rochester.rr blacklisted
Douglas D. Anderson
stating rochester.rr.com's smtp servers are listed with dsbl.org as being sources of
spam. Is it possible this is actually a hostile denial of service due to competition
between AOL/Time-Warner and Global Crossing? If so, should the ftc and/or
other government agencies be notified?
Douglas D. Anderson
"Bill Gandy" <briarw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iouuau0hsqr3de3ie...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:20:22 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> <d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote:
>
> >Yesterday email sent to a frontiernet.net (global crossing) customer was bounced,
> >stating rochester.rr.com's smtp servers are listed with dsbl.org as being sources of
> >spam. Is it possible this is actually a hostile denial of service due to competition
> >between AOL/Time-Warner and Global Crossing?
>
>
> >If so, should the ftc and/or other government agencies be notified?
>
>
> Bill
You sound like a real expert.... hopefully some non-moron will have some useful
information.
Douglas D. Anderson
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:20:22 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
>
Probably just masturbate in your coffee, but that's the American way.
Douglas D. Anderson
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:58:20 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> <d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bill Gandy" <briarw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:iouuau0hsqr3de3ie...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:20:22 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> >> <d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yesterday email sent to a frontiernet.net (global crossing) customer was bounced,
> >> >stating rochester.rr.com's smtp servers are listed with dsbl.org as being sources of
> >> >spam. Is it possible this is actually a hostile denial of service due to competition
> >> >between AOL/Time-Warner and Global Crossing?
> >>
> >> No. It's almost certainly exactly what it says.
> >>
> >> >If so, should the ftc and/or other government agencies be notified?
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >
> >You sound like a real expert.... hopefully some non-moron will have some useful
> >information.
>
> You might want to start here http://dsbl.org/faq.html and come back
> only if you still have questions. Was that non-moronic and useful
> enough?
>
> Bill
Actually I was interested in more useful than that- I actually did check that
out, and also the fact that dsbl.org is hosted by some two-bit nobody ISP
in Puerto Rico that does its own blacklisting.... I think if I owned Global
Crossing I could set up all the obscure two-bit servers in third world countries
I wanted to. I'm suggesting that Global Crossing/Frontiernet is pulling a fast
one blocking AOL/Time Warner email, on the basis of some total BS blacklist
they may have even set up themselves. Right now some pot smoking P.R. is
cashing his paycheck from the CEO of gblx.
Eddie Torres
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:l83vau86c5a2cem8f4ahdnoi5ig2cb8j9e@news-server...
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:01:31 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> <d...@rr.rochester.com> scribbled:
>
> >
> >"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote
> >> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:20:22 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> >> <d...@rr.rochester.com> scribbled:
> >>
> >> >Yesterday email sent to a frontiernet.net (global crossing) customer
was bounced,
> >> >stating rochester.rr.com's smtp servers are listed with dsbl.org as
being sources of
> >> >spam. Is it possible this is actually a hostile denial of service due
to competition
> >> >between AOL/Time-Warner and Global Crossing? If so, should the ftc
and/or
> >> >other government agencies be notified?
> >>
> >> And what would the FTC and 'other government agencies' do?
> >>
> >
> >Probably just masturbate in your coffee, but that's the American way.
>
> Aww, you can't answer my question? Why not? It wasn't all that
> complex, give it a shot:
> "And what would the FTC and 'other government agencies' do?"
>
> --
> "You cain't kill a snowman with bullets..." - Some dumbass
> drunken redneck who managed to shoot himself in the leg
> while attempting to kill a snowman in his front yard.
Don Voorhees
> > You might want to start here http://dsbl.org/faq.html and come back
> > only if you still have questions. Was that non-moronic and useful
> > enough?
