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noise: gear+aesthetics

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Nathan

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Mar 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/3/98
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Hey,

I've been listening to industrial for a long time now, but I'm
relatively new to noise. My only noise CD at this time is Akasha
Gulva by Merzbow- I'm intrigued by it, and it finds its way into my CD
player quite a bit. It's unfortunate that my girlfriend hates it.

What kind of gear is best used to make noise? I know my old CZ-1000
can makes some pretty nasty digital distortion mixed with white noise
when I max out a lot of the parameters. Is this the kind of
instrument "famous" noise artists use?

My real question is about the aesthetics of noise. What makes good
noise? It is _just_ intensity? How much pain it causes you when you
listen to it? When I listen to that merzbow album, it seems to
seperate into three or four different pieces, at different
frequencies... after 5 or 10 minutes I get kind of numb to some of it,
and start hearing the little chirps and warbles in it. Is that what I
should be listening for? All I can get out of it right now is "wow,
that's unlistenable as fuck! hey, cool, I can train my ears to filter
out the worst parts so that I can think." (That and it seems to purify
my brain somehow.) What else am I supposed to get out of it?

Also, is the "feedback" sort of noise a subgenre, or is it
representative of noise as a whole.

Robb Cunningham

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Mar 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/3/98
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Nathan wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> I've been listening to industrial for a long time now, but I'm
> relatively new to noise. My only noise CD at this time is Akasha
> Gulva by Merzbow- I'm intrigued by it, and it finds its way into my CD
> player quite a bit.

welcome to the wonderful world of noise, grasshopper

> It's unfortunate that my girlfriend hates it.

don't they all.

>
> What kind of gear is best used to make noise? I know my old CZ-1000
> can makes some pretty nasty digital distortion mixed with white noise
> when I max out a lot of the parameters. Is this the kind of
> instrument "famous" noise artists use?

seriously man, ANYTHING makes noise. But here are some "essential"
things.

1. EFX. TONS of EFFECTS!!! distortion, delay, wah, whatever you
can get. Go to pawn shops or buy a recycler, and then buy anything
you see that alters sound in any way!

2. Gadgets. Random shit around the house that makes sound.
Appliances, children's toys, the television, your car, anything.
Use these in combination with #1.

3. A microphone and an amp, obviously

optional:
Analogue synth. Really strange sounds are possible with these.
Any other instrument.

>
> My real question is about the aesthetics of noise. What makes good
> noise? It is _just_ intensity? How much pain it causes you when you
> listen to it?

No not at all. There are two main camps as far as noise goes:

1. the "brutality is everything" camp. These will value _just_
intensity. The genre is usually referred to as "Japanese noise" or
"Japanoise" or the more politically correct "power electronics."

2. The wanky "sound is art" types. These will value the
innovation and complexity of a particular sound work. Typical
names given to this type of stuff: experimental, noise, sound
collage, avante-garde, etc.

I don't mean to say that we all hate each other, in fact probably
90% of noise fans enjoy a good mix of both types. But most of
them gravitate at least a little towards one or the other.

(I go for #2, and the Merzbow album you bought falls under #1
I'm guessing from the way you describe it)

> When I listen to that merzbow album, it seems to
> seperate into three or four different pieces, at different
> frequencies... after 5 or 10 minutes I get kind of numb to some of it,
> and start hearing the little chirps and warbles in it. Is that what I
> should be listening for? All I can get out of it right now is "wow,
> that's unlistenable as fuck! hey, cool, I can train my ears to filter
> out the worst parts so that I can think." (That and it seems to purify
> my brain somehow.) What else am I supposed to get out of it?

Most who enjoy hardcore power electronics see it as a tremendous
emotional catharsis sort of experience. It's this really intense
mental experience. It either happens or it doesn't.

>
> Also, is the "feedback" sort of noise a subgenre, or is it
> representative of noise as a whole.

There are about as many different subgenres of noise as there are bands,
but I think there are a ton of bands who employ feedback to some extent.
But are you talking about "rock" bands who use a lot of feedback? I
dunno, you need to elaborate here.

By the way, almost every genre has a "noise" section of it.

