USB: The Universal Serial Bus

[Benjamin David Lunt]

Hi guys,

Just a small update. The Amazon link below now has
a "Look Inside" for the first few pages of my book.
The Contents pages are listed. This will explain in
a little more detail exactly what the book explains.

Thank you to everyone for your support. The last few
pages of the "Look Inside" also show the page where
I have listed some of your names.

Again, thank you for those who helped, and if I missed
someone, please be sure to let me know.

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Universal-Serial-Bus-8/dp/1468151983

Thanks,
Ben

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Forever Young Software
http://www.fysnet.net/index.htm
http://www.fysnet.net/The_Universal_Serial_Bus.htm
To reply by email, please remove the zzzzzz's

Batteries not included, some assembly required.

[Benjamin David Lunt]

"Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote in message
news:ji5r8s$gmt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Hi guys,
>
> Just a small update. The Amazon link below now has
> a "Look Inside" for the first few pages of my book.
> The Contents pages are listed. This will explain in
> a little more detail exactly what the book explains.
>
> Thank you to everyone for your support. The last few
> pages of the "Look Inside" also show the page where
> I have listed some of your names.
>
> Again, thank you for those who helped, and if I missed
> someone, please be sure to let me know.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/USB-Universal-Serial-Bus-8/dp/1468151983

P.S. I also wanted to thank Mike Gonta for the comments
he has made along with the Facebook page, etc.

Thanks Mike.

[Rod Pemberton]

"Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote in message
news:ji5r8s$gmt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

...

> Again, thank you for those who helped, and if I missed
> someone, please be sure to let me know.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/USB-Universal-Serial-Bus-8/dp/1468151983
>

Hey, do you plan to list all of us twice like you did for "James Harris"?
;-)

Sigh, noticing that is way to detail-oriented for my tastes ...


Rod Pemberton

[Jordi Sanfeliu]

That will be with no doubt my next book to buy!
:)

[Benjamin David Lunt]

"Rod Pemberton" <do_no...@noavailemail.cmm> wrote in message
news:ji7p4p$r0a$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Oops. I did list him twice. Oh well, I am just barely perfect. :-)

[Benjamin David Lunt]

"Jordi Sanfeliu" <jordi.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5a9f89af-8fa8-4be1...@ge5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

> That will be with no doubt my next book to buy!
> :)

Be sure to send me the "proof of purchase" to my email
address and I will send you the ISO image of the CD.

Thanks,
Ben

See the bottom of
http://www.fysnet.net/The_Universal_Serial_Bus.htm
for a list of items that qualify for "proof of purchase"

[James Harris]

On Feb 24, 10:34 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:
> "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote in messagenews:ji5r8s$gmt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> ...
>
> > Again, thank you for those who helped, and if I missed
> > someone, please be sure to let me know.
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/USB-Universal-Serial-Bus-8/dp/1468151983
>
> Hey, do you plan to list all of us twice like you did for "James Harris"?
> ;-)

I must have helped a lot. :-)

> Sigh, noticing that is way to detail-oriented for my tastes ...

What level did you want?

James

[wolfgang kern]

Benjamin David Lunt said:

> "Jordi Sanfeliu" <jordi.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5a9f89af-8fa8-4be1...@ge5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>> That will be with no doubt my next book to buy!
>> :)

> Be sure to send me the "proof of purchase" to my email
> address and I will send you the ISO image of the CD.

For the moment I can't proof that ...

I still have problems to order this book, some, if not all of my
local book-suppliers hesitate (LIKE ME) to show their bank-account
on the net. Amazon-business haven't got too much trustworthy here.

Either way, I really/want/need to have this book ...
but I cannot nor want to give up on private security.

I still hope your book become more popular so I may get it even
by a small chance to order it without giving up my privacy.

__
wolfgang
amazon got this certain flavor of spying beyond ...
and be sure that I never tell this idiots were my money is!]

[Benjamin David Lunt]

"wolfgang kern" <now...@never.at> wrote in message
news:ji8lh0$1m0$1...@newsreader2.utanet.at...

