All families are dysfunctional
David Wren-Hardin
In article <jim-280497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>,
heck <j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> wrote:
>
>?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
>for a kid her daughters age.
Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising Series, the first book is _Over Sea Under Stone_.
Whatever series has _The Black Cauldron_ and _Taran Wanderer_ in it
by Lloyd Alexander.
I'd recommend Pern too, although the main series may be alittle adult for
her, or rather, her mother. The Harper Hall books would be fine though
I'd think.
--
David Wren-Hardin | Support Darwinian evolution --
bd...@midway.uchicago.edu | Squash a weakling today.
da...@data.uchicago.edu |
http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/bdh4/
Brian Trosko
David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
: heck <j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> wrote:
: >?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
: >for a kid her daughters age.
: Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising Series, the first book is _Over Sea Under Stone_.
: Whatever series has _The Black Cauldron_ and _Taran Wanderer_ in it
: by Lloyd Alexander.
The *early* Xanth novels were good, but Anthony started turning out utter
tripe after the fourth one or so. Madeline L'Engles _Wrinkle In Time_
series.
And Howard's Conan novels. You're never too young for that stuff.
Deirdre Sholto-Douglas
In alt.peeves Poison Candy <conc...@netcom.com> wrote:
: l...@netcom.com (Larry Colen) writes:
: >I'd say, start (someone's kid) off on Heinlein juveniles (Podkayne
: of Mars).
: Euccch. Podkayne is so nauseatingly cute. I can't believe you,
: I say start her off on _Glory Road_. Then she can learn her
: true function is to lead men into trouble.
Doesn't matter *what* you start her off with. Give her one
Heinlein juvenile and she'll probably read the lot. Lauren
started with _Red Planet_.
Deirdre
--
| Deirdre Sholto-Douglas | e-mail: fi...@Mercury.mcs.com |
| | |
******* The only acceptable substitute for intelligence *******
is silence.
Robert Sneddon (SEE .SIG TO RE
In article <jim-280497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>
j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam "heck" writes:
> ?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
> for a kid her daughters age. Seems the kid is starting to read
> like crazy (there is hope) I had to come up with a list that
> wouldn't be over the kids head (bye Niven, et al) and didn't contain
> too much risque material (bye pretty much everyone else) 'Bout
> all I could come up with is McCaffery's Pern series and CS Lewis'
> Narnia.
If your sister reads the Pern stuff before passing it on to her
daughter, she'll do her nut. Anne's books are borderline bodice-rippers,
with lots of steamy Dragonrider sex (usually when the dragons are
mating...) Narnia is a nice tale, but the human protagonists made
my fists itch when I was twelve or so, and the itch has only moved
to my toecaps since then. Remember C.S. Lewis was a religious nut,
and when he wasn't disguising it, could write some entertaining
stuff, like "The Screwtape Letters".
> (She's already done Tolkein)
All of it? JRR's grocery lists? His "What I did during my holidays"
fourth-grade essay? If JRR was anywhere near a piece of paper with
marks on it during his lifetime, the Tolkien Industry will try and
publish it. Certain Members of the Tolkien Family have made it their
life's work to preserve The Great Man's every literary utterance.
Most of it is dreadful, and the passable stuff needs a good editor's
heavy hand.
> I thought about Anthony,
> but the thought of recommending to read his trash caused me to gag.
Believe it or not, some of his stuff is borderline readable. He just
doesn't know when to stop, and *all* of his recent (the last fifteen
years or so) stuff is turgid crap.
My recommendations? Diane Duane and Diana Wynne Jones write good books
for kids, and they don't aim low just because they're kids. Terry
Pratchett's kids books aren't simple, and they sometimes deal with tough
subjects, like death, responsibility, prejudice etc. but a good parent and
a smart question-asking kid will get on fine with them.
--
*** SPAM BLOCKED ADDRESS *** To reply, remove the string "_nospam_" from
the address above. If you don't, mail will bounce and I'll never see it.
This is done to prevent spammers from junk-emailing me.
Robert (nojay) Sneddon
W. Blair Haworth Jr.
In article <5k5iii$hbg$1...@Mercury.mcs.net>,
Deirdre Sholto-Douglas <fi...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>Doesn't matter *what* you start her off with. Give her one
>Heinlein juvenile and she'll probably read the lot. Lauren
>started with _Red Planet_.
Tough young'un. That was the second one I started, at nine, and the last
one I finished, about twenty years later.
--Blair
Charles R. Tenney
In article <862338...@ibfs.demon_nospam_.co.uk>,
Robert Sneddon (SEE .SIG TO RE <no...@ibfs.demon_nospam_.co.uk> wrote:
>
>In article <jim-280497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>
> j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam "heck" writes:
>
>> (She's already done Tolkein)
>
> All of it? JRR's grocery lists? His "What I did during my holidays"
>fourth-grade essay? If JRR was anywhere near a piece of paper with
>marks on it during his lifetime, the Tolkien Industry will try and
>publish it. Certain Members of the Tolkien Family have made it their
>life's work to preserve The Great Man's every literary utterance.
>Most of it is dreadful, and the passable stuff needs a good editor's
>heavy hand.
Daniel Grotta's (unauthorized) biography of JRR makes the point that the
_Silmarillion_ shouldn't be read as modern fiction, but rather as a modern
imitation of Anglo-Saxon sagas, at which it is far more successful.
(Still boring if you don't like Anglo-Saxon sagas, though.) He also uses
the academic-needlestick of "ethically tenuous" to describe the Tolkien
family's retention of any and all material useful to a biogropher--musta
sucked to be Grotta, I guess. CJR Tolkien was better prepared than any
other human to finish his dad's work, but it still lacks the wit and
liveliness that made LOTR sell so well. (That, and the "Hero Myth" archetype
that makes LOTR the best modern point of comparison for _Star Wars_.)
To return to the thread, though, my laundry list of classic SF writers
would have to include Arthur C. Clarke, and in a prominent place, too.
Some of his social rhetoric is a bit dated, but the scope of his
imagination is still difficult to match. And, IIRC, he invented the
geosynchronous communications satellite because it fit a storyline.
--
--
Charles R. Tenney ten...@med.unc.edu | What would the UNC school of
| Medicine want with my opinions?
"My karma ran over my dogma." | What would I want with theirs?
Doug Quarnstrom
heck (j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam) wrote:
: ?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
: for a kid her daughters age.
Just about anything that won the Hugo Award is decent.
Hyperion is excellent.
If she does not mind devoting her life to one series, have
her read Jordan's Wheel of Time. It has many weaknesses,
but it's strengths are not inconsiderable, and it has
many very prominent women characters.
doug
Brian Trosko
James Lloyd Hill <j-h...@ehsn27.cen.uiuc.edu> wrote:
: Christ, I hated that damn book. Such a cool idea so horribly developed.
What in particular did you find horrible?
My only problem with it is the final descent into cheese with the "Love is
the secret of the Universe" finale.
Bod
In article <jim-280497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>, heck <jim@comms
2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> writes
>?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
>for a kid her daughters age.
Alan Garner's stuff: wonderfully mythic. T H White. Ursula LeGuin's
"Earthsea".
I think I was ten when I discovered the Stainless Steel Rat and thought
it was the dog's bollocks, but I'm not sure it would be to her taste
yet. That was also pre-Star Wars, so kid's perceptions of cool SF may
have changed.
--
Bod (b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
"There can be no freedom without power for the free ("Sarajevo", by
And that means more than shopping, actually" Attila the Stockbroker)
Tony Quirke
David Wren-Hardin <bd...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> heck <j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> wrote:
> >?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
> >for a kid her daughters age.
Note: heck's post never reached here so I don't know how old the sprog
is.
> Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising Series, the first book is _Over
> Sea Under Stone_.
1, Over Sea, Under Stone
2, The Dark is Rising,
3, Greenwitch,
4, The Grey King,
5, Silver on the Tree.
> Whatever series has _The Black Cauldron_ and _Taran Wanderer_ in it
> by Lloyd Alexander.
Chronicles of Prydain series:
1, The book of three,
2, The Black Cauldron,
3, The Castle of Llyr,
4, Taran Wanderer,
5, The High King.
The Truthful Harp is set in Prydain as well.
> I'd recommend Pern too, although the main series may be alittle adult for
> her, or rather, her mother. The Harper Hall books would be fine though
> I'd think.
I also recommend Ursula Le Guin's _A Wizard of Earthsea_ series, and
perhaps some of the Asimov. Or you could go whole hog and try her out on
the classics such as Burrough's Barsoom...
- Tony Q> (Perhaps not the Gor books, though).
--
"A healthy society should be a community of persons: the members of
the society are responsible and autonomous individual persons, but feel
committed in solidarity to the whole of society, respect and serve the
common good ("commonwealth") and are connected [to each other]" - L Lukacs
Doug Quarnstrom
James Lloyd Hill (j-h...@ehsn27.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In article <5k8kq3$b...@fcnews.fc.hp.com> d...@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
: >
: Save her from the agony of waiting for Jordan to finish. Kep her occupied
: with Other things until the last volume of WoT is out.
Good suggestion, particularly since there is no clear indication that he ever
WILL finish it.
doug
Doug Quarnstrom
Brian Trosko (btr...@primenet.com) wrote:
I rarely encounter a book that does not disappoint with the ending.
doug
Charles R. Tenney
In article <jim-300497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>,
heck <j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> wrote:
>
>In other words, I don't know that she's ready for Clarke, and I'd rather
>not scare her away
Clarke's highly variable in the commentary category, but no need to push
things. I found him quite mind-expanding from 10-13; her MMV. I've gotta
agree with the suggestions for Lloyd Alexander and LeGuin's _Earthsea_.
Good fantasy, with lotsa concepts useful to the adolescent trying to
understand adolescence.
Also, Steinbeck did a pretty good translation of, IIRC, _Morte D'Arthur_.
