Adding newsgroup to RR list?
fc42
I send it to ne...@rr.com, but all I ever get is a robot response and the group is not added.
Is there a minimum requirement for the number of people who must request a group before it is considered?
Thanks for any info.
Agent_C
so far.
A_C
fc42
"Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
news:1lnx5rqv...@12078.net...
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard fc42
> mention:
>
> How long ago did you ask for it?
>
> Which group?
>
> --
> Don
--
I have requested 3-4 times - once a month. The group I was hoping to see
added is alt.binaries.tv.aus. Each time I request it I get an automated
response which says:
"Thank you for contacting Road Runner.
This e-mail address is used for requesting additions to the Road Runner news
services and for contact with Road Runner news peers only."
I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, if anything.
Thanks for the response.
fc42
No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message.
fc42
something special in the header? All I ever get is an automated response
of:
============
"Thank you for contacting Road Runner.
This e-mail address is used for requesting additions to the Road Runner news
services and for contact with Road Runner news peers only."
===========
I've been hoping they will add alt.binaries.tv.aus I've asked once
a month for the past 3-4 months, but nothing yet.
Thanks for the response.
--
fc42
"Agent_C" <Agent-C-h...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ol8h00psngiunmop8...@4ax.com...
fc42
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard fc42
> mention:
>
> > "Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
> > news:1lnx5rqv...@12078.net...
> >> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard
> >> fc42 mention:
> >>
> >>> How many people have to ask for a group to have it added? I've sent
> >>> a
> > request to get an existing, active group added to the list.
> >>>
> >>> I send it to ne...@rr.com, but all I ever get is a robot response
> >>> and the
> > group is not added.
> >>>
> >>> Is there a minimum requirement for the number of people who must
> >>> request
> > a group before it is considered?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any info.
> >>
> >> There is no specific minimum number as far I've seen...
> >>
> >> How long ago did you ask for it?
> >>
> >> Which group?
>
> see added is alt.binaries.tv.aus. Each time I request it I get an
> automated response which says:
>
> "Thank you for contacting Road Runner.
>
> This e-mail address is used for requesting additions to the Road Runner
> news services and for contact with Road Runner news peers only."
>
> I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, if anything.
>
>
> Have you refreshed your group list in OE? The group is already listed
> here in NYCAP.RR, but I don't have access to the KC list. Maybe someone
> else who does will check on it for us.
>
> --
> Don
================
I refreshed the group list using OE and another newsgroup reader, but I
still can't see that group in KC. Considering some of the strange groups
they do add, you'd think they could find space for this one! Apparently I
just don't know the magic words.
Thanks for checking for me.
--
fc42
Alex, I'll take "Things Only I Know" for $1,000.
Dan W
it's done within a day or 2.
_
(_) Daniel Warren, RPh
_______// Marion NY
(________) Clinical Pharmacist
\ / dwar...@rochester.rr.com
| Rx |
/______\
(________)
Jim Elbrecht
Since each area has their own news-feed & admin, you have to comply
with whatever *your* admin wants. Is there a roadrunner.rdc-kc.tech
or roadrunner.rdc-kc.usenet on your server? Try a post there to see
what your admin wants.
Ask on the tech group-- you might be in an area like nycap that is
fed by another area. So even if our newsadmin was posting to
roadrunner.roch.usenet, we can't see it. We just get the dead
roadrunner.nycap.usenet.
Several years ago & I don't know if it has changed, our 'new group'
requests were sent to postm...@nycap.rr.com . How's that for
fighting tradition.
Jim
Jim Elbrecht
-snip-
>We have a local webmaster here in Rochester NY. We ask him to add a group and
>it's done within a day or 2.
Where do you ask him? Link from website? Email?
roadrunner.roch.usenet?
Could you ask him if he could add the Rochester 'tech' groups to the
NYCAP feed? [we get our usenet through Rochester, but can read any
of the roadrunner.roch.* groups. ]
Also, when we go to the rr.Nycap homepage it always says that Usenet
is working fine-- because they have nothing to do with Usenet. It
just comes through Rochester. It would be nice to be able to go
directly to the horse's mouth. [Do your techs post to the internal
groups? ]
Jim
fc42
"Dan W" <gizm0m...@nospam.roch.xpx.ester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:cIbOb.7187$Fe1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
A big thank you to everyone here for the suggestions and support. It's nice
to know I wasn't just doing something wrong in my submission. I emailed
ne...@rr.com, but I noticed from the reply that it was always redirected to
ne...@va.rr.com. Today I received an email from a gentleman at RoadRunner in
VA which said:
*****
"Just wanted to drop you a note and let you know that I saw your post in
a.o-s.r. While this is not a "monitored" group by anyone at RR, there are
several of us that try and keep an eye on it for issues. I have created a
ticket with the Systems folks in KC to have your requested newsgroup added
(alt.binaries.tv.aus). This may take up to one week to occur, however it
should be there by next weekend (1/24).
I am also looking into streamlining the process of adding groups, as there
are some obvious problems with it."
*****
I've got my fingers crossed. My opinion of RR support just went back up a
notch or two. (When I e-mailed my local help desk about this a few weeks
ago, all they said was "Right address. I don't know how to help you.")
Thanks again, everyone.
fc42
fc42
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard fc42
> mention:
>
nice
> > to know I wasn't just doing something wrong in my submission. I emailed
> > ne...@rr.com, but I noticed from the reply that it was always redirected
to
> > ne...@va.rr.com. Today I received an email from a gentleman at
RoadRunner in
> > VA which said:
>
> Was the "nice gentleman" named Mathew Hanna? :-)
>
> --
> Don
=================
Yes, it was.
--
fc42
I'm in a class by myself. Everyone else graduated
Matthew Hanna
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hfjj00t9d9kibhfn47g8n8g1ktvngs9gs7@news-server...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:49:58 -0500, Don Voorhees <ab...@12078.net>
> scribbled:
>
> >Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard fc42
> >mention:
> >
> >> "Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
> >> news:11uv0d7tovsfr$.dlg@12078.net...
> >>> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard
fc42
> >>> mention:
> >>>
> >>>> A big thank you to everyone here for the suggestions and support.
It's
> >> nice
> >>>> to know I wasn't just doing something wrong in my submission. I
emailed
> >>>> ne...@rr.com, but I noticed from the reply that it was always
redirected
> >> to
> >>>> ne...@va.rr.com. Today I received an email from a gentleman at
> >> RoadRunner in
> >>>> VA which said:
> >>> [...]
