Goats eating tree bark.
Wesley Trotman
Its winter here which means that they have mainly green grass to feed on. We
are supplementing their feed with hay mix of lupins/rye. Though they largely
leave the rye which I thought if they are needing roughage they would have
eaten.
Pat Colebys book on Natual Goat Care says bark eating eating indicates
copper deficiency, we feed them some copper and cobalt either with some
grain or in the summer in their water. Boyh of these minerals are deficient
in our area.
My next thought is to buy some general mineral blocks containing a wide
range of minerals and also try feeding them pea straw hhay.
Has anyone had any experience of goats eating tree bark?
Wes.
DDilday239
Wes. >>
The Designer’s Manual always shows the trees protected from goats, etc. via
wire enclosure. I know that is no help. Sorry.
Please post what you learn.
Dennis
rarangi
Wesley Trotman
rarangi <s...@pe.goat> wrote in message news:39571E...@pe.goat...
hthomas
> I find our goats are chewing the bark from the trees in their paddoch.
> Its winter here which means that they have mainly green grass to feed on.
We
> are supplementing their feed with hay mix of lupins/rye. Though they
largely
> leave the rye which I thought if they are needing roughage they would have
eaten.
Most breeds of goats (can't think of the exception off the top of my head)
are naturally browsers, not grazers. Mine very rarely seem to go for grass,
prefering any tree leaves, brambles, thistles, etc. Even the hay might not
be coarse enough for them. Good hay shouldn't be too rough/coarse as when
the grasses get old all the nutrition has gone. My goats won't touch bad (ie
stalky) hay
> My next thought is to buy some general mineral blocks containing a wide
> range of minerals and also try feeding them pea straw hhay.
If you know that you lack these minerals it's probably worth getting a
block. Any hay,grass, trees etc growing there are going to lack them,
although the trees deeper roots may be able to bring some up, but obviously
only if it's there.
> Has anyone had any experience of goats eating tree bark?
All the time Wes :-)
Heather
Judanne Simpson
orchard, but had put electrified wires very loosely around the trees. I
*think* it was battery powered, but I really don't remember. I do remember
that the wires were loose and off the ground. I think that was so the
chooks could forage underneath.
Judanne
--
Ms. Jude Simpson
Energy Consultant - Energy Efficient Systems.
SAVE 10 - 30% OFF YOUR BUSINESS POWER BILL.
See how at www.energyautomation.com then contact me at
ju...@hotkey.net.au for a consultation.
"DDilday239" <ddild...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000625232654...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> << Has anyone had any experience of goats eating tree bark?
>
dannyboy
natural survivors and thrive in the harshest environments in
the world. Afghanistan, Nubia, etc. Not many cows, no
pigs, but lots of goats.
I like goats. They are wise, tough, and smelly. If
I had more land, I'd have some pigmy goats just for the fun
of it. A friend of mine runs a pick-it-yourself apple
orchard, and had lots of pigmy goats running around 'wild'.
The customers love them more than the apples.
But, they will eat whatever suits them, so fence
them out of whatever you want to protect. Oh, they are real
jumpers and can climb fences, too. Real survivors.
Anyone else ever had 'Goathead Soup'.?
luck,
rev. dan...
Wesley Trotman
have had some nutirional value.
I herded the goats into the paddoch which has young trees ( keeping them
away from the vunerable ones) and plenty of feed, they went into feeding
frenzy including grass. So I can assume they are short on feed or variety of
feed hence eating the bark.
Wes.
hthomas <hth...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:BX665.2490$r4....@news.indigo.ie...
> > Has anyone had any experience of goats eating tree bark?
DDilday239
orchard, and had lots of pigmy goats running around 'wild'.<snip>
luck,
rev. dan...
>>
Hey rev - do the pigmy goats also give milk? (that may sound like a stupid
question, but if they do, I am going to wonder how much).
