Packages, compilation, build scripts, checkinstall... few questions
Niki Kovacs
I'm aware that my use of Slackware is not the same as it is for most users
in this newsgroup. Although I do have one "headless" machine (e. g. an old
PC without screen, mouse or even keyboard) acting mainly as file and
printer server as well as connection handler (three machines sharing one
dialup connection:oD), my main use of Slackware is as desktop, which means
a replacement for Windows XP or Mac OS X.
I did try out many other distros that look more desktop-friendly, if one can
say that. In the last two or three years, I tried out Mandrake, Aurox,
Suse, Ubuntu and lately Debian Sarge. They were all more or less a
disaster, in the sense that either they wouldn't install (the latest
Mandriva 2006 just froze on two of my machines, overwrote my MBR without
asking first, and I had to hard reboot and repair a general mess)... or the
result was less spectacular, but still dissatisfying. Debian and Ubuntu
fall into that category. They installed well, and I was seduced at first...
but then, MPlayer had a jerky playback, DVD::RIP refused to rip (and even
to DVD:oD), and this leaves you, as we say in my native Austria, dumb as
the oxen before the new barn door: what now?
What I have now - on the machine I am writing these lines on - is a "full"
10.2 install (I always feel a bit frustrated during install, when I choose
"full" install in the ncurses interface... "full" implying I'm not an
"expert"...), and then I spend some hours compiling and installing all the
rest I need to make my machine fully desktop-functional: libdvdcss,
libdvdread, libgphoto2, gphoto2, mplayer, kaffeine, k3b, k3b-i18n, and the
list is long....
Why I do this by hand? Well, I did try some of the packages from
linuxpackages.net, as well as those from slacky.it... but more often than
not, the package was buggy or not working at all. I'm not like one of those
Gentoo users, feeling like a pro only because I'm watching compile messages
fly by on the screen for hours and hours... and I'd rather use my time for
something else. Only, I like things to _work_, and this sometimes means
rolling up your sleeves and doing things by yourself.
Lately, I've been doing more Slack installs than before, for friends as well
as for clients. Clients using Windows coming to my home for some repair
work and seeing this other OS running suddenly want to take the plunge and
switch.
Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
considerations.
Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)? On a desktop computer, I
rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer? (Is there
some good "Compile Basics" doc around?)
Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
and so on, you get the idea).
One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
counted...)
Cheers,
Niki Kovacs
Leo (Bing) Whiteway
> Hi,
>
> I'm aware that my use of Slackware is not the same as it is for most users
> in this newsgroup. Although I do have one "headless" machine (e. g. an old
> PC without screen, mouse or even keyboard) acting mainly as file and
> printer server as well as connection handler (three machines sharing one
> dialup connection:oD), my main use of Slackware is as desktop, which means
> a replacement for Windows XP or Mac OS X.
<snip>
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Niki Kovacs
I have 4 computers all running Slackware and I keep trying any distro I can
find. So far; all come up short against Slackware.
If you take on a project like this, I will be interested in trying it out.
--
Leo in Canada:
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
< running Slackware 10.1 Linux >
MikeReynolds
<snip>
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
Slackware has been my main desktop for a little more than a year. I've used
Slack for probably 90% (or more) of the time for about 3 years. I also have
another desktop that is Slack, that has only ever seen Slack.
--
Best Regards,
Mike Reynolds
Enrico Maria Crisostomo
laptop. It's clearly the distro I use for all of my desktops, too. I
installed it to many friends and even my sister and my father are
running slackware on their computer (a small war with my sister at the
beginning... but the windows/slackware switch was painless and my
sister's been happy ever since).
Your project seems interesting and I'll be happy to help. Many times I
recompiled tons of srcs just to optimize my installation.
Olive
Slackware include fewer packages than other but the packages included
work usually without problems. That can be seen as an advantage or an
inconvienent. I have always thought that to manage 14 CDs of binaries
like Debian does is virtually impossible without problems. I have added
a few programs in my slackware but not so many. For the video Slackawre
already include xine (we have to add libdvdcss which cannot be included
because of legal risks in some countries, I know no other distributions
which include it). For burning CD's I prefer the command line: cdrecord,
etc...
>
> Why I do this by hand? Well, I did try some of the packages from
> linuxpackages.net, as well as those from slacky.it... but more often than
> not, the package was buggy or not working at all. I'm not like one of those
> Gentoo users, feeling like a pro only because I'm watching compile messages
> fly by on the screen for hours and hours... and I'd rather use my time for
> something else. Only, I like things to _work_, and this sometimes means
> rolling up your sleeves and doing things by yourself.
>
> Lately, I've been doing more Slack installs than before, for friends as well
> as for clients. Clients using Windows coming to my home for some repair
> work and seeing this other OS running suddenly want to take the plunge and
> switch.
>
> Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
> of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
> considerations.
>
> Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
> mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)? On a desktop computer, I
> rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
> have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
> everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
> I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
> time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer? (Is there
> some good "Compile Basics" doc around?)
This is by design. I do not know if there is a real lost of performance
by compiling for the i486.
>
> Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
> build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
> utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
> and so on, you get the idea).
For the official packages, it is always safer to do custom scripts as
Slackware does than to rely on a automated process.
This is true that it is not difficult to write a script that convert a
standard source tar.gz to a slackware package using checkinstall
(decompress the source, run ./confiure; then make; then checkinstall
with default option). I do not know if such a script would be much more
useful than using checkinstall directly.
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
I use Slack as a desktop.
Olive
Thomas Ronayne
>Hi,
>
>Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
>mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)? On a desktop computer, I
>rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
>have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
>everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
>I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
>time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer? (Is there
>some good "Compile Basics" doc around?)
>
>
I'm of the school that says, "install it and forget it" (I'm not big on
fiddling with kernels, rebuilding stock systems and all that -- if it
works satisfactorily, I leave it alone; it's not that I can't, it's just
that I don't want to). I do, however, remove certain packages and roll
my own -- those would be installing Java development, removing Apache
1.x (and building and installing Apache 2.x), removing the distribution
PHP and building from source (I use Informix and Oracle and I need PHP
to "talk" to those), removing the distribution Mozilla packages and
using the ones from Mozilla.com (as of today, .com, apparently). I add
openLDAP so Adobe Reader won't yammer (I don't bother to run it, just
install it). Anything I add to the system goes in /usr/local; that would
include gphoto2, mplayer (and the Mozilla plug-ins), RealPlayer,
Bluefish and a couple of other things -- all in /usr/local (I do
/usr/local because an upgrade or new installation won't clobber anything
I've added and configured). The single exception is openLDAP which seems
to have to go in /usr rather than /usr/local (and I don't want to fight
with it, so OK). I find that it's the rare package that doesn't
configure, make and make install with any problems -- stuff just seems
to work and I like that.
>Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
>build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
>utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
>and so on, you get the idea).
>
>
Hmm.
>One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
>use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
>counted...)
>
>
I do have to have XP for three applications that I cannot find for Linux
or that won't run under Crossover; Family Tree Maker, Stamps.com and
TurboTax -- other than that, I boot XP once a week or so for the
critical updates. I absolutely despise Windows in any form (was crap,
still is crap, always will be crap) but unfortunately cannot live
without the damned thing for those three -- so, yes, Slackware is my
main desktop environment with rare sorries into the wonderful world of
Microjunk.
>Cheers,
>
>Niki Kovacs
>
>
reclusive monkey
discovered it. I use Dropline, for two reasons;
1. I love Gnome. So sue me. (not only that I use the Gorilla theme,
which some wag once commented "looks like wet clay")
2. Dropline provides *most* of the "extras" I need in Slackware. I am
considering trying out some of the other Slackware Gnome efforts
though.
I mentioned the other day that Slackware was meant to be a server OS,
not a desktop OS and got very dismissive reply which I found very
surprising. Yes, of course you can use Slackware as a desktop, but I
don't think thats what Pat has in mind when is doing his magic.
One thing I would like to ask is whether or not you intend to include
codecs in your pack. It seems to me that for a modern desktop OS, you
need as many media codecs as possible installed. Not all these come
from source, so installing them the "proper" way might be tricky...
