Wayne Rogers, 82, actor

[cathyc...@aol.com]

Star of MASH on TV and later a respected investment analyst. Pneumonia.

[Louis Epstein]

cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
> Star of MASH on TV and later a respected investment analyst. Pneumonia.

I wonder if he'll be the last famous death of 2015...

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[cathyc...@aol.com]

That'd be a good bet.

[radioacti...@gmail.com]

Yeah, Rogers was always seemed in command of his facts and was credible on the cable financial talk shows I caught him on.

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 22:27:02 -0800 (PST), radioacti...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Yeah, Rogers was always seemed in command of his facts and was credible on the cable financial talk shows I caught him on.

That's like saying you had a so-so radio show heard only by your 6
neighbors.

JFYI ...

Wayne Rogers was an author [ on financial matters ], a nationally
respected investment manager, finance expert, and Fox News
contributor. He was also the CEO of Wayne M. Rogers & Co..
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/Los-Angeles/william-m-rogers-P5421050.aspx


Hope you have a better 2016, Bryan. :)


>BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

[Michael OConnor]

Why did he leave MASH? Did he get tired of playing second banana to Alan Alda? In the movie MASH Trapper went home at the end of the movie, so the writers might have been wanting to following the tone of the movie; I preferred Trapper to the Mike Farrell character they replaced him with. I don't think it was to spend more time on his business career because he went right into an NBC series City of Angels the following season that was soon cancelled, and a couple years later starred on the TV version of House Calls, which ran for about three seasons. After that he just seemed to dabble in a TV movie here and there. For an actor he had a very successful second career in business investment.

[cathyc...@aol.com]

Mike Farrell and his character were insufferable.

[Louis Epstein]

cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
> That'd be a good bet.

Looks like Natalie Cole beat him out by hours!

[Sarah Ehrett's Lesbian Love Interest]

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 10:27:05 PM UTC-8, radioacti...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah, Rogers was always seemed in command of his facts and was credible on the cable financial talk shows I caught him on.
>
> BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

Right.... Credible, but not profitable. Instead of watching financial news show pundits, watch cartoons and burn your money. You'll have fun and come out about the same- except way smarter.

[Sarah Ehrett's Lesbian Love Interest]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 11:38:56 AM UTC-8, Sarah Ehrett's Lesbian Love Interest wrote:
> On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 10:27:05 PM UTC-8, radioacti...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Yeah, Rogers was always seemed in command of his facts and was credible on the cable financial talk shows I caught him on.
> >
> > BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
>

> Right.... Credible, but not profitable (THE worst type of advisor). Instead of watching financial news show pundits, watch cartoons and burn your money. You'll have fun and come out about the same- except way smarter.

Pundifact.com gave Rogers a "Pants On Fire" for his statement, "There are over 200 documented cases where (Obama) has lied." I guess he was trying to cement his position on FOX News. And he was a spokesperson for a reverse mortgage company.

I almost forgot... He died in disgrace, with $75 million in the bank.
"The man who dies rich dies in disgrace." Andrew Carnegie.

[Michael OConnor]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-5, cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
> Mike Farrell and his character were insufferable.

Of the three cast changes during the series, his was the worst. While I loved MacLean Stevenson on the show, Harry Morgan was a decent alternative. The Winchester character was a poor replacement for Burns, who was effective as a one-dimensional comic foil, but Mike Farrell was simply lame. The series started to quickly go downhill once Blake was killed off, and after Trapper was gone (I think they left around the same time), it started to really get unfunny, especially after Burns left the series.

The fact that MASH went on for six seasons after that (and was still a highly rated series) has always been a mystery to me, as that was the point when Alan Alda pretty much took over complete creative control of the series. It was rarely funny in the later years, it had gotten very, very preachy, and depressing, and I found it unwatchable. For that reason, I rarely watch it in reruns, unless I see it is an early episode from the first couple seasons.

[That Derek]

If there is, indeed, a "curse" of original M*A*S*H actors who left the show midstream (Messrs. Rogers, Stevenson, and Linville), then I wouldn't sell any life insurance to Gary Burghoff :).

[cathyc...@aol.com]

That's because Obama has lied way more than 200 times. After all, how many times did he say "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?" Thousands of times. Or do you count that as 1 lie repeatedly spoken?

[RH Draney]

There were other cast changes besides the three you mention, although
only those three are perceived as replacements of one character with
someone similar (like "My Three Sons" changing Bub to Charlie)...you had
Radar's clerk job taken over by Klinger, the addition of Rizzo as a
featured regular, the early dismissal of Spearchucker Jones and Lt Dish,
and the much-heralded-at-the-time introduction of Captain Jeffrey
Spaulding (played by Loudon Wainwright III)....r

[RH Draney]

On 1/1/2016 3:20 PM, That Derek wrote:
> If there is, indeed, a "curse" of original M*A*S*H actors who left the show midstream (Messrs. Rogers, Stevenson, and Linville), then I wouldn't sell any life insurance to Gary Burghoff :).

