Purpose of Grammarian
Frank
I will be the Grammarian this week.
I will be introducing a word, and also counting
"umms and ahhs".
I have a general idea what to do, but I wonder if someone can tell me how to
describe the job to the other guests and TM's since I don't want to leave
out anything.
Frank
Dan Goodman
wrote:
I can't help, because your club apparently does things its own way.
Generally, counting ahs and fillers is done by the Ah Counter -- who
is usually a separate person from the Grammarian.
Technically, the Grammarian's job is to note down any grammatical
errors made by anyone who talks during the meeting. Introducing the
Word of the Day is a minor additional duty; and some clubs have a
Wordmaster to do that.
In my club, too many people serving as Grammarian concentrated on the
Word of the Day. There's now a separate Wordmaster, leaving the
Grammarian free to concentrate on grammar.
----------
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
Dennis J. & Gloria A. Chada, St. Paul,MN
so says...
Frank,
Introduce a word, define, show proper pronunciation, and use in sentence.
My club has white board, so word goes up BIG in front. Many members will
also do handout to make sure word is "in front" of members to encourage
use!
You should note usage of word. I also like Grammarian to comment on
interesting and colorful word usage and well chosen phrases. Sometimes
that is only positive feedback some of those folks will get. Culuture
varies, often you will comment on "ill-chosen" words and bad grammar.
Try to balance good and bad comment and remember "no piling on!"
I dislike AH counters, but that is a different thread completely. I
think you ask if there is a "maximum" number for you to report - if
"Dennis" has 16 does that get announced or is that shared off-line? I
would think 5 or 6 max, then you say - "Dennis had more than 6 in his
table topics".
Here is a listening challenge for you - try to see WHEN the AHs happen.
For instance, "Dennis seemed to have an AH when he made transitions
during his speech" If you can discern a pattern you have made an
important insight for that member and also it has helped you with your
speaking!
BTW, congratulations on tackling a task before you are a member. One of
our very best was willing to fill in as timer during his second visit.
Let us know how it goes.
Good Luck
Dennis
--
Dennis J. Chada, ATM-G, CL
Vice-President of Education
First St. Paul Toastmasters
Meeting on Monday Nights in White BearLake, MN
Visit our webpage:
http://communities.startribune.com/861/Welcome.wsi
Yoj
message news:MPG.15dba65ae...@news.infinet.mindspring.com...
> In article <Aaic7.33229$B37.6...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>, do...@spam.me-
> so says...
> > I'm still a guest.
> > I will be the Grammarian this week.
> > I will be introducing a word, and also counting
> > "umms and ahhs".
> >
> > I have a general idea what to do, but I wonder if someone can tell me
how to
> > describe the job to the other guests and TM's since I don't want to
leave
> > out anything.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
>
> Frank,
>
> Introduce a word, define, show proper pronunciation, and use in sentence.
> My club has white board, so word goes up BIG in front. Many members will
> also do handout to make sure word is "in front" of members to encourage
> use!
>
> You should note usage of word. I also like Grammarian to comment on
> interesting and colorful word usage and well chosen phrases. Sometimes
> that is only positive feedback some of those folks will get. Culuture
> varies, often you will comment on "ill-chosen" words and bad grammar.
> Try to balance good and bad comment and remember "no piling on!"
I agree. If you pay attention (which isn't always as easy as it sounds),
you can usually pick up at least one or two good phrases or words to
mention.
> I dislike AH counters, but that is a different thread completely. I
> think you ask if there is a "maximum" number for you to report - if
> "Dennis" has 16 does that get announced or is that shared off-line? I
> would think 5 or 6 max, then you say - "Dennis had more than 6 in his
> table topics".
One of my clubs charges a fine - five cents per ah, with a maximum of 25
cents. Sone of our Ah counters will just say, "George owes the maximum."
Sometimes they'll indicate that the speaker can get the total after the
meeting if interested.
> Here is a listening challenge for you - try to see WHEN the AHs happen.
> For instance, "Dennis seemed to have an AH when he made transitions
> during his speech" If you can discern a pattern you have made an
> important insight for that member and also it has helped you with your
> speaking!
That is a very good suggestion. I actually saw/heard that done last night.
> BTW, congratulations on tackling a task before you are a member. One of
> our very best was willing to fill in as timer during his second visit.
