CentOS

[mach2]

Does this group also cover CentOS?
--
Mach2
A member of the Linux Foundation
http://www.linuxfoundation.org

[Thad Floryan]

On 12/3/2013 5:26 PM, mach2 wrote:
> Does this group also cover CentOS?

Where do you think CentOS comes from? RHEL sources.

Somewhere else you wrote you played with CentOS 6.5
so surely you know its origin and, thus, this group
would be appropriate for CentOS and Scientific.

I gave up on CentOS since they (and Red Hat) can't
be trusted so my CentOS box is frozen at 6.3 since
the debacle of July 12, 2012 where they flat-out lied
in the Release Notes and then, 6 week later, altered
the notes and back-dated them. Bastards.

I stick with FreeBSD, OpenIndiana, and Solaris now
since most linux distros can't be trusted especially
regarding Lennartware and his hatred of all things
linux except for Red Hat.

Thad

[mach2]

On 12/03/2013 09:24 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:
> On 12/3/2013 5:26 PM, mach2 wrote:
>> Does this group also cover CentOS?
>

> this group
> would be appropriate for CentOS.

Great!

[Aragorn]

On Wednesday 04 December 2013 06:32, mach2 conveyed the following to
alt.os.linux.redhat...

> On 12/03/2013 09:24 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:
>> On 12/3/2013 5:26 PM, mach2 wrote:
>>> Does this group also cover CentOS?
>>
>> this group would be appropriate for CentOS.
>
> Great!

Only problem is, I haven't seen any new posts in here for ages, except
for this thread. ;-)

--
= Aragorn =

http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

[Bit Twister]

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 08:17:46 +0100, Aragorn wrote:

> Only problem is, I haven't seen any new posts in here for ages, except
> for this thread. ;-)

Yes, Redhat fell into disrepute when some VP figured Redhat was losing
money by providing a free download a decade or so back. So they quit
providing it and the "free loaders" left to other distributions.

What the VP did not take into consideration was all those free QA testers
reporting bugs running on all sorts of hardware which made for a well
tested distribution. Was not long before their bread and butter
distribution was racking up bugs to no end. Then there was the loss
of all the on-line Usenet help desk personnel for their product. :)

An apology was made to the "Community" but it took years to start
getting a "Community" back for free QA testers.

Here is the article count when I subscribed to Eternal September. and
you can see it was pretty sad.
$ uj

alt.linux.redhat: 1-90
alt.os.linux.redhat: 1-337
redhat.config: 1,1151-1709
redhat.networking.general: 1-4
redhat.security.general: 1
linux.redhat.install: 1-73
alt.certification.redhat! 1-22
alt.pl.comp.os.linux.redhat! 1-66
cz.comp.linux.redhat-cz! 1-152
gated.redhat-install-list! 1-308
gated.redhat-list! 1-1079
it.comp.os.linux.redhat! 1-1285
linux.redhat! 1-6184
linux.redhat.announce! 1-2
linux.redhat.devel! 1-17
linux.redhat.misc! 1-600
linux.redhat.ppp! 1-14
linux.redhat.rpm! 1-278
redhat.announce!
redhat.control! 1-2
redhat.general! 1-52,64,82
redhat.hardware.arch.alpha! 1-3
redhat.hardware.arch.intel! 1-8
redhat.hardware.arch.sparc! 1-3
redhat.kernel.general! 1-20
redhat.projects.freemware!
redhat.rpm.general! 1-13
redhat.servers.general! 1-4
redhat.test! 1-58
redhat.x.general! 1-16

Fedora was not much better.
$ uj fedora
alt.os.linux.fedora: 1-38
alt.pl.comp.os.linux.fedora! 1-6433
gated.fedora-announce-list! 1-27
gated.fedora-desktop-list! 1-204
gated.fedora-devel-java-list! 1-102
gated.fedora-infrastructure-list! 1-566
gated.fedora-websites-list! 1-289
gated.fedora-xen! 1-697

[mach2]

On 12/03/2013 11:17 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 December 2013 06:32, mach2 conveyed the following to
> alt.os.linux.redhat...
>
>> On 12/03/2013 09:24 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:
>>> On 12/3/2013 5:26 PM, mach2 wrote:
>>>> Does this group also cover CentOS?
>>>
>>> this group would be appropriate for CentOS.
>>
>> Great!
>
> Only problem is, I haven't seen any new posts in here for ages, except
> for this thread. ;-)
>

Yeah, I looked over the last two hundred posts and didn't see any which
is what prompted me to ask.