Dennis
Dennis
Reedbed
Judanne Simpson <ju...@hotkey.net.au> wrote in message
news:3957...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> I went to visit David Holmgren's place last year. He had goats in his
> orchard, but had put electrified wires very loosely around the trees. I
> *think* it was battery powered, but I really don't remember. I do
remember
> that the wires were loose and off the ground. I think that was so the
> chooks could forage underneath.
>
Hmmm. But shouldn't a permaculture orchard have fruit bushes between the top
fruit trees, perennial herbs between these, ground cover etc etc... Where do
the goats fit in ?
Sounds facetious, but that sounds more like a conventional orchard than my
idea of a pc orchard. Am I missing something ?
Tell us more...
Mark
dannyboy
wrote:
Well, you got me there. I never asked. Maybe they
do give enough to make milking worth while. I think, though
they keep the goats because they're cute, and the children
did it at first as a 4H project. I do know they eat one
occationally. Next time (fall) I'm out there I'll ask about
the milking.
vr,
rev. dan...
DDilday239
DD
AndreaMc
> << snip> A friend of mine runs a pick-it-yourself apple
> orchard, and had lots of pigmy goats running around 'wild'.<snip>
>
> luck,
> rev. dan...
> >>
>
> Hey rev - do the pigmy goats also give milk? (that may sound like a stupid
> question, but if they do, I am going to wonder how much).
>
> Dennis
>
Hi Dennis and All,
I don't think it's a stupid question, but I can't answer it, sorry :) I
wanted to ask a potentially stupid question of my own and was hoping one of
the goat-owning people could help me out? Do you need to "treat"
(pasteurise) home grown milk? Some one told me once that you do.
Thanks
Andrea
hthomas
> Judanne Simpson wrote<
> > I went to visit David Holmgren's place last year. He had goats in his
> > orchard,
Reedbed <> wrote in message >
> Hmmm. But shouldn't a permaculture orchard have fruit bushes between the
top
> fruit trees, perennial herbs between these, ground cover etc etc...
This sounds like agroforestry to me. One of Robert Hart's (The UK's Bill
Mollison) first books was on this subject.
The 'typical' pc food forest is no place for ranging animals. I think that
real PC farms should concentrate on the agroforestry approach to PC. Even
something simple like growing timber trees in pasture, would allow multi -
cropping, It's not what most permies think of as PC, but it's much more
likely to be profitable and thus attractive to 'normal' farmers. Infact The
Farmers Journal (Ireland's mainstream farming paper) have had articles on
agroforestry!!
Heather
PS Has anyone come across 'foggage'? (It's a type of grassland management)
Reedbed
> Hi Dennis and All,
> I don't think it's a stupid question, but I can't answer it, sorry :) I
> wanted to ask a potentially stupid question of my own and was hoping one
of
> the goat-owning people could help me out? Do you need to "treat"
> (pasteurise) home grown milk? Some one told me once that you do.
Hi Andrea,
We don't pasteurise ours, and it's perfectly OK. Especially now that we
have a reliable fridge to keep it in. But I have a feeling that you'd have
to pasteurise it if it's for sale.
That's not a stupid question at all :-)
HTH
Mark
Wesley Trotman
If you know your goat (or cow) is healthy you dont need to treat it.
Some people boil the milk before using it.
Wes
AndreaMc <andr...@NOSPAMone.net.au> wrote in message
news:395c...@pink.one.net.au...
> > Hi Dennis and All,
Snip
? Do you need to "treat"
> (pasteurise) home grown milk? Some one told me once that you do.
> Thanks
> Andrea
>
>
AndreaMc
Andrea
Reedbed <ree...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:P9975.3252$r4....@news.indigo.ie...
> AndreaMc <andr...@NOSPAMone.net.au> wrote >
> > Hi Dennis and All,
> > I don't think it's a stupid question, but I can't answer it, sorry :) I
> > wanted to ask a potentially stupid question of my own and was hoping one
> of
> > the goat-owning people could help me out? Do you need to "treat"
> > (pasteurise) home grown milk? Some one told me once that you do.
