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Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD as a dual boot?

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Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 16, 2018, 10:37:46 PM6/16/18
to
Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD
as a dual boot?

I tried a half-dozen times, but Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop just won't *ask*
to install side-by-side to a new Windows 10 Pro 1803 in a single-HDD
dual-boot arrangement.

Any ideas why the latest Ubuntu desktop won't install side-by-side
next to the latest Windows 10 Pro?

Did I skip a step somehow in the tutorials?
Did the tutorials skip a step?
Or did I find a bug in Ubuntu?

======== everything below is gory detail on that question ==========

The "Try Ubuntu" boots fine but the "Install Ubuntu" will not ask to be
placed side-by-side with Windows 10 Pro no matter how many
times I've tried.

Either I did something wrong - or it's a bug in Ubuntu as I followed the
tutorials below (skipping the "optional" fast-boot disabling step).
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/dual-boot-ubuntu-18-04-lts-with-windows-10/>
<https://linoxide.com/distros/install-ubuntu-18-04-dual-boot-windows-10/.
<https://askubuntu.com/questions/1031993/how-to-install-ubuntu-18-04-alongside-windows-10>
<https://www.techsupportpk.com/2018/05/how-to-install-ubuntu-1804-desktop-dual-boot-with-windows-10.html>
<https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/ubuntu-how-tos/how-to-install-ubuntu-18-04-alongside-with-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot.html>

As usual, I write up the steps ahead of time and print them, so that
I can follow them perfectly, but the actual steps are almost never those
that are documented, so it's either a corner case where I need a different
step, or my first Ubuntu 18.04LTS bug (I seem to have a sad gift for
finding bugs in operating systems).

All I want to do is install Ubuntu side by side with Windows 10 Pro.
I'd be perfectly happy to be told *where* my user error is, so I documented
*every* step so that we can figure out if this is user error or a bug in
Ubuntu setup or a bug in the tutorials.

Here are the steps I performed to install Ubuntu next to Windows 10:
* I put a new HDD in an older HP Pavillion desktop tower
* I created a Windows 10 ISO using the standard media-creation tool method
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>
* I installed the latest Win10 Pro which automatically activated just fine
* I created the Ubuntu ISO from https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso
Size: 1921843200 bytes (1832 MB)
SHA256: A55353D837CBF7BC006CF49EEFF05AE5044E757498E30643A9199B9A25BC9A34
---------------------------
* Note that the Ethernet cable is connected to a rooftop WiFi antenna
* This setup requires a static IP address of 192.168.1.something
* I disconnected all other disks so that the install disk is unambiguous
* Only 1 disk remains which is the terabyte Windows 10 Pro boot disk
* Run the HP F9 Diagnostic test on the CPU, memory, & HDD (all pass)
* Boot to the recently installed Windows 10 Pro 1803 (latest version)
* On Windows, run msinfo32 to figure out if you're using BIOS or EFI
RMBStart > Run > msinfo32
BIOS Mode = Legacy <== this is BIOS <== this is what mine reports
BIOS Mode = UEFI <== this is EFI <== mine does not report this
* Run Disk Management to create space RMBStart > Run > diskmgmt.msc
* Right click on the volume > Shrink Volume
* Enter the amount of space to shrink in MB = 40000 (aka 40GB)
* Mine showed 38.87GB unallocated show up next to C: 892.45GB
* Put the Ubuntu 18.04LTS desktop boot disc in the DVD drive
* Shut down the PC & then turn the power back on
* Press ESC at POST to boot to the boot selection
* Choose to boot off the Ubuntu boot disc in the DVD drive
* Ubuntu Welcome screen asks "Try Ubuntu" or "Install Ubuntu"
* Press "Install Ubuntu" (although it will never work!)
* Accept the English(US) keyboard layout
* Leave the "Updates and other software" at the default
* Note: It doesn't matter *what* options you choose - it fails every time
* At this point, you're *supposed* to get a screen giving you a choice
* You're supposed to be able to install "side by side" with Windows 10
* But this screen only proves an "Installation type" of /dev/sda

That's the bug. Or error.
You can't install Ubuntu side by side with Windows 10 Pro.

* Your only choice is to quit the installation
* At this point, you notice the "wired" Ethernet never connected
* NOTE: There is no way to make that wired connection manually yet anyway
* At this point, the system continues to Ubuntu 18.04 using the DVD
* Once at the Ubuntu desktop, there is an "Install Ubuntu 18.04 LTS" icon
* But first, let's finally manually connect to the "wired" Intenet
* Set IVP4 to 192.168.1.something, 255.255.255.0, 192.168.1.1, 8.8.8.8
* Now, for the first time possible, you're on the Internet (ping google)
* Now you can click "Install Ubuntu 18.04 LTS" but it will never work
* The exact same problem happens where you don't get the side-by-side
choice

This is either a bug in the tutorials (they skipped some steps?),
or this is a bug in Ubuntu (it won't set up a side-by-side installation),
or I am doing a step wrong (or skipping a step that isn't documented).

Any ideas why the latest Ubuntu desktop won't install side-by-side
next to the latest Windows 10 Pro?

===== everything below is gory documentation of the steps =====

Following are forty-nine sequential photos documenting every step in gory
photographic detail because this is either:
a. User error in following the tutorials (maybe I missed a step?)
b. A bug in the tutorials (maybe they skipped a step?)
c. A bug in Ubuntu (maybe they never tested the installation this way?)

<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot01.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot02.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot03.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot04.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot05.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot06.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot07.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot08.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot09.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot10.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot12.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot13.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot14.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot15.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot16.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot17.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot18.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot19.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot20.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot21.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot22.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot23.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot24.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot25.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot26.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot27.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot28.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot29.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot30.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot31.jpg>
Number 32 is missing simply because I misnumbered the photos
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot33.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot34.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot35.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot36.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot37.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot38.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot39.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot40.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot41.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot42.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot43.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot44.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot45.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot46.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot47.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot48.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot49.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot50.jpg>

In summary, can you offer a suggestion as to why Ubuntu 18.04 does not ask
to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD as a dual boot setup?

Jonathan N. Little

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Jun 16, 2018, 11:33:03 PM6/16/18
to
Arlen Holder wrote:
> Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD
> as a dual boot?

If your drive is formatted MBR and the Windows 10 install has 4 primary
partitions (Windows will take up 3 and OEM puts some utility partition)
then all 4 primary partitions are taken and all Ubuntu can do is overwrite.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 12:22:43 AM6/17/18
to
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 23:33:00 -0400, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

> If your drive is formatted MBR and the Windows 10 install has 4 primary
> partitions (Windows will take up 3 and OEM puts some utility partition)
> then all 4 primary partitions are taken and all Ubuntu can do is overwrite.

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for that helpful advice, as I admit I'm not all that familiar with
partitioning.

AFAIK, I didn't do *anything* to partition anything other than exactly what
the tutorials said to do (which was to 'Shrink volume' to create a 40000MB
section of that brand new 1 terabyte hard disk drive).
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/dual-boot-ubuntu-18-04-lts-with-windows-10/>
<https://www.techsupportpk.com/2018/05/how-to-install-ubuntu-1804-desktop-dual-boot-with-windows-10.html>
<https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/ubuntu-how-tos/how-to-install-ubuntu-18-04-alongside-with-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot.html>

But maybe there are hidden partitions that Windows or Ubuntu created?
Dunno.

