Shades of Jenny Jones: II?: Nancy Grace - talk show host responsible for guest's death?
Taylor (taylor.taylor@gmail.com)
September 13, 2006 8:46 p.m. EST
Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer
Orlando, FL (AHN) - After an aggressive interview on national
television, a woman who's child was reportedly stolen from his crib has
committed suicide.
After an interview with CNN's Nancy Grace, a former courtroom
prosecutor, Melinda Duckett, 21, shot herself, further complicating the
effort to find her 2 year-old-son, Trenton.
Grace asked the mother, "Where were you? Why aren't you telling us
where you were that day," while police have still not cited the woman
as a suspect in the disappearance of her son.
However, a spokeswoman for Grace explains that the suicide is "an
extremely sad development," and adds, "We feel a responsibility to
bring attention to this case in the hopes of helping find Trenton
Duckett, who remains missing."
Duckett's grandfather Bill Eubank tells MSNBC, "Nancy Grace and the
others, they just bashed her to the end."
"She wasn't one anyone ever would have thought of to do something like
this. She and that baby just loved each other, couldn't get away from
each other. She wouldn't hurt a bug."
According to MSNBC, Duckett had told police that after she finished
watching a movie Aug. 27, she went to check on Trenton in his bedroom,
and all she found was an empty crib - and a 10-inch cut in the window
screen above it. At the time, she was living with her son, wading
through a messy divorce with the boy's father and trying to get her
life back on track after getting laid off from her job with a lawn care
company.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=nancy%20grace&sa=N&tab=wn
---
'The Jenny Jones Show' Controversy
On an episode called "Same-Sex Secret Crushes" taped on March 6, 1995,
a gay man named Scott Amedure confessed his love for his car engineer,
Jonathan Schmitz. Schmitz reacted with laughter while on the show, but
became disturbed by the incident later. He had a history of mental
illness and alcohol/drug abuse. Three days after the show's taping,
Schmitz killed Amedure. Schmitz was later convicted of second degree
murder and received 25-50 years in prison. The episode was never aired.
Amedure's family then sued the producers of The Jenny Jones Show saying
they should have known about Schmitz's mental illness history. In
interviews, Jones said her producers told Schmitz that his admirer
could be a male, but Schmitz maintained they misled him into thinking
it would be a woman. While under oath, Jones admitted that the show
didn't want Schmitz to know that his admirer was a man. Amedure's
family won the initial ruling and the show was ordered to pay them $25
million. The verdict was later overturned by the Michigan appellate
court. The case is now studied in law school tort classes because of
the legal significance of saying the show's producers were not
responsible for guests' safety after they had left the studio.
Polonius...@excite.com
And I also find Nancy Grace's use of the "our" as in "our show" to be
telling. "Our" rather spreads the collective blame, I think.
avery
<Polonius...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1158204664.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I had the same thought.
>
> And I also find Nancy Grace's use of the "our" as in "our show" to be
> telling. "Our" rather spreads the collective blame, I think.
If somebody could find a way of removing that frightening woman from the
public eye forever, I'll attend 2 Jessica Simpson concerts, watch 3 Natalie
Portman films in a row and sleep with David Gest.
subscriber1997
"avery" <doom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H44Og.32$q....@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
i'd sleep with Jessica & Natalie
and poison David "she beat me up" Gest
Laurie Mann
In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person was
killed.
In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman HAD
murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
Laurie Mann
Dead People Server
http://www.deadpeople.info
Michael O'Connor
sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have expected
to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the kind of show
she does. I feel for this woman's family and for the missing child,
but I am ashamed that we live in a society with opportunistic lawyers
who want to sue everybody and everything to line their pockets, and
people who accept absolutely no personal responsibility for their
actions and want to blame everything on something else and exploit
somebody's death to get rich quick.
FragileWarrior
@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> I had the same thought.
>
> And I also find Nancy Grace's use of the "our" as in "our show" to be
> telling. "Our" rather spreads the collective blame, I think.
>
She certainly isn't the only person running that show; she's just the one
in front of the camera.
FragileWarrior
news:H44Og.32$q....@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com:
Jesus. I wouldn't sleep with David Gest to kill Osama Bin Laden.
Brigid Nelson
> I don't think these two cases are equivalent.
>
> In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
> because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person was
> killed.
>
> In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman HAD
> murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
>
I'm sure NG thinks so. Nancy Grace has never seen a suspect who wasn't
guilty.
brigid
Nancy2
Michael O'Connor wrote:
> I don't think the Nancy Grace show can be blamed, nobody forced her to
> sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have expected
> to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the kind of show
> she does. I feel for this woman's family and for the missing child,
If she were innocent of any wrongdoing, why would she be expected to be
"grilled quite aggressively?"
>and
> people who accept absolutely no personal responsibility for their
> actions and want to blame everything on something else and exploit
> somebody's death to get rich quick.
You could be describing Nancy Grace. She's disgusting and pathetic,
living vicariously through questionable characters and showcasing her
prurient interests.
N.
PirateJohn
avery wrote:
>
> If somebody could find a way of removing that frightening woman from the
> public eye forever, I'll attend 2 Jessica Simpson concerts, watch 3 Natalie
> Portman films in a row and sleep with David Gest.
Set her hair on fire. Above and beyond the fact that Nancy Grace is a
screaming irritant who makes the horrible assumption that everyone
accused of a crime is guilty, she has more lacquer on her hair than
your average 20 sports cars combined have on their bodywork.
--PirateJohn--
www.PirateJohn.com
FragileWarrior
@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> Michael O'Connor wrote:
>> I don't think the Nancy Grace show can be blamed, nobody forced her to
>> sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have expected
>> to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the kind of show
>> she does. I feel for this woman's family and for the missing child,
>
> If she were innocent of any wrongdoing, why would she be expected to be
> "grilled quite aggressively?"
If she were innocent of any wrongdoing, why would she mind being "grilled
quite aggressively"? If it were my kid, you could ask me anything you
wanted to ask and *I'D ANSWER*. How 'bout you?
>
>>and
>> people who accept absolutely no personal responsibility for their
>> actions and want to blame everything on something else and exploit
>> somebody's death to get rich quick.
>
> You could be describing Nancy Grace. She's disgusting and pathetic,
> living vicariously through questionable characters and showcasing her
> prurient interests.
Yeah, she's SATAN and Osama Bin Laden all rolled into one.
Karen
Laurie Mann wrote:
> I don't think these two cases are equivalent.
>
> In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
> because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person was
> killed.
>
> In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman HAD
> murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
Nobody's going to make a big exit without knowing what happened to
one's child. You'd stick around until you found out.
Not unless you knew what happened.
Karen
camille
I didn't see the show and am not a fan of Nancy Grace but one thing I
did read was that the woman stammered over fairly innocuous questions,
like: Where were you shopping that day? and another one I can't recall
that had to do with alibi and should have been easily answered.
Instead the woman got all flustered, as if she hadn't thought out her
whereabouts.
Supposedly she killed herself before the show aired.
Stacia
>Laurie Mann wrote:
>> In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman HAD
>> murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
>I'm sure NG thinks so. Nancy Grace has never seen a suspect who wasn't
>guilty.
That's about right. Plus, the police said the woman was not a
suspect, and the woman was going through a "messy" divorce as well, so
there's at least one other person who could be a suspect. Do we even
know the child was murdered?
Stacia
Zooropa
If my daughter were missing I would do ANYTHING to get her name out in
the public, to get her picture shown, to tell people to look for her.
FragileWarrior
@news.xmission.com:
> Brigid Nelson <irja...@comcast.net> writes:
>>Laurie Mann wrote:
>
>>> In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman
HAD
>>> murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
>
>>I'm sure NG thinks so. Nancy Grace has never seen a suspect who wasn't
>>guilty.
>
> That's about right. Plus, the police said the woman was not a
> suspect,
Uh, no they didn't.
> and the woman was going through a "messy" divorce as well, so
> there's at least one other person who could be a suspect.
He went right in, took a lie detector test AND had his alibi confirmed by
the cops.
> Do we even
> know the child was murdered?
No. But realistically, the stats say that he's dead. Very few kids show
up alive after this long. ESPECIALLY two year olds.
Stacia
>sta...@xmission.com (Stacia) wrote:
>> That's about right. Plus, the police said the woman was not a
>> suspect,
>Uh, no they didn't.
Don't be a jerk. It's in the article in the very first post of the
thread:
"....while police have still not cited the woman as a suspect in the
disappearance of her son."
Stacia
erinsassy
Brigid Nelson wrote:
Nancy Grace has never seen a suspect who wasn't
> guilty.
"hockey dad" who beat the coach to death in Mass. Then NG was all
sympathy for this "poor, protective father" who IIRC was 50 lbs larger
and 6 inches taller than his victim.
I am also so sick of hearing her bray about pretty, missing white women
and how her fiance was murdered, so she knows what it's like to be a
"VEEYUK-TUM".
Hunter Rose
wrote:
> If somebody could find a way of removing that frightening woman from
> the public eye forever, I'll attend 2 Jessica Simpson concerts,
> watch 3 Natalie Portman films in a row and sleep with David Gest.
I do my part - I don't watch her.
HR
Hunter Rose
wrote:
Don't you think Nancy is an opportunist who exploits people's
tragedies to get rich?
HR
tonil...@sbcglobal.net
thought she could come on national TV and fake ala Susan Smith everyone
out.
Everyone who thinks Nancy caused this is a moron. Anyone who uses the c
word is a moron.
Nancy wanted answers...instead of the little bitch avoiding the
questions, why didnt she just hang up? Oh no...She had to act like the
caring Mom. Give me a break. She wanted to sell the baby car seat???
HAHA. That son of a b.
avery
"Hunter Rose" <hun...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:s30kg29el8u5rl1gs...@4ax.com...
I catch her on occasion (usually on a channel-surf) but you see, it's not
just about not wanting to see her. It's about wanting her dragged down a
public street, head shaved (or hair helmet unglued) screeching and breaking
mirrors as others point fingers at *her*....
I still maintain that she could open a can with her nose. She's hard as
nails, shrewish as a scorned sorority sister, and utterly devoid of
charisma. Boil the witch, I say!
avery
She even exploited her own freakin' tragedy!
http://www.observer.com/printpage.asp?iid=12455&ic=NYTV
Guy Bannis
tonil...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Nancy didnt do anything...it was the murdering little bitch Mother who
> thought she could come on national TV and fake ala Susan Smith everyone
That's right. Nancy could have denied this person a national stage to do
all those things you denounce her for doing.
But instead Nancy gave her the airwaves, and benefited from the
exploitation as well.
waltbrad
Michael O'Connor wrote:
> I don't think the Nancy Grace show can be blamed, nobody forced her to
> sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have expected
> to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the kind of show
> she does.
You're talking about a 21 year old woman. Not everybody is so into the
nightly news that they know that pitbulls like Nancy Grace are out
there waiting to take a bite.
I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to say that she "should have
expected to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace..."
21 year olds are not all that into news.
waltbrad
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not. But either way this young woman
should not have had to go through Nancy Grace's bullshit.
If Grace is 1/10th the professional she claims to be, she would have to
know that the woman was very likely a suicide risk.
Life and death should not be in the hands of a yellow-journalist.
waltbrad
Well, that is a good reason to watch her. But she makes me bristle.
So, I don't watch her. But it was hard not to hear about this story.
Hunter Rose
I fixed your top posting.
