Atwater Analysis:Denning

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Louis Epstein

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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Lord Denning(January 23,1899-March 5,1999) was picked by five Atwaterites,
one of whom now moves into 4th place.

(Nobody had him in a couple other pools I checked...Death Game deosn't
publish their master list).

Edwin King

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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I think quite a few people would have had him in the Derby Death Pool,
but presumably Big Iain can give you the stats.

Edwin

Louis Epstein

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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Edwin King (Edwin...@virgin.net) wrote:

Only two,it turns out...not near the most popular picks(Pope and Queen
Mother 25,Yeltsin 24,Reagan,Cartland,Hope,Milligan,Gielgud all in double
figures).Big Iain was waiting for a UK obituary on Blackmun(now
published) before crediting the death,when he last updated the page.

I should add that the 5 Atwaterites will get no credit for the death
of Lord Denning if the person compiling tonight's AP Obituaries in the
News prefers to give the space to someone who retired twenty years ago
as general manager of the West Podunk Daily Bugle.

One person had Lord Denning in the Philadelpha Dead Pool.

Dave Mayall

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:10:06 GMT, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:

>Lord Denning(January 23,1899-March 5,1999) was picked by five Atwaterites,
>one of whom now moves into 4th place.

Only 4 people picked him, one had him in two lists.

Probably somebody who was putting him up as a good bet last December,
because centenarian peers don't last :-)

>(Nobody had him in a couple other pools I checked...Death Game deosn't
>publish their master list).

He wasn't even in the select-o-matic until I used him in a Lee Jr.

--
Dave Mayall

Iain Stuart

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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Amongst the Spam I noticed Edwin King typed

>Louis Epstein wrote:
>> Lord Denning(January 23,1899-March 5,1999) was picked by five Atwaterites,
>> one of whom now moves into 4th place.
>> (Nobody had him in a couple other pools I checked...Death Game deosn't
>> publish their master list).
>I think quite a few people would have had him in the Derby Death Pool,
>but presumably Big Iain can give you the stats.

You mean the Derby Dead Pool at www.big-iain.demon.co.uk ?

Why, yes indeed. Two people have selected him, The Defending Champion,
and, hey that sounds familiar, a certain Ed K. You don't suppose....

So on consecutive days, we have senior US and UK law chiefs popping their
clogs. Who's next ? If I were a lawyer, I'd be nervous.
------------------------------------------------------
Big-Iain

"If you give me six lines written by the most honest man,
I will find something in them to hang him"
Cardinal Richelieu

< Note : Anti-spam address in use, >
< It's pretty obvious what to do. >

Edwin King

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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Bi-Iain wrote:
>
> You mean the Derby Dead Pool at www.big-iain.demon.co.uk ?

Yes the Derby Dead Pool at http://www.big-iain.demon.co.uk



> Why, yes indeed. Two people have selected him, The Defending Champion,
> and, hey that sounds familiar, a certain Ed K. You don't suppose....

That does sound familiar - I'm surprised there weren't more of us
though...



> So on consecutive days, we have senior US and UK law chiefs popping their
> clogs. Who's next ? If I were a lawyer, I'd be nervous.

Wednesday's Times had a former Chief Justice of Malawi in it (but the
death dates back to 22 Feb).

The problem is that there are too many lawyers around to make their
obits stand out (almost every politican in the UK started out as either
a trade unionist or lawyer). The late Asantehene was a barrister before
getting a proper job.

Lord Hailsham was looking quite well in the news tributes - how old is
he now? Which other former Lord Chancellors survive? I know at least
two lawyers who'd like to see the end of Derry Irvine.

At the risk of sounding like Louis, two of the three longing serving
members of the Privy Council have died in the last fortnight - Lord
Denning (apptd 1948) and Lord Eccles (1951), the surviving one is Lord
Longford (1948).

