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Budgie vs Gnome/Gtk
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Mike Easter
Sep 15, 2021, 1:04:23 PM9/15/21
to
Linux is many different things; embedded OS, supercomputers, servers,
desktops. While it has enjoyed great popuar success in all but
desktops, for me personally desktops are what it is all about.
A week ago elsewhere, I made a couple of posts about Solus and Budgie,
neither of which were 'popular' w/ me or otherwise, such as pagehits at
DistroWatch. I was sufficiently interested to boot a Ubuntu Budgie to
see the desktop, but not Solus, because I was less interested in the
development of an independent distro than the dev of a DE forked from Gnome.
I've also commented there in the past about Gnome dev being an important
desktop to the major patriarch distro/s including Debian, RedHat, and
'sub-patriarchs' like Ubuntu, while personally I prefer its alternates
and 'derivatives' such as Cinnamon, Mate, XFCE as well as DEs NOT built
on its same toolkit GTK such as KDE and LXQt which are built on Qt.
The toolkit rivalry between Qt & GTK has been going on a long time;
principally in the form of early Gnome vs early KDE. Many people feel
that the freedom to develop in different directions has been a
disadvantage to linux acceptance on the desktop because it has made it
more difficult for software dev/s and driver dev/s to provide their ware
in so many different directions.
The current Solus/Budgie dev/s have been 'having trouble' accepting the
direction of Gnome for a 'long time' in computer-speak. That direction
problem is the reason that Cinnamon and Mate 'split' from the direction
that Gnome 3 Shell was going. Another split was that of LXDE which was
based on Gtk2, not being happy w/ the problems of evolving itself to
Gtk3, so it left the toolkit in favor of Qt which resulted in LXQt.
According to the wp article on Solus, its dev/s were considering going
toward Qt instead of Gtk; in 2017, they 'decided' on Qt not Gtk4; in
2018 Joshua Strobl reversed that and decided on staying Gtk instead; now
in 2021 he is 're-reversing' because of his unhappiness w/ Gnome
Gtk4-Gtk5, but he can't find his way to Qt because of C++ instead of C,
so he's (says he is) going w/ EFL.
Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries; I
only knew of Enlightenment the 'desktop' (actually window manager and
compositor).
> The project's focus is to make the EFL a flexible yet powerful and
> easy to use set of tools to extend the capabilities of both the
> Enlightenment window manager and other software projects based on the
> EFL. The libraries are meant to be portable and optimized to be
> functional even on mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets.
<wp EFL>
If indeed the Solus/Budgie dev/s DO decide to EFL, it would be a bit
paradoxical, since one of the gripes they have against the direction
that Gnome and Gtk are going has to do w/ the influence on the
conventional desktop which Gnome-Gtk's 'catering' to phones is causing.
https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-ecosystem/
--
Mike Easter
desktops. While it has enjoyed great popuar success in all but
desktops, for me personally desktops are what it is all about.
A week ago elsewhere, I made a couple of posts about Solus and Budgie,
neither of which were 'popular' w/ me or otherwise, such as pagehits at
DistroWatch. I was sufficiently interested to boot a Ubuntu Budgie to
see the desktop, but not Solus, because I was less interested in the
development of an independent distro than the dev of a DE forked from Gnome.
I've also commented there in the past about Gnome dev being an important
desktop to the major patriarch distro/s including Debian, RedHat, and
'sub-patriarchs' like Ubuntu, while personally I prefer its alternates
and 'derivatives' such as Cinnamon, Mate, XFCE as well as DEs NOT built
on its same toolkit GTK such as KDE and LXQt which are built on Qt.
The toolkit rivalry between Qt & GTK has been going on a long time;
principally in the form of early Gnome vs early KDE. Many people feel
that the freedom to develop in different directions has been a
disadvantage to linux acceptance on the desktop because it has made it
more difficult for software dev/s and driver dev/s to provide their ware
in so many different directions.
The current Solus/Budgie dev/s have been 'having trouble' accepting the
direction of Gnome for a 'long time' in computer-speak. That direction
problem is the reason that Cinnamon and Mate 'split' from the direction
that Gnome 3 Shell was going. Another split was that of LXDE which was
based on Gtk2, not being happy w/ the problems of evolving itself to
Gtk3, so it left the toolkit in favor of Qt which resulted in LXQt.
