Custers Wife
Von Fourche
Well, since there is mostly spam on this news group I'll go ahead and
say this:
Custer's wife Libbie is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, when
looking at pictures of women from that era. Absolutely gorgeous. What
really surprises me is that she looks so good when just about all the
pictures I have ever seen from that time show the women and men like they
are half dead. Why she doesn't look that way I don't know. But Custer sure
picked a nice looking gale.
I would love to see a film focusing on Libbie in Washington D.C.,
partying with the big shots while Custer was fighting in the Civil War.
Maybe Jennifer Lopez as Libbie.
Also, I was just thinking, I would love to see a modern film made of the
Big Horn battle. Maybe from the perspective of Crazy Horse or something.
I'm sure with the CGI the way it is now, Hollywood could give us one cool
Big Horn Battle reproduction. And as long as any producer but Jerry
Bruckheimer does it, it might have half a shot of being good.
Bret81C
what an insult that would be. Only part JLo is good for is a dirty whore which
is what she is in real life
Greger Hoel
Right. Everyone knows that someone who's leading a promiscuous
lifestyle can't act for shit, right? Can you even separate real people
from movie characters anyway?
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
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Cham Pugh
gre...@spammersgetbent.net says...
>Right. Everyone knows that someone who's leading a promiscuous
>lifestyle can't act for shit, right?
And another point - was Custer's wife hispanic?
rgraham
post and riding across the country to see his wife?? He claimed there was a
out break of some sickness and he was worried. But also there was rumor some
officer was visiting his wife more than was thought good for the times.
Todd
Linda T can fill in the details as she is probably the most knowledgeable person here on
Custer.
--
Todd
To reply to me please remove "nospam" from my address ;-)
Linda Terrell
su...@dontemailme.com (Cham Pugh) wrote:
Not at all. Absolutely Caucasian.
LT
Linda Terrell
"Todd" <tsauve...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Yup, in 1866. He was in Kansas at the time.
>
> Linda T can fill in the details as she is probably the most knowledgeable
> person here on
> Custer.
That was his Frat Brat period. He may have had a few
core good reasons -- lack of orders coming through, a genuine fear of
typhoid at the posts. But mostly, he was really, really lonely and
very horny...
LT
Chris Mark
>Maybe Jennifer Lopez as Libbie.
>
>
I went and looked at some photos of Mrs. Custer. To me, she looks sort of like
Nicole Kidman.
A non-PC movie about the Custers could be quite interesting.
Who would you suggest for Custer? himself?
Chris Mark
Von Fourche
"Chris Mark" <xmar...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20041022171459...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Custer? Hmm, I'm not sure. You would think actors in Hollywood would
kill to play Custer, if it was directed by a top director. Bingo! I got
it! If Will Smith can play James West on the big screen, then I see no
reason why Will Smith can't play Custer too. He's the perfect actor.
I think it would cool to see a film on Mrs. Custer focusing on her time in
Washington while Custer was fighting in the Civil War.
I would also like to see a film focusing on his solders while out west.
Showing how bad they had it, how uneducated and poor they were. Dirtbags
with a crazy commander. Maybe a film with an analogy comparing Custers
solders to American solders in Iraq.
Sarge
"Bret81C" <bre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041019234535...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Well, I think Libby Custer was banging Bill Hickock anyway. But you're right
about JLo. Trash with a huge butt. Hahaha!
Scott Nelson
Bob Tiernan
> R Graham wrote:
> > I might have this wrong but didn't Custer get written
> > up for leaving his post and riding across the country
> > to see his wife??
> Yup, in 1866. He was in Kansas at the time.
>
> Linda T can fill in the details as she is probably the
> most knowledgeable person here on Custer.
No -- *I* am.
Bob t
Bob Tiernan
> I went and looked at some photos of Mrs. Custer. To me,
> she looks sort of like Nicole Kidman.
A few decades ago the best choice by far was
Sally Fields. One needs to find a Sally Fields
type now.
Kidman would only "fit" the part if her casting
is made for box office purposes only.
> A non-PC movie about the Custers could be quite interesting.
> Who would you suggest for Custer? himself?
A Sam Elliot stype (same voice, command presence etc).
Is it too late to get Sam to look like a weather-worn
man in his late-30s?
Bob t
Bob Tiernan
> Owen Wilson.
Gimme a break. He's too twitty.
Bob t
Bob Tiernan
According to Utley, Custer received a letter from another
officer who mentioned that back at Fort Riley or some
other post a certain officer (tentatively identified as
Captain Weir) was paying a lot of attention to Libby.
