Pagan Fiction
Arthur Hagen
> Howdy all.
<snip>
> In the past year or so Peter and I have discovered the works of Charles
> de Lint, who must be one of the foremost in modern fantasy using
> ancient, mythological/sacred themes. What I love about his work is the
> way he melds modern and ancient, drawing all the threads of his story
> into one related pattern. His books are full of real magic, power and
> beauty.'Greenmantle' is a clever melding of a 'mob' thriller and the
> deep sexual magic of Pan (Goatboy'd like this one!), 'Yarrow' deals
> with the Dweller On The Threshold, 'Moonheart' revolves around the
> ancient Otherworld and a house which straddles both worlds...Then there
> are his Native American themes in titles like 'Spiritwalk' and 'Savah'.
> His stuff is just so powerful.
>
> Oh there's an idea...Can anyone lay their hands on a copy of 'Jack The
> Giantkiller' by de Lint for me? We have 'Drink Down The Moon' which I
> believe is a sequel of sorts?
You forgot to mention 'The Little people', which I believe is de Lint's
best novel, and one of the best novels I've ever read. Perhaps because I
play the fiddle and can identify with the musical references in it.
> Well, that's all I can say off the cuff just now. Anyone want to jump
> in?
Other "pagan"-related litterature that could be worth reading:
Jack Dann & Jack C. Haldemann II: 'Echoes of Thunder'
Short futuristic Sci-Fi with Mohawks, medicine men and space stations.
Donald Stephenson: 'Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the unbeliever'
Dark fantasy - can teach a lot about subjective realities and
definitions of magic.
Orson Scott Card: 'The Seventh Son'
18th/19th century USA as it could have been if witchcraft had been
widely accepted and available.
Dennis Wheatley: 'The Devil rides out' (and several other books).
Black magic. Most rituals and deities are accurately described, but...
Robert Anton Wilson: 'Illuminatus chronicles'.
Freemasonry/rosicrucianism with a twist.
Abdul Alhazred: 'The Necronomicon'
Tell me if you get hold of a copy...
Blessings,
*Art
Sharon L. Barber
: Howdy all.
: Just thought I'd have a bash at starting a new thread since
: I'm fed up with fundie weirdos and long discussions on which diety has
: the largest dick and so on and so forth... (yawn). So, since we touched
: on Pagan Films, how about Pagan Fiction?
Sounds good to me!
: In the past year or so Peter and I have discovered the works of Charles
: de Lint, who must be one of the foremost in modern fantasy using
: ancient, mythological/sacred themes. What I love about his work is the
: way he melds modern and ancient, drawing all the threads of his story
: into one related pattern. His books are full of real magic, power and
: beauty.'Greenmantle' is a clever melding of a 'mob' thriller and the
: deep sexual magic of Pan (Goatboy'd like this one!), 'Yarrow' deals
: with the Dweller On The Threshold, 'Moonheart' revolves around the
: ancient Otherworld and a house which straddles both worlds...Then there
: are his Native American themes in titles like 'Spiritwalk' and 'Savah'.
: His stuff is just so powerful.
*cheer* I _really respect de Lint. In _Spiritwalker_ he has a young pagan
woman explain her beliefs and her motivations and rather than the usual,
"I'm a wierdo pagan... wanna smoke some pot?" bit she gives a rather
eloquent and moving speech. He has certainly done his research, although
he often seems to equate the "Pagan party" and Wicca to the neglect of other
groups, which kind of bugs me, but oh well.
: Well, that's all I can say off the cuff just now. Anyone want to jump
: in?
Count me in! :)
--
**************************************************************************
Deparment of English * California State University, Sacramento
sac2...@saclink.csus.edu *
**************************************************************************
Disclaimer: The views expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.
But they should be.
Nimhrodd
> Howdy all.
> Just thought I'd have a bash at starting a new thread since
> I'm fed up with fundie weirdos and long discussions on which diety has
> the largest dick and so on and so forth... (yawn). So, since we touched
> on Pagan Films, how about Pagan Fiction?
Mercedes Lackey has been putting out some really bad pagan fiction
called the _Diana Tregarde Investigations_. The books basically feature
a "wiccan" who has all these silly modern-day D&D-esque adventures. Not
very good reading, and very disappointing for the woman who brought us
the Heralds series.
purple
> Howdy all.
> Just thought I'd have a bash at starting a new thread since
> I'm fed up with fundie weirdos and long discussions on which diety has
> the largest dick and so on and so forth... (yawn). So, since we touched
> on Pagan Films, how about Pagan Fiction?
Another good writer is Morgan Llywellen (sp.) She has taken a bunch of
myths and tried to put them into some historical context. Two examples
are _Finn MacCoul_ (sp). and _Red Branch_. She also wrote at least
one very good futuristic book called _Elementals_.
Brigdit
The Last Rainbow-St patric
Firelord & Beloved Exile- King Arhur & Guinivere
Sherewood & Robin and theKing- About -----You guessed it, robin hood
bridget
Cheryl Stavis
enjoy your reading.
Rick Leeper
>From: fair...@aol.com (FairyFire)
>Subject: Re: Pagan Fiction
>Date: 26 Jan 1995 13:10:48 -0500
<snip>
>_The Meri_ and _Taminy_ by Maya Kathryn Bohnhoff. Involves the conflict
>between a male-dominated religion and a few women who are called to the
>service of that faith's goddess (!). Sea themes for those of us who are
>sea-witches by nature. :)
<snip>
>Brightest Blessings! -- Lady FairyFire
The only problem I have with the above two mentioned books is that they are a
part of a trilogy and there is no indication of when the third one is going to
appear. There's at least a name for it - "Crystal Rose".
This is highly reminiscent of Diane Duane and her "Door into..." trilogy. I
devoured (figuratively speaking<g>) the first two and then it was almost ten
years before the last one came out. I still haven't read the last one, but
based on the first two I think these would be good ones to add to the list.
Rick
Andrew Paik
> I read the first one of the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, but I
> found it pretty grim... I have to admit to liking Mercedes Lackey's
> Diana Tregarde Investigations and, of course, Marion Zimmer Bradley's
> Darkover novels.
Have you read the First Chonicles of TC? Those were very pagan and the Land
itself, at least without Lord Foul, is the best description I've ever read
of a heaven for pagans...
May You Burn More Brightly,
Andy
pa...@crl.com
wi...@inferno.com
From: INTERNET: ART@LIGHTNING.P Refer#: NONE
To: ** ALL ** Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Pagan Fiction Conf: (12) altpagan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IA>Donald Stephenson: 'Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the unbeliever'
IA> Dark fantasy - can teach a lot about subjective realities and
IA> definitions of magic.