Quite a different slant from T.H. White's, but Steinbeck states that when
he was a sprog, he was perfectly capable of dealing with an unexpurgated
version. (_The Sword in the Stone_ was great, just different from the
original.)
[the original Frankenstein]
>because I wouldn't have understood Mary Shelley's social commentary, and
>would probably hate the book today)
When she _is_ ready for scathing, uncloaked social commentary mixed with
belly-laughs, there's always _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_.
Save that for when she begins to tire of swords-n-sorcery, and can stand
to see the genre viciously lampooned, as only Twain could do.
Angus McIntyre
In article <E9Eon...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
bd...@midway.uchicago.edu (David Wren-Hardin) wrote:
>In article <jim-280497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>,
>heck <j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam> wrote:
>>
>>?Peeve: She was asking me what fantasy/sci-fi books would be good
>>for a kid her daughters age.
>
>Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising Series, the first book is _Over Sea Under Stone_.
Emphatically yes. From memory, the sequence is:
Over sea under stone
The Dark is rising
Greenwitch
The grey king
Silver on the tree
I found the last one a slight disappointment, but the others are excellent.
>Whatever series has _The Black Cauldron_ and _Taran Wanderer_ in it
>by Lloyd Alexander.
The Prydain series. I think there were eventually six books in all, but
I can't remember the titles. The first three, as usual, were better than
the ones that came later.
Someone else mentioned Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" which is
also good. She had another book out called, if I remember correctly,
"The Young Unicorns", which is aimed at a slightly older audience and
is rather darker.
No one yet seems to have proposed Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea"
series ("A Wizard of Earthsea", "The Tombs of Atuan", "The Farthest
Shore", plus one other which I haven't read and whose title I forget).
Much better written and more interesting than McCaffrey's "Pern" books (*)
(in my far from humble opinion) and more suitable for an, uh, younger
audience.
The only Heinlein book I ever really enjoyed was "Citizen of the
Galaxy", which is also aimed at younger readers.
If you can find them, Geoffrey Dickinson's "Changes" series ("The
Weathermaker", "Heartsease", "The Devil's Children") are also excellent.
On the other hand, John Christopher's "Tripods" series ("The City of
Gold and Lead", plus two others whose titles I forget) scared the crap
out of me at a tender age, while his "Prince in Waiting" series ("The
Sword of the Spirits", "The Burning Lands", and ... I think ... "The
Prince in Waiting") I found nihilistic, sinister and depressing.
Personally, I always liked the "Narnia" books, and found C.S. Lewis's
brand of Christianity relatively subtle and thoughtful. I didn't find
them particularly cloying, and in any case it's more than compensated
for by the richness of imagery.
Angus "And just wait until she grows up
and can read 'Gormenghast'" McIntyre
(*) Peeve: I'm going to be treading on somebody's toes here but
frankly "Pern" gives me hives. I have vague recollections of having
once read some early books in the cycle and thinking they were
moderately innovative and inventive, but I recently - finding myself in
someone's guest bedroom - wound up reading a later example. I can't
remember which one - probably "Dragon's Codpiece" or "Proctologist of
Pern" or something - but it seemed to be everything about modern fantasy
writing that I loathe - the endless reworking of the same basic
elements, the mundane machinations of characters who seem more suited to
office politics than heroic fantasy, the stupid names, the tiresomely
content-free New Age moral and spiritual framework, the simple fact of
being book nine of the series with no end in sight.
These books are designed to appeal to a certain kind of mentality, to
the kind of fans who having read one book and liked it want MORE and
will happily keep buying volume after volume irrespective of whether it
has any literary merit or actually offers anything new. The great joy of
all the really *good* fantasy books was that they were going somewhere.
There was a conclusion to be reached, a quest to be fulfilled and
everything was directed towards that. But modern fantasy is dominated by
the soap opera mentality - you don't care what happens or indeed if
anything happens at all just so long as you can switch on the TV at the
same time every day and be sure that all your favourite characters (or
stage furniture) will be there. And the authors and publishers, sensing
a market, are more than happy to supply book after book of this drivel.
Half of the problem with modern fantasy writing is authors who just
don't know when to stop.
The other half, of course, is authors who don't know that they shouldn't
even start and there are more than enough of those around. There's quite
a strong overlap, as well, but I can't actually name names because I
basically gave up on the whole market about a decade and a half ago. I
have only to read the words "Book <blank> of the <blank> series" on the
cover to know that something isn't going to be worth reading and since
most of the stuff on the bookstore shelves seems to fall into this
category, I'm happily spared having to read any of it.
!Peeve: The person I was staying with also had a complete collection of
John Buchan, so I abandoned "Ninja Chiropodist of Pern" unfinished and
started working my way through Buchan. He may be dated, he may be a
post-Victorian white male oppressor who wouldn't be allowed to gather a
minute's dust on any politically-correct bookshelf, but the worst of his
writing (being a complete collection, this included some deservedly
little-known lesser works) nonetheless knocked McCaffrey so far into a
cocked hat that she's probably still spitting lint.
?Peeve: Anyone with a Java-capable browser and a lot of patience can
now get all the fantasy plot-lines they need at:
<URL: http://pobox.com/~angus/Computing/Programming/
Java/Samples/Groan/LordsOfBane.html>
A poor thing but mine own, as they say.
--
an...@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~angus
"You screamed, 'Give us liberty or give us death!' "War"
Now you've got both - what do you want next?" New Model Army
Tim Mefford
In article <AF8F7FE6...@193.105.194.21>,
Angus McIntyre <an...@pobox.com> wrote:
>No one yet seems to have proposed Ursula Le Guin's "Earthsea"
>series ("A Wizard of Earthsea", "The Tombs of Atuan", "The Farthest
>Shore", plus one other which I haven't read and whose title I forget).
Yeah, sign me up for the list recommending that one as well. I couldn'
t
have been much older than 11 or so when I read her "Lathe of Heaven" and
that certainly did something for me at the time.
I stumbled across a web site close to our friends at Dook which, despite
some annoying commentary and an odd resentment of the military, deserves
at least some small credit for doing some research saving archiving at
http://www.duke.edu/~adamc/index.html.
ObPeeve: I accidently caught an interview with JonBidet's parents last
night. Christ, even that trashy ignoramus who drowned her two kids
in her car a year or so back had the sense to make a tear-filled plea
that the public do something about her penny-novel cover story at the
time of the crime, rather than four months later. O.J.'s Bronco-drama
lasted only a day before his lawyers had him writing a book to taint
public opinion. What sort of shysters have these upper-crust cherry-
splitting scum retained? I wouldn't mind except that it's probably
grounds for a retrial.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Latin for the Lazy--Lesson thirty four:
"Cavett Preemptor" --"Beware! That Dick is interrupting again."
_________Tim_Mefford_______...@teleport.com___
Bod
In article <5kafoe$6...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, Doug Quarnstrom
<d...@fc.hp.com> writes
>I rarely encounter a book that does not disappoint with the ending.
Try Georges Perec's "W or the Mystery of Childhood" or "Life A User's
Manual". A master of the last-line sucker-punch, our Georges.
--
Bod
b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
"Who is this Dean Stark guy? A few of you seem to have gotten his
panties in a bunch. Is he retarded? What can I do to get him to leave
me a good quotable sig?" --Dave Pallone
J.R. Dean
In article <jim-300497...@heck.mac.calstate.edu>,
j...@comms2.calstate.edu.hates.spam (heck) wrote:
>Actually, I thought of Clarke (and Phillip Dick too, who I regard as
>one of the true greats) - but I also thought of the fact that my niece
>is just starting in this genre, and she's more into fantasy at this point.
As much as I love PKD's work I'd certainly keep young
children away from his work until they are not so,
um, "impressionable." I suspect that the unwise
application of PKD could cause irrepparable psychic
harm...
I was reading Clarke in elementary school, so it
all depends upon the child. I didn't delve into
PKD until high school, and, as I recall, had been
primed for oddness by reading some twisted tales
by Disch, Ellison, and Ballard.
-- D.
-------------
j...@enclave.org -- URL = <http://www.enclave.org/jrd/>
"The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California -- +1 408 336-0610
=+! Public Access Usenet BBS for Writers & Other Fiends !+=
J.R. Dean
>Another series that's fun, and something mother's wouldn't
>freak over her sweet young thing reading is Robert Aspirin's
>"Myth" series.
>
Am I the only person who finds those books loathesome?
Tony Quirke
Larry Colen <l...@netcom.com> wrote:
> Another series that's fun, and something mother's wouldn't
> freak over her sweet young thing reading is Robert Aspirin's
> "Myth" series.
Too many low-cut blouses on the covers, methinks.
Mmm. "Watership Down" ?
- Tony Q.
Harrison Page
In article <5kii1m$j...@news.scruz.net> j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) writes:
>I was reading Clarke in elementary school [...]
Hey, brag about your BIG HORSEDICK and your HOURLY BILLING RATE
some more, Stark! Maybe you should share the story about
YOUR AMAZING TYPING SKILLS again.
Pink Boy
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) writes:
>>Another series that's fun, and something mother's wouldn't
>>freak over her sweet young thing reading is Robert Aspirin's
>>"Myth" series.
>>
>Am I the only person who finds those books loathesome?
Yes
Mr Foo
J.R. Dean
little more than lispy puns?
You're vehwee qwazy.
Pink Boy
j...@enclave.org (J.R. Dean) writes:
>Right. So you like books that have titles that are
>little more than lispy nuns?
Why do you care what I read? Personaly I think that you are
a humorless bastard who is wound up so tight that you would
explode if you ever tried to laugh.