Much kudos to you for the attempt... I personally think Slackware is
the best starting point to build anything on!
Keith Keller
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
*stands up*
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
see X- headers for PGP signature information
notbob
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment?
24/7
nb
jjg
> On 2005-11-30, Niki Kovacs <mic...@mouse.com> wrote:
>>
>> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
>> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and
>> be counted...)
>
> *stands up*
>
> --keith
>
me too!
Shane
Have been for 18 months now... but am seriously considering migrating to
kubuntu :)
--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
Marv Soloff
everything except video (too cumbersome on Slack).
Regards,
Marv
Niki Kovacs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> (SNIP)
ANC
> On 2005-11-30, Niki Kovacs <mic...@mouse.com> wrote:
>
>> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
>> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment?
Running 9.1 about two years on first, current, and very expensive wife's
Toshiba laptop. Runs well. No issues. Running 10.1 on an old P4 tower. No
issues.
ANC
Keith Keller
You use your desktop 24/7?!? When do you sleep? :)
notbob
Niki Kovacs
> Have been for 18 months now... but am seriously considering migrating to
> kubuntu :)
Have been there recently (Ubuntu 5.04, Kubuntu 5.04, Ubuntu 5.10 Desktop &
Server).
I bet my collection of 10 Ubuntu CDs plus 14 Debian Sarge CDs you'll be back
on Slack in less than a month.
(Try it, though!)
Niki
Bradley Reed
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:08:20 +0100, Niki Kovacs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm aware that my use of Slackware is not the same as it is for most users
> in this newsgroup. Although I do have one "headless" machine (e. g. an old
> PC without screen, mouse or even keyboard) acting mainly as file and
> printer server as well as connection handler (three machines sharing one
> dialup connection:oD), my main use of Slackware is as desktop, which means
> a replacement for Windows XP or Mac OS X.
>
I would be surprised if the majority of this newsgroups readers
didn't use Slackware as a desktop OS on at least one machine.
> What I have now - on the machine I am writing these lines on - is a "full"
> 10.2 install (I always feel a bit frustrated during install, when I choose
> "full" install in the ncurses interface... "full" implying I'm not an
> "expert"...), and then I spend some hours compiling and installing all the
> rest I need to make my machine fully desktop-functional: libdvdcss,
> libdvdread, libgphoto2, gphoto2, mplayer, kaffeine, k3b, k3b-i18n, and the
> list is long....
Very similar situation here. I currently have 174 self-compiled
add-on Slackware packages installed on my laptop. Most are the
things I use regularly: enlightenment WM, sylpheed-claws for email,
mplayer, gtkpod, Eterm, gnumeric, inkscape, gringotts. Others are
newer or patched versions of existing Slackware packages, many are
games or utilities I don't use frequently, but want to have
installed when I need them: fontforge, kismet, ethereal.
> Why I do this by hand? Well, I did try some of the packages from
> linuxpackages.net, as well as those from slacky.it... but more often than
> not, the package was buggy or not working at all. I'm not like one of those
> Gentoo users, feeling like a pro only because I'm watching compile messages
> fly by on the screen for hours and hours... and I'd rather use my time for
> something else. Only, I like things to _work_, and this sometimes means
> rolling up your sleeves and doing things by yourself.
That has been my experience with others' packages too. Library
version conflicts or built with options other than what I would
choose. I find that less time is spent compiling something myself
and packaging it, than I spent troubleshooting why someone else's
packages wasn't working.
> Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
> of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
> considerations.
>
A collection or repository of up-to-date Slackbuild scripts would be
a welcome addition to the available Slackware resources.
> Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
> mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)?
Most are i486, but some (jdk) are i586, and some
(mozilla-thunderbird, xine) are i686. There are even some i386s
still around (xfractint, procmail).
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
Slackware is my only desktop environment on my desktop computer and one
laptop. I have another laptop that is dual-boot with WinXP, but is
in Slackware mode 99.9 percent of the time.
Haven't even felt like trying another distro for almost 3 years now,
although I did buy the Linux from Scratch book. If I were to try
another distro it would be LFS, but it would end up being so close to
Slackware that the only point in installing it would be the learning
experience.
Brad
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Dan C
<snip>
> Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
> build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
> utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
> and so on, you get the idea).
Interesting, and something I'd help with. I already have a CD with a
collection of the various things I like to add to a default installation,
but it certainly isn't automated. Just a collection of .tgz's, .run's,
and .tar.gz's that I manually install. It would be kind of nice to just
run a script to do it all without further input. One thing to keep in
mind is that the various add-on's need to be continually updated on this
CD, which might make it more work than it's worth... Keep us posted.
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and
> be counted...)
Several desktops, and this laptop, none of which have any other OS on them.
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Franklin
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
My file server is now Slackware 10.2 serving up files via NFS and Samba.
Was SuSE 8.2 for a LONG time. Just changed 3 weeks ago
My Desktop is a multi-boot with Slackware-current (2.4.31) as the main
desktop which is quickly being overtaken by my fresh install of 10.2 with
the 2.6.13 kernel and Freerock Gnome-2.12.1, SuSE 10, and Windows 2000
I spend 95% of my time at home in Slackware unless I'm doing stuff for
work which is heavy MS Office.
I also have a file with all my "added" tgzs, scripts, tarballs that I add
after installing. Plus a file with saved config files in case I forget
what I did to make something work the way I wanted.
I used to like SuSE and just tried Open SuSE 10.0. I also had Debian
Sarge for a while as well as Ubuntu. I guess I've just become so used to
doing things in Slackware that, while there's really nothing "wrong" with
these distros, they just feel cumbersome (except maybe Debian) - I don't
really know how else to put it. Once I got SuSE installed - took a VERY
long time - I just felt overwhelmed with "stuff". I used to like YaST but
now it seems like an added layer of potential confusion.
I like to try distros to see how others implement things - I don't know a
soul that uses Linux besides me. Being self-taught unfortunately leaves
alot of 'holes" in the knowledge base. I never stay with anything other
than slackware though. If I like something I see elsewhere I just try to
make it work the same way in slack.
Mark Post
-snip-
>Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
>mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)?
Yes. They are compiled such that they only use instructions found on an
80486.
>On a desktop computer, I
>rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
>have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
>everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
>I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
>time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer?
This really isn't necessary, in most cases. Recompiling packages to use the
i686 architecture won't buy you much in the way of improved performance, and
will take you a _lot_ of time that you could better expend elsewhere.
Mark Post
Sylvain Robitaille
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment?
Have been for nearly ten years, at home and at work. laptops too.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille s...@alcor.concordia.ca
Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
steelneck
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
I use Slackware on my desktop.
I do it just like you, though i usually chose packages
at install (usually the "menu" option). I see Slackware
as a kind of base to build my system on. Right now i am
fiddling a bit with Slamd64, that maybe will become my
next "desktop distro" of choise :-)
Then i get what i need from the dependency circus Gnome,
because i use some of the gnome-apps that need it to be
there, though my window manager of choise is IceWm.
I also hunt around for working supermount patches and patch
the kernel with them, i like to just be able to put in
a mem-stick, flash-card, CD or whatever, and it is there
at the mountpoint, no mount/umonting hassle.. not to
mention my wife.
--
Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want censorship
by patent law on written works.
Alan_C
> Hi,
I not as many add on pkgs as you. checkinstall for me, for what I add. sometimes linuxpackages.
Can't the line between desktop and server be blurred? I mean, I use 10.2 as desktop but on same I also sometimes fire up Apache (since Slack makes it so easy -- how can it be any easier than that)
start the Apache to use it as a Yum repository server on my LAN -- for a few Centos 4 boxes on lan to get em pumped their updates via Slack powered http Apache.
Oh, then turn off Apache and return to desktop useage.
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
Stands up.
Win 2k, Centos 4, Suse 10, these only get turned on one day a week if that. Slack 10.2 gets used every day of the week (it's been so (for Slack) since 10.1 came out).
in 10 I had a font prob I didn't get resolved -- 10.1 fonts be great.
The 9's up to 10 I used Slack off and on back then (then used Fedora Core 1, Suse, and a hard drive install of Knoppix transitioned to Debian Sid).
