When is euth. warranted?
The Puppy Wizard
Does that mean we shouldn't HANG dogs to CURE
them of IDIOPATHIC RAGE, as you PREFER?
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.
Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.
As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.
However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.
The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.
When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:r4uv105dgf101ortb...@4ax.com...
> On 3 Feb 2004 15:32:21 GMT, KWBrown <arfenar...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> []
> >> Since I could not diagnose the dog from afar, there was no
use for
> >> comment. But considering the breed (big tipoff here) and the
sudden
> >> idiopathic aggression, I would suspect strongly that SRS was
at work
> >> here. IF SRS was the case, I feel euth was justified.
> >
> >ESS are susceptible to unexplained aggression, but there is not
a
> >consensus on why or how it happens. Some people suspect a kind
of
> >epiliptic seizure, some think it's out of control dominance
aggression.
> >
> >Some in the breed are careful to distinguish "rage," which is
very rare,
> >and seems to involve the dog flipping into
totally-out-of-control
> >aggression and then not seeming to remember anything a few
minutes
> >later, from other aggressive behaviour. I don't think this is
what
> >happened to Teena - I think she was a dog with a hinky
personality from
> >the start who was sliding downhill from "manageable," to
"dangerous."
>
> In my experience, there is no difference between what some folks
call
> "Springer Rage," "rage," "Jekyll & Hyde Syndrome," etc., and
what
> others (mostly credentialed behaviorists) call idiopathic
aggression.
>
> It's all the same ILLNESS.
>
> But whatever "it" is, it can't be cured, it can't be modified,
it
> can't be treated, it's not caused by any kind of mishandling or
abuse,
> and it's not in any way a learned behavior (what can be learned
can be
> un-learned).
>
> It's almost certainly a genetic disorder of some kind, and it's
passed
> down in certain breeds, lines, colors, etc.
>
> >Teena's breeder has clearly seen this kind of behavioural slide
before:
> >and we may be able to say more fairly that there are unstable
dogs in
> >the breed (Teena being one) than to blame it all on dramatic
"Springer
> >Rage."
>
> Kate, there's really nothing dramatic about it. No more so than
CHD
> is dramatic. It's just a terrible ILLNESS. Period.
>
> Idiopathic aggression is probably a degenerative illness of the
brain
> (somewhat like CHD is degenerative in nature).
>
> And Teena's case came as no big surprise to your breeder, of
that I'm
> absolutely certain.
>
> And if she's still breeding from any of Teena's progenitors,
siblings,
> etc., she's part of the problem, not the solution.
>
> >I think we're looking at two issues here:
> >
> >1) The question asked by the OP: When is it warranted to put
a dog
> >down? Here, Michael claims "never," and Charlie accepts that
sometimes
> >a dog has to be euthanized, although he's mostly considering
physically
> >ill animals. My choice in this behaviour-related episode was
driven by
> >the fact that this dog was becoming more and more unreliable
and that
> >there were children whose faces are at the level of her teeth
in and out
> >of my home. I would not accept this animal as a trustworthy
member of
> >our househould any more and, furthermore, would not accept the
legal and
> >moral liability if she *ever* bit *anyone* *anytime* after
these
> >documented incidents.
>
> Would you normally care about what Doper Charlie or Mini Me
Mikey or
> Jerry Howe had to say about, say, the country's current monetary
> policy?
>
> No.
>
> Then neither should you care about what they have to say about
your
> decision to have Teena euthanized.
>
> >2) How did the dog become dangerously aggressive? The Peanut
Gallery
> >votes for handler incompetence,
>
> No, the Peanut Gallery did not vote like that.
>
> The only ones here who blamed this tragedy on "handler
incompetence"
> were the Usual Suspects, i.e., Jerry Howe, Michael Patton, and
Doper
> Charlie Wilkes, three of the Internet's most notorious morons,
trolls,
> spammers, and all-around incompetent goofballs.
>
> They've also been known to blame cancer, AIDS, tuberculosis,
malaria,
> Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease, bad breath,
> gingivitis, tooth decay, etc., on "handler incompetence," too.
>
> To these three wingnuts, there is no known human malady that
can't be
> blamed on "handler incompetence."
>
> In psychological circles it's called "projection," which is
closely
> associated with Borderline Personality Disorder.
>
> http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/borderprojection.htm
>
> Kate, it's like being concerned about what the Three Stooges
might
> have said about the wisdom of colonizing and terrafarming Mars.
>
> So, if you wouldn't normally worry much about what Moe might
have
> thought about, say, the principles of the Laffer Curve, be even
less
> concerned (waaaay less!) about what these three morons think
about
> your decision to safeguard *your* family.
>
> >Of course, anyone who believes that routinely grooming a coated
dog is,
> >in and of itself, an act of incompetent handling, needs some
time in a
> >shelter cleaning up a dog whose owner didn't think mats were
such a big
> >deal.
>
> No, Kate, what they really need most (yes, all three of them) is
some
> quality time in a state-run mental hospital somewhere
(Mississippi's
> quickly comes to mind), with some very large men wearing white
coats
> and carrying trays of little plastic cups filled with pills.
>
> >In the end, I have the work of two vets, a behaviourist, a
trainer, and
> >the dog's own breeder supporting the diagnosis of escalating
aggression,
> >and am comfortable with my decision, however sad.
>
> Good for you!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
>
> Oklahoma U Crushes A Prof's Free Speech!
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12003
>
> Professor Bainbridge Daniel Drezner
> http://www.professorbainbridge.com/
http://www.danieldrezner.com/blog/
> Glenn Reynolds - InstaPundit Steven Den Beste
> http://www.instapundit.com/
http://www.denbeste.nu/
> SpinSanity Andrew Sullivan
> http://www.spinsanity.org/
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/
> Don Luskin Rightwing News
> http://www.poorandstupid.com/chronicle.asp
http://www.rightwingnews.com/
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:kjc020drqj1qiaie4...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:06:11 -0500, "sionnach"
> <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> Same thing when a dog growls if you take away its toy.
> >> Some people (many people) set the situation up repeatedly
> >> to "teach" the dog that they are the master and have the
> >> "right" to take the toy anytime they want. And it always
> >> makes things worse!
> >
> > Not at all true. It depends on how you handle doing it
> > repeatedly- whether you approach it as "I'm going to
> > teach this dog who's boss!" or in a calm, matter of fact
way.
>
> According to the people at the Academy of Canine Behavior in
> Bothell, WA, this is always a mistake and it is one of the
> main reasons people find it necessary to bring their dogs in
> for remedial work. But maybe they lied to me just for the
> hell of it, eh?
> >
> >>
> >> If, on the other hand, the handler defers, backs off, and
> >> avoids repeating the trigger situation, the behavior will
> >> often de-escalate and become less frequent/severe.
> >
> > Don't know what you're basing this on, but this is also
> > not at all true.
.
> > Backing off completely, "deferring" and "avoiding the
> > trigger" is highly likely to *increase* the possessive
> > /dominant behaviour, and get someone bitten.
Sooo....
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> Bullshit. I have never heard that from any genuinely
> knowledgable source.
HOWER pal sinofabitch sez shock and pronged
spiked pinched choke collars DON'T HURT.
Perhaps that's HOWE COME she had to attack
the lab puppy she was walkin.
> As for my own sources, in this thread, I'm paraphrasing
> material I have gotten from dog-training books, videos,
> etc., most of which are wholly consistent in terms of the
> basic approach they line out. None of my comments here
> represent my original thinking on the subject.
>
> So what's your source of information, Spinach? Janet Boss
> and your other cohorts in this newsgroup? I read about one
> problem after another in this group and damn few success
> stories. Dogs who won't behave around cats unless
> physically restrained. Dogs who bite and become aggressive
> for no apparent reason. Dogs who piss in the house and
> won't settle down at night. Dogs who won't get along with
> other dogs in the household. Dogs who supposedly try to
> manipulate or "dominate" their owners. The list goes on.
>
> Meanwhile I have none of these problems, and over the past
> couple of years I have cared for 20 or more dogs at various
> times, because I have become very interested in dogs. So
> how come my approach always seems to work? Why am I able to
> get dogs to stop bickering? Why am I able to get nervous
> dogs to settle down? Why don't the chronic biters bite me
> when I'm taking care of them? Are the dogs I encounter so
> different from the ones owned by people who post in this
> group? I don't think so. I think the reason for my modest
> success is simple -- I have taken the time to study the
> basic elements of proper dog-handling and apply them.
>
> Charlie
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in
message
news:4d94effc.03053...@posting.google.com...
>
> I read through his manual and tried the techniques on my
> puppy, who looked like growing up to be a mean-assed dog
> like her daddy. Guess what? It worked. More forceful
> methods might have allowed me to control her, but I don't
> think I'd have the exquisitely gentle and well-behaved dog I
> do now.
>
> Charlie
--------------------
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in
message news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and
> "make the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once
> or twice, just by taking a stern tone of voice, and the
> results were terrible. The pup got scared and just wanted
> to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around
> great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make
> yourself the center of your puppy's world -- his personal
> Lord Jesus. Never give him a reason to fear you or think
> you're angry. Love the heck out of him, and you'll end up
> with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I
> want her to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100
> percent, and nothing is more important in her world than her
> relationship with me. http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy
> Charlie
On 18 Feb 2003 01:02:05 -0800, jav...@yahoo.com (Lynn K.)
wrote:
>
>Hell, if Jerry Howe had simply pointed to his
>training manual occasionally instead of trying
>to bludgeon people with his "method", I might
>have given it a 3rd read to try to find something
>I could use in there. Maybe not.
>
>Lynn K.
I came here almost two years ago with an aggressive female pup
from hard-core "protection" stock. The message I got from
nearly everyone was that I need to show my dog who is boss,
draw lines in the sand, absolutely refuse to tolerate this and
that.
Jerry has a different approach, and he delivered some
extremely helpful insights. Now, my dog is not quite two
years old, and I could probably put her in some kind of
obedience competition against a Fred Hassan dog even though
I've had no experience or training whatsoever except Jerry's
manual and some personal tips from him that were well worth
following. My Holly is an exceedingly well-behaved pet who
gets along well with everyone. And I believe Jerry Howe is
the best dog resource on the Internet, bar none.
Charlie
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:kjc020drqj1qiaie4...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:06:11 -0500, "sionnach"
> <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> >> Same thing when a dog growls if you take away its toy.
> >> Some people (many people) set the situation up repeatedly
> >> to "teach" the dog that they are the master and have the
> >> "right" to take the toy anytime they want. And it always
> >> makes things worse!
> >
> > Not at all true. It depends on how you handle doing it
> > repeatedly-
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual." The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Here's Disciple Paulie:
Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits End
Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That
Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built
On Trust And Understanding."
Disciple Paulie Writes:
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and
say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the
request and I bet you'll find your dog thinking
then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule
applies to every aspect of the relationship with
your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.
Paul.
========================
Paul B <pan...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c63...@clear.net.nz...
>> > "James Roberts" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:3C637444...@privacy.net...
>
> > I have downloaded and have read Jerry's Wit's End
> > document. Ignoring what you think of his participation,
> > what is your assessment of the merits of his
> > techniques?
Hello James,
I have used his recommended techniques and ideas
with great success, and over the period I've used these
methods the more I've become to understand and appreciate how
his methods work and how effective they can be if
carried out correctly.
His manual isn't conventional and as such gets
critisized and misunderstood. The basic concept
is to allow the dog to choose whatever behaviour
it wants for any situation but to distract (and
immediately praise ) it from behaviours we deem
undesirable, because of the correctly timed
distractions repeated usually about 4 times (in
each location) the dog decides of it own accord
that this behaviour is undesriable and therefore
pursues something else, if that behaviour is also
inappropriate to us then we carry on distracting,
very soon the dog finds a behaviour that is mutually
acceptable.
The benefits of this type of approach are numerous,
Firstly we aren't challenging the dog so there is no
conflict so the dog does't develop any possible negativity
to us, the dog decides of it own free will that a behaviour
is unsatisfying so chooses to cease it (in other words
even if we are gone the dog won't have any desire to
pursue that behaviour i.e. bin raiding etc).
I would recommend his manual.
Paul
=========================
From: Paul B (pan...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Can pack leader influence rank?
Date: 2002-02-25 00:51:48 PST
I use sound to distract the dog and praise it immediately.
The reason for the immediate praise is that as soon as
the dog is distracted it's no longer thinking of the
inappropriate behaviour so the praise reinforces the
"not doing" the unwanted behaviour.
I use various sound sources, a soda can with stones
in it, car keys, Click my fingers, etc. Varying the direction
of the sound each time is important too, otherwise the
dog may begin to anticipate the sound and it will lose
it's effect, if the noise direction is random the dog won't
get too familiar with it and it will remain an effective
distraction.
Remember too that we aren't trying to scare the bejesus
outta the dog, simply breaking it's train of thought while
it's thinking of the unwanted behaviour.
Sometimes you won't even see a reaction but the dog
will have been distracted fleetingly. (Recently one of
my dogs started habitually licking my feet while I was
watching TV, I clicked my fingers on her left side and
told her "good girl" even though she only paused her
licking briefly, next I clicked over her right side and
praised, by about the 4th repeat she suddenly stopped,
I repeated this over a few nights and now she doesn't
lick any more, on the few occasions she absent mindedly
licks now all I do is click and praise and she immediately
stops).
Timing is important too, learn to anticipate when the
dog is thinking about doing the "dirty deed" and distract
and praise then, with any luck the dog will try again almost
immediately so distract and praise again, if the timing is
correct after about the 4th rep the dog will stop.
I could go on but this post is long enough already,
remember too that the dog isn't being a "bad dog",
it's behaviour is simply inappropriate for the circumstances.
Happy training, :-)
Paul
==========================
Subject: Re: Leadership and hieracy. And Tit For Tat...
Date: 2003-02-26 18:24:01 PST
HOWEDY Disciple Paulie,
Paul B wrote:
> I was having a discussion the other day about
> leadership and hierarchy in the home environment.
Right... dog pack, Scout Pack, family pack, military
platoon, it's all the same same same same...
> I'm a firm believer that setting the hierarchy is very
> important in order to be able to train a dog and also
> to solve behaviour problems, anxieties etc.
Right. That's HOWE COME we don't have disobedience
or fighting in the ranks.
> I think that how we behave when the dog is about
> whether we are addressing the dog or not contributes
> to our dogs view of us.
Right. That's HOWE COME the military doesn't
permit fraternization between officers and enlisted
personnel. That's HOWE COME companies have
executive toilets and cafeterias and the military has
enlisted and officers and NCO'S clubs, and families
have children's play rooms, adult bedrooms, and
common areas where neither sort have priority over
the HOWES rules.
> We were discussing how a persons personality
> affects the way the dog views and respects them.
Right. That's HOWE COME food bribes USURP the
handler's authority. The dog is working for a tangible
item, not respect for the pack rules.
Bribes teach GREED, not comaraderie.
> I argued that it's no use trying to impress the dog
> with your leadership abilities if in other areas you
> don't show the same.
Right. Same same as the reasons behind restricting
fraternization.
Makes sense in business too. The rules are about
the same same same same for your dogs, kids,
spouses, employee's and employers. We must
never use force fear confrontation, or HOWER
AUTHORITY to enforce HOWER WILL.
That's HOWE COME we train the come command
as a conditioned reflex, there's no choice in the matter,
it's strictly reflex. Any command can be trained as a
CR, but we don't want to do that because it would
inhibit the dog's THINKING and ability and desire to
RATIONALIZE, and SOLVE PROBLEMS and use
his senses to do his job to the best of his ability.
That's not to say we don't be PALS, just that there's a
certain modicum of respect for WON another that must
always be followed to insure strict discipline and proper
authority.
THAT'S what makes for RESPECT.
IOW, we DON'T WANT TOTAL CONTROL based
solely on REFLEX, because we want the dog to
WILLINGLY WANT TO DO AS WE ASK, even if
it's NOT EXXXACTLY HOWE WE ULTIMATELY
WANT HIM TO BEHAVE.
We're walking a middle line between total unthinking
response, and total COOPERATIVE EFFORT.
When cooperation fails, we reinstill HOWER authority
by pulling rank, IOW, using the come command as
leverage to subordinate the dog, and then return him
to the heel or PARTNERSHIP position, where he can
start off again as a partner, not a subordinate.
So we're DELEGATING AUTHORITY, in a sense,
and we intervene with a come command when the
dog exceeds his bounds or fails to achieve, and
start over again till the behaviors are LEARNED
PUPPERLY and the dog is a WILLING WORKER.
Then the dog will NEVER question HOWER requests,
cause to do otherWIZE would be contraWIZE, to borrow
a term from HOWER professor SCRUFF SHAKE.
> For instance lets say you do exercises etc with the
> dog to set the hierarchy and act all in control in front
> it but are disorganized, easily flustered, indecisive,
> intimidated by others, etc in other aspects of your life.
That would likely make the dog overly protective...
like if some mugger was disturbing your XYL... you'd
automatically THUMP him. HOWEver, if the XYL had
TOTAL CONTROL and showed the mugger up to be
a CHUMP, you'd stand there laughin your @$$ of at them
and give her a hug when she's finished dispatching IT.
> My view is the dog is always observing you
Every last detail. My dogs know if I take off my
reading glasses and leave my desk, I'm fixin to
be away for a few minutes and they'll follow. If I
step away from my desk wearing my glasses,
I'm just goin to a file to find somethin and return
to work, so they remain where they are cause
they know I'm not goin nowhere noHOWE.
> and will see you for what you really are -
Right. Dogs are not so EZ to FOOL as PEOPLE are.
> not a worthy leader in this example despite your
> attempts to convince the dog otherwise when
> your are one to one.
Right. The Puppy Wizzzard tries to find the middle
line, so the dog will be concerned about what's goin
on, yet not overly concerned and still confident of
their position and regard for their leadership.
It's a delicate balance between being totally in control,
and totally out of control. That's HOWE COME dogs
protect HOWErselves.
A STRONG, IRON WILLED LEADER NEEDS NO PROTECTION. An
INTELLIGENT, FRAGILE, leader
NEEDS CONSTANT PROTECTION... so, we WANT
the dog to THINK we're AFRAID of things that go BUMP
in the nite.
We WANT HOWER dogs to believe we're delicate,
so they won't rougHOWES us.
> My observations seem to confirm this too,
INDEEDY.
> watching people with their dogs at parks etc, the
> more confident people seem to have better control
> of their dogs and better> behaved dogs than
> apparently less confident people.
Same same for military and businesses and family
and scouting...
That's HOWE COME The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
get BETTER CONTROL when their dogs are OFF LEAD,
than when they're restricted on lead.
The dog senses the TRUST and CONFIDENCE
the handler has placed on them to DO as they're
REQUESTED, despite that there's no apparent
means of CORRECTING MISTAKES. That makes
the dog FEEL GOOD about working and paying
attention and DOIN as he's ASKED.
HOWEVER, WONce the dog is ORDERED to DO
something, the trust and confidence are eroded and
the dog is MOORE likely to challenge HOWER authority
and will UNDOUBTEDLY fail to do the command, cause
he's gonna challenge your authority if he feels put upon,
and will be unwilling to comply, forcing the handler to
take action to regain control and ENFORCE HIS WILL.
WONce we get into a battle of the wills, the dog wins
in EVERY situation where we cannot force control.
> Not absolutely but just generally.
Well, we're talking about VERY SUBTLE effects
having BIG influences on ALL HOWER RELATIONSHIPS.
Like the chain of command in the military must never
be broken, we can establish similar rules for HOWER
behavior which will be followed by everyWON in the
PACK, be it family, dog, scouts, business, or military
command.
> If I'm correct then is it possible our dogs obedience
> and behaviors etc are reflecting our self confidences?
ABSOLUTELY. Hesitating while giving commands,
waiting for the last command to be followed etc,
detract from the dog's sense of confidence in us,
and shows him we're UNCERTAIN as to HIS
willingness to FOLLOW COMMANDS, just as it
makes kids or wives or employees and employers
say NO!
> Paul
WONCE we learn HOWE to ESTABLISH the proper
degree of CONTROL,
HOWER charges will follow suite because it's the
MOST NATURAL THING TO DO. We NEVER
QUESTION pupper authority. HOWEver, if we go
over or under, we have FIGHTING in the ranks,
MUTINY, and DESERTION.
NOW there's only TWO questions remaining: HOWE
do we instill pupper discipline without repression to
elicit 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL just
like a military unit with HOWER dogs, kids, spouses,
employee's, employer's, and governments?
AND HOWE COME The Puppy Wizzzard NEVER
FOLLOWED HIS OWN RULES HERE ON HOWER
FORUM, KNOWING FULL WELL, TO DO OTHERWIZE
WILL CERTAINLY CAUSE DISSENT, FIGHTING, HATRED, ANGER, EVEN
DEATH?
The First question is ANSWERED IN FULL in your
FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
The SECOND question is answered in reading
HOWER forum... FIGGER IT OUT. The Puppy
Wizzzard came here to IDENTIFY, EXXXPOSE,
DISCREDIT, and DESTROY the lying dog abusing
Punk Thug Cowards we got here who INTENTIONALLY
HURT DOGS to ENFORCE THEIR WILL AND WILL
GLADLY KILL A BAD DOG, TO BE FAIR.
Kinda tit for tat, Disciple Paulie... It's a HARD LESSON,
for SHORE, but a NECESSARY WON, given the state
of the art here abouts.
Your Puppy Wizzzard. <}TPW : ~ { >
Here's Disciple Paulie's reply to roo (alikat) when she
LIED and said The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual is DANGERHOWES
and INEFFECTIVE:
"Paul B" <pan...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c2a...@clear.net.nz...
> Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at
> all, people who find the manual useful are those that
> don't need to control a dog to satisfy their own ego
> but simply want a well behaved dog that is easy to
> live with.
>
> I would suggest the people who follow the
> advice in his manual are people who have already
> tried other inefficient methods and are fed up with
> the poor results.
>
> The more I think about the methods he suggests the
> more sense it makes, the biggest problem is people
> believe they have to be in control of the dog, tell it
> whats right and wrong, dogs don't understand
> our values and I don't believe they are capable of
> understanding them either, so to train them we use
> methods they understand.
>
> That means abstract training, doing sometimes what
> appears to > almost be the opposite of what makes
> sense to us.
>
> If you are purely result orientated then you will not
> find Jerry's manual much use, if you love your dogs
> and love to work WITH them then his manual is
> your dream come true. Distraction and praise works
> with any dog, when you sit back and really think about
> it, it's very obvious why.
>
> When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
> particular behaviour then that behaviour very quickly
> becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no longer have any
> interest in pursuing it, whether we are about or not,
> thats the key to stopping garbage can raids and food
> stealing etc etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting it
> in an appropriate manner that it no longer wishes to
> pursue that behaviour.
>
> Better than hiding the garbage can eh?
>
> Paul
=======================
Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?
Paul B (NOSPAMpa...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Good dogs!!! bad dogs.??
Date: 2000/10/21
Something occurred this morning that made me think how
we treat our dogs and what expectations we have of them.
Because it was a Saturday we slept in and the dogs
eventually jumped up on the bed on my wife's side. After
a brief greeting she very abruptly demanded they get down,
"OFF THE BED" she insisted, Sam looked at her perplexed,
so she repeated the "order", so Sam tried to lick her face,
"GET OFF" she said abruptly.
Sam got down but was unsure what he had done wrong. After
a bit they both came over and jumped up on my side, I patted
them etc and eventually asked them to get down, "off the bed,
good dogs" and they hopped off immediately with no prob's.
Eileen asked me why they obey me and not her so easily.
I told her they got down for me because I asked them to,
they know the command "off the bed" or "off anything" so
there is no need to demand it of them, ask them and they
will comply, demand it and they get confused because
they think you are annoyed with them but they don't know
why so they try to "make amends" which is why Sam licked her.
I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all, all
dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they are
good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.
Telling Sam he's a good dog after he sit's apart from been too
late is also a gamble because if he doesn't sit then there's
no positive interaction.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll find your
dog thinking then responding everytime.
Paul
=======================
From: Paul B (NOSPAM...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to
every aspect of the relationship with your dog.
Paul.
========================
"Paul B" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3edc...@clear.net.nz...
>
> "shaper" <nom...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3edb...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> > I have been reading these forums for a few weeks now,
> > and am getting really confused!!
> > but is there actually anyone who has used the methods in
> > this manual with any success ?
100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL, NEARLY INSTANTLY, BY NEARLY
EVERY FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Student.
It's the GENTLEST, FASTEST, MOST EFFECTIVE,
NON FORCE, NON CONFRONTATIONAL, NON BRIBE, SCIENTIFIC and
PSYCHOLOGICAL technique in the
Whole Wild World, BAR NONE.
> > I am wanting to get a rhodesian ridgeback soon
> > and really would like to know the best and most
> > effective way of training without using food
> > treats or violence (i do agree with what the guy
> > says about food treats and violence)
> > Thanks for any intelligent replies
>
> I have tried his methods and found them extremely
> effective.There are several areas in particular I
> found useful.
>
> He teaches you and the dog to pay attention to
> each other all the time. He teaches you to have
> such good communication with your dog you
> don't need leash corrections or shock collars or
> even food, you can get the dogs attention any
> time you like by calling it or with a snap of your
> fingers.
>
> When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk
> close to me I ended up going to the parks and
> teaching them without a lead at all, that ensured
> I had to use good communication and was unable
> to be tempted to use the lead to correct them.
>
> Another part of the training I agree with is not using
> the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
> or react with it in such a way that you become involved
> in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach
> often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when
> you are about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding,
> counter surfing etc).
>
> Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
> friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
> pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
> is included in this), teach it to recall reliably,
> then to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).
>
> Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
> If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
> are prepared to work with it you can get great results.
>
> Paul
===============================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Fitz [mailto:donf...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 11:53 a.m.
> To: Ama...@DCFWatch.com; paulb...@clear.net.nz
> Subject: Jerry Howe
>
> Hi,
>
> Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering
> what you have to say of his training methods.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bousie" <paulb...@clear.net.nz>
To: "'Don Fitz'" <donf...@hotmail.com>;
<Ama...@DCFWatch.com> Cc: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe
> If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must
> already have a good idea about what I think.
>
> His methods are the best I have come across.
>
> They aren't a quick fix but an entire training concept so
> if you aren't in for the long haul then don't bother. If
> you go his way then you have to forget all the other
> gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe
> in what you are doing, then and only then will you get
> the results.
>
> You can't combine his methods with other training
> methods, not until you understand what you are
> trying to achieve, and even then I have only ever
> combined about 2 other trainers ideas and even
> then just a snip of what they suggest which works
> in parallel with the Wits End concept.
>
> His methods make you as the trainer completely
> responsible for your actions, his methods make
> you think and work out your own solutions for
> any given situation, the default (the recall) is
> always there to get things under control again.
> His ideas and concepts teach you to work with
> the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to
> work together which is surely the best way to be.
> His methods don't use force or intimidation but
> they do totally emphasize the absolute importance
> of pack (family pack) structure, without that you
> can achieve almost nothing.
>
> If you are wondering how a dog can be trained
> without any negativity the answer lies in the recall,
> anytime your dog doesn't follow through with a
> request you call him / her to you, since the recall
> is the first thing taught and it is taught in such a
> way it becomes a reflex the dog always returns
> to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and
> we release it by asking for a "heel" which is an
> "equal" position.
>
> His methods are very good, his understanding of
> dogs is excellent, I recommend his methods.
>
> Paul Bousie
==============================
"Linda" <llindal...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.03020...@posting.google.com...
I have posted about my dog Sunshine before who was aggressive
to all people and dogs until I found and used
the Wits End Training methods.
He is now great--can go any where and he is fine with people
and dog even when they get in his face on a flexi lead! He
still had problem with stress that was making him scratch him
self raw in places--he nose has had a sore for the last month.
We started using the Doggy Do Right and his nose
was almost healed when the machine went off. The
next day he was scratching and opened the sore on
his nose again.
Twelve hours after I turned it back on he quit scratching
and his nose is healing again. The machine does work.
I have two barking dogs behind me that have reduced
their barking a lot. In fact when we were out walking
one them came over to visit and the owner did not notice
he was gone since he did not bark at us as he usually did.
The Wits End Training Method works, the problems
I have had are the result I having trouble breaking my
old patterns.
My dog got it fast but kept getting confused when I had
trouble getting the commands together. I always thought I
used praise but I really did not until I started using the
Wits End Method of sound and praise. In the past it took a lot
of treats to get him to do something--now I have been able to
teach him several things like pull the laundry basket with
just praise. He really likes it better I think and does not
seem to miss the treats for jobs.
If you have problem with your dog try the Wits End Method--it
is free and it works and it improves your relationship.
So much of dog training is force and using pain to get a dog
to do something that a method that works and does not rely on
pain, force, or "corrections" is wonderful for both owner and
dog. Don't think something that is free can not be good
because I have spent more hours and more thousands of dollars
than I though possible in the three years with Sunshine and
nothing helped until I found the Wits End Method of sound and
praise.
==================================
--- Original Message -----
From: Paul Bousie
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:00 AM
Subject: Geday.
Hey J,
I see nothings changed on the NG. Still the same
old crappy advice and misunderstanding of the
only advice worth reading.
The problem with your method J is that I can't
answer the questions on the NG no more, people
are after a quick fix, they don't want to understand
that dog training requires a disiplined method, I'm
now really understanding that they are all result
orientated, they want the dog to sit, to down, to
stay, to come, to stop it's "bad" behaviours, they
want to stamp out each anxiety one at a time not
realising they create a new one as they deal with
the last.
I feel sorry for them, they don't understand, they
don't even realise the errors of thier ways and
they arn't self thinkers, they follow the majority,
after all if everyone says thats the way then it
must be. I've finally realised people don't want
to learn to train dogs they want a trained dog,
they want a little puppet that sits and stays and
downs and does all the nice doggy stuff or so
they think, then when the dog acts like a dog
they come squealing to the NG asking how to
stop the dog being a dog.
I have a nice little visulisation of a dogs mind
that I think demonstrates the way we approach
dog training. Imagine lots of little circles all in a
cluster, each one representing a dog anxiety or
behaviour ( desied or not), each circle represents
something about the dog, all of them create what
a dog is.
The traditional way to train a dog is to stamp out
the "bad" circles, try to eliminate as many as you
can, problem is each one you stamp out another
takes it's place (anxiety circles can't be destroyed
they just change), obviously it's a futile exercise,
but thats the traditional way.
Now imagine a big circle that completely surrounds
all the small circles, this big circle is the whole dog,
that's what we get hold of with all the little circles
inside, we don't see the little circles we see the BIG
circle the macro as you put it and use that to train.
I laugh now when I see posts critisising you, they
are critising something they don't even understand
or even have the capacity to understand.
See ya,
Paul
=====================
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<gstu101fhhsc10jnn...@4ax.com>...
>
> > I don't object to euthenasia, and I don't think I'm
> > the right person to define when it is/isn't appropriate.
Doesn't matter if disciple charlie is the RIGHT person
or NOT, he's addressing LIARS and DOG ABUSERS
and INCURABLE MENTAL PATIENTS... so the discussion
is invalid to begin with.
> Thanks for a serious response.
You're a liar and a dog abuser and a mental case,
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> I think we all know our personal stances on when
> we feel euthanasia is warranted.
You HURT dog till you're too AFRAID of HURTIN
them someMOORE. THEN you MURDER them.
"If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With
You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not
Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What
You Do Not Know You Will Fear.
What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George,
adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'End Dog Training
Method Manual.
> Mikey was certainly clear when he said he would
> never kill a dog for the safety of anyone.
LikeWIZE, The Puppy Wizard, in over forty years
of specializing in temperament and behavoir problems
in mostly giant breed dogs, has NEVER MURDERED
a dog cause IT couldn't be ABUSED INTO SUBMISSION.
> For those of us that feel differently,
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
> we're going to have different lines where we feel
> it is necessary.
Here's lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either
They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs
Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The
Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of
HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
> It's legitimate to question each other about where
> we draw those lines,
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp Tap
Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If
He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over
The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot
With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned
On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said
"GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sionnach.
> but it's one of those things we really can't know
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author: "Courteous
Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently as
possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk away.
The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore him
and continue your normal behavior." --Mike Dufort author
of the zero selling book "Courteous Canines"
> without actually knowing the dog in question.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
get the meaningful experience that they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K. ---------------------------------
> Lynn K.
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed every
adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who had to
make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K. --------------------------------------
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of beautiful
labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe you'd be singing a
different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and put their
bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer for the trash
company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
END lyingfrosty dahl
If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.
These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).
Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY
HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"
And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of
JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS
WITHOUT HURTING THEM."
And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE
JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."
You can get all the information you need to
PUPPERLY handle and train your dog using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:
"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).
I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).
I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).
I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."
RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."
Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
The Puppy Wizard
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:cgh020h71gpn71i4k...@4ax.com...
> On 3 Feb 2004 16:56:34 -0800, jav...@yahoo.com (Lynn K.) wrote:
>
> >Mikey was certainly clear when he said he would
> > never kill a dog for the safety of anyone.
LikeWIZE, The Puppy Wizard. We don't MURDER
dogs cause we TRAIN them NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> Let me know if Mikey ever grows up,
Like you, tommy?
> maybe has a couple of precious toddlers
> running around the house, or maybe has
> his frail grandmother living with him (it's
> more likely that he'll be living with her, of
> course, given Mikey's current "success" story),
> and then I'll send him a couple of dogs, including
> a certain Akita that I know.
Dogs you've ABUSED, tommy?
> Yup. FREE ones.
The Puppy Wizard offered tara o. aka tee's
DEAD DOG Summer a permenante FREE
SAFE HOWES, forever. She MURDERED
her DEAD DOG, INSTEAD, and PAID FOR IT!
> On the house.
You're a liar and a dog abuser and a homophobe.
You can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE, tommy.
> As physically sound and healthy as
> any dogs he'll ever come across, too.
Cause they've had plenty of hard livin.
> And then let's hear what he says.
A dog is a dog, lyingdogDUMMY. All you
gotta do is STOP HURTIN THEM and
they'll do ANY THING YOU ASK.
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Here's Valerie's story:
6/3/02, Three days after starting WEDTM...
"Seeing Spots (Val)" <Holm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:8aSK8.20147$LC3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without physical
> contact and she does seem to listen better than when
> I would praise with it. I agree that it is a distraction.
> Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from her since
> I started the Witts End.
------------
Sellin Your Immortal Soul To The Puppy Wizzzard:
"A Contract Signed In Werewoolf And Elf Blood"
From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holm...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST
HEY!!!
There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL
Dalmatian who is a real sweet dog with
a few issues that I am working to resolve
after adopting her from a shelter
she spent 2 years in.
All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.
There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training. The deal is you have to separate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.
Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out
of the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the
guy is pretty clever, you're letting him get
under your skin. It makes for a very amusing
game I think. I'm sure he would agree,
or he wouldn't be playing everyday.
He also wouldn't be playing if he
didn't believe that his method of
training weren't valid.
Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes,
but so far, using the Witts End, I have
gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to
look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.
I have changed her from an aggressive
dog to one who is willing to please her
owner, willing to listen, willing to assume
her role in the pack.
The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking
P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing into me, ok?
===============
Friday, 5/31/02:
HOWEDY Valerie,
"Valerie M. Holmes" <Holm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
message news:vVAJ8.14474$LC3.1002840@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I recently adopted a female, spayed
> 3 1/2 yr old dalmatian from a no-kill shelter.
Nice goin.
> She spent 2 years in the shelter and
> naturally she has some socialization
> issues to overcome.
Naaah not naturally, anyHOWE. Kenneling
for a long time shouldn't have problems
associated with it if the facility was reasonable,
and if they're not killin dogs they couldn't be
as cruel as our dog lovers like janet boss, john
richardson, and mikey ball, who gladly help
dogs DIE.
> My problem is I am not quite sure HOW
> to tackle these issues.
Don't worry about it! I got all the answers
and none of the calories. All ya got to do is
agree to do anything Jerry sez and you get
the aluminum funnel hat, membership card,
secret password, secret decoder ring, secret
fan club privilidges, secret FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual, secret FREE
Wits' End Dog Training Method member's
benefits, and secret Contract Signed In
Werewoolf And Elf Blood with a lifetime
GUARANTEE, NEVER to have a dog
behavior problem again and your dog will
ALWAYS WANT to do as you ask.
IMPOSSIBLE? It gets EVEN BETTER!
Stick around...
> 1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs,
Ooops! WE got a TOUGH problem here.
I hope you're fit, dog training is a physical
skill not easily learned through books, the
written word just can't SHOW you the precise
moves necessary for commanding a dog.
Every dog is an individual, and we got to
SEE the behaviors to even GUESS what's
going on with your dog. THEN we got to
formulate a training program based on the
individual dog's requirements for physical
and emotional PRESSURE and learn the
fine art of attrition and have the expertise
to hurt your dog PRECICELY, and ONLY
WHEN NECESSARY.
But FIRST, a trip to the vet is in order.
Any sudden changes in behavior needs
to be examined by the veterinarian and
he'll be able to give you a referral to such
an expert who knows HOWE and when to
HURT your dog properly to make it friendly
or advise you when to KILL IT, TO BE FAIR.
So, tomorrow morning call your vet and make
an appointment in 15 days to put your dog to sleep.
Ask him HOWE MUCH.
Hang up the phone and SPEAK TO NO ONE!!!
SAY NOTHING TILL you put that money into
an envelope with your dog's name PRINTED
on it in UPPER CASE thingys.
MAKE SURE you GO DIRECTLY TO THE
BANK, SPEAK NOTHING!, and withdraw
ONLY NEW BILLS!
If you cannot obtain NEW currency KEEP
GOIN! We need CLEAN MONEY for this
SACRIFICE.
When you accept this money DO NOT TOUCH!
HAVE THE TELLER PUT THE BILLS INTO THE
ENVELOPE AND SEAL IT.
ASK HER TO PRINT YOUR DOG'S NAME ON THE BACK,
Ooops! DON'T! That's just an expression.
Hand the teller a note. DON'T SPEAK!
NOT THE FRONT. THE BACK OF THE SACRIFICIAL
ENVELOPE IN UPPER CASE THINGY'S.
Now you can speak, but don't, nobody will
believe you. Trust me. Take the envelope
to your HOWES and put it inside your
pillow case and FORGET ABOUT IT.
Don't need that for two weeks yet.
> even dogs that have shown that they
> are willing to be submissive.
Oooops? What's that mean? I don't understand
doggietalkie. You mean she attacks other dogs,
boys, girls, puppys, all dogs?
Good. That tells me we got consistency going
for us, to fix it.
When does she get an opportunity to have
a dog cower?
> Upon sight of a dog, she lunges and snarls.
O.K., that's GOOD! That tells me we can
probably break the lunging in a few minutes
of work. Maybe five, but we'll need to repeat
it a few times to generalize the idea. And
we'll need to do a little work to learn to handle
her properly, maybe an hour over several 15
minute sessions and a half dozen 5 minute sessions.
I hope your ciphering is keepin up with us.
> 2. She is usually kind and affectionate
> toward her owner (me),
Well, usually? I don't like usually. I like always,
consistent,100%, that's what's good. Always consistent.
Consistent behaviors change to other, often seemingly
un-related, consistent behaviors.
Dogs like consistency too, but not repression.
You'll see.
> but recently began turning sour
Ooops! That's good. That tells me the rest
of the problem is as I thought, JUST a little mishandling.
I'll teach youevery thing you need to know.
We're about half way done training aready.
WATCH!
> and for no apparent reason
All problem dog behaviors are a PREDICTABLE
direct result of our ineffective and inappropriate
responses to our dog's innate normal natural
instinctive reflexive responses to circumstances
of their environment WE create for them.
I'll teach you HOWE to train yourself to
respond differently to your dog's instinctive
reflexes to you, which will cause your dog
to reflex differently to your CONDITIONED
reflexive responses and interactions towards
him, compelling him to NATURALLY WANT
to do EVERY THING you ask, cause THAT'S
THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.
Once YOU have learned proper handling
techniques and appropriate non physical
control through conditioned distraction and
praise *(ABOUT 2 HRS WORK, maybe less,)
you'll be able to negotiate any obstacle LIKE
MAGICK, relying on scientific conditioning
and desensitization techniques and demonstrated
self control as explained in our Contract.. err,
your FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual available, ahem, for FREE.
Unless you got that one in a BAZILLION
dog that's gonna throw Jerry the dew claw.
Don't let that happen. I'll work you through
the whole process and you'll see results
tommorow.
You'll have the behavior in pretty good shape
in a week, and in about ten days we should
be ready to start introducing her to a couple
select dogs in about fifteen minutes of work
and then we'll repeat that again a couple
times and again with a couple moore dogs
and then we'll be ready to start with the first
dog again for the off lead introduction and
you're DONE.
Oooops! PROBLEMO. My arithmetic sez
we're gonna need a couple moore days to
work this introduction business till the
aggression is thouroghly and permenantely
extinguished. If we break our Contract, I'm
err, shall we say OUTTA HERE FOREVER?
Of course I could handle this a lot faster in
person myself cause I can control you and
your dog to insure the result, so nobody's
got to do nothin noHOWE, but speak when
I ask, and hush as I speak and relish each
word like candy you'd eat, and jump when
I say, ask HOWE HIGH and salute, and
tout tributes to Jerry's manual whenever
you open your mouth...
That's all. Oh, and one other thing... I hope
you don't faint at the sight of blood. WE got
to sign a contract. HOWE MUCH do you want
this dog to turn out PERFECT in about two
weeks? I'm willing to...shall we say, STAKE
my ahahahahahaaaa, life on it???
BWWWWAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> and...
And NUTHIN. I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME
OF SATAN, DOG LOVER!!!
You'll do as I say and dance when I speak...and
sing for your breakfast and beg for your treat ...
I'll stop at at nuthin to save your dog's life, includin
sellin the souls of my dog and my wife, to prove
there's no way to make a dog lover right.
I'll go with The Devil to save our dog's lives, I'll
fight tooth and nail with guns and with knives,
I'm droppin the hammer on dog trainer's careers,
and takin their eye teeth along with their rears.
They been jerkin and chokin the life outta dogs
and now I got them all by their balls in my jaws...
Now go ahead and pinch my ears..., or just
make me laugh.
I just told you we figured out your dog's problem.
> snarls toward me!
Big deal. She won't do that noMOORE once
you learn to handle her like any of my students.
> This has completely destroyed the trust
What trust? The trust established with your
choke collar and corrections?
Don't worry about a thing. WE got a CONTRACT.
Remember?
> we were building over the past month.
BWWWWAJJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!!