This is the related screenshot from the previous post:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot06.jpg>

Here is a new screeenshot taken just now of the same setup:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot51.jpg>

I see no indication of multiple partitions - but - *something* is wrong,
so, every viable avenue needs to be explored - hence I appreciate the help.

To be double clear, the terabyte hard drive is brand spanking new.
* I never formatted it. I never partitioned it.
* I simply installed the Windows 10 ISO on it.
* And then I installed willy-nilly a bunch of software on Windows.
* I haven't even organized Windows yet - as I'm still in the setup phase.
* I just wanted to install dual-boot Ubuntu side by side with Windows.

I've done dual-boot Linux with Windows before where it was never this hard.

I don't understand yet why Ubuntu won't give me the choice of side-by-side
installation with Windows, whether I do it from the start:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot23.jpg>
Or if I try it after the Ubuntu ISO dvd has booted to itself:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot42.jpg>

In summary, to answer your question, I only see only one drive with two
partitions, but maybe I'm reading the results wrong as I'm not all that
familiar with partitioning.

I appreciate the help though, as only one of three possibilities exist:
1. I screwed up somewhere, or,
2. The tutorials suck, or,
3. Ubuntu has a bug.

Grant Taylor

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 1:26:46 AM6/17/18
to
On 06/16/2018 10:22 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Thanks for that helpful advice, as I admit I'm not all that familiar
> with partitioning.

;-)

> AFAIK, I didn't do *anything* to partition anything other than exactly
> what the tutorials said to do (which was to 'Shrink volume' to create
> a 40000MB section of that brand new 1 terabyte hard disk drive).

That shrinks the existing partition and creates a new partition in the
recently freed space.

> But maybe there are hidden partitions that Windows or Ubuntu created?
> Dunno.

Not in the screenshot that you showed.

It is (or used to be) possible to have ""hidden partitions. They used a
different partition type which caused OSs to not not assign drive
letters to them or show them (by default) in file managers.

I don't know how prevalent this ever was or if it even still works.
Either way, I think that you are not dealing with ""hidden partitions.

> I see no indication of multiple partitions

Where do you see no indication of multiple partitions? Both of the
screenshots that you linked to are showing two partitions on Disk 0.

> but - *something* is wrong, so, every viable avenue needs to be explored -
> hence I appreciate the help.

Why do you say that something is wrong?

> To be double clear, the terabyte hard drive is brand spanking new.
> * I never formatted it. I never partitioned it.

Yes you did. Indirectly.

> * I simply installed the Windows 10 ISO on it.

Windows installation took care of partitioning and formatting the drive
on your behalf.

> * And then I installed willy-nilly a bunch of software on Windows.
> * I haven't even organized Windows yet - as I'm still in the setup phase.
> * I just wanted to install dual-boot Ubuntu side by side with Windows.

Okay.

Are you booting via BIOS or EFI?

> I've done dual-boot Linux with Windows before where it was never this hard.

What specifically are you referring to as hard? Creating free space and
creating a new partition?

I remember time (not that long ago) when you couldn't do this without
3rd part utilities.

Save for backing everything up, blowing everything away, and starting
from scratch. But who wants to go there? ;-)

> I don't understand yet why Ubuntu won't give me the choice of side-by-side
> installation with Windows, whether I do it from the start:

I don't know. I question if the side-by-side feature is included in the
18.04 installer or not.

> In summary, to answer your question, I only see only one drive with two
> partitions, but maybe I'm reading the results wrong as I'm not all that
> familiar with partitioning.

That's what I'm seeing too.

> I appreciate the help though, as only one of three possibilities exist:
> 1. I screwed up somewhere, or,

I'm not reading any indication of that yet.

> 2. The tutorials suck, or,

Meh....

> 3. Ubuntu has a bug.

A non-existent feature is not necessarily a bug.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

David W. Hodgins

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 1:37:44 AM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:22:42 -0400, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Thanks for that helpful advice, as I admit I'm not all that familiar with
> partitioning.

Given that, be sure to check back here before making any changes. I'd
also strongly advise making a full backup, and make sure you know how
to recover from that backup, before continuing. A mistake in the
partitioning stage can wipe out the windows install, and without a
full backup would require re-installing windows.

> But maybe there are hidden partitions that Windows or Ubuntu created?
> Dunno.

Windows does hide partitions, and some manufacturers create their own
hidden partitions. These are used to effectively re-install windows every
time one of it's updates makes the system un-bootable.

I also don't use Ubuntu. If you can get into a command prompt with it,
the command "blkid /dev/sd*" will show what type of partition table is in
use and which partitions are in use. That's the information that will be
needed for others more familiar with windows to provide advice on how
to proceed.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwho...@nomail.afraid.org to davidw...@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

Paul

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Jun 17, 2018, 2:45:18 AM6/17/18
to
Arlen Holder wrote:
> Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD
> as a dual boot?
>
> I tried a half-dozen times, but Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop just won't *ask*
> to install side-by-side to a new Windows 10 Pro 1803 in a single-HDD
> dual-boot arrangement.

What I see here is a "pregnant pause" just before
your "weird unexpected" dialog shows up.

Since I used "TORAM=yes" on the boot line, there is
no DVD activity while the installer is running.
The entire DVD is held in RAM.

By doing that, if I see the hard drive light flash
on the front of the machine, I know for sure the
hard drive is being used.

So just before your "Install Type" thing, I see some
definite scanning activity, and not a short scan either.
I don't know what it's scanning, but it might be possible
to figure it out.

In any case, that doesn't solve your problem.

Your partition structure looks pretty simple. It's
marginally simpler than my test setup. I have two
0x27 NTFS System Reserved partitions as well as the
main 0x07 C: partition. Using MSDOS legacy partitioning.

*******

What the installer will do, if you insist on using the
automation, is it will create an Extended plus at
least one Logical. Even if there's room to create
a Primary.

What you would want (if the installer would give the
correct dialog box), is the "Something Else" option,
which allows the user to specify one or more
partitions. The role of each partition can be specified,
such as one small partition being for "swap", and
a larger partition being for "slash" AKA "/" the
root partition. The installer allows multiple partitions
to be defined under "/" in the traditional way, so you
could, say, put some home directories on another disk
or something.

I never do anything crazy like that.

But I do use the Something Else option to control
exactly where my "swap" will go, and what size "/"
I want. Then I start the install.

The following is the "side by side" option, and
what happens when using the automation.

https://s22.postimg.cc/8z04eq3q9/1804_1.gif

https://s22.postimg.cc/9psukb3gx/1804_2.gif

https://s22.postimg.cc/pba64appt/1804_3.gif

https://s22.postimg.cc/rslxbljwx/1804_4.gif

*******

So back to your problem. How many hard drives
are connected currently. I had a single 500GB
hard drive connected for my test, and I got the
"correct" option with the "something else" offered
at the bottom.

Paul

Arlen Holder

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Jun 17, 2018, 3:12:19 AM6/17/18
to
On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 23:27:44 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

>> I see no indication of multiple partitions
>
> Where do you see no indication of multiple partitions? Both of the
> screenshots that you linked to are showing two partitions on Disk 0.

I appreciate the request for clarification where it was my mistake for not
being clear.

Jonathan was suggesting a possible reason that Ubuntu won't install
side-by-side with Windows being "too many" partitions (i.e., more than 4).

