Re: Erections during a spanking
George Orwell
of exactly what was being done in these pictures:
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/index2.htm
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm
you are looking at the pictures and reading the accounts of
exactly how children particularly boys were always disciplined.
The only difference is children traditionally were
never actually injured when being spanked and disciplined.
Jennie jcold...@excite.com wrote in this message:
news:1125299470.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Subject: Erections during a spanking
My son gets tight pants during an over the knee spanking.
What should I do?
Jennie
You are not giving the boy a spanking. What you are doing is
rewarding him, not punishing him.
The problem is spanking is not fashionable at this time in
history. Many do not even know what a spanking actually is !
These days anyone who mentions spanking is shouted down. Fashions
come and go, so spanking will become popular again. When spanking
is in vogue, anyone who disagrees with spanking is shouted down.
Jennie, in a time and place where spanking is approved,
this is what you would be told:
The boy should not get,
"tight pants during an over the knee spanking"
because he should not have any pants.
He is too comfortable in over the knee position with pants on
and your hand spanking has no effect.
First strip him naked. Cane him on his backside and on the palms
of his hands. You would keep doing it until you have him so
disciplined he stays completely still while you are caning him.
If at first he tends to move around, you'd find the more you do it
the more control you get over him and over the movements of his
body.
You would not cause him any injury and the cane
marks only stay for a few hours at most.
Actually, if you are firm it is not
necessary to use a spanking implement.
Traditionally a cane would be used when boy
is stripped naked and bent over a chair.
Strap would be used when spanking him over your knee.
Spanking a boy over your knee with your bare hand on his bare
backside does not have much effect if that is all you do.
Basically you need to overwhelm him to a certain degree. No good
if he can intimidate you by having an erection. It is you who must
embarrass, humble and humiliate him.
In boys schools very often a teacher would need to spank a boy
but there would not be a strap or cane close by so the teacher
would have to use his hand.
When spanking a boy over the knee with only the hand
it was normal to give the testicles a few slaps !
Slapping the testicles with the palm of the hand never caused any
injury and does not even make any marks. There was a time when
this way of spanking boys was completely normal. The boys did not
talk about it much because of the embarrassment but it was accepted
and commonplace. Boys were most embarrassed by things like that
in regard to their mothers, sisters, female teachers and women in
general so they would never talk about it.
If you look at the iraqi pictures it's easy to see it is just
an acting out of the traditional ways boys were always disciplined:
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/index2.htm
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm
The iraqi case is more brutal because it is in time of war but
all the crusty old commanding officers remember how embarrassing
it was to have their pants taken off and be disciplined by being
caned on their bare backsides and slapped on their testicles
when they were young boys.
No doubt all those old men will never forget the humiliation
they felt at the mere thought of a woman knowing about how they
were disciplined. You'll notice how women were used to full
humiliating humbling effect on the iraqi men and boys.
People who spank can discipline children thoroughly
but only if they know how to spank properly.
The aim of spanking is not to cause injury or even pain.
Spanking is only disciplining when the spanking is thoroughly
humiliating and all humiliation in the last analysis is
sexual humiliation.
Jennie, when and where spanking is natural the advice to you is
strip him, spank him and control him so he can never get an
erection when you do not want him to get an erection and he can
never resist getting an erection if for some reason you want
him to get an erection.
The safest and happiest children, dogs and soldiers are
the ones that are the best disciplined and most controlled.
Jennie, you need sympathy and support. The boy is being a brat
because he is intimidating you by having an erection
every time you try to discipline him.
A huge number of boys raised by lone single women
grow up to be drug addicts and alcoholics.
You may need some support and help to establish
control over the boy before it is too late.
A man friend can be very useful to you for that purpose but a
woman friend who knows how to discipline boys could be even more
useful to you.
Best of all would be to have a few women you can trust there
with you helping and supporting you when you are spanking the boy.
Kindest regards from
supportive spanking friends
Jennie
George Orwell wrote:
> you are looking at the pictures and reading the accounts of
> exactly how children particularly boys were always disciplined.
> The only difference is children traditionally were
> never actually injured when being spanked and disciplined.
Nonsense, boys were never disciplined by being savaged by dogs. The
level of pain in my spankings is about right, although I do own a set
of canes and use them from time to time. I posted about the erections
he gets during a spanking.
Jennie
PaulBrozon
Yet, keep in mind that even Frued said spanking is sex. If someone is
spanking another beyond puberty, there may be a sexual stimulation
associated with the spanking. Probably a good reason why spanking is not
for children.
kane_...@yahoo.com
PaulBrozon wrote:
> Spanking is done by about 90% of all parents, so it is socially accepted.
> Yet, keep in mind that even Frued said spanking is sex. If someone is
> spanking another beyond puberty, there may be a sexual stimulation
> associated with the spanking.
Or it's assault.
> Probably a good reason why spanking is not
> for children.
Yah mean to tell us yah think chilerin are "sexchual?"
Who'd a thunk.
0;->
Carlson LaVonne
PaulBrozon wrote:
> Spanking is done by about 90% of all parents, so it is socially accepted.
The percentage is declining, but yes, by the majority of parents in the
US, spanking remains socially acceptable. This doesn't make spanking
children right -- there was a time when slavery was socially acceptable,
as well as a denial of women's rights. Even though it was at a time
"socially acceptable" -- things changed.
> Yet, keep in mind that even Frued said spanking is sex. If someone is
> spanking another beyond puberty, there may be a sexual stimulation
> associated with the spanking.Probably a good reason why spanking is not
> for children.
I'd say the best reason why spanking is not for children is because
children should not be legally assaultable. Children are not legally
able to provide consent, as are adults. An adult spanking without
mutual consent would also be legally defined as assault.
LaVonne
>
Jennie
> children should not be legally assaultable. Children are not legally
> able to provide consent, as are adults.
Your first sentence just generalises a bit. Instead of showing that
spanking is not for children, you now have to prove that children
should not be legally assaultable, which is going to be harder to prove
because it is less specific. Otherwise you have to answer the question,
"Why shouldn't children be assaultable?"
Your second sentence also contributes little: consent is not an issue
in this argument: children are spanked without their consent; that's
part of the definition of a spanking. Therefore it doesn't really
matter whether they are able to give consent or not.
Jennie
kane_...@yahoo.com
Jennie wrote:
> > I'd say the best reason why spanking is not for children is because
> > children should not be legally assaultable. Children are not legally
> > able to provide consent, as are adults.
>
> Your first sentence just generalises a bit.
"generalises?" [sic] There is nothing "general" about the concept that
children are in this county, and not in some other, allowed to be
assaulted and that act not just allowing but in fact protected by law.
The writer opined, as in "I'd say," so that sets the framework as a
generality, but that is all it does. From "the best reason" on it is
quite specific and clear.
In fact, Jennie, the comment ending in "a bit," is itself vague and
"general."
> Instead of showing that
> spanking is not for children,
It isn't just for children. Adults do it to each other, sans battery,
with consent. You are being deliberately obtuse and evasive.
> you now have to prove that children
> should not be legally assaultable,
"Prove" a moral concept? I'll prove it for you:
http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/general/stats/index.cfm
http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm
http://www.ndacan.cornell.edu/NDACAN/Datasets/Abstracts/DatasetAbstract_NCANDS_General.html
http://www.preventchildabuse.org/learn_more/research_docs/cost_analysis.pdf
Want to argue these facts above, from the data offered on abuse and
fatalities represent in the majority NOT parental "discipline
attempts," but abuse? Well, that is the point. No one can say for sure
quite where that line of demarcation is between the one and the other.
Can you?