The far creepier curse of Stevenson and Roger Bowen, who played Henry
Blake in the movie, just one day apart should now be troubling to Elliot
Gould...the third Trapper John, Pernell Roberts, is beyond worrying over
such things....r

[Sarah Ehrett]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 12:18:43 -0800 (PST), "Sarah Ehrett's Lesbian Love
Interest" <wilm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"The man who dies rich dies in disgrace." Andrew Carnegie.

Andrew Carnegie, " one of the country’s first defence contractors by
supplying steel to build new navy warships. The American Navy was
becoming increasingly aggressive in this era as witnessed by the 1898
invasion of Cuba and in 1899 when a Philippines rebellion was crushed.
The Americans use an early variation on water-boarding to torture
rebels." http://history.co.uk/biographies/andrew-carnegie

Yay!

[Louis Epstein]

Not the Captain Spaulding for whom the Marx Brothers sang Hooray.

[RH Draney]

On 1/2/2016 1:50 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:

> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

>> and the much-heralded-at-the-time introduction of Captain Jeffrey
>> Spaulding (played by Loudon Wainwright III)....r
>>
>
> Not the Captain Spaulding for whom the Marx Brothers sang Hooray.

No, but intended by the writers as a deliberate allusion....r

[poisoned rose]

I never liked this show much, mostly because Alda's Groucho-esque style
of comedic acting grated on me like crazy. I mean, he practically
wriggled a pantomime cigar every time he made a quip. And his
narcissistic lechery...just plain tedious. I had no complaints about
Winchester and Honeycutt as characters (I thought Winchester was a big
improvement over, yes, "one-dimensional" Burns), but Potter's contrived
cornpone syntax also made me cringe. And Klinger's Section 8 schtick
grew old almost immediately. Also, Loretta Swit wasn't nearly attractive
enough to suit her character -- I rolled my eyes every time someone
woo-wooed about her. Yes, this show irritated me in multiple ways.

PS That weeks-silent Marcus hasn't replied to this thread makes me
seriously wonder if he has become on-topic for this newsgroup.

[tr...@iwvisp.com]

Timmy Brown took over the Spearchucker Jones character from the film, for the first season and was then let go when researchers found that there were no black M*A*S*H Surgeons in the Korean War.

Ray Arthur

[Anglo Saxon]

poisoned rose wrote:

>
> I never liked this show much, mostly because Alda's Groucho-esque style
> of comedic acting grated on me like crazy. I mean, he practically
> wriggled a pantomime cigar every time he made a quip. And his
> narcissistic lechery...just plain tedious. I had no complaints about
> Winchester and Honeycutt as characters (I thought Winchester was a big
> improvement over, yes, "one-dimensional" Burns), but Potter's contrived
> cornpone syntax also made me cringe. And Klinger's Section 8 schtick
> grew old almost immediately. Also, Loretta Swit wasn't nearly attractive
> enough to suit her character -- I rolled my eyes every time someone
> woo-wooed about her. Yes, this show irritated me in multiple ways.
>

You know, I had years and years of wondering if something was wrong with
me because that show irritated me in such an un-pleasant way, (sometimes
irritations can be fun), and I hated the 100% un-funny-ness of it while
all throughout the media and social miasma, it was hailed as some kind of
golden moment of mankind's best humor. And here I was, detesting it but
having to watch because it was a big deal for the whole beach community I
lived in in the 70's to gather and watch it as a weekly "event" not to be
missed. Being part of the deal, OK I went. Due to love, probably, at the
time. lol.

But it's only been here, on AO, decades later, that I read and listen to
people who didn't like it any more than I did, for their own reasons. It
makes me laugh, these little bits and pieces of our lives that are tied in
with movies and TV and art. I love it, the part where I say it makes me
laugh because it's in a good way.... all the people and friends and eras
that one lives through as life goes on. M.A.S.H. and clouds of pot smoke
and cold beer and cut-offs and warm sunsets.

I like poisoned rose. There's something about you that makes me feel like
when I watch old Rockford Files reruns.... it's like you 'get it'. :-)
The big picture.

[David Carson]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:03:57 -0800, poisoned rose
<pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:

>I had no complaints about
>Winchester and Honeycutt as characters (I thought Winchester was a big
>improvement over, yes, "one-dimensional" Burns), but Potter's contrived
>cornpone syntax also made me cringe. And Klinger's Section 8 schtick
>grew old almost immediately. Also, Loretta Swit wasn't nearly attractive
>enough to suit her character -- I rolled my eyes every time someone
>woo-wooed about her. Yes, this show irritated me in multiple ways.