We often have visitors who are willing to take a small job, with some
coaching. It is very encouraging, both to the visitor and to the club.
Regina Litman
>
> I can't help, because your club apparently does things its own way.
>
> Generally, counting ahs and fillers is done by the Ah Counter -- who
> is usually a separate person from the Grammarian.
>
> Technically, the Grammarian's job is to note down any grammatical
> errors made by anyone who talks during the meeting. Introducing the
> Word of the Day is a minor additional duty; and some clubs have a
> Wordmaster to do that.
>
> In my club, too many people serving as Grammarian concentrated on the
> Word of the Day. There's now a separate Wordmaster, leaving the
> Grammarian free to concentrate on grammar.
In the clubs around here, the Grammarian does the grammatical errors and
the ah-counting, and it has turned into more of an emphasis on the
latter. In my current club, we're also supposed to look for especially
good uses of the English language. The Wordmaster is usually a
different person, unless we have low attendance and have to double up.
Then, it's logical to combine the two functions.
In my old club, when membership dropped, we combined functions that had
formerly been separate:
Grammarian/Word Master
Toastmaster of the Day/Humor Master
Timer/Ballot Counter
Yoj
news:3B729438...@infi.net...
It is fascinating to me to see how functions are distributed. One of my
clubs has no Grammarian or Ah Counter. One of them combines the two jobs.
The third one has them separate, but in both cases, assigning the Word of
the Day is part of the Grammarian's job. One of my clubs has a position
called Humorist, the second has a Jokemaster. The third has neither. One
of my clubs doesn't vote. One has a Trophymaster each week, who counts the
ballots and hands out ribbons. In the third, the Sergeant at Arms always
counts the ballots, and the Toastmaster announces the winners.
Joy Gaylord, ATM
Robert Hewett
> clubs has no Grammarian or Ah Counter. One of them combines the two jobs.
> The third one has them separate, but in both cases, assigning the Word of
> the Day is part of the Grammarian's job. One of my clubs has a position
> called Humorist, the second has a Jokemaster. The third has neither. One
> of my clubs doesn't vote. One has a Trophymaster each week, who counts the
> ballots and hands out ribbons. In the third, the Sergeant at Arms always
> counts the ballots, and the Toastmaster announces the winners.
>
> Joy Gaylord, ATM
I'm certainly amazed at all the variations. I have never..."never"
...NEVER ever observed a club wherein a joke (humorist, joke meister,
etc..) person was regularly scheduled and had it come off good. Humor
is such a person thing. I think its easier to be offended by a joke
than a radical speech denouncing you and your kind.
Anyone else know of clubs where a joke meister is a successful
position?
-Bob
Yoj
"Robert Hewett" <rhe...@lsil.com> wrote in message
news:823b8420.01080...@posting.google.com...
One of my clubs has someone assigned for this position at each meeting. I'd
say it's successful at least 75% of the time. The President of the other
usually asks if anyone has a joke. I'd say these are successful 20% of the
time.
Joy
Dennis J. & Gloria A. Chada, St. Paul,MN
> It is fascinating to me to see how functions are distributed.
>
>
>
>
Joy,
We have one person do both Grammarian and Court Jester.
Grammarian does Word, tracks good and bad verbiage. Court Jester does
one joke early in agenda. We do a tipster, which is a 2 minute training
speech.
We do not have AH counter function. We will count if requested, but it
is never reported before group.
We vote for Best Speaker, Table Topics, and Evaluator. Timer counts
ballots and casts tie-breaker. Missing target time is DQ for voting.
Club culture is that all members will fill out short evaluation forms for
speakers in addition to assigned evaluator.
Actually that is the fun and interesting part of visiting other clubs
especially in other citys to see what people do that is different - then
you can decide if it's better!
Dennis J. & Gloria A. Chada, St. Paul,MN
> ...NEVER ever observed a club wherein a joke (humorist, joke meister,
> etc..) person was regularly scheduled and had it come off good.
>
> position?
> -Bob
>
We assign Court Jester task, so joke is expected part of job and I would
say more than half the time it is successful. That includes my rather
lame efforts pulling down the curve!
Successful in this context means it gets a modest laugh and no one is
offended. I would say 10 per cent big laugh!
It is a skill, and I think it can be learned.