Techno/noise. Technoise, Panasonic some gabber (occasional delta nine)
ambient/noise. Arcane Device, CCCC "Love and Noise"
metal/grind/noise. Discordance Axis, Catasexual Urge Motivation
punk/noise. don't know names, but I know it exists
rock/noise. boredoms, hanatarash, omoide hatoba,
blues/slack sludge noise. kings of feedback.
Country/Noise. someone has to do this.
industrial/noise. noisex, sonar, dissecting table
Pure noise (power electronics). Merzbow, Macronympha, Incapacitants,
Whitehouse (the inventors), Masonna
Classical/noise. stockhausen, stravinsky, cage
Rap/noise. Meat Beat Manifesto's first album, Armed Audio Warfare
(only a couple songs, actually #7 and 9)
jazz/noise. Zorn, Naked City
experimental sound. early Industrial, Nurse With Wound, Hafler Trio

And a ton other.

Oh and before I go, I have to recommend AUBE to you. Aube is one man
who uses a different sound source on every album. One of his latest
is called "Cardiac Strain" and he uses nothing but heartbeats for all
the sound. Fantastic!! other great albums are Wired Trap, Purification
to Numbness. check him out if you get the chance.

Bye and good luck with your noise adventure, and if you ever make some
send me a tape! and in the meantime you can read some reviews of noise
related stuff in my review zine (URL in sig). bye

--
Robb Cunningham 'THIS SENTENCE IS NOT TRUE'
isol...@geocities.com
http://www.smartlink.net/~iceolate (personal homepage)
http://www.smartlink.net/~iceolate/review.html (review page)

foe

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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Robb,

thanks for your article!

> 1. EFX. TONS of EFFECTS!!! distortion, delay, wah, whatever you
> can get.

I'm not sure. Just asking to the noise makers as i'm only noisy-loop
maker a la hafler trio and so on. Not japanoise that's why i'm asking.
Do you use guitar-like effects pedals or studio rack effects?

Dimitri

Paul Brousseau

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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Robb Cunningham (add...@in.sig) wrote:
: Nathan wrote:
: > It's unfortunate that my girlfriend hates it.

: don't they all.

Surprisingly... no.

--PBr

Paul Brousseau

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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foe (f...@dust.net) wrote:
: I'm not sure. Just asking to the noise makers as i'm only noisy-loop

: maker a la hafler trio and so on. Not japanoise that's why i'm asking.
: Do you use guitar-like effects pedals or studio rack effects?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, and I'm not expert, but to my
expirience it all depends on who's making the noise (and the size of
budget, of course...) When the post-industrial group Babyland does their
noise segments, it's rack gear and a keyboard. It's not terribly
psychadelic or pulsing, but fairly consistant chaos (EH?!?). Spastic Colon,
on the other hand, has a wood board with 5 or 6 stomp-pedals. (At least,
when I saw them awhile back.) I didn't investigate where the source was...
The result was a more dynamic sound. (This shouldn't be taken as a rule of
thumb, of course. It's all how you use your toys.)

--PBr

no msg

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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Paul Brousseau wrote:
It's all how you use your toys.)

amen.

i tend to stay away from fx pedals as i like the true sound of amp
decay/destruction. i use guitars, bases and microphones for the most part, but
i also use radios, police cb's, turntables ( ala e. beaulieau) and some other
equipment. when i go looking for stuff i try to buy the crappiest, most blown
out thing possible. i also try to buy bass amps instead of guitar ones as they
last alot longer under extreme abuse.

as for keyboards, i stay away from them, esp. the newer models. i do use one
keyboard, but it's horribly fucked up, as well as saturated with beer.

i actually saw an extremely interesting thing at practice the other night. john
olson, of american tapes/day lights saving time/universal indians etc., had this
booxbox, with no front face on it, and the wires were completely manipulated in
some way that it made the most facinating sounds. just a boombox going into a
amp. extremely diverse and real. john makes some fucking crazy instruments,
way better than anything solmania or masonna comes up with. (in my opinion).

however, noise isn't simply just RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA nonstop (though aube
would like you to think so sometimes). groups like prick decay (now Decaer
Pinga) use a multitude of found objects not relating to anything musical. their
work by far does more for me than any merzbow recording. doing the harsh thing
is fine, but it's gotten to the point where its beggining to run over itself.
the great artists are existing in their own realm. non-classifyable.