Got me laughin in Spanish and I don't even
speak Spanish.
> 3. She deals with visitors,
Deals? Sounds tentative. She's just a little shy. Don't worry
about it. I'm
the only game in town. I got the deal and Jerry don't make no
deals...
Well not no moore, since I'm temporarily
outta... mmm, currency.
Jerry don't compromise with dog lovers who prefer
to hurt and kill dogs than spend a couple hours
trying to show the dog HOWE to live instead of
forcing IT to choose the degree of pain it prefers
to tolerate in between spurts of life, anxiety, and repression.
> but is very anxious around people she
> doesn't know.
Shy. The anxiety is a result of punishment for being
aggressive cause she's shy, or maybe just from back
when a puppy jumpin up onto a guest and gettin
kneed in the chest or toes stepped on or alphaphalpha
rolled and growled into their throat or just SCRUFF
SHAKED and screamed NO for 5 seconds or chin
CHUCKED and bit on the ears till they piss themselves
or jerked and choked on a pronged spiked pinch choke
collar or burned with a medical grade static like stimulation
device or containment system like our dog lovers at k9
web and cindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooron
recommend TO ENHANCE THE BOND between 'trainer'
and dog.
Our traditional training methods are what's making
your dog turn on you for hurting and scaring her
during her meetings with other dogs.
Our pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and janet
boss recommend pronged spiked pinch choke
and shock and citronella collars for training this
kind of dog... and they'd rather not put IT
through all that when there's SO MANY dogs
that are MOORE deserving of their HELP.
And then they'll kill our best dogs and deny it,
despite it's archived FOREVER.
You see where WE're goin with all this? WATCH.
> At first she would scream if a stranger petted
> her with 2 hands.
I'd probably come real close to dropping the
hammer on them myself. My dogs will bite you
if a stranger meeting us put their hands on us in
a restraining manner. We don't like that.
Trust me.
Strangers touching us means we got to run
and find an adult or a policeman. RIGHT?
Either that or...
> I just don't trust her around anyone yet.
Me too. I never trust a dog. I only trust my
training methods and then we don't got to
worry about what the heel the dog cares...
who the heel's the goddamned trainer, you
or the dog?
THE DOG!
You got to TRAIN YOURSELF to reflex to
his needs properly and then he'll reflex to
his natural instinct and be able to use his
dog skills as part of your family pack,
equally with you and the other family
members.
Every thing you've been taught about
handling your dog is DEAD WRONG
and your dog is prima facia evidence
in Jerry's Giiihhhaaad against the dog
behavior industry for bringing us every
dog behavior problem we've got.
> 4. She lunged at my sisters 2 year old
$#!T! You're gonna try and make this hard for
me aren't ya, pullin the fear/guilt double high
card trump tryin to make Old Jerry roll over
and piss himself with the 2 yo kid card???
NOTHIN DOIN! Get the heel outta here!
IN THE NAME OF SATAN I REBUKE YOU,
DOG LOVERS!!!
> the same way she lunged toward other dogs,
> aggressively.
Duh-Oh! Spooooookey!!!
BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> I really really like this dog,
THAT'S GREAT! I do too. I like all dogs
on general principle and individual dogs
on merit and don't like nobody no moore
than me...and mine. You got your copy
of The Contract?
Don't worry about nuthin. Me an mine are
comin through this alive... sort of, in a sense.
> when she is calm and able to relax.
Vs what? I would like to know when she's not
calm and able to relax... tell us what she's doin.
THOSE are the anxiety relief mechanisms WE
need to deal with so I can fulfill OUR Contract
and... finish you off, and that little dog too!
> I want to keep her,
LIKEWISE. WE got a long term Contract.
Haven't we?
> but I don't really know what the best way to
> establish the necessary trust.
Yeah, as a matter of fact we got EXPERTS here.
Let me INTRODUCE you around?
> Any ideas out there?
Yeah. Our dog lovers were just on their way to
another forum. Weren't you, dog lovers? We'll
introduce our new found friends later.
Right now our OP's got some studying to do
before she has an accident cause she won't
know HOWE to handle her lead to stop
triggering her dog to pull if she's wastin time
with dog abusers who jerk and choke dogs.
That's moore than half of what gets IT angry.
Now if this sounds too unbelievable, I'll just
up the ante.
I'll PAY YOU $10.00 / hr to study with me,
IF YOU FAIL.
Call or write for details and agreement: 1 888 WITSEND.
Your Puppy Wizard. <}YPW;~ ) >
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:gpg0209p02hn94qhb...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:59:51 GMT, "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePupp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >IDIOT.
>
> What's did I do wrong, Jerry?
For starters, you bribed Holly to try to make
her pals with strange men, and IT DIDN'T
WORK, in fact, it exacerbated her phobia,
as The Puppy Wizard has been teaching
for many years.
Second, you're recommending the advice
of dra karen overal, a FINE VETERINARIAN
but a LHOWESY BEHAVIORIST. She's the
EXXXPERT who's been medicating and
supervising Solo's intimidation for three years.
Third, you're playin grab ass with diddler,
a proven liar and sadist, and perhaps believing
what she's sayin abHOWET sudden rage syndrome.
Sudden rage is cause by INTIMIDATION.
Fourth, you took the pit puppy to a trainin class
where you'll learn NUTING but BULLSHIT cause
bribery and force DON'T WORK 100% CONSISTENTLY.
As you've discovered with you own dog.
All the INFORMATION you need is in your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
> Charlie
Here's HOWE COME kwbrown MURDERE her
DEAD DOG Teena:
HOWEDY kwbrown,
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9484493D720ABar...@130.133.1.4...
> Handsome Jack Morrison <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
> news:8gtt10154g57p2cbj...@4ax.com:
>
> >
> > I don't know if anyone has brought this up here
> > before, so I thought I would, just in case.
> >
> > Most of us are familiar with Wikis, and how they
> > work, but this Wiki is particularly interesting. I
> > found it here(thanks to a Dan Gillmor column):
>
> <snip>
>
> > What do you think the chances are that there can
> > ever be one central and essentially exhaustive
> > source of information regarding dogs?
> >
> > And would having one extensive source even be
> > that much of a quantum leap forward, given today's
> > Internet search-engine capabilities?
>
> I like the Wikis' work - it's fun to browse around the
> encyclopedia and see how much accumulated
> knowledge is within.
>
> For a very long time, I have fallen back on the
> K9web.com FAQs,
INDEED? You mean THIS?: "Don't Let Your Dog
Scream. Use Your Hand To Hold His Muzzle
Closed And Tell Him To Quit Moaning," cindymooreon.
> but they seem to have disappeared recently.
Perhaps that's on accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard.
> I can't pull them up today.
And you won't be able t o read Master Of Deception
blankman's viciHOWES web pages pretty soon, either.
> The breed FAQs were generally strong and there
> were some good basic behaviour articles.
>
> Diane's Dog-Play site has had lots of great stuff for years,
too.
INDEEDY! What a recommendation!
> Kate
You JUST MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
on accHOWENT of THEIR EXXXPERT ADVICE!
Here's HOWE COME:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right,
Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very
Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About
The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy
"don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER
FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE
IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp Tap
Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't HaveDone
It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
Subject: "Don't Let Your Dog Scream. Use Your Hand
To Hold His Muzzle Closed And Tell Him To Quit Moaning,"
cindymooreon.
Hey, check it out? Here's our cindy "Don't Let Your Dog
Scream" mooreon's forced fetch page, the one she refused to
discuss and threatened to sue us for quoting from. So here it
is in full.
Barf warning.
"Cindy" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:C80%7.207860$m05.17...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Isn't that funny?
No.
> I can microchip dogs without blinking
Yes. You only feel good when you're hurting something.
> (and check out the needle guage on those puppies sometime if
> you haven't before)
Looks can be deceiving like your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar. HOWE can we know what a dog feels? You bums want a new
definition for hurt. We got to have broken bones or blistered
skin to have hurt.
> but wuss out at the thought of getting a needle let alone
> giving it to
myself.
No doubt. Sadists and cowards only enjoy inflicting pain.
> --Cindy
Below is your forced fetch page...
Hello cindymooreon,
"Cindy" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:M%eY7.109765$m05.9...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> In article
> <371a4c54.01123...@posting.google.com>, Melissa
> Frye <mf...@surfree.com> wrote:
> >A retriever will carry the prey around show everyone, but
> >they don't have that hard snatch and kill usually - they
> >might mouth the cat but not that hard initial killing bite.
I wouldn't bet on that.
> THere's also the retriever that HAS to have something in his
> mouth to properly greet his owner.
That's usually a result of ANXITY from being punished for
jumping or mouthing.
> >Some spaniels will learn to grab a wounded bird take one
> >hard bite to stop it fighting and then bring it in gently.
That's nice of them. Birdies can cause a lot of damage to a
dog's eyes.
> Some retrievers do that too.
Yeah. You prefer they don't.
> >I don't buy that retrieving is a "natural" behavior -
Ever play ball with a dog?
> > I do agree that "carry" drive exists.
Yeah. That's HOWE COME cindymooreon likes to twist and pinch
ears and toes and chuck and cuff and shock dogs to make them
do that.
> > For me, the easist dog the train to retrieve is a dog with
> > very high carry drive
That's pinched choked shocked and beaten into them.
> and low possessivness,
That's pinched choked shocked and beaten outta them.
> > with a decent chase drive.
Visual oral reflex.
> > Dogs like that seem to find it very mentally satisfying
> > to play retrieving games.
Because if they don't play they get jerked and choked and
shocked and beaten till they do play. And they get hung if
they object to their training.
> Hm. I think it's a natural behavior,
Yeah, natural.
> but very subsceptible to being shaped (and in fact is more
> commonly *extinguished* than you might expect).
Yeah. Like your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's flunkie sar
dog Jive...
Hey, check it out? Here's your forced fetch page, the one you
refused to discuss and threatened to sue us for quoting from.
So here it is in full.
Thanks for the FUN:
Here's MOORE reasons why our Gang Of Thugs are EMBARRASSED by
their own works. Here's the post cindymooreon of our faqs page
at k9web threatened to sue us for copyright infringement if we
quoted it:
What is Force Fetching All About?
by Cindy Tittle Moore
Copyright 1997,1998 by the
author; all rights reserved.
THE FORCE FETCH
Alright! Now you are (finally) ready to force fetch your dog.
I repeat, you want to have an experienced person help you out,
someone who has already force fetched her own dogs whether for
obedience or field. This step in the training entails what is
termed avoidance behavior. In a nutshell, the dog is taught
how to "turn off" a negative stimulus. He is carefully taught
that he has complete control over it.
This is a very effective way of teaching, but does
require a more astute sense of timing than some other training
methods and is very difficult for some people to do, for a
variety of reasons. However, if the dog properly knows HOLD at
this point, it's easily done with a minimum of fuss.
Return to your quiet starting place, with the dog on a collar
and leash in front of you, sitting quietly. Instead of opening
his mouth as you have been for the HOLD, put your hand through
the dog's collar (to hold him steady) and with your thumb and
forefinger pinch
the tip of his ears and say TAKE IT (or FETCH, or whatever
you want) Watch his mouth closely -- the moment he opens his
mouth, pop that dumbbell in, let go of his ear but not the
collar, and PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE. Do this three or four times
per session.
When he is opening his mouth in anticipation of the dumbbell,
the next step is to hold the dumbbell just past his lips. This
next step is for him to move his head forward that inch (or
half inch) necessary to get the dumbbell. At this point, he
has a pretty good notion that getting that darned thing into
his mouth is the way to turn off the ear pinch. Most dogs will
lean forward and get it. That's his second milestone! Praise,
praise, praise and repeat three or four times this session.
Remember, I said these sessions were no more than 5 minutes or
so each. That's still true.
Gradually extend the distance so he has to reach further to
get it. Now here is where a few subtleties come into play.
It's not enough for him to merely reach out and grab it. You
want him to commit to getting it. You want him to be intent on
getting it. If he sort of limply reaches over and gets it,
that's not what you want. If you pinch him but have to drag
him toward the dumbbell, that's not what you want either.
We're back to the visualization.
What do you want him to do? You want him to, if necessary,
bust through just about anything to get that dumbbell. So hold
on to that collar until you feel him pulling out of it to get
that. That's his committment.
You want to say TAKE IT and have him just about explode out to
get the dumbbell. As you get further along in this, you will
release him when he's made a good committment -- this will
help shape a speedy response nicely. I think you can see why
it helps to have an experienced person around when you are
doing this! It can be difficult to keep all these things in
mind when you are actually sitting there with a dog in your
hands.
About the ear pinch: You must keep the pressure up until the
instant he has the dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people
have problems getting the pinch right, either they do not
pinch enough, or they have a very stoic dog in which case case
a collar may be needed to help make the pinch more effective.
Also some dogs are screamers, and if they find that they can
stop the pinching by screaming, they've learned the avoidance
technique just fine -- but not with the behavior you had in
mind!
Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to hold his muzzle
closed and tell him to quit moaning. Some dogs will collapse
into a heap. Don't let them do that, that's why your hand is
in the collar. Hold them up and get them back into a sitting
position. What your dog is doing is trying to find other ways
of avoiding the ear pinch.
You need to be firm and consistent and demonstrate that
getting the dumbbell is the only means of avoidance.
Remember to keep him under control. When he gets that dumbbell
in his mouth, pull him gently around back to you and sit him
back down. You may in fact want to sit him at your side in the
heel position (whether or not he actually knows the heel
position), hold the dumbbell in front of him, command him to
take it and then pull him back to a front or finish position
as you wish. The pattern will do him good later.
The next major milestone is putting the dumbbell on the ground
for him to pick up. For many dogs this can be a big deal and
may be difficult. Set the dumbbell on the ground just in front
of them, with your hand on the dumbbell. He may not reach for
it, he may refuse -- keep up the ear pressure until he finally
picks it up. If he really doesn't seem to understand this,
then break this down into an intermediate step where you hold
the dumbbell, but about 1/2 way between the ground and his
mouth.
Once he's picked the dumbbell off the ground, that's a major
milestone and you are just about home free.
As before slowly place the dumbbell further away on the ground
in front of him. Make sure he is pulling out of your hold on
the collar before you let him pick the dumbbell up. If he
drops the dumbbell from this point on, you will get control
of him (put him in a sit with a firm hold on his collar) and
pinch him back to the dumbbell -- he can pick it up now so
there is no need for you to put it in his mouth any more. HE
is the one responsible for getting it.
When he is reliably picking up the dumbbell a few feet from
you, then you can stop using the pinch at the beginning of the
exercise.
You will instead reserve it for when he drops the dumbbell or
refuses to pick it up, etc. So for example, you might go out,
place the dumbbell 6 feet away, put the long lead on him, tell
him to take it. Let's say he hesitates and doesn't go out.
Then you pinch, force him to commit, send him to the dumbbell.
Let's say he goes and gets it, but starts playing with it.
Pull him in, and if he hasn't already dropped the dumbbell,
take it out of his mouth, put it back where it was, and pinch
him to it.
There is one last problem you need to watch for. Many dogs,
especially retrievers, will start pouncing on the dumbbell
once they are able to run out a few steps to it before picking
it up. So transition to this point with a long cotton lead
about 20-30 feet long.
With this you can spin him round the moment he scoops up the
dumbbell, teaching him that he cannot play with it. If your
dog drops the dumbbell, use the lead to pull him back to you
(do not let him try to pick it up), and pinch him back to it.
the basic rule of thumb
is that if he drops it, he will be pinched back to it
regardless.
Thoughts to Consider
Force fetching is never completely done, per se (as with any
exercise taught to a dog). You may need to do a refresher
course when it's something new to pick up, or if it's
something disgusting (like a very dead bird) to pick up. He
may also start to get lazy, you need to keep an eye on him.
You may also realize you omitted some step in training him
that shows up later so you will have to go back and fix it.
But you should also take care to make sure he doesn't forget
any of these hard-earned lessons! Make him carry things for
you. He can carry his own ball out to the park. He can carry
his own utility articles to the ring. He can help you carry a
light bag of groceries into the house. He can help you carry
firewood. They will just love this, and it's a good way to
keep the talents honed. Use it!
> --Cindy
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> "sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<bvouui$v7ej7$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > > Same thing when a dog growls if you take
> > > away its toy. Some people (many people)
> > > set the situation up repeatedly to "teach" t
> > > he dog that they are the master and have
> > > the "right" to take the toy anytime they
> > > want. And it always makes things worse!
Right. Possessivness is abHOWET INSECURITY
and FEAR, not "RESOURCES."
> > Not at all true. It depends on how you handle
> > doing it repeatedly- whether you approach it as
> > "I'm going to teach this dog who's boss!" or in a
> > calm, matter of fact way.
Like THIS:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> > > If, on the other hand, the handler defers, backs off,
THEN you won't PROVOKE the dog to DEFEND hisself,
THEN you won't NEED to MURDER your dog like kwbrown
and tara o. aka tee just done.
> > > and avoids repeating the trigger situation,
You CANNOT TRAIN a dog by AVOIDING his "triggers."
> > > the behavior will often de-escalate
> > > and become less frequent/severe.
THAT'S INSANE.
> > Don't know what you're basing this on, but
> > this is also not at all true. Backing off completely,
> > "deferring" and "avoiding the trigger" is highly
> > likely to *increase* the possessive/dominant
> > behaviour, and get someone bitten.
RIGHT! Just like PUNISHING the FEAR behavior.
> Yep.
Yep? Yep WHAAAT??? YOU HURT and KILL dogs.
> Often resource guarding is a test
That's INSANE. Dogs are POSSESSIVE cause
they're INSECURE and AFRAID.
> that a dog will offer after a month or 2 in a new
> home as part of figuring out his place in that home.
NO. Dogs GET like that after a couple months
of BEING ABUSED.
> The worst thing one could do would be to defer to that test.
That leave you the only alternative of HURTING the dog.
And THEN YOU GET PAID to MURDER IT.
> I also believe resource management
You mean hiding the weenie.
> is a big factor in normalizing the relationship
> as part of dealing with SA.
THAT'S INSANE. Separation anxiety got nuthin
to do with FOOD. Food aggressiong got NUTHIN
to do with FOOD. LIKE SEPARATION ANXIHOWESNES,
it's CAUSED BY FEAR FORCE INTIMIDATION and
CRATING to AVOID behavior problems.
> I'd recommend Jean Donaldson's new book
> on resource guarding, "Mine!".
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> Lynn K.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING, therefore they can be CURED,
NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda [mailto:ama...@dcfwatch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Discipline On Tuesday 14 January
> 2003 20:47, T__ wrote:
>
> funny you bring this up... i met the most wonderful
> couple.. man and wife.. he's a dog trainer.. all his life
> who uses a technique that is ONLY praise and distraction
> with some family pack exercises.
>
> They spent the day with us sunday helping me on my two
> pits... one is a protective/aggressive 20 month old female
> who is my bubby :) and our 7 week male pup. anyway..
> not only did i nip any and all aggression issues in mere
> minutes... he and his wife helped me with my kids. I was
> and always have been a spanker. It is all i knew how.. i
> never, ever wanted to be.. but i was. my house/kids were
> out of control.. i was always stressed.
>
> Since he and his wife came down sunday we've had a
> HUGE change... for the first time the kids didn't destroy
> my house before i woke up... my 3yo was in my bed coloring
> waiting for us to wake up... this is the first time she
> ever used paper :) she usually does walls, furniture.
>
> Anyway.. he told me to use sound/praise..
>
> and it works.
>
>I have a 6 yo, 3.5 yo who is psycho child :) and a very
> bad-a$$ 19 month old. They are all smarter than I am
> and know it :) There has not been a temper tantrum
>in two days in my house.
>
> You guys have no idea how great this is.
> But best of all..
>
> this method does NOT use the evil eye or a tone of that is
> in any way short of absolute praise.. no shouting.. not
> even a quiet Chloe!.. nada..
>
> ONLY praise.
>
> They even taught my kids not to take candy unless i say
> so.. (my oldest> will literally let you pierce her ears
> for candy.. it's been done twice and i keep taking em out)
> and now the bag of blow pops i forget on the floor in my
> closet (where we keep the girl's dressed) is still there
> and NO ONE has eaten one!
>
> My 3 yo is even helping me pick up the house..
> the baby took my lingerie chest apart.. and she cleaned it
> up! first time! They don't even go out the open door
> without my offering it! they helped me sort laundry..
> clean the living room... im amazed.
>
> The 3 yo got some yogurt from the fridge andwalked
> to our kitchen table, sat down and ate it.. she REFUSES
>to sit at the table and eat!
>
> We also taught them and the dogs to sit pretty so when
> they're climbing on my couch.. i go Can you show me how
> you sit pretty?? and they ALL hop down and show me to sit
> pretty with their feet NOT on the cofee table.. hands
> friggin folded.. i almost fell over.. thanks for reminding
> me to share my joy! I'm not a spanker! I don't even yell!
> lol! here i picked names that shout well and i don't
> need em!!!
>
> > how old is your bub amanda? waht's the bub doing?/
> > Hello again ladies, Amanda, I love your signature. I
> > also do not spank my daughter, however, she is at an age
> > where she really is asserting her independence. Can
> > anyone help with ideas of what I can do? Blessings,
> > T.
----------------------
Subject: Re Discipline. Also, SLEEP! Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003
02:38:46 -0500 From: Amanda <ama...@dcfwatch.com>
> Can you go into this a little more? How did they
> accomplish all this in one day?
My learning is progressive. I email or call him with
questions. But, i'm getting most of it myself. Something
clicked.
How would we do it with our families?
that is kind of broad.. ask me specifics... or i'd still be
typing when your kids are in college ;)
> I really have problems controlling my temper when I am
> already stressed out and then C__ is hurting me:
Me too.. i was abused... my mom was psycho... and i had
problems with anger.. i took it personally when my 6 yr old
wouldn't clean her room... i would sometimes cry is was so
strung out.. i didn't wanna spank but i didn't know what to do
instead.. so i spanked.. and then spanking didn't work.. and
then my dogs went nuts and i called this trainer and he showed
me how to do it.
pulling my hair, scratching me, slapping me, etc.
Mine hit me on purpose alot.. scratching.. climbing on me..
hurting me and then laughing.
Now as I post.. please don't think im trying to be a know it
all.. i simply wanna relay what i have learned... as it is
i've only been spank free for a week now and yell free for two
days (my neighbors two streets over are happy :)
Children, dogs, people.. they do thinks wrong because it
elicits your ultimate attention. Does your 3 year old enjoy
fingerpainting on walls? no... do they enjoy fighting the
minute you pick up the phone?? No.
They *know* they can command your attention.. and that's
what they want. same reason your dogs fight.. they think it
is controlling you.
Your kids want you watching their every move.. making sure
they eat.. dont talk to strangers.. because it means you are
watching THEM and not them watching you as it should be. they
should stay within x feet of you.. because they like mom and
she's cool and she keeps em safe... they shouldn't run and
expect you to chase them.. because you won't always be there
to chase them... that's how kids die or get lost.
When they learn to follow you.. it's all good.
Now, take my 19 mo old. She had this habit of sipping 4 oz
from her bottle and demanding more. if i didn't refill it..
she threw a hgue fit. Now she hands me her bottle and says
more.. and i tickle her... then i pick up her bottle and
pretend im drinking it.. i offer her a drink and snatch it
back saying MY Baba!! She wants that bottle.. so she takes it
and drinks it.. even tho i didn't refill it. we had a huge
problem with them taking things they cant have and when i
wanted it they ran... now i give the baby (19mo) my finger..
and she grabs it.. and i wiggle and shout My finger! that's
mine! Gimme it back.. playfully.. and she resists.. and i go
"Ooh.. can i have it please?" and she gives it to me and i
gleefully say Thank you! and she says you're welcome.. and i
give her the finger back... then i hand her say a lighter...
and we wrestle for a minute.. and i say... can i have that???
and she gives it over etc. Of course sometimes she'll have a
cool! book! and ill ask can i have that.. and shell say No.
and i say that's ok! and tickle her or snap my fingers and
say good girl naya.. good job.. then ill start my game again
and wrestle and try to take it gently... then.. can i have
that??? she gives it over. this works with everything now.
> Or when he's ripping up my homework or something like
> that.
Yea... with the dog training you hide nothing.. no forced
control. you set the dog up for fail.. so you can distract
and praise and erase the thought.. same with the kids. Put
some unimportant paper all over.. when he goes to touch it..
make a sound and distract him.. then good boy, that's a nice
baby!... then repeat.. the minute he goes for the paper and
breaks the thgouth you throw him in the air and praise like
mad!
> How would I apply this in those situations? Also, what do
> you do in 'danger' situations (until you're close enough
> to distract them) - climbing on things, sticking metal
> objects into electrical outlets, trying to get into the
> oven, etc.?
Use your judgement.. if you have the distance/time to
distract... do it.. if you don't... pick them up and away..
but act like it's to throw em in the air.. so they don't know
youre forcing control by phsycially removing them... cuz when
you force control.. with the come command when you want your
dog away from something... or when you pull a dirty shoe from
your baby's mouth.. you put value on it.
Like when your kid puts a penny in its mouth.. youll try to
pry its mouth open to get it... and he'll clamp right down..
you gave that penny VALUE! it's not just a piece of crap..
mom WANTS IT!
so.. instead you make a game.. say you want em to smit it
out... walk somewhere else... attract their attention.. be
kinda sneaky... odds are the thing in their mought will get
annoying and they'll spit it out when they walk toward you...
if all else fails.. pry it outta their smiling jaws... snatch
em up away from falling down... but only when you have to..
then work realy hard to overcome that forced control.
Also don't make a big deal about it.. or else theyll learn not
only to command your attention, but also mom will always catch
me so she is watching me.. not me watching her.
> I never realized how spirited C__ was until I started
> tending other kids.
those are my kids. I have had social workers with their
degrees in child development stop offering me services cuz
they couldn't handle my kids... my friends call mine the
obstinate kids.
> They're docile kittens compared to C__! This brings up
> another question - what do you do when YOUR child is the
> bully?
if you catch it before it happens.. loud sound.. big
distraction and PRAISE. if you catch it afterward... distract
and say oh my goodness! and pay attention to the other kid...
he wont get the attention... then explain how that hurts.
odds are your kid won't hurt another kid if he truly
understands its not nice.
> C__ is always beating the other boy over the head when he
> comes over. We don't hit in anger in our family
i have.. everyone does in my family... i did it a few times
over 4 years... but that is because i didn't know how not to.
i know now.. and i wanna tell everyone i can.. so someone else
doesn't spank their kids due to a lack of knowledge.
> (we do it playfully sometimes, so we are curtailing that
> in case it is giving him ideas)
my kids, 6yo, 3yo and 19 month old, favorite game is chasing
around the house (all 4 of us) with wooden spools yelling at
the top of our lungs "I'm gonna beat your a$$.. HA HA HA... no
IM gonna beat YOUR a$$ MU HA HA HA" my neighbors prolly
think im nuts.. but the kids love it dog even plays too
> but I admit that after I have been trying to get him to go
> to sleep for 45 minutes, I get a little rough sometimes.
> It's really frustrating. He'll be dead tired - eyes
> bright red, fussy, eyes almost closing every 5 seconds.
It gets worse... they all do it around that time.. they don't
want to sleep.. andyou know what? they don't grow out of it
until they're parents :) it's one of those times you have to
use your patience and keep distracting and praising.
> So I'll take him into the bedroom, and lay down to nurse
> him. He'll nurse for about 5 seconds and then jump up and
> run to the window and start bending the blinds.
he wants you upset.. he wants your undivided attention. you
have to refuse it.. no evil eye.. no "conner" quiet or not..
no anger.. complete nonchalance.. they have to have a total
complete entire lack fo negative attention.. and all they'll
be able to do is sit back and enjoy the positive!
One shout.. one name call.. one No! and it takes awhile to
work up to the positive only.
> So I gently pick him up and lay him back down.
try not to.. but if you have to ok
> And we repeat the process over 10000 times.
when he goes to sit up.. when yous see the thought on his
face.. distract with sound and follow with praise or a song or
giggle.
> Then I get frustrated and lay him down less gently.
better than my method of plop em in the crib and let em cry.
No anger.. stay calm.. meditate, pray.. breath.. try to
remember they will not always be this small.. and youll never,
ever for anything get it back. it's what im using
> That makes him cry, which is the last straw that FINALLY
> gets him to nurse to sleep.
He got you riled up.. what he wanted.. time to sleep.
> Writing it out, I thought of something. He must have a
> lot of excess tension he needs to release before sleeping,
> and finally crying releases it for him.
no way... crying isn't a release.. sometimes.. maybe for
some people.. crying is frustration, pain, hunger,
sadness... sometimes joy.. sometimes tension.. but not
because of his life.. because he's insecure... their dealing
with negative and positive.. and thats what makes em
insecure.
> Any good ways to do this that don't involve crying?
distraction and praise.. if all else fails get up and dance..
fast for day.. slow rocking at night.
> Turning on soft music and swaying in the sling used to
> work for us, but now he either grabs at everything he can
> reach or bends over backwards until he's hanging upside
> down.
cuzhe knows what you're doing. hold him instead.. or sit him
in your lap on the bed and rock
> Putting the sling over his shoulders to prevent that
> doesn't work either. He acts like he is being tortured
> and screams and fights to
> get out.
becuase it is forced control.
> Katie
Amanda.
The Puppy Wizard
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94844CFCECFD4ar...@130.133.1.4...
> diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in
> news:Xns948451C...@216.196.97.132:
>
> > Aren't English Springer Spaniel's subject to sudden
> > rage syndrome?
Any dog is subject to DEFENDING hisself from ABUSE.
<snip diddler's IDIOCY>
> > IF SRS was the case, I feel euth was justified.
Sudden RAGE is CAUSED by HURTING and
INTIMIDATING your dogs.
> ESS are susceptible to unexplained aggression,
Pehaps that's on accHOWENT of you ABUSE them.
> but there is not a consensus on why or how it happens.
CAUSE ABUSERS DENY THEIR ABUSE, kwbrown.
> Some people suspect a kind of epiliptic seizure,
INDEEDY. That's CAUSED by withholding bribes
and RELYING ON pain fear force and intimidation.
> some think it's out of control dominance aggression.
AIN'T NO SUCH THING IN DOGS, it's only in HUMANS.
> Some in the breed are careful to distinguish "rage,"
> which is very rare,
INDEEDY! IT DOESN'T EXIST unless you ABUSE the dog.
> and seems to involve the dog flipping into totally-
> out-of-control aggression
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
Like when you MURDERED YOUR DOG.
You did it cause you're a natural born coward
and dog abuser.
> and then not seeming to remember anything a
> few minutes later,
It's an OCD behavior problem CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
ALL OCD'S ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDING.
> from other aggressive behaviour.
Only difference is the dog isn't bein HURT or
INTIMIDATED at the moment IT REMEMBERS
HIS ABUSE and his "victim" doesn't NEED to
BE his ABUSER.
> I don't think this is what happened to Teena -
RIGHT. Teena was ABUSED since DAY WON,
and WE CAN PROVE IT through your own postin
history right here in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
> I think she was a dog with a hinky personality
NO. She was owned and abused by a PSYCHOPATH.
> from the start who was sliding downhill from "manageable,"
You mean you could FORCE and INTIMIDATE her
enough to CONTROL HER when you was standing
there ready to HURT and INTIMDATE her someMOORE.
> to "dangerous."
She became MOORE MISTRUSTFUL as YOU ABUSED
HER MOORE and MOORE according to the ADVICE of
HOWER DOG LOVERS HERE.
> Teena's breeder has clearly seen this kind of
> behavioural slide before:
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Perhaps that jerking and choking on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and shocking and locking
IT in a box to AVOID sitations you couldn't HURT
your dog for, is what CAUSED her to become MOORE
FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
> and we may be able to say more fairly that there
> are unstable dogs in the breed
NO. There was NUTHIN WRONG with Teena
that NOT ABUSING her wouldn't CURE, NEARLY
INSTANTLY.
> (Teena being one)
Teena had been ABUSED since DAY WON.
> than to blame it all on dramatic "Springer Rage."
You mean "Springer DISPLACED FEAR AGGRESSION."
> I think we're looking at two issues here:
INDEEDY. We're lookin at a NORMAL DOG
owned and abused by a PSYCHOPATH.
> 1) The question asked by the OP:
You mean, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
SHE'S A CERTIFIED BONAFIDE MENTAL
CASE, PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, and DOG
ABUSER:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
> When is it warranted to put a dog down?
The Puppy Wizard has NEVER MURDERED
a dog for BAD BEHAVIOR. But you did. And
so do your pals here:
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
> Here, Michael claims "never,"
Well Soup is RIGHT again.
> and Charlie accepts that sometimes
> a dog has to be euthanized, although
> he's mostly considering physically
> ill animals.
"MOSTLY" doesn't cut it.
> My choice in this behaviour-related episode
You CHOSE to HURT and INTIMIDATE your
DEAD DOG like your MENTALLY ILL PALS:
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
> was driven by the fact that this dog was becoming
> more and more unreliable
As you progressively INTIMIDATED and HURT HER.
> and that there were children whose faces are at
> the level of her teeth in and out of my home.
That's INSANE. Kids got no MOORE right to
living in safety than your carpenter or plumber
or any other visitor to your HOWES.
> I would not accept this animal as a trustworthy
> member of our househould any more
THAT'S CAUSE YOU HURT AND INTIMIDATED HER.
> and, furthermore, would not accept the legal
The Puppy Wizard intends to make HURTING
dogs and children ILLEGAL.
> and moral
BWEEHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
LIARS DOG ABUSERS AND CERTIFIED MENTAL
CASES CANNOT TALK ABHOWET MORALS
ETHICS PRINCIPLES or COMMON HUMAN DECENCY.
YOU HURT YOUR DOG AND THAT'S HOWE COME
YOU NEEDED TO MURDER IT.
> liability
The LIABILITY of HURTING DOGS is your CHOICE to risk.
> if she *ever* bit *anyone* *anytime* after these
> documented incidents.
BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
THAT'S HOWE COME YOU HURT
HER IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
> 2) How did the dog become dangerously aggressive?
SHE COPIED YOUR ACTIONS AND ATTITUDES.
> The Peanut Gallery votes for handler incompetence,
PROVEN BY YOUR OWN WORDS indellibly
archived forver in The Puppy Wizard's Archives..
> which is their prerogative,
IT'S PROVEN IN YOUR OWN WRITING.
> given that this is a dog they've never seen,
We don't gotta SEE a DOG ABUSER ABUSING
the dog they write abHOWET ABUSING. We
CAN'T SEE a BEHAVIOR the dog is THINKING.
WE KNOW HOWE COME DOGS TURN ON
THEIR ABUSERS, kwbrown.
> in the hands of someone with years of
> experience with multiple dogs,
YEARS OF MISHANDLING AND ABUSE
as PROVEN by your own posting history, kw.
> none of whom have ever so much as looked
> at me crosswise.
That's cause SUDDEN DISPLACES RAGE SYNDROME
only happens to 10% of HOWER DEAD DOGS... same
same as OCD behavior problems only happens to 10%
of HOWER MOST SENSITIVE DOGS.
> Teena came to me in pretty bad shape and
AND SO YOU HURT and INTIMIDATED HER TO DEATH.
> made remarkable improvement over several years
> of intensive work
BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
The Puppy Wizard routinely rehabilitates dogs
all over the Whole Wild World JUST LIKE Teena,
NEARLY INSTANTLY, withHOWET HURTIN THEM,
from settin right here, stark ravin nekkid.
FOR FREE.
YOU CHOSE TO HURT and MURDER YOUR DEAD DOG.
> and training,
Care to DIS-CUSS your "training???," kwbrown?
You already have, in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
> most of which involved lots and lots of cookies.
BRIBERY INCREASES ANXIETY.
> The progress we made together is why this
> terrible slide downhill was so heartbreaking.
BWEEEEEHAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
YOU'LL GET OVER IT, like mikey d sez:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING is COURTEOUS?
> Of course, anyone who believes that routinely
> grooming a coated dog is, in and of itself, an
> act of incompetent handling,
No, GROOMIN didn't MURDER YOUR DOG.
HOWE you handled IT when you groomed IT
did HOWEver, make your dog FEARFUL
and MISTRUSTFUL, so you MURDERED
YOUR DOG cause THAT'S the nature of
a NATURAL BORN COWARD.
> needs some time in a shelter cleaning up
> a dog whose owner didn't think mats were
> such a big deal.
You smacked and further intimidated your
DEAD DOG when SHE SCARED YOU
while you was pinching and pulling her
matted coat. WE EXXXPECT TO GET
BIT when we DO THAT.
> In the end,
In the end YOU BLAMED THE DOG and MURDERED IT.
> I have the work of two vets, a behaviourist, a trainer,
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> and the dog's own breeder supporting the diagnosis
> of escalating aggression,
BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> and am comfortable with my decision, however sad.
INDEEDY! Just like Rober Crim... EXXXCEPT
HE REFUSED TO REPEAT HIS MISTAKES.
> Kate
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:h682209gev4f15adp...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:41:49 GMT, "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePupp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >HOWEDY CHUMP,
> >
> >We' ve had DOZENS of "EXXXPERT"
> >donaldson trainers RIGHT HERE who
> >are equally as iNEFFECTIVE and
> >INCOMPETENT as jean is herself.
> >
> >BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> >
> >The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
> >
> >
> What's wrong with her approach, Jerry?
For starters, she relies on BRIBERY. That's
HOWE COME you didn't get 100% SUCCESS
with your own dog Holly who is STILL AT RISK
of having a TRAGICK DEADLY ACCIDENT, CHUMP.
> I haven't ordered the book yet, but I'm going
> to do so this morning. I'll let you know what I
> think.
It doesn't matter WHAT you THINK.
NUTHIN CHANGES in BEHAVIORISM:
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual." The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.SAME SAME
SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior
BUSINESS.
A Dog Is A Dog As A Child Is A Child. They
Respond In Predictable Innate, Normal,
Natural, Instinctive, Reflexive, Ways, To
Circumstances And Situations Of Their
Environments Which We Create For Them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean
War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By
HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK
What We TAUGHT.
> Charlie
"If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With
You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not
Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What
You Do Not Know You Will Fear.
What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George,
adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'End Dog Training
Method Manual.
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===============
From: Nevyn (grea...@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: thoughts ?
Date: 2003-11-12 19:39:39 PST
Hi Tidds
Personally, if I was completely incompetent and niave and had
no idea about dog training, I would use Mugfords' method. We
sell his Halti at work to people who buy dogs. However, after
using Jerry Howes manual for almost a year I have devised my
own method of training which incorporates teaching your pet to
be well behaved and being obedient. .
They are conditioned the same way a parent conditions
a child. Parents will create behavioural problems in a
child (and for the rest of his life) if, when they child is
doing something, they always look at the negative aspects.
"Why didn't you get the extra 10% on your test? You
missed a spot of paint on your model train etc..."
Believing that this will drive him to improve himself,
but it doesnt, because we don't think like that.
But, as I do with the dogs i train, if you use the theory
that. "Thats wonderful! But its even better if you do it
this way!". This is how i train my dogs.
You MUST praise all behaviour.
Doesn't matter if good or bad.
They will always want to please you, and if they
can do it in a better way, they pick it up alot
quicker.
When I was studying my vet nursing certificate, my
behavioural studies teacher was trying to teach us that you
must SCREAM IN THE DOGS FACE TO GET IT UNDER CONTROL.
Wow.
Her and I spent nearly 2 hours arguing infront of the class. Not
to mention I was the only male in a class of 20. But we won't
go into that !hehe Needless to say I managed to make her see
the light about getting dogs to calm themselves. She now keeps
a copy of Jerrys manual on her desk for reference. Huh.
Amazing!
We have behavioural therapists for dogs. Everyone knows this.
We also have behavioural therapists for people. Did you know
that? No, they are not psychologists. They "train" people,
who'se parents mistreated them, to be able to socialise and be
in society, get into the workforce, be able to live with a
spouse, even teach fathers who were abused how not to abuse
their wife and children.. Now. How would that work if THEY
SCREAMED IN THEIR CLIENTS FACES when they did something wrong?
No. They comfort them, reassure them, praise
them and ask them to try again.
--
Thankyou,
Nevyn
_________________________________
Nevyn E.D.
Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
grea...@badmama.com.au
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment of animals"
__________________________________
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:ta72201vi0np1dcv4...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:12:06 -0600, Gwen Watson
<gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:35:12 -0600, Gwen Watson
<gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Suja wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Gwen Watson wrote:
> >> >> > I believe I need that book, ASAP.
Seems gwen honey still likes to abuse her dogs.
> >> >> What's going on? Is Rez resource guarding
> >> >> from the big bad dogz?
IMAGINE THAT???
> >> >> FYI, but there is a small section on it in 'Dogs
> >> >> are from Neptune', which talks about troubleshooting
> >> >> lots of doggie behavior problems.
Well ain't that special?? ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> >> >> Suja
>
> >> >I definitely need to obtain this book.
gwen honey likes to shock and jerk and
choke her dogs on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars.
> >> > I wonder is it available at Barnes and Noble
> >> > or must I do the Amazon.com ordering?
>
> >> >Gwen
> >
> >> Call the San Francisco SPCA.
They KILL dogs there, CHUMP.
> >> That's where Jean Donaldson works. Call 415-554-3024
> > > or 800-211-7722. I'm going to order the book myself.
>
> >> Charlie
>
> >Thanks Charlie,
>
> >It does sound like from the review the book is
> > written more with dog trainers in mind.
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> > I don't feel skilled enough to call myself
> >a "dog trainer".
IMAGINE?
> Dog lover yes and "dog love to be a trainer".
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!
> Bah. Ever watch Pet Stars, Gwen?
You should ask gwen honey abHOWET her
recent TRAGICK SHOCK FENCE ACCIDENT,
CHUMP.
> Ordinary hillbillies train their animals to do very
> sophisticated routines. Mainly what they've got
> going for them is a lot of time on their hands to
> play around with their pets.
And they don't HURT and INTIMIDATE them.
> The self-appointed druids in this group want to
> imagine that dog training is an elite, rarified professional
> calling. But it's not a profession at all, as evidenced by
> the fact that it requires no formal education or degree -
RIGHT. All you gotta do is STUDY and DO all of
the techniques taught in your FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual.
> - which is a good thing,
INDEEDY. But the PROBLEM IS, HOWER DOG
LOVERS WON'T STOP HURTING and BRIBING
their dogs till they gotta MURDER them. That's
when they BLAME THE DOG for objecting to
being HURT and INTIMIDATED and becoming
AGGRESSIVE cause of WITHHOLDING BRIBES.