> >>>
> >>> Was the "nice gentleman" named Mathew Hanna? :-)
> >
> >> Yes, it was.
> >
> >I thought it likely... :-)
> >
> >Matthew is one of the "good guys" at RR, and certainly goes the "extra
> >mile" whenever possible. We're lucky to have him dropping in here from
> >time to time.
>
> <smiles for the hidden camera>
>
> Hi Matt!
>
> --
> 'What Profiteth It A Kingdom If The Oxen Be Deflated?'
> Riddles II, v3
> - T. Pratchett
Hey Hawk......been a while.
Matthew Hanna
"Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
news:11uv0d7tovsfr$.dlg@12078.net...
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard fc42
> mention:
>
nice
> > to know I wasn't just doing something wrong in my submission. I emailed
> > ne...@rr.com, but I noticed from the reply that it was always redirected
to
> > ne...@va.rr.com. Today I received an email from a gentleman at
RoadRunner in
> > VA which said:
>
> Was the "nice gentleman" named Mathew Hanna? :-)
>
> Don
Hey Don.....how'ya been?
cHi
broken down and simplified - if you don't mind getting a bit crude/ugly
here:
Options:
1) Appease countless users by dropping binaries
2) Appease a handful of customer by keeping binaries
3) Exhaust a large mount of financial resources to upgrade or "fix" the
newsgroup situation, which may or may not fully resolve the problem
options 1 and 2 are more likely than 3, just from a business point of view.
What I would like someone to explain to me:
What are binaries truly used for?
If I get some good solid, legal, and useful suggestions, I might change my
mind about them, but all I know them as, are places where people get
material illegally. With that in my head, I wouldn't have a second thought
about suggesting to drop the binaries, but I'd like to make sure I have my
story straight rather than continue to be misinformed.
cHi
lawyer all they want, there is no case in this situation. Besides, if
someone is willing to pay for a lawyer, I'd highly suggest they do something
useful like pay for a premium NG provider ^_^ Some people think threats
will work, when in all actuality there is no logic to them...
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:dr8j00lk8bpt49sfqn1k9vgcghf0osis7p@news-server...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:06:54 GMT, "fc42" <fc...@kc.rr.com> scribbled:
>
> >*****
> >"Just wanted to drop you a note and let you know that I saw your post in
> >a.o-s.r. While this is not a "monitored" group by anyone at RR, there
are
> >several of us that try and keep an eye on it for issues.
>
> We ARE being watched! OOoOoOooOoo!
>
> Bet they're taking down the names of ALL those nice people
> threatening to call a lawyer over the usenet problems :)
Dan W
>gizm0m...@nospam.roch.xpx.ester.rr.com (Dan W) wrote:
>
>
>-snip-
>>We have a local webmaster here in Rochester NY. We ask him to add a group and
>
>>it's done within a day or 2.
>
>Where do you ask him? Link from website? Email?
>roadrunner.roch.usenet?
We have a local newsgroup rochester.roadrunner.feedback. He regular reads
that group. We post requests there. We also let him know about other on
going problems like the horrendous completion rate in teh binary groups that
is going on right now.
Dan W
Can you find out what's going on with the national newsfeed? It's really
terrible.
Dan W
>With all of the noise being generated about RR's poor Usenet
>performance, we can cross our fingers that he'll drop a suggestion in
>the Idea Box to drop all binary Usenet groups, thus freeing up
>tremendous resources that could be used for other things. ;)
>
Hey ther are a lot of people who use the binary groups. So maybe road runner
should drop everything else and just support binaries.
In other words, road runner needs to support the entire usenet feed, not just
selected portions.
Dan W
>In article <dr8j00lk8bpt49sfqn1k9vgcghf0osis7p@news-server>, -= Hawk =-
>Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.comsays...
>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:06:54 GMT, "fc42" <fc...@kc.rr.com> scribbled:
>
>And probably reporting these to the copyright owners of the pirated
> binaries.<G>
>
>
Guess RR will have to hire their own lawyer since they are making all those
binaries available on their usenet so they are facilitating an illegal action.
cHi
intelligent reply. I've got a link for you:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=appease
I'm sure it was a big word, but this will help.
The numbers were estimated from how many people post in a.o-s.r and in my
local boards requesting binaries to be removed, vs. the 1 to 2 people I've
seen upset about them being removed.
My simple point, which apparently was still too much for you:
If the binaries are used for illegal files only, why keep them?
Let me know when your testes drop and you go back to school, then I'll
consider you old enough and intelligent enough to warrant more attention.
Your maturity is still in question...
cHi
let me know in detail what the binaries are used for.
If it's a legit reason, I support keeping, but as of yet Hawk has shot his
mouth off and shown his arse, and I don't have another response. Please
help, thank you.
"Dan W" <gizm0m...@nospam.roch.xpx.ester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:X%vOb.16650$Fe1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
cHi
ignore your other ones.
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9t7l005iiugotl3l75l3og5u34fpgsrboo@news-server...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:35:00 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >this brings me back to my question, if you would be kind enough to please
> >let me know in detail what the binaries are used for.
>
> We covered this, they're used for binaries, hence the name. You
> ARE quite slow, aren't you?
I was not asking you. I can read "binaries," and obviously you can repeat
it, but you failed to answer the question. What I'm asking for - what is
their purpose. Let me break it down to smaller words for you. If you use
binaries, what do you specifically...no wait...too large...what does hawky
wawky use iddy widdy binary groups for? Do you have discussions...er..again
too large. Do you talky walky? Do you get any *legal* files? I'm waiting
for a non-asshat to tell me what legal files they get from the binaries.
This disqualifies you, Hawk - just a heads up.
>
> >If it's a legit reason, I support keeping, but as of yet Hawk has shot
his
> >mouth off and shown his arse, and I don't have another response. Please
> >help, thank you.
>
> Who gives a fuck where your support goes? Do you think you
> matter? Do you think RR is going to ASK you what you think
> about policy changes? Will you ever actually answer a question
> without pretending (and failing badly) to be superior?
>
I'm not pretending to be a superior - last I checked, everyone was entitled
to an opinion. I don't like your opinion or your attitude, but do I
admonish the fact that you have it? I don't know where you are, and I don't
particularly care, but I do live in a society where my vote counts, as do my
opinion as a subscriber. Everything adds up. If you have some sort of
complex, I suggest talking to a shrink.