To be clear, what I see (and I think you confirmed):
1. There was originally only one partition (after installing Windows).
2. Now there are two (after "Shrinking volume" as per the tutorials).

>> but - *something* is wrong, so, every viable avenue needs to be explored -
>> hence I appreciate the help.
>
> Why do you say that something is wrong?

Well, what I *want* to get Ubuntu to pop up is this choice to:
* Install Ubuntu alongside Windows 10
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Install-ubuntu-along-windows10.jpg>

Some tutorials show it as this question:
* Install Ubuntu alongside Windows Boot Manager
<https://cdn.itzgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Install-Ubuntu-18.04-Alongside-With-Windows-10-Automatic-Partitioning.png>

I *never* see that choice no matter how many times I try.
I'm "scared" to OK this prompt though.... maybe the question comes *after*
you OK this prompt?
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot23.jpg>

The only reason I don't OK that prompt is that it seems to be asking to use
the *entire* disk where I want it to be alongside of Windows (not on top of
Windows).

> Are you booting via BIOS or EFI?

It's an old HP Pavillion tower which, I think, is too old for EFI.

Here's a screenshot from the original post that implies it's "Legacy".
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot05.jpg>

>> I've done dual-boot Linux with Windows before where it was never this hard.
>
> What specifically are you referring to as hard? Creating free space and
> creating a new partition?

What's hard is that it's seemingly impossible to get Ubuntu to *ask* to
install itself *alongside* Windows 10 like it does in the tutorial:
<https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jDA_U7VjD7I/Wuvdthe-gpI/AAAAAAAAQ14/2zbQBhPn8kYy8bUQLHybuhmEdA07ElnmwCLcBGAs/s1600/Ubuntu1804-Dual-Boot-Windows10-7.png>

>> I don't understand yet why Ubuntu won't give me the choice of side-by-side
>> installation with Windows, whether I do it from the start:
>
> I don't know. I question if the side-by-side feature is included in the
> 18.04 installer or not.

Thanks for that suggestion. It might just be that Ubuntu *can't* install
side by side with Windows nowadays then, at least with the Desktop ISO from
https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot47.jpg>
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso
Size: 1921843200 bytes (1832 MB)
SHA256: A55353D837CBF7BC006CF49EEFF05AE5044E757498E30643A9199B9A25BC9A34

There's no way for me to figure that out except to ask if anyone here has
ever installed Ubuntu side by side with Windows using the default installer
as described in the original post?

> A non-existent feature is not necessarily a bug.

I would agree with you that if the 64-bit Ubuntu 18.05LTS Desktop ISO can't
install next to Windows 10, then that's not a bug - it's just a non
existent feature.

But is that the case?

I have no way of knowing if my expectation is valid that the 64-bit Ubuntu
18.04 Desktop ISO doesn't have the ability to install alongside Windows.

Has anyone in this newsgroup installed the 64-bit Ubuntu 18.04 Desktop ISO
alongside Windows successfully?

How did you get Ubuntu to *ask* this set of questions?
<https://i.stack.imgur.com/MADNE.png>

Arlen Holder

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Jun 17, 2018, 3:13:11 AM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 01:30:28 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote:

> Given that, be sure to check back here before making any changes.

Thanks for that advice.

I actually have 3 separate hard drives in that tower, which was shown in
the first photo from the original post where I disconnected two of them:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot01.jpg>

I bought a brand new hard drive to start fresh, and all I've done so far is
put Windows 10 and my software DVD on it so there's nothing to back up
since it's just Windows + the software which is easy to recover.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot04.jpg>

I just want Ubuntu to install "alongside" Windows, where I am not sure what
to say to this prompt, which 'seems' to be asking to install on top of
Windows (but maybe not?????).
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot23.jpg>

The only reason I don't OK that prompt is that it seems to be asking to use
the *entire* disk where I want it to be alongside of Windows (not on top of
Windows).

> also strongly advise making a full backup, and make sure you know how
> to recover from that backup, before continuing. A mistake in the
> partitioning stage can wipe out the windows install, and without a
> full backup would require re-installing windows.

Thanks for that advice where all my data is on those two other (currently
disconnected) hard disk drives, so I can "play" with the Windows 10 hard
drive partitions if that's what I must do to get Ubuntu to simply ask this
question:

* Install Ubuntu alongside Windows 10
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Install-ubuntu-along-windows10.jpg>

Some tutorials show it as this question:
* Install Ubuntu alongside Windows Boot Manager
<https://cdn.itzgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Install-Ubuntu-18.04-Alongside-With-Windows-10-Automatic-Partitioning.png>

I *never* see that choice no matter how many times I try.

> I also don't use Ubuntu. If you can get into a command prompt with it,
> the command "blkid /dev/sd*" will show what type of partition table is in
> use and which partitions are in use. That's the information that will be
> needed for others more familiar with windows to provide advice on how
> to proceed.

I don't yet have Ubuntu installed on the hard drive.

Ubuntu is only on the DVD as a bootable ISO.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot07.jpg>

When I boot to that bootable ISO and open a terminal window,
I can run the suggested command:
$ blkid
Which reports the one hard drive and the DVD ISO disc:
/dev/sda1: ... LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs"
/dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660"
As shown below:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot52.jpg>

I don't see any indication yet that there is anything wrong with the hard
disk drive (as it's brand spanking new) so I think the problem is:
a. Either the tutorials suck, or,
b. I screwed up something (but Windows 10 boots just fine), or,
c. Ubuntu can't do what the tutorials all say it can do.

I'd be perfectly happy if I could get Ubuntu to pop this form up!
<https://i.stack.imgur.com/MADNE.png>

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 3:13:21 AM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:45:19 -0400, Paul wrote:

> So back to your problem. How many hard drives
> are connected currently. I had a single 500GB
> hard drive connected for my test, and I got the
> "correct" option with the "something else" offered
> at the bottom.

Hi Paul,

The tower has 3 hard drives in it where the first picture in the original
post shows this picture where I disconnected the two older drives for the
purpose of installing Windows and Ubuntu on the brand new terabyte drive.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot01.jpg>

In Windows, when I look at the disk, it seems fine:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot51.jpg>

And yet, I can't get *this* message to come out of Ubuntu!
<https://i.stack.imgur.com/MADNE.png>

In essence, I don't see anything wrong, but at the same time, I can't get
Ubuntu to simply *ask* to be installed, side by side, with Windows.

Ubuntu seems to just want to install itself as the only hard drive:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot42.jpg>

Maybe I'm supposed to "OK" that screen above?
(It sure doesn't seem like I should though as it seems to want to install
on top of Windows. Am I just misinterpreting what that screen is asking?)

In essence, all I'm asking is...
What's the trick to get Ubuntu to just *ask* to go alongside Windows?

stepore

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 3:14:38 AM6/17/18
to
On 06/16/2018 07:37 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD
> as a dual boot?

Why doesn't Windows shut down properly?
Do you have "Fast startup" enabled in windows?

Windows 10 uses some stupid hybrid hibernation instead of a proper
shutdown. Try turning off fast startup or change the power off settings
or maybe even a

shutdown /s /t 0
from cmd or powershell i guess should work.

Then try again.

And please, for the love of Ghawd, settle down. Take a breath. And stop
saying side-by-side.