We have to go back for upwards of three years back then I ran that Win_ows thing. That thing is not at all engineered like Linux, not even close (thank heavens).
See, check out my header, to see that the agent is gnus. Right now I'm having fun with the gnus that's on the Emacs that came with Slack 10.2 (just the basics of gnus so far)
--
Alan_Cu b c n u
Henrik Carlqvist
> Running Slack 9.0 as primary for over two years now.
I've been running Slackware as my main OS since 1995. Initially mostly on
desktops, later also as any server function (NFS, SMB, DNS, LDAP, mail,
Web and NIS). My only computer at home which isn't running Slackware is my
firewall which is running floppyfw. At work we also have computers running
Solaris and Windows.
> Use it for everything except video (too cumbersome on Slack).
Today I still use Slackware 9.1 and I use it for video. However, compiling
mplayer and transcode with complete functionality means a lot of work. A
work in slow progress is my old video:
http://hem.bredband.net/b429941/
regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc7(at)uthyres.com Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
ro...@variousus.net in...@k-soft.se in...@k-software.biz root@localhost
Shane
:)
Kbuntu 5.10
My only current dislike is its hand holding approach
Ive decided to keep Slack on one partition for testing purposes (as thats
what I liked about slackware, almost bombproof)
But Im liking kubuntu, its a bit behind (like any debian based distro) for
latest shiny thing (Im waiting for kde3.5)
Franz M. Sauerzopf
> Hi,
> ...
> Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
> build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
> utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
> and so on, you get the idea).
>
I think good install scripts like the FRG ones are much better. The "not
so well" working ones are exactly what makes people change distro...
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and
> be counted...)
Ich auch!
Work, and gaming (wine, winex) at home. No video, almost no
audio though.
Have a nice time
Franz
--
Franz M. Sauerzopf
Atominstitut, TU Wien
Niki Kovacs
> Today I still use Slackware 9.1 and I use it for video. However, compiling
> mplayer and transcode with complete functionality means a lot of work.
What I have in mind currently is a complete build and install script for
MPlayer, MEncoder, Transcode and DVD::RIP, as these are the only apps that
are a real nightmare to build on Slackware (I haven't seen them work
correctly on any other distro, though).
Currently busy reading Steve Parker's Bash Tutorial, since the last time I
did some programming was Assembler and Basic back in 1984:oD
Niki Kovacs
Niki Kovacs
> One thing to keep in
> mind is that the various add-on's need to be continually updated on this
> CD, which might make it more work than it's worth...
I don't know if it's that necessary. I thought more of a series of CDs, like
one add-on CD for 10.2, and then another one for 11.0... I don't mind if I
have libdvdcss 1.2.8 or 1.2.9... as long as it works. Plus, a serious
handicap for me is I only have dialup.
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> I spend 95% of my time at home in Slackware unless I'm doing stuff for
> work which is heavy MS Office.
MS Office 2003 runs great with Crossover:o)
Niki Kovacs
> I like to try distros to see how others implement things - I don't know a
> soul that uses Linux besides me. Being self-taught unfortunately leaves
> alot of 'holes" in the knowledge base. I never stay with anything other
> than slackware though. If I like something I see elsewhere I just try to
> make it work the same way in slack.
Welcome to the club, I'm self-taught too (one and a half year spent at
Vienna University learning Pascal and Fortran don't count, since I forgot
everything:oD). I do follow basically the same approach: see what other
distros have to offer (in theory....), then make it work with Slackware.
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> This really isn't necessary, in most cases. Recompiling packages to use
> the i686 architecture won't buy you much in the way of improved
> performance, and will take you a lot of time that you could better expend
> elsewhere.
Actually, I didn't mean to recompile the original Slack packages on my
machine... I meant the new packages (Mplayer, libdvdread, ...).
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> Then i get what i need from the dependency circus Gnome,
> because i use some of the gnome-apps that need it to be
> there, though my window manager of choise is IceWm.
> I also hunt around for working supermount patches and patch
> the kernel with them, i like to just be able to put in
> a mem-stick, flash-card, CD or whatever, and it is there
> at the mountpoint, no mount/umonting hassle.. not to
> mention my wife.
I'm looking for something similar. Usually I write some udev entries for all
my devices, so for example CUPS knows that /dev/laserprinter is my Brother
printer and /dev/inkjetprinter is my HP PSC 1210... or he doesn't take my
USB stick for my camera, so I have /dev/stick and /dev/camera.
Recently a friend gave me a USB stick with some pictures on it... and I had
to manually mount it from the Console... so there's still some work to do
here.
We'll think about this more.
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> Ich auch!
OT: there's an Austrian politician (from the Burgenland) that is a homonym
to you, but I guess you know that.
> Franz M. Sauerzopf
> Atominstitut, TU Wien
Even more OT: I used to be a student at the Atominstitut Wien, back in 1986,
but just to have free tramway tickets (famous sport among Vienna students,
back then)
Giovanni
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
I do (since 1996).
Ciao
Giovanni
--
A computer is like an air conditioner,
it stops working when you open Windows.
Registered Linux user #337974 <http://counter.li.org/>
PJ Beers
<snip>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
Well count me too.
I'm using Slackware 10.2 on my desktop as my main OS (but multibooting
with Win98 (for old games), WinXP, Debian, Ubuntu, Mandriva; wanted to
try some other distro's too) and on my Thinkpad A22m at work. Here's a
list of packages I install to get slack as much to my liking as I can
(i.e., within the limits of my lowish geek-spertise):
gtkpod, guarddog, amarok (from linuxpackages, together with libtunepimp
and libmusicbrainz, although I don't know what they do), OpenOffice
(using someone else's scripts to turn it into a slackpackage), Cisco's
vpn-client, Crossover-office (to use EndNote mainly, and MSOffice for a
few .doc-compatibility issues with OpenOffice), some ACPI-scripts
(although they don't work too well, acpi needs a recompiled kernel (2.6)
to get Intel-Speedstep to work on this machine, and I don't know how
many kernel modules need to be removed for suspend-to-ram to work
flawlessly - as it is I remove none, which makes artsd crash after
suspending ac couple of times, and it gives dhcp problems after being
suspended about a day or so; hibernation doesn't work at all - probably
needs a recompiled kernel too).
I tried using Evolution (with packages from Freerock Gnome) but somehow
I can't get it to connect to the MSExchange server. I would like to be
able to use dbus and hal, but it seems that to reap all the benefits
from that would require recompiling kdebase or something like that, and
that's too much of a hassle.
One might ask, why Slackware, because obviously I enjoy some comforts
(acpi, dbus and hal) that are not easy to configure. Well, I started
with SUSE, which would hard-crash on my usb-stick and I never found out
why, and would misconfigure Xorg. I tried Kubuntu, and the first thing I
opened (konqueror) immediately crashed. I tried Mandriva, particularly
because I wanted to try Evolution and the first thing it did was
complain about dependencies. Probably the real problem was sitting in
the chair, but still it seems telling to me that all these distro's that
have a reputation for ease of use can act so... frustrating. Slackware
feels more trustworthy in those respects. It is harder to repair
auto-misconfigurations than to configure by hand.
I'll probably keep running Slackware on the laptop, slowly but steadily
configuring acpi till it suits me. Nonetheless, I might try suse 10.0 or
kubuntu some time, to see how I like them now.
PJ
Stephen Bloom
I've been a long-time lurker in this group (and will
likely so remain..). I've been a user of a variety
of UNIX systems (UniCOS, SUNOS, Solaris, IRIX) over
the past 20 years or so -- so my first experience with
linux, a downloaded Slack 3.1 sometime in 1997, wasn't too
traumatic. After a detour through SuSE-land, I became
a Slack partisan after version 8, and have remained so
ever since.
I'm running 10.2 on my home machine and my desktop at
work (at NASA/GSFC), and an older version (10.0, I think)
on my Dell laptop. Interestingly, I have used the laptop
for presentations (typically TeX/pdf), and I get frequent
comments on how much better the linux-based laptop performs
in comparison to windows-based laptops. Also, since M$
products are the default for NASA and my company (SAIC),
I have found OO2.0 to be very valuable in dealing with the
myriad of ppt and doc files sent my way (if HQ wants/sends
ppt, one had better have a way to deal with it). Other
solutions for this, used by coworkers at GSFC, either involve
dual-booting (boo), or crossover (hiss), or Macs (okay).