According to the wp article on Solus, its dev/s were considering going
toward Qt instead of Gtk; in 2017, they 'decided' on Qt not Gtk4; in
2018 Joshua Strobl reversed that and decided on staying Gtk instead; now
in 2021 he is 're-reversing' because of his unhappiness w/ Gnome
Gtk4-Gtk5, but he can't find his way to Qt because of C++ instead of C,
so he's (says he is) going w/ EFL.
Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries; I
only knew of Enlightenment the 'desktop' (actually window manager and
compositor).
> The project's focus is to make the EFL a flexible yet powerful and
> easy to use set of tools to extend the capabilities of both the
> Enlightenment window manager and other software projects based on the
> EFL. The libraries are meant to be portable and optimized to be
> functional even on mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets.
<wp EFL>
If indeed the Solus/Budgie dev/s DO decide to EFL, it would be a bit
paradoxical, since one of the gripes they have against the direction
that Gnome and Gtk are going has to do w/ the influence on the
conventional desktop which Gnome-Gtk's 'catering' to phones is causing.
https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-ecosystem/
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
Sep 15, 2021, 1:49:19 PM9/15/21
to
Mike Easter wrote:
> I made a couple of posts about Solus and Budgie,
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=163172803000
> I made a couple of posts about Solus and Budgie,
From: Mike Easter
Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop
Subject: Re: Just for the record!
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 16:41:42 -0700
Message-ID: <ipqblo...@mid.individual.net>
> More on the 'Mac-like' Ub Budgie.
--
Mike Easter
jrg
Sep 15, 2021, 2:23:18 PM9/15/21
to
On 9/15/21 10:04 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
>
> Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
you serious?
>
> Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
Mike Easter
Sep 15, 2021, 3:05:07 PM9/15/21
to
jrg wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
>
> you serious?
In my desktop sampling, I had encountered Enlightenment in Elive and
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> Until now, I didn't know of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
>
> you serious?
the Moksha fork in Bodhit, but as a 'non-dev' I hadn't given any tho't to
the toolkit underneath. My 'world' seems to consist of mostly gtk & qt
desktops.
Jesse Smith said in a DW review of Bodhi:
> If you like Moksha, like its quirky approach, its super lightweight
> nature, and its unusual green-focused style then you will probably
> love Bodhi Linux. However, if you find using Moksha frustrating or
> just too alien compared to other desktops, then Bodhi will probably
> leave you with an unpleasant feeling.
Likewise E didn't appeal to me (or 'hasn't yet'). For me it is what it
feels like, not what it was dev/d w/.
--
Mike Easter
jrg
Sep 15, 2021, 3:53:03 PM9/15/21
to
On 9/15/21 12:05 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> Jesse Smith said in a DW review of Bodhi:
>> If you like Moksha, like its quirky approach, its super lightweight
>> nature, and its unusual green-focused style then you will probably
>> love Bodhi Linux.
the green is easily altered, really the least of the "problems". The
> Jesse Smith said in a DW review of Bodhi:
>> If you like Moksha, like its quirky approach, its super lightweight
>> nature, and its unusual green-focused style then you will probably
>> love Bodhi Linux.
real problem with Moksha is it forked away from E due to E devs not
getting along with Bodhi's main guy, Jeff H. I started with Bodhi and
tried Moksha but didn't like the direction it took and went with
pclinuxos and e22.
>> However, if you find using Moksha frustrating or
>> just too alien compared to other desktops, then Bodhi will probably
>> leave you with an unpleasant feeling.
pcmanfm, lxterminal, and any one the many text editors lying around.
I'm used to E being frustrating, its an acquired taste.
J.O. Aho
Sep 15, 2021, 5:54:50 PM9/15/21
to
On 15/09/2021 19.04, Mike Easter wrote:
> Another split was that of LXDE which was
> based on Gtk2, not being happy w/ the problems of evolving itself to
> Gtk3, so it left the toolkit in favor of Qt which resulted in LXQt.
LXDE and LXDE-Qt has the same main developer (PCMan) and the LXDE-Qt was
> Another split was that of LXDE which was
> based on Gtk2, not being happy w/ the problems of evolving itself to
> Gtk3, so it left the toolkit in favor of Qt which resulted in LXQt.
initially just an experiment and not intended to make a new DE. LXDE-Qt
and razor-qt merged into LXQt.
LXDE can be compiled against gtk2 and gtk3, but the later one seems to
have issues.