Yes my Husband I believe learned some Magick form this Book. One of his
Favorites.
IA>Abdul Alhazred: 'The Necronomicon'
IA> Tell me if you get hold of a copy...
Your Kidding.... I can go look in Berkley, Moe's just might have a few
copies. You are serious Right????
B*B
Lady Mif K'ta Wita
---
ş SLMR 2.0 ş Only visiting this cosmic plane...
wi...@inferno.com
From: INTERNET: WILD...@BU.EDU Refer#: NONE
To: ** ALL ** Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Pagan Fiction Conf: (12) altpagan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IW>found it pretty grim... I have to admit to liking Mercedes Lackey's
IW>Diana Tregarde Investigations and, of course, Marion Zimmer Bradley's
IW>Darkover novels.
Marion took me to the land of Psi, where I learned a lot about my self,
and Magick. I have all of the Darkover Novles, most of them Signed.
B*B
Lady Mif K'ta Wita
---
ş SLMR 2.0 ş Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Russell Tewalt
Anthony, Piers. Tatham Mound
Auel, Jean. Clan of the Cave Bear
Auel, Jean. Valley of the Horses
Badenock, Lindsay. Daughter of the Runes
Bradley, Marion Zimmer. Mists of Avelon
Bradley, Marion Zimmer. Darkover series, esp Free Amazons and Leroni
Farrar, Stuart. Omega
Flynn, Casey. Gods of Ireland
Geare, Michael and O'Neal Geare, Kathleen. People of the wolf series
Kurtz, Katherine. Lammas Night
Lackey, Mercedes. Diana Tregarde series
Paxson, Diana. The White Raven
Paxson, Diana. Brisingamen
Starhawk. The Fifth Sacred Thing
Thanks to Danni for compiling this list.
Scott Whitaker
Mdcnwolf on Irc
Church of Amazement
p.s. Please keep all flames regarding mine and my familys tast in books
to yourself. Thank you.
Sharon L. Barber
: try reading katherine kurtz's books, especially the deryni series.
: enjoy your reading.
I enjoyed them also, although I don't know if the magico-paganism of
Kurtz really fits the definition of pagan fiction. No wait, now that I've
written that, I change my mind. One of the first things I noticed,
particularly in the Camber books, are how similar the rituals seem to my
own. :)
-
**************************************************************************
Department of English * California State University, Sacramento
sac2...@saclink.csus.edu *
"A moment's Thought is Passion's passing bell..." -Keats
Lorrie Wood
All four series by David Eddings. Yes, they're fantasy, but just
look at that Will and Word! Those capricious little childlike goddesses!
'tain't ethnically correct by a fur piece, but there it is.
Watch carefully for anywhere Sparhawk has them heretical thoughts,
too. Chew on those bits awhile.
Aaaaaaaand, the Discworld books by Terry Pratchett, 'specially:
The Colour of Magic
The Light Fantastic
Equal Rites
Witches Abroad
Good Omens (not Discworld, co-authored by Neil Gaiman. Warning,
not typical of Neil Gaiman's work (e.g. Sandman)
And for Celtic Mythology Lite, them books by Lloyd Alexander
(I keep wanting to say Chronicles of Llyr, but I know that's just me
trying to transpose Chronicles of Narnia onto it).
For Celtic Mythology Really Lite with a dash of Dune (come now,
what else do you call the Aiel and the Bene Gaes Sedai?), pick up
one of the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. First one's _The
_Eye_of_the_World_. In later books, there's things to chew on wrt
differences between the sexes. Action is sort of repitious, but I
hear that's deliberate on the author's part.
Oh, yeah, and Stephen King's _IT_, which is not really germane,
but I recommend that to anyone (well, it sort of is. I mean, you have
the Power of Belief and all).
-- Lorrie will not don her asbestos suit, the apartment's chilly and needs
a bit of heat, anyway.
Margaret McGlynn
Also, try:
_Wisechild_ and _Juniper_ by Monica Furlong -- young adult novels but too
good to miss, about two girls who are taught to be witches. Please look
for these two -- I want the authors to write more like them, or at least
to write more.
_The_Forgotten_Beasts_of_Eld_ by Patricia McKillip and her Riddlemaster
trilogy as well -- her style is truly fabulous.
Anything by Tanith Lee, in particular her series that starts with
_Night's Master_. Although this series is billed as "Adult Fantasy" on
the cover, I read it when I was about 12, and I turned out okay (only a
bit twisted, but never spindled or mutilated).
Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain, another children's favorite
based on a welsh legend cycle -- fabulous!!!!
Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series (starts with
_Swords_and_Deviltry_) -- de rigueur for fantasy lovers and Nebula
Award-Winning to boot. Fritz Leiber is a wonderful story teller.
Just about anything you can find by Zylpha Keatly Snyder -- again, look
in the children's book section of the library. Even when her stuff isn't
about magic or ESP it's fabulous -- great characters.
Lucius Shephard -- wow, what use of language! -- wrote a book about
Voodoun called -Green-Eyes- that I hope is still in print -- very cool!
By the way, I do believe Diana Paxson is a Norse Pagan priestess -- a
friend of mine told me he'd circled with her.
Here's something for the off-beat and kinkily into pseudo satanic stuff
-- for adults only -- the graphic novel "Girl" (a nympho-maniac gets
involved with some nymphomaniac demons. Nice juicy porn.
Now here's a question I should probably post to the comics newsgroup but
oh, well -- does anybody remember a comic series, tragically short-lived,
an anthology series hosted by a tarot card reader who solved people's
problems. It came out in the mid to late seventies -- could have been DC
-- and was called "Night-something" "Nightmare?" I forget. I'd love to
hear from someone who knows what I'm talking about.
Blessed be and happy reading!!!!
And if this posting arrives at the newsgroup with all this carefully
thought out wordage instead of stupidly mute blankness, I'll make a
special libation to Hecate this Saturday night. So mote it be!!!!
Ivy
--
Margaret "Valentino said, 'There's nothing like
mce...@primenet.com tile for a tango." --Nora Desmond
Lorrie Wood
>IA>Abdul Alhazred: 'The Necronomicon'
>IA> Tell me if you get hold of a copy...
>
>Your Kidding.... I can go look in Berkley, Moe's just might have a few
>copies. You are serious Right????
>
>B*B
> Lady Mif K'ta Wita
Sure, Mif, it's in one of those funny stores up on Telegraph. I
got my copy there. Funny thing was, though, when I left the store and
looked behind me, all I saw was an empty lot. Must've been one of THOSE
shops.