>
> I still have problems to order this book, some, if not all of my
> local book-suppliers hesitate (LIKE ME) to show their bank-account
> on the net. Amazon-business haven't got too much trustworthy here.
>
> Either way, I really/want/need to have this book ...
> but I cannot nor want to give up on private security.
>
> I still hope your book become more popular so I may get it even
> by a small chance to order it without giving up my privacy.

The book should be on shelves in stores within the next few weeks.
If this is not an option, the publisher tells me that they will
send it to major public libraries too. Then through the library's
book transfer system, you could request it to your local library.

Ben

[s_dub...@yahoo.com]

On Feb 24, 12:50 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
> "wolfgang kern" <nowh...@never.at> wrote in message

I ordered a copy today at Barnes & Noble, should have it next mid
week.

Naturally the cleck couldn't find it in their system, but I had pre-
checked that their website, www.bn.com, had it listed. That search
wasn't easy either. I ended up searching for USB, that gave me a long
list of hardware items, but near the end was the book, finally. So I
was able to inform the clerk that, indeed, it was on their website, he
found it and got the info he needed to order it for me.

As if to explain the clumsiness of the transaction the clerk made a
few comments..

'Oh, it's by a small independent publisher.' 'It's published on
demand' 'It's still in print' :))

Now that I've ordered it, maybe it'll be in their system for the next
person. Just maybe they'll stock a copy on the shelf of their
computer books section. Ok, that's a long shot. The computer book
section is one tenth the space devoted to cookbooks alone. <gripes
off>

Thanks Ben

[wolfgang kern]

Benjamin David Lunt replied:

>> I still have problems to order this book, some, if not all of my
>> local book-suppliers hesitate (LIKE ME) to show their bank-account
>> on the net. Amazon-business haven't got too much trustworthy here.

>> Either way, I really/want/need to have this book ...
>> but I cannot nor want to give up on private security.

>> I still hope your book become more popular so I may get it even
>> by a small chance to order it without giving up my privacy.

> The book should be on shelves in stores within the next few weeks.
> If this is not an option, the publisher tells me that they will
> send it to major public libraries too. Then through the library's
> book transfer system, you could request it to your local library.

Thanks Ben, I'll keep on trying ...
__
wolfgang

[Rod Pemberton]

"wolfgang kern" <now...@never.at> wrote in message
news:ji8lh0$1m0$1...@newsreader2.utanet.at...
...

> Either way, I really/want/need to have this book ...
> but I cannot nor want to give up on private security.
>

Here in the US, you can go to your bookstore, have them order it, have them
contact you when it comes in. Then, you can pay via cash or credit card.
That's probably the closest you'll get to "private security," if they don't
stock it.

Or, you can "give up on private security" and order it online via their
website, or you can keep some "private security" if you pay online via
Paypal, etc.


Rod Pemberton

[Rod Pemberton]

"James Harris" <james.h...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:f6edb1ef-1703-42d0...@y38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 24, 10:34 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> wrote:
> > "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote in
> > messagenews:ji5r8s$gmt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
...

> > > Again, thank you for those who helped, and if I missed
> > > someone, please be sure to let me know.
>

> > Hey, do you plan to list all of us twice like you did
> > for "James Harris"? ;-)
>
> I must have helped a lot. :-)
>

<OT - no longer USB related>

Not to detract from Ben's USB book, but ...

I was going to ask how you managed to afford a clone ... ;-)

Isn't that still illegal? I think it is, at least in the (so called) 1st
world countries ... So, I guess we'll being seeing clones in the 3rd world
countries first ... (shiver). Not only will we be behind, but you know the
safety mechanisms and quality control will be lacking when they clone ...
(cringe). Well, that's what happens when we leave government to morons who
make the laws and allow a single, collective, government proxy, the UN, to
make rules for all of us.

> > Sigh, noticing that is way to detail-oriented for my tastes ...
>
> What level did you want?

My intuitiveness enhances my creativity, so if for some reason I've shifted
to the other side of the N-F scale ...

(See psychology: Myers-Briggs type indicator)


Rod Pemberton

[James Harris]

On Feb 25, 10:19 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:

...

