Where can I download older versions of PC-Linux-Os?

[compute...@example.invalid]

I am not really a linux user, but I have installed Pc-Linux-Os on a
spare computer and like playing with it. This is the first an only linux
that both installed without problems, and that I understand as a Windows
user.

I know that several years ago, Pc-Linux-OS changed to only 64 bit.
(Which seems rather sad to me, since they had a good OS that ran on
older hardware). I have no intention to buy a 64 bit computer, or any
computer with Windows 8.x or 10. I like Windows XP and also Win98se. And
I have lots of old computers that will run those OSs or Pc-Linux-OS.

Although I am pretty satisfied with this version of Pc-Linux, which is
from 2009, I want to try their most current version of it, which is
still 32 bit. After spending several hours online, I found that the last
32bit version was made in July of 2013. So, that is the one I want to
download.

The problem is that everytime I want to download it, I am taken to their
own homepage, and given their most current 64bit version. I cant seem to
find anywhere to download that 2013 version.

Do any of you know any website that has the older version available for
downloading?

Thanks

[andrew]

On 2017-10-24, compute...@example.invalid <compute...@example.invalid> wrote:

> Do any of you know any website that has the older version available
> for downloading?

I have not tested these downloads but this might be what you are looking
for:

https://ftp.sjtu.edu.cn/sites/www.pclinuxos.com/pclinuxos/live-cd/

Andrew
--
Do you think that's air you're breathing?

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> I want to try their most current version of it, which is
> still 32 bit. After spending several hours online, I found that the last
> 32bit version was made in July of 2013. So, that is the one I want to
> download.

There is a 32bit 2013 PCLOS in several versions; 3 different KDEs, an
LXDE and a Mate. I would take one of the KDEs, which are 'regular',
full-monty, and minime.

Here are http dl sites from 5 different countries
http://iso.linuxquestions.org/pclinuxos/pclinuxos-2013.12/#x86

I found that from an answer to a question in the pclos forum.

Here are other old and new release links at linuxquestions
http://iso.linuxquestions.org/pclinuxos/

There are also 32 bits from 2014, such as 2014.12 in a KDE, full monty,
LXDE, and Mate.

--
Mike Easter

[RonB]

I would be more tempted to go with a modern, light desktop, like Xfce or
LXDE (? – I think that's the right name). Xfce can be configured to look and
act a lot like traditional Windows (is configured that way by default for
Linux Mint). LXDE, I think, is almost always configured to look and act like
the older Windows versions. Of course I don't know how old the hardware is,
but Linux Mint Xfce runs acceptably on my 2003 Latitude D400 (Pentium M, 1.2
Mhz) with 1 GB of RAM.

--
The more I see of Windows, the more I like Linux.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:10:11 -0400, <compute...@example.invalid> wrote:

> Although I am pretty satisfied with this version of Pc-Linux, which is
> from 2009, I want to try their most current version of it, which is
> still 32 bit. After spending several hours online, I found that the last
> 32bit version was made in July of 2013. So, that is the one I want to
> download.

If the computer running it will be connected to the internet, it's not a
good idea to run with such an old version. 2014 alone had shellshock,
heartbleed, poodle, etc.
https://blogs.akamai.com/2014/10/poodle-shellshock-and-heartbleed-resources.html

While it will take a small amount of getting used to the differences
between distros, I highly recommend switch to one that does still
support 32 bit systems, such as Mageia.
https://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwho...@nomail.afraid.org to davidw...@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> compute...@example.invalid wrote:

>> I want to try their most current version of it, which is still 32
>> bit. After spending several hours online, I found that the last
>> 32bit version was made in July of 2013. So, that is the one I want
>> to download.

> I found that from an answer to a question in the pclos forum.

This is about the 32bit fork support. In the PCLOS forum, a thread says:

- Hi all I need a 32 bit Pclinuxos for a friends old i686. All I seem
to find are 64 bit versions. Thanks
- When 32 bit was dropped the 32 bit was forked and maintained,
elsewhere. Try here:
http://www.liberainformatica.it/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=25 . This is
the English version, the main forum is Italian.
- You can find the original official iso and rpm's at
http://archives.pclosusers.com

Then, at liberainformatica, the fork support site explains itself:

- 3. We are people who have decided to try to continue development
PCLinuxOS 32bit under similar name, UPLOS.
Official PCLinuxOS 32bit has ended. (
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php...448.0.html )
Any attempt write about 32bit on http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/ may be
removed.

UPLOS in assumption will
- the same as PCLinuxOS 64bit, but 32bit.
- the name from PCLinuxOS to UPLOS was changed deliberately, in order to
avoid misunderstandings.

http://www.liberainformatica.it/forum/showthread.php?tid=322
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,142346.msg1215981.html#msg1215981


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter cited:

> - 3. We are people who have decided to try to continue development
> PCLinuxOS 32bit under similar name, UPLOS.

If you continue to follow the breadcrumbs for UPLOS, you will find 2017
releases and supported repos. The available DEs of the .en versions are
XFCE, Mate, and LXDE. The Trinity DE v. is localized in .it but also
has an .en localization feature.

http://www.liberainformatica.it/isos-of-uplos/


There is a significant problem with continuing to use a distro version
which is no longer supported by its developers, ie PCLOS in 32 bit. We
depend on the updates for the distro to provide security fixes for us.
When a version is no longer so supported, that stops happening.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

RonB wrote:
> Linux Mint Xfce runs acceptably on my 2003 Latitude D400 (Pentium M, 1.2
> Mhz) with 1 GB of RAM.

I have a Mint 17.3 XFCE doing nicely on a similar cpu/ram Dell laptop
handed down from a friend. That is now my oldest and weakest hardware;
that old cpu /does/ do SSE2; another oldie of mine which didn't do SSE2
recently died.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:56:26 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Thanks to all who replied. I ams sort of glad to see they are still
working with the 32 bit version with Uplos. I only wish more of their
webpages were in English.

At this point, I think I'll stick with a slightly newer version of
Pc-Linux though. Being new to Linux, I'll rather stick with something
that works and makes sense to me. Actually I am quite pleased with that
2009 version and since it's not connected to the internet, I am not
worried about malware. What I like about it, is that it's a lot like
Windows 98, and that is still my preferred OS of all time, even though I
use XP a lot now, because 98 dont work well on the internet anymore due
to old browsers.

One thing about linux that puzzles the heck out of me is why there are
so many desktops and why they cant all be on the same install, and
selectable, so a user can try all of them without having to keep making
new CDs or reinstalling.

What I do know, is that when I was trying out other distros, certain
desktops caused an immediate video crash. The screen turrned into
colored blobs and was worthless.

What I do know is that this 2009 version I have, has KDE. I dont have a
clue what full-monty, and minime means, or what differs. I assume I have
standard KDE and that works fine.

All I do know, is that PcLinuxOs is sort of interesting and fun to play
with. At least this 2009 one. I have never found any other linux I could
make work, or understand.

I will probably always be a Windows user, but I am stuck with Win98 and
XP. I would not touch Windows 8.x or 10, if it was given to me free. I
have never owned Win7, but might give it a try someday if I can get it
cheap. Either way, I dont like the direction that MS has gone with their
bloated spyware operating systems. I've been looking for an alternative
and this PcLinux seem to be it.

One thing I have noted about Linux, is that they are going the same
route of making everything bloated too. I have to ask, why no one at MS
or Linux can get it thru their thick heads that some of us just want
SIMPLE.

I dont want power, I dont play games, I dont want shit dancing around on
my screen, I cant afford to keep buying new computers, when I have at
least 10 older ones that work. I use the internet, edit photos, listen
to music and watch videos, plus some "office" work. I dont need or want
all the crap they put on modern computers, and I refuse to allow MS to
spy on me too!

One last comment, I was running PcLinux from a flash drive, but I
recently bought an extra harddrive so I could install it to the HDD.
Presently I have it on my best computer, but I have to swap hard drives
between PcLinux and XP. I'd like to get both on the same drive, but I
did not want to chance wrecking my XP install. In all honesty, when I
installed PCLinux, I was really not sure what some of the things were
asking me to do. Especially the formatting of the HDD, it said I needed
3 partitions but only setup two. (but it works). That in itself had me
lost. Most of the time I just hit ENTER and let it do whatever it
wanted. The drive was blank anyhow.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:54:12 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Since this is not connected to the internet, I am not too worried about
security. I only have available dialup internet at home, and I would not
even know how to connect my external moden to PcLinux (except to plug it
in). These days I only use my dialup for email and newsgroups. Both work
fine on Win98. to use the web, I have to drive to a WIFI spot and use my
laptop (Win XP). I guess nothing I use is supported anymore....

You keep mentioning DEs. What does that mean?"