Mr Foo
J.R. Dean
In article <5kl55d$ln0$1...@news.spies.com>, harr...@goonsquad.spies.com (Harrison Page) wrote:
>In article <lrcE9o...@netcom.com> l...@netcom.com (Larry Colen) writes:
>>Harrison Page (harr...@goonsquad.spies.com) wrote:
>>
>>: Hey, brag about your BIG HORSEDICK and your HOURLY BILLING RATE
>>: some more, Stark! Maybe you should share the story about
>>: YOUR AMAZING TYPING SKILLS again.
>>
>>have nothing to do with your time than poke at Dean?
>
>Hi Larry!
>
> ..Harrison
Yes, Larry... he has no life, and no balls.
Rather like Julian -- how can we get these two together
for a date?
o r c e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s
In article <lrcE9M...@netcom.com>, Larry Colen <l...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Another series that's fun, and something mother's wouldn't
>freak over her sweet young thing reading is Robert Aspirin's
>"Myth" series.
Why not just plunk the little monsters down in front of the television
set and be done with it?
____
david parsons \bi/ The little monsters in my household will read Jane
\/ Austin and like it.
J.R. Dean
It also appears that you can't tell humor from
a tumor, either.
"Lispy puns"? C'mon, it was a joke. Very cute,
btw, changing "puns" to "nuns" in your followup.
Not too original, but cute.
-- Dean
Ayse Sercan
o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s (david parsons) wrote:
> david parsons \bi/ The little monsters in my household will read Jane
> \/ Austin and like it.
What, you're going to forbid them the pleasures of Jane Austen, but force
them to read a nasty imitation?
--
ay...@netcom.com
"Just because you're spinning, that does not mean
you've lost control of the car." -- Larry Colen
Julian Macassey
In article <5kimi9$i...@asgard.actrix.gen.nz> qui...@atlantis.actrix.gen.nz (Tony Quirke) writes:
>
> Mmm. "Watership Down" ?
You've read the book. You've seen the movie. Now eat the cast.
--
Julian Macassey, N6ARE jul...@bongo.tele.com Voice: 415.647.2217
Brian Trosko
Angus McIntyre <an...@pobox.com> wrote:
: Personally, I always liked the "Narnia" books, and found C.S. Lewis's
: brand of Christianity relatively subtle and thoughtful. I didn't find
: them particularly cloying, and in any case it's more than compensated
: for by the richness of imagery.
I entirely forgot about those, which really bugs me. I finished them in
the fourth grade, so I should probably go back and reread them.
: Angus "And just wait until she grows up
: and can read 'Gormenghast'" McIntyre
Just warn her to stay away from Perelandria, or whatever that was called.
: Half of the problem with modern fantasy writing is authors who just
: don't know when to stop.
See: Piers Anthony. The first few Xanth books were good. The first three
Apprentice Adept books were good. The first two Incarnations books were
good. Everything else was shite.
Now that I think about it, I also heartily recommend the first two
trilogies in the Dragonlance marketing ploy. Started reading those as
soon as they came out (5th grade, I think) and fell in love with the
characters.
Pink Boy
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) writes:
>You obviously don't know me at all.
Of course not. But it isn't like I've haven't tried.
I can't remember how many times that I and other people
have offered in good faith to meet you face to face
over drinks. I have even offered to buy you dinner.
>It also appears that you can't tell humor from
>a tumor, either.
That you make stupid puns is proof that you are humorless.
>"Lispy puns"? C'mon, it was a joke. Very cute,
>btw, changing "nuns" to "puns" in your followup.
>Not too original, but cute.
I'm bored, what more can I say.
Mr Foo
Charles R. Tenney
In article <5kr1sp$lbk$1...@nnrp01.primenet.com>,
Brian Trosko <btr...@primenet.com> wrote:
>: Half of the problem with modern fantasy writing is authors who just
>: don't know when to stop.
!Peeve: Poul Andersen's translation/update of "Hrolf Kraki's Saga." It
ain't modern (I think it was Hrolf's uncle who was named "Beowulf," the
story is, basically, the Danish "King Arthur") and there was no possibility
of a sequel 'cause there was only so much to start with. Andersen even
poured the story from the mouth of a woman--a good storyteller, but not a
professional minstrel--to account for the fact that he wrote it as prose,
not as an epic poem.
Charles R. Tenney
In article <1997May7.0...@bongo.tele.com>,
Julian Macassey <jul...@bongo.tele.com> wrote:
>In article <5kimi9$i...@asgard.actrix.gen.nz> qui...@atlantis.actrix.gen.nz (Tony Quirke) writes:
>>
>> Mmm. "Watership Down" ?
>
> You've read the book. You've seen the movie. Now eat the cast.
Although such a suggestion is actually part of the plot, this wording is
technically incorrect. "Cast" refers, not to rabbit-raisins, but rather
to the analogous product of worms.
Charles R. Tenney
>What, you're going to forbid them the pleasures of Jane Austen, but force
>them to read a nasty imitation?
Mark Twain once noted, on viewing someone's book collection, that it had
not a single title by Jane Austen, and pronounced it a good start.
Larry Colen
E M Richards (boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: I find most science fiction loathesome.
Yeah, well that's Clarke's law for you.
: We have Robert Heinlein's fantasies of buggering 12 year old
: female clones of himself, Arthur C. Clarke boring the reader
No, he wants to bugger 12 year old clones of Lazarus Long.
: into a coma with glacially paced bad science, Piers Anthony
Rather than Clarke, for good hard science (accessible to younguns)
I reccomend Hal Clement or Dr. Robert L. Forward. Very interesting
hypothesis of life in very different environments, and decent stories
as well.
Also James White's "Sector General" books.
: pandering to SCA and science fiction con people with collections
: of bad puns contributed by his fans ("Look, he quoted me!" -
For puns, the *early* Callahans books by Robinson.
: you want to write about racism, is an allegory about elves with
: pointy ears making friends with dwarves with hair beards going to be
: as poignant as "The Diary of Anne Frank"?
Perhaps not, but it'll be more accessible. Besides that was Dwarves
and Trolls that Pratchett wrote about in "men at arms".
Also note that Elves and Dwarves are *fantasy* not Science Fiction.
Theoretically, science fiction stories are theoretically possible
given what we know about science. These days that has been relegated
to the subgenre of "hard science fiction". I suspect that I'm
falling for a troll, but this is all too close to one of my rant
buttons.
I've been noticing that there is less and less good Sci Fi being
written these days. I go into the bookstore and it's all nonsense
about mutants with super powers, or time travel or fantasy. It seems
that the only people writing science fiction even loosely based in
science these days are the folks writing "war porn": David Drake,
David Weber et. al.
I'm late for work, I'll be quiet now.
: --
: boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu
: "That's all a comet is: a dirty snowball. They are no more portents of
: doom than are the snowballs that my sons and I throw at each other..."
: -A. Hale (of Hale-Bopp)
--
Larry Colen l...@netcom.COM pager: 408-697-8377 (OYSTERS)
Charles R. Tenney
In article <lrcE9v...@netcom.com>, Larry Colen <l...@netcom.com> wrote:
>that the only people writing science fiction even loosely based in
>science these days are the folks writing "war porn": David Drake,
I actually met Drake once in downtown Chapel Hill, helping someone beg for
money for some cause which interested him. He was wearing a waist-length
cape, and shoulder-length hair. I keep meaning to read one of his books
sometime. I've never met (Orson) Scott Card, though he's another local.
Doug Quarnstrom
E M Richards (boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: Mine too! The notion of Sci Fi as anything but swill for a rainy
: day just sends me off on a tear.
Since technology has such a big effect on the lives of people now, why
is technology and proposed future changes in technology inherently
an invalid topic for examination by Lit-tra-chure?
doug
James Lloyd Hill
In article <lrcE9v...@netcom.com> l...@netcom.com (Larry Colen) writes:
>
>I've been noticing that there is less and less good Sci Fi being
>written these days. I go into the bookstore and it's all nonsense
>about mutants with super powers, or time travel or fantasy. It seems
>science these days are the folks writing "war porn": David Drake,
That's a no-shitter, Bro. Colen. I like fantasy writing as much as
the next guy (as long as the next guy like fantasy writing), but it
categorically isn't science fiction and shouldn't be counted as such
in inventory. Faeries and Unicorns and Magycke Bunnies are all well
and good but they aren't Terraforming or generation ships or even
the bleak cyberdystopias of Gibson.
I suspect that some of it has to do with the world in which we live.
Science fiction has always had the element of the fantastic and wildly
futuristic, but at a time when you can do just about whatever you want
online, read about honest-to-Gott cloning, and then sit back and see
today's pictures of the edge of the universe from Hubble, it becomes
difficult to get the average reader worked up about the spiritual successor
to Starman Jones.
Throw in the fact that crime is soaring, morality and decency (however you
define _those_ terms) are declining, industrialization and expansion are
befouling many of our most beautiful places, and it's really no surprise
that a lot of readers would rather read about knights rescuing princesses
from dragons while talking to stags.
It doesn't help that many readers today are barely capable of holding
their lips still while they read and the "sly" wordplay of a goof like
Piers Anthony probably comes across like fuckin' Chaucer.
Jim, reading a lot of reg'lar fiction of late
--
j-h...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu http://www.swcp.com/~jimhill/
"There's a lot of flag-burners who have got too much freedom
And I want to make it legal for policemen...to beat'em."
E M Richards
In article <5kii24$j...@news.scruz.net>,
J.R. Dean <j...@spam.blows_see.sig> wrote:
>
>>Another series that's fun, and something mother's wouldn't
>>freak over her sweet young thing reading is Robert Aspirin's
>>"Myth" series.
>>
I find most science fiction loathesome.
We have Robert Heinlein's fantasies of buggering 12 year old
female clones of himself, Arthur C. Clarke boring the reader
into a coma with glacially paced bad science, Piers Anthony
pandering to SCA and science fiction con people with collections
of bad puns contributed by his fans ("Look, he quoted me!" -
rather the same thing that keeps "WIRED" on the newsstand),
Anne McCaffrey (P.U.!), and so on.