-- Lorrie
John Luther
: On 26 Jan 1995 15:08:35 GMT,
: John Luther (lut...@saucer.cc.umr.edu) posted this:
: > Arthur Hagen (a...@lightning.powertech.no) wrote:
: <snip>
: > : Donald Stephenson: 'Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the unbeliever'
: > That's Sephen R. Donaldson.
: Not Stephen? Funny, but I have this problem with -son surnames - I
: frequently mix them.
Doah!
I guess I'd better hand in my pedant's license. <head hung in shame>
Peace,
jwl
--
John W. Luther -(905)- lut...@umr.edu
"If a man achieves or suffers change in premises which are deeply
embedded in his mind, he will surely find that the results of that
change will ramify throughout his whole universe." Gregory Bateson
PETER POOLE
-> You forgot to mention 'The Little people', which I believe is de Lint's
-> best novel, and one of the best novels I've ever read. Perhaps because I
-> play the fiddle and can identify with the musical references in it.
Ya,ya. It's wonderfully intricate and clever. I just didn't want to
list all his titles and take up too much bandwidth!
Haven't gotten around to Second Son yet - read some of O.S.Card's SF
which I enjoy. I have a huge list of books I must read...sob. Couldn't
get into Donaldson's work, I think it's too male-orientated for me.
Some series seem that way,eg. I enjoyed Raymond Fiest/Janny Wurts
'Empire' series but couldn't read Fiest's Riftwar books which sparked
it off. Janny Wurts is another writer worth watching. I found the
Empire series and Master Of Whitestorm very good character-wise, which
is what I go for. Pity she's gone back to formula with the Mistwraith
ones.
Books, books, oh I love books.....
Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * Thesaurus: an ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary.
PETER POOLE
-> *cheer* I _really respect de Lint. In _Spiritwalker_ he has a young pagan
-> woman explain her beliefs and her motivations and rather than the usual,
-> "I'm a wierdo pagan... wanna smoke some pot?" bit she gives a rather
-> eloquent and moving speech. He has certainly done his research, although
-> he often seems to equate the "Pagan party" and Wicca to the neglect of other
-> groups, which kind of bugs me, but oh well.
I really enjoyed Spiritwalker. As you say, he knows his stuff. Maybe
he's more comfortable with pagan and Wicca and finds enough grist for
his mental mill there. He seems to enjoy bringing in threads from other
beliefs to add to the urban myths. Have you read Dreams Underfoot? I
don't know if it was the mood I was in at the time or what, but some of
the tales in there made me distinctly uneasy and I couldn't finish it.
Just remembered a similar writer; Robert Holdstock. Letsee...Mythago
Wood, Lavondys, The Hollowing... I've read Mythago Wood, which deals
with the origins of myth in a slightly less mystical way than de Lint.
Bye. Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * This is getting spooky, Mulder...
PETER POOLE
-> suggest Tom Robbins' work, especially _Jitterbug_Perfume_ (Pan is a
-> central character).
-> In the fantasy/sf genre, I'd suggest Tom Dietz's series of novels about
-> the Tuatha de Danaan interacting with characters in the North Georgia
-> mountains as interesting, fun reading. On the tarot theme, Piers
-> Anthony's book _Tarot_ (available both as one and three volumes) is
-> excellent, interesting reading, even if you don't like Piers Anthony's
-> usual style.
Haven't tried them... I went off Anthony after his Xanth series got
repetitive.
-> Whoever said that the best mythic/pagan literature is often written
with -> a juvenile audience in mind was probably right. Susan Cooper
has said -> that it's more fun to write mythical novels for children
because less -> explanation is required--a writer can work with pure
fiction rather than -> having to justify and document everything,
something many adults require -> even in fiction.
How true. Kids just accept, they don't need to see the bones. Most of
my favourite 'throw this out and you die' books are childrens titles.
Wynne Jones has written many wonderful books for children, including ->
_Dogsbody_. Her novel _Fire_And_Hemlock_ has a fascinating mythical ->
theme, and the books in the Chrestomanci series (_Charmed_Life_, ->
_Witch_Week_, _The_Lives_Of_Christopher_Chant_) are lighthearted
without -> being cartoonish.
Diane Wynne Jones is a vastly under-rated writer. Her stories are
always off-the wall and contain lovely wry humour. The woman herself is
very funny and approachable.
You mentioned Arthurian tales. I enjoy those ones which twist the known
myth in unusual directions, like Zimmer Bradley, or Gillian Bradshaw,
who wrote a trilogy; the first two were from Gawain's (he had a Celtic
name) p.o.v., the third from Guinevere's. Guy Gabriel Kay's Fionavar
Tapestry is good also.
Aren't books wonderful?
Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * Why did Kamakazi pilots wear helmets???
PETER POOLE
-> I've got to defend Mercedes Lackey here... the Diana Tregarde novels
-> can be quite offbase when it comes to magick, but their morals and
-> deeper principles are in the right place. It's fiction, and it's quite
-> dramatic at that, but the ideas are mostly correct... it's the window
-> dressing that's a bit off.
-> Plus, she tends to have problems with an ending... but hey, reading
-> _Jinx High_ got me to understand that Wiccans aren't evil, and from there,
-> I gradually started reading other books and deepening my knowledge.
Here here...I find the Tregarde novels light and enjoyable. They're
obviously aimed at a teenage market, so maybe she makes the magick
off-base deliberately... Have you read her Serrated Edge series? Elves,
fast cars, magick... gimmie those pointed ears! Speaking of Ms Lackey,
am I the only one who found Storm Warning boring?
:-) Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * This is getting spooky, Mulder...
The Polsons
Steiner) wrote:
> Gee, a subject after my own heart. One of my favorite authors for Pagan
> fiction is Emma Bull. her best bookIMO is __War for the Oaks__.
> The story of a rock band and how they saved Minnapolis.
>
> Others may have slightly more of a ceremonial magick about them as well as a
> lot of Paganess<sp> they are __Brisingamin__ and __The Paradise Tree__. The
> first about Freya's necklace and the second about Kabblah as well
> as"shortcuts to inlightenment" and New Age fluffiness turned nasty. Any
> others?
I really liked Brisingamin, especially the ending. My personal faves for
Pagan Fiction (and a series of books that changed my life, BTW) is the
Strands of Starlight series by Gael Baudino. I didn't like her Gossamer
Axe, an unrelated tale of time travel and rock music, but Strands of
Starlight and the other 3 in the series will knock you out. Magic, the
Inquisition, GOOD Witches, Elves....what more can you ask for???? If you
haven't seen these, get 'em right now. That's right, hang up, go to your
nearest bookstore and buy at least Strands of Starlight, the first book
(it's the best, anyway). You won't put them down! Blessings!