When Custer received this information his campaigning
was at a standstill so he used those circumstances to
come up with a resupply plan that would allow him to
dance on the line between violating his orders and
conducting legitimate logistical work. He gambled and
he lost, and it didn't help that he marched his escort
harder than it needed to and was negligent when it came
to caring for it when it was occasionally the target
of lurking warriors.
When Custer got back to the post where Libby was,
one eyewitness saw him pointing a revolver at Weir's
head while the latter was on his knees in front of
Custer. Afterwards Weir wasa loyal puppydog to Custer.
This was not the last time that Custer apparently
was seen pointing a revolver at someone who
was kneeling in front of him. What a character.
Bob t
Bob Tiernan
> Well, since there is mostly spam on this news group
Not that I've noticed. It's lightly used, which is good.
But almost all messages are not spam but legitimate
old west threads people start.
> Custer's wife Libbie is the most beautiful woman I have
> ever seen, when looking at pictures of women from that era.
> Absolutely gorgeous. What really surprises me is that she
> looks so good when just about all the pictures I have ever
> seen from that time show the women and men like they are
> half dead.
It was hard to look yourself in snapshot fashion when
one had to sit there for perhaps 30 seconds or so.
Hard to keep a smile or anything (which would help),
but Libby seems to have been able to curl up the corners
of her mouth just enough and hold it.
But take a look at some mid-1870s photos of her (in
group shots at Fort A. Lincoln) -- she looks old
at times, gray haired etc. I can't explain it.
> Also, I was just thinking, I would love to see a modern
> film made of the Big Horn battle.
Son of the Morning Star with Gary Cole (1991) probably
killed off any chance for a serious work for some years.
It would have been a better project had the original
script been used (written by Harrison Ford's ex, the
one who wrote E.T. screenplay). My friend John M. Carroll
was very involved with that one and although he was
kept on the project after the rewrite, the newer script
was less favorable to Custer and was crap at the same time.
Cole was also terribly miscast. I recorded this when
it was on back in 1991, with commercials cut out, but
I have yet to watch it a second time.
Bob t
Cham Pugh
says...
>Who would you suggest for Custer? himself?
>
>Chris Mark
Eminem!
Gerald Clough
Like most of us, her appearanve varies over the years. But she does
stand up well among women photographed in the 19th century.
http://www.historicalphoto.com/images_page14.htm
http://www.courses.dsu.edu/dakwriters/E%20Custer/
She holds up well to modern eyes, compared to others of the day, like
these actresses:
http://www.the-forum.com/ephemera/vindex.htm
Eliza Rosanna "Lola Montez" Gilbert, from a bit earlier, was considered
stunning.
http://www.zpub.com/sf/history/lola-photos.html
Even discounting the later photos, when she was on a downhill slide, she
strikes on as nice enough but unremarkable. Of course, as today,
celebrity enhances the contemporary impression.
Etta Place is another woman who seems to have a look more appreciated
today.
http://www.thelastbestwest.com/sundance_kid_etta_place.htm
Clara Barton also had a "modern" look:
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/pic/bl_p_clara_barton.htm
Tastes change. And hair style has a lot to do with how we view images of
folks from the 19th century.
This is more what we expect:
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/pic/bl_p_civil_war_cdv1.htm
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/pic/bl_p_civil_war_cdv5.htm
There are, I think, a number of things at work when we reflect on photos
of 19th century women. For one, the spectral response of early films was
not flattering, and without electric lighting, it was impossible to
achieve the effects we expect in a modern portrait. Lighting effects had
to be passiv, blocking and reflecting sunlight, for the most part. Not
something commonly seen.
And there was little practice of artistic photography as in such things
as the purported photo of Josephine Earp.
And diseases we don't think much about were sufficiently evident to
prompt learned studies of portraits to identify sufferers of goiter and
other maladies, a rather high percentage being found to show physical
signs.
The good old days were in many ways wretched, and it shows, particulary,
I think, in photos from the frontier.
--
Gerald Clough
"Nothing has any value, unless you know you can give it up."
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Has this ever really been proven?
"Apparently" is a broad word.
LT
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Possibly, since Custer looked like a weather-worn man pushing 50/
LT
Linda Terrell
"Von Fourche" <monac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Was done in "Apocalypse Now." Robert Duval played Custer...
LT
Von Fourche
"Linda Terrell" <lin...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:lindat5-5BBA00...@news1.west.earthlink.net...
Then maybe a film featuring both George Patton and George Custer.
Perhaps a comedy. Maybe transferred back in time and goes to battle with a
Roman legion or something.