Just a thought
Causeurs Sussex Speakers
the introduction and the report at the end. As a lunch time club, we
combine grammarian, wordmaster, ah counter, and so on into one role to
expedite matters. Here's the introduction:
Toastmasters and welcome guests
The grammarian sits, but never rests
Good speakers follow certain laws
But chief of these, no ums or ahs
If you should err, I'll ring this chime
So you can note your speaking crime
I'll count mistakes up, one by one
And give the totals when we're done
I have one other role to play
To show the new word of the day
Say this word when you are able
And we will knock (knock) on the table
(word is shown at front -- "crystallize")
Snow forms high up in the skies
When flakes take shape, they crystallize
The process is called nucleation
It's water, dust, and condensation
Each flake gets a certain shape
Column, dendrite, star, or plate
Every time six sides will grow
Thanks to the shape of H-2-0
So when you speak, and up you rise
I hope your thoughts will crystallize
Clear form and shape in every phrase
And structure that will earn our praise
We'll get your point, and hey, no fibbin'
You might get the Best Speaker ribbon
I hope this rhyme was no disaster
Thank you all -- Mr. Toastmaster
Dan Goodman
Paul,MN <chad...@infi.net> wrote:
>>
>> It is fascinating to me to see how functions are distributed.
>>
>> Joy Gaylord, ATM
>>
>>
>>
>
>Joy,
>
>We have one person do both Grammarian and Court Jester.
>
>Grammarian does Word, tracks good and bad verbiage. Court Jester does
>one joke early in agenda. We do a tipster, which is a 2 minute training
>speech.
>
>We do not have AH counter function. We will count if requested, but it
>is never reported before group.
>
>We vote for Best Speaker, Table Topics, and Evaluator. Timer counts
>ballots and casts tie-breaker. Missing target time is DQ for voting.
>
>Club culture is that all members will fill out short evaluation forms for
>speakers in addition to assigned evaluator.
>
>Actually that is the fun and interesting part of visiting other clubs
>especially in other citys to see what people do that is different - then
>you can decide if it's better!
>
Any two groups within the same organization will have differences.
Not surprising -- except that it tends to happen even when almost all
the members of one are members of the other.
Yoj
news:ZSHc7.25131$Ok5.4...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
You get my vote for Best Grammarian intro! ;-)
Joy
Regina Litman
>
> I'm certainly amazed at all the variations. I have never..."never"
> ...NEVER ever observed a club wherein a joke (humorist, joke meister,
> etc..) person was regularly scheduled and had it come off good. Humor
> is such a person thing. I think its easier to be offended by a joke
> than a radical speech denouncing you and your kind.
>
> Anyone else know of clubs where a joke meister is a successful
> position?
I don't know what we're doing, but in our club, it's almost always
successful. One thing I've noticed, though, is that people often get
their jokes off the Internet, whether it's a humor web site or an email
that someone has sent them (or maybe even a humor newsgroup). I don't
always get my jokes from there. I have made up at least three of the
ones I've used over the years. I also remember bringing in something I
had clipped from a newspaper. Now, some folks think that the Internet
has replaced newspapers in many ways, and it could be argued that
clipping something from a newspaper on February 16, 1993, is the
equivalent of going to a web site for source material today. That's
true in a sense, but this was something I happened to come across and
thought would be funny to look back on later. I didn't go off on a
desperate online search of humor sites for it the morning of the day I
was supposed to be Humormaster. Although I won't rule out going off on
such desperate searches in the future!
Last year, earlier in the day of our Toastmasters meeting I happened to
see something humorous and timely on a web site I had visited for
another reason. I was not scheduled to be Humormaster that evening, but
I decided to print it out and bring it with me in case we needed a
fill-in for that role. And as things turned out, we did need a fill-in,
so that's what our humor was that night, and it went over well.
When we've had a no-show in that spot, we've had some good success in
people coming up with off-the-cuff humor. I visited another club
recently in which the Humormaster was a no-show. They asked for
volunteers, and since I knew that no one there had heard any of the
three made-up jokes I referred to in the first paragraph of my reply, I
raised my hand to volunteer. Another person, a club member, was chosen,
probably for the very correct reason that club members, not the visiting
Area Governor, should be given priority for meeting roles. I will say,
though, that I think my jokes were better than this person's. Maybe
I'll have a chance to do them again.