-Willow (pol...@cruzio.com)
---------------------------------------------------
But list! A voice is near;
Great Pan himself low-whispering through the reeds,
"Be thankful, thou; for if unholy deeds
Ravage the world, tranquility is here!"
-Wordsworth, "Water Sonnets"
----------------------------------------------------
BEKKI LYN
>blch...@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN) writes:
>
>> In article <FqXJZc...@clydes.clark.net> nimh...@clydes.clark.net (Nimhrod
>> >
>> > I sincerely hope you are not getting the bulk of your information
>> >about Wicca from works of fiction.
>>
>> Why, what is wrong with that idea?
>>
>
> Well, on one hand, I have to admit that I have gotten mucho
>inspiration from many works of fiction. On the other hand, I knwo folk
>who have relied on fiction ONLY, and constantly think some
>uS{w{{xD{acking them and see wierd creatures all over their house (not
>talking spirits here). I guess it's sorta like a double-edged sword.
I'm not sure I understand what you intended that one word to
be, but perhaps it would all depend on the individuals involved.
Some people could probably get all their inspiration from
fiction and come up with a very meaningful belief system.
Others might not come up with much beyond weirdness. Is
there anyone out there on netland that does rely mainly
on works of fiction for a belief system? (Of course, one
could argue that we all base our belief systems on works
of fiction, but I was mainly thinking of stories such
as _Lord of the Rings_, Earthsea, Witch World, etc.)
--
Bekki Lyn
********************************************************
_Raving Dionysian_ & Representative of the Air Element
of NCSU's
SOCIETY OF PAGANISM & MAGICK
********************************************************
"Drums, guitars, and death. They finally got it right."
-- BH --
********************************************************
Donald Edwards
" Is there anyone out there on netland that does rely mainly
"on works of fiction for a belief system?
Depends on what you mean by that. The particular aspect of
the Goddess Whom I worship is blatantly derived from a
specific work of fiction (note "derived" not "taken").
(For that matter, I got the very concept of the Fourfold
Goddess from that same source.)
But that is because She fit well with what I already
knew, while admirably fixing some things I had been
uncomfortable with and filling some gaping holes.
In other words, the belief system (for the most part)
came first, the Goddess later. Which pretty well
matches how I came to be a Pagan in the first place.
David McKinstry
: Howdy all.
: Just thought I'd have a bash at starting a new thread since
: I'm fed up with fundie weirdos and long discussions on which diety has
: the largest dick and so on and so forth... (yawn). So, since we touched
: Another marvelous kids author is Susan Cooper, and her 'The Dark
<major cut>
: Well, that's all I can say off the cuff just now. Anyone want to jump
: in?
Love to! I was infatuated with Flynn's modern treatment of how Ireland
began and how it continued, retelling the ancient myths in modern terms.
Unfortunately, I've only found one of the books, the first, "Oldest Song"
I believe the title was. I assume there were more - does anyone know
anything about these?
wil...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
"Blood..." series by Tanya Huff
--
William Katzell email: wil...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
11910 126 Street phone: 455-0404
Edmonton, AB, T5L 0W2
wi...@inferno.com
Subj: Re: Pagan Fiction Conf: (12) altpagan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IB>>
IB>> I sincerely hope you are not getting the bulk of your information
IB>>about Wicca from works of fiction.
IB>Why, what is wrong with that idea?
You go Girlfriend.... hahahahahaa I get some of my best Ideas from
Fiction, and you know what, some of them work :)
I also Like the Myth serries, I know they are not considered "Wiccan",
but I get a Hoot out of them. also the Castle serries. I Want that
castle.
B*B
Lady Mif K'ta Wita
---
ž SLMR 2.0 ž PhD. Piled higher & deeper.
Karen Davidson
>Here here...I find the Tregarde novels light and enjoyable. They're
>obviously aimed at a teenage market, so maybe she makes the magick
>off-base deliberately... Have you read her Serrated Edge series? Elves,
>fast cars, magick... gimmie those pointed ears! Speaking of Ms Lackey,
>am I the only one who found Storm Warning boring?
>
>:-) Lorraine
>
stayed in that time frame in Valdemar for too long. All the other sets of
stories stayed in any time frame only long enough to tell the story and
then ended. What made the next set neat was the tidbits from the last
time frame as history, complete with an inaccuracy or missing
information, as we might expect of any written history. I had read the
Mage Winds series, courtesy of a friend who later went to Ireland with
all of his books but after reading The Black Gryphon, I had to go out and
buy the series because I wanted to read again what one character had to
say about the Gryphon era!
now for the serious criticism of Mercedes Lackey:
I was not comfortable with her writing Sacred Ground, a novel about a
native detective/shaman/magician. I believe this is exactly the kind of
cultural theft the Lakta War Cry is about. Just like Lynn Andrews, this
is white people writing about native culture and spirituality for profit.
OK, so Ms. Lackey is writing fiction, for entertainment and has a
disclaimer at the rear of the book but IMHO, it is still cultural theft.
people make mistakes, i'm still a fan of her writing, BTW.
and I'm grumpy today, so I just don't give a damn if you flame me.
watch out for falling letters.........................sig under construction
Karen kdav...@library.uwaterloo.ca
.......................the Changer and the Changed..........................
Raven
|now for the serious criticism of Mercedes Lackey:
|
|I was not comfortable with her writing Sacred Ground, a novel about a
|native detective/shaman/magician. I believe this is exactly the kind of
|cultural theft the Lakta War Cry is about. Just like Lynn Andrews, this
|is white people writing about native culture and spirituality for profit.
|OK, so Ms. Lackey is writing fiction, for entertainment and has a
|disclaimer at the rear of the book but IMHO, it is still cultural theft.
|
|people make mistakes, i'm still a fan of her writing, BTW.
Misty is a nice lady, she really is, and I've also enjoyed her writing,
but I too have been uncomfortable with, well, a carelessness in research
when she writes about real cultures other than her own. Imaginary
cultures she can make whatever she wants them to be; her own culture
(USA-Midwest) is already familiar to her; but the remainder take work
to know, not just drawing from "common knowledge" and offhand guesses.
A while back, in order to make up for an offstage villain bearing a
recognizable variant of my name ("Joserlin Corbie", teen gang leader),
Misty created a sympathetic secondary and then primary character for
her Bardic Voices / Bardic Choices series -- Raven the Free Bard --
and even assured my Lady Megan that she would be his true love.
(Heard from Megan, as she read the next book: "Magpie? MAGpie???!")