Apparently those that can think, and fortunatly ACT, as some of our
legislators can and will in the future to outlaw this barbarity,
understand how very easy it is to slide into abuse and injury...still
thinking one has only been disciplining a child.
According to the Institute for the Prevention of Child Abuse, "85% of
all cases of physical abuse results from some form of over-discipline
through the use of corporal punishment". According to testimony
submitted to the House of Representatives (E1032--Congressional Record)
March 21, 1991 by Major R. Owens of NY:
"In most cases, fortunately, the physical injuries children experience
are relatively minor -- some redness and soreness of the skin -- and do
not require medical treatment. But the vulnerability of young
children's bodies is such that the potential for causing more severe
injuries is great, including hematomas, ruptured blood vessels, massive
fat emboli, sciatic nerve damage, muscle damage, and brain hemorrhage.
Every year we hear of children across the United States who are
seriously injured and even permanently disabled as a result of corporal
punishment. As Prof. John R. Cryan of the Association for Childhood
Education International noted in a 1987 article:
'Adults plainly underestimate the amount of force they are capable of
producing. Sometimes children are injured during even the mildest
punishment when they jerk away and the blow lands off target, or when
they fall against the sharp edge of some object. Eyes, ears and brains
may be permanently damaged as a result of paddling. Whiplash injuries
may result from shaking. Injuries from blows to the chest and abdomen
are life threatening. Bones are easily fractured and even the slightest
whack may produce a jolt to the brain through the bony spinal column
and spinal cord, resulting in significant swelling or bleeding."
http://www.nospank.net/dutton.htm
> which is going to be harder to prove
> because it is less specific.
Most all moral concepts, though based on visible unwanted and socially
unacceptable acts, are not "provable" in the sense you are trying to
claim. The fact that something is less specific is of no relevance. A
broken bone is a broken bone. How badly and where in the body matters
little to the victim or society that cares for those victims, and
untimately will likely have to carry that person and pay the price for
some vicious ignorant twit that believed in or supported spanking.
> Otherwise you have to answer the question,
> "Why shouldn't children be assaultable?"
I have a better one for you. Why are you being so stupid?
The answer to your question, pervert, lies in the answer to this
question...already answered by society: "Why shouldn't *people* be
assaultable?"
So much for your BS.
> Your second sentence also contributes little: consent is not an issue
> in this argument:
Of course it is. One classification of human can be hit, legally, if
they give consent. Another can't because they are as yet not capable of
giving INFORMED consent. Not legally. Except for the present immoral
laws that allow it.
Just as LAWS once disenfranchised women, and blacks.
> children are spanked without their consent;
Obviously. Your point does not support your next argument.
> that's
> part of the definition of a spanking.
No, it is decidedly not. Spanking is defined by the action, not the
lack or presence of consent. If someone gives another permission to
spank them, spanking itself is of no difference if that spanking is
given without consent. Except of course, for adult on adult spanking
without consent it is battery, and for an adult upon a child,
"discipline."
> Therefore it doesn't really
> matter whether they are able to give consent or not.
Yes, it very much matters. Just as all the things we do to children
with out their consent matters. Some are humane, caring, and necessary
for the child's health and safety. Battery of a child by legal sanction
is still hitting, as in spanking is hitting. One cannot spank without a
hitting action.
The only thing standing between spanking being battery is the lack of a
law banning it -- or making the current laws on assault and battery
inclusive of children, exclusive of age considerations.
It's coming. Get used to it. Folks with your filthy minded sickness are
insuring it must come.
Just as surely as apologists and slave owners brought about
emancipation.
> Jennie
Knowing that you give your child an erection by spanking (this is
obviously a perv troll attempt by you...you get off being taken
seriously) and continuing it is itself punishable NOW by law. It is
child abuse. Sexual abuse in fact, and if there is justice your child
will beat you senseless one day, and have you charged with sexual
abuse, and you'll end up in jail getting your jollies from your fellow
inmates raping you.
0:->
Jennie
> Adults plainly underestimate the amount of force they are capable of
> producing.
True; adults who intend to spank their children should find a buddy
they can practise on.
Jennie
kane_...@yahoo.com
Troll.
>
> Jennie
LLL
>he gets during a spanking.
I saw that post. From the work and reading I have done, this pairing
sexual arousal with pain/humiliation can cause lifelong problems, which
can be severe. Is it really worth it to you to take that risk? have
you no other means of discipline?
twitter...@aol.com
Go find the sex boards.
twitter...@aol.com
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Carlson LaVonne wrote:
> PaulBrozon wrote:
> > Spanking is done by about 90% of all parents,
> > so it is socially accepted.
That's irrelevent.
> The percentage is declining, but yes, by the majority
> of parents in the US, spanking remains socially acceptable.
The POINT that the EXXXPERTS are MISSING is that
parents are not taught effective parenting so they
don't NEED to rely on punishment scolding shameing
and withholding of unconditional love trust and respect
to get their fearful lying filthy obstinate children
to RESPECT their G-D like AUTHORITY.
> This doesn't make spanking children right -
But there's no viable alternatives. Parents can't
keep sending kids to their room and expect that'll
discipline them. They can't keep taking away their
toys and restricting them from their like minded
friends. Children escape and attack their parents
when they're not brought up with apupriate discipline.
> - there was a time when slavery was socially acceptable,
> as well as a denial of women's rights. Even though it
> was at a time "socially acceptable" -- things changed.
Well, perhaps that was the start of the downfall
of the Land Of The Free, eh Carlson? Women and
children should know their places. Slavery was a
constitutional right and should be respected as
such.
> > Yet, keep in mind that even Frued said spanking is sex.
Seems we're too hung up on sex and protecting
our wimmen an children's rights and defending
them from sexual abuse.
> > If someone is spanking another beyond puberty,
> > there may be a sexual stimulation associated with
> > the spanking. Probably a good reason why spanking
> > is not for children.
Spankin is the fall guy, the scape goat for
ineffective professors of behavior to debate
when they run HOWET of ideas, information and
effective non confrontational behavior modification
techniques.
> I'd say the best reason why spanking is not for
> children is because children should not be legally
> assaultable.
You can't give children RIGHTS to be treated as equals
or they'll do what the wimmen and slaves have done when
they got their rights. Perhaps it's THEM who's behind
this idiotic anti spanking crapola.
> Children are not legally able to provide
> consent, as are adults.
What child slave or woman will consent to coporal
punishment when necessary, unless they've been
pupperly TRAINED to know right from wrong, Carlson?
> An adult spanking without mutual consent
> would also be legally defined as assault.
IT STILL IS... and to PROVE IT, I'll challenge
you to a duel. If you accept, We'll both be
arrested for mutually consenting to the only
solution to the spankin issue.
So, spankin, women, children and slaves, are NOT
the issue. It's the LAWS we've created PROTECTING
them which keeps us fighting about spankin instead
of TEACHING EFFECTIVE METHODS to end fear force
intimidation and war.
But that'd be too costly and would be DISRESPECTFUL
of our government and parents.
> LaVonne
From: George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005
Subject: Re: Erections during a spanking
Jennie jcoldstr...@excite.com wrote in this message:
Jennie
People who spank can discipline children thoroughly
Jennie
From: "PaulBrozon" <paulbro...@nospam.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:28:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Erections during a spanking
Spanking is done by about 90% of all parents, so it is
socially accepted. Yet, keep in mind that even Frued
said spanking is sex. If someone is spanking another
beyond puberty, there may be a sexual stimulation
associated with the spanking.
Probably a good reason why spanking is not for children.