> because I don't think too many colleges or universities
> (outside of matchbook schools perhaps) offer degree
> programs in dog training.
Right. But we DO have ANAL-ytic behaviorISM
as taught by professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and
SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for five seconds
and lock IT in a box for ten minutes reflection"
dermer at UofWI.
> Get the book, read it, and if it's any damn good
> you will be able to use it to resolve your dog's
> behavior problems just as well as anyone else.
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!
> Charlie
THAT'S HOWE COME The Puppy Wizard
calls you a CHUMP.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"Nevyn" <grea...@badmama.com.au> wrote in message
news:10616959...@grimiore.conceptual.net.au...
HOWEDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRY'S MANUAL
1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.
2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.
3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!
Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !
4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!
5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !
Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.
6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!
BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
Nevyn
================
From: Nevyn (ne...@webtec.net.au)
Subject: thoughts on wits end
Date: 2003-03-18 17:30:13 PST
I guess the goal of every trainer is to find his preferred
method of training a dog. This is exactly what the wits' end
manual will help you do. Reading this manual will give you a
base on which to create your own method. When you bake a cake, you
read the recipe first, then the next time, you may
look at the recipe and indulge yourself, adding this or that,
removing this or removing that, changing this or changing
that. The next time you decide to bake this certain cake, you
wont need the recipe, youve created your own, using your own
method.
It is imperative to begin by disaccociating "training" from
"behavioural therapy". They are not the same things. When
you pick up a dog trainers business card, it says "JOE
BLOGGS, DOG TRAINER AND BEHAVIOURAL THERAPIST, 25 YEARS
EXPERIENCE".
If training and behavioural therapy were the same, why
would an expert put them as different things on their card?.
Exactly.
It is my belief, from my own experience, that "training" as
such, though it will create an animal that will do as it is
asked, does not create the complete human-canine companionship
bond that can exist. Nor does it address
certain behavoural issues. Sure, the dog will STOP doing
what its doing wrong, but it doesnt REMOVE the behaviour, because
the dog is still THINKING about doing this certain behaviour, but
is scared of being told to STOP.
Nevyn
================
From: Nevyn (ne...@webtec.net.au)
Subject: You guys are nuts...
Date: 2003-02-26 01:52:21 PST
Hey Everyone,
It's Nevyn here. Remember me? I hope so.
Well I see your all baggin on Jerry as usual. Well... Why?
His Methods are the best I have come across. And I have
visited 10's of trainers and behavioural therapists. His
methods create a _COMPANION_ animal. A FRIEND.
His methods do not create slaves and dogs that are trained
in obedience only. OBIDIENCE TRAINING Does not address Behavioural
problems, people! Companionship training DOES.
Why? Because the dog comes to rely on YOU as its mentor.
Norma Briggs... Your licking problem... ok. My dog used to do
this. I let her sleep inside on the beds. After using Jerrys
manual, within 3 days she had stopped. She doens't lick at
all. What's happening is she is WORRYING that you are
incapacitated in some way. So she is licking you for a
response. She is NOT Maliciously waiting for you to go to
sleep. Do you understand that?
After meeting Jerry almost 24 months ago now, I have decided
to become a Trainer and Therpist myself. I am doing some
private training here and there. But I do not take peoples
dogs and do "dog programming" like all you "professional"
trainers. I observe the dog and its' handler and TRAIN THE
HANDLER TO HANDLE CORRECTLY. Most dogs' only
need to see me three times and then they are well on there
way to being a perfect companion, ALL USING JERRYS MANUAL.
All of you can scream Koehler all you like, or quote Mike
Dufort all you want. They are sadistic controlling men who
must have been abused some way as a child. Indirectly or
Directly it doesnt matter. They use the dogs as an excuse
and as a release, causing pain and harm to innocent -- YES
INNOCENT -- Creatures who have done nothing wrong then simply
trying to learn what they are being taught. HOW MANY
DOGS U SPRAYED WITH BITTER APPLE THIS WEEK MIKE?
DO YOU STILL CRINGE WHEN YOU DO IT? "...then
continue with your nomral behaviour" YEP, IM SURE
THE DOGS LOVE SEEING YOU BEATING UP YOUR
KIDS. COZ THATS THE KINDA PERSON YOU COME
ACROSS AS.
I am tired of posting to this list. All of you Koehler
wanna-bes out there only fight Jerry because you will be put
out of business. It is sick. You cause harm for money, then
when you fail and advise the owner to murder their dog.
If any of you remember my first post, I was asking for help
with controlling my two mongrel bitches out in the street.
WELL THANKS TO JERRY I can now simply say "lets
go for a walk" and they line up at my feet, and we walk
around the neighbourhood, off the leash, past other dogs,
past people, past children and babies. They stop and sit
at every road until I say it's ok to cross.
And Jerrys machine... hahahaha. You guys... his machine is a
god send. It stops barking and destructive behaviour. Jerry
sent me one, FREE OF CHARGE, and I have lent it to over 20
people and families. ALL HAVING 100% results! Compulsive
barkers just watched passerbys instead of viciously
barking.... Whiners who wanted inside every waking moment were
happy to be outside... dont you get it? IT WORKS. Don't fight
progess people. Koehler is old school. His methods are not
valid in this instance, or I should say, no longer valid in
this culture... this day and age.
Heed my words people...
Talk to Jerry... He is not false.
Nevyn.
==============
Nevyn writes:
Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive had with
your training manual! My two mutts have gone from out-of-control
psychos to obedient well behaved companions within a matter of
weeks! AND My friends have seen the success and have asked
me to work on their dogs!
I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female today and
she was being an angel after like an hour of working with her!
it is AMAZING!!
I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes where the
"Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a degree? A
masters? a Phd? by the way? NO they are average joes
off the street who think they know how to train dogs!)
Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!
NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.
================
Never give out your password or credit card number in an
instant message conversation.
Nevyn says:
hello Jerry.
Jerry says:
HOWEDY Nevyn
Nevyn says:
How are you?
Jerry says:
sup?
Nevyn says:
Oh nothing
Nevyn says:
My dogs are alot better now!
Jerry says:
fine
Jerry says:
tell me
Nevyn says:
I can walk them on or off the leash and they don't give a #@%
about other dogs
Jerry says:
naah
Nevyn says:
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats
Jerry says:
naah
Nevyn says:
Yup
Jerry says:
what did you do, buy a shock collar?
Nevyn says:
No
Nevyn says:
Praised them
Jerry says:
ahh!
Jerry says:
you think they're 100% better
Nevyn says:
'cept they still bark at the neighbour but only coz
he swears at them and pours water on them
Nevyn says:
nahh they still have stinky breath!
Nevyn says:
muahaha
Jerry says:
ok
Jerry says:
I'll go for that
Jerry says:
it'll take a couple more days to break the
neighbor thing if you're consistent
Jerry says:
then he won't swear and throw water at them
Nevyn says:
yeah but he's only out on the weekends
Jerry says:
but they'll still have stinky breath
Nevyn says:
muahahaha
Jerry says:
you gonna write the group and tell them they're suckin hind
teat?
Nevyn says:
eh
Nevyn says:
nah
Nevyn says:
cant
Nevyn says:
my news server isn't workin
Nevyn says:
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it
Jerry says:
why not.
Nevyn says:
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server
Jerry says:
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog lovers who would
prefer
to see you choke and shock and lock your dogs in a box?
Jerry says:
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that they don't
already know,
huh?
Nevyn says:
hah
Nevyn says:
tell them they're fuckers who need to die
Nevyn says:
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much
Jerry says:
that's HOWE COME they got me now
Jerry says:
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?
Nevyn says:
pfftt
Nevyn says:
it didn't even seem like training
Nevyn says:
its been 24 days since I got your manual
Jerry says:
pfffttt!!!!
Jerry says:
hhahahahaha
Jerry says:
have you got that feeling that they're in tune with EVERYTHING
you're
wanting them to do?
Jerry says:
I forgot what city you're in.
Jerry says:
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you can swing by and
LAUGH your ass
off at him growling at his dogs???
Jerry says:
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Nevyn says:
LOL
Nevyn says:
I'm in Perth, Australia!
Nevyn says:
and yes they do seem to be in tune
=====================
Nevyn says:
oh!! the other day my dogs went into submissive position when
a tiny little toy poodle came up barking at them! !LOL
Jerry says:
EXCELLENT!
Nevyn says:
lol
Jerry says:
they knew they didn't need to fight, cause everything was in
your expert control.
Keep up the good work. j;~)
-----------------
From: Nevyn (ali...@wasp.net.au)
Subject: Newsgroups: rec. pets. dogs. behavior
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST
Hello
I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly are Blue Heeler
(spots) x Kelpi (dominant genes) x American Pitbull (behavioural)
x Pug (don't laugh!).
They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at home with them, and
they are friendly with unknown people. They are sisters. One is
obviously dominant over the other, and I don't have a problem
with that, however;
Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they are very good
whilst I'm walking them, some days they are not. They are 3
years old and have only been walking for about 12 months
because my mom didn't walk them and now I'm home so I
walk them for about an hour and half every afternoon. I take
them to the park where they chase birds and swim in the lake.
This is my problem :
The less-dominant dog viscously barks at every other dog we
walk past; I have tried using a stick and giving her a tap when
she does it, and treating her with treats when she doesn't,
using a choke chain, a muzzle and a thing that sprays stuff in
her mouth when she barks.
She won't stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her? ]
Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know this is WRONG,
when the other dog barks, she doesn't bark, but she nips at the
other dog as if telling her to cut it out, and then the barking
one
attacks the more-dominant one and they fight on the leash... it is
quite disturbing to the people walking past.
And also the more-dominant one is okay around other dogs...
SOMETIMES... sometimes she completely ignores them,
and yet other times she will attack them, like yesterday. The
less dominant one I must keep on a leash if a person brings
there dog to the park.
How do I stop them attacking other dogs? I have tried all the
methods I have used above for 10 months every afternoon.
Is it just a pac k-behaviour thing?
It can really be quite embarrassing when your dogs attack some
old lady's or little girl's dog.
They are good dogs, when at home or when there are no other
dogs around. Today there were hundreds of sparrows flying
around the park and they were chasing them and jumping up
trying to catch them for more than 90 minutes (They went
straight to bed when I bought them home!).
Can anyone help me? Email me at my emails
address, ali...@wasp.net.au coz this list is tooo crowded.
Thanks,
Nevyn
=======================
The Puppy Wizard
"Debbie S" <staf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27720-40...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
>
> From: charlie...@users.easynews.com
>
> <Meanwhile I have none of these problems, and over the past
couple of
> years I have cared for 20 or more dogs at various times, because
I have
> become very interested in dogs.>
>
> IOW, you're brand-spankin' new to dogs, and have precious little
> experience.
>
> < Are the dogs I encounter so different from the ones owned by
people
> who post in this group?>
>
> Yes. As someone else previously stated, you're so new to dogs,
you
> don't even realize how little you know.
>
> Debbie
>
The Puppy Wizard
A "solid stay" MEANS for long periods
of time withHOWET the handler.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"Debbie S" <staf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27720-40...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
> From: span...@scs.gmu.edu (Suja)
>
> <Yeah, too young to expect to have solid stays.>
>
> I disagree, unless your definition of 'solid stay' means out of
sight
> for long periods of time.
>
> Debbie
>
The Puppy Wizard
jean donaldson recommends BRIBING the dog,
not building TRUST and CONFIDENCE, and
THAT'S HOWE COME she's GONNA FAIL
10% of the time and KILL THE DOG to be FAIR.
Possession aggression got NUTHIN to do with
FOOD or POSSESSIONS, it's got all to do with
TRUST.
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog
won't tell on you...
"With him, words play no torturing tricks
.........., " John Galsworthy.
Their behaviors reflect our words, actions
and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The
Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
The Puppy Wizard. <{}: ~ ) >
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:ojn220pi99cqavl79...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:34:20 -0500, "sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Bullshit. I have never heard that from any genuinely
knowledgable
> >> source.
> >
> > Then you simply haven't talked to very many genuine sources.
BTW, Lynn
> >agrees with me- do you consider her knowlegeable?
> >
> I consider Lynn to be one of the self-styled druids who would
like
> everyone to think dog-training is a profession or a high art
rather
> than something anyone can do with a modicum of study and
practice.
>
> But in any case, I'm not sure what Lynn agrees with you about,
> Spinach. She recommended a book on resource guarding by Jean
> Donaldson called "Mine!" and I just ordered it from
www.sitstay.com,
> an outfit that I have ordered from in the past with good
results.
> Here is an excerpt from a review of that book:
>
> >"Donaldson presents resource guarding as a normal, adaptive
> >behavior and rejects notions that resource guarders are not
'nice'
> >dogs or are 'dominant aggressive'. Instead, she focuses on a
> >behaviorist approach to conceptualizing and remediating such
behavior.
> >
> >"In a nutshell, this primarily involves classically
> >counter-conditioning a 'conditioned emotional response'
> >where an owner's approach is associated with high-value
> >food treats, rather than representing a threat of loss or
punishment.
>
> [i.e., don't just take the fucken toy away, matter-of-factly or
> otherwise]
>
> >Initially this is done in the presence of little provocation,
>
> [note that point well, please]
>
> >but incremental advances proceed until the dog can
> >happily be approached when in the presence of
> >whatever he formerly guarded most fiercely."
>
> This is entirely consistent with what I have read elsewhere and
it is
> consistent with what I have posted in this thread. It's not at
all
> consistent with the confrontational approach you and Janet Boss
> advocate.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:7jp220t7ueu35emvm...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 20:30:25 GMT, "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePupp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >She'll teach you HOWE to BRIBE the dog to TRUST...
>
> That's what it sounds like from the review.
You cannot BRIBE trust. Bribing dogs makes
them suspiciHOWES and PROVOKES SOME
DOGS TO BITE.
We're talking life or death here charlie, and
THAT'S HOWE COME The Puppy Wizard
is sorely disappointed in your efforts to
promote bribery to train dogs.
> I guess the only serious "resource guarder"
You mean UNTRUSTWORTHY dog.
Read "Praising Bad Behaviors Is Good."
professor SCRUFF SHAKE was
asstHOWENDED. It's a discussion with
a mom abHOWET her dog's "resource
guarding."
> I've dealt with is my tenant's old dog, who
> growls and snaps if anyone tries to take a bone
> or toy from him.
Dogs mostly grHOWEL at folks they KNOW well
and FEAR. Not that you'd NOTICE the dog FEARS,
but they do, you can tell by their GRHOWELING
and snapping.
We're not talking abHOWET FOOD, we're talkin
abHOWET TRUST, charlie. The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual TEACHES TRUST, charlie. THAT'S THE
ONLY CURE FOR ALL AGGRESSION.
> I merely call him over and hold out my hand and ask
> politely, and he hasn't yet failed to present me with the
> object.
Right. Cause you ASKED. Dogs DO NOT LIKE
to "follow commands." Giving commands makes
dogs OPPOSITIONAL. The Puppy Wizard SEZ
all "commands" gotta come accross in an even
tempered tone as a REQUEST so the dog doesn't
tell you to go frigg yourself, charlie.
> But, he and I have been good friends for years.
Yeah... FRIENDS don't HURT and INTIMDATE
FRIENDS. That's HOWE COME HOWER DOG
LOVERS MURDER THEIR BEST DOGS.
> Charlie
HOWEDY Eric,
"Eric" <ero...@mpacs.com> wrote in message
news:644525e9.04020...@posting.google.com...
>
> My family currently owns a five to seven year old
> labrador retreiver,
A dog is a dog, Eric. Breed and age doesn't matter.
> who constantly begs for food each dinner,
You can EXXXTINGUISH that in WON day.
> which quickly becomes irritating.
Then you won't be able to break the behavior
cause if the dog is IRRITATING YOU he's
GETTING REWARDED for his behavior.
> What are the best ways to stop this nuisiance?
Study your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and DO ALL the exercises and THEN
address the behavior problem and your dog
will naturally want to do every thing you ask,
and if he doesn't you'll have the METHODS
to MAKE HIM withHOWET force avoidance
bribes or confrontation
> How can I tell the rest of my family that
> feeding her even pieces of fat and chicken
> skin after the meal shouldn't be done?
You CAN'T, cause THAT ain't the problem.
The Puppy Wizard leaves EVERY THING
where HIS dogs can take it if they WANT,
and every time they TRY to TAKE IT HE
BRIEFLY and VARIABLY distracts and
priases their BAD BEHAVIOR for five to
fifteen seconds and allHOWES the dog
to RESUME HIS EFFORTS to steal the
weenie and CONTINUES the technique
till the dog has NO DESIRE for the behavior.
ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME.
The FASTEST way to MAKE a dog or child
DO sumthin BAD is to TRY TO STOP HIM
FROM DOIN IT.
When you SEE your dog abHOWET to steal
from the cHOWENTER, PRAISE HIM, and
he'll stop dead in his tracks. Then follow the
distraction and praise techniques to interrupt
his efforts till the behavior is MEANINGLES
through NON FULFILLMENT.
You've got to PRAISE BAD BEHAIVORS to
EXXXTINGUISH them pupperly. You MUST
NEVER say "NO!" cause that INCREASES
the VALUE of the object you're trying to keep
the dog away from.
THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER EXXXPERTS
can't train their own dogs not to eat poison or
steal food from the cHOWENTERS and garbage.
Taking away what the dog has STOLEN or PUNISHING
HIM for STEALIN the STUFF teaches him to DO the
behaviors as soon as you turn your back.
THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS
can't train their dogs not to ESCAPE their SHOCK
FENCES.
> Thanks
If you want to EXXXTINGUISH the behavior
you should do all the work in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and not
just rely on the distraction and praise techniques
cause THAT MIGHT FAIL if your dog thinks
you're using it as an AVERSIVE.
Aversives DON'T WORK.
THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER EXXXPERTS
can't train their dogs not to beg and bother them
when they've got STUFF to do. You cannot tell
your dog "NO!" cause THAT will make him WANT
to DO the inapupriate behaviors. You've got to
praise them IN ADVANCE and NEVER FORCE
or INTIMIDATE or THREATEN or INTIMIDATE
them cause the dog won't obey if you can't force him.
THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER EXXXPERTS
MURDER THEIR BEST DOGS, Eric.
NHOWE all that SHOULD be evident to you,
but if not, it WILL BE whenyou study your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manaul.
HOWEver, you gotta be WARNED, Eric. The Puppy
Wizard has PROVEN that most of the good people
on HOWER forums are ACTIVE INCURABLE
MENTAL PATIENTS LIARS COWARDS and DOG
ABUSERS.
They'll WARN you not to BUY The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Trainnig Method Manual.
They'll intentionally mislead and lie to you abHOWET
The Puppy Wizard and HIS FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual.
They'll WARN you that The Puppy Wizard is tryin to
SELL you HIS RIP OFF FRAUDULENT behavior
modification device.
IGNORE The Puppy Wizard's Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo
Or Two Did Too) Machine, Eric. DDR CURES ALL
behavior problems AUTOMAGICKALLY, NEARLY
INSTANTLY. But that's for folks who don't even own
their own dog, and for folks who WANT the VERY
BEST for their dogs.
STUDY your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and ask The Puppy Wizard if you need
any additional FREE heelp.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"misty" <Mom...@webtv.net wrote in message
news: 16990-3C...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
anyone here for her loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
idea that my using a shock collar could have any
bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running
off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
want to come back in the yard and would run for
days. The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer
cringes when we walk around the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I
hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
a regular fence then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep
my dog in our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
--------------------------------
The Puppy Wizard
Date: 2003-06-17 23:38:10 PST
HOWEDY People,
This post will cover most of what you never thought
of and MOORE than you already know about stuff...
> We have 3 children under age 13
> And a New Foundland/ Aussie Shep. mix.
Interesting X. I've never seen one of them
before, and I'm not big on "breed" issues,
but I just got to laugh at that picture I got
in my head of a Aussie runnin around in a
Newfie suit. I'm fallin outta my armchair
and my sides are splittin!!!
> We have had this dog for 1.5 years. She was a
> rescue and she was 7 wks old when we got her.
Fine. I prefer to see pups get into their new HOWSES
as soon as they're weaned. Many folk prefer to allow
the pups to stay with mom till twelve weeks or so, but
I've never seen a problem for pups who'd been "orphaned"
and into their family much earlier. My preference is six
weeks. But that's not addressing your questions.
> She is fixed and weighs 73 lbs.
My 40 years experience and some studies I recently
read indicates some aggression may be precipitated
by S/N. It's a hot button topic for many people, because
it's one of those things where "you're damned if you do
and damned if you don't." FWIW, according to Judaic
law, spaying would be appropriate, neutering would not.
There's other laws in their book about such issues as
muzzling working draft animals etc. Very interesting stuff.
> I believe that she has been at this weight for nearly a year.
Oh drat! You just burst my bubble! Now I can't laugh
about a Aussie dressed in a Newfie suit.
> She is extremely energetic
When I hear that, I think HYPERACTIVE. Hyperactivity
is caused by stress barring such outside influences
as toxins in the environment or malignancy of some sort.
Purdue recently did some stuff on OCD and determined
that stress percipiticpates OCD behaviors (Duh-Oh!). No
news to this trainer. That's HOWE COME it's SO EZ for
my students to break the anxiety SYNDROME and
rehabilitate their hyperactive dogs in a few days, maybe
less.
Thyroid problems could be involved there too, and I've got
a different take on that as well. I rather doubt the thyroid
or any system is likely to malfunction for no reason. I
believe that the constant on/off stress of ORDINARY
DAILY LIFE in an ORDINARY NORMAL HOWEShold,
is enough to push dogs, and some breeds more EZily
than other's over the edge, resulting in obsessive
compulsive behavior disorders like hyperactivity,
excessive chewing,barking, digging, pacing, HOWEling,
separation anxiety, self mutilation, fear of thunder, and
even most carsickness.
> and is really a sweet dog for the most part.
When I hear THAT, I don't wanna ask what's after
the most part...
> Our biggest problem is her attitude with our girls.
Bummer. I hate that. Scares the beejeesus outta me.
> She loves them one minute
Good, I'm relieved.
> and then for no apparent reason snarls at them.
Dogs don't do things for no reason. Do you know
what will provoke her? There's a commonality
between all behavior problems, so if you can think
of what when and where she'd had incidents in the
past, you might isolate the triggers, and then you're
half way done training her...
> I have been watching her intensely
Perhaps even just your scrutiny can be pressuring her.
Dogs are very sensitive critters, it doesn't take much
to throw them outta whack.
> and I can say without a doubt that none of our children
> have harmed the dog or scared her in any way.
Probably true, but that's the half of it also. I'll try to explain
later...
> She is extremely protective of food
Right. That sez to me, she's insecure. It's a survival
instinct. HOWE COME should she be insecure and
thinking of herself first, rather than "feedin the family,"
as a mom dog would do? Well, mom dogs do not,
they need to sustain themselves first, so they can take
care of the bigger picture, even if that means culling
her litter.
Greed is what it looks like, but dogs aren't capitalists,
so it's got to be something telling her there's not
enough to go around. Perhaps she's been teased with
treats or had rewards withheld? Dogs are scavengers.
They steal scraps of food and run to hide with their back
to the wall in a heightened state of alert.
Putting food or bribes into an untrusting dog's face
will likely make him think fight/flight/survive... so I
never use food bribes. Sure you can train animals
and slaves by withholding or treating with food, it's
the bottom line when you think about it. You'd need
a mighty big treat bag to control all the food in creation
Anything that takes precedence in your dog's mind
over you, is usurping your authority and diminishing
your dog's esteem for you.
> and once she has been given her food she will growl
> if anyone comes even remotely close.
Right. That sez to me she's not entirely trusting, that
something is concerning her that she's not SAFE.
AGGRESSION IS FEAR. We don't attack for no
reason, we attack to defend ourselves from a real
or perceived threat.
In looking for answers, I am not looking to make excuses
for the dog's behavior. I personally don't care HOWE COME
the dog does something, I deal with the whole problem from
another perspective entirely, and many of these insecurity
issues will be AUTOMAGICKALLY CURED, just by removing
the inconsistencies and stressors in her daily life.
Whoever said "it's a dogs life," never put on the hat...
Dogs are just as sensitive about family tensions like children
squabbling and parents correcting them or the dog, for
whatever. LOOK at HOWE many times a day you probably
have to say STOP THAT! and correct all of them? At bedtime
the kids may give you the standard bedtime runaround, a kid
falling and crying about it can make the dog nervous, anything
goes.
> She won't do that with me
Hmmm. That makes me very suspicious. I like CONSISTENCY.
Even if it's bad. But that may be good too, cause it could give
us some insight into what's goin down here.
> but if someone else walks by she will growl even if
> they are in the other direction.
By 'someone else,' you mean the kids, anybody else
or everybody else? That too, may give some insight
as to what's cookin.
> Her snarling at the girls is in no way related to food.
Hmmm. She's OK with the kids and food? That's got
my antennae up. I believe you're sayin she's SAFE
with the girls passing her while eating. THAT makes
me very happy, if that's correct. At least about the
food issue but it offsets itself with the dichotomy
of her incidents with the kids. There's too many
inconsistencies, and that's gonna tell us what's
the problem, I think.
> And there is no one thing that sets her off.
Good. Tell us what you know of will set her off,
and we can figure out what's upsettin her and
HOWE to break the response.
> One minute she is happy and playing and the other
> she will snarl if they walk by.
That doesn't give me a clear picture. Again, if
you can predict when a behavior will happen,
we can set it up to break or extinguish it, if
it's still a problem after we do some simple
preliminary conditioning exercises.
> It is as if she doesn't respect them.
Forget respect. FEAR. Something concerns her,
it's not disrespect.
> I should mention that the possibility of me meeting a
> dog behaviorist
You just did.
> is nil due to the fact we live in a remote part of Alaska,
No problem.
> accessible only by air.
Likewise. I do all my work from sittin right here stark
ravin nekkid.
> Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.
I'm wondering if you've done any training with her
and if so, HOWE was she trained. The fact she does
not growl at YOU when you're near her food is probably
not because it's you who gave her the food.
That she doesn't growl at the kids around the food,
makes me wonder if she's ever been corrected for
'food guarding' with the children.
That could explain HOWE COME she won't growl at
them near the food, but will in other situations particularly
play, concerns me, but in a GOOD way. That's displaced
aggression, I expect. That's cause by repressing behaviors.
My methods use alternately variable distractions and
prolonged non physical praise to extinguish the reflexive
behavior through triggerin and non fulfillment, not by ever
offering REPLACEMENT or alternate behaviors, because
THAT disavails us of training opportunities and leaves the
problem behavior intact, waitin on the whim of the dog.
That suggests to me that she may be reacting to
an incident perhaps long ago where she or the kids
had been scolded or corrected for roudy play? That's
called superstitious or flashback behavior, whereby
a former incident is thought of by a similar circumstance
and the dog simple flashes back to that former state
of mind and isn't even thinkin of the present, and usually
ends pretty quickly, soon as he realizes this is a different
time and place.
All we got to do is play with that thought a few times if
everything else is in order, and the dog will quickly override
his BOOGEYMAN...
The food guarding is not against the children, is that correct?
Perhaps I'm a little unclear on the scenario. I think you're
saying she's fine with you and the kids around the food, the
food being an issue for other family members, visitors etc?
Has she ever had an incident of growling at you? If so,
when, where, and HOWE did you respond to it. Also,
HOWE do you currently respond to her incidents with
the kids now and HOWE often does this happen?
Do you give her treats? Will she 'go off' around a
treat or only AT her food bowl, and is she OK with
your children around their food and do the children
give her treats and is she OK with that?
Finally, do you crate her? If so, does she go to her crate
on her own? If so, that too, can be causing or exacerbating
these issues. Crating can cause a lot of problems for
insecurity. Because the crate becomes a safe haven for
her, kinda like hiding under the covers from the boogeyman,
when the door opens, it's like havin to get outta bed in the
dark to go to the toilet... SCARY!!! You might crawl over
the bed to get close the light and then run and jump to
hit the switch before the monster under the bed can get
your by your ankles.
Those answers will give us a better idea of exactly
HOWE COME the dog is growling. But after all is
said, it still doesn't matter to me except as a curiosity.
We'll fix this behavior problem EZ, I'm certain.
She doesn't sound too scary to me now that we've
looked at what she's doing. In fact, and please
correct me if I misunderstood, she's ONLY staring
and growling and showing some teeth? She's never
tried to assault the kids, right?
What do you feed and are you using any chemicals
around her like floor cleaners containing phenols? I ask
about food because some contain BHA, BHT, ETHOXYQUIN,
or propylene glycol as preservatives and they're suspect
of causing some hyperactive like behavior.
You might break the food guarding malarkey by simply
moving the dish to another location, preferably a neutral
area. IOW, take her out of the environment in which
she's accustomed to having incidents, and desensitize
her there.
But don't start messin with that stuff till you know
HOWE to handle it just in case she should go off
when you try testing it out. Besides, after an hour
of training that food thing will probably disappear
on it's own, just from the basic conditioning exercises.
You might try taking her dinner bowl in hand and
slowly walking her around while eating and making
passes by other folks. But not yet, you got a little
study to do and some practice... about two hours
work. Must be COLD out there.
Lets get the lesson plan in mind so you'll have your
wits about you if she should growl so we don't lose
an opportunity to address an incident should she growl,
because doin so in new environment would make it
that much easier to break, due to the change of environ.
Same question goes for the growling. Is that a generalized
behavior or does she only do it say, in the living room
or only inside the HOWES, will she growl if they're playin
outside.
Does she growl ONLY when she's in play? That
could be VERY telling. Does she growl when she
is NOT ALREADY EXCITED PLAYING (besides
at the food bowl, I'm over that)? If so, that's the
problem, BUT, that still leaves the question of
WHO does she growl at around food? That too
could tie up another loose end.
Does she always / sometimes / not often come to
the kids when they call her? Will she always come
to you when you call? Is she walked on leash often,
and is she well behaved or is it a struggle, and what
kind of collar do you use. Even though you're not
writing about an on leash problem, we're still gonna
need to work her on lead and longe line for the initial
conditioning exercises.
> Sincerely,
The program I teach begins by stopping all negative
or corrective responses and interactions with her. That
includes scolding the children, because that may be
what provokes her to growl. That's called allelomimetic
behavior. IOW, if you scold the kids for jumpin on the
sofa, the dog will copy your action and attitudes and
likewise correct them.
Sibling rivalry is not caused by siblings, is cause by
mishandling. Scolding one peer in front of the others
causes animosity towards the others whom the subject
was scolded in front of. That causes 2 things to happen.
The scolded party gets embarrasses and assaults
the observers of the scolding, or the observers copy
the disciplinarian, and likewise scold the subject.
Catch22.
HOWE are we gonna control three kid critters and
one Aussie runnin around in a midget Newfie suit???
Could take three juvenile detention and one AC
officers 24/8 to throw down on them when they get
goin like kids will do.
I'm pretty EZ going, but I require strict discipline. I
can't have a child interrupting me while I'm doin this
and have my dogs going kookamunga while I'm
trying to teach someone on the phone HOWE
to control their dog's barking, for example.
NOW I'd be curious about the ages of the kids
"children under age 13," cause if there's things like
hyperactive or disabled children or autistic kids or
an infant who'd maybe cry or have seizures or
whatever that could upset the dog.
I'm not lookin for excuses to mitigate her behavior, just
to understand it better so's we're lookin at the facts
of the matter based on what is happening Vs feelings
about HOWE whatever we may emotionally feel about
stuff.
We want to back away from the micro aspects
of the behavior so we can take in the big picture
and then we can see what parts don't fit, and figure
out what to do to remedy the etiology rather than
fightin symptoms of the problem, because as we
repress symptoms, they change, to other, often
worse, seemingly non related behaviors as
trainsfer or replacement behaviors.
That's HOWE COME so many dogs go through
every behavior problem in the book before simply
runnin outa behavior problems that haven't already
been repressed.
Think about it. As we repress all the normal puppy
behaviors we make the pup nervous cause he's only
a animal. They cannot know right from wrong, only
what's nice and what's not. They're not a human child,
they cannot understand BAD.
Dogs do not DO, BAD, dogs only do dog, and of curse,
they also copy us. As the dog matures to 8-9 months
they go through their 'adolescent rebellious' stage (Scott
&Fuller). HOWE can a dog have a rebellious stage if
there's nothing to REBEL AGAINST? Well, he still
has not run through all the behavior problems he can
be provoked into, so when he's maturing as a teenager
and trying for more freedom, we become more repressive
because the dog is out of hand, and there goes the shootin
match.
My student's dogs do not go through that because we
never have a negative or forced interaction with them,
we NEVER tell them NO or INSIST on a command,
because THAT triggers the opposition reflex and makes
the dog rebel.
Our dogs are eager to work because we PRAISE IN
ADVANCE, with the command, all in one breath not
after the dog has finished doin his behavior. Dogs do
not work for credit. By the time the dog comes to
you when called, he's not longer thinking of the
command.
Dogs respond in predictable, instinctive, reflexive, ways,
to situations and circumstances of their environment
which we provide for them. That means we can change
or control the environment to set the dog up to perform
as predicted, and know when to do what you've planned
in advance, to properly trigger / distract / praise / trigger /
distract / praise the behavior till it's extinguished, MUCH
LIKE FLOODING, but not quite... Or, we may use traditional
flooding techniques with distraction / praise to extinguish
behaviors.
Before addressing behavior problems we condition the
dog to praise with every brief eye contact and learn
HOWE to handle the lead so we're not pulling on the
collar and triggering the dog or hyping him up for
a random outburst. Proper leash handling techniques
insures safety and teaches the dog gentleness and
conditions them to respond to our praise, as it entices
the dog in and settles him down in just a few minutes.
It's kinda like Dr. Ian Dunbar's "make like a tree," but
not really anything at all quite like it. They just look similar
at first glance. The Hot & Cold Exercise is like the kid's
game "gettin hotter gettin colder" with the dog's attention
and body as we stand and handle the lead properly to
get the feel for it and reassure the dogs we ain't gonna
be pullin no more on them.
After a few minutes the dog will be hangin out waitin
for you to do something, then you're ready to go into
the Family Leadership Exercise where we very subtly
work the dog in a conditioning routine we'll rely on for
other situations and begin to install the come command
as a conditioned reflex.
That usually takes my students about one hour, often less,
very rarely four hours, but that'd get a perfect recall on
the most difficult critter. Once we've got that dog willing to
work with us we can begin to break his behavior problems
using variable distractions and praise techniques.
Using praise in advance relaxes the dog and encourages
him. For training, isn't that all we need?
Praising BAD BEHAVIORS is GOOD. If your dog were
boltin out the door, it's not "NO! STOP!," it's GOOD
GIRL NICEDOG YOU'RE A GOOOOD FELLA!!.
The dog ain't goin NOWHERE except come back over
to you. Might even ask if he wants to go to the park.
Sure he wants to but you don't. Who cares? He's only
a DOG. Tell him you're gonna put your shoes on to
go but it'll be a minit. Dogs like kids FORGET in a
minute... Tomorrow when you ARE going to the
park, tell him you're goin cause you PROMISED him
yesterday, and now it's time. They'll think you're the
kat's pajamas for bein the greatest mom/dad in the
whole wild world.
Dogs and kids just wanna have fun. Therefore my dogs
never see me frown on them. NO MATTER WHAT. I
never tell them NO or DON'T, or physically reach to
restrain them, partly because THAT would trigger the
opposition reflex and compel the dog to "outstep me"
and rush the door or eat the steak or whatever AND
teach the dog that doin THAT, will command 100%
of your undivided attention...
That's HOWE COME proper understanding of the
methods and developing the feel for leash handling
is imperative, so's we don't sabotage ourselves by
reacting to our own fears of dangerous situations
we're gonna work through in a few minutes if you
can refrain yourself from saying NO DON'T! and
pullin the lead to force control.
Of course I know that your dog isn't having leash
problems, but it fits here...
Our dogs naturally want to do everything they're asked,
cause just like kids, dogs just wanna have fun.
Your Puppy Wizard. <YPW;~}
----- Original Message -----
From: <n>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
> Hi Jerry,
> When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
> for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
> Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
> for 3 years.
> It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
> with him.
> Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
> when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
> It really does work. He was very confused at first,
> wondering what he had done to get the praise.
> But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
> whatever he may have going through his brain when
> he hears it.
> Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
> the Doggy do Right, etc.
> Thanks,
> N
==================
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.
I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY ass
lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.
A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
==========================
Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43bl...@corp.supernews.com
Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.
I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.
Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.
Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought
her home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive
(except with her area/toys where she was possessive and
nippy).
She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!
Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry or that
the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources. In my
opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad. Works for me.
(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry personally.
I've emailed him and instant messaged him. I have not bought a
"Doggy Do Right". He's offered help for free.)
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: mi...@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227
======================
"Hoku Beltz" <ho...@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message
news:SN2k9.45447$V7.10...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Aloha Sunny,
> Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
> insignificant some of the step seem to be and your puppy will
> be a very well behaved dog in a few days.
> I would seriously consider backing out of the training
> classes as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.
> I went the training route first, and still had problems until
> I found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
> You won't be disappointed if you follow the program.
> Good luck,
> Hoku
==================
----- Original Message -----
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
==================
Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
E-mail: ThePupp...@EarthLink.Net
http://www.doggydoright.com
The Puppy Wizard
"John F Richardson" <jfrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040204183341...@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Charlie writes:
>
> >Hmmm. I don't like to think of myself
> >as a one-path type person.
Yeah. All except for WON SMALL PROBLEM.
There's ONLY WON METHOD that WORKS
on all dogs and you and your pals DENY IT
cause it PROVES you're DOG ABUSERS.
> What you "like to think" doesn't matter.
RIGHT. That's HOWE COME you can't
post here abHOWETS noMOORE, dog
abuser.
> >Lately, I have been reading a lot of
> >dog-training books, and most of
> >them seem to be pretty consistent
> >in the approach they line out.
Yeah. BRIBE and AVOID.
> > Not "one true path,"
Dog trainin ain't LUCK. If a trainer
ain't gettin 100% NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS withHOWET HURTIN
and BRIBING dogs they're FRAUDS.
> > but a lot of experienced people who agree
> > on what does and doesn't work.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Puppy Wizard
came here to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and
DISCREDIT the FRAUDS in this business.
> > What they say is not at all consistent
> > with what the self-styled experts around here
> > tend to advocate.
RIGHT. Yet DESPITE THAT, the expert advice
ain't CONSISTENT with The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual... and THAT gets 100% NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS.
> (a) There is a lot of variation in the approaches
> of published authors.
BWEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
THAT'S CAUSE THEY'RE FRAUDS.
Like yourself, johnny.
> (b) What makes you assume that the expertise
> of any given published author is something other
> than "self-styled"?
That's a IDIOTIC question word weasel.
What difference does that make?
> >If you can successfully use intimidation or
> >dominance to make aggressive dogs
> > behave, that's great.
Yeah. BUT IT GETS SOME DOGS DEAD.
We've got a VERY LONG HISTORY of
DEAD DOGS we've ENTERTRAINED
TO DEATH right here, johnny, thanks
to you and your MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD
PALS.
> > My experience with that
> >approach has been dismal.
As articulated in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
> Ah, the old "argument from personal ineptitude"...
No punk, from DATA. CASE HISTORIES like
kwbrown's and her DEAD DOG Teena and
Robert Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz and tara o.
aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer.
The list could go on and on. Ask ed w of PET
LOSS dot COIN. THAT'S HOWE COME he's
so eager to WARN folks not to believe The
Puppy Wizard, johnny.
> Utterly invalid by any reasonable measure,
WE GOT DATA. CASE HISTORIES, you maggot.
> but always worth a snicker.
Well johnny, you can snicker on your own
PRIVATE LIST. Get the heel HOWETA
The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Forum you
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward.
> Entertainment value IS still value...
Entertrain yourself elsewhere.
> Anyway,
You mean anyHOWE. Don't you, johnny.
> I have indeed intimidated some dangerously
> out of control dogs into backing off their dangerous
> behavior over the years,
That comes natural to a DOG ABUSER, johnny.
> but the sort of dog I actually had in mind
> when I wrote my prior post
The Puppy Wizard hasn't replied to your pryor
post yet, johnny. The REASON you have PROBLEM
DOGS that can't be placed is cause you're a DOG
ABUSER.
> is night-and-day different with handlers
CAUSE YOU GOT NO MEHTOD OTHER
THAN PAIN FEAR FORCE AND INTIMIDATION.
> he does versus does not respect.
RESPECT????
You're a DOG ABUSER, johnny.
> But, intimidated?
That so? HOWE do you know the dog
RESPECTs Vs that IT is INTIMIDATED,
especially when the dog gives INCONSISTENT
RESPONSES to different handlers BASED ON
RESPECT?
BWEEHEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Not a chance.
You and your lying dog abusing punk thug coward
pals can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.
> JohnR
Human Nature - Shame, Fear, And Guilt -
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
Date: 2003-08-26 09:57:34 PST
HOWEDY jonathan,
"Jonathan" <nos...@mymail.com> wrote in message
news:Yqo2b.1347$O57.4...@wards.force9.net...
> >
> > Thalador Du'Fosnee wrote:
> >
> > > I will not quote everything. I will ask this.. What
> > > is all the HOWE stuff? Can you point me to the site with
> > > the wits end training you spoke of? I am not a fan of
> > > crating myself, but that is what my trainer and many
> > > others I spoke to suggested. If there is a better way,
> > > point it out, there is no need to get nasty about it.
>
> Unfortunately, nasty is all they do!
Oh, well perhaps that's on accHOWENT of what we got
here are mostly LIARS, DOG ABUSERS, MENTAL CASES,
and FRAUDS, like yourself, jonathan.
> My first post got me labeled as a Liar, a nutter, dog
> abuser, a cheat-
Well jonathan, that's on accHOWENT of the NATURE
of your own dog's behavior problems and HOWE you
"handled" it and HOWE you OBJECTED when The
Puppy Wizard INFORMED YOU that YOU was THE
CAUSE of your dog's DESTRUCTIVE ANXIETY
BEHAVIOR, and to CORRECT the situation, you'd
NEED to STOP ABUSING YOUR DOG over his negative attention getting
devices he's employing against you...
Here's HOWE that works:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog
won't tell on you...
"With him, words play no torturing tricks
.........., " John Galsworthy.
Their behaviors reflect our words, actions
and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The
Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> can't remember what else.
You could look up the original post, forever
inscribed in The Puppy Wizard's Archives,
jonathan... if you wanna be accurate.