My box (Dell Precision 360) is the sole Slack machine in
the branch, the other 70-80 linux boxes are all RH
Enterprise. After 1.5 years of observing the two systems,
I do believe I'll be sticking with Slack :).
Recently, my dad (who is 86 and lives 450 mi away) got
broadband. I replaced his ancient Compaq WinME box with
a Slack 10.1 box; it runs KDE, firefox and thunderbird
and is quite secure. I can manage it from afar. I did
have to install win4lin with Win98 so that he can play
solitare.
Steve
Joost Kremers
> Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
> build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
> utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
> and so on, you get the idea).
you might be interested in slackbuild central, if you haven't heard of it
yet:
<http://www.tripleg.net.au/news4.php>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
i'm running slackintosh (which i assume does count ;-) on my ibook as my
only OS. it doesn't even have OS X on it anymore.
--
Joost Kremers joostk...@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)
Morten L
> Hi,
>
> I'm aware that my use of Slackware is not the same as it is for most users
> in this newsgroup. Although I do have one "headless" machine (e. g. an old
> PC without screen, mouse or even keyboard) acting mainly as file and
> printer server as well as connection handler (three machines sharing one
> dialup connection:oD), my main use of Slackware is as desktop, which means
> a replacement for Windows XP or Mac OS X.
>
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
>
> Niki Kovacs
Hi,
Me too, both on my laptop and the desktop.
I have used slackware since 9.0 and now I'm at 10.1 half
upgraded to 10.2. Have tried suse, redhat, debian, etc,
but slackware is the one I like.
My desktop is also an applicationserver for a few thin clients
used by my wife and children.
Also I compile a lot of the programmes I use: Lyx, Bluefish, Inkscape,
Skencil, Hugin (panotools), Gnucash, DigitalDj, Grip, streamtuner,
Mplayer, Tvtime, GCD-master, Qalculate, Xbc, Xephem, Scribus, Unison,
Gcombust, gtkcdlabel, etc, etc.
--
Morten L
Henrik Carlqvist
> MPlayer, MEncoder, Transcode and DVD::RIP, as these are the only apps that
> are a real nightmare to build on Slackware (I haven't seen them work
> correctly on any other distro, though).
So your script would do something like:
for package in libavc1394 libdvdcss libdv libdvdread libfame libmpeg3 \
libquicktime lzo libraw1394 mjpegtools mplayer_codecs \
a52dec divx4linux dvdbackup fame dvgrab gd gscanbus \
MPlayer transcode; do
wget package
tar -xzvf package
cd package-dir
./configure
make
checkinstall
cd ..
done
Of course the above is only pseudocode and I don't think all possible
packages are listed.
It would be nice to have such a script. That script would be rather easy
to maintain when there is a need to upgrade or add a new package.
Thomas Overgaard
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up
> and be counted...)
>
I'm using Slackware as desktop environment both on my laptop and desktop
computer. The desktop serves the laptop as server too because harddisks
are somewhat cheaper for the desktop.
The laptop dual boots with WinXP, but I only use WinXP for a single
program (a postprosessor) and I wouldn't dare to use WinXP at the
Internet.
Like you I spend hours compiling lot of programs after a new install,
but so far I've only used my old Changelog where I write down all about
what I install, how I did it and why.
Started as Redhat user, mostly because I had a Redhat 5.1 CD from a
magazine, and I liked Redhat 5.1 and 5.2. Didn't like what they did to
Redhat 6.1 and 6.2, and I only used Redhat 7.1 for downloading
Slackware 8.0 and burning the CD. Been a Slackware user ever since.
BTW. Back then Redhat versions X.0 was seen as very unsafe release
candidates, and only hardcore Redhat fans used them.
--
Thomas O.
This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.
Thomas Overgaard
> since the last time I did some programming was Assembler and Basic
> back in 1984:oD
>
Was it a Commodore 64 or a Spectrum 48? I was a happy Commodore 64 user
until some of the ram went down south.
Handover Phist
> Niki Kovacs wrote:
>
>> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here
>> actually use Slackware as their main desktop environment?
>
> Have been for nearly ten years, at home and at work. laptops too.
Only about three years for me, Mandrake and RedHat before that.
Switching was one hell of a relief.
--
Drink Canada Dry! You might not succeed, but it *is* fun trying.
Melissa Danforth
: Lately, I've been doing more Slack installs than before, for friends as well
: as for clients. Clients using Windows coming to my home for some repair
: work and seeing this other OS running suddenly want to take the plunge and
: switch.
: Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
: of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
: considerations.
: Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
: mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)? On a desktop computer, I
: rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
: have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
: everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
: I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
: time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer? (Is there
: some good "Compile Basics" doc around?)
: Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
: build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
: utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
: and so on, you get the idea).
If your purpose is to save time on the other machines that you might be
installing Slackware on, then my favorite option is to roll my own packages.
Look at the Slackbuild scripts for the included packages for inspiration.
It will answer the questions you have about i486 compilation optimization
(hint, there's GCC compiler flags for architecture like mcpu and march).
I prefer the packaging option because then you compile once (usually most
time intensive) and can install that package for many systems (handy for a CD
repository of add-on programs). Once you get the build script perfected, it
is also easy enough to upgrade to a newer version of either Slackware or the
program in question by altering a few parameters in the build script then
executing the build script which compiles the program and packages it into
a nice Slackware package. FYI, I've never even had to use checkinstall with
this approach, instead I use makepkg in temporary directories, which works
for any program which honors a redirect to a different root directory on
make install.
Once you have a repository of Slackware compatable packages, the only script
you really would need on the CD is something to install them. You could go
fancy with a menu chooser like Slackware offers in certain setup options or
you could just have a simple script that did installpkg on every package on
the CD.
: One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
: use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
: counted...)
I've been using Slackware at home and on campus as my main desktop for many
years now. My needs are rather simple though; Mozilla, terminal windows
(many of those), Gnumeric, xmms, xpdf and xdvi are the most commonly used
graphical apps for me. Plenty of other command line apps used in the terminal
windows too. Occasionally I'll use other graphical apps like Gimp or gnuplot,
but those aren't day-to-day apps. Most of the default Slackware packages work
for my needs but I do roll my own packages for a few apps and also for things
like new OpenSSH versions that PV hasn't made official packages for yet. I've
got three Slackware boxes at home (workstation, laptop, webserver) and two on
campus, so the compile once, install many method is preferable to compiling
on each machine, particularly with the webserver as that's a PII 450.
notbob
> Started as Redhat user, mostly because I had a Redhat 5.1 CD from a
> magazine, and I liked Redhat 5.1 and 5.2. Didn't like what they did to
> Redhat 6.1 and 6.2, and I only used Redhat 7.1 for downloading
> Slackware 8.0 and burning the CD. Been a Slackware user ever since.
I suspect you'd have no trouble at all finding a few thousand Slack
users who could have written the paragraph verbatim.
nb
Dan C
I see your point, but with the length of time between Slack releases, some
apps really should be updated (between Slack version updates), for
security reasons if nothing else. For example, the recent release of the
new Firefox and Thunderbird. If I was to do a new install of 10.2 next
week, I'd want those versions on hand (on the CD). I guess this issue
might not be so important for some, but for me it would be a concern.
Keep tossin' the ideas around...
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Dan C
<snip a bunch of non-wrapped, impossible to read, text>
Jesus, not *another* "Al C". That's 3 now.
> Stands up.
Fix your newsreader to wrap properly, before you do that again.
Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Alan_C wrote the following -._
> See, check out my header, to see that the agent is gnus. Right now I'm having fun with the gnus that's on the Emacs that came with Slack 10.2 (just the basics of gnus so far)
I have one bit of advice for you: ^U-72 ^X-f.
- --
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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Sylvain Robitaille
> ... my dad ... replaced his ancient Compaq WinME box with
> a Slack 10.1 box; it runs KDE, firefox and thunderbird
> and is quite secure. I can manage it from afar. I did
> have to install win4lin with Win98 so that he can play
> solitare.
