Why TP-Link Archer C5 router can't restablish without mac cloning

[Ken Cito]

Anyone else have a TP-Link Archer C5 (AC1200) router that
permanently loses it's connection the moment you unplug
either it or the cable modem (for example, to move it)
or whenever the Internet goes down and comes back up.

Basically, if you interrupt power to the router, it can't
re-establish a connection with the Comcast cable modem.

When I call customer support for Comcast, they tell me
the Internet is working fine (and plugging the computer
into the modem confirms this). Comcast doesn't care what
mac address is downstream of it, so, there should be
absolutely no need for any mac cloning whatsoever.

When I call customer support for the router, they had me
connect the computer to the router and then press the
mac clone button.

On then, after cloning something, does the router work again.

I'm confused what is going on.

TP-Link support barely speaks English so I'm just asking if
you have the same problem and if you can explain what is
really going on.

TIA

[Melzzzzz]

Seems that Comcast is lying...

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:23:40 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:

> Seems that Comcast is lying...

I don't think it's comcast because it happens even if I just unplug
the router and modem and then connect them back up.

I can connect to the modem from the laptop and it works so,
comcast is working.

There is something odd in the TP Link router that *requires*
a manual mac cloning just to get it to work.

If someone else experienced this, please explain why this
is needed.

[Tony Hwang]

Like many other routers, MAC cloning is necessary. You don't have ways
to set up MAC cloning in your router's firmware? If you don't want to
then did you try ipconfig command with proper switches?

[Melzzzzz]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:44:52 -0000 (UTC)
Ken Cito <kc...@nospam.ahd.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:23:40 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:
>
> > Seems that Comcast is lying...
>
> I don't think it's comcast because it happens even if I just unplug
> the router and modem and then connect them back up.
>
> I can connect to the modem from the laptop and it works so,
> comcast is working.
>
> There is something odd in the TP Link router that *requires*
> a manual mac cloning just to get it to work.

Cloning is just giving router mac address from laptop.
You should figure out how to make router remember *that* mac address
so no need to do it all over again.

[Ken Cito]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 17:47:27 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Like many other routers, MAC cloning is necessary. You don't have ways
> to set up MAC cloning in your router's firmware? If you don't want to
> then did you try ipconfig command with proper switches?

Is that the reason?
Mac cloning is *required* for TP-Link routers?
If so, they should say it on the box, 'cuz I wouldn't have bought it.

My Netgear WNDR3400 router and my linksys WRT54G router *never* needed
mac cloning.

Why does only TP-Link *require* mac cloning to work?
I don't understand why it would need that just to work properly?

[Melzzzzz]

Do you know what is mac cloning?

[Tony Hwang]

Also check for new firmware update for the router.

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:48:27 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:

> Cloning is just giving router mac address from laptop.
> You should figure out how to make router remember *that* mac address
> so no need to do it all over again.

Why would the router even *need* mac cloning?

I thought Mac cloning was only for ISPs who REQUIRE a certain static
MAC address. Comcast support told me they don't care what MAC address
is downstream of them, so, it's something having only to do with the
TP-Link "AC" router, I think.

My Netgear wndr3400 "N" router never needed mac cloning to work.
My Linkssys WRT54G "G" router never needed mac cloning to work.

Why would only the TP-Link "AC" router *require* mac cloning in
order to work?

This is my first AC router.
Is mac cloning a "requirement" of the "AC" specification?

If so, they should have said so on the box and I wouldn't have bought
the darn thing. Having to clone a mac just to get a router to work
makes no sense to me.

Does it make sense to you?

PS: What am I cloning anyway? Why?

[Melzzzzz]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:50:32 -0000 (UTC)
Ken Cito <kc...@nospam.ahd.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 17:47:27 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
>
> > Like many other routers, MAC cloning is necessary. You don't have
> > ways to set up MAC cloning in your router's firmware? If you don't
> > want to then did you try ipconfig command with proper switches?
>
> Is that the reason?
> Mac cloning is *required* for TP-Link routers?
> If so, they should say it on the box, 'cuz I wouldn't have bought it.
>
> My Netgear WNDR3400 router and my linksys WRT54G router *never* needed
> mac cloning.
>
> Why does only TP-Link *require* mac cloning to work?

On same modem? Probably they cloned mac address of laptop
automatically..

