Updates, Zypper and other paths

[Andrew]

I have four systems for various purposes, all of them are currently
running Leap 15.3. Updates are applied directly (the Software Updates
process after logging in) or via a "zypper up" using ssh-as-root from
another machine.
This works fine for three of the systems, it is the other one which is
confusing me.

A remote "zypper up" just applied 15 updates, repeating it showed
"Nothing to do". The trouble is, the message:
> The following 101 package updates will NOT be installed:

A remote yast -> Online Update also finds nothing to do.

Logging in there locally and letting Software Update run, it comes up
with an additional 20 updates. Applying these - with all the updates of
affected packages and libraries - reduces the "will NOT be installed"
list to just 5 entries, implying that the 20 + dependencies expanded to
96 - pretty much normal.
Any ideas why "zypper up" ignored those 20/96 packages? This behaviour
is normal for this one machine.

Just in case it matters, the list of 101 packages is:
MozillaFirefox MozillaFirefox-translations-common PackageKit
PackageKit-backend-zypp PackageKit-gstreamer-plugin
PackageKit-gtk3-module PackageKit-lang cron cronie efibootmgr file
file-magic ghostscript ghostscript-x11 gimp-plugins-python
gstreamer-plugins-ugly gstreamer-plugins-ugly-lang gtk3-data
gtk3-immodule-amharic gtk3-immodule-inuktitut gtk3-immodule-thai
gtk3-immodule-tigrigna
gtk3-immodule-vietnamese gtk3-lang gtk3-schema gtk3-tools
ibus-dict-emoji libaom0 libcroco-0_6-3 libdcerpc-binding0
libdcerpc-binding0-32bit libdcerpc0 libdcerpc0-32bit libgtk-3-0
libibus-1_0-5 libmagic1 libndr-krb5pac0 libndr-krb5pac0-32bit
libndr-nbt0 libndr-nbt0-32bit libndr-standard0 libndr-standard0-32bit
libndr1 libndr1-32bit libnetapi0 libnetapi0-32bit libpackagekit-glib2-18
libpython2_7-1_0 libsamba-credentials0 libsamba-credentials0-32bit
libsamba-errors0 libsamba-errors0-32bit libsamba-hostconfig0
libsamba-hostconfig0-32bit libsamba-passdb0 libsamba-passdb0-32bit
libsamba-policy0-python3 libsamba-util0 libsamba-util0-32bit libsamdb0
libsamdb0-32bit libsmbclient0 libsmbconf0 libsmbconf0-32bit libsmbldap2
libsmbldap2-32bit libtevent-util0 libtevent-util0-32bit libwbclient0
libwbclient0-32bit libyui-ncurses-pkg15 libyui-ncurses15
libyui-qt-graph15 libyui-qt-pkg15 libyui-qt15 libyui15 mozilla-nspr
netcfg polkit-default-privs python python-base samba samba-client
samba-client-32bit samba-libs samba-libs-32bit samba-libs-python3
samba-python3 samba-winbind samba-winbind-32bit typelib-1_0-Gtk-3_0
typelib-1_0-PackageKitGlib-1_0 usbutils wxWidgets-lang xorg-x11-fonts
xorg-x11-fonts-converted xorg-x11-fonts-core xorg-x11-fonts-legacy
yast2-theme yast2-theme-breeze yast2-theme-oxygen

The remaining 5 are:
MozillaFirefox MozillaFirefox-translations-common
gstreamer-plugins-ugly gstreamer-plugins-ugly-lang mozilla-nspr

Now some of the gtk3-immodule-* modules updated are downright strange,
but if that's what the dependencies are then see if I care.

Just to add to the fun, once I did the "Software Updates" first and then
ran "zypper up". The second step found things to do that the first one
ignored, and not because the updates had only become available after the
Software Update.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 23/09/2021 14.44, Andrew wrote:
> I have four systems for various purposes, all of them are currently
> running Leap 15.3.  Updates are applied directly (the Software Updates
> process after logging in) or via a "zypper up" using ssh-as-root from
> another machine.
> This works fine for three of the systems, it is the other one which is
> confusing me.
>
> A remote "zypper up" just applied 15 updates, repeating it showed
> "Nothing to do".  The trouble is, the message:
>> The following 101 package updates will NOT be installed:

It is not a problem.
It just tells you.
There is nothing to do.

>
> A remote yast -> Online Update also finds nothing to do.

Obviously, as it is equivalent to "zypper patch", not "zypper up".

>
> Logging in there locally and letting Software Update run, it comes up
> with an additional 20 updates.  Applying these - with all the updates of
> affected packages and libraries - reduces the "will NOT be installed"
> list to just 5 entries, implying that the 20 + dependencies expanded to
> 96 - pretty much normal.
> Any ideas why "zypper up" ignored those 20/96 packages?  This behaviour
> is normal for this one machine.

Because the priorities and repositories you have defined mandate that
result.


