Breathing as an underrated experience
Charlie Stross
the UK. In part it's fostered by damp, cold weather, and in part it's
a cycle of regular mutation. The influenza virus, unlike the leopard,
changes its coat with extreme rapidity; so getting the bug once doesn't
mean you're necessarily going to be immune to it next time it sweeps the
country.
It's been a while -- years, I think -- since I've had a genuine
influenza infection. It is not a joyful experience. This one has now
receded far enough to allow me to lie on the sofa in my study and type
slowly: it's taken about 50 hours. Meanwhile, ibuprofen is my friend;
my nasal sinuses think they're the outflow from a hydroelectric power
station: I have acquired a deep, intimate understanding of the existential
state of a baby seal (after, not before, clubbing). I am tempted to
say that I feel like shit, but I'm not a great believer in the english
tradition of understatement and I don't want to have to recallibrate my
"feel like" detector to cope with my current state; mere hangovers with
projectile vomiting would thereafter register as "feel like a fluffy
bunny", which seems somehow wrong. So let's just say I feel Very Very
Ill, and that this is an improvement over how I felt yesterday.
(Okay, so I'm not as ill as Deirdre has been. But that's, well, in a
league of its own.)
I'd vaguely noticed news items over the past week, warning of an imminent
'flu epidemic. I hadn't paid much attention to them; there's always one
around now. I should have paid more attention; when MPs start asking
questions about NHS funding it usually means hospital administrators
have begun howling, which in turn means that beds are filling up, which
probably means that half-recovered people are walking around coughing
and spewing viral capsids everywhere. Around Wednesday came one particularly
interesting item; a couple of hospitals in the south-east had begun using
refrigerator trucks as temporary mortuaries.
So far, so good: if this was 1918 all over again, they'd be digging mass
graves and banning public gatherings by now. Let's keep a sense of
proportion.
Anyway. Thursday night, Feorag and I went to the Southsider, as is our
sometime habit, to quaff beer with various suspicious persons. I noticed
she had a sore throat and was coughing a little. I noticed that I had
a slightly sore throat and was coughing a little. So what? It's just
a cold, probably. We headed for home a bit earlier than usual, and I
suppose I got a bit less sleep than usual due to the coughing.
I woke up feeling hung-over -- a most improbable state of affairs,
considering that I'd only drunk three pints over an entire evening. Feorag
was coughing badly and shivering a little, evidently in the full grip
of a rather bad cold. "That's funny," I thought vaguely, and staggered
out the door in the direction of the office.
I think I realised that going in to work had been a Mistake ten minutes
after I arrived, when it occured to me that propping my head up over
my keyboard for ten minutes and groaning was not the usual way of
logging into the servers I ride herd on. And the office was strangely
empty. "Where's Kas?" I called. Dave, my boss, shrugged: "Kas isn't
coming in today. He's ill." Same for two other people -- out of an
office of ten. This information finally percollated through my thick
skull:
* we work in an open plan office
* a third of the company is off work, sick, with influenza
* I feel like shit
* ergo ...
I somehow managed to muster up the energy to write down my immediate
drop-everything this-is-important no-shit-sherlock to-do list, email it
to the nearest available henchperson and cc it to Dave, then stagger in
the direction of the office door. That was around ten thirty.
Going home was a bit of a blur; persistent hangover sensations mated to
a nasty cold turn a twenty minute walk into something you'd rather not
remember. I arrived home to find Feorag holed up, generally miserable
and virus ridden, and felt better at once: misery loves company, after all.
Then, at two o'clock, my personal infection decided to put the pedal to
the metal, test out the turbocharger, and generally give me a quick
refresher course in why influenza is no joke.
I began to shiver. I felt incredibly cold, and sweaty. Some imp of
perdition was excavating a drift mine behind my forehead, using a rusty
chisel. Some other imp had drawn the work assignment of pouring sand
into all my joints. Meanwhile, the dreaded IQ vampire was at work.
I'd been reading the user manual for an interesting typesetting system
when this started. I was reduced, in rapid succession, to an Ian Watson
novel, which was rapidly abandoned in favour of something rather lighter
by Terry Pratchett. Then reading turned out to be too much. I slunk into
the bedroom, somehow shivered my way to throwing a second duvet on the
bed, crawled underneath, and waited for my teeth to stop chattering.
Around eight o'clock I woke up and figured out that I was no longer
feverish. I don't know why I thought I wasn't feverish any more; the
only explanation I can come up with was that I was feverish. (These things
have a logic all of their own.) So I crawled into the living room, and have
a vague recollection of watching something brainless on the boob tube with
Feorag, who was also feeling like shit, before going back to bed.
You know you've got the flu badly when breathing hurts so much that
you stop doing it whenever you fall asleep; you keep drifting off,
stop breathing (because someone has filled your lungs with ground
glass), then wake up hyperventilating. (What wakes you up is the pain.)
This went on for most of the night, but began easing up just as the sky
was beginning to lighten. With 20/20 hindsight, this was probably "phone
the medic" time -- but I don't think either of us was thinking straight
just then. I finally dozed off for a couple of hours around dawn, woke up
with the drift mine under my scalp vigorously blasting away. Shivering?
Check. Fever? Check. Headache? Check. Everything aches? Check. It was the
full nine yards; dame influenza in all her unwelcome glory.
I'm not going to say much about yesterday, except that it was extremely
boring and painful and the fever broke around eight at night -- more than
a day after it started. It broke, but that didn't mean I felt better;
just that I wasn't hallucinating and shivering. I was woozy as hell, for
one thing, and somewhere along the line I think all my muscles had a good
spasm. I certainly wasn't lucid enough to read usenet, or anything for
that matter: which for me is a general defining characteristic of being,
like, really unwell. Oh, and I'd coughed up most of the ground glass;
coughing merely hurt, rather than making me think I was about to eject
my lungs.
I actually got some sleep last night. Never mind getting up every two
hours to re-fill the water glass by the bed (did I mention the raging
thirst? or the night sweats?), I could at least breathe. This is a most
underrated faculty, and I'm somewhat appalled by how much I used to take
it for granted. In fact, now that it doesn't hurt any more I'm going
to do my best to ensure that I keep breathing as regularly as possible.
Meanwhile, Feorag and I are shambling around Chateau Antipope like a pair
of septuagenarians, getting on with the serious business of getting better.
Today I checked the teletext news. Seems they've declared an official
epidemic; more than 300 cases per 100,000 population have been notified,
and some estimates are that the real level is double or triple that
-- lots of people (like myself) simply aren't going to their GP's,
but are staying home and toughing it out. It's officially the worst
flu epidemic since 1989, but I strongly suspect it's a lot worse than
that -- the worst in my living memory, anyway. And now for a more sober
observation. Influenza itself is unpleasant in the extreme, but rarely
life-threatening. The real killer is the secondary infections that travel
in its wake; someone who is weakened by influenza is very susceptible
to bacterial lung infections, that give rise to pneumonia. The big flu
epidemic of 1918/19 killed twice as many people as the first world war:
almost all of them of secondary complications -- no antibiotics in those
days. I'm keeping one ear open for odd noises from my chest, or Feorag's,
or a resumption of that ground-glass sensation when I cough -- because
I've discovered, in the past two days, that I rather enjoy breathing.
-- Charlie
Feorag NicBhride
<cha...@pc.antipope.org> wrote:
>remember. I arrived home to find Feorag holed up, generally miserable
>and virus ridden, and felt better at once:
Now I think it's time for Charlie to find out what a baby seal feels like
immediately prior to clubbing.
>Meanwhile, Feorag and I are shambling around Chateau Antipope like a pair
>of septuagenarians, getting on with the serious business of getting better.