What about "kpat"??? (part of the kdegames package)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille s...@alcor.concordia.ca
Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Henrik Carlqvist wrote the following -._
> wget package
That line will require massive work. More than most realize.
> tar -xzvf package
> cd package-dir
That last line can be done like this for /most/ packages:
tar zxfl $1 && cd $(echo $1 | sed 's/.tar.gz//') && ./configure && sudo make install
That is a function I have on my box for installing /most/ packages.
It doesn't always work because some developers don't know how to
standardize their archive with their compile directory.
- --
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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Stephen Bloom
> Stephen Bloom wrote:
>> ... my dad ... replaced his ancient Compaq WinME box with
>> a Slack 10.1 box; it runs KDE, firefox and thunderbird
>> and is quite secure. I can manage it from afar. I did
>> have to install win4lin with Win98 so that he can play
>> solitare.
> What about "kpat"??? (part of the kdegames package)
It was a box that I had been using as a back-up; I had
put on win4lin to use canon photo-stitch software (very handy
for making panoramas with canon digital photos). I wasn't
aware of kpat, but it doesn't exactly match the "look and
feel of the M$ version. Since win4lin was already there,
and my dad is most familiar with M$ solitaire, I figured
to just go with the flow.
I was much more concerned that I could get him a machine
that was basically (vastly) more secure -- and one that
I could administer remotely, as well as one that I could
talk him through some problems over the phone. I just
could not remember all the %#$& menu sequences for troubleshooting
windows problems sight unseen.
It'll be a Slack-current box after I visit him over the
Christmas holidays.
Steve
Douglas Mayne
> Hi,
>
<snip>
>
> Lately, I've been doing more Slack installs than before, for friends as
> well as for clients. Clients using Windows coming to my home for some
> repair work and seeing this other OS running suddenly want to take the
> plunge and switch.
>
<snip>
>
Count me. I use it as a desktop with XFCE and gware.org's gnome.
I read through this thread and I have a suggestion which might be helpful
if you are having trouble completely cutting the Windows cord. I have been
using VMWare for a couple of months, and the latest version (Workstation
5.5) works great. It works great on Slackware, although it is not
"officially supported." I use VMWare to run NT4 (for Lotus Notes.)
Besides being quicker than dual booting, the other big advantage of this
environment is the protection layer that Slackware provides; my
NT/2k virtual machines are behind an IPTables/NAT firewall.
Version 5.5 has significant improvements in suspend/resume of
virtual machines. This makes switching between OSs even faster.
Restoring from suspend is as fast as pressing the "on" button on a _real_
laptop which has been "suspended."
The other thing VMWare does is show the OSs running side-by-side.
Cross platform applications like mozilla and open office can be compared
directly. The marginal "benefits" offered by the dominant platform are
readily apparent in this environment.
--
Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
Chick Tower
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
I run Slackware as my primary desktop OS, Niki. I don't even have a
server.
--
Chick Tower
================================================
For e-mail: aols . sent . towerboy AT xoxy . net
Alan_C
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:30:18 -0800, Alan_C wrote:
>
> <snip a bunch of non-wrapped, impossible to read, text>
>
> Jesus, not *another* "Al C". That's 3 now.
No, not. It's Alan_C signed with Alan_Cu b c n u
> > Stands up.
>
> Fix your newsreader to wrap properly, before you do that again.
Tested
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.test/browse_frm/thread/
c68f5d88aa54d4a4/b21c3e66a0ebbe48#b21c3e66a0ebbe48
Fixed.
M-q (Alt-q) at least does a paragraph. I'll select all or do each
paragraph until I learn more.
Sorry. Didn't know it problem for however many news readers.
--
Alan_C b c n u
Alan_C
> _.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Alan_C wrote the following -._ > See,
> I have one bit of advice for you: ^U-72 ^X-f.
What does that mean? I searched/googled also in the gnu.emacs.gnus
but found nothing.
So far, I do: Alt-q (M-q) each paragraph which makes em 71 to 72 char
line length.
--
Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Alan_C wrote the following -._
> Faux_Pseudo <Faux....@gmail.com> writes:
>> _.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Alan_C wrote the following -._ > See,
>> having fun with the gnus that's on the Emacs that came with Slack
>
>> I have one bit of advice for you: ^U-72 ^X-f.
>
> What does that mean? I searched/googled also in the gnu.emacs.gnus
> but found nothing.
^U = C-U and ^X = C-x
That means that if you check the post I was replying to you will
notice that you had excessively long lines. They were not rapped at
71 chars. So you either forgot to M-q or it isn't working.
- --
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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Niki Kovacs
> So your script would do something like:
>
> for package in libavc1394 libdvdcss libdv libdvdread libfame libmpeg3 \
> libquicktime lzo libraw1394 mjpegtools mplayer_codecs \
> a52dec divx4linux dvdbackup fame dvgrab gd gscanbus \
> MPlayer transcode; do
> wget package
> tar -xzvf package
> cd package-dir
> ./configure
> make
> checkinstall
> cd ..
> done
>
> Of course the above is only pseudocode and I don't think all possible
> packages are listed.
>
> It would be nice to have such a script. That script would be rather easy
> to maintain when there is a need to upgrade or add a new package.
Yes, that's exactly what I thought about... only I won't use wget, for the
only reason that I'm on dialup here. Source was all painfully downloaded
once, now I want to make a CD of it.
BTW, did you manage to get transcode/dvd::rip to work? 1) What packages are
needed? 1a) Why? (This may seem stupid, but there are some packages where I
don't have a clue as to why I need them... things like libraw1394 or the
likes...) 2) Compile options? 3) In what order?
But then, I can make a more flexible script, that works either with wget or
locally from my CD...
Cheers,
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> Was it a Commodore 64 or a Spectrum 48? I was a happy Commodore 64 user
> until some of the ram went down south.
A Commodore VC-20! But before that, I had a thing that I don't know how to
call... basically, it was an 8080 processor on a circuit, with a hex
keyboard and a series of LEDs, and the thing could be programmed in
Assembler through direct hex code. At the time, my father was a developer
at Siemens Austria and brought the thing home to my greatest joy (I was ten
years old). He also brought two books along with it, one about binary
algebra, and the other one about logical circuits... great introduction to
computers, huh?!
Niki
Niki Kovacs
> I read through this thread and I have a suggestion which might be helpful
> if you are having trouble completely cutting the Windows cord.
Noooo. I'm 100% GNU/Linux since 2001, with a stint on Mac OS X besides. I
truly despise Windows and haven't been using it since.
Niki
Henrik Carlqvist
>> wget package
>
> That line will require massive work. More than most realize.
As I said it is only pseudocode. I do realize that it needs some more
work. Maybe something like this:
for package in \
http://www.server1.net/path/application1-1.2.3.tgz \
ftp://ftp.server2.com/another/path/application2.tar.bz2 \
...
do
wget $package
tar -xzvf `basename $package`
...
However, there is still even more work left. Packages ending in gz should
be unpacked with -xzvf and packages ending with bz2 should be unpacked
with -xjvf.
>> tar -xzvf package
>> cd package-dir
>
> That last line can be done like this for /most/ packages: tar zxfl $1 &&
> cd $(echo $1 | sed 's/.tar.gz//') && ./configure && sudo make install
>
> That is a function I have on my box for installing /most/ packages. It
> doesn't always work because some developers don't know how to
> standardize their archive with their compile directory.
Yes, it won't be an easy task writing such a script.
Henrik Carlqvist
>> So your script would do something like:
>>
>> for package in libavc1394 libdvdcss libdv libdvdread libfame libmpeg3 \
>> libquicktime lzo libraw1394 mjpegtools mplayer_codecs \
>> a52dec divx4linux dvdbackup fame dvgrab gd gscanbus \
>> MPlayer transcode; do
>> wget package
>> tar -xzvf package
>> cd package-dir
>> ./configure
>> make
>> checkinstall
>> cd ..
>> done
>>
>> Of course the above is only pseudocode and I don't think all possible
>> packages are listed.