HOWEver, The Puppy Wizard KNOWS
what else:
"If You Talk With The Animals, They Will
Talk With You And You Will Know Each
Other. If You Do Not Talk To Them, You
Will Not know Them,
And What You Do Not Know
You Will Fear.
What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief
Dan George, adapted with permission
from his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual.
> > Jerry Howe is revolutionary paradigm shifting/Muzzle
> > Changing force in the dog game whose importance
> > cannot be underestimated.
>
> <Snip> his training method revolves around lobbing
> a beer can
The Puppy Wizard recommends not using beer in
the presence of DUMB ANIMALS or in the presence
of impressionable children.
A sHOWEND is a sHOWEND, jonathan.
ANY SHOWEND, so long as it is brief, alternately
variable and instantly followed by prolonged non
physical praise, will suffice, even an extraneHOWES sHOWEND, like
a neighbor startin their car or closing
a door or the A/C switchin off or on, given the appupriate
TIMING, will INSTANTLY break the dog's THOUGHTS
of the undesirable behavior or focus the thought on
the command you're working the process on IF you lock
his thoughts on that distractin with prolonged non physical
praise.
> in the air to make a 'clunk' on the moment of
> issue of a command.
And instantly following the sHOWEND with prolonged,
non physical praise. THAT'S YOUR OBJECTION. You
cannot fathom PRAISING a dog when IT is DOIN BAD
THINGS, jonathan. Perhaps that's because of your
misguided ineffective inappupriate practice of Eastern
philosophies?
> For my dog, that turned a command 'good boy Harry
> COME<clunk> good boy" into "Good boy, wow, I
> haven't done anything" "COME. why- I'm a good boy
> for not coming!" CLUNK! - Hey wow, cool, no more
> command stuff, great- lets play kill the beer can and
> cut my mouth!"
BWEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
Perhaps THAT explains your miserable failure as
chi gnong student and reiki "master," eh johnny???
YOU NEVER FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS
NOR HAD YOU DONE THE PRELIMINARY CONDITIONING, cause you're a LAZY
STUPID IGNORANT student and
miserable forceful fear ridden animal abuser and fraud.
> Net result- dog association of "Come" with "I don't
> need to come 'cause I'm praised for staying where I am,
That's on accHOWENT of you NEVER STUDIED the
METHOD. You only picked through it to find what could
FORCE your dog to OBEY you, jonathan.
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
========================
> and cool, we are going to play kill the beer can
> now instead of me having to Come like I used to".
If he COMES you don't MAKE a sHOWEND.
Unless he comes like he USED TO and that's
HOWE COME you're TRAININ HIM NHOWE.
Perhaps you'd of been able to UNDERSTAND
the SCIENTIFIC METHOD and PRINCIPLES
had you not emptied four beer cans dHOWEN
your goddamned gullet instead of STUDYING
the PROVEN EFFECTIVE Techniques.
> > Because if Jerry is right, much of what our
> > "experts" have stood for,
IS PROVEN DEAD WRONG.
> - Ah, OK, so you do nothing of any value in the real
> world (Jerry hasn't left the house in 5 years-
Woulda been awful time consuming to travel the
Whole Wild World in the flesh, jonathan. That's
HOWE COME The Puppy Wizard works almost
exclusively here in CYBERSPACE, on the
INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY, thanks to
former V.P., Al Gore.
Thanks Al!
> yet is a glowing example of kindness to animals?),
You mean, by assaulting them with beer cans, jonathan?
> and criticize those who spend all their free time helping
> out in rescue centers etc.-
Like your pals here who MURDER shelter
dogs cause they FEAR THEM cause they
do THIS to them?:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a
>> biter as fast as anyone" yet claims
>> to be a saintly dog rescuer
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed >>every
adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
>>condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people
>>who had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K. --------------------------------------
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of beautiful
labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe you'd be singing
a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and put their
bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer for the trash
company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
> I.e. trying to HELP rather than sitting naked in front of a
> PC wearing paper slippers abusing every newcomer onto the
> group? Interesting animal love...
You're a FRAUD, johnny, as are your pals here
who HURT and KILL dogs and call THAT, RESCUE:
"If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With
You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not
Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What
You Do Not Know You Will Fear.
What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George,
adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'End Dog Training
Method Manual.
> > Just ask Lynn KILLmakos about all the dogs she
> > has killed because they failed her terrorizing
> >"evaluations." Moore on her later.
>
> Are you sure you aren't yet another Jerry fantasy poster?
You can't post here noMOORE, you charlatan. Let's
discuss your impuper practice of reiki? Let's talk
abHOWET you impupper practice of Eastern Martial
Arts, mr. EXXXPERT?
You're a FRAUD and an abuser, PUNK.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.SAME SAME
SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior
BUSINESS.
A Dog Is A Dog As A Child Is A Child. They
Respond In Predictable Innate, Normal,
Natural, Instinctive, Reflexive, Ways, To
Circumstances And Situations Of Their
Environments Which We Create For Them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean
War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By
HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK
What We TAUGHT.
> You have all the same references obviously
> filed to slander anyone you dislike-
The Puppy Wizard can only SLANDER YOU
WITH YOUR OWN WORDS, CHARLATAN.
> and exactly the same dislikes as the wizened one himself-
Yeah. Soup DISLIKES animal abusers and LIARS,
like yourself, johnny.
> with the same way of expressing them.
Let's talk abHOWET abusing your dog, oh masterful WON?
> You also cross post to precisely the same
> (disinterested!) list as he does.
They're not disinterested, they're frightened
embarrassed little lying dog abusing punk
thug cowards, like yourself, you FRAUD.
> Perhaps you just went to the same charm school as he did?
Perhaps you're just a coward and a liar and a dog abuser?
> >They are a mindless mob with no moral center,
That's HOWE COME they LIE abHOWET The
Puppy Wizard's PROVEN EFFECTIVE METHODS
and VERIFIABLE Student's TESTIMONIALS, eh
jonathan?
Perhaps you should oughta quit drinkin beers,
that'll improve your SKILLS as a practicioner of
chi gnong and reiki?
> > and in the center of their centerless morass of sin and
> > unrepentency and iniquity is Dimpled Chad, an unlucky
> > dupe of a Theology student, who took it upon himself to
> > be the Chief Misinformationist Christian in the Opposition
> > Party.
The same same same same PARTY johnny boy has joined.
> > Chad and his friends don't care about the truth.
Perhaps that's the fault of jonathan's un-G-DLY practices?
> > They only care about protecting themselves and their
> > friends and their unraveling reputations from the TRUTH
> > Jerry speaks.
INDEEDY .
> > It is not the lies they fear and hate. It's the _truth_
> > which really bothers them.
INDEEDY.
> So why do newcomers to the group,
You mean, HOWE COME.
> with no vested interest in dog behaviourology (I.e. me)
Right. You came here cause your dog IS
DESTROYING YOUR HOWES cause
YOU PUNISH HIM.
> suss him & killfile him in record time?
Oh, that's EZ, oh FRAUDULENT praticioner
of Ancient Eastern Arts.
Your dog's BEHAVIOR tells the tale on you, jonathan.
Your repsonses to your DUMB ANIMAL was to HURT
and INTIMIDATE IT, like you'd try to do with your "study"
of martial arts.
> What is the motivational factor,
You are like Adam in the Garden, HIDING YOUR SHAME.
> which applies across cultural, educational
> and geographic divides
INDEEDY. It's a psychological and medical
condition, called The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
YOU GOT IT, BIG TIME, johnny boy.
> which makes people immediately find Jerry
> distasteful, ignorant and rude,
For EXXXPOSING YOU of YOUR NEKKEDNESS
to your ego, johnny boy. It's your HUMAN NATURE,
johnny. In a NORMALhuman being, it's called
ENLIGHTENMENT, johnny.
You are nHOWE experiencing the psychotic
reaction that MAN has been experiencing since
blaming woman who blamed the snake for
enticing him to BREAK THE LAW, the only
WON rule, HE had requested for Adam, in
the garden.
You are attempting to HIDE your COWARDICE,
but only from yourself.
You'll be a fine example of the DIS-EASE mankind
has suffered which has brought us to WWIII.
> and his claims contradictory (E.g. sweeping denial that
> anyone with an education has any knowledge,
You mean, the LIARS and DOG ABUSERS like
professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM "SCRUFF
SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for 5
seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minuted
meditation" dermer of the department of ANAL-ytic
behaviorISM at UofWI and his peers in the veterinary behaviorISM
BUSINESS?
> sweeping dismissal of all universities as dog abusers,
No, not all. Well, perhaps all... but mosty just the
most well known, those who do the most harm.
If you RESPECT those FRAUDS as experts,
HOWE COME you never got your own dog's
behaviors under control, johnny?
Is it on accHOWENT of you're a LAZY student,
or is it on accHOWENT of you're a dog abuser
and liar, EXTRODINAIRE?
> then quoting research from these self same
> universities as un-arguable proof!).
That's the hallmark of a coward and liar, and a
MENTAL CASE, johnny boy.
As Professora Daniel has stated, her dog Sunshine
was CURED of aggression and OCD behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY, for FREE, simply by doin every
thing OPPOSITE of what she'd been taught by dra mcconnell and
Purdue and and several of the most capable professional
trainers, highly recommended by veterinarians and behaviorists,
she could find in two states at a cost of two years work and
$5,000.00 CASH.
The Puppy Wizard does not fear mental illiness, it's
only a symptom of MISHANDLING, unless there's a
physical cause like brain tumors.
Bio chemical "causes" of mental illness are likeWIZE
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING and deficiencies in diet,
as recently discovered at UofOH in their research into
interluken-6 and STRESS and physical breakdHOWEN,
or in HOWER case, as The Puppy Wizard likes to call it:
BEING JERRYIZED, a other physical cause of PHYSICAL DEBILTIATION,
HYSTERIA, and DEATH.
You'd better get HEELED, jonathan. You're SUFFERING
a LIFE THREATENING SELF INFLICTED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE, johnny boy.
It's called, your human ego, johnny. That's HOWE COME
you're crappin yourself right nHOWE.
> > It's the TRUTH that bothers Sara Sionnach
>
> <Snip>
> Change the Jerry record dude,
The Puppy Wizard has come here to IDENTIFY, EXXXPOSE,
DISCREDIT, and DISPATCH, the scourge of MANKIND... his human
nature that YOU HIDE FROM nHOWE, jonathan.
> no newcomer to the group is particularly interested in your
> storm in a teacup or list of people that don't like you.
Hmmm. Seems to have CAPTIVATED you, jonathan.
Most of your posts have been your obsessive compulsive psychotic
response to The Puppy Wizard IDENTIFYING
and EXXXPOSING YOU, as the PUNK THUG COWARD
FRAUD you really are, jonathan.
> > It's the TRUTH that bothers just about anyone who gets
> > up in arms about Jerry Howe.
INDEEDY.
> Oh- so being called a murderer, liar, swindler, dog abuser,
And havin it PROVEN by your own words, jonathan..., is
what's caused you to arrive at YOUR PSYCHOTIC VISCERAL RESPONSE,
culminating in,The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME...
I.e., YOU BEEN JERRYIZED.
> and generally being raved at by one of cyber space's
> sadder incarnations has nothing to do with it.
You're having a typical BREAKDHOWEN, jonathan.
That's part of the HEELING process, if you follow the
method.
> I do love,
NO. That's a other LIE. You HIDE behind "universal love" to
make your EGO feel like you've risen above your HUMAN NATURE which
The Puppy Wizard has EXXXPOSED to you, causing your PSYCHOSIS,
called The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> howevr, the paranoid catch all- anyone that doesn't agree
> with me & my mate, well, they are just nutters & vermin...
The EVIDENCE is in The Puppy Wizard's Archives, jonathan.
Your own posting history will verify that.
> So what is this 'trigger' that sets these people off -
Simple, jonathan. Like Adam hiding in the garden from his
shame and guilt, it's the same same same same.
> all over the world-
It's the NATURE of MAN, jonathan. Perhaps you should study
your eastern philosopies MOORE SERIHOWESLY, jonathan. The Puppy
Wizard DETESTS a LAZY student almost as much as HE DESPIZES a LIAR
and FRAUD, oh masterful WON.
> to spontaneously revolt against his regurgitations of hate,
> then?
Think SHAME, GUILT, and FEAR, jonathan. The same same same same
FEELINGS that made Adam HIDE his nekkedness, just as YOU HIDE your
nekkedness here, on The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Forum, johnny boy.
> Some pretty askew magic that he has got going there.
INDEEDY, jonathan. That MAGICK will be in the medical
textbooks in the not too distant future, with The Puppy
Wizard's name next to it as the WON who CURED your HUMAN
NATURE of your inherent EVIL, and RID the Whole Wild World of the
likes of you and your ilk from spreading your cancer to
the next generation, jonathan.
The Puppy Wizard is droppin the hammer on liars and abusers
all over the Whole Wild World. The ARCHIVES NEVER LIE.
> (If he is interested in magic, then perhaps he needs go
> revise the rule of threes... ;-) )
The Puppy Wizard MAKES the RULES, jonathan.
> > If there were a Martin Luther King or a Gandhi for dogs,
> > Jerry would be it. Make no mistake, he's no Gandhi for
> > trainers or for dog abusers or LIARS or "rescuers" or vets
> > or anyone else with a serious stake in the Dog Game as it
> > is.
INDEEDY.
> Twat.
My, you do have a way with words and thought, eh johnny boy?
> Ghandi spent years walking, working, doing out there with
> the masses.
The Puppy Wizard has spent forty sumpthin years doin likeWIZE.
Ghandi was WON of The Puppy Wizard's most dedicated yet least
successful students, because he didn't understand the nature of
FEAR and GUILT.
He let you and your ilk off the hook:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be
judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas Gandhi
-- Adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual. <}TPW ;~ ) >
Would jonathan care to EXXXPLAIN HOWE he
treats his dog, johnny boy?
> When the puppy wizard walks 250 miles with thousands of
> people following him, to take on (head on) the largest
> empire of the moment then he can start approaching that
> claim.
BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENING, you miserable sot.
That's HOWE COME you're SHITTIN YOURSELF
RIGHT NHOWE!!!
> For someone who hasn't left the house in 5 years to
To work CURING and HEELING all behavior problems, 24/7, from the
tollbooth of the INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY.
> even be thought of like that beggars belief.
Let's talk abHOWE HOWE you ABUSE YOUR DOG, johnny?
> PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, MR
> WIZARD- TAKE OT ON THE ROAD- PUT UP OR
> SHUT UP!
The Puppy Wizard has PROVEN HIS work, jonathan.
> > To many of them, he's the Grim Freakin' Reaper.
INDEEDY.
> No he isn't he is an entry in a kill-file, and an
> object of pity.
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
HOWE THEN, do you explain your OBSESSION
with The Puppy Wizard, jonathan?
> > Yes, although JERRY'S not quite as peaceful and
> > personable as MARTIN and MAHATMA (at least to
> > LIARS AND DOG ABUSERS AND DOG KILLERS),
The Puppy Wizard does not entertrain or pander to, ABUSERS.
> > the victims of oppression and violence and
> > tyranny and death (in this case, dogs)
And helpless children, who cannot speak for or
defend themselves.
> > don't much care about that.
INDEEDY.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS FAILURE
MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME SAME, For The
Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
A Dog Is A Dog As A Child Is A Child. They Respond In
Predictable Innate, Normal, Natural, Instinctive, Reflexive,
Ways, To Circumstances And Situations Of Their
Environments Which We Create For Them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
> > ya HEARD!?
INDEEDY. jonathan is amongst the first to HEAR.
> > Welcome to the New Muzzle.
Thank you, Soup.
> > I'll be your host.
The Puppy Wizard is grateful to you, Soup.
> Bet, actually, that your superb people skills have probably
> put him off the entire group by now! ;-)
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action as
separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he enjoys the
fruit of both. The level which is reached by wisdom is
attained through right action as well. He who perceives that
the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature, indeed
all creatures act according to their natures. What is the use
of compulsion then? The love and hate which are aroused by the
objects of sense arise from Nature, do not yield to them. They
only obstruct the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna
with permission from His FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> Good luck,
Dog trainin ain't LUCK, johnny boy. "LUCK is for
SUCKERS," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> J.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is
ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is
accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
> > this is michael reporting live... from the new muzzle of
> > dog training http://dogtv.com
Force training JERRYIZES dogs and children and
GETS THEM DEAD.
Every correction is like our dog lovers seeing a new
post from Jerry and every minute of crate anxiety is
like reading another "thanks Jerry, your method/machine
saved my dog's life" post from The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students...
Now you know HOWE COME professor scruff shake's
little dog masturbates compulsively on his couch if he
doesn't get his five miles of road work every day and is
nHOWE DYING of STRESS RELATED PHYSICAL DEBILITIES.
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
If the cup is half full or half empty, it doesn't matter as
much as the sound of one hand clapping.
When Mamiya went to the priest for personal guidance,
he was asked to explain the sound of one hand clapping. Mamiya
concentrated on what the sound might be.
"You are not working hard enough. You are too attached to
food, wealth, and to that sound. It would be better if you
died. That would solve the problem."
The next time Mamiya appeared before his teacher,
he again was asked what he had to show regarding
the sound of one hand.
Mamiya immediately fell over as though dead.
"You are dead, all right, but how about that sound?"
Looking up, Mamiya replied: "I haven't solved that yet."
"Dead men don't speak, get out!," Shakumuni Buddah,
adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect synergy
of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego, fear, hate,
arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, embarrassment, shame, permanence,
enlightenment, insult, attrition and conditioning creating
adversion, a lowly life condition often expiring from stress
related health DIS-EASES as EVIDENCED by the
disproportionately high incidences of DEATHLY and
CHRONICALLY ILL dogs like professor "SCRUFF SHAKE
and SCREAM 'NO!' into ITS face for 5 seconds and lock IT
in a box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer of the depaertment
of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI's Maxie
The Magnificently FuriHOWESLY Obsessive Compulsive
Masturbator, and PROVEN through professor SCRUFF SHAKE'S CURE of
his dog's recurrent DIS-EASE, right
here on The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Forum.
Sit dHOWEN, take off your shoes... an turn your face.
Or you'll get JERRYIZED, just as HOWER dog lovers
do to their dogs.
HOWER forum at this time is going through it's extinguishment
burst just like your dogs do, HOWER dog lovers have hit the
wall and they're not goin out quietly. That too, is CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. ALL behavior problems are CAUSDED BY MISHANDLING.
The Puppy Wizzzard KNOWS better than to FORCE INTIMIDATE or SCOLD
a DOG. HOWE COME would
HE do that to HOWER dog lovers?
CAUSE THEY'RE INTENTIONAL or PATHOLOGICAL
LIARS, HYPOCRITES, and SADISTS.
Let's call it tit for tat, a debt repaid, quid pro quo, The
Puppy Wizzzard's JACKPOT. This place is a GOLDMINE for
studying the complexities of the deranged human psyche and
tinkerin with it... like HOWER DOG LOVERS EXPERIMIENT with
TOOLS to HURT and INTIMIDATE HOWER DOGS TO DEATH.
This life / death and health threatening event is brought to
you Courtesy Of The Puppy Wizzzard. <{}TPW ; ~ ) >
Welcome Students!
It's the perfect fusion of The Word..., in the physical.
That's HOWE COME we're all here, IMNTBHO.
The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ } >
The Puppy Wizard
You get inconsistent results cause you got no method.
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual." The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.SAME SAME
SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior
BUSINESS.
A Dog Is A Dog As A Child Is A Child. They
Respond In Predictable Innate, Normal,
Natural, Instinctive, Reflexive, Ways, To
Circumstances And Situations Of Their
Environments Which We Create For Them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean
War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By
HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK
What We TAUGHT.
"John F Richardson" <jfrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040204154159...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> Charlie writes:
>
> >So, my purpose is to encourage people
> >in this group to fundamentally re-think
> >how they handle their dogs, especially
> >when the dogs are behaving aggressively.
> >Laying down the law, in the supposed manner
> >of the Alpha Wolf in a wolf-pack, ain't the
> >answer.
>
> I manage a strict no kill shelter that houses
> several dogs that range from creampuffs to
> lifers. While the creampuffs vary significantly
> in personality and drive, the lifers and the
> next several categories down towards the
> "from difficult to impossible to adopt" end
> of the spectrum are all over the map in
> terms of personality, drive and what they
> do and do not respond well to. As the one
> person in the shelter who handles ALL of
> the dogs, I know whereof I speak. And I
> find it somewhere between sad and appalling
> that so very, very many in the dog training
> and behavior world persist in offering up
> their "one true path" solutions like so many
> religious zealots and snake oil salesman of
> yore, now and, alas, for forever more, or
> so it would seem.
>
> JohnR
> Pit Bull Libertarian
>
> Never sneer at the power of a little
> pink squeaky toy!
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:nd0320pue6l0aq40j...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 23:08:38 GMT, Handsome Jack Morrison
> <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:35:11 -0500, "sionnach"
<rhyf...@msn.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >[]
> >>> It's not at all consistent with the confrontational
> >>> approach you and Janet Boss advocate.
> >>
> >> Since I don't "advocate a confrontational approach",
Right. lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson is
a koehler trainer except that he prefers to shock
his dogs.
> >> this is a rather silly statement.
Silly? No. It's a flat HOWET lie.
sinofabitch is always telling us 'pupper use of
the shock or pronged spiked pinch choke collar
doesn't HURT the dog.'
Here's HOWE she trained a new dog to heel
when jerking and choking it on her pronged
spiked pinch choke collar didn't make IT stop
pullin.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> >> Once again, I've discussed and described many
> >> times how I dealt with resource-guarding in one
> >> of my own dogs-
IOW, she's got the same problem.
> >> if you ever bothered to read for content,
> >> you'd know how silly you're being.
Talking to dog abusers and liars is silly...
> > I've been coming here from the first moment
> > there was a here to come to.
Yeah. And NHOWE you can't post here abHOWETS
noMOORE, lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson.
> > And I've yet to see *anyone* (no, not even one
> > person) here ever advocate a "confrontational
> > approach" to dog-training (much less you or
> > Janet!), and we've had some pretty goofy
> > characters here over the years.
Sez lyingdogDUMMY. That's HOWE COME
he can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.
> > If it's Doper Charlie Wilkes who said that,
> > and it sounds like something he would say,
> > I think this is virtually *proof* that experimenting
> > with drugs, even pot, can eventually have a very
> >detrimental effect on one's brain.
Doesn't seem to make him a liar and a dog abuser, HOWver.
> > He's been here waaay too long to still be saying
> > something that stupid without, say, actually being
> > that stupid.
Well, that's on accHOWENT of charlie READS what's
goin on here abHOWETS.
> >Just say no to drugs, Charlie!
The Puppy Wizard just sez "NO" to pharmacutical
anti psychotics cause they just mask the problem.
like they do for HOWER pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
> Hmmm.
> I got started on this because of how Kate handled
> her spaniel. Here's what she wrote on January 20:
>
> > Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed
> > her out. I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but
> > she started curling her lip. I shifted her into a different
> > position and started brushing an ear. She turned and
> > snapped at the air near the hand with the brush.
> >
> > I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!"
> > and switched to brushing another part of her. Later, I felt
> > her over and couldn't find any obvious reason that she
> > might have been uncomfortable.
>
> Now, is that not confrontational? I tend to think it is.
Yeah. But that ain't HOWE COME her dog didn't
TRUST her enough to let her groom her...
> And what advice did our resident Alpha Bitch trainer,
> Janet Boss, have to offer?
You mean the same janet boss who trained
nessa's dogs to TURN ON HER? You DO
remember THAT, charlie.
> It is as follows:
> >I'd be going with a NILIF approach and daily
> >grooming/training sessions. And watching
> >very carefully.
>
> What the hell is that all about?
THAT'S abHOWET what got Teena DEAD.
Same for every other DEAD DOG we've
entertrained to death right here.
> Does the dog need daily grooming, or is the
> philosophy of the trainer to FORCE the dog
> to submit, repeatedly, to that which elicits its
> anger?
THAT'S HOWE COME they prefer their
pronged spiked pinch choke and shock
collars, charlie.
> I believe that is a confrontational strategy for
> dealing with such an animal. It is not one I
> would ever use.
It's RECOMMENDED by most of HOWER dog lovers
here abHOWETS, charlie. They DENY IT, of curse,
but they FORGET their words are archived forever.
> And now that dog is a rotting corpse and you're
> the same piece of shit you ever were.
INDEEDY. lyingdogDUMMY is aka tommy soronson
of soronson's puppy mill, aka joey finnochiario, homophobe
moderator of HOWER HIV forum.
> Charlie
HERE'S HOWE COME kwbrown's dog TURNED ON HER:
> On 3 Feb 2004 15:10:15 GMT, KWBrown
> <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >For a very long time, I have fallen back on the K9web.com
> >FAQs, but they seem to have disappeared recently. I can't
> >pull them up today. The breed FAQs were generally strong
> >and there were some good basic behaviour articles. Diane's
> >Dog-Play site has had lots of great stuff for years, too.
>
> Those sites are great, especially Diane's, but they're still
> somewhat limited in scope (what one person could handle the
> monumental effort required of gathering "everything there is
> to know about dogs" and then publishing and maintaining it
> at one central location?), and probably a little biased,
> too.
END lyingfrosty dahl
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
Psychoclown wrote:
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.
And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:
> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's YOU,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?
Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like
a raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT
on his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked
pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.
"BethF" <da...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us3...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flma...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.02061...@posting.google.com...
> > dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
> > news:<20020610173326...@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" bri...@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
> > All of it?
> > Ear pinching?
> > Shock collars?
> > Spiked chokers?
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
:
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?
matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
He's a MENTAL CASE.
Isn't that true, Marilyn?
Of course not, but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43...@earthlink.net>
rhur...@earthlink.net writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
========================================================
Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream
"NO!" into its
face for 5
seconds:"
Hanging
THE REAL "HOOD"
Are we havin FUN yet?
Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
The Puppy Wizard
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:06:42 -0500, "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I believe that is a confrontational strategy for dealing with
such an
> >> animal.
> >
> >
utterly
> >irrelevant to the current discussion.
> >
> > Once again, your short-term memory is apparently failing you,
since the
> >current subject under discussion is your erroneous and
ludicrous statement
> >that *I* "advocate a confrontational approach" to resource
guarding. We are
> >not discussing how Kate responded to her dog growling while
being groomed,
> >nor Janet's post on the subject.
>
> No, it's not all about you, dear.
> >
> > Hint #1: growling when being groomed is not a resource
guarding issue.
>
> Right-o. If I ever write a "Golden Treasury of Useless
Comments,"
> I'll be sure to include that point, just the way you worded it.
>
> > Hint #2: I never discussed, in any way, the issue of growling
while being
> >groomed.
>
> I'll get that one in too.
>
> > Hint #3: You made a post specifically talking about the issue
of a dog
> >which guards bones or toys, and I responded to the specific
content of your
> >post. That's resource guarding, and that's what this particular
> >sub-discussion is about.
> >
> > Please provide proof of your contention that I adovocate a
confrontational
> >approach to resource guarding. Helpful hint for you: Morag is
the one of my
> >three dogs who food-guarded when I first got her. I've posted
about how I
> >dealt with it many times, as well as how I deal with her now if
she has
> >something she deems valuable that I need to take from her.
Google is your
> >friend.
>
> Bah. If you can't bother to explain what the hell you're
talking
> about, I'm not going to look for anything.
>
> Charlie
The Puppy Wizard
sinofabitch is always telling us 'pupper use of
the shock or pronged spiked pinch choke collar
doesn't HURT the dog.'
Here's HOWE she trained a new dog to heel
when jerking and choking it on her pronged
spiked pinch choke collar didn't make IT stop
pullin.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
Talking to dog abusers and liars is silly...
> > And I've yet to see *anyone* (no, not even one
> > person) here ever advocate a "confrontational
> > approach" to dog-training (much less you or
> > Janet!), and we've had some pretty goofy
> > characters here over the years.
Sez lyingdogDUMMY. That's HOWE COME
he can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.
HERE'S HOWE COME kwbrown's dog TURNED ON HER:
END lyingfrosty dahl
Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:
"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).
I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).
I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).
I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."
RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually,
the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."
Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.
You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?
The Puppy Wizard
Dogs DO NOT BITE their BEST FRIENDS just cause
a treatment HURTS noMOORE than you or anyWON
else would attack their dentist if he caused them pain
when he sez 'this is gonna HURT a little.'
FIGGER IT HOWET.
END lyingfrosty dahl
Psychoclown wrote:
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
HOWEDY kwbrown,
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9484493D720ABar...@130.133.1.4...
> Handsome Jack Morrison <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
> news:8gtt10154g57p2cbj...@4ax.com:
>
> >
> > I don't know if anyone has brought this up here
> > before, so I thought I would, just in case.
> >
> > Most of us are familiar with Wikis, and how they
> > work, but this Wiki is particularly interesting. I
> > found it here(thanks to a Dan Gillmor column):
>
> <snip>
>
> > What do you think the chances are that there can
> > ever be one central and essentially exhaustive
> > source of information regarding dogs?
> >
> > And would having one extensive source even be
> > that much of a quantum leap forward, given today's
> > Internet search-engine capabilities?
>
> I like the Wikis' work - it's fun to browse around the
> encyclopedia and see how much accumulated
> knowledge is within.
>
> For a very long time, I have fallen back on the
> K9web.com FAQs,
INDEED? You mean THIS?: "Don't Let Your Dog
Scream. Use Your Hand To Hold His Muzzle
Closed And Tell Him To Quit Moaning," cindymooreon.
> but they seem to have disappeared recently.
Perhaps that's on accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard.
> I can't pull them up today.
And you won't be able t o read Master Of Deception
blankman's viciHOWES web pages pretty soon, either.
> The breed FAQs were generally strong and there
> were some good basic behaviour articles.
>
> Diane's Dog-Play site has had lots of great stuff for years,
too.
INDEEDY! What a recommendation!
> Kate
You JUST MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
on accHOWENT of THEIR EXXXPERT ADVICE!
Here's HOWE COME:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right,
Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very
Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About
The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy
"don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER
FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE
IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp Tap
Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't HaveDone
It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
Subject: "Don't Let Your Dog Scream. Use Your Hand
Barf warning.
> Isn't that funny?
No.
> --Cindy
Hello cindymooreon,
> and low possessivness,
Visual oral reflex.
Yeah, natural.
THE FORCE FETCH
Thoughts to Consider
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:ac632059anp9oe4kr...@4ax.com...
> On 05 Feb 2004 01:04:53 GMT, j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss) wrote:
>
> >>From: Charlie Wilkes
> >
> >>And what advice did our resident Alpha Bitch trainer, Janet
Boss, have
> >>to offer? It is as follows:
> >
> >How nice of you to refer to me in this manner "Charlie". I had
a dog named
> >Charlie - he had much better manners than you do.
> >
> >>>I'd be going with a NILIF approach and daily
grooming/training sessions.
> >>And
> >>>watching very carefully.
> >>
> >>What the hell is that all about? Does the dog need daily
grooming, or
> >>is the philosophy of the trainer to FORCE the dog to submit,
> >>repeatedly, to that which elicits its anger?
> >
> >"Forcing to submit"? Huh? Daily grooming is just that -
light, daily grooming
> >that let's the dog know it's a necessary function and must be
tolerated.
> >Period. No option to not be groomed. It had never "elicited
anger" in the
> >past,
>
> That is cheap rationalizing.
>
> >and there was no physical problem with skin or coat, so it was
hardly
> >abuse or torture. Retreat is not the answer. Exposure is.
>
> Forced exposure is confrontational. You can't duck this.
> >
> >>I believe that is a confrontational strategy for dealing with
such an
> >>animal. It is not one I would ever use.
> >
> >That's because you're an idiot. I'd hardly refer to grooming a
dog daily as
> >"confrontational".
>
> The dog is dead, right? Nice going, J1-Boss lady. You got your
way.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> >
> >Janet Boss
> >Best Friends Dog Obedience
> >"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
> >Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
> >www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
>
The Puppy Wizard
That's UNFAIR. sinofabitch was PLAYIN with the
dog she was walking in her ILLEGAL unlicensed
under the table dog walkin BUSINESS after jerkin
and choking IT on her pronged spiked pinch choke
collar for a half HOWER didn't calm the dog and
make IT ENJOY his walk in the park, her first day
with her.
"mic-h-ae-l" <mic-h...@dog-gtv.com> wrote in message
news:hsSdnV-CjtG...@comcast.com...
>
>
> Sionnach wrote:
>
> >>I believe that is a confrontational strategy for dealing with
such an
> >>animal.
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether or not you believe it's a confrontational strategy
is utterly
> > irrelevant to the current discussion.
>
>
>
> "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
> Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
> Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
> And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
>
> --sara sionnach
>
The Puppy Wizard
Thank you.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"mic-h-ae-l" <mic-h...@dog-gtv.com> wrote in message
news:hsSdnVmCjtF...@comcast.com...
>
>
> Suja wrote:
>
> > J1Boss wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think so!
> >
> >
> > In context. I think it is too much to expect a 10 month old
puppy to
> > hold a stay for as long as it takes to cook dinner (generally
over an
> > hour for me, with no human to keep an eye on the dog) with at
least one
> > other dog nearby who is snarky, to whom the puppy wants to
respond.
>
> You can't even sleep.
>
> You have to get up five times in the middle of
> the night and go for twenty minute walks in your
> YARD and Khan is STILL peeing and crapping all
> over your living room...
>
> A dog you've had for YEARS is using your
> house as a toilet and you can't you can't even let
> him in the yard to take a crap without walking him
> on a leash because you have NO CONTROL over him....
>
> BWHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!
>
> But don't let me stop you from giving advice...
>
> BWHAHAHHHAHAAAA!!!!
>
> this is michael
> reporting live...
> http://dogtv.com
>
> > Suja
> >
>
The Puppy Wizard
Thank you.
NoWON could be THAT stupid... not even a MENTAL CASE.
THAT MEANS, sinofabitch is a flat HOWET liar.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"mic-h-ae-l" <mic-h...@dog-gtv.com> wrote in message
news:YPadnbVck4L...@comcast.com...
>
>
> Sionnach wrote:
>
> >>However you do it, if you know your action may produce a
hostile
> >>response,
> >
> >
> > What you're missing- due to your lack of experience- is that
if you know
> > what you're doing, and do it in a calm and matter-of-fact way,
it is
> > possible to take something from a growling dog *without*
escalating it into
> > confrontation. (It's essential that dogs allow their handlers
to take things
> > out of their mouths, move food bowls, btw- it can be a matter
of life and
> > death.)
> >
> > The appropriate response - IF you know what you're doing -
is to neither
> > withdraw NOR to go on the offensive. Instead, after a
momentary pause,
> > slowly, calmly, and matter-of-factly continue with forward
motion, EXPECTING
> > the dog to give you the object. If the dog growls, you pause
again- possibly
> > giving a verbal reprimand, possibly giving verbal reassurance
(depending on
> > the individual dog) - then continue.
> > NOT giving up the object (or letting me move it, in the case
of a food
> > bowl) is simply not an option for the dog.
>
>
>
> BWEAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!
>
> No, that's not confrontational....
>
> BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAA!!!!!
>
> It's classic toxic mommy toxicity, and it's
> the EXACT same toxic mommying that got TEENA DEAD.
>
>
> "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
> Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
> Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
> And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
>
> ---- sara sionnach.
>
>
> I'm not Shore if you are insane, or really this stupid.
The Puppy Wizard
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:59:29 -0500, "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It's up to YOU to explain how you got your incorrect idea
that my way of
> >dealing with resource guarding is "confrontational"- or admit
that you're
> >just making shit up.
>
> You can only play dodge-ball with a word for so long before you
smash
> into a brick wall of accepted meaning. Here's what I said:
>
> > Same thing when a dog growls if you take away its toy. Some
people
dog that
> > they are the master and have the "right" to take the toy
anytime they
> > want. And it always makes things worse!
>
>
> >Not at all true. It depends on how you handle doing it
repeatedly-
> >whether you approach it as "I'm going to teach this dog who's
boss!"
> >or in a calm, matter of fact way.
>
could
> easily choose not to, you have opted for the path of
confrontation.
>
> Charlie
>
A reader writes:
> >I haven't read Koehler so once again I will try to get an
> > answer from those of you who HAVE read him:
>
> Is the Cloud 9 technique of dog training derivative of the
> Koehler method?
Exactly. It's the same method as lyinglynn, lyingfrostydahly,
cindy moore, cindi long, lyingdogdirty, blackman, terri, steve
boyer, janet boss, and even our Britt friend Ludwig, amongst
many, many, other "respected" rpdb regulars here, all use and
endorse.
That's why I'm taking a lot of heat from them and their pals
trying to obscure the truth... That's O.K., I'm used to
dealing with incompetents like these sadistic, immoral,
unethical, corrupt, morons that only know fear, force,
confrontation, punishment, and violence, and are satisfied
fighting with and HURTING dogs because of their behavior,
instead of intelligently handling and training dogs...
The extent the trainer at Cloud9 in Atlanta GA went with the
method was excessive only because of her obvious pleasure in
tormenting dogs, but the actions she used was not much
different than what is used and taught here...but beauty is in
the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
http://www.apbnews.com/videocenter/player/govid.html?video=/vid
eocent er/othervideos/2000/04/20/petabuse0420 (broken link.
paste link into browser)
It's all in the book by koehler... It is based on incrementally
increasing fear force and violence, and when the dogs
object to the "training," the reader is instructed to suspend
the dog in the air either by hand or mechanism, and to hang
the dog till his eyes roll back in his head, his tongue
thickens and turns blue and falls out the side of his mouth,
and when you put the dog back on the ground, he should stagger
a few steps and puke... OTHERWISE, you didn't HANG the dog
CORRECTLY, and will have to do it over again...
Throughout the entire text, are sophisticated desensitization
and rationalization techniques that are intended to mislead
the reader to substantiate the reasoning behind his abuse and
convince the reader that everything the dog does, is a direct
affront towards the handlers "authority?". When the method
fails, he recommends that the dog be destroyed because the dog
was a result of "bad breeding"...
Our friend frantik fraud die obviates all physical punishing
contact whatsoever, preferring to rely on just turning up the
juice on his sadoelectroshock collar, and burning the dogs
till they piss and shit themselves. It's commonly accepted
that this will happen when using shock collars, there may have
been some discussion on that here just this week. It's an
admission also made by the staff "behaviorists" from some of
the ecollar manufacturers.
The abuse that went on at Cloud9 is exactly the same kind of
abuse that is recommended here. That is what is responsible
for the deaths of millions of dogs every year. These
"trainers" try to blame these incredible losses on ineffective
training methods used by non force trainers, or attribute it
to lenient or inconsistent handlers, and finally when they
have to hang and destroy dogs themselves, they lay the blame
on to the "bad breed stock" the dogs came from, as instructed
in the big book by the monster koehler. Those are just excuses
to justify their continued abuse and violence. Some of them
here are liars, although many of them are truly mislead
themselves.
Koehler was a master of human psychology, and he cleverly
designed a system of disinformation to desensitize all but the
most astute, competent, intelligent trainers, into believing
his methods are appropriate behavior. No one in their right
mind would accept what he's taught, until they've read the
convoluted methodology and erroneous theories he uses to
justify doing lousy, filthy, rotten things to our dogs, things
that we would NEVER be proud to do in public..., and IN FACT
would go to jail for doing... By now, this cruelty is so well
entrenched and accepted, that only serious efforts on the part
of competent trainers are ever going to stop this insanity...
Of course, our pal cindy moore has even more creative methods
for enhancing the bond between dog and "trainer." She
advocates twisting toes and pinching ears, to train her dogs.
I wouldn't say it if I hadn't read it myself in black and
white on her own web page in her own words...She won't post a
link to it, just ask her to and see...
Amy Dahl posted her links to articles she's written about the
forced retrieve, and has since LIED and said that she does not
use or teach those methods...she even whips dogs that are
restrained, to "teach" them to make a good start on the
retrieve...
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html
These clowns agree that this kind of force is NECESSARY to get
the dog to excel at ANY advanced level of work...
People get confused when they see these highly respected
hypocrites criticized by myself and the more than half dozen
seasoned, competent, professional trainers here that have
learned through experience that those "techniques" are vicious
and counterproductive, and leads to ''collateral damages," the
deaths of millions of dogs every year, directly as a result of
their abusive efforts at training...
The problem is, that they won't change their vicious ways
until everybody here is aware of the violence they teach, and
until everyone else understands the ramifications of just how
counterproductive and dangerous these methods are, and stops
them in their tracks every time they post their terrible
insanity here. That's why they all despise me, I'm blowing
their cover. It's about time...
There is even considerable medical evidence of vertebra and
disc damage from ordinary training "corrections" as they are
taught here. These people just ignore the facts, and continue
doing what they have been erroneously led to believe is
appropriate.
There is comfort in numbers, misery likes company, and they
have a tight little clique that harasses and denigrates any
competent trainers with more intelligent solutions to training
and behavior problems, till they no longer fight with these
rotten bastards, and leave this group because they realize
that it is an impossible battle, that nothing lasting or
meaningful can ever come of their efforts to educate these
"pros"... That's why I'm here, I don't take on the easy
challenges.
"Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and
judge things by reason's way, not by popular say." Montaigne
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Salvor Hardin
If you cannot convince them, confuse them. H.S. Truman.
DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS... j;~)
"CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw.
"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy
Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:
caveat
If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing them.
If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog
around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock,
shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that
corrections are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you
as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if
they can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows Howe.
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-
There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem,
bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.
Who ever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not
hit at all.
-Nietzsche-
The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.
The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him
smarter.
The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising
split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not
mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and
scolding.
-Jerry Howe-
The Puppy Wizard
From: Sionnach (rhyf...@msn.com)
Subject: Re: "drop it"
Date: 2003-01-08 06:09:40 PST
"Amanda wrote:
> i think blowing up its nose while holding its collar
> AND taking its toy when it obviously is not interesting
> in losing its toy.. WILL PO the dog and possible cause
> it to bite...
No, it won't- not in a situation such as Kelly's, where
the dog is PLAYING, and not in most situations unless
the dog is unstable or dangerously aggressive.
STABLE dogs, with a good relationship with their
owners, don't get "pissed off" and bite.
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:kte420p9n9lemtfd5...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:50:08 -0500, "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > What you're missing- due to your lack of experience-
> > is that if you know>what you're doing, and do it in a
> > calm and matter-of-fact way, it is possible to take
> > something from a growling dog *without* escalating
> > it into confrontation. (It's essential that dogs allow their
> > handlers to take things out of their mouths, move food
> > bowls, btw- it can be a matter of life and death.)