>Hunter Rose wrote:
>> On 14 Sep 2006 04:13:12 -0700, "Michael O'Connor" <mpoco...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I don't think the Nancy Grace show can be blamed, nobody forced her
>> > to sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have
>> > expected to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the
>> > kind of show she does. I feel for this woman's family and for the
>> > missing child, but I am ashamed that we live in a society with
>> > opportunistic lawyers who want to sue everybody and everything to
>> > line their pockets, and people who accept absolutely no personal
>> > responsibility for their actions and want to blame everything on
>> > something else and exploit somebody's death to get rich quick.
>>
>> Don't you think Nancy is an opportunist who exploits people's
>> tragedies to get rich?
>>
>> HR
>Nancy didnt do anything...it was the murdering little bitch Mother who
>thought she could come on national TV and fake ala Susan Smith everyone
>
>out.
>Everyone who thinks Nancy caused this is a moron. Anyone who uses the c
>
>word is a moron.
>Nancy wanted answers...instead of the little bitch avoiding the
>questions, why didnt she just hang up? Oh no...She had to act like the
>caring Mom. Give me a break. She wanted to sell the baby car seat???
>HAHA. That son of a b.
<shrug> I wasn't talking about this particular case, but her
entire television career.
HR
Trace
I feel pretty certain her fiance had himself murdered.
Trace
FragileWarrior
news:1158288324.8...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> Karen wrote:
>> Laurie Mann wrote:
>> > I don't think these two cases are equivalent.
>> >
>> > In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
>> > because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person
>> > was killed.
>> >
>> > In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman
>> > HAD murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so
>> > random.
>>
>> Nobody's going to make a big exit without knowing what happened to
>> one's child. You'd stick around until you found out.
>>
>> Not unless you knew what happened.
>>
>> Karen
>
> Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not. But either way this young woman
> should not have had to go through Nancy Grace's bullshit.
Did you even see it? It wasn't that bad. No more than should have been
asked. Everyone on the show was jaw-dropping stunned that the mother
would not even answer the most basic of questions.
>
> If Grace is 1/10th the professional she claims to be, she would have
> to know that the woman was very likely a suicide risk.
First you speak for all 21 year olds and now you speak for Nancy Grace?
Pulleeze. You give yourself WAYYYYYYYYYYY too much credit.
>
> Life and death should not be in the hands of a yellow-journalist.
It wasn't. It was in the hands that pulled the trigger.
Shrike!
From: PirateJohn <Pirat...@aol.com>
Newsgroups:
rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities,alt.showbiz.gossip,alt.true-crime,alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Shades of Jenny Jones: II?: Nancy Grace - talk show host
responsible for guest's death?
Date: 14 Sep 2006 09:08:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1158250097.2...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.71
> Set her hair on fire. Above and beyond the fact that Nancy Grace is a
> screaming irritant who makes the horrible assumption that everyone
> accused of a crime is guilty, she has more lacquer on her hair than
> your average 20 sports cars combined have on their bodywork.
As shown by the evidence below, pot <-> kettle <-> black.
15 chickenshit aliases from the schizophrenia roster of internet
TROLL aliases used by John Wesley Gilmer III, aka PirateJohn, for the
past week alone:
From: PirateJohn <Pirat...@aol.com>
From: Alcib...@hush.com
From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
From: Bill Cmelak loves his Hoodoo <rattler...@yahoo.com>
From: Ginger <Ginger_...@yahoo.com>
From: retarded_littl...@yahoo.com
From: village_id...@yahoo.com
From: Fat_Bil...@yahoo.com
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
From: Billy's Daddy <Billy_Cme...@hushmail.com>
From: boytoy_r...@yahoo.com
From: your_worse...@mac.hush.com
From: Dougla...@hushmail.com
From: Yellow-Ey...@hushmail.com
From: auto2...@hushmail.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.12.116.203
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.199.238.125
From: Alcib...@hush.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Legendary British rock band The Who will be hosting its
own channel on Sirius Satellite Radio
Date: 15 Sep 2006 04:19:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1158319194.8...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.199.238.125
From: auto2...@hushmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: This newsgroup is looking awfully trashed. If you want to
know why, just look at what shitstain "Shrike" posts in other newsgroups.
Date: 13 Sep 2006 19:36:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1158201380.0...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.199.238.125
From: your_worse...@mac.hush.com
Newsgroups: alt.mexico,alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: assfaced TROLL Fat Billy Cmelak of Pearson, WI adds yet
another alias to his schizophrenic roster:
"boytoy_r...@yahoo.com"
Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:21:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1157905286.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Dougla...@hushmail.com
Newsgroups: fl.general,alt.fan.frank-zappa,wi.general,wash.general
Subject: Fat Billy Cmelak of Pearson, WI confesses to wanting to rape
men, was Re: more TROLLing from 350 lb. Lori Cmelak's sweetheart
scammer, was Re: The party moved on, and left the trolls behind
Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:29:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1157905796.7...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Yellow-Ey...@hushmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Bubba is happy to be the Shrike Troll's rump buddy, was Re:
forgot yesterdays's dinner special !
http://z10.invisionfree.com/ZAPPATEARS/index.php?
Date: 10 Sep 2006 17:34:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1157934859.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
From: PirateJohn <Pirat...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: William Kunstler
Date: 5 Sep 2006 15:38:18 -0700
Message-ID: <1157495898....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
From: PirateJohn <Pirat...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Shrike the Stalker (your pal William Cmelak) is getting wound
up again
Date: 5 Sep 2006 15:46:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1157496373.2...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
From: PirateJohn <Pirat...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Shrike the Stalker (your pal William Cmelak) is getting
wound up again
Date: 5 Sep 2006 19:06:36 -0700
Message-ID: <1157508396....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: September 4, 1995: William Kunstler, U.S. lawyer and
civil rights activist
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:09:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1157540980.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Shithead Cmelak, trailer-dwelling crackhead and all around
doofus
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:10:49 -0700
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Crackhead and queer Cmelak, laughed at in his own town,
wasRe: Personal to Jim, Jim2, Stacey, Betty, et al ...
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:11:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1157541116....@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Whiner Cmelak - can't hold down a job and has no friends, was
Re: A no-troll moderated newsgroup? You've got it!
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:12:59 -0700
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From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: ARE ALL CMELAK's GAY ?
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:13:54 -0700
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From: Karen_Anderson_...@yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: Raymond Scott still refuses to die
Date: 6 Sep 2006 04:15:42 -0700
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From: Bill Cmelak loves his Hoodoo <rattler...@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Shrike Troll (Cmelak) announces his engagement to Viper
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From: Bill Cmelak loves his Hoodoo <rattler...@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Do all Zappaqueers have fantasies about raping men?
Date: 6 Sep 2006 05:41:50 -0700
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From: Bill Cmelak loves his Hoodoo <rattler...@yahoo.com>
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Subject: 350 lb. Lori Cmelak leaves Fat Billy Cmelak
Date: 6 Sep 2006 05:43:02 -0700
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Subject: Total loser Cmelak -- flunks out of community college
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From: Ginger <Ginger_...@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Total loser Cmelak -- living in poverty in a dirty old mobile
home in the woods
Date: 6 Sep 2006 06:10:07 -0700
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Subject: Total loser Cmelak -- filed for bankruptcy in 1999
Date: 6 Sep 2006 06:11:22 -0700
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From: Ginger <Ginger_...@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a disability
pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 06:12:23 -0700
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Subject: Re: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a
disability pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 07:51:31 -0700
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From: village_id...@yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a
disability pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 11:56:45 -0700
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From: Fat_Bil...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Shrike! has spammed other groups over 22 times and still
counting ... he doesn't respect you characters very much, does he?
Date: 6 Sep 2006 13:08:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1157573316.9...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a
disability pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 15:46:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1157582767....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a
disability pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 15:46:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1157582771....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Total loser Cmelak -- welfare queen living on a
disability pension
Date: 6 Sep 2006 15:46:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1157582777....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.72
From: village_id...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Crackhead queer Cmelak, sociopathic pride of Pearson,
Wisconsin; was - Re: Personal to Jim, Jim2, Stacey, Betty, et al ...
Date: 6 Sep 2006 16:21:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1157584888.6...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.73
From: village_id...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Shithead Cmelak, rapist and sweetheart scamming
criminal-minded sociopath, crackhead and all around doofus
Date: 6 Sep 2006 16:22:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1157584961.8...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.73
From: village_id...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Cmelak = pile of shit, was Re: William Kunstler
Date: 6 Sep 2006 16:23:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1157585033.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.73
From: village_id...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: Naples Parrotheads Beach Bash results
Date: 6 Sep 2006 16:24:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1157585087.7...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.188.116.73
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Moron Cmelak, was Re: King and Queen of Somewhere Hot
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:44:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597087....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Fat, lonely, bankrupt Cmelak counts Zappafools as his only
friends and butt buddies, was Re: Migration - the song - and why some
people don't have a clue
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:45:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597156.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Spammer and scammer Shrike/Cmelak owes everyone in county
money, was Re: Capt. Tony to celebrate 90th birthday with Tampa Bay
Parrotheads
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:47:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597261....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Cmelak begs Zappafools to take up a collection to buy him new
teeth, was Re: Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:48:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597324....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Cmelak's drunken daddy died of oral syphillis, was Re:
Raymond Scott still refuses to die
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:49:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597397....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: milhouse_...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Cmelak family tells Fat William "You are a 55 year old child.
Get a damned job!" was Re: Queen of Somewhere Hot raffles
Date: 6 Sep 2006 19:51:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1157597471.2...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Fat_Bil...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Whine, whine, and whine some more, that's all that Shithead
Cmelak can do these days
Date: 7 Sep 2006 04:07:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1157627260.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
From: Fat_Bil...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Dumbass Cmelak was too stupid to hold down a normal job, and
now he's just a disabled, broken down fool, was Re: Maj. Daniel Zappa,
executive officer of 1st Battalion, 6th Marines deployed to Iraq
Date: 7 Sep 2006 04:08:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1157627334....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
From: Fat_Bil...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Troll and stalker Cmelak - lazy, lonely, with no friends, was
Re: ZPZ, University at Buffalo Center for the Arts, October 23
Date: 7 Sep 2006 04:09:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1157627387.3...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
From: Billy's Daddy <Billy_Cme...@hushmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa,wash.general,wi.general,fl.general
Subject: Man-rapist William Cmelak of Pearson, WI tells guy pal "Just
because I have fantasies about raping other men doesn't mean that I am
gay", was Re: Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker
Date: 8 Sep 2006 06:47:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1157723220....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.12.116.203
From: boytoy_r...@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa,wash.general,wi.general,fl.general
Subject: If perverted stalker Billy Cmelak of Pearson, WI had any
decency he would eliminate himself from society
Date: 10 Sep 2006 06:24:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1157894684.1...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: your_worse...@mac.hush.com
Newsgroups: alt.mexico,alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Re: assfaced TROLL Fat Billy Cmelak of Pearson, WI adds yet
another alias to his schizophrenic roster:
"boytoy_r...@yahoo.com"
Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:21:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1157905286.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Dougla...@hushmail.com
Newsgroups: fl.general,alt.fan.frank-zappa,wi.general,wash.general
Subject: Fat Billy Cmelak of Pearson, WI confesses to wanting to rape
men, was Re: more TROLLing from 350 lb. Lori Cmelak's sweetheart
scammer, was Re: The party moved on, and left the trolls behind
Date: 10 Sep 2006 09:29:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1157905796.7...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.77.189
From: Yellow-Ey...@hushmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.frank-zappa
Subject: Bubba is happy to be the Shrike Troll's rump buddy, was Re:
forgot yesterdays's dinner special !
http://z10.invisionfree.com/ZAPPATEARS/index.php?