> > > Sigh, noticing that is way to detail-oriented for my tastes ...
>
> > What level did you want?
>
> My intuitiveness enhances my creativity, so if for some reason I've shifted
> to the other side of the N-F scale ...
>
> (See psychology: Myers-Briggs type indicator)

I'm now trying to imaging anyone writing USB driver software by feel
or intuition!

If you want an overview of USB there may be existing high-level books.
USB System Architecture in common with the other Mindshare books in
the same series spends significant time on the hardware but does
explain the structures needed for programming.

If you want to write USB software for an OS, though, the details are
needed. Having example snippets of source code is all the better,
IMHO, as they show something that has worked.

Speaking of psychology, I wondered if your preference for online
materials was part of what led you to feel negatively about this USB
book. IIRC you don't tend to use books for your OS work. Do you own
*any* books that you think are good for OS dev? Any that you would
recommend?

James

[Rod Pemberton]

"James Harris" <james.h...@googlemail.com> wrote in message

news:1533a646-34ad-4215...@k6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 25, 10:19 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> wrote:
...

< most OT of Ben's USB book too>

> > > Sigh, noticing that is way to detail-oriented for my tastes ...
>
> > What level did you want?
>
> > My intuitiveness enhances my creativity, so if for some reason
> > I've shifted to the other side of the N-F scale ...

Sorry, N-S scale...

> > (See psychology: Myers-Briggs type indicator)
>
> I'm now trying to imaging anyone writing USB driver
> software by feel or intuition!

Well, the MBTI uses the terms a bit differently. "Feel" refers to one who
feels and how one stores information mentally. "Intuition" refers to how
one views the world and how one problem solves. (more below)

The following can be used to quickly determine 3 of the 4 letters of a
person's MBTI type:

NT's seek knowledge (I) or leaderhip (E).
NF's seek their own identity (I) or harmony with others (E).
SJ's seek to preserve traditions (I) or maintain order (E).
SP's seek to be a free spirit (I) or excitement (E).

I is introversion while E is for extroversion. J vs. P determination is
fourth letter needed for NT or NF personalities. T vs. F determination is
fourth letter needed for SJ or SP personalities. Each group uses certain
words which you'll need to pull from actual MBTI related material

You mentioned "feel" so:

T - thinking is someone who thinks (60% males)
F - feeling is someone who feels (60% females)

As well as explaining an individual's perspective on issues, those both also
have to do with how people store information mentally. Thinkers store
information logically, rationally, by topic, sequential time, etc. Feelers
store information by emotions, task, by person, time-of-day, time-of-year,
etc.

You mentioned "intuition" so:

N - intuition is "big picture" thinking.
S - sensing is "detail oriented" thinking.

Intuition also allows the person to arrive at conclusions, correctly,
without working through the process. Non-intuitives usually view this as
"jumping to" conclusions, but it's radically different from that. Sensing
individuals *must* work through the process step-by-step. For mathematics,
I did so too, but I knew what the answer was or should've been or had a high
degree of certainty as to how to progress through the problem *prior to*
doing so. I'm highly visual, not as verbal. E.g., I could solve (visually)
all 40 or so geometry problems in section of our HS textbook in about 2
minutes flat. I then had to spend quite a bit of time writting them down
and drawing diagrams ... That part was the PIA: slow, boring, monotonous,
tedius, non-creative, wrote. Except for speaking or listening to spoken
words, everything I think or see or hear is basically visual or has some
strong visual-ized component, but not the ... Uh, I don't recall the name
for it, there is psychological problem where sounds actually get linked to
images in the brain, etc. Some "savants" and "autistics" have this. I
don't have whatever that is. I've become better verbally in recent years
due to all the Usenet posts, sigh. A big part of the problem I think is
that although I had a large vocabulary, 1) I needed a much larger one to
express nuances properly, and 2) I needed work on converting ideas and
images into expressable words. From recent posts elsewhere, it seems I
still need more work there. That's not always so easy. E.g., logic is very
simple for me, as images. I can usually tell when someone is non-visual,
when they attempt to express logic related statements. They always end up
in a passionate discussion and/or argument with me. It's usually not until
they've worked through things completely, sometimes through all the things
that come up in an entire conversation, that they realize I was correct all
along, about everything. To them, it seems like I "jumped to a conclusion"
in a split-second, but that conclusion is based upon both visual image
processing and large database of memories. I've "distilled" large amounts
of information into my conclusions and beliefs. If I express too much at
once, someone picks apart the details. If I don't express enough, someone
else says that what I've stated is incorrect. It's difficult to find that
balance, except to not respond in the first place. I now firmly believe
that images are worth more than a 1 Trillion words, easily. Words are the
bottleneck.