I think science fiction writers make up shit because they cannot
describe what they really see and because they are too chickenshit
to take the heat for dealing with big issues head-on. I mean, if
you want to write about racism, is an allegory about elves with
pointy ears making friends with dwarves with hair beards going to be
as poignant as "The Diary of Anne Frank"?
Doug Quarnstrom
James Lloyd Hill (j-h...@ehsn26.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Throw in the fact that crime is soaring,
Crime is NOT soaring by any statistic I have seen.
ALl reports I have seen say it is down significantly
except for violent crime by teenagers.
doug
J.R. Dean
>Of course not. But it isn't like I've haven't tried.
>I can't remember how many times that I and other people
>have offered in good faith to meet you face to face
>over drinks. I have even offered to buy you dinner.
I don't recall you offering, Matt, but that's not
too surprising. You were probably lost in the din
of insincere offers from dweebs I want nothing to
do with. With the crank calls that have been
placed from your house by your fellow peevers
during Foo festivities, you're on my borderline
"get-a-clue" list. Incidentally, if anyone tried
calling me from your home this past weekend I'm
sure they got a very nifty surprise.
Once again, my requirements are: No Kim, no Julian,
no Vinnie, no bullshit. Keerist, is there anyone in
peeves who does not know the drill? (I'm free to
refuse any and all offers, of course, if I have
prior commitments or feel I'm being "set up." You
don't want to piss me off by setting up a Kim scam,
etc.)
I promise not to hit Larry, but he'll have to sit
in the corner by himself... as usual.
-- Dean
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
My contribution to DSM-V: Julian Macassey, raving lunatic and
gun-toting net psychopath, whining and ranting about people who
have no life and nothing to do. (Three crank phone messages
left by J. Macassey one evening in Jan. 1997, sampled here and
edited for length and diskspace, and for the faint of heart.
Total, original length of combined messages was nearly 10 minutes.
Warning: This RealAudio file is not suitable for children, though
Macassey often behaves like a child....)
Excerpt running time: 1:47.8
-------------
j...@enclave.org -- URL = <http://www.enclave.org/jrd/goons/nutboy.ra>
Charles R. Tenney
In article <5krto7$i9b$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
E M Richards <boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>Arthur C. Clarke boring the reader into a coma with glacially
>paced bad science
Huh?! I won't defend Clarke's pacing, but his science, by the standards
of the copyright date, was always excellent. Armchair quarterbacking
aside, he helped redefine a new and higher standard for the genre.
>I think science fiction writers make up shit because they cannot
>describe what they really see and because they are too chickenshit
>to take the heat for dealing with big issues head-on. I mean, if
>you want to write about racism
Anne Frank's diary is impossible to beat, but Clarke did a damn good
job in the 60's with a two-pager about the return to Earth of humankind's
long-lost brothers in their flying saucers. They said "be not afraid,"
noted with sympathy the disfiguring, uglifying, hereditary disease
that had sprung up in response to the Times of Frozen, and said,
"If any of you are still white, we can cure you."
James Lloyd Hill
In article <5ktp46$m...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>
d...@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
Perception is everything. If people feel like crime's up, it might as well
_be_ up.
Jim, living in crime-free Los Alamos (unless you count the menacing
bastards what won't wear seatbelts)
Doug Quarnstrom
James Lloyd Hill (j-h...@ehsn27.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In article <5ktp46$m...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>
: d...@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
: >James Lloyd Hill (j-h...@ehsn26.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: Throw in the fact that crime is soaring,
: >
: >Crime is NOT soaring by any statistic I have seen.
: >ALl reports I have seen say it is down significantly
: >except for violent crime by teenagers.
: Perception is everything. If people feel like crime's up, it might as well
: _be_ up.
I agree for the most part, but it is a major peeve to see constant reports
of the consistent decline in crime for the last decade in combination with
constant public whining about rising crime rates.
doug
Ayse Sercan
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
>Once again, my requirements are: No Kim, no Julian,
>no Vinnie, no bullshit.
OK, Dean. How about you have dinner with Mr. Foo, Larry, and myself next
week? You can set the date, to avoid any conflicts. Just the three of
us, and just you. We'll buy you dinner, even.
No Kim, No Julian, No Vinnie. No bullshit. Not on your part or ours.
So, do you have the balls to do it? Meet face-to-face and tell your side
of the story?
Bod
In article <5ksrto$4b8$1...@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu>, "Charles R. Tenney"
<ten...@med.unc.edu> writes
>Mark Twain once noted, on viewing someone's book collection, that it had
>not a single title by Jane Austen, and pronounced it a good start.
"First and foremost let Jane Austen be named the greatest artist that
has ever written." -- G H Lewes
"She should have stuck to painting." -- Bod.
--
Bod (b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
"I see no point in reading." (Louis XIV)
Bod
>Now that I think about it, I also heartily recommend the first two
>trilogies in the Dragonlance marketing ploy. Started reading those as
>soon as they came out (5th grade, I think) and fell in love with the
>characters.
God. Jesus. No. For fuck's sake, no, no, no. I've read a lot of shit in
my time (I was, for a while, the copy-editor on the "New Adventures of
Doctor Who" novels), but I can say without a single unmitigated shadow
of a doubt that I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever read a pile of shit
so huge, so mouldering and steaming, so slime-encrusted and maggot-
ridden, so bereft of ideas, characterisation, characters, plot,
background, setting, tone, atmosphere, themes, motifs, sense or words
strung together in an even vaguely readable order as the first
Dragonlance book. It is awful. No, it is beyond awful. It is an affront
to literacy, history and humanity. If Gutenberg had been shown a copy of
this book, he would have placed his head in his printing press and
instructed his apprentices to squash it until the brains were running
out of his ears and they heard his skull crack. It should be taken out
and burnt. Everyone associated with its production should be fucked and
burnt. The Nazi pogroms and book-burnings should be reinstated, together
with the Spanish inquisition, purely to erase all traces and records of
this book from our planet's history.
I was once stuck on a train for six hours with nothing to read except a
copy of this book. After sixty pages I decided that spending the
remaining five and a half hours sitting very still and meditating on the
five screaming children in the seat opposite and their appallingly
stupid parents was preferable to having to read one more word of the
drivel before me.
It even has fucking SONGS in it.
The only good thing associated with Dragonlance is Margaret Weis's
daughter, who is a fox.
--
Bod
b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
'I never give them hell. I just tell the truth, and they think it is hell.'
- Harry S. Truman
Larry Colen
E M Richards (boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: >: pointy ears making friends with dwarves with hair beards going to be
: >: as poignant as "The Diary of Anne Frank"?
: >Perhaps not, but it'll be more accessible. Besides that was Dwarves
: >and Trolls that Pratchett wrote about in "men at arms".
: Kinda pathetic that people need to use bad literature (and I use
: the term loosely) to understand what happens on the streets
: every day.
I suppose that the reference to Pratchett was lost on you,
as much as references to Cartland's writing style would be
lost on me. Terry Pratchett (aka Pterry) writes a series of
books set on Discworld. They are nominally fantasy, in much the
same way as "the Hitchikers guide to the galaxy " is nominally
science fiction. He is also much funnier than Adams.
I reccomend the book that he co-wrote with Neil Gaiman, "Good Omens".
When a friend bought it just before going on a road trip, I warned
him to make sure the door was locked lest he laugh so hard that he
fell out of the car. In short it is about the Anti-christ growing up
and the apocolypse.
: Fine, Vulcans and Ferengi, as if bipedal, two-gendered, bilaterally
: symmetrical carbon based life forms that can interbreed are as
: likely as Verne's rocket to the moon.
I admit to being a Star Trek fan since it debuted on my 6th birthday.
Star Trek is many things, but it is not good science fiction.
It was never meant to be science fiction, it was meant to be,
and I quote the great bird of the galaxy "Horatio Hornblower in space".
Another rant of mine is the quality of science fiction in the
visual media. The only decent science fiction I've seen on TV
in the past twenty years was "Max Headroom". A show that I
completely ignored until I tripped over it channel surfing one
day. It actually dealt with science fiction topics like organleggers,
universal registration of everyones identity, and other assaults on
individual liberties and privacy.
: >to the subgenre of "hard science fiction". I suspect that I'm
: >falling for a troll, but this is all too close to one of my rant
: >buttons.
: Mine too! The notion of Sci Fi as anything but swill for a rainy
: day just sends me off on a tear.
The problem is that good Science Fiction is much harder to write
than popular fiction. First of all, it REQUIRES a reasonable
understanding of science as well as the ability to write. It
often seems that people in the liberal arts, which accounts for
a large percentage of writers, take pride in their ignorance of
science. I've even seen people who are well versed in one field
of science, say biology, seem to take pride in their ignorance of
other fields, say physics.
Not only must you understand current science and engineering, you
must be able to extrapolate future scientific developements and the
engineering achievements based on them. Then you have to understand
the social sciences and be able to extrapolate the effect of those
engineering developments upon society.
Good stories are about people and their attempted resolution of
conflict. Good science fiction will take a hypothetical scientific,
or tecnhological advance and analyze it's effect on society and
use that as the basis of the conflict in the story. For example,
and this is not original with me, let us assume that medical advances
make organ donations safe and effective, and as such it is possible
to greatly enhance the lifespans of those who can afford them.
Someone will soon realize that it is a waste of the lives of those
who can benefit to kill prisoners on death row in such a manner that
their organs cannot then be used to the benefit of society. One
extrapolation of this is that as more people benefit from capital
punishment, more crimes become capital offenses, until any infraction
is a capital offense.
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out in real life.
Another aspect of science fiction is that one has to learn how
to read it. There are certain conventions that most science fiction
authors use. Someone who as read a lot of science fiction
will be able to tell, a few pages into the book, a great deal
about the universe in which it is set, and will be able to
concentrate their attention on the characters and the plotline.