Rick.C...@worldnet.att.net
> Robert Hewett wrote:
> >
> > I'm certainly amazed at all the variations. I have never..."never"
> > ...NEVER ever observed a club wherein a joke (humorist, joke meister,
> > etc..) person was regularly scheduled and had it come off good.
> > Anyone else know of clubs where a joke meister is a successful
> > position?
>
> I don't know what we're doing, but in our club, it's almost always
> successful.
Maybe I'm easily amused, but in the three clubs I've belonged to the joke
usually comes of well. If you define successful as everyone is rolling on the
floor laughing, not many people will be successful. If you define successful
as it at least brings a smile to most of the people, most people will do well.
Leaning how to select and tell a joke is like anything else in Toastmasters,
we learn by practicing.
> One thing I've noticed, though, is that people often get
> their jokes off the Internet, whether it's a humor web site or an email
> that someone has sent them (or maybe even a humor newsgroup). I don't
> always get my jokes from there. I have made up at least three of the
> ones I've used over the years. I also remember bringing in something I
> had clipped from a newspaper. Now, some folks think that the Internet
> has replaced newspapers in many ways, and it could be argued that
> clipping something from a newspaper on February 16, 1993, is the
> equivalent of going to a web site for source material today.
In the order of frequency, the sources that are used in our club are:
1. The internet
2. _The_Reader's_Digest_
3. Jokes told live by friends
4. Real life situations
5. The paper (mostly stupid crook stories)
> I didn't go off on a
> desperate online search of humor sites for it the morning of the day I
> was supposed to be Humormaster. Although I won't rule out going off on
> such desperate searches in the future!
I save a copy of jokes I like when I see them. I have an e-mail folder for
jokes. I just drag the once I like in to it. I look though them when I need
a joke. I also keep some on my Palm Pilot. I need to replace some of those,
because it's taking me to long to find one when I need one. "Bob couldn't
make it today, does anyone have a joke?"
One interesting thing about jokes on the Internet. Since my father has
discovered e-mail, I've discovered that he has a sense of humor. (Even if
I've seen many of the jokes 10 years ago in rec.humor.funny.)
--
Rick Clements, AbleTM-S, CL
President, Daylighters Toastmasters
Rick.C...@worldnet.att.net
http://www.geocities.com/rick_clements/tm.htm
http://www.geocities.com/rick_clements/
Moira de Swardt
Yoj <jgay...@att.net> wrote in message
> One of my clubs has someone assigned for this position at each
meeting. I'd
> say it's successful at least 75% of the time. The President of
the other
> usually asks if anyone has a joke. I'd say these are successful
20% of the
> time.
The art of telling a joke is a fine one. Toastmasters should learn
it, even if we have to work at it.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
{USER_FIRSTNAME} {USER_LASTNAME}
> I'm certainly amazed at all the variations. I have never..."never"
...NEVER ever observed a club wherein a joke (humorist, joke meister, etc..)
person was regularly scheduled and had it come off good. Humor is such a
person thing. I think its easier to be offended by a joke than a radical
speech denouncing you and your kind.
> Anyone else know of clubs where a joke meister is a successful position?
Toastmaster Hewett, for my club, Windsor Toastmasters, as the new
VP-Education, I moved the Jokemaster position from after the business
meeting to a position after the last Table Topics. While the club is voting
for the Best Table Topic Speaker (who will receive the "Bull Slinger Award,"
a small trophy with a man throwing a bull over his head), the Jokemaster is
introduced, and gives the Joke of the Week. The reason for the move was
because our Table Topics Master was forced to kill time until the votes were
counted and the winning certificate signed. With the introduction of the
Jokemaster, we have had that "dead time" eliminated, and the award (and
certificate) are ready to be presented after the Jokemaster is excused from
the lectern.
David Brooks, World Champion of Public Speaking 1990, DTM, recommends
that anyone who seriously wants to compete in the International Speech
Contest look at competing in the Humorous Speech Contest. He believes that
if you can move people to laugh, you can move them anywhere.
Being the Jokemaster is one of the most difficult positions to master.