> >
> > The appropriate response - IF you know what you're
> > doing - is to neither withdraw NOR to go on the offensive.
> > Instead, after a momentary pause, slowly, calmly, and
> > matter-of-factly continue with forward motion, EXPECTING
> > the dog to give you the object. If the dog growls, you pause
> > again- possibly giving a verbal reprimand, possibly giving
> > verbal reassurance (depending on the individual dog) -
> > then continue.
>
> Nonsense. This is the path of confrontation, and it
> contradicts every credible source of information I
> have ever encountered. I don't think Jean Donaldson
> is gonna turn that around when her book shows up in
> the mail, per Lynn K.'s recommendation.
>
> What if, instead of growling the second time you reach
> for the object, the dog lunges for you and bites like hell?
>
> Then the dog ends up like Teena, who bit her so-called
> trainer and paid the price.
>
> Charlie
The Puppy Wizard
"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bvtf67$106jeh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote
> from any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
No, that's a flat HOWET lie, sinofabich. It's a
direct quote from YOU, with exception of TWO
WORDS, "smartly" and "neatly."
> It's quotes from two different posts, by two
> different people -
ONLY if you're SCHIZOPHRENIC, sinofabitch.
> both taken out of context-
YOU'RE A LIAR.
We got your original post in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
You'll see your own words EXXXACTLY as QUOTED. And
we'll likeWIZE see you DENYING your own words in three different
ways!!!
> and with extra wording added in by a third person.
NO. YOU'RE A LIAR.
The ONLY "extra words" SMARTLY and NEATLY,
were indeedy, added by The Puppy Wizard, HOWEver
they were NOT SIGNIFICANT, except for poetic license:
You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE:
"When it was obvious that she had NO intention
of paying any attention to anything but the other
dogs (and that I was in danger of having my arm
dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the
Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with
my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on
her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not
particularly hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just
get her attention!)."
From: Sionnach (rhyf...@msn.com)
Subject: Re: I dropped the leash!
Date: 2003-12-15 07:55:16 PST
> "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
> Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
> Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
> And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
<yawn> That's not a quote written by me, kiddo.
That's an amalgam of two different people's posts,
with extra words added by Jerry.
From: Sionnach (rhyf...@msn.com)
Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?
Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST
"BethF" wrote:
>
> I don't think any of our regulars bite their dogs ears
> to leash train them.
He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations... I did,
once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control, temper-tantruming
Labrador on the ear to get her attention. It had fuck-all
to do with leash training though, and everything to do
with getting through to an incredibly hard-headed,
tough-minded, and spoiled-rotten dog that A. she was
NOT going to physically control me the way she had
every other female human she'd dealt with and B. that
I was worth paying attention to.
It came up in a discussion where someone else
mentioned having nipped a terrier puppy who
wouldn't stop play-biting. In both cases, it was a
one-time instinctive response to an unusual situation.
--------------------
You HURT dogs and LIE abHOWET it in the
artistic musical ballet like style of lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn.
The Puppy Wizard sez you can't post here abHOWETS
nogoddamnedMOORE cause you're a liar and a dog
abuser like your pals... who likeWIZE, can't post here
abHOWETS nogoddamnedMOORE cause they hurt
and murder dogs when they get too SCARED to HURT
them someMOORE.
From: sionnach (rhyf...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: growling westie !!
Date: 2001-09-23 11:13:17 PST
"NBlomgren" wrote:
>
> The closest I came to overreacting was after taking
> different approaches to her play-biting. "No" didn't do it.
> "NO!" didn't work. I tried to say "ow" like a hurt puppy.
> Didn't work.
>
> Finally I bit her back. On the top of the head. Not hard,
> but she felt my teeth.
>
> Her reaction: she sat very still and looked at me. And we've
> never had a problem since.
Heh. I know that look! <G> Yup, sometimes you just plain
have to "speak dog" to 'em- some dogs just don't get it
unless you do. About18 months ago, I ended up nipping
an obnoxiously exuberant Lab puppy who was doing a
hooked-fish imitation, determined that she was going to
bolt off down the trail and drag me with her.
I should explain, btw, that said "puppy" was 8 months
and already 75 lb, and that I'm 4' 11 3/4" and weigh
under 105; that she was accustomed to dragging her
much larger male owner around; and that she was quite
definitely testing what she could get away with, as the
previous dogwalker had been utterly unable to control
her and had refused to take her any more.
Thing was, the behavior had *worked* on the last dog-
walker- when the dog pulled the yanking, bouncing,
whirling-dervish bit, she would drop the leash & let her
run! Talk about teaching bad behaviour! :-P
The "make like a tree" thing (my usual response to
leash-pulling) didn't work; yes, I could keep her from
taking off, but instead of figuring out that she needed
to try a different behaviour, and giving me something
to praise, she increased the behaviour.
Nor did any attempts at verbal distraction work; she was
*determined* that she was going to yank the leash out of
my hand and bolt down the trail after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying
any attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was
in danger of having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even
think about it; I dropped the leash, threw my right arm over
the Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with my left
hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on her, said "GRRRR!"
and nipped her ear (not particularly hard- I wasn't trying to
*hurt* her, just get her attention!).
Whole thing took less than a second- I immediately released
her, and she jumped up, wagging her tail, looked at me (for
the first time) and SAT. Her whole attitude was "Hey, cool! I
UNDERSTAND you; I get it; whatchu want??". I praised her,
had her walk with me for about ten feet, then asked for a sit
and released her to play with the other dogs.
We've been the best of friends ever since. :-) She's a
really cool dog-pity her owners don't have the time or
desire to work with her, 'cause I think she'd make a
*great* SAR dog.
> > IOW when she displays dominant/aggressive behaviour-
> > as all puppies will, as they test the parameters of their
> > world- the appropriate response is to CALMLY inform
> > her that it ain't gonna work, and make it worth her while
> > to behave cooperatively.
>
> > At this point, my opinion is that the OP has royally
> > screwed up in a number of ways, and needs to do
> > one of two things: 1. get the help of a trainer or
> > behaviourist who understands terriers, and rebuild
> > a *healthy* relationship with the dog
>
> Definitely. Though that'll require him working on himself,
> as well, though.
>
> > or 2. Give the dog to a terrier rescue group- NOT
> >a shelter!
>
> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>
> >- and get a Gund.
>
> lol.
>
> --nb
The Puppy Wizard
"michael2" <mich...@ddd.ddogtv.com> wrote in message
news:%KsUb.7619906$Of.12...@news.easynews.com...
>
>
> Sionnach wrote:
> > <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote from
> > any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
> >
> > It's quotes from two different posts, by two
> > different people - both taken out of context-
> > and with extra wording added in by a third person.
>
> Then why don't you refer us to your original post
> where you talked about tackling and biting the Lab
> puppy to show it you weren't going to take any crap.
>
> Post it right here, so we don't misquote you.
You'd think these MENTAL CASES would be too
EMBARRASSED to defend their lies contradicting
their own words.
> thank you.
>
> <insert sara sionnach's posts
> where she describes tackling
> and biting a lab puppy who wasn't
> obeying her>
Here ya go, Soup. Here's sinofabitche's
original post and two different kinds of
denials:
HOWEDY sinofabitch,
YOU'RE A LIAR.
--------------------
> this is michael
> reporting live...
> http://dogtv.com
>
The Puppy Wizard
Dogs DO NOT ATTACK their BEST FRIEND
cause they HURT him during a necessary
treatment. They ATTACK people whom they
FEAR because they've ABUSED them.
You can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"John F Richardson" <jfrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040204220116...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> Charlie writes:
>
> >However you do it, if you know
> >your action may produce a hostile
> >response, but you perform that
> >action anyway, even though you
> >could easily choose not to, you have
> >opted for the path of confrontation.
>
> Giving a dog a shot MAY produce
> a hostile reaction. So I guess the
> proper "non-confrontational" approach
> to dog care is not to innoculate.
The Puppy Wizard
"John F Richardson" <jfrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040204220116...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> Charlie writes:
>
> >However you do it, if you know
> >your action may produce a hostile
> >response, but you perform that
> >action anyway, even though you
> >could easily choose not to, you have
> >opted for the path of confrontation.
>
> Giving a dog a shot MAY produce
> a hostile reaction.
Not if you haven't ABUSED the dog, johnny.
> So I guess the proper "non-confrontational"
> approach to dog care is not to innoculate.
You're making an illogical argument to defend
abusing dogs. We're not takin your crap noMOORE.
You're a liar and a dog abuser, johnny.
> JohnR
> Pit Bull Libertarian
The Puppy Wizard
"Michelle" <penny...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bZGdnRxbnYO...@comcast.com...
>
> "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:bvtf67$106jeh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote from
> > any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.
sinofabitch is an HOWEtright LIAR and DOG
ABUSER and MENTAL CASE.
> > It's quotes from two different posts,
That's a LIE.
> > by two different people -
That's a LIE.
> > both taken out of context-
That's a LIE.
> > and with extra wording added in by a third person.
TWO WORDS: "Smartly" and "Neatly."
EVERY THING ELSE IS EXXXACTLY
AS sinofabitch STATED in her original.
> Okay I am trying to follow this post,
> but which quote are you refering to??
>
> >Instead, after a momentary pause, slowly,
> > calmly, and matter-of-factly
> Is it this one?
No. That's Charlie's discussion with sinofabitch.
> Are ppl posting under other ppls names again??
No, but sinofabitch will probably try sayin that next...
> Or is it just to early for this...
You're playing grabass with LIARS DOG
ABUSERS and INCURABLE MENTAL CASES.
> Michelle
Here's sinofabitche's original post and two
different kinds of denials:
HOWEDY sinofabitch,
The Puppy Wizard
>
> > The quote to which she is objecting
>
> Heh. Not objecting to, really, just pointing out that it's NOT
a quote.
The Puppy Wizard
YOU CAN'T TRAIN YOUR DOG NOT TO
STEAL OFF YOUR CHOWENTER!!!
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual." The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bvtpll$10p20k$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> >
> > yep. make it as much of a non-issue as possible while
> > achieving your goal.
>
> Exactly.
>
>
> > it's important to make sure that the dog
> > doesn't come away from the experience with the idea that it
> > might be worth its while to escalate things the next time.
>
> Exactly- and this is where Charlie's advice to defer to the
dog and back
> off, with the expectation that one of these days the dog will
stop guarding
> by some sort of osmosis, is wrong. (Assuming, of course, that
the dog in
> question is one that you have responsibility for.)
> You have to actively TEACH the dog that you have the right to
touch the
> possessed object, while at the same time teaching the dog that
you don't do
> so arbitrarily or unfairly, you won't hurt the dog, and that the
dog won't
> lose by letting you do it.
> It's about trust & fair trade, along with being about who
controls the
> resources.
>
>
> BTW, Charlie- at the park, more than once I've had success
taking toys away
> from dogs whose owners CANNOT get them to relinquish things,
even by waving
> treats under the dog's nose. (Taking toys being necessary
because their dogs
> had stolen something belonging to one of my dogs, and I needed
it back.)
> It's all in how you do it.
> In the 30 years I've been handling dogs, I've been seriously
bitten
> exactly ONCE- when I deliberately put myself in harm's way to
break up a
> fight between two large male dogs. I knew I was most likely
going to get
> bitten doing it, but took the gamble because one of the dogs was
in danger
> of losing an eye.
> I may make a mistake someday and misread a dog, but so far
it's never
> happened.
>
> The ONLY dog I've ever handled that I felt I was in any real
danger from
> was an Airedale whose owners had always handled him the way you
suggest- by
> backing off every time he growled at them. His owner's wife
didn't dare even
> walk into the kitchen when he was eating.
> He met his death, incidentally, bolting out of his front door
to defend
> "his" territory from a passerby on the other side of the street.
>
>
> > that's an important point. i've got two very different dogs.
> > if elliott *were* ever to growl at me (i honestly can't
> > conceive of him doing such a thing), verbally reprimanding him
> > would be the best way of re-engaging his brane.
>
> It's also important to note that "verbal reprimand" doesn't
mean yell,
> scream, or try to intimidate the dog.
>
> > often she'll lie down by
> > me with the questionable item and make a big production of
> > nosing it around. i interpret it as her way of asking if the
> > object is Allowed. if it isn't, i take it and give her a
> > cookie. if it is, i take it and hand it back to her and she
> > boings off to play with/eat it.
>
> Very similar to what Morag did/does. The only time we ever
have any sort
> of issue now is if she's guarding something from one of the
other dogs. Even
> so, all I have to do is say calmly "Morag, what've you got?" and
keep my
> hand where it is, and she'll then let me take it.
>
> Funny thing is, we just had that happen yesterday. Tuesday, I
pulled out
> my hooded winter coat because we had to walk in pouring
38-degree rain, and
> found a mini rawhide bone in the pocket- one small enough to
present a
> choking hazard to a larger dog. (I think the clerk at PetsMart
gave it to
> Rocsi last time I was wearing the coat.)
> Anyhow, I took it out of the pocket and laid it on the table,
meaning to
> either throw it away or give it Rocsi during Mw's agility class
on
> Thursday(IOW, when she's crated by herself).
> Mw managed to get it off the table yesterday, and lay down
under my chair
> to eat it. I reached down to see what she had, just as Rocsi
poked HER nose
> in- Mw snatched the whole thing up, growling, and closed her
mouth tight,
> clamping her jaw.
> I shooed Rocsi away, cupped my hand under Morag's jaw and
said "Let me
> see, Mw"- she relaxed her jaw, and allowed me to open her mouth,
reach into
> the back, and remove the bone, which was now in two chunks. I
thanked her,
> then gave her back the smaller one, and threw away the one large
enough to
> be a choking hazard. No big deal.
> If neither chunk had been safe, I would have praised her, then
gone and
> gotten her a biscuit or pulled a treat out of my pocket for her.
>
>
>
> > heh. harriet has discovered the can recycling bin. she raids
> > it and brings me cat food cans to trade for cookies. clever
> > girl!
>
> That she is. <G> My guys poke in the recycle bin sometimes,
but our
> biggest issue with stuff like that is that Mam (who's getting a
tad
> forgetful)is always doing things like washing out a yogurt
container, then
> putting it in the regular small trashcan, which even Rocsi can
reach into.
>
>
>
>
The Puppy Wizard
"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c006ma$110jco$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >
> > It's quite possible to be strong and confident and get
> > your own way without being the least bit confrontational.
> > In fact, I would argue that being confrontational is
> > a sign of weakness and insecurity.
RIGHT. That's HOWE COME we use the gentle
pronged spiked pinch choke and shock collars.
> Exactly.
Right! When that fails, it's done like THIS:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> > But then again,
But then again, The Puppy Wizard MADE THAT UP.
> > you've studied martial arts; I'm sure
> > you know all that. <*g*>
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Yup.
Yup. sinofabitch uses MA for dog trainin...
> I think I've posted this before, but... my sensei
> (awesome man, one of the few "caucasians" to
> get to the rank of 7th dan, still actively doing judo
> well into his 70's) has a standard answer whenever
> reporters, eager young gung-ho types from Fort
> Meade, etc., ask "What's the best self-defense
> technique?"
>
> He looks at them deadpan, with just a hint of a
> twinkle in his eye, and in a dry Georgia drawl
> replies "Don't git in a faht in the first place.".
>
Here's the ORIGINAL quote of you abusing a dog:
<9ol8nr$e1c5h$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de>
> "I dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's
> shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand,
> rolled her on her side, leaned on her, said "GRRRR!"
> and nipped her ear"
Vs The Puppy Wizard's LIES:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
Looks like your "sensi" hasn't met the right students.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<ojn220pi99cqavl79...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > I consider Lynn to be one of the self-styled druids
Not quite. She's a pathological liar, dog abuser,
and certified long term incurable mental patient.
> > who would like everyone to think dog-training
> > is a profession or a high art rather
Rather like poetry. Kinda like ballet. Or MOORE
like tap dancing.
> > than something anyone can do with a modicum
> > of study and practice.
ALL the INFORMATION you NEED to KNOW is
in your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
PRECISELY!
> Doing it well takes more than a modicum of study
> and practice.
RIGHT! You gotta know HOWE to DO it.
> If that were true I'd be comfortable in referring
> people to any of the hundreds of dog nuts
Ooops! Wrong choice of words, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> I know
"Birds of a feather."
> instead of the 5 or 6 skilled people I regularly refer to.
HOWE abHOWET FRAUDreck?
> You can't underestimate experience.
You don't NEED EXXXPERIENCE if you know HOWE.
> Yesterday I took 2 classes and taught
> 3: that's around 50 dogs I interacted
> with in one day, and a whole lot of
> behavior to observe and learn from.
Yeah. Let's talk abHOWET SAR work.
> > But in any case, I'm not sure what Lynn
> > agrees with you about,
>
> I agree with Sarah that you make matters worse
> by not dealing with resource guarding.
Right. It's ALL based on TRUST.
Like this:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
> You are badly confused about what that means.
It MEANS you gotta MURDER your BEST dogs:
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
That's INSANE. Ain't it. Here's HOWE COME
you gotta MURDER dogs:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
> You seem to believe that the only 2 options are
> confrontation and ignoring the behavior.
No. Not IGNORING or HURTING... but TRAINING.
> Not true. You can address resource guarding by
> refocusing the dog on you as the source of all resources,
You mean, his ABUSER.
Like THIS:
Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
That's HOWE COME his dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
> teaching him/her that it's in his best interest to
> interact with you
OR YOU'LL MURDER IT:
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed >>every
adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
>>condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people
>>who had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K. --------------------------------------
> to get access to any resource.
Like makin the find on a SAR site?
> Lynn K.
Let's talk abHOWER your SELECTIVELY BRED
hand picked and tested and meticulHOWESLY
trained SAR dog JIVE?
Or better yet, let's talk abHOWET your long
case history of mental illness?:
HOWEDY dog lovers,
Form Follows Function - The End Of The Circle
We've been goin rHOWEND and rHOWEND
abHOWET shock Vs pronged spike choke Vs
slip choke Vs pronged spiked choke Vs shock
Vs hanging Vs slip choke Vs shock Vs pronged
spiked pinch choke collar "training" Vs hanging
till there ain't noMOORE BULLSHIT to go rHOWEND.
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help."
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV
NHOWE we've come to the ONLY logical
conclusion: "When is euth. warranted?"
Well dog lovers, THAT'S HOWE COME
The Puppy Wizard came here abHOWETS
to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE DISCREDIT and
DISPATCH HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog
Sbusing Punk Thug Coward MENTAL PATIENTS.
You CANNOT lock your MENTALLY ILL SIMPLETON'S
in a closet and expect them not to get loose and BREED
noMOORE than you can expect to continue breeding
stock that produces MENTALLY ILL SIMPLETONS
that you'll have to lock in a closet so they won't breed:
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
From: Gary & lois Edwards (ga...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives".
Back when I started taking them it was seen as
something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple.
A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life. No Denna, I was just saying with
Darlene's personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person update,
including our latest mentally unstable person, Lois E.
of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation
on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on
mental illness medications combined:
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
---------------------
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<ctk5201jei0bs9s9m...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > If you want to establish credibility, find a reputable
published
> > source who recommends the approach you have described
> > in this thread, whether for beginners, advanced dog-trainers,
> > or anyone else. It's not found in any of the material I have
> > reviewed,
Have you read professor SCRUFF SHAKE'S posts
on scruff shaking?
> > and in fact it is the subject of explicit warnings about what
>> not to do.
Yeah, but that's only from the folks who'll kill
a dog instead of bein KIND to IT and HANG IT
when necessary... like Robert Crim did to Fritz
The Wonder Dog.
> Huh????
Hunh??? You got that NATURAL BORN STUPID
look again like a goat who's been whacked back
side of his head with a sledge hammer.
> What Sarah is talking about is handling skills,
Like THIS:
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> something that can NOT be taught in a book.
It's in your koehler book.
Since when cannot HUMAN BEINGS LEARN from BOOKS?
> She's absolutely right,
Well, given that she's a PROVEN LIAR,
and given that YOU'RE a PROVEN LIAR,
then yeah, she's RIGHT.
> if you are calm in mind and body,
INDEEDY! Let's talk abHOWET "The Unquiet Mind."
Perhaps captain haggerty will talk to us abHOWET
ZEN breathin? BWEEEEHAHAHAHAAA!!!
>there's very little the dog views as confrontational.
You been takin your meds, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
> What fills the books are alternative methods for
> those without those handling skills.
Let's talk abHOWET what fills your medecine cabinet?:
> Lynn K.
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
-----------------------------------------
Here's the rHOWEndup:
Kelly/ severe OCD, ADD, major depression with culprit
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming forward so that
others like her will have the strength to do the same. Like
Charlie Wilkes, she is one of our most entertraining regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally about her mental
illness/crazy problems. Sally is being rude and condescending
(as usual) and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for being
crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
Mustang Sally -----------------------------------------------
well i wouldn't consider myself mentally healthy. though i'll
refrain from calling myself ill if it makes you feel better.
and no, ADD is not the major problem, i certainly know that, i
just mentioned it because of the impulsivity issues.
i wasn't trying to imply i'm disabled by it.
but i stand by the fact that OCD is an illness, major
depression with psychotic features certainly is, panic
disorder is too. and the other stuff just makes it all the
more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to accept it,
because ignoring it wasn't working out too well. i need to do
that to make changes to my life so that i can become healthy.
and you say you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing) "people
who think they're mentally ill are wallowing in their
disabilities and letting them consume their life" you come
across as though you would be able to handle any of these
illnesses, and anyone who can't is just copping out.
well we're all different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my problems.
i tried it for years, and believe me, it didn't work very
well.
-kelly --------------------------------------------
From: culprit (cul...@flashmail.com) Subject: Re: another
eevil pit bull story Date: 2003-10-08 08:47:43 PST
"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:3F842E58...@ig.utexas.edu...
>
> Yep there it is NAMI. And yes ADHD or ADD or considered as a
> mental illness in which one can apply for many different
> things even in the work force in which they are suppose to
> accomodate you to help improve your condition.
>
> But I don't care to go there so I am one of those untreated
> ADHD people in the world. Whatever I am nearly 50 and have
> gotten along just fine. Or so I feel fulfilled.
yeah, i'm pretty sure i could qualify for all sorts of
disability stuff (the OCD and ADD are just the tip of my
iceberg). but i don't. i know i can function well enough to
do my job, i'll leave the benefits for those that really need
them.
mine is mostly a social impairment. go figure. :-)
-kelly
From: sighthounds etc. (greypi...@ncweb.com) Subject: Re:
another eevil pit bull story Date: 2003-10-08 09:12:56 PST
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:33:44 -0500, Gwen Watson
<gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
wrote:
>
>culprit wrote:
>
>> "sighthounds etc." <greypi...@ncweb.com> wrote in
>> message news:f8b8ov46ctu1ds18o...@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > ADD and OCD are mental illnesses?
>> >
>>
>> oh, BTW...
>>
>>
http://www.nami.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Inform_Yourself/Abou
t_M ental_Illness/About_Mental_Illness.htm
>>
>> -kelly
>
>Yep there it is NAMI. And yes ADHD or ADD or considered as a
>mental illness in which one can apply for many different
>things even in the work force in which they are suppose to
>accomodate you to help improve your condition.
>
>But I don't care to go there so I am one of those untreated
>ADHD people in the world. Whatever I am nearly 50 and have
>gotten along just fine. Or so I feel fulfilled.
I guess this is just one of those instances in which I feel
that the US is turning into a nation of victims. And please,
don't anybody jump all over me, because I am not talking about
anyone personally. Everything seems to be a compensatable (not
sure if that's actually a word) disability. If 3/4 of the
people are physically disabled or mentally ill, what's
'normal'?
Terrible parents, painful childhoods, physical illnesses,
psychological problems, etc. are all part of who a person is,
and therefore how s/he sees the world and interacts in it. But
life isn't about who you are and what you've got, it's what
you do with it. For me anyway, the more I think of myself as
partially disabled, the more I am that way.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like Dr. Phil.
Mustang Sally
---------------------
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD* Mental illness is a public issue in
these newsgroups. People are always running around calling
other people mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I
think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who is
and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
------------------------------------------
WORDS OF WISDOM from our own Lynn Kosmakos
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
ROTATE YOUR MEDS!
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a
>> biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims
>> to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
SEE? TOLD YA SO!
Here's lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either
They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some
Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must
Keep The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE IT HUNT is
NECESSARY???
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
> I think you'll find that most are quite willing to
> discuss not only their programs,
YOU HURT and KILL DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> but others in your area that would be suitable for you.
Know what? The OP would do better askin a MENTAL CASE off the
street than relyin on you and you MENTALLY ILL LYIN DOG ABUSIN
PUNK THUG COWARDS:
> Lynn K.
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed every
>>adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
>>condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who had to
>>make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K. --------------------------------------
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of beautiful
labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe you'd be singing a
different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and put their
bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer for the trash
company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
> (replies to the list please)
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard don't want noWON to
miss the FREAK PARADE:
From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com) Subject: I am Newsgroups:
alt.support.depression Date: 1998/12/02
a major bitch today
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com) Subject: Re: got a question -
how long before I'm an EX-cutter? Newsgroups:
alt.support.depression Date: 1998/11/30
> I mean, I haven't cut since June. But am I a cutter or an
> ex-cutter now?
>
> And how long before I am an ex-cutter? anyone got any
> answers?
>
> I still get sort-of cutting urges, but I haven't had 'em
> very strongly.Just sort of vague thoughts in my head. But I
> think that's going to happen forever.
>
> Kind of like alcoholics who recover.
>
> I know that the urge will come back at times of stress, but
> I don't have to do it.
>
>so, when am I an ex-cutter?
Its been about 9 months since I last cut.
I consider myself a recovering self injurer.
I still get the urge at times.
And like an alcoholic, i could easily slide.
So, Im proud of me for being in recovery from cutting....
And I'm proud of you Laz for being in recovery
and Im proud of everyone else resisting the temptation.
Love, hope and caring to yall all
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com) Subject: Re: is it self injury
if: Newsgroups: alt.support.depression Date: 1998/12/03
>you pick at scabs and watch them bleed...
>
>you pick at hangnails and make them bleed...
>
>you pick at calluses on your feet until they bleed....
>
>you poke blisters making them bleed....
I dont know. I wonder myself. I do the same thing. Im a self
injurer and an obsessive compulsive. I always thought it was
picking from my OCD.
-Sunny
----------------
From: Sunni12 (sun...@aol.com) Subject: Re: I wish I
was........ Newsgroups: alt.support.depression Date:
1998/12/05
> sun...@aol.com (Sunni12) wrote:
>> important needed cared about loved wanted
>>
>> -Sunny
>>
>>
>You are all those things, Sunny...& more.
>
>But I'll give you a few more cyberhugs, anyway...
>
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUNNY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>
>Mary
Thanks. That was a really bad day when I wrote it. Much better
now.
Thanks
Sunny who should do something about her PMS
RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03
NEW!!
LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium LOIS E. 25 plus years on
tricyclics
Hello Fans,
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person update,
including our latest mentally unstable person, Lois E. of Gary
and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics pushing 25 years. She
is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and opens
up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as her love
afair with Zoloft.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! RPD* Ment_ally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER (MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO
CARE ABOUT DOGS COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
WORDS OF WISDOM from our own Lynn Kosmakos
=======================================
From: Chris Kosmakos (chri...@netcom.com) Subject: Re:
complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility for
: their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation on
Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on mental
illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
> Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so she
> was prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really quite
a lot of good work out there and decent research. Thank
God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.)
22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR... YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly, 'I
take anti-depressives'"
-------------------------------------
From: Gary & lois Edwards (ga...@bmi.net) Subject: Re: Where
is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD* Mental illness is a public issue in
these newsgroups. People are always running around calling
other people mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.
I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who is
and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING! list as of
12/21/2003:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
=============================================
NESSA NUTCASE MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups
Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP
Nessa blames all the problems in her life moston ADD ADHD Or
some other empowering acronym which encapsulates her futility
for her
Her dog bagel, a large newf mix has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives a 2003 Toyota
Matrix, owns a house in suburban MD, recently got a
raise/promotion to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two dogs. With help
from non crazy regular (Paulette) and witchcraft practicing
regular Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her dogs for
the time being. She is undergoing training from Janet "Nice
Abdominal Surgery and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
Her results have not been dramatic.
CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular Leah helping Nessa
=============================
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote
Nessa use...@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes, it's not related to Bagel
at all. I have chronic major depression and I'm just having
a flare."
Leah asks "Are you on any medication?"
Nessa responds
yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD. I have been for
over 10 years.
--nessa
Nessa is Fat as well as crazy =============================
"For what it's worth...
I picked up 30 pounds when I started Dilantin. I picked up
(just recently) another 20 on risperidol.
I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and now I am
solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.
Sad part is, the side effects are worth it. The positive
effects are too much to part with."
--nessa
============================
NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH ==============================
Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va. He is at the
Rosyln Metro Station. His name is Martin Stein 1911 N Fort
Myer Dr. Suite 907 Arlington Va 22209 703-807-2471 email
75120...@compuserve.com
Marty is wonderful. He is really the best. He has also
given me permission to post his infomation on this
Newsgroup. If you call him and see him by all means tell
him Nessa sent you.
--nessa
================================
ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS =============================
from: Nessa (ne...@ix.netcom.com)
Hi,
I often have to rotate my stimulants. You can become used to
them and sometimes need a different one for a while. Until
I got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and Dexedrine every 3
months or so.
It is true that anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills will
help with the stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that a switch from
cylert to something else might be in order.
warm thoughts, Nessa
=============================
=============================================
=============================================
Lois E. (of Gary and Lois fame)
Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for approximately
25 years. This may be a record. Husband is a cop but there is
no evidence that he beats the crap out of her, or that he has
for 25 years.
Had a traumatic experience as a child with a horse running
wild in the Pantry and living room. In recent years, shot
neighbor's dog from point blank range while it was chewing on
her pigmy goat, teaching son to solve problems with the
neighbor's using shock and awe levels of violence."
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted." The good old days. I
actually had a Great Aunt who's father locked her in her
room back in the twenties because she was simple. A shame
that medication probably would have helped her live a normal
life. No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose plans when at
the top of her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't
saying that anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
=============================================
=============================================
Kelly/ culprit
Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two pitbulls,
proving that Bill Gates does not discriminate against crazy
people or pit bull owners.
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming forward so that
others like her will have the strength to do the same. Like
Charlie Wilkes, she is one of our most entertraining
regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally about her mental
illness/crazy problems. Sally is being rude and
condescending (as usual) and trying to make kelly/culprit
feel bad for being crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
Mustang Sally -----------------------------------------------
I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!
"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an illness, major
depression with psychotic features certainly is, panic
disorder is too. and the other stuff just makes it all the
more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to accept it,
because ignoring it wasn't working out too well. i need to
do that to make changes to my life so that i can become
healthy. and you say you're not trying to be condescending,
but you're doing it again. what i read was, (my
paraphrasing) "people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them consume
their life"
you come across as though you would be able to handle any of
these illnesses, and anyone who can't is just copping out.
well we're all different. and i don't accept your idea that
i would have a more productive life if i denied my problems.
i tried it for years, and believe me, it didn't work very
well."
-kelly aka culprit systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------
=============================================
=============================================
MaryBeth FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch lunatic queen of the mentally fucked in
the head)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit results at
several large pharmaceutical corps has taken virtually every
mentally ill (crazy) drug treatment in the book, and then
some: prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax, effexor,
paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers, clomid,
MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS, mood swings,
turned into a hermit, bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid
of her, high blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living through layers and
layers of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight gain,
fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy brain,
lack of concentration..etc. severe depression, severe
insomnia, Panic ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head aka mentally ill)
aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding! aka a superpsychotic
bitch from hell
I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
"I know for a fact I went thru years of being overly
sensitive, being a b*tch, being self centered, being self
pitying, you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over everyone
in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially on a long term
basis, and it's not pretty. You become another person, if
it's not the correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my Rheumatologist told
me that taking Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at times (cyclical)
have severe insomnia, 'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to
see my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
ME NOT SO HORNY
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido into the dead
zone and I had no real emotions, like not laughing at funny
stuff, couldn't cry either.....except about my suicidal
thoughts (but at the time I thought there was no other way
out)."
--MaryBeth
NEW TO GROUP
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today. I talked with
RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction
with Clomid. They reported none. Not sure about the prozac
tho. Gonna poat a new message to intorduce myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>
WASTED 10 YEARS
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost many many
treasured ppl and things. Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
WAS HORRIBLE
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and worse. They
put me on meds for it, and all along kept telling me to wait
on the TKR, as 'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!" The
depression got so bad, and lots of other things happened and
my ex and I would up divorced four years after our move. It
was horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone thru"
--MaryBeth
=============================================
=============================================
Theresa Willis
(paxil, depression, robot displacement) Theresa is a gang
banger who comes out of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly Victim is usually
Leah, but may be a random person.
=============================================
=============================================
shelly couvrette
Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil for mental illness,
but claims she does not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than any other female
in all dog newsgroups
(familial mental illness, possibly related to family bed)
obsessively starves her dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but not herself (see
below). Still thinks of herself as a five year old
ballerina despite the fact that she is a fat adult in her
mid thirties.
PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE
=============================================
=============================================
lynn kosmakos
RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1
(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic, depression) will "put down a
biter as fast as anyone" yet claims to be a saintly dog
rescuer. Murders dogs because of insurance rates Her brother
was attacked by a Golden Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily trainable dogs. Condemns dogs
to death who are easily trainable with her "evaluations." Is
nice to people in person, but her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with extreme clarity.
Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when they chase deer. Sees
no other option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked with a
shock collar to keep him from chasing deer.
has been on lithium for approximately 20 years. Zoloft for an
undetermined number of years
1200mg LITHIUM 50mg ZOLOFT
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
group would be rightfully outraged."
WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of Lithium.
Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I'm qualified to say
that the very low risk of any side effect is far less
frightening than the very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
From: Chris Kosmakos (chri...@netcom.com) Subject: Re: Prozac
- Good medication or no?
I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF
"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems. I would have
to trust my vet and behaviorist a lot, and be very sure
that I had exhausted every other option before I used
Prozac to deal with a dog problem - and I take a similar
drug, Zoloft, myself."
Lynn K.
=============================================
=============================================
Leah
Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being
mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill
medications before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Leah is improving as a dog trainer and
wants to open her own training/boarding kennel soon and
write a book.
This drives her fellow mentally ill regulars nuts (read
shelly Lynn K.), especially if Leah succeeds while other
loonies continue to sit on their fat behinds
Leah is a relatively stable crazy person but she just might
be the agent that drives others to jump off of a cliff
=============================================
=============================================
Tara Green
Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York City left
rpd* claiming that she could not afford internet access and/or
a computer, but her story is of value nonetheless
was on antidepressants for a few years prior to her
marriage. During her marriage, she learned a lot: "With the
therapist I saw during my marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as chemical simply
because of our too human ability to prolong the impact of
the causal situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had problems with other
substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they are separate
issues.....so which camp does that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are alcoholics. I'm
not one of those people, but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
=============================================
=============================================
Kevin Michael Vail
various mental illness drugs, started with zoloft, didn't
like that, then went to antidepressant, stopped after
sufficent side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy Kevin is
a homosexual but there is no evidence that this is the cause
of him being crazy
=============================================
=============================================
Furpaw
(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring and nondescript crazy person
=============================================
=============================================
Chris Jung
(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)
another very boring nutcase
=============================================
=============================================
Charlie Wilkes
drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his life, Christ the shit
he's been through including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash as a business
consultant. Triumphing over adversity, with a damn good life
and a well trained dog (very much unlike Leah) One of our
most lucid regulars, despite (or maybe because of?) a
penchant for phat philly blunts.
=============================================
=============================================
Karen DuChateaux aka Karibear
suffered from clinical depression for years until some drug
or something brought her out of it. Some of her best friends
"are certifiable" and have various degrees of psychoses.
Familial mental disability. Refuses to say whether or not
she is currently using drug or cognitive therapy for mental
illness.
=============================================
=============================================
Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort
threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe with Mike's
fully armed US Army Platoon. Threatened to bring his platoon
to Jerry's HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
=============================================
=============================================
Jim "Brain Shivers" Sabatke
Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes because of his
depression/mental problems. Like many of our mental cases,
Jim has had trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting the "brain
shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke (jsab...@execpc.com) Subject: Re:
anyone using Effexor? alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR "I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked wonders for
me. The only down side is that my blood pressure has
elevated somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a couple of
hours the "brain shivers" can be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about 5 months ago. I
tapered off of the Paxil and tapered onto the Effexor at
the same time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my pdoc tried switching
me to XR. I experienced fairly severe Effexor withdrawel
until I went back to the IR."
Jim
=============================================
=============================================
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental
illness is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if
you have a defective brain which may cause you to act like an
extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or robot without your being
aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
and remove you from the crazy person list.
===========================================
mental health weekly
-- This has been a production of dogtv.com networks your world
leader in dog entertraining
this is michael reporting live... from dogtv.com networks
http://dogtv.com
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.
========================================================
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING
EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding weight to her.
six months later i took harriet in for her spring check-up
and my vet was surprised that at how thin she still was."
--shelly couvrette
STILL VET SHOPPING
"<raises hand> i've been told by three different vets that
harriet (53lbs) is *way* too skinny. we're still
vet-shopping, BTW."
--shelly couvrette
THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give him some
frozen green beans or a small amount of plain pureed
pumpkin. i would also suggest putting the food out of his
sight. i keep my food--still inside the bags, which are
tightly rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps it out of my
dogs' sight."
--shelly couvrette
POSITIVELY STARVED
"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved to death.
i've actually had people stop me in the pet supply shop and
tell me that i need to fatten her up!"
--shelly couvrette
WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're hurting your
.widdle precious? i think the other part is that some vets
really don't *realize* that what they consider proper
weight is fat. after having been told by a couple of vets
that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim view of vets on
that topic."
--shelly couvrette
JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom
FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR ARM OFF, BITCH
--shelly
"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny, so feeding her
table snax is okay. she tells me that just a bite won't
hurt."
--shelly couvrette
NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY
NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET AND TELL HER SHE IS
STARVING HERSELF shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================
There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve
their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.
shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale
Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
measuring cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
that she gives her dogs when they give her the "I'm Starving"
routine. When grandma tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly
probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her
Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into
her widdle precious' mouth.
shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser
---------------------------------------------------------------
--- --------------
this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
copyright 2003 dogtv.com networks you are free to reproduce
this list
The Puppy Wizard
abHOWET SAR work... her dog is RETIRED
from SAR after many years of TRAINING for it...
"sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c00tkm$10edqp$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> > Of course. Basic training is not difficult, as reflected in
all of
> > those books.
>
> I'm wondering how many books Charlie's read on Schutzhund, or
agility, or
> tracking, or SAR, or trick training... you don't have to be
involved in
> those sports to get value from reading them.
> The most interesting book I've had my hands on recently is
"Schutzhund
> Obdience: Training in Drive"- and I have no intention of ever
doing
> Schutzhund.
> (It's an autographed copy, btw- Sheila donated a copy to the
raffle at our
> NADAC fall trial, which she was running a couple of her dogs in.
Nice lady,
> with *awesome* dogs. )
>
> >The fun is at the extremes of behavior and higher level
> > or specific purpose training. It can get complicated. And
more
> > interesting.
>
> Yep.
> Charlie, have you ever actually trained a dog to do anything
beyond basic
> everyday manners?
>
>
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<f80320tt9d8n013vg...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > How many dog-trainers have a professional degree
> > in dog-training or behavioral science?
You mean like professor SCRUFF SHAKE and all
the other EXXXPERTS The Puppy Wizard has
IDENTIFIED, EXXXPOSAED as DOG ABUSERS
and DISCREDITED???
> Heh. You haven't worked with many really good
> trainers, have you?
Like yourself, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn? Or
like your pal FRAUDreck?
> They can master the skills required by the animals
> they have met.
You mean, like in SAR work, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
Or in your anti psychotic drug induced dreams?
> But they are also limited in knowledge by
> the animals they have met.
That so? You mean like when you fail to take
your ANTI PSYCHOTIC medications and suffer
a psychotic break from reality?
> Hence the value of experience:
Like in your SAR work?
> exposure to enough dogs that there's
> always a new one presenting a new challenge.
You NEED a lotta dogs cause you MURDER those
you can't hurt and intimidate enough to WORK. Like
your SAR dog JIVE. BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> > Bah. The first thing I discovered when I started
> > reading dog-training books is that they all cover
> > the same ground, and nothing ever gets very
> > complicated.
Except that they can't train EVERY dog... like The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wtis' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT RIGHT HERE.
> Of course. Basic training is not difficult, as reflected
> in all of those books.
THEN HOWE COME WE MURDER FIVE MILLION
DEAD DOGS A YEAR OVER BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS?
> The fun is at the extremes of behavior and
> higher level or specific purpose training.
You mean, like SAR work?
> It can get complicated.
INDEEDY! That's HOWE COME you can't train
your SELECTIVELY BRED hand picked and
tested and meticulHOWESLY trained RETIRED
SAR dog JIVE.
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> And more interesting.
LUCKY THING you're in charge of the left coast SAR office...
> Lynn K.
HOWEDY People,
What you WON't see here abHOWETS are
HOWER DOG LOVERS DENYING their
long term incurable MENTAL HEALTH CASE
HISTORIES.
HOWEDY dog lovers,
Form Follows Function - The End Of The Circle
We've been goin rHOWEND and rHOWEND
abHOWET shock Vs pronged spike choke Vs
slip choke Vs pronged spiked choke Vs shock
Vs hanging Vs slip choke Vs shock Vs pronged
spiked pinch choke collar "training" Vs hanging
till there ain't noMOORE BULLSHIT to go rHOWEND:
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help."
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV
NHOWE we've come to the ONLY logical
conclusion: "When is euth. warranted?"
Well dog lovers, THAT'S HOWE COME
The Puppy Wizard came here abHOWETS
to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE DISCREDIT and
DISPATCH HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog
Sbusing Punk Thug Coward MENTAL PATIENTS.
You CANNOT lock your MENTALLY ILL SIMPLETON'S
in a closet and expect them not to get loose and BREED
noMOORE than you can expect to continue breeding
stock that produces MENTALLY ILL SIMPLETONS
that you'll have to lock in a closet so they won't breed:
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
From: Gary & lois Edwards (ga...@bmi.net)
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person update,
including our latest mentally unstable person, Lois E.
of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation
on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on
mental illness medications combined:
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
---------------------
The Puppy Wizard
"sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c01197$123mbv$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >
> > Of course. Basic training is not difficult, as reflected
> > in all of those books.