Date: 10 Sep 2006 17:34:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1157934859.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.100.7
~~~
John Wesley Gilmer III, 12526 Agatite Road, Jacksonville, Florida
32258; (904) 247-3543 or (904) 652-7222 or (904) 268-5220 or (904)
673-0932; "I'm smarter, bigger, stronger, and a lot meaner than you
are. You also won't be the first person that I didn't like who I had
to kill. Legally." -- john wesley gilmer III; john wesley gilmer III
is, of course, "el Presidente, Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club,
www.ABVMC.com"
Hey ass-troll gilmer, how's that fictitious real estate doing these
days? How much of that $30,000 UNSECURED (meaning, no real
property or other assets available for collateral; i.e., a deadbeat!!)
"soft loan" from 2.5 years ago have you paid back yet?
$30,000 worth of methamphetamine is a heavy load to ingest within
two year's time so you can ride your shitty motorcycle without
stopping to sleep on occasion.
Bwahahahaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
======================================
From: pirat...@aol.comNOSPAM (PirateJohn)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: 24 Dec 2003 16:51:46 GMT
Subject: Re: DEAD: Christmas Bonuses? What did you get?
Message-ID: <20031224115146...@mb-m01.aol.com>
Jeese ... after I had to do the unthinkable several years ago (go
back to work) I thought that times were really tough these days.
Hearing everyone's tales made me realize that I've been pretty lucky.
My bonus: Several thousand $$$ from The Day Job a few months ago,
several hundred extra during X-mas, and a $30K soft loan from a
friend to buy some property about a month ago.
======================================
$30000 / 29 months = $1034.48276 per month
$1034.48276 / 4 weeks = $258.62069
You sure as fuck haven't been paying over $250 PER WEEK
to have fully repaid that $30k by now. Not at little more than
minimum wage they pay you (at age 50!) at internet abuse
facilitating Moffitt Corporation in Jacksonville Beach, Florida!
Bwahahahaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bwahahahaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bwahahahaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~
"PigSty PirateJohn" Weasely Gilmer III who initiates and perpetuates,
yet refuses to take responsibility for, internet and real life abuse:
John Wesley Gilmer III, 12526 Agatite Road, Jacksonville, Florida
32258; (904) 247-3543 or (904) 652-7222 or (904) 268-5220 or (904)
673-0932; "I'm smarter, bigger, stronger, and a lot meaner than you
are. You also won't be the first person that I didn't like who I had
to kill. Legally." -- john wesley gilmer III; john wesley gilmer III
is, of course, "el Presidente, Atlantic Beach Vintage Motorcycle Club,
www.ABVMC.com"
--
Gotta Find My Roogalator
jeremyfive
insulting to the intellect. I felt very badly when Jones had her guest
problems (terrible incident).
Why does a top-notch news network such as CNN have such brain-numbing
low-brow shows like "Nancy Grace" and "Glenn Beck"? Both of these
shows are a waste. And both step over ethical lines.
Aren't there any thinking people in Atlanta who could host a program
worthy of the news-end of the network?
(I gave "Glenn Beck" a chance--now I cannot watch him at all--straight
to the channel changer whenever he launches one of his quirky,
right-wing opinions--while pretending to be nonpartisan.)
J
frank megaweege
I watch her for a few minutes at a time.
The parts of the interview I heard didn't sound that bad. The mother
was extremely evasive. She sounded fairly intelligent and quick
witted, almost like a defense attorney herself. Not at all weak and
helpless. I don't think it's very likely that the interview pushed her
over the edge emotionally. It may have made her realize that her story
wasn't going to withstand scrutiny. Something she would have realized
eventually without Nancy Grace.
yD
If nothing else, maybe people involved in a crime, including lawyers,
families, etc. will stop going on television two minutes after a crime
is discovered or a lawyer appointed. It just makes me sick, especially
when it's lawyers! Keep quiet and stay off tv!
As for this woman, didn't she buy the gun before the interview? That
suggests she was going to use it on somebody before Nancy Grace spoke
to her.
yD
yD
waltbrad wrote:
> Karen wrote:
> > Laurie Mann wrote:
> > > I don't think these two cases are equivalent.
> > >
> > > In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
> > > because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person was
> > > killed.
> > >
> > > In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman HAD
> > > murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
> >
> > Nobody's going to make a big exit without knowing what happened to
> > one's child. You'd stick around until you found out.
> >
> > Not unless you knew what happened.
> >
> > Karen
>
> Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not. But either way this young woman
> should not have had to go through Nancy Grace's bullshit.
She didn't *have to* talk to Nancy Grace, or anybody else except the
police.
>
> If Grace is 1/10th the professional she claims to be, she would have to
> know that the woman was very likely a suicide risk.
How?
>
> Life and death should not be in the hands of a yellow-journalist.
Even in this case, I don't think it was. The newly purchased gun, the
car seat and clothes being given away or sold -- rumors, I know.
But I just can't blame Nancy Grace, except for her wanting to talk to
the mother, and that's part of her job. Having said that: it would
be interesting to hear the interview, listening for clues as to the
fate of the baby or plans for suicide. I wonder if it will ever be
aired. I doubt it, unless the police release it (I'm assuming the
police have a copy of the tape.)
yD
Bianca
Glenn Beck may be the worst of all of them right now. Killer Joe
Scarborough seems to be preparing for a career after the GOP loses power
by doing shows questioning GWB's sanity, although he loses any
credibility when he does shows on topics like "Jon Stewart: Bad for
Democracy?" But Glenn Beck seems to be operating in his own little
world. It's like these cable news shows (except for Olbermann) are one
step behind the rest of America. The rest of the country has opened
their eyes to the problems of the Bush crew. But Glenn Beck and his
buddies just keep spewing their hatred.
He can say he's nonpartisan. I can say I'm a size 5. Doesn't mean it's
true.
cally...@gmail.com
jeremyfive wrote:
> Why does a top-notch news network such as CNN have such brain-numbing
> low-brow shows like "Nancy Grace" and "Glenn Beck"? Both of these
> shows are a waste. And both step over ethical lines.
Glenn Beck is a made-up show with an excretion for a "host", and CNN
created it to re-affirm to liberals how stupid conservatives are
supposed to be. GB doesn't really exist outside the teleprompter. GB
is a tradename.
Nancy Grace appeals to mankind's appreciation for cruelty.
Anim8rFSK
"jeremyfive" <jerem...@atlanticbb.net> wrote:
> Jenny Jones was far more talented than Nancy Grace--the latter is
> insulting to the intellect. I felt very badly when Jones had her guest
> problems (terrible incident).
>
> Why does a top-notch news network such as CNN
blink
blink, blink
CNN? Top notch?
Not since the 20th Century.
Fantasia_Burro
>
> (I gave "Glenn Beck" a chance--now I cannot watch him at all--straight
> to the channel changer whenever he launches one of his quirky,
> right-wing opinions--while pretending to be nonpartisan.)
>
Be thankful its not Neil Boortz on TV. He'd possibly get better ratings. He
likes to wind up biased people. And he seems to be very good at it.
Bernie Woodham
"yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158330009.8...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> waltbrad wrote:
>> Karen wrote:
>> > Laurie Mann wrote:
>> > > I don't think these two cases are equivalent.
>> > >
>> > > In the Jenny Jones case, a homophobe went and murdered a man just
>> > > because the man expressed an interest in him. An innocent person was
>> > > killed.
>> > >
>> > > In the Nancy Grace case, I do suspect it'll turn out that the woman
>> > > HAD
>> > > murdered her child, so the woman's suicide wasn't quite so random.
>> >
>> > Nobody's going to make a big exit without knowing what happened to
>> > one's child. You'd stick around until you found out.
>> >
>> > Not unless you knew what happened.
>> >
>> > Karen
>>
>> Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not. But either way this young woman
>> should not have had to go through Nancy Grace's bullshit.
>
> She didn't *have to* talk to Nancy Grace, or anybody else except the
> police.
>>
*have to* behave like a pit bull either. She could have backed away if
she thought the mother was being dishonest, and then she could have let
the police do their job.
But, nooooooooo. Nutcase Grace had to go to the jugular for those ratings.
I suspect the mother was approached in a very sympathetic manner by
the producers of that show.
Noone is going to convince me that Nancy Grace had any concern what-so-ever
other than skewering that woman.
>> If Grace is 1/10th the professional she claims to be, she would have to
>> know that the woman was very likely a suicide risk.
>
> How?
>
Professionals who deal with crime are very aware that these people can be
very
unstable and are suicide risks. You are either naieve or pretending to be.
You've never heard of inmates being kept in a suicide watch?
>>
>> Life and death should not be in the hands of a yellow-journalist.
>
> Even in this case, I don't think it was. The newly purchased gun, the
> car seat and clothes being given away or sold -- rumors, I know.
> But I just can't blame Nancy Grace, except for her wanting to talk to
> the mother, and that's part of her job. Having said that: it would
> be interesting to hear the interview, listening for clues as to the
> fate of the baby or plans for suicide. I wonder if it will ever be
> aired. I doubt it, unless the police release it (I'm assuming the
> police have a copy of the tape.)
> yD
>
It's been all over the place. Nancy Grace aired the thing even AFTER the
woman killed herself.
waltbrad
Bianca wrote:
> It's like these cable news shows (except for Olbermann) are one
> step behind the rest of America.
Olbermann is the only news show worth watching.
tiny dancer
"Bernie Woodham" <birnh...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:s46dnaRBHqXLUJfY...@insightbb.com...
My original opinion still stands. Had the grace-less one not come on like a
pit bull, perhaps this case would have been wrapped up by now, much like the
susan smith/sheriff wells was it, case. By grace blundering in there, much
like a rottweiler in heat, she has possibly made this case unsolvable. Yes,
she can interview and ask questions, but she possibly fucked up what ever
strategy LE *could have* used on the mother to get her to give up where the
kid is.
td
>
>
PirateJohn
Interesting.
According to Wiki -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck
- Beck is a real, live human. More or less. I think that he's a
militarist and alarmist idiot, but that's beside the point.
A night or two ago he was doing a rant about celebrities speaking out
on political matters (he was citing George Clooney's speach to the UN)
and I remember thinking that this loon was a DJ with a drinking and
drugs problem and a diagnosis of attention-deficit hyperactivity
disorder, who earned his living speaking about politics, yet he was
trying to discredit another media person for basically being a media
person and doing occasionally what Beck did 24/7. Sheesh, talk about
double standards.
--PirateJohn--
www.PirateJohn.com
Brigid Nelson
> Brigid Nelson wrote:
> Nancy Grace has never seen a suspect who wasn't
>
>>guilty.
>
> The only time I have ever heard her side with a defendant was the
> "hockey dad" who beat the coach to death in Mass. Then NG was all
> sympathy for this "poor, protective father" who IIRC was 50 lbs larger
> and 6 inches taller than his victim.
> I am also so sick of hearing her bray about pretty, missing white women
> and how her fiance was murdered, so she knows what it's like to be a
> "VEEYUK-TUM".
>
I followed the hockey dad case, it was pretty interesting, not as cut
and dried as you would think initially. The upshot to me was that the
dead guy went around picking fights, until the day he picked the wrong
guy to fight with. Pretty sad all around really.
brigid
Zooropa
Bernie Woodham wrote:
> Nobody said she "had" to talk to Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace did not
> *have to* behave like a pit bull either. She could have backed away if
> she thought the mother was being dishonest, and then she could have let
> the police do their job.
EXACTLY...Nancy Grace needs to stop her Nancy Drew mentality. She's a
talking head, that's it.
Let's say this mother is guilty, (no evidence of that so far,) Graces
behavior didn't help open this women up! Grace wasn't looking for
answers or truth, she was looking for desk pounding ratings.