For example suppose I add a repository named "things" that includes
WonderfulOffice, which I click on it to install, but it also includes
Thunderbird version 1999, brought from the future, which I do not click
on it.

"zypper up" will update WonderfulOffice, but not Thunderbird, because
you told the system you want TH from oss repo, not from "things".

Zypper will not switch "vendor" on your back.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Andrew]

You are saying that zypper uses a different repository set to "Software
Update"? On this one system?

[Carlos E. R.]

Nope, I did not say that.

I don't know what repos you have defined, so I used a fictional one as
example of what is going on.

Your question is an often asked one, and it simply is a misunderstanding
on your side of what "zypper up" should do.

Zypper up is doing the correct thing.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Andrew]

Well, weeks later (it took that long to accumulate enough updates to do
some decent testing)
If I follow "zypper patch" with "zypper up", the second process can
still find something to do. This is not the case after running
"Software Updates".

I have been experimenting with "zypper patch --with-update" and that
pretty much covers all the bases. There was one update on one machine
which required "Software Updates" but that was probably due to a mistake
in the repository setup, it was not set to automatically refresh.

This still feels strange to me, but at least it works.

Thanks

[Ulick Magee]

On 19/10/2021 11:28, Andrew wrote:
>
> Well, weeks later (it took that long to accumulate enough updates to do
> some decent testing)
> If I follow "zypper patch" with "zypper up", the second process can
> still find something to do. This is not the case after running
> "Software Updates".

Yast Online Update is equivalent to "zypper patch"

If, in Online Update, you click "Package > All Packages > Update if
newer version available", it is equivalent to "zypper update". On my
system this applies updates from Packman which would never get applied
otherwise.

See
https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/reference/html/book-reference/cha-sw-cl.html#sec-zypper

"2.1.4.3 Installing new package versions

If a repository contains only new packages, but does not provide
patches, zypper patch does not show any effect. To update all installed
packages with newer available versions (while maintaining system
integrity), use:

sudo zypper update"


Also see
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/559121-zypper-patch-vs-zypper-up


Basically:
Yast Online Update / zypper patch = Applies patches only. Only the
official update repos provide patches. User, community etc. repos
provide packages only and will not be updated even if a newer version of
that package is in the repo.

Yast Online Update including "All Packages - Update if newer version
available" option / zypper update = Applies patches (as above) but also
will update packages. Packages installed from user or community repos
will be updated if an update is available.

[Carlos E.R.]

Absolutely normal and expected.

I don't see any problem whatsoever. The only problem is you expecting
something different :-P


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 20/10/2021 03.31, Ulick Magee wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 11:28, Andrew wrote:

...

> Also see
> https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/559121-zypper-patch-vs-zypper-up
>
>
> Basically:
> Yast Online Update / zypper patch = Applies patches only. Only the
> official update repos provide patches. User, community etc. repos
> provide packages only and will not be updated even if a newer version of
> that package is in the repo.
>
> Yast Online Update including "All Packages - Update if newer version
> available" option / zypper update = Applies patches (as above) but also
> will update packages. Packages installed from user or community repos
> will be updated if an update is available.

Correct.

"zypper patch" and "YaST online update" only do "patches", and patches
come only from repositories of patch type. On leap 15.2 they are the
"Main Update Repository" and "Update Repository (Non-Oss)".

In a system as installed, without adding any other repository, the
system can be properly installed doing "zypper patch" or "YaST online
update", and zypper update should not do anything.

Once you add extra repositories that do not have a paired update
repository, those have to be updated with "zypper update" or the
procedure you describe (... > Update if newer version available).


And even then, some packages will be considered for update by zypper but
not updated, simply because the owner did different choices and the
system is respecting those choices. It only informs that there are
different choices. It is not a problem at all.


Andrew, there is *nothing* wrong happening with your system updates.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Paul R Schmidtbleicher]

A great thread - I learned a lot about "zypper"
Additional Question: On Tumbleweed: A few times a week I get "Yast
Updates" which I understand as patches from the above discussion. Today
they are up to 160. Question: Suggest how often I should do "zypper dup"
in light of what the "Yast Updates" are telling me.

Paul



--
paulrs

[Carlos E.R.]

On 28/10/2021 22.20, Paul R Schmidtbleicher wrote:

>
> A great thread - I learned a lot about "zypper"

Welcome :-)

> Additional Question: On Tumbleweed: A few times a week I get "Yast
> Updates" which I understand as patches from the above discussion. Today
> they are up to 160. Question: Suggest how often I should do "zypper dup"
> in light of what the "Yast Updates" are telling me.

That's a different problem altogether, a different can of worms.

The issue is that the only proper tool to update a Tumbleweed
installation is "zypper dup" in a terminal as root. Any other tool
consider only as an indicative that you should check if there are
updates, but do them only with "zypper dup".

Many people are not aware of this.

I know there are GUI tools (applets) that nag you about updates, but
just ignore those tools. I would remove them.


A "zypper up", which is similar to what those tools can at most do, can
at times cause breakage of TW.


--
Cheers, Carlos.