>
> Another point on that- unless, of course, you run
> into one of those dogs who doesn't respond to the
> methods in the books, or responds in a different
> way to the expected,
Oh? You mean like a stoic dog who doesn't
SHOW you that IT is HURT and AFRAID?:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
Or like the Labrador puppy you assaulted and battered?:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> or doesn't respond to all the usual things you've done
> with dogs like that before,
You mean like this?:
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
> or..... . ;-)
Or like THIS?:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
> Any trainers really worth their salt (and I'm including
> people who train their own dogs) will tell you that they
> learn more from the dogs than from anything else...
Oh? You mean like THIS:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> and that they've run into dogs they had to adapt their
> methods for.
Oh? You mean like professor dermer?:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
> In agility, it's a truism
You mean, it's not REALLY true?
> that some people are good handlers/trainers -
Like you and your lying dog abusing mentally ill pals?
> but only with particular breeds whose thinking/reacting
> style matches the handler.
That so? You mean like THIS?:
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE
Well, what you need is some puppy raising tips:
END lyingfrosty dahl
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
Psychoclown wrote:
amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> >Di,
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
>> -snip headers etc.
>Richard
========================================================
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its
The Puppy Wizard
"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:4024098F...@ig.utexas.edu...
>
>
> Robin Nuttall wrote:
>
> > Besides, you can certainly Q
> > in AKC with a forged, bumpy heel. You won't
> > make top scores, but you can title.
>
> Robin I overlooked this part of your message. I am
> glad to hear this. But I do want to work on getting
> this much less sloppy with Rez.
BWEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Though truthfully Blade can do a pretty good job of
> heeling. Much better then some I have seen. Some
> Schutzhund people have taught their dogs so much
> too look in their eyes during heeling
BWEEHHAHAHHAHAAA!!!!
> A dog can't look in it's handler's eyes and not end
> up sort of in front of them or bumping into them.
Or fallin into a hole or walkin into a pole.
Perhaps you should ask Master Of Deception
to tell you HOWE she FINALLY taught her dog
to heel? She read her FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual. Then she plagiarized it but only
posted on that subject WON time, cause The
Puppy Wizard CAUGHT her.
> Gwen
"Greg M. Silverman" <gmsN...@no.umn.edu> wrote in message
Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.
And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--
--------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work.
He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks,
N
=========
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
===================
The Puppy Wizard
If the book is SO "GRAND," HOWE COME
you STILL GOT THE SAME SAME SAME
SAME PROBLEMS you've ALWAYS HAD?
HOWE COME YOU STILL SHOCK and JERK
and CHOKE YOUR DOGS on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars?
Either the book FAILED or YOU'RE AN IMBECILE.
You got a university degree. That MEANS you AIN'T
a IMBECILE.
That MEANS, THE BOOK FAILED.
Or, you failed to follow the GRAND DESIGN
HOWEtlined in the book.
What's it gonna be, gwen honey?
SOMEWON IS MISTAKEN.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:40240714...@ig.utexas.edu...
>
>
> sionnach wrote:
>
> >
> > The most interesting book I've had my hands on recently is
"Schutzhund
> > Obdience: Training in Drive"- and I have no intention of ever
doing
> > Schutzhund.
> >
>
> Oh I love that book. That is my most favorite book. It is grand.
>
> And you really don't need to do Schutzhund to utilize the
> grand drive channeling philosphies in the book.
>
> It is one of the most excellently written books, IMO.
>
> Gwen
>
>
>
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:lrcb20tavfdm24bfs...@4ax.com...
> On 7 Feb 2004 17:15:57 -0800, jav...@yahoo.com (Lynn K.) wrote:
>
> >Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<l8982014t0khvkba1...@4ax.com>...
> >
> >
> >> A lot of people here, including Janet Boss and
> >> Spinach, appear to operate on a completely different set of
> >> principles, driven more by their attitude than by what is
most
> >> effective.
> >
> >Nope. I think you don't really understand how these things are
put
> >into practice.
> >
> >
> >> I do not believe any of the people whose books I have read
recently
> >> would suggest that daily grooming of a dog who has just
snapped at
> >> it's owner during a grooming, is a good idea. The sources at
my
> >> disposal say DON'T gratuitously repeat a situation that
causes a dog
> >> to behave aggressively. Change the way you interact with the
dog to
> >> change the dog's responses, slowly and carefully.
> >
> >You'd be wrong. I'd have that dog on the grooming table
several times
> >a day, and I'd bet any number of other trainers would, too.
I'd feed
> >the dog on the grooming table. I'd brush and treat for 1
minute, then
> >2, then 3. IOW, desensitize the dog and build tolerance.
>
> A good way to get more success stories like Teena, eh?
>
> Charlie
Be SHORE to read Baghad Bob's discussion below:
HOWEDY People,
Here's Rehabilitation:
POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT Vs
Positive Reinforcement
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Questions on rehabilitation was Re: To Dogman
Date: 1999/11/10
Marilyn Rammell wrote:
> It certainly does appear that your world has
> harsher realities - you say that for every 'one'
> dog you take into your program, 'FIVE' others die!!!
The numbers are specific to German Shepherd
Rescue in No. California, which is why they are
so high.
That is not true of the other breed rescue I'm
involved with, Border Collies. It's a reflection
both of the downside of a very popular breed,
and how ill-prepared many people are to deal
with an active large dog.
The sad fact is that the shelters are full of
GSDs and we don't have the foster homes
to take them all out of the shelters.
So we limit ourselves to taking those that are
scheduled to be put down, and even then, can
only save some.
> Fear Aggression towards other dogs,
> (and/or people), Separation problems
> and/or phobic behaviours.
The most common profile is a dog between 8
and 18 months old, that was picked up as a stray
and unclaimed, with no evidence of any training.
In our rescue, we don't see any real difference in
the numbers of males vs. females. Separation
anxiety is the norm, largely as a result of the dog's
recent experiences where we get them.
But the real behavior problem are the exception,
rather than the norm.
> Confrontational methods 'to turn a dog around'
> with these dogs would be far from beneficial.
Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
It's a safety necessity.
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
> Can you please explain "spending months building
> the dog from the ground up" What method do you
> use that takes months?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
Every dog is different, and their problems are different,
and many take time. We just had a very fearful 4 month
old that we didn't put up for adoption for 6 weeks because
it took that long to build her confidence.
I've got an older foster now - dog aggressive, starved
to the point of muscle loss and food protective, dominant,
an escape artist and roamer, totally untrained.
I'd love to be able to have 4 months to turn him into
the spectacular dog I know he can be. But I don't
have the luxury of that time.
Instead I've had to do what I can in 2 weeks. That
means correcting him for issuing fight challenges
rather than careful desensitization, confronting him
about food protection rather than letting it subside
naturally, and minimal obedience training limited to
housebreaking, cratetraining, allowing himself to be
handled, sit, down, stay, and leash manners.
And carefully placing him in a home I feel can do
the rest that needs to be done. (He goes to that
home on Sunday.)
> I too would like the answers to Anonymous's
> questions (below)
I didn't answer those because I think that Anon.
post was Jerry Howe.
Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't mean
Koehler when I used the term "confrontational".
Using compulsion may have been a more accurate
way to put it. It is simply a necessity, rather than a
choice.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
For example, the newly neutered dog-aggressive
foster I described above. I'd prefer to give him time
to heal, keep him away from other dogs, then carefully
monitor interactions, positively reinforcing him for non-reaction.
But he had to come into my home, with 2 other dogs,
immediately from the shelter and surgery. A small
enough home that keeping dogs competely separated
is impossible. So I had to do things like put him on a
tiedown as my own dogs moved through the room and
verbally correct him when he challenged them.
> Lynn K. wrote:
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >
> >>Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
> >>In the posts below you take responsibility for making those
> >> calls.
>
> >>In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people
who had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed every
>>adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
>>condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who had to
>>make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K. --------------------------------------
From: Chris Kosmakos (chri...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility for
: their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM
-----------------------------------------
Do I think the dog is damaged by it? Not really.
It isn't ideal, but he's alive and will make a decent pet.
Lynn K.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<l8982014t0khvkba1...@4ax.com>...
>
>
> > A lot of people here, including Janet Boss and
> > Spinach, appear to operate on a completely different set of
> > principles, driven more by their attitude than by what is most
> > effective.
>
> Nope. I think you don't really understand how
> these things are put into practice.
Right. YOU GET PAID for MURDERING dogs.
> > I do not believe any of the people whose
> > books I have read recently would suggest
> > that daily grooming of a dog who has just
> > snapped at it's owner during a grooming,
> > is a good idea.
You mean like pickin up a dog that don't want
to be handled to take IT to the vet to see HOWE
COME IT don't want to be handled... before TRAININ
IT so IT TRUSTS being HANDLED.
> > The sources at my disposal say DON'T
> > gratuitously repeat a situation that causes
> > a dog to behave aggressively.
Like pickin up a dog that don't want to be handled
to take IT to the vet to see HOWE COME IT don't
LIKE to be handled by someWON IT DON'T TRUST?
> > Change the way you interact with the dog to
> > change the dog's responses, slowly and carefully.
Well, we can do that NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE.
> You'd be wrong.
You'd be derranged, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> I'd have that dog on the grooming table several times
> a day, and I'd bet any number of other trainers would, too.
Like sue sternberg.
> I'd feed the dog on the grooming table.
The groomin table got NUTHIN to do with
MISTRUSTING his owner.
> I'd brush and treat for 1 minute, then
> 2, then 3. IOW, desensitize the dog
> and build tolerance.
Groomin ain't the problem. MISHANDLING
and ABUSING THE DOG is HOWE COME
IT BITES.
> Lynn K.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Gwen Watson <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:<40240640...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> >
> > And the heeling method in AKC is definitely
> > different style.
Heelin is heelin.
> Yes, but it is really a judging style,
That so? You mean as to whether the dog
is HEELIN or NOT? That's HOWE the dog
is JUDGED, not by whether IT is lookin up
for the liver in between your lips.
> not a difference in the requirements.
You got the book. CITES PLEASE.
> That's why you'll see no difference in the training
> methods in a ScH. book vs. an AKC Obed. book.
> The exercise is the same, but the application is a
> bit different.
CITES PLEASE.
> A wonderful example of why you can't train
> exclusively from books.
BWEEEEHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> Lynn K.
You're full of crap. You're a liar and a dog
abuser and you can't post here abHOWETS
noMOORE.
The Puppy Wizard
of soronson's Retreivers aka joey finnochiario, moderator
of HOWER HIV forum where HIV is NOT CONTAGIHOWES
and unprotected sex amongst homosexuals is encouraged
cause HIV is a SCAM put HOWET by pharmacutical companies
to rip off Uncle Sam,
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <invalid> wrote in message
news:lqpc2018g7oft7u4f...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:19:01 -0500, "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> []
> >Let me ask you something-
sinofabitch is a liar and dog abuser and mental case.
The Puppy Wizard ain't gonna tolerate liars and dog
abusers on HIS FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forum. Mental cases are welcome
HOWEver, so long as they don't advocate HURTIN
dogs to train them.
> > in your mythical scenario above, how do you
> > propose to feed the dog, let the dog get exercise
> > and eliminate, and move around your household?
If we don't HURT and INTIMIDATE a dog IT ain't
gonna HURT YOU... remember, they're only furry
woodslands creatures that are MOORE afraid of
US than WE are of them:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS TURN ON PEOPLE.
> The dog would be left pretty much to its own devices,
Yeah... you mean instead of THIS:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
> primarily responsible for guarding Doper Charlie's
> latest marijuana crop
Whatever... Certainly THAT would be better than THIS:
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
> and/or maybe just running loose out in the
> boondocks somewhere.
You mean, INSTEAD of THIS:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
> Doper Charlie might even bother to put food out for
> him regularly (at least when he remembered to),
For SHORE. Them dope freaks always have the munchies.
> on those rare days when he wasn't out
> and about, arranging drug deals.
You mean instead of THIS:
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
> But the first time the dog snapped at him or actually bit him
You mean, for doin THIS?:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
> (and there's a 100% certainty of that happening),
NO PROBLEMO! He'd just do THIS:
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
> you'd hear the sound of a gun going off, and then,
> presto, no more dog.
NOT if his dog was like THIS:
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
> No muss. No fuss.
You mean, like this?:
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
> And no witnesses.
Oh? You mean like The Puppy Wizard..
NO PROBLEMO.
The Puppy Wizard will NEVER TELL.
> Scumbag.
Oh? You mean, like THIS:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall dermer.
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Oh, bye the bye, you can't post here abHOWETS
noMOORE. Figger it HOWET, eh tommy?
It's OVER.
Like THIS:
HOWEDY People
HOWE COME it's HOWER EXXXPERTS who
know HOWE to JERK and CHOKE and SHOCK
dogs to train them that likeWIZE, know WHEN TO
MURDER THEM?
Think abHOWET it.
That's all for NHOWE.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43...@earthlink.net>
rhur...@earthlink.net writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and scream "NO!" into its face for 5
seconds," dermer:
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<22kc205lfdle0q9r4...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > But, there are effective ways of dealing with neurotic dogs,
The Puppy Wizard has NO PROBLEM for rehabilitating
ALL temperament and behavior problems withHOWET
HURTIN or MURDERIN dogs. In over forty years of
SPECIALIZING in temperament and protection problems
mostly in giant breeds The Puppy Wizard has NEVER
MURDERED a dog and NEVER FAILED to rehabilitate
them NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> Uhm, don't confuse neurotic dogs and those who make rules
Dogs only respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL
INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations and
circumstances of their environment which WE create for them.
> they are willing to enforce with their teeth.
Dogs do not MAKE RULES. They REFLEX to FEAR when
they DEFEND THEMSELVES from their abusers.
> NOT the same thing at all.
ALL behavior problems are the SAME SAME SAME
SAME, they're just wearin different clothes.
> > forcing them to accept handling they don't
> > like is NOT how you do it.
Right.
> WHOOSH! There go desensitization,
> counter-conditioning, and flooding.
> (hardly what I'd call "forcing" techniques)
What YOU call STUFF and what NORMAL
people call STUFF are two different things
cause you're a PROVEN PATHOLOGICAL
LIAR and dog abuser.
> Lynn K.
Heelin is heelin.
CITES PLEASE.
BWEEEEHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> Lynn K.
abuser and you can't post here abHOWETS
noMOORE.
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
The Puppy Wizard
>
>
> "Lynn K." wrote:
>
> > Gwen Watson <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:<40240640...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> > >
> > > And the heeling method in AKC is definitely different
> > > style.
> >
> > requirements. That's why you'll see no difference in the
training
> > methods in a ScH. book vs. an AKC Obed. book. The exercise is
the
> > same, but the application is a bit different.
> >
books.
> >
>
> Indeed Lynn. Which I certainly *couldn't* do in the first place.
> I am one of those that needs/requires hands on instructions.
>
> Gwen
training knowledge vs training skills
Date: 2003-10-15 11:25:53 PST
HOWEDY tara o.,
"Tara O." <boxe...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:bmk16u$n3dgv$1...@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> I'm the same with my own dogs.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you MURDERED
your DEAD DOG Summer.
> I can work with fosters and have them go to
> adoption being at least 75% consistent on basic
> commands.
IOW, UNTRAINED.
> My own dogs are a different story.
You HURT and KILL dogs and LIE abHOWET it, tara o..
> They know that if they don't obey me
BWEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> the worst that will happen is
YOU'LL HURT OR KILL THEM.
> being ignored
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME they do likeWIZE
to you, tara o.. It's called allelomimetic behavior.
> or getting a timeout.
You mean, rejection and confinement to a box
to teach IT good manners like HOWE professor
SCRUFF SHAKE recommends.
> Both know it won't last
They DON'T CARE, tara o..
> and that they'll still be on the furniture cuddling at the end
of the day.
Despite your efforts to train them not to get up on the cHOWECH.
> When I'm dead serious,
You HURT and KILL them.
> both will obey,
NO. That's HOWE COME you KILL THEM.
> but if I don't have that certain tone
INTIMIDATION...
> and posture,
THREATENING.
> they'll *think* about whether or not they feel like complying.
Cause they don't know if you'll HURT THEM someMOORE.
> Tara
That's HOWE COME your DEAD DOG Summer became
FEAR AGGRESSIVE of small children and then you MURDERED
HER.
Here's HOWE your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn explains
HURTIN dogs to train them:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
> - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
>
> Lynn K.
================
> lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
> depression) will "put down a biter
> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
> be a saintly dog rescuer
> Lynn K. wrote:
>
> "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
> one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
> schedules and duties causes a great deal of
> scheduling overhead.
>
> And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
> volunteers get the meaningful experience that
> they work for.
>
> Someone has to be responsible for that
> Volunteer Program, and it is best done
> by a non-volunteer."
>
> Lynn K.
> ---------------------------------
>
> "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
> every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
> effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
> older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>
> Should I have refused to groom them?
>
> Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
> had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>
> Lynn K.
> --------------------------------------
>
> Is that a MENTAL CASE or NOT?
> NHOWE here she's gonna lie abHOWET IT:
>
> Lynn K. wrote:
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >
> >>Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
> >>In the posts below you take responsibility for making those
> >> calls.
> >>In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Questions on rehabilitation was Re: To Dogman
Date: 1999/11/10
Marilyn Rammell wrote:
> It certainly does appear that your world has
> harsher realities - you say that for every 'one'
> dog you take into your program, 'FIVE' others die!!!
The numbers are specific to German Shepherd
Rescue in No. California, which is why they are
so high.
That is not true of the other breed escue I'm
It's a safety necessity.
> Can you please explain "spending months building
> the dog from the ground up" What method do you
> use that takes months?
Every dog is different, and their problems are different,
For example, the newly neutered dog-aggressive
foster I described above. I'd prefer to give him time
to heal, keep him away from other dogs, then carefully
monitor interactions, positively reinforcing him for non-reaction.
But he had to come into my home, with 2 other dogs,
immediately from the shelter and surgery. A small
enough home that keeping dogs competely separated
is impossible. So I had to do things like put him on a
tiedown as my own dogs moved through the room and
verbally correct him when he challenged them.
Do I think the dog is damaged by it? Not really.
The Puppy Wizard
"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c082uv$13tjrc$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Emily Carroll" <carr...@nospam.msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:c07a1s$2btc$1...@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
> >
> > > I ordered the book you recommended, BTW.
> > > We'll have to see what your esteemed colleague
>> > at the San Fransciso SPCA has to say about resource
> > > guarding and how to deal with it. I wonder if she
> > > recommends a protracted reach toward the guarded
> > > object while doing zen-breathing?
> >
> > Why is the fact that you bought a book such a big
> > deal to you, out of curiousity?
Perhaps ~emily should read the thread?
> Because he thinks he's going to get the book,
And find your recommendations not there...
> become an instant expert,
While charlie has digressed considerably since
polluting his mind with faerie tail methods involving
bribery, he inherently knows better than to provoke
a dog to attack and then murder IT for doin what
comes natural to an animal.
> and be able to come in here and tell everyone they're
> all wrong. :-D
Naah. The Puppy Wizard has done that already.
> 'Course he makes himself look silly by doing that
> all the time anyway,
No. He's gonna make hisself look silly for talkin
business with proven pathological liars and dog
abusers.
> so nobody's going to notice or care.
The dog abusers and liars don't care cause
they're MENTALLY ILL. NORMAL people
would NEVER continue postin after bein
proven to be liars and dog abusers.
THAT'S HOWE COME you got The Puppy Wizard.
> He's also convEEEEEENienly ignoring (or maybe
> it's just his lack of short-term memory kicking in again)
> everything but a couple of small taken-out-of-context
You mean quoted LIES.
> bits of what those of us he wants to "prove wrong"
Ain't hard to prove you wrong when you lie. You
just continue withHOWET a bump.
> wrote... I'm quite willing to bet that a lot of what's in
> Donaldson's books jibes with the method shelly and
> I have used (and described) of "trading up",
That's INSANE.
> and I'm willing to bet that she also recommends
> at least one of the methods that I used to deal
> with food-guarding.
That's what charlie is lookin for.
> Charlie's like the five blind men who saw the
> elephant- he keeps grabbing hold of small bits,
> misinterpreting them, and getting things wrong. <G>
THAT'S HOWE COME he's trying to figger it HOWET.
Meanwhile, try this:
The Puppy Wizard
news:<40240640...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> >
> > And the heeling method in AKC is definitely different
> > style.
>
> Yes, but it is really a judging style, not a difference in the
> requirements. That's why you'll see no difference in the
training
> methods in a ScH. book vs. an AKC Obed. book. The exercise is
the
> same, but the application is a bit different.
>
> A wonderful example of why you can't train exclusively from
books.
>
> Lynn K.
You're full of crap.
Date: 2003-07-12 04:56:00 PST
HOWEDY jo,
"Jo Wolf" <jo-...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22567-3F0...@storefull-2151.public.lawson.webtv.net...
:
> Heel is a precision position with total concentration
> on the person on the other end of the leash.
You mean, a unconditional loyalty kinda lookin up
for a bribe while walkin?
> It is NOT going for a pleasant walk.
That so? You don't know HOWE to train a dog to heel.
> I don't introduce it to my youngters until they can already walk
> on a short lead without pulling on the lead at all.
That so? You mean, in like five minutes or so? That's HOWE
LONG it might take if you was GREEN at The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method.
> And I don't do much with it until they are MUCH older than
> your puppy.
CAUS YOU GOT TO CHOKE THE DOG AND YOU CAN'T
TILL ITS FOUR MONTHS OLD, ACCORDIN TO LYING FROSTY DAHL.
> You want to go for a pleasant walk.
Till ITS older and you can make a UNPLEASANT WALK?
> You don't know how to get there from here.
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
YOU MEAN, YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE.
> Sign up for a basic obedience class.
Oh. With a EXXXPERT LIKE YOU?
> You will learn and you will train your dog in class,
You mean, it's WON of them things you got to learn
at the heel of a MASTER, like a secret society ritual?
> then in SHORT daily practice sessions between classes.
You don't care to tell us HOWE?
> (Some instructors call walking on a loose lead heeling...
> but it isn't...
Right... some experts who he'll find in his town... like YOU.
> It's walking on a loose lead and has a simple
> command like "let's go" or "with me".)
O.K. Thank you. The Puppy Wizard doesn't play grab
ass with nincompoop half wits.
> Sometimes a dog is pulling so hard that to prevent injury,
From you CHOKIN IT, jo?
> one of the collars you have categorically stated you won't
> use is exactly the tool needed to prevent injury to dog and
> to you.
SEE? THAT'S HOWE COME YOU GOT TO GET THE HEEL
HOWETA THIS BUSINESS. YOU'RE A DOG ABUSER.
> The goal is always to retire the various training collars
VARIHOWES?
> and use only a Snug buckle type collar.
SNUG? You mean, so IT won't SLIP HOWET WHEN YOU DRAG
AND JERK AND CHOKE THE DOG?
> Did you know that the most dangerous training collar is the
> chain "choke" collar?
DID YOU KNOW IT'S IMBECILES LIKE YOU WHO GET DOGS
AND PEOPLE LIKE DIANE WHIPPLE AND THEM TWO MASTIFFS
HURT AND DEAD?
> Jo Wolf
> Martinez, Georgia
GET HOWETA THIS BUSINESS.
Show your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn HOWE to do it:
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------
you were saying?
You're a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.0402...@posting.google.com...
> "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<c082uv$13tjrc$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> > Because he thinks he's going to get the book,
> > become an instant expert,
The only book that CONSISTENTLY produces
EXXXPERTS is The Pupp Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> > and be able to come in here and tell everyone
> > they're all wrong. :-D
All we gotta do is QUOTE YOU to PROVE you're
always, ALL WRONG.
> Nope - he's going to read Jean's book,
If jean's book was any good we wouldn't be havin
this DISS-CUSSION cause you'd be able to have
told kwbrown HOWE to train her dog so she wouldn'ta
HAD TO MURDER IT.
> totally misinterpret what it says,
At least disciple charlie woulda been able to find
the chapter on beating choking and hanging dogs
to HOWEsbreak them.
> and then argue with everyone about why his
> interpretation is correct.
Or perhaps he'll just QUOTE the book and then
there won't be no argument abHOWET what it
SEZ. Oooops! The Puppy Wizard almost FORGOT
what we're dealin with here abHOWETS, where
PRINTED WORDS DON'T CHOWENT.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE YOUR OWN.
You're a pack of pathological liars and dog abusers.
> > 'Course he makes himself look silly by doing
> > that all the time anyway, so nobody's going to
> > notice or care.
Cause they get bagged for lyin all the time here abHOWETS.
> I care.
INDEED?
> I'm looking forward to it.
You don't care abHOWET gettin caught LYIN
cause you do all the time. You just continue
like you was a expert and ignore gettin caught.
AnyWON in their right mind would be too embarrassed
to continue postin here. THAT'S HOWE COME you're
what we call a CERTIFIED MENTAL CASE.
> I saw Jean yesterday
That so? Did you ask her HOWE COME you
can't FORCE your "SAR" dog JIVE to WORK?
Even in your past discussion with the folks from BAD
RAP, you got bagged lyin by them to boot, yet you
continued your maliciHOWES lies.
> and we chatted about Charlie's interpretation of
> "confrontation". This is going to be fun.
Did jean teach you to do this?:
"To Dcourage Her From Chasing, You Want To Use A Distraction Like
An ELECTRONIC COLLAR, Shake Can,
Throw Chain, Or Discs. When She Alerts And Is Just
Starting For A Colt, Use The Distraction Device. Don't
Say Anything" lynn
Since you're so close to jean perhaps you'll advise
her that The Puppy Wizard would LOVE to discuss
trainin with her cause NONE of her "students" can
train their own dogs... like YOU and Helle, for EXXXAMPLE.
> Lynn K.
Subject: Re: Multi Dogs and The Fight For Position -
- With The Trainer! -
The Dogs Are Victims, Reflexing To And Following
The Trainer's Ineffective Inapupriate Actions And
Attitudes.
Hello lying "I love koehler" lynn,
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.01122...@posting.google.com...
> "Paul B" <pan...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<3c2a...@clear.net.nz>...
> > Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous
> > suggestions at all,
>
> Really?
Yeah, really! You'll notice there's nothing similar to
what you'll find in your koehler book sitting on your
lap. I'll include some good koehler training below,
so we'll all "be on the same page." Of course you'll
say nobody uses THAT part of your koehler book,
on account of WHAAAAT??? You don't use the parts
of the koehler book that are .... umm... let's see, older
than but still used by? Millions of dog lovers who couldn't
be wrong?
> How do you feel about the suggestion on page 32
> to train a dog who shrinks away from strangers who
> try to pat him to do bitework?
That's a good one. There is no mention of bitework
in my manual...
> JH suggests that a fearful dog would gain confidence
> from learning to bite on command.
Correct, rather than just kill it for being aggressive.
> I fail to see how that would help a dog who is simply headshy,
By teaching them confidence.
> and strongly disagree with the premise.
That's because you beat shock and choke protection
dogs. That's all you know HOWE to do, is inflict pain
to try to dominate dogs by intimidation.
You said you can't understand HOWE I can train
a protection dog without "PROOFING" it. Proofing
means BEATING SWITCHING AND FLANKING
the dog.
> Teaching an unstable or weak temperamented
> dog to bite goes against every ethical premise
> I know.
EXACTLY. You have no ethics or principles,
you're a dog abusing lying Thug.
> And is a dangerous suggestion.
You hurt and kill dogs and call that training. Your
pal tara just killed her dog Summer. Your pal
Robert Crim killed his dog Fritz. And he'll tell you
he's learned better than that from me... and he'll
never choke his dog again.
> Or how about his suggested "Alpha Roll" where
> you establish dominance by standing over a
> relaxed dog, bending down and reaching behind
> his ears?
Yes, a fine example of alpha behavior.
> Part II of the manual is just plain wrong on just
> about everything,
Right. That's HOWE your pal blackman suddenly
ended her five year battle with her out of control
leash puller. My heeling pattern exercise cures
all kinds of anxiety problems, including paw licking
granulomas and side sucking or self mutilation.
> with hand and foot signals that counteract the
> intended command to be taught (take a look at Stay).
PERFECTION.
> But they are just insipid and confusing to a dog,
No, they're confusing to you because there's no
choking and jerking and shocking, so it don't look
like there's no training in there. Problem is, you're
looking for the part where we pull and choke on
the leash to find the training. You got to look at the
parts where we don't pull and choke on the leash
to see the training.
> not dangerous.
Right. Confusing. That's HOWE COME your pal
blackman was finally able to train her dog to heel
after jerking and choking IT for five years. Ask
her, she'll tell you off the board. If you'd prefer, I'll
just pull up her post instructing someone HOWE
to train their dog to heel. Funny, her own dog just
happened to straighten out when she used my method.
> There's no denying that there are indeed dangerous
> suggestions in the manual, however.
Like which? CITES PLEASE?
The part where we hang the hoodlum dog? The
part where we suspend a dog from a hitch on the
ceiling to beat IT every twenty minutes for pooing
on the floor? That's in the koehler book, I'll quote
it below for ya. Here's "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
talking about my methods being dangerous...and
endorsing hanging and beating dogs for poo on the
floor.
> Frankly, the one I consider most dangerous of
> all is the stuff in his ads for the magic soundbox
> that repeatedly states that training is unnecessary.
Yeah. Ask Misty. My machine just cured her Cockatoo
of biting her son and sqwaking... and it stops territorial
aggression and spraying in kats. And it cures hyperactivity
in dogs. And it's 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed
FOREVER.
> Lynn K.
From: Jerry Howe (jho...@bellsouth.net)
Subject: Herding Horses + Dogs Chasing Horses -
Life + Death + HOWE Dogs Learn
Date: 2001-09-08 01:16:10 PST
Hello People,
A lot of you probably think it's EZ for me to sit here and
belittle and disparage and prove our "experts" couldn't find
their arses with both hands even if I was directing them
myself. That's O.K., your dog ain't in that fight.
But your dog is in this one, on account of this is why you
can't get the INFORMATION you need to achieve the degree of
proficiency that you need from your dogs in whatever field of
work or problem behavior you're interested in training.
The following will show a couple fundamental errors our
"experts" who need to choke and shock dogs make that causes
their methods to fail their dogs, and provoke them to do
despicable things to their dogs and then be so embarrassed and
ashamed they're compelled deny their own published work.
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Help! Aust.Sheperd herding colts!
> Date: 1999/06/19
>
> Trudi Rioux wrote:
> > Hi. I'm new here and don't even know if this is the right
> > place.
>
> Welcome, and yes, this is the right place.
>
Mmmm, maybe not for all of us, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
>
> > But.....if it is....I have 2 yr old Aust. sheperd female,
> > herding colts while I'm training. I need advice re
> > training me to train her.
Sounds like our OP is working with training horses???
Sounds like fun.
> You have to do 2 separate things: deny her the
> opportunity to chase
EXCUSE ME? HOWE do you train a dog to NOT
do something you're restricting him from being
able to do?
YOU CAN'T.
You need to have the dog aware of what you're
training him not to do. You're saying to lock the
dog up and avoid the problem.
> and convince her that chasing is not something
> she wants to do.
Whoa! Dogs EAT horses. They're TASTEY. Dogs
think of horses as canned meat on the hoof. Chase
is the dog's middle name, did you know that?
> The very 1st thing is to secure her while you're
> training so she can't chase when you are
> preoccupied and can't work with her.
You mean restraining Vs letting the dog molest the colts? I
suppose if that's your only option. But tying the dog may
cause the dog to become aggitated. If he's watching critters
movin and wants to play with them and is restricted, that's a
recipe for an aggressive dog.
> This is important because every time she successfully
> chases, it reinforces the act.
An excellent point, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
but INACCURATE. What you are really saying is
every repetition of an undesirable behavior scares
you because you don't know HOWE to effectively
break a behavior.
I don't worry about dogs making mistakes, because
I teach dogs, not force and intimidate them to do or
not do something. Once my dogs understand or have
been conditioned or deconditioned, that's about the
end of it. Your methods on the other hand, require
constant REinFORCEment.
In order to break a behavior we've got to repeatedly and
successively and successfully interrupt the behavior in a
specific manner in order to extinguish it effectively quickly
and permenantely.
> A single successful chase can wipe out the benefits
> of many very good training sessions to convince her
> not to chase.
That's your perception because of your defective methods.
You don't know dog training. HOWE is your almost SAR
dog Java? Hand picked, selectively bred, tested, and meticulously
trained, within an inch of being willing to work
for you because you HURT and INTIMIDATE him.
Even if you were bright enough to know HOWE to
HURT him enough in training, you'd never be able
to do it in RL, because in RL, you're working for HIM,
and he's givin you your PAYBACK.
That's entirely predictable, isn't it? That's MY payback. I've
always had this little saying for wiseguys like you: "Pay me
now, or pay me later."
> To discourage her from chasing,
Discourage? Interesting choice of words, ain't it? I always
promote ENcouragement, not discouragement in training,
> you want to use a distraction like a shake can, throw
> chain, discs,
Yes, but probably not in the manner you understand.
You use those as aversives. That's all you know is
hurt and intimidate. And that's what you try to do with
your "distractions."
Your koehler book recommends a good sling shot
or BB's. Did you forget? Perhaps you overlooked it?
Should ought to be right next to the chapter on HANGING
the hoodlum dog.
> or electronic collar.
Your sadoelectric shock collar is quite the distraction, ain't
it. That's all you can think about is hurting intmidating and
forcing dogs.
> (There are many training books that can help you with the
> use of these things.)
Is that so? You prefer the koehler book in your lap, lying "OH
YEAH! I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
> When she alerts and is just starting for a colt, use the
> distraction device.
You mean HURT her.
> Don't say anything;
Distraction reqires prolonged non physical praise instantly
following the brief variable distraction so the dog will
properly discontinue thinking of the behavior without being
distracted too far from the thought of the behavior, or we'll
blow the technique and mess the dog up.
Then we allow the dog to choose his next move, and we
hope he goes for the horse again so we can distract and
praise him several times quickly in succession. Make note,
we instantly praise the brief distraction, not the action of
the dog.
That's crucial. If you wait till your booger sized brain
processes what's going on, you've missed the boat
and the dog is thinking of something completely
different by then.
That's why we praise instantly following the brief variable
sound distraction. And we praise for up to fifteen seconds.
And we allow the dog freedom of choice to repeat the
undesirable behavior so we can extinguish it properly.
Usually, after two or three distractions he thinks of the
behavior again but hesitates..., he hasn't quite engaged in
it.
That's when we've got to PRAISE that split second of thought
where he's making up his mind to start. This moment of
hesitation might ony be brief BEFORE he returns to the
behavior, so we've got to be prepared for his next attempt and
interrupt it with a brief variable distraction and prolonged
non physical praise.
And that should break him of that behavior in that one
specific spot and on that one specific colt. Move ten feet
away, and you're on new turf, and the dog will appear
untrained, till you return to the former site ten feet back...
O.K.? Ferstaich?
Now you do it again right there in that same location with
another and then another and one more. THEN you're ready to
repeat the entire procedure ten feet away or wherever you
like. Now you got two spots the dog is cool with horses. So,
you take it to a third spot. And then to a fourth, repeating
the entire process till the dog is cool with horses.
That'll cover you on that property, but when we take the dog
in the truck to the neighbors farm, new territory, new
behavior problem. We didn't generalize the behavior to other
locations.
> you don't want her to associate the distraction with you -
RIGHT, because you are using the "distraction" as an aversive.
> just use it out of the blue.
Right. But we don't want to be associated with it because we
want the distraction to appear to be random, not because we
don't want the dog to know it's us hurting him.
> When she lifts her head back towards you,
Why would she look at you for something out of the blue? She'd
be looking around for something out of the blue, not you. By
the time the dog looks at YOU, he's already eliminated looking
everywhere else for that something out of the blue.
NOW it's TOO LATE, because you'd have missed the
INSTANT the dog was distracted from thinking of his
chase behavior. That's crucial, but NOT for the reason
you think. It's crucial to praise the dog instantly upon the
distraction, regardless if you SEE the dog has been
distracted. We're working with THOUGHT, not action.
By the time you see the dog lookin around for that
"distraction out of the blue" the dog is no longer
thinking of the behavior we are trying to address.
You've missed the boat, the dog is now looking for
a blue somethin, and he's already thinking too far
distant from the thought of the chase. You've missed
the pregnant moment when he was at the pique of
desire or urge to chase.
THAT'S what we're trying to praise, the instant the
thought is distracted. Then our praise will lock his
thinking onto the NEUTRAL IDEA. IOW, we're praising
the void.
And that's where we let it be.
The process of elimination will break a behavior by just a
brief distraction at the pique of the thought preceeding the
action, followed instantly by prolonged non physical praise to
befuddle the dog and make him ask himself, "what's that all
about? what the heel is he praising me for? what the heel was
I going to do?"
> at the praise the heck out of her and step backwards,
> encouraging her to come back to you, with lots of praise.
See, now that's problematical. You're taking the dog's mind
too far from the behavior. We want the dog to reengage in the
behavior so we can interrupt it several time in succession as
quickly as possible to effectively extinguish the behavior.
> You might want to do this with a long line tied to a fence
> post
"Huh? I've Never Reeled In A Dog In My Life. I Don't Like The
Long Line Method And Don't Use It." lynn k.
RIGHT. Don't use it unless you're doin it.
> the 1st few times, just to make sure she can't chase, but
> give the distraction before she hits the end of the line.
Mmmm, I got a question. What do you suppose the
chances are of the dog NOT hitting the end of the line?
I'd say about the same as not gettin shocked and jerked
and choked on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar by you.
> Lynn K.
THIS sounds like a pretty clear cut case of abuse:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
Read about our dog lovers methods for training
a Retriever dog to retrieve. What do you suppose
they got a capital R in front of their name for?
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lyingfrosty dahl's stick fetch:
"By now the dog is lunging for the dummy. Stick fetch
accomplishes two things: it teaches the dog that distractions
are no excuse to ignore a "fetch" command and it transfers
much of the momentum- producing power of the ear pinch to the
stick, thus providing a basis for force-on-back.
Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Don't make the stick any more
obvious than it has to be. With the dog at heel, toss the
dummy about three feet in front of the dog. With your hand on
the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on
the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the
ear all the way to the dummy.
Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog, sometimes not
hitting it. Again, you want to make the dog think that by
going fast it can avoid the stick. As it catches on, try using
the stick and no ear pinch. Usually not many sessions are
needed (maybe 3-6). When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you
are finished--you have successfully force-fetched your
retriever.
Many trainers follow force-fetching with a "walking fetch"
drill where several dummies are lying on the ground, ten feet
or more apart. Trainer approaches dummies with dog at heel and
says, "fetch" as dog's attention focuses on the first dummy.
Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. After the dog
sits to deliver, the trainer can drop the dummy behind the dog
for a later circuit.
When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in
the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have
been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for
each dummy as soon as it sees it.
We then work on getting the dog to wait until it is commanded
to "fetch," using repeated "heel" commands and jerks on the
lead. Generally we don't pursue this to the point where it is
absolute--the dog's getting the idea is enough. Not all
youngsters can take heavy drilling on contradictory ideas such
as "go" and "don't go."
"Happy bumpers" can also be good for the dog's attitude.
The walking fetch drill makes the transition to picking up a
dummy the dog finds on the ground, not only one which has just
been thrown or placed by the trainer. Now the dog can be sent
to a pile, the foundation for forcing on "back" and for blind
retrieves. It can be sent, with appropriate hand signals, to
side and back piles, making an introduction to casting. And of
course, the dog should deliver perfectly and you, as trainer,
have the tools to enforce this: command "hold" as the dog
emerges from water and considers putting the bird down to
shake, and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped.
While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more
varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to
continue.
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<4eef209iogo2ja3m0...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > Have you been following this discussion, Emily?
ObviHOWESLY not.
> > My point is that the opinions and advice tendered
> > by the self-styled experts in this newsgroup are
> > radically at odds with those published by well-known
> > animal trainers and behavioralists.
You mean the trainers and behaviorists who's methods
are likeWIZE, totally at odds with The Puppy Wizard
and HIS CONSISTENTLY 100% NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students.
> And my point is that you have a total misunderstanding
> of what you are reading and hearing. There is NO such
> divergence in methods.
The Puppy Wizard has proven you to be a liar and
dog abuser and Soup has researched your MENTAL
ILLNESS CASE HISTORY and PROVES you're a
PATHOLOGICAL PSYCHOTIC.
> You are mistaking "confrontation" with
> addressing an issue.
RIGHT!:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
The ONLY ISSUE is your LYIN, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn. Where do you think The
Puppy Wizard GOT THAT QUOTE FROM?
> When trainers talk about confronting a dog,
Like in your koehler book?
> they mean forcing an issue until the dog backs down.
Oh? You mean like when you're breaking aggresion
againgst the HOWES kats? You remember DENYIN
that you SAID to shock and jerk and choke and spray
aversives in the dog's face to make it FRIENDLY with
the kat, like janet boss does with the approval of
professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer of the UofWI
department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM.
HOWE COME do you suppose he ain't postin
here abHOWETS noMOORE?
> Smart trainers don't do that,
RIGHT. But PSYCHOTIC trainers DO DO THAT
and DENY THEIR OWN WRITTEN WORDS.
Like THIS:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
> >> cobbled them together,
> >> then added his own words
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >>and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> >>Which is exactly what he did.
> >> The actual quote is misleading
> >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
> >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.
> >Here's Jerry's version
>
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
>
> >Here's yours;
>
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
>
> > --Sara Sionnach
> >BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
> moreover, they try not to let things get to a point
> where confrontation occurs.
They TRY not to? Like when you tell folks
to shock and choke and spray aversives
in dog's faces and then DENY it despite
that YOU KNOW it's all in The Puppy
Wizard's Archives and you KNOW you're
gonna GET BAGGED FOR LYIN again?
> Negotiation is not confrontation, persuasion is not
> confrontation, training is not confrontation.
Nor is LYIN. But that's what you do cause you're
a pathological liar and dog abuser.
> The trainers and behaviorists you are reading do
> the kinds of things we're talking about all the time -
> including Karen Overall,
You mean Solo's trainer/behaviorist? You'll
notice that melanie REFUSED to DISS-CUSS
the DOMINANCE training she LEARNED from
dra. overall.
You'll likeWIZE notice dra. overall had no METHOD
to EXXXTINGUISH separation anxiHOWSENESS
and hole digging and Solo's phobias.