> Speaking of psychology, I wondered if your preference

> for online materials was part [...]

Did I say something about that ... ?

Well, a bit of that is just motivation too. I just haven't had to desire to
go to bookstores or libraries for some time now. Once Amazon took off and
Barnes & Noble became available online, ISTM the bookstores cut back on the
variety and quality of the books they carried. I.e., they have shied away
from books more likely to remain on the shelves for longer holding time
periods,i.e., specialized or advanced. They're looking for quick inventory
turnover just like all other businesses. The public libraries have been in
a financial pinch for some years too. From the online indexes of my local
libraries, you can't even find a programming book listed on DOS or older
Windows. It's possible they aren't indexed or the online search engines are
limiting quantity of indexed items.

> [...] of what led you to feel negatively about this USB book.

Uh, I don't recall making a negative comment about Ben's book or any USB
book. Did I? I didn't mean too, if I did.

Personally, I was going to wait until I "get there" to look at Ben's book.
I haven't checked, but just how many books are there are on USB programming?
(probably not too many, i.e., it's highly technical and specialized) Except
to make notes, I haven't worked on my OS in a few years. It's stalled, for
now, but I tend to cycle between projects. However, I've mostly been
focused on one lately. There is only so much I can take, before I need
something different or a break. So, I've diverted myself to other projects.
I.e., if I ever restart my OS development and if I ever get to the USB part,
I'll take a look at it. My last OS related plans were to look at
implementing very basic IDE code, and filesystem code. Of course, my new
machine is SATA (in IDE emulation) ... sigh. I'm not sure how long they'll
continue to support that. I.e., I might be forced to write SATA code just
after I get the IDE code finished ... ;-)

But, as to "feel negatively", anyway I'm a very strong T not an F ... just
about zero F. ;-) BTW, ... very strongly INTJ. If you searched my old
posts, you'd have found it and more. I.e., if you use the above, I'm
knowledge oriented, introverted, and "judging" which is basically the
opposite of spontaneous ... Supposedly, people perceive you as your opposite
type: ESFP an excitement seeking, feeling, extrovert ... I must be a
likable dude! :-0 Seems the MBTI comes up a bit with BGB/CR88192.

> IIRC you don't tend to use books for your OS work.

I don't recall saying that, but might've. I've not used any books so far,
except for two C references, which I keep around for all C stuff. So far,
except for those two, I've only used online sources for OS devel, preferably
.pdf's, AMD/Intel manuals, chipset books, etc.

> Do you own *any* books that you think are good for OS
> dev? Any that you would recommend?

I don't know. My actual "library" has been boxed up for quite a few years
now for a move than didn't happen. AFAIR, I had a variety of books on
programming languages and various microprocessors, but I don't recall any
specific OS development books. That wasn't something that interested me at
the time. I might have a few though... I was far more interested in
electrical engineering and microprocessor design, not programming, although
I loved to program as a hobby. I think I had one book on more specific PC
info, like BIOS and ports. I recall another from late '80's or early '90's
at a bookstore that discussed quite a variety of OS topics in-depth, such as
polling, which I'm not sure if I bought or not. I might've. It seems
likely. It was real difficult back then to locate extremely in-depth
materials at libraries and bookstores, even well stocked ones. You couldn't
get books from MS, AMD, Intel, etc from bookstores or libraries. Then,
there is the stuff I read at numerous libraries, books and magazines, much
of which I don't even recall anymore ... E.g., I read ten years worth of
Byte magazine, but only recall a few things from it, now. Most of it was
obsolete within a few years. Ditto for Forbes, but certain financial
knowledge doesn't become obsolete ...


