LONESOME DOVE & The Duke (Long-ish)
HeWhoGreps
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>> Thread: LONESOME DOVE & The Duke (Long-ish)
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Dean Eaton <dce...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Two other tidbits: Henry Fonda would have played Jake Spoon, and Angie
Dickinson would have been Lorrie.
McMurtry pays some not-too-subtle tributes to other movie Westerns in
LD. Gus is named after Western star Joel McCrea; the characters Sheriff
July Johnson and his deputy Roscoe are also the names of the sheriff
and deputy in the 1968 Jimmy Stewart Western BANDOLERO! George Kennedy
played Johnson; Andrew Prine played Roscoe.
You probably know this already, but I still think it's funny. McMurtry
may have seen them filming the movie in Texas and just decided he liked
the names"
Ah, no, actually, he WROTE the movie Bandolero. Larry MCMurtry is the
screenwriter who wrote Bandolero (and many other movies, and is still
writing movies), that being one James Lee Barrett, McMurtry's nome de
plume. Very few people know this.
And it was more than just the NAMES of the aforementioned characters
from Bandolero that he recycled. The entire subplot of July Johnson and
his runaway wife and his incompetent deputy, and the wife's lover, Dee
Boot is all from Bandolero, lock stock and plot. Also, the character of
Jake Spoon is the character played by Dean Martin in Bandolero.
Basically, if you take the aforementioned subplots of Bandolero, and
add in the cattle drive, Call and McCrae, you have Lonsome Dove.
Don't believe me? Rent the movie Bandolero and read the book Lonsome
Dove, or watch the movie Lonesome Dove.
--
It costs me never a stab nor squirm /
To tread by chance upon a worm. /
Aha, my little dear, /
I say, Your clan will pay me back one day.
Dorothy Parker, Thought for a Sunshiny Morning
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
HeWhoGreps
Furthermore, the part of Lonesome Dove (LD) that Larry McMurtry (LM)
didn't lift from Bandolero (the Call-McCrae epic journey to Montana via
a cattledrive) was also lifted, but from another movie that LM wrote as
James Lee Barrett (which was LM's nom de plume (see I do know how to
spell it!)), which was named the Cheyenne Social Club (CSC). Basically,
the two main characters of the CSC, played by Henry Fonda and Jimmy
Stewart, became the characters Call and McCrea of LD. And instead of
two old cowboys traveling to MOntana on a cattle drive, its two old
cowboys traveling to Montana to take possession of an inheritance,
which was a whorehouse (hmmmm, we started out in a whorehouse in LD).
In fact, watching the movie CSC is how I first discovered that teh
screenwrite James Lee Barrett was indeed Larry McMurtry. The Jimmy
Stewart and Henry Fonda characters reminded me so strongly of teh LD
characters that I began to investigate.
And so, my children, that is how LM wrote LD, a Pulizter Prize winning
novel, from his recycled movie scripts.
Ejucaided Redneck
this "McMurtry as Barrett" theory.
Found it won't hold water.
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kent conwell
thanks, kent
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> i'm curious as to what you learned about mcmurtry/barrett? mind sharing it?
> thanks, kent
Not at all.
Firstly, Barrett's initial screenplay credit, per the Internet Movie
Data Base
( http://www.imdb.com ) is a very well known 1957 film called "The
D.I." In ‘57 McMurtry was a college kid, and spent the next few years
--well into the sixties-- as either a grad student or as a teacher at
several universities, writing novels that did _not_ turn into
screenplays.
Secondly, the original poster thought that because McMurtry's name shows
up so little in the IMDB, despite his having said he'd done a lot of
work for and in films, that meant he must have been writing with a
pseudonym. Given the weird way screen credit is allocated on the worst
coast, it's not at all uncommon for writers to do considerable movie
work with little or nothing in the way of on-screen credit. A
contemporary case in point is Jim Harrison; more distant ones would be
Faulkner and Chandler.
Thirdly, the original poster's allegation Barrett did the screenplay for
"Streets of Laredo" is false.
--
http://www.netbasix.com/~rlsloan/
Stories, poetry, "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
and some funny stuff.