> I don't understand why it would need that just to work properly?
>

Because cable modem requires mac address from laptop...

[Melzzzzz]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:55:42 -0000 (UTC)
Ken Cito <kc...@nospam.ahd.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:48:27 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:
>
> > Cloning is just giving router mac address from laptop.
> > You should figure out how to make router remember *that* mac address
> > so no need to do it all over again.
>
> Why would the router even *need* mac cloning?

Router does not needs mac address from laptop, rather cable modem...

>
> I thought Mac cloning was only for ISPs who REQUIRE a certain static
> MAC address. Comcast support told me they don't care what MAC address
> is downstream of them, so, it's something having only to do with the
> TP-Link "AC" router, I think.

I think they are lying. Either that or you have to reset cable modem in
order to accept different mac address...

[Retired]

These 2 webpages may help you.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/support/MAC_addr_clone.htm

http://www.tp-link.us/faq-68.html

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:58:50 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:

> Router does not needs mac address from laptop, rather cable modem...

> I think they are lying. Either that or you have to reset cable modem in
> order to accept different mac address...

I am still confused. Sorry. I just don't get *why* any cloning is needed.

Here is the screenshot of the router setup that is currently working:
https://i.imgur.com/IUZ0AIG.jpg

I don't want to touch anything.

I just want to understand why/which/what mac address cloning is
necessary to get it working once the power goes down.

The now-cloned MAC address of C4:E9:84:3D:9E:8C is a TP-Link OIC.
It's not the mac address of the Costco Arris/Motorola modem.

So, what I don't get is *who* needs the mac address cloned?
Why?

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:56:24 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:

> Because cable modem requires mac address from laptop...

Why does the cable modem need me to give it a mac address at all?

Here is the router web page that is currently working:
https://i.imgur.com/IUZ0AIG.jpg

[Ken Cito]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 17:53:05 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Also check for new firmware update for the router.

Router is brand new and up to date.
It's not actually "my" setup.
It's my kid's setup at college.

But I never in my life had to clone a mac address just to
get my Internet to work.

I still don't get why either the modem or the router cares
what mac address it is talking to.

There's nothing special about the mac address.
It's just a bunch of hexadecimal characters.

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:48:06 +0000, Ken Cito wrote:

> I am still confused. Sorry. I just don't get *why* any cloning is needed.

Is *this* the reason that this crazy cloning is needed?
http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20048/~/cable-isp-authentication-and-mac-cloning-explained
"Some cable companies, for some reason, also authenticate the network card
in your computer. First it will authenticate the Cable Modem, and then when
your computer attempts to get online, they'll check and make sure that you're
still using the same computer/network card/etc that you've always used.
If you've changed your network card or installed a router, they will deny
you access to the Internet. This is why most cable routers have a "MAC Address
Clone" (Use Computer MAC address) feature. If you tell your router to clone
your network card's MAC Address, it makes your cable provider think that you're
still using the same computer/network card to access their services, and
therefore they allow your router on the network."

This description above implies that Comcast is requiring both the MAC of the
DOCSIS3 Costco Arris/Motorola plus the MAC of the laptop computer, which, is
cloned onto the TP-Link router.

Why on earth would Comcast want *two* MAC addresses?
Since they're so easily spoofed, why does Comcast care?

Why does Comcast need anything more than the Costco modem's MAC address?

[Ken Cito]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:23:40 +0100, Melzzzzz wrote:

> Seems that Comcast is lying...

I'm slowly coming to the realization that Comcast is the guilty party here.

Looking at this web page, it seems that Comcast might be requiring *two*
different MAC addresses.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/macaddr.html#macclone

That page says:
"If you want to insert a NAT router between your PC and the cable modem,
you might want to avoid changing the client MAC address that the cable
modem connects to, for either of these reasons:
1. to avoid having to register a new client MAC address with your ISP
(if your ISP is one which requires registration of the MAC address
of the connected device);
2. to avoid problems with the ISP's DHCP system not immediately issuing
a new IP lease when the client MAC address changes.

Many NAT routers intended for the domestic market have the ability to clone
the PC's MAC address into the MAC address of the WAN port.

For best effect, you should do the cloning before you first connect the
router to the cable modem. To discover how to clone, please consult the
documentation for your router.

If the router had already been connected to a cable modem, then after
cloning a new MAC address into the WAN port, you must perform the
procedures of Swapping computers on the cable modem.

