cont. Parrot worked to Death?
M.J.
news:fcf78n$rdn$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
> If Alex didn't like the life he had he had the option of just sinking his
> beak into Irene P.'s hand and refusing to play her games.
He bonded to Dr.Pepperberg, he loved her, and propably
could not hurt her even if he wanted to. She no doubt loved
him too but he was also a reaserch subject to her.
This film illustrates what I am talking about. Poor little
plucker Alex tells her six times that he's got enough but
she persists at him, forcing him, even with body contact,
as she nears a big tray towards his leg in order to elicit
a response from him.
No wonder he died pre-maturely.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6KvPN_Wt8I
M.J.
jmc
Poor guy. I do understand that Dr. Pepperberg probably loved Alex, but
in watching this, and some other videos, he seems to be clearly trying
to let her know he's had enough, and she keeps pushing him. His
plucking should have been a clear indication (at least, I'd think so,
I'm not a bird expert) that he was feeling stressed. I wonder if he
ever got a vacation?
jmc
jsaranac
>>
>>
>
> Poor guy. I do understand that Dr. Pepperberg probably loved Alex, but in
> watching this, and some other videos, he seems to be clearly trying to let
> her know he's had enough, and she keeps pushing him. His plucking should
> have been a clear indication (at least, I'd think so, I'm not a bird
> expert) that he was feeling stressed. I wonder if he ever got a vacation?
>
> jmc
Sure. They let him go back to Africa regularly for visits. Flew him first
class.
M.J.
news:op.tzk0x4q84buhsv@fx62...
>> M.J. <M.J.@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6KvPN_Wt8I
>
> that's appalling. He actually asks to go back but she refuses.
We bird owners know how stubborn these little creatures
can be, but still.
This video doesn't look good.
M.J.
cindi
> Poor guy. I do understand that Dr. Pepperberg probably loved Alex, but
> in watching this, and some other videos, he seems to be clearly trying
> to let her know he's had enough, and she keeps pushing him. His
> plucking should have been a clear indication (at least, I'd think so,
> I'm not a bird expert) that he was feeling stressed. I wonder if he
> ever got a vacation?
No kidding about the feathers! I almost got sick to my stomach seeing
that. I had an African Gray Parrot when I was young - found him what
I can only hope was a good home when I got married at age 23... He
plucked some of his own feathers when he first met my boyfriend and
got stressed about that - he also once ran to him and climbed up his
face and tried to bite off his nose (pretty smart parrot, I now know -
I should have taken that for a sign!) But that was just a couple
feathers and he stopped after he moved. Alex looked terrible. It was
so sad how he kept saying "go back, go back" and she just said no.
Man.
cindi
Peter Hucker
If a bird took the trouble to ask me to do something in English, I'd do it!
--
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M.J.
>On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:43:59 +0100, M.J. <M.J.@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <no...@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.tzk0x4q84buhsv@fx62...
>>>> M.J. <M.J.@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6KvPN_Wt8I
>>>
>>> that's appalling. He actually asks to go back but she refuses.
>>
>>
>> We bird owners know how stubborn these little creatures
>> can be, but still.
>>
>> This video doesn't look good.
>
>If a bird took the trouble to ask me to do something in English, I'd do it!
He might have really hated all the exercises and just
resigned to the "torture" after a while. Who knows!
I could ignore a request or two, but not continuous pleas
to go back. The short movie captures at least six such, it
looks like there were many more.
M.J.
JJ
news:1191363264....@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> No kidding about the feathers! I almost got sick to my stomach seeing
> that. I had an African Gray Parrot when I was young - found him what
> I can only hope was a good home when I got married at age 23... He
> plucked some of his own feathers when he first met my boyfriend and
> got stressed about that - he also once ran to him and climbed up his
> face and tried to bite off his nose (pretty smart parrot, I now know -
> I should have taken that for a sign!) But that was just a couple
> feathers and he stopped after he moved. Alex looked terrible. It was
> so sad how he kept saying "go back, go back" and she just said no.
> Man.
>
> cindi
Well, in other videos, Alex looked wonderful. I had a cockatiel, JB, for 18
years. There were times during a particularly vigorous molt that he too
looked just awful! If you saw him, you'd want to call the ASPCA! So, don't
think that one video with the poor feathers is an indication that he was
mistreated. Just another opinion. JJ
jmc
If you poke around on YouTube, you can find other videos where he's
well-plucked. I seem to remember reading that he'd developed this
problem, but I can't remember where.