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 23:17:14 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Mint seems to be the most popular of all.
About 3 years ago, I went on a linux binge, to try all sorts of distros.
I downloaded a bunch of ISOs, burned them to a flash drive, and tried to
boot the computer. A few of them worked, but seemed too hard to
understand. Most of them would load and as soon as it was loaded, my
screen would turn into a mess of colors and all I could do was turn off
the computer. But Mint was probably the worst of all. Several desktop
types and each time it simply locked up my computer completely, before
it ever loaded. The computer is from 2008. Same one I have PcLinux on,
or XP.The computer was custom built in 2008 and sold for over $1200. It
was considered top of the line back then. I bought it from the original
owner, and learned the whole history of it. It once ran Vista. I bought
it in 2013, I wiped the drive and put XP on it.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> You keep mentioning DEs. What does that mean?"

DE = desktop environment

Each v. of Win had one DE with which you are familiar in W98 & XP.

The 'principle' DE for PCLOS has been KDE (but with alternatives). Over
the years, KDE has evolved. The PCLOS 2009 KDE vintage was a KDE3,
which 'culminated' with 3.5 and then the KDEs went into KDE4.

The efficiency and popularity of KDE3.5 over the early KDE4s was such
that a fork developed continuing to support that KDE called Trinity DE.

Trinity uses Qt3 libraries, which are also now passe, so that is also
forked into TQt. IMO Trinity is a nice efficient desktop based on the
KDE3.5 like TDE.

KDE4 has now been left behind in favor of KDE5 Plasma, but there are
still people and distros which are based on KDE4.

The other 'major' DE for linux has been Gnome which has also evolved
greatly in the same time frame. Gnome's libraries are GTK+ (instead of
Qt) and the gnome development in the same time frame as your 2009 was at
v.2.x using gtk2; but since then gnome has moved into the v.3.x on gtk3.

Those advances and evolution lead to both improvements and the use of
more resources.

Gnome2's popularity led to a fork which is now Mate. Gnome3's initial
unpopularity led to forks such as Cinnamon, a DE of growing popularity.

Those of us who have broadband connectivity and can download scads of
different linux distros like to try out the various DEs on the various
distributions.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> About 3 years ago, I went on a linux binge, to try all sorts of distros.
> I downloaded a bunch of ISOs, burned them to a flash drive, and tried to
> boot the computer. A few of them worked, but seemed too hard to
> understand. Most of them would load and as soon as it was loaded, my
> screen would turn into a mess of colors and all I could do was turn off
> the computer. But Mint was probably the worst of all. Several desktop
> types and each time it simply locked up my computer completely, before
> it ever loaded. The computer is from 2008. Same one I have PcLinux on,
> or XP.The computer was custom built in 2008 and sold for over $1200. It
> was considered top of the line back then. I bought it from the original
> owner, and learned the whole history of it. It once ran Vista. I bought
> it in 2013, I wiped the drive and put XP on it.
>

It is likely that boot-up video problems experienced with 2014 linux
versions on a 2008 computer could have been worked around and resolved.
If we were working on the problem, the essential information would be
what the computer's ram and cpu and video card or vid card-like
capabilities are. That helps to determine which 'kind' of linux might
be good to try; but the personal likes and dislikes of the interface are
up to the individual user.

The most common way of getting around boot-up video 'incompatibilities'
are to make a modification/change to the default boot command line
before the boot starts.

On my Vista-era laptop, lots of different linuxes do fine and it has an
'experimental' Win7 installed.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> Since this is not connected to the internet, I am not too worried about
> security. I only have available dialup internet at home, and I would not
> even know how to connect my external moden to PcLinux (except to plug it
> in). These days I only use my dialup for email and newsgroups. Both work
> fine on Win98. to use the web, I have to drive to a WIFI spot and use my
> laptop (Win XP). I guess nothing I use is supported anymore....

The 'world' between broadband connectivity to the internet and dialup is
vast. I like to tinker with dialup, but default dialup support has been
dropped from many linux distros. A typical external dialup modem which
is connected by the serial port works well with linux because the
modem's hardware functions and controller have not been replaced by
software, as is the case with soft modems or 'winmodems' which almost
all internal modems are. My preferred linux distro for dialup is Puppy,
a 'retro' version with more dialup support.

What you are describing in terms of XP + wifi hotspot has immense
security risks because of -1- the OS and its browser integration
weaknesses -2- the vulnerability of the wifi connectivity in a public
wifi hotspot.

My location has had ready availability of broadband connectivity since
W95. By the time WinMe came along, my parents were interested in
acquiring a computer which a shop built and equipped with W98se and I
began to 'appreciate' some of the difficulties of dialup modem
connectivity in a small town in central Texas.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:09:30 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

DE = desktop environment......
And I kept thinking Distro (something).....
Now I know.....

Thanks for describing the DEs. That can get quite confusing.

Linux itself is confusing, because there are too many varieties.
Just the opposite of Windows, which has too few varities.

The fact that MS FORCES us to upgrade is something that seriously annoys
me. I dont want their latest bloated crap. I like XP and Win98. If MS
really cared for the customers they would not only continue to support
their older OSs, but would offer several different varieties. I'm
elderly, and I dont want to keep relearning my computer. They seem to
make it so no one can ever learn to REALLY use their computer. I have
used 98 and XP so long I can make them sing and dance with my eyes
closed. Esp 98, since 98 was the last MS OS that allowed the user to
control their computer. XP began the era where MS controls things, but
XP was not too bad yet.

I know a lot of older persons like myself still use XP and dont want to
relearn or want all the crap that comes with the newer versions. If MS
at least offerred tow versions. Their current bloated crap, and a simple
OS that just works easily. I'd be a lot more supportive.

Anyhow, I find Linux to be real confusing before it's even installed
because there are too many variations to choose from. I have at least
found something I like, and am just learning to use it and understand
it. All I want to do at this point is to upgrade a few versions and see
how that works for me. I can always go back to what I now have too.

I guess that means sticking with KDE. If I go to a 2011 or a 2013 (32
bit( version with KDE, which version of KDE will I have, and is it much
different than what I have with the 2009 one? I find it a little hard to
understand what changes in a DE? I can change my own wallpaper, and
colors, so what really changes?

One problem I keep having with PCLOS is that I am in a habit of double
clicking in Windows, so I keep doing that in PCLOS and keep opening
double windows. Not a huge problem, but it's hard to change my clicking
habits after double clicking for several decades.

One last question. In windows and windows programs, I can click on ABOUT
in the menu bar and that tells me that I have Windows XP Pro SP3, or I
have Firefox 27.0.1, or something like that. What do I click on in Linux
that tells me that I have PCLOS 2009, (some month or version number) and
have KDE version (xxx). and other possible info.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:32:23 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Sometime when I have XP plugged into that computer, I'll run CPU-ID and
tell you all the hardware. That program runs on Win95 and up (not sure
of the new OSs), and tells everything about the computer and will save
it as a text file.

One problem I had with booting PCLOS 2009 was that it would not boot
from a flash drive in the default mode. I had to select the Safe Boot
VESA. Then it worked fine. Once I installed it to a HDD, it boots just
fine in regular mode, and saves me from having to select ENGLISH and all
that stuff. Plus I installed it without needing a password. (I hate
bootup passwords, no one else uses my computer anyhow).

Can one modify the default boot on a flash drive boot?

Curious, did Win7 install and work fine on a Vista era computer?

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> One thing about linux that puzzles the heck out of me is why there are
> so many desktops and why they cant all be on the same install, and
> selectable, so a user can try all of them without having to keep making
> new CDs or reinstalling.

The answer to so many desktops is based on freedom and open source.

Underneath is the linux kernel which provides a platform for people to
build an OS around. People who develop like most to work on what they
like most, and their ideas about how to do something vary.

Even in commercially successful linux development environments where
there is structure for profit like RedHat, the open source principles
apply and there are plenty of derivatives of the parent.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:46:19 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

I hate internal modems....
I have always used a USR V92 external.

Yea, I know I am not real secure with a public WIFI, but my web use is
mostly just looking up information for machinery repairs, downloading
stuff like linux distros watching youtube and a little shopping on ebay.

I dont have any other choice. I live in a rural area where there is no
affordable internet except dialup. Satellite with TV and all of that is
my only other option, and that would cost well over $100 per month.
Being retired, I cant afford it.

In a way, I almost have my own private WIFI. I know the owners of a
local restaurant and they gave me permission to use their WIFI after
they are closed at night. I know where to park to get the best signal
and I can use their WIFI in my car. When I save youtube videos, I can
get up to 1.2megs per second. That's darn fast after using dialup, and
my dialup is usually at 16K to 24K bps because I have a noisy line.
After rainstorms I cant even connect because the line hums so bad.

Dialup sucks, but it's better than no internet at all. When it gets too
annoying, I drive the 6 miles to town and use the WIFI.

I have used Puppy linux. It works but is not as user friendly as PCLOS.
But that is one of the few other Linuxs that have loaded without
problems.

The one thing I recall about Puppy is that it's always bugging me about
drives being mounted or not mounted and that in itself is something I
dont understand. PCLOS just works and dont bug me with crap like that.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> Curious, did Win7 install and work fine on a Vista era computer?

To be perfectly honest, I didn't have a purchased MS license for Win7
available to be installed on the computer of my choice, so I
'temporarily' employed an experimental Win7 called Tiny 7 on the Vista
laptop, which is a somewhat leaner Win7 and doesn't require product
activation. If I were going to be completely 'legal' on that machine, I
would replace the Tiny7 part with a modern linux, which would actually
have some distinct advantages over Win7/Tiny7.