as for a subgenre of feedback, you'll find that it all depends. some people use
feedback almost exclusively (like a band i am in called New Port) some use none
(see the TUOB 7" on VERYGOOD). but within noise there is a heavy reliance on
feedback, which might not be all that great of a thing in the first place.

as for liking industrial for a long time, you MUST check out the "We Hate You"
compilation tribute 7" + cd to Throbbing Gristle just released sometime ago on
Jazzassin records. Tracks by Merzbow, Origami Replika, Aube, Bilge Pump, Mourn
Cloak, E. Chadbourne, KK Null, The Gerogerigegege, Inca Eyeball, Atrax Morgue,
Tranquil, Kapotte Muziek, Anus Presley and much more. worth your time and
money, as is everything else i've heard from the big J.

also, if you want the classic japanese noise stuff, write to Beast 666 in
Japon. Hitomi has some CLASSIC tapes still for sale of the boredoms,
hanatarashi, gerogerigegege, merzbow, g.g. allin, costes and much, MUCH more.
anyone interested email me privately.

there is MUCH out there. don't get tied up with labels on music, find what you
like.

just don't by records from Bloodlust! as you are supporting someones child
molestation habit.

matthew


--
"Know a classmate who uses hard drugs."

Bunnyman

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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In article <34fe7b6f...@news2.lightlink.com>,
nk...@lightlink.com (Nathan) wrote:

>>My real question is about the aesthetics of noise. What makes good
>>noise? It is _just_ intensity? How much pain it causes you when you
>>listen to it?

Interesting question. Tell you my story, last time when i was studing an
Art and Design course in hongkong, i asked my tutor why the works of Andy
Warhol is so popular. He told me that he can't tell me at that moment, when
i get enough knowledge then i will understand.
i think noise is like that. Just like you can't say why a painting is so
good but you know it is good. After i listen more and more noise, i know
what is good one.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
i am using Apple Macintosh.


Robb Cunningham

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Mar 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/4/98
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foe wrote:
>
> Robb,
>
> thanks for your article!
>
> > 1. EFX. TONS of EFFECTS!!! distortion, delay, wah, whatever you
> > can get.
>
> I'm not sure. Just asking to the noise makers as i'm only noisy-loop
> maker a la hafler trio and so on. Not japanoise that's why i'm asking.
> Do you use guitar-like effects pedals or studio rack effects?

actually efx aren't an absolute - the only absolute necessity in making
noise (or any music) is the inspiration. But, as far as tools go, I
think that a few efx and a mic are a great way for a newbie to get a few
sounds together without spending very much money.

But at the moment I am looking to buy pedals with lotsa knobs, mostly.
Analogue effects preferred.

Paul Brousseau

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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no msg (soni...@NOSPAMjuno.com) wrote:
: however, noise isn't simply just RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA nonstop (though aube

: would like you to think so sometimes).

Actually, Aube has some quite diverse stuff. Admittedly, my favorite stuff
of his (Cardiac Strain and Wired Trap) is RRRRAAAAAAAA, as you most
eloquently put it. However, there are several very subtle albums, such as
Aqua Syndrome, and some cut-up work, like the track on his split with
Knurl. Anyway, there are just more ways of doing noise...

--PBr

foe

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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pbr...@ute.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Brousseau) writes:

> I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, and I'm not expert, but to my
> expirience it all depends on who's making the noise (and the size of
> budget, of course...)

You have well understood what i was asking for! I like when you say he
sound is more dynamic with pedal effects. Pedal effects are for really
cheap in pawn shops. I'd like to investigate. I'll soonish.

Dimitri

foe

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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no msg <soni...@NOSPAMjuno.com> writes:

> however, noise isn't simply just RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA nonstop (though aube
> would like you to think so sometimes).

i totally disagree with you. I mean Aube is doing really diverse and
complex noise. A lot of different layers. Not at all the same kind of
noise that Masonna, Daniel Menche and Merzbow are doing. In mu
opinion, Aube is more seminal than Merzbow's newer stuff.