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 4:09:34 AM6/17/18
to
On my test setup, normally I keep Fast Startup disabled
(by using powercfg /h off). With Fast Startup enabled,
you can see "complaints" about the Windows partitions
being mountable read-only (boot log/dmesg), but the
Ubiquity menu here continues to present the correct dialog
on my setup.

So that doesn't appear to cause the "Install Type"
dialog to appear.

There's got to be something else, like too many
disks.

*******

This string, appears in the following bug report:

No devices are listed in the "Installation Type" screen

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1064151

I have tried the "nodmraid" option and still have the problem.

So the theory in that thread, near the bottom, is
that Ubiquity has gone off on a RAID lark of some sort.

But nobody returns in the thread to say the idea
resolved the problem.

Paul

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 4:29:08 AM6/17/18
to
Paul wrote:

>
> So the theory in that thread, near the bottom, is
> that Ubiquity has gone off on a RAID lark of some sort.

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=145768

"i had the exact same problem and this solved it:

Usually this happens if there is raid metadata on the disk.
If the disk was used in raid earlier, or similar.
Formatting doesn't remove the metadata.

If you are NOT running raid, boot into live mode and do:

sudo dmraid -r -E /dev/sda (or /dev/sdb, etc,
depending on the disk name)

but the issue is my latop (HP ENVY 6t-1000) has the
"intel smart start technology" which really *is* a
raid setup. So as soon as i run it, it borks my windows
install. and i have to run recovery when i try and boot
into it. :S
"

Sounds like fun.

You have to be real careful with RAID setups.

After you're done with them, it helps to thoroughly
clean them. Secure Erase will do that.

I've found in some cases, shoving the drive into
a second computer that cannot possibly recognize
the RAID metadata, enhances the ability to easily
clean it. A diskpart "clean all" is then sufficient.
Or roll your own with "dd" in such a case (dd with
/dev/zero is equivalent).

If you're good with math, the metadata is up near
the end of the disk (not always, but a good percentage
of the time), and the appropriate "seek" or
"skip" option to the dd program, will reduce the
erasure time for the metadata considerably. I've done
RAID experiments before, specifically so I would
know the offset of such metadata. (Zero the disk,
add RAID metadata, pull the disk and use a hex
editor to examine the disk on a second, non-RAID machine.)

In any case, if you F*** with RAID, you get
what you deserve. Been there, and done that,
and learned my lesson. Not only is RAID fun
to set up, it's also fun to get rid of
(properly). If the above dmraid -r -E /dev/sda
invocation does anything, I would be surprised,
as RAID does not give up easily :-)

If you really want to have some fun, clip down
two disks with HPA (Host Protected Area). Then
add RAID. Which will position the metadata in
an abnormal location. Removing the HPA later,
causes the metadata to "get lost in the lower part
of the disk". But of course, an HPA is even worse!!!
You're only allowed one HPA command per boot cycle,
so you have to reboot many many times, to carry out
HPA projects. I've used that technique to make
"small disks", for the purpose of carrying out
install procedures for RAID setups. You don't want
to wait all night for a pair of 2TB mirrors to clone.
Whereas if they're clipped down to 4GB disk size each,
it takes no time at all to do various experiments.
My 4GB hard drive here only does 5MB/sec, so you
would not want to use two actual 4GB hard drives
for this purpose. That would suck.

Paul

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 4:36:07 AM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-17 09:13, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 01:30:28 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote:


>> I also don't use Ubuntu. If you can get into a command prompt with it,
>> the command "blkid /dev/sd*" will show what type of partition table is in
>> use and which partitions are in use. That's the information that will be
>> needed for others more familiar with windows to provide advice on how
>> to proceed.
>
> I don't yet have Ubuntu installed on the hard drive.
>
> Ubuntu is only on the DVD as a bootable ISO.
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot07.jpg>
>
> When I boot to that bootable ISO and open a terminal window,
> I can run the suggested command:
> $ blkid
> Which reports the one hard drive and the DVD ISO disc:
> /dev/sda1: ... LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs"
> /dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660"
> As shown below:
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot52.jpg>

This is the only important information in that post. Avoid the rest.

According to it, there is a single partition on sda.

I would ask for the output of:

fdisk -l

and please post ONLY that answer.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

David W. Hodgins

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 5:10:32 AM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 03:13:10 -0400, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> When I boot to that bootable ISO and open a terminal window,
> I can run the suggested command:
> $ blkid
> Which reports the one hard drive and the DVD ISO disc:
> /dev/sda1: ... LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs"
> /dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660"
> As shown below:
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot52.jpg>

You missed the /dev/sd* parameter which will indicate whether it's a dos
(mbr) partition table, or a gpt partition table, as well as list the
partitions. Note for pcie ssd drives, the parameter would be /dev/nv*.

For example on my system it shows ...
$ /sbin/blkid /dev/sd*
/dev/sda: PTTYPE="dos"
/dev/sda1: LABEL="efi" UUID="3DAB-4B6E" TYPE="vfat"
/dev/sda10: LABEL="aback" UUID="07b89ef2-0604-4b4
<snip long list of paritions>
/dev/sdd: PTUUID="59455ef4-0b46-458f-8dd8-664f01172670" PTTYPE="gpt"
/dev/sdd1: LABEL="labeld1" UUID="2e8544e0-ce9f-43da-859f-36fd14de3a54" TYPE="ext4" PARTLABEL="named1" PARTUUID="9325...
<snip rest>

So sda is a dos/mbr partition table while sdd uses a gpt partition table.

As Carlos indicated fdisk can also provide useful info, though again I'd
add additional parameters ...
$ /sbin/fdisk -luS /dev/sd?

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:04:07 AM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-17 11:10, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 03:13:10 -0400, Arlen Holder
> <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> When I boot to that bootable ISO and open a terminal window,
>> I can run the suggested command:
>>  $ blkid
>> Which reports the one hard drive and the DVD ISO disc:
>>  /dev/sda1: ... LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs"
>>  /dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660"
>> As shown below:
>>  <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot52.jpg>
>
> You missed the /dev/sd* parameter which will indicate whether it's a dos
> (mbr) partition table, or a gpt partition table, as well as list the
> partitions. Note for pcie ssd drives, the parameter would be /dev/nv*.

On my system, plain "blkid" lists all partitions:


cer@Telcontar:~> blkid
/dev/sda1: LABEL="c_storage_02" UUID="...
/dev/sdd1: LABEL="bios_grub" UUID="...
/dev/sdd2: LABEL="c_boot_1" UUID="...
/dev/sdd3: LABEL="c_boot_2" UUID="...


Your way apparently only sorts it differently:

cer@Telcontar:~> blkid /dev/sd*
/dev/sda1: LABEL="c_storage_02"
/dev/sdb10: LABEL="a_test3" UUID="...

as root it gives information on the partition type, yes:

Telcontar:~ # blkid /dev/sd*
/dev/sda: PTUUID="..." PTTYPE="gpt"
/dev/sda1: LABEL="c_storage_02" UUID="...
/dev/sdb: PTUUID="..." PTTYPE="gpt"
/dev/sdb1: PARTLABEL="primary" PARTUUID="..."
/dev/sdb10: LABEL="a_test3" UUID="...
PARTUUID="99ed5c63-2166-46f5-8296-80ca9ec3461e"


The problem is it causes bash to expand the line to contain all devices
prior to calling blkid. It is thus bash who finds the devices, not blkid.