To be honest, I think I've coped with it a lot better than Charlie but
I've been applying a totally different treatment plan. He's dosed himself
up with ibuprofen and psedoephedrine; I've always thought that winter bugs
are the one thing that traditional remedies are really good at. So I've
been making much use of the good old toddy - take a mug, bung in a skoosh
of lemon juice, a really generous measure of medicinal whisky (Grouse,
Bells or other cheap blend - there's no point using the decent stuff), a
lump of honey and top it up with boiling water.
This concoction, in various forms, has been used to treat colds and flu
here for generations. Not only does it actually help ease the symptoms
but, for some mysterious reason, you end up a lot less bothered about
being ill.
The only problem I have now is that my chest is still a bit unhappy and I
feel a little feeble. I've let them brew without me today.
Hmm. A bottle of Bramble Stout. *That* should help...
bb
Feorag
--
feorag at nospam.antipope.org "Bung some barley-sugar in hot water, spice
it up with a close relative of cannabis, and
*** allow it to go mouldy. Drink the result."
Alan Gore
>Every year, around December/January, a wave of influenza sweeps through
>the UK. In part it's fostered by damp, cold weather, and in part it's
>a cycle of regular mutation. The influenza virus, unlike the leopard,
>changes its coat with extreme rapidity; so getting the bug once doesn't
>mean you're necessarily going to be immune to it next time it sweeps the
>country.
Actually, today's influenzas are worldwide phenomena. The "Y2K bug" is
exacting the same sort of decimation around here, where it's warm and
sunny. The strain we are getting was in this year's flu shot, but so
many people slack on getting the shot that it's spreading fast anyway.
ag...@uswest.net | "Giving money and power to the government
Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys
Software For PC's | to teenaged boys" - P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.alangore.com
Joy Haftel
Charlie Stross <charlie @ nospam . antipope . org> wrote:
>Today I checked the teletext news. Seems they've declared an official
>epidemic; more than 300 cases per 100,000 population have been notified,
>and some estimates are that the real level is double or triple that
>-- lots of people (like myself) simply aren't going to their GP's,
>but are staying home and toughing it out. It's officially the worst
>flu epidemic since 1989, but I strongly suspect it's a lot worse than
>that -- the worst in my living memory, anyway. And now for a more sober
>observation. Influenza itself is unpleasant in the extreme, but rarely
>life-threatening. The real killer is the secondary infections that travel
>in its wake; someone who is weakened by influenza is very susceptible
>to bacterial lung infections, that give rise to pneumonia. The big flu
>epidemic of 1918/19 killed twice as many people as the first world war:
>almost all of them of secondary complications -- no antibiotics in those
>days. I'm keeping one ear open for odd noises from my chest, or Feorag's,
>or a resumption of that ground-glass sensation when I cough -- because
>I've discovered, in the past two days, that I rather enjoy breathing.
Actually, the evidence from 1918 suggests it was worse than that--about
half the deaths were from secondary infections, but many of them were from
pneumonia caused directly by the influenza itself--the victims died way
too quickly for it to be a secondary infection. If you want a good scare,
especially while ill or recovering, read this book: _Flu_ by Gina
Kolata--it's an in-depth history of the 1918 flu in the US, and follow up
on the scientific studies about the virus (dead virus has been recovered
from an Army pathology warehouse and an Alaskan victim).
Anecdotal reports from hereabouts suggest that the hospitals are
overflowing with flu patients to the point that elective surgeries and
non-critical patients are being postponed or sent elsewhere, which I don't
remember hearing about in previous epidemics. Supposedly this year's flu
is a good match for last year's flu and the vaccine. Last year's flu
wasn't as bad, I think--husband had it, he was back on his feet in 4 days.
The !Peeve is that I took advantage of the employer-provided free flu shot
for the 1st time in my life this fall. I just thought it'd be useful. If
it does protect me, I am not gloating but grateful--I had a bad flu in the
mid-80s and I remember that through-a-haze-of-fever "I *could* move my
arm/turn over/read/eat/drink/go to the bathroom but it'd be too much
effort *cough* *hack*" feeling.
Hope all are better soon.
--
Joy "A thing of beauty is a joy forever."
jkh...@netcom.com --Keats
Deirdre Sholto-Douglas
: Actually, the evidence from 1918 suggests it was worse than that--about
: half the deaths were from secondary infections, but many of them were from
: pneumonia caused directly by the influenza itself--the victims died way
: too quickly for it to be a secondary infection. If you want a good scare,
What's even more frightening (an odd) about the 1918 critter was the
age of the primary victims. While most epidemics weed out the very
old and the very young, the people that died in 1918 were generally
those in their reproductive years...roughly 20-50. In short, it was
viralent enough to kill what is generally the healthiest range of
any given population.
!Peeve: I've never had influenza.
ObShudder: After reading Charlie's description I've decided I'd
rather be hit in the head than get it.
Yours, hoping everyone is feeling normal soon,
Deirdre
--
| Deirdre Sholto-Douglas | e-mail: fi...@mcs.com |
| | |
******* The only acceptable substitute for intelligence *******
is silence.
The Late Mel Torme
>
>!Peeve: I've never had influenza.
I've had it once, last February. The first day my alarm went off, I got
up feeling as wonky as I usually do for a night-owl living in a day
world, got in the shower, and soon enough thought "I better sit down right
now because I'm about to fall down." So I half-sat, half-collapsed to
the tub and sat there in the "rain" until the water ran cold, at which
time I figured I should try to muster up the strength to go back to bed.
I dragged myself upright, lurched from the bathroom to my bedroom, also
known as "the adjacent room", and concluded that falling on the bed was
preferable to toweling off (since I noticed during the lurching that I'd
not done that in the bathroom), and did so, to wake up panting and
freezing my now-dry ass off. Crawled under the blankets and immediately
started sweating. I alternated between freezing and frying for the next
48 hours. What was especially odd was the several-hour interval where
being too hot could be offset by getting under the blankets and
shivering could be stopped by kicking all coverings off.
The next day was more of the same, only now I had a nice pleghmy cough
with rib-cracking power. Thoughts of Captain Trips ran through my head.
Standing up was an accomplishment that I was so proud of that I
celebrated it by collapsing back onto the bed and returning to sleep.
Given that I had started at LANL on 11 January, these two days exhausted
my sick leave, so the third day I actually tottered in the shower long
enough to get soap onto and then off of most of the bod. Sat on the
toilet after until I felt strong enough to stand and towel off. Went
back to my bedroom and sat on the bed for a bit. Got dressed. Sat on
the bed again. Clearly unwell, I did the only thing left to me as an
American Citizen: I grabbed my car keys and hit the open road.
Thanks be to whatever foresighted individual put a bench next to the
mailbox at the Back Gate, because walking from the parking lot to there
exhausted my meager store of energy. A nice sit later, I went on in to
work. The guard who was badge-checking told me I looked awful. Once I
got into my office building, the people who knew me said such cheerful
things as "Jesus, Jim, you look like shit." One guy, much like myself,
came in and said the most sensible thing I've ever heard (and something
I've said myself a time or two): "Get the hell out of here before you
infect everybody, you sick bastard."
I grabbed my coat, locked my safe, and shambled back home, stopping
again for a time to admire the fine view of Mercury and Pajarito Roads
from that bench. Slept most of that day, but the body thermostat had
finally regained control and it was a restful sleep.
Day four the cough was gone but I was still weak as the proverbial
kitten. Stayed home that day as well, but finally had enough spring in
my step to go in on Friday...gahh.
You can keep your influenza virus; I'm not impressed.