It requires that you learn how to use humor, how to know where to put the
pause in your presentation for timing, and you get INSTANT feedback from the
entire club. Talk about a tough evaluator! Jock Elliott, to paraphrase his
presentation from the 1999 International Convention in Chicago, stated that
Carl Lewis, who won 9 gold medals, did not run sub-10 second sprints on the
first try. He had to practice. The same is true with humor. It takes
practice to roll a funny line.
Besides some of the locations mentioned in other posts, David Brooks,
from his presentation at the Toronto Conference in 1993 (no, I was not
there, but I bought the tape) states that humor is just finding something
that tickles you and then learning to rely it to others. As an example, in
the elevators of the hotel where the conference was being held, he found
something humorous about one of the elevators.
In one elevator, etched in brass, the Lower Level (LL) took you to the
"Pool and Beauty Saloon." In the other elevator, LL would take you to the
"Pool and Beauty Salon."
Just a thought,
Rudy Moralez, Jr., ATM-B/CL
VP-Education, Windsor Toastmasters (#6416-28)
Roseville, MI
Robert Hewett
it. I've just never been a part of a TM club where the regular role of
humorist, joke meister, what have you continued to serve a valued
service. Usually it degrades and very stupid jokes are told and the
audience begins to associate this role as unimportant.
The example of Carl Lewis - I guess most speakers are like most
runners - unable to even come close to matching Carl Lewis - no matter
their effort. Most runners - and I don't mean those who don't run,
just like most speakers, will become slightly funnier - but not
advance to becoming the Carl Lewis of humor.
not everyone who gave as much effort would
John Fleming, DTM
agitated dementia, Robert Hewett <RHE...@kscable.com>
wrote:
> -- $I'd agree that humor may require work and perhaps the effort is worth
> -- $it. I've just never been a part of a TM club where the regular role of
> -- $humorist, joke meister, what have you continued to serve a valued
> -- $service. Usually it degrades and very stupid jokes are told and the
> -- $audience begins to associate this role as unimportant.
In my own personal experience with Jokemaster, to do the
role well requires an awful lot of work.
I have a thick file folder (and I mean thick), filled with
jokes I've picked up along the way.
When I first started building the file, I used to go through
the Fidonet Funny group where people were posting anywhere
from 50 to 100 jokes per day.
Out of every 100 to 200 jokes, I'd find one or maybe two I
thought were worht keeping, and cull the remaining 99 to
199.
Result is, I developed a reputaion for being a person who
could do a really good job with the Jokemaster role.
I suspect that a lot of people who fill the role quickly
grab something from the bottom of a Readers Digest article
and it shows. (No offense to Readers Digest--I've snipped a
few jokes from there too, with the same keep/ cull rule I
used with Fidonet.)
Of all the minor roles, this is perhaps one of the most
difficult to do well, and to do it takes a lot of ongoing
effott. But the effort is worth it.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters, Member
Chamber Toastmasters, Member
Edmonton, Alberta
email: joh...@nice.ab.ca (nice should be ecn, remove 'gh')
web pages: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/6070
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~johnf
- Only if you have been in the deepest valley can you
ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest
mountain.
R.M.Nixon 1913-1994
This message may be freely copied, distributed, or
otherwise be retransmitted.
JohnB
> In my own personal experience with Jokemaster, to do the
> role well requires an awful lot of work.
> Of all the minor roles, this is perhaps one of the most
> difficult to do well, and to do it takes a lot of ongoing
> effott. But the effort is worth it.
I agree. With four of my five experiences with this role, I chose to
create something original - a two minute mini-speech. Two of those
employed visual aids. The total time I spent on writing, creating
graphics and practice for each of those two-minute bits was about
eight hours. It was well worth it for me and the audience seemed to
enjoy those pieces.
John Boxmeyer
Janis Robinson
that it helps fill up the time (along with Tabletopics) for the evaluators
to complete their review of the speeches, but we let the person assigned to
the position decide how they will fill in their 3 minutes. They can tell a
joke, recite a poem, read part of a story, do a book report, vent their
frustrations (never used so far), tell about a current event -- whatever
they want. It has worked out very well because it allows each individual to
do something they feel comfortable doing. We have a couple of master
jokemasters in the club but not everyone can do it well. We have others who
can recite poetry or read stories incredibly well. Something for everyone.
Janis G. Robinson, ATM-S
UT Toastmasters, Club 7650
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