> As Carlos indicated fdisk can also provide useful info, though again I'd
> add additional parameters ...
> $ /sbin/fdisk -luS /dev/sd?

Don't - because of bash expansion.

Just use "fdisk -l" or "fdisk -luS".

It will list all partitions and disks.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

David W. Hodgins

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:42:47 AM6/17/18
to
Just replying to this part for now.

I want it to use bash expansion, to select the hard drives and only the
hard drives. On my system without specifying the devices, the output
will also have the 16 ram drives listed first, so about 90 lines of
output I don't want, before the hard drive output.

Wolf K

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 7:14:39 AM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-16 22:37, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD
> as a dual boot?
>
> I tried a half-dozen times, but Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop just won't*ask*
> to install side-by-side to a new Windows 10 Pro 1803 in a single-HDD
> dual-boot arrangement.
>
> Any ideas why the latest Ubuntu desktop won't install side-by-side
> next to the latest Windows 10 Pro?
[...]

Try creating unallocated space or a blank partition.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and
what is right to do. Potter Stewart

William Unruh

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 9:32:49 AM6/17/18
to
Windows 10 tends to install all sorts of partitions-- The main partition, a
swap partition, a recovery partition, and perhaps more.

What dows
fdisk -l /dev/sda
give you
Of if that does not try
fdisk -l and look for the Disk.

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 2:49:27 PM6/17/18
to
Paul wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>>
>> So the theory in that thread, near the bottom, is
>> that Ubiquity has gone off on a RAID lark of some sort.
>
> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=145768
>
> "i had the exact same problem and this solved it:
>
> Usually this happens if there is raid metadata on the disk.
> If the disk was used in raid earlier, or similar.
> Formatting doesn't remove the metadata.
>
> If you are NOT running raid, boot into live mode and do:
>
> sudo dmraid -r -E /dev/sda (or /dev/sdb, etc,
> depending on the disk name)
>
> but the issue is my latop (HP ENVY 6t-1000) has the
> "intel smart start technology" which really *is* a
> raid setup. So as soon as i run it, it borks my windows
> install. and i have to run recovery when i try and boot
> into it. :S
> "
>
> Sounds like fun.

Reproduced!

I switched the motherboard to RAID mode in the BIOS.

Installed two disks. Installed Win10 as a RAID1 mirror
on Intel RSTe (inbox driver, no RAID console).

1) Booted Ubuntu with the two disk mirror present.
The install menu works properly. Since the volume
hadn't been resized, Ubuntu offered to erase Win10
and install Ubuntu instead. So this case seems to
be working fine.

2) Unplugged one hard drive. Windows still boots,
as it's a "degraded" RAID1 mirror. The BIOS RAID screen
at startup, confirms "degraded" in yellow letters.

Boot Ubuntu now, and the installer menu shows
the "Install Type" screen without elaborating.

https://s22.postimg.cc/3pdzpp9cx/disks_command.gif

https://s22.postimg.cc/4ro68a2gx/install_type_screen_failure.gif

https://s22.postimg.cc/4ews2bpep/degraded_RAID1_disk_still_mounts.gif

The degraded RAID1 drive also mounts normally
when double-clicked in file management. Which means the
PARTTYPE wasn't quite as mysterious as claimed. In fact,
there's no sign in DMESG, of anything RAID at all.

Paul

Grant Taylor

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 3:48:36 PM6/17/18
to
On 06/17/2018 12:49 PM, Paul wrote:
> Reproduced!

Yay.

> I switched the motherboard to RAID mode in the BIOS.
>
> Installed two disks. Installed Win10 as a RAID1 mirror on Intel RSTe
> (inbox driver, no RAID console).
>
> 1) Booted Ubuntu with the two disk mirror present. The install menu works
> properly. Since the volume hadn't been resized, Ubuntu offered to erase
> Win10 and install Ubuntu instead. So this case seems to be working fine.
>
> 2) Unplugged one hard drive. Windows still boots, as it's a "degraded"
> RAID1 mirror. The BIOS RAID screen at startup, confirms "degraded"
> in yellow letters.
>
> Boot Ubuntu now, and the installer menu shows the "Install Type" screen
> without elaborating.

Nice investigative work Paul.

> The degraded RAID1 drive also mounts normally when double-clicked in
> file management. Which means the PARTTYPE wasn't quite as mysterious as
> claimed. In fact, there's no sign in DMESG, of anything RAID at all.

I suspect that the mounting is relying on magic information for the file
system more than information for the partition type.

I do question what the path would be back from this to a fully
functional RAID. I suspect that Windows could be fixed to have an
optimal RAID again. I doubt that the Linux install would be RAIDed.

This sounds like (what I think is called) a "swing root" type RAID where
it's actually two stand alone disks and a software driver in kernel that
applies software RAID at the driver layer below the block device. I
think it also requires completely ignoring the underlying disks.

I've also heard this type of RAID referred to as "Fake RAID". I can see
how it could cause complications that an installer wants to just avoid.

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 3:59:08 PM6/17/18
to
It's a RAID1 mirror, and repair would consist of using the
"Rebuild" command at BIOS level. Some RAID implementations
can rebuild at runtime, but I don't know whether Intel RSTe
does that or not.

The OS in this case has an in-box driver. Downloading
a driver and RAID Console from the Intel site, gives
additional functionality. In the RAID Console for example,
you would be able to see the degraded status.

In my experiment, with only inbox driver to work with,
the BIOS has the yellow "degraded" text, which stays
on the screen for ten seconds. But there's not a peep
from the Win10 OS screens - not even a Notification of
a degraded array. Which means pushing the power
button and walking away, you lose the ability to
detect your RAID1 has degraded.

But if you installed the full Intel package, there
would be other possible outcomes.

The inbox drivers typically are just drivers and
not consoles. For example, sound works a similar way.
If you want "all the sound functions" in a control
panel, you'd install the RealTek audio package, rather
than use the generic inbox HDAudio driver.

Paul

Dirk T. Verbeek

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 4:14:16 PM6/17/18
to
Op 17-06-18 om 04:37 schreef Arlen Holder:
> <SNIP>
>
> In summary, can you offer a suggestion as to why Ubuntu 18.04 does not ask
> to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD as a dual boot setup?
>
Having read the other replies I would try a different approach.
I believe Win10 also has a utility to make free space on the C drive.
Or use the utility on the boot disk to do the same.
Next use the boot disk utility to repartition the free space.
Now install using manual partitioning.


Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 4:31:07 PM6/17/18
to
Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:

> Having read the other replies I would try a different approach.
> I believe Win10 also has a utility to make free space on the C drive.
> Or use the utility on the boot disk to do the same.
> Next use the boot disk utility to repartition the free space.
> Now install using manual partitioning.

He can't get to the "Something Else" screen, as it
drops to the "Install Type" screen, which offers no
controls. It's because PARTTYPE returns <unknown>
so the installer is effectively bailing, but
without explaining why to the user.

It drops to the "Install Type" screen, because there
is RAID metadata that it does not comprehend. Apparently,
for example, a degraded mirror is not something it understands.
The main (Live) OS doesn't have a problem with the
degraded mirror, and will still mount the partition
on it.

The installer is not a total write-off. If you have
an actual working RAID array (like a RAID1 mirror),
it does recognize that, and offers the usual options
(which would include "Something Else"). So if the
OPs RAID was still functional, this wouldn't have
happened.