Jim
--
"If this movie was playing on Salma Hayek's back while I rode her
like a mechanical bull, I still wouldn't see it." -- Adam Carolla
Bob O`Brien
Charlie Stross <charlie @ nospam . antipope . org> wrote:
>almost all of them of secondary complications -- no antibiotics in those
>days. I'm keeping one ear open for odd noises from my chest, or Feorag's,
>or a resumption of that ground-glass sensation when I cough -- because
>I've discovered, in the past two days, that I rather enjoy breathing.
Suggest you "keep BOTH ears open" for whatever.
In the event you find you can't do so, take it as conclusive evidence.
I've had major and minor sinus trouble all my life. When the
"stuffyness" gets to an ear, I seek professional assistance,
antibiotics and the like.
Peeve: fluid trapped and sloshing around in the ear for *days*
Bob O`Bob
--
+ email replies without this line will be discarded 7ai0edfb (expires 24jan00) +
No spammer could ever be too broke or too hungry.
Peggy Currid
: !Peeve: I've never had influenza.
I had it once -- when I was 12 years old. Never had it since. Given the
mutability of the virus, I can't believe that I have an immunity to it, so
why is it that I, and many other people, avoid catching it?
Peggy
Paul F Austin
"Peggy Currid" <cur...@staff2.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:85b243$115$3...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
I last had the 'flu in about 1980. As well as feeling like shit on toast
(ably described by Jim elsewhere), I was stoned as a goat, delirious as
could be. The prospect of 'flu scares me to the point of putting me at
the very front of the line in October when they start passing out dead
virii.
Since the main 'flu reservoir is migratory birds in the Asian flyway, I
need to sponsor some Chinese duck hunters.
--
Conscience, that quiet voice that says "Someone may be watching"
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
John S. Novak, III
>[DSD writes:]
>: !Peeve: I've never had influenza.
>I had it once -- when I was 12 years old. Never had it since. Given the
>mutability of the virus, I can't believe that I have an immunity to it, so
>why is it that I, and many other people, avoid catching it?
Sme of us, in addition to being mean and nasty, have mean and nasty
immune systems. I haven't even so much as had a sniffle this season,
despite such incredibly brilliant acts as standing out on Navy Pier
last year for well over an hour in the cold and wind.
I don't think I've been seriously sick since I had salmonella some
twelve years ago, and the rest of my body kicked the living shit out
of the immune system for dereliction of duty.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
The Humblest Man on the Net
Ayse Sercan
>I had it once -- when I was 12 years old. Never had it since. Given the
>mutability of the virus, I can't believe that I have an immunity to it, so
>why is it that I, and many other people, avoid catching it?
It may be that you have an inborn immunity. But here's what my doctor
told me to avoid doing after my last flu-turns-into-pneumonia episode:
1. Wash your hands regularly. Even when they don't seem dirty.
2. Don't touch your face.
3. Don't drink from public water fountains or punch bowls.
4. Stay away from small children and the places they frequent.
5. Drink copious amounts of water all the time.
I have a hard time with #2 -- I tend to unconsciously rub my chin when I'm
thinking. But all the rest, combined with annual flu shots, have kept me
relatively healthy for several years. Maybe that's just how you behave
all the time, and you didn't notice it.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"Anyone who willingly engages in a battle of wits
with a fish is at best evenly matched." -- Pete Young
Ayse Sercan
>Same here. I got the shot for the first time complements of my employer
>and am forever grateful. I know three people who've had pneumonia.
>I was on the phone with the cousin who had it and she was so laid
>low that her neighbor had to carry her to the hospital. A simple trip
>to the grocery Friday had her wheezing.
>
>All I had was a sore arm for three days.
I acutally got a mild form of the flu. It was odd, because I've had a flu
shot every year for several years now, so I got to experience in a mild
for the personal hell that all of you are going through.
I particularly like the part where you get really stupid. That was a nice
touch.
My one real peeve about the flu is not being sick, per se, but the way it
makes me want to sit down *right now* when I've reached the end of my
strength. When I was living in Massachusetts, I got a fairly serious flu
(which was also complicated by walking pneumonia, but I didn't know that
for a while). I finally hied myself to the infirmary when I paused to
have a seat -- and a brief rest -- on a bench in the botanical gardens, on
my way home. I came to hours later covered in snow.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"I think that everyone should have a crazy friend, just to
keep one's own problems in perspective." --Pat Steppic
Elaine Richards
Joy Haftel <jkh...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <slrn87gq87....@pc.antipope.org>,
>Charlie Stross <charlie @ nospam . antipope . org> wrote:
>The !Peeve is that I took advantage of the employer-provided free flu shot
>for the 1st time in my life this fall. I just thought it'd be useful. If
Same here. I got the shot for the first time complements of my employer
and am forever grateful. I know three people who've had pneumonia.
I was on the phone with the cousin who had it and she was so laid
low that her neighbor had to carry her to the hospital. A simple trip
to the grocery Friday had her wheezing.
All I had was a sore arm for three days.
ER
Charlie Stross
<j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Sme of us, in addition to being mean and nasty, have mean and nasty
>immune systems. I haven't even so much as had a sniffle this season,
>despite such incredibly brilliant acts as standing out on Navy Pier
>last year for well over an hour in the cold and wind.
In a crowd of sick people? Or on your own?
Contrary to mythology, merely getting cold and wet doesn't make you
catch a bug. What makes you catch a bug is being exposed to pathogens.
"Cold and wet" can make you more vulnerable if it results in hypothermia
(read: fucks your immune system along with everything else). I tend to
put the "standing out in the cold and wind" belief down to a hang-over
from mediaeval notions about billious humours and suchlike being the
cause of disease.
!Peeve: my boss, having nursed his wife and two kids through this selfsame
flu over the past month, is urging me not to return to work too early
and risk a relapse. This advice is far too sensible to be coming from
management.
ObPeeve: I had a metric shitload of work on my desk when this sandbagged
me. And an overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
-- Charlie
Don Homuth
On 9 Jan 2000, Peggy Currid wrote:
> [DSD writes:]
>
> : !Peeve: I've never had influenza.
>
> I had it once -- when I was 12 years old. Never had it since. Given the
> mutability of the virus, I can't believe that I have an immunity to it, so
> why is it that I, and many other people, avoid catching it?
Hypothesis 1: You don't breathe in.
Hypothesis 2: You're always upwind of everyone else.
Elaine Richards
Charlie Stross <charlie @ nospam . antipope . org> wrote:
>
>flu over the past month, is urging me not to return to work too early
>and risk a relapse. This advice is far too sensible to be coming from
>management.
It would have been a larger !peeve if your boss sprang for flu shots
and had the nurses come to your office. (Spot my !peeve.)
YOu also don't want to go to work and catch any of those wonderful
opportunistic secondardy things that are going around.
ER
John S. Novak, III
>>Sme of us, in addition to being mean and nasty, have mean and nasty
>>immune systems. I haven't even so much as had a sniffle this season,
>>despite such incredibly brilliant acts as standing out on Navy Pier
>>last year for well over an hour in the cold and wind.
>In a crowd of sick people? Or on your own?
In a large crowd of people pressed very close, at least some of whom
must, statistically, have been sick and/or incubating and contagious.
>I tend to
>put the "standing out in the cold and wind" belief down to a hang-over
>from mediaeval notions about billious humours and suchlike being the
>cause of disease.
In actual point of fact, it is almost certain post hoc ergo propter
hoc, the correct chain of events being:
1) It gets cold.
2) People spend more time in doors, in close proximity.
3) Someone gets sick.
4) It spreads more quickly.
5) People notice that spread.
6) It is blamed on individuals standing out in the cold, vs people
collectively coming in from the cold.