------------------
RIGHT. It's for soldiers as interrogation tools
condoned and taught by our governement when we
got to spank entire countries for the same reason
we debate spankin:
From: George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005
Subject: Re: Erections during a spanking
If you look at the iraqi pictures it's easy to see it
is just an acting out of the traditional ways boys were
always disciplined:
When you look at these pictures and read the accounts
of exactly what was being done in these pictures:
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/index2.htm
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm
you are looking at the pictures and reading the accounts of
exactly how children particularly boys were always disciplined.
The only difference is children traditionally were
never actually injured when being spanked and disciplined.
The iraqi case is more brutal because it is in time of war but
all the crusty old commanding officers remember how embarrassing
it was to have their pants taken off and be disciplined by being
caned on their bare backsides and slapped on their testicles
when they were young boys.
No doubt all those old men will never forget the humiliation
they felt at the mere thought of a woman knowing about how they
were disciplined. You'll notice how women were used to full
humiliating humbling effect on the iraqi men and boys.
=============
As dog trainers we have modern solutions to
such difficult problems in the 35 levels of
static like stimulation collars.
The government could just slap a collar on
every enemy citizen and punish them remotely
just like we do a bird dog when IT won't hunt.
END OF PROBLEM. NO MORE WAR. Just effective training:
Subject: Re: Male dog marking on EVERYTHING
HOWEDY mysetters,
mysetters wrote:
> Trina, I'm not sure what type dog but Craigslist
> is one site,
Craigslist is a non specific general classified
sales advertisment listing where people sell
stoves cars and dishwashers. The EXXXPERT DOG
LOVERS here recommend PLACEMENT, not classified
general sales of their beloved ethickally bred
pets.
> if its a hunting dog gundogsonline is another.
That's where dog lovers go to learn to choke and
shock their dogs, mysetters:
Dog Training Collars
"More than 30 years ago, electronic dog training collars
made their way into the dog-training scene. However,
because the first generation of electronic dog training
collars were only capable of delivering one level of
stimulation to the dog, they where appropriately nicknamed
dog training shock collars.
Recognizing the limitations of the first generation of
electric dog training collars, manufacturers worked to
refine their design. Within the last 5-10 year, the
technology of electronic dog training collars was replaced,
giving the trainer the ability to select multiple levels of
intensity from the transmitter.
This single advancement combined with customer education
has done more for the widespread acceptance of dog training
collars than any other advancement with electric dog training
collars.
If you are unfamiliar with the proper use of electric dog
training collars we recommend the Total E-Collar
Conditioning with Mike Lardy - Video or DVD."
========================
ONLY a lying dog abusing punk thug coward MENTAL
CASE would believe the INTENSITY of the "NICKNAME"
has any bearing on the levels of DENIAL, CRUELTY
STUPIDITY, and MALICE of dog abusing mental cases,
mysetters.
> Good luck.
Dog training AIN'T LUCK, dog lover.
Date: 14 Oct 2005 15:02:44 -0700
Subject: Re: One more thing the trainer said
HOWEDY alison,
Alison wrote:
> "sighthounds & siberians" <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mdgvk15t4bh9ookcl...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:07:43 +0100, "Alison"
> > <ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > That sums up a cat :)
This entire thread is INSANE. But this discussion
takes the cake.
> > True. But it Janet's case, it's just the beginning!
> > Mustang Sally>.>>
> I've been reading about Carey for some time
janet's kat carey has been DYIN from STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE just like racetrack silly had
four dogs with cancers and four with seizures:
HOWEDY racetrack silly,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:26:36 GMT, Paula
> <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:12:41 -0400, "Tee"
> ><crappol...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >> So I hope those of you following this will wish us success
> >> in teaching Joe Joe not to pee on Fancy so that we can keep
> >> him and have the happy 2-dog household we had during the
> >> first couple of weeks he was here.
>
> > I'm most happy about the tone of your post. You seem a lot
> > more relaxed about the situation and that's fantastic. I
> > don't see any need for you to feel anything but a success.
>
> > You are willing to take Joe Joe and do your best with him,
> > but if he fits better elsewhere, you are willing to let him
> > go. That is, to me, the sign of the very best kind of dog
> > person: It's about the best thing for the dog.
>
> Hear, hear. Coming in late on the latest round of Joe
> Joe peeing on Fancy, and with no specific suggestions,
You mean, other than to GET RID OF or MURDER the
dog JUST LIKE HOWE you done your own DEAD DOG when
you COULDN'T TRAIN IT, racetrack silly?
> but lots of good wishes and positive thoughts for
> the dogs and the humans.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHHAHAHHAAA!!!
> Mustang Sally
Hey, racetrack silly? HERE'S A "POSITIVE THOUGHT":
You and your mental case pals can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGgamenedMOORE.
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Dog defecates during walks
Clearly, my stating the facts is not enough for Lucy;
perhaps she needs some sort of tangible proof, or perhaps
she thinks Jerry knows what I do better than I do.
In either case, she's proven herself incapable of reason,
and therefore a waste of time.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fencing
It's astounding. We used livestock electric fence
at the bottom of our fence some years back because
of a certain digging husky with wanderlust. This
was fairly new electric fencing, the shock was mild,
said husky touched it any number of times, and I can
guarandamntee you it didn't do anything horrible to
her body or her mind.
If I live to be 100, I will never understand the
mentality of people who have no knowledge of a
subject but still feel free, apparently compelled
even, to opine on that subject.
When it's people in another country,
it's nothing short of mind-boggling.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:21:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Stop Barking Products
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0600,
Katra <K...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>"sighthounds etc." wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:50:59 -0600, Katra
>> <K...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Sorry, I don't hang out here enough anymore
> to recognize the morons... :-) Except for Jerry.
They can be difficult to recognize when they pretend
to be someone else. It must be a pretty fun game, as
both Jerry and Mikey devote a lot of time to it,
especially when one considers what busy people they are.
> Bark collars are supposed to work pretty well and a good
> one runs less han $100.00. He ought to just try one and
> see if it works. He won't be out much. <shrugs>
There is some controversy about the humane-ness of
citronella collars because dogs' noses are so sensitive.
I've tried citronella collars on our kenneled adoption
dogs, and they didn't appear to be able to figure out
the connection between their noise and the squirt.
>Or keep the dog inside.....
Now that's a pretty foolproof method of
dealing with problematic outdoor barking.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:18:01 -0500
Local: Fri,Dec 6 2002 10:18 am
Subject: Re: BTW, Who am I
I don't know that Sibes generally go home on their
own; many don't, or they wouldn't end up in shelters.
I don't know if it's coincidence that one of our
permanent Sibes did this and one of our fosters
did too. But I think Siberians *can* find their
way home, at least based on my experience, where
Greyhounds apparently usually can't.
I don't know why Greyhounds can't; I guess it
doesn't occur to them to use their noses to sniff
their way back home. Of course, Greyhounds often
are several miles away from home by the time they
stop and consider what they're doing.
In our case, it took our Siberian to find our Greyhound.
doG knows what would have happened to Matty if not for
Tasha, since he wouldn't come to us. Guess we would have
had to try darting him.
Invisible fences should not be used (except as
reinforcerment for normal-height fences ) with
northern breeds and sighthounds, period.
Sally Hennessey
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:12:56 -0500
Local: Wed,Feb 9 2005 9:12 am
Subject: Seiure land
OK, living in this house is an epileptic Greyhound
that hasn't had a seizure in 3 years, and epileptic
IG that has a seizure (sometimes GM, but inconsistent)
every couple of months or so, a non-epileptic Siberian
that has a GM seizure every year or so, and a very
badly bred Miniature Dachshund that has atypical
apparent seizure activity at irregular intervals
(but once on the same day the IG had one).