What if this mother was scared, and knew something, but was just
scared, do you think that screaming at her like a maniac was going to
help open her up? No...I bet the police are beyond pissed at this Jr.
Detective wanna be.
Stacia
>First you speak for all 21 year olds and now you speak for Nancy Grace?
>Pulleeze. You give yourself WAYYYYYYYYYYY too much credit.
Speaking of too much credit, you're the one who's been freakin'
*lying* about facts of this case all over alt.obits (and the other
groups this is being posted to) and ignoring it when you're corrected.
You've got a serious problem, not least of which is the hobby of making
shit up in your head and presenting it as fact in a public forum.
Stacia
Anim8rFSK
"waltbrad" <walt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
When did Olbermann start doing a news show?
Jacque1in
Gotta admit, I've had the same thought. Heh!
yD
The woman agreed to talk to Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace did her job.
>
> But, nooooooooo. Nutcase Grace had to go to the jugular for those ratings.
> I suspect the mother was approached in a very sympathetic manner by
> the producers of that show.
"Nutcase Grace?" The producers or anyone from the show who arranged
the interview were doing *their* job, which was to get the interview.
>
> Noone is going to convince me that Nancy Grace had any concern what-so-ever
> other than skewering that woman.
I didn't see the interview, but it may well be that the woman's
reactions to the questions led Nancy Grace to probe further, and raise
her voice (as I heard) to try to get straight, if not honest, answers
to her questions. It may be your *opinion* that NG had no concern
other than skewering the woman, but that doesn't make it true. It may
be that what you call "skewer" is nothing more than NG doing her job:
in this case interviewing a women who claimed her son was taken from
his bed, and when the mother proved evasive, NG got harder. That's
what lawyers do; it's what interviewers do, too.
>
>
> >> If Grace is 1/10th the professional she claims to be, she would have to
> >> know that the woman was very likely a suicide risk.
> >
> > How?
> >
> Professionals who deal with crime are very aware that these people can be
> very
> unstable and are suicide risks. You are either naieve or pretending to be.
I don't think I'm particularly naive, and, frankly, I don't care to be
told, by anyone, that I am pretending to be something or someone I am
not. I'm certainly not naive enough to call a psychiatrist on the
phone and ask for a diagnosis, and treatment for a mental problem. Yet
you think that a woman on the other end of the line, a tv lawyer, not
even a psychiatrist should have known the interviewee was unstable and
a suicide risk. Perhaps you are overestimating the skills and talents
of a lawyer. But you have no comment about the police, who were on the
spot and in a better position to judge the woman's stability did
nothing: by your standards: "Professionals who deal with crime are
very aware that these people can be very unstable and are suicide
risks." But they took no actions toward her safety at all.
>
> You've never heard of inmates being kept in a suicide watch?
She was not, and never will be, an inmate. She was a woman who claimed
her child had been taken from his bedroom. Did her doctor prescribe
anything to help her over this crisis, or to deal with this crisis?
Family and friends available to help and assist her, advise her? Was
there a lawyer, other than Nancy Grace, consulted? What, if anything,
have the police said about her stability? Or, are they like you,
content to pass blame to a television personality? And hadn't she
already bought the gun she used? Doesn't that suggest that the
intention was there, if she had the gun already, I'd say the intention
was there and she would have used it.
>
> >>
> >> Life and death should not be in the hands of a yellow-journalist.
> >
> > Even in this case, I don't think it was. The newly purchased gun, the
> > car seat and clothes being given away or sold -- rumors, I know.
> > But I just can't blame Nancy Grace, except for her wanting to talk to
> > the mother, and that's part of her job. Having said that: it would
> > be interesting to hear the interview, listening for clues as to the
> > fate of the baby or plans for suicide. I wonder if it will ever be
> > aired. I doubt it, unless the police release it (I'm assuming the
> > police have a copy of the tape.)
> > yD
> >
>
> It's been all over the place. Nancy Grace aired the thing even AFTER the
> woman killed herself.
I didn't see it, nor have I read the transcript. I assume the police
have a copy and, if necessary, they will issue a statement, hopefully
not blaming anyone for this woman's suicide. And it was, after all,
the mother's decision, no one else's. She gets full responsibility,
however posthumously, for her own death and, if the police
investigation continues, as it should, it **may well be** that she was
responsible for the disappearance and death of her son.
yD
Bernie Woodham
>
>> Nobody said she "had" to talk to Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace did not
>> *have to* behave like a pit bull either. She could have backed away if
>> she thought the mother was being dishonest, and then she could have let
>> the police do their job.
>
> The woman agreed to talk to Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace did her job.
>
Here we go....
>> But, nooooooooo. Nutcase Grace had to go to the jugular for those
>> ratings.
>> I suspect the mother was approached in a very sympathetic manner by
>> the producers of that show.
>
> "Nutcase Grace?" The producers or anyone from the show who arranged
> the interview were doing *their* job, which was to get the interview.
And their it is again. What a load of crock. Hey, Saddam Hussein was doing
*his* job, which was running Iraq. Why didn't we leave him alone?
Hey, Osama Bin Laden was just doing *his* job. Nothing wrong with Osama,
right? Okay, he was supposed to have given a fatwah first. Minor detail.
There
are a lot of Arabs who think of him as a big hero and will come to his
defense.
Much the way you are coming to Nancy Grace's defense.
It would be interesting to see Nancy Grace interview herself. I'm sure
there is much
she would pound on the desk about.
yD
I'm not so much coming to her defense as offering an opinion that she's
not a nutcase, and is not in any way, shape or form responsible for the
suicide of another person, imo.
yD
Bernie Woodham
>
.
>
> I don't think I'm particularly naive, and, frankly, I don't care to be
> told, by anyone, that I am pretending to be something or someone I am
> not.
Hey, you know what? It doesn't matter that you "don't care to be told",
just ask Nancy Grace. It doesn't matter. We just have to get to the bottom
of this and the fact is you are either very naive or pretending to be
someone that you aren't.
>
> She was not, and never will be, an inmate. She was a woman who claimed
> her child had been taken from his bedroom. Did her doctor prescribe
> anything to help her over this crisis, or to deal with this crisis?
> Family and friends available to help and assist her, advise her? Was
> there a lawyer, other than Nancy Grace, consulted? What, if anything,
> have the police said about her stability? Or, are they like you,
> content to pass blame to a television personality?
Excuse me???? I'm 'content' to pass blame on a tv personality.
You really want to call that personality?
I think YOU'RE content to say, "fuck the bitch, she was a killer anyway."
Something which you really don't know.
> And hadn't she
> already bought the gun she used? Doesn't that suggest that the
> intention was there, if she had the gun already, I'd say the intention
> was there and she would have used it.
>
I don't know who you are to making these kind of assumptions.
The gun was bought two days before her son disappeared. It might, (MIGHT),
be said that she bought it to kill her son, but you can hardly say she
bought
it to commit suicide.
"Duckett's parents have said Grace's show left Melinda despondent. Her
father told the Orlando Sentinel Thursday that Melinda was "destroyed"
after the taped interview Sept. 7."
So, there you go. The father giving his observation. I suppose his views
aren't as important as Nancy Grace's though, huh?
>
> I didn't see it, nor have I read the transcript. I assume the police
> have a copy and, if necessary, they will issue a statement, hopefully
> not blaming anyone for this woman's suicide. And it was, after all,
> the mother's decision, no one else's.
> She gets full responsibility,
> however posthumously, for her own death and, if the police
> investigation continues, as it should, it **may well be** that she was
> responsible for the disappearance and death of her son.
Nancy Grace was way out of line. Her job is to be a talking head.
She gave up the prosecutor's business a long time ago.
Terry Flahiff
> <Polonius...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:1158204664.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I had the same thought.
>>
>>And I also find Nancy Grace's use of the "our" as in "our show" to be
>>telling. "Our" rather spreads the collective blame, I think.
>
>
> If somebody could find a way of removing that frightening woman from the
> public eye forever, I'll attend 2 Jessica Simpson concerts, watch 3 Natalie
> Portman films in a row and sleep with David Gest.
>
>
If somebody could find a way of removing that frightening woman from the
Simpson films in a row and sleep with Natalie Portman.
yaffa...@aol.com
Bernie Woodham wrote:
> "yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1158346881.6...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> .
> >
> > I don't think I'm particularly naive, and, frankly, I don't care to be
> > told, by anyone, that I am pretending to be something or someone I am
> > not.
>
> Hey, you know what? It doesn't matter that you "don't care to be told",
> just ask Nancy Grace. It doesn't matter. We just have to get to the bottom
> of this and the fact is you are either very naive or pretending to be
> someone that you aren't.
I disagree and have the advantage of knowing myself better than you do.
But I do see that *you* don't care to be disagreed with. And, hey,
you know what, I don't care!
>
> >
> > She was not, and never will be, an inmate. She was a woman who claimed
> > her child had been taken from his bedroom. Did her doctor prescribe
> > anything to help her over this crisis, or to deal with this crisis?
> > Family and friends available to help and assist her, advise her? Was
> > there a lawyer, other than Nancy Grace, consulted? What, if anything,
> > have the police said about her stability? Or, are they like you,
> > content to pass blame to a television personality?
>
> Excuse me???? I'm 'content' to pass blame on a tv personality.
> You really want to call that personality?
This is not a discussion, now is it? Name calling means you've lost,
love.
>
> I think YOU'RE content to say, "fuck the bitch, she was a killer anyway."
> Something which you really don't know.
But you think I say something that I don't know. You know what:
you're wrong -- *again* I wouldn't say that about the woman who killed
herself, whether I knew or not that she was a murderer. So, wrong,
wrong wrong.
>
> > And hadn't she
> > already bought the gun she used? Doesn't that suggest that the
> > intention was there, if she had the gun already, I'd say the intention
> > was there and she would have used it.
> >
> I don't know who you are to making these kind of assumptions.
What! I am a person giving my opinion on a news group.
>
> The gun was bought two days before her son disappeared. It might, (MIGHT),
> be said that she bought it to kill her son, but you can hardly say she
> bought
> it to commit suicide.
Okay, she didn't buy it to commit suicide. Did she use that gun to
commit suicide?
>
> "Duckett's parents have said Grace's show left Melinda despondent. Her
> father told the Orlando Sentinel Thursday that Melinda was "destroyed"
> after the taped interview Sept. 7."
Ah, totally objective sources. All I can say is that a person who
commits suicide is the one responsible. Someone else said that she (I
think) would not commit suicide or a mother would not commit suicide
while a child was missing. For most people, it is not a spontaneous
decision, gee that Nancy Grace sure made me really sad, I think I'll
kill myself.
And you call me naive.
yD
JessicaG
> woman killed herself.
All over where? I want to see it.
Bernie Woodham
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-58237...@news.west.cox.net...
Olbermann, does analysis of the news. That is a news show. It is a show
that involves the news. I think that makes it a news show.
Did you think it was "freinds" or something?
Bernie Woodham
<yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158354294.8...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bernie Woodham wrote:
>> "yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1158346881.6...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> .
>> >
>> > I don't think I'm particularly naive, and, frankly, I don't care to be
>> > told, by anyone, that I am pretending to be something or someone I am
>> > not.
>>
>> Hey, you know what? It doesn't matter that you "don't care to be told",
>> just ask Nancy Grace. It doesn't matter. We just have to get to the
>> bottom
>> of this and the fact is you are either very naive or pretending to be
>> someone that you aren't.
>
> I disagree and have the advantage of knowing myself better than you do.