>
DDilday239
Heather - This applies to a question that came up this past weekend while
checking on chicken breeds, etc. In East Wenatchee (a small town across the
Columbia from what will be classified as a Metropolis when the results of the
Census comes out) I found a guy raising Bard Rock and Rock Isl Red chickens in
his back yard. I visited him a while and picked his brain re: all the issues.
It was his contention and experience that a chicken that could “free range” in
a small garden and not eat the produce does not exist. (He also agreed with
some of the advise I have gotten here that Bantam’s would fly... His are kept
in by a 5' wooden fence surrounding his yard and the 4' wire fence about 4' in
from that one.) It is looking like a chicken tractor rotated around a site is
most appropriate for the domestic scale egg production system I envision. (Next
question, how do you rotate a C. Tractor over raised beds?)
Dennis
John Neale Baraclough
from ddild...@aol.com (DDilday239) contains these words:
Bantams are pretty, but you can't eat them, they lay out,they fly
high, the eggs are small,they go broody at the drop of a hat (and
make wonderful tight sitters for other eggs)and they will never lay
through a winter in my experience.Every home chicken keeper I ever
met started with bantams, which were always given to them free :-),
and always ended up getting rid of them for some real chickens.
I find the best method is to have a veg/soft fruit garden where
chickens are not allowed.That gives birds the rest of the garden to
range free.The diversity and volume of foods I've watched mine take
for themselves won't be found under a mobile pen two people can shift
around a small number of raised beds, and it really seems to me if
you're going to confine them, a permanent larger pen is a better
answer, because you can give them more room and much better
conditions inside it.
However tempting it appears to put a chicken tractor over veg
beds,there are disadvantages imho; the lugging of the ct with its
shaded area, egg laying bit, water supply and birds (and getting
someone else to do it if you're away);the fact that hens can't escape
a cock; the chickens eating the worms which benefit the soil in the
raised bed; and the lack of grass.Chickens which eat a lot of fresh
green stuff lay the tastiest eggs with deepest yolks.
Janet
Reedbed
> It is looking like a chicken tractor rotated around a site is
> most appropriate for the domestic scale egg production system I envision.
(Next
> question, how do you rotate a C. Tractor over raised beds?)
Hi Dennis,
If you're talking about raised beds with sides - eg. timber - you could make
a movable ark that sits on the bed sides, with a run of the same width.
You'd have to make all your beds the same width, but it would give good
control over which bits you wanted grazed.
I think Eliot Colman talks about this in 4-Season Harvest. He also mentions
having cloches and wire-netting enclosures to keep out birds, using the same
fixed width idea.
HTH
Mark
hthomas
Dennid wrote
>I visited him a while and picked his brain re: all the issues.
> It was his contention and experience that a chicken that could "free
range" in
> a small garden and not eat the produce does not exist.
The other problem with chickens is that they scratch in the dirt. It may
help to have ducks instead. 1. They don't scratch or take dust baths, 2.
Less likely to nibble stuff and 3. they'll eat all your slugs. With my luck
however they'd learn to do all the stuff chooks do. I'm having a problem
with goat kids that like to free range in my garden:-( Little blighters are
still small enough to squeeze thru' the sheep wire, going to have to buy
some chicken wire to fence them out!!
It is looking like a chicken tractor rotated around a site is
> most appropriate for the domestic scale egg production system I envision.
(Next
> question, how do you rotate a C. Tractor over raised beds?)
Are your beds edged with any thing Dennis? We have some done with 4x2s. I
suppose you could make the pen/house with timber of the same thickness and
it would rest on the edges. How many hens do you want to keep? The main
problem with moveable arks is the moving :-) To stand up to wear and tear
you end up making something it takes two people to shift!!
I still favour a central house and rotating the hens thru' 3/4/5 pens, but
then I'd want to keep quite a few hens.
Heather
DDilday239
If you're talking about raised beds with sides - eg. timber - you could make a
think Eliot Colman talks about this in 4-Season Harvest.M<snip>
HTH
Mark >>
Mark - Thanks. His book is on my list to get... guess I need to move it up the
list a couple notches:-)
Dennis
Reedbed
--
Janet wrote>
Snip
> I find the best method is to have a veg/soft fruit garden where
> chickens are not allowed.