So half an hour ago, I hear strange cat howling
noises from the kitchen, and upon investigating,
there's Dolce having a tonic seizure on the kitchen
table.
It must be the house.
Mustang Sally
HOWEDY racetrack silly, you dog murderin mental case,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 11 May 2005 19:39:45 -0700, "jettjon" <jet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >First, I have tried to be extremely consistent, ensuring that
> >she defecates at the start of each walk. However, this seems to make
> >little difference. I will constantly say "No! No!" when she begins to
> >slow and give signs that she is about to "go." I've even tried
> >reinforcing with light lashes with the leash, or, in desperation,
> >open-palmed slaps. This continues unabated. Any ideas beyond simply
> >not walking this dog?
>
> Does she do this in your own yard,
The dog's behavior would be different in his yard.
> or wherever you take her for routine potty breaks?
You can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his toilet habits
JUST LIKE HOWE you can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his
tail. S-HOWENDS like this dog is MARKING with her POOP.
> If not, and if she's seen the vet recently
While it COULD be a veterinary problem it PROBABLY AIN'T.
> and been cleared of possible intestinal parasites,
What parasites would cause this behavior,
racetrack silly? Don't seem to be a SYMPTOM
of parasites.
> it could be a marking behavior.
Could be.
But is's PROBABLY a SYMPTOM of anXXXIHOWESNESS.
You can figger THAT HOWET by EXXXAMINING HOWE
the dog is being handled and trained...
> We had a particularly dominant bitch
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as a "dominant" anything.
That type of behavior is LEARNED, COPIED from their
ABUSERS.
> that would mark with poop on walks,
NO PROBLEM. ANY behavior that's CONSISTENT
REPEATABLE or PREDICTABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH
NEARLY INSTANTLY using effective non physical
scientific and psychological conditioning
techniques as taught in YOUR FREE COPY of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >
> to the point that she was empty and her
> butt was orange.
S-HOWENDS like ANXXXIHOWESNESS, not "MARKING."
> Slapping and "lashing" her are likely
> to be ineffective at best.
You think so, racetrack silly?
> Try ignoring what she's doing
THAT AIN'T gonna TRAIN the dog not to
do that noMOORE, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> and continuing to walk when she
> starts to slow down or squat.
She won't move, racetrack silly.
He'd have to DRAG and CHOKE her.
> Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:27:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Bullmastiff bullies my Staffordshire Bull Terrier
That is just *exactly* what I was going to say. I had
one aggressive female (Dal) and a dominant female that
would die before she'd back down (Sibe). We tried just
about everything, and had we kept them both, I am convinced
that one would have killed the other. These were fights
that caused injuries every time.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:11:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Mojo,Luke and Taffy update
If we had known that the vet was going to treat it as
MMM regardless of the biopsy results, we'd never have
put Tasha through that.
Specialists are great and all that, but I think he did
a lot of tests just because he could. That internist
is gone from our vet's practice now, and at first I
was sorry, but now I'm not so sure.
Yesterday I took Abby the kitty in because I thought
she might be hyperthyroid. She isn't, but she probably
has IBD.
I asked the vet how they'd treat it, and he said that
if the specialist were there he'd scope her and then
they'd treat with prednisone. Since the specialist
isn't there, he's going to treat with prednisone
because she has the symptoms (she's also 15, and I
wouldn't want to put her through endoscopy).
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:57:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Fear aggression
While most of my dogs are well-behaved when left
alone unconfined, my Whippets are not, and it is
simply not possible to sufficiently proof' my home
from dogs that can jump baby gates and get onto
tables and counters when no one is home.
No, of course they don't do that when we're
home, but they sure do when we're gone.
They aren't really destructive, though my female that enjoys
chewing up plastic, but they're very food oriented, and their
definition of food differs from ours, so they're crated for
their own protection. I've found crate training to be very
useful when a dog is ill or injured and needs to be confined
for medical purposes; and this happens more often than you
might think.
I hate to spoil the image of cruel Americans locking up their
dogs in boxes all day, but, well, it's BS, so there you go.
To the OP: it's very difficult to say what's going on with
your dog without observing him. I've had several very fearful
dogs, one of which had some minor fear aggression when she felt
absolutely trapped, but this resolved on its own as she became
more confident.
If there are specific things which trigger Sunny's fear aggression,
you could work on desensitizing her to those things, but in general,
I think you need either a behaviorist or a very good trainer who
deals with aggression problems.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:43:17 -0500
Subject: Re: New dog, need reassurance
The owner is the critical thing though - - you set the rules,
you decide what's acceptable, your attitude conveys that to
your dogs.
We currently have two males that really don't get along.
To minimize stress for animals and humans, they are kept separate.
No amount of training or alpha attitude is going to change
how they feel about each other, but they won't go after each
other if DH or I is/am present.
They will we're not around, though.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: greyhound <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10:07 -0500
Subject: Re: your dog's breed
I don't know about yours, but all the Siberians we've
had maintain some degree of aloofness. They're affectionate,
sleep on the bed and all that, but they're always independent.
When a Sibe gets clingy, it's a good indication that something's
wrong. As ours age, though, they become a bit less independent.
A couple of weeks ago, Tasha, who was on the bed, crawled over
and curled up right next to me, almost on top of me, and cuddled.
She was trembling a bit, and I thought she might be about to have
another seizure, but the moment passed. I imagined calling the
vet: "I need to bring Tasha in because she's cuddling."
How bittersweet that you and Duncan bonded more toward the end
of his life than in the years before. He always knew who he
loved and trusted, and when he felt himself failing, you're what
he wanted.
Hope you're feeling better.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:54:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Injured By Dogs????
There are some dogs that will never bite a human under any
circumstances, and some that will bite a human when in pain.
Tasha is apparently one of the latter - - she bit my hand
when I closed her paw in a baby gate - - and I don't think
any less of her because of it, nor do I consider it a
reflection on her training. The incident showed us that
that type of baby gate wasn't the best design for use
with dogs, and we got rid of it.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:01:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Dog fight, dog bite, aaaiiiieeeeee
Heh. Probably confuses the dogs, too. I'll have
to keep that in mind if I have to break up a fight
again. Keeping calm is always recommended, but
usually harder than actually breaking up the fight.
The fights we've had in the last few years are
nothing compared to the ones between the Sibe
and Dal (one of the worst things about their
fights was that once you separated them, you
had to hold onto them and be *very*careful,
because if they got half a chance, they'd
go after each other again.
The Dal always started it, but Tasha, as you might
guess, never backed down. Anyway, it's easier to
stay calm now because I know the dogs don't have
death as a goal, as they seemed to.
Staying calm also has a lot to do with the dogs'
behavior when you try to break up the fight.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 08:30:40 -0500
Subject: Re: my brother's dog
Assuming you could have found someone who knew what
they were doing. When the problems with Justy and
Tasha started, we contacted everyone we could think
of, including the Dal rescue people and trainers.
There weren't any behaviorists around, but someone,
I don't remember who, referred us to one in another
state who did phone consultations!
Of course, that was of limited value. In retrospect,
I still think that situation was unsalvageable. But
we sure learned a lot about multi-dog interactions,
dog aggression and managing less severe fighting
situations.
It was months before hearing a dog growl
didn't make my heartbeat race.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats
>> >but I'm inclined to believe that the "Wits' End Dog Training
>> >Manual" did have something to do with it, too. :-)
>> which exercises did you find most helpful?