Someone unfamiliar with science fiction will wonder why
a message on the ansible is significant, while the seasoned
reader will automatically know that this is an interstellar
culture that has faster than light communication, if not travel,
and will be able to understand more of the nuances behind the
message.
Which brings up another difficulty in writing good science fiction,
how to explain to the reader what something does without every
other paragraph being an "As you know Bob..." expository speech.
There are, however, many advantages to science fiction. First of
all is escapism. Some of us would love to travel between the stars,
or at least escape the gravity well. At the moment, this is not
possible for the average citizen. Science fiction is an opportunity
to fantasize about other planets, other places, cultures that are
not on earth.
Another strength of science fiction it to be able to create and
explore the ramifications of another type of culture. In "The
Dispossessed" LeGuin explored the ramifications of an anarchistic
utopia. Gibson explored the ramifications of 24x7 full sensory
immersion net access. Asimov explored the ramifications of
improving the intelligence of our tools until they achieved
sentience. If your (computer, toaster, vacuum cleaner etc.)
is self aware is making it do your own bidding anything more,
or less, than slavery. An ethical dilemma that we probably won't
have to deal with for several decades.
But, if one in a thousand people are capable of writing a good
story. And one in a thousand people actually have the werewithal
to sit down and write and finish a story. Then only one in a million
people will have the werewithal and the ability to sit down and write
a good story. Now, lets say that one in a hundred people actually
have a reasonable comprehension of science.
Larry Colen
J.R. Dean (j...@spam.blows_see.sig) wrote:
: I promise not to hit Larry, but he'll have to sit
: in the corner by himself... as usual.
Of course you do Dean. You may be delusional, but you aren't
stupid.
Funny thing is, the last time I saw you in person, at the
scruz.sysops meeting, I seem to remember you sitting at
the same table as me, and Jeff, and Don...
J.R. Dean
In article <ayseE9x...@netcom.com>, ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) wrote:
>j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
>>Once again, my requirements are: No Kim, no Julian,
>>no Vinnie, no bullshit.
>
>OK, Dean. How about you have dinner with Mr. Foo, Larry, and myself next
>week? You can set the date, to avoid any conflicts. Just the three of
>us, and just you. We'll buy you dinner, even.
>
>No Kim, No Julian, No Vinnie. No bullshit. Not on your part or ours.
>
>So, do you have the balls to do it? Meet face-to-face and tell your side
>of the story?
>
comes from alt.peeves, so you've already violated
one of my requirements. The second infraction occurred
when you made the "do you have the balls" taunt. No
bullshit, remember?
You're pretty pathetic.
-- Dean
"...I'm going to keep it up, until everybody
on scruz.general hates you." -- Ayse Sercan
-------------
j...@enclave.org -- URL = <http://www.enclave.org/jrd/>
Poison Candy
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (Dean "Forrest Gump" Stark) writes:
>ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) wrote:
>>OK, Dean. How about you have dinner with Mr. Foo, Larry, and myself next
>>week? You can set the date, to avoid any conflicts. Just the three of
>>us, and just you. We'll buy you dinner, even.
>>No Kim, No Julian, No Vinnie. No bullshit. Not on your part or ours.
>>
>You've cross-posted a thread to scruz.general that
>comes from alt.peeves, so you've already violated
>one of my requirements.
Dean, you're very wise not to take her up on this. That is,
the three of them -- even ittoo bitty Ayse -- are just as
eager to commit physical violence on your person as Julian
and Vinnie are. I swear this is the truth.
Peeve: Liars. Why can't everyone be honest, like me?
Lenore Levine
--
"In chess, someone has to take the black pieces." -- Eve Forward
Ayse Sercan
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
>>j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
>>>Once again, my requirements are: No Kim, no Julian,
>>>no Vinnie, no bullshit.
>>
>>week? You can set the date, to avoid any conflicts. Just the three of
>>us, and just you. We'll buy you dinner, even.
>>
>>No Kim, No Julian, No Vinnie. No bullshit. Not on your part or ours.
>You've cross-posted a thread to scruz.general that
>comes from alt.peeves, so you've already violated
>one of my requirements.
I don't see that requirement above. Cross posting is less of a USENET
crime than posting the same article twice, which is what you've been
doing. And the thread is relevant and on-charter for scruz.general.
Why is it that you *really* don't want to show up?
>The second infraction occurred
>when you made the "do you have the balls" taunt. No
>bullshit, remember?
It's not bullshit, Dean. I'm willing to chip in for your dinner if you're
brave enough to show up. And if you show up and ask us to stop this
cross-posting war, we will.
It's so easy. So easy. Are you willing to take the step needed to make
it stop, or do you really not want to let go?
> "...I'm going to keep it up, until everybody
> on scruz.general hates you." -- Ayse Sercan
So, folks of scruz.general, do you want it to stop? Mail your vote to
Dean Stark at j...@enclave.org today.
--
ay...@netcom.com
"If you try to play kissy-face with a turtle, it'll grab on to your lip.
And emergency room staff will have *no* sympathy" --Matt Harper
Brian Trosko
Bod <b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[Bod *really* doesn't like Dragonlance]
I never claimed it was the Great American Novel. But I liked it in 5th
grade, and we are talking about books for young'uns.
Maybe _Battlefied Earth_, instead?
Brian "Grow up to be a good little cultist" Trosko
Doug Quarnstrom
Brian Trosko (btr...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Bod <b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: [Bod *really* doesn't like Dragonlance]
: I never claimed it was the Great American Novel. But I liked it in 5th
: grade, and we are talking about books for young'uns.
: Maybe _Battlefied Earth_, instead?
Hahahahahaha. Hoooohohohoho. Man, Battlefield Earth has got to be THE
stupidist novel ever written. Ok, I overstate the case, but man is it
dumb.
Peeve: L. Ron Hubbard.
Ok, really, the Dragonlance novels are the stupidest ever written. I am
ashamed to confess I even read them.
doug
Lenore Levine
ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) writes:
>j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
>>You've cross-posted a thread to scruz.general that
>>comes from alt.peeves, so you've already violated
>>one of my requirements.
>Why is it that you *really* don't want to show up?
OK, Draino. I have another offer. I realize dinner
with Ayse is out, because she might hit you with her
purse.
So...how about you break bread with Paul Schnellbecher,
Queen Pee of Alt.Tasteless? Of course, there's always
the chance Paul might run you over with his wheelchair.
But what the hey, life is full of risks. Live dangerously,
for once.
And besides, Paul has never crossposted to scruz.general.
Trust me.
Lenore Levine
--
"If I hear one more person say they're going to do a little wordsmithing
on the document, I'm going to have to start doing a little ass-smithing."
-- Tim Mefford
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <5l887c$q...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, lev...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>
> And besides, Paul has never crossposted to scruz.general.
> Trust me.
Even under the name "Felis Concolor"?
--
Do not underestimate your abilities. That is your boss's job.
It is your job to find ways around your boss's roadblocks.
_______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby gl...@mail.cruzio.com http://www2.cruzio.com/~glena/
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <ayseEA3...@netcom.com>, ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) writes:
> j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) wrote:
> >>>Once again, my requirements are: No Kim, no Julian,
> >>>no Vinnie, no bullshit.
> >>
> >>OK, Dean. How about you have dinner with Mr. Foo, Larry, and myself next
> >>week? You can set the date, to avoid any conflicts. Just the three of
> >>us, and just you. We'll buy you dinner, even.
> >>
> >>No Kim, No Julian, No Vinnie. No bullshit. Not on your part or ours.
>
> brave enough to show up. And if you show up and ask us to stop this
> cross-posting war, we will.
>
> It's so easy. So easy. Are you willing to take the step needed to make
> it stop, or do you really not want to let go?
Dean -- *PLEASE* show up. If you want, I'll be there, too. If this is
what it takes, go for it. Worst case, show up, order, and listen. If
it turns out to be crap, just leave. I'll hold the door for you. I'll
watch your car -- whatever it takes.
JCDill
:ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) mentions:
żIt's not bullshit, Dean. I'm willing to chip in for your dinner if you're
żbrave enough to show up. And if you show up and ask us to stop this
żcross-posting war, we will.
Dean, I will join you in this dinner, if you want to have some company. If
this offer (to stop the cross posting war) is genuine, I will do whatever it
takes to get it to happen!
Here are *my* rules.
No more posting peeve fests, by anyone, about anyone, in scruz.general or
other scruz or ba newsgroups. The scruz and ba newsgroups are for discussing
local topics, and none of the peeve wars count as a local topic, they are
personal peeve-fests and flamewars. Deal with them in other newsgroups
(alt.peeves seems quite appropriate...) or in private email if you have to,
just stop infesting the scruz and ba *local* newsgroups.
If everyone coming to this dinner agrees that this will happen, I will meet
any and all of you in person to ensure you that I am a real, breathing, and
fair human being who just wants to see scruz and ba newsgroups used for local
topic discussions, not for peeve-fests and flamewars. This isn't about "not
liking" your topics, it is about your topics not being germane to the
newsgroups in question. It isn't about censorship, it is about
appropriateness.
OK, who takes me up on this? Hey, I will even eat at Adelitas again!
jc
--
My first name has 2 letters, There's only one letter "J".
My last name's a bit longer, It just worked out that way.
I hate spam, and UCE, and all that unwanted mess.
So to reply, you have to edit my return address.
Poison Candy
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (J.R. Dean) writes:
>gl...@bbs.cruzio.com wrote:
>>lev...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) wrote:
>>> And besides, Paul (Schnellbecher) has never crossposted to scruz.general.
>>
>>Even under the name "Felis Concolor"?
>I have no idea who she's talking about, but it's
>entirely possible this person is just another
>pseudonym for her or Robert (aka Bobbi Hatch).