When you experiment with RAID, *don't forget* the
cleanup steps when you're finished... Been there
and done that. You can come back months later,
do something with your scratch disks, get
strange symptoms... and then a light goes
on and "oh yeah, this is my RAID disk experiment".
As I write this, the RAID cleaning process is
running on the other computer, to prevent future
issues with the scratch drives I used.

Paul

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 5:05:24 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 13:32:47 -0000 (UTC), William Unruh wrote:

> Windows 10 tends to install all sorts of partitions-- The main partition, a
> swap partition, a recovery partition, and perhaps more.
>
> What dows
> fdisk -l /dev/sda
> give you
> Of if that does not try
> fdisk -l and look for the Disk.

I agree with you that, in the past, Windows did install multiple partitions
- but - in this case of the absolute latest of Windows 10 ISOs, it did not
seem to install anything but a single partition of the entire brand new
terabyte HDD.

After booting to the 64bit Ubuntu Desktop 18.04 ISO, I tried both the blkid
and fdisk commands, where only the blkid command worked to any extent.
<>

$ blkid
/dev/sda1: LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs" ...
/dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660" ...

I don't see any indication there is anything wrong with the HDD partitions.
I think the tutorials suck in that they seem to have skipped a step.

The step they all seem to have skipped is what should transpire between
this step
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Installlation-type-ubuntu18-04.jpg>
and this step
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Install-ubuntu-along-windows10.jpg>
Where the tutorials show them as sequential!
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/dual-boot-ubuntu-18-04-lts-with-windows-10/>

But they are NOT sequential:(
If the tutorials were correct, I'd be done by now.
And I wouldn't be asking this question here, of the Ubuntu experts.

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 5:11:45 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 21:05:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> After booting to the 64bit Ubuntu Desktop 18.04 ISO, I tried both the blkid
> and fdisk commands, where only the blkid command worked to any extent.
> <>
>
> $ blkid
> /dev/sda1: LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs" ...
> /dev/sr0: ... LABEL="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64" TYPE="iso9660" ...
>
> I don't see any indication there is anything wrong with the HDD partitions.
> I think the tutorials suck in that they seem to have skipped a step.

I forgot to include the screenshot in the above post.
My apologies for not being complete in my answer.

Here is the missing screenshot:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot52165.jpg>

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 5:42:42 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 10:35:53 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I would ask for the output of:
> fdisk -l
> and please post ONLY that answer.

Here is the result of "sudo fdisk -l" where I'm not sure what loops are:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot56.jpg>

Device = /dev/sda1
Boot = *
Start = 2049
End = 1871601663
Sectors = 1871599616
Size = 892.5G
Id = 7
Type = HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 5:51:49 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 05:10:10 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote:

> For example on my system it shows ...
> $ /sbin/blkid /dev/sd*
> $ /sbin/fdisk -luS /dev/sd?

Here is the result from the blkid /dev/sd*
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot54.jpg>

And here is the result from fdisk -luS /dev/sd?
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot55.jpg>

Both screenshots are summarized below for your convenience.
$ blkid /dev/sd*
/dev/sda: TYPE="promise_fasttrack_raid_member"
/dev/sda1: LABEL="Disk1" ... TYPE="ntfs" ...

$ sudo fdisk -luS /dev/sd?
Disk /dev/sda: 931.5 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
...
Disklabel type: dos
Device = /dev/sda1
Boot = *
Start = 2048

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:08:16 PM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-17 23:42, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 10:35:53 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I would ask for the output of:
>> fdisk -l
>> and please post ONLY that answer.
>
> Here is the result of "sudo fdisk -l" where I'm not sure what loops are:
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot56.jpg>

Ok, disk is 1 GB unit with plain DOS partition table (ie, not GPT), and
a single partition. No hidden partitions.

Disk has 1953525168 sectors (512 bytes each) and the partition uses
1871599616 sectors, leaving 81925552 sectors unused, which makes 40 GiB.

A small Linux system could be installed.


However, from another photo you posted:

> Here is the result from the blkid /dev/sd*
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot54.jpg>
>
> And here is the result from fdisk -luS /dev/sd?
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot55.jpg>

the first one says the disk is a "promise_fasttrack_raid-member", and
someone here said that you would not be able to install on such a disk
without erasing it first.




Really, there is no need to obfuscate the UUID identifiers, those are
not private info, just usually too long to paste into emails.

And obviously, you were supposed to do the commands as root or with
sudo. You should know, if you are going to use ubuntu, that if you get
"permission denied" you must use sudo. No need to post here a photo full
of "permission denied"s.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:23:03 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:31:09 -0400, Paul wrote:

> As I write this, the RAID cleaning process is
> running on the other computer, to prevent future
> issues with the scratch drives I used.

Hi Paul,
I'm thoroughly confused about both the RAID thing (which none of the
tutorials mentioned) and the disabling of Fast Startup (which all the
tutorials said was optional).

You are totally correct though that there is some kind of "hardware"
(BIOS?) RAID thingey set up - but - there is no RAID (and there has never
been a RAID since I have had this desktop).

This screenshot from the original post is the only indication that RAID
even exists in any form (which must be coming from the computer hardware):
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>

The problem is, as you know, that I can't get Ubuntu to step 2 below:
STEP 1:
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Installlation-type-ubuntu18-04.jpg>
STEP 2:
That tutorial doesn't even mention fastboot.

This tutorial, likewise, shows those two screens as sequential:
<https://linoxide.com/distros/install-ubuntu-18-04-dual-boot-windows-10/>
But that tutorial shows Windows options that don't exist on my Windows PC.

Nonetheless, that tutorial does at least discuss "fast startup" but all it
says is that fast startup can prevent a boot to the Ubuntu CD, which
clearly isn't my problem.

Nonetheless, I have no problem attempting to shut off Windows fast startup
(aka fast boot) where that tutorial says to follow this procedure:
RMB-Start > Run > Power Options > Choose what the power buttons do >
Change settings that are currently unavailable >
Uncheck [x]Turn on fast startup
Then...
LMB-Start > Settings > Update & Security > Recovery > Advanced startup >
Restart now > Troubleshoot > UEFI Firmware Settings > Restart
[Note that I don't have EUFI because I have BIOS (legacy).]

As usual, the tutorial was wrong in some ways where my latest Windows 10
Pro has the following steps.
RMB-Start > Run > Power Options > Related settings >
Additional power settings > Choose what the power buttons do >
Change settings that are currently unavailable >
Uncheck [x]Turn on fast startup > Save changes
Then...
LMB-Start > Settings > Home > Update & Security > Recovery >
Advanced startup > Restart now (which said "Please wait" on a blue screen
Troubleshoot > But then there was nothing familiar in the tutorial
My only choice now was (a) Reset this PC or (b) Advanced options
I didn't get anything at this point that was in the tutorial so I
simply hit the Advanced options and then Startup, but then it got deep
so I simply returned to the operating system.

I'm not sure how to tell if "Advanced startup" is now disabled though.
And I'm not sure how to (or if I should) disable the RAID thingey.
[The disk is not RAIDed and it never was to my knowledge.]

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:38:56 PM6/17/18
to
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 00:08:10 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> the first one says the disk is a "promise_fasttrack_raid-member", and
> someone here said that you would not be able to install on such a disk
> without erasing it first.

Paul kindly mentioned the RAID situation, where I'm thoroughly confused
since there never was RAID on this system AFAIK but if I press "control f"
at the POST prompt, this raid-related screen does pop up (as noted in the
original post):
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>

Since I'm never going to use the RAID, I would not mind turning that off
(if it's turned on), but AFAIK, the RAID is not enabled.