> You know, what I found as most helpful were the magic
> words "Good boy, Clyde" and "Good girl, Bonnie". The
> dogs do ANYTHING if I just utter these words. I suspect
> that they are secretly reading Jerry's posts to rpdb. <g>
>> >for me, it was the best thing that I could wish for - no
>> >violence at all,
>> i've been playing at training my own dogs since i was 3-4
>> years old (probably longer, but my memory has its limits).
>> in any event, it was long before i'd ever heard of Mr. Howe.
>> somehow, without the benefit of Mr. Howe's "superior" methods,
>> i managed not to treat any of my dogs violently.
>> > very easy to apply, and best of all, always gives
>> > wonderful results.
>> that's untrue. one of his favorite methods (using a shake can
>> as positive punishment) does not work with either of my dogs.
>> one ignores it (he's not bothered by loud, sudden noises) and
>> the other loses all control of her bowels and bladder when
>> startled by sudden noises/movement. so, like most training
>> tools, the shake can may vary from benignly ineffective to
>> downright abusive, depending on the situation.
> This is nothing at all like what Jerry says. Really,
> shelly, why not READ the manual?
I've read the thing (I refuse to call it a manual), and I can tell
you, based on experience with high prey breeds, that "good boy" and
"good girl" are not particularly useful when redirecting high prey
drive.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."
Sally Hennessey
"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."
Sally Hennessey
I didn't mean to suggest that we don't love our
poop-eaters; of course, we do. If we were on
that show (The Secret Shame...), we would be
seen frantically dodging leaping Whippets trying
to plant kisses as close as possible to our mouths.
And I will admit that the night Robin barfed up poop,
he spent the night in his crate, not in bed with us.
Just couldn't chance a recurrence.
Sally Hennessey
Sighthounds etc." <greypigho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:2oo30vco39kba31kf...@4ax.com...
Dalmatian that would position himself behind
the Greyhounds and catch...Being a Dal, he
was sometimes a little harder to love to begin
with.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
alison the congenital idiot continues:
> and I think Janet is amazing that she copes
> because it must get intolerable especially
> with the peeing on the sofa
janet's kat pisses all over her HOWES because
janet is an animal abuser like racetrack silly
and yourself, alison.
> and I think Carey is fortunate that she's Janet's cats.
That's HOWE COME you can't post here nomore, alison.
> Alison
janet's Kat's Scat Mat -
"Undiagnosable, Untreatable Problems Are
Incredibly Frustrating. Thanks For Hanging
In There. Your Comrade In Not-Knowing-What-
The-Hell-Is-Wrong-With -Her-Cat,
HOWEDY People!
"Undiagnosable, Untreatable Problems Are Incredibly
Frustrating. Thanks For Hanging In There. Your Comrade
In Not-Knowing-What-The-Hell-Is-Wrong-With -Her-Cat,
Jennifer"
HOWEDY jennifer,
Jennifer wrote:
> crystal h via CatKB.com wrote:
> > Generally it seems that everyone on this board is
> > against using the "spray bottle"...
Of curse!
> > But if the spray bottle is as abusive as listed
> > on these boards, what other options are there?
Don't pay no never mind to them FREAKS who ARE AFRAID
of just tellin their critters "NO!" on accHOWENT of
they THINK it'll SCARE and MAKE THEIR PETS NEUROTIC.
> Eh? I've seen the opposite.
Naaaah?
> Lots of people on rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> recommend the use of a spray bottle,
That so? Mostly it's SHOCK DEVICES and vinegar
and lemon juice in the water. And settin MHOWES
traps (under newspaper so it won't HURT them)
and shock pads for their kats to step on when
they climb on their furniture to PISS and SHIT
on it, like HOWE janet boss does for her DECLAWED
FEAR AGGRESSIVE DEATHLY ILL KATS.
> though I personally use a can of compressed
> air because my cats hate the noise
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
> and it doesn't get water everywhere.
That's kindly of you, know HOWE kats HATE
being squirted and intimidated with WATER.
> Why would anyone think a spritz of water is abusive?
Of curse!
> --
> Jennifer
Well, COMPARED TO THIS, water is a TREAT.
Here's The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME AT IT's BEAST:
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 24 Feb 2004 16:08:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Russian Blue running away - help!
> From: "Gail" g...@earthlink.net
> I wonder if a scat mat will help. It is a mat that is
> plugged in and emits a mild shock when the animal steps
> on it. I don't know if people stepping on it will cause
> the mat harm, though.
> Below is a link to it. I used them near bookcases when
> one of my cats started urinating there. They were great.
> Gail
A scat mat directly in front of the door, can be stepped
OVER by the humans, but teach the cat to avoid the door area.
I think it's a great solution.
BTW they can run on a 9V battery, so no wires are needed.
They are fixtures on my leather furniture to stop kitties
from peeing there!
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Electric shock pad
On 8 Aug 2005 11:03:01 -0700, "mystro"
<highpur...@gmail.com>, clicked
their heels and said:
> I'm trying to find a link or resource for purchasing
> training shock pad,a pad that gives a slight shock
> using flashlight batteries and perfectly harmless and
> from what little I've read..quite effective.
> Help :)
it's called a Scat Mat. Google that and you'll find several sources.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.co m
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ bestfriendsobedience/album
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 03 Nov 2003 19:25:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Keeping cat out of room.
>From: "Iso" nos...@hotmail.com
>The mats, regardless of what you think WORK and are HARMLESS.
Just another opinion that Scat Mats are pretty useful tools.
Rather than have my youngest cat continue to ruin my
leather furniture, we have Scat Mats on the sofa and
chair.
When they are off, and we're sitting on that furniture,
Skip is allowed on and in our laps, etc. When the mats
are on, I can be happy with the fact that he's not
urinating on the leather!
The static charge isn't much at all - it's a deterrent,
and a good one.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040512151017...@mb-m19.aol.com...
> Leah wrote:
> > Ian Dunbar has me convinced that (1) a dog
> > who lunges and bites and doesn't even HURT
> > is not a dangerous dog,
> Interesting. I just read someone else's take
> on the same seminar, and let's say they had
> a very different opinion than yours.
> I also disagree with his opinion. dangerous
> comes in many forms.
> PLEASE Leah - read, listen and don't jump
> on any "I am goD" bandwagons. Take
> all information for what it is - opinion.
> Janet Boss
> http://bestfriendsdogobedience .com/
> http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfr iendsobedience
From: "Jennifer" <msjh...@gmail.com>
Date: 13 May 2005 07:25:15 -0700
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration
Janet B wrote:
> Even when the answers are bad, I like ANSWERS. Where
> my little Carey-kitty is involved, we never seem to have
> any. She's been "sick" for the last 3 years and we've
> never been able to figure out just what's going on with her.
> I'm trying to not add up the costs, as they just keep mounting.
I completely agree. Undiagnosable, untreatable problems are
incredibly frustrating. Thanks for hanging in there.
Your comrade in not-knowing-what-the-hell-is
-wrong-with-her-cat, Jennifer
BWEEEEAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
janet's kats are DYING from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:30:03 -0400
Subject: diagnosis frustration
Even when the answers are bad, I like ANSWERS. Where my little
Carey-kitty is involved, we never seem to have any. She's been
"sick" for the last 3 years and we've never been able to figure
out just what's going on with her. I'm trying to not add up the
costs, as they just keep mounting.
Carey is an almost 12 year old tortie with numerous problems over
the 3 years, related to behavior, urinary issues, weight loss, and
early on, paralysis as well. We've had tests out the wazoo, have
seen standard general practice vets as well as a neurologist, tried
various medications, and we still have no real answers.
I'm hoping those come soon, but the preliminary aren't great choices.