[mach2]

On 12/04/2013 03:14 AM, Bit Twister wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 08:17:46 +0100, Aragorn wrote:
>
>> Only problem is, I haven't seen any new posts in here for ages, except
>> for this thread. ;-)
>
> Yes, Redhat fell into disrepute when some VP figured Redhat was losing
> money by providing a free download a decade or so back. So they quit
> providing it and the "free loaders" left to other distributions.
>
> What the VP did not take into consideration was all those free QA testers
> reporting bugs running on all sorts of hardware which made for a well
> tested distribution. Was not long before their bread and butter
> distribution was racking up bugs to no end. Then there was the loss
> of all the on-line Usenet help desk personnel for their product. :)
>
> An apology was made to the "Community" but it took years to start
> getting a "Community" back for free QA testers.

Are there any big differences between CentOS and RedHat? Redhat has a
desktop and workstation designation on their web site. And when I
installed CentOS they too had a desktop. I wanted to make sure I got a
compiler added as part of the install and opted for the Developer
designation.

Redhat also wanted $49 a year for desktop and $279 for workstation.

[Bit Twister]

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 08:34:00 -0800, mach2 wrote:

> Are there any big differences between CentOS and RedHat?

I have no clue. At one time Fedora was the bleeding edge release of
the next Redhat release without support. I was one of the "Free
Loaders" who quit the distribution when they cut off Community
access. And as a result I have not bothered to keep up with what is
going on with Redhat.

> Redhat has a
> desktop and workstation designation on their web site. And when I
> installed CentOS they too had a desktop. I wanted to make sure I got a
> compiler added as part of the install and opted for the Developer
> designation.
>
> Redhat also wanted $49 a year for desktop and $279 for workstation.

What you are paying for is support for the product, I.E security/bug
fixes which an Business would want. Me I can get by with Mageia Linux.

I pick all groups but Other Graphical Desktops, see
http://doc.mageia.org/installer/3/en/content/choosePackageGroups.html

I will agree install is not for the novice. :)

System management tools would make the letter-spaced-one happy.
http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/index.html


As soon as I saw your CentOS ucpinfo output, I downloaded/installed it
in a VirtualBox guest. I was a bit put out when mouse would not leave
the guest. Mounted guest additions iso and started loading
compiler/linker/libraries/initd to get VirtualBox client to compile/run.
Never completed the compile. But enough was working for mouse to
escape the guest.

I am a spoiled Classic KDE desktop user and quickly got tired of
CentOS's unfriendly user interface.

[Mach2]

Yeah, upcinfo kind of compelled me to check it out. More experience is a
good thing too. I like to see what else is out there.

> I am a spoiled Classic KDE desktop user and quickly got tired of
> CentOS's unfriendly user interface.

I prefer KDE but I can adapt to most anything fairly well and without
complaint except in the case of Ubuntu's Unity. Not a fan of that at all.

[Thad Floryan]

On 12/3/2013 11:17 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 December 2013 06:32, mach2 conveyed the following to
> alt.os.linux.redhat...
>
>> On 12/03/2013 09:24 PM, Thad Floryan wrote:
>>> On 12/3/2013 5:26 PM, mach2 wrote:
>>>> Does this group also cover CentOS?
>>> this group would be appropriate for CentOS.
>> Great!
>
> Only problem is, I haven't seen any new posts in here for ages, except
> for this thread. ;-)

Heh! The Yahoo redhat group has been dormant and moribund
for ages:

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/redhat/conversations/messages

and so has the Yahoo linux group due to Yahoo committing seppuku

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku

with an idiotic makeover of all its franchises which essentially
killed Yahoo groups mid-August 2013.with its brain-dead 'neo' web
interface.