Listen to MP3 "notes" at
http://www.morehead-st.edu/units/wmky/wmky_reports.htm
HeWhoGreps
So you think the credit for Barrett as exec producer of the movie
adaptaion of a book written by Larry McMurtry well after Barrett was
supposedly dead is wrong, (plus at least one other piece of work he did
*after* he was dead (check James Lee Barrett at www.imdb.com)), but
that the credit for him as screen writer for The DI in 1957 is correct.
Any particular reason for your seemingly arbitrary evaluation of one as
right and the other as wrong?
Plus, yuo have either forgotten or decided not to address the FACT that
at least of the characters and plot of LD come from Bandolero
(characters, names and subplot), and from Cheyenne Social Club
(characters and subplot). These facts are basically indisputable.
And really, that is the interesting part of the whole story: The
Pulitzer Prize winning bestseller Lonesome Dove was in large part
scavenged from a couple of B-grade westerns from 1970 or thereabouts.
Since as you see from the www.imdb.com entry for Barrett, McMurtry
could not have written the script for the movie The DI, since was still
in school in 1957, I suggest that James Lee Barrett was and possibly
still is a studio name for any number of anonymous screenwriters.
James Lee Barrett
Page 1 of 11
Date of birth (location)
19 November 1929,
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Date of death (details)
15 October 1989,
Templeton, California, USA
James Lee Barrett
Amazon.com
Video
DVD
Soundtrack
Also available; Look for this name in Amazon:
Books
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Filmography as: Writer, Producer, Actor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Writer - filmography
(2000s) (1990s) (1980s) (1970s) (1960s) (1950s)
Warden, The (2000) (TV) (written by)
Ruby Jean and Joe (1996) (TV)
Jesse (1988) (TV)
April Morning (1988) (TV)
Poker Alice (1987) (TV)
Quick and the Dead, The (1987) (TV)
Stagecoach (1986) (TV)
Defiant Ones, The (1986) (TV)
Vengeance: The Story of Tony Cimo (1986) (TV)
... aka Vengeance (1986/II) (TV)
Belle Starr (1980) (TV)
Day Christ Died, The (1980) (TV)
Mayflower: The Pilgrims' Adventure (1979) (TV)
Wild Horse Hank (1979)
Stubby Pringle's Christmas (1978) (TV)
"Awakening Land, The" (1978) (mini) TV Series
Smokey and the Bandit (1977)
Something Big (1971)
Fools' Parade (1971)
... aka Dynamite Man from Glory Jail (1971)
Cheyenne Social Club, The (1970)
...tick...tick...tick... (1970)
Undefeated, The (1969)
Bandolero! (1968)
Green Berets, The (1968)
Shenandoah (1965)
Greatest Story Ever Told, The (1965)
Truth About Spring, The (1964)
On the Beach (1959) (uncredited)
D.I., The (1957)
... aka Drill Instructor, The (1957) (USA)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Filmography as: Writer, Producer, Actor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Producer - filmography
(1990s) (1970s)
"Dead Man's Walk" (1996) (mini) TV Series (executive)
... aka "Larry McMurtry's Dead Man's Walk" (1996) (mini)
"Streets of Laredo" (1995) (mini) TV Series (executive)
... aka "Larry McMurtry's Streets of Laredo" (1995) (mini)
Cheyenne Social Club, The (1970) (executive)
...tick...tick...tick... (1970)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Filmography as: Writer, Producer, Actor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Actor - filmography
Fools' Parade (1971) .... Sonny Boy
... aka Dynamite Man from Glory Jail (1971)
> http://www.netbasix.com/~rlsloan/
>
Stories, poetry, "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
> and some funny stuff.
> Listen to MP3 "notes" at
> http://www.morehead-st.edu/units/wmky/wmky_reports.htm
>
>
--
Ejucaided Redneck
> So you think the credit for Barrett as exec producer of the
movie
> adaptation of a book written by Larry McMurtry well after
Barrett was
> supposedly dead is wrong, (plus at least one other piece of
work he did
> *after* he was dead (check James Lee Barrett at www.imdb.com)),
but
> that the credit for him as screen writer for The DI in 1957 is
correct.
> Any particular reason for your seemingly arbitrary evaluation
of one as
> right and the other as wrong?