I also have refurbed Win7 computers which have legitimate refurb/er Win7
licenses, like an OEM Win7 except without the added OEM bloatware/payware.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> Yea, I know I am not real secure with a public WIFI, but my web use is
> mostly just looking up information for machinery repairs, downloading
> stuff like linux distros watching youtube and a little shopping on ebay.
>
> I dont have any other choice. I live in a rural area where there is no
> affordable internet except dialup. Satellite with TV and all of that is
> my only other option, and that would cost well over $100 per month.
> Being retired, I cant afford it.

That rural area connectivity problem is very real. The people who are
offering sat TV plus internet (and phone) are not providing the internet
(or phone) the same way as they do the TV. They provide the phone and
internet via DSL tech using the copper wires of the telephone system.

> In a way, I almost have my own private WIFI. I know the owners of a
> local restaurant and they gave me permission to use their WIFI after
> they are closed at night. I know where to park to get the best signal
> and I can use their WIFI in my car. When I save youtube videos, I can
> get up to 1.2megs per second.

Borrowing the restaurant's wifi connectivity is much better/safer than
the open public wifi hotspot elsewhere because of the absence of
nefarious interlopers who might be around a public wifi hotspot.

> That's darn fast after using dialup, and my dialup is usually at 16K
> to 24K bps because I have a noisy line. After rainstorms I cant even
> connect because the line hums so bad.

That does not bode well for the possibility of DSL broadband
connectivity over the old copper.

> Dialup sucks, but it's better than no internet at all. When it gets too
> annoying, I drive the 6 miles to town and use the WIFI.

Do you happen to know how your local restaurant friends who let you use
their wifi connect to the internet? Is 6 miles to the restaurant
friends or to the public hotspot?

> I have used Puppy linux. It works but is not as user friendly as PCLOS.
> But that is one of the few other Linuxs that have loaded without
> problems.

There are probably as many 'puppy lovers' as there are pclos lovers.
They both draw friend-users and developers.

If you wanted to use the dialup for such as newsgroups or email on the
PCLOS, the tool you would need would be the KPPP dialup 'gizmo' under
KDE. I don't know whether that is installed by default on pclos 2009.

It is always a problem when some 'piece' needed for connectivity isn't
available on a distro's default apps, because then you can't just fetch
that piece from the repos because you aren't connected. It is a
catch-22, you need it to connect but you can't get it because you aren't
yet.

> The one thing I recall about Puppy is that it's always bugging me about
> drives being mounted or not mounted and that in itself is something I
> dont understand. PCLOS just works and dont bug me with crap like that.

The most typical use of Puppy is its running live in ram after having
been booted from such as a USB stick. And when it is shutting down, it
most typically wants to provide the option of saving its condition to be
persistent the next time it is booted up. It does that by saving a file
or files on the Windows part.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:

>> The 'principle' DE for PCLOS has been KDE (but with alternatives). Over
>> the years, KDE has evolved. The PCLOS 2009 KDE vintage was a KDE3,
>> which 'culminated' with 3.5 and then the KDEs went into KDE4.
>>
>> The efficiency and popularity of KDE3.5 over the early KDE4s was such
>> that a fork developed continuing to support that KDE called Trinity DE.
>>
>> Trinity uses Qt3 libraries, which are also now passe, so that is also
>> forked into TQt. IMO Trinity is a nice efficient desktop based on the
>> KDE3.5 like TDE.
>>
>> KDE4 has now been left behind in favor of KDE5 Plasma, but there are
>> still people and distros which are based on KDE4.
>>

> Linux itself is confusing, because there are too many varieties.
> Just the opposite of Windows, which has too few varities.
>
> The fact that MS FORCES us to upgrade is something that seriously annoys
> me. I dont want their latest bloated crap. I like XP and Win98. If MS
> really cared for the customers they would not only continue to support
> their older OSs, but would offer several different varieties. I'm
> elderly, and I dont want to keep relearning my computer. They seem to
> make it so no one can ever learn to REALLY use their computer. I have
> used 98 and XP so long I can make them sing and dance with my eyes
> closed. Esp 98, since 98 was the last MS OS that allowed the user to
> control their computer. XP began the era where MS controls things, but
> XP was not too bad yet.
>
> I know a lot of older persons like myself still use XP and dont want to
> relearn or want all the crap that comes with the newer versions. If MS
> at least offerred tow versions. Their current bloated crap, and a simple
> OS that just works easily. I'd be a lot more supportive.

It is very reasonable to continue to use W98 & XP on old hardware as
long as you 'respect' your limitations. In your case, a significant
part of your computer activities are NOT online browsing; those work
fine for the old OSes. For your wifi-related browsing, I think you
should use linux instead. It is likely that you could use a modern
secure browser in addition to it being an inherently more secure OS than XP.

I also 'like' to see people who are interested in linux using their
linux when they are commiserating on usenet; but that means that they
would need to be online with linux and also find a linux newsreader they
like. Some people who like old Agent, as you are using, don't like
other news readers available in linux. Some Agent users use Agent under
Wine, an app that allows you to use some Win apps in linux.

If I were using a old KDE (or TDE), I might check out KNode. It isn't
available in KDE5, but it was through KDE4.

> Anyhow, I find Linux to be real confusing before it's even installed
> because there are too many variations to choose from. I have at least
> found something I like, and am just learning to use it and understand
> it. All I want to do at this point is to upgrade a few versions and see
> how that works for me. I can always go back to what I now have too.
>
> I guess that means sticking with KDE. If I go to a 2011 or a 2013 (32
> bit( version with KDE, which version of KDE will I have, and is it much
> different than what I have with the 2009 one? I find it a little hard to
> understand what changes in a DE? I can change my own wallpaper, and
> colors, so what really changes?

By moving up to 2011-13 versions you will be moving up to KDE4s. After
some initial 'adjustments' KDE4 became as popular as KDE3, but it needs
more resources. One reason that some people like TDE/Trinity is because
it is KDE3.5 based but is also being well maintained. If your resources
are low, the TDE might work out better than a KDE4 PCLOS.

> One problem I keep having with PCLOS is that I am in a habit of double
> clicking in Windows, so I keep doing that in PCLOS and keep opening
> double windows. Not a huge problem, but it's hard to change my clicking
> habits after double clicking for several decades.

I don't have that interface in front of me, but KDE offers plenty of
control for such as single/double click.

> One last question. In windows and windows programs, I can click on ABOUT
> in the menu bar and that tells me that I have Windows XP Pro SP3, or I
> have Firefox 27.0.1, or something like that. What do I click on in Linux
> that tells me that I have PCLOS 2009, (some month or version number) and
> have KDE version (xxx). and other possible info.

Offhand, I don't know how to direct you because I don't usually use a
KDE and also not a KDE3. I might download the TDE UPLOS 2017 and boot
it up and see how its interface is.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
>
> Offhand, I don't know how to direct you because I don't usually use a
> KDE and also not a KDE3. I might download the TDE UPLOS 2017 and boot
> it up and see how its interface is.
>

I'm trying to download a PCLOS 2015 Trinity, but the site is extremely
slow, predicting days to dl. Altho' I'm a little leery of a primarily
.it version with .en support, maybe it will be faster to check out the
uplos 2017 TDE.

Hmmm. uplos isn't so fast either.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> Hmmm. uplos isn't so fast either.

The uplos dl is extremely slow; the archives.pclosusers site is not even
slow, it is stopped.

Now I've found 3 different sites for a TDE pclos; each one is 'moving'
at a few K per second; at this rate none of them will be dl/ed any time
soon. The uplos is 2017; the other two are unofficial 3rd party vs
community from 2015 Sep/Oct.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 11:13:28 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

I was trying to look at the UPLOS site on dialup. I did manage to see
it, but it was extremely slow to load. Then I found much of it in
another language.

There was a FTP link posted in this thread. That seems pretty complete
for older versions of PCLOS. I clicked on one of them and a download
started. Of course I canceled it on my dialup. It said it would take
over 14 days to download. (1.6gb or so).

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:12:18 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>Do you happen to know how your local restaurant friends who let you use
>their wifi connect to the internet? Is 6 miles to the restaurant
>friends or to the public hotspot?
>
>>

There is no public hotspot in town, unless you include the public
library. The town is small, and there are only 2 WIFI spots available to
the public. The restaurant and the library. I heard that one of the bars
has it too, but I never checked. I know if I look at them downtown, I
see around 20 secured WIFIs from the businesses, but they wont do me any
good. Either way, it's a 6 mile drive to town.

One thing I noticed is the library WIFI is very weak outside the
building. Even with their large glass windows. They must have a low
powered setup. It works fine inside, but they have a dozen terminals
(public computers) and when they are all in use, it can get real slow.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:

Earlier you mentioned wishing for an .iso which would do multiple
distros and I went to the Linux AIO site to see the latest lineup.