Rod Pemberton

[James Harris]

On Feb 26, 12:45 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:

...

> > [...] of what led you to feel negatively about this USB book.
>
> Uh, I don't recall making a negative comment about Ben's book or any USB
> book.  Did I?  I didn't mean too, if I did.

I didn't say you were disparaging the book itself but that you
yourself felt negatively about it. I was referring to your comment
where you said with a sigh(!) that it was way too detailed for your
tastes.

> Personally, I was going to wait until I "get there" to look at Ben's book.

I bought a copy but I'm not there yet either. A long way from it, in
fact.

James

[Rod Pemberton]

"James Harris" <james.h...@googlemail.com> wrote in message

news:5dcc7e84-04d5-41ca...@db5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

On Feb 26, 12:45 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:

...

> > > [...] of what led you to feel negatively about this USB book.
>
> > Uh, I don't recall making a negative comment about Ben's book
> > or any USB book. Did I? I didn't mean too, if I did.
>
> I didn't say you were disparaging the book itself but that you
> yourself felt negatively about it. I was referring to your comment
> where you said with a sigh(!) that it was way too detailed for your
> tastes.
>

Oh, no, not the book ... I was talking about me. I said that *I* was being
too way detail oriented by noticing the duplicated names. I generally don't
notice such details. I haven't even taken a look at the book's details yet.
I just looked to see who Ben decided to list ... :-) He also has some
other online references there I don't recall seeing online ...


Rod Pemberton

[Benjamin David Lunt]

Hi guys,

Just a small note, thanking everyone for their
support and asking if anyone would like to submit
a review, to please go to either of the following
sites and do so:
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Universal-Serial-Bus-8/dp/1468151983
http://askdavid.com/reviews/book/usb-controller/1007

The moving face of the guy on that second page freaks me out :-),
but that is just my opinion. It makes me think he is watching
me. :-)

Anyway, if anyone would like to write a review, I would
appriciate it.

[James Harris]

On Apr 6, 6:21 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Just a small note, thanking everyone for their
> support and asking if anyone would like to submit
> a review, to please go to either of the following
> sites and do so:

...

I'm not at the stage of being able to use the book yet. In fact I'm a
long way from that. So I'm not in a position to submit a review. But I
am puzzled as to why you had it printed in a typeface that looks like
Courier. I can see it is not monospaced as there is sub-en
justification between words but each character looks like a monospaced
character.

Such a typeface makes it harder to read and makes the book more bulky.
With a different typeface the book could have been smaller and
lighter.

Was it a limitation of the publishing method?

James

[Benjamin David Lunt]

"James Harris" <james.h...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:064b449e-0add-4c7c...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
easy to read. :-)

The reason for the "bulkiness" is that when I read a book of this
type, I like to make notes throughout the book, in the margins,
next to key points in the text, next to or on figures, tables, etc.

This way, there is plenty of room to make notes. If I didn't leave
any room around the text, you couldn't make notes.

As for the "sub-en justification", I make everything fully justified,
left and right. Hence, you will have uneven spaces between words.

The style, typeface, and justification was completely my choice.
I created the .PDF and the publishers printed it as is.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. They are always welcome.

[James Harris]

On Apr 9, 1:24 am, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
> "James Harris" <james.harri...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >On Apr 6, 6:21 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:

...

> >> Just a small note, thanking everyone for their
> >> support and asking if anyone would like to submit
> >> a review, to please go to either of the following
> >> sites and do so:
>
> >...
>
> >I'm not at the stage of being able to use the book yet. In fact I'm a
> >long way from that. So I'm not in a position to submit a review. But I
> >am puzzled as to why you had it printed in a typeface that looks like
> >Courier. I can see it is not monospaced as there is sub-en
> >justification between words but each character looks like a monospaced
> >character.
>
> >Such a typeface makes it harder to read and makes the book more bulky.
> >With a different typeface the book could have been smaller and
> >lighter.
>
> >Was it a limitation of the publishing method?