Most of the "biggie" distros (Canonical/Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat,
CentOS, et al) maintain their own websites for all Q&A support,
documentation, downloads, bug reporting, and more so there's
little incentive to use Usenet for those distros for those
purposes.

And as I wrote yesterday in another Usenet group regarding Yahoo:

Regarding Yahoo Groups, the Neo infection was injected mid-August 2013
and Yahoo groups are no longer a proper venue for any technical forum.

I know, I'm the owner of a bunch of Yahoo groups and will be deleting
most of the groups and abandoning Yahoo unless the fixes occur by
January 2014 (which, given the management and employees of Yahoo being
totally incompetent, I don't see happening).

I notice the Yahoo problems more than anyone else because I run
a number of groups and one of the most important to me is the linux
group whose archives have been hosed by Neo. By hosed I mean that
only a proportional font (previously "Use fixed width font" was
available) which renders *ALL* code and script examples and all
formatted tables totally unreadable. Plus there are many owner
capabilities that have simply vanished. Using "Reply" to a message
in the archives brings up an insanely-formatted non-standard reply
format which is not usable and violates all Usenet convention
since 1981.

I'm in 70+ Yahoo groups and I've noticed two things since Neo
infected Groups in mid-August 2013:

1. message traffic has dropped over 95% in most groups, and
2. owners are deleting groups and moving away from Yahoo.

I've used Usenet since 1981 and that's where I am mostly nowadays
but the sci.astro.amateur group is a poor substitute for what all
the astro groups at Yahoo were before the Neo infection.

I'm giving Yahoo until January to either fix Neo or restore the
previous web interface. I don't think anyone today at Yahoo is
capable of doing either, so I'll definitely not be visiting any
Yahoo franchise after that point. Remember "Yahoo" means idiot.

Mayer is clueless and obviously has a "smartphone" fetish. For those
who haven't heard her speak before, this is telling and it's not clear
if she's drunk and/or on designer drugs in this YouTube presentation of
her speaking at Stanford University (in Silicon Valley):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSujceZDmg runtime 2 minutes

It appears Yahoo (the company) now matches Yahoo (the definition):

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/yahoo

an uncultivated or boorish person; lout; philistine; yokel.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/yahoo

a person who is not very intelligent or interested in culture

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yahoo

a boorish, crass, or stupid person

and it's very clear given the musical chair situation at Yahoo with
all the following idiots being Yahoo CEOs in too-short a timeframe:

Marissa Mayer (2012 - present)
Ross Levinsohn Interim (2012)
Scott Thompson (2012)
Tim Morse Interim (2011 - 2012)
Carol Bartz (2009 - 2011)
Jerry Yang (2007 - 2009)
Terry Semel (2001 - 2007)
Timothy Koogle (1995- 2001)

Yahoo should just belly-up ASAP and be done with it.

Thad

[Aragorn]

On Wednesday 04 December 2013 21:50, Thad Floryan conveyed the following
to alt.os.linux.redhat...

> Heh! The Yahoo redhat group has been dormant and moribund
> for ages:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/redhat/conversations/messages
>
> and so has the Yahoo linux group due to Yahoo committing seppuku
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku

I know what seppuku is, Thad. I know quite a lot about the bushido. ;-)

> [...]

> Mayer is clueless and obviously has a "smartphone" fetish. For those
> who haven't heard her speak before, this is telling and it's not clear
> if she's drunk and/or on designer drugs in this YouTube presentation
> of her speaking at Stanford University (in Silicon Valley):
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSujceZDmg runtime 2 minutes
>

> [...]

I've heard Marissa Mayer speak before, and her monotone voice in
combination with the geeky profession she has both tell me that she's
clearly an Aspie. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because
Asperger Syndrome is the same thing as a diagnosis of high-functioning
autism, which I myself also carry - Asperger's is no longer listed as a
diagnosis anymore in the DSM-5, and it was already considered synonymous
to high-functioning autism in the DSM-IV.

Not every autistic person talks like Marissa Mayer, of course - I for
one do not - but many do, and this is one of the reasons why there
exists an anecdotal stereotype, sometimes also humorously referred to as
"geek syndrome".