This Raven was, by odd happenstance, a Gypsy. How Gypsies got to this
whole other story universe is anybody's guess, but wherever roads go,
Gypsies go. They ARE the same people, the Romany, as on this world,
given the use of the same Romany language, heard in short snippets.
But Romany is not only a people and a language, it is a culture;
it has rules. Not the same set of rules as gadje (non-Gypsies) have,
but rules nonetheless, and even stricter in some ways, despite the
celebrated freedom of the road. Nomadic life, camp life, demands
some kinds of rules; and others are part of the heritage from India,
just like the language and the genes: what is talked about, or not;
what is looked at, or not; what is clean, what is washable, and what
is so foul that it renders a Gypsy "marhime" -- ritually unclean and
unwelcome among the people. So many gadje call Gypsies "dirty", but
Gypsies see it the other way. Gadje do not observe the rules of
cleanliness, in matters so diverse as: ALWAYS washing the hands before
touching food or eating; men not touching women's dresses (if anyone
does not realize the power this gives a Gypsy woman, think of this --
by striking an offensive man with the hem of her dress she can have him
banished to live alone on the road until a council accepts him back);
strict privacy of nudity and "toilet" issues (as a character in THE
FINAL COUNTDOWN said of Navy quarters, "privacy is important... because
we have so damn little of it") to the point of not seeing, not hearing,
not talking about such matters; strict separation of washables, drawing
water from different parts of the stream, upstream for cleanest use,
downstream for least clean; even parts of the body should not be dried
with the same cloth (to dry the head on a towel previously used to dry
the legs would render one marhime). Gadje don't care about this, but
Romany do -- and in these stories that level of technology applies.
The "Gypsy" characters in Misty's stories, and in Brust's & Lindholm's
_The_Gypsy_, would have been declared marhime in one day of story time.
They behave like gadje, wearing labels marked "Gypsy" on their costumes.
I haven't seen Misty's attempt at Native American characters yet, but I
certainly hope she spent more effort on researching the cultures first.
(Along those lines -- has anyone else here read Tony Hillerman's great
mystery stories set on the Hopi and Navajo reservations in AZ/NM? They
qualify as "pagan fiction", but set in REAL modern pagan societies!)
-- Raven (JSi...@Music.Lib.MATC.Edu). [All standard disclaimers apply]
Andrew C. Plotkin
Lee...@water.dnr.st (1033)
> This is highly reminiscent of Diane Duane and her "Door into..." trilogy. I
> devoured (figuratively speaking<g>) the first two and then it was almost ten
> years before the last one came out. I still haven't read the last one, but
> based on the first two I think these would be good ones to add to the list.
Frustratingly, it's a four-book series, not three. The fourth one is
being worked on, but will undoubtedly be a while before it's done.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
bjvanlook
Donald Edwards <wa...@blarg.com> wrote:
>
>Depends on what you mean by that. The particular aspect of
>the Goddess Whom I worship is blatantly derived from a
>specific work of fiction (note "derived" not "taken").
Ditto here.... sometimes none of the old mythologies have what you need.
Then it's time to start making your own. If the need for Her is there,
but none of the old stories talk about the part of Her you need, then
strictly adhereing to the old stories wont do you a lick of good.
>(For that matter, I got the very concept of the Fourfold
>Goddess from that same source.)
Ditto. And it game *me* a complex series of symbologies to add to my
understandings of Them -- and to change things about the "standard" views
that I wasn't comfortable with: the 4 elements, the phases of the moon,
the cylces of the hunt (as well as the harvest -- we hardly touch on
Him), etc.
>In other words, the belief system (for the most part)
>came first, the Goddess later. Which pretty well
>matches how I came to be a Pagan in the first place.
My mother once said something along the lines of "Every gardener is a
spiritualist."
The pictures may change -- but the intent has always remained the same
for me.
Lady bless,
Lady Banjo
--
bvan...@nyx.cs.du.edu.......Speaking only for myself and my evil twin Skippy
"We read by way of revenge." -- Thomas Paine, COMMON SENSE
bjvanlook
Gummibear <gummi@spanky_b.dac.neu.edu> wrote:
>I just finished a book titled _The_Sword_and_the_Lion_ which pits the
>followers of a lion god against those of an earth goddess. Unfortunately, I
>can't remember the author-- maybe Roberta Gray?, but I would recommend it to
>anyone.
Oh this wierds me out....here I thought no one else in the world had ever
*seen* this book..... one of my favorite Amtgard personas is named Secchi
The Author is Roberta Cray...the ISBN is 0-88677-558-2
It's *really* good...if you like Goddesses who are more than just
sweetness & light....
I also highly recommend it....I was just reading it today! :D
Lady Bless,
PETER POOLE
-> >Uh uh... Time Of Exile comes with Time Of Omens and Time of War and
I -> >think there's a fourth one due. Dagger, Dark, Dawn and
Dragonspell -> >are the first four which follow Nevyn's attempt to get
Jill onto the -> >path of dewomer where she should have been all along.
-> >The 'Time' ones come after, when Nevyn is gone, Jill is a dewomer
-> >master and Rhodry has returned to his father's people and finally
finds -> >out what that ring means! Avid fan? Moi?
-> ca...@ksu.ksu.edu (Catra Y. Lyons) wrote:
-> the katharine kerr books are as follows: daggerspell, darkspell, the bristling
-> wood, the dragon revenant, a time of exile, a time of omens, days of air and
-> darkness, days of fire and (something?).
I think what we have here are the same books, but different titles on
either side of the pond. As I recall, Dragonspell and Dawnspell have
'The bristling Wood' and 'Dragon Revenant' as subtitles. Same with the
other ones. I hate it when they do that, you see an American imprint and
think "goodie, a new title!" and discover it's one you already have...
What the heck, she's a damn good writer.
Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Arthur Hagen
PETER POOLE (peter...@almac.co.uk) posted this:
<chop, slash>
> You mentioned Arthurian tales. I enjoy those ones which twist the known
> myth in unusual directions, like Zimmer Bradley, or Gillian Bradshaw,
> who wrote a trilogy; the first two were from Gawain's (he had a Celtic
> name) p.o.v., the third from Guinevere's. Guy Gabriel Kay's Fionavar
> Tapestry is good also.
Naturally I love Arthurian tales. But I advise you all NOT to waste your
money on Stephen R. Lawhead's "Pendragon Cycle", i.e. the books
"Taliesin", "Merlin" and "Arthur". Not only does he gradually try to
tell us that these persons were christians, and that everyone should try
to become christian, but the books contains anomalies that suddenly spoil
any illusion (like Merlin having potatoes for dinner).
> Aren't books wonderful?
They sure are!