...

> In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
> easy to read. :-)

Wow! :-)

It's easy to read in small sections but it's not a thing of beauty.
Take this as just an opinion (which you did ask for) and not an insult
but I honestly think it looks both ugly and cheap/unprofessional.
Given that you and I see it differently may make it worth canvassing
some opinions before printing the next book - or the next reprint of
this one... but maybe that's me hoping too much. I *really* dislike
the typeface.

To be clear, IMHO monospaced fonts are great for things which need to
be aligned but I don't like them for prose for the reasons mentioned.

> The reason for the "bulkiness" is that when I read a book of this
> type, I like to make notes throughout the book, in the margins,
> next to key points in the text, next to or on figures, tables, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying the book was bulky per se, only
that if a different font were used the book could be a little smaller
and lighter.

> This way, there is plenty of room to make notes.  If I didn't leave
> any room around the text, you couldn't make notes.

I don't understand this. The copy I received has very small outer
margins - about 15mm. Its inner margins are bigger but due to the
binding impractical for notes.

> As for the "sub-en justification", I make everything fully justified,
> left and right.  Hence, you will have uneven spaces between words.
>
> The style, typeface, and justification was completely my choice.
> I created the .PDF and the publishers printed it as is.
>
> Anyway, thanks for the comments.  They are always welcome.

They are intended to be helpful. Despite that I don't like the
appearance content is the most important thing.

James

[Rod Pemberton]

"Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote in message
news:jltaa3$nis$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> "James Harris" <james.h...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:064b449e-0add-4c7c...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> >On Apr 6, 6:21 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:

...

> >Such a typeface makes it harder to read and makes the book more bulky.
> >

> >Was it a limitation of the publishing method?
> >
>

> In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
> easy to read. :-)
>

Of late, everyone is talking about those Kindle things. Can you change the
font on them? A quick search seems to indicate that's a "no" for .pdf's,
but a "yes" for e-books ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-book_formats

Well, I think it looks alot like the "font" used by typewriters. Many early
processor manuals were typed on a typewriter or printed via a selectric.
Most books pre-Postscript era were typed too. Hurray! I loved the
typewriter look. It was very easy to read. It's also reminiscient of the
old green and orange terminal fonts, but is not fixed space. But, my
personal favorite, is called "Bookman Old Style". It's what's used in
MS Outlook (or was). The old 86/286/386 manuals are also much
easier to read than current manuals. They use something that looks
alot like an Arial or Helvetica font.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fonts/font.aspx?FMID=188

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookman_(typeface)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_New_Roman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier_(typeface)


Rod Pemberton

[s_dub...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 8, 7:24 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
> "James Harris" <james.harri...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:064b449e-0add-4c7c...@2g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 6, 6:21 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
> >> Hi guys,
>
> >> Just a small note, thanking everyone for their
> >> support and asking if anyone would like to submit
> >> a review, to please go to either of the following
> >> sites and do so:
>
> >...
>
> >I'm not at the stage of being able to use the book yet. In fact I'm a
> >long way from that. So I'm not in a position to submit a review. But I
> >am puzzled as to why you had it printed in a typeface that looks like
> >Courier. I can see it is not monospaced as there is sub-en
> >justification between words but each character looks like a monospaced
> >character.
>
> >Such a typeface makes it harder to read and makes the book more bulky.
> >With a different typeface the book could have been smaller and
> >lighter.
>
> >Was it a limitation of the publishing method?
>
> >James
>
> In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
> easy to read. :-)
>

I agree. I suppose it is what you are used to. Perhaps I've read so
many technical documents over the years in mono-spaced, double-
justified, that I expect that, or appreciate it. Proportional spaced
fonts for source code is just abhorrent, imho.

fwiw,

Steve

[James Harris]

On Apr 14, 5:14 pm, "s_dubrov...@yahoo.com" <s_dubrov...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> On Apr 8, 7:24 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:

...