Edwin

bc...@gwu.edu

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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In article <F84v2...@news2.new-york.net>,
l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:

> Only two,it turns out...not near the most popular picks(Pope and Queen
> Mother 25,Yeltsin 24,Reagan,Cartland,Hope,Milligan,Gielgud all in double
> figures).Big Iain was waiting for a UK obituary on Blackmun(now
> published) before crediting the death,when he last updated the page.
>
> I should add that the 5 Atwaterites will get no credit for the death
> of Lord Denning if the person compiling tonight's AP Obituaries in the
> News prefers to give the space to someone who retired twenty years ago
> as general manager of the West Podunk Daily Bugle.

Which is the one major complaint I have about the way the Atwater pool is
run. I agree with the reasons beside the
AP-must-report-it-or-it-doesn't-count rule, but leaving the validity of some
of the more obscure deaths to the whim of some AP employee seems rather
unfair. Maybe expand the rule to include a wider variety of news sevices?
Any one of them reports the death, and the guy's a celebrity. Period. (Of
course, rules against criminals condemned to death should still be kept.)

Brendan

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Dave Mayall

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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On Fri, 05 Mar 1999 19:36:57 +0000, Edwin King <Edwin...@virgin.net>
wrote:

>At the risk of sounding like Louis, two of the three longing serving
>members of the Privy Council have died in the last fortnight - Lord
>Denning (apptd 1948) and Lord Eccles (1951), the surviving one is Lord
>Longford (1948).

And he has been reported to be looking very ill recently.

If he lasts the month out, he might be worth a shot in the next Lee
Jr.

--
Dave Mayall

Dave Mayall

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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On Fri, 05 Mar 1999 20:54:00 GMT, bc...@gwu.edu wrote:


>Which is the one major complaint I have about the way the Atwater pool is
>run. I agree with the reasons beside the
>AP-must-report-it-or-it-doesn't-count rule, but leaving the validity of some
>of the more obscure deaths to the whim of some AP employee seems rather
>unfair. Maybe expand the rule to include a wider variety of news sevices?
>Any one of them reports the death, and the guy's a celebrity. Period. (Of
>course, rules against criminals condemned to death should still be kept.)

It does seem a little US oriented. Perhaps expand the definition to
include Reuters?

--
Dave Mayall

DESSCRIBE1

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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>Which is the one major complaint I have about the way the Atwater pool is
>run. I agree with the reasons beside the
>AP-must-report-it-or-it-doesn't-count rule, but leaving the validity of some
>of the more obscure deaths to the whim of some AP employee seems rather
>unfair. Maybe expand the rule to include a wider variety of news sevices?
>Any one of them reports the death, and the guy's a celebrity. Period.
(Of
>course, rules against criminals condemned to death should still be kept.)
>
>Brendan

I also agree with the principle behind the AP rule...but AP's really let a lot
slip by them lately. There's been no AP obits for Shirley Stoler, Felipe
Alfau, or Derek Nimmo (even though nobody picked either Stoler or Alfau, making
it a moot point for the Atwater), and they weren't nearly as obscure as some of
the people who have gotten AP obits.

By the way, is there an on-line obituary for Derek Nimmo from any of the
important news organs? After that Sugden brouhaha a while back, I'm just a bit
leery of any announcement of any British comic's death without official
confirmation...

Erich


Iain Stuart

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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Amongst the Spam I noticed DESSCRIBE1 typed

>By the way, is there an on-line obituary for Derek Nimmo from any of the
>important news organs? After that Sugden brouhaha a while back, I'm just a bit
>leery of any announcement of any British comic's death without official
>confirmation...

There's one on the Derby DP site, OCR'd from the Guardian, and I'd expect
that the Daily Telegraph would still have it on their pages.

Edwin King

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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Iain Stuart wrote:
>
> Amongst the Spam I noticed DESSCRIBE1 typed

> >By the way, is there an on-line obituary for Derek Nimmo from any of the
> >important news organs? After that Sugden brouhaha a while back, I'm just a bit
> >leery of any announcement of any British comic's death without official
> >confirmation...
>
> There's one on the Derby DP site, OCR'd from the Guardian, and I'd expect
> that the Daily Telegraph would still have it on their pages.