Regardless, even in my college days-- and I can't imagine too many
better incubators for noxious contagions among today's yoof than a
small college in the middle of bumuck nowhere in the Midwest, with
hundreds or thousands of kids shoved like cattle into big boxy
dormitories, and forced to mix with each other through classes and
other sexual activities-- I would see people falling like threshed
wheat around me to the ravanges of the yearly straing of influenza,
while I shrugged, wondered what kind of defective immune systems they
had, and went on.
>!Peeve: my boss, having nursed his wife and two kids through this selfsame
>flu over the past month, is urging me not to return to work too early
>and risk a relapse. This advice is far too sensible to be coming from
>management.
Peeve: Finally working for a place that treats me like a professional
with regard to my sick time-- I'm salaried, therefore I shall not
abuse it, but it evidently doesn't come out of my allotted vacation
time.
Except, I damn near never get sick.
>ObPeeve: I had a metric shitload of work on my desk when this sandbagged
>me. And an overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
Oh, fuck it.
Half the reason most people are hit so hard by these things, I am
convinced, is that they insist on working despite their illness, thus
prolonging the experience, spreading it, and generally pissing
everyone else off.
I did almost get sick in grad school, once. And I drank a half a
gallon of orange juice, had a half a cap of NyQuil, woke up on the
kitchen floor a day later, and was right as rain.
?Peeve: NyQuil. Can't believe that shit is over the counter.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
John S. Novak, III
>Maybe Mr. Modest would like to take his spell checker to the clinic;
>it seems to be 'under the weather'.
Me and my legion of e-mail supporters are laughing at you and yours.
Fuck off, already.
Alex Elliott
John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>In actual point of fact, it is almost certain post hoc ergo propter
>hoc, the correct chain of events being:
>
>1) It gets cold.
>2) People spend more time in doors, in close proximity.
>3) Someone gets sick.
>4) It spreads more quickly.
>5) People notice that spread.
>6) It is blamed on individuals standing out in the cold, vs people
>collectively coming in from the cold.
You missed:
2a) The children go back to school.
Small children have got to be one of the biggest cold-and-flu vectors
around. They're not only crammed into little schoolrooms all day, but
they engage in all sorts of casual physical contact amongst themselves
(during gym class, playing with blocks time, pulling little Susie's
braids, etc.) and don't yet have adult-strength immune systems.
Even if you don't have small kids yourself, odds are that someone you
work with does. It's probably safest to just spray industrial-strength
Lysol on any suspected parent at work whenever they come within spritzing
range.
>Peeve: Finally working for a place that treats me like a professional
>with regard to my sick time-- I'm salaried, therefore I shall not
>abuse it, but it evidently doesn't come out of my allotted vacation
>time.
>
>Except, I damn near never get sick.
Me too, me too.
In my almost two years at this job I haven't needed to take a single
sick day. Because of this, I have absolutely no qualms about scheduling
dental checkups and the like during normal working hours.
Alex.
MikeM
Elliott) wrote:
>Even if you don't have small kids yourself, odds are that someone you
>work with does. It's probably safest to just spray industrial-strength
>Lysol on any suspected parent at work whenever they come within spritzing
>range.
If that's what you gotta do, at least spring for the
"mountain meadow" scent.
I'd rather not have to walk around the rest of the day
smelling (more) like my grandmother's toilet.
MikeM
"In the last 10 years they became rilly grim uneasy
making to read." -- E Varden
Rodger Whitlock
>Actually, today's influenzas are worldwide phenomena. The "Y2K bug" is
>exacting the same sort of decimation around here, where it's warm and
>sunny. The strain we are getting was in this year's flu shot, but so
>many people slack on getting the shot that it's spreading fast anyway.
I am now channeling every peever's mother[1], with a strong dose of
generalized Chinese, Italian, and Jewish motherliness thrown in for
good measure:
GET A FLU SHOT EVERY FALL!
It doesn't offer 100% protection, but it helps tip the odds; and I
have found, since I started getting them every year, that I no longer
have those repeated, protracted colds that used to make me feel
miserable for a month at a time, several times a winter.
[1] Peeve or !Peeve?
--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
John S. Novak, III
<toto...@mail.pacificcoast.net> wrote:
>I am now channeling every peever's mother[1],
Not mine.
We don't do that sort of worthless crap.
Real vaccinations against real diseases like polio, sure.
Flu shots? Feh.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
Naomi Diesendruck
>On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 03:17:13 GMT, Rodger Whitlock
><toto...@mail.pacificcoast.net> wrote:
>
>>I am now channeling every peever's mother[1],
>
>Not mine.
>We don't do that sort of worthless crap.
>Real vaccinations against real diseases like polio, sure.
>Flu shots? Feh.
Spoken like a lucky man with neither asthma nor heart disease!
Look at the subject of this thread for a clue to my opinion
on the matter...
ObPeeve: people who use the expression "I can't breathe!" to
mean their nose is plugged up - take it from me, when you *really*
can't breathe, you can't complain verbally about it either.
- Naomi D.
Theta Omega
news:85g4ap$kv6$1...@news.ycc.yale.edu...
> In article <slrn87lkn...@ts003d27.chi-il.concentric.net>,
> >hoc, the correct chain of events being:
> >
> >1) It gets cold.
> >2) People spend more time in doors, in close proximity.
> >3) Someone gets sick.
> >4) It spreads more quickly.
> >5) People notice that spread.
> >6) It is blamed on individuals standing out in the cold, vs people
> >collectively coming in from the cold.
>
> You missed:
> 2a) The children go back to school.
>
> Small children have got to be one of the biggest cold-and-flu vectors
> around. They're not only crammed into little schoolrooms all day, but
> they engage in all sorts of casual physical contact amongst themselves
> (during gym class, playing with blocks time, pulling little Susie's
> braids, etc.) and don't yet have adult-strength immune systems.
Have you ever been to a public middle-school? The toilets have enough health
code violations to qualify as a bio-warfare laboratory.
Once I was in one at the end of a winter day and the lights went out.
Something blue was glowing in the dark near my foot and I swear it was ready
to pounce. And as for the life forms they serve for lunch... if we had weak
immune systems we would all die extremely painful deaths before the end of
the first day and the few that did were carted off by the government.
Charlie Stross
<e...@idiom.com> wrote:
>It would have been a larger !peeve if your boss sprang for flu shots
>and had the nurses come to your office. (Spot my !peeve.)
That's probably going to happen ... this year.
(The company is small, but mushrooming. There's no HR department to
organise such things, as yet; back last August there were four of us in
the development team, three in S&M in London. Now there are eleven of us
in development, and we should be up to twenty or so in another two months
-- meanwhile the company is sprouting all the usual corporate extensions.)
-- Charlie
Geoff Miller
"Theta Omega" <om...@ukonline.co.uk writes:
> And as for the life forms they serve for lunch... if we had
> weak immune systems we would all die extremely painful deaths
> before the end of the first day and the few that did were
> carted off by the government.
Except that middle school students aren't "small children."
Speaking of middle school, when I was in 7th grade here in
Cupertino, the country was hit by an epidemic of Hong Kong
flu. At its height, about two thirds of my junior high
school's student body was out sick. I held out until the
tail end of it (I've always been very healthy), but it
finally got me, too.
Geoff
--
"Anyone who uses the term 'workshop' who isn't involved
in light engineering is a right twat." --Alexei Sayle
Ayse Sercan
>Speaking of middle school, when I was in 7th grade here in
>Cupertino, the country was hit by an epidemic of Hong Kong
>flu. At its height, about two thirds of my junior high
>school's student body was out sick. I held out until the
>tail end of it (I've always been very healthy), but it
>finally got me, too.
Fortunately, you weren't old enough to be a hazard on the roads, so you
had to stick to simply dressing as if you were trying to personify every
stereotype of a nerd.