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > This was not the last time that Custer apparently
> > was seen pointing a revolver at someone who
> > was kneeling in front of him. What a character.
> Has this ever really been proven?
>
> "Apparently" is a broad word.
It's good to use that word (Custer was
apparently killed near the present day
monument).
Anyway, I don't think Utley invented the
letters. He may have seen them (it)
but was not allowed to quote them
directly. That oftens happens - case
in point are the letters or letter
by Lt. Godfrey which mentions that
Custer's body was found with an arrow
shoved up through his penis. This
has been mentioned in more recent works
by researchers who have seen the letter
but note that it does not seem to be
quoted verbatim. Another example is
when my late friend John M. Carroll
(while I was at his home in Texas for
about a week) was telling me about
some letters in a private collection
that include some really interesting
info on Reno. What he told me has yet
to see print, even as a paraphrase.
Bob t
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > This was not the last time that Custer apparently
> > was seen pointing a revolver at someone who
> > was kneeling in front of him. What a character.
> Has this ever really been proven?
By the way, Linda, do you know the other example
of this? Just a trivia question.
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDI...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Nope.
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > By the way, Linda, do you know the other example
> > of this? Just a trivia question.
> Nope.
One of the Ree scouts recalled years later that
Isaiah Dorman had advised Custer to take a
certain direction when the Dakota Column came to
a fork in the trail. Turned out it was bad
advice and the column had to backtrack. The
scout said that he later say Dorman on his knees
in front of Custer who was pointing a pistol
at him and cursing. Funny stuff.
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Scouts "said" a lot. Was this story corroborated?
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > One of the Ree scouts recalled years later that
> > Isaiah Dorman had advised Custer to take a
> > certain direction when the Dakota Column came to
> > a fork in the trail. Turned out it was bad
> > advice and the column had to backtrack. The
> > scout said that he later say Dorman on his knees
> > in front of Custer who was pointing a pistol
> > at him and cursing. Funny stuff.
> Scouts "said" a lot. Was this story corroborated?
Not that I know of -- but I did say (I think)
that these were two *reported* incidents
rather than documented. But anyway, I don't
see any reason why a scout would make up this
sort of thing as opposed to stories about
bravery in action. Any witnesses would
have numbered very few, too, considering
that this was probably far in advance of
the column.
And I like my Custer like this.
Bob t
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
I like a kick-ass GAC too. He actually shot at Bloody Knife
when that scout took a shot at an animal Custer wanted.
IIRC
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > One of the Ree scouts recalled years later that
> > Isaiah Dorman had advised Custer to take a
> > certain direction when the Dakota Column came to
> > a fork in the trail. Turned out it was bad
> > advice and the column had to backtrack. The
> > scout said that he later say Dorman on his knees
> > in front of Custer who was pointing a pistol
> > at him and cursing. Funny stuff.
> Scouts "said" a lot.
Again, yes, and lots of interesting tidbits
about people come from a single source.
Ever read about Capt. French taking opium and
turning blue on campaign? One source. Reader
must decided for himself.
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDI...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
True. But eve read anything by Benteen...?
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > Linda Terrell wrote:
> > > Scouts "said" a lot.
> > Again, yes, and lots of interesting tidbits
> > about people come from a single source.
> > Ever read about Capt. French taking opium and
> > turning blue on campaign? One source. Reader
> > must decided for himself.
> True. But ever read anything by Benteen...?
Lots. And of course, Benteen wrote the best
army gossip there was. In looking at his
writings (private letters), it's not so much
his facts that are off (tho' re: LBH they were
at times), but his opinions. Good reading,
though. But I wouldn't compare Benteen's
writings to that of Hugh L. Scott ('76 West
Point grad who was replacement lieut. after LBH),
source of the French-on-opium letter (to Hare)
in 1919, not long after his photo was taken near
the Crows Nest with Tim McCoy, a Ree scout, and
an unidentified man.
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDI...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
>
> > > Linda Terrell wrote:
>
>
> Lots. And of course, Benteen wrote the best
> army gossip there was. In looking at his
> writings (private letters), it's not so much
> his facts that are off (tho' re: LBH they were
> at times), but his opinions. Good reading,
> though. But I wouldn't compare Benteen's
> writings to that of Hugh L. Scott ('76 West
> Point grad who was replacement lieut. after LBH),
> source of the French-on-opium letter (to Hare)
> in 1919, not long after his photo was taken near
> the Crows Nest with Tim McCoy, a Ree scout, and
> an unidentified man.
>
> Bob T
I love reading Benteen's private letters. Great stuff.
What an opinion he had -- of himself.