BB,
*Art
Roger Wilber
Her style is hard to get used to but once you're used to it, it gets absorbing.
Especiallyif you like stories that are really twisted.
Aloyen
Mark Metson
: A personal favorite of mine is Little Big, by John Crowley.
: It has to be one of the best novels I have ever read. A little slow for
: some, but especially good when read aloud to someone you love.
I venture to suggest that, as in 'God Emperor of Dune', conveying that
slowness is part of the essential magick of the book. It conveys a certain
timelessness, an eternity, an eternal-now. Evoking that special slowness is an
accomplishment and part of what makes the book work. As a quickie, it just
would not work. The weird timesense is essential atmosphere.
(I am not saying 'God Emperor' conveys the same sense. Just that in both,
giving a sense of slowness is essential. In 'God Emperor' it is to try
to give a feel for the God-Emperor's perspective, knowing the whole 5000
years in advance yet having to live through it anyway. In 'Little, Big' it
convesys a 'faerie' feel of timelessness/eternity.)
: e-mail me if you are a fan of this book.
Nah, much more fun to eat up bandwidth. ;-)
Blessed Be. -MarkM-
--
Mark Metson How many mystics does it take to bring Peace on Earth?
aa...@cfn.cs.dal.ca Only one - but each one has to do it for themself.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^----> [ email address soon to be ma...@god.knotwork.ns.ca ]
===============================================================================
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===============================================================================
PETER POOLE
-> >"Is there anyone out there on netland that does rely mainly
-> >"on works of fiction for a belief system?
-> You could say that. My belief system is based on all sorts
-> of things I learned and read and saw and heard and experienced
-> in the course of getting to right here. And, like most of
-> yours, my belief system is changing as I learn and read and see
-> and hear and experience more. However, the clearest articulations
-> of a lot of what I believe have been found in works (ostensibly)
-> of fiction.
-> You recognize truth when you hear it, and hearing it in a work
-> of fiction instead of a book of philosophy does not make it any
-> less valuable. It happens that I grew up in a generation and a
-> household that value science fiction as one of the more fruitful
-> avenues for exploring belief, truth, metaphor, and possibility.
Seconded. I got a lot of my belief systems from the fiction I read as a
kid onwards, simply because there was no one person and no 'authority'
(church or otherwise) to give insight on the questions I pondered. Like
Gregg, I now use other methods; swopping opinions/ideas, non-fiction
and so on.
In a way, the fiction you're exposed to as a child is the equivilant
of the tribal elder/wise person/bard/storyteller who provided the
mythical basis of cultural mores and belief systems. Which makes me
worried when you consider the number of kids who have no
fictional/mythical input or get their beliefs from violent films and
games...
Peace
Lorraine
1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
* 1st 2.00b #339 * Witches use brooms because Nature abhors a vacuum...
A.K.Cosgrove
wil...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca <wil...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
I'll second THAT! No Witches in these books, but so far we've seen
werewolves, zombies, mummies, demons and a *terribly sexy* vampire
by the name of Henry Fitzroy.
Valerya
who eagerly awaits Ms.Huff's next adventure with Vicky and Henry
ali0...@unccvm.uncc.edu a.k.cosgrove
"....I dunno. Call Bob. He's the expert..."
###########################################################################
"Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. Man did
not weave the web of life; he is merely a strand in it. Whatever
he does to the web, he does to himself..."
Chief Seathl (Seattle), Suwamish Tribe
###########################################################################
PETER POOLE
@SUBJECT:Re: Hillary! (Was Re: The Fifth Sacred Thing...) N
@UMSGID :<3gre4g$i...@nexus.polaris.net> N
@UNEWSGR:01alt.pagan N
From: bo...@apogee.polaris.net (Roger Books)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hillary! (Was Re: The Fifth Sacred Thing...)
Date: 2 Feb 1995 20:08:48 GMT
Organization: Polaris Networking, Inc.
Message-ID: <3gre4g$i...@nexus.polaris.net>
Bronwyn S. Beistle (bbei...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Good for you! To top it off, I'd vote for Hillary over Bill any day of
: the week. At least she has the courage of her convictions.
: Bronwyn
: --
: Bronwyn Beistle
:
Amanda Walker
> On the other hand, there are Pagan *elements* in them. And the real-life
> order religous/mystical that she founded, the Michaelines, verge on
> neoPaganism (vide our own dear Amanda Walker)....
Yes and no. The Order itself a Christian community. However, we do not
exclude anyone on the basis of some litmus test of orthodoxy, and we welcome
folks of all faiths to particpate in our activities. Now, compared to many
Christian groups, I agree that this may sound "close enough to pagan as not to
matter," but that's not really an accurate characterization. We have many
people, involved to various degrees, that are also involved with non-Christian
spiritual or religious paths. In some cases, these frameworks are pagan, but
in others, they are not: we have Jews, Buddhists, an agnostic or two, pagans,
and many varieties of Christians (ranging from Roman Catholic to pentecostal).
However, despite this large cross-section of esoteric experience among our
members, the Order itself is not a multiple-path organization. Many of the
traditions that we explore which may seem to be echoes of neopaganism are
actually based on the same sources that neopaganism uses, including the
Kabbalah, Christian Hermeticism, and so on.
For example, if you attend a service sponsored by the Order at an ecumenical
gathering or some other event where a bunch of Michaelines are attending, and
listen to us "calling the quarters," it's not because we borrowed it from the
Wiccan watchtowers or some other pagan tradition--rather, it's from Judeo-
Christian traditions of invoking the Archangels. We do work within a
Christian framework, even if we do end up exploring many of same traditions,
neglected by the mainstream, that paganism does.
Hope this helps some.
Peace,
Amanda Walker
Mary K. Kuhner
Sybils_, a collection of personal essays about priestesshood. A
wonderful book. There is a companion volume _Voices from the Circle_
which is not focussed solely on women, but I found it to be weaker
(despite preferring the wider range of viewpoints): despite the
statement in the introduction that the book was not meant as apologetics
or basic information for the skeptical, there were a lot of such
introductory essays in it, and I didn't find them nearly as interesting
as the intensely personal views in _Voices of the Goddess_.
Both books are in print as far as I know.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@genetics.washington.edu
Sharon L. Barber
: I really enjoyed Spiritwalker. As you say, he knows his stuff. Maybe
: his mental mill there. He seems to enjoy bringing in threads from other
: beliefs to add to the urban myths. Have you read Dreams Underfoot? I
: don't know if it was the mood I was in at the time or what, but some of
: the tales in there made me distinctly uneasy and I couldn't finish it.