> But I do see that *you* don't care to be disagreed with. And, hey,
> you know what, I don't care!
>
times
people can know you better than you do by the way you respond.
For instance, you say you don't care, but you care enough to respond.
You say that *I* don't care to be disagreed with, but you've made just as
many posts disagreeing. So, maybe *you* don't like being disagreed with.
The whole point of saying what I said above was to illustrate NGs attitude;
which *you* obviously do not like.
>> >
>> > She was not, and never will be, an inmate. She was a woman who claimed
>> > her child had been taken from his bedroom. Did her doctor prescribe
>> > anything to help her over this crisis, or to deal with this crisis?
>> > Family and friends available to help and assist her, advise her? Was
>> > there a lawyer, other than Nancy Grace, consulted? What, if anything,
>> > have the police said about her stability? Or, are they like you,
>> > content to pass blame to a television personality?
>>
>> Excuse me???? I'm 'content' to pass blame on a tv personality.
>> You really want to call that personality?
>
Name calling? I haven't called you anything. I simply expressed my dim
view of NG's so called "personality".
The fact that you take that so personally says to me that *you've* lost this
discussion.
love.
> This is not a discussion, now is it? Name calling means you've lost,
> love.
>>
>> I think YOU'RE content to say, "fuck the bitch, she was a killer anyway."
>> Something which you really don't know.
>
> But you think I say something that I don't know. You know what:
> you're wrong -- *again* I wouldn't say that about the woman who killed
> herself, whether I knew or not that she was a murderer. So, wrong,
> wrong wrong.
>
But you don't seem to care much about her being humiliated on television.
It's like you're saying that because she is a suspect, she has no right to
expect
decent treatment. You really do come across as being very dismissive of her
life.
And Nancy Grace also comes across that way.
>>
>> > And hadn't she
>> > already bought the gun she used? Doesn't that suggest that the
>> > intention was there, if she had the gun already, I'd say the intention
>> > was there and she would have used it.
>> >
>> I don't know who you are to making these kind of assumptions.
>
> What! I am a person giving my opinion on a news group.
>
Sure, you're giving an opinion in a newsgroup. But you're basis for that
opinion is
wrong. So, I'm right in questioning you for making those assumptions.
>>
>> The gun was bought two days before her son disappeared. It might,
>> (MIGHT),
>> be said that she bought it to kill her son, but you can hardly say she
>> bought
>> it to commit suicide.
>
> Okay, she didn't buy it to commit suicide. Did she use that gun to
> commit suicide?
>
No, in fact, she didn't. She used her grandfather's gun. But that is
irrelevant.
You were opining, based on your flawed assumptions, that she bought a gun
just prior to commiting suicide. And the insinuation was she was planning it
ahead of time.
Thus, absolving NG. Well, you're wrong. And the circumstances show no
intent to commit suicide prior to being interviewed by Nancy Grace.
>
>> "Duckett's parents have said Grace's show left Melinda despondent. Her
>> father told the Orlando Sentinel Thursday that Melinda was "destroyed"
>> after the taped interview Sept. 7."
>
> Ah, totally objective sources.
As though you've been really objective about it. Or Nancy Grace. So now
you're saying her parents aren't to be believed because they actually knew
her.
So, what? You have to turn to NG for the truth. And of course Nancy wants
to point the finger somewhere else, just like the criminals she condemns
everynight.
>All I can say is that a person who
> commits suicide is the one responsible. Someone else said that she (I
> think) would not commit suicide or a mother would not commit suicide
> while a child was missing.
I feel like others, that this person does have something to do with the
disappearance
of her child. Unlike you and others that have posted, I still believe she
had rights and
that the investigation should have been conducted by the police, NOT Nancy
Grace.
Is the Duckett woman responsible for her own death? Absolutely. But, that
does NOT
absolve NG from using her position irresponsibly. And she DID contribute
to that
girls suicide.
> For most people, it is not a spontaneous
> decision,
Who are you to speak for "most people" who commit suicide???
How do you know it is not a spontaneous decision?
And just what do you mean by "spontaneous"?? She killed herself
some hours after the show, not immediately after she hung up.
And her parents state that she was despondent, that she felt destroyed after
that
interview. So, yes, I believe her suicide was a direct result of that
interview. She
may have been desperate before the interview, but after it felt completely
defeated.
>gee that Nancy Grace sure made me really sad, I think I'll
> kill myself.
> And you call me naive.
> yD
I say that you are VERY naive.
BigEL...@msn.com
Bernie Woodham wrote:
<snip>
>
> Is the Duckett woman responsible for her own death? Absolutely. But, that
> does NOT
> absolve NG from using her position irresponsibly. And she DID contribute
> to that
> girls suicide.
>
> > For most people, it is not a spontaneous
> > decision,
>
> Who are you to speak for "most people" who commit suicide???
> How do you know it is not a spontaneous decision?
> And just what do you mean by "spontaneous"?? She killed herself
> some hours after the show, not immediately after she hung up.
And, who are you to speak for Melinda Duckett? How do you know what was
going on in her head. You just contradicted yourself with that comment.
>
> And her parents state that she was despondent, that she felt destroyed after
> that
> interview. So, yes, I believe her suicide was a direct result of that
> interview. She
> may have been desperate before the interview, but after it felt completely
> defeated.
But her parents didn't say she was despondent and felt felt destroyed
after killing her son? I'm sure GUILT and not wanting to own up the the
fact that she killed her son had NOTHING to do with her suicide, huh?
NG "might" have pushed the right buttons, something LE should have done
TWO wks earlier and maybe they wouldn't be out in the Ocala National
Forest today searching HUNDREDS of miles of THICK woods. IF, that is
where she dumped the body, I doubt if it will be found now because that
place is full of wild animals that would have dragged the body off for
a meal by now.
I'm glad the bitch killed herself, but she could have waited until she
told the authorities where the body was. Saved the tax payers some
money, especially me, since I'm a Fl resident.
BTW, did you happen to see the bullshit map explaining her whereabouts
on the day in question? What a crock of shit.
Bernie Woodham
<BigEL...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1158411266.0...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bernie Woodham wrote:
>>
>> Who are you to speak for "most people" who commit suicide???
>> How do you know it is not a spontaneous decision?
>> And just what do you mean by "spontaneous"?? She killed herself
>> some hours after the show, not immediately after she hung up.
>
> And, who are you to speak for Melinda Duckett? How do you know what was
> going on in her head. You just contradicted yourself with that comment.
>
I'm not speaking for Melinda Duckett. I'm stating fact. Big difference.
>> And her parents state that she was despondent, that she felt destroyed
>> after
>> that
>> interview. So, yes, I believe her suicide was a direct result of that
>> interview. She
>> may have been desperate before the interview, but after it felt
>> completely
>> defeated.
>
> But her parents didn't say she was despondent and felt felt destroyed
> after killing her son? I'm sure GUILT and not wanting to own up the the
> fact that she killed her son had NOTHING to do with her suicide, huh?
>
I acknowledge she probably had something to do with the disappearance
of her child. I think I stated that elsewhere.
The whole point of what I am saying is that NG was out of line to inject
herself
into this situation and take the law into her own hands. That is
vigilantism.
Had it not been for NG the police could very well have gotten her into the
station to confess and been taken into custody - the very way Susan Smith
was.
> NG "might" have pushed the right buttons, something LE should have done
> TWO wks earlier and maybe they wouldn't be out in the Ocala National
> Forest today searching HUNDREDS of miles of THICK woods. IF, that is
> where she dumped the body, I doubt if it will be found now because that
> place is full of wild animals that would have dragged the body off for
> a meal by now.
>
Yeah, yeah. That's the answer. The police should have got her to kill
herself.
That would really have found the child.
NG did not get a confession. NG did not "solve" the case. The child is
missing and the police have no idea where to find it.
Push her buttons? At least you admit that NG was manipulating her. The
other
poster is naive enough to believe NG was "just doing her job".
> I'm glad the bitch killed herself, but she could have waited until she
> told the authorities where the body was. Saved the tax payers some
> money, especially me, since I'm a Fl resident.
>
Yes, I can read that attitude in your comments. Fl doesn't have a state
income tax, so most other people in this country pay more in taxes than
you do anyway.
>
> BTW, did you happen to see the bullshit map explaining her whereabouts
> on the day in question? What a crock of shit.
>
It is obvious she didn't have a very coherent alibi. I'm sure the police
saw
through her story as well as anyone else. People are really too vindictive
about
these type of crimes. When a mother kills her own child there is something
really
amiss. I'm not saying it's a rare crime. I'm not taken in by the image of
a loving
mother. But when women have problems parenting everyone around her
usually knows it. Why isn't there more intervention in these cases?
Probably because it would cost the taxpayers too much money? But if that's
the
case then why get so concerned about the child *after* it's dead?
A.
waltbrad wrote:
> Michael O'Connor wrote:
> > I don't think the Nancy Grace show can be blamed, nobody forced her to
> > sit down with Nancy for an interview. That woman should have expected
> > to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace given the kind of show
> > she does.
>
> You're talking about a 21 year old woman. Not everybody is so into the
> nightly news that they know that pitbulls like Nancy Grace are out
> there waiting to take a bite.
>
> I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to say that she "should have
> expected to be grilled quite aggressively by Nancy Grace..."
>
> 21 year olds are not all that into news.
I'm way older than that - but I'd NEVER seen Nancy Grace until
this interview - and was shocked. I guess I've switched her off the
second she comes on. My daughters have no clue who she is -
and are as shocked as I am, at her demeanor.
I think people who decide that all members of society are like
themselves, know the same things they know, and think like they
do - and on top of that, judge other people by that standard are not
only assholes, they're pretty stupid.
My daughter (19), said quietly, "Well, of course you'd sell the
carseat - to get money for posters and detectives and stuff. You
can always get another carseat." We've both watched people
dealing with tragedies have yardsales (almost immediate) to raise
funds for a desperate cause, and it's very sad. We believe in
donating to these people, not hating them.
If one suspected that one's former husband was involved in some
way, one might do exactly that.
So - while the husband apparently didn't reveal anything pertinent
on the lie detector test - that doesn't exonerate him, from my point
of view. What makes you all think the woman killed her child?
A.
BigEL...@msn.com
Get caught up on ALL the info about the case and then ask, why. It's
pretty obvious now that she did in fact kill the child and then
disposed of his body OR she gave the child away to someone. Bottom line
is, nobody took the child from his crib through a 10" slit in the
screen while she was watching TV!
BTW, the carseat was up for sale BEFORE the child was missing.
A.
I have twin cousins who climbed through a slit smaller than that -
and at a slightly older age. What would be the diameter of the hole
if the radius of the cut was 10 inches? What if the toddler knew
the person on the other side and simply reached for that person?
Wouldn't it seem fun and exciting to some toddlers to go out a window?
Was the childseat for children up to age 2.5? Most of them are age
graded. There are three grades - at least. At a certain point, you
can get that smaller seat - which is much easier to deal with.
I didn't know the seat was for sale before he died - but now it has
even less relevance to me. Why not put his crib up for sale too? Why
advertise that you're getting rid of your kid before you kill him?
If you're planning that closely to kill a child, why leave a trail?
Oh, I know. Everyone is stupid.
If she _did_ do it, well then, she's dead and gone. If she didn't
do it, Nancy Grace killed her. Personally, I think justice is better
left to the justice system, but that's just me.
Notice that, since we will never know (apparently) whether Nancy
killed the woman, I can - precisely on the kinds of evidence - simply
assume she's a murderer. How's that? Let's just all play
Nancy Grace. It's sort of fun. When I discover my own inner Nancy
Grace, guess what? It makes me CERTAIN Nancy Grace is a brutal
killer - of the psychic vampire type.