After raising her Elavil level to combat inappropriate urination, she
tore her ACL. That appears to be healing slowly. She's been at the
vet numerous times in the last few weeks and we started seeing a
different vet, closer to home this week.
That was after she projectile vomited 2 meals, and was passing bloody
urine, on Monday. After a few small puddles of that, her urine was
not bloody and she was back to eating without problem. All day
Tuesday was fine. Saw vet on Wednesday, and x-rayed her bladder, and
embarked on more tests (last full bloodwork was last August). She has
a HUGE palpable thyroid gland, yet her thyroid tests (free T-4 still
waiting) have all been normal. She weighs 7# and is skin and bones,
and has been for quite a long time. She eats well (1 full can of
Trader Joe's cat food and 1/2 can Fancy Feast daily) and plays with
the other cat, loves on the dogs, etc.
5 minutes after coming home from the vet on Wednesday, she squatted
on the floor and let loose a large puddle of bloody urine. No blood
in urine since. Her urinalysis shows no issues.
Her kidneys look fine on x-rays, but her test results show renal
insufficiency, but not failure.
We're still waiting for more test results, but so far,
we have no answers. Does anyone have any thoughts?
--
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration
On Fri, 13 May 2005 08:57:31 -0500, kaeli
<tiny_...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm sorry to hear Carey has been so sick.
> My first thought was not a good one -- cancer.
Thanks. Unfortunately, that's what my vet has said as well.
Having dealt with it with a few pets now, it didn't hit me
quite like the ton of bricks as the first time I heard that
diagnosis, but it still is hard to hear that it's a potential.
The last 2 days, she's been galloping and eating and acting
like "hey - I'm ok - no problem - don't worry about me!".
She's a tough little cat, but obviously not a well one.
She's adored by all beings in this household, so we'll do
whatever we need to for her as we find out (or not) more.
Right now she's curled up with her kitty-"brother" and
seems happy as she can be.
--
Janet B
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Nov 2003 21:35:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Declawing: glad I took the time
Kaeli wrote:
> Some of us feel that declawing a cat is tantamount
> to torture. You don't torture something you profess
> to love. Period. You don't even take the chance that
> it might be tortured. Period.
I fully understand that (and the analogy of other groups
who feel strongly about issue "x"). I think there is a
very, very large group of people who choose or think about
declawing, do so not because they want to take a chance
that the animal they love may be tortured, but because
of a variety of experiences/advice that says it's an ok
thing to do (not torture in general - declawing!).
Take the neighbor's attitude ("just" a cat? NO cat is
"just" anything! ;-D). One shared by many, to some degree.
Lot's of priorities. Interesting thread on RPDB recently
about people willing to die/put themselves in the line of
fire for their dogs.
It was interesting to read the range of thoughts on such
a thing. Obviously, people give different weight to
different beings and things.
While I am their caregiver and friend, I don't put
pets in the same category as humans.
I declawed my first cat, because my experiences said that
is what you did with an indoor cat (had lived with many
cats owned by others). She used her claws inappropriately
as a kitten, and my meager attempts at clawing devices
didn't work, so I thought nothing of it.
Since she exhibited no obvious ill effects, my experience
(and hers as far as anyone could tell) was a positive one.
Knowing more of what it entailed, I chose not to declaw my
next cat (owned in tandem with cat #1 and then cat #3).
He was an adult acquisition and I knew such a thing would
be more difficult for him, but also, he was very trainable
and I didn't even consider it.
Cat #3 was a claw maniac, and due to my experiences with
Cat #1, I went ahead with a declaw. Once again, I have
never seen any backlashes due to the operation, and I
would put up with anything if I'm lucky enough to have
her for many more years, which isn't all that likely.
She's doing well on meds currently, and maintaining,
if not gaining any weight.
Once I was ready for cat #4, I knew that I wouldn't choose
this route again. Not because of gory pictures, not because
of scare tactics about what my declawed cat would become,
but because I realized that more tools could make the
difference and it wasn't something that I really wanted
to do.
I didn't want to cause a kitten pain (even though others
didn't seem to experience any!), nor any physical or
emotional problems. So, I have a fully clawed cat who
pees on things - oh well! ;-D He's a wonderful cat in
every other way!
> If you love your furniture more than your cat's right
> to not be mutilated, you are going to draw some venom
> in a cat newsgroup.
Again, why is it either/or?
Can't someone value their belongings and their cat too?
I choose to protect my furniture with Sticky Paws (I forgot
they were there - probably time to take them off - it's been
almost 2 years with no interest!) and with Scat Mats (not
from claws but from urine).
Some folks posting here think that's a horrible thing to do.
People who have obviously never felt a Scat Mat! But balloons,
snappy trainers, etc are recommended. A lot of contradictory
thoughts here, so I can't say that it's all rational.
Passion rarely is though - and I actually appreciate
that for the most part!
It's obvious that each one of us has our own limits.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 23 Jan 2004 21:21:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Protecting leather furniture
> But would a scat mat keep a cat from clawing
> the side of the couch?
>--
>~kaeli~
no - it's only good for the pee problem!
Never showed any interest in clawing, and
"launch" marks disappeared easily, as good
leather "heals" itself.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 12:10:19 GMT
Subject: a few frustrations - a little long.
Mostly venting, but any thoughts are welcome!
#1 - Skipjack. 1.5 y.o. neutered male blue tabby.
Incredibly sweet and affectionate, sleeps against me
all night, on my lap every moment he can be. Eats well
(Solid Gold dry, various brands of canned - small amounts -
not much interest), uses his litter box, only scratches
his tree and a few mats that have been approved, and is
a very nice cat. Let's anyone carry him around forever
and is very social. Gets along well with 2 dogs and
another cat. But................
He also urinates on other things. Sofas (where we sit) -
frequency of maybe every few months. Wires. Phone or
speaker wires (thin), that are at floor level. Scrapes
around at them and urinates on them on hard surface flooring.
Maybe once every few weeks. Dog beds and dog's sofa
(I have baby mattress pads on these, under the covers
in order to just have to do wash!) - once every few
weeks. Guest bed - used or freshly washed sheets.
Full laundry basket - random, if available, not often.
Anything that can go in the wash has gotten soaked and
washed in hot water, Oxyclean added. Anything not machine
washable gets a thorough cleaning with Simple Solution Cat
Urine Cleaner (which I found seems to work better than Nature's
Miracle for this).
Feliway has been used to varying success.
Most recently, he urinated on a sofa cushion within a
few hours of spraying it with Feliway.
I have 2 cats, 2 litterboxes. One crystals, which he prefers,
one scoopable, which my other cat prefers. Both are kept
incredibly clean. No problem using the box, even when workmen
were in the room - I see him use it regularly and tell him what
a good kitty he is for doing so.
A little history - when he came home at 5 months old last
February (2002), he had a bad case of the squirts and managed
to fly around with liquid poop being released all over my sofas.
We cleared that up, washed everything thoroughly (sofas have
2 sets of machine washable slipcovers, and the leather sofa
he christened has a scat mat on it now), and thought we had
conquered any problems.
He is quite the perfect cat except for this issue and it's
very random as to where and when he decides to urinate.
I'm not happy with the situation of course, and can't quite
figure out what's going on. He doesn't have a UTI and has
normal elimination patterns as far as frequency.
He does not do this in my bedroom, the other guest bedroom,
the kitchen or dining room.
If you've read this far, I have another cat and problem! ;-D
#2 Carey. Almost 10 y.o. spayed tortie. Neurological problems
(probabl brain tumor, other things ruled out). Has been on Pred
and Valium for a bit over a year, and has dropped from a bit over
9# to less than 7# (all thyroid tests came back normal).