Nancy
I work in a shipyard. I install and troubleshoot electrical equipment on
ships. Right now, I am home, in my second full week of convalescence from
pneumonia. A complication of a nasty flu bug, courtesy of a co-worker who
was kind enough to cough in my face without covering his mouth.
All! Damned! Day! I couldn't avoid his microbes if I'd wrapped myself in
Saran Wrap and dipped myself in Lysol. What an insufferable slob.
>It may be that you have an inborn immunity. But here's what my doctor
>told me to avoid doing after my last flu-turns-into-pneumonia episode:
>
>1. Wash your hands regularly. Even when they don't seem dirty.
>2. Don't touch your face.
>3. Don't drink from public water fountains or punch bowls.
>4. Stay away from small children and the places they frequent.
>5. Drink copious amounts of water all the time.
Can't do ANY of that on my current project- a guided missile cruiser
ensconced in drydock- the sewage system is shut down, drinking liquids is
NOT permitted except from the one, contaminated fountain provided, and the
toilets consist of two porta-potties for 1,000 people which are cleaned
ONCE a week.
I'm amazed that not everyone there is ill. Astounded.
When I go back, I'm going to bring some baby wipes and that waterless hand
sanitizer. If I get sick again, I'll probably end up in the hospital. I've
never dreaded a job as much as this one.
Podkayne Fries
>
>But here's what my doctortold me to avoid doing after my last
>flu-turns-into-pneumonia episode:
>
>1. Wash your hands regularly. Even when they don't seem dirty.
Allow me to add 1a - make sure that your spawn wash their hands
frequently. Nag them to the point where The Look is all the incentive
they need to rush off to the nearest sink.
Place a bottle of antibacterial waterless hand wash beside all the sinks
and Kleenex boxes, and send some along to school, too.
>2. Don't touch your face.
>3. Don't drink from public water fountains or punch bowls.
>4. Stay away from small children and the places they frequent.
>5. Drink copious amounts of water all the time.
The sprog's pediatrician advises wiping down all shared household
surfaces with Lysol or a 19:1 water/bleach solution. I've used so much
Clorox over the last few weeks that I think I've bleached away my
fingerprints.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
Those of you who think you know everything are
very annoying to those of us who do.
Francois
>immune systems. I haven't even so much as had a sniffle this season,
>despite such incredibly brilliant acts as standing out on Navy Pier
>last year for well over an hour in the cold and wind.
Funny you should mention that. My cow-orkers showed up sick as dogs
(thanks for sharing!), so of course I got the bug going 'round.
Felt feverish one day, like reconstituted crap the next, got
slightly better afterwords, and had my taste buds in fine fettle
for a wine tasting the weekend.
The cow-orkers were sick for three weeks. Maybe the fact they're
vegetarians and thus missing REAL MEAT something to do with it,
a proposition I made sure to suggest in a Sensitive Manner.
Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
sensitivity training course on sexual harrassment, literally
ten days before they sell our division to another corporation.
WTF?
Francois, time to have fun with the Catbert from HR.
Stephanie Wukovitz
Francois <f...@netcom.com> wrote:
>The cow-orkers were sick for three weeks. Maybe the fact they're
>vegetarians and thus missing REAL MEAT something to do with it,
>a proposition I made sure to suggest in a Sensitive Manner.
Ah, but on the other hand, during the years I spent as a vegetarian (sorta
close to vegan) I did not pick up a contagious disease once despite living
in upstate New Yawk surrounded by idiots too stupid to stay home when
choking on their own snot.
Peeve: Being unable to eat enough on that diet to maintain a healthy weight.
!Peeve: Moosewood, Cabbagetown Cafe.
Peeve: Most of the rest of Ithaca NY.
!Peeve: Living in a sane climate.
-Stephanie
Steve Glover
<geo...@netcom.com> writes
>
>
>"Theta Omega" <om...@ukonline.co.uk writes:
>
>> And as for the life forms they serve for lunch... if we had
>> weak immune systems we would all die extremely painful deaths
>> before the end of the first day and the few that did were
>> carted off by the government.
>
>
>Except that middle school students aren't "small children."
Well they come fairly close over here. We used to have (simplifying
grossly, and only discussing the state sector) Primary Schools
(Kindergarten to age eleven) and Secondary schools (eleven to possibly
eighteen, once divided into "Secondary Modern" and "Grammar" schools but
now uniformly "Comprehensive").
However this apparently wasn't complicated enough, so first the 16-18 or
so sections were split off as "Sixth Form Colleges" and a certain number
of Comprehensives and Primaries were merged to give fairly enormous,
multi-site schools (with ridiculous catchment areas) for the complete
process. Later this was discovered to have been A Mistake, but it
couldn't just be undone, as that might have embarrassed the sibyl
serpents responsible, so they split the afore-said enormous educational
abominations into three, with the "Middle Schools" being filled with
house apes of the eight to thirteen year old persuasion...
!Peeve: our two being at just the right ages to miss out on most of this
fucking around while we lived in Leeds (corollary Peeve: what happened
to Tara on moving from Leeds to Edinburgh).
Steve
--
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Available from 5/1/00
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Work: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk
Charlie Stross
<ch...@enteract.com> wrote:
>Charlie Stross <charlie @ nospam . antipope . org> wrote:
>
>>(The company is small, but mushrooming.
>
>They're keeping you in the dark and covering you in shit?
Oddly, not much. At least, it isn't deliberate: there's simply too much
going on to keep everyone in the picture.
>>back last August there were four of us in
>>the development team, three in S&M in London.
>
>What does your company do again? Are you starting a separate B&D team
>soon?
S&M's job is to sell and market product -- and to thrash bankers soundly,
upon demand. So maybe there's scope for you yet; just pull on a pin-striped
suit and bend over.
-- Charlie
Charles R. Tenney
John S. Novak, III <j...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Me and my legion of e-mail supporters are laughing at you and yours.
Me am wincing at your grammar, though.
--CRT
Charles R. Tenney
Rodger Whitlock <toto...@mail.pacificcoast.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:34:36 GMT, ag...@uswest.net (Alan Gore) wrote:
>I am now channeling every peever's mother[1], with a strong dose of
>generalized Chinese, Italian, and Jewish motherliness thrown in for
>good measure:
>
>GET A FLU SHOT EVERY FALL!
I've been getting conflicting advice about this. My parents are feeding me
stories about stampedes of the flu-stricken to the hospitals, while the GF
tells me that she's not convinced of the safety of the shot and feels
that the risk from the disease is lower than that from the vaccine. Since
she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying infectious
diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
Of course, her POV is colored by the fact that her department chair's brother
(in his early 40's, so neither youthful nor geriatric) recently had a flu
shot, and four days later was dead. When she asked said chairman what the
complications of the shot were, he chuckled wanly and said, "death,
apparently."
--Charles Tenney
Peeve: One of UNC's new computer systems doesn't seem to understand the
commands for posting to USENET. Oh, well, since I've been working at Dook
for close on two years now, I might as well post from here as well.
Ayse Sercan
[flu shot]
>I've been getting conflicting advice about this. My parents are feeding me
>stories about stampedes of the flu-stricken to the hospitals, while the GF
>tells me that she's not convinced of the safety of the shot and feels
>that the risk from the disease is lower than that from the vaccine. Since
>she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying infectious
>diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
I got rather sick after this year's shot.
If I'd already been feeling under the weather, and had failed to notice
it, I might have gotten even sicker. If I had any of the health risks
that they list off as making the flu shot dangerous, I might have died. As
it was, I turned into a gibbering moron for a few days and took some time
off work.