Amazing she's extolling herself - and others extoll her. An entire
cult of vampires.
People who do have their children kidnapped often experience up to
months of profound disassociation. Some become so depressed they
begin to believe they were responsible for the death in some way,
a few will even confess - and the police have to call in mental
health
professionals. I'd sort of like to leave all this in the hands of the
police and the mental health professionals.
At any rate, playing the Nancy Grace game provides me with a way
of tolerating Nancy Grace. She'll probably gag on her own panties
during her self-pleasuring and die.
A.
A.
jeremyfive wrote:
> Jenny Jones was far more talented than Nancy Grace--the latter is
> insulting to the intellect. I felt very badly when Jones had her guest
> problems (terrible incident).
>
> low-brow shows like "Nancy Grace" and "Glenn Beck"? Both of these
> shows are a waste. And both step over ethical lines.
>
> worthy of the news-end of the network?
>
> to the channel changer whenever he launches one of his quirky,
> right-wing opinions--while pretending to be nonpartisan.)
>
Here's the contact form for CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4a.html?1
They either need to quit pretending to be a news organization or fire
Nancy Grace.
A.
BigEL...@msn.com
It was a SLIT. Not a circle. And the person would of had to reach in
with one arm, reach down probably about 3 ft, lift the kid up, and then
pull him through a 10" slit in a screen, all w/o the kid making a
sound. Maybe "Stretch" from the "Fantastic 4" could have done this but
not your ordinary human. If you gonna take a kid out a window wouldn't
it be easier to just, remove the screen? Seems to me that she didn't do
that because it might draw attention to it sonner than she wanted, so
she just put a slit in it.
And at the age of 2, what child in gonna respond to someone he "knows"
in the middle of the night standing outside a window? Please.
Plus the fact that everyone the child "knew" has been questioned and is
not under suspicion. <G>
>
> Was the childseat for children up to age 2.5? Most of them are age
> graded. There are three grades - at least. At a certain point, you
> can get that smaller seat - which is much easier to deal with.
Most ppl would purchase a new one before selling the old one. Hey, it
may not mean nothing, just something to think about.
>
> I didn't know the seat was for sale before he died - but now it has
> even less relevance to me. Why not put his crib up for sale too? Why
> advertise that you're getting rid of your kid before you kill him?
> If you're planning that closely to kill a child, why leave a trail?
> Oh, I know. Everyone is stupid.
Don't ask me, I'm not the physco that killed my kid. If you don't think
there was something bizarre going on inside her head, just go read some
of her "My Space" postings.
>
> If she _did_ do it, well then, she's dead and gone. If she didn't
> do it, Nancy Grace killed her. Personally, I think justice is better
> left to the justice system, but that's just me.
She did do it and NG didn't kill anyone. She killed herself out of
guilt and not wanting to face up to what she did, IMO. "Maybe" if LE
would of asked some of the same questions that NG did, she would have
confessed in a controlled environment and we would know what she did
with the kid.
>
> Notice that, since we will never know (apparently) whether Nancy
> killed the woman, I can - precisely on the kinds of evidence - simply
> assume she's a murderer. How's that? Let's just all play
> Nancy Grace. It's sort of fun. When I discover my own inner Nancy
> Grace, guess what? It makes me CERTAIN Nancy Grace is a brutal
> killer - of the psychic vampire type.
> Amazing she's extolling herself - and others extoll her. An entire
> cult of vampires.
Jesus Christ. NG didn't kill anyone. LOL
>
>
> People who do have their children kidnapped often experience up to
> months of profound disassociation. Some become so depressed they
> begin to believe they were responsible for the death in some way,
> a few will even confess - and the police have to call in mental
> health
> professionals. I'd sort of like to leave all this in the hands of the
> police and the mental health professionals.
And ppl that have their kids kidnapped and have nothing to hide, will
take a polygraph immediately to clear themself so the cops can start
looking in another direction, right?
Why didn't she? The ex-husband did.
Also her explanation of how she spent her day on the day in question,
only happens in bizzaro world. Just take a look at the map of where she
said she was at for at least 8 of the hours on that day. It makes
absolutely NO sense. Maybe more so to me since I live in and know the
area.
Goro
Taylor (taylor...@gmail.com) wrote:
> Woman Kills Herself After "Aggressive" Interview With Nancy Grace
>
> September 13, 2006 8:46 p.m. EST
>
> Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer
>
> Orlando, FL (AHN) - After an aggressive interview on national
> television, a woman who's child was reportedly stolen from his crib has
> committed suicide.
is this from a Professional writer? should be "... WHOSE child was
reportedly stolen from HER crib..." ?
-goro-
tomcervo
A. wrote:
> I'm way older than that - but I'd NEVER seen Nancy Grace until
> this interview - and was shocked. I guess I've switched her off the
> second she comes on. My daughters have no clue who she is -
> and are as shocked as I am, at her demeanor.
We all know Nancy Grace, under one name or another. I've never seen a
picture or a clip of her in which she didn't look like someone who has
to call around to figure out what happened to her last night, who needs
15 minutes with a toothbrush to wash the cumbreath out of her mouth,and
who shows up at work just waiting to be crossed by an underling so she
can take her rage and/or hangover out on someone safely.
Like the night in question.
FragileWarrior
[..]
> She killed herself
> some hours after the show, not immediately after she hung up.
Wrong. She killed herself BEFORE the show aired. She didn't even know
what would be broadcast, how it would be edited or how she would come
across before she killed herself.
Why are discussing this like you know what happened? You obviously don't.
FragileWarrior
@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Please tell me you don't teach English.
yaffa...@aol.com
My only point is that a person who commits suicide is the *only* person
responsible. Simple as that. No-one and nothing else, not the 'loss'
of her husband, her child, her parents, Nancy Grace. Only the person
who commits suicide. That, imo, is far from naive. I would go so far
as to say by blaming someone or something outside it is taking that
last responsibility from the suicide. If you think differently, you're
entitled.
yD
Bill Schenley
> is the *only* person responsible.
Right. But you have responsibility and cause confused ...
> Simple as that.
...because it's not quite as "simple as that."
> No-one and nothing else, not the 'loss' of her
> husband, her child, her parents, Nancy Grace.
All of the above would be "cause." That doesn't mean that Nancy Grace is
"responsible" ... but the interview with Grace could have been the "cause."
> Only the person who commits suicide.
... Is responsible. But there is always a cause.
> I would go so far as to say by blaming someone or
> something outside it is taking that last responsibility
> from the suicide.
And there can be exceptions to that ...
> If you think differently, you're entitled.
Thanks for that. I feel better, now ...
yD
I'm glad :)
But it is my experience and observation that people don't just decide
to kill themselves and do it there and then. You can say, "straw that
broke the camel's back" or "pushed over the edge," but no-one except
the suide is responsible for the decision and the act.
yD
Bernie Woodham
<yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158589714.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> My only point is that a person who commits suicide is the *only* person
> responsible. Simple as that. No-one and nothing else, not the 'loss'
> of her husband, her child, her parents, Nancy Grace. Only the person
> who commits suicide. That, imo, is far from naive. I would go so far
> as to say by blaming someone or something outside it is taking that
> last responsibility from the suicide. If you think differently, you're
> entitled.
> yD
>
Well, I can certainly respect that and I concede that the suicide was
ultimately her decision. But I'm really bothered by the idea that NG
could actually find support from people for conducting that interview
the way she did, and further, for airing it after the girl's suicide, and
then showing no remorse whatsoever for it.
Scott Peterson gave interviews and was never treated that way.
A.
I think differently. Thank you for entitling me to do so. The
person made their last decision, but as with many decisions people
make, I don't regard most decisions as ONLY personal. I
believe in apportionated liability - and responsibility.
A.
yD
First of all the "girl" was an adult, and when girls are adults, we
call them women.
Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
that responsibility away from her. Was that interview more intense
than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
be more likely to kill yourself over?
yD
Bernie Woodham
"A." <atalanta....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158602150.8...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I think differently. Thank you for entitling me to do so. The
> person made their last decision, but as with many decisions people
> make, I don't regard most decisions as ONLY personal. I
> believe in apportionated liability - and responsibility.
>
> A.
>
Hey, A. I used to believe what you state, about apportionated liability.
And there are many times still where I feel that way. But I have a hard
time justifying that in my mind.
I used to answer the phone at a crisis center. I've handled suicide calls.
It's hard. The only thing you have going for you is the knowledge that if
they really wanted to die, they would not have called: they're still
looking for a reason to live.
But, I've also seen where people can make a real game out of suicide. And
they are very willing to kill theirselves if they know that someone else
would take the blame for it. That's very strange. I'm not saying that
every suicidal person does this. I am saying that they are out there.
While I did this, volunteering at the crisis center, another volunteer did
end up on the losing end of a suicide call. They felt terrible. We had to
assure them over and over that it was the suicide's decision not the
volunteer's.
I don't think Melinda Duckett was playing a game when it came to suicide.
Just my opinion, of course. But I think she saw that she worked her way
into a dead end and did not know how to face it.
But, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Nancy Grace. We have to hope that
police are familiar enough, (or at least bright enough to seek help if they
are not familiar enough), with these suspects that they
know to treat them with kid gloves until they get them into the police
station and can get them to confess. When they have them in a situation
where they cannot harm theirselves.
Nancy Grace, being a former prosecutor, knows the importance of having a
justice system. You try them through the justice system, not on a national
television interview. There is just no way I accept what this vicious tv
host did.
Bernie Woodham
"yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158606257....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bernie Woodham wrote:
>> <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1158589714.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > My only point is that a person who commits suicide is the *only* person
>> > responsible. Simple as that. No-one and nothing else, not the 'loss'
>> > of her husband, her child, her parents, Nancy Grace. Only the person
>> > who commits suicide. That, imo, is far from naive. I would go so far
>> > as to say by blaming someone or something outside it is taking that
>> > last responsibility from the suicide. If you think differently, you're
>> > entitled.
>> > yD
>> >
>>
>> Well, I can certainly respect that and I concede that the suicide was
>> ultimately her decision. But I'm really bothered by the idea that NG
>> could actually find support from people for conducting that interview
>> the way she did, and further, for airing it after the girl's suicide, and
>> then showing no remorse whatsoever for it.
>
> First of all the "girl" was an adult, and when girls are adults, we
> call them women.
>
Legally they are women when they become 18. But I consciousley used the
word
girl, to emphasize her emotional maturity. Just because they turn 18 or 21
does not
automatically make them mature. Because they physically become mothers does
not
mean they are equipped to deal with the realities of motherhood.
And I think your attitude here is very legalistic. Which is a big part of
the problem when
you talk about social issues. The girl may have been legally an adult, but
there is no law that
says we now have to call her an adult if we recognize them for what they
are: girls.
Perhaps, you think a mother killing her child is an act of maturity? I am
not saying she
killed her child, but this seems to be the working assumption.
> Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
> not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
> that responsibility away from her.
Fine. You're bothered that we look for reasons for her action. I am
bothered that
anyone would support NG. You say you are not defending her, but you have
consistently
giving her support when you excuse her from any responsibility.
As I stated, she ULTIMATELY was responsible for that decision. But Nancy
Grace was
way out of line for in treatment she handed out. And I hold NG responsible
for injecting
herself into the investigation that way.
>Was that interview more intense
> than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
> be more likely to kill yourself over?
I don't know. And neither do you.
I know many criminals have been interviewed without the interviewer having
to
resort to the treatment NG displayed.
Answer me this one question: Do you think NG was wrong for conducting that
interview the way she did? I think you are avoiding that.