> >
> > Bill
>
> Actually I was interested in more useful than that- I actually did check that
> out, and also the fact that dsbl.org is hosted by some two-bit nobody ISP
> in Puerto Rico that does its own blacklisting.... I think if I owned Global
> Crossing I could set up all the obscure two-bit servers in third world countries
> I wanted to. I'm suggesting that Global Crossing/Frontiernet is pulling a fast
> one blocking AOL/Time Warner email, on the basis of some total BS blacklist
> they may have even set up themselves. Right now some pot smoking P.R. is
> cashing his paycheck from the CEO of gblx.
>
If you're going to invent conspiracy theories, at least try to get *some*
of the facts right. The www.dsbl.org website is registered to, and
maintained by Linux MM, a division of Conectiva, Inc., located in
Curitiba, Parana, Brazil, not Puerto Rico. Conectiva is a Linux program
development company with several hundred employees. Conectiva Linux is
distributed throughout Latin America.
Penguin Hosting, LLC, that hosts the www.dsbl.org website, is owned by
Ian Gulliver, and is located in Ghent, NY, USA. Penguin specializes in
(*surprise*) Linux based hosting and DNS services.
Next "theory"?
Don
Domain Name: DSBL.ORG
Registrar: DOTSTER, INC.
Whois Server: whois.dotster.com
Referral URL: http://www.dotster.com/help/whois
Name Server: B.NS.PENGUINHOSTING.NET
Name Server: A.NS.PENGUINHOSTING.NET
Name Server: C.NS.PENGUINHOSTING.NET
Updated Date: 03-apr-2002
>>> Last update of whois database: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 16:55:11 EST <<<
Registrant:
Linux MM, c/o Conectiva Inc.
R. Tocantins 89
Cristo Rei
80050430, Curitiba PR
BR
Registrar: Dotster (http://www.dotster.com)
Domain Name: DSBL.ORG
Created on: 22-MAR-02
Expires on: 22-MAR-07
Last Updated on: 22-MAR-02
Administrative Contact:
van Riel, Rik ri...@conectiva.com.br
Linux MM, c/o Conectiva Inc.
R. Tocantins 89
Cristo Rei
80050430, Curitiba PR
BR
+55 41 360 2600
Technical Contact:
van Riel, Rik ri...@conectiva.com.br
Linux MM, c/o Conectiva Inc.
R. Tocantins 89
Cristo Rei
80050430, Curitiba PR
BR
+55 41 360 2600
Dave
Dave
p.s and my dog does eat "black helicopters" LOL
Dave
Don Voorhees
Strangely enough, as I'm typing this, a "black" helicopter flew over. Of
course it's night time so they all look black anyway, but I may need to
borrow your dog if it happens again... :-)
Don
Dave dipped a pen in the inkwell and wrote...
L. G.
Dave's dog can hear them though. ACME must have forgoten about a dog's
superior hearing when designing those second generation silenced
rotors and engines.
On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:31:54 -0500, Don Voorhees <ab...@12078.net>
wrote:
>Dave, it took longer to write my post than it did to do the research.
>
>Strangely enough, as I'm typing this, a "black" helicopter flew over. Of
>course it's night time so they all look black anyway, but I may need to
>borrow your dog if it happens again... :-)
>
>Don
>
>Dave dipped a pen in the inkwell and wrote...
>> Don.... you are good... you always come up with a good and knowlegeble answer!
>> Dave
>> p.s and my dog does eat "black helicopters" LOL
>> Dave
>>
--
Larry Gamache
Don Voorhees
silent ones, Larry. Very, very, worried now... I have Frontier's phone
service...
Don
L. G. dipped a pen in the inkwell and wrote...
George Henry
: "-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote
the American way is *always* better than the *other* way. if you don't
like it here you can always move to there and fuck your goats just like
your neighbors do.
--
g
jen or dan
"Jim Higgins" <UseAddr...@pandora.orbl.org> wrote in message
news:5mq0bug0o4pbkp2dl...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:22:17 GMT, in
> <JqLr8.23832$hq2.6...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>, "Douglas D.> >news:bkvuau83fbrj34d7l...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> LOL Did you by chance go to dsbl.org and check it out for yourself?