"The D.I." was a widely noticed film, as were most of the other
projects for which the IMDB credits Barrett, many of them utterly
unlike anything McMurtry ever wrote.
I've queried the IMDB about the production credit. They do make
mistakes there: last week they were claiming the death of a child
actress who is, so far as could be determined, alive and well.
> Plus, yuo have either forgotten or decided not to address the
FACT that
> at least of the characters and plot of LD come from Bandolero
> (characters, names and subplot), and from Cheyenne Social Club
> (characters and subplot). These facts are basically
indisputable.
Also indisputable is the fact character names, plots and even
titles are not subject to copyright and can be "borrowed" at
will. I suspect some sort of relationship or connection between
McMurtry and Barrett, and have queried the writer of the only
critical analysis of M's work that I know of about any knowledge
he might have about such a connection.
> Since as you see from the www.imdb.com entry for Barrett,
McMurtry
> could not have written the script for the movie The DI, since
he was
> still in school in 1957, I suggest that James Lee Barrett was
and
> possibly still is a studio name for any number of anonymous
> screenwriters.
You've moved from speculating Barrett was McMurtry to suggesting
Barrett was a whole slew of people. Seems equally suspect, since
there really aren't _that_ many credits listed for Barrett. He
appears to have been a more-than-competent journeyman
screenwriter, not an up-for-grabs pseudonym.
--
http://www.netbasix.com/~rlsloan/
Stories, poetry, "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
and some funny stuff.
Listen to MP3 "notes" at
http://www.morehead-st.edu/units/wmky/wmky_reports.htm
HeWhoGreps
Ejucaided Redneck <rlsloan...@connectup.com.invalid> wrote:
> HeWhoGreps wrote:
>
> > So you think the credit for Barrett as exec producer of the
> movie
> Barrett was
> > supposedly dead is wrong, (plus at least one other piece of
> work he did
> > *after* he was dead (check James Lee Barrett at www.imdb.com)),
> but
> > that the credit for him as screen writer for The DI in 1957 is
> correct.
> > Any particular reason for your seemingly arbitrary evaluation
> of one as
> > right and the other as wrong?
>
> projects for which the IMDB credits Barrett, many of them utterly
> unlike anything McMurtry ever wrote.
>
Barrett's writing "utterly unlike" McMurtry's writing? Not at all!
> I've queried the IMDB about the production credit. They do make
> mistakes there: last week they were claiming the death of a child
> actress who is, so far as could be determined, alive and well.
>
> > Plus, yuo have either forgotten or decided not to address the
> FACT that
> > at least of the characters and plot of LD come from Bandolero
> > (characters, names and subplot), and from Cheyenne Social Club
> > (characters and subplot). These facts are basically
> indisputable.
>
> Also indisputable is the fact character names, plots and even
> titles are not subject to copyright and can be "borrowed" at
> will.
IMO, that may not be true. I would call it plagarism.
>I suspect some sort of relationship or connection between
> McMurtry and Barrett,
He, heh. So do I!
> and have queried the writer of the only
> critical analysis of M's work that I know of about any knowledge
> he might have about such a connection.
Excellent. I look forward to any additional info.
Actually, on another newsgroup (screenwriting), I haave had a friend of
McMurtry respond with utter disbelief. In fact, she was so
disbelieving, and also without any specific denial from LM, that I
don't think she actually asked, or even knows.
>
> > Since as you see from the www.imdb.com entry for Barrett,
> McMurtry
> > could not have written the script for the movie The DI, since
> he was
> > still in school in 1957, I suggest that James Lee Barrett was
> and
> > possibly still is a studio name for any number of anonymous
> > screenwriters.
>
> You've moved from speculating Barrett was McMurtry to suggesting
> Barrett was a whole slew of people. Seems equally suspect, since
> there really aren't _that_ many credits listed for Barrett. He
> appears to have been a more-than-competent journeyman
> screenwriter, not an up-for-grabs pseudonym.
Look, I'm not claiming I am always right here. I am just a longtime
reader of LM books, and also quite a movie buff, with a degree in
English Lit, and I noticed the overlap in plot, characters, and even
writing style in the aforementioned works, and so here I am, giving
info, and asking for any that anyone else might have.