With the cloned MAC address in the router's WAN port, then as far as
the cable modem is concerned, it is talking to the original PC.

So, it seems that Comcast is the guilty culprit, because Comcast is
*requiring* (it seems) two exact MAC addresses:
a. One (real) MAC for the DOCSIS3 modem, and,
b. Another (bogus) MAC for the "computer" that connects to the modem.
(Where this "computer" is the router itself.)

Is that correct yet?

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2016-01-26 03:07, Ken Cito wrote:
> So, it seems that Comcast is the guilty culprit, because Comcast is
> *requiring* (it seems) two exact MAC addresses:
> a. One (real) MAC for the DOCSIS3 modem, and,
> b. Another (bogus) MAC for the "computer" that connects to the modem.
> (Where this "computer" is the router itself.)
>
> Is that correct yet?

Maybe.

I don't have comcast, I live in another country. But I'll try to make
educated guesses. :-)

There are several reasons to have to clone MAC addresses. One quite old
reason was that the ISP wanted us to connect a single computer. They
would provide a modem of some kind with a single ethernet socket for a
single computer. They would identify this computer by its MAC address,
and refuse to provide service if it changed. Stupid, IMHO.

But people inserted a router in there, to allow more computers, using
NAT. This router had to make the ISP think that it still was connected
to the same single computer, thus we would clone the MAC address of the
computer into the router outside facing port. And of course, the router
has to remember this (save settings), or on power reset it would not work.

I think that is your situation.

It is possible that it would accept the new (unchanged) MAC address of
the router after sometime, without doing anything. As I said, I don't
know comcast. Try rebooting both modem and router, later connect the
computer.


Another situation is that the ISP may identify the MAC address on the
external port of the modem or router connected to the cable, typically
provided by them. If you buy a different router, it will not work unless
you clone that external MAC address. This happens with one provider in
my country, I understand.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Tony Hwang]

Delete cloning from the question.
And Let's see the answer.
Put the MAC address in the router set up.
Is it left default or blank?

[Tony Hwang]

He uses fake email address.

[Ken Cito]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:12:12 -0500, Retired wrote:

> These 2 webpages may help you.
> http://www.practicallynetworked.com/support/MAC_addr_clone.htm
> http://www.tp-link.us/faq-68.html

Basically, it seems that reference implies Comcast, even though
they might not even know it themselves, is requiring *two* MAC
addresses for authentication:
1. The MAC address of the docsis3 Costco cable modem, and,
2. Some other MAC address (which seems to be the router, by default).

Had I known that when we set it up, I would have made the
router DE:AD:BE:EF:CA:FE, which at least I can remember.

There was one disturbing sentence in your reference:
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/support/MAC_addr_clone.htm

"some ISPs have started to recognize the MAC addresses of
popular routers and disconnect service if a router is
detected."

A router is a requirement, not an option; so if they are doing
that, they stink as ISPs.

[Ken Cito]

Thank you for that explanation.
It had never occurred to me that the ISP (in this case, Comcast), was
requiring, for authentication, *two* MAC addresses!

Apparently the second MAC address is that of the router because I
looked up the OIC which shows it to be a TP-Link MAC address:
https://i.imgur.com/IUZ0AIG.jpg

So, the cable company is *indiscriminate* in that they'll take *any*
Mac address, probably set up at the time we started the service.

Sheesh. Why didn't they just tell me this?

[Gab]

replying to Ken Cito, Gab wrote:
I have same problem in Canada, work at an ISP which is also my cable provider,
ONLY ARCHER C5 have that problem, will try to make a firmware update on it

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/why-tp-link-archer-c5-router-can-t-restablish-without-mac-cl-868311-.htm

[Steve Carroll]

Honestly, what lie?

It's like a prank call. Allah has already decided what he is going to say before he calls. What you say is irrelevant. What The Flying Spaghetti Monster says doesn't matter.

Just some names the stalker has used
"Evil" John *
"Evil" Snit *
Big Crotch on a Small Fish
Cornelius Munshower
CSMA Moderator
Edward Stanfield
Fretwiz *
Hitman Hero
Measles
Petruzzellis Kids
Sigmond
Slaveen
Smit
Steve C *
Steve Camoll *
Steve Carroll <noone@xxxxxxxxxxx> *
Steve Carroll <stevecarroll@xxxxxxxxxxx> *
Steve Carroll <trollkiller@xxxxxx> *
Steve Carroll's Dog *
Steve Carrolll *
Steve Carrroll *
Yevette Owens
Yobo_Obyo
I bet Allah thinks his life was worse than The Flying Spaghetti Monster's.