However, after I had pneumonia a couple winters in a row as a complication
of the flu, my doctor told me I would be getting a flu shot for the next
five years, in order to reduce my risk of getting VERY sick. Pneumonia
does quite a job on your system, and pneumonia more than once in a short
period of time can make you quite unwell overall.
Given the risks, for me, a flu shot is a no-brainer.
Amazingly enough, even in this age when people can see and hear the
reasoned list of risks and benefits, nobody seems to be able to make up
their mind for themselves. A flu shot did Aunt Mamie good, they hear, so
it must be the right thing for them. A coworker got very sick after
having one, so they must not be a good idea. Annecdotal evidence
surpasses scientific knowledge every step of the way, even in
otherwise-intelligent and reasoned people.
cato shelton
Charles R. Tenney <cr...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:85lbgr$b6p$1...@news.duke.edu...
Since
> she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying
infectious
> diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
I have no reason to believe that your GF is anything but supremely
level-headed, but I would venture to ask why holding a degree in Any Field
precludes ignorant wackiness? It's my considered opinion that history is
full of all manner of scholars who dedicated their lives to working within
the accepted paradigm, only to have some "ignorant whacko" like Einstein
come along and blow all their notions to hell. I would also point out that
being accepted as an unconditional expert in one field may create blind
spots in other areas. Einstein, for all his brilliance, was rather socially
inept...
I certainly do not subscribe to the wildly popular notion that extreme
erudition has the effect of pushing common sense out through one's ears
(Peeve: why is this screed always espoused by people who seemingly have
neither erudition nor common sense?), but the stereotypes of the"mad
scientist" and the "absent-minded professor" have been with us for a very
long time indeed. I'm inclined to believe that these portrayals of the
brilliant and [allegedly] over-educated as being somewhat scattered have a
grain of truth at their roots. Of course, it is easy enough to forgive
Einstein for having a ridiculous hairdo, but that perfectly coiffed bottle
blonde who just held up the entire check-out line because she cannot be
bothered to read the expiration dates on her "kewpons"...? I will gleefully
dream of her bloody demise this evening....
In any event, listen to your girlfriend. She has every reason to give you
the benefit of her exquisitely informed opinion.
--
Cato Shelton
"Until you understand a writer's ignorance, presume yourself ignorant of his
understanding." --Coleridge
Geoff Miller
Ayse's doctor recommends:
> Don't touch your face.
Why not? I can see not touching your eyes or putting your
fingers in your mouth, but why would it be risky to touch
the parts of your face that lacked mucous membranes (chin,
cheeks, forehead, eyebrows, etc.)?
> Don't drink from public water fountains or punch bowls.
Again, why not? Even if somebody spit on the part of
the fountain where the water comes out, simply running
the water for a couple of seconds before drinking would
blow away any contamination, would it not?
> Drink copious amounts of water all the time.
What good does that do? If you're infected with some
virus or microbe, is it possible to pee it out before
it gains a toehold on your system?
Ayse Sercan
>Ayse's doctor recommends:
>
>> Don't touch your face.
>
>Why not? I can see not touching your eyes or putting your
>fingers in your mouth, but why would it be risky to touch
>the parts of your face that lacked mucous membranes (chin,
>cheeks, forehead, eyebrows, etc.)?
Because stuff moves around, and if you touch, say, the top of your nose
with infected fingers, and then later blew your nose, you will wipe
nastiness into your nose or eyes. Also, you tend not to be able to stop
touching your face in parcels. I know I tried it and would catch myself
rubbing my eyes, yet again.
>> Don't drink from public water fountains or punch bowls.
>
>Again, why not? Even if somebody spit on the part of
>the fountain where the water comes out, simply running
>the water for a couple of seconds before drinking would
>blow away any contamination, would it not?
No. Backflow may even mildly infect the fountain itself. Mostly it's
that the implements (buttons, or ladels, or handles) for using such
fountains and punch bowls are, themselves, infected.
>> Drink copious amounts of water all the time.
>
>What good does that do? If you're infected with some
>virus or microbe, is it possible to pee it out before
>it gains a toehold on your system?
Water is necessary for various cellular functions. Since most people
don't drink enough water in general, they are not able to regenerate cells
as needed. That, and fevers tend to dehydrate you, and dehydration feels
like illness, so you'll feel better sooner if you drink more water.
Barry Spaulding
(Charles Tenney) says...
>
> stories about stampedes of the flu-stricken to the hospitals, while the GF
> tells me that she's not convinced of the safety of the shot and feels
> she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying infectious
> diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
Well, maybe not wacky.
In the yooess some 20,000 people boxed from flu and
flu-related complications last year. Dunno exactly how many
died from the vaccine, but you can certainly whack at least
a couple zeroes off that.
The serious complications from vaccine are usually allergic,
often secondary to egg allergies as the (subsequently
killed) viruses are grown in an egg medium and some of the
egg proteins get into the vaccine. IIRC there were some
cases of Guillan-Barre (nasty, but usually non-fatal)
attributed to flu shots some years back. Most of the
serious "complications" of the flu shots are in fact
unrelated, merely the inevitable coincidences one sees when
an event, such as giving flu shots, occurs many millions of
times each year.
Healthy adults rarely have serious problems with either flu
OR the vaccine, so feel free to skip your flu shot if you're
feeling lucky, or cheap, or can't be bothered, but don't
tell yourself it's the safer course. Those of you at risk
due to other medical conditions or who are in extensive
contact with folks at risk shouldn't miss it.
bcs
John S. Novak, III
>The cow-orkers were sick for three weeks. Maybe the fact they're
>vegetarians and thus missing REAL MEAT something to do with it,
>a proposition I made sure to suggest in a Sensitive Manner.
Anecdotally, I have tons of evidence for that.
My grad school flat mate was a veggie, and he was constantly sick.
Of course, the fact that he kept an inhuman and punishing schedule
probably had something to do with it, too.
>Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
> sensitivity training course on sexual harrassment, literally
> ten days before they sell our division to another corporation.
<Snort>
I used to love mandatory meetings like that, at Raytheon.
I don't know how many lists I got put on for my antics, but I had a
hell of a time.
> WTF?
Probably a condition of the sale.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
Pete Stickney
> Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
> sensitivity training course on sexual harrassment, literally
> ten days before they sell our division to another corporation.
> WTF?
Look upon it as a great opportunity for amusement. Being, in
general a rather polite sort, I don't see much of the point to
this stuff that not being raised by Lemurs, and a proper
knowledge of the Law couldn't already provide. Our orientation
consisted of showing little videotaped vignettes, and some H.R.
Catbert asking us if such and so a behavior was Sexual
Harrasment. My general response was on the order of "Well, I
don't know about that, but it is Terroristic Treatening, which is
consideres a Class B Felony in these parts, and all assets can be
RICO'ed." Kinda put a different perspective on things, I hope.
> Francois, time to have fun with the Catbert from HR.
As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
Americans with Disabilities Act.
--
- Pete Stickney Wonder en is gheen wonder
Kenneth Crudup
f...@netcom.com (Francois) says:
>Felt feverish one day, like reconstituted crap the next, got
>slightly better afterwords, and had my taste buds in fine fettle
>for a wine tasting the weekend.
Had the 36-hour thing, here, too. I used it to catch up on the hours upon
hours of videotaped teevee I've got.
>Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
> sensitivity training course on sexual harrassment ...
Be sure to report back with news of the latest techniques, OK?
-Kenny
--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Washington, D.C.