Draino, I warned you about this! If you're going
to have another person play "Bobbi Hatch," could
it pleeeze, pleeeze not be a butt pirate! I have
enough trouble with my hemorrhoids anyway.
Besides, I thought bhatch was Artie Mandible,
Julian Macassey and Geoff Miller. Isn't he enough
people already?
Lenore "Poison Candy" Levine
P.S. Paul Schnellbecher is a real person, a
Bay Area gay man who rides a wheelchair and posts
to alt.tasteless a lot. Are you afraid to have
dinner with him, too?
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <3383d033...@news.concentric.net>, jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) writes:
>
> OK, who takes me up on this? Hey, I will even eat at Adelitas again!
Just watch out for the squiggelies in the cactus. I always thought that
dinner should be inanimate.
Ayse Sercan
jjjj...@ix.netcom.com (JCDill) wrote:
>:ay...@netcom.com (Ayse Sercan) mentions:
>
>żIt's not bullshit, Dean. I'm willing to chip in for your dinner if you're
>żbrave enough to show up. And if you show up and ask us to stop this
>żcross-posting war, we will.
>
>Dean, I will join you in this dinner, if you want to have some company. If
>this offer (to stop the cross posting war) is genuine, I will do whatever it
>takes to get it to happen!
>
>Here are *my* rules.
>
>No more posting peeve fests, by anyone, about anyone, in scruz.general or
>other scruz or ba newsgroups. The scruz and ba newsgroups are for discussing
>local topics, and none of the peeve wars count as a local topic, they are
>personal peeve-fests and flamewars. Deal with them in other newsgroups
>(alt.peeves seems quite appropriate...) or in private email if you have to,
>just stop infesting the scruz and ba *local* newsgroups.
As soon as Dean shows up in alt.peeves again, the deal is off and every
reply *I* make to him is cross-posted to scruz.general. Those are *my*
rules.
>If everyone coming to this dinner agrees that this will happen, I will meet
>any and all of you in person to ensure you that I am a real, breathing, and
>fair human being who just wants to see scruz and ba newsgroups used for local
>topic discussions, not for peeve-fests and flamewars. This isn't about "not
>liking" your topics, it is about your topics not being germane to the
>newsgroups in question. It isn't about censorship, it is about
>appropriateness.
Considering that the thread in discussion *started* in scruz.general and
spread to alt.peeves, and considering that the people in question all live
in the Santa Cruz area, scruz.general seems to be the most appropriate
venue for the thread, especially as it is not a peeve, per se.
Nope. Dean out of alt.peeves is what I'm asking. You can discipline him
in scruz.general on your own.
Not that he's going to show up. He'll find some excuse not to.
Poison Candy
j...@spam.blows_see.sig (The Sage of Boulder Creek) writes:
>conc...@netcom.com (Poison Candy) wrote:
>>Draino, I warned you about this! If you're going
>>to have another person play "Bobbi Hatch," could
>>it pleeeze, pleeeze not be a butt pirate! I have
>>enough trouble with my hemorrhoids anyway.
>Robert Christ is your SO. Can't you keep it
>straight when he assumes multiple identities
>for harassing people?
You mean like "Paul Schnellbecher"? Heh. Oh, Draino,
you forgot to mention that he's Elvis, too.
Lenore "Poison Candy" Levine
ObTasty: This week, I've been getting a ride to
work in the morning, instead of taking the bus.
So far, each journey has been pretty disgusting.
Monday: Passed a dead Bambi by the side of Page
Mill Road. Lovely little thing, with a ribbon
of red blood still dripping out of its mouth.
Tuesday: The radio. Some stupid station was having
a masturbation contest between "Joe" and "Hollywood."
To excite them, a girl was making orgasm noises
as fake as Brandy Alexander's. Yeesh! She wheezed
just like an asthma patient. As she "moaned,"
Hollywood got off very quickly.
Joe, on the other hand, was having trouble reaching
climax -- probably because he was laughing too hard.
Finally, the deejay got in the act and started talking
about licking Joe's microphone. At this, Joe pretended
to get off, a little more successfully than the woman...
...and we arrived at work. Ick.
ECMathews
Bod wrote:
>God. Jesus. No. For fuck's sake, no, no, no. I've read a lot of shit in
>my time (I was, for a while, the copy-editor on the "New Adventures of
>Doctor Who" novels), but I can say without a single unmitigated shadow
>of a doubt that I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever read a pile of shit
>so huge, so mouldering and steaming, so slime-encrusted and maggot-
>ridden, so bereft of ideas, characterisation, characters, plot,
>Snip, (you get the idea)<
Bod,
You must learn to *open up* a bit. Tell us how you *rilly* feel.....
E.C.
--" Everyone associated with its production should be fucked and
burnt. The Nazi pogroms and book-burnings should be reinstated, together
with the Spanish inquisition, purely to erase all traces and records of
this book from our planet's history." --- b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
Claudia HCQ Sorsby
A device which is exploding. <f...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> ObIWishICouldRecallTheReference: Somewhere I read that perception of crime
> is linked closely with how much television a person watches. I've checked
> this informally by quizzing neighbours and so far it's not far off the mark,
> but I'm beat if I can recall where to find the article.
Try "The Man Who Counts the Killings," Scott Stossel, *The Atlantic
Monthly,* May 1997, pp. 84-104. It's an article about George Gerbner, a
researcher on TV and violence, and it covers this very point.
"First, the sheer quantity of violence on television encourages the idea
that aggressive behavior is normal....This leads to what Gerbner calls
'Mean World Syndrome.' Because television depicts the world as worse
than it is (at least for white suburbanites), we become fearful and
anxious -- and more willing to depend on authorities, strong measures,
gated communities, and other proto-police-state accouterments." (p.91)
"The more violence one sees on television, the more one feels threatened
by violence. Studies have shown direct correlations between the quantity
of television watched and general fearfulness about the world: heavy
viewers believe the world to be much more dangerous than do light
viewers. Thus heavy viewers tend to favor more law-and-order measures:
capital punishment, three-strikes prison sentencing, the building of new
prisons, and so forth." (pp. 91-92)
ObDisclaimer1: I should add that Stossel also states clearly that many
people in the field disagree with Gerbner. Moreover, he suggests that
Gerbner's personal background of having grown up in Hungary during the
1930s might have something to do with the strength of his fears about
the "fascist" power of TV. All in all, an interesting piece.
ObDisclaimer2: Of course, anyone who's seriously interested should
probably check the appropriate academic journals for the original
research.
Claudia
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <concolorE...@netcom.com>, conc...@netcom.com (Poison Candy) writes:
> gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
>
> >Ayse -- will you marry me?
>
> I thought you wanted me to marry you? I'm shocked, Glen, shocked.
>
> Peeve: People like Glen, who Celebrate Diversity.
Didn't I mention that I converted to Mormonism? Or was is something else?
I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
Besides -- you never offered the opportunity for me to frisk you.
Nosy
<In article <EAA1J...@cruzio.com> gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
< In article <concolorE...@netcom.com>, conc...@netcom.com (Poison Candy) writes:
< > gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
< >
< > >Ayse -- will you marry me?
< >
< > I thought you wanted me to marry you? I'm shocked, Glen, shocked.
< >
< > Peeve: People like Glen, who Celebrate Diversity.
< Didn't I mention that I converted to Mormonism? Or was is something else?
< I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
Freely?
Huh, and all this time I've been hearing how expensive it can be...
Lenore Levine
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
>Didn't I mention that I converted to Mormonism? Or was is something else?
>I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
I think you better make this offer to Ms. Millen, who wants
a commitment. There are other women here who might just want
to use your body.
I wouldn't want you to be deceived by them.
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <ATAYLOR.97...@gauss.nmsu.edu>, ata...@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
> <In article <EAA1J...@cruzio.com> gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
> < In article <concolorE...@netcom.com>, conc...@netcom.com (Poison Candy) writes:
> < > gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
> < >
> < > >Ayse -- will you marry me?
> < >
> < > I thought you wanted me to marry you? I'm shocked, Glen, shocked.
> < >
> < > Peeve: People like Glen, who Celebrate Diversity.
>
> < I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
>
>
> Huh, and all this time I've been hearing how expensive it can be...
Nah -- it's still pretty close to free to marry. It's the divorces that
will cost. That's why it makes sense to simply have multiple marriages.
See -- know the rules. Work with them and everything comes out fine.
Paul Gensheimer
In <EABv7...@cruzio.com> gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
>My body is roughly equivelant to an animated fence post with flappin'
>butt cheeks.
You mean in general appearance or in wit and intelligence?
Either way, why am I not surprised by this?
>I live to be decived.
Yes, you have already demonstrated that quite thoroughly
in your earlier sojourns into Der Peevenland. Again, why
am I not surprised by this?
Hint: Cluelessness is not something to brag about 'round
these parts.
>Reality is so .... predictable.
Might I interest you in purchasing a bridge in Brooklyn?
My Conclusion: Go 'way until you've collected a few more
clues to keep the one above some company.
paulg
-----
"I will not, however, serve as your punching bag and serve as your
only excuse for posting to scruz.general." -J.R. Dean, Peevetown's
official whack-a-mole, gets tough and stands up for himself
Articulate Mandible
In article <3372ca33...@news.ukonline.co.uk> steve....@ukonline.co.uk writes:
>Hmmm... good SF/fantasy for kids.
>
>I don't think it's possible to recommend Diana Wynne Jones too strongly. My
>daughter's also unreasonably keen on Lois Bujold and Terry Pratchett. I
>think she'd also recommend Fritz Leiber and maybe the first couple of
>Tamorra Pierce's 'Alanna' books (first thre okay-ish, after that, Tara says
>they seem to have been written to a deadline) or Brian Jacques 'Redwall'
>series. As for Trek or DnD partworks -- Just Say No.