Oh my! Right, Allah is pushing to sell a DOM variable, which anyone can get in 5 seconds, that I taught myself. If he wasn't so dumb he would realize how slow he proves himself to be.

Of course I noted examples of Allah trolling multiple groups -- failing to rise up and instead putting others down, etc. His response: to double down on your lies. Allah is far too idiotic to write a quality script. The only scripting he's capable of doing is click, click, drool, drool.

--
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Jonas Eklundh

[Steve Carroll]

These posts are clearly not automated, they are made by a pill popping stalker with an axe to grind who has way too much time on his hands (and possibly has other idiots helping him). You are mere seconds away from being in my kill file. It was Marek 'The Flooder' Novotny who forged me and bragged about it. When I got here, I wanted to be trusting and open minded. I gave Marek 'The Flooder' Novotny more than a reasonable person could be expected to. This is something you know nothing about. What do you get out of lying, Marek 'The Flooder' Novotny? Gee, imagine Marek 'The Flooder' Novotny trying to pin his buffoonery on me or others, no one has ever seen that before.

--
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Jonas Eklundh

[Steve Carroll]

It was Jeff 'The Fool' Relf.Me who got caught using lots of socks time and time again, and these are 'people' who come clearly out of the blue straight into threads where he was getting his ass handed to him... nonstop for over a decade.

Just idiotic trolling. And I am giving attention to that trolling. THAT is what the "Jeff 'The Fool' Relf.Me circus" is. Jeff 'The Fool' Relf.Me is far too unintelligent to write a useful script. The only scripting he's ever shown he can do is automating his trolling in this group.

No no. Jeff 'The Fool' Relf.Me never agreed to stop flooding. He lied about his trolling and that was that.

-
This broke the Internet!!
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[Steve Carroll]

I thought showing him a taste of his own medicine might help the situation. It did not. You've proven very little.

At one point, Carlos E.R. said a COLA denizen was "obsessing" over him, which was shown to be merely him posting to himself. Already moved on from that. Take it as you want! Protected code is best done with code morphing.

--
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[Steve Carroll]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 14:19:49 UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:

But when the charts were produced, it turns out by _that_ criteria, William Poaster was far more "dishonest" than even I imagined. Frankly I do not really have any hope.

Generally, I wouldn't call a post like William Poaster's comments a fantasy right up until you negate it and he responds with the nothing but repetition with one of his socks. So, yeah, I buy into my own inner world, fully knowing it's fake, because it makes me reconsider my script, improving it.



-
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[Jonas Eklundh]

No no. He never agreed to stop accusing good people of being like him. He lied about his trolling which surprised nobody. Marketing is a wonderful thing and consumer ignorance is even better. It's a long saga, and Mark Bilk is simultaneously an expert bullshiter of trolling remarks, while posting with socks with a myriad of tells.

Sadly this is what results when dangerously low self confidence takes over Mark Bilk's every moment.

Mark Bilk and Jesus Christ both lie ceaselessly and shamelessly and continue to do so. So no point in showing any further civility or judiciousness. He is as incompetent as Mark Bilk. Who are you even speaking to?

--
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[Jonas Eklundh]

Facts about Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll

Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll is a nearly 60 year old guy who is single, broke and has no skills. He blames Mark Bilk for his loss of his wife and girlfriend. Steven is jealous of what Mark Bilk has and in a narcissistic rage repeatedly works to take it away from him. For over 10 years he has failed at even this. Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll is an utter failure in life.

Of his online life Steven says

I've been booted off by past providers before because people
complain about me and all my bullshit. I don't want to lose my ISP
*again* but I still need my army of sock puppets so I continually
search usenet for whatever servers I haven't yet been booted
from.

Some examples where Steven has been booted

X10 Hosting booted Steven for inappropriate activity
http://tinyurl.com/z92qmz4

Comcast booted Steven for inappropriate activity
http://tinyurl.com/h75nh9l

FreeHostingEU booted Steven for copyright infringement http://devsite.eu.pn

AwardSpace (atwebpages.com) booted Steven for breaking terms of service
http://demsites.atwebpages.com/pokeman

Imgur took down an image for breaking terms of service http://imgur.com/yv2XppE

Had a GigaNews account which was removed for harassing Mark Bilk

Stopped posting from his fretwizzen Google account since shortly after I complained. Seems he lost that too.