LT
Bob Tiernan
> I love reading Benteen's private letters. Great
> stuff. What an opinion he had -- of himself.
I've always thought the most interesting statement
he made in all of his writings was the one about
how, in 1867, Custer had attempted to sell an army
wagon to get cash so his men could be paid (the
men were by then very impatient to get paid and
may have been on the verge of mass desertions).
The interesting part was when Benteen wrote that
he did not know the reason Custer had at the time,
but that had he known it then he would have "done
more" at Little Big Horn.
Why this passage is rarely mentioned is interesting.
By the way, Linda, do you attend the symposiums
in Hardin from time to time?
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDI...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Where is that? I probably have it but have forgotten it.
Where may I find that passage?
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> > I've always thought the most interesting statement
> > [Benteen] made in all of his writings was the one about
> > how, in 1867, Custer had attempted to sell an army
> > wagon to get cash so his men could be paid (the
> > men were by then very impatient to get paid and
> > may have been on the verge of mass desertions).
> > The interesting part was when Benteen wrote that
> > he did not know the reason Custer had at the time,
> > but that had he known it then he would have "done
> > more" at Little Big Horn.
> >
> > Why this passage is rarely mentioned is interesting.
> Where is that? I probably have it but have forgotten it.
> Where may I find that passage?
The info needs to be taken from two letters. I've just looked at it again
for the first time in X-nnumber of years and the LBH ref is as I recall it
more or less, but the wagon sale not quite.
Check the Feb 12, 1896 letter to Goldin, about 2/3rds into it. Benteen
discusses being told my a "Tom Thumb" at Fort Meade in 1882 that in 1869,
while at Camp Supply, Custer tried to sell a "bill of sale" for a wagon,
four mules and horses for $3,500 to a sutler and if the deal was made the
7th would be paid there (benefitting that sutler). If not, Custer would
go to Fort Hays with the paymaster and pay the men there, which is what he
wound up doing.
In the Feb 14, 1896 letter, near the beginning, Benteen refers to being at
Camp Supply in spring 1869 and that Weir and Robbins owed a sutler $1,500
apiece, and Lt. Gibson $500. There's the $3,500 but it's not clear if the
offer was made to help these officer clear their debts. Benteen implies
that Custer thought he could make "an easy $3,500". It's not clear in
this tale why the wagon with mules/horses was the sole offer to clear the
debts of three officers, when it's stated that Custer was trying to sell
it - now, why would a sutler who's owed $3,500 by three officers want to
PAY another $3,500 for a wagon w/animals, only to get the $3,500d back
when the officers then paid the debts? He would have wound up with the
same money back, plus the wagon and animals -- the offer could have simply
been "Take the wagon and animlas, and forget the debt". Odd.
Anyway, move on to the Feb 17, 1896 letter, about 3/4ths into it, to a
paragraph that starts with, "Had I then known...".
The full text is:
"Had I then known what was told me by 'Tom Thumb' at Fort Meade in 1882
about the $3,500 trade Custer offered sutler at Supply, in 1869, I might
have prevented his being killed at the Little Big Horn."
It's not clear whether Benteen thought the $3,500 deal good for the
regiment (i.e. did the paymaster have enough money etc?), or not,
but that last statement is interesting either way. It certainly
implies that he knew he could have done more, something he's careful
to avoid admitting everywhere else.
Bob t
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Wonnerful. I'll look up that correspondence.
But it damns Benteen -- he condemned 200 men to die with Custer.
And of course, only The Great Bentini could have saved Custer...
LT
Bob Tiernan
> Bob Tiernan wrote:
> Wonnerful. I'll look up that correspondence.
>
> But it damns Benteen -- he condemned 200 men to die with Custer.
I was just talking about this with my security guard friend
who's into this battle - his first reaction to the Benteen
comment about "preventing" Custer's death at LBH was that
it implied that Benteen (had he known of this attempted
$3,500 deal) would have "turned Custer in" and saved him
by getting Custer kicked out of the army. Hmmmm, seems
that Benteen (if this is to be considered) is thus admitting
that despite all he wrote of Custer's incompetence and
indiscretions had observed nothing in ten years that he
could have turned Custer in on. Very weak.
Bob T
Linda Terrell
<Pine.GSO.4.58MAILDIR...@shell1.pacifier.net>,
Bob Tiernan <zulu.pac...@shell1.pacifier.net> wrote:
Benteen was always full of "Oh what I could tell you about Custer"
or going on about the "shady deals" he *knew* Custer had made,
especially in Texas. But Benteen never turned GAC in. And never left
us any of his "proof."
LT