Dimitri

omro

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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Just a reminder: All females do not hate "noise"....i have been
listening/creating/thoroughly enjoying all the -ism's of experimental
music for over a decade, and i just happen to be a girlie. it is indeed
sad that most of the "fair sex" won't open their minds to good music (my
humble opinion), but i feel very comfortable with my compositions and
choices of artists for my personal listening pleasure. my significant
other and i work together on our projects, and we have certainly never
argued over music....
i have already posted some of the methods we use for composing our
stuff...but i have to express my joy at our new toys we just picked up:
Wire recorder (uses wire instead of tape), and a couple of very nice,
crunchy reel to reel recorders to add to our collection. it is
definitely time to look for a larger living space....

anyone here enjoy Hands To? i am very impressed with Jeph Jerman's
work...

phaedraejane

DEKATRIA

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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>1. the "brutality is everything" camp. These will value _just_
>intensity. The genre is usually referred to as "Japanese noise" or
>"Japanoise" or the more politically correct "power electronics."
>
>

"Japanoise" and Power-electronics are far from being the same thing! Completely
different genres.
I couldn't have been the only one to catch that???

23 Kuroneko 23

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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Bingo. Simplistik definition:

'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.

..@ least, that's wot I go by..

Kuroneko 23

Kevin J. O'Conner / Tinty Music

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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> > "Japanoise" and Power-electronics are far from being the same thing! Completely
> > different genres.
> > I couldn't have been the only one to catch that???
>
> Bingo. Simplistik definition:
>
> 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
> Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.

Sorry, but Boredoms are NOT noise.

--
Kevin J. O'Conner/Tinty Music
P.O. Box 85363, Seattle, WA 98145-1363 USA
tntm...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/tntmusic/welcome.htm

trop...@istar.ca

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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Kevin J. O'Conner / Tinty Music wrote:
>
> > > "Japanoise" and Power-electronics are far from being the same thing! Completely
> > > different genres.
> > > I couldn't have been the only one to catch that???
> >
> > Bingo. Simplistik definition:
> >
> > 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
> > Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.
>
> Sorry, but Boredoms are NOT noise.
>

True - they absolutley live up to their name.

Japanoise = Masonna, Incapacitants, Hijokaidan, Gov't Alpha, more recent Merzbow
(his earlier stuff is more academic/musique concrete/collage)

Power electronics = Whitehouse (who often aren't that powerful, alas), Mariah
Carey, and other intense-harsh-drone purveyors

trop...@istar.ca

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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foe wrote:
>
> no msg <soni...@NOSPAMjuno.com> writes:
>
> > however, noise isn't simply just RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA nonstop (though aube
> > would like you to think so sometimes).
>
> i totally disagree with you. I mean Aube is doing really diverse and
> complex noise. A lot of different layers.

Personally, I've never heard anything from Aube that matches that description.
"Purification to Numbness" would be the closest thing, but even that has a lot of
clearly-defined structure compared to the full-on Japanoisers.

> Not at all the same kind of

> noise that Masonna, Daniel Menche and Merzbow are doing. In my


> opinion, Aube is more seminal than Merzbow's newer stuff.

well, it varies. Both release far too much stuff, and have diluted their pool. Some of
Aube's work is really tedious, for ex.

Robb Cunningham

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Mar 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/5/98
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23 Kuroneko 23 wrote:
>
> DEKATRIA wrote:
> > >1. the "brutality is everything" camp. These will value _just_
> > >intensity. The genre is usually referred to as "Japanese noise" or
> > >"Japanoise" or the more politically correct "power electronics."
> > >
> > >
> >
> > "Japanoise" and Power-electronics are far from being the same thing! Completely
> > different genres.
> > I couldn't have been the only one to catch that???
>
> Bingo. Simplistik definition:
>
> 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
> Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.

what?? I have NEVER heard the boredoms referred to as "japanoise" or
"Japanese noise" (can we at least agree that THOSE are the same?).

I have seen Masonna, Merzbow, The Incapacitants, CCCC and etc. referred
to as Japanese noise as well as power electronics interchangeably many
times. please clarify your definitions (both posters)

Paul Brousseau

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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omro (pha...@execpc.com) wrote:
: Just a reminder: All females do not hate "noise"....i have been

Paul Brousseau

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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Paul Brousseau (pbr...@ute.CS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
: omro (pha...@execpc.com) wrote:
[Snip my quote of omro's entire post]

Doh! My fuck-up; didn't mean to post...