I was very pleased to find an AIO PCLOS package for 32 bit; it contains
3 different 2014.12 DEs, KDE, LXDE, and Mate. Then when I went to its
dl site at sourceforge, I was even more pleased to find a torrent there.
However, the torrent 'didn't work' - stalled - because there weren't
any seeds or peers; but sourceforge also had the big fat .iso there, so
I'm downloading it now at a better speed than any of the others, about
200 KB/s; that's about 10-20x as fast as the really pokey sites, but
also it is a 3.2G .iso, so it will still take a while.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> There is no public hotspot in town, unless you include the public
> library. The town is small, and there are only 2 WIFI spots available to
> the public. The restaurant and the library.

But, my question is still related to the connectivity of the library
and/or the restaurant to the internet. Do you know how they connect?
If they are broadband, I assume that they are DSL or cable and if it is
a small town, maybe there isn't any cable.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:53:30 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

It's good to hear that they have that. Big file though....
200kbs is about 100 times faster than dialup. Most the time I get 1.5 to
2 kbs. When I am at the WIFI and try to download 5 or 6 videos at the
same time, each one is running at around 200kbs. But that makes sense
because if I only do one at a time, I get 1.0 to 1.2 mps.

I have never used torrents. I just use Http or Ftp sites. I have to look
in this thread again, for that FTP site. I usually make a text file for
all the sites I plan ot visit when I am at a WIFI, but we had a power
glitch today and I had not saved my file, so I lost it. I can never
understand why the power goes off for 30 seconds for no reason. No
storms or anything???? But thats part of living in a rural area.

Maybe that version is in there. That FTP has a lot of versions, but it
dont go back to 2009 though. I still have a 2007 iso saved too.

I am assuming that when there are multiple DEs, that they can be
toggled, or is that not the case, and each one needs to be installed
separately????

I still recall when I was using Windows 3.x, they had a program called
"Dashboard". That thing changed the desktop look for Windows. That's
probably the only thing of that sort made for Windows.

I know if I had to use Windows 8.x or 10, I could not stand that Metro
look. YUK!!! On my Win98 setup, I have many icons that I made myself on
my desktop. I used to like making my own look.... That was before MS
decided that we must all use the same thing, and made it butt ugly too.

By the way, thanks for all your help. It's good to find people on
newsgroups who still care enough to help others. Most of these
newsgroups have gone to hell and turned into nothing but people calling
names to others or ranting politics.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 15:57:03 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

I did not understand what you were asking. There is cable tv in town,
(only in the town itself). I assume they use that. There is no satellite
dish on the restaurant, and they have tv sets in there, which are not on
an antenna. I can only assume they are using cable. As for the library,
I never looked, but I would guess they also use cable.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 00:46:19 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:
On https://ftp.sjtu.edu.cn/sites/www.pclinuxos.com/pclinuxos/live-cd/
There is a "pclinuxos-kde-2014.12.iso"

Next to it, there's
"pclinuxos-kde-2014.12-packagelist.txt"

I opened that text file and it lists
A whole bunch of KDE stuff.

(copied)
kde-accessibility-kaccessible-4.14.3
kde-allgames-4.14.3
kde-allgames-help-4.14.3
kde-artwork-4.14.3
kde-artwork-color-schemes-4.14.3
kde-artwork-emoticons-4.14.3
kde-artwork-icons-theme-nuvola-4.14.3
kde-artwork-kscreensaver-4.14.3
kde-artwork-sounds-4.14.3
kde-artwork-styles-4.14.3
kde-artwork-wallpapers-4.14.3
kde-baseapps-4.14.3
kde-baseapps-core-4.14.3

Does this mean that the entire KDE desktop on that version is 4.14.3?

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> Does this mean that the entire KDE desktop on that version is 4.14.3?
>

Yes.

That KDE4 has advantages and disadvantages (to you) compared to other v.
levels of KDE such as KDE3.x and KDE5 (current).

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> I did not understand what you were asking. There is cable tv in town,
> (only in the town itself). I assume they use that. There is no satellite
> dish on the restaurant, and they have tv sets in there, which are not on
> an antenna. I can only assume they are using cable. As for the library,
> I never looked, but I would guess they also use cable.

Ah, so. I get it. Town cable.

If you were living in an area without too many hills and canyons,
'flatland', it would be possible for a number of rural folks to get
together and 'attach' to that town cable connectivity by way of a
wireless signal from the rural homes to the town antenna connected to
the cable.

It doesn't sound like the copper to the rural homes in your area is all
that great (dialup connectivity interference), or that the distance from
some home such as yours to what the phone people call a CO (switching
center) might be great. So, the chances for a DSL internet account
aren't 'reasonable'. For good dsl/adsl that distance to the CO needs to
be within a few miles.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> I am assuming that when there are multiple DEs, that they can be
> toggled, or is that not the case, and each one needs to be installed
> separately????

Linux AIO (all-in-one) puts together a 'bunch' of different packages of
distros, most often a particular v. # of such as Mint or Ubuntu or
whichever major distro in its various DEs. After you dl the .iso, check
its hash, write it to USB or optical, then you boot it and you are
provided the option of which DE you want to boot live.

From that, if you like, generally you can install from the live.
Occasionally/Rarely not, depending on the distro.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:08:24 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

If this was not confusing enough, there is listed KDE Fullmonty and
Minime. I assume that is some variation of KDE, but what does it mean?

Is minime a small (mini) version?

Who the heck is Monty and what is is he full of? :)

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:48:41 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

It's real hilly around here, and I am way down a hill, so I can only get
tv stations located on the low side of the hill by antenna.
My phone connection box along the road is a mile away. From the road to
my home is 2/3 mile and that box is on the other side of a crop field
too.

What software do you use to write an ISO to a flash drive? I have used
unetbootin, but half the time it refuses to work. It says it's creating
the thing, and it puts files on the flash drive, but it wont boot. Also,
for some weird reason, I cant create a bootable flash drive if the drive
is over 4gb. Several years ago, I bought 10 1gb drives from ebay,
because they dont sell those small ones in the stores anymore. But now
the distros are so big, I need at least 2gb drives, and I only have one
of them below 4gb. Therefore I have to keep erasing that same one..

[J.O. Aho]

On 10/25/2017 12:10 AM, compute...@example.invalid wrote:

> I know that several years ago, Pc-Linux-OS changed to only 64 bit.
> (Which seems rather sad to me, since they had a good OS that ran on
> older hardware). I have no intention to buy a 64 bit computer, or any
> computer with Windows 8.x or 10. I like Windows XP and also Win98se. And
> I have lots of old computers that will run those OSs or Pc-Linux-OS.

Running a none supported Linux version is as bad as running microsoft
windows xp, it's a security hazard and it's not just affecting you but
each affected machine is affecting everyone else on internet.


Go for a long term supported distribution as for example LXLE ( lxle.net
), as then you know you have quite many years until it's time to upgrade.


--

//Aho

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> If this was not confusing enough, there is listed KDE Fullmonty and
> Minime. I assume that is some variation of KDE, but what does it mean?

It isn't really a KDE variation; it is a variation on how 'loaded' the
distro is with apps. PCLOS has a rep for providing a pretty loaded distro.

> Is minime a small (mini) version?

Yes; not loaded. More, medium, less versions.

> Who the heck is Monty and what is is he full of?:)

The Brits like to say 'the full monty' meaning what we USians call 'the
whole kit and caboodle'.

After that 'original' meaning (of uncertain etymology), there was a
movie comedy by that title in which The Full Monty meant a male
stripshow which was totally naked.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> It's real hilly around here, and I am way down a hill, so I can only get
> tv stations located on the low side of the hill by antenna.
> My phone connection box along the road is a mile away. From the road to
> my home is 2/3 mile and that box is on the other side of a crop field
> too.
>

So, some of your dialup interference with rain and such might be related
to problems outside the house. Historically, the 'phone company'
provider has been responsible for bringing satisfactory service to their
connection at the house and the customer is responsible for 'wiring'
problems inside the house, but the responsibility was interpreted to be
for voice quality as opposed to data, since the customer is paying for a
voice line, not a data line. So, if you are complaining to the phoneco,
it has to be about scratchy voice quality, not poor modem performance.

I don't know how current interpretations go, nor about the situation you
describe where 'someone' would troubleshoot what the quality of the
service is out there at that box along the road.

> What software do you use to write an ISO to a flash drive? I have used
> unetbootin, but half the time it refuses to work. It says it's creating
> the thing, and it puts files on the flash drive, but it wont boot.

My #1 preference is Rufus for Windows. It can't do multiboot like Yumi
nor persistence, but it is very 'strong' in being successful.

> Also,
> for some weird reason, I cant create a bootable flash drive if the drive
> is over 4gb. Several years ago, I bought 10 1gb drives from ebay,
> because they dont sell those small ones in the stores anymore. But now
> the distros are so big, I need at least 2gb drives, and I only have one
> of them below 4gb. Therefore I have to keep erasing that same one..
>

Whenever I encounter a good deal on another flash drive, I buy it, so I
have a variety of sizes and shapes. I only have one USB3 stick and 2
devices which can do USB3, one desktop and one chromebook. Mine range
from 1G to 32G. I'm presently writing that AIO PCLOS 32bit to a 4G USB.