> Yes, that's exactly what I thought about... only I won't use wget, for
> the only reason that I'm on dialup here. Source was all painfully
> downloaded once, now I want to make a CD of it.
It would be nice to automate the finding and downloading of dependecies
also.
> BTW, did you manage to get transcode/dvd::rip to work?
I did get a rather full-featured transcode and it does work fine. However,
I haven't tried to get dvd::rip to work. My guess is that once you get one
of those applications (mplayer or transcode) you already have most of the
dependencies needed for other such applications installed.
> 1) What packages are needed?
It was more than 2 years ago I did this transcode and mplayer compilation.
Unfortunately I have now forgotten which packages was needed and where I
got them. One day when I upgrade from Slackware 9.1 I will have to go
through all this work again. Then it would be nice if I or someone else
would have scripted that work.
> 1a) Why? (This may seem stupid, but there are some packages where
> I don't have a clue as to why I need them... things like libraw1394 or the
> likes...)
Both mplayer and transcode really doesn't need all those packages.
However, more packages adds more capabilities to those applications. As I
said I don't remember which packages are really needed so my list was
probably not complete and it might also have contained some package which
wasn't needed.
To read avi files from a DV-cam I used dvgrab. I could also use gscanbus
to control the camera. Maybe one of those applications needed libraw1394,
maybe libraw1394 was needed by transcode to convert the avi files. I don't
remember for sure.
> 2) Compile options?
At some times I have tried to manually optimize the compile options for my
environment. Some of those times have ended up with non working
applications or shaky libraries. Therefore I now prefer to always use the
default compile options that is given by the configure script.
> 3) In what order?
The order is important as some dependencies depend on other packages. Once
you get a working script it will have a working order. Transcode should
probably be the last application and mplayer the application before
transcode.
> But then, I can make a more flexible script, that works either with wget
> or locally from my CD...
Maybe something like:
if [ ! -f `basename $package` ]; then
wget $package
fi
Glyn Millington
> Only about three years for me, Mandrake and RedHat before that.
> Switching was one hell of a relief.
Slackware since spring 2003, before that four or five years I think with
Debian. My wife uses it too. When we get the brand new super-dooper
machine for the family (ie for everyone but me, I suspect!!) after
Christmas, that will be Slackware too.
Though at that point I may switch this machine to FreeBSD permanently :-)
atb
Glyn
--
RTFM http://www.tldp.org/index.html
GAFC http://slackbook.org/ The Official Source :-)
STFW http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.os.linux.slackware
JFGI http://jfgi.us/
PJ Beers
[snip]
> Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
> of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
> considerations.
[snip]
I have a question; what are the actual chances that any resulting
SlackBuilds trickle down to the official Slackware release?
PJ
Marv Soloff
the electronic magazines.
Regards,
Marv
Niki Kovacs wrote:
> Thomas Overgaard wrote:
>
(SNIP)
Paul Kinsler
> I see your point, but with the length of time between Slack releases, some
> apps really should be updated (between Slack version updates), for
> security reasons if nothing else.
... but they are! Keep an eye on (e.g.)
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt
and you'll see when updates are released.
--
#Paul
Giovanni
You better look at:
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/ChangeLog.txt
Ciao
Giovanni
--
A computer is like an air conditioner,
it stops working when you open Windows.
Registered Linux user #337974 <http://counter.li.org/>
Eric Hameleers
> On 12/02/05 12:56, Paul Kinsler wrote:
>
>> Dan C <youmust...@invalid.lan> wrote:
>>
>>> I see your point, but with the length of time between Slack releases,
>>> some
>>> apps really should be updated (between Slack version updates), for
>>> security reasons if nothing else.
>>
>>
>>
>> ... but they are! Keep an eye on (e.g.)
>> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt
>>
>> and you'll see when updates are released.
>>
>>
>
> You better look at:
> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/ChangeLog.txt
>
> Ciao
> Giovanni
Some distinction must be made here:
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt or
preferable http://www.slackware.org/changelog/stable.php?cpu=i386 will
show information about the patches (mostly security updates) to
Slackware-10.2.
The link
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/ChangeLog.txt
or rather http://www.slackware.org/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386 will
just tell you about new developments. There is a difference between
the two.
Eric
psantoro
> <snip>
>
> Now I'm seriously thinking about putting together an add-on CD with a series
> of scripts to automate all this. And before doing this, a few more general
> considerations.
>
I've been using slackware on and off since late 1995. It's been my
exclusive desktop/laptop distribution for about 5 years now. I started
a similar project about 4 years ago. It worked, but more recently I've
modified Pat's tagfiles and install scripts to use my own package set Z.
I then burned my modified slackware distribution to cdrom. It
installs just like official slackware - except with recently updated
packages I want pre-selected, light-weight desktop environment (icewm
and rox filer) ready to go, and basic hardening done. One of my Z
packages installs *.new files that are updates to some of Pat's scripts.
The only manual customization required after installation is to update
the kernel/alsa packages and diff/edit some *.new files with the originals.
I'm now in the process of:
1) updating my iptables scripts, which work well for dialup, to support
other configurations
2) updating some of my scripts to be RoxFiler-friendly to simplify
backup, sound file conversion, burning cdroms, etc. for the
point-and-click crowd
> Compiling vs. packages... AFAIK, Slackware packages are "i486"... does that
> mean that they would run on a 486 (in theory)? On a desktop computer, I
> rarely do installs on less than a Pentium III 500 with 128 MB of RAM (I do
> have an old Pentium II 266 running with a very light XFCE, Sylpheed and
> everything, but that's just for experimental purposes:oD). Anyway... how do
> I go about to optimize packages for recent computers, while at the same
> time being sure that they will run on _every_ recent computer? (Is there
> some good "Compile Basics" doc around?)
>
XFCE is nice. It used to use it, but switched to IceWM and RoxFiler.
It's been my experience that Windows users have a little easier time
migrating to IceWM and RoxFiler and it's light-weight on hardware
requirements, too.
> Another possibility would be to write a script or a series of scripts that
> build all the packages, but simplified and based on the nifty checkinstall
> utility (checkinstall --default --pkgname=$PROGRAM --pkgversion=$VERSION
> and so on, you get the idea).
I have such a script (about 6000 lines of code). Although I still use
it to build some packages, I'm in the process of changing it over to a
library of functions that can be used via the standard SlackBuild
scripts. Most of the SlackBuild scripts follow the same pattern (lots
of code duplication) and can be simplified by using a library of functions.
As it turns out, the new build process I'm working on is similar to that
used by the gentoo folks (multiple build steps that can be over-written
as needed). Unfortunately, I didn't look at the gentoo build process
before doing my design. That could have saved me some time. A few
slackware-friendly build projects that I'm aware of are: bpkg, emerde,
and, portpkg.
Peter
Giovanni
Thank you, I wasn't aware of the distinction. :-(
Matt Payton
> Sylvain Robitaille <s...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>> Stephen Bloom wrote:
>
>
>>> ... my dad ... replaced his ancient Compaq WinME box with a Slack
>>> 10.1 box; it runs KDE, firefox and thunderbird and is quite
>>> secure. I can manage it from afar. I did have to install
>>> win4lin with Win98 so that he can play solitare.
>
>
>> What about "kpat"??? (part of the kdegames package)
>
>
> It was a box that I had been using as a back-up; I had put on win4lin
> to use canon photo-stitch software (very handy for making panoramas
> with canon digital photos). I wasn't aware of kpat, but it doesn't
> exactly match the "look and feel of the M$ version. Since win4lin
> was already there, and my dad is most familiar with M$ solitaire, I
> figured to just go with the flow.
>
Maybe an alternative...
I'm not a big WINE fan ( except for the liquid variety ) but it will
almost certainly run MS Solitaire flawlessly, and with less overhead
than Win4Lin. Don't know about canon photo-stitch and WINE, but if
you're the one using it and not your Dad, then WINE/Solitaire may be a
good fit.
I've used both Win4Lin and VMWare, and I'd say they do exactly what they
say they will...Very nice in some situations. But in my experience,
for simple things like Solitaire, WINE works well. More complex
software is hit + miss, especially when you're setting it up for someone
else.