--PBr

AnthonyEID

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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"japanoise" rapid walls of harsh sound, from Japan.

"power electronics" droning analog noise with some one yelling over top of it.
Whitehouse, Death Squad, Intrinsic Action, Bloodyminded, Deathpile. Most of
these groups suck, or are simply whitehouse rip offs, boring. Tends to be
violent towards women (though I haven't heard any death squad that is.) Bastard
Noise is sometimes considered Power Electronics, because of things like Our
Earth's Blood.

The confusion between the two styles has to do with the media misusing the
terms. Relapse is very guilty of this. I have an interview with merzbow
somewhere where he says that he has nothing to do with power electronics.

Anthony

Colin Pascal

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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"Kevin J. O'Conner / Tinty Music" (tntm...@halcyon.com) writes:
>> 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.


> Sorry, but Boredoms are NOT noise.

True, but any uninformed media source that talks about the Boredoms drops
"Japanoise" like it was the hippest thing since Hypercolour. It's a silly
sounding term, IMHO, and It's a good way to spot reporters who don't quite
know what they're talking about.

Colin.
--
"So much noise in the world, so much sex, | Now playing:
so many amazing things, and nothing happens| Herbie Hancock-Dis Is Da Drum
that doesn't contradict itself in the | Seagull Screaming K.H.K.H.-Fly
happening, I think I will dance now."-GodCo| Lard-Last Temptation Of Reid

23 Kuroneko 23

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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Robb Cunningham wrote:
> >
> > Bingo. Simplistik definition:
> >
> > 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
> > Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.
>
> what?? I have NEVER heard the boredoms referred to as "japanoise" or
> "Japanese noise" (can we at least agree that THOSE are the same?).
>
> I have seen Masonna, Merzbow, The Incapacitants, CCCC and etc. referred
> to as Japanese noise as well as power electronics interchangeably many
> times. please clarify your definitions (both posters)
>
> --
> Robb Cunningham 'THIS SENTENCE IS NOT TRUE'
--

Now, this is how I think ov them as far as differences; yr own mileage
may vary. Power-elektroniks mainly utilises effekts in either a
painfully crushing way (i.e Merzbow, Masonna) or in a transcendent way
(CCCC, Incapacitants on a good day). 'Japanoise' is less focussed (the
collages ov Violent Onsengeisha, or Yamantaka Eye when he's not belching
his way thru a track). Cos, really, it's *all* Noize, but
Power-elektroniks seems to be more ov a surgikal strike.
Shrug. It's extremely focussed Easy-listening, how 'bout that?

23 Kuroneko

no msg

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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trop...@istar.ca wrote:

> foe wrote:
> >
> > no msg <soni...@NOSPAMjuno.com> writes:
> >
> > > however, noise isn't simply just RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA nonstop (though aube
> > > would like you to think so sometimes).
> >
> > i totally disagree with you. I mean Aube is doing really diverse and
> > complex noise. A lot of different layers.
>
> Personally, I've never heard anything from Aube that matches that description.
> "Purification to Numbness" would be the closest thing, but even that has a lot of
> clearly-defined structure compared to the full-on Japanoisers.

is that in response to me? you should all check out his first cassette then.
RRAAAAAAAA!!!anyway, yes, not all his stuff is like that, but it's all extremely tawdry and
ultra serious and boring.
perhaps he does have some good stuff (like the collaboration with Lasse Marhaug), but the
huge amounts of crap that he spews more than offset this.

> > Not at all the same kind of
> > noise that Masonna, Daniel Menche and Merzbow are doing. In my
> > opinion, Aube is more seminal than Merzbow's newer stuff.
>
> well, it varies. Both release far too much stuff, and have diluted their pool. Some of
> Aube's work is really tedious, for ex.

tedious and pointless. but yes, that is the jist of it. it's the idea that when you
begin just blindly taking your stuff and putting it out everywhere, you lose cred. and
poise. more aube than merz but i'm proud to say that i own nothing by merzbow, less proud
that i own stuff by aube.