I read a lot, and I mean a *lot*, of Keith Laumer when in early
adolescence. I particularly enjoyed the Retief stories, but the Bolo
stuff was a hoot, as was the Lafayette O' Leary material. I did
a bunch of Leiber and Piper, and enjoyed Van Voght's Slan and Weapon-
shops stories. Back then I had subscriptions to Analog, Worlds of
If, and The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction; I thereby discovered
Alexei Panshin and Roger Zelazny, and damned near busted a gut whenever
a Fegoot appeared. Didn't hurt me one bit, nosirree.
--
Rt. Rev. Artie the Hinged Jaw "Stop Casting Porosity"
"i am short but i am dangerus" binky.
James Wallis
In article <8640125...@dejanews.com>, mik...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>In article <5KgdpUAo...@hogshead.demon.co.uk>, James Wallis,
>Director of Hogshead Publishing, Ltd. under the phony pen name of Bod
><b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > [pile of obscene garbage by this british nazi publisher deleted]
> >
> > The Nazi pogroms and book-burnings should be reinstated, together
> >
> > --
> > Bod
> > b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
>
>This is another example of this nazi revisionist publisher advocating
>pogroms and genocide by nazis. Wallis, you are a stinking pile of nazi
>manure. You and Adolph Hitler deserve each other.
alt.peeves, meet Michael Hajovsky. Michael Hajovsky, meet alt.peeves
--
Bod (b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
'Yes, a "very sad, strange little man" made his promise to cut you up,
and he keeps his promises! I know who you are! I know what you are! I
know where you are! Judgment has been passed. Muerto. I know what you
will be! You subhuman harassing piece of garbage.'
(Michael Hajovsky goes off the deep end, 16 May 1997)
o r c e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s
In article <8640125...@dejanews.com>, <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <5KgdpUAo...@hogshead.demon.co.uk>, James Wallis,
>Director of Hogshead Publishing, Ltd. under the phony pen name of Bod
><b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > [pile of obscene garbage by this british nazi publisher deleted]
> >
> > The Nazi pogroms and book-burnings should be reinstated, together
> > with the Spanish inquisition....
> >
> > --
> > Bod
> > b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
>
from dejanews; it's easy to go back and look up the original article] ...
Speaking of revisionism, I think you'd better go back to your day
job. Remember, if you're trying to cleverly twist someones words
to your own ends, it's better if you don't do it in a place where
people have easy access to the original comments.
And I thought being a socialist brought the kooks out from the
woodwork; In my next life, I wanna be a publisher.
____
david parsons \bi/ o...@pell.chi.il.us
\/
Dave Stone
Oh my God: something about which to be pipsqueakingly pedantic, of which
something I actually know.
Bod wrote earlier ('cause I missed the previous to the immediately
previous):
>
> >God. Jesus. No. For fuck's sake, no, no, no. I've read a lot of shit in
> >my time (I was, for a while, the copy-editor on the "New Adventures of
> >Doctor Who" novels), but I can say without a single unmitigated shadow
> >of a doubt that I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever read a pile of shit
> >so huge, so mouldering and steaming, so slime-encrusted and maggot-
> >ridden, so bereft of ideas, characterisation, characters, plot ...
It is in fact "The Doctor Who New Adventures." A tiny point, but it's
attention to little copy-editorial details like that which stops us from
having things like "a woman with vulpine eyes ranges a landscape of
broken glass and sobbing" in the final bloody product.
Actually, of course, it's now just the "New Adventures." (The lovely Bod
should be counted fortunate for getting out well before, so far as
mouldering, steaming piles of asinine and popularist-pandering
encrustment such as one has never dreamed are concerned, believe you
me.)
Personal !Peeve: Two sets of suckers buying where there once was one.
Peeve: Only for the next year.
CompleteAndUtterPeeveForAbsolutelyEverybodyElse: I'm still doing two of
the twelve.
--
Take care. Have Fun. Is lovely pair of "special" trousers.
Charlie Stross
Dave Stone<da...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk> wrote (in article <1997052001...@sgloomi.demon.co.uk>):
>
>It is in fact "The Doctor Who New Adventures." A tiny point, but it's
>attention to little copy-editorial details like that which stops us from
>having things like "a woman with vulpine eyes ranges a landscape of
>broken glass and sobbing" in the final bloody product.
Dave: have you considered a career in technical writing?
I think Microsoft could benefit especially from your unique approach.
-- Charlie
Angus McIntyre
In article <xruPBTAh$Kgz...@hogshead.demon.co.uk>,
James Wallis <Ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8640125...@dejanews.com>, mik...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
[ mike.h's wildly 'creative' editing of James's message snipped ... ]
> >This is another example of this nazi revisionist publisher advocating
> >pogroms and genocide by nazis. Wallis, you are a stinking pile of nazi
> >manure. You and Adolph Hitler deserve each other.
>
> alt.peeves, meet Michael Hajovsky. Michael Hajovsky, meet alt.peeves
The pleasure is *all* his. Is this one going to stay around as well, or
does his institution only allow limited Internet access to in-patients?
Angus "Once a year would be too often" McIntyre
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
E M Richards
In article <1997051516...@accs-as06-dp09.nwrk.grid.net>,
Claudia HCQ Sorsby <ch...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"First, the sheer quantity of violence on television encourages the idea
>that aggressive behavior is normal....This leads to what Gerbner calls
>'Mean World Syndrome.' Because television depicts the world as worse
>than it is (at least for white suburbanites), we become fearful and
>anxious
[etc]
I picked up the paper this morning.
Some 22 year old got gunned down in a tot lot one block from my
house.
I don't need TV to scare me. My own neighborhood is plenty bad enough.
ER
--
boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu
You've read the book. You've seen the movie. Now eat the cast.
-Julian Macassey, describing "Watership Down"
Dave Stone
Charlie Stross <cha...@antipope.org> wrote:
> Dave: have you considered a career in technical writing?
>
> I think Microsoft could benefit especially from your unique approach.
I did, in fact, apply to do the manual for the Mac implementation of
Office'97.
Just to show I was a team-player, I got as far as writing the rough
notes for the application letter on the back of an old envelope, went
"fuck it, that'll do", stuck it in another envelope without a stamp, or
an address, and couldn't be arsed to post it at all in the end.
Julian Macassey
In article <5lsksk$c...@agate.berkeley.edu> boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu (E M Richards) writes:
>In article <1997051516...@accs-as06-dp09.nwrk.grid.net>,
>Claudia HCQ Sorsby <ch...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>>"First, the sheer quantity of violence on television encourages the idea
>>that aggressive behavior is normal....This leads to what Gerbner calls
>>'Mean World Syndrome.' Because television depicts the world as worse
>>than it is (at least for white suburbanites), we become fearful and
>>anxious
>
>
>house.
>
>I don't need TV to scare me. My own neighborhood is plenty bad enough.
When I was in Peshawar, Pakistan - An outlaw border town that
has been an outlaw border town since the days of Alexander the Great.
I got into discussions with the locals about how unsafe Peshawar was.
Seems that you are safer in rough, tough, gun toting Peshawar
than you are in South Central Los Angeles (Watts).
There are fewer beggers in Peshawar, even though there are
more men who could grow shaggy hair and beards and claim to be "Vets".
--
Julian Macassey, N6ARE jul...@bongo.tele.com Voice: 415.647.2217
jay...@ktb.net
> Director of Hogshead Publishing, Ltd. under the phony pen name of Bod
> <b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > [pile of obscene garbage by this british nazi publisher deleted]
> >
> > The Nazi pogroms and book-burnings should be reinstated, together
> > with the Spanish inquisition....
> >
> > --
> > Bod
> > b...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
Mike Hajovsky is a kook.
You see them on Usenet from time to time. They live to create chaos and
hatred. Anybody who wants to look into his past need only use DejaNews to
see his past accomplsihments.
His favorite tactic is to pick somebody to hate and them follow them from
newsgroup to newsgroup posting annoying, insulting, libelous, or just
plain sickening things about this person. He changed targets every two to
three months.
If his posts offend you you should try sending mail to
ab...@ix.netcom.com. Generally this hasn't helped in the past but perhaps
their mailbox has to reach 1,000,000,000 messages on a person before they
throw them out. By my estimation we should only be a couple of hundred
short at this point...
If he continues this behavior in this newsgroup I would be happy to
provide his address and phone number so that you could express your
displeasure with him directly.
- Jay Adan
>
> This is another example of this nazi revisionist publisher advocating
> pogroms and genocide by nazis. Wallis, you are a stinking pile of nazi
> manure. You and Adolph Hitler deserve each other.
>
E M Richards
In article <5lja30$n...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Lenore Levine <lev...@nihal.math.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
>
>>Didn't I mention that I converted to Mormonism? Or was is something else?
>>I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
>
>a commitment. There are other women here who might just want
>to use your body.
I, myself, was thinking of taking up ballooning and could use
the ballast.
I hope Glen likes terminal velocity over Albuquerque.
ER
Paul Gensheimer
In <5lsksk$c...@agate.berkeley.edu> boo...@remarque.berkeley.edu
(E M Richards) writes:
>In article <1997051516...@accs-as06-dp09.nwrk.grid.net>,
>Claudia HCQ Sorsby <ch...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>>[Crime: it's mostly in your mind.]
>I picked up the paper this morning.
>Some 22 year old got gunned down in a tot lot one block from my
>house.
>I don't need TV to scare me. My own neighborhood is plenty bad enough.
Yes, indeed. It is no illusion that the streets of our fair
USofA don't feel safe. Over roughly the last 10 years or so
I have been the victim of crime several times and a witness
to crime several more times. All of these crimes happened in
the USofA. While all of these crimes happened within city
limits, none of them happened in what I would call high crime
urban environments. By contrast, here in Der Peevenland they
don't seem to have much problem with crime at all, and I have
seen several instances where an enterprising thief could
make out quite handsomely (e.g. bicycles and other property
left out on the street late at night essentially unlocked and
unattended).