--
//Aho
Mike Easter
Sep 15, 2021, 6:37:05 PM9/15/21
to
J.O. Aho wrote:
> LXDE can be compiled against gtk2 and gtk3, but the later one seems to
> have issues.
>
There is still some LXDE around, such as current Debian's, which also
> LXDE can be compiled against gtk2 and gtk3, but the later one seems to
> have issues.
>
has LXQt. Lubuntu 18.04 is still supported. The LXDE website lists a
number of others I haven't checked out.
Also LXDE parts are often combined with openbox WM to make a very
lightweight desktop.
The business of 'following' the direction of something upstream which is
running over rocks or rapids a dev doesn't like seems problematic. I
also think of such as KDE at the 3.5 level when KDE4 was painfully
birthing which led to the dev of Trinity DE and the necessity for its
dev to continue to dev and support Qt3+ now known as TQt. That seems
like quite a handful.
--
Mike Easter
STALKING_TARGET_31
Sep 15, 2021, 9:26:41 PM9/15/21
to
I have known grade school kids who argue better than you do. Another lie
by Diesel. Snit didn't deny writing it, but he did not upload it to Usenet.
Diesel did that, in an account that uses his name.... and he did it because
he's obsessed with Diesel kicking his ass like a one legged man. Diesel
is being controlled by Apple.
--
Top 15 Ways Diesel Trolls
108 Warrior Dr. Kingsport, TN 37663
https://gibiru.com/results.html?q=%22functional%20illiterate%20fraud%22
Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll
Mike Easter
Sep 16, 2021, 1:50:03 PM9/16/21
to
Mike Easter wrote:
> In my desktop sampling, I had encountered Enlightenment in Elive and
> the Moksha fork in Bodhit, but as a 'non-dev' I hadn't given any tho't to
> the toolkit underneath. My 'world' seems to consist of mostly gtk & qt
> desktops.
I tho't I could check out an E DE by booting a live Sparky minimal GUI
> In my desktop sampling, I had encountered Enlightenment in Elive and
> the Moksha fork in Bodhit, but as a 'non-dev' I hadn't given any tho't to
> the toolkit underneath. My 'world' seems to consist of mostly gtk & qt
> desktops.
(openbox) and then installing the E DE and log out/in (sometimes I can
get away w/ that), but it didn't work. Now I'm curious about whether or
not I can do it as a live + persistence, but I haven't mastered the
Ventoy persistence strategy yet, so I'll have to look into that.
I haven't yet found a distro that does a live .iso other than the Moksha
fork, which I've seen.
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
Sep 16, 2021, 2:33:50 PM9/16/21
to
Mike Easter wrote:
> I tho't I could check out an E DE by booting a live Sparky minimal GUI
> (openbox) and then installing the E DE and log out/in (sometimes I can
> get away w/ that), but it didn't work.
I don't understand this information about polkit:
> I tho't I could check out an E DE by booting a live Sparky minimal GUI
> (openbox) and then installing the E DE and log out/in (sometimes I can
> get away w/ that), but it didn't work.
https://wiki.sparkylinux.org/doku.php/enlightenment_installation
> The 'enlightenment' package installs a 'polkit' back end such as:
>
> policykit-1-gnome
> polkit-kde-agent-1
> mate-polkit
> lxqt-policykit
> lxpolkit
>
> Make sure that your Enlightenment installation enabled one of the above tools at the start up.
And there is another section on that page:
> The second way to do so is edition (or creating if doesn't exist) a file:
>
> ~HOME/.e/e/applications/startup/.order
>
> Then add a '.desktop' file of the above tools, 'polkit' for example:
>
> polkit.desktop
--
Mike Easter
jrg
Sep 16, 2021, 5:08:29 PM9/16/21
to
On 9/16/21 11:33 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
> And there is another section on that page:
>
>> The second way to do so is edition (or creating if doesn't exist) a
>> file:
>>
>> ~HOME/.e/e/applications/startup/.order
>>
>> Then add a '.desktop' file of the above tools, 'polkit' for example:
>>
>> polkit.desktop
Enlightenment likes/needs its own PolicyKit thingy - Enlightenment has
> And there is another section on that page:
>
>> The second way to do so is edition (or creating if doesn't exist) a
>> file:
>>
>> ~HOME/.e/e/applications/startup/.order
>>
>> Then add a '.desktop' file of the above tools, 'polkit' for example:
>>
>> polkit.desktop
one for Openbox as well as others - in your startup file (in your
home/me/.config/autostart/ folder . Seems to be a gnome-freedesktop
thingy, which makes it GNU.