The Hand

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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On Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:36:14 -0800, "Kevin J. O'Conner / Tinty Music"
<tntm...@halcyon.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>> > "Japanoise" and Power-electronics are far from being the same thing! Completely
>> > different genres.
>> > I couldn't have been the only one to catch that???
>>

>> Bingo. Simplistik definition:
>>
>> 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
>> Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.
>

>Sorry, but Boredoms are NOT noise.
>

I thought the Boredoms' style was called SCUM


e. jang

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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omro <pha...@execpc.com> wrote in article
<6dmpna$p...@newsops.execpc.com>...

> Just a reminder: All females do not hate "noise"...

Most definately true. Besides collaborating on various tracks of severity,
my better half has become quite the fan of "noise" over the past four years
(with the exception of Gero's masturbatory panting). All it takes is an
understanding.......................

gear: turntables (with or without the vinyl, get cheap ones at yard sales
for abusive purposes)
fans (dissect them, there's a million sounds in there)
wire/rubber bands (make your own damn guitar)
8-track player (with tapes to manipulate)
aluminum foil
glass/plastic bottles (make great wind instruments)
sheet metal/pipes/misc. (beat, scrape, scratch, etc.)
hand-held tape recorder
shortwave radio (jammed frequencies produce some of the best sounds
around)
cheap earphones (the kind that fit in your earlobes-plug them in
the mic jack for an inexpensive contact
mic-effect)
and most importantly inspiration............

e.jang


Gabriel Palczewski

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
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I've always looked at Power Electronics to be less-harsh noise
such as Namanax. Bands whose sounds go above ambient but are not spastic
and harsh like most noise releases. I view Japanoise as being a pretty
general term to mean any noise band from Japan. However, I have also used
it as a synonyme for harsh noise. The Japanese artists seem to be a lot
more harsh and spastic then their American counterparts. When I think of
Americanoise, I usually think of more surreal or tranch noise material.
There are very few American noise bands who go out there and just floor
you with their sound and whirlwind you with the stuff. They usually have
a more subtle approach and use elements of popular culture in the noise.
This isn't the rule, but it happens quite a bit. That's just me take on
it though.


DJ Flash Funk Gabe <azr...@grfn.org> - Napalm Jesus Member
The !NEW! Napalm Jesus Page - http://noiseweb.com/napalmjesus
Some Lovely Noise Links For You...
NoiseWeb - http://www.noiseweb.com (THE site for Noise on the WWW)
ABFALL - http://noiseweb.com/abfall (Brutal Noise from New Jersey)
Loud Cat - http://noiseweb.com/loudcat (Noise label from New Jersey)
Flutter - http://www.flutter.com (Excellent Noise band from Michigan)
"I'm not the show stopper, I'm the fucking show."
- Rob Van Dam

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, 23 Kuroneko 23 wrote:

> Robb Cunningham wrote:
> > >
> > > Bingo. Simplistik definition:
> > >
> > > 'Japanoise' - Boredoms.
> > > Power-elektroniks - Merzbow.
> >

Gabriel Palczewski

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
to no msg

I don't see where that description of Aube fits. His stuff is a
lot more complex than a lot of noise artists. If you get CARDIAC STRAIN
on Alien8 Recordings, it stands as a prime example. I'm not saying that
he doesn't have some less-than-amazing material out there, but he does
some great stuff as well. Aube is less of a noise artist to me so much as
a heavy mix of ambient and noise that is very structured. Some of his
releases are very compelling and I enjoy them. Especially CARDIAC STRAIN.
I don't think any noise artist produces crap as it is noise and not "fine
art". It's all based on personal taste. Some noise fans can't stand
Masonna but will sit through entire recordings of The Haters which have no
changes or anything. I personally do not enjoy The Haters but I would not
call their stuff "crap". It's expression through sound and who am I to
judge? Noise is all about breaking away from theories and structures for
the most part (at least conventional ones). Therefore I find it
impossible and rather silly to judge it when no one noise release follows
a theory that others do as well. Without a frame of reference, it is
impossible to judge.