?Peeve: I anticipate that in the next few months I will be
returning to the USofA. While there are many peeveworthy
elements of this country which I am just itching to get away
from, I will really miss the security of being able to walk
down a dark street late at night without having to constantly
look over my shoulder to see who or what is behind me.
Robert Sneddon (SEE .SIG TO RE
In article <1997May20.1...@bongo.tele.com>
jul...@bongo.tele.com "Julian Macassey" writes:
> When I was in Peshawar, Pakistan - An outlaw border town that
> has been an outlaw border town since the days of Alexander the Great.
> I got into discussions with the locals about how unsafe Peshawar was.
Does it still have those great little hardware stores? Are they still
making fine copies of Other People's Designs?
> There are fewer beggers in Peshawar, even though there are
> more men who could grow shaggy hair and beards and claim to be "Vets".
It's the local goats. Some people just can't resist temptation.
--
*** SPAM BLOCKED ADDRESS *** To reply, remove the string "_nospam_" from
the address above. If you don't, mail will bounce and I'll never see it.
This is done to prevent spammers from junk-emailing me.
Robert (nojay) Sneddon
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <5ltscb$8lp$1...@was.hooked.net>, boo...@well.com (E M Richards) writes:
> In article <5lja30$n...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> Lenore Levine <lev...@nihal.math.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >gl...@bbs.cruzio.com writes:
> >
> >>Didn't I mention that I converted to Mormonism? Or was is something else?
> >>I forget -- doesn't matter -- anything that allows me to marry freely.
> >
> >I think you better make this offer to Ms. Millen, who wants
> >a commitment. There are other women here who might just want
> >to use your body.
>
> I, myself, was thinking of taking up ballooning and could use
> the ballast.
Ya know -- had this opportunity come up a couple of months ago, ya coulda
used Kathy's body. She always wanted to go up in a balloon. She always
wanted to skydive, too. She woulda been *real* compliant about the whole
thing -- and quiet, too.
> I hope Glen likes terminal velocity over Albuquerque.
Well, there's an inherent problem with this -- I don't like heigths. This
is a *real* problem considering that I am 6'-5" and need Dramamine just to
stand up straight.
I would, however, be happy to offer for your consideration, about a half
dozen Santa Cruz politicians for this service -- assuming that you can
guarantee enough altitude that the *impact* would be terminal. There's
nothing worse than a pissed off politician with a headache.
AS RUSSELL
mik...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: This is another example of this nazi revisionist publisher advocating
: pogroms and genocide by nazis. Wallis, you are a stinking pile of nazi
: manure. You and Adolph Hitler deserve each other.
I find this somewhat puzzling, given what Bod's admitted to publishing in
the past. Is "Warhammer" really a cunningly encrypted version of "Mein
Kampf"? Has "Bizarre" magazine been cunningly hiding holocaust denials
in its pages, with the intent of exerting mindcontrol on innocent
(allright, not so innocent) seekers of the strange and sick like myself?
Somehow I doubt it. Michael Hajinsky, I hereby award you the dubious
honour of being loonier than Jim "it's the Jews, I tell you!" Bowery. Now
fuck off and take those pills like the nice men in white coats told you to.
--
Winterwolf x11...@bradford.ac.uk
Joy Haftel
In article <ayseEA...@netcom.com>, Ayse Sercan <ay...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Peeve: Housemates who don't read labels and bring home DIET JUICE. Why
>the fuck does *juice* need to be *diet*?
The only reason I can see is medical. My mother-in-law is diabetic, and
she can't drink most juices because they have too much sugar.
Peeve: The only thing she *will* drink is caffeine-free diet coke. She
keeps a cooler in the car fully stocked with little cans, and brings her
cans into restaurants, people's houses, etc. She won't drink water. I
guess water with a little caramel coloring, phosphoric acid, and
aspartame is so much better.
Tim Mefford
In article <1997May22.1...@bongo.tele.com>,
Julian Macassey <jul...@bongo.tele.com> wrote:
> Look where you live. If you were in the Midwest, things would
>be normal.
Isn't that a tautology? Isn't normal, particularly uniform, rote
living that defines the nation's standard normal, defined by
life in the midwest?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tim Mefford | "vidi, veni"
t...@teleport.com | -Julius Caesar on Cleopatra
________________________________________________________________
Roger Lee
In article <5m5287$s...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Lenore Levine <lev...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>jul...@bongo.tele.com (Julian Macassey) writes:
>> Look where you live. If you were in the Midwest, things would
>>be normal.
>
>Gentlemen, haven't you read _The Screwtape Letters_? I'm
>surprised you haven't figured it out. You see, most of the
>local yuppettes are C.S. Lewis scholars. Being familiar with
>his work, they know that red meats and highly spiced foods
>promote unchastity. Since this is a sin against God, they
>wish to avoid it at all costs. (As well they should, of course.)
Well, that certainly explains my folks' cooking...
>Hope I've cleared things up.
That you have, Lenore. Whaddo I owe ya?
--
"Physics and law enforcement -- if it weren't for those I'd be unstoppable."
-- Dan Sorenson
Lenore Levine
jul...@bongo.tele.com (Julian Macassey) writes:
>In article <dasfooEA...@netcom.com> das...@netcom.com (Pink Boy) writes:
>>
>>Peeve: Diet everything. Now days it often takes a fair amount
>>of looking to find the standard, non-diet, normal-sodium
>>version of a product on the supermarket.
> Look where you live. If you were in the Midwest, things would
>be normal.
Gentlemen, haven't you read _The Screwtape Letters_? I'm
surprised you haven't figured it out. You see, most of the
local yuppettes are C.S. Lewis scholars. Being familiar with
his work, they know that red meats and highly spiced foods
promote unchastity. Since this is a sin against God, they
wish to avoid it at all costs. (As well they should, of course.)
Hope I've cleared things up.
Lenore Levine
--
"It's OK to have sex with...your dog, but not be in touch with
your 'wolf spirit'." -- j_w...@nym.alias.ne, on New Age bestiality
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
Tim Mefford said:
>Isn't that a tautology? Isn't normal, particularly uniform, rote
>living that defines the nation's standard normal, defined by
>life in the midwest?
I dunno - in Minne-hopeless/St. Foul, where I was last week,
they are advacing towards an entirely indoor lifestyle, a la
Logan's Run for their population.
Exhibit A: The Skyway. It's a second floor (In English, first
floor) construction that spreads all over the downtown business
and shopping district. You can park in an enclosed garage, walk
into the skyway, walk to any building in the district in air-conditioned
or heated comfort and back again. You could conceivably leave
your home in the burbs via the garage (automatic opener) and drive
to downtown, park, go to work, eat, shop, be entertained, get back in
the car, drive to the mall of America, park in a building again,
go ride a freaking ROLLER COASTER inside the mall, get in the car
and go home and never once have sunlight touch your body without
going through glass first. Never once feel an honest prairie
breeze.
Exhibit B: The Mall of America. 4 of five floors of all the shops
you find in malls worldwide. Fundamentally no different from
the mall near here in Tigard, but bigger, so you can spend all
your free time indoors. There's an amusement park, movies, restaurants,
an aquarium attraction where you walk under the the aquarium, or through
a tube in the aquarium. All indoors.
And there was a shuttle bus from my hotel, which is literally
Right Next Door to the mall. Heavens - it was a good 300 yards
to the mall doors! (Yeah, I know that in January, you'll die
if you try to walk that far outside up there, but shit, maybe
that oughta offer up a small clue that the place isn't fit
for human habitation.)
Exhibit C: The Metrodome. Nuff said.
I don't know if this is a peeve or not. It's one of those
things that kinda defies the normal peeve-!peeve continuum.
JZ
Poison Candy
r...@netcom.com (Roger Lee) writes (in reference to some
of my bullshit):
>That you have, Lenore. Whaddo I owe ya?
Fly some of the midwestern peevers out here for a party.
Lenore Levine
--
"In chess, someone has to take the black pieces." -- Eve Forward
Roger Lee
>>That you have, Lenore. Whaddo I owe ya?
>
>Fly some of the midwestern peevers out here for a party.
OK, just as long as they promise not to cook on my plane...
--
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today
is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and
walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is
what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
---Brennan Manning
gl...@bbs.cruzio.com
In article <5m5287$s...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, lev...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>
> Gentlemen, haven't you read _The Screwtape Letters_? I'm
> surprised you haven't figured it out. You see, most of the
> local yuppettes are C.S. Lewis scholars. Being familiar with
> his work, they know that red meats and highly spiced foods
> promote unchastity. Since this is a sin against God, they
> wish to avoid it at all costs. (As well they should, of course.)
So, are you coming over this weekend for of my creole steaks?
Peggy Currid
Charles R. Tenney <ten...@med.unc.edu> wrote:
>Tim Mefford <t...@linda.teleport.com> wrote:
>
>>Isn't that a tautology? Isn't normal, particularly uniform, rote
>>living that defines the nation's standard normal, defined by
>>life in the midwest?
>
I'm fairly close to Normal.
Peggy
Glen Quarnstrom
vik...@probe.net (Natural Born Cereal Killer) wrote:
>cur...@staff.uiuc.edu (Peggy Currid) writes:
>
>>>Well, Normal is, after all, in Illinois.
>
>>I'm fairly close to Normal.
>
> That doesn't really mean much, all things considered.
>I'm only about 3 hours from Moscow on an uncrowded freeway.
Moscow's about a 6 hour drive from here, on a goat trail that's
notoriously slow, but incredibly scenic.
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
Alan Gore
>Moscow's about a 6 hour drive from here, on a goat trail that's
>notoriously slow, but incredibly scenic.
That's nothing. If you take the freeway 6 hours due west from Phoenix,
you reach Hell.
ag...@primenet.com | "Giving money and power to the government
Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys
Software For PC's | to teenaged boys" - P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.primenet.com/~agore