Now, please continue your ignorant flames on the other thread, and leave
legit responses in this one. Thank you.
> >"Dan W" <gizm0m...@nospam.roch.xpx.ester.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:X%vOb.16650$Fe1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >> In article <jgkj00t7963s416i6...@4ax.com>, Bill G
> ><niobr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >With all of the noise being generated about RR's poor Usenet
> >> >performance, we can cross our fingers that he'll drop a suggestion in
> >> >the Idea Box to drop all binary Usenet groups, thus freeing up
> >> >tremendous resources that could be used for other things. ;)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hey ther are a lot of people who use the binary groups. So maybe road
> >runner
> >> should drop everything else and just support binaries.
> >>
> >> In other words, road runner needs to support the entire usenet feed,
not
> >just
> >> selected portions.
> >>
> >>
> >> _
> >> (_) Daniel Warren, RPh
> >> _______// Marion NY
> >> (________) Clinical Pharmacist
> >> \ / dwar...@rochester.rr.com
> >> | Rx |
> >> /______\
> >> (________)
> >>
> >
>
cHi
remarks. However, since you requested it and apparently become even more
sophomoric when you don't get your way, I will appease you in this matter:
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0d0l00tljh35nefg6hbhorrk36g7jimqn6@news-server...
> [It really helps if you QUOTE what you're replying to.]
>
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:44:36 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >This would be a difficult situation IMO for many people, but it can be
> >broken down and simplified - if you don't mind getting a bit crude/ugly
> >here:
>
> And don't forget imaginary!
>
> >Options:
> >
> >1) Appease countless users by dropping binaries
>
> How would 'countless' users be appeased by the removal of
> the binaries groups? What appeasement would this be?
> What mysterious region of your ass are you pulling this
> 'countless users' figure from? Why would they be appeased
> by the removal of the binaries groups?
>
It's been posted before, I assumed you were up to date. The binary groups
are used for files. You have not yet clarified what legal files you are
getting in binaries. Better yet, what binary groups are you subscribed to?
The only example I saw you give was VCD, which I'm sure the MPAA and
copyright laws prohibit unauthorized distribution, in any form. By removing
binaries, plenty of resources would be freed up to allow better retention
and server performance. This would appease a large amount of users by
improving the NG server performance. I'm sure you understand, please don't
prove me wrong.
> >2) Appease a handful of customer by keeping binaries
>
> Referencing above, what part of your ass are you pulling
> these imaginary figures from?
>
This is merely a visual reference from the vocal parties that have voiced
their rightful opinion to keep the binaries, vs. the ones that wish to
improve performance. This is the only basis currently available, please
share if you have more information.
> >3) Exhaust a large mount of financial resources to upgrade or "fix" the
> >newsgroup situation, which may or may not fully resolve the problem
>
> Who would this appease?
>
This would hopefully appease everyone, I apologize I was not clear for you.
> >options 1 and 2 are more likely than 3, just from a business point of
view.
> >What I would like someone to explain to me:
>
> Options 1 & 2 have no base in reality. You've arbitrarily decided that
> some made up number of people do and/or don't want something
> you, we discover further on in your missive, have absolutely NO
> knowledge of. Option 3 is unlikely since the majority of their users
> don't even know what usenet is.
>
Of course the options have a base in reality. You've gone and continued on
the same path you originally brought up, however, I have since then
clarified where the argument comes from. Furthermore, we can conclude you
have an inferiority complex, and need to vociferate your opinion in a crude
manner, thereby trying to make it seem as if your opinion and ideas are more
important than anyone else who posts here.
> >What are binaries truly used for?
>
> What are binaries used for? Uhh.... files maybe? Are you
> trying to ask something deeper here or are you just THAT
> clueless?
I'm trying to get someone to actually state what legitimate reason binaries
are used. You have still failed to do that. More specifically, what are
these files? Considering most posts I have seen on other newsgroups about
binaries are referring to some form of piracy, I find it ironic that they
are arguing about the performance. Let me refer you to a humorous article:
http://www.thetoque.com/020709/softwarepirate.htm. Swap out quality of
games, with quality of servers, and you have the current situation depicted
by mp3 and VCD pirates in binary groups.
>
> >If I get some good solid, legal, and useful suggestions, I might change
my
>
> Is it legal where you live to go fuck yourself? If so, consider it a
> solid and useful suggestion.
>
Excellent argument! I never though about how intelligent and powerful my
opinions would appear if I resorted to sophomoric and vulgar references!
This makes absolute perfect sense, I wish I would have thought of it sooner!
> >mind about them, but all I know them as, are places where people get
>
> Why should I or anyone else for that matter really care if YOUR
> mind is changed about anything? Does RR corporate make a
> habit of calling you in the middle of the night to make decisions
> for them regarding the running of their company? Do you imagine
> there's going to be a vote at sometime in the near future and
> your uninformed opinion might sway it in some way?
>
It does not matter if you do or do not care. I'm simply stating my mind in
a pleasant way. Apparently you find the need to attack that as some sort of
further power struggle. If you recall, we *are* subscribers to their
services. Whether or not they actually do anything about what we complain
about is moot, they still do care what we think about them. One bad
referral can lose many potential customers when information travels by word
of mouth, or posted on message boards and newsgroups. Once you get your wit
back, please be sure to remember that what we say and think about our
provider, as a customer, does in fact make a difference.
> >material illegally. With that in my head, I wouldn't have a second
thought
>
> With that in your head, and apparently little else...
>
I'll call the waaaaaambulence when you're through arguing anecdotes and
snips that imply intelligence factors. Weve already established you have an
inferiority complex.
> >about suggesting to drop the binaries, but I'd like to make sure I have
my
>
> See above, why should anyone care what you do or don't suggest
> on a matter you're completely clueless over?
>
Please see above and rethink your argument(s)
> >story straight rather than continue to be misinformed.
>
> If you're all up in arms and want to deny RR users the ability to
> possibly access illegal material you might as well suggest shutting
> down access to the web, blocking all the P2P ports, disabling any
> instant messaging software that allows file transfers, shutting
> down access to the IRC and FTP, oh yeah, and email, can't have
> people emailing things to each other that might be illegal.... hell
> we better just fucking close down the internet! NOW! Quick!
>
> Go play in web traffic.