Merzbow is another deal altogether. I try to get as much Merzbow
as possible for reasonable prices. However, I know well enough not to buy
3-4 Merzbow releases that came out around the same time. Why? He records
a load of stuff and then uses it to release and most of it is all from the
same session. If you space out a Merzbow collection, you get a much wider
range for what he has out there. It is impossible to geta ll the Merzbow
out there but almost all of it is worth checking out. I have yet to hear
a disappointing Merzbow release (for me at least). Most of the stuff he
puts out is much more original then some noise artists out there. It's
always been a general rule that if it's something Merzbow has done, then I
will certainly get my money's worth and not be personally disappointed. I
don't let that prevent me from buying unknown noise artists releases, but
I keep it in mind if I have a limited amount of money and have to make a
decision.

And juston the basic point of saturating the scene with releases.
It's probably a good thing. If you release a small amount of releases and
you are popular (Merzbow being probably THE most popular noise artist
around), then makig your product available is key. When Merzbow did
releases on Release, I thought it was a very smart thing as his stuff is
now much more readily available which is a good thing. I don't think
Masami or Akifumi expect people to buy all of their stuff, they are just
making enough of it available so it will be able to be picked up by as
many people as possible. The only draw back I see is when noise artists
fluxuate in putting out "good" or "bad" releases, then certain fans will
become tired of trying to do guess work on which things to buy.


DJ Flash Funk Gabe <azr...@grfn.org> - Napalm Jesus Member
The !NEW! Napalm Jesus Page - http://noiseweb.com/napalmjesus
Some Lovely Noise Links For You...
NoiseWeb - http://www.noiseweb.com (THE site for Noise on the WWW)
ABFALL - http://noiseweb.com/abfall (Brutal Noise from New Jersey)
Loud Cat - http://noiseweb.com/loudcat (Noise label from New Jersey)
Flutter - http://www.flutter.com (Excellent Noise band from Michigan)
"I'm not the show stopper, I'm the fucking show."
- Rob Van Dam

Rev. Matthew A. Carey

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
to

On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 16:05:18 -0800, Robb Cunningham <add...@in.sig>
wrote:

>Nathan wrote:
>>

(Some very good comments.)

A thing about noise is, it's all right there in the word. "Noise"
You can't make noise and then have someone say "That's not noise!"
The way kids used to do with punk. Noise is obvious, which eliminates
all the bullshit arguing about what fits into the genre. It leaves
the artists to try all sorts of things, and pretty much forget about
the artificial barriers that genre-consciousness can create.

Simple and unlimited. That's a beauty of noise. Not the only one, of
course.

Oh, my point in saying this is that asking about what gear you should
get seems like kind of a nonessential issue to me. Spend your money
on what you want to play with. I myself have never spent a single
cent on equipment. Unless you count old records and tapes from the
salvation army. Everything else I "borrowed," found in the garbage,
or had given to me by someone.

Not that this is the best way to do things. If you can afford some
equipment, then get it. But realize that the creative potential in
mere junk is pretty much infinite, and so is the fun.

This is directed at no one, mind you.

So, like, uh, send me tapes.

carey
po box 594
arcata, ca 95518


========================================
Sacramento SubGenius Devival!:
http://emrl.com/~jetrock/devival.html
==========================
noise obscure experimental
carey.matthew.a <http://www.humboldt1.com/~carey/>
orbital art colony weird text files
===================================

Chris Sienko

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Mar 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/6/98
to

Gabriel Palczewski wrote:
>
> I don't see where that description of Aube fits. His stuff is a
> lot more complex than a lot of noise artists. If you get CARDIAC STRAIN
> on Alien8 Recordings, it stands as a prime example. I'm not saying that
> he doesn't have some less-than-amazing material out there, but he does
> some great stuff as well. Aube is less of a noise artist to me so much as
> a heavy mix of ambient and noise that is very structured. Some of his
> releases are very compelling and I enjoy them. Especially CARDIAC STRAIN.