FragileWarrior
Maybe everyone is sick of coddling obvious murderers and the
interviewers will finally start throwing the hardball questions out
there.
A.
yD wrote:
> Bernie Woodham wrote:
> > <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1158589714.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > My only point is that a person who commits suicide is the *only* person
> > > responsible. Simple as that. No-one and nothing else, not the 'loss'
> > > of her husband, her child, her parents, Nancy Grace. Only the person
> > > who commits suicide. That, imo, is far from naive. I would go so far
> > > as to say by blaming someone or something outside it is taking that
> > > last responsibility from the suicide. If you think differently, you're
> > > entitled.
> > > yD
> > >
> >
> > Well, I can certainly respect that and I concede that the suicide was
> > ultimately her decision. But I'm really bothered by the idea that NG
> > could actually find support from people for conducting that interview
> > the way she did, and further, for airing it after the girl's suicide, and
> > then showing no remorse whatsoever for it.
>
> First of all the "girl" was an adult, and when girls are adults, we
> call them women.
Maybe you and your people do, but me and my people - we don't, not
always. I still call myself a girl, whenever I want to. I call adults
boys
and girls quite frequently, as of course I'm totally into pop
psychology
and believe there's an inner child in everyone.
> Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
> not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
> that responsibility away from her. Was that interview more intense
> than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
> be more likely to kill yourself over?
Depends. If it was the first the woman (whether the killer or not)
clearly
faced her own situation (ceased disassociating for a moment) then yeah,
that conversation could do it.
I thought everyone was aware that if you took a troubled person and
riled them up, you might end up with a mess on your hands. Grace is
obviously not entirely responsible, neither can she be completely
exonerated. If this happened in a different context (say, within a
family),
you'd have even more viewpoints on responsibility. Let's just say
that it's now obvious to me that Grace (and some people here) live
in a different moral universe than some other people do. I doubt there
are only two such universe, but I also doubt we'll ever get back into
one moral plane, all holding hands and singing Kumbayah, ever again.
A.
A.
Bernie Woodham wrote:
> "A." <atalanta....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1158602150.8...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > I think differently. Thank you for entitling me to do so. The
> > person made their last decision, but as with many decisions people
> > make, I don't regard most decisions as ONLY personal. I
> > believe in apportionated liability - and responsibility.
> >
> > A.
> >
>
> Hey, A. I used to believe what you state, about apportionated liability.
> And there are many times still where I feel that way. But I have a hard
> time justifying that in my mind.
I find that it's situational for me - and this is a situation where I
believe
it applies.
>
> I used to answer the phone at a crisis center. I've handled suicide calls.
> It's hard. The only thing you have going for you is the knowledge that if
> they really wanted to die, they would not have called: they're still
> looking for a reason to live.
And, you didn't consciously do and say things that would have increased
their chances of killing themselves. Quite the opposite.
>
> But, I've also seen where people can make a real game out of suicide. And
> they are very willing to kill theirselves if they know that someone else
> would take the blame for it. That's very strange. I'm not saying that
> every suicidal person does this. I am saying that they are out there.
If that turns out to be the case (and I don't know how we'll know), I'd
agree that it's 100% the suicide gameplayer's fault. But, as you know,
many suicidal people can be persuaded or helped not to kill themselves.
I'm not saying this particular one should have been, I'm just saying
that
I don't think TV journalists should see it as their role to corner
murderers
and induce them to commit suicide. I truly don't. I don't think it
helps
to prevent future crimes, and in fact, probably makes many people
feel frightened about seeking aid for their impulses, knowing they will
be reviled. Where is the public face of compassion? Nowhere to be
seen - not just in this case, but anywhere. I work with young people,
and they really do believe that older people represent reality, many
times.
Which is fine - but let's not abuse the role.
>
> While I did this, volunteering at the crisis center, another volunteer did
> end up on the losing end of a suicide call. They felt terrible. We had to
> assure them over and over that it was the suicide's decision not the
> volunteer's.
See, this is why I'm having SO much trouble with Nancy Grace. I have
a friend who worked 911 and became severely depressed after a
particular
suicide. It seems a natural risk of the job, though - as many people
would
naturally feel connected in some way to the death and will interpret
that
connection empathically, and feel badly (even if the dead person would
have
harmed more people had they stayed alive). We try to train the police
to
capture even the worst people without substantially harming them.
Would
we permit the police to interrogate in this manner, without a lawyer
present?
So, people who go into service professions feel deep responsibilities
for
others - and Nancy Grace does not. I don't feel like encouraging the
Nancy
Graces of this world. In fact, I'm opposed to them.
>
> I don't think Melinda Duckett was playing a game when it came to suicide.
> Just my opinion, of course. But I think she saw that she worked her way
> into a dead end and did not know how to face it.
Good way of putting it - I agree that's the best interpretation.
>
> But, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Nancy Grace. We have to hope that
> police are familiar enough, (or at least bright enough to seek help if they
> are not familiar enough), with these suspects that they
> know to treat them with kid gloves until they get them into the police
> station and can get them to confess. When they have them in a situation
> where they cannot harm theirselves.
Exactly. Good words.
>
> Nancy Grace, being a former prosecutor, knows the importance of having a
> justice system. You try them through the justice system, not on a national
> television interview. There is just no way I accept what this vicious tv
> host did.
Thanks - I totally agree. I can't stand by and watch this kind of
thing
as a spectacle, it's ugly and horrifying - I was truly shocked. I know
lots
of prosecutors, as well, and most of them have been far more humane.
People on Death Row receive much better treatment, in general, from
both the prison system and their fellow inmates, as do people who are
suspected of crimes (and when the police err in this way, we're right
to
be appalled).
A.
And good on you, mate for volunteering at that hotline - I couldn't do
it.
yD
A. wrote:
> yD wrote:
... snip for space ...
> >
> > First of all the "girl" was an adult, and when girls are adults, we
> > call them women.
>
> Maybe you and your people do, but me and my people - we don't, not
> always. I still call myself a girl, whenever I want to. I call adults
> boys
> and girls quite frequently, as of course I'm totally into pop
> psychology
> and believe there's an inner child in everyone.
Well, lucky you exercising freedom of choice to make yourself a girl
instead of a woman. I'm a woman and have been for a long time.
>
> > Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
> > not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
> > that responsibility away from her. Was that interview more intense
> > than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
> > be more likely to kill yourself over?
>
> Depends. If it was the first the woman (whether the killer or not)
> clearly
> faced her own situation (ceased disassociating for a moment) then yeah,
> that conversation could do it.
Sorry, this level of pop psychology is beyond my plain thinking, honey
-- it is okay to call you honey, I hope. Girls are all, y'know sugar
and spice, so please let me know if "hooney" offends.
>
> I thought everyone was aware that if you took a troubled person and
> riled them up, you might end up with a mess on your hands. Grace is
> obviously not entirely responsible, neither can she be completely
> exonerated. If this happened in a different context (say, within a
> family),
> you'd have even more viewpoints on responsibility. Let's just say
> that it's now obvious to me that Grace (and some people here) live
> in a different moral universe than some other people do.
Well, I don't know about anyone else, girlie, but my universe is called
"reality." Drop the pop psych and the girlie stuff and come join us.
You get to talk back to the big men, which, of course, girls can do
that too but don't get taken seriously. An indulgent smile, a little
pat on the head. Sweet on girls but damn embarrassing when women
pretend to be girls, and the big boys let them.
I doubt there
> are only two such universe, but I also doubt we'll ever get back into
> one moral plane, all holding hands and singing Kumbayah, ever again.
Well, I never joined hands and sang Kumbayah, ever and frankly don't
intend starting now, but if the mood takes, you go right ahead: girls
have so much more leeway in these matters than women. In the real
world that is.
yD
yaffa...@aol.com
So you're saying that this woman has no responsibility toward her own
death by her own hand!
>
> And I think your attitude here is very legalistic.
Interesting. I thought I was being somewhat emotional in, at least, my
argument that she and absolutely no-one else is or can be held
responsible for her suicide.
Which is a big part of
> the problem when
> you talk about social issues. The girl may have been legally an adult, but
> there is no law that
> says we now have to call her an adult if we recognize them for what they
> are: girls.
She made a mature decision. Then she acted on that decision. You and
I may not agree with what she did, but she did it, by herself.
>
> Perhaps, you think a mother killing her child is an act of maturity? I am
> not saying she
> killed her child, but this seems to be the working assumption.
It's no my working assumptioon. I have said that the break up of her
marriage and the loss of her child imo played a greater part in her
decision to kill herslef than Nancy Grace ever could have.
>
> > Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
> > not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
> > that responsibility away from her.
>
> Fine. You're bothered that we look for reasons for her action. I am
> bothered that
> anyone would support NG. You say you are not defending her, but you have
> consistently
> giving her support when you excuse her from any responsibility.
I think you're confusing my saying that a suicide and only a suicide is
responsible. I think it is demeaning to call this woman a girl and say
that she was immature. Does that apply to all suicides or just this
one where a public person is involved. If I say to someone that you
have upset me and I go home and shoot myself will you say you bear
responsibility?
>
> As I stated, she ULTIMATELY was responsible for that decision. But Nancy
> Grace was
> way out of line for in treatment she handed out. And I hold NG responsible
> for injecting
> herself into the investigation that way.
And the husband and the kidnapper have none? The grandparents, the
mother's parents have no responsibility toward their daughter? What
about the police who had her at the top of a suspect list? Wouldn't
that upset her?
>
> >Was that interview more intense
> > than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
> > be more likely to kill yourself over?
>
> I don't know. And neither do you.
Actually, I think if my husband had left me with one child (never mind
the two I had by 21) that would play a bigger role than someone talking
to me about the possibility of my having killed my child.
>
> I know many criminals have been interviewed without the interviewer having
> to
> resort to the treatment NG displayed.
"displayed" She asked questions and wouldn't accept evasion. IOW
Nancy Grace was doing her job. Why the woman killed herself, I don't
know, and neither do you.
>
> Answer me this one question: Do you think NG was wrong for conducting that
> interview the way she did? I think you are avoiding that.
I'm absolutely not avoiding that! The whole point of my argument is
that only the woman has responsibility, how Nancy Grace did her job is
irrelevant because imo the woman would have killed herself at another
time. Gee, maybe if the cashier at the supermarket was snippy she
would have done it, if her parents or her husband or the police asked
her directly if she had killed her son, she would have done it, if
there was no strawberry yoghurt in the 'fridge she would have done it.
I've already said that the interview may have been the last straw,
which is a long way from saying that anyone but this woman is
*responsible* for her own death.
And fwiw in the past, I too answered a suicide line, but it doesn't
make me any more of an expert than it does you. Suicides are suicides
and all too often, those left behind go through hell trying to figure
it out. Nancy Grace is no more responsible than her husband, her
parents, whoever took the child -- but in the last resort the woman
herself made her decision, took her action and is totally and wholly
responsible for it. Now, if you want to infantilize (read coddle) this
woman, go right ahead. I think she and only she is responsible and
have said it often enough, now.
yD
Bernie Woodham
<yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158688936.6...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
You keep going over and over the same ground. I have "repeatedly" said
that ULTIMATELY the decision was hers. Now, maybe if you read that
three times outloud to yourself I won't have to repeat it AGAIN?
And it makes no sense to bring that up in response to what I just said.
I was talking about her emotional maturity as it applied to the
responsibilities
of motherhood. Suddenly you stretch this to her suicide??? What are you
saying here, that motherhood is suicide?
Stay to the point, please.
>>
>> And I think your attitude here is very legalistic.