You've missed the boat entirely. I'm not arguing the point of having access
to illegal material, but nobody, including your smei-intelligent self, has
given a legitimate response on what legal files are being transferred
through binary newsgroups. Please, answer this for me - it was all I was
asking. Your overreaction indicates you jumped to conclusions on the post.
Please read it again and come back when you are ready to respond with a
mature answer.
cHi
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:04:47 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >You really are an asshat, I was hoping it was just the one post, I try to
> >ignore your other ones.
>
> how to quote.
>
> >"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:9t7l005iiugotl3l75l3og5u34fpgsrboo@news-server...
> >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:35:00 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
> >>
> >> >this brings me back to my question, if you would be kind enough to
please
> >> >let me know in detail what the binaries are used for.
> >>
> >> We covered this, they're used for binaries, hence the name. You
> >> ARE quite slow, aren't you?
> >
> >I was not asking you. I can read "binaries," and obviously you can
repeat
>
My point was that I asked Dan, not you, yet you respond with horrible
drivel. I think *someone* is an attention whore...
>
> >it, but you failed to answer the question. What I'm asking for - what is
> >their purpose. Let me break it down to smaller words for you. If you
use
>
> Their purpose is for the posting of binary files. Haven't we
> already covered this three times now?
>
Ah, I wasn't clear enough. See my other post. I'm sure you've flamed that
one by now.
> >binaries, what do you specifically...no wait...too large...what does
hawky
> >wawky use iddy widdy binary groups for? Do you have
discussions...er..again
>
> I post and download binary files. You're not really good at
> this. Why would people have discussions in binary groups,
> that's what text groups are for. You're not grasping this
> simple concept very well.
>
> >too large. Do you talky walky? Do you get any *legal* files? I'm
waiting
>
> Define '*legal*' as it pertains to what you imagine the groups are for.
>
You're a smart boy, aren't you? Legal as in "does not violate any laws."
I'm sure I don't have to spell it out for you. Wait...maybe I do. mp3s,
certain games, and VCDs are illegal to transfer. International and local
copyright laws prohibit it. Is that clear enough for you yet?
> >for a non-asshat to tell me what legal files they get from the binaries.
> >This disqualifies you, Hawk - just a heads up.
>
> It's so cute when baby takes his first steps.
>
> >> >If it's a legit reason, I support keeping, but as of yet Hawk has shot
> >his
> >> >mouth off and shown his arse, and I don't have another response.
Please
> >> >help, thank you.
> >>
> >> Who gives a fuck where your support goes? Do you think you
> >> matter? Do you think RR is going to ASK you what you think
> >> about policy changes? Will you ever actually answer a question
> >> without pretending (and failing badly) to be superior?
> >>
> >I'm not pretending to be a superior - last I checked, everyone was
entitled
> >to an opinion. I don't like your opinion or your attitude, but do I
> >admonish the fact that you have it? I don't know where you are, and I
don't
> >particularly care, but I do live in a society where my vote counts, as do
my
> >opinion as a subscriber. Everything adds up. If you have some sort of
> >complex, I suggest talking to a shrink.
>
> You don't get to vote on Roadrunner policy changes, this isn't
> a democracy.
>
No, but my point in dictating how our opionion counts was referring to the
fact that RR would not be here if it were not for us. We always have a
choice, whether you like it or not. This was outlined in my other post as
well.
> >Now, please continue your ignorant flames on the other thread, and leave
> >legit responses in this one. Thank you.
>
> I'll let you know when I get around to taking your orders.
>
When that happens, it'll be a #4 supersized please.
Starlight
>I was not asking you. I can read "binaries," and obviously you can repeat
>it, but you failed to answer the question. What I'm asking for - what is
>their purpose. Let me break it down to smaller words for you. If you use
>binaries, what do you specifically...no wait...too large...what does hawky
>wawky use iddy widdy binary groups for? Do you have discussions...er..again
>too large. Do you talky walky? Do you get any *legal* files? I'm waiting
>for a non-asshat to tell me what legal files they get from the binaries.
>This disqualifies you, Hawk - just a heads up.
You've sunk to his level. I was hoping you'd be one of those that
don't. Oh well..... :(
cHi
news:vb2o00126tv9o8lde...@4ax.com...
You can say that again >_< I regained my composure in the other post, but
I'm still loopy oopy. damn.
cHi
because this is solely what you do? Regardless, the transfer of copyrighted
material is illegal. It's illegal to run me over with a car, even if I gave
you permission to. Images, sounds, and videos specifically created or
deemed free are fine - this was what I was getting at. Thank you for
finally giving me an answer.
There are differences between distribution of free material, and material
that is under copyright protection.
This was the answer I was looking for, an honest, legit answer detailing
what legal uses people have for binary files. It really wasn't so hard to
come up with, was it? You're pointing out the fact that I was generalizing,
which was true. The only legal use I could think of was for educational
research and such, but using newsgroups to transfer that information did not
make logical sense. There are many generalizations made when dealing with
mp3s and VCDs, but there is a real basis for that. I'd like to find out
what kind of statistics are being pulled - i.e. how many files in these
groups are truly free files, and how often they get distributed vs. the ones
protected by law.
According to your involvement in these newsgroups, would you be able to
estimate your thoughts on that?
"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sjhl005a8s3i25mr4eqq05ng3pi3m8ubli@news-server...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:37:10 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >VCDs are illegal to transfer.
>
> VCD is a media format, and in no way by itself
> can it be considered illegal in any manner. The
> same goes for any other type of media from
> GIF to JPEG to MP3.
>
> By that logic it should be illegal to sell a car that
> can exceed the speed limit since you KNOW
> someone, somewhere is going to use it to speed.
>
> Let's talk about MP3s a second. Quite a few bands,
> Phish, The Grateful Dead and others have NO
> problem with and even encourage their fans (some
> to the point of having exclusive taping sections set
> aside at concerts or even allowing people to take
> a patch right off the mixing board) to record their
> concerts these are being posted to usenet, they're
> not illegal.
Dave Kelsen
<snip>
> You've missed the boat entirely. I'm not arguing the point of having access
> to illegal material, but nobody, including your smei-intelligent self, has
> given a legitimate response on what legal files are being transferred
> through binary newsgroups. Please, answer this for me - it was all I was
> asking. Your overreaction indicates you jumped to conclusions on the post.