As for her focus on smartphones, well, most analysts seem to think that
the smartphone is the new IT platform and that desktop workstations and
laptops are "so passé". But then again, even though I own two
smartphones - which I don't really use for all that they're capable of -
I've never been much for following trends, and I still believe there is
a future for the desktop/deskside workstation. ;-)

[Thad Floryan]

On 12/4/2013 8:34 AM, mach2 wrote:
> [...]

> Are there any big differences between CentOS and RedHat?

Very minor besides the "branding" being changed from Redhat
to CentOS. See:

http://distrowatch.com/8190 re: CentOS 6.5

and the release notes here:

http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS6.5

> Redhat has a
> desktop and workstation designation on their web site. And when I
> installed CentOS they too had a desktop. I wanted to make sure I got a
> compiler added as part of the install and opted for the Developer
> designation.

You'll still have to spend hours scrolling through Synaptic (GUI
package manager) to get all the components for a "complete" developer
setup which is a very tedious process -- I've been a software developer
since the early 1960s and I basically need all libs and "accessories"
for all the programming I still do nowadats.

I've compiled a ton of stuff on CentOS 6, for example XEphem:

http://thadlabs.com/PIX/CentOS_6.2_XEphem.jpg

but there are so many bugs and "idiosyncracies" and security issues
with CentOS (and RedHat) that I now mostly use it only to play the
Shisen-Sho and Mahjongg games while on the phone -- CentOS excels
running those two games. :-)

Here are my photographic screen shots of one login security bug
with CentOS 6 and you can see it worked correctly with Redhat 9
released during 2003 (the bug is displaying the user name(s)
like Windows does so I wonder if Poettering is involved):

http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_CentOS6.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_RedHat9.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_Vista.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_Win7.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_WinXP.jpg

The login security problem did *NOT* exist in RHEL/CentOS 5 but was
regressed (i.e., was reintroduced) in CentOS 6 and has *NOT* been
fixed despite the lies of a RedHat VP as you can read here which
strongly suggests RedHat has NO QA -- neither regression nor
comprehensive. Read this security issue which remains unfixed several
releases later and the comment from RedHat exec Mike Grima dated
2011-12-28 07:58:25 EST (scroll down) and note the "Severity: HIGH"
and that it's not fixed even as of Redhat/CentOS 6.5:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=666220

" There is a problem with the proposed gconf configuration command
" that supposedly fixes the problem: it kills smart card login
" support.
"
" Increasingly, many secure environments are using smart cards to
" control access to their systems, and thus, this command is not a
" proper workaround to this problem.
"
" I am currently in the process of submitting a support ticket for
" this to be resolved, because this is very serious. Displaying
" all available user accounts on the system is a major security
" problem that is unacceptable for an enterprise class OS, such as
" RHEL.
"
" This is a major regression from RHEL 5 which did not present a
" user list, and also allowed for proper smart card login support.
"
" This problem should, at the very least, be addressed in RHEL 6.3
" or 6.4.

It has NOT been fixed as of version 6.5 and here is RHEL/CentOS'
release date schedule:

https://access.redhat.com/site/articles/3078

Some "basic" programs don't work properly on CentOS but do work fine
on Windows under Cygwin and every other (than CentOS) linux, *BSD,
and Solaris I have.

For an example, see these screenshots and note the identical data files
are used with xfig on all platforms and note CentOS is the one with a
font problem and note the two Windows systems are running Cygwin:

http://thadlabs.com/PIX/xfig_test_CentOS_6.3_64-bit.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/xfig_test_RedHat_9_32-bit.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/xfig_test_Vista-SP2_64-bit.jpg
http://thadlabs.com/PIX/xfig_test_WinXP-SP3_32-bit.jpg

Fortunately Emacs works fine on CentOS; if it didn't I would have
totally blown-away CentOS last year.

The CentOS 6.2 to 6.3 downgrade replaced OpenOffice, which I use 50+
times a day (now on another system), with LibreOffice which I don't
like. Neither RHEL nor CentOS included that fact on the July 2012
Release Notes. 6 weeks later they did include that and backdated
the Release Notes. Bastards.

> Redhat also wanted $49 a year for desktop and $279 for workstation.

FWIW, CentOS is free if you don't value your time.

Thad