All I did was buy a new terabyte HDD and install the latest Windows 10 ISO
on it... nothing more ... where I didn't enable or touch any RAID settings
at that time. Then I tried to install Ubuntu.

Given the HDD started out blank, I don't see how this sentence above makes
sense though ... so that's where I'm confused:
"you would not be able to install the disk without erasing it first."

I can erase the disk - but it came erased in the first place.
So I don't see how erasing it would change anything.
Do you?

> Really, there is no need to obfuscate the UUID identifiers, those are
> not private info, just usually too long to paste into emails.

Thanks. I see I missed a couple anyway ... so whatever they indicate, you
know it by now! :)

> And obviously, you were supposed to do the commands as root or with
> sudo. You should know, if you are going to use ubuntu, that if you get
> "permission denied" you must use sudo. No need to post here a photo full
> of "permission denied"s.

I noticed belatedly my "sudo !$" so that was a mistake on my part.
Thanks for reminding me that I need to clean up results before posting.

Back to Paul's suggestions, it seems that the tutorials suck since none of
them even hinted at this problem.

I wasn't sure what Paul was suggesting with the RAID and fastboot, but I
did turn off the supposedly optional "fast boot" option in Windows
(although I should note that *every* boot has been a cold boot with the
power turned off.

I don't know how to turn off the RAID message but AFAIK, I'm not using RAID
(but I did see that "RAID promise" message too).

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 6:39:25 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 07:14:37 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> Try creating unallocated space or a blank partition.

In the original post, I had pasted this image of the unallocated space:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot06.jpg>

Those 40000MB were created by running "Shrink volume" on the original
terabyte hard disk drive which Windows was installed on.

As noted in the original post, those 40000MB were created following the
instructions here:
<https://www.linuxtechi.com/dual-boot-ubuntu-18-04-lts-with-windows-10/>

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 7:20:07 PM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-18 00:38, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 00:08:10 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> the first one says the disk is a "promise_fasttrack_raid-member", and
>> someone here said that you would not be able to install on such a disk
>> without erasing it first.
>
> Paul kindly mentioned the RAID situation, where I'm thoroughly confused
> since there never was RAID on this system AFAIK but if I press "control f"
> at the POST prompt, this raid-related screen does pop up (as noted in the
> original post):
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>
>
> Since I'm never going to use the RAID, I would not mind turning that off
> (if it's turned on), but AFAIK, the RAID is not enabled.
>
> All I did was buy a new terabyte HDD and install the latest Windows 10 ISO
> on it... nothing more ... where I didn't enable or touch any RAID settings
> at that time. Then I tried to install Ubuntu.

It is either your disk or your board. The output is clear, the disk is
seen as a raid member.


Maybe they gave you a used disk. Run this command using Linux:

smartctl -A /dev/sda

and pay attention to the line:

9 Power_On_Hours

There are also Windows programs that get the same info, but I don't know
them.



> Back to Paul's suggestions, it seems that the tutorials suck since none of
> them even hinted at this problem.

Whys should they? Tutorials do not cover abnormal situations. That's
what forums are for.

>
> I wasn't sure what Paul was suggesting with the RAID and fastboot, but I
> did turn off the supposedly optional "fast boot" option in Windows
> (although I should note that *every* boot has been a cold boot with the
> power turned off.

Both fast and slow boot start with power fully turned off. Not related.

In windows you can switch off the fast boot feature, and instead have
"hibernate" show up in the menu, so that you can choose "hibernate" or
"power off".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 7:24:08 PM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-18 00:23, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:31:09 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
>> As I write this, the RAID cleaning process is
>> running on the other computer, to prevent future
>> issues with the scratch drives I used.
>
> Hi Paul,
> I'm thoroughly confused about both the RAID thing (which none of the
> tutorials mentioned) and the disabling of Fast Startup (which all the
> tutorials said was optional).

Why should they mention that? They did not create the raid.

>
> You are totally correct though that there is some kind of "hardware"
> (BIOS?) RAID thingey set up - but - there is no RAID (and there has never
> been a RAID since I have had this desktop).
>
> This screenshot from the original post is the only indication that RAID
> even exists in any form (which must be coming from the computer hardware):
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>
>
> The problem is, as you know, that I can't get Ubuntu to step 2 below:

Irrelevant.

> LMB-Start > Settings > Update & Security > Recovery > Advanced startup >
> Restart now > Troubleshoot > UEFI Firmware Settings > Restart
> [Note that I don't have EUFI because I have BIOS (legacy).]
>
> As usual, the tutorial was wrong in some ways where my latest Windows 10
> Pro has the following steps.

Gosh, do you really expect the tutorial to describe every possibly
situation in every computer?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 7:24:15 PM6/17/18
to
In one of my posts, I tested Fast Startup ON and Fast Startup OFF.

If you read your DMESG output, there will be warnings about
Fast Startup ON causing NTFS volume mounts to be read-only.

It turns out this makes NO DIFFERENCE to the Ubuntu installer.
It was still able to scan the C: drive and determine it was
Windows 10, and offer the usual options such as "install
beside" or "erase whole disk" or "Something Else".

*******

However, the RAID situation was where it got interesting.

With Windows 10 on a fully functional two disk RAID1 mirror,
the Ubuntu installer STILL worked properly. You would
have to shrink a partition or whatever, to get the
"install beside".

But when one disk was removed from the RAID mirror pair,
dropping the array to "degraded status", that's when the
"Install Type" dialog appeared instead of the desired
dialog while using the Ubuntu installer.

That suggests that some sort of "slightly damaged"
RAID metadata is enough to trigger your problem.
The "disks" utility in Linux shows "<unknown>" for
the partition type, when in fact it's blindingly
obvious it's still MBR partitioned and working
fine. The regular file manager in the LiveCD has
no problem mounting partitions from there. It's
whatever passes for a "PARTTYPE" piece of code,
that has the problem. I think instead of whining
about the MBR, instead it's done a series of
RAID probes and decided the pattern is not
something it recognizes. Once the <unknown>
status is detected, it in effect "bails on
ruining the RAID".

Of all the test cases, only one test case matched
yours, and that's "degraded RAID metadata", not
"fully functional RAID metadata" or any other
corner case that I tried.

*******

You'll have fun with the Promise controller, I
assure you. Steps I would do:

1) Back up the OS partition on the Promise drive.
Just in case erasure is called for. It shouldn't
take long to back up a fresh install.
2) Inspect the available documentation for your
Promise chip. For example, it might be a 20378.
3) Once you figure out a way to set the metadata
back to "JBOD" or you managed to erase it entirely,
you can use your backup software emergency boot
disk, to restore your OS to the drive. There
should be no problem restoring it. I'm not convinced
the metadata issue is broken enough for either
OS type to stop booting.

Note that "naive erasure" of a drive is NOT ENOUGH.
When a RAID controller sees RAID metadata, it
moves the end_of_disk mark, such that no "ordinary"
writes can reach the RAID metadata.

The RAID console, or the RAID BIOS interface, can
write that area.

Moving the Promise disk to an Intel SATA port, now
the disk will become full sized again, making erasure
of the metadata area possible again. Very few branded
RAID problems, are portable. Promise doesn't recognize
Intel, and Intel doesn't recognize Promise. Tomshardware
did a matrix test years ago, proving what people
already knew anecdotally.