This is not meant to bash you, Gabe, or anyone else anywhere, but
there's been a lot of talk lately about Aube/Nakajima and how
"scturctured" and "artistic" and "conceptual" his work is. Now, I'll
admit to having quite a few Aube releases in my collection -- after
hearing a few, I snapped up quite a few more, but after a while, it hit
me. Some of the textures he coaxes out of source materials -- the
abovementioned heartbeat being a good example -- are pretty amazing and
unearthly, (a favoriate quote from a friend of mine about Aube was: "if
I had florescent lamps that sounded like that, I'd never get any work
done.") but I really have to take umbrage to Aube being "structured", or
overly structured.
In comparison to his wall of noise contemporaries, "one take and it's
on tape" sorts, yeah, he seems almost like classical music. But, after a
few releases, you start to notice that he keeps using the same
"structure" again and again; take a source sound, loop it. Take another
source sound, preferably of a different texture and rhythm, loop it;
take something really heavy and unwieldy, loop it; etc. Then it all
comes to a boil and stops all at once. Whew; interesting at first, but
then you start to realize, wait, I've heard this style of composing
before; it's called mid-80s techno!
Admittedly, the sounds are little more extreme, but Patrick Marley's
description of Aube's work as "betraying its Kraftwerk obsessions"
struck it right on the head. Not to come off all pseudo-academic or
anything (too late, I'm sure), but comparing supposedly "rigorously
constructed" compositions like _Aqua Syndrome_ with a work like Tod
Dockstader's _Water Music_, from 1963, using only reel to reel tapes and
one or two track recorders. Similarly, compare much of the so-called
"Avant garde techno" coming out of Warp and Rephlex with Morton
Subotnick's _Silver Apples of the Moon_ or _The Wild Bull_. The
difference is clear; some people have an ear for composition, some
don't.
I'm not at all implying that what noise needs is more composers; quite
the opposite. Noise isn't necessarily about structure (though I suppose
it CAN be about anything), but sometimes I wish Nakajima would pick a
side of the fence and stick with it, or rather, not come off like his
"structured noise" is the most innovative thing since the contact mic.
If you're going to be a "composer" and layer and structure your stuff,
don't do it like you would a techno song, and for god's sake, don't do
it like that for 25 releases in a row! 2 or 3 is good enough (see
previous posts by others about oversaturation). Just another opinion,
accept or reject if you wish, but remember, critiquing the size of my
genitals is just not sportsmanly...

> I don't think any noise artist produces crap as it is noise and not "fine
> art". It's all based on personal taste. Some noise fans can't stand
> Masonna but will sit through entire recordings of The Haters which have no
> changes or anything. I personally do not enjoy The Haters but I would not
> call their stuff "crap". It's expression through sound and who am I to
> judge? Noise is all about breaking away from theories and structures for
> the most part (at least conventional ones). Therefore I find it
> impossible and rather silly to judge it when no one noise release follows
> a theory that others do as well. Without a frame of reference, it is
> impossible to judge.

Let's not bicker and argue about whose noise is harshest...

'til later,
Chris

--
Christopher Sienko
"People who say that all they listen to is harsh noise either have
something wrong with them, or they aren't telling the truth." - Matt
Bacon
co...@saginawcvb.org
http://www.saginawcvb.org

Message has been deleted

Metin Yerlicaya

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Mar 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/9/98
to

> matthew


To stop this discussion between both ...MErzbow and Aube are both prolific
enough ....just Aubes style seems to me aswell that he uses his brain more
than Merzbow ..Isnt it true that Masami just said He mostly improvises
by the feeling . Aube is cleverly building his tracks minute by minute
and they are gorgeously layered stuff , i couldnt believe it when i
listen to CArdiac Strain how he alters the sound ...so rich ..so many
possibiliites in sound editing . He can do much with a single sound ,
You cant find this in Merzbow ...as far as i listened until now .


Metin

--
Metin


VVaveshape

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Mar 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/17/98
to

I'm just going to say this once. Follow all the advice given about making noise
up to this point, and most of all:

Go to radio shack and get "Getting Started in Electronics".

You'll never regret it once you're modifying toys into wonderful noisemaking
devices that people will never be able to recognize =)
---
ryan reid vvave...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/vvaveshape
"your music has nothing cool about it" - Tommy T

foxcalc

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Nov 27, 2015, 6:45:02 AM11/27/15
to
Cloaca live at San Antonio Harsh Noise & Power Electronics Fest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ2zRaN9JFk
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