That pretty accurately sums up my view. The lines they gave Harry Morgan
were embarrassingly bad. It was the city-folk view of what country-folk
sound like. I don't remember whether they wrote him that way, to that
degree, from the outset or whether he got worse as the show went on, but I
remember I went from liking him at first to, in time, not being able to
stand hearing him speak. I didn't mind Honeycutt; I thought at least he
was more interesting than Trapper. Winchester was, as you say, a big
improvement over Burns. By the end of the series, he actually was the best
character on it. I think I wrote this before, but if I had to choose
between Hawkeye, Burns, and Winchester as friends, I would choose
Winchester in a heartbeat. If down to Hawkeye and Burns, I would pick
Burns.

David Carson
--
Dead or Alive Data Base
http://www.doadb.com

[RH Draney]

On 1/6/2016 9:49 PM, David Carson wrote:
>
> That pretty accurately sums up my view. The lines they gave Harry Morgan
> were embarrassingly bad. It was the city-folk view of what country-folk
> sound like. I don't remember whether they wrote him that way, to that
> degree, from the outset or whether he got worse as the show went on, but I
> remember I went from liking him at first to, in time, not being able to
> stand hearing him speak. I didn't mind Honeycutt; I thought at least he
> was more interesting than Trapper. Winchester was, as you say, a big
> improvement over Burns. By the end of the series, he actually was the best
> character on it. I think I wrote this before, but if I had to choose
> between Hawkeye, Burns, and Winchester as friends, I would choose
> Winchester in a heartbeat. If down to Hawkeye and Burns, I would pick
> Burns.

May we call you Ferret Face?...r

[radioacti...@gmail.com]

Okay, I guess I'll clamber aboard this bandwagon too.

I, too, always thought the "M*A*S*H" [why no asterisk after the H?] series was wildly overrated. The film was often excellent, but its television incarnation never came close to matching it, even with its most celebrated episodes. Alda was fine (and a lookalike) as George Plimpton in "Paper Lion", but as Hawkeye Pierce, he never to me came off as believable character.

Of course, compared to the ludicrous Cpl. Klinger role, the TV Pierce was QUITE realistic. Whoever decided to make that character as such absolutely ruined the show for me. As a plot for a single (silly) episode, I suppose I might have been willing to countenance that would-be Section 8 cross-dressing, but as a running gag it not only wasn't funny, it wasn't in the least bit plausible.

(This is hardly the only such instance of a single character ruining a show for me; for instance, the often first-rate sitcom "The Bob Newhart Show" would have been MUCH stronger had Bill Daley's character not been such a ludicrous caricature, And inexplicable oddities like Sideshow Bob and Bumblebee Man seriously detract, rather than enhance, "The Simpsons".)

Loretta Switt also was never up to the job of carrying her character the way Sally Kellerman did. Even Gary Burghoff may have been playing the same character, but he too seemed less plausible on the small screen.

I realize that episodic television and film are very different media* both in concept and execution, but dramatically (and comedically, to a lesser extent) there are strong similarities. And given the series's fine cinematic pedigree, I think Larry Gelbart and his colleagues really fumbled the ball when they sitcomed a terrific film.

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
______________________________________________________________________________________________
* But less so, alas, in this maddening Era of the Sequel.

[poisoned rose]

Anglo Saxon <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I like poisoned rose. There's something about you that makes me feel like
> when I watch old Rockford Files reruns.

OK, that's the hardest a Usenet post has made me laugh in awhile. ;)

[poisoned rose]

poisoned rose <pro...@poisonedrose.com> wrote:

> I never liked this show much, mostly because Alda's Groucho-esque style
> of comedic acting grated on me like crazy. I mean, he practically
> wriggled a pantomime cigar every time he made a quip. And his
> narcissistic lechery...just plain tedious. I had no complaints about
> Winchester and Honeycutt as characters (I thought Winchester was a big
> improvement over, yes, "one-dimensional" Burns), but Potter's contrived
> cornpone syntax also made me cringe. And Klinger's Section 8 schtick
> grew old almost immediately. Also, Loretta Swit wasn't nearly attractive
> enough to suit her character -- I rolled my eyes every time someone
> woo-wooed about her. Yes, this show irritated me in multiple ways.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the show had the most intrusive laugh
track in TV history. Though I know the network imposed it against the
show's wishes, so I try to be forgiving.

[Sarah Ehrett's Lesbian Love Interest]

What I liked most was the moral of the story, each episode. Sometimes I wasn't paying attention, but the writers overcame that by beating the viewer over the head with moral advice. Hard to convince people that war was bad without blood, but the MASH writers were pure genius!