> Please read it again and come back when you are ready to respond with a
> mature answer.
Just in case this isn't a joke, let me point out to you that the answer
to your question is much closer to hand than spending the time and
energy you have done thus far. Look in a few newsgroups, if you
actually want an answer to your question.
People with hobbies -- motorcycles, gardening, photography, pornography,
karate, ... you get the picture, I hope -- post binaries in appropriate
(and inappropriate) newsgroups. Many, many of them are not violations
of anyone's copyrights, civil rights, or copylefts. Many of them are.
This is far too simple for anyone this far into the discussion not to
know, so I must conclude that you are either altogether disingenuous or
completely lazy, and in either case remarkably sanguine about exhibiting
your propensities here.
On the other hand, go screw yourself.
RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.
cHi
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:21 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> <large snips> Ok, let's try to be semi civil.....
>
I'm glad you have decided to do so.
> >The only example I saw you give was VCD, which I'm sure the MPAA and
> >copyright laws prohibit unauthorized distribution, in any form. By
removing
>
> So you're saying I can't make a VCD of say for example, a diving trip in
> Hawaii I took and post it to a newsgroup? What if my band wants to
> share their songs via MP3 for some exposure? Or say I create interesting
> wallpapers out of pictures I take with my digital camera?
>
No, I was unclear. I generalized VCDs because most VCDs that I have seen
referred to are not home videos (other than Tommy Lee / Pamela Anderson).
You've made a valid point with this, which I appreciate - in the VCD
group(s) that you subscribe to, how often would you say someone uploads a
home video such as your example? Free pictures are much more common,
therefore I did not include them in my query of illegal files.
> On the flip side I could make a VCD of the latest greatest movies out
> and upload them. I could Rip songs from my favorite CDs and upload
> them. Or take pictures from other people's sources and edit them into
> wallpapers.
>
This was what I was referring to, as I'm sure you understand.
> You're confusing the MEANS with the USE. People ARE using the binaries
> hierarchy legally. People are also using the binaries hierarchy for
> illegal matters.
>
Yes, I was confusing things, which was *why* I wanted clarification which,
for some reason, you refused to give until now. However, this was not how I
was confusing them. I merely wanted clarification, from personal opinions,
what each individual actually used the binary groups for. To answer that,
it would be as simple as "I use them to get new movies." I've no doubt that
people use them legally - this goes back to why I requested people reply
with *how* they use it legally. I wanted clarification for my own ideas,
rather than continue to be misinformed. This was mentioned in the original
post.
> >binaries, plenty of resources would be freed up to allow better retention
> >and server performance. This would appease a large amount of users by
> >improving the NG server performance. I'm sure you understand, please
don't
> >prove me wrong.
>
> Until those resources are allocated elsewhere or sold off since they'd
> no longer be needed. Do you think RR actually cares about usenet?
>
We've established that they do not, but they do care about their customers.
It's more than likely they will do nothing about the situation. Those
resources would not be sold off in the scenario, which is why it would
improve performance. That was the basis, as unlikely as it were.
> >further power struggle. If you recall, we *are* subscribers to their
> >services. Whether or not they actually do anything about what we
complain
> >about is moot, they still do care what we think about them. One bad
>
> No they don't. If they cared what we think about them there'd be
> better customer service. There'd be someone from RR monitoring
> this group in an official capacity. Etc.
>
Why are you trying to argue this? Of course they care what we think - in
this situation it appears you are confusing empathy with action. It won't
do us any good unless they take action, but our word of mouth is a very
powerful tool. I don't know why they don't have people "officially"
monitoring these newsgroups, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that
it wouldn't be cost-effective to hire people(s) to monitor a newsgroup
alone, and appointing people to check on the side either won't get the full
attention we deserve, or would require "too much effort" for honest help to
be given. It would definitely take some amount of effort to sort through
the flames and answer people in true need, and one that happens (since many
people munge their e-mail) the support or response would be directly in the
group. Upon an actual employee posting in the newsgroup, I would think they
would get many posts directly to them. (like Matthew Hanna). The means for
immediate support through a newsgroup is probably not the best either, just
better to pick up a phone and speak to whomever you can.
> >referral can lose many potential customers when information travels by
word
> >of mouth, or posted on message boards and newsgroups. Once you get your
wit
>
> The net's FULL of people bitching and whining about their providers, go
> look at the complaints racked up at DSLreports.com or view the archive
> of this group on Google. RR's not going to lose 'many' potential
> customers because you or anyone else decided to complain about their
> actions to someone.
>
Yes, up north due to word of mouth, the ISP I worked for became the largest
ISP in the western half of the state within 2 years (from a startup)due to
word of mouth from the main competitor we had, and good reports from our
user base. It does have an effect, whether or not you see it.
> >You've missed the boat entirely. I'm not arguing the point of having
access
> >to illegal material, but nobody, including your smei-intelligent self,
has
>
> I won't even make fun of you for trying to insult my intelligence and
> spelling "semi" wrong.
>
Yes =) I caught that too - gogo gadget hands!
> >given a legitimate response on what legal files are being transferred
> >through binary newsgroups.
>
> The answer is 'lots', 'some' or 'maybe a few'. One of the problems
> is your definition of 'legal' so let's postulate a set of questions for
> you:
My definition of legal? To not break the law? That's *the* definition of
legal...
>
> Can I legally tape a copy of a television show on my VCR?
> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> If your answer is no, explain.
> Can I share that tape with a friend who missed the episode?
> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> If your answer is no, explain.
It depends on what show was taped. Some shows give their explicit
permission to redistribute the material to anyone (rare), some shows give
permission to use in a classroom (more common), but many shows, at least in
the USA, have a disclaimer which you should be able to see during the
credits. When I can, I'll procure a copy of the text, but generally speaking
it states the show is for private use, and public viewing is not allowed.
I'll try to find the copyright info legislation as well, but I'm not sure
I'll be able to find the proper section anytime soon. Giving a tape of a
recorded show to someone, even to borrow, can fall under redistribution of
the copyright material, which is also prohibited. You *can* contact the
station that broadcasted the show and request permission, but I don't know
anyone who's actually complied with the law and done that.
> Can I share that tape with five friends who missed the episode?
> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> If your answer is no, explain.
no, see above.
> Can I digitize that tape and share it with ten thousand friends?
> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> If your answer is no, explain.
>
no, see above.