Sometimes USB drives lie about their size.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> I'm presently writing that AIO PCLOS 32bit to a 4G USB.

I'm posting this from the PCLOS 32bit KDE using Tb on a 2G ram Vista era
laptop via my LAN wifi; info from inxi:


Kernel: 3.18.1-pclos1 i686 (32 bit)
Desktop: KDE 4.14.3 Distro: PCLinuxOS
Bios: Phoenix v: V1.03 date: 09/26/2008
CPU: Single core AMD Athlon 2650e (-UP-) cache: 512 KB
clocked at 800 MHz
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RS690M [Radeon Xpress
1200/1250/1270]
Display Server: X.Org 1.14.6 drivers: ati,v4l,radeon
Resolution: 1280...@60.00hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on ATI RS690 GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa
10.4.
Network: Card-1: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast Ethernet Controller
driver: sky2
IF: eth0 state: down
Card-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR242x / AR542x Wireless Network
Adapter (PCI-Express)
driver: ath5k
IF: wlan0 state: up

The KDE default apps has KPPP for dialup. When I boot this up in a
different location/computer that has a dialup modem attached, I'll see
if I can get a dialup connxn going.


--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

I guess you missed the part where I said its NOT connected to the
internet.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:42:47 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>compute...@example.invalid wrote:
>> If this was not confusing enough, there is listed KDE Fullmonty and
>> Minime. I assume that is some variation of KDE, but what does it mean?
>
>It isn't really a KDE variation; it is a variation on how 'loaded' the
>distro is with apps. PCLOS has a rep for providing a pretty loaded distro.
>

So it's the exact same DE, but the mini has less programs and the Monte
has a lot more.

>> Is minime a small (mini) version?
>
>Yes; not loaded. More, medium, less versions.
>
>> Who the heck is Monty and what is is he full of?:)
>
>The Brits like to say 'the full monty' meaning what we USians call 'the
>whole kit and caboodle'.

I never heard that before...

>
>After that 'original' meaning (of uncertain etymology), there was a
>movie comedy by that title in which The Full Monty meant a male
>stripshow which was totally naked.

Oh my!!! That Monty guy is quite a swinger :)

[Java Jive]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:25:19 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

> compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> > I did not understand what you were asking. There is cable tv in town,
> > (only in the town itself). I assume they use that. There is no satellite
> > dish on the restaurant, and they have tv sets in there, which are not on
> > an antenna. I can only assume they are using cable. As for the library,
> > I never looked, but I would guess they also use cable.
>
> Ah, so. I get it. Town cable.

But where? In what country?

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:01:30 -0500, compute...@example.invalid
wrote:

> Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: compute...@example.invalid
> Newsgroups: alt.os.linux
> Subject: Re: Where can I download older versions of PC-Linux-Os?
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:01:30 -0500
> Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server

So his post headers have a timezone of -0500, and the timing of his
posts correlates with this. At 15deg/hr, this places him, or perhaps
merely the server he's using, at a longitude of -75 or 75 deg E.
Naturally enough, the countries in that region are mostly foreign
language, all except those in the Indian sub-continent, and his
English is good, so I'm guessing that that is where he is.

That's not a particular problem in itself, but I would caution against
giving advice that assumes he is in a technological environment
similar to that of the US or the UK!
--
========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 02:57:38 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Glad you got it working. Funny thing, I just noticed that KPPP too, but
I only have one modem and I'm using it. I'll have to check ebay for a
second modem. I should have a spare anyhow, lightning likes to fry them,
even though I have not lost one in several years since I started to
unplug the phone line whenever I shut down.

The reason I noticed that, is because I went to the WIFI restaurant and
downloaded PCLOS-KDE 2010.12 and then I got PCLOS-KDE 2012.12. The
reason for the 2010 version was because it was downloading super slow.
That one was much smaller. While I was downloading that one I found this
site:
http://archives.pclosusers.com/isos/

That one works much faster. I just started the 2012 one to test out that
site and it caught up with the 2010 one, so I just let it finish.

I also solved the problem of writing to large USB drives. I downloaded
Universal-USB-Installer-1.9.7.9.exe
I was able to make bootable copies of both of these 2010 and 2012 PCLOS.
Using a 64gb flash drive.

I guess my problem was that unetbootin. It apparently dont work
right....

64gb is a big waste of a flash drive for this use, but I just got a deal
on these, and they were handy. (Walmart had them for $11).

The PCLOS 2010 is very similar to the 2009 one. The 2012 is nice, but is
a bit slow. Maybe it would be faster if I install it.

I am a little disappointed, the 2009 one has 4 desktops to choose from.
The 2012 only has one. I liked that feature with 4 desktops. Maybe this
one can be changed to allow 4 desktops, bu I have not yet learned how.

I did get some error that KDE deamon had a problem when it was booting.
I dont know what that means, I just hit the OK button.

One question. If I want to install this 2012 version, or if I get a
newer one than that, can I just run the install as an upgrade to the
2009 version that I already have installed, or must I start over?
(If I can upgrade, is there a special procedure or will it figure out
what to do by itself).


By the way, on that http://archives.pclosusers.com/isos/ site, I was
downloading at 750 to 800 kps.
Even though I can download MP4 files from youtube at 1.0 to 1.2 mps, I
did not think that the 750kps was too bad.

That other site was going as slow as 24kps and maxed out at 190kps. It
kept changing every few seconds.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 01:57:43 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>So, some of your dialup interference with rain and such might be related
>to problems outside the house. Historically, the 'phone company'
>provider has been responsible for bringing satisfactory service to their
>connection at the house and the customer is responsible for 'wiring'
>problems inside the house, but the responsibility was interpreted to be
>for voice quality as opposed to data, since the customer is paying for a
>voice line, not a data line. So, if you are complaining to the phoneco,
>it has to be about scratchy voice quality, not poor modem performance.
>
>I don't know how current interpretations go, nor about the situation you
>describe where 'someone' would troubleshoot what the quality of the
>service is out there at that box along the road.

It seems I have the phone company here at least twice a year. They do a
half assed fix, and thats all. Several times there was a problem up by
the road. Once a farmer tore up the wire with his plow. I wonder how
many times it's been spliced. When I moved here, I was living in a small
trailer house. Then I built an actual house. The phoneco wanted $350 to
$400 to move the wire. I refused, and ran my own wire from the old
trailer house to my new house. When I got rid of the old trailer, I put
a post in the ground and put the junction box on that post. So I still
have my own wire (about 80 ft) from that junction to the house. What
ticks me off, is that their feed wire is underground, only 15 ft from my
house, but the distance dont matter. I am not paying that much for them
to move it. I'll just stick with using my own wires. If it's screwed up,
I go to that post an hook up a test phone. They consider that to be the
(house connection), I guess.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:04:11 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

You're way off....
I'm in the North Central USA.
My time zone is Central Standard Time (currently daylight saving time).

I always speak English, unless I'm talking to my farm animals. Then I
speak their language, such as Bovine or Equine.....
I dont talk to the goat though, because he says everything is BAAAAD...

Then again, this is the internet. Posts may go halfway around the world
and end up at my neighbors house less than a mile away.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> Java Jive

>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, so. I get it. Town cable.
>>
>> But where? In what country?
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:01:30 -0500, compute...@example.invalid
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So his post headers have a timezone of -0500, and the timing of his
>> posts correlates with this. At 15deg/hr, this places him, or perhaps
>> merely the server he's using, at a longitude of -75 or 75 deg E.

JJ got his 15 degree math right, but he got mixed up about how the tz
offset sign is is written. The 5 hours is *west* of zero degrees.

> You're way off....
> I'm in the North Central USA.
> My time zone is Central Standard Time (currently daylight saving time).

There are certainly some rural areas in that zone :-)

> I always speak English, unless I'm talking to my farm animals. Then I
> speak their language, such as Bovine or Equine.....
> I dont talk to the goat though, because he says everything is BAAAAD...

... and he has eyes (and head/face) like the devil.




--
Mike Easter

[Java Jive]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:06:55 -0500, compute...@example.invalid
wrote:

Alright, but that's not the same TZ as your post headers, and to me in
the UK many of your posts are timed in the early hours of the morning,
which would suggest that your working hours are consistent with being
east of the UK, so I think you can understand my sounding a note of
caution.

> Then again, this is the internet. Posts may go halfway around the world
> and end up at my neighbors house less than a mile away.

Evidently!

[Java Jive]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:51:38 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:
>

> JJ got his 15 degree math right, but he got mixed up about how the tz
> offset sign is is written. The 5 hours is *west* of zero degrees.

Yes, my mistake.

[J.O. Aho]

I would say don't matter if it's not connected to the internet or not,
do not keep on with bad habits.


--

//Aho

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> By the way, on thathttp://archives.pclosusers.com/isos/ site, I was

> downloading at 750 to 800 kps.

You had much better luck with that site than I have. Besides the
getting the multi-DE AIO from sourceforge which is never very fast for
me, I have only completed a Trinity 2015 Sep from a
tde-mirror.yosemite.net site and the Trinity from the pclosusers site is
currently poking along about 10 KB/s, but it is about 85% finished.