I'm not sure "mistreated" is the right word, though. "Overworked" might
be more accurate. I'm sure he was treated well, but for whatever reason
it appears his overall wellbeing was overlooked - for money, fame? Who
knows...
jmc
Christopher C. Stacy
Isn't it the case that he only plucked when Dr. Pepperberg
had to leave him to go on extensive travel, and that when
he was working with her, he didn't pluck? So maybe the
problem was that he was not being "worked hard enough"?
As to, "Who knows..." (how Alex was cared for), a lot
of people do, and the information is readily available.
Alex was much more well cared for than most pets.
M.J.
"Christopher C. Stacy" <cst...@news.dtpq.com> wrote in message
news:yzl8x6h...@news.dtpq.com...
> Alex was much more well cared for than most pets.
With respect to physical health, diet, etc., perhaps yes.
With respect to mental health most likely NO!
Pet parrots do not go through an ardous 8-12 hour
day of mental gymnastics. That's why the average
lifespan of pet parrot african grey is 50-60 years.
Once Griffin and Wart, the other two parrots
Dr.Pepperberg is working with, expire we will
know more about the average lifespan of a
research parrot.
M.J.
M.J.
news:%OBNi.6816$6p6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
With respect to Alexes mental health, additional suspisions
exists. One of Dr.Pepperberg's research parrots has in the
past "gone crazy" so to speak, i.e. developed signs of mental
illness, and had to be retired from further study.
The October 2005 issue of Alex Foundation Newsletter
mentions that another research parrot, an African Grey
named Kyaaro, has developed an avian form of
Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity Disorder.
I doubt anyone veterinarian could make such a precise
diagnosis in a mammalian subject, not to mention an avian
patient, but the important fact here is that mental problems
have occured in Dr.Pepperberg's parrots in the past.
Below is a quote, and link to the Newsletter mentioning
the troubled bird:
Four parrots participated in Dr. Pepperberg's work. The birds-Kyaaro, Wart,
Alex and Griffin--had varying backgrounds of training, backgrounds that
would have telling results on the outcome of the study. The string-pulling
abilities of the birds were tested during different time periods with Kyaaro
and Alex being tested first in 1995. (Kyaaro, who developed an avian form of
Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity Disorder, has been retired and is now living
happily with Maggie Wright of the Grey Play Round Table and her two female
Greys.) Alex would be tested again when Griffin and Wart had their first
exposure to string-pulling in 2003.
http://thealexfoundation.blogspot.com/2005/08/whats-happening-in-research-great.html
M.J.
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
"M.J." <M.J.@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2xLNi.
444$sm...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "M.J." <M.J.@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%OBNi.6816$6p6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> "Christopher C. Stacy" <cst...@news.dtpq.com> wrote in message
>> news:yzl8x6h...@news.dtpq.com...
>>
>>> Alex was much more well cared for than most pets.
Ahh, like HOWER dog lover's dogs!
>> With respect to physical health, diet, etc., perhaps yes.
Well, maybe not so much <{}: ~ ( >
>> With respect to mental health most likely NO!
Certainly no less CONsideration than for their physical heelth;
annual revaccinations, daily and monthly toxic treatments for
internal and environmental paraiste CON-TROLL, testing for
DIS-EASES attributed to GENETICS, surgical sexual mutilation,
and of curse daily EXXXCESSIVE EXXXORCISE to EXXXPIATE hyperactive and
self mutilation behaviors <{}: ~ ) >
All the GOOD things HOWER pets need and want.
>> Pet parrots do not go through an ardous
>> 8-12 hour day of mental gymnastics. That's
>> why the average lifespan of pet parrot african
>> grey is 50-60 years.
Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of
behaviorally induced DIS-EASE in animals
CONFIRMING and EXTENDING the DATA on
PEOPLE. Behaviorally induced DIS-EASES tend
to fall into two groups;
(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE
HYSTERICAL SEIZURES and FORMS of
AGGRESSION as well as collective panic
and epilepsies;
(2) organic modifications, including functional difficulties
and lesions affecting gastro intestinal, cardio vascular,
respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin, urinary, and neuro
muscular systems.