> At what point does something become illegal? And we haven't even
> touched on fair use, parody laws and the such.
>
Something becomes illegal when the law gets broken. Whether or not the law
gets enforced might be what you are thinking of. Go ahead and explain the
parody laws if you think it nullifies the argument at hand.
cHi
news:zFAOb.34556$873.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
I was eliciting responses from people that post here to see where *they*
specifically go. I could look up the newsgroups all I want, but if RR users
are not using them, would it do anything for the argument? Let's make it
more specific:
Do you subscribe to any of the newsgroups you listed? If so, which ones?
cHi
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 18:56:56 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >
> >"-= Hawk =-" <Ha...@Spam-Me-Not.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:55fl00dbbf4nb5gaieve0j3vqoichruq7d@news-server...
> >> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:24:21 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
> >>
> >> <large snips> Ok, let's try to be semi civil.....
> >>
> >I'm glad you have decided to do so.
> >
> >> >The only example I saw you give was VCD, which I'm sure the MPAA and
> >> >copyright laws prohibit unauthorized distribution, in any form. By
> >removing
> >>
> >> So you're saying I can't make a VCD of say for example, a diving trip
in
> >> Hawaii I took and post it to a newsgroup? What if my band wants to
> >> share their songs via MP3 for some exposure? Or say I create
interesting
> >> wallpapers out of pictures I take with my digital camera?
> >>
> >No, I was unclear. I generalized VCDs because most VCDs that I have seen
> >referred to are not home videos (other than Tommy Lee / Pamela Anderson).
> >You've made a valid point with this, which I appreciate - in the VCD
> >group(s) that you subscribe to, how often would you say someone uploads a
> >home video such as your example? Free pictures are much more common,
> >therefore I did not include them in my query of illegal files.
>
> sucks :)
I stand corrected =) I went and re-read it, I had assumed you subscribed to
the VCD groups, however, you stated you do not download 700MB VCDs. We all
know what assuming does...
>
> >> No they don't. If they cared what we think about them there'd be
> >> better customer service. There'd be someone from RR monitoring
> >> this group in an official capacity. Etc.
> >>
> >Why are you trying to argue this? Of course they care what we think - in
> >this situation it appears you are confusing empathy with action. It
won't
>
> Base on past experience. RR does as little as possible to suck
> the cash from your wallet. They completely ignore abuse, allow
> open proxies to run amok (surely you've seen the '[insert celebrities
> name here] Nude!' trojan packages being posted to hundreds if
> not thousands of newsgroups). If they cared what we thought
> they'd be asking us what we thought. They've even stopped
> sending out the 'satisfaction surveys' after phone calls for
> tech support. Probably because they were sick and tired of
> seeing all the "your techs are incompetent liars who don't
> know the 1st thing about a computer" responses.
>
I don't argue they are a cash hog, and although I don't have a stand on most
of what you said, as I have not experienced either way, the one thing I did
noticed was the satisfaction survey. Every time I call in, I get on. Every
single stinking time. I called in once and it was an outage, and I still
got a satisfaction survey...and then my gaming buddy gets none, and he's
called in twice as much as me. I have no idea how that system works.
> >> The net's FULL of people bitching and whining about their providers, go
> >> look at the complaints racked up at DSLreports.com or view the archive
> >> of this group on Google. RR's not going to lose 'many' potential
> >> customers because you or anyone else decided to complain about their
> >> actions to someone.
> >>
> >Yes, up north due to word of mouth, the ISP I worked for became the
largest
> >ISP in the western half of the state within 2 years (from a startup)due
to
> >word of mouth from the main competitor we had, and good reports from our
> >user base. It does have an effect, whether or not you see it.
>
> But that's comparing gigantic interstate companies to small peanut
> local operations.
>
True - it's on a much smaller scale, the principle of which holds true, and
that's about it. If it were able to apply to the current situation, we
could definitely make headway - but we have to start somewhere, why not
here?
> >> Can I legally tape a copy of a television show on my VCR?
> >> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> >> If your answer is no, explain.
> >> Can I share that tape with a friend who missed the episode?
> >> If your answer is yes, go on to the next question.
> >> If your answer is no, explain.
> >
> >It depends on what show was taped. Some shows give their explicit
>
> Any show, Seinfeld, MASH, Buffy the Wampyre Slut, what have you.
>
> >permission to redistribute the material to anyone (rare), some shows give
> >permission to use in a classroom (more common), but many shows, at least
in
> >the USA, have a disclaimer which you should be able to see during the
> >credits. When I can, I'll procure a copy of the text, but generally
speaking
> >it states the show is for private use, and public viewing is not allowed.
>
> I've seen it. But here we slide into the grey area of 'fair use'. It's
> not illegal for me to set up my VCR to tape the shows that air
> when I'm at work. It's also not illegal for me to give that tape to
> a friend to watch. So when does it become illegal? The same
> goes for music, I can make mix tapes off my favorite CDs for
> my friends under 'fair use' and it's not illegal, but I'm still giving
> them a copy of something they didn't buy.
>
Where does fair use state you can have the material exchange parties? Do
you have a reference I can peruse? This stuff interests me, especially with
it being interpreted in several different ways.
> >I'll try to find the copyright info legislation as well, but I'm not sure
> >I'll be able to find the proper section anytime soon. Giving a tape of a
>
> That's ok, I've got a friend who runs the largest 'photoshopping'
> contest site on the web who also is specializing in internet law
> in law school. We've covered these issues back and forth forever.
>
> >recorded show to someone, even to borrow, can fall under redistribution
of
> >the copyright material, which is also prohibited. You *can* contact the
>
> Nope, it falls under fair use. Now, I can't SELL it, or charge people
> to see it. I can't profit from or deny someone profit from their
> original material but to actually get a copyright violation into a
> courtroom the owner of the copyright has to show they lost monetary
> value.
>
> On to the 'private use no public viewing' we hit another slippery
> sloped grey area, nothing on usenet is being 'viewed' in public
> only the source of the material is available publicly people are
> viewing them privately in their own homes.
>
> >Something becomes illegal when the law gets broken. Whether or not the
law
> >gets enforced might be what you are thinking of. Go ahead and explain
the
>
> Nope, not what I'm saying. The problem is you're talking in
> black and white and our laws aren't written that way. There's
> so many holes in them it's amazing anyone gets arrested.
>
> >parody laws if you think it nullifies the argument at hand.