> Even though I can download MP4 files from youtube at 1.0 to 1.2 mps, I
> did not think that the 750kps was too bad.

I would have loved to have gotten that speed.

> That other site was going as slow as 24kps and maxed out at 190kps. It
> kept changing every few seconds.

The 3 slow sites I've been messing with have all kinds of problems
besides slow; network problems that require 'resume'.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> I am a little disappointed, the 2009 one has 4 desktops to choose from.
> The 2012 only has one. I liked that feature with 4 desktops. Maybe this
> one can be changed to allow 4 desktops, bu I have not yet learned how.

The one I have has 2 which it calls desktop1 & 2; those are typically
called 'workspaces'. On my KDE that number is tweaked using the icon
for 'configure your desktop' which 2nd section is called 'workspace
appearance and behavior' which 7th section is called 'workspace
behavior' which 2nd section is called 'virtual desktops' where I can
change the number of desktops and their names.

In another section there/behavior I can change the /type/ of workspace
between desktop and netbook. I don't know what that is about.

I'm noticing that this default configuration of the live KDE causes 627
meg used to the desktop from free -m report. That is because it has
akonadi running 'already'. Some distros don't crank up akonadi stuff
unless you call some app that needs it.

Neon KDE5 does it like that and its KDE uses far less ram to the desktop
than Gnome or Cinnamon.

The machine I'm running pclos just now is a desktop which is of XP
vintage and also has 2G ram, but a considerably stronger/faster AMD CPU.
Altho' it has a winmodem, I'm not going to mess with that because I've
tried before. I'll wait until it is booted up on one with an external.


--
Mike Easter

[RonB]

On 2017-10-25, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>
> Offhand, I don't know how to direct you because I don't usually use a
> KDE and also not a KDE3. I might download the TDE UPLOS 2017 and boot
> it up and see how its interface is.

Trinity's Wiki has links to Trinity on Ubuntu 14.04 (32-bit and 64-bit) at:

http://tde-mirror.yosemite.net/trinity/cdimages/ubuntu/release/R14.0.4/

I'm downloading the 64-bit ISO just so I can see if I remember anything
about KDE 3 (the last version I used).

If original poster in this thread would like to try this, and if he has DVD
drive, I would be happy to download the ISO, burn it to a DVD and send it
him. (Unless he has a nearby friend who do this for him.)

I should mention that Trinity also has links to other distributions,
PCLinuxOS being one of them, but the page doesn't have 32-bit versions
(though they do mention that you can download the 32-bit version from –
apparently – somewhere on their site).

https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs

--
The more I see of Windows, the more I like Linux.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 07:51:38 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>compute...@example.invalid wrote:
>> Java Jive
>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, so. I get it. Town cable.
>>>
>>> But where? In what country?
>>>
>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:01:30 -0500, compute...@example.invalid
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So his post headers have a timezone of -0500, and the timing of his
>>> posts correlates with this. At 15deg/hr, this places him, or perhaps
>>> merely the server he's using, at a longitude of -75 or 75 deg E.
>
>
>JJ got his 15 degree math right, but he got mixed up about how the tz
>offset sign is is written. The 5 hours is *west* of zero degrees.

I figured that was the case!

>
>> You're way off....
>> I'm in the North Central USA.
>> My time zone is Central Standard Time (currently daylight saving time).
>
>There are certainly some rural areas in that zone :-)

Yep, lots of em' And this area is still in the 20th century as far as
technology.

>
>> I always speak English, unless I'm talking to my farm animals. Then I
>> speak their language, such as Bovine or Equine.....
>> I dont talk to the goat though, because he says everything is BAAAAD...
>
>... and he has eyes (and head/face) like the devil.

Especially on Halloween.... :)

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:58:40 +0100, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>> You're way off....
>> I'm in the North Central USA.
>> My time zone is Central Standard Time (currently daylight saving time).
>
>Alright, but that's not the same TZ as your post headers, and to me in
>the UK many of your posts are timed in the early hours of the morning,
>which would suggest that your working hours are consistent with being
>east of the UK, so I think you can understand my sounding a note of
>caution.
>

I'm just a night owl!!!

WHOOOOO ....

[Mike Easter]

RonB wrote:
> I should mention that Trinity also has links to other distributions,
> PCLinuxOS being one of them, but the page doesn't have 32-bit versions
> (though they do mention that you can download the 32-bit version from –
> apparently – somewhere on their site).

Theoretically, a 'solid' source of current 32bit PCLOS would be the .it
site liberainformatica which has assumed the role of forking and
maintaining current PCLOS as 32bit called UPLOS; *BUT* the site's
webserver is a terrible performer at making the .iso available for dl.

This is my 2nd day of working on it and I have a long way to go. It
requires continuous attention to resume the dl.

I've booted some other TDEs before; I especially like the distro of the
developer of Q4OS who is a principle in maintaining Trinity as well as
the Qt3 underneath, now called TQt, Timothy Pearson.

It is very lightweight and also has an ARM version.

--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:34:53 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

I'll have to look at that workspace. I figured it was there, just not
sure where.... I was probably there or close to it, when I was toggling
the wallpaper.

What is akonadi for?
I'm planning to download yet a newer version, 2013 or 2014...
I planned to get a few more versions last night, but I was not willing
to sit in the car all night waiting. for another one to download.

I also went to sorgeforce and got the linux system rescue cd. (I need
that so I can make a clone of a failing hard drive which has valuable
data). That took awhile too, and if I wanted to watch videos during
those downloads, it would slow down the downloads.

I booted the 2012 version a second time off the flash drive, and once
again got that error message. "KDE daemon" failed.... ???? Whatever that
means... Once I skip that, it works anyhow.

[compute...@example.invalid]

In that case, I guess I better rush out and buy a new computer with
Windows 10.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> I'll have to look at that workspace. I figured it was there, just not
> sure where.... I was probably there or close to it, when I was toggling
> the wallpaper.

Another strategy is that in my KDE's configure your desktop settings
function there is a search function. If I input workspace, two of the
icon/sections are selected, one of which has the number tweaker.

> What is akonadi for?

Here're some sentences from the wikipedia article:

Akonadi is a storage service for personal information management (PIM)
data and metadata ... Development of PIM applications is made much
easier because Akonadi takes care of data storage and retrieval, which
are traditionally the difficult parts of creating a PIM application. The
Mailody developer Tom Albers demonstrated how a mail reader could be
created in only 10 minutes using Akonadi.


So, it is useful, but it has all kinds of pieces which consume ram which
isn't needed (yet) as part of getting to the desktop.

> I'm planning to download yet a newer version, 2013 or 2014...
> I planned to get a few more versions last night, but I was not willing
> to sit in the car all night waiting. for another one to download.

Yeah; that would be an inconvenience all right. Plus, if you were
having the trouble I'm having with a couple of these, you would be
camping there for days.


--
Mike Easter

[RonB]

Okay. I've found their site. If I can get the ISO to download (sometimes
different cable providers work better with different sites) I'll put it up
(privately) on DropBox or somewhere. I assume it's the Trinity you're trying
to download.

[Mike Easter]

RonB wrote:
> Okay. I've found their site. If I can get the ISO to download (sometimes
> different cable providers work better with different sites) I'll put it up
> (privately) on DropBox or somewhere. I assume it's the Trinity you're trying
> to download.

The two trinities I've been working on are:

http://www.liberainformatica.it/Download/uplos/uplos-2017.01_ITA_Trinity.iso
http://archives.pclosusers.com/isos/archives-communityisos/Trinity/32-bit/trinity32-pclinuxos-2015.10.iso


The liberainformatica one is presumably in .it and .en according to a
readme; at first glance at its filename I thought it was going to be a
localized to .it only.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

RonB wrote:
> (sometimes different cable providers work better with different
> sites)

Is there an implication there that under some circumstances one should
use a proxy to see if that significantly improves the dl?

It is hard for me to believe that this/my problem is just
'happenstance', particularly after cu said he had good speed with
pclosusers, which is one of my problem servers.

It seems that something is throttling the dl; when the dl has stopped
due to network error and I resume, it starts out with a poor but higher
speed and in a short time dwindles to nothing.

When I've seen network throttling it behaves like that, except on a
faster scale. High speed a short time, then choked down to low speed.

This is very very low speed, then choked down to nothing, then network
error no download. Resume low speed, dwindle to very very low, network
error no download.


--
Mike Easter

[compute...@example.invalid]

Just to let you know, this site is worthless. NOTHING I click on even
exists as far as downloads. Sites like this should be removed from the
internet. Its one thing to have a few errors, but this site appears to
be 100% useless.

http://iso.linuxquestions.org/pclinuxos/

[RonB]

On 2017-10-26, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

I saw that one, as well. So far it (the 1-2017 one) is downloading okay
(about 1.2 GB downloaded so far – started it earlier). I just started the
second, smaller file (which quit on me once already, and I'm trying it
again). I've already successfully downloaded one from 12-15 called "minime"
– I guess a lightweight version.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:43:43 -0400, <compute...@example.invalid> wrote:

> I guess you missed the part where I said its NOT connected to the
> internet.