Note that AMD licenses Promise RAID technology for some
of its SBxxx Southbridges. If the RAID BIOS uses
<ctrl> F for BIOS entry for example, that's the Promise
hotkey, present on an AMD Southbridge motherboard.
That port then, would offer less-good odds of
exposing the entire platter surface. Only if
the AMD software was particularly generous when
dealing with the metadata issues, would the AMD
port be a win (when the original problem was
caused by a Promise product).

Promise metadata is "mostly compatible" across
the Promise product line. AFAIK that was a design
objective, even if some of their more advanced controllers
support modes the older stuff doesn't. A RAID1 Mirror
for example, should work across lots of their stuff,
as it's a very simple config.

Good luck,
Paul

Paul

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 7:34:25 PM6/17/18
to
Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 00:08:10 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> the first one says the disk is a "promise_fasttrack_raid-member", and
>> someone here said that you would not be able to install on such a disk
>> without erasing it first.
>
> Paul kindly mentioned the RAID situation, where I'm thoroughly confused
> since there never was RAID on this system AFAIK but if I press "control f"
> at the POST prompt, this raid-related screen does pop up (as noted in the
> original post):
> <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>

Promise puts metadata on ALL drives, even JBOD drives.
That was a claim I did not waste time verifying
(the PDC 20378 stayed turned OFF on my P4C800-e Deluxe).

I saw one "funny" with the chip and disk in non-RAID
mode, that caused me to swear off using it. If I moved
the Promise drive to the Intel port, the first partition
would disappear. That was an incentive to stop using
the Promise chip - the policy in my computer room,
is if hardware isn't broadly compatible, I don't use it.
Not being able to move disks between ports on the
same motherboard, meant the Promise got switched off.

This should not be upsetting the Ubuntu installer.
(The JBOD status should not be cause for concern,
it is JBOD after all.) For the most part, the
Promise metadata should be benign in this situation.

AMD licensed Promise RAID code, for usage with SBxxx
Southbridges. That's why the use <ctrl>-F, just
like Promise does. If they're not using Promise-licensed
code, they'll use a different hotkey to signify
that fact.

Turning off the AMD RAID at BIOS level, and setting to AHCI,
should be enough to prevent Promise(AMD) RAID code from loading
at BIOS level.

As for your existing OS install, I haven't a clue
what all these issues mean in terms of driver
choices. Unless a RAID configuration was specified,
for the most part the driver is supposed to be
"AHCI-like".

I think you can fix this. However, I can't give
you even a wild time estimate :-/

Paul

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 8:45:22 PM6/17/18
to
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 01:18:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> It is either your disk or your board. The output is clear, the disk is
> seen as a raid member.

Thanks for that advice that the RAID controller is the problem where Ubuntu
18.04 doesn't seem to do what Ubuntu 17.04 had no problem doing on the
exact same machine only a short while ago.

I'm *sure* the RAID controller is on the motherboard since this is the
second brand new disk I've put in (previous one was Toshiba, this one is
Western Digital) where I've always done the same thing which is start with
a brand-new disk and let Windows 10 use the entire disk as a single
partition.

Also, this same machine (on the other disk) was previously set up as a dual
boot to Ubuntu 17.04, so, the RAID bug is new with Ubuntu 18.04 (as I don't
recall having this problem when I installed Ubuntu 17.04).

I have a knack for finding bugs, unfortunately.

At the very least, Ubuntu 18.04 should output a barf message.
At the very best, Ubuntu 18.4 should work as Ubuntu 17.04 did on the other
hard drive in this same machine.

My workaround will be two simple steps:
1. See if I can turn off the RAID in the BIOS, or,
2. Just give up on the buggy Ubuntu 18.04 & re-install 17.04 instead
(but I hate Unity so that means installing a desktop separately).

> Maybe they gave you a used disk. Run this command using Linux:
> smartctl -A /dev/sda
> and pay attention to the line:
> 9 Power_On_Hours

Interesting command. Thank you for that suggestion. It's a brand-new disk
from Fryes, so, here's the interesting results, where I had to install the
command first:
$ sudo apt-get install smartctl
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot57.jpg>

Then I was able to run:
$ sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot58.jpg>

Where the "Power_On_Hours" line revealed:
ID# = 9 Power_On_Hours
Flag = 0x0032
Value = 100
Worst = 100
Thresh = 000
Type = Old_age
Updated = Always
When_Failed = -
Raw_Value = 206

From that, I assume the HDD has 206 hours of power on, which is pretty low
considering I leave the machine powered up all the time continuously.

> There are also Windows programs that get the same info, but I don't know
> them.

I can boot to the Ubuntu 18.04 ISO just fine so that's ok.

> Both fast and slow boot start with power fully turned off. Not related.

I agree with you - where I *always* boot from a cold start whenever
installing an ISO but I disabled the fast-start anyway - just to get that
out of the picture.

> In windows you can switch off the fast boot feature, and instead have
> "hibernate" show up in the menu, so that you can choose "hibernate" or
> "power off".

Thanks for that advice. It's a desktop so "hibernate" isn't all that
useful. I'm perfectly fine with a full shutdown to its cold state.

What I need to figure out how to do is how to get Ubuntu 18.04 to do what
Ubuntu 17.04 did naturally, which is just find the disk and install to that
disk (with or without RAID on the motherboard being an issue).

Carlos E.R.

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 10:40:07 PM6/17/18
to
On 2018-06-18 01:34, Paul wrote:
> Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 00:08:10 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> the first one says the disk is a "promise_fasttrack_raid-member", and
>>> someone here said that you would not be able to install on such a disk
>>> without erasing it first.
>>
>> Paul kindly mentioned the RAID situation, where I'm thoroughly confused
>> since there never was RAID on this system AFAIK but if I press
>> "control f"
>> at the POST prompt, this raid-related screen does pop up (as noted in the
>> original post):
>>  <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot11.jpg>
>
> Promise puts metadata on ALL drives, even JBOD drives.
> That was a claim I did not waste time verifying
> (the PDC 20378 stayed turned OFF on my P4C800-e Deluxe).

:-(



--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arlen Holder

unread,
Jun 17, 2018, 11:14:31 PM6/17/18
to
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 19:34:28 -0400, Paul wrote:

> Turning off the AMD RAID at BIOS level, and setting to AHCI,
> should be enough to prevent Promise(AMD) RAID code from loading
> at BIOS level.

I shut down the HP Pavillion desktop, pressed F10 upon cold startup, went
into the "Advanced" BIOS tab:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot59.jpg>

The SATA Controller Mode was set, as Paul had guessed, to RAID.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot60.jpg>

My three choices were IDE, RAID, AHCI:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot61.jpg>

I changed the SATA Controller Mode to AHCI as per Paul's suggestion:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_dualboot62.jpg>

Of course, I had no idea what "AHCI" means, but Google is my friend...
What does AHCI Mode, IDE Mode, RAID Mode, & SATA Mean in the BIOS settings
<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-hardware/what-does-ahci-mode-ide-mode-raid-mode-sata-mean/d622d5cd-41c4-4b84-90ef-cea69aa47089>

AHCI - Advanced Host Controller Interface - this is a hardware mechanism
that allows the software to communicate with Serial ATA (SATA) devices. It
offers features such as hot-plugging and native command queuing (NCQ).

IDE - Integrated Drive Electronics - IDE is b