As does the Times. I don't have the dates with me - but a deja news
search for Nimmo and my address on alt.obits will come up with the
"Obits in the British Press" message that gives the info.

Laurie D. T. Mann

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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Louis Epstein wrote:
> I'll say again,if you want to succeed in the Atwater on the present rules,
> study up on retired employees of AP member newspapers...they always get obits!

Sure, but many local papers don't run all the AP obits.

Further, depending on what the local papers decide to run, you
can get word of a somewhat obscure death two or three weeks after
the fact. In short, don't hold your breath relying on the AP
to be timely.

In general, I agree with the Atwater rules on "determining fame."

--
Laurie D. T. Mann ** Geek Feminist ** lm...@city-net.com
Dead People Server ** Trivia Maven ** http://dpsinfo.com
Nebula Awards Weekend http://www.sfwa.org/awards/current.htm

Louis Epstein

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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Laurie D. T. Mann (lm...@city-net.com) wrote:

: Louis Epstein wrote:
: > I'll say again,if you want to succeed in the Atwater on the present rules,
: > study up on retired employees of AP member newspapers...they always get obits!
:
: Sure, but many local papers don't run all the AP obits.
:
: Further, depending on what the local papers decide to run, you
: can get word of a somewhat obscure death two or three weeks after
: the fact. In short, don't hold your breath relying on the AP
: to be timely.
:
: In general, I agree with the Atwater rules on "determining fame."

I don't.
And their rule is that the death must be in AP Obituaries in the News,
whether or not a given paper runs it...and they seem to have made
an exception for Denning(even while disallowing Yasu Akino,whose
death like his was a news story on AP but not in the roundup) unless
the roundup was expanded to include him last night.

(If you misinterpreted what I said despite the context...I was saying
that the Obituaries roundup will include someone who once worked for
an AP member newspaper,while ignoring people far more prominent in
their respective spheres),

Brad Ferguson

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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In article <F86tx...@news2.new-york.net> , l...@put.com (Louis Epstein)
wrote:

> Laurie D. T. Mann (lm...@city-net.com) wrote:


Am I wrong, Louis, or haven't you said that you don't play the Atwater
pool? If this is true, why are you bothering everyone about this? It
wouldn't seem to be any of your affair.


---
Stop by http://www.fred.net/thirteen
---
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Anthony Torres

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Mar 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/7/99
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Edwin King wrote in message <36E00B...@virgin.net>...

>Louis Epstein wrote:
>>
>> Lord Denning(January 23,1899-March 5,1999) was picked by five
Atwaterites,
>> one of whom now moves into 4th place.


Dislodging ME, I'll have you know, bumping me down to 5th place. It's
funny-- Dusty
Springfield dies; she's on 76 lists, and I stay in 4th place. Lord Denning
dies, who is
on five lists, and I'm down to 5th place.

Anthony Torres
Dearborn, Michigan


Dave Mayall

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Mar 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/8/99
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On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:54:00 -0000, "Anthony Torres" <ant...@tir.com>
wrote:

>Dislodging ME, I'll have you know, bumping me down to 5th place. It's
>funny-- Dusty
>Springfield dies; she's on 76 lists, and I stay in 4th place. Lord Denning
>dies, who is
>on five lists, and I'm down to 5th place.

That's the way the cookie crumbles. It's people who are only on a
couple of lists who tend to make a big difference.

When Joe DiMaggio goes, it won't change things much, because he's on
damn near every list.

Dusty Springfield was the second biggest pick to die so far this year.