Connected to the internet means it can be used for web browsing, etc.
That can be a wired or wireless connection.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwho...@nomail.afraid.org to davidw...@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

[William Unruh]

On 2017-10-27, David W. Hodgins <dwho...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 08:43:43 -0400, <compute...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I guess you missed the part where I said its NOT connected to the
>> internet.
>
> Connected to the internet means it can be used for web browsing, etc.
> That can be a wired or wireless connection.

And if it is not connected to the internet you cannot download anything.

[Mike Easter]

David W. Hodgins wrote:
> <compute...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I guess you missed the part where I said its NOT connected to the
>> internet.
>
> Connected to the internet means it can be used for web browsing, etc.
> That can be a wired or wireless connection.
>

I think cu is saying that he connects to the internet by dialup or wifi
using his Windows, and that when he uses his PCLOS, that system is
always offline and it doesn't dialup or wifi.


--
Mike Easter

[RonB]

On 2017-10-26, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

I've got both of these files downloaded, but they don't seem to be bootable
from a USB thumb drive (at least not by using the USB Image Writer that
comes with Linux Mint). I'll try burning them to DVDs and see if they're
bootable. If so, I'll see where I can host them.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:30:49 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Correct!

That particular computer is not connected to the internet EVER,
regardless if I am using PCLOS or XP.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 13:33:05 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

Thats the kind of problems I have had trying to download anything of
size on dialup. Sometimes webpages wont completely load too, if they
have a lot of pictures and stuff.

But in your case, it sounds like a real crappy server you are connected
to.

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:51:20 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

I know I have real lousy internet service, but it seems that there are a
lot of sites that are using dialup too, not to mention the large number
of sites that are either fake or outright lies these days. It was never
that bad years ago. Add to that the excessive use of security lately,
whereas I cant even read a Wikipedia page without httpS slowing me down
(that "S" means SLOW).
On top of that we have the slowly dying newsgroups, and pretty soon we
will all be stuck with a worthless internet, or everyone will be forced
to use Facebook for everything. I personally will not recommend facebook
to my worst enemy, and will never use it myself.

I have some friends who are musicians and have a band. I miss a lot of
their shows because they dont have a webpage, just facebook. I keep
asking them when they are gonna get a REAL website!

I told them that Facebook is the REAL F-Word! The one that should not
be allowed in public.

[End of rant] ;)

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:18:03 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>So, it is useful, but it has all kinds of pieces which consume ram which
>isn't needed (yet) as part of getting to the desktop.
>
>> I'm planning to download yet a newer version, 2013 or 2014...
>> I planned to get a few more versions last night, but I was not willing
>> to sit in the car all night waiting. for another one to download.
>
>Yeah; that would be an inconvenience all right. Plus, if you were
>having the trouble I'm having with a couple of these, you would be
>camping there for days.
>
>
>--
>Mike Easter

That 2010 version is fairly small. around 700 mb. That took over 2 hours
to DL. However I was downloading some youtube videos too, and that
slowed it down more. But at least later I could view the videos
(offline) that I already downloaded while waiting for Pclos to finish
downloading.

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> That particular computer is not connected to the internet EVER,
> regardless if I am using PCLOS or XP.

What exactly IS 'that particular computer' hardware-wise?

When you are in PCLOS it has a command line tool which is excellent for
reporting the hardware called inxi. The command can be used in a great
many ways, but inxi and inxi -G and inxi -f used separately will first
show a very brief overview and then some specifics about the graphics
with -G and the CPU's flags with -f.

If you want to see a lot more, you can use something like inxi -F to see
most of what all it can report, or inxi -h to get a help output. Since
you aren't online with PCLOS, it won't be as simple as just pasting the
results into a message here.

Which computer is a laptop that you port to the wifi and which is a desktop?



--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> inxi and inxi -G and inxi -f

Here's one example on an 8G ram Win7 refurb desktop running Mint 18.2:

$ inxi
CPU~Dual core AMD Athlon II X2 B24 (-MCP-) speed/max~1800/3000 MHz
Kernel~4.8.0-53-generic x86_64 Up~4 days Mem~2938.6/7479.3MB
HDD~773.8GB(2.0% used) Procs~183 Client~Shell inxi~2.2.35


That cpu flags one -f is important for an older computer which might not
have such as SSE2.



--
Mike Easter

[William Unruh]

But then it cannot download anything! So
the only answer to the question in the subject line is "Nowhere".
It is thus unclear why you are asking about wireless.


>

[Mike Easter]

William Unruh wrote:
> But then it cannot download anything! So the only answer to the
> question in the subject line is "Nowhere". It is thus unclear why you
> are asking about wireless.

The gist of cu's situation is that he has some unknown hardware, more
than one device, whose connectivity consists of dialup at home and wifi
in town some miles away. He uses old Windows such as XP to connect by
dialup for some light email and newsgroups such as here and by town wifi
to 'fetch' things like linux .iso/s and some other. The hardware's
condition is that it is 32 bit, otherwise unspecified/uncharacterized so
far.

He also boots an old PCLOS 2009 and twiddles with it offline and he
wants to twiddle with a newer PCLOS, but that must be 32 bit which is
not currently supported by PCLOS per se.

The thread started with his request for a site to obtain some newer
versions of PCLOS to download with his Windows machine by wifi. Those
newer v. were established to be a 2014 available in several DEs at AIO,
and some 2015s as well as a 32bit fork called UPLOS which is current 2017.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> The gist of cu's situation is that he has some unknown hardware, more
> than one device,

Now I'm trying to guess at this hardware from earlier elements in the
thread; cu quotes follow:

> I cant afford to keep buying new computers, when I have at
> least 10 older ones that work. I use the internet, edit photos, listen
> to music and watch videos, plus some "office" work.

I think we are talking about 3 computers here, a W98 with an external
Robotics dialup modem, an XP desktop with 2 hdd/s one with PCLOS, and an
XP laptop.

> One last comment, I was running PcLinux from a flash drive, but I
> recently bought an extra harddrive so I could install it to the HDD.
> Presently I have it on my best computer, but I have to swap hard drives
> between PcLinux and XP. I'd like to get both on the same drive, but I
> did not want to chance wrecking my XP install. In all honesty, when I
> installed PCLinux, I was really not sure what some of the things were
> asking me to do. Especially the formatting of the HDD, it said I needed
> 3 partitions but only setup two. (but it works). That in itself had me
> lost. Most of the time I just hit ENTER and let it do whatever it
> wanted. The drive was blank anyhow.
>
Now I'm working on MyBest which has 2 hdd/s and can run XP or PCLOS
2009. There is also a W98 machine which has the external modem.

> These days I only use my dialup for email and newsgroups. Both work
> fine on Win98. to use the web, I have to drive to a WIFI spot and use my
> laptop (Win XP).

There's an XP laptop.

> The computer is from 2008. Same one I have PcLinux on,
> or XP.The computer was custom built in 2008 and sold for over $1200. It
> was considered top of the line back then. I bought it from the original
> owner, and learned the whole history of it. It once ran Vista. I bought
> it in 2013, I wiped the drive and put XP on it.

So, I'm believing this is 'mybest', a 2008 build, originally with Vista
now with XP and that is also the one with 2 hdd/s.

I'll bet a nickel, because I don't want to go too far on a limb, that
that computer is NOT a 32 bit computer, but a 64 bit.

AMD's 64 bits started in 2003 with the so-called K8; I had K7 AMDs as
well as K8s. But Intel's 64 bits were later. Intel started putting out
64bit in 2006. So, it is possible that a 2008 build might be built with
a 32 bit Intel, but it isn't at all likely to be a 32 bit AMD.

My low-end AMD Vista machine is a 64 bit from 2008; my 2006 Intel
Pentium M hand-me-down from 2006 is 32 bit.

Here's a method to get the PCLOS on the 'mybest' XP I'll assume desktop
because it has 2 hdd/s now to write its output to a file.

If you command:

inxi -Fc 0 > hardware.txt

... it will write the output of inxi's -F command, which is a pretty
thorough hardware report to a file named hardware.txt located in the
default home directory. The reason for including the -c and 0 in the
command is because inxi likes to make 'pretty' colored text output to
the terminal and that causes unprintable characters in a plaintext file.
The -c option allows for different colors and the 0 will cause there
to be no colors.

The problem with that idea is that Windows is going to not be able to
access that linux partition, so you would need to use the PCLOS to open
the file in its text editor and save it to the windows part. Or just
use the PCLOS filemanager to copy the file to the windows part.




--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> One last comment, I was running PcLinux from a flash drive, but I
> recently bought an extra harddrive so I could install it to the HDD.
> Presently I have it on my best computer, but I have to swap hard drives
> between PcLinux and XP. I'd like to get both on the same drive, but I
> did not want to chance wrecking my XP install. In all honesty, when I
> installed PCLinux, I was really not sure what some of the things were
> asking me to do. Especially the formatting of the HDD, it said I needed
> 3 partitions but only setup two. (but it works). That in itself had me
> lost. Most of the time I just hit ENTER and let it do whatever it
> wanted. The drive was blank anyhow.