[radioacti...@gmail.com]

SELLI opined to one and all:

What I liked most was the moral of the story each episode.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Not sure that I agree that "M*A*S*H" episodes were typically moralistic, but if that's your cup of tea, I imagine you would LOVE (if you're not already familiar with it) "Parker Lewis Can't Lose".

For its brilliant first two seasons--the third and final not only had a substantially different style and tone, but the truncated title "Parker Lewis" as well--every episode of the surrealistic sitcom was structured as a short morality play. Add that to terrific casting, fine acting, funny writing and a remarkable visual style, and PLCL during the first two years was as memorable a sitcom as TV has ever produced.

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

[cathyc...@aol.com]

And it holds up poorly when stacked against the other sitcoms of the era. All in the Family, Bob Newhart, Mary Tyler Moore are still very funny today. I dare you to try and laugh at MASH. It simply isn't funny.

[leno...@yahoo.com]

On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 7:08:18 AM UTC-5, cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
> And it holds up poorly when stacked against the other sitcoms of the era. All in the Family, Bob Newhart, Mary Tyler Moore are still very funny today. I dare you to try and laugh at MASH. It simply isn't funny.

It is, IMO, funny in a different way.

Granted, it MAY be a bit difficult for young people today to appreciate,
since our current conflicts aren't on the same scale as the Vietnam War
(and, of course, we all know that MASH wasn't REALLY about Korea).

Not to mention that, as Robert Altman said, the movie characters "would
have chewed up and spit out those clowns."

And even the liberal weekly newspaper the Boston Phoenix wrote (at the end
of the series):

Josh Kornbluth, March 8, 1983

"MASH began as commercial TV's best shot - a hip 'Hogan's Heroes Goes to
Korea.' It ended as a wartime 'True Confessions,' with those whose
characters refused to develop into 'real' people (Henry, Trapper, Frank,
even Radar) going on permanent furlough and the rest becoming extraordinarily
ordinary.The Korean War, as a result, came to seem a nice place to visit -
maybe even to send the kids. ('You have some growing up to do, Junior. Why
don't you go fight somewhere and come back as Hawkeye?') Try what you will
...you can't place three-dimensional adults in a sitcom utopia and pretend
to be making an antiwar statement."


However, there are plenty of funny and/or touching episodes to choose from,
and with over 200 episodes, there are bound to be some duds. (I can't stand
to watch the 1982 episode where Hawkeye moves out of the Swamp, or the 1979
"Private Finance," where Margaret almost believes that Klinger has seduced
an underage Korean girl (the lines are COMPLETELY unbelievable), or the
1980 "Cementing Relationships," with the amorous Italian soldier.)

Even so, the first three years were hilarious, IMO. I can count ten
episodes from 1973 that I especially liked, and another 12 from 1974 (one
of the best was "Crisis," where their supplies have been cut off in the
middle of winter and they all have to bunk together). Yes, the biting
wit diminished after that, but I can still count at least five really
good episodes for every year after 1974, with the exceptions of 1975 and
1981; 1983 doesn't count because there were only seven episodes that year
anyway. Some of my favorite sweet episodes were "Inga" (1979), "Blood
Brothers" (1981, with Patrick Swayze), and "Foreign Affairs" (1982, with
the French nurse and Charles).

I was surprised to find out how many of the actors put their own traits
into their characters, such as Gary (drums and pets), Jamie (Lebanese
and from Toledo, OH), and David (love of classical music). Of course, I
didn't know about that until years later.


Lenona.

[RH Draney]

On 1/8/2016 10:35 AM, leno...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I was surprised to find out how many of the actors put their own traits
> into their characters, such as Gary (drums and pets), Jamie (Lebanese
> and from Toledo, OH), and David (love of classical music). Of course, I
> didn't know about that until years later.

How about McLean Stevenson *not* stuttering as Henry Blake?...Roger
Bowen did use the stutter in the movie, which was described in the
novel....r

[Will Dockery]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 11:22:12 AM UTC-5, Michael OConnor wrote:
> Why did he leave MASH? Did he get tired of playing second banana to Alan Alda? In the movie MASH Trapper went home at the end of the movie, so the writers might have been wanting to following the tone of the movie; I preferred Trapper to the Mike Farrell character they replaced him with. I don't think it was to spend more time on his business career because he went right into an NBC series City of Angels the following season that was soon cancelled, and a couple years later starred on the TV version of House Calls, which ran for about three seasons. After that he just seemed to dabble in a TV movie here and there. For an actor he had a very successful second career in business investment.

Wayne Rogers did leave M*A*S*H over the lack of attention shown his character, with Alan Alda basically becoming the star of the show, the first major divergence from the storyline as laid out by the novel and movie, in which Trapper John had an equal footing with Hawkeye.