--
Dave Mayall

may...@postoffice.co.uk

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Mar 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/8/99
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In article <36e50bd9...@news.ukonline.co.uk>,

david....@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:54:00 -0000, "Anthony Torres" <ant...@tir.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Dislodging ME, I'll have you know, bumping me down to 5th place. It's
> >funny-- Dusty
> >Springfield dies; she's on 76 lists, and I stay in 4th place. Lord Denning
> >dies, who is
> >on five lists, and I'm down to 5th place.
>
> That's the way the cookie crumbles. It's people who are only on a
> couple of lists who tend to make a big difference.
>
> When Joe DiMaggio goes, it won't change things much, because he's on
> damn near every list.

Spooky.

I mention him, and he dies.

A quick check shows that 75% of atwaterites had him. I had him on all 3 lists,
because he was a cert. Of course everybody else had him as a cert, so nobody
gets propelled into a win by having him, but those who left him out missed an
easy stiff.

I just wish I'd been more positive about denning, and put him higher in , then
I could be 3rd instead of 30th.

Still Anthony should be happy, because DiMaggio bumps him up from 5th to 3rd

--
Dave

Louis Epstein

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Mar 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/8/99
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Anthony Torres (ant...@tir.com) wrote:
:
: Edwin King wrote in message <36E00B...@virgin.net>...

: >Louis Epstein wrote:
: >>
: >> Lord Denning(January 23,1899-March 5,1999) was picked by five
: Atwaterites,
: >> one of whom now moves into 4th place.
:
:
: Dislodging ME, I'll have you know, bumping me down to 5th place. It's

: funny-- Dusty
: Springfield dies; she's on 76 lists, and I stay in 4th place. Lord Denning
: dies, who is
: on five lists, and I'm down to 5th place.

Well,DiMaggio has increased your standing(while vastly lowering the
number of the scoreless).

: Anthony Torres
: Dearborn, Michigan
:
:
:

Louis Epstein

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Mar 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/8/99
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may...@postoffice.co.uk wrote:
: In article <36e50bd9...@news.ukonline.co.uk>,

: david....@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
: > On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:54:00 -0000, "Anthony Torres" <ant...@tir.com>
: > wrote:
: >
: > >Dislodging ME, I'll have you know, bumping me down to 5th place. It's
: > >funny-- Dusty
: > >Springfield dies; she's on 76 lists, and I stay in 4th place. Lord Denning
: > >dies, who is
: > >on five lists, and I'm down to 5th place.
: >
: > That's the way the cookie crumbles. It's people who are only on a

: > couple of lists who tend to make a big difference.
: >
: > When Joe DiMaggio goes, it won't change things much, because he's on
: > damn near every list.
:
: Spooky.
:
: I mention him, and he dies.
:
: A quick check shows that 75% of atwaterites had him. I had him on all 3 lists,
: because he was a cert. Of course everybody else had him as a cert, so nobody
: gets propelled into a win by having him, but those who left him out missed an
: easy stiff.

The number of people with 1 hit for 10 points,DiMaggio being that one,
is huge...765 of thr 919 players have now scored overall.

: I just wish I'd been more positive about denning, and put him higher in , then


: I could be 3rd instead of 30th.
:
: Still Anthony should be happy, because DiMaggio bumps him up from 5th to 3rd

:
: Dave

Huw Shepheard

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Mar 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/8/99
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Louis Epstein wrote in message ...
>snip<
>:
>: Lord Hailsham was looking quite well in the news tributes - how old is

>: he now? Which other former Lord Chancellors survive? I know at least
>: two lawyers who'd like to see the end of Derry Irvine.
>
>Lord Hailsham was born in 1907.
>I believe he is the only living former Lord Chancellor aside from his
>immediate successor Lord Mackay...Lord Kilmuir died in 1967,Lord Dilhorne
>in 1980,Lord Elwyn-Jones in 1989,and Lord Gardiner in 1990,that's everyone
>else who has held the post in my lifetime.
>
>snip<

You missed out Lord Havers, who was promoted from Attorney General after
Hailsham went. He didn't last long. His son Philip is a QC and may well be
en route to being a judge. As for his other son - Nigel is still acting.

Huw Shepheard

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