> > In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
> > easy to read. :-)
>
> I agree.  I suppose it is what you are used to.  Perhaps I've read so
> many technical documents over the years in mono-spaced, double-
> justified, that I expect that, or appreciate it.  Proportional spaced
> fonts for source code is just abhorrent, imho.

Monospaced for some things is almost a must - e.g. source code. I read
Usenet using a monospaced font because some things need to line up.
However, I personally don't like it for paragraphs of explanatory text
in a book where vertical alignment is not needed. And Ben doesn't have
vertical alignment anyway because his text is justified.

Do you like to see monospaced text for book paragraphs too, and not
just for text that has to be aligned?

Aside from Courier the fonts that Rod linked to all look quite good.
Others worth considering might be versions of Palatino or Verdana.

Even Wingdings would be better. ;-)

James

[Rod Pemberton]

"James Harris" <james.h...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:4e8e182e-f98e-4076...@d4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...

> On Apr 14, 5:14 pm, "s_dubrov...@yahoo.com" <s_dubrov...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:

...

> Monospaced for some things is almost a must - e.g. source code.

Yes, for vertical formating/indentation of columns or braces or
conditionals, it's nice.

> I read Usenet using a monospaced font because some
> things need to line up.

Oh, I don't.

If I need to see fixed font, I usually copy the text and paste into an
editor that only supports a fixed font. That's like a couple of clicks, a
few times a year. Alternately, my newsreader allows you to select "fixed"
in it's font options. I've not used that - until just now. I should've
been using it I guess, except I usually need to save the content at the same
time. Select it. It immediately reformats with fixed font. Unselect it,
back to "Bookman Old Style".

Does Mozilla Firefox/Thunderbird do that? I'd think it should.


Rod Pemberton

[s_dub...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 16, 12:53 am, James Harris <james.harri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 5:14 pm, "s_dubrov...@yahoo.com" <s_dubrov...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 8, 7:24 pm, "Benjamin David Lunt" <zf...@fysnet.net> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > > In my opinion, the monospaced Courier typeface I used is very
> > > easy to read. :-)
>
> > I agree.  I suppose it is what you are used to.  Perhaps I've read so
> > many technical documents over the years in mono-spaced, double-
> > justified, that I expect that, or appreciate it.  Proportional spaced
> > fonts for source code is just abhorrent, imho.
>
> Monospaced for some things is almost a must - e.g. source code. I read
> Usenet using a monospaced font because some things need to line up.
> However, I personally don't like it for paragraphs of explanatory text
> in a book where vertical alignment is not needed. And Ben doesn't have
> vertical alignment anyway because his text is justified.
>
> Do you like to see monospaced text for book paragraphs too, and not
> just for text that has to be aligned?
>

Umm, I guess the answer is yes. Out of the couple of hundred books in
my library, mostly technical books, 99% are monospaced I think.
Perhaps because the majority predate .pdf and true-type fonts
typesetting.

> Aside from Courier the fonts that Rod linked to all look quite good.
> Others worth considering might be versions of Palatino or Verdana.
>
> Even Wingdings would be better. ;-)

Ouch. Obviously you have strong feelings about this. Which, to me,
is abit unexpected, enough to raise my brow. I was looking to draw
some broader inferences but not enough folks have responded. For one,
I wondered if your opinion would be in the majority, if region plays a
role in font preference, if age does.

As with any project, Ben (and us) learn a new lesson, 'expect the
unexpected'.

Steve

>
> James

[Rod Pemberton]

<s_dub...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:58631c8c-095c-47bf...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
...

<OT - was tenously related to Ben's book fonts ...>

> I was looking to draw some broader inferences but not enough
> folks have responded. For one, I wondered if your opinion would
> be in the majority, if region plays a role in font preference, if age
does.

There might be other factors too. What about the type of viewing device?
E.g., I think mpeg's look best on CRTs, but avi's look best on LCDs.
Glasses, contacts, bi-focals, tinted lenses, cataracts, or natural vision
could be a factor. Lighting such as incandescent, flourescent, natural
sunlight, clouded or clear lightbulb, can have an effect too. Other things,
like smoking which supposedly reduces color perception or medications,
can play a part in visual perception.