Home1: 8455 Colesville Rd. #914 Silver Spring, MD 20910-0914 (301) 562-1922
Home2: 38010 Village Cmn. #217 Fremont, CA 94536-7525 (510) 745-8181
Work: 19420 Homestead Road Cupertino, CA 95014-0606 (408) 447-6654
Ayse Sercan
>On 13 Jan 2000 06:35:58 GMT, Francois <f...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>The cow-orkers were sick for three weeks. Maybe the fact they're
>>vegetarians and thus missing REAL MEAT something to do with it,
>>a proposition I made sure to suggest in a Sensitive Manner.
>
>Anecdotally, I have tons of evidence for that.
>My grad school flat mate was a veggie, and he was constantly sick.
Here's a data point to negate that one: since I became a vegetarian, my
health has been getting better by leaps and bounds, so much so that I
haven't had any real illness in nearly two years, while a pair of
colleagues, meat-eaters the both of them, have been sick pretty much
non-stop since September with flus that don't ever seem to go away.
Not that either of our stories proves a damned thing.
--
ay...@idiom.com
"I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed
contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts."
--John Steinbeck
Tony Quirke
> I am now channeling every peever's mother[1], with a strong dose of
> generalized Chinese, Italian, and Jewish motherliness thrown in for
> good measure:
> GET A FLU SHOT EVERY FALL!
Not mine. She's into rebirthing and herbal stuff. Feh - *and* she got
upset when I started questioning this in my usual sceptical manner.
Oh, and now she's on the Internet. On the off chance she ever
discovers Dejanews and reads this - hi, Mum. Love you heaps.
- Tony Q. (Please don't kill me)
--
"Basically, in any setting where there was some prospect of the Communists
gaining power, killing them was fully justified both in a moral and a
prudential sense." - S.M. Stirling [regarding Indonesia]
"Error has no rights." - Tomas de Torquemada
jul...@bongo.tele.com
Francois <f...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>The cow-orkers were sick for three weeks. Maybe the fact they're
>vegetarians and thus missing REAL MEAT something to do with it,
>a proposition I made sure to suggest in a Sensitive Manner.
We are after all omnivores. And meat is after all
supposed to be the product of us doing manly things and hunting
and herding. Of course we should eat meat. All sorts of meat.
Pates, kidneys, steaks and other tasty bits. Keeps us healthy and
sentient.
>
>Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
> sensitivity training course on sexual harrassment, literally
> ten days before they sell our division to another corporation.
Doncha love this stuff? Not that they do it so much as
the fact that they actually convince themselves that it is
important.
A friend just left a company where they had recently
passed out a memo forbidding "office romances" (sic). Seeing as
we tend to have affairs with our social circle (work, church,
etc.) are they really serious or just playing along with the
angry bitches in HR who having spent a few years doing "Women's
studies" now want to impose their misery on others?
> WTF?
Indeed. At my current place of employment, the Network
guys all have these blue windcheaters, the type JBTs like to wear
when the cameras are rolling. You know the ones that have yellow
lettering on the back saying "POLICE", "SHERIFF", "DEA", "FBI",
etc. Well, theirs say "WTF" as in "What The Fuck?"
Myself I am looking for one that says "SUSPECT". When
they are busy doing cop stuff with all the news crews on site, I
would like to wander onto the scene with my "SUSPECT" jacket on.
Seeing as the JBTs seem to consider anyone who is not one of
them a suspect, it should be fun.
--
Most people like you are all the same. - Branwell Moffat <bran...@fsite.com>
Alan Gore
>Amazingly enough, even in this age when people can see and hear the
>reasoned list of risks and benefits, nobody seems to be able to make up
>their mind for themselves. A flu shot did Aunt Mamie good, they hear, so
>it must be the right thing for them. A coworker got very sick after
>having one, so they must not be a good idea. Annecdotal evidence
>surpasses scientific knowledge every step of the way, even in
>otherwise-intelligent and reasoned people.
Peeve: public policy is being made by people who believe that
'anecdote' is the singular of 'data'.
ag...@uswest.net | "Giving money and power to the government
Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys
Software For PC's | to teenaged boys" - P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.alangore.com
Kenneth Crudup
>Indeed. At my current place of employment, the Network
>guys all have these blue windcheaters, the type JBTs like to wear
>when the cameras are rolling. You know the ones that have yellow
>lettering on the back saying "POLICE", "SHERIFF", "DEA", "FBI",
>etc. Well, theirs say "WTF" as in "What The Fuck?"
Get. Me. One. Now!
How do they pass it off? "W---- Technical Force"?
Pat Steppic
ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup) wrote:
> In article <85nif7$9hg$1...@bongo.tele.com>, jul...@bongo.tele.com says:
>
>
> Get. Me. One. Now!
ObAOL: Me too.
> How do they pass it off? "W---- Technical Force"?
Pat "What's This For?" Steppic
--
Money can't buy happiness, but if you're not
happy, it's a lot easier to endure if you can buy
hardcover books. -- Lenore Levine
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Charles R. Tenney
cato shelton <quee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Charles R. Tenney <cr...@duke.edu> wrote in message
>news:85lbgr$b6p$1...@news.duke.edu...
>> she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying
>infectious
>> diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
>
>
>level-headed, but I would venture to ask why holding a degree in Any Field
>precludes ignorant wackiness?
It doesn't preclude wackiness, as many of us have cause to know. It does
preclude that type of wackiness born of complete ignorance when the topic at
hand is the subject of study for the degree in question.
>It's my considered opinion that history is
>full of all manner of scholars who dedicated their lives to working within
>the accepted paradigm, only to have some "ignorant whacko" like Einstein
>come along and blow all their notions to hell. I would also point out that
>being accepted as an unconditional expert in one field may create blind
>spots in other areas. Einstein, for all his brilliance, was rather socially
>inept...
Einstien was decidedly wacky, but decidedly not ignorant of the known physics
of his day. And he was reputedly a fairly good violinist, too. I don't know
about his social ineptness--it may have been magnified comparison with other
celebrities such as politicians and entertainers, whose success depended on
their high degree of social polish.
--CRT
Bob O`Brien
>
> Indeed. At my current place of employment, the Network
>guys all have these blue windcheaters, the type JBTs like to wear
>when the cameras are rolling. You know the ones that have yellow
>lettering on the back saying "POLICE", "SHERIFF", "DEA", "FBI",
Some of the network types I know have the same, but with "BOFH".
If you don't know, ask in alt.sysadmin.recovery
Bob O`Bob
--
+ email replies without this line will be discarded 7ai0edfb (expires 24jan00) +
No spammer could ever be too broke or too hungry.
Bob O`Brien
> ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup) wrote:
>> jul...@bongo.tele.com says:
>>
>> >..."WTF" as in "What The Fuck?"
>>
>> Get. Me. One. Now!
>
>ObAOL: Me too.
>
>> How do they pass it off? "W---- Technical Force"?
>
>Pat "What's This For?" Steppic
Way back when I was serving a sentence in cubicle-land, I used to have
a little placard over my desk reading "BTHOOM".
It was solely there so that people could ask what it meant,
to which I'd respond, in a quizzical tone, "beats the hell outta me!"
Approximately one in twenty would go on to ask why, then, I would
put up such a sign, if I knew not what it meant.
Of the latter set, when enlightenment eventually dawned, only one
(out of at least twenty) threatened to apply a literal interpretation.
Charles R. Tenney
Barry Spaulding <b.spa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>In article <85lbgr$b6p$1...@news.duke.edu>, cr...@duke.edu
>(Charles Tenney) says...
>>
>> stories about stampedes of the flu-stricken to the hospitals, while the GF
>> tells me that she's not convinced of the safety of the shot and feels
>> she holds a doctorate in Epidemiology and has experience studying infectious
>> diseases, she's not just being ignorantly wacky.