>
> I think I covered that in the post I just sent but....
> I can take an image of you, something you by law
> own the rights to, modify a certain percentage (again
> I forget what that %'age is) of the image so that it
> does not resemble the original to a large degree
> and call it mine. But the question of video taping,
> mix tapes, etc fall into the grey area of fair use.
>
>
I see, a very informative response and I greatly appreciate your insight.
You are right, I try to look at law in black in white - in a perfect world,
we wouldn't need to see it any other way, but in the world as we know it,
everything I presume is gray to a certain degree. Point taken, and much
more refined. Thanks!
cHi
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 18:33:16 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >Are you saying this because you know that somewhere it's happening, or
> >because this is solely what you do? Regardless, the transfer of
copyrighted
>
> legal to share? It happens in hundreds of groups thousands
> of times a day.
>
I see what you are saying - I'm trying to get specifics. I know that
"people" do it - just trying to see how many people post here that
specifically say "I do it." I could say "People everywhere smoke
cigarettes," but that doesn't mean that I do.
> >material is illegal. It's illegal to run me over with a car, even if I
gave
>
> That's another generalization that's false. Anything *I* create
> is copyrighted and I can transfer it. Phish's songs are copyrighted
> but they've given permission to share them.
>
Point taken. I'm not sure if I clarified on the legality of files deemed
free - but then again, I'm also trying to get a figure for the RR binary
users that get binary files on a regular basis, that are legal files.
> >you permission to. Images, sounds, and videos specifically created or
> >deemed free are fine - this was what I was getting at. Thank you for
> >finally giving me an answer.
> >There are differences between distribution of free material, and material
> >that is under copyright protection.
>
> Anything created by anyone is copyrighted under intellectual
> property laws. On top of that fair use and parody laws allow
> people to modify to a certain extent (I forget the percentage
> it's somewhere between 25 and 40%) any image and call it
> original artwork.
>
I see, although I was aware of these situations, I was not aware of the
percentages. I was, however, referring to works in whole - i.e. a full
song, etc.
> >This was the answer I was looking for, an honest, legit answer detailing
> >what legal uses people have for binary files. It really wasn't so hard
to
> >come up with, was it? You're pointing out the fact that I was
generalizing,
>
> Nope, but often it's just more fun to yank someone's chain
> to see what happens.
>
I see...one of those >_<
> >which was true. The only legal use I could think of was for educational
> >research and such, but using newsgroups to transfer that information did
not
> >make logical sense. There are many generalizations made when dealing
with
> >mp3s and VCDs, but there is a real basis for that. I'd like to find out
>
> But you can't blame the tool (image editor, file sharing app, usenet,
> email, web, etc) for how the user uses it.
>
I'm not really blaming the tool, which I think is part of the
misunderstanding. The tool is a big part of the argument in terms of
dropping it. Let's say there is a program, like photoshop, that is used
*only* for illegal purposes, even though it has legal uses. If it were
plausible to prove that *only* illegal uses for resulting from the program,
should that program be destroyed, or kept? There have been a few responses
giving examples of legal uses for the binary groups, but nobody has actually
said "I use the binary groups for legal, free files" etc. See what I mean?
> >what kind of statistics are being pulled - i.e. how many files in these
> >groups are truly free files, and how often they get distributed vs. the
ones
> >protected by law.
> >
> >According to your involvement in these newsgroups, would you be able to
> >estimate your thoughts on that?
>
> I wouldn't even try to guess.
>
Dang. Well, I personally have had a run-in with the RIAA - back in 98.
Back then, if you recall, mp3s were rampant. Half-truths were being
propigated about why it's ok to share the files and what-not. Even though
it was before the Napster explosion, it was a large "lifestyle," if you
will. They were traded freely and excessively, as long as you knew where to
go. Back then, legal MP3s were scarce, because the only artists willing to
give away free music were ones breaking into the business. Although the gap
since then has inevitably lessened, what with more and more artists using
free music as a powerful promotional tool, even known artists support them,
I would like a guess. It's a very lengthy, but interesting topic. Do you
have any suggestions, possiibly from your friend, on where I should go for
precise information?
Jim Elbrecht
-snip-
>
>We have a local newsgroup rochester.roadrunner.feedback. He regular reads
>that group. We post requests there. We also let him know about other on
>going problems like the horrendous completion rate in teh binary groups that
>is going on right now.
You are indeed fortunate. No NYCAP employees are apparently allowed
to post to NYCAP groups. [one did several years ago, but only for a
couple days-- and then all her posts were removed from the server.]
If you could take pity on your neighbors to the east, could you float
the idea that the NYCAP folks would love to be able to communicate
with him-- or any other appropriate employee. I don't know if there
is actually a nycap newsadmin, or if it all is controlled through
Rochester. From phone calls I get the idea that none of NYCAP folks
would know Usenet if it bit them.
We might have separate issues than the Roch folks-- so maybe if he
could just post [or monitor occasionally] - roadrunner.nycap.usenet,
an already existing, but essentially dead group.
Thanks,
Jim
Dave Kelsen
Bullshit. You were quite specific earlier. Your question was not
concerning what group of users are using binary groups to download
binaries. You asked insistently what binaries were used for, and very
specifically what legal use the binary groups were put to. The RR
userbase is a very wide, homogeneous group who use binaries for many
purposes. The downloading of binaries is performed by many people for
many reasons. The posting of same is done for other reasons. In each
instance, some of those reasons are legal. This is true both for usenet
in general, and for that subset of users who comprise RR.
In my case specifically, I find that I don't download much porn anymore
-- it's remarkably repetitious. Nor do I download much in the way of
MP3s, as (I must confess) I haven't had much interest in music made
after the first half of the seventies. On the other hand, I have
downloaded in the past a pretty fair amount of porn, and a lot of MP3s.
Whether such was illegal depends on the laws in place where I am, or
was. (In most cases, downloading it was not illegal, although in some
cases it would be illegal to view or listen to it subsequent to
downloading.) Further, I do check 2 newsgroups for MP3s from time to
time, and even occasionally download some porn. The problem there is
that the girls seem to be getting younger...
Before the servers went tango uniform, I *did* download a lot of books
on tape/disk, as I find it easier than going to my local library, and I
have been spending 3 hours a day in the car. In at least some of those
cases, the book(s) downloaded were not available at the library, and
there was a copyright violation at some point.