Try man polkit and take 2 aspirin...
Mike Easter
Sep 16, 2021, 6:06:18 PM9/16/21
to
jrg wrote:
> Try man polkit and take 2 aspirin...
Ha.
> Try man polkit and take 2 aspirin...
After man and the wp article, I found this 2015 write-up useful.
https://smcv.pseudorandom.co.uk/2015/why_polkit/
> Why polkit (or, how to mount a disk on modern Linux)
I'm still working on the archwiki page
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Polkit
Archwk also has an E page https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/enlightenment
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
Sep 16, 2021, 6:56:12 PM9/16/21
to
Mike Easter wrote:
>
> I'm still working on the archwiki page
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Polkit
>
> Archwk also has an E page https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/enlightenment
>
I'm getting buried in those wk pages
>
> I'm still working on the archwiki page
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Polkit
>
> Archwk also has an E page https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/enlightenment
>
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xinit#Switching_between_desktop_environments/window_managers
> xinit is typically used to start window managers or desktop environments.
> Switching between desktop environments/window managers
--
Mike Easter
Dustin who does stuff with miceless computers
Sep 17, 2021, 7:45:45 AM9/17/21
to
Larry Washington's psyche. Really, those of you who troll are not able
to check AZ cryptology anymore. I'm not going to pretend Rbowman didn't
square me away with my choice of distro and I am thankful for his advice.
Larry Washington has my example as an example and can begin to seem like
he is no longer complete ignorant from here on.
In fact Larry Washington's lies were quoted time and time again. So naturally
I regret helping Larry Washington. While I am sure his wife approved of
it, he has taught me to never try to appease a troll.
Various individuals who've known Larry Washington for quite a while, and
also have experience with him highly advise denouncing him to get him to
attack someplace else. As long as Rbowman and anyone else continues to
play his games, he will not seek a food supply someplace else.
I usually go argument by argument unless someone has a habit of really
bad bullshit. With Larry Washington, I already know what his method is,
all he craves is debate and, sadly, he'll do *anything* to get it. His
number one routine is to play 'easy mark' but reality shows it is all of
the regulars who are his suckers. What is your evidence?
--
Best CMS Solution of 2017!
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot
https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22functionally%20illiterate%20fraud%22
Dustin Cook the functionally illiterate fraud
Dusty Cook
Sep 17, 2021, 7:43:15 PM9/17/21
to
done so. What AZ Cypher looks like is the least of your problems and not
key to its performance, especially if it's free. A shadow of justification,
projected incorrectly, at the wrong time.
Michael Snit Glasser just has a bunch of completely insane allegations
and he knows it, so his game is to repeat his bullshit over and over and
engage 'posters' (who are either socks or shills) to 'agree to' that crap
to confuse his audience. Now that Owl realized how convincing Michael Snit
Glasser is at playing 'injured party' he sees this isn't as bizarre as
it sounded. Is this for real? Who *doesn't* know that this kind of bull
is Michael Snit Glasser's MO, not the approach of Owl? It's all just projection...
the flooding, the posting with Owl's name, the writing of gibberish, the
animosity... the panties in a twist and eagerness to show how distressed
he is over being kicked from the schoolyard for pooping in it again...
just what Michael Snit Glasser does ;)
-
Curious how these posts are made? https://youtu.be/hYQ4Tg0r0g0
Stephen - fretwizen
Sep 18, 2021, 1:47:30 PM9/18/21
to
On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:56:12 PM UTC-7, Mike Easter wrote:
can tell The Thing does not even know what is wrong with circuitry.
This forum is a leaking porta potty. You are safe as a circuitry user can
be.
-
"You'll notice how quickly he loses interest when everything is about him.
He clearly wants the attention"
Steven Petruzzellis, making the dumbest comment ever uttered.
Stephen - fretwizen
Sep 18, 2021, 3:07:33 PM9/18/21
to
Owl claimed the evidence were entirely consistent with many of the forgeries.
Well, why is he having such difficulty backing his assertion up when
asked to do so? In other words, if his statement was actually true, and
not just a trolling attempt to come to Troll Killer Snits rescue?
Geeeejus! How did Deplorable Owl get so narcissistic he thinks everything
is about himself??
-
I Left My Husband & Daughter At Home And THIS happened
https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22functionally%20illiterate%20fraud%22
Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot
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