki Robinson
<Maybe its me but I don't understand why some people would rather have
<their siblings inbreed then seperating them just so the eggs can be
<replaced by fake eggs. They still could be seperated next to each
<other and let out for playtime together.
My feelings are that I want them to be able to be together to preen
each other and squabble over a toy even when I'm not there to let them
out. I don't care if they mate. Why should I? Mating is normal
activity for healthy birds and it doesn't bother me.
I don't want inbred chicks, but inbreeding is not the same thing as
allowing them to mate.
Not everyone, in fact, has room to add another cage within calling and
sight distance of the present cage. If I separate my birds, I have to
really separate them; one will have to actually move to another floor
in the house. I don't want to do that.
When Luna and Piper were sitting on eggs, I had to separate Piper; he
was being mean to her and I didn't trust him to not really hurt her.
But I didn't like it, and when the babies were old enough to fight
back if necessary, we introduced them and finally he was allowed to go
home and rejoin the flock. But if you want them never to mate, the
separation has to be permanent. I'm not willing to do that.
You prefer separating mating siblings, I prefer to replace eggs (if
they lay any, which is never certain). They are just two different
ways of handling the problem of inbreeding.
Alex Clayton
who are related to breed is not like a brother and sister human. The birds
have no comprehension of being "related" to each other. The birds are flock
creatures and seek out interaction with other birds. If they breed, so what?
You fool the hen with some fake eggs, and you do not have to worry about
inbred chicks and possible problems.
--
for e-mail alex...@yahoo.com
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:9sp8di$ugh$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
Vicki Robinson
<I think someone is imparting "human" feelings to animals. Allowing two birds
<who are related to breed is not like a brother and sister human. The birds
<have no comprehension of being "related" to each other. The birds are flock
<creatures and seek out interaction with other birds. If they breed, so what?
<You fool the hen with some fake eggs, and you do not have to worry about
<inbred chicks and possible problems.
Exactly my point. However, I'm going to be a nit-picking pedant
(sorry, it's my job) and say that you mean "If they mate, so what?"
instead of "If they breed..." We want to prevent breeding, but mating
is no big deal. Except if my kids are in the room, they think it's
icky.
Alex Clayton
--
for e-mail alex...@yahoo.com
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message news:9spaf9$..." We
Tommy
should not be allowed to breed.
Vicki Robinson
<Removing fertile eggs is kinda like abortion to me. The birds just
<should not be allowed to breed.
<
They're not being allowed to breed. But they *can* mate if they want
to.
rose mary jones
small , but it is still a life GOD put it here and to kill it to me is
wrong .. Hay the birds don"t know who is who . They know no sin >> so
let the little ones hatch . Love them as God loves you. Who knows what
your family tree looks like hahahaha
Vicki Robinson
How fatuous, and how irresponsible! I agree you don't penalize the
birds who have no notion of kinship; that's why I let them stay together
and form their bonds. But destroying an egg is hardly infanticide.
Allowing successive generations of progressively more inbred birds does
nothing but weaken the breed and create birds increasingly susceptible
to disabilities and disease.
Never. That's the worst possible thing you can do if you really care
about caged birds.
By the way, I kill living things all the time. I don't allow my dog
to harbor fleas. I got rid of the wasps that were living under my
siding and stinging my daughter. When I get strep, I take antibiotics
which kill streptococcus bacteria. I won't live with vermin in my
house, including rats and mice. How do you handle these things? Just
live with 'em?
Alex Clayton
news:26616-3BF...@storefull-612.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Been to the grocery store lately?
Suzzie
--
rose mary jones
to love and care for . NO i dont let my dog and cat keep fleas or ticks
As for mice etc. i get rid of them as easy as i can . I start with a
clean house and a good cat , as God intended
Vicki Robinson
How different is a mouse from a bird? Really? They are both bred as
pets and beloved of people who keep them.
And please don't call me "Sweetie."
Joy Dickinson
lot of stores sell fertilized eggs as food, because some people think
they're better for you than unfertilized eggs.
Personally, I think this is ridiculous -- humans kill animals ALL the time
for far less noble causes than we're talking about here. Ever eat beef?
Chicken? Pork? If you're a true Vegan, then I'll shut up, but otherwise, you
should examine what's at the end of your fork before you pass judgment on
someone who's just trying to avoid having a bunch of demented, deformed
chicks!
Joy
"Suzzie" <suz...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:3BF188B5...@geocities.com...
Tviokh
I just have one question: Where did God decree that a "clean house and
a good cat" were his/her intentions?
I'd like to know, because I've never heard this.