> >> You might want to start here http://dsbl.org/faq.html and come back
> >> only if you still have questions. Was that non-moronic and useful
> >> enough?
> >
that
> >out, and also the fact that dsbl.org is hosted by some two-bit nobody ISP
> >in Puerto Rico that does its own blacklisting.... I think if I owned
Global
> >Crossing I could set up all the obscure two-bit servers in third world
countries
> >I wanted to. I'm suggesting that Global Crossing/Frontiernet is pulling a
fast
> >one blocking AOL/Time Warner email, on the basis of some total BS
blacklist
> >they may have even set up themselves. Right now some pot smoking P.R. is
> >cashing his paycheck from the CEO of gblx.
>
>
> Global Crossing is in deep, deep financial trouble and is a major
> spammers' haven itself so I can't imagine what they're up to. I
> imagine most of the rr.rochester problem can be explained by the
> way the DSBL works.
>
> About the DSBL - for those who will add to this thread without
> bothering to go to the DSBL site and read up on it. This thing
> lists any server that delivers mail to a specific mail address in
> a specific format. Any of us, as RoadRunner users, could send
> such mail through our local RR SMTP server and get it listed in
> the DSBL. It is a listing service that is prone to severe abuse
> by immature people with an agenda. If this abuse keeps up, DSBL
> will prove to be as severe an abuse as the spam it seeks to stop.
> Hopefully those "mirroring" the DSBL list will soon stop doing so
> until the abuse issues are resolved. They didn't believe it
> would happen, but as I fully expected, it has.
>
> But don't just take my word about Global Crossing or the DSBL, go
> to http://www.google.com and click on the Groups tab then search
> on "Global Crossing spam" and also search on "DSBL". There's
> more than ample information there to discover who the bad guys
> are here.
>
> --
> Jim Higgins, quasimodo AT yahoo DOT com
> icbm: 33.55.34N, 80.24.21W
Douglas D. Anderson
"Eddie Torres" <vel...@veloct.net> wrote
> What I don't get is how Puerto Rico is a 3rd world country?
Okay. 4th world country.... periodically Puerto Rico is given the
opportunity to become a State, and they vote against it. The reason
is simple. As it is now, they can get welfare, grants, aide, from the
U.S. and not pay tax... heh.... if they became a State, they would
have to pay taxes. If they became independent, they would go
back to living in thatched peon huts that blow over every time a
hurricane goes through. It's obviously a parasitic relationship that
the U.S. only puts up with because Puerto Rico is in a strategic
location for the military.
Douglas D. Anderson
"Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1719a895e...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> I'm not sure that this one wasn't a decoy to keep me from noticing the
> silent ones, Larry. Very, very, worried now... I have Frontier's phone
> service...
>
> Don
>
Frontier telephone was bought by Citizens Communication. But the
internet service is still Global Crossing. And this is no "Black Helicopter"
paranoid fantasy- a similar event happened several years ago in a big
internet territorial war, when one commercial provider was not letting
the email of another provider through... I don't recall who at the moment,
that's irrelevant, but on the scale of such as Sprint, AOL, AT&T etc.,
not small fish... the idea of Global Crossing blocking email from Time-Warner
because of spam is so preposterous, it just reeks of territorial warfare,
global crossing, as some other poster to this thread noted, is one of the
biggest providers of spam going.
And talk about paranoid fantasies, a very large percentage of Linux users
have the fantasy that Bill Gates is Satan incarnate and his hordes of demons
are out taking over the world. So the fact that dsbl.org is in Brazil or P.R.
and is run by some Linux group is moot, the idea that one of the biggest
spammers in the world, Global Crossing, would block Time-Warner email
on the basis of some self-aggrandizing Linux group using a Latin American
bait-and-shoot server, is preposterous, to say the least.
Douglas D. Anderson
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:52:47 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
> <d...@rr.rochester.com> scribbled:
>
> >
> haven't answered my question.