--
- Matt -
Paul Kinsler
> Some distinction must be made here:
> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt or
> preferable http://www.slackware.org/changelog/stable.php?cpu=i386 will
> show information about the patches (mostly security updates) to
> Slackware-10.2.
I prefer "slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt" to "changelog/stable.php"
because I won't upgrade to the next stable (be it 10.3 or 11.0)
when it arrives: I generally do a new-install "upgrade" every
second (or third) stable release.
--
#Paul
Franz M. Sauerzopf
> Franz M. Sauerzopf wrote:
>
>> Ich auch!
>
> OT: there's an Austrian politician (from the Burgenland) that is a homonym
> to you, but I guess you know that.
>
Yup, let me change to (Austrian) German:
Das war(ist) ein großer Schwarzer, und ich bin ein kleiner Roter....
>> Franz M. Sauerzopf
>> Atominstitut, TU Wien
>
> Even more OT: I used to be a student at the Atominstitut Wien, back in 1986,
> but just to have free tramway tickets (famous sport among Vienna students,
> back then)
This is how I came here originally (in 77) and eventually got stuck ...
cya
Franz
--
Franz M. Sauerzopf
Atominstitut, TU Wien
Niki Kovacs
> Yup, let me change to (Austrian) German:
> Das war(ist) ein großer Schwarzer, und ich bin ein kleiner Roter....
Und ich ein großer Roter (1m90) :oD
Angenehm,
Niki
Stephen Bloom
> Maybe an alternative...
> I'm not a big WINE fan ( except for the liquid variety ) but it will
> almost certainly run MS Solitaire flawlessly, and with less overhead
> than Win4Lin. Don't know about canon photo-stitch and WINE, but if
> you're the one using it and not your Dad, then WINE/Solitaire may be a
> good fit.
> I've used both Win4Lin and VMWare, and I'd say they do exactly what they
> say they will...Very nice in some situations. But in my experience,
> for simple things like Solitaire, WINE works well. More complex
> software is hit + miss, especially when you're setting it up for someone
> else.
> - Matt -
You're probably right about solitaire working with WINE, but I did
find that canon's Photostitch and WINE did not work together. I
donated my old canon S300 along with the PC, so it made sense to me
to keep win4lin on that box (and my laptop).
Steve
Widgeteye
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Niki Kovacs
I have been using Slack for about 10 years, my wife has been using it for
the last 3 years. I use it both at home and at work.
--
LINUX is simple. It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity.
Widgeteye
> Running Slack 9.0 as primary for over two years now. Use it for
> everything except video (too cumbersome on Slack).
>
> Regards,
What do you mean video is too cumbersome??????
What kind of video?
Widgeteye
> Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
>
>> Today I still use Slackware 9.1 and I use it for video. However, compiling
>> mplayer and transcode with complete functionality means a lot of work.
>
> What I have in mind currently is a complete build and install script for
> MPlayer, MEncoder, Transcode and DVD::RIP, as these are the only apps that
> are a real nightmare to build on Slackware (I haven't seen them work
> correctly on any other distro, though).
Mplayer and Mencoder a nightmare to build? Hell it takes 10 minutes tops?!?!
Well unless you're on a real low end computer then I guess it could take a
long time. :)
Widgeteye
> Niki Kovacs <mic...@mouse.com> writes:
>> Hi,
>
> I not as many add on pkgs as you. checkinstall for me, for what I add. sometimes linuxpackages.
>
> Can't the line between desktop and server be blurred? I mean, I use 10.2 as desktop but on same I also sometimes fire up Apache (since Slack makes it so easy -- how can it be any easier than that)
>
> start the Apache to use it as a Yum repository server on my LAN -- for a few Centos 4 boxes on lan to get em pumped their updates via Slack powered http Apache.
>
> Oh, then turn off Apache and return to desktop useage.
Please format your lines so they don't run off the side of the news reader.
Thanks
Dan C
>> I see your point, but with the length of time between Slack releases, some
>> apps really should be updated (between Slack version updates), for
>> security reasons if nothing else.
> ... but they are! Keep an eye on (e.g.)
> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.2/ChangeLog.txt
> and you'll see when updates are released.
Sigh. I know that.
I was referring to the need (in my opinion) to update applications *on the
CD* that we have been discussing in this thread.
Do you see the difference?
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
Thomas Overgaard
> A Commodore VC-20!
But you are living in france. AFAIK the VC-20 was only sold in german
speaking countries because its original name VIC-20 was inappropriate
here.
> But before that, I had a thing that I don't know how to call...
> basically, it was an 8080 processor on a circuit, with a hex keyboard
> and a series of LEDs, and the thing could be programmed in Assembler
> through direct hex code.
I recall some like this but as a "do it yourself" project from a
magazine about electronics back then.
I started with a ZX-81 which had a Z80 processor and 1KB internal ram,
but still I could make some small basic programs.
Yes it had One KiloByte ram.
--
Thomas O.
This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.
Thomas Overgaard
>> I did have to install win4lin with Win98 so that he can play
>> solitare.
>
> What about "kpat"??? (part of the kdegames package)
>
Or search this group at group google for PySol and how to install it.
Pysol comes with something like 200 different solitaire card games.
ray
>
> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
> counted...)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Niki Kovacs
at work I was trying but we're still stuck with Winblows. My boss
considers NT the followon to VMS and he worked for DEC, so I'm screwed
there.
at home... mostly slack. Some Windows. Wife does MS SQL support so we
have a 2000 Server box and SQL. I have a test 2000 Server box and a
couple of desktops that are dual boot Windows/Slack. Other than that I
consider Windows to be a legacy gaming platform.
webbox: slack
ftpbox: slack
filebox: slack
linuxoc: slack (ntp and will do dns and dhcp one day when I feel like it...)
remxbox: slack (and will be the wife's intro to databases on linux box.)
the only XP we have is the laptop - and one day I'll set it up for dual
boot... the wife paid for it and used to say "no" and now it's "sure"
and I just don't have the time...
My killer app that's still windows: Excel. It just works for me.
But for browsing, email, etc... it's all Slack.
Oh, and my backup routine is still windows based. It's the batch file
from hell... that backs up linux boxes (files, but not permissions)
easily without any work. (mostly concerned with /home but it's a script
I wrote for work that I use...)
Ray
Marv Soloff
Nothing in the Linux/Unix environment matches these two programs in
simplicity and ease of operation.
Regards,
Marv
richard
> Thomas Overgaard wrote:
>
>
>>until some of the ram went down south.
>
>
> A Commodore VC-20! But before that, I had a thing that I don't know how to
> call... basically, it was an 8080 processor on a circuit, with a hex
> keyboard and a series of LEDs, and the thing could be programmed in
> at Siemens Austria and brought the thing home to my greatest joy (I was ten
> years old). He also brought two books along with it, one about binary
> algebra, and the other one about logical circuits... great introduction to
> computers, huh?!
Sounds like a developer prototyping board, 8080 is Intel 8bit CPU.
"1974 April * Intel releases its 2-MHz 8080 chip, an 8-bit
microprocessor. It can access 64KB of memory. It uses 6000 transistors,
base on 6-micron technology. Speed is 0.64 MIPS"
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:p-rAFLTQMYMJ:www.microprocessor.sscc.ru/comphist/comp1971.htm+intel+processor+timeline&hl=en
I used one in Uni but by then they had replaced the origional CPU with a
software emulated one, and we developed on a dual 68000 unix box. This
was for Motorola 680X type processor. They still had Hex keypads and 7
segement LEDs.
--- --- ---
| | | | |
| | | | |
--- --- --- --- --- ---
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
--- --- --- --- ---
I got my VIC-20 first though.
Richard :)
Henrik Carlqvist
>> What I have in mind currently is a complete build and install script for
>> MPlayer, MEncoder, Transcode and DVD::RIP, as these are the only apps that
>> are a real nightmare to build on Slackware (I haven't seen them work
>> correctly on any other distro, though).
> Mplayer and Mencoder a nightmare to build? Hell it takes 10 minutes
> tops?!?!