Solo has been on psychotropic medications UN
SUCCESSFULLY for three years but was NORMAL
when his ABUSER was boarding him while she was
in Europe.
ALL behavior / temperament problems are
caused by mishandling.
> including Jean Donaldson,
If donaldson and all the experts are so EXXXPERT
HOWE COME you bums are MURDERIN DOGS?
> including just about anyone else you'd like to name.
Let's talk abHOWET The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students who
REPORT 100% TOTAL SUCCESS, nearly instantly,
FOR FREE, to boot.
You know, the WONS you call LIARS and FORGERIES
by The Puppy Wizard?
>You can argue your interpretation of their words
No you can't cause they say such things as "THANKS
JERRY. YOUR AMAZING, MIRACULHOWES, METHOD
/ MACHINE SAVED MY DOG'S LIFE. GOD BLESS YOU,
YOU ARE A LIFE SAVER."
Stuff like THAT.
> all you'd like,
BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
CONSISTENTLY. The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual has NEVER
FAILED to rehabilitate ALL behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY. Maybe FASTER. Like destructive separation
anxiHOWESNESS:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
Like THAT.
Here's HOWE COME:
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> but there's a whole lot of people here who actually
> know and have worked with these folks.
INDEEDY. Like melanie and tracy doyleand Professora
Daniel who BOTH FAILED to rehabilitate their dog's like
melanie FAILED at UofPA, at Purdue Small Animal Behavior Clinic.
They told Professora Daniel that Sunshine would
probably NEVER be SAFE.
LUCKY thing Professora Daniel fHOWEND her
FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and CURED
her dog Sunshine's AGGRESSION in WON WEEK.
Today Sunshine is QUALIFIED for Service AND
Threapy dog work.
>They aren't calling themselves experts,
BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> so self-styled is inappropriate,
disciple charlie was referring to you, as the
self-styled expert at odds with The Puppy
Wizard, the only TRUE EXPERT in the
history of behaviorISM.
> but there's no doubt they are more expert than you.
You're correct there, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
SomeHOWE disciple charlie started diverting from
The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual and started BRIBING his
dog and NHOWE has some potentially dangerHOWES
issues with his dog Holly greeting certain strangers.
> Lynn K.
Seems using bribes INCREASES anxiHOWESNESS
and makes some dogs food aggressive and reinforces
FEAR cause dogs are scavengers and steal scraps and
run to hide to eat them with their backs to the wall in a
heightened state of alert.
So, you can tell jean the next time you chit chat with
her that the REASON her dogs FAIL in rehabiliatation
from aggression is cause the food bribe she's RELYING
on is INCREASING ANXIHOWESNESS and TRIGGERING FEAR AGGRESSION.
Of curse the FACT that this is true has been verified
by malinda and melanie and sionnach by their own
posted EXXXPERIENCES of their dog's becoming
aggressive when offered bribes from strangers.
But of curse you'll deny that too, cause you're a
pathological liar and dog abuser and certified
INCURABLE MENTAL CASE:
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
The Puppy Wizard
"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.H...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6dcg20t12ikqnsgra...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:23:13 GMT, mic-hael-2
<mic-hael-2@ddd_ogtv.com>
> wrote:
>
> > And those are the dogs you MURDER. When they
> > are trying to defend themselves from your terrorism.
>
> Oh come on, stop being ridiculous.
You gonna dispute the FACTS, brian?
> You cannot murder a dog.
SHORE you can. All you gotta do is follow
the traditional training advice and you'll
end up with a DEAD DOG like kwbrown
and Gh0st and Robert Crim and Misty
got. Only difference is that Robert and
Misty LEARNED that HURTIN dogs to
train them is DEAD WRONG.
> Murder is a legal term that refers to killing
> of humans that is against the law.
Well curiHOWES that you've mentioned THAT.
Perhaps it's time for ETHICKAL folks like YOU
brian, to change the law to protect ALL innocent
living beings, brian? Of curse that'd make for
some DISCRIMINATION like when you stop in
at McDonald's or go shoppin at the grocery store.
and huntin an fishin would be HOWET, to boot.
> You couldn't murder a dog if you tried.
Sometimes that happens too, brian. We recently
had a thread on the agony some dogs suffer while
being gently and humanely MURDERD by veterinary
professionials. Perhaps you don't remember that?
> Join reality.
Welcome to The Puppy Wizard's Human Behavior
Laboratory, brian. You're watchin history in the makin.
Here The Puppy Wizard has compiled sufficeint DATA
to PROVE that all behavior problems are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. The SAME SAME SAME SAME
MISHANDLING that causes temperament and behavior
problems in children... cause it's all the same same same
same. You'll notice HOWER DOG LOVERS object violently
to NOT HURTING DOGS just as parents and teachers
OBJECT VIOLENTLY to the notion that punishment and
consequences causes PSYCHOTIC CHILDREN who
NEED chemical straight jackets to get through school.
Some of them don't make it either, brian. Only difference
is we can't MURDER KIDS like you do dogs when you
get SCARED of HURTIN and INTIMIDATING them
someMOORE.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in
the crate - leave the leash on and pass it through the crate
door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for
a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
> has thought long and hard about it
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------
> "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
> every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
> effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
> older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>
> Should I have refused to groom them?
>
> Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
> had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>
> Lynn K.
> --------------------------------------
> Is that a MENTAL CASE or NOT?
> NHOWE here she's gonna lie abHOWET IT:
>
> Lynn K. wrote:
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >
> >>Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
> >>In the posts below you take responsibility for making those
> >> calls.
>
> >> In your post above, you state you do not make
> >> those calls. Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------
"Baghdad Bob" <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:aa731e20974914199667ff6c0e17bc0e@TeraNews...
> dia...@u.washington.edu (dianne marie schoenberg) wrote in
news:bd9ppl
> $10qg$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu:
>
> > Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote:
> >>Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
> >
> > Nope. The error that you (and Mikey) are making is that
> > evaluating a dog is not the same as putting it on the kill
> > list. There are lots of factors that go into that decision
> > that have nothing to do with evaluations at all. Unfortunately
> > your assumption is probably common among people who
> > are not at all familiar with the way that shelters and rescues
> > work.
> >
> > Mikey is, of course, welcome to volunteer to evaluate dogs
> > at his local shelter. Whether they respect him enough to
> > take his opinions into consideration one whit is, of course,
> > up to him.
> >
> > Dianne
> >
>
> Well, I stand corrected. Thanks.
>
==========
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of beautiful
labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe you'd be singing
a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and put their
bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer for the trash
company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<sv8e20l5d9tvporei...@4ax.com>...
>
> > I ordered the book you recommended, BTW.
> > We'll have to see what your esteemed colleague
> > at the San Fransciso SPCA has to say about resource
> > guarding and how to deal with it.
The PROBLEM with so called resource guarding /
food aggression is MISTRUST, not food or toys.
> > I wonder if she recommends a protracted reach
> > toward the guarded object while doing zen-breathing?
Yeah. captain haggerty teaches Zen dog trainin when
he's not relying on his favorite koehler methods or shock
collar training for those highly trained dogs that just need
a little POLISHING and PROOFIN. captain haggerty even
uses sHOWEND distraction " When you chuck the dog the sound will
travel up the mandible to the ears and give a
popping sound to the dog. "
And then IT will attack you or someWON he doesn't
FEAR as much and then you KILL IT to be FAIR.
> Enjoy the read.
INDEED.
> Jean is one of the few who will work with
> aggressive dogs, btw.
You mean as opposed to MURDERIN them like you do
when you're too SCARED to HURT the dog someMOORE.
> I know what she would do, since I've worked
> with her on aggression cases.
That so? You're a proven liar so your claim to
have worked with jean and the FACT that you
don't approve of NOT HURTING DOGS to train
them don't deserve credibility. Even was that
TRUE, you can't NOT HURT DOGS SOMETIMES
and expect to build TRUST and CONFIDENCE
so the dog don't FEAR YOU and ATTACK YOU
when you INTIMIDATE IT or remind him of a former
occasion you've HURT HIM, like for breaking a
command or making an aggressive move, like
you recommend to shock and jerk and choke
dogs to introduce them to kats which YOU
DENIED despite that it's IN The Puppy Wizard's
Archives. That's HOWE COME you got the LYING
TITLE.
> While you're in the learning mode, how's about
> you also go and get Ian Dunbar's videotape
BWEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
dr dunbar only knows BRIBERY and avoidance.
HOWE abHOWET you refresh HOWER memories
of your most recent method for dog / dog aggression,
to throw the leash dHOWEN in disgust and walk away?
> on dog/dog aggression (Vol 2: Fighting).
dr dunbar is an incompetent trainer. Just like
dra mcconnell and Purdue and UofPA. They
all rely on BRIBERY and confinement and
restraint and crating and locking dogs in boxes
and medicating them and offer NO HOPE of
rehabilitating most behavior problems in a
reasonable amHOWENT of time, as PROVEN
RIGHT HERE by their own students TESTIMONIALS.
Look at Solo for EXXXAMPLE.
> I'd love to see if you also think his are
> confrontational techniques.
No. The Puppy Wizard doesn't need to see
dr dunbar's video to know his methods FAIL
cause if they didn't you bums woulnd't use
other methods. WOULD YOU.
> Lynn K.
Our pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn stutters:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats?
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
'This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue'
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ging...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes an
aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly
with both your voice and the collar. This is important - the
correction must be physically very strong - not a nag. (PS:
not many dogs need to be corrected at all).
"Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<SlDg7.10491$V7.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>...
> You jerk and choke dogs on pronged spiked pinch choke
> collars to make them friendly with their house kats, just
> like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn does.
What are you talking about, you lying sack of dung?
You keep talking about some photo on "my" website related to
dogs and cats. I don't have a clue where you dreamt that up.
There IS an article about introducing dogs to cats at
www.sfgsrescue.org - hardly my website - but there are no
photos with humans at that site. And the article is clearly
attributed to the author, who isn't me. When have I ever said
anything about using a prong collar, or any collar correction
at all, to make dogs friendly to house cats? Don't bother.
The answer is never.
And I did say "I love Koehler", in reference to the passage he
wrote about the damage foggy-headed trainers like you do.
Specifically.
Lynn K.
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ging...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
4) Shut the dog in its crate and allow the cat(s) out
hopefully to walk past the dog crate. If the dog barks or
lunges within the crate, the dog is verbally corrected.
Make sure that the cats are in another room behind a closed
door before letting the dog have its time out of the crate.
I'm not talking about keeping the dog in the crate all the
time, it's more keeping the cats in another room most of the
time.
The dog is crated while the cats are out, and then let out of
the crate for most of the time. This may take several days or
weeks to accomplish. It depends on how quickly the cat comes
around to the dog's crate area (which should be with the
family).
5) Do not comfort, pet or fuss over the cats where the dog
can see it from his crate. Especially don't do this after the
dog has barked or lunged at the cat. Correct only the dog.
This is because you do not want the dog to see the cat as your
possession.
6) Accustom the dog to a muzzle while it is hanging out in its
crate. It will be muzzled when it goes to the vet or is
groomed (even if we don't see it, it happens), so this way the
dog is used to a muzzle. Leave it on for 10 - 15 minutes at a
time if it isn't hot. If it's hot, the dog must not be
muzzled because it can't pant. The muzzle is only a
temporary tool. But the muzzle must be used for the cat's
sake.
7) After 10-14 days where the dog does not bark or lunge at
the cat and the cat is comfortable walking around the crate,
it's show time!
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes an
aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly
with both your voice and the collar. This is important - the
correction must be physically very strong - not a nag. (PS:
not many dogs need to be corrected at all).
Do not correct the dog for sniffing at the cat. Sniffing is
very good and is to be encouraged. Attention barking is also
okay. The dog will feel any nervousness or tension of the
owner via the leash and feed off of it, so it's important to
be calm. That's also why the muzzle
is on the dog - the owner knows the cat is safe no matter
what. Do this for about 5-10 minutes at first, then put the
dog or cat away. Try to be observant to end the session while
both dog and cat are doing well. You can spin out the time
until it's an hour or so.
9) Each time the dog first sees the cat, it gets a food
treat. Cat = a cookie. If the dog is showing too much
interest in the cat (like scenting for it), distract the dog
by giving it something else to do, like a sit or heel with
praise for doing what you've told it to do rather than
automatically giving it a cookie.
You can't reward the dog for not chasing the cat but you can
reward it for doing something you've asked of it.
10) There is no playing ball, running or chasing about the
house, either by dogs, cats or humans while the dog and cat
are out together. This is because care needs to be taken to
see that the dog doesn't go into prey drive. This needs to
continue throughout this entire process.
11) Supervise the interaction and after 7-10 days where the
dog has not had to be corrected, the prong and leash control
can be eliminated. Even if you never had to correct the dog,
it's important to wait 7-10 days. Leave on the muzzle. The
dog and cat can not be left unsupervised. If the dog chases
the cat during this period, it's back to item #7.
Got Milk? BWWWWAHAHAHAAAAA!!! Get the
heel outta her you lying dog abusing Thug... Jerry.
The Puppy Wizard
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:<pqcg20dlsivd0kbdc...@4ax.com>...
> >
> > Let's go back to the issue that started this discussion
>
> I started this discussion with a question about
> whether you and Mikey were against euthanasia
> in general or just for temperament.
The question is sheer idiocy.
> You persist in trying to tie it to a dog none of
> us knew and are not qualified to comment on
kwbrown MURDERED her DEAD DOG Teena
for the same same same same reason tara o.
aka tee MURDERED her DEAD DOG Summer
for the same same same same reason steve
walker MURDERED his DEAD DOG Sampson
for the same same same same reason purple
pony MURDERED her DEAD DOG Raggdoll
for the same same same reason chrisman
dinan MURDERED his DEAD DOG Usal for
the same same reason Robert Crim MURDERED
his DEAD DOG Fritz The Wonder dog and every
DEAD DOG we've ENTERTRAINED since your
former most favorite poster Robert Crim advised
you that The Puppy Wizard is right.
> and others keep trying to bring it back to
> more general terms.
That's O.K. We can bring this discussion back
to the first time you got bagged for lying by
Marilyn abHOWET snake proofin, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn. REMEMBER?
> > Janet Boss responded to this post and said
> > nothing about how Kate handled the situation,
Right...
> > and nor did anyone else except me.
And The Puppy Wizard... but we don't DIS-CUSS
BUSINESS with HIM cause that'd be professional
SUICIDE. Wouldn't it...
> > Further, Janet recommended daily grooming,
> > in those words with no caveats or
> > further explanation of what she meant.
She MEANT to continue punishing the dog if IT
was snarky. Like she did to nessa before nessa
annHOWENCED her dogs was TURNING ON
HER like the other DEAD DOGS we've entertrained
here abHOWETS.
> Nobody said anything about how Kate handled
> the situation because nobody but Kate knew the
> dog or saw the incidents.
That's INSANE.
> It would be rather arrogant to do so.
That's INSANE.
> I understood Janet's recommendation to be to
> desensitize a dog to grooming and still don't
> understand why you find that inappropriate.
Perhaps the chin chuck has sumpthin to do with it?
> > Now, I get the book you recommended, and it
> > outlines a process for working with a dog who
> > exhibits aggressive behavior when being
> > handled. It is an incremental process of sixty
> > steps, beginning with the merest touch, with
> > caveats to "back off" if it's not going well.
>
> > No inconsistency there, eh?
>
> No inconsistency in what I and others were saying
"If, at any point, the dog shows the original
reaction to the trigger, it means the intensity
of the presentation is super-threshold. It is
important to then back off to a reduced trigger
intensity and work back up gradually again."
Of curse, that's the LONG way of doin it.
> with what Jean D. says, No. Inconsistency with
> your method of "never groom the dog again", yes.
> Nobody said push the dog beyond tolerance.
And then chin chuck it...
> What was recommended, by many & the book,
> was increasing the dog's tolerance.
Yeah. By assaulting IT.
> Lynn K.
Like THIS:
"A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A Resounding
Sound Distraction: "When You Chuck The
Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible
To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To
The Dog."
"Puppy Problems Prevented"
CanineHealthOnline.org. - JERRYIZED
HOWEDY People,
This is the typical bullshit you're gonna find from your
expert veterinary behaviorists and expert dog trainers:
"Question:
I have a 4 month old Great Dane female puppy
who has the habit of biting and catching the lead
in her mouth to shake it in a playful manner when
we walk. I am planning to show her in conformation
and need to break this habit. I rubbed Bitter Apple
on the lead but to no avail. I am using Tabasco pepper
sauce now but it is only partially effective. I try telling
her "leave it" and pulling it downward. Any help you
can give me would be appreciated. "
The world faMOUSE cap'n arthur haggerty replies:
"This is not a difficult problem to solve but"
But our expert can't teach us HOWE to do that
without HURTIN the dog...
" it is very difficult to explain because"
Because he has NO method, only fear force confrontation
intimidation pain and aversives.
" of the many variations and nuances involved in doing so. "
IOW the lying dog abusing Thug needs to couch his words
carefully cause he can only tell us to HURT our dogs, PEOPLE!
" Your use of Bitter Apple and Tabasco sauce is not a bad
move"
That'll endear the dog to working with the handler on lead,
and establish trust love and confidence.
" and I would continue to use it."
First use aversives, and if that don't work, HURT THE DOG to
be fair... cause THAT'S ALL our dog lovers know HOWE to do.
Should take a few minutes to train this dog not to do that...
without hurtin him.
" One correction that can be used is chucking the dog under
the chin when she is biting on the leash. "
Kindly enough advice. When done correctly according to
koehler, our good captain's teacher, the dog will not realize
you are the only one with hands standin there.
" Let me briefly explain the chucking technique."
EXCELLENT! Our dog lovers here don't like to give detailed
advice, so's they don't unintentionally mislead nobody noHOWE.
" Cup your hand so that your thumb and forefinger create a
circle."
Kinda like our professor lying doc scruff shake dermer does
when he relaxes on his couch?
" Your hand comes from the bottom up to the lower portion of
the mandible so the Dane doesn't see it at all. "
Right. Although big enough to take your hand off at the
shoulder, they're big stupid dogs and won't realize it's YOU
who just slapped him in the mouth, and will not even know
you're his tormentor.
" When you chuck the dog the sound will travel up the mandible
to the ears and give a popping sound to the dog. "
AHHH YES! Sound Distraction as taught by the good capn!
" Use a verbal correction at the same time. "
You mean like offering to make a deal?
" Do it as many times as it takes to get the dog to stop. "
I've seen Danes not stop, not for over a year till the dog
was too dangerous to do anything with...except by me.
" You will not be able to deliver that correction every time
so "
So that means the variable reinforcement will negate the
method, antagonize the dog, and exacerbate the anxiety which
is causing the dog to mouth and chew on the lead to defend
himself from being jerked and choked on his pronged spiked
pinch choke collar that is necessary for these monster sized
dogs which I grew up with training serious behavior problems
without hurting them, cause the loser DIES... when you fight
with a dog that's too big to intimidate and hurt enough to
make IT respect your Godlike AUTHORITY.
" supplement it with a collar correction. "
A jerk and choke will teach the dog you are in control... and
the guy in control is the bum who's slappin him around and
jerking and choking him for objecting to being jerked and
choked in the first place, PEOPLE.
" An obedience foundation will certainly help. "
AS STATED.
" Now this is the fastest and longest lasting approach in
solving the problem. "
That so, capn? You're a liar and a dog abuser and got to get
exposed to the akc and run outta business, good buddy. We'll
be seeing a lot of each other in the very near future. This
town ain't big enough for the both of us, cap'n... I'm
worldwide.
Get outta Doge. Jerry Howe, The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
The Puppy Wizard
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040210085607...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> Lynn wrote:
>
> >Nobody said anything about how Kate handled the situation
because
rather
> >arrogant to do so.
>
mention that
> Kate has always appeared very competent and practical and not a
> fly-off-the-handle idiot!
>
> > I understood Janet's recommendation to be to
> >desensitize a dog to grooming and still don't understand why
you find
> >that inappropriate.
>
didn't go into
> detail about what daily grooming sessions would involve. Since
the answer was
> directed at KATE, I knew she understood desensitizing.
>
> Charlie's assumption is that one would roughly toss the dog up
on a grooming
> table and brush, comb, and rake as hard as possible, pinning the
dog down and
> screaming at it if it growled. That's because he doesn't have a
clue.
>
> >No inconsistency in what I and others were saying with what
Jean D.
> >says, No. Inconsistency with your method of "never groom the
dog
was
> >recommended, by many & the book, was increasing the dog's
tolerance.
>
concept is
> foreign to him.
>
> Janet Boss
> Best Friends Dog Obedience
> "Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
> Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
>
HOWEDY People
HOWE COME it's HOWER EXXXPERTS who
know HOWE to JERK and CHOKE and SHOCK
dogs to train them that likeWIZE, know WHEN TO
MURDER THEM?
Think abHOWET it.
That's all for NHOWE.
The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:4b8i20lele1e9e1n5...@4ax.com...
> On 10 Feb 2004 17:55:40 GMT, KWBrown
<arfenar...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > You disapprove of my response to the grooming snap.
> > I certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the head
That's what The Puppy Wizard woulda done
to make the dog FEEL SAFE and SECURE.
> > and give her a cookie.
NO. Food bribes often make FEAR AGGRESSIVE
dogs ATTACK or run to hide to eat them with their
back to the wall in a heightened state of alert.
> > Nor was I at all interested in letting her get away
> > with that without comment.
Yeah. And you got a DEAD DOG to show for it.
> > Coated dogs don't get to decide when they
> > get brushed out.
The PROBLEM is TRUSTING, not brushing.
> I wouldn't suggest you reward the dog for snapping
> at you, but rebuking it was not a smart move, Kate.
RIGHT. The Puppy Wizard NEVER scolds or
punishes or intimidates or bribes or avoids
behaviors that SCARE HIM.
> Whether dogs "get to decide" something is a
> philosophical question about the relationship
> between man and beast.
NO. The Puppy Wizard SEZ all behavior problems
are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. Dogs ONLY respond
in INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE
ways to situations and circumstances of their environments
which WE create for them. THAT MEANS all behavior
problems can be EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> What works in rehabilitating dogs with problem
> behaviors is a different subject.
INDEEDY. jean has a very poor track record
amongst her students and readers... as EVIDENCED
by lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and laura arlove's
DEAD DOG Chewie, amongst other DEAD DOGS
we've entertrained here abHOWETS.
> Since we are all accepting Jean Donaldson as our
> authority on this subject, per Lynn K's recommendation,
Yeah... her PERSONAL pal.
> I will quote from pp 25-26 of Jean's book, "Mine!"
>
> "Management means
NOT BEING ABLE TO TRAIN THE DOG, disciple charlie.
There's a certain DOGGY TALKIE you gotta learn to be in
this BUSINESS, disciple charlie.
> avoiding the problem
Only causes it to INTENSIFY.
> or trigger for a behavior through environmental control.
You can AVOID a behavior only till it's time to TRAIN
the behavior... ANY behavior problem that takes MOORE
than a couple days to train is being MISHANDLED.
> It can serve as a valid alternative to behavior
> modification sometimes
Locking dogs in boxes to avoid behavior
problems causes the behaivor problem
to get worse and often CHANGES to
other, seemingly non related behavior
problems as trainsfer or replacement
behaviors.
> or be used in conjunction with behavior modification.
Then the behavior should be EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> Managing during treatment serves the duel
> purposes of preventing mishap while the dog
> is in training and protecting the program.
Right. The Puppy Wizard's OBJECTIVE is to variably
briefly and non physically distract and PRAISE every
onset of the inappupriate behavior till it's EXXXTINGUISHED
and then GENERALIZE the idea to different environments.
> "[A]void confrontation should a situation arise that is too
> advanced for the dog's current level.
IOW don't HURT the dog when you get SCARED.
> An example would be a bed-guarder who
> has been barred from the bedroom in between
> training exercises as he is not yet ready for cold
> or spontaneous trials. If, one day, the bedroom
> door is left open
You mean INSTEAD of breakin the behavior NEARLY
INSTANTLY as The Puppy Wizard did with Margaret
Hoffman's eight year old Dobe Chelsea, in TWO
INSTANCES of jumpin on the bed?
> and the dog gets on the bed, the owner
> should simply ignore the dog
The Puppy Wizard teaches HIS FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
several ways of using distraction and praise and
sHOWEND cues to break ANY behavior you
cannot CONTROL.
> and wait for him to come off the bed on his own.
That would be preferable to PROVING you
can't force IT off the bed.
> An alternative is a simple re-direction.
No. "Redirecting behaviors" REWARDS the
inapupriate behavior and REINFORCES IT.
> In a very matter of fact way, call the dog
Calling the dog is different, but will still not
EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior, only prevents
the dog from doin what he has in mind to do
as soon as you're not standing there to PREVENT
it.
> the kitchen for a cookie
THAT could train the dog in WON INSTANCE
to get on the bed to elicit the BRIBE, disciple
charlie.
> invite him out for a brief walk."
INVITE jean to TALK BUSINESS with The
Puppy Wizard.
> I'm sorry about what happened, Kate, and I don't
> claim toto know that this dog could have been
> rehabilitated under any circumstances.
The Puppy Wizard sez this dog has been
ABUSED since day WON and could have
been REHABILITATED NEARLY INSTANTLY
using the INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
> Nor do I know what kind of advice you received
> other than from people in this newsgroup.
kate has been a contributing dog abuser here
abHOWETS for many years, disciple charlie.
What happened to Teen a was PREDICTED
by The Puppy Wizard years ago.
> I do believe you handled the situation in a way that
> made it worse,
The dog got DEAD over it.
> and the feedback you got from Janet
> Boss merely encouraged you to set the
> dog up for failure.
Look at janet boss's TRACK RECORD, disciple
charlie. nessa's dogs were TURNING ON HER
cause janet taught her to ABUSE them. janet's
own kat attacks her when she punishes her dogs
and has been in treatment at the NEUROLOGIST
for her "SEIZURE LIKE" activity.
> Charlie
There ain't a dog we've MURDERED here
abHOWETS that couldn't have been
REHABILITATED NEARLY INSTANTLY:
"Your Method Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And
Should Really Be Used By All Tainers Who Call Themselves
Trainers," Kay Pierce, Trainer, Thirty Years Experience.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BNTD...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training
> Hi Jerry,
> Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
> me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
> amazing progress almost makes me cry.
> Kay Pierce
====================
----- Original Message -----
From: <BNTD...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training
> Jerry,
> I started Hunter on his training using your manual
> and training method. What a marked difference in
> just a few hours. I
> had him in my van and just using the sound with
> his remote trainer and telling him he's a good dog
> when he started looking like he was going to bark
> at a car worked great.
> He only barked 2 or 3 times. Then I took him to a
> spot that we had used years ago to train, Jerry I
> have hope that I can have my happy dog back
> soon. And not this tense unhappy creature I live
> with now.
> He was so happy today. I am looking forward to
> getting the machine so that he can stay that way.
> Thank you,
> Kay Pierce
===================
From: <BNTD...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: Making Progress
> Hello Jerry,
> Hunter and I started working the recall and family
> pack exercise today. On leash and in the house
> he has a perfect recall.
> And I think he really started to relax and enjoy
> himself I swear he was laughing.
> I had taught him to go to the heel position when he
> comes to me years ago. And over the past few months
> I have had to tell him to go there. Today he flew into
> the heel position each and every time without me saying
> a word to him about it.
> He has never bounced like that before.
> I trained him using conventional methods with a choker and
> pinch collar. Over the past few days we have been using his
> regular collar. I can tell that he enjoys it more.
> As I mentioned before I am a dog trainer and when I trained
> my latest dog I used all positive reinforcements techniques.
> When I trained for that I had been amazed at the results.
> Your method takes positive training to the next level and
> should really be used by all trainers who call themselves
> trainers.
> My Hunter is concentrating on me and not on the treat he
> thinks he wants. My other dog wants treats before she'll
> do anything.
> As soon as I get Hunter straightened out she's next.
> Thank you so much,
> Kay Pierce
===============
----- Original Message -----
From: <BNTD...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Cc: <Hull...@aol.com>; <brit...@yahoo.com>;
<cor...@thefelixfamily.com>;
<jam...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Head Hunter
> Dear Jerry,
> Just thought I would write to let you know how
> well Hunter is doing. He had been trained using
> the conventional methods for obedience. He had
> gotten used to a choker and a pinch collar.
> Alot of pain and a lot of jerking around. I had also
> tried using positive reinforcement methods that I
> had been trained in. He was so busy looking for
> the treat that he didn't really want to work.
> So I went back to using the pinch collar on him
> and also a gentle leader when we were in public.
> Slowly by degrees his behavior got worse and
> he did deserve his reputation as a vicious dog.
>The vet had recommended that he be put down.
> I was in a panic when I found your web site.
> Thanks! He is now the happy dog that I first
> started out with 5 years ago. I am a professional
> trainer and it was distressing to me that I could not
> help my own dog. I had been told that some dogs
> don't respond to any kind of training and that a
> vicious dog can never be trusted again.
> I disagree!
> Hunter is a sight hound and now I can take him
> with me and he doesn't chase cars as much
> anymore which is one of his main problems.
> We are working on the dog aggression thing.
> And I am confident that will be successful too.
> I also have your BIOSOUND machine and that
> too is working good. I know of several rescue
> groups that would benefit from it.
> This is rather long I know but it comes from the
> heart. My Head Hunter Green and I have together
> along time and have been through so much together.
> Thank you for helping me save his life.
> Kay Pierce
=========================
----- Original Message -----
From: <Canines...@aol.com>
To: <BNTD...@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:49 PM
Subject: Jerry the jerk howe
> Kay if you only knew what a jerk howe is it's either
> his way or your wrong no matter what training method
> you use. In a post re: adopting a shelter dog he
> stated "fu*k Buster" if you want I can refer you to the
> post.
> He's nothing but a blowhard and if he was closer I
> would pay him a visit. He used your post from July
> in his rebuttal
> Bob Garrett
----- Original Message -----
From: BNTD...@aol.com
To: Canines...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Jerry the jerk howe
I have to strongly disagree that Jerry is a jerk. I am a
dog trainer and I have been for almost 30 years. I
believe strongly in positive reinforcement. My youngest
was trained using treats and praise.
My oldest how ever was not trained that way I am ashamed
to say. The result a very dangerous dog. He has problems
with barrier and dominance aggression. A year ago he put
a hole in my leg that took weeks to heal.
When the vet and all of my friends advocated putting him
down I found Jerry's website. I was looking for a natural
way to calm my dog and train him all over again as well.
You say Jerry is a jerk well I have talked to him on the
phone and consulted him about his training methods.
I really grilled him before I even considered using his
methods.
He loves dogs. Using his methods my Head Hunter is
now a very sweet dog. I get kisses instead of growls.
When he growls or even looks like he is going to bark
I tell him what a good dog he is and right away he shuts
up, looks at me like I'm nuts. But doesn't try to eat anyone.
I am happy to say that the vet thinks I have him on major
drugs. I don't! I still use a muzzle on him when I have to
take him to iffy places. But hey, I know he is now a sugar.
And the most important thing he is happy again.
It's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I
have mine.
Sincerely
Kay
-----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: BNTD...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."
Dear Jerry,
It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.
Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.
I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.
My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.
He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
Major break through.
This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is Do No Harm.
The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first
rule.
Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my
side where he belongs.
Thank you so much.
Kay
========================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BNTD...@aol.com
> To: jho...@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 2:22 PM
> Subject: Update
> Hi Jerry,
> Just an update to let you know how things are going.
> Hunter is doing really great thanks to you and your
> training manual.
> I cancelled the appointment with the new vet to get
> him re-evaluated for aggression. all weekend long I
> had kids run by the fence to try and make him bark.
> He didn't!
> Tonight we are going to PetsMart to work on his
> dog aggression but even that is going good for him.
> I have less and less of a problem with him in my
> vehicle. He doesn't try so hard to protect
> it from the four wheeled monsters that go by.
> I think soon I'll be able to leave his window open when
> we go down the road and he won't try to jump out at
> the cars that go by.
> I have shared the manual with several dog owners
> that I know and even a group of dog trainers.
> Thank you again.
> Kay
==========================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
To: <BNTD...@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Update
> Have your vet call me if he's interested in behavior.
> XXX/OOO. Jerry.
The Puppy Wizard
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message news:4b8i20lele1e9e1n5...@4ax.com...
> On 10 Feb 2004 17:55:40 GMT, KWBrown
<arfenar...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > You disapprove of my response to the grooming
> > snap. I certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the
> > head and give her a cookie. Nor was I at all
> > interested in letting her get away with that without
> > comment.
All dog behavior problems are caused by mishandling.
Rehabilating problem dog behavior is EZ if you know HOWE.
The methods taught in The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual GUARANTEE NEAR
INSTANT 100% TOTAL CONTROL without fear, force,
confrontation, or physical restraint.
Here's one case history amongst dozens of IDENTICAL
case histories from novices and professional trainers of
twenty and thirty years experience alike:
From Professora Linda Daniel and Sunshine:
"I Wrote To Purdue And Told Them Their Advice Did Not Work.
If I Had Not Found The Wits End Method I Know There Was No
Hope For Him And He Would Have Hurt Someone And Had To
Be Killed. I Wrote To Purdue And Told Them I Told Them Their
Advice Did Not Work. Sunshine's Still Acting Like A New Dog."
Sunshine is now 100% trustworthy off lead in public and is
about to enjoy doing THERAPY WORK with his nurse owner.
Professora Daniel and Sunshine are going to SUE Purdue
University and dra patricia mcconnel and their trainers for
MALPRACTICE, ANIMAL ABUSE, PUBIC ENDANGERMENT,
and FRAUD.
Everything we've been taught about dog behavior is DEAD WRONG.
"Linda" <llindal...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.03010...@posting.google.com...
> I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
> dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
> I do not know what started the problem but he came
> aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
> snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
> and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
> ad I took him with me everywhere.
> At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
> Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
> clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
> it was not working on his aggression problem.
> I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
> trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
> They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
> and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
> suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
> working as he was becoming more aggressive.
> I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
> away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
> on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
> use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
> I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
> ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
> LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
> University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he had
> fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the gentle
> leader and when out walking and he got stressed have the
> people stop until he could get in control using treats,and work
> on clicker training.
> At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the
> gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he would
> not come when I called him and would run away when I tried
> to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood
> as we had become that "mean dog and women who hasn't
> trained her dog"
> I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
> were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
> so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said I
should
> give up on him and kill him but they would say
> "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
> responsible for him."
You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.
> As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
> going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
> Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
> Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
> He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
> not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
> The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
> I had been working for 18 month!
> Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
> from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
> I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
> blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
> can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
> I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
> -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
> looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
> on by.
> When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
> me like "you must be out of your mind"
> The results can make a believer!!! Three weeks since
> beginning the Wits End Training Manual program I walked
> him without the gentle leader in a busy shopping area with
> many dogs. He just seemed to not notice any one.
> When people talked to him or ask his name he would
> look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
> I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
> enjoy life out in public.
> If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
> was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
> Through all this he never growled
> at me, guarded his toys or food or showed any sign of
> aggression with me.
> My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
> dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
> out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
> I know most people would have given up on him a long time
> ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
> but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
> I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
------- Message -----
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
Original Message -----
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
Sunshine is still acting like a new dog!
Saw a dog today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out of him.
Think it is hard for him but he never even seemed to think
about going off-reacting.
The word come has no affect on him just the phrase--Sunshine
come goodboy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:17 PM
To: Lindalee
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression
HOWEDY Linda,
> I am not sure what happened but after two days
> Sunshine walked with me not sniffing, pulling or
> going his own way. In two and a half years he
> has never walked without his nose to the ground-
> -today he walked closer too the cart than ever
> before and turned to look at me every few minutes-
> -in past with treats and pleading he only looked
> toward me when I had a treat in my hand.
> It is hard to believe he has really changed so quickly.
> Now I have several questions--After one time with
> throwing the can he has always come on the first call-
> -do I need to try to set him up to not come so we can
> do four times in different places?
Yup. You've got to generalize the come command to make
it 100% reliable. MISTAKES ARE GOOD. You want him to
make a few mistakes so we can get the sound associated
with the command.
> I have not tried to call him off leash outside as that is
> the time he is does not come.
O.K. You know to do the HOT & Cold and Family Leadership
Exercises and you'll have a perfect come command in a couple
fifteen minute sessions.
> On the leash he came on the first call today even when he
> was starting to explore the leaves etc.
Excellent. We discussed his penchant for eating leaves and
dirt off the ground.
> He walked past several people today with hardly a second
glance-
We also discussed that he was rather aggressive, and you
were becoming very concerned about being able to keep him.
> he did see a cat about 10 feet away and when I called him
> the first time he did not respond but when I used the can he
> ran over to me and seemed to forget about the cat.
PERFECT. Next time you'll probably not need the sound.
Just remember to vary the origin of the sound each time,
day in to day out, the sequence never breaks.
> Now what do I do when he sees another dog?
You'll tell him GOOD BOY and prepare to make the sound
and praise if he continues looking, and if that fails, you'll
ask him to come, keeping in mind the sequence of the
commands with sound and the distract/praise techniques.
You'll get used to thinking that fast in a couple more days,
no problem.
> Although the calling him the four times seems easy it was
> very hard-
Yes, it takes a bit of a knack to get it just right, but if
you fail, not to worry, you'll be able to get it right the
next time.
We don't lose points for "do overs" as long as we get the
pup under control fast and EZ. That's HOWE COME that
dependable come command is so necessary.
> -I had a friend which was good since I had a lot of trouble
> calling the right way and using the can at the same time.
Yes, I recommended you may want a friend to help because
of your disability.
> I found out I had been calling him many times each time
> I called him to come.
Right. Should be about a second between requests and
the sounds on the second and fourth commands and move
off into the FPLX if that fails, and continue the technique.
EZ, huh???
> I am still working on the leash it is really hard when you
> are not standing upright as the leash can not be as loose
> since it drags on the ground-
Yeah, I don't know if you're able, but do try to handle the
lead exactly as instructed. It'll feel uncomfortable for a
few days, but we don't want that lead tangling and
accidentally pullin on him.
>-I am so worried without the leash around my hand
Psst! If you've got fair strength in your hands, let me
do the worrying for you... O.K.?
> but I am not sure if it was the leash,
Well, you know I told you it was the overcontrol of
the lead that triggers positive thigmotaxis, the opposition
reflex.
> telling him good boy everytime he looked at me
That ALWAYS works. All my Mrs. got to do is tell me
good boy and I'll do anything she asks. Hey? I think
I just figgered out HOWE COME she always gets
her way with me...
> or the cans,
Any sound will suffice, even an extraneous and coincidentally
but well timed sound will work, maybe even BETTER.
> but today seemed like a miracle.
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
> I told a friend about this approach and they thought you
> were on "Today" this spring--was it you?
Naaah. There's nobody that has such fast EZ safe gentle
methods. I'll be on TV soon enough with my Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two
Did Too) machine.
But that's just gonna give me the floor to discuss the state
of the art of the animal behavior industry.
Would you do me a favor? If you're on the internet, I'd sure
appreciate it if you'd repost this to the groups, a lot of
people are saying terrible things about me and tellin folks
reports like yours, are FORGERIES by ME.
Thank you for being a good student.
Yours, Jerry.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:24 PM
To: Lindalee
Subject: Re: dog aggression
Dog training isn't LUCK. You'll do perfect or I'll get the
heel outta this business... Yours, Jerry.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression
Will let you know how it goes!!!--thanks for the encouragement
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:35 AM
To: Lindaleee
Subject: Re: dog aggression
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: dog aggression
HOWEDY Linda,
> I got your message tonight and have printed
> your manual--will start tomorrow--
Excellent.
> I am truly at my wits end!!!
Me too, but not with your problem. This one's EZ!
> Today he bite me twice breaking the skin when he was in a
> "rage" .
He's gonna be EZ. He's not even thinking about you when he
bites. He's just overexcited trying to PROTECT you. That'll
diminish immediately through simply handling the lead
properly, gettin the control and attention through the praise
conditioning, and distract/praising his aggressive thoughts
before he gets out of control.
EZ stuff.
> Once when he saw another dog-ran toward the dog
Sound/praise and repeat as necessary. Just remember
to always vary the direction the sound comes from. You
might need a helper to produce the alternate sounds in
time.
> and pulled me down-
In a couple days that'll cause him to come back to you.
> -since I do not walk or move very well, falling down is
> a major problem as I can not get up without much help.
He'll straighten out in a couple days of EZ work.
> He bite me when my hand went close to his mouth while I was
> falling.
Yes, but he wasn't conscious of YOU, he's in a fury protecting
you.
> The second time was when we were going down the street-
> -I use an electric cart
Excellent. You'll be able to handle him EZ like that.
> and a man walked toward us and He saw him before I did
That would complicate and slow things down.
> and took off-
In a couple days you'll have the control to stop him after
he's started.
> -lunging barking and snapping again I got my hand within
> reach of his mouth and he bite me-
That was predictable!
> -he bites what every is close.
At least he's consistent. That's GOOD!
> When he is not in a rage he will let me doing anything-
Of course. He sounds PERFECT. This is the kind of
dog I'd go out of my way to get for myself...
> -take is food away, touch him anywhere, or do anything to
> him-
Perfect.
> -and he will never even raise his lip but when he goes
> off he is in another world.
Yeah, kinda like me...
> You are my last hope-
You're gonna be EZ.
> -he works to help me at home--he picks up anything on the
> floor, closes doors, picks up the daily paper and will stand to
> brace me when I stand up on my bad days.
He sounds like a great dog!
> He waits for me to go out the door first and will wait until
> I call him to come in and close the door.
He'll learn the same manners when in pubic.
> He really helps me everyday and if I didn't have him life
> would much harder.
We'll fix him up in a couple days of EZ work.
> But I know if we can not solve the "rage" problem
Pssst! It's already in the bag...
> he will bite someone other than me and will have to be
> killed.
Not to worry, that'll be past history in a couple days.
> Your method seems so simple
It is. Just follow the techniques and ask me if you
need any help. I've got all kinds of fast EZ solutions
for any problem you could encounter.
> after all we have tried it does not seem possible to
> change his behavior easily-
Everything you've tried has relied on bribes force
and confrontation.
> -but I will start trying tomorrow.
And instead of trying to force him to stay in control,
you'll PRAISE his first aggressive thought and he'll
move in close to YOU to protect you, not charge at
others. He'll learn FAST that you want the aggression
and he'll want to use it BEST for YOU, so he'll do
EVERY THING you ask the first time.
I'd LOVE to have a hundred dogs just like him today.
> I use a Halti so he does not pull me over-usually!