She's a happy and sweet cat who bugs me for her pills every
morning. She has a problem with raised (even happy) voices
where she attacks the dogs. I've talked about that here before.
The dogs are saints and have never reacted adversely to her
doing this. I can pick her up during these episodes and she
doesn't attack me, but is hell bent on trying to attack the
dogs. There have been times where the dogs noises have
triggered this. She gets along well with the younger cat.
She adores the dogs otherwise, and that's really the problem
more than the attacking (we've all kind of learned to live
with that!).
She obsesses over them.
When she was a kitten, she nursed on my Golden Retriever
so much that she needed surgery for hair blockage. She
ceased the behavior until she was 5.5 and when another
dog died, then she resumed.
She transferred that to another dog after the Golden died
1.5 years later, and now it's just increased to a difficult
level.
She does this to both of my dogs, mostly at nighttime or
whenever they are napping in my bedroom. She will do it
to the one dog in other locations as well. During the day,
it's not so bad.
The dogs look confused but tolerate it, even though she's
latched onto them with her mouth and rear claws. She
attaches herself to various parts of their bodies.
Nighttime is the problem - we're not getting any sleep!
Skipjack sleeps on the bed, the dogs sleep on their dog
beds or her favorite dog sleeps under the bed.
She will not leave her alone!
Poor Lucy gets up and leaves the room, only for Carey
to follow her, and she winds up pacing around, which
keeps us awake. She just isn't deterred. She can be
lifted off, tossed off, grumbled at, but she will not
leave the dogs alone until she's good and ready.
The only rooms that can be closed off are either across
the hall or under our room. She's a very vocal cat and
will meow like crazy if confined away from everyone else,
so that won't help sleep.
Any thoughts of novel things to try with either of these
kitties? I adore them but their habits are driving me
up the wall at times!
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
> > My dogs are not human children wearing
> > fur- they are DOGS.
They're DUMB ANIMALS they HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A
Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all
handlers and all dogs in all fields or
utilities and behaviors all over the Whole
Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.
2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
thou hast heard, with which the servants of
the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother
and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((
|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''
Meow
/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)
/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
R. Steve Walz
>
> HOWEDY Carlson,
>
> Carlson LaVonne wrote:
> > PaulBrozon wrote:
> > > Spanking is done by about 90% of all parents,
> > > so it is socially accepted.
>
> That's irrelevent.
>
> > The percentage is declining, but yes, by the majority
> > of parents in the US, spanking remains socially acceptable.
>
> The POINT that the EXXXPERTS are MISSING is that
> parents are not taught effective parenting so they
> don't NEED to rely on punishment scolding shameing
> and withholding of unconditional love trust and respect
> to get their fearful lying filthy obstinate children
> to RESPECT their G-D like AUTHORITY.
>
> > This doesn't make spanking children right -
>
> But there's no viable alternatives.
You're a lying weaseling piece of shit, of course there are, you
only lie like this to justify your sick desire to abuse someone
smaller like you were abused, so that you can finally convince
yourself you're a real adult, when you AREN'T!
> Parents can't
> keep sending kids to their room and expect that'll
> discipline them. They can't keep taking away their
> toys and restricting them from their like minded
> friends. Children escape and attack their parents
> when they're not brought up with apupriate discipline.
--------------------------------
Nonsense, children raised by shitheads who abuse and lord over them
will hate their parents' fucking guts, and rightly so, but children
raised by parents who respect them and treat them as equals will
find in their parents fast friends for life, people they would
never wish to harm.
> > - there was a time when slavery was socially acceptable,
> > as well as a denial of women's rights. Even though it
> > was at a time "socially acceptable" -- things changed.
>
> Well, perhaps that was the start of the downfall
> of the Land Of The Free, eh Carlson?
------------------
There wasn't any "Free", just the rich and privileged and their
slaves, their slave wives and their slave children.
We're now changing-out that shit.
> Women and
> children should know their places. Slavery was a
> constitutional right and should be respected as
> such.
---------------------
You have just proved that you are Nazi human shit deserving of death.
Democracy was invented to destroy fascist feudal shit like you.
Steve
No More Retail
DON"T FEED THE TROLLS
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
No More Retail wrote:
> Why is it that people feel the need to respond to a troll?
You got some seriHOWES mental problems.
> all you do is give them ammunition to use back.
INDEEDY.
> And when people respond to a troll why do they
> always have to repost the trolls message instead
> of sniping it.
Steve was supportive of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
message, no more retail. That message bein, that
you and your animal and child abusing punk thug
coward mental case pals are about to be identified
exposed and discredited and laws will be passed
protecting society from Nazis like you.
> A simple little message for troll responders WE
> HAVE KILL FILED THESE IDIOTS, WE DON"T WANT TO
> READ THEIR POST AND HERE IS THE BIGGEST THING
> TO REMEMBER DON"T FEED THE TROLLS
That's what Hitler done, ain't it, no more retail.
> Kill file them and get on with your life
You can't post here nomore.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
HOWEDY Poseur,
>From: Poseur <juliocasten...@yahoo.com>
>Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:18:50 GMT
>Subject: Puppy not eating..Vet says he's ok
> I know this question gets asked every couple days
> (I've Google searched)
Yeah. Dogs kats kids and SP-HOWES GET intestinal /
digestive upset from fear force intimidationg
withhodling attention affection and so called rewards.
> Westie. Almost 6 mos.
A dog is a dog, poseur.
>Voracious when I got him at 10 wks.
It usually takes just WON week to RUIN a new puppy.
> Started getting a bit listless and barely eating at
> about 4 mos. Had hookworms. Treated it. He was fine.
No, he was fine pryor to you lockin IT in a box and
ignoring his cries and offering and withholding bribes
attention rewards and affection.
> Started again about a week ago. Tried to entice him
> by mixing liver and other treats in. Got some of that
> Red Barn rolled stuff that he ate first time around.
Your dog isn't havin a DIET problem, he's UNHAPPY.
Your dog is FAILING TO THRIVE becaused you're an
ABUSER.
> Not interested.
Your dog got The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> Took him to the vet Friday.
Your vet CAN'T CURE The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> No worms.
You are MISHANDLING your dog and THAT'S HOWE COME
he's DYIN SLOWLY, Poseur.
> Had only gained 0.2 lbs over the previous month or so
> (10.9). Says she can't find anything wrong with him on
> exam.
Your dog is DYING because you abuse him.
> She palpated his belly pretty good.
There's NO SYMPTOMS of The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> No tenderness at all. Said his bowels felt a little "gassy."
THAT'S The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> Figured he's just a chip off the old block.
THAT'S THE PUPPY WIZARD'S SYNDROME.
> She fed him some "bland" canned stuff there.
That's idiocy.
> He ate it but not the way a hungry puppy does.
> After the first go round, went back to kibble (Nutro Max).
Commercial dog food is GARBAGE.
> He was eating it fine until recently. Got a box
> of Bil-Jac at Petsmart last night. He ate it well.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
>Today, almost nothing. He's eaten barely 1/2 cup today.
YOUR DOG IS DYING BECAUSE YOU ABUSE HIM.
> My daughter and I love this dog immensely.
YOU'RE MURDERIN YOUR DOG.
> Great little guy.
YOU HURT AND INTIMIDATE HIM.
> I'm very worried.
YOU'RE A PATHETIC MENTAL CASE.
>Anyone have any experience with this?
EVERYWON HERE GOT THE SAME PROBLEM.
>Some reassurance or even brutal truth.
YOU'RE MURDERIN YOUR DOG.