An idea we had on chickens and soft fruit, is to set up a proper fruit cage.
This could contain all the food forest plants except the top fruit and
timber trees. You'd save your soft fruit from wild birds etc, which if you
have a limited amount of space to grow fruit could be stripped bare by the
odd blackbird or two. We're getting lots of losses here, but hopefully cos
we have plenty of bushes shall be able to get some of the crop to store.
Anyway back to chooks... In the winter the hens could be let into the F/cage
to live. This would allow them to eat any left over fruit and bugs, scratch
about, do some manuring etc. We did this with our polytunnel and definately
saw a reduction in aphids the next year.
>.That gives birds the rest of the garden to
> range free.The diversity and volume of foods I've watched mine take
> for themselves won't be found under a mobile pen two people can shift
> around a small number of raised beds,
I hope all writings on C/T makes it clear that hens will still need feeding
if they are in the runs with corn/mash/etc? Hens are omnivorous and take a
lot of feeding to maintain health and produce eggs or meat. Thinking back I
think it's 2 ounces of grain/layers pellets twice a day.
>and it really seems to me if
> you're going to confine them, a permanent larger pen is a better
> answer, because you can give them more room and much better
> conditions inside it.
Especially if you provide 2 or three pens you can rotate, grow cover crops
in to supplement feed, bushes of hawthorn etc. You can throw in all the
weeds etc for them and still have a garden .
> However tempting it appears to put a chicken tractor over veg
> beds,there are disadvantages imho; the lugging of the ct with its
> shaded area, egg laying bit, water supply and birds (and getting
> someone else to do it if you're away);the fact that hens can't escape
> a cock; the chickens eating the worms which benefit the soil in the
> raised bed; and the lack of grass.Chickens which eat a lot of fresh
> green stuff lay the tastiest eggs with deepest yolks.
Totally agree with all that Janet's written. :-)
Heather
Reedbed
Talking of all things chicken related, where's Bill and Trisha? (Down in
Cornwall)
They were talking about chicken runs last time they posted.
HELLO is anyone out there?
Heather
John Neale Baraclough
from "Reedbed" <ree...@gofree.indigo.ie> contains these words:
> An idea we had on chickens and soft fruit, is to set up a proper fruit cage.
> This could contain all the food forest plants except the top fruit and
> timber trees. You'd save your soft fruit from wild birds etc, which if you
> have a limited amount of space to grow fruit could be stripped bare by the
> odd blackbird or two. We're getting lots of losses here, but hopefully cos
> we have plenty of bushes shall be able to get some of the crop to store.
> Anyway back to chooks... In the winter the hens could be let into the F/cage
> to live. This would allow them to eat any left over fruit and bugs, scratch
> about, do some manuring etc. We did this with our polytunnel and definately
> saw a reduction in aphids the next year.
I have a lot of blackbirds and thrushes here but the only fruit
they really strip is redcurrants and cherries; I lose a few
strawberries and blackcurrants but not enough to worry about.Snowfall
means people have to remove fruitcage top nets during winter here,or
the weight breaks it, but I imagine you won't get that problem.
> I hope all writings on C/T makes it clear that hens will still need feeding
> if they are in the runs with corn/mash/etc? Hens are omnivorous and take a
> lot of feeding to maintain health and produce eggs or meat. Thinking back I
> think it's 2 ounces of grain/layers pellets twice a day.
Dunno, ours just have a trough of pellets available ad lib and a
handful of scattered corn whenever, usually as a bribe not to hover
under my feet while I'm working.Bad psychology, even hens can work
that one out :-)
Janet
DDilday239
BTW, for me to eat a couple eggs per day average I was thinking 3-4 full sized
chickens would do... even there though I am getting a variety of opinions. I
think there are enough variable to account for lots of different results. Good
regular feed of quality and variety for example would probably influence laying
quite a bit, logically.
Dennis