Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Semi-OT: "Risks: a comparison - Childbirth vs Skydiving vs Driving"
124 views
Skip to first unread message
Lenona
Nov 9, 2022, 12:33:25 PM11/9/22
to
The first link-within-the-link is about maternal mortality in the U.S.; the second is about skydiving.
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
"17.4 deaths per 100,000 in the US It's much worse if you didn't win a genetic lottery, unfortunately. (2018)
"0.28 deaths per 100,000 in the US (2021, so you could argue this was affected by the pandemic.)
"Obviously, these aren't exactly apples to apples comparisons. But I want to highlight how dangerous giving birth can be and how we brush that off as a society. That means a woman is more than 60 times likely to die while giving birth than a human is while skydiving.
"I am also not advocating for skydiving either. But hey, it's your life. Do it if you want.
"Sorry completely forgot about driving - that's a 1 in about 100 chance of dying while in a car, but that is spread out over the lifetime of a driver/ passenger."
____________________________________________
And (warning - foul language ahead, but the somewhat exaggerated historical details are interesting):
http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,444251
Excerpt:
"Germany and Italy are both suffering a pension crisis where the average age of the worker is increasing and it is going to affect their national retirement and they aren't the only country with this issue. Economies that mostly or solely rely on an increasing supply of brats are declining economically, time to change the reliance to something else."
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
"17.4 deaths per 100,000 in the US It's much worse if you didn't win a genetic lottery, unfortunately. (2018)
"0.28 deaths per 100,000 in the US (2021, so you could argue this was affected by the pandemic.)
"Obviously, these aren't exactly apples to apples comparisons. But I want to highlight how dangerous giving birth can be and how we brush that off as a society. That means a woman is more than 60 times likely to die while giving birth than a human is while skydiving.
"I am also not advocating for skydiving either. But hey, it's your life. Do it if you want.
"Sorry completely forgot about driving - that's a 1 in about 100 chance of dying while in a car, but that is spread out over the lifetime of a driver/ passenger."
____________________________________________
And (warning - foul language ahead, but the somewhat exaggerated historical details are interesting):
http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,444251
Excerpt:
"Germany and Italy are both suffering a pension crisis where the average age of the worker is increasing and it is going to affect their national retirement and they aren't the only country with this issue. Economies that mostly or solely rely on an increasing supply of brats are declining economically, time to change the reliance to something else."
Kenny McCormack
Nov 9, 2022, 3:26:06 PM11/9/22
to
In article <88c382d6-ea2f-41ce...@googlegroups.com>,
do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
footnote at * below)
Skydiving, OTOH, is clearly optional at best and generally a downright bad
idea. I actually know people who've done it and at one point in my life
was actually quite interested in trying it, although I never did. Now, it
just seems silly to me. My understanding is that even a good, successful
jump is painful to some degree. The likelihood of breaking an ankle even
on a good jump seems high. Incidentally, I feel much the same way about
downhill skiing.
Note, incidentally, that gun nuts sometimes make this same sort of
argument. They say, "Oh, you say that 50K people/yr get killed by guns (in
the USA) - the same number as get killed by cars every year. But you don't
talk about outlawing cars, dooya, dooya?" The absurdity of this argument
should be obvious.
(*) Yes, I will probably get flack for both of these assertions. All I can
say is that if you resist the urge to "strawman" my words and instead
"steelman" them, you'll get the point.
--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining
It describes comp.lang.c to a T!
Lenona <leno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The first link-within-the-link is about maternal mortality in the U.S.; the
>second is about skydiving.
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
>
>Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
>
>"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other
>adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
The key difference is that both driving and birthing are things you have to
>The first link-within-the-link is about maternal mortality in the U.S.; the
>second is about skydiving.
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
>
>Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
>
>"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other
>adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
footnote at * below)
Skydiving, OTOH, is clearly optional at best and generally a downright bad
idea. I actually know people who've done it and at one point in my life
was actually quite interested in trying it, although I never did. Now, it
just seems silly to me. My understanding is that even a good, successful
jump is painful to some degree. The likelihood of breaking an ankle even
on a good jump seems high. Incidentally, I feel much the same way about
downhill skiing.
Note, incidentally, that gun nuts sometimes make this same sort of
argument. They say, "Oh, you say that 50K people/yr get killed by guns (in
the USA) - the same number as get killed by cars every year. But you don't
talk about outlawing cars, dooya, dooya?" The absurdity of this argument
should be obvious.
(*) Yes, I will probably get flack for both of these assertions. All I can
say is that if you resist the urge to "strawman" my words and instead
"steelman" them, you'll get the point.
--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining
It describes comp.lang.c to a T!
Lenona
Nov 9, 2022, 4:18:55 PM11/9/22
to
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:26:06 PM UTC-5, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <88c382d6-ea2f-41ce...@googlegroups.com>,
> Lenona <leno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >The first link-within-the-link is about maternal mortality in the U.S.; the
> >second is about skydiving.
> >
> >https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
> >
> >Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
> >
> >"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other
> >adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
> The key difference is that both driving and birthing are things you have to
> do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
> would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
> footnote at * below)
I'm kind of surprised to hear YOU talk like that.
> In article <88c382d6-ea2f-41ce...@googlegroups.com>,
> Lenona <leno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >The first link-within-the-link is about maternal mortality in the U.S.; the
> >second is about skydiving.
> >
> >https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/yq8rxs/risks_a_comparison_childbirth_vs_skydiving_vs/
> >
> >Posted by u/CF_FI_Fly, late last night.
> >
> >"Mind blowing how some people will say you shouldn't sky dive or do other
> >adrenaline type sports as it is 'risky'. Let's compare some actual numbers:
> The key difference is that both driving and birthing are things you have to
> do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
> would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
> footnote at * below)
(Mind you, I always appreciate your comments.)