: Just remembered a similar writer; Robert Holdstock. Letsee...Mythago
: Wood, Lavondys, The Hollowing... I've read Mythago Wood, which deals
: with the origins of myth in a slightly less mystical way than de Lint.
:
: Bye. Lorraine
: 1st Beta 2.0 - cutting edje or what?
: * 1st 2.00b #339 * This is getting spooky, Mulder...
I agree. I read Dreams Underfoot really slowly. I could only start
reading it again each time once the uneasiness kind of wore off. De Lint
has a much more "real" approach to fantasy that I think is really
disturbing. It's not the fluffy, happy, lemon-scented fantasy that seems
to have invaded popular culture. I grew up in New York City and I could
relate to alot of the things he described. I guess I sort of filled them
in... It took a while, but I got through the book. All good art is like
that though. It speaks to something inside you and makes you pause for a
while.
--slb
**************************************************************************
Department of English * California State University, Sacramento
sac2...@saclink.csus.edu *
"A moment's Thought is Passion's passing bell..." -Keats
**************************************************************************
Disclaimer: The views expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.
But they should be.
Sharon L. Barber
: In article <3g9s44$c...@news.csus.edu>,
: sac2...@saclink1.csus.edu (Sharon L. Barber) wrote:
: > Cheryl Stavis (Che...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: > : try reading katherine kurtz's books, especially the deryni series.
: > : enjoy your reading.
: >
: > I enjoyed them also, although I don't know if the magico-paganism of
: > Kurtz really fits the definition of pagan fiction. No wait, now that I've
: <snip>
: Magico-paganism? Um, Kathy Kurtz' books are about magickal Xians. C'mon,
: Saint Camber and the Church?
Thanks mark, I was thinking one thing and typing another. I realized it
just as I hit the send key. I actually meant to write "magico-Catholicism."
:) Sorry about that silly typo.
: On the other hand, there are Pagan *elements* in them. And the real-life
: order religous/mystical that she founded, the Michaelines, verge on
: neoPaganism (vide our own dear Amanda Walker)....
I agree. I found that alot of the rituals, especially in the Camber books
are very similar to some ways to my own.
:)
: mark
--Sharon *bonks* herself for making a silly typo! :)
Frank Dance
Speak Daggers To Her - by Rosemary Edghill
On the cover a quote by Margot Adler says "A fast-pased mystery and
occult thriller with a saucy female detective whose language sparkles
with wit and irony. The book works both as a mystery and as novel of
magic, and contains an accurate, if good-humored, look at today's
witchcraft scene."
Try it, you'll enjoy it!
Sharon Dance
IO3...@maine.maine.edu
I followed this thread for a while here, and I find it interesting that I
haven't noticed soemone mention the Deverry books by Katherine Kerr.
The series is one of the best I've read, written by a Celtic scholar and
a excellent fantasy writer. The entire series is written against the
backdrop of the most 'realistic' magic world I have ever seen. The
story also excellently weaves in past life into the midst of the story
, following the Wyrd (fate you take from life to life, though I have to
admit, this crowd is the most likely to have already known that defination
<g>) of the three main characters. The story is remarkable in it's own right
and Kerr's knowledge of Celtic history, culture, and beliefs makes
the stories true works of art....
Er, let me say..that when I said 'realistic' magic, I have no real prior
experience...just a wandering agnostic that lurks in the background. Lets
just say that it's a magic I could easily see in our world (okay, _some_
parts of it....the dragon and 'Guardians' are a little much sometimes ;)
As for the others...I also think MZB's _Forest House_ and _Mist of Avalon_
were super. Though I must admit, I read _Witch Hill_ before I saw them and
that almost turned me off to MZB completely....Diane Duane's _Door into..._
series is good, though I don't know if you can call it pagan. For those
classics lovers E. R. Eddison's _Zimmavia_ (spelling is definately wrong)
triology (_Mistress of Mistresses_, _Fish Dinner in Memison(sp)_, and _The
Mezibarian(sp) Way_) can be said to have a 'pagan' bent and are the most
wonderful books of artistic and literary excellence I have _ever_ read.
In fact ERE planned orginally to call the series _Pagan Heaven_!
I have only read one of Diane Paxson's books, and found it enjoyable, I
certainly will read others. There a others that float across my memory,
but none that stand out at the moment....
My apolgies if my posting seems out place here...but it was fantasy that
first got me interested in Pagan subjects and now I find myself reading
Adler's_Drawing Down the Moon_, so who knows......
-J. William
P.S. The Deverry series: _Daggerspell_, _Darkspell_, _The Bristling Wood_
, (fourth title forgotten -argh!-), _A Time of Exile_, _A Time of Omens_
, _Days of Blood and Fire_, _Days of Air and Darkness_.
IO3...@maine.maine.edu
early. It should be allright as is, but I just wanted to make sure...
Sorry.
<Re-lurk>
J. William
Brigdit
While you're at it find the rest of her stuff. "circle of darkness, circle
of light" has a triple goddess
FairyFire
>>Sharon Dance
Agreed, the book is a mystery, and works on that level. And it is somewhat
accurate in terms of the (mostly negative) view of the magickal community.
I bought it and enjoyed it as a novel.
BUT (and this is a BIG reservation for me) it paints a frightening picture
of abuse by so-called Pagan cults. A stern warning for a seeker, but
overly alarming.
There are also some inaccuracies, including the "bad" magicians killing
and then nailing a cat to the "investigator's" door as a form of a curse.
Which brings me to my BIGGEST problem with this book. The woman who wrote
it is a romance novelist. This was her first attempt at a mystery, and not
being Pagan or anything of the sort, she decided to do her research on the
Wicca/Pagan/etc. bulletin boards of some national services. She announced
her presence and then most promptly forgot that she was there.
During this time, a friend of mine was having renewed problems with the
same anti-choice/anti-Pagan Fundies that had previously nailed a
neighbor's cat to her back door. She'd reposted the incident in way of
warning, and Ms. Edgehill took it out of context to use in her book as a
"curse".
There was also an incident involving a potential mini-cult which had taken
root on this board, which I suspect is the root of the core of the plot.
The real life people involved have to deal with the fall-out for the rest
of their lives. (And, to be honest, not alarmist, there were those who did
NOT make it out of this guy's grasp alive, including a 15 year old girl).
And this is the stuff from which she put together a "fictional" mystery.
It's offensive, to say the least.
I just want to warn anyone about this. If you're fond of animals, you
won't enjoy the cat incident. If you like to think that we're safe from
people stealing the bits of our lives that we discuss in this public
forum, this will be a wake-up call.