Rod Pemberton

[James Harris]

On Apr 16, 9:16 pm, "s_dubrov...@yahoo.com" <s_dubrov...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> On Apr 16, 12:53 am, James Harris <james.harri...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> > Even Wingdings would be better. ;-)
>
> Ouch.  Obviously you have strong feelings about this.  Which, to me,
> is abit unexpected, enough to raise my brow.

It was said with a smiley! However, yes, to an extent, I do strongly
dislike monospaced Courier for prose. I was probably equally surprised
to hear that you and Ben prefer it (for non-source code text).

>  I was looking to draw
> some broader inferences but not enough folks have responded.  For one,
> I wondered if your opinion would be in the majority, if region plays a
> role in font preference, if age does.

I doubt that we would get anything like enough responses on this
newsgroup to draw meaningful conclusions - albeit that the people who
read this are interested in the subject matter. But book publishing is
a well-known art and, while I am aware of some guidelines, I'm also
aware that there are many typographic principles that I have not come
across.

The one thing I do know is that a book can be made a thing of beauty
and clarity. Just to pick up a book that has been well laid out and
uses simple and few typefaces can draw the eye and invite one to read
it.

I took a look on the web for some guidelines as the topic has had
hundreds of years of study. Of course there are many references. A lot
of them were for web design which is slightly different but with
similar principles. Proper guidelines should come for print media.
Anyway, from a quick look these seemed quite good.

http://www.noupe.com/design/a-crash-course-in-typography-the-basics-of-type.html
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/11/04/best-practices-of-combining-typefaces/
http://www.prepressure.com/fonts/interesting

> As with any project, Ben (and us) learn a new lesson, 'expect the
> unexpected'.

Sounds like you may also have an interesting project in the pipeline.

James

[Steve]

James Harris <james.h...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>I doubt that we would get anything like enough responses on this
>newsgroup to draw meaningful conclusions - albeit that the people who
>read this are interested in the subject matter.

Hi James,

For the perhaps non-meaninful response: I view newsgrouops and
e-mail with monospaced fonts. I edit programs (and most other things)
in a DOS editor or WordPerfect which yield a monospaced display.
Word and PowerPoint end up with a proportional display.

Favorite fonts are New Century Schoolbook and Helvetica for proportional
OCR-B, Courier, and whatever screen font for monospaced. For real
paper and ink I generally use New Century for nonaligned text, Courier
for listings and other aligned text.

Cheers,

Steve N.

[wolfgang kern]

Steve wrote:

...
> For the perhaps non-meaninful response: I view newsgroups and

> e-mail with monospaced fonts. I edit programs (and most other things)
> in a DOS editor or WordPerfect which yield a monospaced display.
> Word and PowerPoint end up with a proportional display.

> Favorite fonts are New Century Schoolbook and Helvetica for proportional
> OCR-B, Courier, and whatever screen font for monospaced. For real
> paper and ink I generally use New Century for nonaligned text, Courier
> for listings and other aligned text.

Me too use only monospaced (CourierNew and LucidaConsole) to read
mails and news, and I mostly also answer e-mails that way even they
may be sent in any other format.

For reading explanatary text in hardcopy-books I'd prefer Times/NewRoman
or similar proportional, but for sure not any narrow variant.
A minimum font size may give also us oldies a chance to read without
magnifier-glasses ...

Listings, tables and source-code must/shall use monospaced IMHO.

__
wolfgang

[Steve]

"wolfgang kern" <now...@never.at> writes:
>
>For reading explanatary text in hardcopy-books I'd prefer Times/NewRoman
>or similar proportional, but for sure not any narrow variant.
>A minimum font size may give also us oldies a chance to read without
>magnifier-glasses ...

Hi,

Well, I selected New Century Schoolbook over Times/Times New Roman
as I find it is more readable and I find Times to be ugly. It is one of the 35
"standard" PostScript fonts and I try to use PostScript printers. (Times,
Courier, and Helvetica are also PostScript fonts.) And yes, I tend to use
larger fonts sizes as I have aged. But that applies to the screen or display
much more than real paper. (near-sighted.)

Regards,

Steve N.