>
> Well unless you're on a real low end computer then I guess it could take
> a long time. :)
The problem is not the compile time. The problem is to download and
install all the wanted libraries with their dependencies.
It is possible to compile and install a minimalistic mplayer and transcode
without all those libraries. However, for full functionality you want some
stuff like libavifile, ffmpeg and so on.
Niki Kovacs
> Niki Kovacs wrote:
>
>> A Commodore VC-20!
>
> But you are living in france. AFAIK the VC-20 was only sold in german
> speaking countries because its original name VIC-20 was inappropriate
> here.
I live in France since 1991. But I'm Austrian, and I bought my first VC-20
in Vienna. Guess that was around 1983 or 1984, not sure.
>
>> But before that, I had a thing that I don't know how to call...
>> basically, it was an 8080 processor on a circuit, with a hex keyboard
>> and a series of LEDs, and the thing could be programmed in Assembler
>> through direct hex code.
>
> I recall some like this but as a "do it yourself" project from a
> magazine about electronics back then.
>
> I started with a ZX-81 which had a Z80 processor and 1KB internal ram,
> but still I could make some small basic programs.
Yeah, I did work on a friend's ZX-81 also. Touchpad keyboard that tended to
became a hammerpad very fast. Crude black and white graphics on a TV
monitor.
>
> Yes it had One KiloByte ram.
Whereas my VC had 3.5 kB, beefed up to an incredible 11 kB... PLUS a bunch
of games that I had burned on a series of EPROMs!
Niki
Niki Kovacs
>> Mplayer and Mencoder a nightmare to build? Hell it takes 10 minutes
>> tops?!?!
>>
>> Well unless you're on a real low end computer then I guess it could take
>> a long time. :)
>
> The problem is not the compile time. The problem is to download and
> install all the wanted libraries with their dependencies.
>
> It is possible to compile and install a minimalistic mplayer and transcode
> without all those libraries. However, for full functionality you want some
> stuff like libavifile, ffmpeg and so on.
That's exactly what I wanted to state, but Henrik was faster.
Niki
Thomas Overgaard
> Yeah, I did work on a friend's ZX-81 also. Touchpad keyboard that
> tended to became a hammerpad very fast.
True, the worst thing about the ZX81 was that touchpad keyboard because
there was no response at all(IIRC). So you had to press a key, look up
at the TV to see if it was right, then look down to find the next key
press it and....
Mark South
> Niki Kovacs wrote:
>>
>> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
>> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
>> counted...)
>
> at work I was trying but we're still stuck with Winblows. My boss
> considers NT the followon to VMS and he worked for DEC, so I'm screwed
> there.
Tell your boss that there are people who are curious to know what century
he thinks he's living in :-)
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo znexfb...@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
Joost Kremers
> True, the worst thing about the ZX81 was that touchpad keyboard because
> there was no response at all(IIRC). So you had to press a key, look up
> at the TV to see if it was right, then look down to find the next key
> press it and....
and of course, you couldn't touch type on those keyboards either...
--
Joost Kremers joostk...@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)
Matto Fransen
On 2005-12-03, Joost Kremers <joostk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thomas Overgaard wrote:
>> True, the worst thing about the ZX81 was that touchpad keyboard because
>> there was no response at all(IIRC). So you had to press a key, look up
>> at the TV to see if it was right, then look down to find the next key
>> press it and....
>
> and of course, you couldn't touch type on those keyboards either...
>
And after typing in a couple of pages of assembler code, the
16k-memory-package moved a little in its connectorand you had
to reboot the machine ...
Great fun, though ...
--
Matto Fransen
Billy Watt
> Niki Kovacs wrote:
>
>
>>Yeah, I did work on a friend's ZX-81 also. Touchpad keyboard that
>>tended to became a hammerpad very fast.
>
>
> True, the worst thing about the ZX81 was that touchpad keyboard because
> there was no response at all(IIRC). So you had to press a key, look up
> at the TV to see if it was right, then look down to find the next key
> press it and....
Nah, the worst thing about a ZX81 was your massive 16K ram pack wobbling
after spending hours typing in a programme listing from a magazine...
I was never happier than when the Speccy came out and the 81 went to the
loft along with the 80.
--
Billy
Loki Harfagr
> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:12:49 +0000, ray wrote:
>
>> Niki Kovacs wrote:
>>>
>>> One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
>>> use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
>>> counted...)
>>
>> at work I was trying but we're still stuck with Winblows. My boss
>> considers NT the followon to VMS and he worked for DEC, so I'm screwed
>> there.
>
> Tell your boss that there are people who are curious to know what century
> he thinks he's living in :-)
More, if your boss really thinks that NT is the follower of VMS
he was probably not much in DEC anytime, or is it he was this person
refered in the shutdown message ? "host shut, pls see your rep..." :D)
Thomas Overgaard
> and of course, you couldn't touch type on those keyboards either...
>
No it surely wasn't a touch type keyboard.
The keyboard was something like 15*7 cm and had 40 keys and each key had
up to 5 different actions.
Mark South
VMS and NT shared a chief architect, IIRR. A chief architect and a
century, the 20th. That ain't never comin' back. If it ever does, we may
find a use for VMS or NT. And only if.
Mark Post
>Mark Post wrote:
>> This really isn't necessary, in most cases. Recompiling packages to use
>> the i686 architecture won't buy you much in the way of improved
>> performance, and will take you a lot of time that you could better expend
>> elsewhere.
>Actually, I didn't mean to recompile the original Slack packages on my
>machine... I meant the new packages (Mplayer, libdvdread, ...).
My comment still stands. It won't buy you much in the way of performance.
If you're concerned about being able to run the package on multiple CPU
architectures, all the way down to 80486, then use the same compiler flags
that Pat does in his build scripts.
Mark Post
news
> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:12:49 +0000, ray wrote:
>
>
>>Niki Kovacs wrote:
>>
>>>One thing that would be interesting: to know how many people here actually
>>>use Slackware as their main desktop environment? (Stand up and be
>>>counted...)
>>
>>at work I was trying but we're still stuck with Winblows. My boss
>>considers NT the followon to VMS and he worked for DEC, so I'm screwed
>>there.
>
>
> Tell your boss that there are people who are curious to know what century
> he thinks he's living in :-)
not going there. I've got a lot of things to tell my boss. ;)
Hey, at least we're using Samba on VMS to share files with Windows.
It's not linux, but it's a start.
Ray
news
Dave Cutler. Used to work for DEC back in the days of VAX/VMS. Then
went to work for MS for Windows NT.
Don't get me started on DEC. "The customer is always wrong" seemed to
be their mentality.
Also, because VT320's are just as good as a PC, I'm stuck supporting
Craptrix... I mean Citrix. Take all the crappy stuff of Windows, and
all the crappy parts of X Windows and blend them together.
Ahh... nevermind.
Eef Hartman
> speaking countries because its original name VIC-20 was inappropriate
In German VIC sounds too much like "fick" (fuck in English).....
--
********************************************************************
** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. EWI/TW **
** e-mail: E.J.M....@math.tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
********************************************************************
Mark South
> Thomas Overgaard <tho...@post2.tele.dk> wrote:
>> speaking countries because its original name VIC-20 was inappropriate
>
> In German VIC sounds too much like "fick" (fuck in English).....
I believe that it was actually meant to be Matt McIrvin who would
explain that particular joke, so please canel your post before it
propagates all over the oozernet.
Niki Kovacs
> Thomas Overgaard <tho...@post2.tele.dk> wrote:
>> speaking countries because its original name VIC-20 was inappropriate
>
> In German VIC sounds too much like "fick" (fuck in English).....
That reminds me... in 96 I worked for a translation office that did some
work for IBM. Did you know that IBM's Aptiva wasn't meant to be called
that? The first project name was initially PINE... until the french
translation office reported a serious... er... ambiguity. Because the ad
would have gone like this:
DECOUVREZ LES JOIES DU MULTIMEDIA AVEC VOTRE PINE
meaning...
DISCOVER THE JOYS OF MULTIMEDIA WITH YOUR DICK
... so finally they changed that to Aptiva.
Cheers,
Niki
PS: BTW, VC-20 meant "VolksComputer" = PC for the people