>
> Interesting. I thought I was being somewhat emotional in, at least, my
> argument that she and absolutely no-one else is or can be held
> responsible for her suicide.
>
Emotional, probably. That doesn't mean you're not also legalistic.
> Which is a big part of
>> the problem when
>> you talk about social issues. The girl may have been legally an adult,
>> but
>> there is no law that
>> says we now have to call her an adult if we recognize them for what they
>> are: girls.
>
> She made a mature decision. Then she acted on that decision. You and
> I may not agree with what she did, but she did it, by herself.
I don't believe this girl ever made a mature decision. I believe she was
immature.
>>
>> Perhaps, you think a mother killing her child is an act of maturity? I
>> am
>> not saying she
>> killed her child, but this seems to be the working assumption.
>
> It's no my working assumptioon. I have said that the break up of her
> marriage and the loss of her child imo played a greater part in her
> decision to kill herslef than Nancy Grace ever could have.
>
You don't know that. And I disagree. If that were true, why didn't she
kill herself during or after the divorce? If it were the loss of her
child, why
didn't she kill herself then? ( Afterall, you ARE assuming that she killed
her
child. That's why you support NG; you can deny it all you want, but you
ARE
defending NG.)
But she only killed herself AFTER the interview with NG. That was the event
that immediately preceded her suicide.
So, you could say that there were pressures building up on her and that NG's
interview was the last straw; but that only reaffirms my point that NG
played
a big role in the suicide.
>> > Secondly, I am not defending Nancy Grace but I am saying that she did
>> > not make this woman kill herself. And, I'm bothered that anyone takes
>> > that responsibility away from her.
>>
>> Fine. You're bothered that we look for reasons for her action. I am
>> bothered that
>> anyone would support NG. You say you are not defending her, but you
>> have
>> consistently
>> giving her support when you excuse her from any responsibility.
>
> I think you're confusing my saying that a suicide and only a suicide is
> responsible. I think it is demeaning to call this woman a girl and say
> that she was immature. Does that apply to all suicides or just this
> one where a public person is involved. If I say to someone that you
> have upset me and I go home and shoot myself will you say you bear
> responsibility?
>
You think it's demeaning to call her a girl, but it's just fine if NG's
interview
humiliates her on national tv??? Whew, you do have a strange sense of
values.
If you go home and shoot yourself because of something that was said in NG
thread? No, I'd say that you seriously needed some help. There was no
way
that I could have known that.
However, as I have said repeatedly and you deny repeatedly, (as though NG
was some sort of innocent little lamb), Nancy Grace knew this girl was a
babe in the woods. She knew that girl was not giving people the full
story;
NG used her for ratings. Period. And NG, being involved in crime and
criminal cases for quite some time now, should have known (and in fact I
think she knew or just didn't care to think about it), that this girl could
be
vulnerable to suicide.
You think that is a stupid assumption. I think you are naive for that.
>
>> As I stated, she ULTIMATELY was responsible for that decision. But
>> Nancy
>> Grace was
>> way out of line for in treatment she handed out. And I hold NG
>> responsible
>> for injecting
>> herself into the investigation that way.
>
> And the husband and the kidnapper have none? The grandparents, the
> mother's parents have no responsibility toward their daughter? What
> about the police who had her at the top of a suspect list? Wouldn't
> that upset her?
>
The police did not publicly state that she was a suspect until AFTER her
suicide.
So, no she wasn't bothered by it. The police were probably doing just what
they
should have done: using kid gloves with her until they got her into the
confines of
and investigating room and THEN got her to confess.
Recall Susan Smith? Remember how they did that?
And I never said anything about the parents, husband, grand parents. Only
you
did that. Yes, I'm sure there was a lot of responsibility to be shared.
But we are
talking about a nationally televised interview that was totally denunciating
her. The
parents, the grandparents, the husband, did not conduct that interview.
It seems that you are taking things way off point in the hopes that if you
throw enough
crap at the wall, maybe something will stick. I am talking about NG's
irresponsibility.
You are trying like all get out, to avoid the point.
>
>> >Was that interview more intense
>> > than separating from her husband? Losing her child? Which would you
>> > be more likely to kill yourself over?
>>
>> I don't know. And neither do you.
>
> Actually, I think if my husband had left me with one child (never mind
> the two I had by 21) that would play a bigger role than someone talking
> to me about the possibility of my having killed my child.
>
That's you. But I think it's very probable that this girl was the killer
and that
she was trying to cover up. To have that cover blown on national
television
in a very abrupt manner, I think could very well have devastated her
>
>> I know many criminals have been interviewed without the interviewer
>> having
>> to
>> resort to the treatment NG displayed.
>
> "displayed" She asked questions and wouldn't accept evasion. IOW
> Nancy Grace was doing her job. Why the woman killed herself, I don't
> know, and neither do you.
>
Right. She "displayed" that. She "exhibited" that. She "presented" that.
This person is on the television every night. She is a performer. You seem
to regard her as some sort of arbiter of truth. She is not. She is a
one-time
prosector who is now a tabloid journalist.
She was doing her job only in the sense that she was taking a tragedy and
turning it in to a soap-opera spectacle for the tittilation of people like
you.
Her job is NOT to usurp the role of police in investigating crimes.
Just tell me what good has come from that interview? Did Nancy Grace
"solve" the crime? Did she find the child? Has she brought us any closer
to finding the child. The answer is no, no and no. All the interview did
was send someone off to kill theirselves.
>
>> Answer me this one question: Do you think NG was wrong for conducting
>> that
>> interview the way she did? I think you are avoiding that.
>
> I'm absolutely not avoiding that! The whole point of my argument is
> that only the woman has responsibility, how Nancy Grace did her job is
> irrelevant because imo the woman would have killed herself at another
> time.
I disagree with that. I think the police would have taken her to the
station and got her to confess. And the case would be solved. Too bad
that you have more faith in a tabloid journalist than you do in the police
theirselves. You say how she did her job is irrelevant. But then you
consistently
say that she was doing her job! How NG "did her job" is quite relevant:
it interfered in the investigation by upsetting what is probably the only
witness
to the crime. Upset them so bad that they killed theirself and the child's
body
may never be found. The case may never be solved.
Why don't you just go back to reading Nancy Drew stories if you want
that kind of fiction?
>Gee, maybe if the cashier at the supermarket was snippy she
> would have done it, if her parents or her husband or the police asked
> her directly if she had killed her son, she would have done it, if
> there was no strawberry yoghurt in the 'fridge she would have done it.
>
This seems to be a habit of yours. You minimize Grace's involvement
by making the victim of her visciousness seem overly sensitive.
It was'nt the cashier at the supermarket that conducted that inquistion on
national tv. And you are using totally hypothetical situations. The fact
is
the police would not have confronted her until they had her in the station.
The parents, grandparents and even the husband seem as though they were
trying to be supportive. That is the way Nancy Grace should have been.
If she couldn't do that, she should not have done the interview.
> I've already said that the interview may have been the last straw,
> which is a long way from saying that anyone but this woman is
> *responsible* for her own death.
> And fwiw in the past, I too answered a suicide line, but it doesn't
> make me any more of an expert than it does you. Suicides are suicides
I never said or tried to pretend that it made me an expert. But I have
never come up with a know-it-all phrase like "Suicides are suicides" either.
I disagree with that assessment.
> and all too often, those left behind go through hell trying to figure
> it out. Nancy Grace is no more responsible than her husband, her
> parents, whoever took the child --
You are wrong. You are just wrong about that. Nancy Grace conducted
an inquisition on NATIONAL TELEVISION THAT SHE DID NOT HAVE
TO! Yes, she is more responsible. Yes, she was way out of line. Yes, she
did
have something to do with that suicide. Yes, she did.
The husband did not conduct the interview on national television, the
grandparents
did not conduct that interview on national television, the parents did not
conduct
that interview on national television.
There is only one person who conducted that interview on national
television. And
guess who that was? That was Nancy Grace.
>but in the last resort the woman
> herself made her decision, took her action and is totally and wholly
> responsible for it. Now, if you want to infantilize (read coddle) this
> woman, go right ahead.
Of course you'll use that slander. And that's what it is, slander. Because
I am
NOT coddling anyone. I am saying Nancy Grace has no right to play judge,
jury
and executioner. That is not "coddling", that is respecting our system of
justice.
The fact that you can't get that, tells me that you are very much a
vigilante.
>I think she and only she is responsible and
> have said it often enough, now.
> yD
>
Yes, and I say she is "ultimately" responsible. but Nancy Grace most
certainly
was out of line and shares some responsibility.
yD
Bernie Woodham wrote:.. snip to point ...
>
> You keep going over and over the same ground. I have "repeatedly" said
> that ULTIMATELY the decision was hers. Now, maybe if you read that
> three times outloud to yourself I won't have to repeat it AGAIN?
Ah, no, it is I who is saying over and over that the decision was hers
and you are bound and determined to pass blame to Nancy Grace.
This morning I read that the mother had thrown away not only her sons
toys, but photographs. That seems to me to be the root cause of her
suicide: she killed her son.
... snip...
> >I think she and only she is responsible and
> > have said it often enough, now.
> > yD
> >
> Yes, and I say she is "ultimately" responsible. but Nancy Grace most
> certainly
> was out of line and shares some responsibility.
And I say again, no-one else was responsible for her decision or her
action.
yD
Bernie Woodham
>
>
snip to point...
> And I say again, no-one else was responsible for her decision or her
> action.
>
And so it is the way I always said it was. You ARE defending Nancy Grace.
And very much like NG you want to minimize her involvement, even though
the suicide didn't happen until right after that interview.
yD
You know what, Bernie, I think there's something wrong with you.
yD
Bernie Woodham
Well, I think the same about you. I find it truly curious that you will
defend
Nancy Grace and at the same time deny that you're doing it.
I think that is very odd and I do not understand it, but I think very hard
about
it.
yaffa...@aol.com
Bernie Woodham wrote:
> "yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1158777250.1...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Bernie Woodham wrote:
> >> "yD" <yaffa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1158760314....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> snip to point...
> >>
> >>
> >> > And I say again, no-one else was responsible for her decision or her
> >> > action.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And so it is the way I always said it was. You ARE defending Nancy Grace.
> >> And very much like NG you want to minimize her involvement, even though
> >> the suicide didn't happen until right after that interview.
> >
> > You know what, Bernie, I think there's something wrong with you.
> > yD
> >
>
> Well, I think the same about you. I find it truly curious that you will
> defend
> Nancy Grace and at the same time deny that you're doing it.
>
> I think that is very odd and I do not understand it, but I think very hard
> about
> it.
I am not defending Nancy Grace when I say that only the suicide is
responsible for her decision and her act. I think you do not
understand the difference because you are blaming Nancy Grace for
someone else's actions and that opinion is filling up your brain and no
new thoughts, opinions or information can make their way in. Give your
brain a rest, Bernie, see what happens.
yD
FragileWarrior
news:1158850436.1...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
Bernie has a brain? Cite, please?
jerem...@gmail.com
Nancy Grace is tactless and graceless.
(And Nancy has a mad persistant obsession with Michael Jackson. How
many episodes of her show now have been devoted to Michael Jackson?
They ought to call it "The Michael Jackson Hour".)
Let's not even talk about the disputed quality if Nancy's
"experts"--Jerry Falwell as a "child care expert"? C'mon! Why not
Paris Hilton?
JL
FragileWarrior
@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
When was Jerry Falwell on Nancy Grace as a child care expert?
And the more shows that stomp all over Wacko is fine with me. I don't
think we should stop with those until there's not a parent in the world
that will let him within 100 yards of their child -- minors or full grown.