>
>
>In the yooess some 20,000 people boxed from flu and
>flu-related complications last year. Dunno exactly how many
>died from the vaccine, but you can certainly whack at least
>a couple zeroes off that.
[vaccine complications usually come from egg allergies, etc.]
The CDC's webpage tends to support you. A few observations in my lady's
defense, though:
Her advice was given last year, before the virulence of this year's strain
became apparent. In fact, she got it, felt horrible, and told me repeatedly
that she now understood why I'd want the shot. (She hadn't had flu in years,
and had never had such a bad case.) She's familiar with what the CDC says,
but she's also familiar with the way the recommendations are written. Most
of us would just take the CDC's word for it, but most of us wouldn't
understand a safety study report to the extent that she would. I think she
sees the CDC as having an inflated reputation, an idea which pops up also in
Richard Preston's book _The Hot Zone_, about the simian Ebola outbreak in
Reston, Va. Some of her skepticism may be born of the fact that one of her
good friends has been offered a job there--the same way I was slightly but
permanently disillusioned with the medical profession the day one of my
hard-partying friends got into Med school.
Then again, maybe she's just scared--one anecdote can do that if it's bad
enough and hits close enough. I haven't asked her about the recent stories
of unusually bad flu, with high hospitalization rates, that seems to be down
down to D.C. and moving southwards. I intend to ask her again soon. So far
I have (knock on wood) dodged it, despite times of having the choice between
staying with a sick girlfriend or a sick brother.
[Healthy adults won't likely cack it from the vaccine or the flue]
>Those of you at risk
>due to other medical conditions or who are in extensive
>contact with folks at risk shouldn't miss it.
This is true. It's especially important for people over 65, diabetics, people
with heart, lung, or kidney disease, immunosupression, or anemia. Children
or teens on long-term asprin therapy are also good candidates due to the
possibility of Reye's syndrome. People who live with the above or whose
work brings them in contact with the same should get the shot to avoid
infecting the high-risk people.
--CRT
Steve Daniels
ob...@best.com (Bob O`Brien) to say:
>Way back when I was serving a sentence in cubicle-land, I used to have
>a little placard over my desk reading "BTHOOM".
>It was solely there so that people could ask what it meant,
>to which I'd respond, in a quizzical tone, "beats the hell outta me!"
Way back when I was a gunner's mate, I had a chart on the armory
wall that indicated the types and locations of various ammunition
in the magazines. Empty magazines were noted by an 'MT' on the
board.
Someone asked me what MT stood for. I said it meant that space
was empty. He countered with "Yeah, but what does that mean?"
Steve "Where are Abbott and Costello when you need them?" Daniels
Tony Quirke
> As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
> at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
> to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
> Americans with Disabilities Act.
Get it in writing - and then do it to him. Repeatedly.
- Tony Q.
Alan Gore
>> As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
>> at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
>> to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
>> Americans with Disabilities Act.
>
> Get it in writing - and then do it to him. Repeatedly.
Actually, this guy might be right. After our First Groper excused his
actions in a tearful speech blaming his childhood, Womyn quietly
accepted the validity of the argument as they pleaded with us to Move
On.
Pete Stickney
>
> qui...@localhost.actrix.gen.nz (Tony Quirke) wrote:
>
> >> As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
> >> at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
> >> to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
> >> Americans with Disabilities Act.
> >
> > Get it in writing - and then do it to him. Repeatedly.
>
> Actually, this guy might be right. After our First Groper excused his
> actions in a tearful speech blaming his childhood, Womyn quietly
> accepted the validity of the argument as they pleaded with us to Move
> On.
The ADA was his excuse. He was eventually booted out the door by
letting out contracts for services to non-existant vendors.
As far as whether or not it is, indeed covered, I don't wish to
know.
Big Dude
<p-sti...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Alan Gore wrote:
>>
>> qui...@localhost.actrix.gen.nz (Tony Quirke) wrote:
>>
>> >> As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
>> >> at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
>> >> to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
>> >> Americans with Disabilities Act.
>> >
>> > Get it in writing - and then do it to him. Repeatedly.
>The ADA was his excuse. He was eventually booted out the door by
>letting out contracts for services to non-existant vendors.
>
>As far as whether or not it is, indeed covered, I don't wish to
>know.
I'm pretty sure it's not actually covered. I know for a fact that
voyeurism is not covered... I checked.
Pete Stickney
Looked it up, did you?
Francois
>f...@netcom.com (Francois) says:
>
>>Peeve: The Main Office at work has decreed we must attend a mandatory
>
>Be sure to report back with news of the latest techniques, OK?
No fun. I showed up the minimum time necessary to sign the presence sheet.
On the proscribed list: comments about body, age, ethnic origin, sexual
preference, not to mention the ever-popular profanity.
I had half a mind to ask the Catbert whether she would have any objections
to my describing myself as a fat fortish faggy Frog fuck-face, but I had
better things to do. Like hassle some pointers. Again.
Peeve: One of the locals objected when I bitched about this waste of time:
"You should be more sensitive", whereupon I informed her that in
the Great White North, women were more apt to retaliate with beefcake
instead of complaints should semi-clad babes show up in the office.
Francois, another day, another writeup.
"This is not the Barney show, I'm not a goddamn purple dinosaur,
and I don't give a shit about your *feelings*. To me, caring means
not burning your house down." -- Phillip Birmingham.
Ayse Sercan
><p-sti...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> >> As a wonderfully Ironic Note, it was found that our Head Catbert
>>> >> at the time had a fondness for groping employee's tits. He tried
>>> >> to weasel out by claining that Frotteurism is covered under the
>>> >> Americans with Disabilities Act.
>>The ADA was his excuse. He was eventually booted out the door by
>>letting out contracts for services to non-existant vendors.
>>
>>As far as whether or not it is, indeed covered, I don't wish to
>>know.
>
>I'm pretty sure it's not actually covered. I know for a fact that
>voyeurism is not covered... I checked.
There's a fairly easy test for whether something is covered by the act. If
it is unpleasant to look at but does not have an unreasonable impact on
the person's ability to do their job (for example, code wank with
Tourette's who telecommutes and keeps symptoms under control with drugs),
it is covered. As soon as it poses a physical danger or interferes beyond
reason with the person's ability to do the job, it is not covered (for
example, boss who feels compulsion to assault employees, UPS driver with
no legs, code wank with Tourette's who refuses to take drugs or work at
home).
The same condition may be covered and not covered under varying
circumstances. I'd expect my boss to make reasonable accomodations rather
than firing me outright if I lost use of a hand, for example. I wouldn't
expect that for a jeweler.
Of course, being reasonable and understanding the law isn't quite as much
fun and doesn't lead to quite as interesting stories.
Podkayne Fries
[sensitivity training]
>
>
>Peeve: One of the locals objected when I bitched about this waste of time:
> "You should be more sensitive", whereupon I informed her that in
> the Great White North, women were more apt to retaliate with beefcake
> instead of complaints should semi-clad babes show up in the office.
!Peeve: Playgirl calendars. When I worked in an all-male department, I
didn't complain about the Hustlers pictures that were plastered on every
surface. I brought in a Playgirl calendar, hung it up and plastered my
locker with pictures of nekkid men.
Peeve: The men didn't object, but the women on our floor (who never came
into our break room, FWIW) did. The department supervisor made us take
down all the pictures.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
"You can either see it as a removal of the weakminded from our group
or as the majestic Podkayne eagle swooping down on the lame minded
drooling rodent that infests the fields of the Usenet leaving various
sticky substances everywhere he wanders. Either way it is just another
of Nature's wonders. While it may seem cruel to the uninitiated, it is
necessary to prevent the pests from destroying it for the rest of us."
<896238577.8069.0...@news.demon.co.uk> - Mark Alan Evans