Right, but here again, you're relying on some degree
of force to control him. That will ALWAYS trigger
the OPPOSITE of what we want, telling him to be
aggressive, not to pay attention to you and your safety.
Once he sees THAT, you're gonna need a shoe horn
to PRY him AWAY from you.
In fact, when you WANT him to attack someone all you'll
have to do is let him see someone and gently pull back
on his collar without sayin nuthin, and that'll set him off...
> but have never used punishment, choke collar or any
> other "corrections"
Good, that'll make it REAL EZ to teach him my methods.
> I taught him all his tricks and tasks with a clicker and
> food.
Fine. We'll forget the treats and use the click differently
for our puporses.
> Thanks for your help in advance-
CONGRATULATIONS in advance...
> -I pray your method will be our salvation!!!
No need to. It's already DONE.
> Linda.
Do me a favor? If you could keep a record of our
discussions and your work with your pup, and
send it in to the news groups I participate in, it'd
be a great benefit and inspiration for others in the
same or similar situations.
Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training.
Yours, Jerry.
================================
--------Original Post-----------
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
Will try it today and post how well this system works.
We went to a dog class that I had enrolled in for
resocialization--getting him to not lunge and try to
attack every dog he sees, we were at the third class
and I forgot the Halti but he was relaxed and had no
problem with any of the seven dogs-
-in the past he would shake and after a little while
turn away from the dogs and look at the wall. Saturday
he wanted to play with the dogs--he actually pulled
toward the dogs- kinda jumped around like he use to do
before he became aggressive- when he got close to another
dog.
Teacher was impressed with him but thought it was from
her class--I didn't tell her anything different-she had
tried but it sure was not working.
Today on our walk a dog went by and he alerted but did
not move toward the dog and when I called him he actually
came with his tail wagging and forget about the dog.
I have told everyone I see about your dog training-
-all my friends and neighbors know I have been so worried
and frustrated with Sunshine's behavior-infact some would
turn around and go the other way so as not to get close to us.
If people knew how easy it could be to get a dog to come
and listen to you there would be a lot less dogs in shelters.
I know I didn't know what to do and was afraid I would have
to kill him if he bite someone even though I loved him so
much.
--- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
HOWEDY Linda,
Your words are music to my ears, and are my
sunshine.
Thank you for being a good student. I'm available any time
you have a question or whatever.
Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training.
Yours, Jerry.
================================
HOWEDY Professora Daniel and Sunshine!
"Linda" <llindal...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.03032...@posting.google.com...
> Hi everyone--Today I took Sunshine for a walk and he heeled all
the
> way though a park and downtown area with people, dogs, bikes
ect.
Yeah. That's Sunshine, the dog you spent $5,000.00 and
SEVENTY HOWERS of training, including visits to Purdue
behavior clinic and dra pat mcconnell... all to no avail,
except that Sunshine was becoming MOORE aggressive
and MOORE HOWET of control.
In fact, he'd bitten you in his LIGHT / SHADOW CHASING
OCD fury just a couple days before you found your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual.
> We are now at a point I could only wish about just four months
ago.
You had a reliable come command installed within
three days of begining and had control of his
aggression from the very start, didn't you. Or rather,
Sunshine learned HOWE to control himself, from the
git go.
Didn't he..., Professora.
> He never looked at me when we were out but kept his nose on
> the ground smelling for over two years.
INDEEDY. His lack of attention and constant stopping
to occupy great lengths of time sniffing spots on the
grass made walking him a frustrating no win situation.
He also continued to jump on folks he knew well, for
a while. But we discussed HOWE COME you weren't
able to break those problems, and The Puppy Wizzzard
gave you a couple simple remedies which you could
have figgered HOWET for yourself with a little MOORE
familiarity with the technique and principles, and put
those annoyances away in a few minutes over a couple
of days, maybe even FASTER, like any other behavior problem.
Didn't you, Professora.
All behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
Aren't they, Professora. You've studied with "the best"
in the business and read every book you could find,
including "the cautious canine" and all of dr dunbar's
stuff, including of curse, karen pryor's C/T method,
which you became QUITE GOOD at.
UNFORTUNATELY HOWEver, the C/T method in itself is NOT
HARMLESS, as you've seen by your own dog's OCD behaviors,
like light and shadow chasing. IN FACT, his light / shadow chasing
behavior is HOWE COME you GOT BIT that last time, as you were
taking a CD outta the puter, it flashed a light and Sunshine bit
like
a Rainbow Trout... didn't he, Professora Daniel.
These problem OCD behaviors including self mutilation and tail
chasing amongst others, are CAUSED by tempting the dog and
withholding TREATS, to cause the dog to "throw behaviors"
according to the C/T method...
> Now using the Wits End's method of sound distraction and praise
You were able to interrupt the onset of his OCD behaviors,
and EXTINGUISHED THEM in a few minutes over a couple
of days... maybe LESS. Ain't that correct, Professora? You
don't got to answer THAT, just WON look at Sunshine will
tell the tail.
> he watches me and waits for my praise each time
> he looks my way which is every few seconds.
Yeah, cause he's OBSESSED WITH YOU, not a treat,
not out of fear (RESPECT, as HOWER dog lovers call
it), not for NUTHIN but cause you keep tellin him GOOD
BOY! NICE DOG!, every time he looks over at you.
He's on an invisible leash...
> I want everyone to know the change in my dog since
> I quit using any negative word or punishment and used
> only praise.
That's HOWE COME The Puppy Wizzzard gets 100%
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS with 100% of HIS FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students.
FAILURE MEANS DEATH in this business...
> Our relationship is so much more positive and I can enjoy
> him so much more.
Sunshine went from being DANGEROUS and HOWET of control
to being able to do therapy, service dog, AND protection work...
His behaviors are in perfect control in just a few HOWERS of EZ
work... isn't that correct, Professora.
> Even after using sound and praise for four months it is still
hard to
> believe how quickly I can change his behavior.
INDEED. The last of his behavior problems was that of his fixation
on kats. Broke that in a few days... and had the opportunity to
put
it to a RL test, when a kat suddenly crossed Sunshine's path and
you were able to return him to work, INSTANTLY... on your first
request.
Next time he'll NOT pay the kat no never mind noHOWE...
as you've seen with his former fixation on lizards.
> Using sound and praise he no longer barks at everything moving,
He'll bark like heel when it's appropriate...
> no longer lunges at dogs,
Yeah... cause you PRAISE HIM instead of trying to force
control, like you'll see HOWER dog lovers trying and
BREAKING THEIR BONES over, in my post "Three Stooges."
> can walk past lizzards, and enjoy being able to stay in control.
Yeah. It's like he's freakin GLUED to you.
> I can never thank Jerry
Not necessary... Sunshine took care of that for ya.
> and his Wits End approach
The gratitude goes to The Puppy Wizzzard's STUDENTS
over the past forty years...
> and Doggy Do Right machine for saving my dog.
The BIOSOUND Scientific Elves get the credit for THAT...
> Before I found his method my dog was a disaster waiting to
happen.
Yeah, ain't that the truth. Interesting, ain't it, HOWE
HOWER dog lovers here would disavail you and
Sunshine of all that, intentionally and maliciously,
only so they can defend their inappropriate and
ineffective methods and TOOLS... cause they ain't
got the goddamned intellect to HOWETwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog even after you
and Sunshine and all The Puppy Wizzzard's other
NEARLY INSTANTLY 100% SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Trained Students tell them...
HOWE THEY DONE IT, FAST, EZ, and FOR FREE.
> Sooner or later I would have not been able to hold
> him when he went off and he would have hurt someone.
For SHORE! But not noMOORE, eh Professora...
> I always admired people with dogs that stayed with them,
> were calm, and well mannered-
Yeah. I've always wondered HOWE COME these
"PRO TRAINERS" and incompetent university trained
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM imbeciles can ever achieve
that on rare occasion, myself.
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME they put such regard into
the simple AKC obedience and shitshound titles they talk
about working for YEARS to attain... EZ stuff, if you know HOWE.
Ain't it, Professora.
> -now I am the one people tell that they have a wonderful dog!!!
Yeah. You get PLENTY of compliments on Sunshine's behavior
NOW, don't you, Professora. Sunshine's just about PERFECT
in every regard. Ain't he, Professora.
You got me in trouble with the pro trainer's hot list, Professora.
When I told them The Puppy Wizzzard's CRIPPLED STUDENTS
can train a dangerous dog faster and better than they ever could,
and PROVED IT TO EM with your post, they BANNED The Puppy
Wizzzard from their "back room, where ANYTHING GOES!!!"
BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
BOTH THESE GUYS GOT DEAD DOGS CAUSE THEY DIDN'T
BELIEVE THEIR Puppy Wizzzard TILL IT WAS TOO LATE.
"misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16990-3C...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's not
here
> with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the
one
> who ignored your advice. I did it because of how you
write/wrote. I
> was unwilling to accept the idea that my using a shock collar
could have
> any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home. Up until I
started using
> it my main concern had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I
> started using the e-fence...well, then my concern became how to
keep
> them from running off for days on end.
> I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock
> debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
> I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g> A
Wits
> End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained, doesn't
chew up
> stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all the time. IOW a
great
> companion and friend.
> Thanks Jerry!
=====================
"misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.ne
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
> Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no
> collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to
> come back in the yard and would run for days. The
> last time, Peach didn't come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to
> train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
> minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in the
> yard.
> She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her
> from chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we
> walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
> e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
> then you need to train your dog. I will never rely on an
> electronic collar to keep my dog in our yard again.
> The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
============
"misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1199-3BD...@storefull-235.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a
> very loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to
> my 8 month old son.
> Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy's cage as a
> hold on for dear life object.
> Buddy wasn't exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older
> two boys went through this stage in a different house where
> Buddy had his own room and the boys had only visits, not
> daily contact 24/7.
> Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has
> been driving him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop
> screaming. A cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with
> all the widows shut <g> being in the house it makes your
> ears pop and your nerves crawl.
> Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to
> use it. He answered my questions quite politely.
> I have been using the DDR in my kitchen ( where Buddy is
> located~ teensy 4 room house) for 3 weeks.
> At first I noticed no difference in Buddy's behavior. Then I
> realized after a week that he no longer screamed for hours
> on end. This isn't to say he stopped completely <bg> he
> still demands his share of all meals. But he doesn't start
> screaming at 10 pm when he wants _everyone_ to go to bed.
> Last week he had a day where he screamed all day. My nerves
> were frazzled. I went to turn the DDR up a notch per Jerry's
> instructions. I discovered the DDR was shut off! I turned it
> back on and left it on the lowest setting. Buddy calmed back
> down and quit screaming.
> In the time that I've had the DDR on I've had a lot of c*ts
> come to my house. One I adopted and he's quite the sweetie.
> He's a yellow tiger named Gatomon ( means c*t monster) who
> is very friendly with my kids and Zelda.
> I may not like how Jerry treats other posters but I do like
> the methods he shares. Being on a limited budget I like
> things that are free. I also like the fact that I can e-mail
> him and get advice whenever I need it.
> Even my DH who is a technical minded kind of guy thinks the
> DDR is working. ( He went to Devry and has a degree in
> electronics, knows alot about radios and anything
> mechanical... he's a jack of all trades around the house
> <g>). He does NDT for a living.
> We don't expect to need the DDR forever.. As soon as Joey is
> walking, Buddy will realize that he's not a strange animal..
> some kind of furless dog or c*t <bg>.
==============================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===============
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Fitz [mailto:donf...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 11:53 a.m.
> To: Ama...@DCFWatch.com; paulb...@clear.net.nz
> Subject: Jerry Howe
>
> Hi,
> Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering what you
have to
> say of his training methods.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bousie" <paulb...@clear.net.nz>
To: "'Don Fitz'" <donf...@hotmail.com>; <Ama...@DCFWatch.com>
Cc: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe
> If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must already have
a good
> idea about what I think.
>
> His methods are the best I have come across. They aren't a quick
fix but
> an entire training concept so if you aren't in for the long haul
then
> don't bother. If you go his way then you have to forget all the
other
> gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe in what
you are
> doing, then and only then will you get the results.
> You can't combine his methods with other training methods, not
until you
> understand what you are trying to achieve, and even then I have
only ever
> combined about 2 other trainers ideas and even then just a snip
of what
they > suggest which works in parallel with the Wits End concept.
> His methods make you as the trainer completely responsible for
your
> actions, his methods make you think and work out your own
solutions for
> any given situation, the default (the recall) is always there to
get
> things under control again. His ideas and concepts teach you to
work
> with the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to work
together which
> is surely the best way to be.
> His methods don't use force or intimidation but they do totally
> emphasize the absolute importance of pack (family pack)
structure,
> without that you can achieve almost nothing.
> If you are wondering how a dog can be trained without any
negativity the
> answer lies in the recall, anytime your dog doesn't follow
through with
> a request you call him / her to you, since the recall is the
first thing
> taught and it is taught in such a way it becomes a reflex the
dog always
> returns to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and we
release
> it by asking for a "heel" which is an "equal" position.
> His methods are very good, his understanding of dogs is
excellent, I
> recommend his methods.
> Paul Bousie
Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686)
Phone: 1-888-WITSEND (1-888-948-7363)
The Puppy Wizard. <TPW;-)>
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizzzard. <{}YPW;~ } >
oo-oo
The Puppy Wizard
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns948B654F64B22ar...@130.133.1.4...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
> news:o40i205pl33a7e8bn...@4ax.com:
>
> > Here is what Kate wrote:
> > <Xns9476762AC6362ar...@130.133.1.4>
> >
> >Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed her out.
> >I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but she started
> >curling her lip. I shifted her into a different position and
> >started brushing an ear. She turned and snapped at the
> >air near the hand with the brush.
You shoulda said "GOOD GIRL, NICE DOG."
> >I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
> >again!" and
And INTIMIDATED her someMOORE when she
was already AFRAID of being MISHANDLED.
> >switched to brushing another part of her.
After REASSURING HER with "I glared at her and said,
"Don't you EVER do that again!" and
And then you MURDERED her as PREDICTED
by The Puppy Wizard when you first got Teena.
> >Later, I felt her over and couldn't find any obvious
> >reason that she might have been uncomfortable.
Dogs DO NOT attack their abusers cause they're
IN PAIN they ATTACK their ABUSER cause they're
AFRAID. If they was IN PAIN they'd probably be TOO
AFRAID to HURT their ABUSER.
> > Is that really someone who understands desensitizing?
No. That's someWON who's FEELINS was HURT.
> Charlie:
>
> Of course I understand desensitizing -
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and
And MURDERED HER.
> my original question came from bafflement
You got that natural born stupid look, like lyingdogDUMMY
and professor SCRUFF SHAKE, kwbrown.
> that this dog had, after years and years of daily
> brushing sessions, decided that this was the time
> to give me a hard time about it.
And you deconditioned the behavior through MURDER.
> Read carefully what you posted above:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
>There were no mats in her coat.
Dogs DEFEND themselves when they're
AFRAID, not HURT.
> This was not a painful experience.
Your dog snapped at you cause she didn't TRUST
YOU cause "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
And then you MURDERED her.
> I chose to brush another part of her body after
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and
And then you MURDERED her.
> the lip curl
When: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> in case something under the coat where I
> had been working was uncomfortable -
What was UNCOMFORTABLE was her TRUST
cause: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> and was rewarded with a snap.
Bruised your EGO. Didn't it.
> Desnsitizing had worked well for her when she
> came to us -
Did it NHOWE?
Like this?:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> it's how we got her more comfortable with fifty-year-old
> men (thanks to a neighbour who spent night after night
> "accidentally" perambulating around the block so we
> could get her to the point where she looked to me for
> treats
Offering dogs treats makes them suspiciHOWES.
> instead of going into attack mode at the sight of him.
> She had always accepted grooming. That snap was
> a shocker.
The dog never TRUSTED you cause you abused her.
> Letting her go un-groomed for more than about
> three days would have left her a matted mess
> and then subject to a clean-up that *would* have
> been uncomfortable - I was asking: what to do?
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> How to manage, how to re-train?
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> We were building a plan that included desensitzing
> her to grooming
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> and a physical check to see if anything else was wrong.
Dogs snap and turn on their abusers cause
they're SCARED of them. Like THIS: "I glared at
her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> Unfortunately, she then demonstrated that the
> unpredictable snapping was
What UNPREDICTABLE snapping? You HURT
and INTIMIDATED her since day WON. THAT'S
HOWE come you had to do THIS: "I glared at her
and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> not at all limited to grooming or handling -
CAUSE YOU SCARED HER.
> she snapped at my son for being in her space.
Cause you'd punished and intimidated her to
make her RESPECT your child. Just like HOWE
tara o. aka tee and steve walker hurt and intimidated
their DEAD DOGS Summer and Sampson... and made
them AFRAID and then MURDERED THEM.
> That is when we went from "how to manage this
> new behavior"
Like THIS: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> to "oh, dear."
INDEED.
> You disapprove of my response to the grooming snap.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
Perhaps you shoulda done what professor SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer recommends?:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
> I certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the head
> and give her a cookie.
RIGHT. Cause she bruised your EGO.
> Nor was I at all interested in letting her get away
> with that without comment.
Perhaps you just chose the WRONG WORDS?:
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS," for professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer of the department of
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI.
> Coated dogs don't get to decide when they get
> brushed out.
Not unless they wanna GET DEAD.
> There's room for an ethical debate:
No there ain't. You can't talk ETHICS with
liars and dog abusers and active incurable
long term MENTAL CASES.
> should we breed dogs who need brushing?
No. We should do like you done "I glared at her and
said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER JUST LIKE tara o. aka tee
and steve walker and Robert Crim did to their DEAD
DOGS Summer Sampson and Fritz The Wonder Dog.
> Since the vast majority of those coated dogs
> who are in the world don't mind it a bit,
You mean, dogs that aren't ABUSED.
> I don't think there's a big problem.
EXXXCEPT you got a PREDICTABLY DEAD DOG.
> So: The Teena question evolved before your eyes.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
And you MURDERED her.
> First, it was an issue of:
TRUST. YOU JERKED AND CHOKED AND
PROBABLY SHOCKED YOUR DOG TO MAKE
HER FEAR AND MISTRUST YOU.
> how/when to handle this dog, who has
> suddenly responded to routine,
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> required handling differently?
Perhaps you shouldn't have INTIMIDATED her?
> Then, it became a pattern of snapping and
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> resentful behaviour
YOU RESENTED, SHE REFLEXED TO FEAR.
> that went from annoying-to-me
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
Your annoyance MURDERED her.
> to dangerous in our household.
Cause she didn't TRUST you for ABUSING HER.
> Recalls went to pieces.
CAUSE SHE FEARED YOU.
> Her favourite training routines were met with resentment.
CAUSE YOU ABUSED HER: "I glared at her and said,
"Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> She had decided,
SHE WAS AFRAID.
> quite suddenly,
YOU REPEATEDLY ABUSED HER.
> that Storm was no longer allowed on our dock.
> And she had tried to bite two members of the family.
CASUE YOU ABUSED HER.
> I believe, and I have two vets, a behaviourist, a trainer,
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
THE SAME EXXXPERTS WHO TAUGHT YOU THIS:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> and the dog's own breeder backing me on this,
Your dog's breeder is a dog abuser. She shocks
and chokes and murders dogs like you did to Teena.
> that Teena was a fundamentally unstable dog
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> (ref: history in the original post if you want) who, with
> management (my management, of which you disapprove)
> and *tons* of training over the years, got a lot better.
No. You INTIMIDATED and AVOIDED and BRIBED, not
trained and reassured and calmed her.
> Even at her best, however, we spent a lot of
> energy managing her life and environment so
> she wouldn't get into fights with dogs or freak
> out at a strange person.
YOU MANAGED TO AVOID and INTIMIDATE her.
> Despite that work, however, she eventually went to pieces.
CAUSE: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> It turns out, incidentally, that the housebreaking
> accidents that we had been blaming on Storm
> have suddenly stopped. Teena was probably
> disintegrating more than we knew, longer than
> we ever suspected.
Dogs do not have HOWEsbreaking accidents they
relieve themselves in their HOWES when they're
AFRAID and UNHAPPY.
> For the record, the breeder has pulled two planned
> litters this year and is probably going to have to start
> her entire program over.
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> One wonky dog was a fluke.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> Two in the line is a pattern, and she's re-thinking everything.
SHE SHOCKS AND CHOKES HER DOGS... THAT'S
THE PROBLEM, NOT THE BREEDING.
> Charlie, you might have been able to perform miracles
> with this dog -
disciple charlie woulda had the same problems
cause he likes to BRIBE dogs to make them feel secure.
> we'll never know -
That so? We KNOW. It's OVER, kwbrown. Your
training methods are HOWE COME you MURDERED
your DEAD DOG Teena just like all the other DEAD
DOGS we've ENTERTRAINED TO DEATH right here.
> but I did the best I could for years and had great
> results until this last slide.
BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
NO.
> I require a dog with a bulletproof temperament
> in my household.
So you made her FEEL SAFE: "I glared at her and
said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> I coddled along a dog with a wonky one for
> as long as I possibly could.
Till she couldn't take it noMOORE.
> Assuming that you would have found a way
> to keep any living creature from pissing her off,
Abused dogs don't get ANGRY they get SCARED.
> and that you could have somehow managed to
> groom her without getting bit, I'm sure she
> could have lived longer with you than with us.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> Since, however, you aren't running a shelter for
> aggressive dogs, I had to do what I had to do
> and won't apologize for it.
RIGHT.
> Kate
That's HOWE COME you and your Gang Of
Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Coward pals
can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.
And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:
> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's YOU,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?
Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.
Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> >Di,
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43...@earthlink.net>
rhur...@earthlink.net writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
========================================================
Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its
face for 5
seconds:"
Hanging
THE REAL "HOOD"
Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
The Puppy Wizard
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns948B654F64B22ar...@130.133.1.4...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
> news:o40i205pl33a7e8bn...@4ax.com:
>
> > Here is what Kate wrote:
> > <Xns9476762AC6362ar...@130.133.1.4>
> >
> >Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed her out.
> >I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but she started
> >curling her lip.
You shoulda told her "GOOD GIRL, NICE DOG!"
> > I shifted her into a different position and
> > started brushing an ear.
Instead of reassuring and relaxing her.
> > She turned and snapped at the air near
> >the hand with the brush.
And you didn't EXXXPECT THAT afer she
curled a lip and warned you that she was SCARED.
> >I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!"
To put her at ease and make her TRUST you.
> > and switched to brushing another part of her.
IGNORING HER WARNINGS.
> > Later, I felt her over and couldn't find any obvious
> > reason that she might have been uncomfortable.
Dogs don't turn on their abusers cause they're
HURTING THEM they TURN on their ABUSERS
cause they're SCARED of them.
> > Is that really someone who understands desensitizing?
Yeah. kwbrown desensitized the dog like lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn or janet boss woulda
done with the approval of the rpd Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards and ACTIVE
CERTIFIED INCURABLE MENTAL CASES.
> Charlie:
>
> Of course I understand desensitizing -
Yeah. You MURDERED Teena. Like HOWE your
pal tara o. aka tee MURDERED her DEAD DOG
Summer whom she abused since leaving her litter.
> my original question came from bafflement that this
> dog had, after years and years of daily brushing
> sessions, decided that this was the time to give me
> a hard time about it.
Abuse builds up over a period of time and
critters GO PSYCHOTIC when they've had
enough and fear and mistrust their abusers.
> Read carefully what you posted above:
Your dog is DEAD.
> There were no mats in her coat.
The problem was TRUSTING not BRUSHING.
> This was not a painful experience.
Right. It was a FEARFUL experience.
> I chose to brush another part of her body after the lip curl
WithHOWET calming her. The Puppy Wizard finds
it IMPOSSIBLE to believe you didn't CHIN CHUCK
or scruff shake her when she curled her lip like HOWE
professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer recommends.
> in case something under the coat where I
> had been working was uncomfortable -
It was sumpthin arHOWEND her coat that
was FRIGHTENING.
> and was rewarded with a snap.
Cause you IGNORED her when she TOLD YOU
SHE WAS SCARED.
> Desnsitizing had worked well for her
INDEED. SHE'S DEAD. That's SUCCESS.
> when she came to us - it's how we got her more comfortable
MOORE COMFORTABLE doesn't say FRIENDLY or SAFE.
> with fifty-year-old men (thanks to a neighbour who
> spent night after night "accidentally" perambulating
> around the block so we could get her to the point
> where she looked to me for treats instead of going
> into attack mode at the sight of him.
PERHAPS Teena was ASKIN for a COOKIE.
That CAN HAPPEN, you know, when you BRIBE
a dog to break a behavior they'll often DO the
behavior to elicit the BRIBE to not do that noMOORE.
BWEEHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Tell that to jean donaldson.
> She had always accepted grooming.
And then you frightened and then you murdered her.
> That snap was a shocker.
Shouldn'ta been after SHE CURLED HER LIP AT YOU.
> Letting her go un-groomed for more than about
> three days would have
Given you the time it may take to train and recondition her.
> left her a matted mess and then subject to
> a clean-up that *would* have been uncomfortable
Only if you're heavy handed when you groom her.
> - I was asking: what to do?
You RETALIATED and then GOT SCARED and then
you MURDERED her like HOWE your pals do it.
> How to manage,
"Managing" is only gonna cause the problem to get worse.
> how to re-train?
You've never really trained her, you've only
bribed and hurt and intmidated her.
> We were building a plan that included desensitzing
> her to grooming and a physical check to see if anything
> else was wrong.
That's sheer idiocy. The dog wasn't objecting
to grooming she was objecting to YOU cause
YOU HURT HER since day WON, not that
day on the groomin table. Dogs REMEMBER
past ABUSE and have post traumatic stress
disorder just like any prisoner of war when
they're abused.
> Unfortunately, she then demonstrated that the
> unpredictable snapping
You mean the UNPREDICTABLE SNAPPING
after SHE CURLED HER LIP AT YOU. So you
PREDICTABLY scolded and intimidated her
someMOORE and PREDICTABLY MURDERED
HER.
> was not at all limited to grooming or handling -
CAUSE PROBLEMS CONTINUE TO GET WORSE
when you don't address them as they occur.
> she snapped at my son for being in her space.
NO. She snapped at your son for being AFRAID and ABUSED.
> That is when we went from "how to manage this new
> behavior" to "oh, dear."
Oh dear. So you sent her to a professiona dog abuser
to further hurt and intimidate her and she attacked him.
> You disapprove of my response to the grooming snap.
Yeah cause it PREDICTABLY SCARED HER AND
then you MURDERED her.
> I certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the head
Right. You SHOULDA SAID "GOOD GIRL NICE DOG
IT'S O.K. WE'RE HAVIN FUN JUST RELAX YOU'RE
A GOOD DOG " and she woulda rolled over and done
anything you asked.
> and give her a cookie.
NO. Bribery makes dogs suspiciHOWES
and defensive of their food.
> Nor was I at all interested in letting her get away
> with that without comment.
Right. Perhaps you chose the WRONG WORDS?
Maybe you shoulda said sumpthin like "GOOD
GIRL NICE DOG THAT'S A GOOD FELLA IT'S
O.K., YOU'RE A GOOD GIRL!" and she woulda
calmed dHOWEN and TRUSTED YOU.
But NO, you HAD to RETALIATE on a DUMB ANIMAL.
And that's not the worst part. The WORST PART is
you're raising your kids to be abused and become
abusers like yourself and your pals here abHOWETS.
> Coated dogs don't get to decide when they get
> brushed out.
RIGHT. THEY GET MURDERED if they don't hold still.
> There's room for an ethical debate:
No. There's no room for any MOORE DISS-CUSSION.
> should we breed dogs who need brushing?
The question is should you be allHOWED by law
to MOLEST a dog and MURDER IT cause your
EGO can't stand REJECTION.
> Since the vast majority of those coated dogs
> who are in the world don't mind it a bit,
They got no choice, you MURDER THEM that don't hold still.
> I don't think there's a big problem.
The Puppy Wizard sez you're an unfit mother.
> So: The Teena question evolved before your eyes.
INDEEDY. The Puppy Wizard been TELLIN YOU that
you'd MURDER YOUR DOG if you continued to ABUSE
her as you've been taught. Your pal deirdre edwards
MURDERED her first dog a couple weeks ago cause
of destructive separation anxiHOWESNESS and dog
aggression from ABUSE.
> First, it was an issue of: how/when to handle this dog,
The Puppy Wizard has a PRECISE method for
training all dogs for all behaviors using trust and
scientific and psychological condtioning techniques.
> who has suddenly responded to routine, required
> handling differently?
Dogs don't do things for no reason. Your dog
WARNED YOU she was AFRAID and you
ignored and further provoked and intimidated
and then MURDERED her. That's criminally
INSANE.
> Then, it became a pattern of snapping
Snapping at being groomed by someWON
who'd been HURTING her since day WON.
> and resentful behaviour
Resentful of being intimidated.
> that went from annoying-to-me
No. It INSULTED, INFURIATED and SCARED YOU.
> to dangerous in our household.
CAUSE YOU ESCALATED HER FEAR AGGRESSION.
> Recalls went to pieces.
Begining to see a pattern? She was AFRAID of you.
> Her favourite training routines were met with resentment.
You say FAVORITE cause of that HAPPY DANCE she
does when she sees her pronged spiked pinch choke
collar comin? That EXXXCITEMENT is FEAR.
> She had decided,
Dogs only respond in PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE and REFLEXIVE
ways to situations and circumstances of their environment
which we create for them.
> quite suddenly, that Storm was no longer allowed on our
> dock. And she had tried to bite two members of the family.
That's all on accHOWENT of you PUNISHED HER.
> I believe, and I have two vets, a behaviourist, a trainer,
BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Have them talk to The Puppy Wizard and we'll
SEE HOWE COME your dog is DEAD.
> and the dog's own breeder
You mean the shock collar trainer / ethickal breeder...
> backing me on this,
YOUR DOG IS DEAD CAUSE THEY'RE INCOMPETENT.
> that Teena was a fundamentally unstable dog
What do you EXXXPECT an INCOMPETENT trainer /
behaviorist who CAN'T TRAIN YOUR DOG to SAY???
You think they're gonna tell you your dog HOWEtwitted
them and scared them into GIVIN UP?
> (ref: history in the original post if you want)
The Puppy Wizard has been following Teena's
case history since day WON nearly four years ago
and HE'S BEEN TELLIN YOU YOU'D MURDER HER.
> who, with management (my management, of which
> you disapprove) and *tons* of training over the
> years, got a lot better.
YEAH. SHE'S DEAD.
> Even at her best, however, we spent a lot of
> energy managing her life and environment so
> she wouldn't get into fights with dogs or freak
> out at a strange person.
RIGHT. THAT'S HOWE COME SHE'S DEAD.
> Despite that work,
NO. ON ACCHOWENT OF IT.
> however, she eventually went to pieces.
Took much longer than it should have. Teena
was a wonderful brave dog. You're a dog abuser.
> It turns out, incidentally,
NO. It turns HOWET PREDICTABLY.
> that the housebreaking accidents that we had been
> blaming on Storm have suddenly stopped.
Healthy dogs DO NOT HAVE HOWEsbreaking ACCIDENTS.
They're on puporses cause the dogs is UPSET and AFRAID.
> Teena was probably disintegrating more than
> we knew, longer than we ever suspected.
Teena was in fear of her life since you first hurt her.
> For the record,
INDEEDY. It's indellibly inscribed in The Puppy
Wizard's Archives, FOREVER. The Puppy Wizard
LIVES for CASE HISTORIES like yours, kwbrowh,
that's HIS only PAYCHECK. Thank you for participating
in The Puppy Wizard's Human Behavior Laboratory.
> the breeder has pulled two planned litters this year and
> is probably going to have to start her entire program over.
Because she blames the dog for being intolerant of ABUSE.
> One wonky dog was a fluke.
No. It was ABUSED.
> Two in the line is a pattern,
INDEED. Did your ethickal breeder shove her
fingers dHOWEN the pups throats to gently
choke them HOWETA mHOWETHING in
the litter box? That's HOWE lying frosty dahl
and lyingdogDUMMY train their pups for their
CASH CUSTOMERS.
> and she's re-thinking everything.
Every thing EXXXCEPT not hurtin her dogs noMOORE.
> Charlie, you might have been able to perform
> miracles with this dog -
NO. disciple charlie woulda BRIBED her just like
he did his own dog Holly and got the PREDICTABLE
RESULTS and is at risk of ending up just like Teena.
> we'll never know -
Ahhh, but we DO know, and the DATA is all
in The Puppy Wizard's Archives.
> but I did the best I could for years
NO. You HURT HER as best you could.
> and had great results
NO YOU DIDN'T:
"Even at her best, however, we spent a lot of
energy managing her life and environment so
she wouldn't get into fights with dogs or freak
out at a strange person."
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> until this last slide.
You mean when you provoked her after she
warned you she was SCARED.
> I require a dog with a bulletproof temperament
> in my household.
Well then you'll have to follow your koehler book
and HURT your dogs MOORE THAN YOU LIKE
to get the same results koehler did.
> I coddled along a dog with a wonky one for
> as long as I possibly could.
No. You hurt confined bribed and intimidated
and MURDERD her like your pals alway do.
> Assuming that you would have found a way
> to keep any living creature from pissing her off,
Yeah. It's called TRAININ.
> and that you could have somehow managed to
> groom her without getting bit,
That's not a problem if the dog TRUSTS you.
> I'm sure she could have lived longer with
> you than with us.
She coulda lived her natural life if you hadn't abused her.
> Since, however, you aren't running a shelter
> for aggressive dogs,
Your dog was MADE aggressive by copying your
actions and attitude, ala allelomimetic behavior.
Ask jean donaldson abHOWET that.
> I had to do what I had to do
No. You HURT her cause she bruised your EGO
and then you MURDERED HER when she scared you.
> and won't apologize for it.
RIGHT... CAUSE YOU'D BE RECOGNIZING
YOUR OWN HUMAN NATURE AND THAT'S
HOWE COME YOU HURT AND MURDERED
YOUR DEAD DOG.
> Kate
The leopard can't change his spots, kwbrown.
Not even if The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
all over the Whole Wild World tell you HOWE
they done it NEARLY INSTANTLY GENTLY and
FOR FREE:
The Puppy Wizard
"KWBrown" <arfenar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns948B654F64B22ar...@130.133.1.4...
> Charlie Wilkes <charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
> news:o40i205pl33a7e8bn...@4ax.com:
>
> > Here is what Kate wrote:
> > <Xns9476762AC6362ar...@130.133.1.4>
> >
> >Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed her out.
> >I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but she started
> >curling her lip. I shifted her into a different position and
> >started brushing an ear. She turned and snapped at the
> >air near the hand with the brush.
You shoulda said "GOOD GIRL, NICE DOG."
> >I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
> >again!" and
And INTIMIDATED her someMOORE when she
was already AFRAID of being MISHANDLED.
> >switched to brushing another part of her.
After REASSURING HER with "I glared at her and said,
"Don't you EVER do that again!" and
And then you MURDERED her as PREDICTED
by The Puppy Wizard when you first got Teena.
> >Later, I felt her over and couldn't find any obvious
> >reason that she might have been uncomfortable.
Dogs DO NOT attack their abusers cause they're
IN PAIN they ATTACK their ABUSER cause they're
AFRAID. If they was IN PAIN they'd probably be TOO
AFRAID to HURT their ABUSER.
> > Is that really someone who understands desensitizing?
No. That's someWON who's FEELINS was HURT.
> Charlie:
>
> Of course I understand desensitizing -
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and
And MURDERED HER.
> my original question came from bafflement
You got that natural born stupid look, like lyingdogDUMMY
and professor SCRUFF SHAKE, kwbrown.
> that this dog had, after years and years of daily
> brushing sessions, decided that this was the time
> to give me a hard time about it.
And you deconditioned the behavior through MURDER.
> Read carefully what you posted above:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
>There were no mats in her coat.
Dogs DEFEND themselves when they're
AFRAID, not HURT.
> This was not a painful experience.
Your dog snapped at you cause she didn't TRUST
YOU cause "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
And then you MURDERED her.
> I chose to brush another part of her body after
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and
And then you MURDERED her.
> the lip curl
When: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> in case something under the coat where I
> had been working was uncomfortable -
What was UNCOMFORTABLE was her TRUST
cause: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> and was rewarded with a snap.
Bruised your EGO. Didn't it.
> Desnsitizing had worked well for her when she
> came to us -
Did it NHOWE?
Like this?:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that
again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> it's how we got her more comfortable with fifty-year-old
> men (thanks to a neighbour who spent night after night
> "accidentally" perambulating around the block so we
> could get her to the point where she looked to me for
> treats
Offering dogs treats makes them suspiciHOWES.
> instead of going into attack mode at the sight of him.
> She had always accepted grooming. That snap was
> a shocker.
The dog never TRUSTED you cause you abused her.
> Letting her go un-groomed for more than about
> three days would have left her a matted mess
> and then subject to a clean-up that *would* have
> been uncomfortable - I was asking: what to do?
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> How to manage, how to re-train?
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> We were building a plan that included desensitzing
> her to grooming
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER.
> and a physical check to see if anything else was wrong.
Dogs snap and turn on their abusers cause
they're SCARED of them. Like THIS: "I glared at
her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
And THEN you MURDERED her.
> Unfortunately, she then demonstrated that the
> unpredictable snapping was
What UNPREDICTABLE snapping? You HURT
and INTIMIDATED her since day WON. THAT'S
HOWE come you had to do THIS: "I glared at her
and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> not at all limited to grooming or handling -
CAUSE YOU SCARED HER.
> she snapped at my son for being in her space.
Cause you'd punished and intimidated her to
make her RESPECT your child. Just like HOWE
tara o. aka tee and steve walker hurt and intimidated
their DEAD DOGS Summer and Sampson... and made
them AFRAID and then MURDERED THEM.
> That is when we went from "how to manage this
> new behavior"
Like THIS: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> to "oh, dear."
INDEED.
> You disapprove of my response to the grooming snap.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
Perhaps you shoulda done what professor SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer recommends?:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
> I certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the head
> and give her a cookie.
RIGHT. Cause she bruised your EGO.
> Nor was I at all interested in letting her get away
> with that without comment.
Perhaps you just chose the WRONG WORDS?:
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS," for professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer of the department of
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI.
> Coated dogs don't get to decide when they get
> brushed out.
Not unless they wanna GET DEAD.
> There's room for an ethical debate:
No there ain't. You can't talk ETHICS with
liars and dog abusers and active incurable
long term MENTAL CASES.
> should we breed dogs who need brushing?
No. We should do like you done "I glared at her and
said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND MURDERED HER JUST LIKE tara o. aka tee
and steve walker and Robert Crim did to their DEAD
DOGS Summer Sampson and Fritz The Wonder Dog.
> Since the vast majority of those coated dogs
> who are in the world don't mind it a bit,
You mean, dogs that aren't ABUSED.
> I don't think there's a big problem.
EXXXCEPT you got a PREDICTABLY DEAD DOG.
> So: The Teena question evolved before your eyes.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
And you MURDERED her.
> First, it was an issue of:
TRUST. YOU JERKED AND CHOKED AND
PROBABLY SHOCKED YOUR DOG TO MAKE
HER FEAR AND MISTRUST YOU.
> how/when to handle this dog, who has
> suddenly responded to routine,
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> required handling differently?
Perhaps you shouldn't have INTIMIDATED her?
> Then, it became a pattern of snapping and
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> resentful behaviour
YOU RESENTED, SHE REFLEXED TO FEAR.
> that went from annoying-to-me
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
Your annoyance MURDERED her.
> to dangerous in our household.
Cause she didn't TRUST you for ABUSING HER.
> Recalls went to pieces.
CAUSE SHE FEARED YOU.
> Her favourite training routines were met with resentment.
CAUSE YOU ABUSED HER: "I glared at her and said,
"Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> She had decided,
SHE WAS AFRAID.
> quite suddenly,
YOU REPEATEDLY ABUSED HER.
> that Storm was no longer allowed on our dock.
> And she had tried to bite two members of the family.
CASUE YOU ABUSED HER.
> I believe, and I have two vets, a behaviourist, a trainer,
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
THE SAME EXXXPERTS WHO TAUGHT YOU THIS:
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> and the dog's own breeder backing me on this,
Your dog's breeder is a dog abuser. She shocks
and chokes and murders dogs like you did to Teena.
> that Teena was a fundamentally unstable dog
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> (ref: history in the original post if you want) who, with
> management (my management, of which you disapprove)
> and *tons* of training over the years, got a lot better.
No. You INTIMIDATED and AVOIDED and BRIBED, not
trained and reassured and calmed her.
> Even at her best, however, we spent a lot of
> energy managing her life and environment so
> she wouldn't get into fights with dogs or freak
> out at a strange person.
YOU MANAGED TO AVOID and INTIMIDATE her.
> Despite that work, however, she eventually went to pieces.
CAUSE: "I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER
do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> It turns out, incidentally, that the housebreaking
> accidents that we had been blaming on Storm
> have suddenly stopped. Teena was probably
> disintegrating more than we knew, longer than
> we ever suspected.
Dogs do not have HOWEsbreaking accidents they
relieve themselves in their HOWES when they're
AFRAID and UNHAPPY.
> For the record, the breeder has pulled two planned
> litters this year and is probably going to have to start
> her entire program over.
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> One wonky dog was a fluke.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
> Two in the line is a pattern, and she's re-thinking everything.
SHE SHOCKS AND CHOKES HER DOGS... THAT'S
THE PROBLEM, NOT THE BREEDING.
> Charlie, you might have been able to perform miracles
> with this dog -
disciple charlie woulda had the same problems
cause he likes to BRIBE dogs to make them feel secure.
> we'll never know -
That so? We KNOW. It's OVER, kwbrown. Your
training methods are HOWE COME you MURDERED
your DEAD DOG Teena just like all the other DEAD
DOGS we've ENTERTRAINED TO DEATH right here.
> but I did the best I could for years and had great
> results until this last slide.
BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
NO.
> I require a dog with a bulletproof temperament
> in my household.
So you made her FEEL SAFE: "I glared at her and
said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> I coddled along a dog with a wonky one for
> as long as I possibly could.
Till she couldn't take it noMOORE.
> Assuming that you would have found a way
> to keep any living creature from pissing her off,
Abused dogs don't get ANGRY they get SCARED.
> and that you could have somehow managed to
> groom her without getting bit, I'm sure she
> could have lived longer with you than with us.
"I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and"
AND THEN YOU MURDERED HER.
> Since, however, you aren't running a shelter for
> aggressive dogs, I had to do what I had to do
> and won't apologize for it.
RIGHT.