>
Not a bigot at all, I just hold facts and truth superior to political
correctness.
Ian Gulliver
> > bothering to go to the DSBL site and read up on it. This thing
> > lists any server that delivers mail to a specific mail address in
> > a specific format. Any of us, as RoadRunner users, could send
> > such mail through our local RR SMTP server and get it listed in
> > the DSBL. It is a listing service that is prone to severe abuse
> > by immature people with an agenda. If this abuse keeps up, DSBL
> > will prove to be as severe an abuse as the spam it seeks to stop.
> > Hopefully those "mirroring" the DSBL list will soon stop doing so
> > until the abuse issues are resolved. They didn't believe it
> > would happen, but as I fully expected, it has.
Perhaps you should go to the DSBL site and read up on it. The list in
question (list.dsbl.org) only accepts submissions from trusted testers
of which there are currently only 3, none of which are even on
RoadRunner. Had you also bothered to check RoadRunner's mail server's
outgoing IP addresses, you would see that the listings are legitimate.
They are due to multi-hop relay through insecure servers run by
RoadRunner customers that are using RoadRunner's main relays as
smarthosts. Why RoadRunner allows this type of abuse to continue
unchecked is beyond me.
Ian Gulliver
Penguin Hosting
Douglas D. Anderson
"Ian Gulliver" <i...@penguinhosting.net> wrote
Not only did I check out roadrunner's smtp server numbers, which are of
course listed, but also checked the original "test" message which triggered
the listing. This is a matter of "can't see the forest for the trees"... the issue
is not if roadrunner is actually listed there, it is, what is the level of "authority"
of some self-appointed vigilante Linux group, and why would Global Crossing,
one of the biggest and most established spammers in the world, justify blocking
email from one of their biggest competitors for high-speed internet access, on
the basis of that.
Don Voorhees
I'm well aware that Citizen's bought Frontier, Doug. On my end, only the
name changed, since I already had Citizen's phone service.
These black list problems happen all the time with one ISP or another
being listed, either mistakenly or rightfully. The UCE/open relay lists
are not forced on any ISP. It is their decision whether to use a
particular list or not, as well as whether to use all of the entries.
Hotmail, AOL, MSN, and various RR regions have all been on one list or
another at times, as has Global Crossing. BTW, rochester.rr.com is also
currently listed on the XBL list. I use lists from DSBL, ORDB, VISI, XBL,
and SpamCop, on my corporate mail filters, but I do review the entries
and remove those I feel are too restrictive. The likely scenario is that
Global is simply importing the lists without reviewing them, as do many
ISP's. I fail to see what ccompetitive advantage Global would gain by
blocking Rochester RR mail. It seems to me, all they would accomplish
would be to irritate their own subscribers.
Don
Don Voorhees
>
> Perhaps you should go to the DSBL site and read up on it. The list in
> question (list.dsbl.org) only accepts submissions from trusted testers
> of which there are currently only 3, none of which are even on
> RoadRunner. Had you also bothered to check RoadRunner's mail server's
> outgoing IP addresses, you would see that the listings are legitimate.
> They are due to multi-hop relay through insecure servers run by
> RoadRunner customers that are using RoadRunner's main relays as
> smarthosts. Why RoadRunner allows this type of abuse to continue
> unchecked is beyond me.
>
> Ian Gulliver
> Penguin Hosting
Ian, thank you for taking the time to post here. It's always good to see
the "other" side of an issue, especially when it's from such a
knowledgeable source.
Don
Don Voorhees
Doug, I still don't see what Global gains by blocking RR mail. As far as
the DSBL listing, it wouldn't be there if the open relays didn't exist.
The test message simply wouldn't go through. Is that all that much
different than the automated testing that the other open relay listing
sites use?
Don
P. Morris
"Douglas D. Anderson" <d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote in message
news:GwKr8.23816$hq2.6...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
Nope. See other thread in this group "Re: rr.com e-mail blackholed by
eatel.net via dsbl"