>I want to hang with him for 12 to 15 years.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
Poseur wrote:
> "buzzsaw" <t-...@comcast.net> wrote
> in news:1127249859.801313.58920
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I would like to begin using one of this type of collars.
> > I know the sporn works on the front legs and the gentle
> > leader is for the nose.
>
> I got a sporn for my sled-dog-like 6 year old Westie.
> It was like a miracle. A pleasure to walk her. Only problem
> is it doesn't stop her from balking behind when she doesn't
> want to go. Depends on what the problem is.
>
> I think the Sporn is more of a "quick fix" and the Gentle
> Leader/Halti can be effective for actual training. I think.
THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG GOT The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor dermer pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
HOWEDY People,
Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.
A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.
The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.
The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.
They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.
It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.
One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
Even Skinner understood this!
And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.
Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
Meow
/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
IT AIN'T PRETTY.
<{@); ~ } >
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@HushMail.Com wrote:
> HOWEDY no more retail,
>
> No More Retail wrote:
> > Why is it that people feel the need to respond to a troll?
>
> You got some seriHOWES mental problems.
You are unreal. EVERYONE has mental problems, but the only one who
really is sick in the head...YOU.
Do you try to offload your sick head on others in order to make you
feel better?
NO ONE IN R.P.D.B is mentally ill...EXCEPT YOU.
WHY don't you choose to talk like an adult? For once? Every time you
make a post you continue to make a fool of yourself.
Just talk like a grownup for once.
ThePupp...@animail.net
No More Retail wrote:
> Why is it that people feel the need to respond to a troll
You're the TROLL, no more retail.
> all you do is give them ammunition to use back.
INDEED? If you READ Steve's post you'll SEE he's
got the SAME BELIEFS The Amazing Puppy Wizard got.
> And when people respond to a troll
You're the TROLL, no more retail.
> why do they always have to repost the trolls
> message instead of sniping it.
On accHOWENT of they get furiHOWES, no more retail.
> A simple little message for troll responders WE
> HAVE KILL FILED THESE IDIOTS,
That so, no more retail?
> WE DON"T WANT TO READ THEIR POST
INDEED, on accHOWENT of it EMBARRASSES YOU TO DEATH.
> AND HERE IS THE BIGGEST THING TO REMEMBER
HOWE COME you're a COWARD, no more retail?
> DON"T FEED THE TROLLS
You're the TROLL, no more retail.
> Kill file them and get on with your life
Not likely, no more retail, no so long as abusers
like yourself are runnin abHOWET loose.
--Marshall
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
--Marshall Dermer
=====================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
===========
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HOWEDY People,
NO PUNISHMENT.
Fondly, Dr. Von
Is Jerry a nut?
Works like a charm.
Nice side benefit there.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
Even Skinner understood this!
================================
----------------------------------
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
Meow
/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
IT AIN'T PRETTY.
<(@}; ~ } >
ThePupp...@animail.net
Punishment Deranges Behavior.
punt...@gmail.com
- blinfold him (so his skin iss more sensible to the touch).
- backlash him with a belt.
- slap him across the face.
- scratch his torso with your long nails.
- bellypunch him.
- have him to take cold showers (aside from temperature, it´s supossed to make the strokes feel harder).
- have him masturbate right before the spanking.
- if he has a girlfriend, have her girlfriend to watch the punishment
- spank his genitals right after cumming. That´s peculiarly painful. It even keeps you from masturbate for a while after the punishment.
- If he lasts too much to cum in order to delay his suffering, have his girlfriend masturbating him frantically in front of her, and when he is cumming told her to retire her hands and smack his genitals, giving him a ruined orgasm.
In my experience, the last one is the method that best removes the sexual component of the spanking.
punt...@gmail.com
"Making a spanking humiliating for any particular person means that you have to focus on what that person finds humiliating. If someone is fastidiously clean, they need to be shown to be dirty, for instance. For a teenager, it means you need to play off their fears and especially those fears surrounding body image, social acceptance, and their likely very confusing sexuality. Remember that embarrassment is the psychological feeling of wanting to hide a fault or trait. Humiliation is the sociological experience of having others notice, comment or otherwise negatively draw attention to real or imagined faults, traits or characteristics.In all of this, one needs to be subtle. The spanking is the direct assault; the humiliation is a glancing blow. Think of that time when someone pointed out a stain on your shirt after you spilled on yourself at lunch. Their intent was merely to comment on a fact or perhaps be helpful but you internalized the message to mean that your were clumsy and unkempt. Let the imagination run.That said, a teenager is going to be very body conscious so, of course, they should be naked. My favorite justification for nudity is that the spanking ritual is about purification of revealed sins where sin is the body revealed when clothes are removed. Few comments are required. Perhaps a, “you look so grown up,” or “wouldn’t think we would have to spank someone so grown up anymore.” Really, all that is needed is to let the eyes linger on key body parts for just a moment too long.Playing off the teenage fears of being socially damaged is frighteningly easy. The mere fear that what is happening would be found out is enough. The spanking should involve a lengthy ritual involving being paraded naked through the home to the place of punishment that is far from the most private location. There should be constant fear of not just the spanking itself but that it might not remain a secret. The longer the ritual (go get undressed and come back, let me finish this chore, fetch the spoon, stand in the corner and think about what you did,…) the more opportunity for discovery and the more humiliating the experience.Lastly, one does not have to sexually assault the teenager to play off their insecurities around their sexuality. Anyone that has passed through puberty will be conflicted about their genitalia and erogenous zones. The goal here is to merely toy with that confusion.Keep the genitals displayed as much as possible and when they aren’t displayed, allow for stimulation with the careful placement of pillows, towels, arm rests, or other objects against which the young person can possibly grind. Then, it comes down to merely commenting, “enjoying this, I see,” followed by a few prudish tsk-tsk sounds.It is, of course, a trap. Remember first that spanking will create blood flow to the buttocks and genitals causing reactions similar to those of arousal and which, conveniently, can facilitate arousal (and erect penis is more sensitive than when flaccid, for instance). Spank more gently when you suspect that the teenager is being stimulated so that they can experience arousal. Then, call attention to that and redouble your spanking efforts as you feign anger and disappointment. If male, reposition them after they achieve an erection so that it is prominently visible (standing, bent over a counter, on back/legs up diaper position). Young women are trickier but there are more subtle signs of arousal: lubrication, clitoral/nipple erection, vocalizations. However, regardless of whether there is or isn’t arousal doesn’t entirely matter; ask if there is or speculate that she is aroused regardless.The idea here is that you want the teenager to have a sexual experience but you want to pretend that it is inappropriate and that you completely didn’t intend for them to feel that way. The ultimate humiliation would be if they achieved an orgasm during the spanking but it is enough that after the spanking, they be given some time alone in private to satisfy their erotic needs. In other words, any time a teenager is spanked, an orgasm should occur during or shortly after it happens.I feel that the strong sexual response should itself not be punished unless the orgasm or ejaculation occurs during the spanking in which case, the spanker should again feign disgust, disappointment, and anger as an excuse to spank harder and faster, you know, because he made mess or wasn’t appreciating the spanking. Be sexually positive but perhaps judgmental about time, place, and context. Comments like, “glad we got that out of the way,” “maybe now you will appreciate your spanking,” or “oh, what a mess,” cut to the bone. Add a little ritual around cleaning up after an accident or preparing for one “just in case.”All of this, of course, will definitely traumatize a teenager. Much of it is part of the storyline behind my spanking fetish not because any of this happened to me but because I was and am deathly afraid of this or the non-spanking/nudity/sexuality equivalent."
https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-position-can-a-teenager-get-humiliation-by-spanking