Yes, it's true we can't all use public transportation instead, even though SOME rural areas have cheap transportation.
I also admit to not knowing just how much safer one is when in a bus than in a car.
But pretty much no one reluctantly has children just for the sake of the ECONOMY, as opposed to doing it to please a spouse, one's parents, or religious leaders. Yes, people still have children they can't love just because they're gambling on the hope that they'll be cared for in their old age - but even the perfect child can get hit by a car while crossing the street, at 18.
So I don't see why you "have to have children."
Kenny McCormack
Nov 10, 2022, 3:30:04 PM11/10/22
to
In article <562f87d3-0fa5-475a...@googlegroups.com>,
Lenona <leno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
...
For the record:
1) I am strongly CF. I think the best thing anyone can do for the
planet is to not have children. Personally, I have never had the urge
to do so (despite being raised in a pretty pro-natalist - i.e.,
Catholic, milieu). But many people think otherwise, and many think
the economy will crash if we don't and thus, that it is our "civic
duty" to do so.
2) I wish we weren't so car-dependent, but I have to concede that we are.
Outside of NYC, you really can't survive without one, just about
anywhere in the US. Chicago, for example, you just about can,
provided you live along the lake (where most of the public transit
is based). But you'll find grocery shopping difficult, among other
things.
>(Mind you, I always appreciate your comments.)
Thanks.
--
This is the GOP's problem. When you're at the beginning of the year
and you've got nine Democrats running for the nomination, maybe one or
two of them are Dennis Kucinich. When you have nine Republicans, seven
or eight of them are Michelle Bachmann.
Lenona <leno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
...
>> The key difference is that both driving and birthing are things you have to
>> do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
>> would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
>> footnote at * below)
>
>I'm kind of surprised to hear YOU talk like that.
Well, I was kind of "devil's advocating" - arguing against myself.
>> do, so any injuries/fatalities are part of the cost of doing business. I
>> would argue that both of these are both necessary and productive (see
>> footnote at * below)
>
>I'm kind of surprised to hear YOU talk like that.
For the record:
1) I am strongly CF. I think the best thing anyone can do for the
planet is to not have children. Personally, I have never had the urge
to do so (despite being raised in a pretty pro-natalist - i.e.,
Catholic, milieu). But many people think otherwise, and many think
the economy will crash if we don't and thus, that it is our "civic
duty" to do so.
2) I wish we weren't so car-dependent, but I have to concede that we are.
Outside of NYC, you really can't survive without one, just about
anywhere in the US. Chicago, for example, you just about can,
provided you live along the lake (where most of the public transit
is based). But you'll find grocery shopping difficult, among other
things.
>(Mind you, I always appreciate your comments.)
--
This is the GOP's problem. When you're at the beginning of the year
and you've got nine Democrats running for the nomination, maybe one or
two of them are Dennis Kucinich. When you have nine Republicans, seven
or eight of them are Michelle Bachmann.
Topic Cop
Nov 10, 2022, 3:45:50 PM11/10/22
to
Lenona
Nov 10, 2022, 9:50:33 PM11/10/22
to
On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 3:30:04 PM UTC-5, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> But many people think otherwise, and many think
> the economy will crash if we don't and thus, that it is our "civic
> duty" to do so.
Economists and politicians, per se, might use that as an excuse to HARASS young couples who have zero children or only one.
> But many people think otherwise, and many think
> the economy will crash if we don't and thus, that it is our "civic
> duty" to do so.
That's not the same as couples adopting the same attitude if they didn't already want children. (Many couples are fencesitters.)
Leaving aside those who are just plain careless with birth control (note: one always has to use at LEAST two contraceptives, Every Time), how many couples - in the U.S., at least - who actually AGREE they don't want kids, choose to get pregnant anyway?
Practically none, I would think.
Yes, it's often taboo to admit to not wanting children, so if only one spouse wants to say no to parenthood, there's a good chance it will never get said out loud.
A Friend
Nov 10, 2022, 10:06:50 PM11/10/22
to
In article <4bc11cd1-c9c4-404e...@googlegroups.com>,
We didn't want any and we didn't have any. Taboos be damned.
I've been asked by people I've just met how many grandchildren I have.
Seemed intrusive.
I've been asked by people I've just met how many grandchildren I have.
Seemed intrusive.
Lenona
Nov 10, 2022, 10:41:34 PM11/10/22
to
> I've been asked by people I've just met how many grandchildren I have.
> Seemed intrusive.
Definitely.
> Seemed intrusive.
From page 171 of "Napalm & Silly Putty," by George Carlin:
"Would someone please explain to me the supposed appeal of having
grandchildren? People ask me, 'Are you a grandfather yet?' as if it's
some great thing. I'm sure it has its charms, and I imagine some dull-
witted people want to see their genes passed along for the sheer
novelty of the idea. But overall, I don't get it."
That is, since people knew Carlin had a daughter, it WOULD have been more
or less polite for them to ask "do you have grandchildren?"
It was the arrogant use of the word "yet" that irritated him, apparently.
(And given how awful he and his wife were as parents - mainly because of
their drug abuse - the above entry in his book was likely also his way of
admitting as much to his daughter.)
Lenona
Nov 10, 2022, 10:54:12 PM11/10/22
to
At any rate, what the Reddit poster was trying to say is that women should not be pressured to risk their lives for something they probably don't want that much in the first place, when we don't typically pressure our loved ones - male or female - to do anything else that's both seriously dangerous AND a private choice.
(Even if a woman has an easy delivery, if she doesn't learn to love her child, that's no good for the child, obviously.)
(Even if a woman has an easy delivery, if she doesn't learn to love her child, that's no good for the child, obviously.)
0 new messages