Mice actually do make great pets, and can learn to do many tricks,
become very tame and snuggly, and are very smart.
I don't keep mice(anymore), however I do keep rats...which are also
intelligent, can do tricks, and are very tame and snuggly.
Please don't go around spouting "what God intended", because honey,
you do NOT speak for God and you do not know what God "intends" for a
household, mmmkay? :)
I also keep cats, birds, hamsters, and fish.
See? I can be condescending too. ;)
Tviokh
Tviokh
jones) wrote:
>Sweetie there is a big gap between a flea and a little bird that we are
>to love and care for .
According to your last argument, life is life..and all life counts and
isn't ours to destroy; even the little ones...and fleas would fall
under the category of "very little lives". :)
Tviokh
EH
siblings?
I can understand that some people have their own oppinion and we
should leave it by that. All I can say is this:
The birds don't know who is who which is true unless you give them a
different mate but letting siblings mate and the female is eventually
laying eggs and then dispose of a fertile egg is wrong. The chicks
inside have never been asked to be inside the eggs and then put into
the garbage. But I do have another guestion. Has anyone ever really
used the fake eggs?
Alex Clayton
Suzzie
a little bit of trivia.......
Joy Dickinson
place. But their tactics and some of their stances sometimes just make them
come off as ridiculous, and I think people write them off instead of seeing
through the hype to what they're really all about <sigh>.
By the way, I had an uncle who was a dairy farmer, and his cows got REALLY
grumpy if they weren't milked according to schedule!
"Suzzie" <suz...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:3BF2992E...@geocities.com...
Vicki Robinson
<Yep ... they're one of those groups whose hearts, I think, are in the right
<place. But their tactics and some of their stances sometimes just make them
<come off as ridiculous, and I think people write them off instead of seeing
<through the hype to what they're really all about <sigh>.
I think they're nuts. I'm quite kindly disposed to organizations that
oppose cruelty to animals and promote education and knowledgable and
responsible pet ownership, but the PETA folks believe that our
domesticated animals are man-made freaks. They believe that all
domesticated pet animals breeds should be permitted to die out, and
that only wild animals should exist.
Sorry, that just doesn't fly with me. Dogs, in particular, have a
long and honorable history as companions and fellow workers to humans.
To write that off as unworthy strikes me as almost obscene.
austral...@yahoo.com
> Hi George,
> George Wood wrote:
>
> > They are brother & sister! When bought we all thought they were both
> > female - just shows how wrong the experts even can be.
>
> > Now they are approaching 12 months old aand nearing sexual maturity
> > I'd like the groups opinions on the best way to stop them inbredding (
> > a very bad thing IMHO).
>
>
> > Is it possible to have the female sterilised or is it a dangerous
> > operation?
>
> The only case that I personally know of was of an amazon that was a
> chronic egg layer.
>
> > Your thoughts and comments please.
>
> you see them getting too 'friendly' just put them in separate cages, side
> by side to keep each other company.
>
> Aside from that, and if you decide to keep them housed together, do not
> provide a nest box, minimize stimuli that might get them 'in the mood' and
> toss any eggs that she might lay.
>
> Good luck with Magoo and Dotty... hopefully you won't have to deal with
> them trying to breed.
>
> Marco
Hi. my female cockatiel started to lay eggs when my male (who had flown away and was gone for almost a year and a half) was found by someone, and returned (I had up posters, went door to door and advertised on internet). When he returned, he and our female immediately continued their "friendship", even though they previously had not done mating rituals. We did not think the eggs would be fertile, as she had laid 3 eggs 2 yrs. before that, with no chicks. We do not have a nest box, nothing to encourage breeding. But, big Christmas gifts from God, beautiful babies hatched Dec. 20, 21 and 22nd. And the parents fed them and took excellent care of them. But, we don't have room for more and do not want more. She has laid 4 clutches since the babies were about 2 months old. I know this is too much, so when she goes into breeding mode I put in 6 fakes, and she usually lays just 1 more. I don't want her eggbound. My solution: there is a pet store around here (not a chain store) that has a woman there who breeds, raises & sells cockatiels. I spoke to her about it, and I give her all my eggs, and she has an incubator, and if she has a female with eggs about the same age, she puts my egg in with those eggs, the hen accepts them. I then replace those eggs with fakes. My female has totally accepted the fake as her own, and the male & her take turns sitting on them. The fake eggs are made of something that does not break or anything. They turn them,etc. no problem. This is a good solution I think, because I am not killing the beautiful babies and they hopefully will find a loving home. Her birds are very friendly, so I know they get lots of love and attention. This is something that some of you may want to consider doing, or if you have a breeder in your area to take them that would probably work too.