The business about putting a linux onto the same hdd as the XP is a very
common practice, BUT... it has hazards.

Any time you are doing something like that, you have to be prepared for
the worst, that the XP and linux install are 'wrecked' and inaccessible.

When everything goes fine, the result is that the Win boot is replaced
by a linux boot system which is recognizing the Win part and the linux
part/s.

But, in order to prepare for the worst, the 'administrator', namely you,
has to be prepared to re-install the XP and the linux. Such preparation
should be part of everyone's backup strategy anyway.

If you don't have a comprehensive backup strategy, you should develop
one and you should not mess with your XP hdd until that is taken care of.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

> compute...@example.invalid wrote:
>> One last comment, I was running PcLinux from a flash drive, but I
>> recently bought an extra harddrive so I could install it to the HDD.
>> Presently I have it on my best computer, but I have to swap hard drives
>> between PcLinux and XP. I'd like to get both on the same drive, but I
>> did not want to chance wrecking my XP install.

About this swapping hard drives which sounds kinda physical...

I'm assuming that both hdd/s are mounted in the desktop case and that
they are IDE/PATA. The BIOS surely gives you some 'options' about how
to handle the 'swapping', so you should be able to do that with the
keyboard as the BIOS POSTS.

Some BIOS have 'boot' options, while others handle it at a more
'primitive' level.

--
Mike Easter

[Daniel60]

On 27/10/2017 12:48 AM, compute...@example.invalid wrote:

<Snip>

> It seems I have the phone company here at least twice a year. They do a
> half assed fix, and thats all. Several times there was a problem up by
> the road. Once a farmer tore up the wire with his plow. I wonder how
> many times it's been spliced. When I moved here, I was living in a small
> trailer house. Then I built an actual house. The phoneco wanted $350 to
> $400 to move the wire. I refused, and ran my own wire from the old
> trailer house to my new house. When I got rid of the old trailer, I put
> a post in the ground and put the junction box on that post. So I still
> have my own wire (about 80 ft) from that junction to the house. What
> ticks me off, is that their feed wire is underground, only 15 ft from my
> house, but the distance dont matter. I am not paying that much for them
> to move it. I'll just stick with using my own wires. If it's screwed up,
> I go to that post an hook up a test phone. They consider that to be the
> (house connection), I guess.
>
Your story reminds me of a situation at a small Army Camp that I worked
at many years ago.

As the Control Desk was manned 24/7, any "outside calls" would come to
the Control Desk 'phone where we could press a button to transfer the
call to the appropriate extension.

After periods of hot, dry, weather, this transfer function would cease
to function. The remedy was to grab a jug of water and walk about twenty
yards to a ground spike adjacent to the PABX room. Pouring the water on
the spike and surrounding ground usually fixed the problem!

Daniel

[Eef Hartman]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> One thing about linux that puzzles the heck out of me is why there are
> so many desktops and why they cant all be on the same install, and
> selectable, so a user can try all of them without having to keep making
> new CDs or reinstalling.

They could be all in the same install, but as quite a few are very big
you'll wind up with an install image of several 10's GB, way too large
for CD or even a double-layer DVD (8.5 GB).
In a lot of distro's (like ubuntu) you install with just a single DE
but when the system is running and connected to the Internet you can
download and install others.

[Eef Hartman]

compute...@example.invalid wrote:
> You keep mentioning DEs. What does that mean?"

Desktop Environment's, like KDE, Gnome, Mate, Unity etc.
Essentially the whole set of applications that make up your GUI
Desktop look and feel.

[Daniel60]

You must have struck it on a bad day!! I just read two of the "Question"
pages, and then had a look at two of the .iso download pages.

All had content, though I had to scroll down past the "Promotional" type
info.

HTH

Daniel

[Daniel60]

Computeruser, back in the day, you might have used the MS DOS operating
system. Then you might have used XT Gold or Windows 3 as your Desktop
Environment. Then came Win95 or Win98, which I also think were just
Desktop Environments sitting on top of the OS.

Then WinME, I think, was supposed to be the first fully integrated OS/DE.

Daniel

[Eef Hartman]

Daniel60 <Dani...@eternal-september.org> wrote:
> Then came Win95 or Win98, which I also think were just
> Desktop Environments sitting on top of the OS.
>
> Then WinME, I think, was supposed to be the first fully integrated OS/DE.

WinME was a further development of Win98, to make it look and work
more like Windows-2000.
The _other_ line of Windows releases (as pure 32-bit version O/S) was
Windows/NT (3.1, 3.5 and 4.0)
Windows-2000 (Win2k)
and then it got split up into
Windows/XP (desktop, 2002) and
Windows-2003 (server).

Those lines have stayed separate since then.

Note that although Win2k had both server and desktop capabilities,
there wasn't a "Home" version of it, it was more geared towards
business environments.

[Daniel60]

Ah! O.K., I thought that either WinME or Win-2000 was supposed to be the
Unification version of Server (i.e. WinNT line) and Desktop (Win98)
versions .... but it didn't work so good in one of those environments,
so MS had to release the other version (Win-2000 or WinME).

That's why there was a cross over in Desktop branding from Win95 then
Win98 to WinME (i.e. numbers to letters) whilst the Server branding went
from WinNT to Win-2000 (i.e. from letters to numbers).

But I'm just a User, not a Computer Tech .... so don't quote me!! ;-P

Daniel

[Aragorn]

On Wednesday 01 November 2017 07:41, Daniel60 conveyed the following to
alt.os.linux...

No, the letters in WinME stood for Millennium Edition. Windows 95 was
released in 1995, Windows 98 in 1998, and Windows ME in 2000. But they
had already used the "2000" moniker for what was initially ─ i.e. during
its beta phases ─ called NT 5.0, so they had to come up with a new name
for what would eventually become WinME.

Note that the NT versions weren't all server versions. You had the
Workstation version and several Server versions. The marketed version
branding is also not consistent with their true internal versions.


Marketed version: Internal version:

Windows NT 3.1 NT 3.1
Windows NT 3.5, NT 3.51 NT 3.5, NT 3.51
Windows NT 4.0 NT 4.0
Windows 2000 NT 5.0
Windows XP / Windows 2003 NT 5.1
Windows Vista / Windows 2008 NT 6.0
Windows 7 NT 6.1
Windows 8 NT 6.2
Windows 8.1 NT 6.3
Windows 10 NT 6.4, rebranded as NT 10.0


Windows NT also started off as version 3.1 because they wanted the
versioning to be on par with that of the DOS-based Windows versions, and
they were still marketing Windows 3.1 and later Windows 3.11 for
Workgroups at that point in time.

As Eef Hartman said, Windows 95, 98 and ME were all still running on top
of MS-DOS ─ Windows 95 was in fact internally versioned as MS-DOS 7.0
with Windows 4.0 ─ but unlike the 3.x generation of Windows, they had
their GUI layer inseparably locked to the underlying DOS system, so as
to preclude running them on a DOS system from Digital Research, Novell,
or any of their other competitors.

Earlier on ─ i.e. during the lifetime of the Windows 3.x generation ─
they had already included code in Windows which would poll for the
underlying DOS, and if it was found not to be a Microsoft DOS, then it
would start a timer with a random value, and upon the timeout, the
system would deliberately crash.

Microsoft's official explanation ─ neatly recorded at Wikipedia, the
source of all misinformation ─ was that it was merely a bug. Digital
Research worked around the sabotage by having their DR DOS 6.0 and later
report its internal DOS version as "Microsoft MS-DOS 3.30".

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

[Daniel60]

Thank you, Aragon.

Daniel

[compute...@example.invalid]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 13:57:36 -0700, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
wrote:

>I think we are talking about 3 computers here, a W98 with an external
>Robotics dialup modem, an XP desktop with 2 hdd/s one with PCLOS, and an
>XP laptop.
>

It's been several weeks since I became very frustrated with Linux
experimentation that I packed it all away. This is not the first time
this has happened.

Yes, the above quote explains what I have for computers. I usually
always run my Win98 computer at home, with the dialup modem, suitable
for basic email and usenet, and occasionally a little SLOW web browsing.
I use my XP laptop for WIFI use in town. Then I have the XP run storage
computer (not connected to the internet). Also the one that I use for
Linux. I have to unplug and swap hard drives to use Linux, and have
PCLOS 09 installed. So this last computer is the only one that matters
here.

Anyhow, I do appreciate the help I have gotten, esp from Mike Easter.
But I had to walk away for awhile (not to mention my home internet quit
working for a week because of a phone line problem, but that is fixed
now).

However I am going to continue on with my linux experimentation, but in
a limited capacity. I will post a NEW thread, since this one is old and
got large and is sort of outdated now.

So, on to a new thread.....

[mike]

Download MACPup 5.50 linux.
Runs from a CDRW/DVD-RW and can save sessions to the CDRW.
Runs from a flash drive.
It's an excellent distro from a developer who has empathy for new linux
users. It's almost ALL GUI and replaces cryptic error messages with
tutorial, "here's how you make this work" type error messages.
The distro 'just works'. That's a major benefit for new users.