Is there anything else you'd like explained to you? Would you like to
make a glib comment respecting my (exquisitely appropriate) use of the
scatological term at the beginning of this missive, perhaps questioning
my intelligence or vocabulary?
Let me close by pointing out that your question is entirely irrelevant;
there's a reason that the major ISPs don't get in to (and don't wish to
get into) attempting to determine the legality of content.
RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
It takes at least one person cursing the darkness before someone has
sense enough to light a candle.
Matthew Hanna
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard
> you're still around to lend a hand here and there!
>
> I hope all is well with you and yours...
>
> --
> Don
Making do. Busy as ever at home, but I guess that's a good thing.
Bob McConnell
>this brings me back to my question, if you would be kind enough to please
>let me know in detail what the binaries are used for.
>
>If it's a legit reason, I support keeping, but as of yet Hawk has shot his
>mouth off and shown his arse, and I don't have another response. Please
>help, thank you.
>
From my short list of binary groups:
a.b.cd.image.linux Pretty obvious; for folks that don't have
reliable connections for large files.
a.b.freeware Yes, there are free programs out there that are not
available on open servers.
a.b.multimedia.rail Digitized movies of trains, taken by railfans.
i.e. posted by the copyright holders.
a.b.pictures.rail Pictures taken by railfans. Also posted by
copyright holders.
a.b.woodworking Pictures of workshops and projects under
construction or completed. Matching discussions are in
rec.woodworking, which doesn't allow binaries.
I believe that under the common carrier regulations, as long as TW
ignores all of the content, they are not responsible for any of it.
However, once they begin to notice and filter any of it, they are
responsible to screen all of it.
Bob McConnell
N2SPP
Richard Steiner
"cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> spake unto us, saying:
>Regardless, the transfer of copyrighted material is illegal.
Only if that copying is against the wishes of the copyright holder and
also isn't covered by some special case (like the Audio Home Recording
Act, which explicitly allows the copying of copyrighted material in
certain contexts regardless of the copyright holders wishes).
Keep in mind that shareware software is copyrighted, as is Linux and
related software, and yet its distribution is actively encouraged by
its authors (even via USENET and other similar methods).
>There are differences between distribution of free material, and material
>that is under copyright protection.
Even free (as in "gratis") material is still under copyright protection
unless explicitly stated to be in the Public Domain.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
See web site above for resume/CV and background.
Matthew Hanna
> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard
> Matthew Hanna mention:
>
> > "Don Voorhees" <ab...@12078.net> wrote in message
> > news:1s7sf7lhe58bk$.dlg@12078.net...
> >> Wandering aimlessly around alt.online-services.roadrunner, I heard
> >> Matthew Hanna mention:
>
> >>
> >> Doin' just fine up here in the frozen northeast, Matthew. Glad to see
> >> you're still around to lend a hand here and there!
> >>
> >> I hope all is well with you and yours...
>
> >
>
>
> --
> Don
hehehheheh....true.
cHi
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:20:09 GMT, "cHi" <c...@rushmore.com> scribbled:
>
> >True - it's on a much smaller scale, the principle of which holds true,
and
> >that's about it. If it were able to apply to the current situation, we
> >could definitely make headway - but we have to start somewhere, why not
> >here?
>
> subscriber has shown me. For the most part RR doesn't
> care about the users and even though people complain
> constantly there's always new subscribers and they haven't
> gone under.
>
I'm guessing because, naturally, enough of the user base doesn't take
action. I myself won't go to another provider in *my* area solely for
newsgroup service, simply because my experience with the other providers
available to me, which I have already tried, are actually *worse*...go
figure. However, if the rest of the service gets poor, I may opt for the
only option I haven't used yet, satellite. It's basically: RR really is
crap in the ng department, BUT, all my other areas of service function very
well. With the other ISPs, *everything* is horrible, the speed, the
reliability, the support for regular peon issues like resetting a
password...all bad. I've got another gaming buddy that has a cable ISP (I
think comcast, but I can't recall offhand) where RR does not have access -
he gets a consistent 10% packet loss, not just to game servers, but to
everywhere. The ISP has acknowledged his problem, but say they can't do
anything. I can't imagine having to deal with that every day...
> >Where does fair use state you can have the material exchange parties? Do
> >you have a reference I can peruse? This stuff interests me, especially
with
> >it being interpreted in several different ways.
>
> http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
> http://fairuse.stanford.edu/
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=fair+use+law
> Searched the web for fair use law. Results 1 - 100 of about 5,010,000.
>
> That aught to keep ya busy :)
>
>
Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
cHi
check the threads. Each time, after another vague response, I clarifed my
questioning further. This was the information I was after.
"Dave Kelsen" <kel...@elmore.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7%COb.34589$873.8...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
I'd like you to find the documentation that states downloading is fine as
long as you don't use it. All information I have seen points to the
contrary - any distribution or reception of copyrighted materials without
proper payment or legal consent violates the (black & white) law. I have
recently been advised of fair use law, which dictates a large gray area.
I'll be checking that out later today.
> Before the servers went tango uniform, I *did* download a lot of books
> on tape/disk, as I find it easier than going to my local library, and I
> have been spending 3 hours a day in the car. In at least some of those
> cases, the book(s) downloaded were not available at the library, and
> there was a copyright violation at some point.
>
> Is there anything else you'd like explained to you? Would you like to
> make a glib comment respecting my (exquisitely appropriate) use of the
> scatological term at the beginning of this missive, perhaps questioning
> my intelligence or vocabulary?
>
> Let me close by pointing out that your question is entirely irrelevant;
> there's a reason that the major ISPs don't get in to (and don't wish to
> get into) attempting to determine the legality of content.
>
The ISP is not getting into the legality of content, I am, out of my own
curiosity. ISPs generally advise that they are not and cannot be held
responsible for the content posted by the users - which is perfectly fine.
My intent is to see what use the user base actually has for the binary
groups. You yourself have admitted to illegal activity, that's fine - but
do you have legal activity as well that you frequent the binary groups for?
My point in this discussion is - if they are *only* being used by RR
customers for illegal activity, why keep them around? Keep in mind, that is
*only* being used for illegal activity.
cHi
news:c06m00lgnc6ahi5pi...@4ax.com...
Time Warner actually filters anything? I don't believe they do - I think
any mention of that has proven to be a rumor. That is a large amount of
groups to filter >_<
> Bob McConnell
> N2SPP
>