>
> --
> http://www.netbasix.com/~rlsloan/
> Stories, poetry, "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
> and some funny stuff.
> Listen to MP3 "notes" at
> http://www.morehead-st.edu/units/wmky/wmky_reports.htm
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion
Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet -
Free!
>
>
--
Ejucaided Redneck
> > "The D.I." was a widely noticed film, as were most of the other
> > projects for which the IMDB credits Barrett, many of them utterly
> > unlike anything McMurtry ever wrote.
> Barrett's writing "utterly unlike" McMurtry's writing? Not at all!
Thematically much of the work credited to Barrett was a long way from
McMurtry. Barrett apparently was known as someone capable of penning
Biblical epics as much as westerns. Some of the screenwriting sites I
checked trying to locate a photo of the man indicated that to be the
case anyway.
> > Also indisputable is the fact character names, plots and even
> > titles are not subject to copyright and can be "borrowed" at
> > will.
> IMO, that may not be true. I would call it plagarism.
It's quite true regarding the copyrighting of names, plots, and titles.
"Plagiarism" is stealing significant chunks of material verbatim, or
nearly so, and is much more
difficult to prove than nonwriters generally assume.
> >I suspect some sort of relationship or connection between
> > McMurtry and Barrett,
>
> He, heh. So do I!
But I don't believe they're the same person. I think what may have gone
on was a sort of "mentoring" relationship.
> > and have queried the writer of the only
> > critical analysis of M's work that I know of about any knowledge
> > he might have about such a connection.
>
> Excellent. I look forward to any additional info.
> Actually, on another newsgroup (screenwriting), I haave had a friend of
> McMurtry respond with utter disbelief. In fact, she was so
> disbelieving, and also without any specific denial from LM, that I
> don't think she actually asked, or even knows.
> > You've moved from speculating Barrett was McMurtry to suggesting
> > Barrett was a whole slew of people. Seems equally suspect, since
> > there really aren't _that_ many credits listed for Barrett. He
> > appears to have been a more-than-competent journeyman
> > screenwriter, not an up-for-grabs pseudonym.
>
> Look, I'm not claiming I am always right here. I am just a longtime
> reader of LM books, and also quite a movie buff, with a degree in
> English Lit, and I noticed the overlap in plot, characters, and even
> writing style in the aforementioned works, and so here I am, giving
> info, and asking for any that anyone else might have.
In your initial post about this subject you flatly stated it was a
"little known secret" McMurtry and Barrett were one and the same. I've
read nearly all of McMurtry, but have no idea at all, since he
apparently didn't write any novels, if Barrett's writing style compares
to M's or not.
In any sort of genre work archetypes appear. A great many of them,
including "one time friend gets hung after he goes bad" can be found in
"The Virginian." Cattle drives from here to yonder have been part of
parcel of western fiction and film almost as long as such things have
existed.
Literary mysteries and speculations are interesting. My favorites are
the claims William Wharton (author of the novel "Birdy" is really J. D.
Salinger, and the notion Queen Victoria wrote the "Alice" books. Both
those theories have more "evidence" than the notion McMurtry and Barrett
were the same person.
(And if it means anything, I've got an English degree too.)
--
Jaxart
>Ah, no, actually, he WROTE the movie Bandolero. Larry MCMurtry is the
>screenwriter who wrote Bandolero (and many other movies, and is still
>writing movies), that being one James Lee Barrett, McMurtry's nome de
>plume. Very few people know this.
I am a fan of McMurtry in both film and literature. I don't
understand why he would write some movies under a nom de plume
while writing others under his McMurtry name?
As an aside, my good friend just returned from Archer, Texas
and a book fair that starred McMurtry. She went hoping for
an autograph, at least, and returned complaining about what
an asshole he is by virtue of the way he treated the group
of senior citizens who she was with. No autograph for her either.
In any event, I recieved as a gift from her
a sweat shirt from the LONESOME DOVE INN in Archer. I guess
Archer is going the way of Marfa, TX -- the latter was taken
over by Donald Judd when he was living. McMurty is apparently
the big draw in Archer -- FOUR BOOK STORES owned by him there???
--
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