Up 'til now I haven't commented on this book outside of a few remarks to
close friends. But I know the people who were involved in the original
incident, and it's offensive that someone would take parts of peoples'
real lives and make it into fiction. Especially when we're just Joe and
Mary Pagan, and not celebrities, and total strangers to Ms. Edgehill.
Enough said about that. Just adding my $2.00 to the bandwidth.
Brightest Blessings,
-- Lady FairyFire
mark
Richar...@telos.org (Richard Bott) wrote:
> 'lo, mark
How do?
> In [(INT) ALT.PAGAN] on <29 Jan 95 23:23>, mark wrote to All:
>
> ma> Magico-paganism? Um, Kathy Kurtz' books are about magickal Xians. C'mon,
> ma> Saint Camber and the Church?
>
> ma> On the other hand, there are Pagan *elements* in them. And the real-life
> ma> order religous/mystical that she founded, the Michaelines, verge on
> ma> neoPaganism (vide our own dear Amanda Walker)....
>
> Hmmm... I'd agree with you about the Deryini series, but what about "Lammas
> Night", and the (not so popular) "Adept" series?
Well, I finally got to read Lammas Night, last year, after wanting to
read it for a couple of years, and was somewhat disappointed. I did not
feel that she really set it up so that the Prince *needed* to die. I
did *not* see the impelling plot requirement of it.
Didn't read the Adept series. When she first started writing, back in the
early seventies, I really liked the Deryni books, but I slowly drifted
away from her work. As my Lady noted, anyone, other than the primary
characters, who you *really* like, tend to get slaughtered. To that, I
noted that her ethics tend to shift, as well; in the, mmm, fourth or
fifth book, Derry agonizes for chapters over giving his word and keeping
it, and then later gives it, then breaks it, without much comment, because
it was under duress (even though it was the same, earlier).
<snip>
mark
mark
<IO3...@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> wrote:
> <De-lurk>
<MVNCH>
> that almost turned me off to MZB completely....Diane Duane's _Door into..._
> series is good, though I don't know if you can call it pagan. For those
Not sure if you can call Diane's books Pagan? Um, is the New Testament
Xian?
Allegorical writing has gotten a bad rep over the years (and often
justifiably so; certainly I've had huge arguments over Narnia on just
that subject), but when I finished rereading the first two, which I
did, since I hadn't read them since they came out, and then read the
third, my reaction was that if this wasn't an part of, mm, shall I
call it allegorical sacred tales, then I don't have a clue what I'm
doing here on a.p.
mark
mark
ama...@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) wrote:
> mark writes:
> > On the other hand, there are Pagan *elements* in them. And the real-life
> > order religous/mystical that she founded, the Michaelines, verge on
> > neoPaganism (vide our own dear Amanda Walker)....
>
> Yes and no. The Order itself a Christian community. However, we do not
> exclude anyone on the basis of some litmus test of orthodoxy, and we welcome
Well, I *did* say "verge", and I really don't know *that* much about the
Michaelines, but I did want to at least *try* to get this a bit more
into the right direction. And, of course, I *was* hoping you'd come in
to give a more definitive answer (for which I am grateful, and is, in
part, why I am glad that there is a diversity of paths here, to keep
misconscptions from turning into new cyburban legends).
And chocolate blessings upon you, oh net.ghoddess!
mark
mark
sund...@daac.gsfc.nasa.gov (Diana J. Sunday) wrote:
> (she dons her asbestos cloak while dropping into a defensive crouch, ready
> to deflect the fireballs...)
Why?
<snip>
> Also, for fun and giggles, there's always Gordon R. Dickson's dragon books,
> beginning with "The Dragon and the George."
>
Personally, I want the Full Story that we only heard part of in Kurland's
"Unicorn Girl", where the elderly female dragon was telling the
dragonettes about the story of Ethyl the Martyr and the Man in the
Tin Suit....
mark, the Silverdragon
mark
Jencina <jen...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> On 30 Jan 1995, Janice Barlow wrote:
>
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the early basis of the Church of All
> > Worlds rooted deeply in the literature of Robert Heinlein?
>
> Yep. _Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land_ to be precise. The Church of All
> Worlds (in the book) was founded by Michael Valentine Smith, "The Man
> from Mars." An interesting side-note on CAW: Heinlein was apalled by the
> formation of this church. (See _Grumbles_from_the_Grave_.) It was his
> intent to make folks question their blind beliefs, not to create a whole
> new set of beliefs for folks to blindly follow.
>
Haven't read GFtG, but I was under the impression Heinlein found it
interesting. At least, folks have mentioned that he used to occasionally
read Green Egg. And, though I'm not a member of CAW, I never got the
idea that anyone over there followed *anyone* blindly....
On another note, for *non*-mind candy, I just finished Robin McKinley's
Deerskin. Note: do *not* read this book if you dislike a story if people
get *really* hurt (as opposed to comic-book-style stuff, where no one's
ever *really* hurt...). You *will* cry by the end of this one, and it
has a *truly* magickal ending (and McKinley never cops out, anywhere).
Oh, and you'll love it if you like dogs.
mark
Mark Metson
: In article <D3Lrw...@cunews.carleton.ca>,
: jfo...@chat.carleton.ca (j foulds) wrote:
: > The historical fact of the matter is that the Prince did die. If she
: > was to remain true to the history then the Prince had to die.
: >
: Yeah, well, I figured that out; the point I was making was that her
: plotting was lacking; she did not, for me (or my Lady) set up her
: plot in such a manner as to *require* that he die.
My impression was that the Prince decided the Prince was going to die,
and being a Prince, he was not dissuaded from it. Perhaps Grey should
have worked harder on his 'charm person' spell the better to dissuade him.
Blessed Be. -MarkM-
(Writing direct from my freenet account as my routing at home is scrwey
today. Happens everytime they try to 'fix' it. ;-) )
--
How many mystics does it take to change a lightbulb?
Mystics Don't need lightbulbs: they're Illuminated.
Xenoxyst
two can be purchased? They sound good.
thanks,
Xenoxyst
Anamara
Patricia Kennealy's Keltic saga of Aeron. (The Throne of Scone, The Silver
Branch, The Copper Crown). Set in a science-fiction setting in which our
pagan keltic ancestors were able to flee this earth before the great
apocalypse known as saint patrick defiled Ireland. Excellent reading, and
since she's a high priestess, the underlying facts are correct.
These books really led me to my faith in the Celtic Pantheon.
Right now, she's part way through a saga about Arthur. I really hate
Arthurian books. Far to many of them in my opinion. But since this one
ties in with the Aeron books, and she takes an entirely new "science
fictional" view of the story, I find it to be very enjoyable.
just my point o' view.