His wife booted Steven to the curb for cheating on her



Only site Steven Petruzzellis has pointed to that has ever been available
http://web.archive.org/web/20161019062351/http://www.oldneighborhoodrestaurant.net/
https://goo.gl/DMno6J

Made by the Go Daddy Website builder and is utter crap. Later he denied he said he was merely taking credit for someone else's work but Steven is the contact person http://tinyurl.com/hcw6dul
http://web.archive.org/web/20161202192456/http://www.reservationdiary.eu/eng/reservation/d76d1156-e9f7-43c1-b77b-b07189857820

He also bragged he was working on an update and showed it here https://vid.me/u6RK

The business still failed.

He likely went to the Go Daddy Website Builder after he failed to get WordPress installed.

https://mu.wordpress.org/forums/topic/13879


This is why Steve "Steven Petruzzellis" Carroll attacks Mark Bilk.


Steven Petruzzellis was is divorced because his wife caught him screwing another woman.

Mark Bilk is married and by all appearances happily so.
He never complains about his wife in COLA.


Steven Petruzzellis is living on charity of a friend in a single room.

Mark Bilk does not live in a mansion or even a high end home but has a house and a yard.


Steven Petruzzellis has two kids but no respect. He repeatedly called Ryan his "little screwup" and refers to his son Steve as a "dick" and worse. He says at least one of them likely hacked his computer and is a "mentally deficient child." He mocks his possible future daughter-in-law as someone who takes too many selfies and is focused only on herself

Mark Bilk has two kids (or more) and never speaks poorly of them in public.
No reason to think they are not a happy family.


Steven Petruzzellis claims to be a stay at home dad who pays thousands of dollars for day care. Steven has no job and no purpose in life. Steven has given up and now seeks a mother-figure to date.

Mark Bilk has his own business doing technical work and also teaches.
Mark Bilk offers a true contribution to society.
Teachers are truly under appreciated.

--
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Jonas Eklundh

[Steve Carroll]

Who are you even talking to? I don't know if there is a encumbered open sores solution or not. What is your evidence? And why the requirement to open a ticket via an automated phone system in a mobile system? As always, he didn't list this as part of his, predictably, continually changing 'requirements'.

--
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[Steve Carroll]

The guy is as loved as a rattle snake in a lucky dip -- and with good cause.

Nobody is being controlled by RMS. Can you knock off begging for my attention?

--
Top Ten Ways Steve 'The Moron' Petruzzellis Trolls!!
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https://youtu.be/HHT9SJgYsH4
Jonas Eklundh Communication

[Steven Petruzzellis]

Turns out Flatfish's persistent referencing of The Flying Spaghetti Monster met that definition, so he pretended he never said that. It was Flatfish who was openly asking how better to better his flooding. Just brainless trolling. And I am giving attention to that trolling. THAT is what the "Flatfish circus" is. Really, those of you who troll are not able to manage Fedora anymore.

Can emoji be concatenated into a string with a logical connection to the "real" world; that is the question posed recently by those astonished at the non-stop flood of gibberish from trolls and basement-dwelling ultra-cranks.

Yup. It seems this is what we have to face. Jerks who obviously have no reason for being here other than to flood.

It should not matter because the FROM line on a post means nothing, we know it is from the flooder anyway.

--
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Jonas Eklundh

[Steven Petruzzellis]

You _do_ realize that the massive floods ending up in multiple groups started out as a joke about hacking Google.

Perhaps you use it incorrectly. Do you not fathom the use of VPN? Honestly, what lie? Frankly I do not really mind. GNU is based on Linux. Even if The Underground Marshmallow Person is too stupid to figure that out. Not only did John Gohde's request fail to touch on the "DE", it has not a thing to do with Slrn. The Underground Marshmallow Person should stop sniffing glue.

How is Blender on Linux doing anything above the lowest common denominator?

Real discussion will be overwhelmed once the those of us here before the eternal September are outnumbered. That and there will forever be a temper tantrum or more in an open news group. The flooding BS aside, we've all seen who often gets angry when he does not get a response.

--
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