It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE of
the standard six hour school day that I have been able
to detect in research is that Sawrey and Weisz quite
by accident found that six hours on and six hour off of
"EXECUTIVE BEHAVIOR" in monkeys was the ONLY
TIME STRUCTURE that INDUCED DEATH
PRODUCING ULCERS.
>> Once Griffin and Wart, the other two parrots
>> Dr.Pepperberg is working with, expire we will
>> know more about the average lifespan of a
>> research parrot.
We don't gotta wait for these research subjects to DIE
to realize they're being STRESSED TO DEATH. We
go ALL the CASE HISTORY DATA you could ever
want RIGHT HERE from HOWER fellHOWE dog
lover's DEAD an DEATHLY ILL dogs <{}: ~ ) >
> With respect to Alexes mental health, additional suspisions
> exists. One of Dr.Pepperberg's research parrots has in the
> past "gone crazy" so to speak, i.e. developed signs of mental
> illness, and had to be retired from further study.
Feather plucking is DEATHLY stress induced self mutilation.
> The October 2005 issue of Alex Foundation Newsletter
> mentions that another research parrot, an African Grey
> named Kyaaro, has developed an avian form of
> Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity Disorder.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
> I doubt anyone veterinarian could make such
> a precise diagnosis in a mammalian subject,
PROBABLY NOT on accHOWENTA they're
all TRAINED in the same IDIOCY <{}: ~ ( >
Professor Marshall Dermer, Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI:
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talentยญ,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ยญto
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
----------------
> not to mention an avian patient,
A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A GOAT Is A GOAT;
As A Ferret Is A Ferret;
As A Monkey Is A Monkey;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
> but the important fact here is that mental problems
> have occured in Dr.Pepperberg's parrots in the past.
Naaaah?
> Below is a quote, and link to the Newsletter
> mentioning the troubled bird:
>
> Four parrots participated in Dr. Pepperberg's work.
> The birds-Kyaaro, Wart, Alex and Griffin--had
> varying backgrounds of training, backgrounds that
> would have telling results on the outcome of the study.
> The string-pulling abilities of the birds were tested
> during different time periods with Kyaaro and Alex
> being tested first in 1995. (Kyaaro, who developed
> an avian form of Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity
> Disorder, has been retired and is now living happily
> with Maggie Wright of the Grey Play Round Table
> and her two female Greys.) Alex would be tested
> again when Griffin and Wart had their first
> exposure to string-pulling in 2003.
> http://thealexfoundation.blogspot.com/2005/08/whats-happening-in-research-great.html
> M.J.
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for
operant technique simply take the breath
away. Lovas et al (1966) report a standard
contingent reward/punishment procedure
developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys.
After twenty-six days the boys are reported
to have been learning new words with alacrity.
HOWEver, when REWARDS were moved to
a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it
manifests itself in the conditional reflex,
consists of a continual change of these three
fundamental processes -- excitation, inhibition
and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).
Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently
after preliminary contact with parents that NO
treatment of children was required, and almost
ALL cases SHOWE a remarkably shortened period
for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in one to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances
Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Abuse / fear / aggression / hyperactivity / shyness / suicide
attempts AIN'T a chemical imbalance or genetic problem,
they're SPIRITUAL problems,
passed on
from WON generatiHOWEN of abuser
to the next,
like the 100th monkey washin fruit in the stream;
After a while it's not just NORMAL, it's OBLIGATORY.
To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL
of your parental teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion,
Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change,
Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.
YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom
and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one
knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
--------------------------
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
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INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
***FREE***
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Peter Hucker
--
This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid?
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Three blondes are walking through the forest. They come upon some tracks.
The first blonde says "They're deer tracks."
The second blonde says "They're bear tracks."
The third blonde says "They're moose tracks."
Then a train hits them.
Steve
> PlEaSe WrItE NoRmAlLy.
He can't. He's been brain damaged through to much learning.
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:40:26 +0100, Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com <Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com> wrote:
>
> > HOWEDY M.J.,
>
> > "M.J." <M...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2xLNi.
> > 444$sm...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >> "M.J." <M...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>http://thealexfoundation.blogspot.com/2005/08/whats-happening-in-rese...
> ...
>
> read more ยป